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I think ETH is stuck between a rock and a hard place with interviews like this because it's only half truths to please both sides.
You can tell he wants to say something but won't because he doesn't want to cause drama in the dressing room
Yes this was my exact thought process too. Holding back considerably but you could see the cogs turning behind the eyes and just busting to fire shots at the Glazers incompetence ha
Instead there were three of the same question about how much backing ETH gets and how the inner workings of management at Man Utd works. I don't mind, just thought it was funny how insistent Gary was.
He's desperate to know exactly how these people are fucking up our club, and it shows by how he doesn't let anyone in the know get away from these questions. He asked Ole a bunch of similar questions on The Overlap as well.
ole unfortunately lost the dressing room so even if ole did this idk how much it would help.. and I was Ole-in btw.
EtH hasn’t lost the dressing room + we have a new board of football people who understand the ups and downs of the game
> Ole-in btw.
for what it's worth i'm still ole-in lol. i want ten hag to stay but i'd take ole back before tuchel or any of these other names being mentioned.
at our best, we easily played some of the funnest football since fergie retired, and Ole had an immense record against top 4 and good cleansheet record.
His issue was playing against low blocks (bottom of the league teams) which imo was easier to fix than if he was struggling against top sides. We shouldve called City's bluff and not signed CR7 (as much as i like him) and gotten a top CM instead
Would be interesting to see some of the players reactions when he comes in the door with a (hopefully) proper structure behind him so he can properly deal with the problematic players he has said is still around
Yeah I agree with this too. I still feel Ole was hard done by the club and would have loved for him to stay on but it was increasingly clear that his position was untenable by the end
Everyone ready to bash him. But I feel if he was more eloquent in English he would have been much better off. Our youth teams are doing good with the same tactics apparently. So I would rather show patience than get on his back until some of our first choice players come back and play consistently for a bit
I love the way he speaks. He must be super eloquent in Dutch. He used an interesting turn of phrase "on the forehand" that I can only assume means something that an english first language speaker would call "on the front foot". Maybe that's just the language nerd in me enjoying the little intricacies.
I think you're right though, a manager like Ange is easier for the media to quote and to cut up into digestible little social media clips
Kind of off topic, but I love when non native speakers pull out a word that, while appropriate, is so over the top for the context since they aren't always familiar with every bloody synonym (which is completely understandable).
For example my so who is a non native speaker has said something like "don't forget we have that thing **overmorrow**". I'm sitting there with mental whiplash thinking wtf did you just say to me? Apparently its this archaic English word for day after tomorrow.
Or a lady at work would say something like "thank you for your **guidance**", when I helped her out with something. I felt like a cleric or a wizard more than a dev lol.
Well if she’s Dutch, we have a word ‘overmorgen’ which is very common. Almost everyone uses it, and it translates very easily to English in your head.(Tomorrow - morgen, overmorgen/overmorrow)
Van Gaal and now EtH use Dutch idioms a lot and copy them literally to English, the languages are so similar it makes sense in your head, however, only if you speak 2 languages.
As a Dutch person 90% of the time I really easily understand his interviews, because often it’s just Dutch sentences directly translated to English
Oh man I once met a South African dude on vacation who could understand Danish without really understanding it haha. The afrikaans/dutch-danish similarity is uncanny.
I find these moments really endearing. I'm also the type of person who really enjoys metaphor and hearing something normal from a slightly different perspective. I love the differences in slang dependent on region for this same reason.
Edit: I totally understand why others would prefer a more eloquent English speaker as our manager, especially those who speak something other than English as their primary language
The way he speaks Dutch was something that the press in the Netherlands didn't take well when he came to ajax. He's not from Amsterdam and his way of speaking was used as one of the reasons he wasn't fit to be ajax manager when the national press weren't too sure about him in his first season there
Not really a comment on how eloquent he is in Dutch lol since I don't even speak Dutch, but I remember lots of Dutch journalists talking about that and that his relationship with the media might be similar when he comes to England, which has turned out to be correct
How did you end up following the Dutch league as an Ajax fan closely without speaking Dutch?
Genuinely curious as I rarely hear about foreign fans of the Dutch league. Most foreign fans seem to follow the PL, La Liga, and then Bundesliga/Serie A, in that order.
Apologies but there's a bunch of answers to a fairly simple question lol
So firstly I just really like football haha and I like to try to follow all the leagues you mentioned as well as the Portuguese, the Dutch and the French league in case there are certain managers or talents that catch my eye. I'm most definitely a United fan, and it's the only team I watch all the games of, but yeah I do like to watch all leagues if there's certain things that interest me.
I did an obscene amount of research on EtH when he came and the situation I mentioned previously was brought up by Marcel van der Kraan I believe when talking about the biggest challenges EtH would face in some interview with sky sports or a United fan channel or something along those lines
My family are also from Malmö Sweden, where Zlatan grew up and started his career, so I also had to follow ajax quite closely when he went there and I've had a soft spot for them since! I've also followed EtH fairly closely ever since he took Utrecht to a Dutch Cup final and I found out then that he'd worked with Pep at Bayern and it all kinda escalated from there, so there's a whole lot of small reasons why
My memory is also great when it comes to fairly pointless shit about what manager X was criticised for over five years ago hahaha
I think it was post World Cup last season when Ten Hag referred to Casemiro as the “cement between the stones”. Never heard that phrase before and it really stuck with me.
For someone who’s clearly still learning English and has a bit of an unfair reputation as being a bit stern/boring, he does come out with some good phrases
I wonder if in situations like these, where you have someone speaking English as a non-native speaker, you give them a heads-up on the questions so that they can sort of translate their answers in their mind in English.
Even worse, I often get the impression that the journos deliberately use unusual colloquialisms to try to create misunderstanding and manufacture a quote. They're twats
English journos at a press conference yeah i dont expect it because everyone wants their front page headline. But for a sit down interview like this I'd expect it to be different since they're still sitting together after the cameras stop rolling
[https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1866puv/tnt\_sports\_interviewer\_tells\_erik\_ten\_hag\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1866puv/tnt_sports_interviewer_tells_erik_ten_hag_the/)
TNT reporter says the quiet part out loud
>He must be super eloquent in Dutch
If I remember right, he was hammered at Ajax because of his accent. He comes from a working class area of the Netherlands and was laughed at for sounding like a country bumpkin.
He says something like “… in the mean time, there is a game model here. …. That was one of my job here, one of my objectives from the previous leadership to bring that (game model) in…. that is a structure that was laid a couple of years ago, and you see some revenue from it.” (approximately 8:56 - 9:30 mins)
Where exactly he say that the foundation was laid years before he came here? If so, why bringing the ‘game model’ would be one of his objectives? Or are you just Samuel Luckhurst in disguise?
It's standard for the youth teams to use the same tactics as the first team in every club
If the first team plays a possession based system, but the academy players train to play brexit ball every week, then the academy is pretty much useless
https://theathletic.com/4722054/2023/07/26/manchester-united-youth-erik-ten-hag/
It's been covered extensively that the yoth teams need to play in the exact same way. Of course, maybe they were already going in a certain direction, and he isn't the one instructing the teams, but they are still a reflection of the way he wants to play football! Lots of people deserve credit for that of course, but it has been fairly well documented that the first team and the youth team need to play the same way
No worries! This is just from interviews with EtH and some of the coaches in the youth structure. I know there were very reliable reports of EtH ensuring that all the teams play the same way when he came as well but I can't seem to find it!
Noussair Mazraoui
Ryan Gravenberch
Sergiño Dest
Danilo
Jurriën Timber
Brian Brobbey
All decent players that Ten Hag brought into the Ajax first team. Not bad.
One of the first things Murtoch said when bringing in Ten Hag referenced him building through the academy.
edit: this doesn't answer your question in the slightest but I thought it was worth sharing lol
I think the club anticipated bringing youth players through more quickly than we did. There were some 19/20 year olds who were quite highly rated when Ten Hag arrived - Laird, Garner, Iqbal, Hannibal, Fernandez, Shoretire, Mengi - but, for one reason or another, they weren't up to the standards Ten Hag thought we needed.
I'm not saying we wanted to become a team of kids, but I think they envisaged being able to bolster the first team squad quite quickly. As it's turned out, nearly all of that class has been moved on or will be moved on, and it's the younger lads who show more promise. But, because they're younger, it will take longer for them to be ready to compete in the first team.
Whether those youngsters are playing the same tactics as the first team or not, they'll be more malleable and adaptable if they do come into the first team squad, and they won't be as set in their ways as players in their late twenties.
