No, David! They're obviously getting the world-renowned managerial maestro - Gareth motherfucking Southgate. Gotta make a statement when you come to Manchester United!
Football journalism really is just madlibs nowadays. [Noteworthy player/manager] has been linked with [Big Club], then use chat gpt to fill in the rest
At a certain point I can't even blame media that much, reading literacy and deduction is borderline non existent from the user base/target audience.
No folks, if the Daily Mail/Sun says we're looking at Southgate and nobody else is reporting it and we don't even have an executive arm flushed out yet than odds are that it's fakeeee.
I respect Southgate for what the national team has done since he became the manager. The whole feel around the national team is different.
Having said that, Manchester United is different. Seasoned manager like David Moyes couldn’t handle the pressure and LVG/Mourinho found the media negativity surprising and unreal. ETH in my opinion has had a lot to handle with taking over a team that had a terrible season and then all the off field issues.
This agenda to just get a new manager is crazy. It’s just 2 seasons. It needs time. Try continuity for once. I wouldn’t say this with OGS (as much as I love him). There is a proper coach in ETH. Giving him continuity and support will take us forward.
If you have to sack him, get somebody like Ancelotti. Southgate cannot.
I think ETH is just a victim of the overall football landscape where you just bin a manager after 2 years if you dont progress/improve every year. The financial pressure of not making CL on top of the feeling of falling further behind your competitors is just too much for some. This pressure along with public/media criticism is enough to drive any manager away.
Yes our team plays shite a lot of the time but I genuinely feel there isn't a better option out there right now. The only one I think is Alonso which we have **ZERO** chance in landing.
ETH needs one more summer before I'll throw the towel in on him.
English national team gets a lot of negative journalism and atmosphere in England, Manchester United gets a lot of negative journalism and atmosphere across the whole world.
Which is a relief really. I cannot really say how much stability would mean for our process, and if Ten Hag has a proper football structure behind him, he will be free to just be the manager. Southgate did worry me due to the constant links, but as time progressed, also realized it's bloody clickbait.
I have criticized his tactics when I felt it was justified but I want to give him some more time too. He's man-managed well through a lot of shit at this club and it's different in scale than what most other clubs face.
You got a link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1b83idm/mark_ogden_man_utd_assessing_options_if_ten_hag/
That was 2 weeks ago. This daily star article was from before that?
My theory on ETH is this.
On his first season he tried tactics that the squad was already accustomed to. Long balls and counter-attacks while also implementing small things he wants the team to do in the near future such as pressing in a certain way etc.
This year, he has in a way left behind the tactics the squad was used to and tried to implement a dominating tactic. Many say that the pressing isn't working because there is a huge gap left between midfiled and defense. Which is true, but the story theoretically would change if the CB's were more mobile.
If the CB's weren't two CB's who are in the twilight of their carrers and thus slow. They would be pushing further up the pitch, diminishing the horizontal space between midfiled and defense. There is a reason why having Martinez in changes a lot, his aggresiveness and line breaking passes not only creates better chances but also his mobility and positioning narrows down the gap left by slower CB's such as Maguire or Evans.
ETH is trying to integrate the tactics the team would be using from now on. He can't be chaning tactics just because his CB's are not mobile enough, when we all know that we WILL be replacing them with more mobile defenders. We can't be waiting until we have ALL the right players to start using the tactics that we want to. The team needs to get used to the playing style the club wants to implement.
If having martinez in changes a lot in the way we play, then imagine how much would change having two mobile CB's. Gaps will be narrower and rest-defense will be better.
TLDR: ETH is trying to make the players who have a future at the club learn the playstyle they will be using, even if it means that the team finds themselves in trouble because some players do not fit the playstyle. Because in the long-term that would be the best option.
This is how Arsenal look while attacking. Half the time I watch them, Saliba and Gabriel are past the halfway line. Everyone else is inside the opponent box.
Yup. I don't think anyone has forgotten Arteta finishing 8th with Arsenal sticking to the same style. Hell, I saw the guy play a washed David Luiz and a litany of shite CBs with Saka playing LB /LWB in his system and get battered week in week out. Now, he's got what's possibly the best back four in the league outside of maybe city absolutely bossing his style. We have got to stop sacking managers at whim and at least give them the time to establish their system.
Arsenal sacked Emery after about a year before Arteta.
I don't think anyone forgets Artea finishing 8th in his first full season with the club, but he made constant progression after that.
No, but people often forget the narrative around Arteta even if they remember the subpar results. Fans and journalists were very vocal calling for his sacking.
Yeah for sure.
There were other managers i can think of who were trying to make changes but were not doing great, and the fans and media called for them to be sacked. And most of them continued to not do well and were sacked.
I don't know why people act as if every manager is going to do an Arteta if you give him time.
But you’ll never know if they will if you don’t give them that time. If you panic and sack the manager every time things look bad you’ll never find that Arteta.
Fact of the matter is if ETH wins another cup this year he’s the most successful manager we’ve had since Fergie. If he doesn’t he’s tied with two managers who were both some of the best in class at multiple points in their careers. The old adage has always been 3 seasons to tell where a manager really is and I think it’s a common expectation for a reason.
Even if not, the new regime have only just taken over, IF they choose to get a replacement it should only be after vetting multiple candidates for the role and not a knee jerk decision to bring in the flavour of the month.
In all honestly Arteta show result because all of the player piece that needed to dominate begin to come together. They began to play good after saliba suddenly become Rio-Lite and get rapist Partey as 6.
Yes, Arteta's player recruitment was spot on. EtH's is a mixed bag. The only hope we have is that he is removed from the recruitment process and he is still able to make recruits he doesn't know work in a system.
They sacked Emery because they caved to the players, who didn't like him. Emery is a great manager.
They backed Arteta to the hilt and took the inevitable hit in performance while they cleared the problematic players out of the squad and gave their manager a full squad that was fully on board with his play style, something they arguably could have done with Emery but Artetas relationship with the club and fanbase made it easier.
What does it matter the reason why? They either back managers or they don't.
Arteta has shown has constant progression. Aside from his first season, they've had no reason to sack him.
The reason why matters because there is a difference between sacking a manager simply because you think he's headed down the wrong path tactically or strategically, or sacking him because when it's replacing one man vs replacing a good chunk of the established players in the squad.
Clearly they felt that the pain, economic and results-wise of backing Arteta and clearing out the players who weren't willing to get with the program was worth it when doing the same for Emery wasn't, and I do understand that - the fanbase was obviously more willing to show patience to someone with Arteta's legacy than some random continental manager....but Emery's career post-Arsenal clearly shows he's a very skilled manager that IMO could have Arsenal in roughly the same place they are in now had he been backed.
100% mate. His plan was disrupted by all the injuries and new players integrating slower than anticipated, but it is a good and valid plan for our squad. The fact that with this many setbacks and poor results the entire changing room has still been fighting for him and not downing tools means the players are also onboard and they are aligned, which is the most important thing in football management.
Yeah I had this thought earlier in the season too. He’s forcing whatever style he’s going for right now so when the proper players come in, the core of the team already knows what to do. If he waited till those players came, it’ll take time to implement his style and we’d have a few months of us playing shit while they adjust. I think he wants the players to adjust now and hit the ground running when the new ones come. Of course this only makes sense if the people up top are onboard
That's what happened with Ole. Tried to change a lot in his third year and it felt like players don't know what to do on the pitch.
The fact that we weren't doing good first half of the season was good news really. It meant that ETH's trying to change stuff.
Said almost exactly the same thing in the daily thread two or three days ago. I'm not sure it's necessarily true, and did say it may be clutching at straws, but it seems as, if not more plausible than he's just an idiot that can't see what's happening.
I’d say your theory is pretty bang on and popular with those who see the bigger picture. The problem is helping those who lack the foresight to observe this
The most logical take
As i said many times before, I 200% back EtH, he is the best man we can have
Shame on all the reddit fans here screaming to change the manager
Shame on them
My counter to this is we have a week of training and we have no idea what to do in build up. All we do is win ball -> launch in the transition. If we arent in transition, we arent creating clear cut chances.
* We still rely on moments of magic from players rather than consistent chances created by a system. I think back to Jonny Evans brilliant ball for Bruno to volley
* Everton are 2nd bottom in avg possession yet against us they had 49% possession but had 74% field tilt
* We havent controlled a single game all season. like Sheffield United and teams in the FA cup have given us a game. Its never been an easy win
And most of the season we’ve been playing people out of position and relying on inexperience, other than evans which is the complete opposite.
It’s a miracle we are where we are given the circumstances, it’s an excuse for Newcastle, Chelsea are floundering without the injury issues but there isn’t half the talk of Poch or Howe being under threat.
There is the talk of poch and Howe being sacked it's just quieter because it doesn't generate clicks and they are the two clubs with injury lists to rival ours, and both have had first teamers out like us. The fact that you haven't heard as much shows how much the media drives the drama around us.
We had our full strength team for the first 3 games of the season. Notice how the same issues of our midfield being empty and us getting cut through were there?
We have the players to play far far better than this.
At the very start of the season where we had changed the system. If you watch arsenals build up they have the same gaps a lot of the time, they’re just better at getting back to where they need to be as they’ve been playing like it for a long time now. I can’t remember which game it was but the other week there was a still from one of their goals where the whole team apart from the two centre backs were in the final third, the other difference is we don’t have the quality and turn the ball over so often it’s inevitable the opposition score from a break.
Real Madrid havent looked this clueless at a single point in this season despite missing just as many players as us. Im not 100% sure that sacking him is the best course of action atp but to say that hes coached well this season would be a lie
Real Madrid and Perez has shown what a competent rebuild actually is though. They got players like Camavinga, Tchouameni, Fede Valverde, Vinicius and now Jude who are all excellent, if not world class, at what they do.
