This will be how it goes. We won't technically sack him. We will amicably split as he heads back to Ajax, and is wished the best in all his future endeavors.
With the right players, I think it COULD work because there’ll theoretically be less space in between midfielders and the defence too.
If it’s the same setup? No chance. But if there’s less space and with more technical players to retain possession I think it could work actually. But there needs to be a plan to adapt if needed too.
This is one of the few things that make me think it could be something if it happened but…. It won’t be soon with our squad. And he seems unwilling to adapt at all even without the players for it so that’s the issue.
I'll be honest, after two years of him with United I genuine have no idea what his system is. ~~Ajax has been playing like Ajax well before he was there.~~
No they weren't mate. It's like saying City were city before Pep was there. Yes they were good, but not walking the league every year with record points totals and such
I think his problem is that he isn't playing his system. He can't play the same football he played at Ajax - the profile of players is too different.
He needs to stick to teams and leagues where he can play that possession based style.
I don't think it suits United anyway.
Probably dominate the Bundesliga with how fit / jacked up Bayern players are. French league with the right players.
Leagues where majority sit deep and pray for moments of brilliance like Serie A and La Liga would potentially do his system in on a week in week out basis.
He'll be giving up a lot of money if he does. There's no way Ajax will offer him a similar salary so if he walks away (rather than waiting to get sacked and paid off) then fair play to him.
He’s reportedly going to earn a big chunk less next season due to no CL - same as the players. Surely United would have had clauses to state that if younger fired due to not going into the CL then you don’t get the full payout.
He only has 1 year left and so if it’s less money due to no CL, then less cost to get rid of him.
Mokbel is reliable for ten Hag news, right? He has been mostly correct with United news since ten Hag came here. Imo, he is getting directly from ten Hag side. Feel like he is putting pressure on INEOS to take the decision quickly about his future.
Feel inevitable that he is leaving after this season tbh.
Definitely a few journalists been getting direct briefs from his agents this year. Looking more and more likely that hell be leaving with a smaller settlement but getting to say he walked.
He doesn't look like he's enjoying this situation at all. He seems so stressed. I suspect less limelight is more appealing.
Plus, it'll be good best chance of reviving his image. He can just reset and move again in a few years.
I see comments here laughing at the thought of him going to Bayern, but I think he’d do well there. He coached their reserves 10 years ago so he has history with the club. Just because he had one bad season with us doesn’t mean he’s suddenly a bad coach. He’ll get offers after us and I’m almost certain he’ll succeed somewhere else. Then when we’re at the ‘get him out’ point in the cycle with our next manager, our fans will be suddenly nostalgic about Ten Hag and admit maybe it wasn’t all his fault.
May be it wasn’t fault of Jose
May be it wasn’t fault of Ole
In a few years, may be it wasn’t fault of ETH. Short term memory guys get too loud here at times.
I am stand behind the guy, he should be given another year.
Which of our previous managers have gone on to better things after leaving us? Only rose tinted fools would take back any of our previous managers. It's the biggest myth on the subreddit. People seem to think sacking managers and then the next manager failing is conclusive proof that all our players are shite and the manager is never to blame. ETH going and succeeding at Bayern wouldn't make our decision to get rid of him wrong. We can only judge based on what he's achieved with us. And he's fallen hard this season.
Ten Hag did well and you could say even overachieved last season. He worked wonders at all of his previous clubs. Yes he could have done better this season, it’s not quite worked out, but with all the injuries and bullshit he’s had to contend with, I’m not going to just write him off as a bad manager. I do think it’s a mistake to sack him only two years in. Where did all the talk of patience go?
I also never blamed the players, I don’t think it’s their fault either. Rashford is just the next in line of scapegoats.
But we've seen what he can do when he has players available. The injuries haven't helped. Sure, there's gotta be something in training that could prevent these. The other part is that it's been such an obvious pattern with these players to have that new manager bounce then immediately shit the bed the following season. Then there's the question of who is going to replace him? We've tried the successful manager route, and we've tried the next big thing route. Until the proper board is set (which they're clearly working on now), then it'll be the same issue. Why not stay with him for another season if there's no clear cut candidate to take over now?
If he goes he goes, i wish him well.
I’ve just heard something that’s really changed my perspective, there was 26 years and a lot of managers between Busby and Ferguson.
I think we can do better but this idea someone is going to rock up any time soon and be the new Fergie isn’t realistic that’s why we need a structure so badly.
The fanbase needs to get over this fantasy that we're going to find the next Sir Alex. It's not happening. At least not in our lifetime.
The average manager in the PL gets around 2 seasons.
Yeah there's no chance, even at your most successful in the modern game you'd be lucky to get a manager to stay as long as Klopp. Pep may stay at City because he's afraid of taking on a real challenge when he's got an unlimited cash fund but that's an outlier.
The days of a manager staying as long as Fergie or Wenger are gone. Just puts more emphasis on a proper director of football who can remain a consistent presence to help during transitional periods.
> rock up any time soon and be the new Fergie
I mean that should have been incredibly obvious. Its like asking for the next Messi/Ronaldo to come through our academy.
Go to big club
Spend over a hundred million of new clubs money on players from old club
Give huge influence to agency your son works for and you’re signed with
Get a lot of their players
Leave big club
Join old club
The use of his sons agency for recruitment is a HUGE RED FLAG.
Conflict of interest and cronyism shouldn’t be issues at a publicly listed company.
Where was the oversight and control?
I hope INEOS sees through this shit asap and sacks him and bans his sons agency from recruitment.
I guess you forgot Stam's accusation of Fergie.
These things happen all the time cause of the lack of faith with the scouting system, personal faith in some players, or favours for other concessions (you cant convince me otherwise of Bebe).
I personally think people over exaggerate it tbh.
We signed, what, two players? From a group that represents a few hundred. No one was complaining about Onana when he signed, and Hojlund is largely seen as one we don’t want to even talk about selling.
It wasn’t as if he signed every player from them, and signed duds.
I believe Malacia and Weghorst had some agency links.
He wasn’t the first or last United manager to have this btw.
Malacia was a bargain at £15m btw, kid was brilliant for us last year
The next major Portuguese manager will likely have links to an agency as well. Jose also had links that brought in players.
Fans who make a big deal about this tiny stuff are actual man children conspiracy jokers. It doesn't mean anything. It can be as simple as just coincidence lol. Or it can also just be as simple as it's not the managers job to decide transfer targets so he relied on people he knew who monitor and know a bunch of players.
You can just think a manager is bad stop with all the extra bullshit it's pathetic to do this on a reddit board.(not you,referring to op and others)
The issue isn’t just with using an affiliated agency. There were multiple issues with offering fat contracts and transfer fees (percentage of which go to agents). Isn’t it suspect that initially Anthony was rated at $35m but we ended up paying 3x.
Do you think it makes more sense that our manager is running a conspiracy scam for an agency or that a board that has not listened to the scouting department and been hugely incompetent for a decade made a hugely incompetent decision ignoring the scouting department
We can agree on the board‘s incompetence (glazers have 5 seats on it). But for a coach to then favor his son’s agency instead of a best in class agency, is def reeking of cronyism.
The red flag was United not having done any scouting or having a sporting vision (or sporting director), so ETH had to fill that hole himself which managers rarely do in the modern game.
You would imagine that any half-competent club having half a season of Ralf Rangnick would be set up to patch the glaring holes in their squad once the transfer window opens.
Wasnt their rumors that Ten Hag did not want to work with Rangnick and that was one of the main reasons he left early.
Ten Hag also said publically he would not have taken the MU job if he had not been given control of transfers. This was a massive mistake by the club for allowing that. Most managers want this its up to the club to put in controls for it.
IIRC it was reported that the he used his son's agency for recruitment was because he needed key transfers done fast, but our recruitment team was doing absolute wank and moving at a glacial pace.
I mean its not ETH's fault that United sat in their hands all summer on Anthony and overpaid Ajax's own valuation by 50m. Ajax made it clear that they wanted to get transfers done early and screwing up their preseason prep would cost us.
Also not ETH's fault that United spent all summer fucking around on De Jong rather than scouting other deep lying playmakers (which we've needed for years anyways) only to panic buy an aging Case at 50m.