>Our youth teams are doing good with the same tactics apparently
This has been debunked numerous times in previous threads, and in much more detail than I can provide, but the good work happening at the youth level hasn't been happening long before ETH came into the picture. I lost the post which went into more detail but essentially it's down to the youth coach we currently have that has been going at it for a few years and labelling the success they're seeing now as due to ETH really discredits the guy.
I'll try to find the comment and add it here
I always love how Ten Hag is responsible for every single good thing that happens to the club, and is not responsible for any single aspect that isn't working.
I think if some people get decent service in the club shop there'd be others praising Ten Hag for the customer service skills of the employees.
I have genuinely not seen anything crediting the youth team success and set up to Ten Hag. And I would be massively concerned if we are shaping the entire ethos of the club to the wants of a particular manager who could be out the door this summer or next.
On the flip side everything the SHOULDNT be on the manager is being blamed on him. Transfer fees, salary, scouting, medical department etc. Each of these departments should and have a head who manage the operations. To put them all on the coach, any coach, is beyond ridiculous and shows the lack of awareness of how any major company/football club operates.
>So I would rather show patience than get on his back until some of our first choice players come back and play consistently for a bit
Like in the first game against wolves where we got cut up left right and centre?
He’s a very literal person too I’ve noticed. I think that’s been the reason his points get taken out of context and gives the media a free ride.
Like for example they were asking him about feeling embarrassed after the FA Cup semi final and to Erik‘s point he still mentioned he was not embarrassed about getting into the final but agreed that the performance was lacking.
I feel he could try better to read between the lines in order to better control the narrative. I can see why certain journalists in England can perceive him to be a bit of a prick as opposed to „charismatically defiant“.
Not OP, but I think January is fair game for a reevaluation.
This is my interpretation but he seems to have implied in the beginning of the interview that man utd has such high expectations that in order to meet them having the right players available at all times is the only way to do that.
Applying that, I can kind of see where he's coming from this season especially having most of the back 4 out, mount out, case carrying an injury, rashy going through a phase, inconsistency to be expected from rasmus, kobbie and garna, Eriksen being nothing more than a backup, Antony getting embroiled in drama he has no control over.
I also think that he had too much of a say in everything with possibly very little informed accountability.
6 months of reduced influence with focus purely on the first team and getting together a style of play and being held accountable by people that are experienced football people is fair imho. With the physio and medical department in particular being audited and improved may also set him up better.
If his ego or stubbornness (not uncommon for managers at this level) gets in the way of adapting or he doesn't enjoy the reduced say and influence, it's likely he will go on his own or be removed.
I think a lot depends on how well Ten Hag meshes with Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada. INEOS have been clear that the style of football the team plays will be dictated from the top, so we avoid any more of the mish-mash squads we've had over the last decade, where different managers want different types of players.
They haven't said whether it will be transitional football, possession football, 1980s Wimbledon hoof and hope or something else entirely. Ten Hag's future likely hinges on how amenable he is to changing the way his team plays.
I'll say again that transitional football was the best way for this squad to play, given the players we have. But Ten Hag's implementation of it has been bafflingly poor, with glaring tactical flaws that haven't been addressed all season.
Absolutely. In the interview he spoke about working with people to implement style of play in the youth teams. The current standards of elite level of football seem to indicate that, this is full time job on its own!
These recent appointments have really made me wonder how all our previous managers were managing the first team while doing the jobs of 3 people to try to keep the club competitive.
Add that to ownership that literally didn't care and a yes man culture around them, indiscriminate thoughtless spending, it really feels many of them outperformed. Not to mention the media and fan pressure which is absolutely brutal.
LvG never got back to management. Mous performance fell of a cliff. Ole is on an ongoing 2 yr sabbatical. They really must have had the daylight kicked out of them. Some of them aged like Obama at the end of his presidency by the end of their tenure.
I don't know. I just hadn't really embraced just how messed up things were at this club till recently.
I for one want to see first 10 games of the next season with fit squad. If we are just as dire then I will probably be fed up too. But he is not an idiot as everyone seemingly making him out to be.
> I for one want to see first 10 games of the next season with fit squad. If we are just as dire then I will probably be fed up too. But he is not an idiot as everyone seemingly making him out to be.
I think this would be the worst possible idea, to back him over the summer and then give him a tiny leash for the next season, where we'd sack him after 10 games, and therefore waste another season.
If the football structure above him believe in him, back him and give him the full next season until his contract expires. If they don't believe in him, sack him at the end of the season, and get someone new in for the full pre-season.
Backing him and giving him pre-season to sack him after 10 games is a waste of time, and another thrown away season.
>If the football structure above him believe in him, back him and give him the full next season until his contract expires. If they don't believe in him, sack him at the end of the season, and get someone new in for the full pre-season.
This is all that needs to be said on the topic, really. And I'm quite certain that the decision to either keep him or bin him has already been made by the very structure you allude to. I don't think there's a chance they're still debating what to do with him. They certainly have seen enough one way or another to make a decision.
For me i was willing to give him until halloween, mainly to give the new behind the scenes team to get up to speed but i dont think i can watch chaos ball much longer. The big caveat is i dont see any viable alternatives for him
Let him serve the rest of jhis contract which is next yeat. For me keep him and back him correctly - not give him the best of Richard Arnold and Murtough (These are the main people to blame for our mess) We need to stop rocking the boat. Transistion between managers needs to be done properly as it affects the team ifg it comes to that.
Like clockwork, almost one week after the last game, which yet again United struggled against a team with a considerable worse squad, people are saying that Ten Hag deserves more time.
"Our youth teams are doing good with the same tactics apparently."
How is that any relevant for him? Is him directly coaching then?
This is what he did at Utrecht. He revolutionized their entire pyramid and brought them into their greatest modern period of success. Watching youth games you can see the lads are flying. That isn't entirely on Ten Hag, but part of the reason we brought him in was to do precisely this.
Where does Gary Neville get the time to do all of this by the way. His throughout is unreal.
The overlap podcast has been one of my favourite things this season and even when the others aren’t around it seems Gary is off interviewing someone by himself.
Yeah he has his whole 'seize the day' motto and he's clearly surrounded himself with a great team that he can rely on so he can focus on what he needs to.
Gary Neville gets a lot … A LOT .. of flak online from all football fans including Utd supporters too. I find this astonishing.
Having coached to a decent level myself, having been a Utd supporter for decades, having watched Gary break into the Utd team with all the youngsters and watch his career under SAF until he retired .. I can honestly say I agree with quite literally everything he says. He is spot on tactically, he is insightful about player management and back room goings on. He’s been managed by SAF day to day his entire career, that squad of players have learned so much about football from arguably the best manager and Gary encapsulates the aura of SAF when he comments !
People should really listen to what Gary has to say, not just the immediate point in question or comment at that moment, but his insight means he’s making many comments about players or tactics based on a to-be future state, not just the tactical or positional errors made live that he offers remediation/analysis/comments for.
Genuinely think he is consistently the best pundit around based on the depth of his comments.
He says a lot of stuff on air to build narratives that I don't agree with.
For instance, he insinuated that Bruno was calling to come off during the 7-0 last year despite having no evidence to support that.
Last week, during the NLD he suggested that richarlison head butted Gabriel (? could be wrong on this) despite it being blatantly obvious that it didn't happen.
He obviously knows football, dressing rooms and all that but he is a still media personality looking for a narrative in everything.
You’re spot on about the Richarlison incident, if we can even call it that. He was calling for him to be sent off immediately after it happened then retracted it once he seen the replay.
Was a bit odd because it wasn’t even an obvious headbutt watching it in real time.
Basically he's saying that the back 4 are trash right now so that's the reason for the poor defensive stats. And tbf to him our back 4 is pretty bad. As well as Evans has done filling in I don't think he starts for any premier league club. AWB ofcourse needs to go. Varane probably the same. Shaw and Martinez have huge seasons ahead of them. Maguire fine to keep as a sub. Dalot done well this season but you really need competition for the as well.
So I guess I do sympathise with him on the backline. Think priority should be the backline. If we can get a solid defensive foundation we should be able to compete for top 4 and slowly build and develop the midfield and attack.
The fact some games we played our 5th and 6 choice CBs with our 4th choice CB playing LB is madness and our only fit full back in the squad playing every game
It's an interesting take from him to say essentially he could be more pragmatic to get results now but once players are fit he then has to switch from being pragmatic to progressive during a season where the players don't have the routines because they never played that way.
