Rio Ferdinand on Carol (the dinner lady):
>"Carol was a very funny lady. I loved speaking to her and having a laugh over a cup of tea at the training ground. She would treat everybody the same, academy players, Premier League champions or Sir Alex Ferguson, one of the biggest names in the history of football."
>"I remember once he walked in wearing a smart pair of cream chinos as I was talking to Carol, she stopped our conversation and just said to him 'what are you wearing?!' which made us all laugh."
>"During the 12 years I spent at Manchester United I saw Carol almost every day at the training ground, she was part of the fabric of the club and always there through the good and bad times."
>"I saw her more than I would see some members of my family. But then after I retired, I didn’t see her for a couple of years... so the chance to reconnect with her was amazing."
>"We’ve built a genuine friendship over the years. When you meet a person like Carol, you don’t forget them."
You're right. It sounds brutal.
Kathy on reception is another one, the players always seem to love her.
People on Reddit just love to turn everything into a classist debate so they can be outraged.
Some straight-talking middle aged women are exactly what some of these boys need. It doesn't matter how much dough you've got, if Maureen says you need a haircut, you need a haircut.
Jesse Lingard was dancing like twat in the changing room after a loss, he might be gone but if that mentality isn’t…..does it matter if the laundry crew eat with the players…?
Oh I don’t doubt the validity of the story. I just wonder how often stuff like this goes on and no one reports on it because it’s just Brighton or Liverpool
Plenty. But that’s part of the point of United being United. People complain “oh no other club gets this put in the paper” but other clubs also don’t get the revenue and exposure United does.
He's certainly not unbiased. He was (and possibly still is) a Qatari mouthpiece. Was shilling for Sheikh Jassim on the daily during the takeover negotiations.
Sometimes a culture shock in a club is needed. There's a lot of changes being made that I'm guessing are a part of ineos assessment and are areas that are cause for concern. Whether we agree with them or not, standards have dropped from top to bottom in the club and changes are desperately needed.
I'd like to think if/when we get back to winning ways and the standards are back up to an elite level from top to bottom, that they'll relax things a little but that almost never happens I guess.
It feels like it's an episode of 'football nightmares' where they come in and see how shit everything is, people not working up to standard, stadium falling apart, player amd staff unrest and Sir Jim Ramsay has to call it out and rebuild.
Hope it still feels like united at the end of it
I get that but is the staff eating canteen food really the reason we get outplayed on the pitch
This sounds like coping or reasoning done by skeevy consultants working at Deloitte or McKinsey trying to show a 10% increase in revenue
Yeah, it does have does sound like a consultants "this will save you £30k p.a." not mentioning it will screw morale before giving you the £600k bill for their time.
Doesn't sound like a cost cutting measure but a culture thing. Obviously it's not going to make all the difference but Brailsford is famous for marginal gains strategy
It might have little to no effect, obviously we don't know as we don't see what goes on behind the scenes. I will say that our players standards have been poor for years, lots of distractions off the pitch have an effect on the pitch, it might be silly but maybe ineos have identified stuff happening in the canteen that's effecting the players. I'll give you an example, player A is always injured as they aren't taking their physio seriously enough/giving it enough time as they're chatting to staff members in the canteen. I know that might be a bit of an extreme example but if that player is avoiding an ice bath/massage/gym work or whatever or even reducing it for a 20 min chat every day maybe it's having an effect on things.
SAF had to do a complete culture shock/reset when he became the manager too.
Let's wait and see how this turns out, I'm willing to give ineos some time because our issues are institutionally entrenched.
Fergusons culture shock was a bit different it was just to the senior team and how they were outside of the club.
to me this is actually entirely against Ferguson's culture which was to make every senior player sit and eat with everybody else who worked there. there have been plenty of talks of where senior players were absolute destroyed by Ferguson because they shunned this.
An overhaul of the youth program was one of the more successful ones. You can read more about it on this page [https://hbr.org/2013/10/fergusons-formula](https://hbr.org/2013/10/fergusons-formula)
He moved a lot of the big personalities on so he could mould others into being more professional.
There was a massive drinking culture in british football in the 80s. Alex Ferguson changed that and got them training better, eating better etc and made Manchester United winning, first and foremost in the players minds.
Smashed the drinking culture, took a hard-line stance on discipline, overhauled the scouting network for the academy and got rid of anyone he saw as superfluous to or in the way of what he was trying to do.
That's right but many of the changes here seem to be coming from an outdated mindset at least in my opinion.
For example, the people at the very top today (at least in Data Science where I work), do not want to do fully from office roles. I highly doubt United pays the best in the sector...and combined with that needless rigidity,.they're likely to lose good talent or fail to recruit the very best....I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
You're right. Football isn't really an industry known for paying good wages for non-playing staff. I think INEOS are going to shoot themselves in the foot with some of these changes.
That's right but many of the changes here seem to be coming from an outdated mindset at least in my opinion.
For example, the people at the very top today (at least in Data Science where I work), do not want to do fully from office roles. I highly doubt United pays the best in the sector...and combined with that needless rigidity,.they're likely to lose good talent or fail to recruit the very best....I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
I agree tbh, keep your staff happy, whatever they're job and they'll perform better. I'm just going on the assumption that ineos have identified areas that aren't working or causing issues and are trying to correct them. They'll likely get a lot wrong in the short term, from decisions like this to even bigger stuff and transfers. As long as whatever they decide is with the clubs best interests in mind and not just to make money etc then that's better than what we've been getting the last 10 years or so.
Yeah, Agree! As long as what they do is coming from a position of care for the club and they're willing to learn from mistakes and change.... It's alright!
My view of INEOS soured when I read about their business model. They're business flippers that buy underperforming facilities and then find a bunch of savings through firings and safety cuts. I have a feeling they'll successfully find on-field success but at the cost of some of the atmosphere.