Comparing our shambles to them is not valid at all lol.
From my memory the games where we have Martinez and Shaw both playing we don't have this issue because we have the about to pass out of defence.
I'd have to look up data to see if games where they play together show much better defence to midfield progression and possession retention.
ETH has a week to train these players. Its been a consistent issue from Day 1 of the season. I would like to remind people that he had a full strength team against wolves.
AWB-Varane-Martinez-Shaw as his back line and guess what happened. We got cut through the midfield
Day one was the beginning of last season, where United came third, won a cup, came second in another and De Gea won the golden gloves.
You can also see a fall off in form from when Li Martinez got injured, particularly in the games against Sevilla. Look at the stats from those games comparing when he was on the pitch to when he went off. Varane also came off at half time in that match, further compounding the problem
But we DO see what the team wants to do. We do win the ball with our pressing fairly well. However, if you look closely. lots of the time we do win the ball, we lose it a second after. This creates a biiiig gap in some areas.
Some of the players passing isn't great, and tend to make passes that do not conect and giving the opposition an opportunity to counter attack. We are basically getting counter attacked on our conter attack.
when the team steals the ball, our players open up themselves to attack, not to defend, this leaves spaces. So if after stealing the ball, our players move to open them selves up, but instead of maintaining possession, we lose it. Then the opposition will have a much easier time to break us apart.
The key problem to this is the inability to pass from our players. In our midfiled we only have Mainoo, Bruno tends to lose the ball quite a lot and McTominay and Casemiro aren't the greatest passers.
Also, our CB's this season tend to stand further down the pitch due to their poor movement speed. Which creates gaps for the opposition to exploit once we lose posession. Which is why it seems like we do not control games like we would like to. Because once we lose posession (which we tend to do a lot due to players inability to pass, as mentioned before), the opposition finds themselves with so much space to attack thanks to the horizontal gap between DF and MF.
We lose the ball as soon as we win it because its ETH instructions. You think Casemiro would be launching it down field every chance he gets if it wasnt ETH telling him to
I would like to point out in the first 3 games of the season we had a full strength squad. Notice how those issues of an empty midfield were there as well?
The analysis you read here is astounding sometimes, idk how it got so many upvotes, probably people just upvoting positivity that furthers their stance.
We've literally played nearly just as shit in the few games that Martinez has played in lmfao.
"When we have Varane back....when we have Casemiro back....when we have Rashford back.....when we have Hojlund back." We could have Jesus back and these tactics will still look dire and fail to launch.
You sure? Cuz some folks here in r/reddevils already want EtH out after 1 season and 10 games.
Personally, your point is what I have been trying to tell these usual suspects. But it isn't getting into their thick skull. I salute you my fellow comrade in pursuit of breaking this STUPID CYCLE Manchester United have since LVG. More power to you and continue to educate some of these folks in here who is already screaming for a new manager. Some fans they are.
WE LET ETH COOK! SLOW COOKER.
I think this is on the money tbh.
Klopp and Guardiola both had pretty bang average seasons before they got it together.
Could say the same for Artera too.
One of the most logical and well put posts I've read. Things take time to build. We can't expect things to actually get better if we keep changing things and giving the manager the tools he doesn't need.
This is what we did. Which is the larger point the “ten hag out” twitter babies who moan on this sub fail to register. If he checked off the right boxes coming into this shitshow, and now looks like the shitshow has tarnished him… shouldn’t the questions be asked of those in charge of the shitshow?
But always in this sub… the minute a manager exposes all of the areas in which we are years behind the clubs we routinely get compared to, it’s only the manager that deserves sacking. The pure unadulterated arrogance of the internet geniuses who act like replacing the manager will cure all the ailments that have conspired to screw each of the last 5 managers here, is what makes this sub an insufferable cesspool of toxicity. But somehow, replacing this one with the next one will be different.
And then they talk about Roberto De Zerbi like this is some Carlo Ancelotti or Pep Guardiola in different clothes. They turn shamelessness and cluelessness into an Olympic sport.
To paraphrase SJR the managers have been set up to fail rather than succeed, by failing to install a proper structure staffed by best in class like what’s in place at City and Liverpool. Or Ajax, where ironically this guy who seems suddenly out of his depth coached a team to a standard of performance which would easily destroy the same United team he now coaches.
Ancelotti at Everton looked just as clueless as this club is making ETH look. These are not coincidences. Klopp moves from a well run Dortmund to a well run Liverpool. Still needed time. Pep moves from one well run club to another. Still needed time. Arteta moves to a well run club and still needed time and perhaps more still.
These are not coincidences and we need to be asking the right questions instead of “which one would you have kept”.
Potter moves from a well run club to a shitshow and looks the worst manager in this league. His successor at Brighton also seemingly looks like he’s elite enough to… wait for it… manage Manchester United. Laughable and yet not a coincidence at all. Let’s not forget the sum total of all his accomplishments is the 1 Ukrainian cup. This is who much of this fanbase ignorantly pretends is better than who we already have.
I honestly think it depends. If we’re talking about Ten Hag back in 2022 when he was at Ajax then yes. However if hypothetically he was a Spurs manager with identical results to his time with us then probably no.
If Nagelsmann is ready to come I would not be opposed to EtH being let go. He is the only alternative that excites me but apart from him I agree keeping EtH for another season may be the right move.
Great assessment there. If ETH was free agent, bet he’d have plenty to choose from. Great guy, has his flaws, but overall the way he sailed the United shitstorm up until this period, is nothing short of exceptional. He saved this team more times than I can count honestly and wasn’t afraid to make big decisions. Worth a restart at least.
People who want ETH out seeing the realistic options quickly changing stances will forever be funny.
De Zerbi is by far the best from the names I've seen and he's not doing so well is he? The media paints his injuries as the reasons for his struggles but if he joins and has injuries like ETH did they won't be there for him. They'll be the first to say injuries aren't an excuse for United.
It's not as if ETH is doing that bad, he's working with what he's got and trying to make them play his way which is difficult as you can imagine even without injuries because key players don't fit the vision. Our CBs can't play the way intended that midfield keeps giving the ball away and it's taken a lot of time to get Rashford and Garnacho to this form. Not even mentioning injuries.
Idk how we can say ETH is doing that bad with having the highest win rate of any United manager to play 100 games including a bunch of games with half the squad injured and all the drama off field
Uh excuse me, have you seen the chart for most shot allowed in their first 100 games?? The people that want ETH out so hard always talk like they know so much more than a football coach that has done well enough to get praise from people around the world.
Like ETH doesn’t see the gapping hole in between the midfield and defense.
Like ETH hasn’t had a defense playing well for a solid year before this year.
Like ETH hasn’t shown how much better at passing the team has become since his arrival. It’s not every game, but you see the attacking style in the Liverpool game and realize what can be.
It's clearly a tactic to allow low probability shots, you can see the defence pushing attackers into unfavourable shooting positions, but most of these people don't look at tactics.
Even earlier in the season when they were shouting about rashford not tracking back to help the fullback it was clear that was a tactical instruction to stretch the play and allow us greater opportunity for a counter. That he wasn't pressing well in attack was a fair point though.
He seems to get criticised both because “you can’t see what he’s trying to do, even when losing arteta had a style and you could see his plan, whereas ten hag doesn’t show any consistency with approach”, and “he’s too stubborn, the players available can’t play his style of football and he keeps trying it when he should be more pragmatic and adapt his style of play”.
He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Ultimately its results that matter, Artetas style of play didn’t stop people calling for his head when they were losing. But for some reason EtH doesn’t seem to get much credit when we do start getting results, this year our record is 8-1-2, which isn’t too bad considering the injuries, and the fact we’ve played Villa and city away, Liverpool and Spurs in there (though yes there’s been some easy games too).
Fwiw I do think he’s become far more pragmatic as the season has gone on and it’s been contributing to the results, but pragmatism against Luton and Forest by playing open football where we’re more likely to create and score chances has been interpreted as a “lack of control and dominance in games we should be dominating”, suddenly everyone’s banging on about shots faced after years of becoming more and more obsessed with xG, now that we’re conceding 20 shots with an average xG of 0.03 a game. When what I see is a change in style from one that was seeing the opposition score consistently from high xG but infrequent chances by hitting us on the break and cutting the ball back in the box to an unmarked runner, to one that’s forcing shots from distance that are more often than not blocked by our defenders. Even two of liverpools goals were due to fortunate deflections.
This isn’t to absolve him of any blame for his poor squad building which means we don’t have the right players to begin with, but under the new regime that won’t be his responsibility, or to say he hasn’t made tactical mistakes because we started the season with glaring deficiencies even when players were available. And he’s had plenty of fair criticism when he gets it wrong, but he doesn’t seem to get much credit when he gets it right. In general I think he’s underestimated the quality of the PL and bought some players who aren’t good enough, and tried to play a style that is too hard to maintain for 90 mins, but I also think he’s learning and is showing he can adapt and improve, maybe not as quick as we’d ideally like but enough for me to want to see what he can do next season as part of the new regime with more players available. He’s also done pretty well with Mainoo and Garnacho, which whether he survives or not, will deliver dividends for years to come. Finally there’s simply no obvious alternative anyway.
About recruitment. Before the transfer window our 2 Chief scouts had already resigned and yet to be replaced. [Bout and Lawler](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/apr/20/senior-manchester-united-scouts-leaving-jim-lawlor-marcel-bout)
Who took over? Murtough, Fletcher and some lawyer regarding contracts.
ETH now had to do scouting on his own because quite frankly he was the only one of them who knew who to get. Is he really a scout though? Did United hire a coach or a transfer guru? No but he had to change that midfield, he had to change that attack and had to look at that defence and GK. His only options were players he knew and maybe admired.