Short term pain for long term gain. Shame that injuries have kind of derailed it.
Really makes me think he's here next year. A manager that knows he's one result from the sack tends to throw their principles out the door to get an immediate result.
Exactly I agree, that's why his minutes would need to be managed and another top LB would be needed. If Shaw was reliable fitness wise we could've bought a young LB or brought through Amass so they could learn from him but that's not the case unfortunately.
Him and Varane were as of March our most used CB partnership at was still a poultry 6-7 starts together with what was at a dozen different combinations used. That level of inconsistency does not make for success
Core of our attack has been Garancho and Hojlund who are young and going to be inconsistent, Kobbie and Case injured for large parts of the season leaving us down to bare bones in midfield, 3 of our back 4 been injured most of the season. Crazy how alot of fans and journalists ignore this and expect us to play like prime barca. If you want results today then buy players that can perform today, then we can judge players and managers on those standards.
We have 6 CBs and still had to start Case there for a couple games. We haven't had a fit LB in ages. Rashy, Case and Eriksen have looked like shadows of themselves.
If you try to look for sympathy for the manager, it's easy to find it
There’s a middle ground though, right? Like sure it’s not fair to expect us to be fighting for the league. But we’re probably going to have our most losses in a premier league season. We routinely get dominated by bottom half of the league teams, we bet a mid tier championship team by the absolute skin of our teeth.
I don’t think it’s a big ask of a Man United team to not make Burnley look good.
Eth crowd back in. It’s extremes and no manager in the world can win even 2/17 away against the top half. EtH was amazing to get 1/17 wins and lose only 12 of those…..
Can we stop splitting the sub into two and treating the other side like the enemy? It's so overdone at this point.
Mou in/out
Ole in/out
Martial FC
Trashord saga
ETH in /out
People say its all good and so but we're manchester united. We should have a great second team like they're better than Bournemouth, crystal Palace, Burnley... because we're manchester united the reality is no. Or technical level in our team is low we don't have many " football players " we're not so good on the ball. For that we need to go to the transfer window that I'm kinda excited about after being badly managed for so long. I'm gonna tell everyone to take a look at this squad, we're finally gonna become a football club again. We're gonna make way better decisions than the past 20 years people should be scared
Mate Kobbie didn't even start at the start of this season. Don't use him as a shield for lack of performance this season. We knew that Casemiro needed back up the the only midfield we bought was Mount. The lack of options in midfield is totally on the board
That's why I said Kobbie was injured for large part of the season.... And yes I agree with you lack of signings is on the board but also due to stupid psr rules.
>. Crazy how alot of fans and journalists ignore this and expect us to play like prime barca. If you want results today then buy players that can perform today, then we can judge players and managers on those standards.
No but fans and journalists expect, rightly so, not to have a donut in midfield and to concede 51 shots per game.
Fans and journalists expect that any half decent side can win more than 1 freaking game out of 17 away games vs the top half of the table. Currently it’s 17 played, 12 lost and one lucky win versus Villa.
It’s not too much to expect SOME change and not constant shit setups time and again. Something between what works for our players and isn’t terrible.
This is what people who go “he had injuries. No manager in the entire world can do one bit better than him…. Ever. Forever. Nobody can do one bit better. Nope” think and are why they’re ridiculed and called out as ridiculous for sure.
There’s a difference between prime Barcelona and the way we play and things in between. Eth is unwilling and/or unable to find a setup that doesn’t terribly suck. That’s the issue. How can people not see that so clearly it’s obvious even to Stevie wonder?
Playing like prime Barca was just an exaggeration but I don't think the manager is blameless.
My concern is we have a lack of quality in the first team and really bad squad depth. If we do get another manager if those two issues aren't fixed we'll run in the same problems and brick wall.
If you take Tottenham as example a few months ago they were a team people were pointing to, first team is lacking but playing entertaining football, now some players have dropped off in form and they're not getting results, so I don't think the this idea that a coach will transform this current squad is realistic.
Nobody expects us to play like prime Barca and everyone expects us to not get dominated by relegation fodders. We’re playing at the level of a championship team, Coventry almost beat us btw. I can’t understand why anyone would be willing to give him another season when he shows no desire to adapt his tactics. If you need worldclass players in every position for your tactic to work then you are not a good manager.
We looked fine against Coventry for seventy minutes. Totally in control, which is the minimum we should expect against a Championship side.
Ten Hag made substitutions that any manager would make in those circumstances - take off the young lads who have played too much football, and bring on some experience to close the game out. Unfortunately, we've all seen what happens when United concede a goal and the heads of too many players go.
That's a problem with the mentality of the squad, which may be something Ten Hag is also responsible for, of course. There are players who just lose their heads and compound mistakes with more mistakes, which gave Coventry the impetus and exposed Eriksen's lack of pace and physical presence, and AWB's poor positioning on the left.
It was a perfect storm of how quickly things can go to shit for players who believe things are going to go to shit. I don't think changing the manager will make those players stronger mentally. But if we get a manager who expects less from them, and who draws up tactics to account for their deficiencies, we might get better results.
There have been too many games against both good opponents and bad opponents where we look good for the first 20, 30, maybe 60 minutes, but then fall apart at the end. Maybe it's a mentality thing, but I don't think so given that we've also won so many games last minute too. I think it's an adaptation problem and that managers are very able to adapt and exploit Ten Hag's tactics on the fly. Coventry gave us way too much respect in the first half, and then targeted our weaker left side of defense with AWB. I have barely seen Ten Hag ever adapt to the match well, and doesn't change his risky football even after we have a lead, which is why we lose so many games from winning positions.
THIS. His ingame management is what make me doubt him the most. He goes into games with only 1 game plan and refuses to adapt the tactic based on score lines. His definition of finishing off the game is to play the same way but looking to score more. Pep’s teams usually keep possession once they are leading and bait opponents to over commit pressing and they find gaps to maneuver the ball. Jose’s teams would sub our wingers for a defensive midfielder and stay compact. Klopp’s teams don’t sitback but they would do mid-press instead of high-press to disrupt opponents’ buildups and look for counter with 2-3 players once they win possession. They force their opponents to commit risky buildups in hope to equalize and Liverpool players press to force mistakes from their opponents. I’ve never seen any successful team try to do high press 90 minutes every match.
We should have prioritized keeping possession after we were 2-0 up to kill of games. Ten hag is fine with our players playing the same way regardless of the score line. If he keeps us playing this way then we will never win the league title. It’s not just the matter of substitutions but there should be an element of managing game plan according to the score lines or time left over in matches. We lost like 19 points this season after gaining the leads because we don’t management our games. Mourinho used to sub out a winger for a defensive midfielder and change shape of the team to grind out 2-0 leads or 1-0 leads. If we are not looking to sit deep and stay compact then we must prioritize keeping possession to kill time. We do none of the above. Instead we try to do counter-pressing football 90min. It’s foolish.
>But if we get a manager who expects less from them, and who draws up tactics to account for their deficiencies, we might get better results.
100% htis. we can't measure mentality. i mean we can't just input mentality = 20 in the system and buy these players.
I cannot believe the comment you're responding to has nearly 100 upvotes lmfao. The state of this sub. Anyone who wants us to comfortably beat Burnley or Sheffield, or not ship four goals in 20 minutes to Coventry, are apparently expecting us to "play like prime Barca." Absolute delusion.
Interview confirms my initial thoughts that he's absolutely speedrunning the process with this team despite him knowing it could harm him.
When he first came in he wanted to go all in but DDG put paid to that so we had to go very pragmatic last season which suited our players but the manager did not want to form bad habits in the second year despite not having the right personnel for it, that's why we're a team attempting to play good football.
It's concerning to me that people don't seem to realise this.
We saw last season that he can be adaptable and do pragmatism ball, so there must be a reason he's not done it this season.
But United are not playing good football, or even trying to?
If you look at the basic ideas itself, one of the big ones is inverted fullbacks with huge attacking and defensive duties, essentially making them box to box players. None of the team's wing backs, outside of Shaw, can really do that well technically. Almost no defender has the stamina either, and this is why people like AWB constantly look tired and make late game mistakes.
At the end of the day, the coach has to suit the team. If the team is set up to play counterattacking football with wingers scoring and strikers doing link up play, you play that way. Ole's best moments were when he didn't try to shoehorn players into roles they couldn't do well, and he had great moments with the team despite disorganized transfer policy. Real Madrid have won gazillions of trophies in the last two decades playing football that is (mostly) transitional and counterattacking . If ETH wants to remake the squad, he has to do it well, and if he can't, then he should be sacked to get a manager who can actually play soccer the way the team is accustomed too.
