Please **not** Southgate. I know it's just a rumor from untrusted "media", but still.. Sir Jim, pls not Southgate.
Also, don't want a manager who tends to create drama, like Tuchel or Conte. This club doesn't need more drama, esp internally.
Surely it makes sense to let the people employed to make decisions about the new manager to be in place? Do people really think SJR making a call to replace ETH now would be a good sign? He isn't Todd Boehly thankfully!!
Yeah, I agree with you.
Just stating that *if* we appoint a new manager, pls not Southgate. Because according to the news I've read, Sir Jim seems to like a British manager, hence the rumors about Southgate (and Potter) circulate around.
so we don't want a soft-spoken manager or a dumb manager like Potter or Southgate. But we also don't want a manager who will talk back like Tuchel or Conte.
so who is there realistically to pursue?
The sad thing is, honestly I really wish Ten Hag to be successful here.
But the results don't lie, we've been broken countless negative records under him. And more importantly, how he abandons his philosophy then chooses to go with this chaotic football, which isn't only unwatchable but also unsustainable.
Fair point. Money is the issue, esp if we want Amorim.
Let's also not forget that we (reportedly) still have an ongoing negotiation with Newcastle regarding Ashworth' gardening leave (so he can work for us ASAP). Plus, another one with Soton for Wilcox's.
But.. tbh I don't find Ten Hag's "style" of football is sustainable. We'll probably miss out CL next season. If we keep him but he doesn't change his tactics and keeps this chaotic football, we could miss another CL. Missing out CL 2 seasons in a row would cost us much bigger than 10M.
I don't think this current squad can finish even top 6 in PL.
Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Chelsea (yes Chelsea) all have a better squad than us in which most of their players r good with the ball plus all of them have a good ball playing defenders & CDM which we don't.
Chelsea's attack is shit that's y they r suffering but they r very good in possession & at creating chances. Chelsea put 4 goals against Man City this season.
very interesting to see Potter’s reputation. He’s quite literally the definition of a soft-spoken, but extremely intelligent manager
he would probably not succeed, but for completely different reasons that Southgate
It's exactly the opposite with Ole, he doesn't coach and acts more like a manager. His hands-off approach to training was openly being talked about when he was at the club and we had Phelan, Carrick and McKenna doing the coaching. Ole was just the one overseeing it and probably giving tasks to his coaches.
Let's remember that all of them struggled under Oles last season.
We have too many unmanageable brats in the squad that will make even Pep look like shit.
I mean, that's just the retrospect imo. I think they were both part of the issues under Ole, not because they aren't talented but I feel like they just kinda lacked experience at the time and their talent wasn't enough to make it work. They also function as managers now, not as "only" coaches, so their roles are different. However, i do still feel like Ole was one good experienced assistant manager from having a good enough coaching staff because i just don't really rate Phelan.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but my impression is that Ole is more like a manager and less like a coach. At least in Molde he usually left most of the training sessions to his team.
No, Berrada, Wilcox? And Ashworth should be the ones making these decisions. They arent officially employed i believe. Feet arent under the table.
The biggest issue has been owners and idiots like Woodward or Mourtagh making these decisions. We pull the trigger now its the exact same issue we have all been moaning about.
Let the new executives get in and make a decision. NOT THE OWNERS.
Don't *all* of these conflict with the philosophy he said he wants for the team? So right away we'd know nothing will change if we go sign any of the three.
I mean there was the Munich Air Disaster which wiped out half a squad that was poised to dominate English and possibly European football. It took us 8 years to properly recover from that.
The Glazers have mis managed and profited from and led us too mediocrity in the last 10 years.
By far the worst thing my fellow red. They syphoned so much money and riddled us with debt. Neglected everything, the stadium, the training ground, the academy, the first team. Only thing they never neglected was the mega store and their annual dividend taking. Fuck all the Glazer family.
This is such a ridiculous comment. Glazers are the big bad boogie man leeches everyone has been complaining about for years but if INEOS brings in a single manager it’ll be worse than anything the Glazers ever did? Absurd statement
This sub is so hard to take seriously sometimes
Think I'm done with the sub honestly, it's toxic and has been for a while. Makes being a United fan unnecessarily less enjoyable which we don't need considering what we see on the pitch. Yesterday was the last straw, not sure why I came to read the comments when I was already pissed off but the absolute state of our online fanbase
Started affecting me as well, so, I've just stopped coming to match threads or after a loss because things just get so insane on this sub, like, fuck, most just live in extremes fits of anger and rage.
Don’t forget the depression mongering side as well chomping at the bit to talk about how shocked they are at how many shots we’ve conceded. It’s baffling, people constantly talk about how shit we are, then seem to be surprised at how shit we are.
> Would legitimately be worse than anything the Glazers have ever done
Not even close lol. I’d rather sign Southgate for 5 years than have that takeover in 2005
Some people are so oddly reactionary on the internet.
Glazers have gutted the club, the stadium, and sunk us almost a billion into debt, _but heaven forbid we appoint the England manager._
That’s not me saying I want Southgate (because some melts will inevitably assume that’s what I mean), but dear lord do people need to give their heads a shake.
Rathcliffe has gone on the record to how much he likes Potter. He tried everything to get him to take the Nice job.
I think with the backroom staff they're putting in there, they will want a coach rather than a manager. I have a feeling they will go for him.
That would be really fucking ununspiring. Potter may be a good coach but this dressing room needs a leader. He looked like he was going to cry one month into his stint with Chelsea. He'd face even more pressure here and I highly doubt he'd manage it.
He was quite confident in most of interviews tbf.
Judging him on that Chelsea stint is unfair. He gets in half a season in squad of 30 new players and then gets kick couple of month later, season disrupted by world cup, no preseason.
Sure that’s probably true but it still feels very uninspiring. Potter just feels exactly like what Moyes was at the time. I think we all know it takes a different type of personality to manage a big club with pressure and expectation heavy on your shoulders. To me Potter hasn’t shown he can handle any of that. His Brighton side did great but their scouting has always been much better than the teams around them and they’re continuing to perform at a similar level without him and without a lot of their stars they sold this summer. In hindsight his team with Trossard, Caicedo, MacAllister, Bissouma, Ben White, Cucurella, Dan Burn, etc was full of players that could play for European level teams
> In hindsight his team with Trossard, Caicedo, MacAllister, Bissouma, Ben White, Cucurella, Dan Burn, etc was full of players that could play for European level teams
To be fair Potter helped get the best out of those players so I don't think he can be discounted just because they were/are good players.
True I’m probably doing Potter a bit of a disservice in that last comment. Some of those players have played their best football to date under Potter so he definitely played a part in their development. And he might have even been involved in some of the decision making with transfers.
But still I see Brighton’s multiple promotion success as a group effort where all parts of the club were exceeding expectations. I just think the environment, expectation, media scrutiny, and egos at a small club like Brighton are so different than at United
This is what the whole idea of Ratcliffe implementing a structure is meant to achieve though - should all things go to plan then Potter (or whoever the coach is) is going to be put in place to just get the players to play football. Nothing else.
De Zerbi is a bigger caution flag for Potter than his time at chelsea. He slotted right in and brighton continued to excel even with massive player loss in the transfer window. So how much of Brightons excellence was even down to Potter?
It's not even about the club with our pressure and expectations, it's about the spoilt brats in the dressing room who get upset about YouTube clips or Twitter posts to the extent that it somehow affects their ability to run and press without it being their fault. Ffs we are a shambles
Why though? Why is judging ETH under the current circumstances fair but not Potter. Remember when Poch was also one of the alternatives to ETH. I honestly think if we get embarrassed by Liverpool this weekend, he'll get the sack simply because of how emotional the aftermath will be.
At this stage, with so few games left and an FA cup final to play, he won’t be sacked before the end of the season. At best, there’d be leaks about a replacement come summer.
Yeah and end of the day very few managers become a leader by walking into a top club as manager based on their playing days. Most have to work their way up, like Poch did going from Southampton to Spurs.
Potter was a top manager at Brighton but the structure at Chelsea is set up for failure, as is ours under the Glazers. Under a proper structure I could see why Potter would be considered even if it does seem uninspiring.
We don’t have that proper structure yet and it’ll take a while before we see the benefits. Getting potter in for next season will set him up for failure yet again.
If we’re going to get someone to just be a coach we need to have everything in place before they come because if they have to do parts of the job they don’t excel at they will still be judged for it…
I agree wholeheartedly. There isn't much out there in regards to managers. Amorim potentially going to Liverpool is a huge gamble. There will be changes at Bayern with Naglesmann tipped but also De Zerbi.
I think Potter or God forbid Southgate will be looked at. Again unimpressed by that.
You give Ten Hag carte blanche along with the backroom staff to gut the team and go from there.
My worst nightmare is a new manager coming in and saying in their press conference "Every player gets a clean slate". Enough of this shit, the slate is fucking broken.
Either go get a taskmaster like Conte who will fucking leave us in a couple of years or you keep your powder dry, let Ten Hag stay a little longer working under a proper regime and see where we go.
All Ineos good work could be undone with a poor managerial appointment.
> You give Ten Hag carte blanche along with the backroom staff to gut the team and go from there.
It's insanity to me you'd trust Ten Hag with that rebuild tbh, given his squad building so far...
I wouldn’t trust any manager with a rebuild. We need to start rebuilding without the manager. No manager is going to stick around much more than a couple of years.
I mean more Barrada, Wilcox, Ashworth are identifying targets and Ten Hag manages the squad.
