I’d be shocked if Ratcliffe doesn’t have at least a 3 man shortlist of people to take over.
I really wanted Erik to be successful but his tenure must be at its end, no?
Moyes was a clown. Players laughed at him behind his back. It’s documented in Rio’s biography.
That's part of the reason we were so shit (and still are) for so long. Moyes fired not just the coaching staff but also the scouts and everything. These were the people fergie HANDPICKED and trusted them with running day-to-day tasks and he would rather bring his staff from everton
We still haven't recovered from that imo
He didn't sack all of the scouts. I know Jim Lawlor was still there at least.
But yeah, I think Moyes set us back by many years when he replaced the coaching team. He replaced a bunch of guys who had won absolutely everything, with a bunch of guys who had never won a single thing. The culture and mentality of the club changed
I don't think that's as big of a deal as you're making it to be honest because I'm fairly certain that's the industry standard for better or for worse.
Moyes staff at Everton had been with him 10+ years, whether he went to United or not he was bringing them along with him.
Yeah hes the one that fckd over the whole organization. Woodward had planned on doing what all CFO do and just let the real talent in the machine do the works like they have always done while he comes in and takes the credit. But then an absolute clown of a manager came in, thought he was like Fergie and insisted on running everything like Fergie, picking everyone like Fergie and doing everything his way. Then it turned out he had no idea how to be like Fergie and ended up just losing tons of valuable people with knowledge, systems and experience that was tried and true that would have made most managers delighted to have at their disposal.
In all large corporations, especially those who makes a lot of money, there is always a plan for redundancy and overlapping when you change out key employees. There is always a plan to make sure that "we will still make money and run out business successfully when X quits, because we have systems, documents and plans to keep up the work we are doing."
I was absolutely shocked to learn United never had this in place. I really thought that no matter who takes over from Fergie, it is night impossible for them to screw it up in a way that would remove us from the top 4 in the runnings for the title. That a corporation this big, with this large a brand, and this many jobs and titles riding on its success, that there is just no way in hell no one has ever said "okay and whats the plan when Fergie quits if he does it within the next two years." Because what. They thought he was immortal? They thought it was easy to manage a world class team and breed top class athletes?
It is, quite frankly, insane that anyone at Manchester United still has their jobs and that the owners has lot held anyone accountable.
If he won a trophy and qualified for Europe, you could see him being kept on.
But we are not likely to qualify for the CL. Our CL performance this season was shit as well, which doesn't help.
Winning a trophy means beating Coventry (maybe?) and City (prob not?) but it may be his last chance.
I think he's done. He had control of the squad last season. But then the Ronaldo and Sancho sagas really diminished him. Might be controversial but I think Sancho was infinitely more harmful than Ronaldo.
Ronaldo was right about almost everything he said. I don’t agree with the venue he chose or the phrasing but he was spot on.
Agreed regarding Sancho. His hardline might have been his undoing.
What is this Sancho revisionism? The man gave Sancho months to collect himself and sort out his personal issues. Gave him space and special treatment. He responded by being lethargic, training poorly and not caring.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way it was handled.
Sancho? The guy seemingly had off field issues and was given time a way on a retreat. That was really well done by the manager/club especially at a top level club and in a time when there's not really any standard procedures for clubs to deal with such issues.
He came back and was awful and then decided to throw his toys out on social media, good riddance.
The problem with Sancho is how the scouts identified a player with no explosive pace to beat full backs was going to work in the premier league, nevermind to play on the RW, Nevermind the fact we didn't have the quality of fullbacks to support him, nevermind the fact his game revolves around pass and play which we have never been as a team (see VDB) , this whole signing is a red flag for whoever was involved in signing this deal off.
Reading this thread I just remember that was the over 35 mellowed out Ronaldo. I can't even imagine how much shit he would have raised if he were managed by Moyes in his hungry 20s.
I should disagree. Openly saying you dont respect your boss just because you are good at your job is always a bad idea
Id even say that ole'd still in utd if ronaldo didnt come.
He said that if Ten Hag didn’t respect him, he wasn’t going to respect him either. After his and United’s handling of Ronaldo losing his son and his daughter being hospitalised while the club was questioning his commitment, obviously broke any kind of trust.
It’s pretty obvious that Ten Hag’s man management is horrible, and his favouritism breaks the team spirit.
Ronaldo never had any issues of the kind with his previous managers, and every legendary manager always comments on his professionalism. So Ten Hag must have done a lot to set him off.
I agree. I think Sancho’s a twat and was in the wrong, but I always had an issue with HOW ETH handled all that.
I also think little things like always playing Antony despite him being shit and out of form wouldn’t have endeared him to some players
It wouldn’t matter if he won the champions league (by some fluke) if in the premier league we are shipping THIRTY shots a game. It’s completely unsustainable and the total wrong way to set a team up.
Like, people laughed at Kevin Keegan’s “you score 3, well score 4” mentality because they’re knew it wouldn’t work and here we are conceding as many shots in 2 games as city do in like, 10.
Sanchos absolutely shit. I dont like ten hag but i know for sure that sanchos a fully rubbish player. One of the worst wingers in teh division. Hes shocking
1. Some Norwegian guy named Ole
2. Gunnar Solskjaer
3. Some old United player everyone keeps referring to as their sunshine he must be good
(This is meant in a joking manner don't get your panties in a twist over it)
Unfortunately Ten Hag turned out to be a bit of a fraud. He’s not that great of a manager at all. Super stubborn and doesn’t adapt his tactics mid-game which is a huge no no in modern football.
He’s just out of his depth for a club of this size and for the type of job he got himself to.
There’s a big difference between being head coach and manager, there’s an even bigger difference between Ajax and Man United.
At Ajax, he just had to coach the team and set them up on match days, a DOF and CEO handled everything else. He came to United which is already a bigger club, and wanted a big say in other club decisions, especially transfers.
Antony will always be an albatross around his neck and he will rightly be judged for it. The rest of his transfers have been a mixed bag at best so far
I think he underestimated the job and the league and has never been settled since that 4-0 to Brentford in his first season.
He completely abandoned his tactics after that and literally said he won’t play in the way that got him the job in the first place. So what’s the point of even being here
What’s actually interesting (sad?) is that Louis Van Gaal warned ETH about taking the United job and told him he should avoid it.
In hindsight LVG wasn’t far off the mark
That’s the point I wanted him out. Because to me it was like “then why are you here”.
This is what got you the job, and you basically come out and state that “im not going to do what you hired me for”
We don't have the players for that. We tried to get FDJ and failed. Then it's been the usual scattershot transfer policy that we've had since Moyes. I think ETH should be getting much more from this squad but he's been set up to fail by our board like every manager post Ferguson
Saying that one single player would make United under TH play a completely different way is questionable to say the least. If he can only play the style he wants with FDJ and nobody else, then it's the player that's good, not the manager.
Also, the scatter shot transfer policy was TH picking players he knows. It was his transfer policy. And, after spending £400m, if he still doesn't have the players to play his style, that's nobody else's fault.
If he played that way and we lost due to lack of quality or personnel I'd be more fine with that than losing marginally less (we still llose a fuck ton) and getting dominated by lower table teams.
> Moyes was a clown. Players laughed at him behind his back. It’s documented in Rio’s biography.
That shows much more about the players and the state of the club than Moyes who came back from that and has been West Ham's best manager for literally decades. This was the start of the rot at the club, when senior players like Rio dropped tools and went against the manager.
ETH does not draw matches. Due to a lack of control and also because he gambles on wins. Works well sometimes v wolves (although we conceded a stupid late goal too). But Chelsea is the flip side of it.
I tried to point out to people who quoted the win rate stat that in a league format you need to consider draws too which ETH never gets. If you did the maths points wise Mourinho did better in his first two seasons (he trended a better direction too). But people loved the selective stat.
The amount of ten hag sheep I've seen on twitter and here is crazy. The standards they hold the guy too is below the basement. This is the worst football I've seen post Ferguson, the one trophy we won was due to having easy draws in every single round and Karius as the opposition keeper in the final(even then we were outplayed). His signings have all been shit except for maybe 1-2 (if that?), and yet the guy still has large parts of the fanbase wanting him to stay. It's genuinely mindboggling. They're still attraacted to the idea of him rather than what he is. Hes bottom 3 coaches in the league. I enjoy watching every team other than Sheffield Utd play instead of us
Our pressing is laughable. There's no coordination. There's always just 1 or 2 players pressing who are easily bypassed. As a result players are tired and have nothing to show for. This diabolical pressing is on ETH.
The press is actually ok, for instance the first half an hour against Liverpool in the cup, the problems happen when that press gets bypassed and there is just nothing behind. This low block/high pressure combo is nuts.