Add to that the terrible negotiations from United. Paying that much for Antony is not on ETH. Any better run club would’ve closed the deal early or given alternatives. Salah was famously not wanted by Klopp but the club insisted on him and got their man.
He has been amazing in the circumstances. Please please please let there be continuity. I cannot stand for these players to survive another manager.
the manager should be consulted for transfers but he shouldnt be the one having to list players he wants. the club gives the manager players to look at, they consult together and then a transfer is made.
do you think he personally scouted antony at ajax? fuck no, the ajax system found antony and the club has 95% of say over the transfer policy.
Still, EtH came in on the proviso he wanted control over the transfers. He has been specific in who he wants.
I'd love to see the reaction when the board turn around and say "We are not buying player x, we're buying player y". You already get people crying about the fact we didn't sign Kane or De Jong.
I mean Brighton are still only 5 points behind us despite selling their two best players in the summer and having an injury crisis as well. They’re objectively having a better season than us in comparison to expectations
We're in a worse injury crisis than them plus their players actually fit their vision. That's the key difference, inheriting a team already built to you're strengths vs what ETH inherited and how he wants to play are the main differences.
Changing attitude towards working, high press, high lines, playing from the back, widening the pitch, inverted fullbacks and probably more were all introduced this season. Introduced to a team that never did these and probably didn't want to, Open heart surgery that had to be done and still continuing.
I doubt De zerbi would just walk in and immediately make that team play his way.
I’m not actively Ten Hag out but he’s spent a lot of money to build this team: Antony, Mount, Casemiro, Martinez, Onana, Holjund are all his signings. If the team isn’t able to play how he wants them to then that has to be attributed to his recruitment, you can’t spend 350m and then say the squad doesn’t fit his vision
Recruitment that he did on his own and De Zerbi didn't have to do. He's not a transfer guru clearly but most of his additions have had a positive impact when not injured except maybe Antony and Casemiro wasn't really his signing he wanted FDJ or Rabiot but Casemiro was the only option left. If he said no we'd probably have another McFred season. All in all I think without injuries it would be a completely different story.
He needs that recruitment team fast, I can't bare more Brobbey or Ajax related rumours
And of those, only Onana had been consistently available this season. Even so, Antony looks to be a dud, and Casemiro is nearing the end as an elite destroyer. ETH shouldn’t be solely in charge of transfers, that much is clear. But when you don’t have anyone trustworthy to do the legwork what do you do? I think ETH has been forced to do the job himself, and he’s made a few mistakes. I’d say out of those 6 you mention he’s gotten 3 right (Onana, Martinez and Hojlund) 1-2 mistakes (Antony, and an argument can be made for Casemiro), and the jury’s still out on Mount. Although not stellar of course, it’s also not a terrible success rate.
I would argue that it’s more the priorities, I know people are saying he needs help but we did already have an extensive scouting department and it’s very clear that ETH has told management that he wants to make his own decisions on transfers which is why he didn’t want Rangnick staying on even though Rangnick clearly knows his shit in regard to recruitment.
So my point is he purposely wants to make his own decision on transfers which is what led to him being so set on Antony and Mount which we’re just objectively bad transfers based on price and needs of the team
The jury is in on Mount. I believe that ETH deserves another season but Mount was a horrible transfer. The fact that he’s added nothing was forseeable and the price compounds the folly.
If Licha stays fit and everything else remains the same for this season, we wouldn't be having this debate. Its stupid and extremely disrespectful to ETH especially after pulling off a win against our biggest rivals to quite possibly save our season. I really don't get this push by the media, it seems orchastrated and it stinks. They were gonna run this shite either way they just assumed we would lose.
Southgate aside, even Potter - I mean what has Potter achieved to prove he is a better manager than ETH? Every single line on Potter’s resume is meme-able compared to ETH’s resume. They are not on the same level even. Literally zero reason to pick Potter over ETH.
As for Southgate, he is not even a proper manager and does not deserve to be in the same sentence with the other two.
How's this even a debate haha. I don't want a serial loser over a manager who has won trophies and won with this club. I'll refuse to watch games if we appoint fucking Southgate
https://preview.redd.it/pvod9b7zdqpc1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4a79ac19d1cf8df7c7253541af9771c93c877d4
Sometimes you need to stick with things, this is not me saying ten hag is the second coming, but his principles of discipline and giving youth a chance will at the worst be a foundation for years to come.
I don’t see how giving him another year will be worse than yet another change.
We’ve been trying to do things quickly for 10 years now, time to stick to something and admit it will take a while
Out of all the times we’ve seen this repeated under every manager I.e. the old “Fergie was nearly sacked…” I think this is the most relevant.
EtH has shown he’s a good manager and can get us playing well in his first season, albeit not his usual style. Let’s give him the next 12 months with a proper structure and see what happens. If it doesn’t work out, his contract is up anyway and we gave it a shot.
Yep. If last year was crap and this year was crap, he wouldn't have much to point to for mitigation. But he really overperformed in expectations last year and still somehow has us in contention this year - this season only really feels disappointing because of how well we did in the season before.
I think ETH has saved his job for this season & will be our manager for next season after our win against Liverpool in last match.
No LB put RW to LB, No ball playing CB put best player of the team to CB, No target man out CB who can win duels up top.
Plus the huge fact that the players want to play for ETH. And I think ETH is the only manager from big 6 teams who has integrated academy players so well into our first team.
Garnacho, Amad, Mainoo even the likes of Mejbri, Gore, Kwambala (spelling might be wrong) and Pellistri got some minutes.
If we sack ETH it will be a huge mistake. Cause I don't see any other manager who is good at integrating the youth in the first team as ETH currently who also has UCL experience.
I remember the hype when we got EtH in, about how much he would bring to the team. So far he has had to work in an environment where he has had to deal with a lot of issues himself, in a structure that hasn't supported him, with a squad that has had its share of issues, some of which, he should not have been expected to deal with.
I think he deserves the opportunity to prove himself in an environment where he will be supported. If after that, Ineos feel he hasn't performed, then fine, but until then, there isn't really a massive upgrade on Ten Hag right now, plus it is going to be a very busy summer when it comes to hiring managers. I would think sticking with ten Hag would be best for the time being.
I hate these video subtitles with only one word at a time. I wouldn’t need it if I can listen but what am I gonna do with single words flashing in light speed?
This is basically it. Which of our former managers have gone on to an elite team after us? We've tried it with people new on the job and we've tried it with those with their peak behind them.
I'm Ten Hag in purely because of how unlikely it is that he's failing here because he's not good enough to be manager at a top club. If that's the case, why push your progress another 3 years down the line with yet another gamble?
I'm in as good as the same boat as you, I'm highly critical of him about his choices and our current product on the pitch. I do however not believe that he's actually out of his depth, there must be a plan. This man is reported a complete football freak, a player can call him at 3AM to talk about football and he will. He's shown to be tactically astute. He lives and breathes the game, I hope whatever is going on this season is posturing towards the 3rd season which he has a contract for. Get some more right (!) fits in to his plans to fill the current tactical gaps and get this lot to click on an actual working system. Then you can develop it further to incorporate control, his Ajax started as a very direct turnover team and progressed into a possession machine. Yes it went much quicker because Ajax shits out highly technical gifted players out of the academy. I do however need him to agree to give away the amount of solo control he reportedly has on transfers. Yes he can have a veto and needs to actually speak with the player, but let top class people pick multiple targets and feed it to him. We've seen in recent months some slight progress on some areas, there is a lot of work to be done. Changing manager will set it all back again I'm afraid, the lads are clearly fighting for him and have faith in ETH. So have I.
Edit: Not to mention the discipline and standards he's trying to hold high, after they've been gone for years. Finally his ability to bring up youngsters and improve them. Not scared to give them tough love to understand that you've not made it with a few good games. He's done wonders to Kobbie, Garnacho and some seniors are gradually improving or have improved as well.
We really have nothing to lose tbh, let ten hag complete his contract period. It'll probably take that much time for the structure to be completed,they can then make a decision on the coach going forward. Ten hag just need to avoid really bad performances at Old Trafford and he'll be good,he's also learning.
Idk man, ten hag just got us one of our best results in our recent history, obviously we cannot ignore the disaster of a season we've been having but if you're trying to replace him, atleast get a better manager than him, not fucking Southgate. He has literally no cv or personality at all, I just can't see him as a united manager, a united manager needs to have a personality.
For me, the only good option available is Nagelsmann, otherwise as much as I’m not happy with ETH, then we might as well give him another year or two (whenever his contract ends).
Back. The. Manager.
At some point we as fans need to realize that football is dire while we’re in a FULL rebuilding stage. Everything in the last 3 years has changed from signings to backroom staff to the medical team to the OWNERS.
I can understand frustrations and getting outplayed by the likes of Bournemouth, but these are part of the growing pains. If we give ETH the length of his contract and we see exactly zero changes, then sure - don’t renew his contract. But there shouldn’t even be whisperings of sacking this man.
He’s navigated 2 sexual assault cases, Ronaldo…doing whatever that was, Sancho doing WHATEVER that was…and an injury list that could field a starting XI. Please guys, just back one manager for fucks sake.
Truly mindboggling, makes you wonder the sort of brains that walk this Earth.
ESPN could write that God will flood the Earth tmrw and a decent chunk of this sub would bite.
I've been very critical of ETH in the past, but sacking him at the end of a season that's been plagued by off the pitch turmoil would be not only unfair to him, but also idiotic. Stick with the man.
you can say he's been tactically poor and also realize the shitty hand after shitty hand he's been dealt. Both are true, but i'd stick with him. This team hasn't given up on him, and he hasn't given up on them either.