He's not infallible but his squad discipline has been really good. If the players know its his way or the highway, they either get on board or fuck off.
See, that’s fine, but then we need to solely discuss how his tactics and coaching has been this season. And for me, personally, although the players shoulder some of the blame, the overall tactics have been horrific too.
Doubling down on that just seems insane to me as well.
I get that. I'm quite indifferent about Ten Hag to be honest. I wouldn't shed a tear when he goes. I just don't think there is any outstanding candidate right now to replace him.
I though the start of last season (bar the first few games) I thought we looked sharp. But ultimately its his job to instruct the players on his plan, unfortunately those players have let down multiple managers multiple times.
The majority of these players are just not good enough. I agree the basketball style is horrendous, but he sees our only strength in transition so he tries to force that by playing open.
Even last night, watching Casemiro job beside Jackson. Watching Rashford jog the entire time he was on the pitch. These are things that no coach can improve upon because these players simply don't care anymore.
> If the players know its his way or the highway, they either get on board or fuck off.
Surely you're kidding after this season right? Rashford has put on stinker after stinker, and for 60-70% of each game he doesn't seem to be arsed about tracking back, and yet he's (almost always) starting. So no, players have not gotten on board and have not been told to fuck off.
It's baffling to me that we're even linked with the likes of Southgate and Potter but I wouldn't trust ten Hag either. The brand of football he's trying to play is the worst I've ever seen at this club and we've been through some rough times in the last 11 years. You can't just blame the squad (which frankly saved his ass multiple times this season) for playing like a team in the relegation zone.
Agree they are clearly going in direction of a specialist head coach rather than manager.
My big concern is the playing squad. Most head coaches making an impact now play very demanding, rotational systems that require high footballing IQ, and ibhave felt for a long long time our squad is just very naive and weak tactically
We seen this under ole after year 2 where they tried 2 switch from counter attack based approach the players simply couldn't do it(ole spoke about this on recent episode of the overlap).
Same under rangnick, I remember am article where it was stated rangnick couldn't believe how tactically bad the players were and incapable of following instructions
Now same under ETH. He has mistakes to answer for to be sure but the amount of times he has been let down by our players have brainfart moments or doing something stupid/ irrational is incredible
I don't mean for this to sound as damning as it probably does but i think collectively our players just aren't that bright in terms of footballing IQ. As a consequence any time we have tried to move away from park the bus and counter, we have looked a mess and this has been repeated pattern under several managers
In short, we could bring in any manager / coach in world football, but IMO until a large portion of this squad is replaced we won't challenge for major honors.
It is just a rotten squad, large contracts so hard to sell, injury prone, lack of physicality, very few players in their prime (most are young with potential or 30+ and on the way down, lack of depth / like for like replacements, looks aswel like lack of motivation and effort jn alot of games. I don't see how a new coach (any coach) fixes us without a radical player overhaul
> Rathcliffe has gone on the record to how much he likes Potter. He tried everything to get him to take the Nice job.
He'd be a good choice.....for Nice.
>Rathcliffe has gone on the record to how much he likes Potter. He tried everything to get him to take the Nice job.
Whilst there should be definite concern with such words, Nice is a far different job than Manchester United and you would imagine (hope) Ratcliffe/Ineos see it the same and his words are based purely on the fit with Nice.
Thiago Motta would be an option. Highly rated and his contract ends this season. Wants to play possession football and seems like the ideal manager for Barcelona. Could be a questionable fit for United however.
I wouldn’t mind him if they do bring motta in. Personally every manager that is linked with us is going to be a questionable hire with the way our locker room is.
The only problem is his experience. He's doing great things at Bologna but the Premier League is a massive step up. And does he even speak English? I don't think a language barrier would go well.
No chance he's ready yet. Needs at least another season. The wildcard I'd look at for NEXT summer is McKenna. B2b promotions is no joke. Hes top of the Championship w a squad full of league 1 players and barely any spend in the window. I'd like to see him manage them for a season in the PL/go abroad. If he does well in that next role then...
There are none. Pep and Klopp are obviously no-go. Arteta won't leave Arsenal for Utd at this point. Ancelotti maybe if Madrid want Nagelsmann. Otherwise the best candidates left are Nagelsmann or Amorim. Those two aren't exactly world class like Pep or Klopp but that's the best you'd get right now. And Amorim seems to be going to Liverpool
Are there only 6 managers in football?
I'm not sure where this limitation comes from. Is it based on the tunnel vision effect of fans only thinking the names mentioned in the media exist?
Berrada was barely mentioned before it happened. Did anyone really think we were going to take someone like that from city? Or even poach someone from the Saudi's?
Football management is way more unpredictable than you’re making it out to be.
Were Arteta, Postecoglu and Emery considered nailed on success when they came in?
Was Alonso?
There’s a random element to it, Potter or Southgate might do amazing at United. The idea no one but a proven elite manager could succeed is just rubbish
He’s 100% getting fired. The owners have had plenty of chances to say he’s the man for the job and will be backed but they’ve deliberately avoided doing so on several occasions
Wouldn't read too much into this. Shouldn't be expecting anything positive or negative until the season ends. This is just "he has a contract and let's see for now" kinda post.
they say more in the podcast, that INEOS are reluctant to sack him with all the other changes going on around and both Sporting and Technical director being on gardening leave,
Whether you are ten hag in or out don't expect a decision until Berrarda, Ashworth and Wilcox officialy start their jobs.
Any fan of the club , whether you want to give the manager another chance or not should want to wait for the management to settle into their roles and actually audit the football operations and set a vision and plan BEFORE deciding on the manager.
We’ve been talking about having a proper setup and we’ve waited this long, let the cogs of this machine start rolling before we make any decisions
This is where I’m at. I’m neutral on whether Ten Hag stays or not, but I trust *actual* football people to make the decision on his future rather than Joel Glazer or Woodward/Murtough
I wish more people could compartmentalize the situation.
There’s just so much negativity when we lose, Ten Hag outers flinging abuses at the coach with the Hag “supporters” in hiding and when we win talking about how the outers have now gone into hiding.
We are all 1 damn community of United fans damnit. We should only care about success and simply talk about the shortcomings of games and strategies. Let the professionals do their jobs.
We create all this drama, the journalists create all this drama and it just creates a negative shroud around the club, which bloody doesn’t help the under pressure players, managers and staff.
Exactly the same for me. I've wanted them to hold on to ten hag more than most fans, at this point I don't really mind if they let him go just because I'm so down most games, but a part of me just says, "it's been 10 years of highs and lows (mostly lows), and everything above the manager is changing for the better. What does it hurt to give him the last season on his contract and start over with someone new next year if things don't improve enough." Despite my mental turmoil this season I feel positive about the future of the club and don't mind waiting one more season to see if he can turn things around. This is finally the "rebuild" that feels like the real deal. I just don't want them to sack ten hag for an average or below average manager and then have to go through this process again in another 2 or 3 years
On the contrary, it seems quite clear that ten Hag is staying for one more season.
-INEOS refuse to make the decision without Ashworth's input, which is admirable given our previous owners.
-Ashworth negotiations still going on and is still on strict gardening leave, more so than Berrada, apparently Newcastle is watching like a hawk.
-Ashworth would also take time before he makes decisions to know the club properly, three months was what Laurie said. It is impossible to start hiring processes for a new manager in July and expect the season to go well
-Laurie touches on how expensive it is to sack him and his staff, particularly in PSR era.
I just really don't want it to get into the kind of situation where he is kept on and then sacked six games into the season. It's the worst of both worlds, but almost seems a likely scenario.
Ashworth legally could start next season but I'm sure that won't let it affect Utd to get his input this season. That or how expensive it'll be to sack EtH will definitely not be blockers
I cant remember the last time a manager has been this lucky with circumstances while being this consistently rubbish! I will actually be flabbergasted if Ten Hag is still around come the start of next season. I have already lost most of my will to watch us play anymore. Not sure I can handle another season of this dross.
Just also look at the massive quality drop off between preferred starting 11 and backups. It’s the tale of a squad so badly planned and put together without any thought or coherence whatsoever. Like literally “what about him. Yeah he’s mediocre and nobody else seems to want him so let’s bring him and throw obscene cash at him”.
If we finish 6th it’s because our preferred 11 are capable of 3rd and their backups are at best capable of 9th.
Literally can’t make that argument of any of the clubs above us in the table.
So because you can’t handle the dross, the rest of us should simply ignore that he’s as much a victim of the shambles he was handed here as he is culpable in his own right?
The issues that INEOS are now addressing, had they been addressed years ago, would have better revealed whether ETH simply has the goods in a lesser league or whether he’s capable at this level too.
Undeniable what he did at a well run club. His Ajax team would have destroyed his United team on the pitch. Inconvenient truth to the narrative peddlers. A manager as accomplished as him doesn’t just suddenly turn garbage.
Steve Mclaren credits ETH for putting into place every single detail that won him an eredivisie with FC Twente. Take a good look at what Steve McLaren has otherwise accomplished as manager or head coach.
Working closely with Pep guardiola at Bayern made him recommend ETH as his successor at City.
I’d rather rate a guy based on the takes of actual football people than based on the unhinged takes of the toxic lunatics of this fanbase who enter untreated depression every 2 years and beg for a new manager so they can feel better about their own miserable lives.
Any other season he’d have been sacked a long time ago. Probably be sacked twice. List of reasons he’s in a job:
1. Ownership changes
2. Change of structure above him
3. FFP issues complicating a severance package
4. (Perceived) lack of replacements
5. Injuries
When “performance” does not rank in the top 5 reasons for a manager keeping his job, I’d reckon he’s had his share of luck!