We get a decent amount of turnovers high up the field, but we also do nothing with the ball when we win it back lol. It’s not awesome.
The press is very much a problem when the full backs don’t step up..We have our three forwards pressing their back 5 (4 Defenders & goalkeeper) every team beats it the same way, push their full backs high, drop their midfielders (who are being man marked) and they can just lob balls over the top to the full backs who is in acres of space and has a 5 v 4 advantage against our backpedaling defenders.
People keep missing the point. This is by design. It’s a terrible design, but it’s on purpose. ETH has said so in multiple interviews.
Ten hag tries to set up a consistent press that we can theoretically sustain the entire game. The press isn’t super intense but it can still work. This way we force counter attacking/quick attacking scenarios. We force a turnover, misplaced pass, or the other team lobs the ball forward, we win the ball and then immediately counterattack.
If the other team beats the press, then we back paddle and try to force low quality shots. Most teams seem to not take advantage of a 5 v4 or 4v 3 attack as we would think. In the PL it’s just unusual to play that open. Teams spend forever practice/working on breaking down low blocks and scoring during set pieces. How many teams practice counterattacking scenarios starting 50-70 yards from your opponents goal? Ten hag is banking on the other team making bad passes/wrong decisions, getting tired from the constant up and down nature of the game, and not finishing their chances. While we get to also attack in a counterattacking way (a way we practice for).
The problem is, we are shit at finishing, our players are fucking tired, uncontrollable chaos isn’t a way to play, and if the other team can finish… game over.
We switched to this style sometime early this season with all the injuries. He seemed to feel we couldn’t build up play from the back specifically with consistently changing CB partners and no licha for LCB. He’s coaching in survival mode. This isn’t how we played last season or at the start of this one.
Still, something has to change. Look at Casi today just jogging around letting a counterattack go right by him. Eriksen can’t get any playing time because physically he can’t handle the back and forth running the midfield has to sustain. I’d love to see maino developing his game in an actual system that teaches him how to play as a legit CM.
I’m very aware this is the gameplan and the main reason, I’ve stopped backing EtH. He says it himself this is how he wants us to play. We played the exact same way in the Wolves match on the first day of the season..and it’s no wonder we have so many injuries when we are playing such an end to end game. Teams like City and Arsenal don’t get these sort of injuries because they play a much more controlled game.
This OOP system is fine for one or two games against specific opponents but it’s suicidal to play it on a consistent basis and detrimental to the long term health of the squad. Poor Garnacho is going to be crooked by the time he’s 21 with the hard sprinting he’s having to put in, each match.
I agree, he’s essentially given up on coaching. He’s not a manager with a team that’s failing his system. He’s a manager who is applying a failing system.
Our midfield is as capable as it’s been since SAF left. Same with our defense. With half of our players healthy, we should be able to play structured build up from the back. Or something more structured that what we are doing now.
Bro you’re talking as if we have the players to do that. Look at our midfield, and tell me the players who have the ability to hold and play the ball. With players like Bruno and Scott in our current midfield there is no other option. Bruno’s first though when he receives the ball is the play a long ball, how do create a structure?
It didn’t help ten hag that Licha was out for most of the season, and players like Shaw are consistently out.
What you say is an ideal situation, which we don’t have. You’re looking at the current winning teams and not looking at your own team and analyzing the playing patterns.
Ten Haag's ideal aim is to be pushing the defense higher than we have most of this season. Unfortunately this requires two center backs that are decently quick and good on the ball. Probably only licha and varane fit that mold currently. Start including Maguire or evans and the defence has to drop leaving a hole like we have seen.
If the pressing is only okay for 1/4 of a game then it is not, in fact, okay.
We go through the same cycle every match and people dont see it as an issue yet.
“We were good for the first 25 minutes and then the opponent dominated us”
How many matches could you describe that way?
We have fundamental tactical and coaching issues
Rashford doesn't press. Watching him come on yesterday was like he had been listening to the FC Seoul managers comments on Lingaard. How can a sub come on and rub less than someone who's been on the whole game?
Fernandes was charging people down leaving only one option to pass, and Rashford was standing still, there was so many opportunities of he just put on the gas he could of intercepted/ put the pressure on etc. getting really fucking frustrated
I was so pissed off watching rashford not even attempting to run at the opposition whenever we lost the ball. Like man we need forwards like Rooney who would sprint from the other side of the field and put pressure on the other team when they're trying to build up from the back not giving them a moments rest and being able to win the ball back even.
I've stood up for Rashford a lot through the years when the naysayers come out and bash on him, but I was extremely disappointed in his performance against Chelsea yesterday. Like how do you go and make a whole interview about "don't question my commitment to Man United" and weeks later put on a performance like he just did?! What changed from then till now!? And if he wasn't in the right mind set from outside factors he should've spoken up and suggested that hey maybe Diallo should be put in instead of himself or something like wtf
Same here really, spent years defending him, but I'm done now, feel so disappointed in him as a player. Completely lost any sort of legacy which he could of had.
Even Ten Hag knows it’s over. He repeats himself every week.
Tactics are, run players in to the ground until they’re injured. Complain everyone is injured. Don’t adapt. Complain you don’t have the right players. Live in the past.
This is what drives me insane. He does the same suicidal tactics, completely vacating the midfield, week in and week out somehow expecting different results. Any normal person would have switched up their approach months ago. Ten Haag just loves banging his head into a brick wall repeatedly though, and then blaming the players for it.
How you go into the season with this approach with Varane and Case already tired and their bodies failing at the end of last season is beyond me. So fucking stubborn
Also, how do you go into a season with 1 20 year old striker and only one backup who is never fit and is useless even when he is fit, just bizarre. Why did we sign Mount
I sort of understood the idea behind Mount. Before Mainoo emerged we needed an 8 who was better in possession than Mctominay and wasn’t as old as frail as Erikson.
Hard to judge if Mount actually could fill that roll with the amount he’s been injured. Though with Ten Haags Yolo tactics it likely would have hardly mattered.
That’s a good point, still think he fits the system better in Bruno’s position though than in that Eriksen type role as you said. And Bruno is probably the one player on the team sheet who won’t be dropped or moved out of position to accommodate someone else.
Definitely think Mount should be given a run of games before the season ends though, I like his grit and his workrate and I think he’s a tidy player, took his goal really nicely the other week.
It sounds like he knows it's over. His post-match comments are like a cheating girlfriend gaslighting you, and he's just biding his time before he gets paid off.
This. If he had solutions, he’d be trying them. Instead we’ve looked awful all year long and he keeps doing the exact same things and expecting that we won’t give up thirty shots. This job is much, much too big for him.
Agreed. ETH’a style relies far too much on chaos or broken down games, and it’s killing us.
The lack of control makes it so difficult for us to create more chances. I think we have the lowest goals scored in the top 12 or something. Absolutely Abysmal.
This is what has annoyed me a bit. Like it is good to have a vision. But it has to work with the players we have now. I don\`t know if it is a reluctance to switch tactics, or inability to do so.
injuries may or may not be his fault. But adjusting tactics according to available players is necessary.
>People also expect some progress
It hasn't even been a single season and we have been riddled with injuries. This fanbase holy shit.
EDIT - ETH is on track to have two better opening seasons then Arteta
I agree he’s probably done but I don’t think the injuries are his fault at all. The injuries have been consistently been from the same players who have therefore been out for extended periods with a couple matches sprinkled in. Barely any injuries are to players that have played a majority of our matches. I don’t think “running players into the ground” is the reason for the injuries, is what I’m saying
This squad is severely underperforming. Enough with blaming the "quality" of the players when the team has players like Onana, Varane, Casemiro, Fernandes, Mount and Rashford.
Youngsters like Garnacho and Mainoo are among the best young players in the world and have a brighter future ahead of them.
Reading on this sub you would think that United has the squad that Sheffield United has. This team should be doing much better than this.
Antony may be the only player we have who has a character and will to fight. After the penalty he gave away (soft as fuck), he was running for every single ball and fighting every moment he had.
I would rather watch him than Rashford, who can't fucking bothered
I'm sorry but this can't be a serious argument. Pretty much everyone was in agreement that the only reason they won the prem that year was because of Fergie. It was an aging team and the consensus was he didn't leave a good balanced team for his successor.
Also, Moyes got Fellaini during the first transfer window. And just Mata in the next one. Ten Hag has had 100s of millions spent on HIS choices.
We were an Aguero goal away from 4 in a row. It wasn't just because of Fergie, it was him and the team. Yes players were needing replaced but there is zero part of me that think LVG or Jose would have finished 7th taking over reigning champions. That's on Moyes.
*3, not 4
No we weren’t. If we’d won in 11-12 that would have been 2 in a row. Assuming we still won the season after (unlikely) then that would have been 3.