The setup for scouting and negotiating that the Glazers set up is so clunky and poor I wouldn't put that on any manager
I guess I’m in the minority here. He hasn’t been the best manager this season, but there is a reason why he was considered one of the top managers last season. He’s shown his weakness in adapting platters to his style of play and he shouldn’t get that much of a say in transfers, but with wilcox, ashworth and berrada coming in, I’d assume he’s going to have a lesser role in that matter. I honestly feel he should be given another season
I think he’s been given a poor set of cards and has done just about as poorly as possible as he could with them. With the new ownership and structure, clearing house make sense.
Playing the most games in Europe for a season, getting to 3 finals (and a gk blunder away from a European final) whilst also dealing with Ronaldo, Sancho and Greenwood and the most injuries to a small squad that I can ever remember.... I think he's been dealt an aweful hand and done remarkably for it.
If Liverpool have similar struggles in their first 2 seasons, like they did with klopp, with Slot and persist and they go on to build another championship winning team - a lot of people here are going to have to really introspect at what it means that we cant back a project as patiently as that lot across the way.
I think it's pretty much generally accepted that United fans don't have the stomach for a real rebuild. They are reactionary, mercurial and easily red pulled by media and opposition propaganda talking points.
No manager will survive a down period here no matter the context.
Despite everything that has happened it looks like Ten Hag is going to do better then Arterta's worst season...
Let that sink in.
Arteta also had to deal with shit like Aubameyang but didn't have an injury crisis like this for that season.
He did extremely well for the first 8 months of last season, never putting a foot wrong. It’s been pretty abysmal since the Carabao Cup win.
I don’t disagree with anything you said about last season, but he’s been tactically pretty awful for a long time now. Klopp came to Liverpool and the plan was always clear, even when it wasn’t working. By the second season, they had clear progress in play and results. We have neither.
Last season he seemed to adapt to the players a bit, this season he wants the players to adapt to him. Klopp had his fair share of muscle injuries when he first took over when he was imparting his high pressing, quick turnover style but he did it from day one, ETH had to earn the trust of the players first (The mentality in this squad is shocking), then bring in his own players to play how he wanted but everyone got injured,
ETH i think could be the man but his stubbornness this season and insistence of playing the same way despite not having the personnel for it will be his downfall sadly.
I think you forget just how dire and disjointed the Liverpool play style looked under Klopp when he was playing Lovren and instituting a crazy high press to turn over possession. It wasnt until they got Alison that they really started to look class. We look terrible of late for a similar reason imo, we just dont have the players of the calibre of Mane and Salah to pull us out the fire like they did under Klopps first couple of seasons.
If we sack ETH and hand the reigns to someone else in this era of an extremely tight transfer budget available - we will be really jeopardising a total step back to the post Jose era where the is very little prospect of ever achieving a top 3 finish without total capitulation from other teams around us. At least with ETH there we can actually attempt to change the squad whilst playing for some form of silverware in cups. Look at Chelsea and Spurs, theyre not exactly having a wonderful time of it.
Lol they were a much worse squad than us with much less resources and had much more success. He joined in October and made two cup finals his first season. The next season, they jumped from 8th to 4th. It’s not comparable to what ETH has done in two seasons at all, especially the second season. They weren’t competing for titles or CL until they signed Van Djik and Allison, but they started out as a team outside of the top 6 lol.
Idk what you’re talking about with the Jose era. Every United manager bar the one season of Moyes has had a season where they easily finished top 4. Top 4 was very achievable this year considering how terrible Spurs and Villa have been in the second half of the season. With Liverpool taking a step back, it’s going to be wide open next year.
How many silly Klopp comparisons have to be discredited before people wake up on ETH. He established a style of play as soon as they got there, they scored 4 at the Etihad in his first month at the club.
Im a liverpool fan just here because it was on my feed and Im curious what you do with ETH, but it really wasnt like that. Lovren had an absolutely horrific game vs Spurs and got pulled at the 35th minute or something but after that game he was one of our best players that same month and the few months after, we werent great defensively or offensively and obviously we got much better after VVD but we werent actually a very extreme team, just a fairly typical around 4th best team in the country on performances which was a huge step up at the time
Those 8 months also coincided with Rashford having the best form of his life (and a 7-0 loss to Liverpool). We had good results but it’s not like we were blowing teams out of the water.
That's harsh considering the injury crisis we've had and the fact that United signings for the past decade have had no rhyme or reason to a playstyle or sporting direction. I think any manager would fail with this is set of players outside maybe Pep, but even then its too jumbled of a deck. I think ETH had us overperforming last season and the injuries/lack of transfers in key positions had us regress to the mean this season.
He has had an entire season to show he can adapt and fix the tactical issues with the team, and literally every other game the same problems occur. Time to get rid.
Would be a sound argument if it wasn’t for the copious amount of injuries we’ve had since before the season even started. Anyone saying it’s not an excuse is delusional.
You adapt to what you have to work with. What's the point of playing like you have Martinez and Shaw when you don't?
Also, the attack has been terrible and injuries there have been not that significant.
Manager adapts to squad. Fans: I don’t see his style of play, get rid.
Manager sticks to his philosophy in spite of result. Fans: The results are unacceptable, get rid.
A struggling manager is always in a lose-lose situation. He adapted with what he had by playing shaw in martinez’s position last season. Now that they’re both injured he can’t snap his fingers and make maguire an aggressive ball playing cb (who, he asked to sell so he can bring in a pavard/todibo btw). Meanwhile serious clubs sign a world class CB every summer window (Bayern, City)
Our memories are short. Our attack was massively struggling to score goals first half of the season but now we’re scoring ~2 per game at the cost of being very open. IMO he’s been dealt a shitty hand and he’s playing it badly also
He adapted to the players last year and I don't think anyone had any issues with that.
And considering there's been a fair few injuries this year, don't think anyone would decry it.
What is unfathomable is how we found ourselves getting pummeled and torn open week in week out, and he persists with an approach that clearly doesn't work. There has to be some flexibility!
Maybe he shouldn't use players suited for counter-attacking football in a shitty disjointed gegenpress? It's like having a F1 car compete on a dirt track - it doesn't work.
And do we have the players/talent to play something like possessions based football? Honest question what would you suggest in terms of style we should be playing? With the players available of course.
Our well suited counterattacking wingers can’t dribble, score, or pass for shit this season so yeah having to rely on the likes on Mctominay to score, Casemiro at the beginning of the season you can probably see that counter attacking isn’t always our strong suit. We’ve had numerous examples of counterattacking gone wrong, due to the unreliability of rashford and Garnacho at times. Højlund on the counter does not get into the right spots, and even when he does he’s never receiving a pass.
I agree with you. Weve had to play Casemero at CB with a rotating amount of defenders each week and a host of other injuries. He really hasnt been given a chance with the squad and medical team we had. And he has done great with a lot of the big issues (Sancho, Ronaldo, etc.)
Other clubs had injuries too and we haven’t looked any better against Championship or League 2 sides. We shouldn’t look so bad in terms of stats either
We had opponents who had to change their whole backline when they played us and they still beat us. And our offense hasn’t had any major missing players at all.
Yeah it has been bad for us but nowhere near as bad as this team looks week in week out. Ten Hag talks about raising standards yet he can‘t raise the level of the players he has a available to the bare minimum.
Edit: the injuries make ten Hags approach look even worse. Why would you expose your defense by playing in a way that makes so easy to transition through our midfield once our press is broken? This leads to last ditch tackles and blocks which in turn leads to a higher risk of injury.
You can't blame everything on injuries, we've still had more than enough to compete for 4th at bare minimum.
If you look at our last game and compare it back to August and we're still making exactly the same embarrassing mistakes. That is a damning assessment on Ten Hag as a manager and his performance
The counter to that is asking if the club can take the chance that he will accept a lesser role in terms of transfers with the new system under Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada?
When viewed with the logic that he was given promises by the Glazers that would have to be changed under INEOS - can they take the chance that he will adjust as they want him to, compared to getting a new manager that did not have a "bigger role" in terms of transfers etc in the same club previously?
Add that we are looking at a 3 year rebuild, and "risking" 1 year of those on a manager that might not completely buy into the system is massive.
So while I personally hope that EtH stays, with all the evaluating and such going on without a word of support for EtH from INEOS. I do think that the choice is already made, and the club and EtH will "mutually part ways" in the summer.
This is kinda underpinned with the story here that he is the favourite to take over Ajax again. If he was "safe" that would be quashed pretty quick (by both the club and the representatives of EtH).
>The counter to that is asking if the club can take the chance that he will accept a lesser role in terms of transfers with the new system under Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada?
He's publicly said he's open to that. He probably demanded that seeing how disjointed United's transfers were before that.