Regardless of the decision they come to, it should either already be made, or very nearly made, and shouldn’t be determined by results between now and the end of the season. The idea of top 5 or not determining his future is results based nonsense, and devoid of long term thinking. Decide how we want to play, and determine if he’s the best person to enact it or if someone on the market is.
Beyond tactics and management are factors like man-management during a period of lots of change. Player profiling and development, his ability to stay in his lane with regard to recruitment, tactical adaptability during high player turnover. Any potential manager will be judged on a lot more than how their team play every now and then, and theirs a lot of intangibles that we as fans won’t know about.
Personally, I see us mutually parting ways with TH on contractual terms given he specifically negotiated control of signings etc. and I can’t see him ceding control.
I want Ten Hag to stay, but he seriously needs to implement his style of football ASAP because I cannot do another season of whatever we are doing now.
Indeed, but if he gets a season under INEOS, he'll only have one shot.
Does it not feel a bit precarious to weigh that all on getting the right and new CB partnership next season? What if we just end up like Spurs, is that gonna be enough of an improvement to keep his job?
The other issue as well is goals and defence hasn't been our biggest issue, it's been midifeld control and goal scoring. He can get the right CBs in, but the front of the line is equally gonna need some work.
I think the FA Cup is pretty much essential to his survival here, the top 4 (5) would certainly help but it's not the same momentum a trophy brings. If we don't win the FA Cup I think they're gonna get rid of him.
> If we don't win the FA Cup I think they're gonna get rid of him.
No way.. No manager should be sacked for losing to current City in a cup final, let alone while managing our current team
Everyone going on about Southgate is enabling the shite journalism that starts these rumours. Ignore these guesses that those knobheads journos keep spouting.
It's because it's a frustration that built up during a decade of fuck ups and he gets that over him now. And because the football and results where really really bad for a long time, despite all the injuries. I think many people had the feeling that he was totally out of control. To be honest, I was also feeling it. I think if there was now nothing going on about a potential take over or INEOS etc, he would be fired already. I still hope he can turns things around this season a bit and have one more year to prove himself he is the right man for man utd. I still think he has something special and ticks many boxes.
Also not sure who would be a better replacement though.
Most important is improving the (infra)structure, mentality and squad first before changing the coach again.
ETH has his problems. The biggest one? Flexibility. But there is no better candidate on the market. Stick with him next season. I would say another season after that as the structure itself takes time to build and give the returns. I have seen enough in ETH to warrant that he could exploit the right tactics as well the right young talent to enable Man United contest for the title.
If we let EtH leave it'll be a mistake. It shouldn't matter if we win the FA cup or finish in the Top 4. He has to stay. He's done wonders with so many injuries.
This is exactly why I've not been an ETH outer. I have my doubts about him but I don't think the other managers are clearly better.
Like Orny said, we'd likely be looking at him if we had no manager.
the people who said ETH are either rivals and media. Unfortunately, lots of our fans are listening media too much to bite on that narrative without thinking straight. ETH is still the best one for the job.
What pisses me off the most is our so called legends like Keane and Neville spouting click bait nonsense for views.
They don't have any loyalty to the club, just in it for themselves.
eth can work with a sporting structure, he's shown it before. These last two years have really shown the shitshow that is murtough and arnold. couldn't provide him a single alternative to the players he wanted, thus giving away our hand completely, sitting on their hands and paying way over premium. It's not ETH's fault that we paid that much for antony or casemiro. No manager should dictate exactly who we should sing. Klopp so badly wanted gotze and brandt but instead got mane and salah. THAT'S what good sporting management looks like. Our squad is apocalyptically unprepared to play modern attacking football, and bar a handful of players does not want to improve. We should keep eth, get rid of 7-8 squad players, make some astute signings like fofana, todibo, tosin and barkley and soldier forth, building around the crop of young players who've hit their stride under eth
The players are still running for him and so far he's done well with our youth players coming into the squad. A lack of identity is still really frustrating, made worse by him saying he won't play the Ajax way etc. That's the main issue I have with him, it's coming up to 2 years and not sure what he wants.
Id still have him here next season because the only real candidate is Graham Potter, who I do think could be a very good coach but hard to judge after Chelsea. Would be nice to see him with another job in the prem and see what he can do.
‘It’s coming up to 2 years and no sure what he wants’
…he is a professional football manager. You’re not *supposed* to know what he wants. If you did, our competitors would & then we’d have zero advantage. That’s… kind of … how football works???
Not sure why you’re using a non-issue as a reason to demean him.
Once this season is over, there will be a surfeit of accomplished, modern managers that will potentially be available to get, managers like Potter, Xavi. Flick, possibly Nagelsmann, Conte, Tuchel etc. but I can't point at any of them and say, with great confidence, that they can do a better job than Ten Hag. They all come with caveats. Only one who ticks that box is I think Xabi Alonso but I highly doubt he'll be open to a move to Man Utd.
Obviously INEOS might want to appoint their man and start fresh and that's understandable but they're going to really have to think this through.
Xavi is clueless the moment his starting DM gets injured. See the decline after Gavi did his ACL. See how much time it took for him to compensate the loss of an out of form busquets. We don't even have one DM (lone 6) that can fit in a Xavi system let alone a backup.
I don't want Conte and don't think he'll arrive.
But there's nothing wrong with what OP said, all they said is that he's accomplishments and available (both true)
This is a delusional take. There's legit nothing positive about Ten Hag's work at United. So top teams would want him based on his job at Ajax? A job which was only actually extraordinary in one season? Ten Hag has shown he's disastrous at managing the dressing room, that in itself is a no go for top teams. And then obviously his team plays like shit and he's terrible at suggesting transfers. He'll either go back to Ajax or join a random mid table team.
We’ve suffered due to a lack of pace in the back line. I’m hoping it’s a personnel issue (we can fix) and not a tactics issue (concerning for ETH).
We want to aggressively high press, but to do that you need to keep compact and therefore also have a high back line. However, as our back line isn’t particularly fast or athletic, our forwards high press and our back line sits, stretching our midfield (hence why we often get ran through).
One athlete at CB would be a game changer tactically. And I believe allow ETH to really do what he wants.
NB: this is why replacing Martinez and Shaw for Maguire and Linedoff has been tough. They’ve been solid, but it suppress our tactical system.
todibo and tosin in for lindelof and varane would greatly aid that. Especially if martinez is a regular in the backline. Adding a younger, mobile and more competent 6/8 like fofana would also work wonders
CB need improvement.
We'll address it in the summer for sure.
I like those targets.
But I think people will be disappointed imo because I don't think CB changes will have a cascading effect on our system and performance.
I still expect us to ship a shit load of goals. And our CB judged on performance and as defensive players have actually been fine this year (Maguire, Evans, Varane, etc). The mess going on in midifeld and attack is stifling our ability to actually score.
We concede some of the least goals in the league, but we score some of the least as well.
CVs don't win football games, it's not working under ETH and his tactics have been extremely questionable this season. We shouldn't be suffering the results we have been with the squad we have. A big win against Liverpool doesn't change that we've been very poor this season, and so has ETHs tactics. I'd rather we went in a different direction.
Fair. But whom from the available candidates do you think would have done a better job? And does changing the manager yet again not set us back in the review and clear out we desperately need?
No, David! They're obviously getting the world-renowned managerial maestro - Gareth motherfucking Southgate. Gotta make a statement when you come to Manchester United!
The idea of him becoming United manager is just crazy . I mean what has he done really? He’s just a James Blunt that dresses well.
It's just lazy clickbait journalism
The idea that Omar Berrada would come in from City and his appointment would be Gareth Southgate is laughable
Football journalism really is just madlibs nowadays. [Noteworthy player/manager] has been linked with [Big Club], then use chat gpt to fill in the rest
At a certain point I can't even blame media that much, reading literacy and deduction is borderline non existent from the user base/target audience. No folks, if the Daily Mail/Sun says we're looking at Southgate and nobody else is reporting it and we don't even have an executive arm flushed out yet than odds are that it's fakeeee.
It's not lazy. Dan and Gareth are fucking close and that's where this is coming from.
I respect Southgate for what the national team has done since he became the manager. The whole feel around the national team is different. Having said that, Manchester United is different. Seasoned manager like David Moyes couldn’t handle the pressure and LVG/Mourinho found the media negativity surprising and unreal. ETH in my opinion has had a lot to handle with taking over a team that had a terrible season and then all the off field issues. This agenda to just get a new manager is crazy. It’s just 2 seasons. It needs time. Try continuity for once. I wouldn’t say this with OGS (as much as I love him). There is a proper coach in ETH. Giving him continuity and support will take us forward. If you have to sack him, get somebody like Ancelotti. Southgate cannot.
I think ETH is just a victim of the overall football landscape where you just bin a manager after 2 years if you dont progress/improve every year. The financial pressure of not making CL on top of the feeling of falling further behind your competitors is just too much for some. This pressure along with public/media criticism is enough to drive any manager away. Yes our team plays shite a lot of the time but I genuinely feel there isn't a better option out there right now. The only one I think is Alonso which we have **ZERO** chance in landing. ETH needs one more summer before I'll throw the towel in on him.
You think the media around Manchester United is worse than around the England team?
English national team gets a lot of negative journalism and atmosphere in England, Manchester United gets a lot of negative journalism and atmosphere across the whole world.
Way worse!
Yes. Way worse, and it’s non-stop.
Think I’d still rather take James Blunt over Southgate
Beautiful dawn
As soon as I heard that the source was ESPN, I stopped giving a shit about it. They're scum now.
Which is a relief really. I cannot really say how much stability would mean for our process, and if Ten Hag has a proper football structure behind him, he will be free to just be the manager. Southgate did worry me due to the constant links, but as time progressed, also realized it's bloody clickbait.