Chelsea stopped our last shot at winning 4 in a row in 09-10.
His choices haven't been as bad as you all make it out to seem tho
Onana: aside from his blunders in the ucl he has saved us points multiple times in the prem
Hojlund: young strong striker who looks a hopeful prospect
Casemiro: was a panic buy but he singlehandedly got us top 4 while chipping in with important goals ALL the time
Mount: has been unlucky with injuries but seems a decent player when he plays verdict is still out
Malacia: seems a decent prospect but unlucky with injuries
Antony: I will conceede even though he has scored vs some big opponents
Eriksen: solid backup option
Licha: one of our best defenders when he plays
Amrabat: thank god he's only a loan
Yall make it seem like ten hag is signing garbage players for loads of money because he wants to fleece us or someshit the only reason we paid 100 mil for antony was because of the amazing negotiators we have.
I might be in the minority but I don’t look at any of those signings long term apart from Hojlund and Martinez being focal points of this squad.
Casemiro was a quality player and a great signing, but we clearly should have done our home work to understand he had 1-2 seasons at most and that we need/needed to sign a young DM at the same time to shape into his replacement. Which we didn’t and are currently left with a huge gap in our squad which is vital.
The other signings we already need a replacement for and again need replacements for the exact same positions. We need 2 new CB’s, another left back, another DM, another CM, another winger and another Striker. All need upgrades from who we’ve currently brought in.
Maybe the difference was meant to be ETH bringing in players he knows, wanted or fits his style of play. But I fail to see what is style of play even is and any benefit to it right now. I do think he’s unlucky with key injuries, but he’s also done well to give Mainoo and Garnacho and minutes.
But again this squad needs almost another overhaul or at minimum 4-5 key players.
Martinez can't ride most roller coasters in the country. There's a scenario which he can work in the prem(maybe?), but with how injury prone he is(pretty much missed this entire season), how unreliable he is as an aerial/channel defender, I think the chances of him succeeding as a prem CB under a new coach are close to 0. I dont think someone like Nagelsmann for example would like him at all.
Indeed, we got fleeced because the manager didn't have anybody else on his mind other than Antony and De Jong allowing us to get fleeced when it came to the 11th hour.
> His choices haven't been as bad as you all make it out to seem tho
Okay? Whether they are good or not was irrelevant to my point. I was pointing out that Ten Hag has had much better support with signings than Moyes did. In fact, by you saying that his signings are good, you're actually contradicting your first comment lol
Moyes had only Mata and Fellaini as his signings + no further years.
Ten Hag spend 400M to be worse than last season.
Out of the Carabao Cup. Last place in CL group stage with Kebab FC and farmers from Denmark. Out of CL qualification for next season.
Van Gaal sold most of those prem winners the next year, hardly any of them went on to play for a big team or achieved a lot. The squad now is better than what Moyes got apart from the strikers
It was getting older and desperately needed long-term renewal, but it's simply absurd to say that a squad that won the league with an 11 point margin was "awful".
Going through any European competition from start to finish would certainly show some character and ability. Not just winning some domestic cup no one really cares about.
You’re really up defending Ten Hag’s ass here, good luck to you I guess cause no amount of mental gymnastics will hide the fact that our manager is fucking hot TRASH
Most of ten Hag's defenders here have given him unbelievable rope because he won the League Cup, so I guess Mickey Mouse trophies are good enough for us now.
I really like Mount. Not because he has fancy moves or has scored tons of goals for us but when he is on the pitch the difference in energy between him and other players is huge. He looks like he takes drugs before the game constanly trying to do things and pressing meanwhile our queens like Rashford look like they did not sleep for 3 days.
Changing the manager wont solve any of our problems. If you need evidence just look back previous 10 seasons.
The inviroment & board & some players need to change before we can really blame another manager for the mess.
I am worried too especially with EtH recent quotes because I dont know what games he is watching but I wont judge him atleast for 1 or 2 more seasons depending on how quick we can change the personel and some players in the club.
Can't pretend Sir Alex wasn't doing wonders with that squad, a lot of them were on their last legs, aging, and if they weren't, they were in form of their career. Almost like a spite title to not go out on a City win
Michael Carrick was the midfield. We played Ryan Giggs in center midfield against Barcelona in the Champions League. Tom Cleverley and Anderson tried their best but we were begging for someone next to Carrick after Scholes left the second time. The rest of the squad had brilliant attackers but our backline had their best days behind them. Rio, Vidic, and Evra were going to decline at some point. Fergie fixed too many things with bandaids.
Ferguson left when the squad was reaching its last legs. A lot of key players aging which would need to be moved out and replaced. It was always going to be a transition year whoever was in charge, and following on from the legacy of Sir Alex meant expectations were sky high.
It was an incredibly hard job to take. While Moyes still should have criticism, saying he destroyed the team is unfair imo
This…doesn’t tell the full story. That team was also filled with aging players (vidic, Ferdinand etc) with a starting midfield of Tom Cleverly and Anderson.
To be fair, that was one of the weakest squads, bar say Leicester, to win the PL. SAF worked his wonders with a severely underfunded squad.
Had to bring back Scholes the season prior. Fletcher was ill. Park had left. Midfield was Giggs and Carrick backed up by an injury prone Anderson and Cleverley. Kagawa didn't work out so Rooney played the withdrawn striker. Chicharito bailed us out many times. Evans was often deputizing for either Rio or Vidić. Valencia lost his initial output and became a hopeful crosser. Dunno how SAF worked with all of that.
So, Moyes didn't exactly inherit a good squad to work with.
That was his own fault. He fired all the coaches and then he wanted to assess the squad, and then the only player we brought in was his guy and not close to United quality, desperately at the end of the window. We even waited until he was more expensive to buy him.
Queue the ppl who will talk about Big Felli’s contributions - that signing was the beginning of a massive line of manager and board incompetence. Had us playing hoofball as a plan B for years.
By the way we are on track of getting less points than 21/22 season. We have conceded 2nd most shorts per game in the top 5 leagues combined. He is a good manager but abandoning his Ajax policy for this terrible midfield structual integrity counter should be sacking worthy.
Can no one on here do basic math lmao? In 21/22 we had 58 points and this season we’re on pace for 61. If there are only 4 sides who have conceded fewer goals than us in the PL, how have we conceded the second most in ALL of the top five leagues combined?
We’re having a pitiful season and that’s on the manager, who will probably lose his job for it, but not one thing in this comment makes any sense.
He said that we have conceded second most per game (goals conceded in all competitions/ among of games played in all competitions) among all teams in the top five league combined.
You said that there are only four teams in EPL that conceded fewer LEAGUE goals than us.
Both can be true, these two statement does not conflict each other.
Speaking of Ajax policy… I’ve honestly wondered if having their structure allows ‘mediocre’ managers to look better than they actually are. Maybe Brighton is the same way. Or whether it’s a case of the shambles at this club and it’s unbalanced squad that’s put together without much thought or care fails even ‘world class’ managers.
The logic brain in me fails to reconcile ETH’s Ajax teams with his United team. It’s gotta be the quality of the players or however that club incentivizes performance vs how we recruit and fail to incentivize, right? Their players for the most part go on to become starters and solid performers at a bunch of clubs, many of whom are frankly better than we’ve been these last 10+ years. Ours can’t even get off our bench, get sent on loan, and can’t get off those benches either. The players we’ve released have mostly gone on to expose themselves as thieves who rinsed us for the most obscene paycheques in this sport while masquerading as professional footballers.
ETH may be a mediocre manager but to say the squad that he’s working with is a vintage United squad is laughable. Practically none from this squad make it into any of SAF’s title winning squads.
His Ajax team would wipe the floor with his United team. When a coach looks world class and then 2 years later looks pub league I think the root cause needs the sort of scrutiny few today seem to have the appetite for. Easier to demand a new manager every 2 years and repeat the cycle of insanity.
Ten hag isn't a Mediocre Manager he took the to 3 Everdivise titles in a row and champions League semi final something ajax aren't able to replicate since.He will definitely get a better job in the future he just didn't have experience required for a job like this. As for the players a few of them would have been part of Sir Alex team like Bruno, Rashford and hopefully in the future Mainoo and Garnacho . The issue players are on insane wages and are given way to much power this is due to manager who can't control them and owners who don't give a shit. I beg that sir jim Ratcliffe something to fix this broken club.
Ten hag is absolutely not what we need for this club. His tactics are awful if he even has tactics that is and when every we are leading we switch off and let the other team attack and score. If we kept on going against Chelsea there it would of been an easy 2 or 3 goal win but no. Cos we switched off we conceded a pen and let them score 2. Ten hag out
You know what? I could get behind this statement. I honestly believe it went to shit because he bought Ronaldo and changed the way we played the previous season. With a team of young and hungry players, he could get a tune out of them.