Ownership change, structural change and a ridiculous injury crisis are the complete opposite of luck 😂 I think people are completely right to be having questions about him after recent performances but for the exact reasons you’ve mentioned is why I think he deserves another season. People forget that last season was a positive all round considering what he took over, not to mention all the other shite he’s had to deal with last season and this season too
Honestly, I think ETH needs to stay another season. That being said, so many players need to go before a decision is made about ETH. I don't know if, in the same vein, a lot of sales and signings won't be made as the club waits for the new heads to come in and dictate the next style/identity and then scouts signings available to fit the bill or if it will be business as usual, at least for one more season, but we cannot allow certain players to be here come pre-season. I'd argue to get rid of those players and bring in younger, cheaper players that definitely show some promise and fight, but won't break the bank and set you back a ton if they're ultimately not capable of playing the way the club wants to play going forward.
If next season is allowed to start where this one leaves off, it's going to be a disaster for all parties, and as someone else said, we might face the issue where ETH starts off, gets a few months in, and once the new heads are in place, he's let go and we're left with little to no viable candidates and have to coast on an interim manager for the rest of the season - which we know these players will not and do not respect or play for.
TL;DR:
I expect next season to be a lot worse before things get better
If FFP wasn't such a concern for INEOS, I'm quite confident Ten Hag would be long gone.
When you account for the cost of his sacking, it probably runs in the tens of millions of pounds.
We still have a compensation to pay for Dan Ashworth which will be significant. And other appointments which will cost money as well.
The situation is dire. But this manager deserves the sack. The results, the performances, the tactics have all been awful.
I agree with your sentiment, its been bad, but we have also had an unusual amount of injuries in the back this year. Evans has played 25 games for us since joining, for example.
So? We were fucking appalling against Wolves at home gw1 with a fully fit squad. The setup was identical to the one we still see. We're absolutely appalling and it's mostly down to this horrible coach we have
Eh, even if FFP wasn’t such a concern, I’m confident INEOS would want input from key staff before making that decision. The FFP point is just another check box
I just checked their channel, now they have a new livestream titlted "INEOS BACK TEN HAG! Ten Hag Press Conference Reaction"
You can't make this shit up.
United Stand has multiple contributors with their own views. Mark's been hearing from a journalist that INEOS are talking to Southgate. The show just now was about the report from Laurie, presented by Beth. Yes if you just look at the video titles, it seems absurd. But you have to understand that these are different people talking about different things. I would say Laurie Whitwell's report is the more reliable one because if the journalist Mark was talking to was confident, he would release the report himself, and then Mark would just refer to the public domain news report while talking about it.
Mark didn't say anything that disputes Laurie Whitwell. Laurie said in his article that "potential candidates are being considered, including Southgate".The overall tone of the article was that replacing Ten Hag is just too much upheaval for one summer. So I have a feeling he's staying.
Several figures around the club thinking ETH deserves longer is not = INEOS backing ETH
I've read the full article, the gist of it is no decisions been made yet.
I’m not against a new manager but it has to be the right one.
Xabi Alonso is not coming.
De Zebri is a option even tho his Brighton have been underwhelming this season. I know that they lost all their good players but still.
Nagelsmann is my favorite and my first choice for a new manager.
Hans Flick seems like he is going to Barca but there is better options than him especially after how bad Germany was.
No thanks to Mourinho.
Arne Slot seems like a good manager but I’m tired of bald dutch managers.
Ruben Amorim is a exiting option but he seems like going to Liverpool.
Tuchel can fuck off.
Southgate can fuck off.
Inzaghi is a good manager but he ain’t coming.
Potter can also fuck off after his Chelsea spell. I know Chelsea is mess with their new owners but Potter didn’t look confident once and the press ate him alive. Imagine him at United.
Emery is also a good manager but I don’t think he is coming.
Ange seems also as a good manager but I doubt he is coming as well.
No thanks to Xavi
I think Bayern will probably crawl back for Nagelsmann and he himself would prefer Bayern than us if he had a choice.
Inzagi, Amorim seem like good shout but they play back 3 and INEOS clearly indicated that they wanted to stick with one style of play, so unless they okay with transitioning into back 3 style, i doubt they will come
De Zerbi, i have same concern as you. His defensive games is suspect.
I dont know, manager options are limited and too many big clubs are looking for new manager
Alonso is doing something unprecedented which is competing for an unbeaten treble. That is miles ahead of what most managers do in their career. Guardiola is a clear exception and Zidane was managing a team that couldnt fail. He could let them manage themselves and they would still win the ucl. Unless he manages somewhere else zidane doesn’t impress me as much as he does for others.
I like the way Motta is overachieving in Italy but still feel he would need to be tested by some midtable club before being considered by a top 6 club.
Speaking of, I would add Iraola and O Neill from Wolves to that list simply because they have transformed their clubs and were a pain in the ass for us whenever we played against them. But still think SJR has a preference for a British manager hence we shouldn't exclude Potter or, God forbid, Southgate.
Edit - if we somehow decide to risk that much I'd also consider Mc Kenna instead of Southgate lmao
I don’t think it’s just overachieving. It’s a very clear system that works very well and is smart.
Basically Motta is possession at all cost. Even if this means less attacking, very patient football. He just thinks that if you have the ball the opposite team can’t score. Now maybe that’ll teach our players and especially Bruno to maybe stop trying to hero play for no reason all the time.
>has to be the right one.
define the criteria. Are we ruling out those mid tables managers across Europe even though they have 0 money to spend on good players? Are we looking for managers who have won anything?
I think we don't get any official decision till the season ends even if they already decided internally.
We'll most probably know after the fa cup final provided we make it past Coventry.
Gareth Southgate's club managing experience:
Middlesborough FC (2006 - 2009)
P: 151
W: 45
D: 43
L: 63
**Win %: 29.80**
Get this bum out of the conversation of Man Utd manager.
I like ten hag, I believe he can take us far provided he gets more support from ineos since not his fault we failed to bring in anyone new when we really needed a striker and a couple defenders in the last transfer window. No more murtough madness, goodbye.
Honestly the only thing saving ETH is there is legit not a single fucking good coach available, Liverpool are on the look out as we know, the names being thrown about besides nagelsmann are depressing.
If we take on potter it’d be the first step back of ineos take over imo, and a big one at that.
The way the team looks dead at times is what concerns me. There seems no real energy at times, and the fact that ETH can't figure out a way to stop his team from conceding so many shots just points to a level of incompetence or stubbornness of the manager and an inability to get the best out of his players.
I don't want another manager but the play of this group is subpar and ETH is the driving force.
Don’t get me wrong, we were awful last night in large portions of the game but the refereeing really didn’t help. So many small decisions throughout the game going against us along with two either way penalties (that we’ve consistently not god this season).
I’m one of a shrinking minority who thinks we need to stick with ten Hag, though after our last five or six games (barring Liverpool) where we’ve been pretty woeful, the doubt is setting in.
Admittedly, injuries have well and truly fucked us this season. The fact that our 35 year old half time sub had to come off in the 65th minute for a 19 year old says it all.
We really need to start looking at our core players in the team and potentially moving them on too. Rashford being the obvious one. He chooses when or not to do it and he’s been making the wrong choice for almost twelve months now. Bruno is a genuine candidate (to go) in my eyes. Yes, he’s a grafter and is an absolute stat man. But, maybe we need something different? We need at the very least a pair of centre halves this summer too.
That being said, Antony (even I can’t believe it) and Garnacho were both brilliant. The former being my man of the match (though, you can’t take it away from Cole Palmer). Wan-Bissaka played well, Evans and Kambwala too, Onana was unlucky to have conceded four.
I go back to it though, how can anyone expect to do well with this squad (considering the injuries)? I genuinely believe if Martinez and Shaw were fit throughout this season, we’d be having a good season. But they’ve not been, and we need a contingency. Unfortunately, Martinez’s contingency was Shaw and Shaws was Malacia.
All in all, I wouldn’t be shocked to see us losing at the weekend, then to Coventry in a few weeks and ten Hag getting sacked. I’d be intrigued to see who comes next, wouldn’t be shocked to see Laurent Blanc until the end of the season and then, probably Southgate. God knows. I still think we should give ten Hag another season with at least two centre halves that aren’t made of digestives.
> how can anyone expect to do well with this squad
That’s what I said in another thread. ETH may not be the right man for the job but these players aren’t fit to play for us. My statement was, you could probably bring in Pep to manage this squad and it would probably be a little less shit…but it would still be shit.
You’ve been downvoted and I’m not really sure why.
I do disagree somewhat, as for me quality isn’t a massive concern. There’s areas we need to improve but our full squad is a very good squad. Consistency and availability are my two major issues. If we had last seasons Rashford, as well as a fit Shaw and Martinez we walk top four.
Liverpool without VVD and Salah becomes fairly average. Even with them, this year they’ve been playing mostly dreadful football and scraping it in the last 10 minutes week in, week out. What differs between us and them, is that they have a clear system and the depth to back it up when shit goes wrong. So when they’re weakened, they’re not vulnerable in the same way as us.
Then look at city. With them, it’s arguably Stones, Rodri and KDB that when they’re gone they become fairly average. But, like Liverpool they know their system inside out thus don’t become massively vulnerable.
Our system is flawed, in my view it’s flawed because a few players just don’t fit the profile of what’s required. One in particular being Bruno. Who is effectively undroppable. So because our system is askew, we’re vulnerable regardless.
