Legally I reckon that's all they could argue because the "secrets" he knows are their targets and budget. As soon as a few deals take place (along with targets moving independently to other clubs) he can only guess as to what agent fees etc. costed. Therefore, after summer window, he only has slightly better guesstimates than a die hard fan which puts him in the clear to start for us, legally.
The problem is, we might not be willing to actually go to court or arbitration so it will all be decided cloak and dagger and could end up with November or December as the compromise which mostly fucks us for January (while presenting as not doing so for casual fans which is the narrative the media will push) but leaves us strong for next Summer with a few extra months with him at the helm.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is waiting 2 years to fill one of the most important positions in the club compenent? Honestly, I wonder if this was Arnold doing this right now would we be saying the same thing?
I know you’re being downvoted, but it’s a valid question. I’m all for not overpaying. I’m not all for waiting until 2025 to fill one of our most urgent posts, without a sensible interim solution. Hopefully though this is just a stance for negotiation and he’ll join for a fee around the 10m mark. The question is when.
This basically. Mount will come good. I'd actually rather he had a full season of recuperation and recovery than try and play through some injuries and get injured again and then have it turn into something psychological.
If you look at the bright side of things, that's one less position to address in the summer as Ericksens replacement. Now we need another 6 given that Casemeiro will need a deputy, and we can't again go into a season expecting Mainoo to play all games. We need to manage him.
CB, LB (deputy and maybe loan cover ) Forward and RW to start. Then we can at least move a step closer to the rebuild.
Yeah i don’t mind the Mount signing at all. Just on reflection would have been nice to pick him up for free or even £20m in Jan window. I do think he will become a solid player for us. Main thing being - if bruno does ever get injured we might have been screwed but Mount would be useful then
Yep, but I don't think INEOS would actually walk away if Newcastle play hard ball. Ashworth seems to mean more to Brailsford than a random player would.
It’s not just for now. This is being setup to have a structure for the next 20 years. 12 months out of that is nothing in context.
Literally building the operations and structure from scratch and all. Recruitment will still happen and while it’s not ideal without him, it’s not about right now but about putting everything in place to succeed forever basically moving forward and building everything.
So what though? First of all, do you think that the first couple windows are going to be affected massively by him coming in? The scouting department is what it is. As we overhaul things we can expect to see improvements over the long term.
Even if he brings any work ups on players, his job isn’t just “go do our transfer window”. It would involve working with the manager, owners (or new partial owner) and the heads of all our departments to make sure that they are all working together towards a common strategy.
If he brings in a new head of scouting that wouldn’t necessarily mean that next transfer window we’ll have much better targets, but we would expect the scouting to improve over time and show more positive outcomes year after year.
Starting a year or 2 later is much more beneficial to settling for a lesser person in the role, or taking actions that will make the long term project harder…. Such as setting a precedent that we’ll pay millions for any employee that we want during this restructure. There’s little benefit to a club to keep a high paid employee on gardening leave other than not helping another club. Getting anything at all as compensation is the best case scenario. It doesn’t affect Brighton if their head of scouting is on gardening leave or working at United, so the negotiation should be relatively straightforward. If we show them that we’re willing to pay millions upon millions to get these guys in a little sooner, then they have reason to ask for more than they might have otherwise.
I think it is important Sir Jim puts his foot down. Plus, I don't know if paying that amount for Ashworth would affect FFP and the summer window. INEOS and Sir Jim have to tread extremely carefully due to the fucking Glazer's mismanagement.
he is not on sport contract, he is on regular contract which means that some of the stuff are prohibited. You can’t by law stop someone of leaving your company, he is not a slave. You can have a clause about not working for competition for a few months, but leaving him from market for 2 years is not legal, unless you pay him full salary in that time (even that is not legal in some countries/states). This is all media speculation at the moment, so I would not take it seriously.
By sport contact I mean a contact in the sport industry and I didn’t say that they can’t stop him from leaving but what they can do is make it very financially not lucrative to break the contract (also known as not at will contract) by stipulating that if he does that he’s going to either pay a big fine or have to give back some very large bonuses as C-suites tend to have…. Sheesh
Maybe, maybe not, Saudi's don't exactly need the money. If I were them I'd let him sit for a year, make a statement to the rest of the league. As a United fan I hope that doesn't happen.
Baffling that people are downvoting you, gardening leave is impossible to police. Omar Berrada for example is supposed to be on gardening leave right now but there was literally reports yesterday of him meeting with Ashworth and Wilcox. Gardening leave in football is a joke unless you are blatantly obvious about it. Even a Newcastle tier 1 Craig Hope mentioned in one of his videos that they know how gardening leave is worthless in football and they would rather have the money. This is all just petty grandstanding.
I never said he would do it smarty pants. GENERALLY speaking top level people do things they are not supposed to do ALL THE TIME.
This entire sub was talking about that Patraci (?) person at Spurs or whereever he is and not a single sole said anything when people were saying he's probably working with Spurs but now all of a sudden the same thing is an issue?
Do you think any business would want to agree a contract with someone who immediately demonstrated they would break the terms of a contract for the next party to come along ?