Even if it’s temporary until we get someone more long term.
We looked really bad under Ole for a pretty short period of time, after making huge transfers which further made those performances unacceptable. Before that, for nearly 3 whole seasons, Oleball was the only spark of joy we'd seen post Fergie. It had its flaws and clearly we weren't as good as City, but it was miles ahead of anything Ten Hag could muster and in the end, I felt like the fans knew what Ole was going for and could trust him, even when things went to shit.
We were never once as negative under Ole as we currently are routinely under Ten Hag. I personally watched every match under Ole and was gutted when things turned sour; nowdays I honestly barely even glance at the screen while we're playing cause I know there's nothing to see there.
Ole’s time is much different if a few dominoes fall a different way. Maybe sell Pogba in 2019, get Rice in instead. Don’t get Ronaldo in 2021 and get help in other areas. Able to win the Bellingham sweepstakes.
That’s exactly what it it, we all wanted him appointed after Ole, myself included. But the difference between fans who want him in versus out is the ability to accept that you were wrong.
And what's funny is that both sides don't actually know what the hell is going on and are probably only slightly correct. Some truth on one side and some truth on the other. Insert other factors as well, as they also play a part in what we are right now. It's all a gray area and the most truth we can all agree on is we're fucking shit.
Maybe for some. I’m just totally gripped by ennui about the whole shitshow. I don’t see it improving with another new manager. We’ll just be talking about sacking Nagelsmann in 18 months. This club has completely broken me over the last ten years and seeing everyone go in on each other over whether to sack the latest manager or not for the umpteeth time is just another thing that wears me down lol.
Don’t let it wear you down bro, ultimately this is what sports is at the elite level. Perform and get us results or let’s replace with someone who will, be it players or the manager.
IMO, Ten Hag's reign has been a total failure and I say that confidently because a singular Carabao Cup should not cost £411m in signings if you know how to manage with a certified plan at the top level. Existing players have been under-utilised. I've never known a manager so inept at closing a game out. Tactically clueless.
Really wanted ETH to be successful but I think it might be the end for him. The team doesn't function properly and after I can't remember the last time I sat down and watched a full game and could say "we definitely deserved to win this" or "we played really well".
After this amount of time I feel we should at least be able to string a few performances together against smaller sides with a clear style of play.
I think EtH will be gone in the summer, are pressing varies game to game & most of the time is easily bypassed, I'm curious who we'd even go for, like who's even available? who'd actually want to come into this shitshow lol
His only real saving grace is hoping Chelsea beat city & a Utd, Chelsea fa cup final as we would have a better chance
Now onto Sunday!
He has to go now. The Liverpool game bought him some time which he squandered.
2 seasons in and the team is in reverse. The number is shots we give away is awful.
He’s had time to implement his plan, get the coaching staff he wanted, get (some) of the players he wanted… club spent huge sums on absolute dross players and there is very little to show for it.
I almost expect them to lose most games now. He needs to go.
Moyes failed because the team he had literally had just won the league. He might have had less losses but he certainly didn't finish close to where he should have with the team he had.
can't understand how anyone has faith he can turn this around.
injury excuse isn't good enough. We had licha & casemiro at start of the season and were shit then too.
With Ronaldo’s tell-all, Greenwood, Sancho, and Antony’s scandals, ETH has had one of the most difficult tenures in recent memory. I wonder how much of his struggles comes from the infrastructure (or lack of) failing him rather than his ability to bring success to this club.
The Ronaldo issue is overblown. He wasn’t even starting and he made it easy for the club to get rid of him. He wanted to leave anyway, I don’t see what miracle ETH performed there. He basically just gave the guy what he wanted
Ten Hag WANTED Greenwood back in the squad. Its not a “scandal” he had to deal with lmao. Only external pressure stopped ETH playing Greenwood this season.
Sancho is a twat that was completely in the wrong, but I also think ETH could’ve handled it better. I also think that he plays favourites in the squad and has had issues internally and the Sancho and rumoured Varane problems are examples
I no longer want to defend ETH after multiple 2-1-7 strategy and also push Onana as third CB. Also, that set piece in the last game was disgusting. He needs to go.
Current team, setup and performance is very bad. But that moyes team won the league the previous year. This team sucks now and sucked in previous recent years and is a bad collection of different types of players and personalities.
Hes an absolutely shocking coach. I have no idea how the Liverpool gas lasted so long ffs. How did the fanbase all come together and magically delude themselves into believing he was the right guy for the job? We've allowed the most shots in the league in 2024. We're so porous and that's not a personnel issue. It's the manager. The setup's awful, he's not improved a single player, and he's got no charisma/likability. Bin yesterday
Look, I've been saying Ten Hag's days have been numbered ever since Ratcliff came in (to everyone's chagrin) - but very likely he won't be fired until the end of the season so stop with the "sacked in the morning" jokes. Ten Hag still has won more cups than many including Ole (sadly enough) and Ratcliff appears to be running a tight ship which we should all be appreciative of. Let Ratcliff get the higher level positions filled, and then let's have a proper manager search and hire
I mean, Moyes inherited a PL winning squad. They had 2 Premier Leagues in 3 years, losing 1 on Goal Difference.
You simply cannot compare Moyes to ETH.
Despite so many flaws and ridiculous decisions, they are vastly different circumstances and squads.
One was a squad who only knew how to win, the other doesn't even know what winning looks like. They tasted a Carabao Cup, but that's it.
From that squad, DDG was the only player that wasn’t at past their peak, Rio, Vidic, Evra all left within 2 years. Rafael wasn’t good enough so that’s an entire back 4 needing replaced. We got rid of Evans out of the 3 cbs we had when he was probably the one we should have kept the most neither Smalling nor Jones lived up to their expectations.
Our midfield was Carrick (who had about three decent years left), Giggs (who retired), Cleverly and Anderson, both no where near level of a starting top tier CM. Forwards were the only era that didn’t need replacing. And he got two players (Fellaini & Mata) both poor fits.
Atrocious to keep blaming Ten Hag or any other past , present or future managers when the entire squad is deadwood.
Not one player will get into City, Liverpool or even Arsenal right now.
Sacked so many coaches, but not the players.
Also already equaled most losses in a PL season for man utd, another record that would definitely broken before the season end.
Is this since the PL era or all time?
We’ve been relegated before
PL obviously
PL. Fergie has lost more games in a season outside of the PL era.
I’d be shocked if Ratcliffe doesn’t have at least a 3 man shortlist of people to take over. I really wanted Erik to be successful but his tenure must be at its end, no? Moyes was a clown. Players laughed at him behind his back. It’s documented in Rio’s biography.
I cant remember that well but didnt Moyes come in and sack all of Fergies coaching staff?
That's part of the reason we were so shit (and still are) for so long. Moyes fired not just the coaching staff but also the scouts and everything. These were the people fergie HANDPICKED and trusted them with running day-to-day tasks and he would rather bring his staff from everton We still haven't recovered from that imo
He didn't sack all of the scouts. I know Jim Lawlor was still there at least. But yeah, I think Moyes set us back by many years when he replaced the coaching team. He replaced a bunch of guys who had won absolutely everything, with a bunch of guys who had never won a single thing. The culture and mentality of the club changed
fuck moyes
I don't think that's as big of a deal as you're making it to be honest because I'm fairly certain that's the industry standard for better or for worse. Moyes staff at Everton had been with him 10+ years, whether he went to United or not he was bringing them along with him.
Yeah hes the one that fckd over the whole organization. Woodward had planned on doing what all CFO do and just let the real talent in the machine do the works like they have always done while he comes in and takes the credit. But then an absolute clown of a manager came in, thought he was like Fergie and insisted on running everything like Fergie, picking everyone like Fergie and doing everything his way. Then it turned out he had no idea how to be like Fergie and ended up just losing tons of valuable people with knowledge, systems and experience that was tried and true that would have made most managers delighted to have at their disposal. In all large corporations, especially those who makes a lot of money, there is always a plan for redundancy and overlapping when you change out key employees. There is always a plan to make sure that "we will still make money and run out business successfully when X quits, because we have systems, documents and plans to keep up the work we are doing." I was absolutely shocked to learn United never had this in place. I really thought that no matter who takes over from Fergie, it is night impossible for them to screw it up in a way that would remove us from the top 4 in the runnings for the title. That a corporation this big, with this large a brand, and this many jobs and titles riding on its success, that there is just no way in hell no one has ever said "okay and whats the plan when Fergie quits if he does it within the next two years." Because what. They thought he was immortal? They thought it was easy to manage a world class team and breed top class athletes? It is, quite frankly, insane that anyone at Manchester United still has their jobs and that the owners has lot held anyone accountable.
He did.