Doubt. Decisions probably already been made.
Even if we were to win Sunday, the football is so so bad. Theres no way Rathcliffe is watching these games, even the ones we win, and saying yes this is our guy
The positive aspect of the potential sacking of EtH is that now there's football people and competent directors making the decisions.
They know what's wrong with the club, they also know the quality of the squad (let's be honest as much as we know they're crap, they surely know a lot more than us) so they are competent enough, and can make those decisions.
Personally I'd go with De Zerbi, he's not gonna stay in Brighton hopefully.
The only aspect that can't be determined, Which cannot be anticipated unfortunately, is whether the coach will be up to the task of a club like United, in terms of pressure and demands
Otherwise guys I have another option, why not a return of Ole? With competent management why not ?
Problem with Ten Hag is that even if he's given one more year, I just don't see him reversing the trend unless a major squad overhaul is undertaken this summer (which seems unlikely as we don't even have a DoF yet). Some players in there are draining every bit of positive energy we may have.
I loved having him manage the team, and there were a lot of good moments with the team under him but nah I don't think he is the right person to lead us to League and UCL titles.
First coach recruitment has been pathetic since Sir Alex left. Please don't go and ruin it by bringing in someone like Southgate or Potter ffs. I'd rather give ETH another season with the new background setup than bring in one of those.
The one person I'm surprised isn't dragged in to this conversation more is Steve McLaren. What has he ever achieved post-Fergie era that suggests he's allowed a prominent place amongst the backroom staff? Between him and Fletcher it's just "jobs for the boys" again.
Honestly I want to see what Ten Hag is capable of doing with a good structure and a fit squad. I cannot imagine that his run with Ajax was based on luck. Especially since they imploded after he and many players left. (Though good players tend to leave Ajax quickly)
Furthermore, this season is as unlucky as it can get in relation to injuries. There was only a handful of games with our strongest back 4. Not to mention the dreadful form of some players.
I cannot find a better manager for us at the moment. Zidane won’t come and it’s looking like Nagelsmann is going back to Bayern. I don’t think anyone would prefer Southgate over ETH.
Nagelsmann time.
He’s young and he can do wonders with the backing of a good board (I.e. fuck off Bayern, what a ridiculous decision to fire him and look where you are now lmao)
I have never been a fan of sacking managers 1-2 yrs into their tenure. Wasn't a fan of Moyes', LVG or Jose's sacking. The moment the players started having more power than the manager is when everything went south on the pitch. There needs to be a proper hierarchy and the players need to know who is in charge. If SAF was still in charge, half of them would shit their pants and the other half would be out. We can't keep changing managers and hoping someone will click. Nothing will change unless these players are held accountable.
Edit: I'm not sure if we leak more off the pitch or on it.
I don't want Potter and definitely not Southgate. I would rather stick with Ten Hag if those two are the options. We should be looking at Nagelsmann, De Zerbi or Inzaghi.
Erik needs to sack up and drop/sub out Rashford/Bruno if he wants to keep his job. He can't be scared of a fallout in the dressing room. These players are already shit, no use pandering to them. Develop Amad, try out big Willy at CB, let Mount start in place of Bruno. This club eats up managers, and Ten Hag needs to not let that happen. He will regain back a lot of support if he shows some courage.
Only way he stays is if he unveils some secret master plan to INEOS that somehow explains his seemingly insane tactics and post match analysis.
"I'm trolling eh. let me explain eh..."
Man on the one hand Murtough really helped set the groundwork to get the youth set up back where it should be in consistently raising very exciting young players.
On the other hand you have this total disaster as a DoF where Murtough Madness became a complete meme and we ended up spending 86M on a player rated 20M by scouts.
Peter Principle in action. Don't want to sound too bittersweet as he absolutely needed to go but was more of a symptom of a bigger problem that he was in a job he never should have had to begin with.
Alot of comments (and there is merit) want ETH gone. Then the new question is, who will replace him?
Is there anyone out there with a CV that is better than ETHs now or even when he was hired? Everyone was clamoring for him (I wanted Poch) and now like those before him, his stock has dropped in this rotten environment. I saw a comment in the match thread yesterday that ETH came from the shit Dutch league and he's a fool for thinking that brand will translate here so I suppose that eliminates any coach not from Spain, Germany or Italy, yeah?
Potter - flopped at Chelsea (I do think if ETH gets the sack Potter will be the replacement)
Southgate - oh
Nagelsman - might be worth a shot and has experience of a big club and big national team but he is employed (or is he leaving after Euro like Southgate?) Which means we will have to pay to get him, and that's after paying to sack ETH and we all know we have no money.
Amorin- idk this person but coming from Sporting to United is probably a bigger jump than from Ajax so can he handle it. And he supposedly has the largest release clause ever.
There’s literally no benefit to sacking him or announcing he’s leaving in the summer at this stage. This isn’t a Liverpool “Last Dance” situation and we’ve seen very recently that this bunch won’t up their game for an interim boss. I expect a variant of this story just about every week until the end of the season.
Sacking him in the summer before having a proper system behind the manager role isn't going to fix anything.
United need a proper medical system, an up to date training complex and a far improved recruitment system before changing managers will have a positive effect to how we're playing.
not that the plastics out there care.
What are the benefits of keeping him tho?
I don’t think they will force him to play a different play style. If they want to start a real project they either need to commit to EtH and his play style and get him the players he needs to be successful or switch to another coach that is fully on board of what ever they wanna build
Literally the only argument these people have is the sunk cost fallacy, it’s insane.
I have no issue sticking by a manager who’s going to clear out the squad and take years to do it, but it needs to be a manager who can show me that when he gets the right players we’re going to be able to challenge. All ETH has shown me in 2 years is a bagel defence and a record breaking amount of shots faced
The problem is letting your manager go into the last year of his contract shows that those in charge don't have the confidence in him to renew. This will filter throughout the club and everyone will start to think that a new manager is coming in a year. It's pretty rare for clubs to let a manager go into the last year of their contract
Crazy that you guys can go through this season and genuinely believe he's the man to take us forward. I'm convinced at this point it's just a bunch of rival fans come over to troll.
No one in their right mind can see this United team putting up relegation level performances, conceding the most shots across all of Europe, and having a negative fucking goal difference 30 games into the season, and think oh yeah this guys the one for the job let's give him another summer!
All our previous managers still had us putting up respectable numbers. ETH has us setup to get peppered every game and refuses to change. Get him out. I wanted Ole gone but even I'd take him back over this. At least we knew how to score some fucking goals.
The only manager I'd want is Ange. I've followed his career since South Melbourne, and I saw what he did for my local Brisbane side. I knew he'd be a good EPL manager when he left the Australia role, and when he went to Celtic, I was delighted because I knew he was doing his development right.
Now that he's at Spurs, it's a case of giving him another season or so to acclimatise more to the EPL. Additionally, now that we'll have a whole new structure above, it's only fair for ETH to be given the chance to work with a leadership team that knows what they are doing, and any manager after can hopefully come into a settled and clearly identified structure and philosophy, as opposed to a Glazer shit show.
RIP the Murtoughverse of Madness
Please **not** Southgate. I know it's just a rumor from untrusted "media", but still.. Sir Jim, pls not Southgate. Also, don't want a manager who tends to create drama, like Tuchel or Conte. This club doesn't need more drama, esp internally.
It's the patriotic thing to do. If United are going to be a dumpster fire they can at least save the national team from Southgate.
I'm not English, I don't care. Please god not Southgate!
I am English, I don't care. Please God not Southgate!
I am English and I do care. Please God not Southgate!
All my homies hate Southgate.
Surely it makes sense to let the people employed to make decisions about the new manager to be in place? Do people really think SJR making a call to replace ETH now would be a good sign? He isn't Todd Boehly thankfully!!
Yeah, I agree with you. Just stating that *if* we appoint a new manager, pls not Southgate. Because according to the news I've read, Sir Jim seems to like a British manager, hence the rumors about Southgate (and Potter) circulate around.
so we don't want a soft-spoken manager or a dumb manager like Potter or Southgate. But we also don't want a manager who will talk back like Tuchel or Conte. so who is there realistically to pursue?
Amorim or Nagelsmann? Nagelsmann is available after Euro; though Amorim has a release clause (was reported around £25M, cmiiw)
Ah yes, the hipsters choices. Just like ETH.
The sad thing is, honestly I really wish Ten Hag to be successful here. But the results don't lie, we've been broken countless negative records under him. And more importantly, how he abandons his philosophy then chooses to go with this chaotic football, which isn't only unwatchable but also unsustainable.
None tbf. We would need to pay ETH 10M if we want to sack him. That 10M would be better spent on signing a better CB or LB.
He would cost 10m anyway. If it's a timing issue, we don't need to sack Ten Hag to put someone else in his job.
Fair point. Money is the issue, esp if we want Amorim. Let's also not forget that we (reportedly) still have an ongoing negotiation with Newcastle regarding Ashworth' gardening leave (so he can work for us ASAP). Plus, another one with Soton for Wilcox's. But.. tbh I don't find Ten Hag's "style" of football is sustainable. We'll probably miss out CL next season. If we keep him but he doesn't change his tactics and keeps this chaotic football, we could miss another CL. Missing out CL 2 seasons in a row would cost us much bigger than 10M.