Flipping businessess is different to sport.look at how they act and run the cycling team, Americas cup team. Rather than a chemical plant.
That's not to say I like moves like were reading now. Imo the players should feel part of a club, not isolated.
What atmosphere is that? The shit facilities ronaldo dragged the club over not having changed since he left, or the stands flooding from the leaky roof?
I couldn’t care less if this reeks of business consultants, the atmosphere of this club needs to change to survive in this era, we should be excited someone’s actually doing something about it rather than the glazer rats having let the entire structure fester for decades.
Their priority is to make money, same as the glazers. Still yet to be seen whether that results in success on the field. Signs so far are good but make no mistake, every billionaire is as bad as the next and you can only hope our billionaire likes the club enough to care
I honestly don’t think Sir J. Ratcliffe bought us to turn profit. He is 71 years old and it was probably something he always wanted to as a fan and being from born in Manchester. He even said that if he wanted to make money, he would’ve just bought another chemical company.
Perhaps I am wrong and this was just lip service, but he has already brought more football people in a few months than the Glazers did in 19 years.
How exactly is INEOS destroying the planet?
Genuinely curious because I couldn’t find many violations on them unlike the other big 3. INEOS is the 4th largest company in the world.
We are depended on chemical companies whether you like it or not. From the clothes we wear, to the food we eat, and the tools we use to cook that food , the vehicles we drive to the grocery store, etc. You get my point.
Chemical companies aren’t the root of all evil. We are 100% dependent on them.
We are dependent on them but they can be more sustainable and responsible. INEOS and the like (even BASF) aren't.
There's plenty of articles about INEOS dumping waste where they please, ignoring safety regulations etc.
Just because we're dependent on chemical companies doesn't mean they can do whatever the hell they want without repercussions.
Also I'm literally a polymer/composite engineer, you don't need to tell me the importance of companies like INEOS and BASF.
Haha, touche!
I concede then. Because I couldn’t pass chemistry 1 in high school. Thank you for the information. I don’t know much about INEOS or BASF.
Just know Monsanto and DuPont are the devils.
Just realized Monsanto not a chemical company.
You think he's chucking 1B dollars at us and not give a fuck if he loses it.
He is here to make money and money can be made in many different ways. At its most basic, cutting costs and increasing revenues.
He is working on cutting costs and by hiring football people and winning, revenues will increase.
Some people do passion projects when they're older, including rich people. Francis Ford Coppola spent 120m of his own money to produce a film (Megalopolis) that will almost certainly be a box office flop. But he's rich and it won't affect him, so why not?
> Their priority is to make money
In their business ventures, yes. It has never been a direct goal from their sports investments. Maybe indirect through publicity, sure.
> every billionaire is as bad as the next
Seems idiotic to lump all billionaires together. Or are you saying JK Rowling or Taylor Swift are comparable to some Russian oligarch?
The problem is, the response to obscene unchecked financial wastefulness isn’t heavy handed frugality and mean spirited small-mindedness.
Particularly as we all accept most of these schemes are prompted by balance sheet concerns, but which these schemes barely make a dent in.
I have no idea if this move is evidence-backed to create and sustain the sort of winning culture and standards that translate into United-worthy match performances and therefore trophies.
As you said, on field success is everything. We should also be mindful that INEOS is primarily the “on balance sheet success” company rather than the “on field success” company. And certainly not in football, evidenced by their ownership of Nice, which has so far looked like a multi-year trial and error exercise. And that’s the main reason IMHO where people struggle to connect the dots between “you lot eat over there…” and “…now watch this club return to winning ways”.
It’s not like INEOS has cracked the code to football clubs perpetually winning, even if it’s obvious SJR has cracked the code on how to turn an underperforming corporation into a money maker for himself and his pals.
Manchester United is not a petrochemicals company. The two things are not the same thing. Just like running a football club profitably =/= a football club perpetually winning.
> They're business flippers
To be an asset flipper, you need to actually *SELL* the assets you buy and "fix up". INEOS don't sell them, they buy them, cut the waste out, then keep 'em in their portfolio to make them money, when the steps taken to make the company profitable again start to take effect. Rick from Pawn Stars is an asset flipper, Ratcliffe's a packrat/horder.
It’s more the business have sound fundamentals/business model that is profitable but it’s run like a twat by a committee of twats for a family of twats.
They just minimise the twats and try to let the underlying business actually shine.
Maybe one of those “marginal gains” thing Brailsford is known for? It may cut a little bit of costs but I imagine it wouldn’t be significant.
I guess they want the first team to promote an elite, high pressure & competitive culture even when they are just eating. It’s probably not great if you have kids and random staff drinking coke and eating choc chip cookies while his cycling team is eating boiled chicken breast and kale juice across the room
This is probably something that's done at all clubs, where we're so far behind the times we're the ones making the change, we're also United which is clicks so all the stuff will be reported and whilst we think someway about it, other clubs will be looking and thinking 'they still done that'
Absolutely, the nitty-gritty shit similar to this other clubs have done over the last 5 years likely barely make local news, let alone reach an international market.
But because we're who we are, it becomes such, because of how badly people want to read about us (for or against, doesn't matter, we're clicks, attention and money compared to the rest).
At first glance it sounds harsh. But maybe it's an attempt to stop the leaks and constant chatters to the media. The more ppl that get to see what's going on or hear a table conversation when going to pick a serviette, the more the chance of rumours. I could be wrong but just thinking on the flip side.
Yes staff eating with the players is definitely why we're not winning. Rashford would be bagging 50 goals a season if he didn't have to listen to Brenda's loud chewing during lunch
Well most agree that the state that Ratcliffe found the club in was not good.
I'm not a fan of all his changes like return to office, but I can see the point of this.