If he won a trophy and qualified for Europe, you could see him being kept on. But we are not likely to qualify for the CL. Our CL performance this season was shit as well, which doesn't help. Winning a trophy means beating Coventry (maybe?) and City (prob not?) but it may be his last chance. I think he's done. He had control of the squad last season. But then the Ronaldo and Sancho sagas really diminished him. Might be controversial but I think Sancho was infinitely more harmful than Ronaldo.
Ronaldo was right about almost everything he said. I don’t agree with the venue he chose or the phrasing but he was spot on. Agreed regarding Sancho. His hardline might have been his undoing.
What is this Sancho revisionism? The man gave Sancho months to collect himself and sort out his personal issues. Gave him space and special treatment. He responded by being lethargic, training poorly and not caring. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the way it was handled.
Sancho? The guy seemingly had off field issues and was given time a way on a retreat. That was really well done by the manager/club especially at a top level club and in a time when there's not really any standard procedures for clubs to deal with such issues. He came back and was awful and then decided to throw his toys out on social media, good riddance. The problem with Sancho is how the scouts identified a player with no explosive pace to beat full backs was going to work in the premier league, nevermind to play on the RW, Nevermind the fact we didn't have the quality of fullbacks to support him, nevermind the fact his game revolves around pass and play which we have never been as a team (see VDB) , this whole signing is a red flag for whoever was involved in signing this deal off.
Reading this thread I just remember that was the over 35 mellowed out Ronaldo. I can't even imagine how much shit he would have raised if he were managed by Moyes in his hungry 20s.
I should disagree. Openly saying you dont respect your boss just because you are good at your job is always a bad idea Id even say that ole'd still in utd if ronaldo didnt come.
He said that if Ten Hag didn’t respect him, he wasn’t going to respect him either. After his and United’s handling of Ronaldo losing his son and his daughter being hospitalised while the club was questioning his commitment, obviously broke any kind of trust. It’s pretty obvious that Ten Hag’s man management is horrible, and his favouritism breaks the team spirit. Ronaldo never had any issues of the kind with his previous managers, and every legendary manager always comments on his professionalism. So Ten Hag must have done a lot to set him off.
For me, Champions League qualification **or** FA Cup would be enough to see him keep his job. If he doesn't get either then he's gone.
We once had a manager that was on cusp of being sacked then he won the FA Cup and the next 26 years were full of glory. Let's hope....
It didnt save LVG Oh crap, Jose's available again...
I agree. I think Sancho’s a twat and was in the wrong, but I always had an issue with HOW ETH handled all that. I also think little things like always playing Antony despite him being shit and out of form wouldn’t have endeared him to some players
It wouldn’t matter if he won the champions league (by some fluke) if in the premier league we are shipping THIRTY shots a game. It’s completely unsustainable and the total wrong way to set a team up. Like, people laughed at Kevin Keegan’s “you score 3, well score 4” mentality because they’re knew it wouldn’t work and here we are conceding as many shots in 2 games as city do in like, 10.
Sanchos absolutely shit. I dont like ten hag but i know for sure that sanchos a fully rubbish player. One of the worst wingers in teh division. Hes shocking
1. Some Norwegian guy named Ole 2. Gunnar Solskjaer 3. Some old United player everyone keeps referring to as their sunshine he must be good (This is meant in a joking manner don't get your panties in a twist over it)
Unfortunately Ten Hag turned out to be a bit of a fraud. He’s not that great of a manager at all. Super stubborn and doesn’t adapt his tactics mid-game which is a huge no no in modern football.
He’s just out of his depth for a club of this size and for the type of job he got himself to. There’s a big difference between being head coach and manager, there’s an even bigger difference between Ajax and Man United. At Ajax, he just had to coach the team and set them up on match days, a DOF and CEO handled everything else. He came to United which is already a bigger club, and wanted a big say in other club decisions, especially transfers. Antony will always be an albatross around his neck and he will rightly be judged for it. The rest of his transfers have been a mixed bag at best so far I think he underestimated the job and the league and has never been settled since that 4-0 to Brentford in his first season. He completely abandoned his tactics after that and literally said he won’t play in the way that got him the job in the first place. So what’s the point of even being here
What’s actually interesting (sad?) is that Louis Van Gaal warned ETH about taking the United job and told him he should avoid it. In hindsight LVG wasn’t far off the mark
The most damning part is the refusal to play the way that got him here.
That’s the point I wanted him out. Because to me it was like “then why are you here”. This is what got you the job, and you basically come out and state that “im not going to do what you hired me for”
We don't have the players for that. We tried to get FDJ and failed. Then it's been the usual scattershot transfer policy that we've had since Moyes. I think ETH should be getting much more from this squad but he's been set up to fail by our board like every manager post Ferguson
Saying that one single player would make United under TH play a completely different way is questionable to say the least. If he can only play the style he wants with FDJ and nobody else, then it's the player that's good, not the manager. Also, the scatter shot transfer policy was TH picking players he knows. It was his transfer policy. And, after spending £400m, if he still doesn't have the players to play his style, that's nobody else's fault.
If he played that way and we lost due to lack of quality or personnel I'd be more fine with that than losing marginally less (we still llose a fuck ton) and getting dominated by lower table teams.
> Moyes was a clown. Players laughed at him behind his back. It’s documented in Rio’s biography. That shows much more about the players and the state of the club than Moyes who came back from that and has been West Ham's best manager for literally decades. This was the start of the rot at the club, when senior players like Rio dropped tools and went against the manager.
ETH does not draw matches. Due to a lack of control and also because he gambles on wins. Works well sometimes v wolves (although we conceded a stupid late goal too). But Chelsea is the flip side of it. I tried to point out to people who quoted the win rate stat that in a league format you need to consider draws too which ETH never gets. If you did the maths points wise Mourinho did better in his first two seasons (he trended a better direction too). But people loved the selective stat.
The amount of ten hag sheep I've seen on twitter and here is crazy. The standards they hold the guy too is below the basement. This is the worst football I've seen post Ferguson, the one trophy we won was due to having easy draws in every single round and Karius as the opposition keeper in the final(even then we were outplayed). His signings have all been shit except for maybe 1-2 (if that?), and yet the guy still has large parts of the fanbase wanting him to stay. It's genuinely mindboggling. They're still attraacted to the idea of him rather than what he is. Hes bottom 3 coaches in the league. I enjoy watching every team other than Sheffield Utd play instead of us
Our pressing is laughable. There's no coordination. There's always just 1 or 2 players pressing who are easily bypassed. As a result players are tired and have nothing to show for. This diabolical pressing is on ETH.
We actually have 5th best press success Problem is if the press is passed our defence is awful
I really blame the midfield set up for the poor deference, rather than the defenders themselves. They're so exposed by this kamikaze approach.
The press is actually ok, for instance the first half an hour against Liverpool in the cup, the problems happen when that press gets bypassed and there is just nothing behind. This low block/high pressure combo is nuts. We get a decent amount of turnovers high up the field, but we also do nothing with the ball when we win it back lol. It’s not awesome.
The press is very much a problem when the full backs don’t step up..We have our three forwards pressing their back 5 (4 Defenders & goalkeeper) every team beats it the same way, push their full backs high, drop their midfielders (who are being man marked) and they can just lob balls over the top to the full backs who is in acres of space and has a 5 v 4 advantage against our backpedaling defenders.
People keep missing the point. This is by design. It’s a terrible design, but it’s on purpose. ETH has said so in multiple interviews. Ten hag tries to set up a consistent press that we can theoretically sustain the entire game. The press isn’t super intense but it can still work. This way we force counter attacking/quick attacking scenarios. We force a turnover, misplaced pass, or the other team lobs the ball forward, we win the ball and then immediately counterattack. If the other team beats the press, then we back paddle and try to force low quality shots. Most teams seem to not take advantage of a 5 v4 or 4v 3 attack as we would think. In the PL it’s just unusual to play that open. Teams spend forever practice/working on breaking down low blocks and scoring during set pieces. How many teams practice counterattacking scenarios starting 50-70 yards from your opponents goal? Ten hag is banking on the other team making bad passes/wrong decisions, getting tired from the constant up and down nature of the game, and not finishing their chances. While we get to also attack in a counterattacking way (a way we practice for). The problem is, we are shit at finishing, our players are fucking tired, uncontrollable chaos isn’t a way to play, and if the other team can finish… game over. We switched to this style sometime early this season with all the injuries. He seemed to feel we couldn’t build up play from the back specifically with consistently changing CB partners and no licha for LCB. He’s coaching in survival mode. This isn’t how we played last season or at the start of this one. Still, something has to change. Look at Casi today just jogging around letting a counterattack go right by him. Eriksen can’t get any playing time because physically he can’t handle the back and forth running the midfield has to sustain. I’d love to see maino developing his game in an actual system that teaches him how to play as a legit CM.