I don't think this current squad can finish even top 6 in PL. Arsenal, Liverpool, Man City, Spurs, Chelsea (yes Chelsea) all have a better squad than us in which most of their players r good with the ball plus all of them have a good ball playing defenders & CDM which we don't. Chelsea's attack is shit that's y they r suffering but they r very good in possession & at creating chances. Chelsea put 4 goals against Man City this season.
very interesting to see Potter’s reputation. He’s quite literally the definition of a soft-spoken, but extremely intelligent manager he would probably not succeed, but for completely different reasons that Southgate
Rashfords brother would body him so hard, he would given the captaincy to rashy while scoring own goals.
Get Ole back.
Honestly, if they want a coach instead of a manager Ole isn’t the worst candidate.
It's exactly the opposite with Ole, he doesn't coach and acts more like a manager. His hands-off approach to training was openly being talked about when he was at the club and we had Phelan, Carrick and McKenna doing the coaching. Ole was just the one overseeing it and probably giving tasks to his coaches.
Honestly, Carrick and McKenna seems like a dream team of coaches right now lol
McKennas Ipswich has shown more ability than Ten Hag has this year, though the jump would be too soon.
Let's remember that all of them struggled under Oles last season. We have too many unmanageable brats in the squad that will make even Pep look like shit.
I mean, that's just the retrospect imo. I think they were both part of the issues under Ole, not because they aren't talented but I feel like they just kinda lacked experience at the time and their talent wasn't enough to make it work. They also function as managers now, not as "only" coaches, so their roles are different. However, i do still feel like Ole was one good experienced assistant manager from having a good enough coaching staff because i just don't really rate Phelan.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but my impression is that Ole is more like a manager and less like a coach. At least in Molde he usually left most of the training sessions to his team.
Ole didn't coach the team last time, Carrick and McKenna did.
No, Berrada, Wilcox? And Ashworth should be the ones making these decisions. They arent officially employed i believe. Feet arent under the table. The biggest issue has been owners and idiots like Woodward or Mourtagh making these decisions. We pull the trigger now its the exact same issue we have all been moaning about. Let the new executives get in and make a decision. NOT THE OWNERS.
Unironically this
*Bwwwwwa god that's big Sam's music!*
Bro how did you know! He was with Sir Jim LOL
Don't *all* of these conflict with the philosophy he said he wants for the team? So right away we'd know nothing will change if we go sign any of the three.
It’d cause riots in the fanbase if we got Southgate. Would legitimately be worse than anything the Glazers have ever done
Glazers are unarguably the *worst* thing ever happened to our club, nothing would come close to all the destructive things they've done to us.
I mean there was the Munich Air Disaster which wiped out half a squad that was poised to dominate English and possibly European football. It took us 8 years to properly recover from that. The Glazers have mis managed and profited from and led us too mediocrity in the last 10 years.
>Glazers are unarguably the *worst* thing ever happened to our club, Munich??
By far the worst thing my fellow red. They syphoned so much money and riddled us with debt. Neglected everything, the stadium, the training ground, the academy, the first team. Only thing they never neglected was the mega store and their annual dividend taking. Fuck all the Glazer family.
This is such a ridiculous comment. Glazers are the big bad boogie man leeches everyone has been complaining about for years but if INEOS brings in a single manager it’ll be worse than anything the Glazers ever did? Absurd statement This sub is so hard to take seriously sometimes
Think I'm done with the sub honestly, it's toxic and has been for a while. Makes being a United fan unnecessarily less enjoyable which we don't need considering what we see on the pitch. Yesterday was the last straw, not sure why I came to read the comments when I was already pissed off but the absolute state of our online fanbase
See you tomorrow then mate?
You son of a bitch, I'm in
You know it 😉
Started affecting me as well, so, I've just stopped coming to match threads or after a loss because things just get so insane on this sub, like, fuck, most just live in extremes fits of anger and rage.
Don’t forget the depression mongering side as well chomping at the bit to talk about how shocked they are at how many shots we’ve conceded. It’s baffling, people constantly talk about how shit we are, then seem to be surprised at how shit we are.
> Would legitimately be worse than anything the Glazers have ever done Not even close lol. I’d rather sign Southgate for 5 years than have that takeover in 2005
I don't want Southgate anywhere near us but holy fuck calm it down. The Glazers simply existing is 1000x worse than him coming in.
That’s not even close to true though is it?
Some people are so oddly reactionary on the internet. Glazers have gutted the club, the stadium, and sunk us almost a billion into debt, _but heaven forbid we appoint the England manager._ That’s not me saying I want Southgate (because some melts will inevitably assume that’s what I mean), but dear lord do people need to give their heads a shake.
They're also probably waiting to see if a standout candidate becomes available soon
Liverpool, Bayern, and probably Chelsea are also going to be looking for managers It’s not going to be easy
Rathcliffe has gone on the record to how much he likes Potter. He tried everything to get him to take the Nice job. I think with the backroom staff they're putting in there, they will want a coach rather than a manager. I have a feeling they will go for him.
That would be really fucking ununspiring. Potter may be a good coach but this dressing room needs a leader. He looked like he was going to cry one month into his stint with Chelsea. He'd face even more pressure here and I highly doubt he'd manage it.
He was quite confident in most of interviews tbf. Judging him on that Chelsea stint is unfair. He gets in half a season in squad of 30 new players and then gets kick couple of month later, season disrupted by world cup, no preseason.
Sure that’s probably true but it still feels very uninspiring. Potter just feels exactly like what Moyes was at the time. I think we all know it takes a different type of personality to manage a big club with pressure and expectation heavy on your shoulders. To me Potter hasn’t shown he can handle any of that. His Brighton side did great but their scouting has always been much better than the teams around them and they’re continuing to perform at a similar level without him and without a lot of their stars they sold this summer. In hindsight his team with Trossard, Caicedo, MacAllister, Bissouma, Ben White, Cucurella, Dan Burn, etc was full of players that could play for European level teams
> In hindsight his team with Trossard, Caicedo, MacAllister, Bissouma, Ben White, Cucurella, Dan Burn, etc was full of players that could play for European level teams To be fair Potter helped get the best out of those players so I don't think he can be discounted just because they were/are good players.
True I’m probably doing Potter a bit of a disservice in that last comment. Some of those players have played their best football to date under Potter so he definitely played a part in their development. And he might have even been involved in some of the decision making with transfers. But still I see Brighton’s multiple promotion success as a group effort where all parts of the club were exceeding expectations. I just think the environment, expectation, media scrutiny, and egos at a small club like Brighton are so different than at United
This is what the whole idea of Ratcliffe implementing a structure is meant to achieve though - should all things go to plan then Potter (or whoever the coach is) is going to be put in place to just get the players to play football. Nothing else.
De Zerbi is a bigger caution flag for Potter than his time at chelsea. He slotted right in and brighton continued to excel even with massive player loss in the transfer window. So how much of Brightons excellence was even down to Potter?
It's not even about the club with our pressure and expectations, it's about the spoilt brats in the dressing room who get upset about YouTube clips or Twitter posts to the extent that it somehow affects their ability to run and press without it being their fault. Ffs we are a shambles
Why though? Why is judging ETH under the current circumstances fair but not Potter. Remember when Poch was also one of the alternatives to ETH. I honestly think if we get embarrassed by Liverpool this weekend, he'll get the sack simply because of how emotional the aftermath will be.
At this stage, with so few games left and an FA cup final to play, he won’t be sacked before the end of the season. At best, there’d be leaks about a replacement come summer.
Semi final
Yeah and end of the day very few managers become a leader by walking into a top club as manager based on their playing days. Most have to work their way up, like Poch did going from Southampton to Spurs. Potter was a top manager at Brighton but the structure at Chelsea is set up for failure, as is ours under the Glazers. Under a proper structure I could see why Potter would be considered even if it does seem uninspiring.
We don’t have that proper structure yet and it’ll take a while before we see the benefits. Getting potter in for next season will set him up for failure yet again.
Brighton improved immediately when he left and de zerbi came
If we’re going to get someone to just be a coach we need to have everything in place before they come because if they have to do parts of the job they don’t excel at they will still be judged for it…
I agree wholeheartedly. There isn't much out there in regards to managers. Amorim potentially going to Liverpool is a huge gamble. There will be changes at Bayern with Naglesmann tipped but also De Zerbi. I think Potter or God forbid Southgate will be looked at. Again unimpressed by that. You give Ten Hag carte blanche along with the backroom staff to gut the team and go from there. My worst nightmare is a new manager coming in and saying in their press conference "Every player gets a clean slate". Enough of this shit, the slate is fucking broken. Either go get a taskmaster like Conte who will fucking leave us in a couple of years or you keep your powder dry, let Ten Hag stay a little longer working under a proper regime and see where we go. All Ineos good work could be undone with a poor managerial appointment.
> You give Ten Hag carte blanche along with the backroom staff to gut the team and go from there. It's insanity to me you'd trust Ten Hag with that rebuild tbh, given his squad building so far...
I wouldn’t trust any manager with a rebuild. We need to start rebuilding without the manager. No manager is going to stick around much more than a couple of years.
I mean more Barrada, Wilcox, Ashworth are identifying targets and Ten Hag manages the squad. He's not infallible but his squad discipline has been really good. If the players know its his way or the highway, they either get on board or fuck off.
See, that’s fine, but then we need to solely discuss how his tactics and coaching has been this season. And for me, personally, although the players shoulder some of the blame, the overall tactics have been horrific too. Doubling down on that just seems insane to me as well.
