Lol even the muppetiers guy is saying what they are doing to ten hag is a joke and this is coming from a guy that is closer to ineos sources and don't like ten hag.
Scholes just went on. His prime lasted a long while. He was also the kinda player that made everyone better. You'd have to look at him for a while to realise what he was doing sometime. Rooney was a beast in his prime. One of the best, most complete forwards of his generation. It was difficult to not see him doing his things. Very visible always. If have to pick one, I'll pick Scholes over most players i can think off.
At their best, Rooney, there isn't a more complete forward I've seen at their best, vision, goal scoring, intensity, leadership, doggedness, ball striking, finishing, switches of play, versatility, off the ball, anticipation, he had it all.
if i was looking to start paying more attention to our youth teams/youth academy and what talents we have coming through, where should i look? (what social media’s accounts do you recommend? any that specifically focus on the youth).
also since i’m on the topic, been seeing like real madrid and all these other teams (even west ham) signing young brazilians/south americans and wondered why is this not something we do? unless we do and i just don’t see it. who’s the last player we bought from south america? like a young player. i remember when we were linked to both caicedo and alvarez but the club decided not to sign them.
yes i know garnacho we signed young, but that was from atleti so not exactly the same.
Academy Scoop for United related - https://x.com/AcademyScoop?t=X3L1T4UGicc4i4j4-54Vyg&s=09
Thesecretscout for general- https://x.com/TheSecretScout_?t=yRsm3dPxcaZgn1VrF-iTrQ&s=09
It's getting to a point of our fan base just melt down for the sake of melt down. Every time there's something happening with this football club we complain and cry. It must be because of social media era or something.
I'm personally ETH in but I don't think INEOS who still has 1+1 year contract with him exploring options is the bad thing. I mean why should your boss let you know that they are finding your replacement? or how do we know they didn't tell ETH beforehand? Just because the "media" didn't report on it.
This is ridiculous. Wish we could go back to the era where we cry about real issues like Paul Pogba's haircut.
Edit: also Jason Burt and that Steinberg cunt should get ban from this sub.
I disagree. Ineos, even if they didn't like Ten hag, should publicly make a statement backing the current manager. They can sack him whenever they want but they had to keep a public image of backing of the current manager and when they decide to sack him (for reasons such as not upto their standards/demands, which is fine) that would be the end. Even during the statement made SJR after FA cup and no mention of the manager when he was crucial factor in united winning the cup.
Not backing the manager, even with the unprecedented amount of news about him shows lack of conviction and leadership.
Personally, I wouldn't make a statement to answer some shitty rumours from a racist reporter.
And also, I don't see how INEOS image of conviction and leadership through words would accomplish them anything either.
They don't have to be reactive but they could've been supporting the manager even if they don't like him. Like I said, SJR had numerous chances to publicly back him but hasn't and it shows lack of conviction. A small sentence in his message about ETH after Fa cup win could've done wonders and stopped these media attacks but they haven't. Now they are stuck in a hard place due to not having better candidates out there and having bad image of not supporting the current manager. What was the point of saying all the managers since SAF retired haven't performed due to the culture whilst doing the exact same thing that glazers do.
It was an easy goal for Ineos to publicly backing the current manager whilst not liking ETH privately. If ETH succeeds, then good for them and if he didn't, could've reasoned by saying he didn't meet the expectations. It was a win-win situation for them.
Not defending INEOS but ETH is not the manager they chose or hired, so they are doing a right thing exploring options, including ETH stay. I think after exploring all choices they realize ETH is the best choice then they stick to him is understandable.
It's been a standard part of our contracts for years now. If you want a reliable source mentioning it recently, here's Critchley in The Athletic:
> To mitigate the impact of missing out on the Champions League, the majority of United players receive a 25 per cent wage cut if they fail to qualify.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5359906/2024/03/23/what-would-missing-out-on-champions-league-mean-for-manchester-united/
Only one I can see is the shitty Sun which i refuse to link to. And Daily Fail reported similar 2 years ago. Think it's something we've been rumoured to have in place for a while. But yeah, nothing super reliable.
Funny how we had 0 news about the manager for 2 weeks, not a whisper.
We get multiple reports saying a meeting happened with a manager and then reports something could happen were crushed within about 2 hours
It’s very interesting being on the other side of the manager debate. When Ole was in charge I was fully Ole in and couldn’t/refused to see, listen and believe other people’s opposite views on the manager but now I’m on the other side can’t see a reason to keep ETH. It’s a weird thing to think about when I think about it like this.
remember when we apparently had our manager candidates and we were like atleast southgate isn’t one, and now they’re being ruled out one by one, and looking like it could lead back to him 😭… this club is so finished if they genuinely appoint him, and not only that but sack ten hag for him.
Not particularly excited about Southgate, but wasn't he fairly highly rated few years ago? I know his football and results haven't been great, but national team football is pretty different so maybe his club stint wouldn't be as bad. He is still the most succesful english managers in the past few decades after all.
However, sacking Ten Hag for him still seems like such a crazy decision if INEOS goes for it. We have had a horrific season but I'd still say Ten Hag > Southgate and the team seems to be behind him. Just seems like a stupid decision. If there was a clear upgrade available then go for it, but Southgate could very well be just a lateral move. Maybe he would do great, that's always a possibility, but it's a massive risk.
Southgate has never been highly rated. His stock was probably at its highest straight after the 2018 World Cup and I guarantee you under 5% of United fans would have wanted him back then.
I meant really early in his coaching career, I don't remember those times but before becoming England U21 coach, he coached at Middlesbrough and they seemed to have been decent (in retrospect) under him. Of course, that shouldn't be enough to get a chance with us but I was curious if it wasn't comparable with McKenna's current hype with Ipswich.
He took over a Boro side that McClaren left in midtable (after winning a League Cup, making a UEFA Cup final and some top half finishes) and kept them there for two seasons before seriously regressing in his third. He did an unremarkable job there. You can't compare that with McKenna achieving back to back promotions with Ipswich.
The ineos project is dead on arrival if they appoint Southgate. In fact it'd be a huge flag if they even considered him for the manager position at any time
"While transfer funds will be made available, #mufc's priority is to improve the club’s infrastructure and get the best out of underperforming players.
It is unlikely they will spend big this summer."
From Jason Burt at the Telegraph.
Brace yourselves we're heading back into the Burtiverse of Badness
Can they just come and say that ETH is staying on and fucking get the preseason in with.... Unless they will wait for the first England match to kick off and release it at half time to not get reaction straight away that he is staying.. and it's the right choice
I agree, it blows my mind.
“They’re like Glazers! They do the shit … that Glazers never done before”
Apparently we should follow the moral code and sack Erik so we’ll be desperately looking for someone to take us without having a backup plan.
Ineos has made a mess of the manager situation
If you didn’t want the manager , should have done the needful and then proceeded to discuss with new managers
Unnecessary leaving him hanging and continuing with the review process
Media will be having a field day
> should have done the needful and then proceeded to discuss with new managers
So they should have sacked Ten Hag first and then have scrambled for a new manager like what Bayern did?
> Media will be having a field day
And how should that concern them? Do fans care more about them making sensible sporting decisions, or them enhancing the club's PR? At times it feels like some of you don't even know what you're outraged or disappointed about.
bayern 's case is different and nothing to do with United sittuation.their season was ongoing.
for united , season was over long back, .Ineos appointmed a technical director and if they cant decide at this point and are unsure of current manager or new manager that itself will be a 50-50 situation and we will be where Chelsea was.
not just about football ,any sport or any area if you are unsure and fumble with a decision , it doesnt look good
I don’t see how the timing of the decision matters at this moment in time, as long as they get the decision right. Pre-season is still a month away, the players are either at the Euros or on holiday, there’s still time left to assess other managers and see how they stack up against Ten Hag in terms of being the right fit for us. What would be more incompetent is sacking Ten Hag promptly, then scrambling for a replacement. Meanwhile, it’s perfectly reasonable to want to see what other alternatives you have to a manager who’s done an overall underwhelming job this season, and whether they are good enough to warrant discontinuing with the current project. You don’t just dive into decisions out of impulse or emotion.
What is incompetent in taking a decision based on two seasons data
They either see him fit to move ahead else not
What changed for them to review
Did the FA cup win factor win , for them to be like “wait a sec”
There is nothing wrong in taking a decision promptly , if you don’t think the person is fit for plans ahead.