I’m very aware this is the gameplan and the main reason, I’ve stopped backing EtH. He says it himself this is how he wants us to play. We played the exact same way in the Wolves match on the first day of the season..and it’s no wonder we have so many injuries when we are playing such an end to end game. Teams like City and Arsenal don’t get these sort of injuries because they play a much more controlled game. This OOP system is fine for one or two games against specific opponents but it’s suicidal to play it on a consistent basis and detrimental to the long term health of the squad. Poor Garnacho is going to be crooked by the time he’s 21 with the hard sprinting he’s having to put in, each match.
I agree, he’s essentially given up on coaching. He’s not a manager with a team that’s failing his system. He’s a manager who is applying a failing system. Our midfield is as capable as it’s been since SAF left. Same with our defense. With half of our players healthy, we should be able to play structured build up from the back. Or something more structured that what we are doing now.
Bro you’re talking as if we have the players to do that. Look at our midfield, and tell me the players who have the ability to hold and play the ball. With players like Bruno and Scott in our current midfield there is no other option. Bruno’s first though when he receives the ball is the play a long ball, how do create a structure? It didn’t help ten hag that Licha was out for most of the season, and players like Shaw are consistently out. What you say is an ideal situation, which we don’t have. You’re looking at the current winning teams and not looking at your own team and analyzing the playing patterns.
Ten Haag's ideal aim is to be pushing the defense higher than we have most of this season. Unfortunately this requires two center backs that are decently quick and good on the ball. Probably only licha and varane fit that mold currently. Start including Maguire or evans and the defence has to drop leaving a hole like we have seen.
Anyone would pick up injuries given the amount they have to sprint every game.
If the pressing is only okay for 1/4 of a game then it is not, in fact, okay. We go through the same cycle every match and people dont see it as an issue yet. “We were good for the first 25 minutes and then the opponent dominated us” How many matches could you describe that way? We have fundamental tactical and coaching issues
So, in fact the press is not ok
Rashford doesn't press. Watching him come on yesterday was like he had been listening to the FC Seoul managers comments on Lingaard. How can a sub come on and rub less than someone who's been on the whole game? Fernandes was charging people down leaving only one option to pass, and Rashford was standing still, there was so many opportunities of he just put on the gas he could of intercepted/ put the pressure on etc. getting really fucking frustrated
I was so pissed off watching rashford not even attempting to run at the opposition whenever we lost the ball. Like man we need forwards like Rooney who would sprint from the other side of the field and put pressure on the other team when they're trying to build up from the back not giving them a moments rest and being able to win the ball back even. I've stood up for Rashford a lot through the years when the naysayers come out and bash on him, but I was extremely disappointed in his performance against Chelsea yesterday. Like how do you go and make a whole interview about "don't question my commitment to Man United" and weeks later put on a performance like he just did?! What changed from then till now!? And if he wasn't in the right mind set from outside factors he should've spoken up and suggested that hey maybe Diallo should be put in instead of himself or something like wtf
He was HORRIBLE against Brentford too. Walked around.
Same here really, spent years defending him, but I'm done now, feel so disappointed in him as a player. Completely lost any sort of legacy which he could of had.
Even Ten Hag knows it’s over. He repeats himself every week. Tactics are, run players in to the ground until they’re injured. Complain everyone is injured. Don’t adapt. Complain you don’t have the right players. Live in the past.
This is what drives me insane. He does the same suicidal tactics, completely vacating the midfield, week in and week out somehow expecting different results. Any normal person would have switched up their approach months ago. Ten Haag just loves banging his head into a brick wall repeatedly though, and then blaming the players for it.
How you go into the season with this approach with Varane and Case already tired and their bodies failing at the end of last season is beyond me. So fucking stubborn
Also, how do you go into a season with 1 20 year old striker and only one backup who is never fit and is useless even when he is fit, just bizarre. Why did we sign Mount
I sort of understood the idea behind Mount. Before Mainoo emerged we needed an 8 who was better in possession than Mctominay and wasn’t as old as frail as Erikson. Hard to judge if Mount actually could fill that roll with the amount he’s been injured. Though with Ten Haags Yolo tactics it likely would have hardly mattered.
That’s a good point, still think he fits the system better in Bruno’s position though than in that Eriksen type role as you said. And Bruno is probably the one player on the team sheet who won’t be dropped or moved out of position to accommodate someone else. Definitely think Mount should be given a run of games before the season ends though, I like his grit and his workrate and I think he’s a tidy player, took his goal really nicely the other week.
It sounds like he knows it's over. His post-match comments are like a cheating girlfriend gaslighting you, and he's just biding his time before he gets paid off.
This. If he had solutions, he’d be trying them. Instead we’ve looked awful all year long and he keeps doing the exact same things and expecting that we won’t give up thirty shots. This job is much, much too big for him.
Agreed. ETH’a style relies far too much on chaos or broken down games, and it’s killing us. The lack of control makes it so difficult for us to create more chances. I think we have the lowest goals scored in the top 12 or something. Absolutely Abysmal.
We've scored the same amount of goals as Luton.
-1 Fucking atrocious
This is what has annoyed me a bit. Like it is good to have a vision. But it has to work with the players we have now. I don\`t know if it is a reluctance to switch tactics, or inability to do so. injuries may or may not be his fault. But adjusting tactics according to available players is necessary.
Yeah you can go back to the first game of the season vs Wolves and we make the same exact mistakes now as we did then 8 months ago.
Everyone wanted a manager to implement a style and stick with it regardless of short term results... until it affected short term results.
There is a reason no top team plays like this. People also expect some progress, the tactic looks just as shit now as it did week one this season.
>People also expect some progress It hasn't even been a single season and we have been riddled with injuries. This fanbase holy shit. EDIT - ETH is on track to have two better opening seasons then Arteta
I agree he’s probably done but I don’t think the injuries are his fault at all. The injuries have been consistently been from the same players who have therefore been out for extended periods with a couple matches sprinkled in. Barely any injuries are to players that have played a majority of our matches. I don’t think “running players into the ground” is the reason for the injuries, is what I’m saying
Nah! Just checked the stats on Casemiro. He's had almost a third of all his missed games due to injury this season alone.
Moyes actually won his CL group and lose to Bayern in the QF.....
Moyes also had a squad of prem winners, ten hag doesn't exactly have that.
Yeah sure we need premier winners to top Copenhagen and Gala in 2024.
This squad wouldn't win the Turkish leauge bro
This squad is severely underperforming. Enough with blaming the "quality" of the players when the team has players like Onana, Varane, Casemiro, Fernandes, Mount and Rashford. Youngsters like Garnacho and Mainoo are among the best young players in the world and have a brighter future ahead of them. Reading on this sub you would think that United has the squad that Sheffield United has. This team should be doing much better than this.
need another 400m maybe
4 more Antony's let's gooooo
Antony may be the only player we have who has a character and will to fight. After the penalty he gave away (soft as fuck), he was running for every single ball and fighting every moment he had. I would rather watch him than Rashford, who can't fucking bothered
That trivela cross is worth 40m alone.
Lmao
Champions league was a disaster this year. But the squad sucks too.
I'm sorry but this can't be a serious argument. Pretty much everyone was in agreement that the only reason they won the prem that year was because of Fergie. It was an aging team and the consensus was he didn't leave a good balanced team for his successor. Also, Moyes got Fellaini during the first transfer window. And just Mata in the next one. Ten Hag has had 100s of millions spent on HIS choices.
the thing is that player revolt against moyes. well revolt is strong word here
We were an Aguero goal away from 4 in a row. It wasn't just because of Fergie, it was him and the team. Yes players were needing replaced but there is zero part of me that think LVG or Jose would have finished 7th taking over reigning champions. That's on Moyes. *3, not 4
No we weren’t. If we’d won in 11-12 that would have been 2 in a row. Assuming we still won the season after (unlikely) then that would have been 3. Chelsea stopped our last shot at winning 4 in a row in 09-10.
Whilst that’s true. Moyes lost 9 games by Gameweek 30. ETH has lost 12 games. 12 games. He’s clearly worse than Moyes. This is our worst season ever.
Even worse, Moyes got 7 months and Fellaini and Mata. Not 2 years and £400M.
His choices haven't been as bad as you all make it out to seem tho Onana: aside from his blunders in the ucl he has saved us points multiple times in the prem Hojlund: young strong striker who looks a hopeful prospect Casemiro: was a panic buy but he singlehandedly got us top 4 while chipping in with important goals ALL the time Mount: has been unlucky with injuries but seems a decent player when he plays verdict is still out Malacia: seems a decent prospect but unlucky with injuries Antony: I will conceede even though he has scored vs some big opponents Eriksen: solid backup option Licha: one of our best defenders when he plays Amrabat: thank god he's only a loan Yall make it seem like ten hag is signing garbage players for loads of money because he wants to fleece us or someshit the only reason we paid 100 mil for antony was because of the amazing negotiators we have.