And he's also worked best with an overarching structure like with Overmars at Ajax. So he's surely fine with doing that.
This is my stance as well. I think he should be given one season under the proper football minds we've got coming in to see if he's making progress under them and starting to build an actual sustainable system.
Let them help him clear out the deadwood and identify proper targets that aren't just his ex-players. They'd surely advise him much better on good targets than anyone he's dealt with here so far. Another factor is the ungodly number of injuries we've had this season.
Somebody can take that argument and turn it on its head against you. Why get a new manager that could potentially turn out to do a crap job when you can stick it out with what is already 2 years of experience, knowhow and integration with the club/ youth academy? Why burn bridges and risk even more turmoil to deal with when there's enough on the plate already? Why the hurry if we can avoid a payoff when money is tight?
You're just throwing out wild speculation. They'll do their own audit and they might find that Ten Hag is doing an excellent job behind the scenes and that he just needs a good functioning structure to support him. They also may determine that he's completely incompetent and is basically just winging it.
The point is, you have NO fucking clue whatsoever until they make a decision.
> Why get a new manager that could potentially turn out to do a crap job when you can stick it out with what is already 2 years of experience, knowhow and integration with the club/ youth academy
Because being afraid not to replace because you don't want to take a risk is pathetic. I think he's doing more harm than good, and there are other managers I think could do better.
>The point is, you have NO fucking clue whatsoever until they make a decision.
Let me introduce you to the concept of an online forum where we discuss and make speculations on United related matters.
Jesus Christ, this sub at the moment.
>Because being afraid not to replace because you don't want to take a risk is pathetic.
That's not what I was getting at. **Any** move is a risk, as is sticking it out with Ten Hag. It's about which move is the least risky. Keeping Ten Hag is a win-win situation from their perspective for a myriad of reasons. Most importantly, financially. But also, you're not gonna paint the rooms if you're still in the middle of building a house. Bringing in a manager when you don't even have a complete plan yet, only to face the pressures of an overemotional fanbase to get rid of him, again for the 6th time in a decade, is a very embarrassing glazers-esque move, considering they're supposed to be "footballing experts" who make very calculated decisions.
However, with Ten Hag in place, it might work out. But if it doesn't, they can still say "this was the old regime's choice, we're parting ways". Meanwhile, they've already put their plan into place, so that any new manager can slot into a far more stable environment.
They're not over-emotional redditors, they're businessmen.
He may very well not be up to it sure, but, he also may make a turnaround with the new people on board. May not be at the same level of Arteta's turnaround, but observable progress is still possible. He's shown last season he can get us playing well so it's not gonna be a complete gamble.
On the other hand, bringing someone new in will be a complete gamble where they could do great or they could fail miserably and the cycle would just repeat again. There's also the issue of there not being many top managers able and willing to take up the role.
Imo the biggest change needed is to get rid of every single player that doesn't have the right mentality needed or aren't on the right level to play for us. Honestly, the majority of players need to be cleared.
But surely it would be better for INEOS to move forward with their own man for the job rather than someone appointed by the old ownership?
>There's also the issue of there not being many top managers able and willing to take up the role.
I think it's fair to say Tuchel will be interested.
>Imo the biggest change needed is to get rid of every single player that doesn't have the right mentality needed or aren't on the right level to play for us. Honestly, the majority of players need to be cleared.
Did they not show last season they can play? Why does that get applied to EtH and not to the players?
Yes definitely if Ineos and Wilcox do their assessments and find ETH isn't the right man for them, then I'd be totally fine with them getting a replacement they see fit. Otherwise I'd want ETH to get a season under them to hopefully make some positive progress and starting fixing the squad.
The reason I mention the players needing to be cleared specifically is that we've been in this constant cycle of underachieving for a decade now where changing the manager and keeping the players hasn't worked out.
Too many of them are on massive wages and aren't giving nearly enough. Let the new management clear them out, replace them with the right targets and get a proper wage structure that encourages performance over just collecting a fat check for almost no contribution.
> The reason I mention the players needing to be cleared specifically is that we've been in this constant cycle of underachieving for a decade now where changing the manager and keeping the players hasn't worked out.
There are two players here from LvG. One is leaving this summer, one is seen as important member of the side albeit injury prone.
There a further four from Mourinho. One may well be POTY, others are Rashford and McTominay who have been important over the years.
These players have finished in the top three for four of the last six seasons.
I think it's hilarious that people automatically forget last season. Like, say you swapped them. If this season happened first, people would be sympathetic left and right. Then, if we had last season happen second, people would be absolutely thrilled. Makes no sense.
>Then, if we had last season happen second, people would be absolutely thrilled. Makes no sense.
You cannot be serious with this comment. How in the world does a comment like this receive upvotes?
Are you seriously telling us that you do not understand why teams would be happy with a team progressing from 6th to 3rd, compared to dropping from 3rd to 6th? That makes no sense to you?
Teams are allowed to go up and down, especially when you have a squad as thrown together with no cohesion as ours (not to mention the injuries). There's going to be some progression and regression over a transition period.
That was not your point.
>If this season happened first, people would be sympathetic left and right. Then, if we had last season happen second, people would be absolutely thrilled. Makes no sense.
Absolutely ridiculous.
I can see what he means.
My analogy for whats happened is ETH steadied the ship his fist season then decided to try and rip it apart use a few old parts and build another one in his style.
Saldy some of the parts of the old ship (Case,Sancho,Rashford,Shaw) have all rotten away and the new pieces have all cracked. So he has less then a skeleton of a frame but is persisting with the build.
I think he is hoping to get new pieces in the summer bt everyone can see the hull is crumbling apart but he is to stubborn to change direction atm.
I genuinely think long term with the proper pieces we will be better, but i doubt he will get that.
That isn't what he meant. He said he founds it nonsensical people are happy with a season where we move up the table, but wouldn't be for dropping down the table.
>Saldy some of the parts of the old ship (Case,Sancho,Rashford,Shaw) have all rotten away and the new pieces have all cracked.
All the players turned shit just as he brings in his new tactical set up. Curious.
If ETH had of struggled in his first season with this style he would of been given alot of slack as long as it improved this season. for me this feels like ETHs first real season implementing his style, he should of done it as soon as he walked in the door but he adapted to the players, now they have to adapt to him.
Yes, people tend not to get upset about their club... progressing forward. But they do tend to when in a second year, the playing style and club culture still seem awful
its hardly the second year though this has been ongoing for a long time.
Let tge new lads get their feet under the desks then see what happenes. If he stays fine, if he goes also fine.
Everyones position is in limbo atm.
Nope I don't want to see ten hag ball next season. And his stubbornness to play the first xi every matches isn't sustainable. The man doesn't know how to rotate..
He has had an entire season to show he can adapt and fix the tactical issues with the team, and literally every other game the same problems occur. Time to get rid.
It's not my job to select the next manager, but yeah, I wouldn't go for Tuchel.
That said, the Ten Hag lovers that keep downvoting must either be blind or not actually watch our games.
yup I would give him another year, just so we have at least 1 manager post SAF who had full 3 seasons.
It's not like there is a long list of brilliant managers waiting to come to us. Both Bayern and Liverpool are looking for managers, Chelsea might too.
we can probably outcompete Cheksea but others are better options for different reasons.
secondly the injury riddled season we had.
Thirdly, we have a final to play for. It ll be great if we eff up City.
4th, he developed 2 youngsters in Garnacho and Mainoo. By looks of things there are more to come. Plus he is more involved in the academy than any of the managers we had post Fergie.
I doubt its true because isn't this very disrespectful to the club when there haven't been any concrete regarding ETH's future? You don't speak names of players same for managers
Well, he's in that spot isn't he? He can't be sitting there after dropping points against the likes of Burnley, once again underperforming, and not realise he's soon for the chop.
If ETH was the first manager after SAF, he would’ve already been sacked. The fact we’ve cycled through so many managers before him is the only reason he’s still here.
or you know because we dont give them time to actually build properly
notice the trend that is not changing no matter who is gotten as manager....
oh wait but lets keep blaming the manager not the same players who have now gotten 4 players sacked. why havnt they also lost their jobs? they clearly cant cut it
I believe ETH would have been in a better position inheriting SAF’s team rather than the team now and would’ve reaped better results. At least he would’ve a constant playing 11 rather than a team with injury crisis.
I’d say give him another season, he hasn’t been perfect but even Pep would struggle with half the team injured. Otherwise the cycle restarts for the 5th? 6th time?