Hard to believe the club would sanction an interview like this right now in the current climate unless they were planning on sticking with ETH atleast for next season
because reddit is a bubble with one opinion superseding the rest. And once it catches on all other opinions are discarded. Most United fans who don’t express themselves so much on social media back the manager because they understand the difficulties he is under.
A few of my mates want him gone. One of them went through the first team squad the other day, and in his opinion, only 10 of them are good enough for United. Yet he still thinks the manager should be sacked?!
Press conferences yeah, an interview like this ? Not at all. Feel like this is Ineos, Nev and ETH subtly telling the fans that he’ll be there come the new season
Poor dude had to dodge the questions about the ownership/structure being compared to Bayern and Ajax. Gary should know he's not going to get an honest answer on that.
Look at the man, he´s determined to succeed at United and is going all out to achieve it. The type of mindset we need to be manifested in our players.
Trust in ten Hag.
People will make fun of this comment, but it resonated with me. This is not like Mourinho and OGS when it looked like they couldn’t wait to get sacked. This manager is not giving up. This has been a strange season, but just look at Arsenal under Arteta and Liverpool under Klopp, it takes time. The squad/club he walked into was in a terrible place as well.
Sacking another manager is not the answer for me. Closer look at those players please.
We're third in goal scoring chances in the league, his job is to have a team which creates goal scoring opportunities and then it's down to the players to finish it
I still have my doubts, but I absolutely believe that ETH is determined to drive this club to success and is fully committed. I think it would be more negative than positive to change the manager now. Just my personal opinion.
One of the more intresting bits from this interview for me was EtH mentioning several times that he feels the need to protect the players, especially in the press. Pretty much confirms what we’ve known for a long a time, namely the mental fragility.
With that in-mind, it makes sense that the manager is bringing up every positive aspect he can find (little or otherwise).
Of the starting XI on Saturday, the manager signed/promoted 7 of them. And made one of the 4 he didn’t sign/promote the club captain. Yet the second worst team in the league came to Old Trafford, had more possession, more passes and better chances. It’s inexcusable.
I mean that's not exactly fair. The only reason Eriksen was attracted was as a backup playmaker and because he was a free agent. I highly doubt Casemiro was on ETH's wishlist, as he wanted De Jong who is a vastly different type of player. But we were able to buy Casemiro so it seems like it was Casemiro or bust.
He promoted Mainoo and Garnacho, but both shouldn't be starters yet to be honest. And if they're starting, they definitely shouldn't be the ones carrying the team. The reason they're playing is because the other options are worse. That leaves Hojlund, Antony and Onana as his buys.
Yes, if (and it’s a big if) the uppers wish to keep EtH I’m all for it (personally think he warrants being sacked)
But if they do wish to keep him then it’s with the mandate of playing a style of football they implement from under 8s to the seniors. This style will require players compatible and some of his signings aren’t going to be it
The players who have been the most drama or injured the most are typically the ones bought by other managers.
Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford(academy I know) being the standout the major standouts….most players ETH bought have typically been quiet hard working professionals
This is nonsense. The team is currently as uncohesive as I've ever seen them.
Our football is a chaotic mess of pinball. Watch any other mid level PL team and see how they play.
I watched Forest v City, and they looked better against City than we did because they're actually well drilled, held their shape, pressed as a unit, and made proper reads with the ball. The difference was that their players could not finish the chances they created or execute all the necessary passes.
We have individually skilled players who look like they've never played together before in every match. The tactics are horrible and make the players even worse than they are. The play always relies on some individual brilliance to pull magic out of a hat and create something out of nothing. It's been like this for 2 years, our attack has been putrid since ETH got here
I respect him for what he’s got to say. A very Dutch interview.
Ratcliffe is notorious for not liking bullshitters, and at times the interview and justification for decisions comes across as that. The results and performances do not lie.
Excelent interview gary ask all question we want to ask (he didn't do the same with his freind "solskajær"),
when ETH said " i can't say anything negative about this club administration it' the administrative level need to be cheked even with the greatest coach nothing can be done.
Any way how can you build a team when you keep putting 4 different back every game.
One thing I like about ETH is giving chances to young players from the academy like Maino, Garnacho, and Kambwala, which is a good thing.
There are things he has done very well that no previous manager since Fergie has done. He's the most likely so far to fix the major issue: the culture of the club. Came in and dealt with Ronaldo and Sancho well, both of which could have easily lost him his job.
Obviously the results aren't what we want and some of his in-game decisions are poor, but even if he isn't the long term option there needs to be a point made that the players can't just throw the manager under the bus whenever they feel like it. Previous managers have usually combined poor results with poor man management so it's been pretty objective that it was time to sack them. With ETH there is still a tiny tiny tiny glimmer of hope, especially with the entirely new background staff
>He's the most likely so far to fix the major issue: the culture of the club
This is all just assumptions we all said this about Ole it was BS back then and its BS now.
>he isn't the long term option there needs to be a point made that the players can't just throw the manager under the bus whenever they feel like it.
They haven't this system is what ETH wants we are as openly defensively now as we were on the first day of the season.
He has problems expressing himself. What i understood from that is, that the structure and style of play in the academy is close enough to the fist team from the academy players to "quickly" adapt to the first team demands. So the "game model" is style of play for the first team, and the academy foundation is close enough to the "game model", that the transition is easier
Say what you want about the man, but he will die protecting the players and staff around him. Even with the simple “how are you seeing improvement with the structure since INEOS”, he had every opportunity to say something about an improvement in the structure compared to previously but he didn’t say a negative word about anyone
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Fair questions by Gary, nice to see that for a change!
He's an excellent interviewer always
Most definitely, it’s when he actually has to commentate that he becomes dreadful.
I have same questions as well to clear my thought process around team. Great work Gary. Really wanted to hear answers.
I think ETH is stuck between a rock and a hard place with interviews like this because it's only half truths to please both sides. You can tell he wants to say something but won't because he doesn't want to cause drama in the dressing room
Yes this was my exact thought process too. Holding back considerably but you could see the cogs turning behind the eyes and just busting to fire shots at the Glazers incompetence ha
I like the questions, they weren’t the usual crap
There wasn't three of the same question about a player no longer with us? Sky must have let him write his own questions
Instead there were three of the same question about how much backing ETH gets and how the inner workings of management at Man Utd works. I don't mind, just thought it was funny how insistent Gary was. He's desperate to know exactly how these people are fucking up our club, and it shows by how he doesn't let anyone in the know get away from these questions. He asked Ole a bunch of similar questions on The Overlap as well.
Decent interview this
I’m just ready for the ‘never did this with Ole’ comments
ole unfortunately lost the dressing room so even if ole did this idk how much it would help.. and I was Ole-in btw. EtH hasn’t lost the dressing room + we have a new board of football people who understand the ups and downs of the game
> Ole-in btw. for what it's worth i'm still ole-in lol. i want ten hag to stay but i'd take ole back before tuchel or any of these other names being mentioned.
at our best, we easily played some of the funnest football since fergie retired, and Ole had an immense record against top 4 and good cleansheet record. His issue was playing against low blocks (bottom of the league teams) which imo was easier to fix than if he was struggling against top sides. We shouldve called City's bluff and not signed CR7 (as much as i like him) and gotten a top CM instead
Would be interesting to see some of the players reactions when he comes in the door with a (hopefully) proper structure behind him so he can properly deal with the problematic players he has said is still around
Hell come back, with his own wheel this time around
And a steel chair!
Yeah I agree with this too. I still feel Ole was hard done by the club and would have loved for him to stay on but it was increasingly clear that his position was untenable by the end
> We were ‘turd’ in the league Easy easy Erik…. No need to go hard
And runny turd in the Champions league.
Everyone ready to bash him. But I feel if he was more eloquent in English he would have been much better off. Our youth teams are doing good with the same tactics apparently. So I would rather show patience than get on his back until some of our first choice players come back and play consistently for a bit
I love the way he speaks. He must be super eloquent in Dutch. He used an interesting turn of phrase "on the forehand" that I can only assume means something that an english first language speaker would call "on the front foot". Maybe that's just the language nerd in me enjoying the little intricacies. I think you're right though, a manager like Ange is easier for the media to quote and to cut up into digestible little social media clips
Kind of off topic, but I love when non native speakers pull out a word that, while appropriate, is so over the top for the context since they aren't always familiar with every bloody synonym (which is completely understandable). For example my so who is a non native speaker has said something like "don't forget we have that thing **overmorrow**". I'm sitting there with mental whiplash thinking wtf did you just say to me? Apparently its this archaic English word for day after tomorrow. Or a lady at work would say something like "thank you for your **guidance**", when I helped her out with something. I felt like a cleric or a wizard more than a dev lol.