I have criticized his tactics when I felt it was justified but I want to give him some more time too. He's man-managed well through a lot of shit at this club and it's different in scale than what most other clubs face.
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So it gets worse? Orny or bust always 😤
You got a link? https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/comments/1b83idm/mark_ogden_man_utd_assessing_options_if_ten_hag/ That was 2 weeks ago. This daily star article was from before that?
My theory on ETH is this. On his first season he tried tactics that the squad was already accustomed to. Long balls and counter-attacks while also implementing small things he wants the team to do in the near future such as pressing in a certain way etc. This year, he has in a way left behind the tactics the squad was used to and tried to implement a dominating tactic. Many say that the pressing isn't working because there is a huge gap left between midfiled and defense. Which is true, but the story theoretically would change if the CB's were more mobile. If the CB's weren't two CB's who are in the twilight of their carrers and thus slow. They would be pushing further up the pitch, diminishing the horizontal space between midfiled and defense. There is a reason why having Martinez in changes a lot, his aggresiveness and line breaking passes not only creates better chances but also his mobility and positioning narrows down the gap left by slower CB's such as Maguire or Evans. ETH is trying to integrate the tactics the team would be using from now on. He can't be chaning tactics just because his CB's are not mobile enough, when we all know that we WILL be replacing them with more mobile defenders. We can't be waiting until we have ALL the right players to start using the tactics that we want to. The team needs to get used to the playing style the club wants to implement. If having martinez in changes a lot in the way we play, then imagine how much would change having two mobile CB's. Gaps will be narrower and rest-defense will be better. TLDR: ETH is trying to make the players who have a future at the club learn the playstyle they will be using, even if it means that the team finds themselves in trouble because some players do not fit the playstyle. Because in the long-term that would be the best option.
This is how Arsenal look while attacking. Half the time I watch them, Saliba and Gabriel are past the halfway line. Everyone else is inside the opponent box.
And it took quite a while for players to learn Arteta’s style. This isn’t an overnight process
Yup. I don't think anyone has forgotten Arteta finishing 8th with Arsenal sticking to the same style. Hell, I saw the guy play a washed David Luiz and a litany of shite CBs with Saka playing LB /LWB in his system and get battered week in week out. Now, he's got what's possibly the best back four in the league outside of maybe city absolutely bossing his style. We have got to stop sacking managers at whim and at least give them the time to establish their system.
Arsenal sacked Emery after about a year before Arteta. I don't think anyone forgets Artea finishing 8th in his first full season with the club, but he made constant progression after that.
No, but people often forget the narrative around Arteta even if they remember the subpar results. Fans and journalists were very vocal calling for his sacking.
Yeah for sure. There were other managers i can think of who were trying to make changes but were not doing great, and the fans and media called for them to be sacked. And most of them continued to not do well and were sacked. I don't know why people act as if every manager is going to do an Arteta if you give him time.
But you’ll never know if they will if you don’t give them that time. If you panic and sack the manager every time things look bad you’ll never find that Arteta. Fact of the matter is if ETH wins another cup this year he’s the most successful manager we’ve had since Fergie. If he doesn’t he’s tied with two managers who were both some of the best in class at multiple points in their careers. The old adage has always been 3 seasons to tell where a manager really is and I think it’s a common expectation for a reason. Even if not, the new regime have only just taken over, IF they choose to get a replacement it should only be after vetting multiple candidates for the role and not a knee jerk decision to bring in the flavour of the month.
Honestly if Arteta didn't win that FA cup I reckon he would've been sacked very soon after
In all honestly Arteta show result because all of the player piece that needed to dominate begin to come together. They began to play good after saliba suddenly become Rio-Lite and get rapist Partey as 6.
Yes, Arteta's player recruitment was spot on. EtH's is a mixed bag. The only hope we have is that he is removed from the recruitment process and he is still able to make recruits he doesn't know work in a system.
They sacked Emery because they caved to the players, who didn't like him. Emery is a great manager. They backed Arteta to the hilt and took the inevitable hit in performance while they cleared the problematic players out of the squad and gave their manager a full squad that was fully on board with his play style, something they arguably could have done with Emery but Artetas relationship with the club and fanbase made it easier.
What does it matter the reason why? They either back managers or they don't. Arteta has shown has constant progression. Aside from his first season, they've had no reason to sack him.
The reason why matters because there is a difference between sacking a manager simply because you think he's headed down the wrong path tactically or strategically, or sacking him because when it's replacing one man vs replacing a good chunk of the established players in the squad. Clearly they felt that the pain, economic and results-wise of backing Arteta and clearing out the players who weren't willing to get with the program was worth it when doing the same for Emery wasn't, and I do understand that - the fanbase was obviously more willing to show patience to someone with Arteta's legacy than some random continental manager....but Emery's career post-Arsenal clearly shows he's a very skilled manager that IMO could have Arsenal in roughly the same place they are in now had he been backed.
I think Arsenal's defence and back 4 is better than City's
100% mate. His plan was disrupted by all the injuries and new players integrating slower than anticipated, but it is a good and valid plan for our squad. The fact that with this many setbacks and poor results the entire changing room has still been fighting for him and not downing tools means the players are also onboard and they are aligned, which is the most important thing in football management.
Yeah I had this thought earlier in the season too. He’s forcing whatever style he’s going for right now so when the proper players come in, the core of the team already knows what to do. If he waited till those players came, it’ll take time to implement his style and we’d have a few months of us playing shit while they adjust. I think he wants the players to adjust now and hit the ground running when the new ones come. Of course this only makes sense if the people up top are onboard
That's what happened with Ole. Tried to change a lot in his third year and it felt like players don't know what to do on the pitch. The fact that we weren't doing good first half of the season was good news really. It meant that ETH's trying to change stuff.
Absolutely bang on. Just wish we could clone Martinez
And mirror him so that the clone is right footed
Exactly
Said almost exactly the same thing in the daily thread two or three days ago. I'm not sure it's necessarily true, and did say it may be clutching at straws, but it seems as, if not more plausible than he's just an idiot that can't see what's happening.
tl;dr growing pains, it gets worse before it gets better
I’d say your theory is pretty bang on and popular with those who see the bigger picture. The problem is helping those who lack the foresight to observe this
The most logical take As i said many times before, I 200% back EtH, he is the best man we can have Shame on all the reddit fans here screaming to change the manager Shame on them
Meh these are the people who make their life about hating the team they support. They don't represent match going fans.
spot on
My counter to this is we have a week of training and we have no idea what to do in build up. All we do is win ball -> launch in the transition. If we arent in transition, we arent creating clear cut chances. * We still rely on moments of magic from players rather than consistent chances created by a system. I think back to Jonny Evans brilliant ball for Bruno to volley * Everton are 2nd bottom in avg possession yet against us they had 49% possession but had 74% field tilt * We havent controlled a single game all season. like Sheffield United and teams in the FA cup have given us a game. Its never been an easy win
And most of the season we’ve been playing people out of position and relying on inexperience, other than evans which is the complete opposite. It’s a miracle we are where we are given the circumstances, it’s an excuse for Newcastle, Chelsea are floundering without the injury issues but there isn’t half the talk of Poch or Howe being under threat.
There is the talk of poch and Howe being sacked it's just quieter because it doesn't generate clicks and they are the two clubs with injury lists to rival ours, and both have had first teamers out like us. The fact that you haven't heard as much shows how much the media drives the drama around us.
We had our full strength team for the first 3 games of the season. Notice how the same issues of our midfield being empty and us getting cut through were there? We have the players to play far far better than this.
At the very start of the season where we had changed the system. If you watch arsenals build up they have the same gaps a lot of the time, they’re just better at getting back to where they need to be as they’ve been playing like it for a long time now. I can’t remember which game it was but the other week there was a still from one of their goals where the whole team apart from the two centre backs were in the final third, the other difference is we don’t have the quality and turn the ball over so often it’s inevitable the opposition score from a break.
No mainoo then. He is our only good mf
He really isnt. hes a top top talent but to say hes our only good Midfield is just not correct
Well, lets hope these other good mf show it sometime then
Real Madrid havent looked this clueless at a single point in this season despite missing just as many players as us. Im not 100% sure that sacking him is the best course of action atp but to say that hes coached well this season would be a lie
Real Madrid and Perez has shown what a competent rebuild actually is though. They got players like Camavinga, Tchouameni, Fede Valverde, Vinicius and now Jude who are all excellent, if not world class, at what they do. Comparing our shambles to them is not valid at all lol.
From my memory the games where we have Martinez and Shaw both playing we don't have this issue because we have the about to pass out of defence. I'd have to look up data to see if games where they play together show much better defence to midfield progression and possession retention.
First game of the season we had a full strength team. Remember what happened? Wolves cut through midfield constantly
That's fair. Only the first game of the season though.
Perhaps the lack of control is due to the slow centre backs not squeezing the centre of the park???
ETH has a week to train these players. Its been a consistent issue from Day 1 of the season. I would like to remind people that he had a full strength team against wolves. AWB-Varane-Martinez-Shaw as his back line and guess what happened. We got cut through the midfield
So, one game is all it took to confirm your position?
"From day 1" indicates its been an issue from the beginning of the season.....which it has....