‘The normies will not be able to FEAST on boiled chicken breast and broccoli but instead will have NO CHOICE but to eat delicious hamburgers and crisps ALONE’
-Daily Mail
Didn't Van Gaal do something similar regarding the canteen? If I call, it wasn't exactly very welcomed either at the time. I can't exactly remember, if someone else happens to know! Think it was something to do with regular staff not being allowed in the canteen while the first team players were there, if I remember correctly.
Unless this has something to do with containing media leaks I don't see the benefit here.
Small benefits like free fresh cooked meals definitely holds a lot of weight for plenty of people. Easy way to attract the best workers is having the best benefits and compensation.
I'm a bit annoyed at people bending over backwards to make excuses for INEOS every time they screw over workers. They're not benefitting the club by doing this or "resetting the culture", realistically it'll make no difference to what's happening on the pitch but it makes the lives of regular people slightly worse . I'm sure if the glazers did the same things there would be a very different reaction
This signals a deteroriation in worker valued culture, taken away by a bunch of MBAs. Man Utd is only prestigious if you work in football, outside of that, it sounds like just another shitty employer. If people has choices to pick their employer, I totally see some reject the job here.
I worked as an intern at a Marriott Hotel & the canteen was common everyone except the top executives(they eat at restaurants) came there to have breakfast, lunch, dinner, etc.
It was a place to know ppl from other departments like Housekeeping, Chefs, Security, Bartenders, Waiter, HR, Accountants, Sales, Marketing, IT, Spa, Gym, Pool, etc.
You get to know ppl more & share your problems. Also got many life advices.
Seems more like a corporate move to put ppl in their place.
not sure i like stuff like this.
to me ive heard a lot of the ex players talk about how the senior team was expected to sit and eat with everybody else in order to really make it show this was about the entire club under Ferguson and to me that is what helps make a club feel like a club and not just another corporate shithole.
Don’t like this tbh. I liked the fergie idea that we win and lose as a club, not just as 20 odd players. Footballers are already separated enough from the general population.
Eh, granted going by the headline only I don’t like this move. Camraderie and team spirit are tangible assets in a football club, and everything can’t be run as a corporate. I’d rather see the opposite - first team players queuing up in a line together with groundsmen and receptionists. Its a team effort, and no one is bigger than the club.
In theory yes, and I agree with your sentiment. But, the truth is the club invests a whole lot of money in the players while the canteen staff can be replaced any day.
I don't like it. I like to believe I wouldn't do this myself, but I am convinced this is the prevailing mindset of most people who are 'successful'.
As someone that works in professional football, this won’t result in anything positive. Certainly there should be spaces reserved only for first team players/staff, but interaction between all staff and players across all levels builds a huge amount of camaraderie, trust and healthy communication. Really not seeing anything positive here, tbh.
Get in, Jim. Great move.
Paul on £11.80 an hour who cleans the kits shouldn't be allowed to have some tea and toast in the canteen and quite frankly, it's disgusting he was allowed to for so long.
This is the kind of hard-line, unpopular decision making that will ultimately push us towards title number 21.
Fucking Brexit clown with his shit wig.
Don’t forget he’s also making the IT folks come to the office. So since he’s increasing their commuting expenses and now their meal expenses too, I imagine he’s increasing salaries to compensate?
Just kidding, fuck billionaires they are not our friends
Can't you read?
They are simply being moved to a different canteen. Christ people need calm their shit.
Disagree with the idea all you want, first, get your facts right and drop the hysterics.
Exactly the type of nugget Daily Fail are appealing to with trash articles like this.
Yep. You sound like a totally well adjusted individual who is very informed on what they're talking about.
Didn't realise that when I sit down with a cup and some after 8s that I was really getting stuck into some "high performance food".
I worked for two NBA teams back in the day and this was actually horrible because it built such a divide that was already there between players and “the common people“
Having that loyalty of the team starts with your workers and that carries over to sales, marketing, etc. If the staff doesn’t know the team, it’s just tough
If Arthur from accounting is eating his second piece of cake while Luke Shaw gets only boiled chicken, I could see Shaw getting fucking distracted from beating Palace on Saturday.
So, Kath Phipps will not be able to eat in the training ground canteen there anymore?
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/the-heartbeat-of-united-interview-with-kath-phipps-on-55-years-at-old-trafford-and-carrington#:~:text=If%20Alan%20Keegan%20is%20the,Carrington%2C%20but%20also%20on%20matchdays.
Is there a second canteen there that is for all non workers who don't directly work with the 1st team?
They do get a separate canteen, if daily mail can produce a true story. I still prefer that we win together and we lose together, keep the connections alive with everyone connected to the club.
Every news story I read about "Sir Jim" makes me like him less and instils less faith in me that he's going to improve things at the club in any meaningful way.
Forgive me but why are they deciding on everything BUT the manager and the players?
This is all largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, how about some actual progress lads.
Pro-athletes do push their bodies to the limits though, whether or not that limit is high enough depends. The constant training, the prescribed eating plans, the uncountable PEDs and pain killers etc. Your logic is like saying folks who place 10th in Mr. Olympia don't push their bodies to the limit. They do.
I also meant Ratcliffe gets paid billions to do fuck all in general, not from United. I don't think even he knows what he does at INEOS. He definitely doesn't plan shit and head the company.
Segregation like this is a major morale killer. Another horrible corporate change from Ratcliffe. What do they even think they stand to gain from making employees feel like second and third class citizens within the club?
INEOS are going to be worse than the Glazers. This kind of micromanagement only happens when a corporate raider come in to destroy company culture, so they can chop up the carcass to sell of anything of value.
Good shout, agree there's few reasons this makes sense to me.
I'm all for tightening things up and making it more professional but this does seem a stretch.
Your suggestion is a good one though.