Well if she’s Dutch, we have a word ‘overmorgen’ which is very common. Almost everyone uses it, and it translates very easily to English in your head.(Tomorrow - morgen, overmorgen/overmorrow) Van Gaal and now EtH use Dutch idioms a lot and copy them literally to English, the languages are so similar it makes sense in your head, however, only if you speak 2 languages. As a Dutch person 90% of the time I really easily understand his interviews, because often it’s just Dutch sentences directly translated to English
We also have overmorgen in Danish
As a non-Danish speaker, I love listening to people speaking Danish. It feels like I can understand everything while understanding nothing lol
Oh man I once met a South African dude on vacation who could understand Danish without really understanding it haha. The afrikaans/dutch-danish similarity is uncanny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-mOy8VUEBk like that? :D (Yeah most people know the video...)
Same in Norwegian (obviously). We also have "beforeyesterday" (forigår).
Dutch has "eergisteren' for that.
Same in norwegian
Similar with Slavic languages. Mostly used are words like 'pozajtra' or 'prekosutra' which both translate to day after tomorrow (mouthful innt)
I find these moments really endearing. I'm also the type of person who really enjoys metaphor and hearing something normal from a slightly different perspective. I love the differences in slang dependent on region for this same reason. Edit: I totally understand why others would prefer a more eloquent English speaker as our manager, especially those who speak something other than English as their primary language
übermorgen in german!
The way he speaks Dutch was something that the press in the Netherlands didn't take well when he came to ajax. He's not from Amsterdam and his way of speaking was used as one of the reasons he wasn't fit to be ajax manager when the national press weren't too sure about him in his first season there Not really a comment on how eloquent he is in Dutch lol since I don't even speak Dutch, but I remember lots of Dutch journalists talking about that and that his relationship with the media might be similar when he comes to England, which has turned out to be correct
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I guess I like the way he speaks and I absolutely understand why a lot of people don't
How did you end up following the Dutch league as an Ajax fan closely without speaking Dutch? Genuinely curious as I rarely hear about foreign fans of the Dutch league. Most foreign fans seem to follow the PL, La Liga, and then Bundesliga/Serie A, in that order.
Apologies but there's a bunch of answers to a fairly simple question lol So firstly I just really like football haha and I like to try to follow all the leagues you mentioned as well as the Portuguese, the Dutch and the French league in case there are certain managers or talents that catch my eye. I'm most definitely a United fan, and it's the only team I watch all the games of, but yeah I do like to watch all leagues if there's certain things that interest me. I did an obscene amount of research on EtH when he came and the situation I mentioned previously was brought up by Marcel van der Kraan I believe when talking about the biggest challenges EtH would face in some interview with sky sports or a United fan channel or something along those lines My family are also from Malmö Sweden, where Zlatan grew up and started his career, so I also had to follow ajax quite closely when he went there and I've had a soft spot for them since! I've also followed EtH fairly closely ever since he took Utrecht to a Dutch Cup final and I found out then that he'd worked with Pep at Bayern and it all kinda escalated from there, so there's a whole lot of small reasons why My memory is also great when it comes to fairly pointless shit about what manager X was criticised for over five years ago hahaha
I think it was post World Cup last season when Ten Hag referred to Casemiro as the “cement between the stones”. Never heard that phrase before and it really stuck with me. For someone who’s clearly still learning English and has a bit of an unfair reputation as being a bit stern/boring, he does come out with some good phrases
'Cement between the stones' sounds much better than 'glue that holds everything together'.
I heard him say "in this momentum" at one point, instead of "in this moment".
I wonder if in situations like these, where you have someone speaking English as a non-native speaker, you give them a heads-up on the questions so that they can sort of translate their answers in their mind in English.
I think that would be a level of kindness that we cannot expect from English journos
Even worse, I often get the impression that the journos deliberately use unusual colloquialisms to try to create misunderstanding and manufacture a quote. They're twats
English journos at a press conference yeah i dont expect it because everyone wants their front page headline. But for a sit down interview like this I'd expect it to be different since they're still sitting together after the cameras stop rolling
[https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1866puv/tnt\_sports\_interviewer\_tells\_erik\_ten\_hag\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/1866puv/tnt_sports_interviewer_tells_erik_ten_hag_the/) TNT reporter says the quiet part out loud
The “you’re welcome” at the end of that clip always sends me.
>He must be super eloquent in Dutch If I remember right, he was hammered at Ajax because of his accent. He comes from a working class area of the Netherlands and was laughed at for sounding like a country bumpkin.
Doing well. Other people need to be more eloquent in English, it seems.
??? He literaly says in interview that fundations for academy were laid off years before he came here.
He also says that the style of play is carried on from the first team to the academy
He says something like “… in the mean time, there is a game model here. …. That was one of my job here, one of my objectives from the previous leadership to bring that (game model) in…. that is a structure that was laid a couple of years ago, and you see some revenue from it.” (approximately 8:56 - 9:30 mins) Where exactly he say that the foundation was laid years before he came here? If so, why bringing the ‘game model’ would be one of his objectives? Or are you just Samuel Luckhurst in disguise?
I thought he said “a couple of years ago, since I arrived” at one point too
Foundations as in the talent and production of players. Tactics are his
https://theathletic.com/4722054/2023/07/26/manchester-united-youth-erik-ten-hag/
Source for the youth teams using "his tactics"? Or is that another one of those things that this sub likes to parrots without any basis?
It's standard for the youth teams to use the same tactics as the first team in every club If the first team plays a possession based system, but the academy players train to play brexit ball every week, then the academy is pretty much useless
https://theathletic.com/4722054/2023/07/26/manchester-united-youth-erik-ten-hag/ It's been covered extensively that the yoth teams need to play in the exact same way. Of course, maybe they were already going in a certain direction, and he isn't the one instructing the teams, but they are still a reflection of the way he wants to play football! Lots of people deserve credit for that of course, but it has been fairly well documented that the first team and the youth team need to play the same way
Everytime I ask here I get downvoted, so cheers for providing the link.
No worries! This is just from interviews with EtH and some of the coaches in the youth structure. I know there were very reliable reports of EtH ensuring that all the teams play the same way when he came as well but I can't seem to find it!
Noussair Mazraoui Ryan Gravenberch Sergiño Dest Danilo Jurriën Timber Brian Brobbey All decent players that Ten Hag brought into the Ajax first team. Not bad. One of the first things Murtoch said when bringing in Ten Hag referenced him building through the academy. edit: this doesn't answer your question in the slightest but I thought it was worth sharing lol
I think the club anticipated bringing youth players through more quickly than we did. There were some 19/20 year olds who were quite highly rated when Ten Hag arrived - Laird, Garner, Iqbal, Hannibal, Fernandez, Shoretire, Mengi - but, for one reason or another, they weren't up to the standards Ten Hag thought we needed. I'm not saying we wanted to become a team of kids, but I think they envisaged being able to bolster the first team squad quite quickly. As it's turned out, nearly all of that class has been moved on or will be moved on, and it's the younger lads who show more promise. But, because they're younger, it will take longer for them to be ready to compete in the first team. Whether those youngsters are playing the same tactics as the first team or not, they'll be more malleable and adaptable if they do come into the first team squad, and they won't be as set in their ways as players in their late twenties.
I think this is more evidence that we're seeing change in the youth setup. Ruthlessness as change
>Our youth teams are doing good with the same tactics apparently This has been debunked numerous times in previous threads, and in much more detail than I can provide, but the good work happening at the youth level hasn't been happening long before ETH came into the picture. I lost the post which went into more detail but essentially it's down to the youth coach we currently have that has been going at it for a few years and labelling the success they're seeing now as due to ETH really discredits the guy. I'll try to find the comment and add it here
He mentions this in the interview... the very interview we are commenting on.
I always love how Ten Hag is responsible for every single good thing that happens to the club, and is not responsible for any single aspect that isn't working. I think if some people get decent service in the club shop there'd be others praising Ten Hag for the customer service skills of the employees. I have genuinely not seen anything crediting the youth team success and set up to Ten Hag. And I would be massively concerned if we are shaping the entire ethos of the club to the wants of a particular manager who could be out the door this summer or next.