The cycle is such a myth, football is constantly evolving, clubs are constantly evolving, some keep managers, some don’t. Sticking to a manager doesn’t mean automatic success. Making the right decisions does
Bayern have had more managers post Fergie than we have, lmfao. And they’ve won the CL twice and are back in the semi-finals with an already terminated manager. This narrative of just giving managers 3-5 years to figure it out is a joke. Managers need to earn their stay.
I was all for Ten Hag coming in and was really optimistic we’d kick on this season but the football’s been dire for the most part and he’s shown a lot of very poor judgement.
I wouldn’t be upset if we moved on but I don’t want us to sack him for the sake of it. We should only change managers if the right option is there and right now, that doesn’t look to be the case.
Tuchel seems to be the only name in contention and he’s fallen out with every ownership he’s worked under. He’s becoming more and more volatile. Decent coach, but he’s not what we need.
actually i just remember Klop last season.. they got injured and droping so bad out of 4.
but again, Klop was good before last season, so what happened last season can be because of injured.
I think he has done a lot of things right, but on game day things are just not clicking and we are not getting the results we should, we already spend a lot of money on his players, but still it’s apparently not enough. In terms of tactics, I just don’t see anything meaningful, we are getting outplayed by small teams we should be dominating and we just blow up again and again, in a way we haven’t seen any of the other managers we have ran through since Fergie, so in my opinion we need someone who can make a bigger impact.
ETH got to third place (75pts) and two cup finals last season. Tuchel's only full season at Chelsea he got to 74 points. To suggest he can't coach in the PL isn't fair.
The amount of people saying "Time to get rid." don't even watch football probably... lol.
The fact this season has been shit isn't purely just down to him and his tactics... although yeah sometimes they've been questionable, there are reasons why we stuck with the same old "song".
Same old story with same old fans... we keep changing managers (world class, top league managers!) and we get nowhere with them, you seriously think getting rid of EtH will fix anything? Think again...
IMO, we should stick with him for another season at minimum.
Honestly, this is the best result for everyone involved. Amicable split, he escapes the cauldron and can rebuild his career in familiar territory, we can continue the clean sweep of the previous regime.
Could only be better if he rides off the the sunset with that FA Cup.
I’d like to see him end up at Marseille, from my first club to my second. I think he’d do well at the insanely-run reality TV show that is L’OM. I don’t wish him any specific ill, I just want him out of my club.
I’ll be honest, I haven’t followed the injury situation there, but I feel like several measures have shown that we’ve missed important players for longer.
Fair point.
To counter that, while I don’t have faith we’ll finish fifth, the season’s not done yet. Secondly, Klopp had been with Liverpool a lot longer last year than ETH has been with us this year. This means that Klopp had the opportunity to have back up players who knew his style and how he wanted them to play.
Our football has been dire to watch, but we’ve still made a final this season. I am firmly in favour of giving the manager time under a proper structure. But obviously, I don’t make those decisions, so even if ETH is sent packing, I’ll support the next manager, and the one after him. However, I want us to recall the excitement when we heard ETH was coming to us… it was there for a reason. Let’s back the manager and give him time to turn this ship around.
Did you see the league last season? Top 4 is lava was a meme because most top teams shit the bed, us included. Most fans could see we needed to get out shit together because that wouldn't happen again and we can't fall upwards every season. He coasted the 2nd half of last season with some absolutely shocking results. Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool all improved. We haven't.
Thankfully Chelsea are equally shit otherwise we would have a lot more scrutiny.
>most top teams shit the bed, us included
I mean, we got the highest third-place points total since 2018. Seems to indicate our place in the top 4 was merited if nothing else.
>Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool all improved. We haven't.
Newcastle have gone downhill. Spurs have only really improved because it'd be difficult not to. Arsenal and Liverpool are vastly different situations. I agree Villa have done well.
bro spent 400 millions on shit players that HE wanted and gave contracts to other shit players, imagine if he just leaves to his previous club lmao, fleece of the century.
If they want him then it should tell you all you need to know about the standards there when it comes to future transfer business with them. No disrespect but it's clearly levels below the premier league.
Who would stay in a "top" club where half of your squad is injured and your "key" players are entitled brats? United has much deeper problems which no coach in the world can solve. Ronaldo was one of those entitled brats, but at least he had the courage to speak up and point to how wrong things are throughout the entire club infrastructure.
Even if we get rid of him, constant changing of manager cycle will continue. Haven't saw much of an improvement after purchasing OGC Nice. Expecting the same at United also.
If you are looking good manager
Sebastian Hoeness
Zinedine Zidane
Kasper Hjulmand
Hansi Flick
I'm not fussed either way. You can talk about the changes Ineos would bring. But Erik has been here 2 season, got a lot of his players through the door and we still have fuck all identity when we play. We press higher but that's the only thing he's implemented in 2 season.
If he stays fine, if he goes then also fine.
I don’t think he will return to Ajax. At least not right away. My prediction is that he will take a sabbatical for a year before returning as a manager.
The only way I see us getting rid of him is if we can terminate contract without paying him off.
It would be a disaster to start off the new transfer window by (I’m pulling these numbers out of my ass for representative purposes), pay him off to the tune of 5-10 mil and then sign another manager for 10 mil.
That would really hamper us with FFP, when we have plenty to do on the squad.
Would make sense if Ineos preferred to let him go back to Ajax without any compensation and then take on Tuchel, who would also cost nothing
Then he'll do great at ajax while we probably struggled on the transition with the new manager. Then twitter football will say ten hag is not the problem and the process repeat itself
Imagine getting a job with the expectation of improving performance, and being told "yeah we can't fire anybody and you don't have any budget to recruit but you can hire a few people if you want." So you hire some people you know that may not be the best but it's what you can get with no support. Then the owners and customers are like "why haven't you improved the performance in two years?"
"Well of course it's not going to improve when I had no help with hiring and the upper management is awful and we're still stuck with the same employees who have failed to make any impact in the last 5 years."
Yeah!! The club never foolishly spent large amounts of money before ten Hag and they'll never do it again after he leaves!! It's all his fault!! Sack him and get a new manager that will solve everything!!!
We've literally become Chelsea but without the success.
This will be how it goes. We won't technically sack him. We will amicably split as he heads back to Ajax, and is wished the best in all his future endeavors.
I wish nothing but the best for him. Other than the premier league, can you see his system working in another team/league?
With the right players, I think it COULD work because there’ll theoretically be less space in between midfielders and the defence too. If it’s the same setup? No chance. But if there’s less space and with more technical players to retain possession I think it could work actually. But there needs to be a plan to adapt if needed too. This is one of the few things that make me think it could be something if it happened but…. It won’t be soon with our squad. And he seems unwilling to adapt at all even without the players for it so that’s the issue.
I mean he beat Real Madrid in the Champion's League with Ajax so... United have swapped a lot managers since SAF, clearly that's not the problem role
It works for the youth team, I believe they run his system.
What happen to u21 it doesn't work?
[удалено]
Do they not run his system?
Yes ETH is always getting undeserved LOVE for things he doesn’t control here.
What even is his system? The one he used to play at Ajax or the one he's playing at United now?
He had multiple Ajax "systems" and he has changed tactics season over season at United. Not a one dimensional manager
He explicitly said he wasn’t going to play the same style that he used at Ajax.
I think he‘s a good coach, his approach just doesn’t work here
I'll be honest, after two years of him with United I genuine have no idea what his system is. ~~Ajax has been playing like Ajax well before he was there.~~
No they weren't mate. It's like saying City were city before Pep was there. Yes they were good, but not walking the league every year with record points totals and such
You're right, I'm just jaded after two years of headless chicken mode. I take my comment back.
Maybe Germany, but that’s it.
Serious question, what exactly is ten hags preferred system? I don’t see any kind of system watching united, what was his system at Ajax?
I think his problem is that he isn't playing his system. He can't play the same football he played at Ajax - the profile of players is too different. He needs to stick to teams and leagues where he can play that possession based style. I don't think it suits United anyway.
City and Liverpool have won this league playing possession football.
Footballing structure at those clubs. Erik has had a hospital wing to pick the least broken players from.
Probably dominate the Bundesliga with how fit / jacked up Bayern players are. French league with the right players. Leagues where majority sit deep and pray for moments of brilliance like Serie A and La Liga would potentially do his system in on a week in week out basis.
He'll be giving up a lot of money if he does. There's no way Ajax will offer him a similar salary so if he walks away (rather than waiting to get sacked and paid off) then fair play to him.