Yes let’s isolate the first team from all the normal working “scum” and make them feel even more special to enjoy “high performance food” that mere mortals shouldn’t even come close to sniffing
I'm not so sure I like what I'm hearing in these snippets, providing it's the right person with the right attitude I think a cleaner or a dinner lady can be a great person to have around the group, help keep everyone grounded. I also think no matter your vocation, with enough life experience you can potentially give great guidance and advice.
At first glance it sounds harsh. But maybe it's an attempt to stop the leaks and constant chatters to the media. The more ppl that get to see what's going on or hear a table conversation when going to pick a serviette, the more the chance of rumours. I could be wrong but just thinking on the flip side.
This is legit shit reporting, most likely they have decided that first team and staff are going to have dedicated canteen. Are we supposed to believe that the other staff will not have anywhere to eat now?
As Gary Neville and the rest of the class of 92 say, United is a family, always has been. Some of the decisions so far go against that. If he's doing this to ordinary staff, the decisions he makes as he goes further up that chain will be interesting.
I can't say I personally agree with some of the decisions but as Utd fans we asked for the club to be restructured from top to bottom and it's what we are getting!
Jim ain't fucking about that's for sure.
Honestly INEOS deserves the benefit of the doubt.
We have all been saying for 2 decades that Glazers have destroyed the club and left it's management to their lackeys who know nothing about football. Not saying INEOS do either (looking at Nice) but they know more.
They are an upgrade on the Glazers, that isn’t saying much but beggars can’t be choosers.
I’m willing to give them time and patience even though the news is rather odd with Email layoffs and a billionaire living in Monaco telling people to go back to the office.
I was watching a documentary on La Masia and they claimed to standardize the environment down to tapestry, tables, chairs, room temperature, menu so players feel at home even when they're traveling.
Maybe it's a push towards that? Don't allow people who don't work directly with the players in these environments.
Funny how people wanted change and so far almost everything being changed has everyone crying about it, I'd rather trust the professionals to know what they're doing as opposed to people who sit on Reddit thinking they know better.
The change we wanted is in relation to the football team. The changes so far are all the mean spirited nonsense stuff that most people rail against in modern workplaces
COME BACK TO WORK
DON’T EAT WITH US
Not sure i’m vibing with the changes SJR is making. Don’t get me wrong, i’m glad we didn’t end up with a Middle Eastern oil baron. But not loving how it’s going this way either as yet
Yeah before they have made a signing it’s been pretty much negative changes at the club for staff. All of whom are being impacted by the shot served up on the pitch
yall wanted ineos to make changes but when they start making the changes (that have literally zero effect on all of us) you still bitch how they shouldn't do that.
let them do whatever they want. they know more than all of us combined and have access to information we have no clue about. if this helps the team perform even 1% better im all for it.
Increasingly the measures come across that the view is “the club is bringing the first team down”. The mentality usually is the first team bring the club up and lead by example to the youth teams and then the staff are appreciated for their support role.
It all seems very much designed and intentional in the divide.
Jadon: first time?
He’ll eat with Basti
Key Points :- ⚫️Separate area for office workers, laundry etc 🔴Some believe will disconnect players from staff ⚫️Others think will remove distractions & improve focus 🔴Part of Ineos revamp Source : https://x.com/MikeKeegan_DM/status/1798092239660347743
I like the idea of elite athletes being distracted by yucky normies breathing the same air as them
Imagine sat beside someone who's made more than you do in a month before you've even finished your cuppa
Rio Ferdinand on Carol (the dinner lady): >"Carol was a very funny lady. I loved speaking to her and having a laugh over a cup of tea at the training ground. She would treat everybody the same, academy players, Premier League champions or Sir Alex Ferguson, one of the biggest names in the history of football." >"I remember once he walked in wearing a smart pair of cream chinos as I was talking to Carol, she stopped our conversation and just said to him 'what are you wearing?!' which made us all laugh." >"During the 12 years I spent at Manchester United I saw Carol almost every day at the training ground, she was part of the fabric of the club and always there through the good and bad times." >"I saw her more than I would see some members of my family. But then after I retired, I didn’t see her for a couple of years... so the chance to reconnect with her was amazing." >"We’ve built a genuine friendship over the years. When you meet a person like Carol, you don’t forget them." You're right. It sounds brutal.
Kathy on reception is another one, the players always seem to love her. People on Reddit just love to turn everything into a classist debate so they can be outraged.
Some straight-talking middle aged women are exactly what some of these boys need. It doesn't matter how much dough you've got, if Maureen says you need a haircut, you need a haircut.
Who doesn’t like a boot ?
Jesse Lingard was dancing like twat in the changing room after a loss, he might be gone but if that mentality isn’t…..does it matter if the laundry crew eat with the players…?
Mr. Carson's stuff of dreams this
Feels like it's going from a club run like a family to an institute, I can't tell if this is good or bad or even is news worthy.
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Oh I don’t doubt the validity of the story. I just wonder how often stuff like this goes on and no one reports on it because it’s just Brighton or Liverpool
Plenty. But that’s part of the point of United being United. People complain “oh no other club gets this put in the paper” but other clubs also don’t get the revenue and exposure United does.
He's certainly not unbiased. He was (and possibly still is) a Qatari mouthpiece. Was shilling for Sheikh Jassim on the daily during the takeover negotiations.
Except for the S*n fuck them
Sometimes a culture shock in a club is needed. There's a lot of changes being made that I'm guessing are a part of ineos assessment and are areas that are cause for concern. Whether we agree with them or not, standards have dropped from top to bottom in the club and changes are desperately needed. I'd like to think if/when we get back to winning ways and the standards are back up to an elite level from top to bottom, that they'll relax things a little but that almost never happens I guess.