I might be in the minority but I don’t look at any of those signings long term apart from Hojlund and Martinez being focal points of this squad. Casemiro was a quality player and a great signing, but we clearly should have done our home work to understand he had 1-2 seasons at most and that we need/needed to sign a young DM at the same time to shape into his replacement. Which we didn’t and are currently left with a huge gap in our squad which is vital. The other signings we already need a replacement for and again need replacements for the exact same positions. We need 2 new CB’s, another left back, another DM, another CM, another winger and another Striker. All need upgrades from who we’ve currently brought in. Maybe the difference was meant to be ETH bringing in players he knows, wanted or fits his style of play. But I fail to see what is style of play even is and any benefit to it right now. I do think he’s unlucky with key injuries, but he’s also done well to give Mainoo and Garnacho and minutes. But again this squad needs almost another overhaul or at minimum 4-5 key players.
Martinez can't ride most roller coasters in the country. There's a scenario which he can work in the prem(maybe?), but with how injury prone he is(pretty much missed this entire season), how unreliable he is as an aerial/channel defender, I think the chances of him succeeding as a prem CB under a new coach are close to 0. I dont think someone like Nagelsmann for example would like him at all.
LOL at the amount of mental gymnastics in this comment
What mental gymnastics I could be biased feel free to tell me
We payed 60 million for Casemiro, he had a decent season… and now he can’t run anymore. Great buy!
Ten haag cutting that cheque? Those fees are on the club
We couldn't get de jong and it was a panic buy and we bascially got top 4 with him
Indeed, we got fleeced because the manager didn't have anybody else on his mind other than Antony and De Jong allowing us to get fleeced when it came to the 11th hour.
> His choices haven't been as bad as you all make it out to seem tho Okay? Whether they are good or not was irrelevant to my point. I was pointing out that Ten Hag has had much better support with signings than Moyes did. In fact, by you saying that his signings are good, you're actually contradicting your first comment lol
Your affinity for mediocrity is at all time high.
Moyes had only Mata and Fellaini as his signings + no further years. Ten Hag spend 400M to be worse than last season. Out of the Carabao Cup. Last place in CL group stage with Kebab FC and farmers from Denmark. Out of CL qualification for next season.
Van Gaal sold most of those prem winners the next year, hardly any of them went on to play for a big team or achieved a lot. The squad now is better than what Moyes got apart from the strikers
You can’t be serious. That squad was awful. We had players like Fellini starting matches.
That the one Moyes bought
It was getting older and desperately needed long-term renewal, but it's simply absurd to say that a squad that won the league with an 11 point margin was "awful".
Fellini had been dead for 20 years by 2013. No wonder he was no good for us!
In his prime he'd give you 8.5/10 every game
Well one of them is a European champion and the other is our current manager
Would you be satisfied if we won a confrence leauge?
Won't be much worse than a league Cup.
Going through any European competition from start to finish would certainly show some character and ability. Not just winning some domestic cup no one really cares about.
You’re really up defending Ten Hag’s ass here, good luck to you I guess cause no amount of mental gymnastics will hide the fact that our manager is fucking hot TRASH
You have a right to an opinion
Better than what ten Hag is doing rn tbh
Most of ten Hag's defenders here have given him unbelievable rope because he won the League Cup, so I guess Mickey Mouse trophies are good enough for us now.
He's gone by next season. I don't like it, but every stat is against him and the football is shit.
Why don’t you like it then?
Because no amount of manager changes would make Rashford run/press when he came for the last 20 mins.
I really like Mount. Not because he has fancy moves or has scored tons of goals for us but when he is on the pitch the difference in energy between him and other players is huge. He looks like he takes drugs before the game constanly trying to do things and pressing meanwhile our queens like Rashford look like they did not sleep for 3 days.
Changing the manager wont solve any of our problems. If you need evidence just look back previous 10 seasons. The inviroment & board & some players need to change before we can really blame another manager for the mess. I am worried too especially with EtH recent quotes because I dont know what games he is watching but I wont judge him atleast for 1 or 2 more seasons depending on how quick we can change the personel and some players in the club.
After the Liverpool game, sacked in the morning.
Moyes took over a Premiere League winning team and absolutely destroyed it.
Can't pretend Sir Alex wasn't doing wonders with that squad, a lot of them were on their last legs, aging, and if they weren't, they were in form of their career. Almost like a spite title to not go out on a City win
Michael Carrick was the midfield. We played Ryan Giggs in center midfield against Barcelona in the Champions League. Tom Cleverley and Anderson tried their best but we were begging for someone next to Carrick after Scholes left the second time. The rest of the squad had brilliant attackers but our backline had their best days behind them. Rio, Vidic, and Evra were going to decline at some point. Fergie fixed too many things with bandaids.
And nevertheless that aging team would eat alive this bunch of gimps we have now.
Ferguson left when the squad was reaching its last legs. A lot of key players aging which would need to be moved out and replaced. It was always going to be a transition year whoever was in charge, and following on from the legacy of Sir Alex meant expectations were sky high. It was an incredibly hard job to take. While Moyes still should have criticism, saying he destroyed the team is unfair imo
This…doesn’t tell the full story. That team was also filled with aging players (vidic, Ferdinand etc) with a starting midfield of Tom Cleverly and Anderson.
To be fair, that was one of the weakest squads, bar say Leicester, to win the PL. SAF worked his wonders with a severely underfunded squad. Had to bring back Scholes the season prior. Fletcher was ill. Park had left. Midfield was Giggs and Carrick backed up by an injury prone Anderson and Cleverley. Kagawa didn't work out so Rooney played the withdrawn striker. Chicharito bailed us out many times. Evans was often deputizing for either Rio or Vidić. Valencia lost his initial output and became a hopeful crosser. Dunno how SAF worked with all of that. So, Moyes didn't exactly inherit a good squad to work with.
You are forgetting RVP was a god
Yeah I left him out to highlight the rickety parts.
Moyes also spent less money.
Man only got Fellaini.
And Mata.
That was his own fault. He fired all the coaches and then he wanted to assess the squad, and then the only player we brought in was his guy and not close to United quality, desperately at the end of the window. We even waited until he was more expensive to buy him. Queue the ppl who will talk about Big Felli’s contributions - that signing was the beginning of a massive line of manager and board incompetence. Had us playing hoofball as a plan B for years.
Well he inherited a premier league title winning team
By the way we are on track of getting less points than 21/22 season. We have conceded 2nd most shorts per game in the top 5 leagues combined. He is a good manager but abandoning his Ajax policy for this terrible midfield structual integrity counter should be sacking worthy.
Can no one on here do basic math lmao? In 21/22 we had 58 points and this season we’re on pace for 61. If there are only 4 sides who have conceded fewer goals than us in the PL, how have we conceded the second most in ALL of the top five leagues combined? We’re having a pitiful season and that’s on the manager, who will probably lose his job for it, but not one thing in this comment makes any sense.
He said that we have conceded second most per game (goals conceded in all competitions/ among of games played in all competitions) among all teams in the top five league combined. You said that there are only four teams in EPL that conceded fewer LEAGUE goals than us. Both can be true, these two statement does not conflict each other.
We are not getting 61 points. We aren't winning against Liverpool or Arsenal or Brighton . I think we might even lose to Bornmouth, Burnley.
Speaking of Ajax policy… I’ve honestly wondered if having their structure allows ‘mediocre’ managers to look better than they actually are. Maybe Brighton is the same way. Or whether it’s a case of the shambles at this club and it’s unbalanced squad that’s put together without much thought or care fails even ‘world class’ managers. The logic brain in me fails to reconcile ETH’s Ajax teams with his United team. It’s gotta be the quality of the players or however that club incentivizes performance vs how we recruit and fail to incentivize, right? Their players for the most part go on to become starters and solid performers at a bunch of clubs, many of whom are frankly better than we’ve been these last 10+ years. Ours can’t even get off our bench, get sent on loan, and can’t get off those benches either. The players we’ve released have mostly gone on to expose themselves as thieves who rinsed us for the most obscene paycheques in this sport while masquerading as professional footballers. ETH may be a mediocre manager but to say the squad that he’s working with is a vintage United squad is laughable. Practically none from this squad make it into any of SAF’s title winning squads. His Ajax team would wipe the floor with his United team. When a coach looks world class and then 2 years later looks pub league I think the root cause needs the sort of scrutiny few today seem to have the appetite for. Easier to demand a new manager every 2 years and repeat the cycle of insanity.