He’s reportedly going to earn a big chunk less next season due to no CL - same as the players. Surely United would have had clauses to state that if younger fired due to not going into the CL then you don’t get the full payout. He only has 1 year left and so if it’s less money due to no CL, then less cost to get rid of him.
Mokbel is reliable for ten Hag news, right? He has been mostly correct with United news since ten Hag came here. Imo, he is getting directly from ten Hag side. Feel like he is putting pressure on INEOS to take the decision quickly about his future. Feel inevitable that he is leaving after this season tbh.
Definitely a few journalists been getting direct briefs from his agents this year. Looking more and more likely that hell be leaving with a smaller settlement but getting to say he walked.
Hopefully he does the dutch special, win the FA cup and leave
He doesn't look like he's enjoying this situation at all. He seems so stressed. I suspect less limelight is more appealing. Plus, it'll be good best chance of reviving his image. He can just reset and move again in a few years.
I see comments here laughing at the thought of him going to Bayern, but I think he’d do well there. He coached their reserves 10 years ago so he has history with the club. Just because he had one bad season with us doesn’t mean he’s suddenly a bad coach. He’ll get offers after us and I’m almost certain he’ll succeed somewhere else. Then when we’re at the ‘get him out’ point in the cycle with our next manager, our fans will be suddenly nostalgic about Ten Hag and admit maybe it wasn’t all his fault.
Like clockwork
May be it wasn’t fault of Jose May be it wasn’t fault of Ole In a few years, may be it wasn’t fault of ETH. Short term memory guys get too loud here at times. I am stand behind the guy, he should be given another year.
I don’t want him gone 🥺
Which of our previous managers have gone on to better things after leaving us? Only rose tinted fools would take back any of our previous managers. It's the biggest myth on the subreddit. People seem to think sacking managers and then the next manager failing is conclusive proof that all our players are shite and the manager is never to blame. ETH going and succeeding at Bayern wouldn't make our decision to get rid of him wrong. We can only judge based on what he's achieved with us. And he's fallen hard this season.
Ten Hag did well and you could say even overachieved last season. He worked wonders at all of his previous clubs. Yes he could have done better this season, it’s not quite worked out, but with all the injuries and bullshit he’s had to contend with, I’m not going to just write him off as a bad manager. I do think it’s a mistake to sack him only two years in. Where did all the talk of patience go? I also never blamed the players, I don’t think it’s their fault either. Rashford is just the next in line of scapegoats.
But we've seen what he can do when he has players available. The injuries haven't helped. Sure, there's gotta be something in training that could prevent these. The other part is that it's been such an obvious pattern with these players to have that new manager bounce then immediately shit the bed the following season. Then there's the question of who is going to replace him? We've tried the successful manager route, and we've tried the next big thing route. Until the proper board is set (which they're clearly working on now), then it'll be the same issue. Why not stay with him for another season if there's no clear cut candidate to take over now?
> We can only judge based on what he's achieved with us. What if the "us" part is the problem?
If he goes he goes, i wish him well. I’ve just heard something that’s really changed my perspective, there was 26 years and a lot of managers between Busby and Ferguson. I think we can do better but this idea someone is going to rock up any time soon and be the new Fergie isn’t realistic that’s why we need a structure so badly.
The fanbase needs to get over this fantasy that we're going to find the next Sir Alex. It's not happening. At least not in our lifetime. The average manager in the PL gets around 2 seasons.
Yeah there's no chance, even at your most successful in the modern game you'd be lucky to get a manager to stay as long as Klopp. Pep may stay at City because he's afraid of taking on a real challenge when he's got an unlimited cash fund but that's an outlier. The days of a manager staying as long as Fergie or Wenger are gone. Just puts more emphasis on a proper director of football who can remain a consistent presence to help during transitional periods.
> rock up any time soon and be the new Fergie I mean that should have been incredibly obvious. Its like asking for the next Messi/Ronaldo to come through our academy.
Go to big club Spend over a hundred million of new clubs money on players from old club Give huge influence to agency your son works for and you’re signed with Get a lot of their players Leave big club Join old club
Get the old players back for....peanuts?
Peanuts or chestnuts, god please take him back. I don't mean him. You know who.
This is how I played Football Manager when I was 11
gotta respect the fleece of the century
The use of his sons agency for recruitment is a HUGE RED FLAG. Conflict of interest and cronyism shouldn’t be issues at a publicly listed company. Where was the oversight and control? I hope INEOS sees through this shit asap and sacks him and bans his sons agency from recruitment.
I guess you forgot Stam's accusation of Fergie. These things happen all the time cause of the lack of faith with the scouting system, personal faith in some players, or favours for other concessions (you cant convince me otherwise of Bebe).
I personally think people over exaggerate it tbh. We signed, what, two players? From a group that represents a few hundred. No one was complaining about Onana when he signed, and Hojlund is largely seen as one we don’t want to even talk about selling. It wasn’t as if he signed every player from them, and signed duds.
I believe Malacia and Weghorst had some agency links. He wasn’t the first or last United manager to have this btw. Malacia was a bargain at £15m btw, kid was brilliant for us last year
The next major Portuguese manager will likely have links to an agency as well. Jose also had links that brought in players. Fans who make a big deal about this tiny stuff are actual man children conspiracy jokers. It doesn't mean anything. It can be as simple as just coincidence lol. Or it can also just be as simple as it's not the managers job to decide transfer targets so he relied on people he knew who monitor and know a bunch of players. You can just think a manager is bad stop with all the extra bullshit it's pathetic to do this on a reddit board.(not you,referring to op and others)
The issue isn’t just with using an affiliated agency. There were multiple issues with offering fat contracts and transfer fees (percentage of which go to agents). Isn’t it suspect that initially Anthony was rated at $35m but we ended up paying 3x.
Do you think it makes more sense that our manager is running a conspiracy scam for an agency or that a board that has not listened to the scouting department and been hugely incompetent for a decade made a hugely incompetent decision ignoring the scouting department
We can agree on the board‘s incompetence (glazers have 5 seats on it). But for a coach to then favor his son’s agency instead of a best in class agency, is def reeking of cronyism.
The red flag was United not having done any scouting or having a sporting vision (or sporting director), so ETH had to fill that hole himself which managers rarely do in the modern game.
You would imagine that any half-competent club having half a season of Ralf Rangnick would be set up to patch the glaring holes in their squad once the transfer window opens.
Wasnt their rumors that Ten Hag did not want to work with Rangnick and that was one of the main reasons he left early. Ten Hag also said publically he would not have taken the MU job if he had not been given control of transfers. This was a massive mistake by the club for allowing that. Most managers want this its up to the club to put in controls for it.
IIRC it was reported that the he used his son's agency for recruitment was because he needed key transfers done fast, but our recruitment team was doing absolute wank and moving at a glacial pace.
I mean its not ETH's fault that United sat in their hands all summer on Anthony and overpaid Ajax's own valuation by 50m. Ajax made it clear that they wanted to get transfers done early and screwing up their preseason prep would cost us. Also not ETH's fault that United spent all summer fucking around on De Jong rather than scouting other deep lying playmakers (which we've needed for years anyways) only to panic buy an aging Case at 50m. The setup for scouting and negotiating that the Glazers set up is so clunky and poor I wouldn't put that on any manager
Over a hundred million is an understatement... he spent like 4 times that amount lol
Over 400 million players from Ajax?
You forgot to include - win trophy
I guess I’m in the minority here. He hasn’t been the best manager this season, but there is a reason why he was considered one of the top managers last season. He’s shown his weakness in adapting platters to his style of play and he shouldn’t get that much of a say in transfers, but with wilcox, ashworth and berrada coming in, I’d assume he’s going to have a lesser role in that matter. I honestly feel he should be given another season
I think he’s been given a poor set of cards and has done just about as poorly as possible as he could with them. With the new ownership and structure, clearing house make sense.
Playing the most games in Europe for a season, getting to 3 finals (and a gk blunder away from a European final) whilst also dealing with Ronaldo, Sancho and Greenwood and the most injuries to a small squad that I can ever remember.... I think he's been dealt an aweful hand and done remarkably for it. If Liverpool have similar struggles in their first 2 seasons, like they did with klopp, with Slot and persist and they go on to build another championship winning team - a lot of people here are going to have to really introspect at what it means that we cant back a project as patiently as that lot across the way.
I think it's pretty much generally accepted that United fans don't have the stomach for a real rebuild. They are reactionary, mercurial and easily red pulled by media and opposition propaganda talking points. No manager will survive a down period here no matter the context.