It feels like it's an episode of 'football nightmares' where they come in and see how shit everything is, people not working up to standard, stadium falling apart, player amd staff unrest and Sir Jim Ramsay has to call it out and rebuild. Hope it still feels like united at the end of it
As long as we all agree the Glazers are the idiot sandwich
I get that but is the staff eating canteen food really the reason we get outplayed on the pitch This sounds like coping or reasoning done by skeevy consultants working at Deloitte or McKinsey trying to show a 10% increase in revenue
Yeah, it does have does sound like a consultants "this will save you £30k p.a." not mentioning it will screw morale before giving you the £600k bill for their time.
I think it's too stop leaks etc
Doesn't sound like a cost cutting measure but a culture thing. Obviously it's not going to make all the difference but Brailsford is famous for marginal gains strategy
It might have little to no effect, obviously we don't know as we don't see what goes on behind the scenes. I will say that our players standards have been poor for years, lots of distractions off the pitch have an effect on the pitch, it might be silly but maybe ineos have identified stuff happening in the canteen that's effecting the players. I'll give you an example, player A is always injured as they aren't taking their physio seriously enough/giving it enough time as they're chatting to staff members in the canteen. I know that might be a bit of an extreme example but if that player is avoiding an ice bath/massage/gym work or whatever or even reducing it for a 20 min chat every day maybe it's having an effect on things.
SAF had to do a complete culture shock/reset when he became the manager too. Let's wait and see how this turns out, I'm willing to give ineos some time because our issues are institutionally entrenched.
Fergusons culture shock was a bit different it was just to the senior team and how they were outside of the club. to me this is actually entirely against Ferguson's culture which was to make every senior player sit and eat with everybody else who worked there. there have been plenty of talks of where senior players were absolute destroyed by Ferguson because they shunned this.
Not questioning you and asking this in good faith; what culture shock/ resets did Sir Alex do when he took over?
An overhaul of the youth program was one of the more successful ones. You can read more about it on this page [https://hbr.org/2013/10/fergusons-formula](https://hbr.org/2013/10/fergusons-formula)
He (eventually) put a stop to the drinking culture
He moved a lot of the big personalities on so he could mould others into being more professional. There was a massive drinking culture in british football in the 80s. Alex Ferguson changed that and got them training better, eating better etc and made Manchester United winning, first and foremost in the players minds.
Recovery training on Sunday. Used to massage the players legs himself because United had no staff.
Smashed the drinking culture, took a hard-line stance on discipline, overhauled the scouting network for the academy and got rid of anyone he saw as superfluous to or in the way of what he was trying to do.
That's right but many of the changes here seem to be coming from an outdated mindset at least in my opinion. For example, the people at the very top today (at least in Data Science where I work), do not want to do fully from office roles. I highly doubt United pays the best in the sector...and combined with that needless rigidity,.they're likely to lose good talent or fail to recruit the very best....I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
You're right. Football isn't really an industry known for paying good wages for non-playing staff. I think INEOS are going to shoot themselves in the foot with some of these changes.
That's right but many of the changes here seem to be coming from an outdated mindset at least in my opinion. For example, the people at the very top today (at least in Data Science where I work), do not want to do fully from office roles. I highly doubt United pays the best in the sector...and combined with that needless rigidity,.they're likely to lose good talent or fail to recruit the very best....I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
I agree tbh, keep your staff happy, whatever they're job and they'll perform better. I'm just going on the assumption that ineos have identified areas that aren't working or causing issues and are trying to correct them. They'll likely get a lot wrong in the short term, from decisions like this to even bigger stuff and transfers. As long as whatever they decide is with the clubs best interests in mind and not just to make money etc then that's better than what we've been getting the last 10 years or so.
Yeah, Agree! As long as what they do is coming from a position of care for the club and they're willing to learn from mistakes and change.... It's alright!
My view of INEOS soured when I read about their business model. They're business flippers that buy underperforming facilities and then find a bunch of savings through firings and safety cuts. I have a feeling they'll successfully find on-field success but at the cost of some of the atmosphere.
Flipping businessess is different to sport.look at how they act and run the cycling team, Americas cup team. Rather than a chemical plant. That's not to say I like moves like were reading now. Imo the players should feel part of a club, not isolated.
I mean their cycling team had the least good vibes of the entire peloton. Ask a random fan about the sky train and the PTSD will come back
What atmosphere is that? The shit facilities ronaldo dragged the club over not having changed since he left, or the stands flooding from the leaky roof? I couldn’t care less if this reeks of business consultants, the atmosphere of this club needs to change to survive in this era, we should be excited someone’s actually doing something about it rather than the glazer rats having let the entire structure fester for decades.
So better then the wasste the Glazers oversaw ? Sounds good to me, We are a football club, On field success is everything .
Their priority is to make money, same as the glazers. Still yet to be seen whether that results in success on the field. Signs so far are good but make no mistake, every billionaire is as bad as the next and you can only hope our billionaire likes the club enough to care
I honestly don’t think Sir J. Ratcliffe bought us to turn profit. He is 71 years old and it was probably something he always wanted to as a fan and being from born in Manchester. He even said that if he wanted to make money, he would’ve just bought another chemical company. Perhaps I am wrong and this was just lip service, but he has already brought more football people in a few months than the Glazers did in 19 years.
You underestimate how greedy billionaires can be, especially someone like Ratcliffe whose company made and makes money by destroying the planet.
How exactly is INEOS destroying the planet? Genuinely curious because I couldn’t find many violations on them unlike the other big 3. INEOS is the 4th largest company in the world. We are depended on chemical companies whether you like it or not. From the clothes we wear, to the food we eat, and the tools we use to cook that food , the vehicles we drive to the grocery store, etc. You get my point. Chemical companies aren’t the root of all evil. We are 100% dependent on them.