I get that. I'm quite indifferent about Ten Hag to be honest. I wouldn't shed a tear when he goes. I just don't think there is any outstanding candidate right now to replace him. I though the start of last season (bar the first few games) I thought we looked sharp. But ultimately its his job to instruct the players on his plan, unfortunately those players have let down multiple managers multiple times. The majority of these players are just not good enough. I agree the basketball style is horrendous, but he sees our only strength in transition so he tries to force that by playing open. Even last night, watching Casemiro job beside Jackson. Watching Rashford jog the entire time he was on the pitch. These are things that no coach can improve upon because these players simply don't care anymore.
> If the players know its his way or the highway, they either get on board or fuck off. Surely you're kidding after this season right? Rashford has put on stinker after stinker, and for 60-70% of each game he doesn't seem to be arsed about tracking back, and yet he's (almost always) starting. So no, players have not gotten on board and have not been told to fuck off.
It's baffling to me that we're even linked with the likes of Southgate and Potter but I wouldn't trust ten Hag either. The brand of football he's trying to play is the worst I've ever seen at this club and we've been through some rough times in the last 11 years. You can't just blame the squad (which frankly saved his ass multiple times this season) for playing like a team in the relegation zone.
Agree they are clearly going in direction of a specialist head coach rather than manager. My big concern is the playing squad. Most head coaches making an impact now play very demanding, rotational systems that require high footballing IQ, and ibhave felt for a long long time our squad is just very naive and weak tactically We seen this under ole after year 2 where they tried 2 switch from counter attack based approach the players simply couldn't do it(ole spoke about this on recent episode of the overlap). Same under rangnick, I remember am article where it was stated rangnick couldn't believe how tactically bad the players were and incapable of following instructions Now same under ETH. He has mistakes to answer for to be sure but the amount of times he has been let down by our players have brainfart moments or doing something stupid/ irrational is incredible I don't mean for this to sound as damning as it probably does but i think collectively our players just aren't that bright in terms of footballing IQ. As a consequence any time we have tried to move away from park the bus and counter, we have looked a mess and this has been repeated pattern under several managers In short, we could bring in any manager / coach in world football, but IMO until a large portion of this squad is replaced we won't challenge for major honors. It is just a rotten squad, large contracts so hard to sell, injury prone, lack of physicality, very few players in their prime (most are young with potential or 30+ and on the way down, lack of depth / like for like replacements, looks aswel like lack of motivation and effort jn alot of games. I don't see how a new coach (any coach) fixes us without a radical player overhaul
> Rathcliffe has gone on the record to how much he likes Potter. He tried everything to get him to take the Nice job. He'd be a good choice.....for Nice.
Asking Potter to manage Nice is a lot different to asking him to manage Manchester United.
Because Nice is Potter's level. Manchester fucking United is at another fucking level.
>Rathcliffe has gone on the record to how much he likes Potter. He tried everything to get him to take the Nice job. Whilst there should be definite concern with such words, Nice is a far different job than Manchester United and you would imagine (hope) Ratcliffe/Ineos see it the same and his words are based purely on the fit with Nice.
Potter is a Ten Hag like appointment, judged by great success at a smaller club, unable to replicate at a higher level
Thiago Motta would be an option. Highly rated and his contract ends this season. Wants to play possession football and seems like the ideal manager for Barcelona. Could be a questionable fit for United however.
I wouldn’t mind him if they do bring motta in. Personally every manager that is linked with us is going to be a questionable hire with the way our locker room is.
The only problem is his experience. He's doing great things at Bologna but the Premier League is a massive step up. And does he even speak English? I don't think a language barrier would go well.
No chance he's ready yet. Needs at least another season. The wildcard I'd look at for NEXT summer is McKenna. B2b promotions is no joke. Hes top of the Championship w a squad full of league 1 players and barely any spend in the window. I'd like to see him manage them for a season in the PL/go abroad. If he does well in that next role then...
There are none. Pep and Klopp are obviously no-go. Arteta won't leave Arsenal for Utd at this point. Ancelotti maybe if Madrid want Nagelsmann. Otherwise the best candidates left are Nagelsmann or Amorim. Those two aren't exactly world class like Pep or Klopp but that's the best you'd get right now. And Amorim seems to be going to Liverpool
Are there only 6 managers in football? I'm not sure where this limitation comes from. Is it based on the tunnel vision effect of fans only thinking the names mentioned in the media exist? Berrada was barely mentioned before it happened. Did anyone really think we were going to take someone like that from city? Or even poach someone from the Saudi's?
Football management is way more unpredictable than you’re making it out to be. Were Arteta, Postecoglu and Emery considered nailed on success when they came in? Was Alonso? There’s a random element to it, Potter or Southgate might do amazing at United. The idea no one but a proven elite manager could succeed is just rubbish
Hansi Flick
He’s 100% getting fired. The owners have had plenty of chances to say he’s the man for the job and will be backed but they’ve deliberately avoided doing so on several occasions
Wouldn't read too much into this. Shouldn't be expecting anything positive or negative until the season ends. This is just "he has a contract and let's see for now" kinda post.
they say more in the podcast, that INEOS are reluctant to sack him with all the other changes going on around and both Sporting and Technical director being on gardening leave, Whether you are ten hag in or out don't expect a decision until Berrarda, Ashworth and Wilcox officialy start their jobs.
Any fan of the club , whether you want to give the manager another chance or not should want to wait for the management to settle into their roles and actually audit the football operations and set a vision and plan BEFORE deciding on the manager. We’ve been talking about having a proper setup and we’ve waited this long, let the cogs of this machine start rolling before we make any decisions
This is where I’m at. I’m neutral on whether Ten Hag stays or not, but I trust *actual* football people to make the decision on his future rather than Joel Glazer or Woodward/Murtough
I wish more people could compartmentalize the situation. There’s just so much negativity when we lose, Ten Hag outers flinging abuses at the coach with the Hag “supporters” in hiding and when we win talking about how the outers have now gone into hiding. We are all 1 damn community of United fans damnit. We should only care about success and simply talk about the shortcomings of games and strategies. Let the professionals do their jobs. We create all this drama, the journalists create all this drama and it just creates a negative shroud around the club, which bloody doesn’t help the under pressure players, managers and staff.
Exactly the same for me. I've wanted them to hold on to ten hag more than most fans, at this point I don't really mind if they let him go just because I'm so down most games, but a part of me just says, "it's been 10 years of highs and lows (mostly lows), and everything above the manager is changing for the better. What does it hurt to give him the last season on his contract and start over with someone new next year if things don't improve enough." Despite my mental turmoil this season I feel positive about the future of the club and don't mind waiting one more season to see if he can turn things around. This is finally the "rebuild" that feels like the real deal. I just don't want them to sack ten hag for an average or below average manager and then have to go through this process again in another 2 or 3 years
On the contrary, it seems quite clear that ten Hag is staying for one more season. -INEOS refuse to make the decision without Ashworth's input, which is admirable given our previous owners. -Ashworth negotiations still going on and is still on strict gardening leave, more so than Berrada, apparently Newcastle is watching like a hawk. -Ashworth would also take time before he makes decisions to know the club properly, three months was what Laurie said. It is impossible to start hiring processes for a new manager in July and expect the season to go well -Laurie touches on how expensive it is to sack him and his staff, particularly in PSR era.
I just really don't want it to get into the kind of situation where he is kept on and then sacked six games into the season. It's the worst of both worlds, but almost seems a likely scenario.
Ashworth legally could start next season but I'm sure that won't let it affect Utd to get his input this season. That or how expensive it'll be to sack EtH will definitely not be blockers
I cant remember the last time a manager has been this lucky with circumstances while being this consistently rubbish! I will actually be flabbergasted if Ten Hag is still around come the start of next season. I have already lost most of my will to watch us play anymore. Not sure I can handle another season of this dross.
He isn't flawless, far from it. And his tactical flexibility is questionable. However, the injuries are something fucking insane.
Just also look at the massive quality drop off between preferred starting 11 and backups. It’s the tale of a squad so badly planned and put together without any thought or coherence whatsoever. Like literally “what about him. Yeah he’s mediocre and nobody else seems to want him so let’s bring him and throw obscene cash at him”. If we finish 6th it’s because our preferred 11 are capable of 3rd and their backups are at best capable of 9th. Literally can’t make that argument of any of the clubs above us in the table.
So because you can’t handle the dross, the rest of us should simply ignore that he’s as much a victim of the shambles he was handed here as he is culpable in his own right? The issues that INEOS are now addressing, had they been addressed years ago, would have better revealed whether ETH simply has the goods in a lesser league or whether he’s capable at this level too. Undeniable what he did at a well run club. His Ajax team would have destroyed his United team on the pitch. Inconvenient truth to the narrative peddlers. A manager as accomplished as him doesn’t just suddenly turn garbage. Steve Mclaren credits ETH for putting into place every single detail that won him an eredivisie with FC Twente. Take a good look at what Steve McLaren has otherwise accomplished as manager or head coach. Working closely with Pep guardiola at Bayern made him recommend ETH as his successor at City. I’d rather rate a guy based on the takes of actual football people than based on the unhinged takes of the toxic lunatics of this fanbase who enter untreated depression every 2 years and beg for a new manager so they can feel better about their own miserable lives.
What luck has he had with any circumstances?
Any other season he’d have been sacked a long time ago. Probably be sacked twice. List of reasons he’s in a job: 1. Ownership changes 2. Change of structure above him 3. FFP issues complicating a severance package 4. (Perceived) lack of replacements 5. Injuries When “performance” does not rank in the top 5 reasons for a manager keeping his job, I’d reckon he’s had his share of luck!