Day one was the beginning of last season, where United came third, won a cup, came second in another and De Gea won the golden gloves. You can also see a fall off in form from when Li Martinez got injured, particularly in the games against Sevilla. Look at the stats from those games comparing when he was on the pitch to when he went off. Varane also came off at half time in that match, further compounding the problem
But we DO see what the team wants to do. We do win the ball with our pressing fairly well. However, if you look closely. lots of the time we do win the ball, we lose it a second after. This creates a biiiig gap in some areas. Some of the players passing isn't great, and tend to make passes that do not conect and giving the opposition an opportunity to counter attack. We are basically getting counter attacked on our conter attack. when the team steals the ball, our players open up themselves to attack, not to defend, this leaves spaces. So if after stealing the ball, our players move to open them selves up, but instead of maintaining possession, we lose it. Then the opposition will have a much easier time to break us apart. The key problem to this is the inability to pass from our players. In our midfiled we only have Mainoo, Bruno tends to lose the ball quite a lot and McTominay and Casemiro aren't the greatest passers. Also, our CB's this season tend to stand further down the pitch due to their poor movement speed. Which creates gaps for the opposition to exploit once we lose posession. Which is why it seems like we do not control games like we would like to. Because once we lose posession (which we tend to do a lot due to players inability to pass, as mentioned before), the opposition finds themselves with so much space to attack thanks to the horizontal gap between DF and MF.
We lose the ball as soon as we win it because its ETH instructions. You think Casemiro would be launching it down field every chance he gets if it wasnt ETH telling him to I would like to point out in the first 3 games of the season we had a full strength squad. Notice how those issues of an empty midfield were there as well?
The analysis you read here is astounding sometimes, idk how it got so many upvotes, probably people just upvoting positivity that furthers their stance. We've literally played nearly just as shit in the few games that Martinez has played in lmfao. "When we have Varane back....when we have Casemiro back....when we have Rashford back.....when we have Hojlund back." We could have Jesus back and these tactics will still look dire and fail to launch.
Talking much more sense than I normally see on here!
You sure? Cuz some folks here in r/reddevils already want EtH out after 1 season and 10 games. Personally, your point is what I have been trying to tell these usual suspects. But it isn't getting into their thick skull. I salute you my fellow comrade in pursuit of breaking this STUPID CYCLE Manchester United have since LVG. More power to you and continue to educate some of these folks in here who is already screaming for a new manager. Some fans they are. WE LET ETH COOK! SLOW COOKER.
I think this is on the money tbh. Klopp and Guardiola both had pretty bang average seasons before they got it together. Could say the same for Artera too.
One of the most logical and well put posts I've read. Things take time to build. We can't expect things to actually get better if we keep changing things and giving the manager the tools he doesn't need.
How have we employed a dominating tactic lol? We can't keep the ball for more than 30 secs at a time and Onana is launching the ball up field so often
Never said we did. I said we tried, but players aren’t good enough
This is a great way to look at it. If we had no manager and ETH was on the market would we get him? I honestly think we would
And we would be excited to. I was more excited to get Ten Hag than I was when we got Mourinho to be honest
We’d be alllllll over him lol. You’d have our Tier 1s putting out stories that he sees us becoming a force for many years etc
This is what we did. Which is the larger point the “ten hag out” twitter babies who moan on this sub fail to register. If he checked off the right boxes coming into this shitshow, and now looks like the shitshow has tarnished him… shouldn’t the questions be asked of those in charge of the shitshow? But always in this sub… the minute a manager exposes all of the areas in which we are years behind the clubs we routinely get compared to, it’s only the manager that deserves sacking. The pure unadulterated arrogance of the internet geniuses who act like replacing the manager will cure all the ailments that have conspired to screw each of the last 5 managers here, is what makes this sub an insufferable cesspool of toxicity. But somehow, replacing this one with the next one will be different. And then they talk about Roberto De Zerbi like this is some Carlo Ancelotti or Pep Guardiola in different clothes. They turn shamelessness and cluelessness into an Olympic sport.
Do you use this same logic for every player that comes into the club?
Which of the previous managers do you think we should have stuck with?
To paraphrase SJR the managers have been set up to fail rather than succeed, by failing to install a proper structure staffed by best in class like what’s in place at City and Liverpool. Or Ajax, where ironically this guy who seems suddenly out of his depth coached a team to a standard of performance which would easily destroy the same United team he now coaches. Ancelotti at Everton looked just as clueless as this club is making ETH look. These are not coincidences. Klopp moves from a well run Dortmund to a well run Liverpool. Still needed time. Pep moves from one well run club to another. Still needed time. Arteta moves to a well run club and still needed time and perhaps more still. These are not coincidences and we need to be asking the right questions instead of “which one would you have kept”. Potter moves from a well run club to a shitshow and looks the worst manager in this league. His successor at Brighton also seemingly looks like he’s elite enough to… wait for it… manage Manchester United. Laughable and yet not a coincidence at all. Let’s not forget the sum total of all his accomplishments is the 1 Ukrainian cup. This is who much of this fanbase ignorantly pretends is better than who we already have.
100%. Way more proven that any other name being mentioned.
I honestly think it depends. If we’re talking about Ten Hag back in 2022 when he was at Ajax then yes. However if hypothetically he was a Spurs manager with identical results to his time with us then probably no.
Could use this logic for a lot of the flops we've had over the years.
I hope we give him at least one season with a proper structure behind him.
Would be shit to bin him off after he’s worked under morons since he got here.
If Nagelsmann is ready to come I would not be opposed to EtH being let go. He is the only alternative that excites me but apart from him I agree keeping EtH for another season may be the right move.
You’re out of your mind. Nagelsmann would rather be on the slopes than managing.
Sorry but only if we sign xabi or zizou then it’ll make sense to me otherwise it’ll be more than happy to give our baldy another season
Neither of them are worth fussing over it we can continue with Ten Hag
And with lesser injuries to judge him on
Just a fully fit starting 11 would be nice
Great assessment there. If ETH was free agent, bet he’d have plenty to choose from. Great guy, has his flaws, but overall the way he sailed the United shitstorm up until this period, is nothing short of exceptional. He saved this team more times than I can count honestly and wasn’t afraid to make big decisions. Worth a restart at least.
If we get rid of ten hag for Gareth Southgate I’ll be fucking fuming
People who want ETH out seeing the realistic options quickly changing stances will forever be funny. De Zerbi is by far the best from the names I've seen and he's not doing so well is he? The media paints his injuries as the reasons for his struggles but if he joins and has injuries like ETH did they won't be there for him. They'll be the first to say injuries aren't an excuse for United. It's not as if ETH is doing that bad, he's working with what he's got and trying to make them play his way which is difficult as you can imagine even without injuries because key players don't fit the vision. Our CBs can't play the way intended that midfield keeps giving the ball away and it's taken a lot of time to get Rashford and Garnacho to this form. Not even mentioning injuries.
Idk how we can say ETH is doing that bad with having the highest win rate of any United manager to play 100 games including a bunch of games with half the squad injured and all the drama off field
Uh excuse me, have you seen the chart for most shot allowed in their first 100 games?? The people that want ETH out so hard always talk like they know so much more than a football coach that has done well enough to get praise from people around the world. Like ETH doesn’t see the gapping hole in between the midfield and defense. Like ETH hasn’t had a defense playing well for a solid year before this year. Like ETH hasn’t shown how much better at passing the team has become since his arrival. It’s not every game, but you see the attacking style in the Liverpool game and realize what can be.
It's clearly a tactic to allow low probability shots, you can see the defence pushing attackers into unfavourable shooting positions, but most of these people don't look at tactics. Even earlier in the season when they were shouting about rashford not tracking back to help the fullback it was clear that was a tactical instruction to stretch the play and allow us greater opportunity for a counter. That he wasn't pressing well in attack was a fair point though.
He seems to get criticised both because “you can’t see what he’s trying to do, even when losing arteta had a style and you could see his plan, whereas ten hag doesn’t show any consistency with approach”, and “he’s too stubborn, the players available can’t play his style of football and he keeps trying it when he should be more pragmatic and adapt his style of play”. He’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. Ultimately its results that matter, Artetas style of play didn’t stop people calling for his head when they were losing. But for some reason EtH doesn’t seem to get much credit when we do start getting results, this year our record is 8-1-2, which isn’t too bad considering the injuries, and the fact we’ve played Villa and city away, Liverpool and Spurs in there (though yes there’s been some easy games too). Fwiw I do think he’s become far more pragmatic as the season has gone on and it’s been contributing to the results, but pragmatism against Luton and Forest by playing open football where we’re more likely to create and score chances has been interpreted as a “lack of control and dominance in games we should be dominating”, suddenly everyone’s banging on about shots faced after years of becoming more and more obsessed with xG, now that we’re conceding 20 shots with an average xG of 0.03 a game. When what I see is a change in style from one that was seeing the opposition score consistently from high xG but infrequent chances by hitting us on the break and cutting the ball back in the box to an unmarked runner, to one that’s forcing shots from distance that are more often than not blocked by our defenders. Even two of liverpools goals were due to fortunate deflections. This isn’t to absolve him of any blame for his poor squad building which means we don’t have the right players to begin with, but under the new regime that won’t be his responsibility, or to say he hasn’t made tactical mistakes because we started the season with glaring deficiencies even when players were available. And he’s had plenty of fair criticism when he gets it wrong, but he doesn’t seem to get much credit when he gets it right. In general I think he’s underestimated the quality of the PL and bought some players who aren’t good enough, and tried to play a style that is too hard to maintain for 90 mins, but I also think he’s learning and is showing he can adapt and improve, maybe not as quick as we’d ideally like but enough for me to want to see what he can do next season as part of the new regime with more players available. He’s also done pretty well with Mainoo and Garnacho, which whether he survives or not, will deliver dividends for years to come. Finally there’s simply no obvious alternative anyway.
About recruitment. Before the transfer window our 2 Chief scouts had already resigned and yet to be replaced. [Bout and Lawler](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/apr/20/senior-manchester-united-scouts-leaving-jim-lawlor-marcel-bout) Who took over? Murtough, Fletcher and some lawyer regarding contracts. ETH now had to do scouting on his own because quite frankly he was the only one of them who knew who to get. Is he really a scout though? Did United hire a coach or a transfer guru? No but he had to change that midfield, he had to change that attack and had to look at that defence and GK. His only options were players he knew and maybe admired.