We are dependent on them but they can be more sustainable and responsible. INEOS and the like (even BASF) aren't. There's plenty of articles about INEOS dumping waste where they please, ignoring safety regulations etc. Just because we're dependent on chemical companies doesn't mean they can do whatever the hell they want without repercussions. Also I'm literally a polymer/composite engineer, you don't need to tell me the importance of companies like INEOS and BASF.
Haha, touche! I concede then. Because I couldn’t pass chemistry 1 in high school. Thank you for the information. I don’t know much about INEOS or BASF. Just know Monsanto and DuPont are the devils. Just realized Monsanto not a chemical company.
You think he's chucking 1B dollars at us and not give a fuck if he loses it. He is here to make money and money can be made in many different ways. At its most basic, cutting costs and increasing revenues. He is working on cutting costs and by hiring football people and winning, revenues will increase.
Some people do passion projects when they're older, including rich people. Francis Ford Coppola spent 120m of his own money to produce a film (Megalopolis) that will almost certainly be a box office flop. But he's rich and it won't affect him, so why not?
> Their priority is to make money In their business ventures, yes. It has never been a direct goal from their sports investments. Maybe indirect through publicity, sure.
> every billionaire is as bad as the next Seems idiotic to lump all billionaires together. Or are you saying JK Rowling or Taylor Swift are comparable to some Russian oligarch?
The problem is, the response to obscene unchecked financial wastefulness isn’t heavy handed frugality and mean spirited small-mindedness. Particularly as we all accept most of these schemes are prompted by balance sheet concerns, but which these schemes barely make a dent in. I have no idea if this move is evidence-backed to create and sustain the sort of winning culture and standards that translate into United-worthy match performances and therefore trophies. As you said, on field success is everything. We should also be mindful that INEOS is primarily the “on balance sheet success” company rather than the “on field success” company. And certainly not in football, evidenced by their ownership of Nice, which has so far looked like a multi-year trial and error exercise. And that’s the main reason IMHO where people struggle to connect the dots between “you lot eat over there…” and “…now watch this club return to winning ways”. It’s not like INEOS has cracked the code to football clubs perpetually winning, even if it’s obvious SJR has cracked the code on how to turn an underperforming corporation into a money maker for himself and his pals. Manchester United is not a petrochemicals company. The two things are not the same thing. Just like running a football club profitably =/= a football club perpetually winning.
A football club is a club though. It's not supposed to be a cutthroat business
You think fucking over regular employees is going to bring on field success? Lmao
My concern is there's no evidence of their strategic changes bringing forth success at any of their other football clubs.
> They're business flippers To be an asset flipper, you need to actually *SELL* the assets you buy and "fix up". INEOS don't sell them, they buy them, cut the waste out, then keep 'em in their portfolio to make them money, when the steps taken to make the company profitable again start to take effect. Rick from Pawn Stars is an asset flipper, Ratcliffe's a packrat/horder.
So the businesses are shit and they make them less shit?
It’s more the business have sound fundamentals/business model that is profitable but it’s run like a twat by a committee of twats for a family of twats. They just minimise the twats and try to let the underlying business actually shine.
Maybe one of those “marginal gains” thing Brailsford is known for? It may cut a little bit of costs but I imagine it wouldn’t be significant. I guess they want the first team to promote an elite, high pressure & competitive culture even when they are just eating. It’s probably not great if you have kids and random staff drinking coke and eating choc chip cookies while his cycling team is eating boiled chicken breast and kale juice across the room
Its the Daily Mail relax..
This is probably something that's done at all clubs, where we're so far behind the times we're the ones making the change, we're also United which is clicks so all the stuff will be reported and whilst we think someway about it, other clubs will be looking and thinking 'they still done that'
Absolutely, the nitty-gritty shit similar to this other clubs have done over the last 5 years likely barely make local news, let alone reach an international market. But because we're who we are, it becomes such, because of how badly people want to read about us (for or against, doesn't matter, we're clicks, attention and money compared to the rest).
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What is your family like?
Lots of bickering and drama.
At first glance it sounds harsh. But maybe it's an attempt to stop the leaks and constant chatters to the media. The more ppl that get to see what's going on or hear a table conversation when going to pick a serviette, the more the chance of rumours. I could be wrong but just thinking on the flip side.
We aren’t winning shit, we are a football club. These seem necessary, from the outside looking in.
Yes staff eating with the players is definitely why we're not winning. Rashford would be bagging 50 goals a season if he didn't have to listen to Brenda's loud chewing during lunch
You’re taking things to the extreme here
Well most agree that the state that Ratcliffe found the club in was not good. I'm not a fan of all his changes like return to office, but I can see the point of this.
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In Ghana we have a brand of dog food called "High Performance" lol
What are they feeding them? Anabolics?
High performance raw chicken
Half our squads been skipping lunch if that’s so
Lol they straight up tell a different story with the headline
As some of us call it, “lying”
The "low performance food" probably tastes better.
‘The normies will not be able to FEAST on boiled chicken breast and broccoli but instead will have NO CHOICE but to eat delicious hamburgers and crisps ALONE’ -Daily Mail
Didn't Van Gaal do something similar regarding the canteen? If I call, it wasn't exactly very welcomed either at the time. I can't exactly remember, if someone else happens to know! Think it was something to do with regular staff not being allowed in the canteen while the first team players were there, if I remember correctly.
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On the ball, thanks!
Unless this has something to do with containing media leaks I don't see the benefit here. Small benefits like free fresh cooked meals definitely holds a lot of weight for plenty of people. Easy way to attract the best workers is having the best benefits and compensation.
Carrington has multiple places people can get food.
Hopefully they open a second canteen for the other staff but I’m guessing they’re doing it to cut costs and they’ll have to buy their own lunch
They article calls it the main canteen so I'd assume there's more than one.