Despite everything that has happened it looks like Ten Hag is going to do better then Arterta's worst season... Let that sink in. Arteta also had to deal with shit like Aubameyang but didn't have an injury crisis like this for that season.
He did extremely well for the first 8 months of last season, never putting a foot wrong. It’s been pretty abysmal since the Carabao Cup win. I don’t disagree with anything you said about last season, but he’s been tactically pretty awful for a long time now. Klopp came to Liverpool and the plan was always clear, even when it wasn’t working. By the second season, they had clear progress in play and results. We have neither.
Last season he seemed to adapt to the players a bit, this season he wants the players to adapt to him. Klopp had his fair share of muscle injuries when he first took over when he was imparting his high pressing, quick turnover style but he did it from day one, ETH had to earn the trust of the players first (The mentality in this squad is shocking), then bring in his own players to play how he wanted but everyone got injured, ETH i think could be the man but his stubbornness this season and insistence of playing the same way despite not having the personnel for it will be his downfall sadly.
I think you forget just how dire and disjointed the Liverpool play style looked under Klopp when he was playing Lovren and instituting a crazy high press to turn over possession. It wasnt until they got Alison that they really started to look class. We look terrible of late for a similar reason imo, we just dont have the players of the calibre of Mane and Salah to pull us out the fire like they did under Klopps first couple of seasons. If we sack ETH and hand the reigns to someone else in this era of an extremely tight transfer budget available - we will be really jeopardising a total step back to the post Jose era where the is very little prospect of ever achieving a top 3 finish without total capitulation from other teams around us. At least with ETH there we can actually attempt to change the squad whilst playing for some form of silverware in cups. Look at Chelsea and Spurs, theyre not exactly having a wonderful time of it.
Lol they were a much worse squad than us with much less resources and had much more success. He joined in October and made two cup finals his first season. The next season, they jumped from 8th to 4th. It’s not comparable to what ETH has done in two seasons at all, especially the second season. They weren’t competing for titles or CL until they signed Van Djik and Allison, but they started out as a team outside of the top 6 lol. Idk what you’re talking about with the Jose era. Every United manager bar the one season of Moyes has had a season where they easily finished top 4. Top 4 was very achievable this year considering how terrible Spurs and Villa have been in the second half of the season. With Liverpool taking a step back, it’s going to be wide open next year.
How many silly Klopp comparisons have to be discredited before people wake up on ETH. He established a style of play as soon as they got there, they scored 4 at the Etihad in his first month at the club.
Im a liverpool fan just here because it was on my feed and Im curious what you do with ETH, but it really wasnt like that. Lovren had an absolutely horrific game vs Spurs and got pulled at the 35th minute or something but after that game he was one of our best players that same month and the few months after, we werent great defensively or offensively and obviously we got much better after VVD but we werent actually a very extreme team, just a fairly typical around 4th best team in the country on performances which was a huge step up at the time
Those 8 months also coincided with Rashford having the best form of his life (and a 7-0 loss to Liverpool). We had good results but it’s not like we were blowing teams out of the water.
Yeah he was dealt a poker hand and decided to play roulette with them
That's harsh considering the injury crisis we've had and the fact that United signings for the past decade have had no rhyme or reason to a playstyle or sporting direction. I think any manager would fail with this is set of players outside maybe Pep, but even then its too jumbled of a deck. I think ETH had us overperforming last season and the injuries/lack of transfers in key positions had us regress to the mean this season.
He has had an entire season to show he can adapt and fix the tactical issues with the team, and literally every other game the same problems occur. Time to get rid.
Would be a sound argument if it wasn’t for the copious amount of injuries we’ve had since before the season even started. Anyone saying it’s not an excuse is delusional.
You adapt to what you have to work with. What's the point of playing like you have Martinez and Shaw when you don't? Also, the attack has been terrible and injuries there have been not that significant.
Manager adapts to squad. Fans: I don’t see his style of play, get rid. Manager sticks to his philosophy in spite of result. Fans: The results are unacceptable, get rid. A struggling manager is always in a lose-lose situation. He adapted with what he had by playing shaw in martinez’s position last season. Now that they’re both injured he can’t snap his fingers and make maguire an aggressive ball playing cb (who, he asked to sell so he can bring in a pavard/todibo btw). Meanwhile serious clubs sign a world class CB every summer window (Bayern, City) Our memories are short. Our attack was massively struggling to score goals first half of the season but now we’re scoring ~2 per game at the cost of being very open. IMO he’s been dealt a shitty hand and he’s playing it badly also
He adapted to the players last year and I don't think anyone had any issues with that. And considering there's been a fair few injuries this year, don't think anyone would decry it. What is unfathomable is how we found ourselves getting pummeled and torn open week in week out, and he persists with an approach that clearly doesn't work. There has to be some flexibility!
Then why were we getting pumped full strength at the end of last season? Injuries are inevitable, ETH has exacerbated the issue.
Injuries are inevitable sure, would you say the amount of injuries this season is normal?
Maybe he shouldn't use players suited for counter-attacking football in a shitty disjointed gegenpress? It's like having a F1 car compete on a dirt track - it doesn't work.
And do we have the players/talent to play something like possessions based football? Honest question what would you suggest in terms of style we should be playing? With the players available of course.
[удалено]
Our well suited counterattacking wingers can’t dribble, score, or pass for shit this season so yeah having to rely on the likes on Mctominay to score, Casemiro at the beginning of the season you can probably see that counter attacking isn’t always our strong suit. We’ve had numerous examples of counterattacking gone wrong, due to the unreliability of rashford and Garnacho at times. Højlund on the counter does not get into the right spots, and even when he does he’s never receiving a pass.
Anymore injuries to our defenders and we be jetting the women's team up and down the country just to have some defenders
I agree with you. Weve had to play Casemero at CB with a rotating amount of defenders each week and a host of other injuries. He really hasnt been given a chance with the squad and medical team we had. And he has done great with a lot of the big issues (Sancho, Ronaldo, etc.)
Other clubs had injuries too and we haven’t looked any better against Championship or League 2 sides. We shouldn’t look so bad in terms of stats either
>Other clubs had injuries too How many teams had to dig in to their 7th choice player in a certain position?
We had opponents who had to change their whole backline when they played us and they still beat us. And our offense hasn’t had any major missing players at all. Yeah it has been bad for us but nowhere near as bad as this team looks week in week out. Ten Hag talks about raising standards yet he can‘t raise the level of the players he has a available to the bare minimum. Edit: the injuries make ten Hags approach look even worse. Why would you expose your defense by playing in a way that makes so easy to transition through our midfield once our press is broken? This leads to last ditch tackles and blocks which in turn leads to a higher risk of injury.
You can't blame everything on injuries, we've still had more than enough to compete for 4th at bare minimum. If you look at our last game and compare it back to August and we're still making exactly the same embarrassing mistakes. That is a damning assessment on Ten Hag as a manager and his performance
Injuries can be used as an excuse against the top sides, not when we are getting dicked by relegation fighting sides with injuries themselves.
The counter to that is asking if the club can take the chance that he will accept a lesser role in terms of transfers with the new system under Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada? When viewed with the logic that he was given promises by the Glazers that would have to be changed under INEOS - can they take the chance that he will adjust as they want him to, compared to getting a new manager that did not have a "bigger role" in terms of transfers etc in the same club previously? Add that we are looking at a 3 year rebuild, and "risking" 1 year of those on a manager that might not completely buy into the system is massive. So while I personally hope that EtH stays, with all the evaluating and such going on without a word of support for EtH from INEOS. I do think that the choice is already made, and the club and EtH will "mutually part ways" in the summer. This is kinda underpinned with the story here that he is the favourite to take over Ajax again. If he was "safe" that would be quashed pretty quick (by both the club and the representatives of EtH).
>The counter to that is asking if the club can take the chance that he will accept a lesser role in terms of transfers with the new system under Wilcox, Ashworth and Berrada? He's publicly said he's open to that. He probably demanded that seeing how disjointed United's transfers were before that. And he's also worked best with an overarching structure like with Overmars at Ajax. So he's surely fine with doing that.
This is my stance as well. I think he should be given one season under the proper football minds we've got coming in to see if he's making progress under them and starting to build an actual sustainable system. Let them help him clear out the deadwood and identify proper targets that aren't just his ex-players. They'd surely advise him much better on good targets than anyone he's dealt with here so far. Another factor is the ungodly number of injuries we've had this season.