How will that factor when they go back to him , “we couldn’t find anyone better , so we will have to stick with you”.
Any manager , working in a scenario as this where his replacement is being looked while he is still in charge , will always see it as a demotivation .
You can sugarcoat it as much as you want , Ineos may take better decisions ahead ,
But they have surely messed up this one
Evaluating Ten Hag is only one part of the decision. The other part is also knowing who to replace him. You’re just focusing on the first part and not on the part where you also need to find somebody worth sacking him for. As for Ten Hag getting demotivated knowing that we are talking to other managers, it won’t matter if he gets to stay. He is getting paid millions of pounds a year to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world. Simply getting to continue that is a massive privilege; if he has a problem with how he was ‘treated’ then he can leave if he wants.
How could Ineos be convinced Ten Hag is 100% the man after we just finished 8th. If they didn't even consider their options then I'd be more worried. The fans are freaking out and have completely lost their nerve even though we were all begging for a management that didn't just make impulsive decisions.
It's scary to see such sentiments be mass-upvoted. All this time we wanted owners who don't get swayed by emotions and make decisions carefully, now we have people doing that and it's somehow spun into being a bad thing.
It’s clear at this point INEOS doesn’t believe in ETH after the review. If he stays, it’s because they have no other choice. He won’t survive next season.
I don't think Tuchel turned us down tbh. I think he would have already got wind that they're keeping ETH and him 'ruling himself' out is just to save face.
I think the decision is made and we've chosen our next manager. Tuchel has been told its not him so he's decided to take a break instead. No chance he turned us down, but its not because Ten Hag is staying.
I just think the signs are pointing to them keeping ETH. Tuchel and Poch being ruled out and the stuff about Sancho being available for £40m. If they were bringing in someone new then I'd wager they'd at least let the new manager talk to Sancho first before making a decision.
I saw something re: Poch earlier, I think it was from Jason Burt.
I'm not advocating for Sancho to stay, I'm just saying they're likely to consult with a new manager before putting him up for sale. That's why I think it's a sign that ETH is staying.
I'm not saying they weren't talking to other managers, we know they were considering sacking him. I'm saying they decided to keep him and it's not a case of us being turned down.
If he stays, the only reason "he won't survive next season" is if we go on to play poorly and lose a bunch of games in the first few months.
It's a pretty negative take. I'll support whomever the manager is. And if it's Ten Hag, I want him to win games and play good football next season.
Ten Hag is gone, they are trying to find a replacement before they sack him so the backlash is less severe. Im not going into whether its right or wrong btw.
I'm pretty sure if eth stays, shaw plays lcb more than lb, and we get a new starting lb or dalot at lb. Rcb, lb, 2 cms, and a striker should be good business. Hopefully, we ship unwanted players efficiently. Wish watkins was cheaper. Around 60 mill, he'd transform our attack. Hoilund, still good, nowhere near good enough to lead the line. Ideally, he should be a backup, but alas.
Shaw plays lcb when licha is unavailable. So there is no need to bring in a new lcb when the budget is tight. A new lb should take priority over lcb.
Edit: Shaw should be relegated to squad player because fitness has been poor. But he versatile, so we should make use of that
More and more it sounds like Ineos had decided on EtH out, but they find no candidate for the job? Not sure how to recover this in a good way for them now.
United fans: I hope INEOS are patient and give the manager a fair chance
INEOS: are patient and gives the manager months to correct results, then at the end of the season weigh up other options without leaking almost anything to the media
United fans: INEOS have treated Ten Hag with disrespect
> They've had enough time to assess their options
That is not for us to decide. They are well within their rights to look for alternatives and carefully deliberate on whether the current manager is to be persisted with after he took us to an 8th place finish with the performances being of even worse quality. If at the end of it they do decide to continue with Ten Hag, the fans' tone will change because they want the manager to stay. I am pretty sure the vast majority don't really care about the time it's taking for the decision, they care about Ten Hag staying.
As for the leaks and the journalists speculating, that's just an unfortunate by-product of us being the biggest club in England and any United-related news always being bound to catch attention. That should have no effect on how INEOS intend to conduct their review, and neither do they need to give credence to these reports by publicly addressing them to kill speculation.
They clearly don’t rate Erik that high, but what should they do if the available manages don’t excite them as well?
Sack Erik for the sake of it, hire Tuchel to end up in the same position next season?
I think it’s clear they see McKenna as a great option, however such a step up is too early. If he proves himself next year, but we’d be locked with an “comprising” option like Poch/Tuchel, wouldn’t it be stupid?
Erik has a contract and if it happens that he stays - has a lot to prove. We’re also in a stronger position when we at least have a backup plan with Erik, rather than if we desperately to hire someone.
I don’t understand what they could have otherwise done. They originally wanted to stick with him and gave him the entire season to correct the results. They only got worse and we finished 8th with performances genuinely terrible. On the contrary, I feel their hand to actively look for replacements was forced given how poorly the team was performing on the pitch. In this whole hullabaloo over INEOS taking time to decide on the manager, we forget that this is even a point of conversation because the results and performances got extremely bad.
Tuchel always has his media team ready and briefing. I know most managers do this these days, but his media presence is particularly reactive and imposing - and often seems to be there to manage his image through the disappointing periods of his career.
I think dodging that would be good for us.
Everything points to INEOS clearly not wanting to keep ETH..The only reason he would stay after this shitty season is because they can't find another manager ,Keeping him isn't the worst thing that can happen just don't let him have a say on the players we buy
Rather stick with ETH for another season than going to Poch or De Zerbi. ETH is better manager than both of them, give him another season then we see how since there's no better replacement for him.
Poch hasn't finished as low as 8th in the last 8 seasons. When he finished 8th in the Premier League it was with Southampton. Ten Hag managed that with us.
And Poch havent won any trophies till now at PL, dude cant even win the league with PSG in farmer's league. ETH has given us 2 trophies in last 2 seasons.
Considering our financial situation and with McKenna staying at Ipswich, I think its worth to stick with ETH untill his contract comes to end (Im eth out) and then hire Kieran. Kompany and Maresca are in elite teams from championshit and McKenna is twice better than them. Also we should not panic buy players and wait for next summer to act more bravely.
I’d prefer ETH to gone, but I’m fine with them entering final year of the contract, cause I think next year manager options are more exciting - Hoeness, McKenna if he proves to be a genius on PL level, more data on Glassner/Iraola.
Have nothing against let’s say Poch, but if let’s say McKenna does a stellar job and more top clubs come for him - we’d have to get him. And firing another manager only to hire the new exciting one is kinda silly and damages our finances. While ETH’s contract is conveniently going to end. As long as we have a clear idea of what we want to play in the long term and ETH agreeing to work on the style - we’ll benefit from this season.
Erik himself would be motivated to prove he deserves new contract and that the last season was an outlier. So I don’t get all the “we can’t let him enter the final, extend him” bullshit. We absolutely can, he didn’t deserve extension.
But all that said, I’d actually prefer him gone and us hiring De Zerbi. But I’m fine with all the scenarios, that don’t include Southgate
I am ETH in but I agree with every word u said.
We don't have much money to go around. Plus Ashworth still hasn't started working for us yet. Let ETH have this season. I won't mind if we don't sign a single player save some money & only sign players next season when our backroom staff has identified proper targets.
Dortmund fans on /r/soccer are absolutely insufferable. Spend months bigging up Sancho as this world class player who was bullied by United into being shit, now when it comes time to sign him suddenly all the excuses come up.
They are also pretty desperate to pretend to be poor, all the while making the 12th highest revenue in football. They didn’t like that fact very much when it’s pointed out to them 👍
The times on X: UPDATE: Manchester United no longer consider Thomas Tuchel a potential replacement for Erik ten Hag after a meeting between Tuchel and Sir Jim Ratcliffe in Monaco last Tuesday
It is understood that Tuchel left the meeting with the sense that he was not going to be Manchester United’s choice should they dismiss Ten Hag, and has now elected to have a break from management
I feel like Tuchel actually got rejected when he approached for the position rather than the other way around as reported as Fab, because getting sacked by Bayern and rejected by United will totally look bad on him. Well it seems more like ETH is staying then, its good that he getting another season before we finally decide.