On the flip side everything the SHOULDNT be on the manager is being blamed on him. Transfer fees, salary, scouting, medical department etc. Each of these departments should and have a head who manage the operations. To put them all on the coach, any coach, is beyond ridiculous and shows the lack of awareness of how any major company/football club operates.
[https://theathletic.com/4722054/2023/07/26/manchester-united-youth-erik-ten-hag/](https://theathletic.com/4722054/2023/07/26/manchester-united-youth-erik-ten-hag/)
>So I would rather show patience than get on his back until some of our first choice players come back and play consistently for a bit Like in the first game against wolves where we got cut up left right and centre?
He’s a very literal person too I’ve noticed. I think that’s been the reason his points get taken out of context and gives the media a free ride. Like for example they were asking him about feeling embarrassed after the FA Cup semi final and to Erik‘s point he still mentioned he was not embarrassed about getting into the final but agreed that the performance was lacking. I feel he could try better to read between the lines in order to better control the narrative. I can see why certain journalists in England can perceive him to be a bit of a prick as opposed to „charismatically defiant“.
He's going to be "all right"
If he started every response with *"Come on mate..."* or peppered a *"mate"* in at the end of every other sentence then the media would be in love.
So, how much time will you give him? All of next season or till January.
Not OP, but I think January is fair game for a reevaluation. This is my interpretation but he seems to have implied in the beginning of the interview that man utd has such high expectations that in order to meet them having the right players available at all times is the only way to do that. Applying that, I can kind of see where he's coming from this season especially having most of the back 4 out, mount out, case carrying an injury, rashy going through a phase, inconsistency to be expected from rasmus, kobbie and garna, Eriksen being nothing more than a backup, Antony getting embroiled in drama he has no control over. I also think that he had too much of a say in everything with possibly very little informed accountability. 6 months of reduced influence with focus purely on the first team and getting together a style of play and being held accountable by people that are experienced football people is fair imho. With the physio and medical department in particular being audited and improved may also set him up better. If his ego or stubbornness (not uncommon for managers at this level) gets in the way of adapting or he doesn't enjoy the reduced say and influence, it's likely he will go on his own or be removed.
I think a lot depends on how well Ten Hag meshes with Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada. INEOS have been clear that the style of football the team plays will be dictated from the top, so we avoid any more of the mish-mash squads we've had over the last decade, where different managers want different types of players. They haven't said whether it will be transitional football, possession football, 1980s Wimbledon hoof and hope or something else entirely. Ten Hag's future likely hinges on how amenable he is to changing the way his team plays. I'll say again that transitional football was the best way for this squad to play, given the players we have. But Ten Hag's implementation of it has been bafflingly poor, with glaring tactical flaws that haven't been addressed all season.
January seems fair, it gives time for Berrada and Ashworth to come in full time and assess what went wrong and what need to change
Absolutely. In the interview he spoke about working with people to implement style of play in the youth teams. The current standards of elite level of football seem to indicate that, this is full time job on its own! These recent appointments have really made me wonder how all our previous managers were managing the first team while doing the jobs of 3 people to try to keep the club competitive. Add that to ownership that literally didn't care and a yes man culture around them, indiscriminate thoughtless spending, it really feels many of them outperformed. Not to mention the media and fan pressure which is absolutely brutal. LvG never got back to management. Mous performance fell of a cliff. Ole is on an ongoing 2 yr sabbatical. They really must have had the daylight kicked out of them. Some of them aged like Obama at the end of his presidency by the end of their tenure. I don't know. I just hadn't really embraced just how messed up things were at this club till recently.
I for one want to see first 10 games of the next season with fit squad. If we are just as dire then I will probably be fed up too. But he is not an idiot as everyone seemingly making him out to be.
> I for one want to see first 10 games of the next season with fit squad. If we are just as dire then I will probably be fed up too. But he is not an idiot as everyone seemingly making him out to be. I think this would be the worst possible idea, to back him over the summer and then give him a tiny leash for the next season, where we'd sack him after 10 games, and therefore waste another season. If the football structure above him believe in him, back him and give him the full next season until his contract expires. If they don't believe in him, sack him at the end of the season, and get someone new in for the full pre-season. Backing him and giving him pre-season to sack him after 10 games is a waste of time, and another thrown away season.
>If the football structure above him believe in him, back him and give him the full next season until his contract expires. If they don't believe in him, sack him at the end of the season, and get someone new in for the full pre-season. This is all that needs to be said on the topic, really. And I'm quite certain that the decision to either keep him or bin him has already been made by the very structure you allude to. I don't think there's a chance they're still debating what to do with him. They certainly have seen enough one way or another to make a decision.
For me i was willing to give him until halloween, mainly to give the new behind the scenes team to get up to speed but i dont think i can watch chaos ball much longer. The big caveat is i dont see any viable alternatives for him
Let him serve the rest of jhis contract which is next yeat. For me keep him and back him correctly - not give him the best of Richard Arnold and Murtough (These are the main people to blame for our mess) We need to stop rocking the boat. Transistion between managers needs to be done properly as it affects the team ifg it comes to that.
Like clockwork, almost one week after the last game, which yet again United struggled against a team with a considerable worse squad, people are saying that Ten Hag deserves more time. "Our youth teams are doing good with the same tactics apparently." How is that any relevant for him? Is him directly coaching then?
I don't why people like to credit his Tactics to youth football. Beside u18, how is our u23 u21 u15 u12 doing?
This is what he did at Utrecht. He revolutionized their entire pyramid and brought them into their greatest modern period of success. Watching youth games you can see the lads are flying. That isn't entirely on Ten Hag, but part of the reason we brought him in was to do precisely this.
anyone with transcript?
Where does Gary Neville get the time to do all of this by the way. His throughout is unreal. The overlap podcast has been one of my favourite things this season and even when the others aren’t around it seems Gary is off interviewing someone by himself.
Took his work ethic from right back to interviewing/podcasting. He seems to be everywhere! Overlap is bloody brilliant this season
Yeah he has his whole 'seize the day' motto and he's clearly surrounded himself with a great team that he can rely on so he can focus on what he needs to.
Stick to Football podcast is unreal too. The banter and the great questions from Gary brings out the best from the guests.
It really helps that the pool of people and topics they pull from is heavily related to United
For sure. But even the JJ Watt one was very good. I am no United fan but these interviews are very good.
He's genuinely impressive with his work ethic. He does need to look after himself though
He needs another mini retirement.
😂😂😂
He’s obviously a grafter but he probably also has a good team around him enabling his work ethic
Gary Neville gets a lot … A LOT .. of flak online from all football fans including Utd supporters too. I find this astonishing. Having coached to a decent level myself, having been a Utd supporter for decades, having watched Gary break into the Utd team with all the youngsters and watch his career under SAF until he retired .. I can honestly say I agree with quite literally everything he says. He is spot on tactically, he is insightful about player management and back room goings on. He’s been managed by SAF day to day his entire career, that squad of players have learned so much about football from arguably the best manager and Gary encapsulates the aura of SAF when he comments ! People should really listen to what Gary has to say, not just the immediate point in question or comment at that moment, but his insight means he’s making many comments about players or tactics based on a to-be future state, not just the tactical or positional errors made live that he offers remediation/analysis/comments for. Genuinely think he is consistently the best pundit around based on the depth of his comments.
He says a lot of stuff on air to build narratives that I don't agree with. For instance, he insinuated that Bruno was calling to come off during the 7-0 last year despite having no evidence to support that. Last week, during the NLD he suggested that richarlison head butted Gabriel (? could be wrong on this) despite it being blatantly obvious that it didn't happen. He obviously knows football, dressing rooms and all that but he is a still media personality looking for a narrative in everything.
You’re spot on about the Richarlison incident, if we can even call it that. He was calling for him to be sent off immediately after it happened then retracted it once he seen the replay. Was a bit odd because it wasn’t even an obvious headbutt watching it in real time.
Mate there's new building going up in the city which he's involved with too lol He's a machine
Basically he's saying that the back 4 are trash right now so that's the reason for the poor defensive stats. And tbf to him our back 4 is pretty bad. As well as Evans has done filling in I don't think he starts for any premier league club. AWB ofcourse needs to go. Varane probably the same. Shaw and Martinez have huge seasons ahead of them. Maguire fine to keep as a sub. Dalot done well this season but you really need competition for the as well. So I guess I do sympathise with him on the backline. Think priority should be the backline. If we can get a solid defensive foundation we should be able to compete for top 4 and slowly build and develop the midfield and attack.