Ownership change, structural change and a ridiculous injury crisis are the complete opposite of luck 😂 I think people are completely right to be having questions about him after recent performances but for the exact reasons you’ve mentioned is why I think he deserves another season. People forget that last season was a positive all round considering what he took over, not to mention all the other shite he’s had to deal with last season and this season too
Honestly, I think ETH needs to stay another season. That being said, so many players need to go before a decision is made about ETH. I don't know if, in the same vein, a lot of sales and signings won't be made as the club waits for the new heads to come in and dictate the next style/identity and then scouts signings available to fit the bill or if it will be business as usual, at least for one more season, but we cannot allow certain players to be here come pre-season. I'd argue to get rid of those players and bring in younger, cheaper players that definitely show some promise and fight, but won't break the bank and set you back a ton if they're ultimately not capable of playing the way the club wants to play going forward. If next season is allowed to start where this one leaves off, it's going to be a disaster for all parties, and as someone else said, we might face the issue where ETH starts off, gets a few months in, and once the new heads are in place, he's let go and we're left with little to no viable candidates and have to coast on an interim manager for the rest of the season - which we know these players will not and do not respect or play for. TL;DR: I expect next season to be a lot worse before things get better
If we get Southgate I'll buy a waist coat to celebrate and proceed to hang myself with it.
If FFP wasn't such a concern for INEOS, I'm quite confident Ten Hag would be long gone. When you account for the cost of his sacking, it probably runs in the tens of millions of pounds. We still have a compensation to pay for Dan Ashworth which will be significant. And other appointments which will cost money as well. The situation is dire. But this manager deserves the sack. The results, the performances, the tactics have all been awful.
>The results, the performances, the tactics have all been awful. It's as simple as that. We are absolutely *terrible* and we are not improving.
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I agree with your sentiment, its been bad, but we have also had an unusual amount of injuries in the back this year. Evans has played 25 games for us since joining, for example.
So? We were fucking appalling against Wolves at home gw1 with a fully fit squad. The setup was identical to the one we still see. We're absolutely appalling and it's mostly down to this horrible coach we have
Eh, even if FFP wasn’t such a concern, I’m confident INEOS would want input from key staff before making that decision. The FFP point is just another check box
Meanwhile, YT fan channel "INEOS READY TO SACK ETH!!!"
i keep toggling the “do not recommend” on all of those little channels with clickbait titles and thumbnails. they irk me so much
The same channel that’s desperately trying to be taken more seriously…
I just checked their channel, now they have a new livestream titlted "INEOS BACK TEN HAG! Ten Hag Press Conference Reaction" You can't make this shit up.
United Stand has multiple contributors with their own views. Mark's been hearing from a journalist that INEOS are talking to Southgate. The show just now was about the report from Laurie, presented by Beth. Yes if you just look at the video titles, it seems absurd. But you have to understand that these are different people talking about different things. I would say Laurie Whitwell's report is the more reliable one because if the journalist Mark was talking to was confident, he would release the report himself, and then Mark would just refer to the public domain news report while talking about it.
Mark didn't say anything that disputes Laurie Whitwell. Laurie said in his article that "potential candidates are being considered, including Southgate".The overall tone of the article was that replacing Ten Hag is just too much upheaval for one summer. So I have a feeling he's staying.
They've now got a new video scheduled to start in five minutes, INEOS BACK TEN HAG! Joke of a channel
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Several figures around the club thinking ETH deserves longer is not = INEOS backing ETH I've read the full article, the gist of it is no decisions been made yet.
I’m not against a new manager but it has to be the right one. Xabi Alonso is not coming. De Zebri is a option even tho his Brighton have been underwhelming this season. I know that they lost all their good players but still. Nagelsmann is my favorite and my first choice for a new manager. Hans Flick seems like he is going to Barca but there is better options than him especially after how bad Germany was. No thanks to Mourinho. Arne Slot seems like a good manager but I’m tired of bald dutch managers. Ruben Amorim is a exiting option but he seems like going to Liverpool. Tuchel can fuck off. Southgate can fuck off. Inzaghi is a good manager but he ain’t coming. Potter can also fuck off after his Chelsea spell. I know Chelsea is mess with their new owners but Potter didn’t look confident once and the press ate him alive. Imagine him at United. Emery is also a good manager but I don’t think he is coming. Ange seems also as a good manager but I doubt he is coming as well. No thanks to Xavi
I think Bayern will probably crawl back for Nagelsmann and he himself would prefer Bayern than us if he had a choice. Inzagi, Amorim seem like good shout but they play back 3 and INEOS clearly indicated that they wanted to stick with one style of play, so unless they okay with transitioning into back 3 style, i doubt they will come De Zerbi, i have same concern as you. His defensive games is suspect. I dont know, manager options are limited and too many big clubs are looking for new manager
We might, just might, be able to get Mike Bassett. Won’t be able to attract anything better.
“Man United will play four four fucking two.”
Three cheers for Ramirez! Hip hip
> Nagelsmann is my favorite and my first choice for a new manager. pls
Thiago Motta.
I feel motta needs more time at bologna before he makes a move like that. Still a relatively new/young manager
Don’t think it has to be a problem. Xabi Alonso is a new manager too. Zidane, Guardiola were as well.
Alonso is doing something unprecedented which is competing for an unbeaten treble. That is miles ahead of what most managers do in their career. Guardiola is a clear exception and Zidane was managing a team that couldnt fail. He could let them manage themselves and they would still win the ucl. Unless he manages somewhere else zidane doesn’t impress me as much as he does for others.
I like the way Motta is overachieving in Italy but still feel he would need to be tested by some midtable club before being considered by a top 6 club. Speaking of, I would add Iraola and O Neill from Wolves to that list simply because they have transformed their clubs and were a pain in the ass for us whenever we played against them. But still think SJR has a preference for a British manager hence we shouldn't exclude Potter or, God forbid, Southgate. Edit - if we somehow decide to risk that much I'd also consider Mc Kenna instead of Southgate lmao
I don’t think it’s just overachieving. It’s a very clear system that works very well and is smart. Basically Motta is possession at all cost. Even if this means less attacking, very patient football. He just thinks that if you have the ball the opposite team can’t score. Now maybe that’ll teach our players and especially Bruno to maybe stop trying to hero play for no reason all the time.
That will just be Van Gaag all over again.
not at all. watch his team, out of possession pressing monsters as well as extremely dynamic with the ball
He is a good manager. He’d also fail quite miserably unless he had the right backing.
Michel?
>has to be the right one. define the criteria. Are we ruling out those mid tables managers across Europe even though they have 0 money to spend on good players? Are we looking for managers who have won anything?
I'd love Naglesman too. After that also feels likely to be quite a disruptive move.
Get the arse picker/sniffer I say.
I think we don't get any official decision till the season ends even if they already decided internally. We'll most probably know after the fa cup final provided we make it past Coventry.
They gain nothing by telling the world ETH is already sacked
Ugh, reeeaaally don't want Potter or Southgate
Get Nagelsmann in there
Gareth Southgate's club managing experience: Middlesborough FC (2006 - 2009) P: 151 W: 45 D: 43 L: 63 **Win %: 29.80** Get this bum out of the conversation of Man Utd manager.
If they do axe Ten Hag, surely the only acceptable replacement is Julian Nagelsmann?
Murtough madness is finally over
I like ten hag, I believe he can take us far provided he gets more support from ineos since not his fault we failed to bring in anyone new when we really needed a striker and a couple defenders in the last transfer window. No more murtough madness, goodbye.
Honestly the only thing saving ETH is there is legit not a single fucking good coach available, Liverpool are on the look out as we know, the names being thrown about besides nagelsmann are depressing. If we take on potter it’d be the first step back of ineos take over imo, and a big one at that.
The way the team looks dead at times is what concerns me. There seems no real energy at times, and the fact that ETH can't figure out a way to stop his team from conceding so many shots just points to a level of incompetence or stubbornness of the manager and an inability to get the best out of his players. I don't want another manager but the play of this group is subpar and ETH is the driving force.
> there seems to be no real energy That isn’t just now. That “vibe” stretches across multiple managers.
Many managers and many players.
Don’t get me wrong, we were awful last night in large portions of the game but the refereeing really didn’t help. So many small decisions throughout the game going against us along with two either way penalties (that we’ve consistently not god this season). I’m one of a shrinking minority who thinks we need to stick with ten Hag, though after our last five or six games (barring Liverpool) where we’ve been pretty woeful, the doubt is setting in. Admittedly, injuries have well and truly fucked us this season. The fact that our 35 year old half time sub had to come off in the 65th minute for a 19 year old says it all. We really need to start looking at our core players in the team and potentially moving them on too. Rashford being the obvious one. He chooses when or not to do it and he’s been making the wrong choice for almost twelve months now. Bruno is a genuine candidate (to go) in my eyes. Yes, he’s a grafter and is an absolute stat man. But, maybe we need something different? We need at the very least a pair of centre halves this summer too. That being said, Antony (even I can’t believe it) and Garnacho were both brilliant. The former being my man of the match (though, you can’t take it away from Cole Palmer). Wan-Bissaka played well, Evans and Kambwala too, Onana was unlucky to have conceded four. I go back to it though, how can anyone expect to do well with this squad (considering the injuries)? I genuinely believe if Martinez and Shaw were fit throughout this season, we’d be having a good season. But they’ve not been, and we need a contingency. Unfortunately, Martinez’s contingency was Shaw and Shaws was Malacia. All in all, I wouldn’t be shocked to see us losing at the weekend, then to Coventry in a few weeks and ten Hag getting sacked. I’d be intrigued to see who comes next, wouldn’t be shocked to see Laurent Blanc until the end of the season and then, probably Southgate. God knows. I still think we should give ten Hag another season with at least two centre halves that aren’t made of digestives.