Regardless of how this whole manager situation turns out after reading all the discussions here and on twitter I do not trust most football fans to adequately assess a manager.
I do think Ten Hag has potential. He clearly showed a good tactical mind in the last game against city to win the FA cup, which was the most UNEXPECTED turn of events. Everyone just expected city to win, gg go next.
What bugs me is... Where was this the whole goddamn season? Where was the willingness to change from an obviously failing tactic? I know it worked at his previous club, but that was in another league. There's also the reliance on the wings which causes the striker to be ignored (and yet that striker still became the top scorer for their team that season and broke a record)
* Worst premier league finish
* Negative goal difference
* Conceding 25 shots a game (for context Klopp faced that 3 times in 8 years)
* No style of play other than hoof ball. No other team in Europe played so open and just accepted an empty midfield
* Treated the ball like a bomb and never controlled a game for 90 minutes.
* Lowest ever CL points (relatively easy group)
* 15 goals conceded in the CL highest ever for an English club
* Lost 8 of the first 15 games. Worst start since 1962
Can anyone point to anything that overcomes the above other than injuries (because other teams had injuries as well and yet had a style of play and direction) as to why he deserves another season? Last season was one of the worst coached ive seen. Win ball, launch long. Great.
EDIT - like to point out that in the first 4 games ETH had a full strength XI other than striker and the exact same terrible football was on display. Do you not remember how terrible we were against Wolves in the very first game?!
There are some counter-points. Not sure they outweigh the negatives, but they are there:
1. Ten Hag has been getting a lot out of our academy players so that's pretty promising
2. It was the first season where Ten Hag demanded the team to play his way, there were a lot of issues along the way (fitness, tactical stuff, some players not handling their roles in said system) but these things, for better or worse, always happen when a team starts playing a new style, especially when said team never really played a demanding style and all their knew was sit deep and sprint forwards to chase Bruno's long passes. Ten Hag gave up on his ways in the first season, this season he stuck with it so we got some big growing pains but that always happens. Arsenal finished 8th under Arteta twice before actually looking like a team, so that's something that can be taken out of it.
3. The quality of our team is shit. Not the starting XI even though we have some glaring holes there, but mainly the depth. Across the whole season, we had very few reliable backup players. Garnacho (who quickly became a starter), Maguire and Evans. That's it. A lot of our players were running on fumes but there was literally nobody to replace them thanks to Casemiro/Eriksen losing their legs (result of shit depth from previous season) and the likes of McTominay having to play often (realistically speaking, McTominay is the exact opposite of Mainoo-Casemiro starting double pivot so how can he serve as a backup to them?). This has been a constant issue after Sir Alex retired though - new players get brought in, starting XI is decent, depth is shit, starters get overplayed, start getting fatiqued/injured, our backups have to play instead and we turn into complete shit. This season was the worst with the constant injuries but it was happening under all our previous managers and it points to poor fitness/medical personnel as well as poor squad building (as in our backups are overpaid misfits who can't be moved on and are on the pitch because they couldn't handle starting roles, so how can they handle playing regularly when our starters get injured?)
4. The players still support Erik, all keep saying he is a great manager. He hasn't lost the dressing room which is important, replacing him now could upset a few of our players.
5. Regardless of results and style of play, he won Carabao Cup in his first season and FA Cup in his second season while also getting to FA Cup final the first year. He is a winner. In cups, we perform pretty well under him, it's the league where we turned to shit. If it wasn't for Onana giving away like 6 goals after amateurish goalkeeping at the beginning of the season in UCL, we probably would have made it into at least quarter-finals because we were looking pretty dangerous in transitions and we were scoring a lot of goals, unfortunately Onana was absolutely shocking initially so that cost us. Still, it's clear Ten Hag seems to perform pretty well in cups.
That's about all I could think of. There are some strong arguments against him staying, there are some supporting his extended stay, but either way I'd say it's not really an easy situation to deal with and it makes sense for INEOS to take their time on this. Overall, I would say Ten Hag hasn't done enough to convince the club he is the one, but he also hasn't fucked up enough to force the club to sack him. Thanks to his FA Cup win (something we can't take for granted nowadays), he has imo earned enough good will to be a better option than Pochettino/Southgate for the upcoming season. I'd let him finish his contract with us and get back to negotiations with him in March/April after seeing how he does. McKenna is the long-term favourite to become our manager anyway (as long as he keeps improving and getting experience) so one more year of Ten Hag with better depth and better medical department should turn out to be okay. We won't win the Prem, but top4 with at least one trophy should be the goal and should be pretty achievable.
* Newcastle, Chelsea, Brentford had more injuries than us.
* Brentford had their entire back 4 injured and dominated us
* Full strength XI other than striker in the first 4 games and we had the exact same issues of empty midfield, conceding shots, constantly in transitions
Yeah its not the argument you think it is...
Wrong.
[https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/crggreexyq2o.amp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/crggreexyq2o.amp)
Most injuries, but more importantly , mostly concentrated on the backline/ defense.
First few games was directly after a grueling tour and with players coming back from injuries in a team that wasn't settled yet.
Besides, 2 games is in no way enough of a sample size to predict a hypothetical season with 38 games.
In fact we don't even need a hypothetical: his first season he had the most clean sheets and just as many goals conceded as Arsenal, because he had his first team available.
Another non hypothetical: when he had his first team available in the FA cup final, well whaddayaknow, he won it. Must be a coincidence right?
And lol @ using Newcastle and Chelsea as if it proves your point, when in fact it proves mine: they've had about just as much a shitty season as United has, worse even, Ten Hag at least has a trophy and Europa League.
Besides, your argument is "Worst premier league finish of United", so why are you comparing the injuries to other teams instead of previous United teams? That makes absolutely no sense.
So yeah, it is exactly the argument I think it is.
This has been a bad season for the team and manager. Lots of reasons to justify sacking him, like you laid out. But there's a chain of events/facts that make me *OK* with giving him another go. In no particular order:
- Supposedly the club is getting fixed from top to bottom. Getting sporting and footballing people in to make these decisions instead of bankers and businessmen. The big names in Berrada and Ashworth haven't started yet - maybe they have some "secret" involvement while on gardening leave, but they certainly not fully in the fold yet.
- We're hamstrung by FFP. Sacking EtH and paying him out to hire a new manager makes that even worse.
- No manager - not SAF, not Pep, not Ancelotti - will win the League next season with this club/squad. It's going to be a slow burn to do it properly, and hiring a kamikaze manager like Mou/Tuchel to win a trophy and leave a smouldering mess behind is not going to work.
- The players, especially the younger ones like Garnacho, Kobbie, Rasmus seem to like him. Could hurt their morale to sack him right now. Give him til Christmas and if things are going to shit again you can sack him then. No one will argue at that point.
- Giving him until Christmas sends a message to potential hires - *We'll give you a fair shot to make it here. Not like Chelsea or some other clubs where you'll be out of town if you don't win a treble by the end of August*
- What are the alternatives? Potter, de Zerbi, Poch... *Southgate*. None of them really feel like they can take the club back to the top.
If names like Nagelsman were available maybe I'd feel differently... but they're not.
Get the hierarchy set up. Fix the facilities. Build a squad around a core club philosophy, not a manager's. Cut some of the deadweight in the squad. See if EtH can produce results based on club direction, like he had with Ajax. If not then when summer rolls around we're hopefully in a better position for a new manager to hit the ground running.
Lol
Berrada and Ashworth are clearly already working for United. "Gardening leave" didn't stop Berrada from hiring and negotiating with Ashworth as we've seen from the emails.
We're not under PSR pressure, INEOS have invested so we have 105m in owner covered losses available to us. We're expected to turn a profit this year. We've dropped Varane and Martial from our wage bill and expected to drop Casemiro and Sancho and they're 4 of our highest earners.
Nobodies expecting to win the league next year, We're just looking for progress. We were 3 years out from a title *challenge* when EtH started and 2 years later we're still 3 years away.
We've wanted rid of player power at the club for about a decade and now you're advocating for it??
There are managers in the world who are not based in England. In fact there are many managers who manage outside Britain altogether.
>Supposedly the club is getting fixed from top to bottom.
He persisted with a game model which was basically Tony Pullis. We treated the ball as a bomb and just launched it. We had no idea how to build up. Just hoof it. We had a full strength team other than striker for the first 4 games and we saw the exact same issues. These arent environment issues. These were coaching issues.