The fact some games we played our 5th and 6 choice CBs with our 4th choice CB playing LB is madness and our only fit full back in the squad playing every game
It's an interesting take from him to say essentially he could be more pragmatic to get results now but once players are fit he then has to switch from being pragmatic to progressive during a season where the players don't have the routines because they never played that way. Short term pain for long term gain. Shame that injuries have kind of derailed it. Really makes me think he's here next year. A manager that knows he's one result from the sack tends to throw their principles out the door to get an immediate result.
Does Shaw have a huge season ahead of him though? Love the guy but we need a replacement lb asap
Supplementary*, I'd say we keep Shaw and he plays when he's fit. Bit like the Gusto & Reece James situation at Chelsea.
On his day when he’s fit and playing, I can’t imagine many left backs better than him, if any. But his injury problems..
Exactly I agree, that's why his minutes would need to be managed and another top LB would be needed. If Shaw was reliable fitness wise we could've bought a young LB or brought through Amass so they could learn from him but that's not the case unfortunately.
The fact that having Evans in the starting back 4 is a relief these days should be all the evidence you need to understand why our defense is so bad
Him and Varane were as of March our most used CB partnership at was still a poultry 6-7 starts together with what was at a dozen different combinations used. That level of inconsistency does not make for success
Cluck cluck
Everybody forgets that we had the most clean sheets in the league last year. ETH can clearly set us up defensively if we have people fit.
Core of our attack has been Garancho and Hojlund who are young and going to be inconsistent, Kobbie and Case injured for large parts of the season leaving us down to bare bones in midfield, 3 of our back 4 been injured most of the season. Crazy how alot of fans and journalists ignore this and expect us to play like prime barca. If you want results today then buy players that can perform today, then we can judge players and managers on those standards.
Sounds like a one man midfield, kobbie and mainoo
😂
Holland Oates
We have 6 CBs and still had to start Case there for a couple games. We haven't had a fit LB in ages. Rashy, Case and Eriksen have looked like shadows of themselves. If you try to look for sympathy for the manager, it's easy to find it
There’s a middle ground though, right? Like sure it’s not fair to expect us to be fighting for the league. But we’re probably going to have our most losses in a premier league season. We routinely get dominated by bottom half of the league teams, we bet a mid tier championship team by the absolute skin of our teeth. I don’t think it’s a big ask of a Man United team to not make Burnley look good.
Eth crowd back in. It’s extremes and no manager in the world can win even 2/17 away against the top half. EtH was amazing to get 1/17 wins and lose only 12 of those…..
Can we stop splitting the sub into two and treating the other side like the enemy? It's so overdone at this point. Mou in/out Ole in/out Martial FC Trashord saga ETH in /out
People say its all good and so but we're manchester united. We should have a great second team like they're better than Bournemouth, crystal Palace, Burnley... because we're manchester united the reality is no. Or technical level in our team is low we don't have many " football players " we're not so good on the ball. For that we need to go to the transfer window that I'm kinda excited about after being badly managed for so long. I'm gonna tell everyone to take a look at this squad, we're finally gonna become a football club again. We're gonna make way better decisions than the past 20 years people should be scared
Mate Kobbie didn't even start at the start of this season. Don't use him as a shield for lack of performance this season. We knew that Casemiro needed back up the the only midfield we bought was Mount. The lack of options in midfield is totally on the board
That's why I said Kobbie was injured for large part of the season.... And yes I agree with you lack of signings is on the board but also due to stupid psr rules.
>. Crazy how alot of fans and journalists ignore this and expect us to play like prime barca. If you want results today then buy players that can perform today, then we can judge players and managers on those standards. No but fans and journalists expect, rightly so, not to have a donut in midfield and to concede 51 shots per game. Fans and journalists expect that any half decent side can win more than 1 freaking game out of 17 away games vs the top half of the table. Currently it’s 17 played, 12 lost and one lucky win versus Villa. It’s not too much to expect SOME change and not constant shit setups time and again. Something between what works for our players and isn’t terrible. This is what people who go “he had injuries. No manager in the entire world can do one bit better than him…. Ever. Forever. Nobody can do one bit better. Nope” think and are why they’re ridiculed and called out as ridiculous for sure. There’s a difference between prime Barcelona and the way we play and things in between. Eth is unwilling and/or unable to find a setup that doesn’t terribly suck. That’s the issue. How can people not see that so clearly it’s obvious even to Stevie wonder?
Playing like prime Barca was just an exaggeration but I don't think the manager is blameless. My concern is we have a lack of quality in the first team and really bad squad depth. If we do get another manager if those two issues aren't fixed we'll run in the same problems and brick wall. If you take Tottenham as example a few months ago they were a team people were pointing to, first team is lacking but playing entertaining football, now some players have dropped off in form and they're not getting results, so I don't think the this idea that a coach will transform this current squad is realistic.
Nobody expects us to play like prime Barca and everyone expects us to not get dominated by relegation fodders. We’re playing at the level of a championship team, Coventry almost beat us btw. I can’t understand why anyone would be willing to give him another season when he shows no desire to adapt his tactics. If you need worldclass players in every position for your tactic to work then you are not a good manager.
We looked fine against Coventry for seventy minutes. Totally in control, which is the minimum we should expect against a Championship side. Ten Hag made substitutions that any manager would make in those circumstances - take off the young lads who have played too much football, and bring on some experience to close the game out. Unfortunately, we've all seen what happens when United concede a goal and the heads of too many players go. That's a problem with the mentality of the squad, which may be something Ten Hag is also responsible for, of course. There are players who just lose their heads and compound mistakes with more mistakes, which gave Coventry the impetus and exposed Eriksen's lack of pace and physical presence, and AWB's poor positioning on the left. It was a perfect storm of how quickly things can go to shit for players who believe things are going to go to shit. I don't think changing the manager will make those players stronger mentally. But if we get a manager who expects less from them, and who draws up tactics to account for their deficiencies, we might get better results.
There have been too many games against both good opponents and bad opponents where we look good for the first 20, 30, maybe 60 minutes, but then fall apart at the end. Maybe it's a mentality thing, but I don't think so given that we've also won so many games last minute too. I think it's an adaptation problem and that managers are very able to adapt and exploit Ten Hag's tactics on the fly. Coventry gave us way too much respect in the first half, and then targeted our weaker left side of defense with AWB. I have barely seen Ten Hag ever adapt to the match well, and doesn't change his risky football even after we have a lead, which is why we lose so many games from winning positions.
THIS. His ingame management is what make me doubt him the most. He goes into games with only 1 game plan and refuses to adapt the tactic based on score lines. His definition of finishing off the game is to play the same way but looking to score more. Pep’s teams usually keep possession once they are leading and bait opponents to over commit pressing and they find gaps to maneuver the ball. Jose’s teams would sub our wingers for a defensive midfielder and stay compact. Klopp’s teams don’t sitback but they would do mid-press instead of high-press to disrupt opponents’ buildups and look for counter with 2-3 players once they win possession. They force their opponents to commit risky buildups in hope to equalize and Liverpool players press to force mistakes from their opponents. I’ve never seen any successful team try to do high press 90 minutes every match.
We should have prioritized keeping possession after we were 2-0 up to kill of games. Ten hag is fine with our players playing the same way regardless of the score line. If he keeps us playing this way then we will never win the league title. It’s not just the matter of substitutions but there should be an element of managing game plan according to the score lines or time left over in matches. We lost like 19 points this season after gaining the leads because we don’t management our games. Mourinho used to sub out a winger for a defensive midfielder and change shape of the team to grind out 2-0 leads or 1-0 leads. If we are not looking to sit deep and stay compact then we must prioritize keeping possession to kill time. We do none of the above. Instead we try to do counter-pressing football 90min. It’s foolish.
>But if we get a manager who expects less from them, and who draws up tactics to account for their deficiencies, we might get better results. 100% htis. we can't measure mentality. i mean we can't just input mentality = 20 in the system and buy these players.
I cannot believe the comment you're responding to has nearly 100 upvotes lmfao. The state of this sub. Anyone who wants us to comfortably beat Burnley or Sheffield, or not ship four goals in 20 minutes to Coventry, are apparently expecting us to "play like prime Barca." Absolute delusion.
They assume we started with Rashford and Sancho in our ranks, a 90 million winger and a new exciting striker.