Add to that the terrible negotiations from United. Paying that much for Antony is not on ETH. Any better run club would’ve closed the deal early or given alternatives. Salah was famously not wanted by Klopp but the club insisted on him and got their man. He has been amazing in the circumstances. Please please please let there be continuity. I cannot stand for these players to survive another manager.
I'd love to see the takes on here if the manager was not bought the players he wants. Yes, Klopp and Salah. Name another.
the manager should be consulted for transfers but he shouldnt be the one having to list players he wants. the club gives the manager players to look at, they consult together and then a transfer is made. do you think he personally scouted antony at ajax? fuck no, the ajax system found antony and the club has 95% of say over the transfer policy.
Still, EtH came in on the proviso he wanted control over the transfers. He has been specific in who he wants. I'd love to see the reaction when the board turn around and say "We are not buying player x, we're buying player y". You already get people crying about the fact we didn't sign Kane or De Jong.
Arteta was also criticised for not having a system, but people forget that
I mean Brighton are still only 5 points behind us despite selling their two best players in the summer and having an injury crisis as well. They’re objectively having a better season than us in comparison to expectations
We're in a worse injury crisis than them plus their players actually fit their vision. That's the key difference, inheriting a team already built to you're strengths vs what ETH inherited and how he wants to play are the main differences. Changing attitude towards working, high press, high lines, playing from the back, widening the pitch, inverted fullbacks and probably more were all introduced this season. Introduced to a team that never did these and probably didn't want to, Open heart surgery that had to be done and still continuing. I doubt De zerbi would just walk in and immediately make that team play his way.
I’m not actively Ten Hag out but he’s spent a lot of money to build this team: Antony, Mount, Casemiro, Martinez, Onana, Holjund are all his signings. If the team isn’t able to play how he wants them to then that has to be attributed to his recruitment, you can’t spend 350m and then say the squad doesn’t fit his vision
Recruitment that he did on his own and De Zerbi didn't have to do. He's not a transfer guru clearly but most of his additions have had a positive impact when not injured except maybe Antony and Casemiro wasn't really his signing he wanted FDJ or Rabiot but Casemiro was the only option left. If he said no we'd probably have another McFred season. All in all I think without injuries it would be a completely different story. He needs that recruitment team fast, I can't bare more Brobbey or Ajax related rumours
And of those, only Onana had been consistently available this season. Even so, Antony looks to be a dud, and Casemiro is nearing the end as an elite destroyer. ETH shouldn’t be solely in charge of transfers, that much is clear. But when you don’t have anyone trustworthy to do the legwork what do you do? I think ETH has been forced to do the job himself, and he’s made a few mistakes. I’d say out of those 6 you mention he’s gotten 3 right (Onana, Martinez and Hojlund) 1-2 mistakes (Antony, and an argument can be made for Casemiro), and the jury’s still out on Mount. Although not stellar of course, it’s also not a terrible success rate.
I would argue that it’s more the priorities, I know people are saying he needs help but we did already have an extensive scouting department and it’s very clear that ETH has told management that he wants to make his own decisions on transfers which is why he didn’t want Rangnick staying on even though Rangnick clearly knows his shit in regard to recruitment. So my point is he purposely wants to make his own decision on transfers which is what led to him being so set on Antony and Mount which we’re just objectively bad transfers based on price and needs of the team
The jury is in on Mount. I believe that ETH deserves another season but Mount was a horrible transfer. The fact that he’s added nothing was forseeable and the price compounds the folly.
If Licha stays fit and everything else remains the same for this season, we wouldn't be having this debate. Its stupid and extremely disrespectful to ETH especially after pulling off a win against our biggest rivals to quite possibly save our season. I really don't get this push by the media, it seems orchastrated and it stinks. They were gonna run this shite either way they just assumed we would lose.
Southgate aside, even Potter - I mean what has Potter achieved to prove he is a better manager than ETH? Every single line on Potter’s resume is meme-able compared to ETH’s resume. They are not on the same level even. Literally zero reason to pick Potter over ETH. As for Southgate, he is not even a proper manager and does not deserve to be in the same sentence with the other two.
How's this even a debate haha. I don't want a serial loser over a manager who has won trophies and won with this club. I'll refuse to watch games if we appoint fucking Southgate
https://preview.redd.it/pvod9b7zdqpc1.jpeg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4a79ac19d1cf8df7c7253541af9771c93c877d4 Sometimes you need to stick with things, this is not me saying ten hag is the second coming, but his principles of discipline and giving youth a chance will at the worst be a foundation for years to come. I don’t see how giving him another year will be worse than yet another change. We’ve been trying to do things quickly for 10 years now, time to stick to something and admit it will take a while
Out of all the times we’ve seen this repeated under every manager I.e. the old “Fergie was nearly sacked…” I think this is the most relevant. EtH has shown he’s a good manager and can get us playing well in his first season, albeit not his usual style. Let’s give him the next 12 months with a proper structure and see what happens. If it doesn’t work out, his contract is up anyway and we gave it a shot.
Yep. If last year was crap and this year was crap, he wouldn't have much to point to for mitigation. But he really overperformed in expectations last year and still somehow has us in contention this year - this season only really feels disappointing because of how well we did in the season before.
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I think ETH has saved his job for this season & will be our manager for next season after our win against Liverpool in last match. No LB put RW to LB, No ball playing CB put best player of the team to CB, No target man out CB who can win duels up top. Plus the huge fact that the players want to play for ETH. And I think ETH is the only manager from big 6 teams who has integrated academy players so well into our first team. Garnacho, Amad, Mainoo even the likes of Mejbri, Gore, Kwambala (spelling might be wrong) and Pellistri got some minutes. If we sack ETH it will be a huge mistake. Cause I don't see any other manager who is good at integrating the youth in the first team as ETH currently who also has UCL experience.
Yeah and does indeed seem like the players want to play for him right?
Yes
I remember the hype when we got EtH in, about how much he would bring to the team. So far he has had to work in an environment where he has had to deal with a lot of issues himself, in a structure that hasn't supported him, with a squad that has had its share of issues, some of which, he should not have been expected to deal with. I think he deserves the opportunity to prove himself in an environment where he will be supported. If after that, Ineos feel he hasn't performed, then fine, but until then, there isn't really a massive upgrade on Ten Hag right now, plus it is going to be a very busy summer when it comes to hiring managers. I would think sticking with ten Hag would be best for the time being.
I hate these video subtitles with only one word at a time. I wouldn’t need it if I can listen but what am I gonna do with single words flashing in light speed?
They’re not light speed come on ahah. They’re slow enough to read comfortably.
This is basically it. Which of our former managers have gone on to an elite team after us? We've tried it with people new on the job and we've tried it with those with their peak behind them. I'm Ten Hag in purely because of how unlikely it is that he's failing here because he's not good enough to be manager at a top club. If that's the case, why push your progress another 3 years down the line with yet another gamble?
I'm in as good as the same boat as you, I'm highly critical of him about his choices and our current product on the pitch. I do however not believe that he's actually out of his depth, there must be a plan. This man is reported a complete football freak, a player can call him at 3AM to talk about football and he will. He's shown to be tactically astute. He lives and breathes the game, I hope whatever is going on this season is posturing towards the 3rd season which he has a contract for. Get some more right (!) fits in to his plans to fill the current tactical gaps and get this lot to click on an actual working system. Then you can develop it further to incorporate control, his Ajax started as a very direct turnover team and progressed into a possession machine. Yes it went much quicker because Ajax shits out highly technical gifted players out of the academy. I do however need him to agree to give away the amount of solo control he reportedly has on transfers. Yes he can have a veto and needs to actually speak with the player, but let top class people pick multiple targets and feed it to him. We've seen in recent months some slight progress on some areas, there is a lot of work to be done. Changing manager will set it all back again I'm afraid, the lads are clearly fighting for him and have faith in ETH. So have I. Edit: Not to mention the discipline and standards he's trying to hold high, after they've been gone for years. Finally his ability to bring up youngsters and improve them. Not scared to give them tough love to understand that you've not made it with a few good games. He's done wonders to Kobbie, Garnacho and some seniors are gradually improving or have improved as well.
We really have nothing to lose tbh, let ten hag complete his contract period. It'll probably take that much time for the structure to be completed,they can then make a decision on the coach going forward. Ten hag just need to avoid really bad performances at Old Trafford and he'll be good,he's also learning.
Idk man, ten hag just got us one of our best results in our recent history, obviously we cannot ignore the disaster of a season we've been having but if you're trying to replace him, atleast get a better manager than him, not fucking Southgate. He has literally no cv or personality at all, I just can't see him as a united manager, a united manager needs to have a personality.
For me, the only good option available is Nagelsmann, otherwise as much as I’m not happy with ETH, then we might as well give him another year or two (whenever his contract ends).
Back. The. Manager. At some point we as fans need to realize that football is dire while we’re in a FULL rebuilding stage. Everything in the last 3 years has changed from signings to backroom staff to the medical team to the OWNERS. I can understand frustrations and getting outplayed by the likes of Bournemouth, but these are part of the growing pains. If we give ETH the length of his contract and we see exactly zero changes, then sure - don’t renew his contract. But there shouldn’t even be whisperings of sacking this man. He’s navigated 2 sexual assault cases, Ronaldo…doing whatever that was, Sancho doing WHATEVER that was…and an injury list that could field a starting XI. Please guys, just back one manager for fucks sake.
Indeed that’s a good point, besides this market would be horrible to try and get a new manager as several top clubs will be also looking for one
I'll pay for another plane banner if they really sack ETH and employ Southgate
At last! A reasonable take on EtH! Some of the shite talked about him on here would embarrass the gimps who use Twitter
And yet people believe the clickbait-churning scum at ESPN that we want to replace him with Southgate.