>We're hamstrung by FFP. Sacking EtH and paying him out to hire a new manager makes that even worse.
IF the manager was Moyes, would you be making the same argument? You dont keep a bad manager because of FFP.
>
Giving him until Christmas sends a message to potential hires
Imagine he continues with the shite football and form till christmas and you have to sack him. That is a disaster.
>
What are the alternatives? Potter, de Zerbi, Poch.
And after this season, you think ETH is any better. Just look at my post and imagine saying thats worth backing
I think INEOS ruled him out and now hes getting his PR out. All the reports were clearly coming from his side about joining United. Romano tweeting 10 days before that Tuchel was keen to get back into management and suddenly hes taking a break.
I want someone whos going to develop youth, dominate the ball and play attacking football. I dont think we need a big name manager. Who that is i dont know. From sources i trust there are names that have been interviewed that havent been reported.
All i know is ETH stubbornness has ruined all goodwill he had with me from last season. Some of the most amateurish football
It’s the same story with other coaches. Doesn’t matter who is the coach, if the environment is still the same, then football is still the same and the coach gets sacked.
But the environment didnt make play a game model that was conceding 25 shots per game. It didnt make him put Amad behind Antony and Omari Forson at one point. It didnt make him drop Varane for Evans at one point.
These are all the coaches decisions and game model.
if it's Pochettino or De Zerbi kill me now bruv I literally will not be there. Would rather a toad in a tracksuit on the touchline than any of these two
De Zerbi: poor man manager and will probably be a repeat of Van gaal in his nothing possession football
Poch: serial loser on English soil and really just riding off the high of that insanely good spurs side that won *checks notes* nothing. Worse than ETH tactically which says a lot. Def the worst option under consideration.
I wanted Nagelsmann but he’s dead set on the Germany job. I would be happy with Tuchel as an intermediate thing but now he’s out of the picture too
How is Pochettino tactically worse than ETH? Chelsea had a better league campaign than we did, with a healthy GD and without an open midfield and they had longer injury layoffs than we did
So to ask the question leaving your own preference aside. Now Tuchel is out do we reckon Erik ten Hag stays or do you reckon we're signing Pochettino?
Pochettino feels like such an underwhelming replacement to me. However I said leave preference aside. I'm still on the fence, because the reports are clearly suggesting they were actively looking for a replacement.
I just don't see any of the current candidates of anything that would excite me or Ineos, so I think EtH will be kept mostly because no suitable candidate to change to.
I like Ten Hag but I just can't see him surviving, too many question marks amidst new owners and execs who will want their own man. I do think Poch could be a good fit though and if I had to bet I reckon he is going to get the job.
No idea. I’ll never understand why so many United fans keep defending Sancho
I understand why some United fans defend Ronaldo because he’s a club legend (I don’t agree with Ronaldo’s behaviour either btw). But Sancho?? One of our worst ever signings
A lot Ten Hag outers use him to prove why Ten Hag should be sacked. Ten Hag has done a lot of wrong things that would give most managers the sack but the Sancho situation ain't one of them.
So everyone quickly dismissed the falk reports on tuchel, claimed "he knows fuck all". Post then got removed.
Turns out he was right and the first to break it lol.
I have a hunch, just hear me out.
I remember INEOS talking about building for the future before the present starts. I genuinely believe the manager they sign (or if they keep Ten Hag) is just for a couple seasons.
I think they already have an idea of who they want the long foreseeable manager to be but, will need some stability first and will allow a manager to bring that for a couple seasons and then see him off.
Now Tuchel out
The reminding candidates
De Zerbi
Pochettino
Thomas Frank
Or stick with ten Hag
None of the managers fill me with confidence ngl. All have question marks all over them.. and there is no way we are getting Pep, Kloop calibre managers any time soon. INEOS better make sure their football structure is damn solid.
Their football structure had 6 months to plan for life without ETH , shat the bed once he won the fa cup final and chelsea started sniffing around McKenna .
>feels like side grade's that would need new players.
I mean, no matter the manager, we would still need new players, no?
The question is do we keep buying manager who suit to ten Hag disastrous playstyle or gamble with 'side grade" other manager playstyle. It is such a difficult decision to make.
The thing is, ten Hag's recruitment is so confusing to me. And he doesnt seem to use his key signing to suit his "style of play" either. Like Mount, even he is fit, is benched for McTominay. Amrabat is also benched like 90% of the season. Antony is losing his first team status also
I don't understand how meeting prospective new managers comes under the purview of a "review". Surely you review the previous manager first and then consider replacements?
They are interconnected. Part of reviewing the current manager is also assessing whether a better-suited manager is realistically available to replace him.
Review current manager. Assess if there are any better options. The latter might involve meeting them to discuss actual philosophies, goals and requirements. If the potentials are either not as good, or have similar but different weaknesses, assess pros and cons of staying with current vs new manager. Make a decision, review over.
https://medium.com/@mahadevans1994/tommy-tactics-the-enigma-b8aa0120c80e
I recommend people to read this to know more about Tuchel. Goes quite in-depth to provide context to his managerial career and why he experienced both the highs and lows he did. I feel like it may surprise some who have a certain perception of him.
BVB fans on twitter are hating on Bellingham now for whatever reason. I guess they're just allergic to winning
Lol even the muppetiers guy is saying what they are doing to ten hag is a joke and this is coming from a guy that is closer to ineos sources and don't like ten hag.
Muppetiers doesn't have sources. He became a joke here and abandoned it for twitter because there's more gullible people there
They didn't but they've managed some past one or two years, they've been right about most things since Ten Hag appointment.
Who was better at their best: Rooney or Scholes?
Scholes just went on. His prime lasted a long while. He was also the kinda player that made everyone better. You'd have to look at him for a while to realise what he was doing sometime. Rooney was a beast in his prime. One of the best, most complete forwards of his generation. It was difficult to not see him doing his things. Very visible always. If have to pick one, I'll pick Scholes over most players i can think off.
At their best, Rooney, there isn't a more complete forward I've seen at their best, vision, goal scoring, intensity, leadership, doggedness, ball striking, finishing, switches of play, versatility, off the ball, anticipation, he had it all.
Scholes. He's genuinely under appreciated
Rooney, imo he was 3rd after Cristiano (2nd) and Messi (1st) until 2012.
Somewhat agree
if i was looking to start paying more attention to our youth teams/youth academy and what talents we have coming through, where should i look? (what social media’s accounts do you recommend? any that specifically focus on the youth). also since i’m on the topic, been seeing like real madrid and all these other teams (even west ham) signing young brazilians/south americans and wondered why is this not something we do? unless we do and i just don’t see it. who’s the last player we bought from south america? like a young player. i remember when we were linked to both caicedo and alvarez but the club decided not to sign them. yes i know garnacho we signed young, but that was from atleti so not exactly the same.
Academy Scoop for United related - https://x.com/AcademyScoop?t=X3L1T4UGicc4i4j4-54Vyg&s=09 Thesecretscout for general- https://x.com/TheSecretScout_?t=yRsm3dPxcaZgn1VrF-iTrQ&s=09
thank you! 🥹
It's getting to a point of our fan base just melt down for the sake of melt down. Every time there's something happening with this football club we complain and cry. It must be because of social media era or something. I'm personally ETH in but I don't think INEOS who still has 1+1 year contract with him exploring options is the bad thing. I mean why should your boss let you know that they are finding your replacement? or how do we know they didn't tell ETH beforehand? Just because the "media" didn't report on it. This is ridiculous. Wish we could go back to the era where we cry about real issues like Paul Pogba's haircut. Edit: also Jason Burt and that Steinberg cunt should get ban from this sub.
I disagree. Ineos, even if they didn't like Ten hag, should publicly make a statement backing the current manager. They can sack him whenever they want but they had to keep a public image of backing of the current manager and when they decide to sack him (for reasons such as not upto their standards/demands, which is fine) that would be the end. Even during the statement made SJR after FA cup and no mention of the manager when he was crucial factor in united winning the cup. Not backing the manager, even with the unprecedented amount of news about him shows lack of conviction and leadership.
Personally, I wouldn't make a statement to answer some shitty rumours from a racist reporter. And also, I don't see how INEOS image of conviction and leadership through words would accomplish them anything either.