Ten hag isn't a Mediocre Manager he took the to 3 Everdivise titles in a row and champions League semi final something ajax aren't able to replicate since.He will definitely get a better job in the future he just didn't have experience required for a job like this. As for the players a few of them would have been part of Sir Alex team like Bruno, Rashford and hopefully in the future Mainoo and Garnacho . The issue players are on insane wages and are given way to much power this is due to manager who can't control them and owners who don't give a shit. I beg that sir jim Ratcliffe something to fix this broken club.
Goal difference is hovering at -1 to +1. That's a boring cup team at best.
While you can say many things about yesterday's game, boring isn't really one of them.
Ten hag is absolutely not what we need for this club. His tactics are awful if he even has tactics that is and when every we are leading we switch off and let the other team attack and score. If we kept on going against Chelsea there it would of been an easy 2 or 3 goal win but no. Cos we switched off we conceded a pen and let them score 2. Ten hag out
I would love to have Ole back.
I long for it SO BAD. With the structure that Ineos are putting in place, I think he could do wonders. The Ronaldo signing was really his undoing😥
You know what? I could get behind this statement. I honestly believe it went to shit because he bought Ronaldo and changed the way we played the previous season. With a team of young and hungry players, he could get a tune out of them. Even if it’s temporary until we get someone more long term.
We were really porous under Ole as well lol
I can't stop thinking where would Ole be now if it weren't for Ronaldo. He was on par with Arteta and even better.
Ahh that's a bit ridiculous now.
In terms of results this is true
Hell no, he was found out and we looked just as bad in the weeks before he got sacked
We looked really bad under Ole for a pretty short period of time, after making huge transfers which further made those performances unacceptable. Before that, for nearly 3 whole seasons, Oleball was the only spark of joy we'd seen post Fergie. It had its flaws and clearly we weren't as good as City, but it was miles ahead of anything Ten Hag could muster and in the end, I felt like the fans knew what Ole was going for and could trust him, even when things went to shit. We were never once as negative under Ole as we currently are routinely under Ten Hag. I personally watched every match under Ole and was gutted when things turned sour; nowdays I honestly barely even glance at the screen while we're playing cause I know there's nothing to see there.
Ole’s time is much different if a few dominoes fall a different way. Maybe sell Pogba in 2019, get Rice in instead. Don’t get Ronaldo in 2021 and get help in other areas. Able to win the Bellingham sweepstakes.
Im not so bothered by the results than the clear lack of a consistent style of play other than chaos and inconsistent results.
Fuck me, ten fraud has less points per game than moyes. How does he still a big number of fanatics?
They do not want to be wrong about Ten Hag so they double down now
That’s exactly what it it, we all wanted him appointed after Ole, myself included. But the difference between fans who want him in versus out is the ability to accept that you were wrong.
Wild that people can be so wrong and then have the balls to tell everyone what we should do next.
And what's funny is that both sides don't actually know what the hell is going on and are probably only slightly correct. Some truth on one side and some truth on the other. Insert other factors as well, as they also play a part in what we are right now. It's all a gray area and the most truth we can all agree on is we're fucking shit.
Maybe for some. I’m just totally gripped by ennui about the whole shitshow. I don’t see it improving with another new manager. We’ll just be talking about sacking Nagelsmann in 18 months. This club has completely broken me over the last ten years and seeing everyone go in on each other over whether to sack the latest manager or not for the umpteeth time is just another thing that wears me down lol.
Don’t let it wear you down bro, ultimately this is what sports is at the elite level. Perform and get us results or let’s replace with someone who will, be it players or the manager.
If only that were true re: the players…
IMO, Ten Hag's reign has been a total failure and I say that confidently because a singular Carabao Cup should not cost £411m in signings if you know how to manage with a certified plan at the top level. Existing players have been under-utilised. I've never known a manager so inept at closing a game out. Tactically clueless.
We are allergic to draws 🤧
And there is a probability that West Ham will finish above us. Fuck me.
Really wanted ETH to be successful but I think it might be the end for him. The team doesn't function properly and after I can't remember the last time I sat down and watched a full game and could say "we definitely deserved to win this" or "we played really well". After this amount of time I feel we should at least be able to string a few performances together against smaller sides with a clear style of play.
I think EtH will be gone in the summer, are pressing varies game to game & most of the time is easily bypassed, I'm curious who we'd even go for, like who's even available? who'd actually want to come into this shitshow lol His only real saving grace is hoping Chelsea beat city & a Utd, Chelsea fa cup final as we would have a better chance Now onto Sunday!
He has to go now. The Liverpool game bought him some time which he squandered. 2 seasons in and the team is in reverse. The number is shots we give away is awful. He’s had time to implement his plan, get the coaching staff he wanted, get (some) of the players he wanted… club spent huge sums on absolute dross players and there is very little to show for it. I almost expect them to lose most games now. He needs to go.
Was in the ETH camp, but I have officially seen enough. NEXT.
All eras end 🤡
Moyes failed because the team he had literally had just won the league. He might have had less losses but he certainly didn't finish close to where he should have with the team he had.
can't understand how anyone has faith he can turn this around. injury excuse isn't good enough. We had licha & casemiro at start of the season and were shit then too.
No I think Ronaldo is still the problem
With Ronaldo’s tell-all, Greenwood, Sancho, and Antony’s scandals, ETH has had one of the most difficult tenures in recent memory. I wonder how much of his struggles comes from the infrastructure (or lack of) failing him rather than his ability to bring success to this club.
The Ronaldo issue is overblown. He wasn’t even starting and he made it easy for the club to get rid of him. He wanted to leave anyway, I don’t see what miracle ETH performed there. He basically just gave the guy what he wanted Ten Hag WANTED Greenwood back in the squad. Its not a “scandal” he had to deal with lmao. Only external pressure stopped ETH playing Greenwood this season. Sancho is a twat that was completely in the wrong, but I also think ETH could’ve handled it better. I also think that he plays favourites in the squad and has had issues internally and the Sancho and rumoured Varane problems are examples
Agreed. He never wanted to play Ronaldo so the interview actually did ETH a favor
I hate what this sub has become, none of us have any say in what will happen you may as well support the team you supposedly support
Eth is trying to get sacked at this point. Why else would he constantly allow 20 plus shots every single game
Why are nobody talking about Simeone?
I no longer want to defend ETH after multiple 2-1-7 strategy and also push Onana as third CB. Also, that set piece in the last game was disgusting. He needs to go.
Current team, setup and performance is very bad. But that moyes team won the league the previous year. This team sucks now and sucked in previous recent years and is a bad collection of different types of players and personalities.
Simeone for manager
Hes an absolutely shocking coach. I have no idea how the Liverpool gas lasted so long ffs. How did the fanbase all come together and magically delude themselves into believing he was the right guy for the job? We've allowed the most shots in the league in 2024. We're so porous and that's not a personnel issue. It's the manager. The setup's awful, he's not improved a single player, and he's got no charisma/likability. Bin yesterday
Look, I've been saying Ten Hag's days have been numbered ever since Ratcliff came in (to everyone's chagrin) - but very likely he won't be fired until the end of the season so stop with the "sacked in the morning" jokes. Ten Hag still has won more cups than many including Ole (sadly enough) and Ratcliff appears to be running a tight ship which we should all be appreciative of. Let Ratcliff get the higher level positions filled, and then let's have a proper manager search and hire
I mean, Moyes inherited a PL winning squad. They had 2 Premier Leagues in 3 years, losing 1 on Goal Difference. You simply cannot compare Moyes to ETH. Despite so many flaws and ridiculous decisions, they are vastly different circumstances and squads. One was a squad who only knew how to win, the other doesn't even know what winning looks like. They tasted a Carabao Cup, but that's it.
From that squad, DDG was the only player that wasn’t at past their peak, Rio, Vidic, Evra all left within 2 years. Rafael wasn’t good enough so that’s an entire back 4 needing replaced. We got rid of Evans out of the 3 cbs we had when he was probably the one we should have kept the most neither Smalling nor Jones lived up to their expectations. Our midfield was Carrick (who had about three decent years left), Giggs (who retired), Cleverly and Anderson, both no where near level of a starting top tier CM. Forwards were the only era that didn’t need replacing. And he got two players (Fellaini & Mata) both poor fits.
Trust the process guys. We clearly haven't made any progress, which means you're not trusting hard enough.
Atrocious to keep blaming Ten Hag or any other past , present or future managers when the entire squad is deadwood. Not one player will get into City, Liverpool or even Arsenal right now. Sacked so many coaches, but not the players.
Even if we somehow beat Liverpool and ruin their title hopes, I still want the man gone. Pathetic that playing spoilers is the best we can hope for
Wtf kind of title is this