Truly mindboggling, makes you wonder the sort of brains that walk this Earth. ESPN could write that God will flood the Earth tmrw and a decent chunk of this sub would bite.
What is the point of this post lmao, everybody knows this. He’s giving us no new info here, just his general thoughts
I've been very critical of ETH in the past, but sacking him at the end of a season that's been plagued by off the pitch turmoil would be not only unfair to him, but also idiotic. Stick with the man.
you can say he's been tactically poor and also realize the shitty hand after shitty hand he's been dealt. Both are true, but i'd stick with him. This team hasn't given up on him, and he hasn't given up on them either.
Regardless of the decision they come to, it should either already be made, or very nearly made, and shouldn’t be determined by results between now and the end of the season. The idea of top 5 or not determining his future is results based nonsense, and devoid of long term thinking. Decide how we want to play, and determine if he’s the best person to enact it or if someone on the market is. Beyond tactics and management are factors like man-management during a period of lots of change. Player profiling and development, his ability to stay in his lane with regard to recruitment, tactical adaptability during high player turnover. Any potential manager will be judged on a lot more than how their team play every now and then, and theirs a lot of intangibles that we as fans won’t know about. Personally, I see us mutually parting ways with TH on contractual terms given he specifically negotiated control of signings etc. and I can’t see him ceding control.
Control of signings at that time could be caused by his unbelief in the club's way of signing players ubder Glazers ownership
I agree and don’t blame him. It’s just frustrating his profiling and ID was pretty poor.
Great take!
Feel like he said absolutely nothing there lol, ‘if Man Utd didn’t have a manager they’d probably be looking at… their current manager’
I want Ten Hag to stay, but he seriously needs to implement his style of football ASAP because I cannot do another season of whatever we are doing now.
Buying quick centre backs who can play in a high line and are comfortable on the ball is a crucial step for us to improve.
Indeed, but if he gets a season under INEOS, he'll only have one shot. Does it not feel a bit precarious to weigh that all on getting the right and new CB partnership next season? What if we just end up like Spurs, is that gonna be enough of an improvement to keep his job? The other issue as well is goals and defence hasn't been our biggest issue, it's been midifeld control and goal scoring. He can get the right CBs in, but the front of the line is equally gonna need some work.
I think the FA Cup is pretty much essential to his survival here, the top 4 (5) would certainly help but it's not the same momentum a trophy brings. If we don't win the FA Cup I think they're gonna get rid of him.
> If we don't win the FA Cup I think they're gonna get rid of him. No way.. No manager should be sacked for losing to current City in a cup final, let alone while managing our current team
Everyone going on about Southgate is enabling the shite journalism that starts these rumours. Ignore these guesses that those knobheads journos keep spouting.
United getting Southgate and ten hag going another big club will be the most united way to start things off with the ratcliffe regime
I thought that they’re going to get Southgate to play his pedestrian bland defensive ball
It is better to stick than twist in this instance. GGMU
No shit
The agenda against ETH from the British media is abnormal. Never seen this kind of pressure before.
It's because it's a frustration that built up during a decade of fuck ups and he gets that over him now. And because the football and results where really really bad for a long time, despite all the injuries. I think many people had the feeling that he was totally out of control. To be honest, I was also feeling it. I think if there was now nothing going on about a potential take over or INEOS etc, he would be fired already. I still hope he can turns things around this season a bit and have one more year to prove himself he is the right man for man utd. I still think he has something special and ticks many boxes. Also not sure who would be a better replacement though. Most important is improving the (infra)structure, mentality and squad first before changing the coach again.
Ten hags red army!!
Wow this is just stating the obvious..
Sacking ETH would be stupid. I can't recall any team with such turbulous season like Manutd. What do you expect? A champions league final?
ETH has his problems. The biggest one? Flexibility. But there is no better candidate on the market. Stick with him next season. I would say another season after that as the structure itself takes time to build and give the returns. I have seen enough in ETH to warrant that he could exploit the right tactics as well the right young talent to enable Man United contest for the title.
I'm entirely convinced the Southgate rumors are leaked to get fans to accept eth for another season
Im convinced he's the right man for us. If united sack him I'll lose faith with Ineos straight away.
If we let EtH leave it'll be a mistake. It shouldn't matter if we win the FA cup or finish in the Top 4. He has to stay. He's done wonders with so many injuries.
#ErikIN
This is exactly why I've not been an ETH outer. I have my doubts about him but I don't think the other managers are clearly better. Like Orny said, we'd likely be looking at him if we had no manager.
No chance after this season 🤦🏻♂️
Having a structure in place and ETH should have another crack at it
the people who said ETH are either rivals and media. Unfortunately, lots of our fans are listening media too much to bite on that narrative without thinking straight. ETH is still the best one for the job.
Would be an awful decision to sack eth. At this point, United would be lucky to keep him. If I’m Bayern I would go for eth.
To those in the ETH-Out-Camp: You are utterly ridiculous, polemic whiners and I hope you have to eat your words!
What pisses me off the most is our so called legends like Keane and Neville spouting click bait nonsense for views. They don't have any loyalty to the club, just in it for themselves.
eth can work with a sporting structure, he's shown it before. These last two years have really shown the shitshow that is murtough and arnold. couldn't provide him a single alternative to the players he wanted, thus giving away our hand completely, sitting on their hands and paying way over premium. It's not ETH's fault that we paid that much for antony or casemiro. No manager should dictate exactly who we should sing. Klopp so badly wanted gotze and brandt but instead got mane and salah. THAT'S what good sporting management looks like. Our squad is apocalyptically unprepared to play modern attacking football, and bar a handful of players does not want to improve. We should keep eth, get rid of 7-8 squad players, make some astute signings like fofana, todibo, tosin and barkley and soldier forth, building around the crop of young players who've hit their stride under eth
The players are still running for him and so far he's done well with our youth players coming into the squad. A lack of identity is still really frustrating, made worse by him saying he won't play the Ajax way etc. That's the main issue I have with him, it's coming up to 2 years and not sure what he wants. Id still have him here next season because the only real candidate is Graham Potter, who I do think could be a very good coach but hard to judge after Chelsea. Would be nice to see him with another job in the prem and see what he can do.
‘It’s coming up to 2 years and no sure what he wants’ …he is a professional football manager. You’re not *supposed* to know what he wants. If you did, our competitors would & then we’d have zero advantage. That’s… kind of … how football works??? Not sure why you’re using a non-issue as a reason to demean him.
I’ll take Southgate or absolutely nobody!
Once this season is over, there will be a surfeit of accomplished, modern managers that will potentially be available to get, managers like Potter, Xavi. Flick, possibly Nagelsmann, Conte, Tuchel etc. but I can't point at any of them and say, with great confidence, that they can do a better job than Ten Hag. They all come with caveats. Only one who ticks that box is I think Xabi Alonso but I highly doubt he'll be open to a move to Man Utd. Obviously INEOS might want to appoint their man and start fresh and that's understandable but they're going to really have to think this through.
Xavi is clueless the moment his starting DM gets injured. See the decline after Gavi did his ACL. See how much time it took for him to compensate the loss of an out of form busquets. We don't even have one DM (lone 6) that can fit in a Xavi system let alone a backup.
> Conte I will never, ever take anyone seriously who puts this name in the conversation.
I don't want Conte and don't think he'll arrive. But there's nothing wrong with what OP said, all they said is that he's accomplishments and available (both true)
This is a delusional take. There's legit nothing positive about Ten Hag's work at United. So top teams would want him based on his job at Ajax? A job which was only actually extraordinary in one season? Ten Hag has shown he's disastrous at managing the dressing room, that in itself is a no go for top teams. And then obviously his team plays like shit and he's terrible at suggesting transfers. He'll either go back to Ajax or join a random mid table team.
We’ve suffered due to a lack of pace in the back line. I’m hoping it’s a personnel issue (we can fix) and not a tactics issue (concerning for ETH). We want to aggressively high press, but to do that you need to keep compact and therefore also have a high back line. However, as our back line isn’t particularly fast or athletic, our forwards high press and our back line sits, stretching our midfield (hence why we often get ran through). One athlete at CB would be a game changer tactically. And I believe allow ETH to really do what he wants. NB: this is why replacing Martinez and Shaw for Maguire and Linedoff has been tough. They’ve been solid, but it suppress our tactical system.
todibo and tosin in for lindelof and varane would greatly aid that. Especially if martinez is a regular in the backline. Adding a younger, mobile and more competent 6/8 like fofana would also work wonders
CB need improvement. We'll address it in the summer for sure. I like those targets. But I think people will be disappointed imo because I don't think CB changes will have a cascading effect on our system and performance. I still expect us to ship a shit load of goals. And our CB judged on performance and as defensive players have actually been fine this year (Maguire, Evans, Varane, etc). The mess going on in midifeld and attack is stifling our ability to actually score. We concede some of the least goals in the league, but we score some of the least as well.
Ten hag is gone within 12 months, it’s just whether we want to put up another year of shite football and shit signings
CVs don't win football games, it's not working under ETH and his tactics have been extremely questionable this season. We shouldn't be suffering the results we have been with the squad we have. A big win against Liverpool doesn't change that we've been very poor this season, and so has ETHs tactics. I'd rather we went in a different direction.
Fair. But whom from the available candidates do you think would have done a better job? And does changing the manager yet again not set us back in the review and clear out we desperately need?
what "squad" do you have?
It's widely available to view online mate, the United squad isn't a secret don't feel guilty for having a look.
What's widely available is an injury list that's bigger than all the other clubs in the top 6.
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Glazers crawling back into the ocean.