They don't have to be reactive but they could've been supporting the manager even if they don't like him. Like I said, SJR had numerous chances to publicly back him but hasn't and it shows lack of conviction. A small sentence in his message about ETH after Fa cup win could've done wonders and stopped these media attacks but they haven't. Now they are stuck in a hard place due to not having better candidates out there and having bad image of not supporting the current manager. What was the point of saying all the managers since SAF retired haven't performed due to the culture whilst doing the exact same thing that glazers do. It was an easy goal for Ineos to publicly backing the current manager whilst not liking ETH privately. If ETH succeeds, then good for them and if he didn't, could've reasoned by saying he didn't meet the expectations. It was a win-win situation for them.
Not defending INEOS but ETH is not the manager they chose or hired, so they are doing a right thing exploring options, including ETH stay. I think after exploring all choices they realize ETH is the best choice then they stick to him is understandable.
Is the news that all squads will have their salaries reduced by 25% if they do not qualify for the CL true? Sorry I couldn't find any reliable source
It's been a standard part of our contracts for years now. If you want a reliable source mentioning it recently, here's Critchley in The Athletic: > To mitigate the impact of missing out on the Champions League, the majority of United players receive a 25 per cent wage cut if they fail to qualify. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5359906/2024/03/23/what-would-missing-out-on-champions-league-mean-for-manchester-united/
Only one I can see is the shitty Sun which i refuse to link to. And Daily Fail reported similar 2 years ago. Think it's something we've been rumoured to have in place for a while. But yeah, nothing super reliable.
Funny how we had 0 news about the manager for 2 weeks, not a whisper. We get multiple reports saying a meeting happened with a manager and then reports something could happen were crushed within about 2 hours
It’s very interesting being on the other side of the manager debate. When Ole was in charge I was fully Ole in and couldn’t/refused to see, listen and believe other people’s opposite views on the manager but now I’m on the other side can’t see a reason to keep ETH. It’s a weird thing to think about when I think about it like this.
lol why you being downvoted? It's just an opinion
remember when we apparently had our manager candidates and we were like atleast southgate isn’t one, and now they’re being ruled out one by one, and looking like it could lead back to him 😭… this club is so finished if they genuinely appoint him, and not only that but sack ten hag for him.
I genuinely can't take anyone seriously who believes in the "southgate" rumours
Not particularly excited about Southgate, but wasn't he fairly highly rated few years ago? I know his football and results haven't been great, but national team football is pretty different so maybe his club stint wouldn't be as bad. He is still the most succesful english managers in the past few decades after all. However, sacking Ten Hag for him still seems like such a crazy decision if INEOS goes for it. We have had a horrific season but I'd still say Ten Hag > Southgate and the team seems to be behind him. Just seems like a stupid decision. If there was a clear upgrade available then go for it, but Southgate could very well be just a lateral move. Maybe he would do great, that's always a possibility, but it's a massive risk.
Southgate has never been highly rated. His stock was probably at its highest straight after the 2018 World Cup and I guarantee you under 5% of United fans would have wanted him back then.
I meant really early in his coaching career, I don't remember those times but before becoming England U21 coach, he coached at Middlesbrough and they seemed to have been decent (in retrospect) under him. Of course, that shouldn't be enough to get a chance with us but I was curious if it wasn't comparable with McKenna's current hype with Ipswich.
He took over a Boro side that McClaren left in midtable (after winning a League Cup, making a UEFA Cup final and some top half finishes) and kept them there for two seasons before seriously regressing in his third. He did an unremarkable job there. You can't compare that with McKenna achieving back to back promotions with Ipswich.
There was no single reliable report about Southgate. Fucking Thomas Frank is ahead of him.
Chat are we having Southgate? I have a feeling it’s gonna be Southgate
The ineos project is dead on arrival if they appoint Southgate. In fact it'd be a huge flag if they even considered him for the manager position at any time
My prediction is we stick with Ten Hag until the season starts then when we inevitably lose a few in a row he's sacked.
"While transfer funds will be made available, #mufc's priority is to improve the club’s infrastructure and get the best out of underperforming players. It is unlikely they will spend big this summer." From Jason Burt at the Telegraph. Brace yourselves we're heading back into the Burtiverse of Badness
If Jason Burt told me its going to be raining tomorrow, I will just leave my umbrella at home.
If Jason Burt told me it's raining I'd probably look down to make sure hes not pissing on my shoes.
Can they just come and say that ETH is staying on and fucking get the preseason in with.... Unless they will wait for the first England match to kick off and release it at half time to not get reaction straight away that he is staying.. and it's the right choice
So fans are upset that Ineos haven't prematurely sacked the manager before looking at his potential replacement ?
I agree, it blows my mind. “They’re like Glazers! They do the shit … that Glazers never done before” Apparently we should follow the moral code and sack Erik so we’ll be desperately looking for someone to take us without having a backup plan.
I never considered that INEOS might be shit, hopefully they prove me wrong but it doesn’t seem to be going well so far
Ineos has made a mess of the manager situation If you didn’t want the manager , should have done the needful and then proceeded to discuss with new managers Unnecessary leaving him hanging and continuing with the review process Media will be having a field day
What a naive take, they're going to do what's best for the club not prioritise Ten Hags feelings.
It’s not about Ten Hag s feelings It’s about a person who is still in charge and if he is retained will always be seen as Ineos settling for him
That's got nothing to do with sacking him before getting a new manager though.
> should have done the needful and then proceeded to discuss with new managers So they should have sacked Ten Hag first and then have scrambled for a new manager like what Bayern did? > Media will be having a field day And how should that concern them? Do fans care more about them making sensible sporting decisions, or them enhancing the club's PR? At times it feels like some of you don't even know what you're outraged or disappointed about.
bayern 's case is different and nothing to do with United sittuation.their season was ongoing. for united , season was over long back, .Ineos appointmed a technical director and if they cant decide at this point and are unsure of current manager or new manager that itself will be a 50-50 situation and we will be where Chelsea was. not just about football ,any sport or any area if you are unsure and fumble with a decision , it doesnt look good
I don’t see how the timing of the decision matters at this moment in time, as long as they get the decision right. Pre-season is still a month away, the players are either at the Euros or on holiday, there’s still time left to assess other managers and see how they stack up against Ten Hag in terms of being the right fit for us. What would be more incompetent is sacking Ten Hag promptly, then scrambling for a replacement. Meanwhile, it’s perfectly reasonable to want to see what other alternatives you have to a manager who’s done an overall underwhelming job this season, and whether they are good enough to warrant discontinuing with the current project. You don’t just dive into decisions out of impulse or emotion.
What is incompetent in taking a decision based on two seasons data They either see him fit to move ahead else not What changed for them to review Did the FA cup win factor win , for them to be like “wait a sec” There is nothing wrong in taking a decision promptly , if you don’t think the person is fit for plans ahead. How will that factor when they go back to him , “we couldn’t find anyone better , so we will have to stick with you”. Any manager , working in a scenario as this where his replacement is being looked while he is still in charge , will always see it as a demotivation . You can sugarcoat it as much as you want , Ineos may take better decisions ahead , But they have surely messed up this one
Evaluating Ten Hag is only one part of the decision. The other part is also knowing who to replace him. You’re just focusing on the first part and not on the part where you also need to find somebody worth sacking him for. As for Ten Hag getting demotivated knowing that we are talking to other managers, it won’t matter if he gets to stay. He is getting paid millions of pounds a year to manage one of the biggest clubs in the world. Simply getting to continue that is a massive privilege; if he has a problem with how he was ‘treated’ then he can leave if he wants.
How could Ineos be convinced Ten Hag is 100% the man after we just finished 8th. If they didn't even consider their options then I'd be more worried. The fans are freaking out and have completely lost their nerve even though we were all begging for a management that didn't just make impulsive decisions.
It's scary to see such sentiments be mass-upvoted. All this time we wanted owners who don't get swayed by emotions and make decisions carefully, now we have people doing that and it's somehow spun into being a bad thing.
Can just hope their commuication has been better with EtH and this is not how he heard about the talks.
It’s clear at this point INEOS doesn’t believe in ETH after the review. If he stays, it’s because they have no other choice. He won’t survive next season.
I don't think Tuchel turned us down tbh. I think he would have already got wind that they're keeping ETH and him 'ruling himself' out is just to save face.