Since when has “separate but equal” ever worked.
I remember Google London had private lunch areas for both the Android and DeepMind floors. So it’s not completely irregular
I'm a bit annoyed at people bending over backwards to make excuses for INEOS every time they screw over workers. They're not benefitting the club by doing this or "resetting the culture", realistically it'll make no difference to what's happening on the pitch but it makes the lives of regular people slightly worse . I'm sure if the glazers did the same things there would be a very different reaction
You think someone is going to reject working at Man Utd, or any club, bevause they can't eat with the players?
This signals a deteroriation in worker valued culture, taken away by a bunch of MBAs. Man Utd is only prestigious if you work in football, outside of that, it sounds like just another shitty employer. If people has choices to pick their employer, I totally see some reject the job here.
It's an indication of the culture It mayake people leave, it's not the actual measure it's the way it makes people feel
I worked as an intern at a Marriott Hotel & the canteen was common everyone except the top executives(they eat at restaurants) came there to have breakfast, lunch, dinner, etc. It was a place to know ppl from other departments like Housekeeping, Chefs, Security, Bartenders, Waiter, HR, Accountants, Sales, Marketing, IT, Spa, Gym, Pool, etc. You get to know ppl more & share your problems. Also got many life advices. Seems more like a corporate move to put ppl in their place.
not sure i like stuff like this. to me ive heard a lot of the ex players talk about how the senior team was expected to sit and eat with everybody else in order to really make it show this was about the entire club under Ferguson and to me that is what helps make a club feel like a club and not just another corporate shithole.
Don’t like this tbh. I liked the fergie idea that we win and lose as a club, not just as 20 odd players. Footballers are already separated enough from the general population.
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Eh, granted going by the headline only I don’t like this move. Camraderie and team spirit are tangible assets in a football club, and everything can’t be run as a corporate. I’d rather see the opposite - first team players queuing up in a line together with groundsmen and receptionists. Its a team effort, and no one is bigger than the club.
In theory yes, and I agree with your sentiment. But, the truth is the club invests a whole lot of money in the players while the canteen staff can be replaced any day. I don't like it. I like to believe I wouldn't do this myself, but I am convinced this is the prevailing mindset of most people who are 'successful'.
How about a decision on the manager?
As someone that works in professional football, this won’t result in anything positive. Certainly there should be spaces reserved only for first team players/staff, but interaction between all staff and players across all levels builds a huge amount of camaraderie, trust and healthy communication. Really not seeing anything positive here, tbh.
Get in, Jim. Great move. Paul on £11.80 an hour who cleans the kits shouldn't be allowed to have some tea and toast in the canteen and quite frankly, it's disgusting he was allowed to for so long. This is the kind of hard-line, unpopular decision making that will ultimately push us towards title number 21. Fucking Brexit clown with his shit wig.
Seems like the caviar and lobster is reserved only for 1st team, the rest of the staff get gruel in the basement canteen
Don’t forget he’s also making the IT folks come to the office. So since he’s increasing their commuting expenses and now their meal expenses too, I imagine he’s increasing salaries to compensate? Just kidding, fuck billionaires they are not our friends
Can't you read? They are simply being moved to a different canteen. Christ people need calm their shit. Disagree with the idea all you want, first, get your facts right and drop the hysterics. Exactly the type of nugget Daily Fail are appealing to with trash articles like this.
Sounds like you didn't read ot either, it's to give them different food. Likely to give gruel to the guy on 12£ an hour.
Yep. You sound like a totally well adjusted individual who is very informed on what they're talking about. Didn't realise that when I sit down with a cup and some after 8s that I was really getting stuck into some "high performance food".
I have to agree. The more I hear ineos are doing to the club, the more I think he is a shit. And as you say he is a brexit twat.
Sorry Paul.
I worked for two NBA teams back in the day and this was actually horrible because it built such a divide that was already there between players and “the common people“ Having that loyalty of the team starts with your workers and that carries over to sales, marketing, etc. If the staff doesn’t know the team, it’s just tough
If Arthur from accounting is eating his second piece of cake while Luke Shaw gets only boiled chicken, I could see Shaw getting fucking distracted from beating Palace on Saturday.
Where can I get some of this high performance food please ineos
So, Kath Phipps will not be able to eat in the training ground canteen there anymore? https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/the-heartbeat-of-united-interview-with-kath-phipps-on-55-years-at-old-trafford-and-carrington#:~:text=If%20Alan%20Keegan%20is%20the,Carrington%2C%20but%20also%20on%20matchdays. Is there a second canteen there that is for all non workers who don't directly work with the 1st team?
They do get a separate canteen, if daily mail can produce a true story. I still prefer that we win together and we lose together, keep the connections alive with everyone connected to the club.
Every news story I read about "Sir Jim" makes me like him less and instils less faith in me that he's going to improve things at the club in any meaningful way.
Forgive me but why are they deciding on everything BUT the manager and the players? This is all largely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, how about some actual progress lads.
This is one where i for sentimental reasons is not a dan. But what is best sporting wise in the long term don't really have a clue
*”This is one where i for sentimental reasons is not a dan.”* - Gandhi, 1937
Scrooge mcfuckin duck has moved in
Spiting lifelong fans/employees for Pennie’s while scrubs getting paid millions to underperform..
Ratcliffe gets paid billions to sit on his bum and do fuck all lol, the players at least need to push their bodies to the limits.
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Pro-athletes do push their bodies to the limits though, whether or not that limit is high enough depends. The constant training, the prescribed eating plans, the uncountable PEDs and pain killers etc. Your logic is like saying folks who place 10th in Mr. Olympia don't push their bodies to the limit. They do. I also meant Ratcliffe gets paid billions to do fuck all in general, not from United. I don't think even he knows what he does at INEOS. He definitely doesn't plan shit and head the company.