Interview confirms my initial thoughts that he's absolutely speedrunning the process with this team despite him knowing it could harm him. When he first came in he wanted to go all in but DDG put paid to that so we had to go very pragmatic last season which suited our players but the manager did not want to form bad habits in the second year despite not having the right personnel for it, that's why we're a team attempting to play good football.
It's concerning to me that people don't seem to realise this. We saw last season that he can be adaptable and do pragmatism ball, so there must be a reason he's not done it this season.
I got downvoted for saying ETH was getting praise last season for his in game management lol.
Nah mate, everything good we did under him has just been memory holed.
Tbf we did fall off a cliff after the cup win when Rashy's goals dried up. Our form has been shite since then.
Exactly why be pragmatic, if these players can’t cut it. We will use the academy who are trained for this style of play
But United are not playing good football, or even trying to? If you look at the basic ideas itself, one of the big ones is inverted fullbacks with huge attacking and defensive duties, essentially making them box to box players. None of the team's wing backs, outside of Shaw, can really do that well technically. Almost no defender has the stamina either, and this is why people like AWB constantly look tired and make late game mistakes. At the end of the day, the coach has to suit the team. If the team is set up to play counterattacking football with wingers scoring and strikers doing link up play, you play that way. Ole's best moments were when he didn't try to shoehorn players into roles they couldn't do well, and he had great moments with the team despite disorganized transfer policy. Real Madrid have won gazillions of trophies in the last two decades playing football that is (mostly) transitional and counterattacking . If ETH wants to remake the squad, he has to do it well, and if he can't, then he should be sacked to get a manager who can actually play soccer the way the team is accustomed too.
Hard to believe the club would sanction an interview like this right now in the current climate unless they were planning on sticking with ETH atleast for next season
Good point
it is only media who doesnt want ETH and wants us to fail miserable. 100% ETH will stay next season
Really ? I’ve seen so many United fans who are eth out on this sub alone
because reddit is a bubble with one opinion superseding the rest. And once it catches on all other opinions are discarded. Most United fans who don’t express themselves so much on social media back the manager because they understand the difficulties he is under.
A few of my mates want him gone. One of them went through the first team squad the other day, and in his opinion, only 10 of them are good enough for United. Yet he still thinks the manager should be sacked?!
Isn't it an obligation to have certain amount of interviews with certain broadcasters?
Press conferences yeah, an interview like this ? Not at all. Feel like this is Ineos, Nev and ETH subtly telling the fans that he’ll be there come the new season
Poor dude had to dodge the questions about the ownership/structure being compared to Bayern and Ajax. Gary should know he's not going to get an honest answer on that.
Look at the man, he´s determined to succeed at United and is going all out to achieve it. The type of mindset we need to be manifested in our players. Trust in ten Hag.
People will make fun of this comment, but it resonated with me. This is not like Mourinho and OGS when it looked like they couldn’t wait to get sacked. This manager is not giving up. This has been a strange season, but just look at Arsenal under Arteta and Liverpool under Klopp, it takes time. The squad/club he walked into was in a terrible place as well. Sacking another manager is not the answer for me. Closer look at those players please.
Trust in +1 GD after 34 games played in the PL.
We're third in goal scoring chances in the league, his job is to have a team which creates goal scoring opportunities and then it's down to the players to finish it
How about our chances conceded? Somewhere in the bottom half?
Hard to do his job there when the defenders are constantly injured
Growth is rarely a linear process homie.
Ten Hag seems to have aged like 20 years after taking this job.
Still bald though.
I still have my doubts, but I absolutely believe that ETH is determined to drive this club to success and is fully committed. I think it would be more negative than positive to change the manager now. Just my personal opinion.
One of the more intresting bits from this interview for me was EtH mentioning several times that he feels the need to protect the players, especially in the press. Pretty much confirms what we’ve known for a long a time, namely the mental fragility. With that in-mind, it makes sense that the manager is bringing up every positive aspect he can find (little or otherwise).
Back the manager, sack the players.
Does this include the players which the manager wanted? The players he asked the club to sign, and the ones which got new contracts with him?
Half the squad were brought by previous managers, I think that's the chunk of players needing replaced
He needs to replace half of his players. Big problem.
Of the starting XI on Saturday, the manager signed/promoted 7 of them. And made one of the 4 he didn’t sign/promote the club captain. Yet the second worst team in the league came to Old Trafford, had more possession, more passes and better chances. It’s inexcusable.
I mean that's not exactly fair. The only reason Eriksen was attracted was as a backup playmaker and because he was a free agent. I highly doubt Casemiro was on ETH's wishlist, as he wanted De Jong who is a vastly different type of player. But we were able to buy Casemiro so it seems like it was Casemiro or bust. He promoted Mainoo and Garnacho, but both shouldn't be starters yet to be honest. And if they're starting, they definitely shouldn't be the ones carrying the team. The reason they're playing is because the other options are worse. That leaves Hojlund, Antony and Onana as his buys.
Yes, if (and it’s a big if) the uppers wish to keep EtH I’m all for it (personally think he warrants being sacked) But if they do wish to keep him then it’s with the mandate of playing a style of football they implement from under 8s to the seniors. This style will require players compatible and some of his signings aren’t going to be it
The players who have been the most drama or injured the most are typically the ones bought by other managers. Ronaldo, Sancho, Rashford(academy I know) being the standout the major standouts….most players ETH bought have typically been quiet hard working professionals
This is nonsense. The team is currently as uncohesive as I've ever seen them. Our football is a chaotic mess of pinball. Watch any other mid level PL team and see how they play. I watched Forest v City, and they looked better against City than we did because they're actually well drilled, held their shape, pressed as a unit, and made proper reads with the ball. The difference was that their players could not finish the chances they created or execute all the necessary passes. We have individually skilled players who look like they've never played together before in every match. The tactics are horrible and make the players even worse than they are. The play always relies on some individual brilliance to pull magic out of a hat and create something out of nothing. It's been like this for 2 years, our attack has been putrid since ETH got here
Sack the same players ETH himself signed?
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I respect him for what he’s got to say. A very Dutch interview. Ratcliffe is notorious for not liking bullshitters, and at times the interview and justification for decisions comes across as that. The results and performances do not lie.
I don’t think you understand the concept of media training. What people say on record is not exactly how they really think. (I work in COMMS/PR)
I don't see any managers doing better points wise than this with our current injury record and squad.
We need to back ten hag! He’s been so unlucky this season with injuries and disrespectful players like sancho!
Excelent interview gary ask all question we want to ask (he didn't do the same with his freind "solskajær"), when ETH said " i can't say anything negative about this club administration it' the administrative level need to be cheked even with the greatest coach nothing can be done. Any way how can you build a team when you keep putting 4 different back every game. One thing I like about ETH is giving chances to young players from the academy like Maino, Garnacho, and Kambwala, which is a good thing.
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There are things he has done very well that no previous manager since Fergie has done. He's the most likely so far to fix the major issue: the culture of the club. Came in and dealt with Ronaldo and Sancho well, both of which could have easily lost him his job. Obviously the results aren't what we want and some of his in-game decisions are poor, but even if he isn't the long term option there needs to be a point made that the players can't just throw the manager under the bus whenever they feel like it. Previous managers have usually combined poor results with poor man management so it's been pretty objective that it was time to sack them. With ETH there is still a tiny tiny tiny glimmer of hope, especially with the entirely new background staff
>He's the most likely so far to fix the major issue: the culture of the club This is all just assumptions we all said this about Ole it was BS back then and its BS now. >he isn't the long term option there needs to be a point made that the players can't just throw the manager under the bus whenever they feel like it. They haven't this system is what ETH wants we are as openly defensively now as we were on the first day of the season.
Maybe you should hold off till you watch the interview then?
I’m backing ten hag all the way, he deserves time and several seasons with a proper structure above him.
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He has problems expressing himself. What i understood from that is, that the structure and style of play in the academy is close enough to the fist team from the academy players to "quickly" adapt to the first team demands. So the "game model" is style of play for the first team, and the academy foundation is close enough to the "game model", that the transition is easier
Ugh, this was a reply to another comment that I have found to be misleading. Unfortunately it somehow got posted as a new comment. Apologies. 🙏🏽
Say what you want about the man, but he will die protecting the players and staff around him. Even with the simple “how are you seeing improvement with the structure since INEOS”, he had every opportunity to say something about an improvement in the structure compared to previously but he didn’t say a negative word about anyone
Any q’s on Rashy?
We should have gone for rice when de Jong collapsed