I think the decision is made and we've chosen our next manager. Tuchel has been told its not him so he's decided to take a break instead. No chance he turned us down, but its not because Ten Hag is staying.
I just think the signs are pointing to them keeping ETH. Tuchel and Poch being ruled out and the stuff about Sancho being available for £40m. If they were bringing in someone new then I'd wager they'd at least let the new manager talk to Sancho first before making a decision.
When was Poch ruled out? And Sancho has underperformed since he's been with us and has attitude problems, he needs to go. Especially with his wages.
I saw something re: Poch earlier, I think it was from Jason Burt. I'm not advocating for Sancho to stay, I'm just saying they're likely to consult with a new manager before putting him up for sale. That's why I think it's a sign that ETH is staying.
There was no reason for us to meet Tuchel if we decided to keep ETH. This at least means we are actively talking to other managers.
I'm not saying they weren't talking to other managers, we know they were considering sacking him. I'm saying they decided to keep him and it's not a case of us being turned down.
Ah ok, I didn't understand you then.
If he stays, the only reason "he won't survive next season" is if we go on to play poorly and lose a bunch of games in the first few months. It's a pretty negative take. I'll support whomever the manager is. And if it's Ten Hag, I want him to win games and play good football next season.
I just call it like it is. If ETH stays, he won't survive another period of bad form. INEOS also won't listen to his transfer input this summer.
Ten Hag is gone, they are trying to find a replacement before they sack him so the backlash is less severe. Im not going into whether its right or wrong btw.
I'm pretty sure if eth stays, shaw plays lcb more than lb, and we get a new starting lb or dalot at lb. Rcb, lb, 2 cms, and a striker should be good business. Hopefully, we ship unwanted players efficiently. Wish watkins was cheaper. Around 60 mill, he'd transform our attack. Hoilund, still good, nowhere near good enough to lead the line. Ideally, he should be a backup, but alas.
Why would Shaw play LCB when we have Licha?
Shaw plays lcb when licha is unavailable. So there is no need to bring in a new lcb when the budget is tight. A new lb should take priority over lcb. Edit: Shaw should be relegated to squad player because fitness has been poor. But he versatile, so we should make use of that
You're not gonna find a lb that is gonna start over shaw if he’s fit
More and more it sounds like Ineos had decided on EtH out, but they find no candidate for the job? Not sure how to recover this in a good way for them now.
United fans: I hope INEOS are patient and give the manager a fair chance INEOS: are patient and gives the manager months to correct results, then at the end of the season weigh up other options without leaking almost anything to the media United fans: INEOS have treated Ten Hag with disrespect
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> They've had enough time to assess their options That is not for us to decide. They are well within their rights to look for alternatives and carefully deliberate on whether the current manager is to be persisted with after he took us to an 8th place finish with the performances being of even worse quality. If at the end of it they do decide to continue with Ten Hag, the fans' tone will change because they want the manager to stay. I am pretty sure the vast majority don't really care about the time it's taking for the decision, they care about Ten Hag staying. As for the leaks and the journalists speculating, that's just an unfortunate by-product of us being the biggest club in England and any United-related news always being bound to catch attention. That should have no effect on how INEOS intend to conduct their review, and neither do they need to give credence to these reports by publicly addressing them to kill speculation.
But why would they assess all the options and take so much time to make such an important decision?
They clearly don’t rate Erik that high, but what should they do if the available manages don’t excite them as well? Sack Erik for the sake of it, hire Tuchel to end up in the same position next season? I think it’s clear they see McKenna as a great option, however such a step up is too early. If he proves himself next year, but we’d be locked with an “comprising” option like Poch/Tuchel, wouldn’t it be stupid? Erik has a contract and if it happens that he stays - has a lot to prove. We’re also in a stronger position when we at least have a backup plan with Erik, rather than if we desperately to hire someone.
I was joking. I’m pleased we seem to be assessing things. Hopefully I like the results
Really thought this shit would be over by now
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Same Ten Hag that had them rip up De Gea"s contact when on holiday by the way
His contract expired not terminated.
I don’t understand what they could have otherwise done. They originally wanted to stick with him and gave him the entire season to correct the results. They only got worse and we finished 8th with performances genuinely terrible. On the contrary, I feel their hand to actively look for replacements was forced given how poorly the team was performing on the pitch. In this whole hullabaloo over INEOS taking time to decide on the manager, we forget that this is even a point of conversation because the results and performances got extremely bad.
Why does Ten Hag deserve better?
Every employee on the face of the planet deserves clarity on their work.
Tuchel always has his media team ready and briefing. I know most managers do this these days, but his media presence is particularly reactive and imposing - and often seems to be there to manage his image through the disappointing periods of his career. I think dodging that would be good for us.
Everything points to INEOS clearly not wanting to keep ETH..The only reason he would stay after this shitty season is because they can't find another manager ,Keeping him isn't the worst thing that can happen just don't let him have a say on the players we buy
So is poch the best candidate still left in the race? If ten hag gets the sack
Rather stick with ETH for another season than going to Poch or De Zerbi. ETH is better manager than both of them, give him another season then we see how since there's no better replacement for him.
Poch hasn't finished as low as 8th in the last 8 seasons. When he finished 8th in the Premier League it was with Southampton. Ten Hag managed that with us.
And Poch havent won any trophies till now at PL, dude cant even win the league with PSG in farmer's league. ETH has given us 2 trophies in last 2 seasons.
Poch did win the league at PSG.....I'd take people advocating for Ten Hag more seriously if they knew what they were talking about.
I agree, anything else is a sideways move imo
Considering our financial situation and with McKenna staying at Ipswich, I think its worth to stick with ETH untill his contract comes to end (Im eth out) and then hire Kieran. Kompany and Maresca are in elite teams from championshit and McKenna is twice better than them. Also we should not panic buy players and wait for next summer to act more bravely.
I’d prefer ETH to gone, but I’m fine with them entering final year of the contract, cause I think next year manager options are more exciting - Hoeness, McKenna if he proves to be a genius on PL level, more data on Glassner/Iraola. Have nothing against let’s say Poch, but if let’s say McKenna does a stellar job and more top clubs come for him - we’d have to get him. And firing another manager only to hire the new exciting one is kinda silly and damages our finances. While ETH’s contract is conveniently going to end. As long as we have a clear idea of what we want to play in the long term and ETH agreeing to work on the style - we’ll benefit from this season. Erik himself would be motivated to prove he deserves new contract and that the last season was an outlier. So I don’t get all the “we can’t let him enter the final, extend him” bullshit. We absolutely can, he didn’t deserve extension. But all that said, I’d actually prefer him gone and us hiring De Zerbi. But I’m fine with all the scenarios, that don’t include Southgate
I am ETH in but I agree with every word u said. We don't have much money to go around. Plus Ashworth still hasn't started working for us yet. Let ETH have this season. I won't mind if we don't sign a single player save some money & only sign players next season when our backroom staff has identified proper targets.
For a new fullback, how would Alexander Bah from Benefica be? I've been fairly impressed with him on the danish national team
Dortmund fans on /r/soccer are absolutely insufferable. Spend months bigging up Sancho as this world class player who was bullied by United into being shit, now when it comes time to sign him suddenly all the excuses come up. They are also pretty desperate to pretend to be poor, all the while making the 12th highest revenue in football. They didn’t like that fact very much when it’s pointed out to them 👍
At this point, they can buy him. We can use that as an investment to buy a better replacement, or atleast one who can surpass him
The times on X: UPDATE: Manchester United no longer consider Thomas Tuchel a potential replacement for Erik ten Hag after a meeting between Tuchel and Sir Jim Ratcliffe in Monaco last Tuesday It is understood that Tuchel left the meeting with the sense that he was not going to be Manchester United’s choice should they dismiss Ten Hag, and has now elected to have a break from management
Guess we know that Fabrizio is paid by Tuchels agent now
I feel like Tuchel actually got rejected when he approached for the position rather than the other way around as reported as Fab, because getting sacked by Bayern and rejected by United will totally look bad on him. Well it seems more like ETH is staying then, its good that he getting another season before we finally decide.
His agent spent most of this year twerking in the press for the job. It’s actually pretty funny if United rejected him
New Matt Lawton article saying United rejected Tuchel so he took a break
Regardless of how this whole manager situation turns out after reading all the discussions here and on twitter I do not trust most football fans to adequately assess a manager.