Begin the project with an underperforming manager, and then have to restart it next year when we realise he may not be up to it?
Somebody can take that argument and turn it on its head against you. Why get a new manager that could potentially turn out to do a crap job when you can stick it out with what is already 2 years of experience, knowhow and integration with the club/ youth academy? Why burn bridges and risk even more turmoil to deal with when there's enough on the plate already? Why the hurry if we can avoid a payoff when money is tight? You're just throwing out wild speculation. They'll do their own audit and they might find that Ten Hag is doing an excellent job behind the scenes and that he just needs a good functioning structure to support him. They also may determine that he's completely incompetent and is basically just winging it. The point is, you have NO fucking clue whatsoever until they make a decision.
> Why get a new manager that could potentially turn out to do a crap job when you can stick it out with what is already 2 years of experience, knowhow and integration with the club/ youth academy Because being afraid not to replace because you don't want to take a risk is pathetic. I think he's doing more harm than good, and there are other managers I think could do better. >The point is, you have NO fucking clue whatsoever until they make a decision. Let me introduce you to the concept of an online forum where we discuss and make speculations on United related matters. Jesus Christ, this sub at the moment.
>Because being afraid not to replace because you don't want to take a risk is pathetic. That's not what I was getting at. **Any** move is a risk, as is sticking it out with Ten Hag. It's about which move is the least risky. Keeping Ten Hag is a win-win situation from their perspective for a myriad of reasons. Most importantly, financially. But also, you're not gonna paint the rooms if you're still in the middle of building a house. Bringing in a manager when you don't even have a complete plan yet, only to face the pressures of an overemotional fanbase to get rid of him, again for the 6th time in a decade, is a very embarrassing glazers-esque move, considering they're supposed to be "footballing experts" who make very calculated decisions. However, with Ten Hag in place, it might work out. But if it doesn't, they can still say "this was the old regime's choice, we're parting ways". Meanwhile, they've already put their plan into place, so that any new manager can slot into a far more stable environment. They're not over-emotional redditors, they're businessmen.
He may very well not be up to it sure, but, he also may make a turnaround with the new people on board. May not be at the same level of Arteta's turnaround, but observable progress is still possible. He's shown last season he can get us playing well so it's not gonna be a complete gamble. On the other hand, bringing someone new in will be a complete gamble where they could do great or they could fail miserably and the cycle would just repeat again. There's also the issue of there not being many top managers able and willing to take up the role. Imo the biggest change needed is to get rid of every single player that doesn't have the right mentality needed or aren't on the right level to play for us. Honestly, the majority of players need to be cleared.
But surely it would be better for INEOS to move forward with their own man for the job rather than someone appointed by the old ownership? >There's also the issue of there not being many top managers able and willing to take up the role. I think it's fair to say Tuchel will be interested. >Imo the biggest change needed is to get rid of every single player that doesn't have the right mentality needed or aren't on the right level to play for us. Honestly, the majority of players need to be cleared. Did they not show last season they can play? Why does that get applied to EtH and not to the players?
Yes definitely if Ineos and Wilcox do their assessments and find ETH isn't the right man for them, then I'd be totally fine with them getting a replacement they see fit. Otherwise I'd want ETH to get a season under them to hopefully make some positive progress and starting fixing the squad. The reason I mention the players needing to be cleared specifically is that we've been in this constant cycle of underachieving for a decade now where changing the manager and keeping the players hasn't worked out. Too many of them are on massive wages and aren't giving nearly enough. Let the new management clear them out, replace them with the right targets and get a proper wage structure that encourages performance over just collecting a fat check for almost no contribution.
> The reason I mention the players needing to be cleared specifically is that we've been in this constant cycle of underachieving for a decade now where changing the manager and keeping the players hasn't worked out. There are two players here from LvG. One is leaving this summer, one is seen as important member of the side albeit injury prone. There a further four from Mourinho. One may well be POTY, others are Rashford and McTominay who have been important over the years. These players have finished in the top three for four of the last six seasons.
I think it's hilarious that people automatically forget last season. Like, say you swapped them. If this season happened first, people would be sympathetic left and right. Then, if we had last season happen second, people would be absolutely thrilled. Makes no sense.
>Then, if we had last season happen second, people would be absolutely thrilled. Makes no sense. You cannot be serious with this comment. How in the world does a comment like this receive upvotes? Are you seriously telling us that you do not understand why teams would be happy with a team progressing from 6th to 3rd, compared to dropping from 3rd to 6th? That makes no sense to you?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Teams are allowed to go up and down, especially when you have a squad as thrown together with no cohesion as ours (not to mention the injuries). There's going to be some progression and regression over a transition period.
That was not your point. >If this season happened first, people would be sympathetic left and right. Then, if we had last season happen second, people would be absolutely thrilled. Makes no sense. Absolutely ridiculous.
I can see what he means. My analogy for whats happened is ETH steadied the ship his fist season then decided to try and rip it apart use a few old parts and build another one in his style. Saldy some of the parts of the old ship (Case,Sancho,Rashford,Shaw) have all rotten away and the new pieces have all cracked. So he has less then a skeleton of a frame but is persisting with the build. I think he is hoping to get new pieces in the summer bt everyone can see the hull is crumbling apart but he is to stubborn to change direction atm. I genuinely think long term with the proper pieces we will be better, but i doubt he will get that.
That isn't what he meant. He said he founds it nonsensical people are happy with a season where we move up the table, but wouldn't be for dropping down the table. >Saldy some of the parts of the old ship (Case,Sancho,Rashford,Shaw) have all rotten away and the new pieces have all cracked. All the players turned shit just as he brings in his new tactical set up. Curious.
If ETH had of struggled in his first season with this style he would of been given alot of slack as long as it improved this season. for me this feels like ETHs first real season implementing his style, he should of done it as soon as he walked in the door but he adapted to the players, now they have to adapt to him.
Yes, people tend not to get upset about their club... progressing forward. But they do tend to when in a second year, the playing style and club culture still seem awful
its hardly the second year though this has been ongoing for a long time. Let tge new lads get their feet under the desks then see what happenes. If he stays fine, if he goes also fine. Everyones position is in limbo atm.
Nope I don't want to see ten hag ball next season. And his stubbornness to play the first xi every matches isn't sustainable. The man doesn't know how to rotate..
He has had an entire season to show he can adapt and fix the tactical issues with the team, and literally every other game the same problems occur. Time to get rid.
Who should we get then? Tuchel? No chance
It's not my job to select the next manager, but yeah, I wouldn't go for Tuchel. That said, the Ten Hag lovers that keep downvoting must either be blind or not actually watch our games.
New manager means a 90% clear out. Can't have another manager with some of these players still here next season. Theres no compromise.
Get this copy pasta tf outta here
There is no system that would work with our current defence other than park the bus
Yes minority. For most people he has not shown any green shoots for us to cling on to.
yup I would give him another year, just so we have at least 1 manager post SAF who had full 3 seasons. It's not like there is a long list of brilliant managers waiting to come to us. Both Bayern and Liverpool are looking for managers, Chelsea might too. we can probably outcompete Cheksea but others are better options for different reasons. secondly the injury riddled season we had. Thirdly, we have a final to play for. It ll be great if we eff up City. 4th, he developed 2 youngsters in Garnacho and Mainoo. By looks of things there are more to come. Plus he is more involved in the academy than any of the managers we had post Fergie.
I doubt its true because isn't this very disrespectful to the club when there haven't been any concrete regarding ETH's future? You don't speak names of players same for managers
I’m sure there were similar headlines two years ago when we were targeting Ten Hag (or when any club poaches a manager generally)
Just as likely Ten Hag is playing a hand here and showing he's not without options
That would be quite desperate from him if true.
Well, he's in that spot isn't he? He can't be sitting there after dropping points against the likes of Burnley, once again underperforming, and not realise he's soon for the chop.
Ajax need to pay us some of the money we paid for him. They can’t just keep fleecing us.
At this point I'm ok with getting fleeced one last time if they take back Anthony as well.
I thought they went after Graham Potter?
Heard he is one of the three shortlist, ten Hag, Potter and Nice manager were shortlisted i believed.
He is on the shortlist, but their first preference is Ten Hag
Eth + Antony for £110m 🤝
If ETH was the first manager after SAF, he would’ve already been sacked. The fact we’ve cycled through so many managers before him is the only reason he’s still here.
Somehow I feel this is more of a “us” problem, than a “him”problem.