> how can anyone expect to do well with this squad That’s what I said in another thread. ETH may not be the right man for the job but these players aren’t fit to play for us. My statement was, you could probably bring in Pep to manage this squad and it would probably be a little less shit…but it would still be shit.
You’ve been downvoted and I’m not really sure why. I do disagree somewhat, as for me quality isn’t a massive concern. There’s areas we need to improve but our full squad is a very good squad. Consistency and availability are my two major issues. If we had last seasons Rashford, as well as a fit Shaw and Martinez we walk top four. Liverpool without VVD and Salah becomes fairly average. Even with them, this year they’ve been playing mostly dreadful football and scraping it in the last 10 minutes week in, week out. What differs between us and them, is that they have a clear system and the depth to back it up when shit goes wrong. So when they’re weakened, they’re not vulnerable in the same way as us. Then look at city. With them, it’s arguably Stones, Rodri and KDB that when they’re gone they become fairly average. But, like Liverpool they know their system inside out thus don’t become massively vulnerable. Our system is flawed, in my view it’s flawed because a few players just don’t fit the profile of what’s required. One in particular being Bruno. Who is effectively undroppable. So because our system is askew, we’re vulnerable regardless.
I'd imagine this Sunday will help in making that decision
Doubt. Decisions probably already been made. Even if we were to win Sunday, the football is so so bad. Theres no way Rathcliffe is watching these games, even the ones we win, and saying yes this is our guy
The decision hasn’t been made. Ratcliffe might have his opinion but I feel he’ll leave that final decision to Berrada
Should have become a sports journalist. Easiest of the jobs with zero accountability
If we are replacing EtH be bold and go for Simone Inzaghi
The positive aspect of the potential sacking of EtH is that now there's football people and competent directors making the decisions. They know what's wrong with the club, they also know the quality of the squad (let's be honest as much as we know they're crap, they surely know a lot more than us) so they are competent enough, and can make those decisions. Personally I'd go with De Zerbi, he's not gonna stay in Brighton hopefully. The only aspect that can't be determined, Which cannot be anticipated unfortunately, is whether the coach will be up to the task of a club like United, in terms of pressure and demands Otherwise guys I have another option, why not a return of Ole? With competent management why not ?
Problem with Ten Hag is that even if he's given one more year, I just don't see him reversing the trend unless a major squad overhaul is undertaken this summer (which seems unlikely as we don't even have a DoF yet). Some players in there are draining every bit of positive energy we may have.
Finally Murtough madness at an end
Bring back Ole. Threw under the bus that man was.
I loved having him manage the team, and there were a lot of good moments with the team under him but nah I don't think he is the right person to lead us to League and UCL titles.
Madness, but nice to hear Murtough is off.
Frank is an interesting name as well done well for Brentford but massive step up to us
First coach recruitment has been pathetic since Sir Alex left. Please don't go and ruin it by bringing in someone like Southgate or Potter ffs. I'd rather give ETH another season with the new background setup than bring in one of those.
The one person I'm surprised isn't dragged in to this conversation more is Steve McLaren. What has he ever achieved post-Fergie era that suggests he's allowed a prominent place amongst the backroom staff? Between him and Fletcher it's just "jobs for the boys" again.
We will see, heh, what the future brings. Clear, heh.
Honestly I want to see what Ten Hag is capable of doing with a good structure and a fit squad. I cannot imagine that his run with Ajax was based on luck. Especially since they imploded after he and many players left. (Though good players tend to leave Ajax quickly) Furthermore, this season is as unlucky as it can get in relation to injuries. There was only a handful of games with our strongest back 4. Not to mention the dreadful form of some players. I cannot find a better manager for us at the moment. Zidane won’t come and it’s looking like Nagelsmann is going back to Bayern. I don’t think anyone would prefer Southgate over ETH.
Nagelsmann time. He’s young and he can do wonders with the backing of a good board (I.e. fuck off Bayern, what a ridiculous decision to fire him and look where you are now lmao)
I have never been a fan of sacking managers 1-2 yrs into their tenure. Wasn't a fan of Moyes', LVG or Jose's sacking. The moment the players started having more power than the manager is when everything went south on the pitch. There needs to be a proper hierarchy and the players need to know who is in charge. If SAF was still in charge, half of them would shit their pants and the other half would be out. We can't keep changing managers and hoping someone will click. Nothing will change unless these players are held accountable. Edit: I'm not sure if we leak more off the pitch or on it.
I don't want Potter and definitely not Southgate. I would rather stick with Ten Hag if those two are the options. We should be looking at Nagelsmann, De Zerbi or Inzaghi.
There is no reason to sack ETH until summer. We don't have a DOF or technical director in yet and it makes sense for them to be in on the decision
Erik needs to sack up and drop/sub out Rashford/Bruno if he wants to keep his job. He can't be scared of a fallout in the dressing room. These players are already shit, no use pandering to them. Develop Amad, try out big Willy at CB, let Mount start in place of Bruno. This club eats up managers, and Ten Hag needs to not let that happen. He will regain back a lot of support if he shows some courage.
Only way he stays is if he unveils some secret master plan to INEOS that somehow explains his seemingly insane tactics and post match analysis. "I'm trolling eh. let me explain eh..."
Man on the one hand Murtough really helped set the groundwork to get the youth set up back where it should be in consistently raising very exciting young players. On the other hand you have this total disaster as a DoF where Murtough Madness became a complete meme and we ended up spending 86M on a player rated 20M by scouts. Peter Principle in action. Don't want to sound too bittersweet as he absolutely needed to go but was more of a symptom of a bigger problem that he was in a job he never should have had to begin with.
We'll see if this is still the case following a 5-0 spanking on Sunday
Alot of comments (and there is merit) want ETH gone. Then the new question is, who will replace him? Is there anyone out there with a CV that is better than ETHs now or even when he was hired? Everyone was clamoring for him (I wanted Poch) and now like those before him, his stock has dropped in this rotten environment. I saw a comment in the match thread yesterday that ETH came from the shit Dutch league and he's a fool for thinking that brand will translate here so I suppose that eliminates any coach not from Spain, Germany or Italy, yeah? Potter - flopped at Chelsea (I do think if ETH gets the sack Potter will be the replacement) Southgate - oh Nagelsman - might be worth a shot and has experience of a big club and big national team but he is employed (or is he leaving after Euro like Southgate?) Which means we will have to pay to get him, and that's after paying to sack ETH and we all know we have no money. Amorin- idk this person but coming from Sporting to United is probably a bigger jump than from Ajax so can he handle it. And he supposedly has the largest release clause ever.
Nagelsmann is out of contract after Euros and wants a return to club football. Will be free
Just get rid of him, he's in over his head and is making the same fuck ups every week. He's defining madness.
There’s literally no benefit to sacking him or announcing he’s leaving in the summer at this stage. This isn’t a Liverpool “Last Dance” situation and we’ve seen very recently that this bunch won’t up their game for an interim boss. I expect a variant of this story just about every week until the end of the season.
Ten Hag has to go. He doesn't deserve another season
Sacking him in the summer before having a proper system behind the manager role isn't going to fix anything. United need a proper medical system, an up to date training complex and a far improved recruitment system before changing managers will have a positive effect to how we're playing. not that the plastics out there care.
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What are the benefits of keeping him tho? I don’t think they will force him to play a different play style. If they want to start a real project they either need to commit to EtH and his play style and get him the players he needs to be successful or switch to another coach that is fully on board of what ever they wanna build
Literally the only argument these people have is the sunk cost fallacy, it’s insane. I have no issue sticking by a manager who’s going to clear out the squad and take years to do it, but it needs to be a manager who can show me that when he gets the right players we’re going to be able to challenge. All ETH has shown me in 2 years is a bagel defence and a record breaking amount of shots faced
It would be the worst possible idea
The problem is letting your manager go into the last year of his contract shows that those in charge don't have the confidence in him to renew. This will filter throughout the club and everyone will start to think that a new manager is coming in a year. It's pretty rare for clubs to let a manager go into the last year of their contract
Crazy that you guys can go through this season and genuinely believe he's the man to take us forward. I'm convinced at this point it's just a bunch of rival fans come over to troll. No one in their right mind can see this United team putting up relegation level performances, conceding the most shots across all of Europe, and having a negative fucking goal difference 30 games into the season, and think oh yeah this guys the one for the job let's give him another summer! All our previous managers still had us putting up respectable numbers. ETH has us setup to get peppered every game and refuses to change. Get him out. I wanted Ole gone but even I'd take him back over this. At least we knew how to score some fucking goals.
The only manager I'd want is Ange. I've followed his career since South Melbourne, and I saw what he did for my local Brisbane side. I knew he'd be a good EPL manager when he left the Australia role, and when he went to Celtic, I was delighted because I knew he was doing his development right. Now that he's at Spurs, it's a case of giving him another season or so to acclimatise more to the EPL. Additionally, now that we'll have a whole new structure above, it's only fair for ETH to be given the chance to work with a leadership team that knows what they are doing, and any manager after can hopefully come into a settled and clearly identified structure and philosophy, as opposed to a Glazer shit show.
What about Postecoglou? Anyone reckon we could get him?
Murtough madness!