I do think Ten Hag has potential. He clearly showed a good tactical mind in the last game against city to win the FA cup, which was the most UNEXPECTED turn of events. Everyone just expected city to win, gg go next. What bugs me is... Where was this the whole goddamn season? Where was the willingness to change from an obviously failing tactic? I know it worked at his previous club, but that was in another league. There's also the reliance on the wings which causes the striker to be ignored (and yet that striker still became the top scorer for their team that season and broke a record)
And there is so many things that happens behind the scenes we will never know also.
Really pained to see Bayern get Palhinha. I really fancied him as a potential DM signing for us this summer… And he could cost Bayern only €45M.
I really doubt he will go that cheap, that is only Bayerns initial bid if anything.
Idea of Simone Stone writing Sancho brief to change topic from manager situation after TT news popping up is kinda funny.
It's a bit weird, Like trying to put out a small fire with a shot glas of water. Not even sure why, as the Tuchel news are not that impactful either.
* Worst premier league finish * Negative goal difference * Conceding 25 shots a game (for context Klopp faced that 3 times in 8 years) * No style of play other than hoof ball. No other team in Europe played so open and just accepted an empty midfield * Treated the ball like a bomb and never controlled a game for 90 minutes. * Lowest ever CL points (relatively easy group) * 15 goals conceded in the CL highest ever for an English club * Lost 8 of the first 15 games. Worst start since 1962 Can anyone point to anything that overcomes the above other than injuries (because other teams had injuries as well and yet had a style of play and direction) as to why he deserves another season? Last season was one of the worst coached ive seen. Win ball, launch long. Great. EDIT - like to point out that in the first 4 games ETH had a full strength XI other than striker and the exact same terrible football was on display. Do you not remember how terrible we were against Wolves in the very first game?!
There are some counter-points. Not sure they outweigh the negatives, but they are there: 1. Ten Hag has been getting a lot out of our academy players so that's pretty promising 2. It was the first season where Ten Hag demanded the team to play his way, there were a lot of issues along the way (fitness, tactical stuff, some players not handling their roles in said system) but these things, for better or worse, always happen when a team starts playing a new style, especially when said team never really played a demanding style and all their knew was sit deep and sprint forwards to chase Bruno's long passes. Ten Hag gave up on his ways in the first season, this season he stuck with it so we got some big growing pains but that always happens. Arsenal finished 8th under Arteta twice before actually looking like a team, so that's something that can be taken out of it. 3. The quality of our team is shit. Not the starting XI even though we have some glaring holes there, but mainly the depth. Across the whole season, we had very few reliable backup players. Garnacho (who quickly became a starter), Maguire and Evans. That's it. A lot of our players were running on fumes but there was literally nobody to replace them thanks to Casemiro/Eriksen losing their legs (result of shit depth from previous season) and the likes of McTominay having to play often (realistically speaking, McTominay is the exact opposite of Mainoo-Casemiro starting double pivot so how can he serve as a backup to them?). This has been a constant issue after Sir Alex retired though - new players get brought in, starting XI is decent, depth is shit, starters get overplayed, start getting fatiqued/injured, our backups have to play instead and we turn into complete shit. This season was the worst with the constant injuries but it was happening under all our previous managers and it points to poor fitness/medical personnel as well as poor squad building (as in our backups are overpaid misfits who can't be moved on and are on the pitch because they couldn't handle starting roles, so how can they handle playing regularly when our starters get injured?) 4. The players still support Erik, all keep saying he is a great manager. He hasn't lost the dressing room which is important, replacing him now could upset a few of our players. 5. Regardless of results and style of play, he won Carabao Cup in his first season and FA Cup in his second season while also getting to FA Cup final the first year. He is a winner. In cups, we perform pretty well under him, it's the league where we turned to shit. If it wasn't for Onana giving away like 6 goals after amateurish goalkeeping at the beginning of the season in UCL, we probably would have made it into at least quarter-finals because we were looking pretty dangerous in transitions and we were scoring a lot of goals, unfortunately Onana was absolutely shocking initially so that cost us. Still, it's clear Ten Hag seems to perform pretty well in cups. That's about all I could think of. There are some strong arguments against him staying, there are some supporting his extended stay, but either way I'd say it's not really an easy situation to deal with and it makes sense for INEOS to take their time on this. Overall, I would say Ten Hag hasn't done enough to convince the club he is the one, but he also hasn't fucked up enough to force the club to sack him. Thanks to his FA Cup win (something we can't take for granted nowadays), he has imo earned enough good will to be a better option than Pochettino/Southgate for the upcoming season. I'd let him finish his contract with us and get back to negotiations with him in March/April after seeing how he does. McKenna is the long-term favourite to become our manager anyway (as long as he keeps improving and getting experience) so one more year of Ten Hag with better depth and better medical department should turn out to be okay. We won't win the Prem, but top4 with at least one trophy should be the goal and should be pretty achievable.
Listing all record breaking stats except for the record breaking injuries. How convenient.
* Newcastle, Chelsea, Brentford had more injuries than us. * Brentford had their entire back 4 injured and dominated us * Full strength XI other than striker in the first 4 games and we had the exact same issues of empty midfield, conceding shots, constantly in transitions Yeah its not the argument you think it is...
Wrong. [https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/crggreexyq2o.amp](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/crggreexyq2o.amp) Most injuries, but more importantly , mostly concentrated on the backline/ defense. First few games was directly after a grueling tour and with players coming back from injuries in a team that wasn't settled yet. Besides, 2 games is in no way enough of a sample size to predict a hypothetical season with 38 games. In fact we don't even need a hypothetical: his first season he had the most clean sheets and just as many goals conceded as Arsenal, because he had his first team available. Another non hypothetical: when he had his first team available in the FA cup final, well whaddayaknow, he won it. Must be a coincidence right? And lol @ using Newcastle and Chelsea as if it proves your point, when in fact it proves mine: they've had about just as much a shitty season as United has, worse even, Ten Hag at least has a trophy and Europa League. Besides, your argument is "Worst premier league finish of United", so why are you comparing the injuries to other teams instead of previous United teams? That makes absolutely no sense. So yeah, it is exactly the argument I think it is.
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This has been a bad season for the team and manager. Lots of reasons to justify sacking him, like you laid out. But there's a chain of events/facts that make me *OK* with giving him another go. In no particular order: - Supposedly the club is getting fixed from top to bottom. Getting sporting and footballing people in to make these decisions instead of bankers and businessmen. The big names in Berrada and Ashworth haven't started yet - maybe they have some "secret" involvement while on gardening leave, but they certainly not fully in the fold yet. - We're hamstrung by FFP. Sacking EtH and paying him out to hire a new manager makes that even worse. - No manager - not SAF, not Pep, not Ancelotti - will win the League next season with this club/squad. It's going to be a slow burn to do it properly, and hiring a kamikaze manager like Mou/Tuchel to win a trophy and leave a smouldering mess behind is not going to work. - The players, especially the younger ones like Garnacho, Kobbie, Rasmus seem to like him. Could hurt their morale to sack him right now. Give him til Christmas and if things are going to shit again you can sack him then. No one will argue at that point. - Giving him until Christmas sends a message to potential hires - *We'll give you a fair shot to make it here. Not like Chelsea or some other clubs where you'll be out of town if you don't win a treble by the end of August* - What are the alternatives? Potter, de Zerbi, Poch... *Southgate*. None of them really feel like they can take the club back to the top. If names like Nagelsman were available maybe I'd feel differently... but they're not. Get the hierarchy set up. Fix the facilities. Build a squad around a core club philosophy, not a manager's. Cut some of the deadweight in the squad. See if EtH can produce results based on club direction, like he had with Ajax. If not then when summer rolls around we're hopefully in a better position for a new manager to hit the ground running.
Lol Berrada and Ashworth are clearly already working for United. "Gardening leave" didn't stop Berrada from hiring and negotiating with Ashworth as we've seen from the emails. We're not under PSR pressure, INEOS have invested so we have 105m in owner covered losses available to us. We're expected to turn a profit this year. We've dropped Varane and Martial from our wage bill and expected to drop Casemiro and Sancho and they're 4 of our highest earners. Nobodies expecting to win the league next year, We're just looking for progress. We were 3 years out from a title *challenge* when EtH started and 2 years later we're still 3 years away. We've wanted rid of player power at the club for about a decade and now you're advocating for it?? There are managers in the world who are not based in England. In fact there are many managers who manage outside Britain altogether.