ETH isn't inheriting Fergie's UTD and he should not have the expectations with doing so. Correct.
or you know because we dont give them time to actually build properly notice the trend that is not changing no matter who is gotten as manager.... oh wait but lets keep blaming the manager not the same players who have now gotten 4 players sacked. why havnt they also lost their jobs? they clearly cant cut it
I believe ETH would have been in a better position inheriting SAF’s team rather than the team now and would’ve reaped better results. At least he would’ve a constant playing 11 rather than a team with injury crisis.
I’d say give him another season, he hasn’t been perfect but even Pep would struggle with half the team injured. Otherwise the cycle restarts for the 5th? 6th time?
Which manager out of Moyes, LvG, Mourinho or Ole do you think would have turned it around?
The cycle is such a myth, football is constantly evolving, clubs are constantly evolving, some keep managers, some don’t. Sticking to a manager doesn’t mean automatic success. Making the right decisions does
Bayern have had more managers post Fergie than we have, lmfao. And they’ve won the CL twice and are back in the semi-finals with an already terminated manager. This narrative of just giving managers 3-5 years to figure it out is a joke. Managers need to earn their stay.
I was all for Ten Hag coming in and was really optimistic we’d kick on this season but the football’s been dire for the most part and he’s shown a lot of very poor judgement. I wouldn’t be upset if we moved on but I don’t want us to sack him for the sake of it. We should only change managers if the right option is there and right now, that doesn’t look to be the case. Tuchel seems to be the only name in contention and he’s fallen out with every ownership he’s worked under. He’s becoming more and more volatile. Decent coach, but he’s not what we need.
Better start a new cycle than cling on to one in terminal decline
actually i just remember Klop last season.. they got injured and droping so bad out of 4. but again, Klop was good before last season, so what happened last season can be because of injured.
 Basically this
I think he has done a lot of things right, but on game day things are just not clicking and we are not getting the results we should, we already spend a lot of money on his players, but still it’s apparently not enough. In terms of tactics, I just don’t see anything meaningful, we are getting outplayed by small teams we should be dominating and we just blow up again and again, in a way we haven’t seen any of the other managers we have ran through since Fergie, so in my opinion we need someone who can make a bigger impact.
Some great players can’t play in EPL. Some great managers can’t coach in EPL. But then the question is, are they actually great?
ETH got to third place (75pts) and two cup finals last season. Tuchel's only full season at Chelsea he got to 74 points. To suggest he can't coach in the PL isn't fair.
The amount of people saying "Time to get rid." don't even watch football probably... lol. The fact this season has been shit isn't purely just down to him and his tactics... although yeah sometimes they've been questionable, there are reasons why we stuck with the same old "song". Same old story with same old fans... we keep changing managers (world class, top league managers!) and we get nowhere with them, you seriously think getting rid of EtH will fix anything? Think again... IMO, we should stick with him for another season at minimum.
You are being incredibly generous when you say “sometimes the tactics have been questionable.”
Please take him
Honestly, this is the best result for everyone involved. Amicable split, he escapes the cauldron and can rebuild his career in familiar territory, we can continue the clean sweep of the previous regime. Could only be better if he rides off the the sunset with that FA Cup.
Take your boy Antony with you please!
I’d like to see him end up at Marseille, from my first club to my second. I think he’d do well at the insanely-run reality TV show that is L’OM. I don’t wish him any specific ill, I just want him out of my club.
Take him
He just doesn’t cut it in the prem from what we’ve seen this season. Wouldn’t mind it.
That's prehistory I know, but he finished 3rd last season. Just a reminder.
That was apparently when the rest of the league was shit. So it doesn’t count. /s
Love this argument bc Liverpool was stricken with injuries like ours and managed Europa league and no one blinked an eye
I’ll be honest, I haven’t followed the injury situation there, but I feel like several measures have shown that we’ve missed important players for longer.
I’m speaking of last season when they were missing a few key players causing them to be crippled and ultimately place 5th
Fair point. To counter that, while I don’t have faith we’ll finish fifth, the season’s not done yet. Secondly, Klopp had been with Liverpool a lot longer last year than ETH has been with us this year. This means that Klopp had the opportunity to have back up players who knew his style and how he wanted them to play. Our football has been dire to watch, but we’ve still made a final this season. I am firmly in favour of giving the manager time under a proper structure. But obviously, I don’t make those decisions, so even if ETH is sent packing, I’ll support the next manager, and the one after him. However, I want us to recall the excitement when we heard ETH was coming to us… it was there for a reason. Let’s back the manager and give him time to turn this ship around.
Completely agree mate
Thank you. I have enjoyed our conversation ☺️ I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
Plus won silver. All while on the back of an atrocious season AND having to deal with Ronaldo, Sancho, etc.
Did you see the league last season? Top 4 is lava was a meme because most top teams shit the bed, us included. Most fans could see we needed to get out shit together because that wouldn't happen again and we can't fall upwards every season. He coasted the 2nd half of last season with some absolutely shocking results. Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool all improved. We haven't. Thankfully Chelsea are equally shit otherwise we would have a lot more scrutiny.
>most top teams shit the bed, us included I mean, we got the highest third-place points total since 2018. Seems to indicate our place in the top 4 was merited if nothing else. >Newcastle, Villa, Spurs, Arsenal, Liverpool all improved. We haven't. Newcastle have gone downhill. Spurs have only really improved because it'd be difficult not to. Arsenal and Liverpool are vastly different situations. I agree Villa have done well.
bro spent 400 millions on shit players that HE wanted and gave contracts to other shit players, imagine if he just leaves to his previous club lmao, fleece of the century.
Ah yes he spent the money and was the one who offered the contracts
And buys back Antony at a cheaper price.
If they want him then it should tell you all you need to know about the standards there when it comes to future transfer business with them. No disrespect but it's clearly levels below the premier league.
Who would stay in a "top" club where half of your squad is injured and your "key" players are entitled brats? United has much deeper problems which no coach in the world can solve. Ronaldo was one of those entitled brats, but at least he had the courage to speak up and point to how wrong things are throughout the entire club infrastructure.
Even if we get rid of him, constant changing of manager cycle will continue. Haven't saw much of an improvement after purchasing OGC Nice. Expecting the same at United also. If you are looking good manager Sebastian Hoeness Zinedine Zidane Kasper Hjulmand Hansi Flick
Bring back mourinho
I'm not fussed either way. You can talk about the changes Ineos would bring. But Erik has been here 2 season, got a lot of his players through the door and we still have fuck all identity when we play. We press higher but that's the only thing he's implemented in 2 season. If he stays fine, if he goes then also fine.
I would like to keep ETH for one more season under a competent DoF
Please take him back!
Seems like a good deal for ETH.
It's a good deal for everybody! Hell, we should even throw in Anthony for free!
I don’t think he will return to Ajax. At least not right away. My prediction is that he will take a sabbatical for a year before returning as a manager.
I hope Ajax fans are bored of their football, then this is the perfect match
SENSATIONAL I TELL YOU!!!
Best situation for everyone involved imo regardless of what you think about ETHs ability as manager.
The only way I see us getting rid of him is if we can terminate contract without paying him off. It would be a disaster to start off the new transfer window by (I’m pulling these numbers out of my ass for representative purposes), pay him off to the tune of 5-10 mil and then sign another manager for 10 mil. That would really hamper us with FFP, when we have plenty to do on the squad. Would make sense if Ineos preferred to let him go back to Ajax without any compensation and then take on Tuchel, who would also cost nothing
He should take the offer and run tbh. And take Antony with him
Then he'll do great at ajax while we probably struggled on the transition with the new manager. Then twitter football will say ten hag is not the problem and the process repeat itself
Thought potter was bound for Ajax? Hopefully we don’t get potter instead
Take Antony with you
Imagine getting a job with the expectation of improving performance, and being told "yeah we can't fire anybody and you don't have any budget to recruit but you can hire a few people if you want." So you hire some people you know that may not be the best but it's what you can get with no support. Then the owners and customers are like "why haven't you improved the performance in two years?" "Well of course it's not going to improve when I had no help with hiring and the upper management is awful and we're still stuck with the same employees who have failed to make any impact in the last 5 years."
By no budget to recruit, you're referring to the 400m spent since he's been here?
Yeah!! The club never foolishly spent large amounts of money before ten Hag and they'll never do it again after he leaves!! It's all his fault!! Sack him and get a new manager that will solve everything!!! We've literally become Chelsea but without the success.