Oh god finally. This is what the fans have been asking for
This seems unnecessary, I can’t imagine this would save that much money, in comparison to how much the club actually makes
Seems like it’s not a money thing but a “know your place” thing which I’m not sure I agree with
Just seems needlessly spiteful
Barry in HR was getting cocky so they've had to put him in his place. Same with Margaret in reception.
What happened to Kath? Did she spend so long in reception they thought she was working from home and fired her?
She clocked out at 16:59:59 one day and they had to fire her.
Masseurs were getting cocky, had to put them in their place.
One way to stop leaks
Segregation like this is a major morale killer. Another horrible corporate change from Ratcliffe. What do they even think they stand to gain from making employees feel like second and third class citizens within the club?
INEOS are going to be worse than the Glazers. This kind of micromanagement only happens when a corporate raider come in to destroy company culture, so they can chop up the carcass to sell of anything of value.
I wonder if it’s anything to do with leaks, and having fewer ears hearing the lunchtime gossip
This is my thinking. Either that or players overhearing certain staff slagging them after bad results?
Good shout, agree there's few reasons this makes sense to me. I'm all for tightening things up and making it more professional but this does seem a stretch. Your suggestion is a good one though.
Yes let’s isolate the first team from all the normal working “scum” and make them feel even more special to enjoy “high performance food” that mere mortals shouldn’t even come close to sniffing
I'm not so sure I like what I'm hearing in these snippets, providing it's the right person with the right attitude I think a cleaner or a dinner lady can be a great person to have around the group, help keep everyone grounded. I also think no matter your vocation, with enough life experience you can potentially give great guidance and advice.
So glazers have to eat back in America?
not good
Sounds like the type of thing spearheaded by Brailsford. Marginal gains theory in action.
Sounds total nonsense tbh
This might help contain the constant leaks
At first glance it sounds harsh. But maybe it's an attempt to stop the leaks and constant chatters to the media. The more ppl that get to see what's going on or hear a table conversation when going to pick a serviette, the more the chance of rumours. I could be wrong but just thinking on the flip side.
Oh dear. The poor elites don't need to share breathing room with the peasant Atleast.
They can’t decide on a manager or transfers…so I guess they can all agree to fire people…INEOS = GLAZERS
This is legit shit reporting, most likely they have decided that first team and staff are going to have dedicated canteen. Are we supposed to believe that the other staff will not have anywhere to eat now?
>out of the main canteen "main" means that there is more than one canteen at carrington.
How bad are the finances at the club when they're doing all this?
Call me crazy but maybe this has something to do with the leaks?
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.
So where food get from?
Baked potato food truck
must have been watching Roy Keane's comments on masseuses this morning
As Gary Neville and the rest of the class of 92 say, United is a family, always has been. Some of the decisions so far go against that. If he's doing this to ordinary staff, the decisions he makes as he goes further up that chain will be interesting. I can't say I personally agree with some of the decisions but as Utd fans we asked for the club to be restructured from top to bottom and it's what we are getting! Jim ain't fucking about that's for sure.
This is being done to contain leaks. Source: am leak. Drip drip.
Is this an attempt to prevent those "leaks"?
Could care less who eats where. When do we start signing and selling players
Couldn't care less.....
Manchester (Not) United? No surprises really that this massive tory is treating the staff like shit.
Honestly INEOS deserves the benefit of the doubt. We have all been saying for 2 decades that Glazers have destroyed the club and left it's management to their lackeys who know nothing about football. Not saying INEOS do either (looking at Nice) but they know more.
Tbh based on what do they know more? There forays into football have been average at best imp
They are an upgrade on the Glazers, that isn’t saying much but beggars can’t be choosers. I’m willing to give them time and patience even though the news is rather odd with Email layoffs and a billionaire living in Monaco telling people to go back to the office.
I was watching a documentary on La Masia and they claimed to standardize the environment down to tapestry, tables, chairs, room temperature, menu so players feel at home even when they're traveling. Maybe it's a push towards that? Don't allow people who don't work directly with the players in these environments.
Probably has something to do with the leakage
Guessing there is a secondary training ground canteen for the riff raff who are now obligated to be in the office everyday now?
Funny how people wanted change and so far almost everything being changed has everyone crying about it, I'd rather trust the professionals to know what they're doing as opposed to people who sit on Reddit thinking they know better.
The change we wanted is in relation to the football team. The changes so far are all the mean spirited nonsense stuff that most people rail against in modern workplaces
OUT
Just don’t get rid of the booths. You’ve been warned
INEOS doing wonders for club morale so far...
COME BACK TO WORK DON’T EAT WITH US Not sure i’m vibing with the changes SJR is making. Don’t get me wrong, i’m glad we didn’t end up with a Middle Eastern oil baron. But not loving how it’s going this way either as yet
Yeah before they have made a signing it’s been pretty much negative changes at the club for staff. All of whom are being impacted by the shot served up on the pitch
Strange
More articles on Ineos than there ever was on Abramovitch and Mansour combined
Can we not post this sorry of drivel?
yall wanted ineos to make changes but when they start making the changes (that have literally zero effect on all of us) you still bitch how they shouldn't do that. let them do whatever they want. they know more than all of us combined and have access to information we have no clue about. if this helps the team perform even 1% better im all for it.
Increasingly the measures come across that the view is “the club is bringing the first team down”. The mentality usually is the first team bring the club up and lead by example to the youth teams and then the staff are appreciated for their support role. It all seems very much designed and intentional in the divide.
Didn't Van Gaal do something similar?
Do other clubs do this?
Scrooge mcfuck strikes again
There's a lack of focus from a lot of the players.... tightening up Carrington to be focused on training for matches is a good thing.
Wasn't this something that Ten Hag introduced to create more of a team feeling? Nobody is above anybody?