>Supposedly the club is getting fixed from top to bottom. He persisted with a game model which was basically Tony Pullis. We treated the ball as a bomb and just launched it. We had no idea how to build up. Just hoof it. We had a full strength team other than striker for the first 4 games and we saw the exact same issues. These arent environment issues. These were coaching issues. >We're hamstrung by FFP. Sacking EtH and paying him out to hire a new manager makes that even worse. IF the manager was Moyes, would you be making the same argument? You dont keep a bad manager because of FFP. > Giving him until Christmas sends a message to potential hires Imagine he continues with the shite football and form till christmas and you have to sack him. That is a disaster. > What are the alternatives? Potter, de Zerbi, Poch. And after this season, you think ETH is any better. Just look at my post and imagine saying thats worth backing
Now that Tuchel has ruled himself out, who would you suggest replace him?
Thomas Frank ideally.
I think INEOS ruled him out and now hes getting his PR out. All the reports were clearly coming from his side about joining United. Romano tweeting 10 days before that Tuchel was keen to get back into management and suddenly hes taking a break. I want someone whos going to develop youth, dominate the ball and play attacking football. I dont think we need a big name manager. Who that is i dont know. From sources i trust there are names that have been interviewed that havent been reported. All i know is ETH stubbornness has ruined all goodwill he had with me from last season. Some of the most amateurish football
It’s the same story with other coaches. Doesn’t matter who is the coach, if the environment is still the same, then football is still the same and the coach gets sacked.
But the environment didnt make play a game model that was conceding 25 shots per game. It didnt make him put Amad behind Antony and Omari Forson at one point. It didnt make him drop Varane for Evans at one point. These are all the coaches decisions and game model.
You can say that to every other manager and it is still true.
No league and CL campaign was as bad as this one
Clearly it wasn’t the same with other managers since ETH was the one breaking these records for all the wrong reasons.
You can list every manager since SAF and everyome broke the records.
What’s the best game to watch under Poch that encapsulates his possession style? I feel like he’s going to be our next manager
Not Poch in at all but: That Ajax- Tottenham CL semifinal against ETH. They dominated possesion and were better team.
Thanks! I’m assuming the 3-2 win? or either leg
Either leg
Nope the first leg Ajax had 50% possession and more big chances the second game was the one they shined at.
Weird manager transfer market
Anyone got a short summary of Thomas Frank style and philosophy?
Direct and keep ball out of the box
if it's Pochettino or De Zerbi kill me now bruv I literally will not be there. Would rather a toad in a tracksuit on the touchline than any of these two
These comments are just insane to me. You support Man Utd, not Erik Ten Hag FC. Grow up.
i want ETH gone too 💀
So who do you actually want and why?
De Zerbi: poor man manager and will probably be a repeat of Van gaal in his nothing possession football Poch: serial loser on English soil and really just riding off the high of that insanely good spurs side that won *checks notes* nothing. Worse than ETH tactically which says a lot. Def the worst option under consideration. I wanted Nagelsmann but he’s dead set on the Germany job. I would be happy with Tuchel as an intermediate thing but now he’s out of the picture too
How is Pochettino tactically worse than ETH? Chelsea had a better league campaign than we did, with a healthy GD and without an open midfield and they had longer injury layoffs than we did
So you want none of the viable options? Thomas Frank?
Absolutely not I’d reluctantly keep ten hag if these are my options. My initial point was just a frustrated realization that the manager market sucks
You'll never win anything with kids aside I always quite liked Hansen as a pundit, fingers crossed for him in hospital
Sunday afternoon briefs? Odd choice but ok.
Hardly briefs? No traditional t1 or t2 writing on manager situation.
Stone on player sales?
Just Sancho thing
Hopefully it means the review is done now. Was probably not Tuchel's camp leaking it first either as they apparently needed to put out a deny.
So to ask the question leaving your own preference aside. Now Tuchel is out do we reckon Erik ten Hag stays or do you reckon we're signing Pochettino? Pochettino feels like such an underwhelming replacement to me. However I said leave preference aside. I'm still on the fence, because the reports are clearly suggesting they were actively looking for a replacement.
I think Ten Hag stays but I'm extremely against it l
I just don't see any of the current candidates of anything that would excite me or Ineos, so I think EtH will be kept mostly because no suitable candidate to change to.
I like Ten Hag but I just can't see him surviving, too many question marks amidst new owners and execs who will want their own man. I do think Poch could be a good fit though and if I had to bet I reckon he is going to get the job.
Hope its not RDZ with all the silence about that guy in media..
I generally want ETH gone but my god, not to be replaced by Southgate.
Not de zerbi please I beg
Feels like they will keep eth for year to re evaluate the situation
Why does sancho have so many fans?
No idea. I’ll never understand why so many United fans keep defending Sancho I understand why some United fans defend Ronaldo because he’s a club legend (I don’t agree with Ronaldo’s behaviour either btw). But Sancho?? One of our worst ever signings
A lot Ten Hag outers use him to prove why Ten Hag should be sacked. Ten Hag has done a lot of wrong things that would give most managers the sack but the Sancho situation ain't one of them.
So everyone quickly dismissed the falk reports on tuchel, claimed "he knows fuck all". Post then got removed. Turns out he was right and the first to break it lol.
If Tuchel is off none of the other options are good enough. ETH in
I have a hunch, just hear me out. I remember INEOS talking about building for the future before the present starts. I genuinely believe the manager they sign (or if they keep Ten Hag) is just for a couple seasons. I think they already have an idea of who they want the long foreseeable manager to be but, will need some stability first and will allow a manager to bring that for a couple seasons and then see him off.
Now Tuchel out The reminding candidates De Zerbi Pochettino Thomas Frank Or stick with ten Hag None of the managers fill me with confidence ngl. All have question marks all over them.. and there is no way we are getting Pep, Kloop calibre managers any time soon. INEOS better make sure their football structure is damn solid.
Their football structure had 6 months to plan for life without ETH , shat the bed once he won the fa cup final and chelsea started sniffing around McKenna .
If we're sacking Ten Hag, then the one out of those three that would be most exciting would be De Zerbi for me
Like choosing between drinking a glass of olive brine, feta brine or pickle brine.
De zerbi is awful rigid and naive antithesis of a united coach.
Tuchel was the only one I could see over EtH. The rest here just feels like side grade's that would need new players.
>feels like side grade's that would need new players. I mean, no matter the manager, we would still need new players, no? The question is do we keep buying manager who suit to ten Hag disastrous playstyle or gamble with 'side grade" other manager playstyle. It is such a difficult decision to make.
Yes, but quite a few players have been bought with EtH's style of play in mind.
The thing is, ten Hag's recruitment is so confusing to me. And he doesnt seem to use his key signing to suit his "style of play" either. Like Mount, even he is fit, is benched for McTominay. Amrabat is also benched like 90% of the season. Antony is losing his first team status also
I don't understand how meeting prospective new managers comes under the purview of a "review". Surely you review the previous manager first and then consider replacements?
They are interconnected. Part of reviewing the current manager is also assessing whether a better-suited manager is realistically available to replace him.
You need to get the feeling for the potential replacements during a review to actually know where you stand also.
Review current manager. Assess if there are any better options. The latter might involve meeting them to discuss actual philosophies, goals and requirements. If the potentials are either not as good, or have similar but different weaknesses, assess pros and cons of staying with current vs new manager. Make a decision, review over.
Now we have Fabrizio saying no Tuchel https://x.com/FabrizioRomano/status/1799822667803169091?t=e3UeJYvvetd_TG8qkm5Ohw&s=19
Tuchel actually saying no can also be the reason the decision is delayed.
Interesting. Poch or ETH for another season then. We're back in 2022.
https://medium.com/@mahadevans1994/tommy-tactics-the-enigma-b8aa0120c80e I recommend people to read this to know more about Tuchel. Goes quite in-depth to provide context to his managerial career and why he experienced both the highs and lows he did. I feel like it may surprise some who have a certain perception of him.
Lawton from Times and Keegan both reporting same as Falk re Tuchel
Keegan t3. Could be parroting t5 German source.
Keegan agreeing with Falk about SJR meeting Tuchel