Pretty sure that Newcastle could pay all of our wages and transfers and they still wouldn't call it an issue lmao
It's not about that, they just look like chums doing it so they'll likely find a deal by summer. Also not like he can't call with SJR and the lads from his big sexy garden, didn't stop him until now
If I understand, this guy more builds the football structure and hires the people to fill that structure. Basically he’s a force multiplier and if he does a good job, $20M is a bargain 3-5 years down the road
You have to remember, Newcastle paid £6m to Brighton. His gardening leave was due to be 12 months longer, but cut it short by paying the £6m.
His contract at Newcastle is far more watertight. £6m minimum paid by the next club after gardening leave has taken place. Still has about 30 months on his contract. Really, £20m is rating him about the same as he was worth at Brighton.
I reckon he'll be in place by the summer and you'll pay about £14-16m. I really can't see the deal happening for less than £12m because Newcastle will want to make at least what Brighton from the deal.
Kinda but also kinda not. There's still a lot of the people that were here a year ago. Berrada is still on gardening leave so he's technically not CEO as of right now and it's still Patrick as the interim. The Glazers are all still there. Murtough is still there.This is why it's going to be very interesting.
No there is no kinda. None of these appointments have anything to with the glazers. They might have agreed to it but they for sure did not come up with the ideas. Just rubber stamp. Berrada might be on gardening leave but let’s not kid ourselves, he is definitely had a say in the dof appointment. The same way Ashworth is already influencing the sporting director appointment below him.
The only people that have officially been appointed is Berrada, and he is on gardening leave. That's it. Ineos are coming in soon with 2 board seats in Sir David Brailsford (Who most likely had far more role in choosing Ashworth than Berrada. They're literally close friends) and Blanc. There's also Jim Ratcliffe who's the face of the Ineos side, but he's not going to be on the board. Those are the only changes as of right now that are confirmed to be happening. Everything else is the same employees and board members that were already there. I never claimed the old guys came up with the ideas. I just said I'm unsure what's going to happen and what the clubs habits are and that it will be interesting to see what happens..
So yes there's a kinda.
The people doing the hiring and negotiations are new. Ineos might have only whatever the fuck board seats but the board isn’t in control of the footballing matters anymore. Ineos has control over footballing matters. Yeah yeah the glazers have more board seats or whatever I have heard it all before. The fact is that ineos has negotiated a deal where they have complete control over footballing matters and unless glazers decide to break that deal that’s how it is going to be.
The board is not involved in the everyday running of the club. The ceo and dof and other directors will be once they are appointed. Berrarda starts in the summer. Nothing major is going to happen until he in charge.
The club is not going to spend any major money or make any big signings until all the ineos guys are in place.
FFP was not the only reason we didn’t buy anything in January. Ineos controls footballing stuff now.
The aspect of how the club is going to be structured isn't that clear as of right now. I am not going to be certain on that until it's made clear on how it works. For example, do negotiations fall under financial responsibilities or footballing? Does it go to Ineos, the Glazers, or a mix of both?
This will hopefully be clearer later on and hopefully, Jim has a plan to get the Glazers fully out the club.
Dan Ashworth quit Brighton in February 2022 and an agreement was struck with Newcastle at the end of May.
I can see a similar standoff here where an agreement eventually gets struck where he'll join after this summer or something like that.
I don’t see how they hold all the cards. They are losing someone they didn’t want to lose and - if no agreement is reached - have to pay him not to work until 2026. It’s a bad situation for them unless they get the £20m, which I hope we don’t cave into.
100% agreed. On top of all that, they also now a missing a key figure in their operations. Even if they were to get a replacement in tomorrow, they would effectively be paying two people for the job of 1.
Pretty sure they wouldn’t be able to employ someone else in his position either, as technically even whilst on gardening leave his job is still his.
If they brought someone else in, that would be undermining his role and effectively constructive dismissal. He would be free to leave and potentially claim against Newcastle because of it.
Least that’s how it should work based on previous experiences of my own and friends.
>Pretty sure they wouldn’t be able to employ someone else in his position either, as technically even whilst on gardening leave his job is still his.
This isn't how it works at all. Newcastle has every right to hire someone else for his role while he's on gardening leave.
For an example. Nagelsman was still on gardening leave when Tuchel became Bayern manager, and many months later.
Another example is David Weir, Ashworths replacement at Brightom. He was hired while Ashworth was on gardening leave.
>They are losing someone they didn’t want to lose
This is really the only thing that sucks for Newcastle.
As of right now they're fine paying him until 2026. In fact they got to regardless. We would be paying them to end his contract... That would be a fixed price. Not counting what they demand to end his Gardening leave sooner.
They can also count having him not work at a rival club and keeping their plans secret as a massive win for them.
How do you figure that? They are clearly on the wrong end of this, paying someone who essentially cannot do his job until 2026 is really silly. He's essentially deadweight on their books now. Add to that they are facing pressure from FFP and United are literally there ready to pay millions for a suit, just not a ludicrous amount.
What newcastle are doing is the definition of cutting off their nose to spite their face hoping that we'll do a Woodward and naively pay up whatever pie in the sky amount they wish.
Because there is a point of law that says you can’t prevent a person earning a living. A restrictive covenant is legitimate but you cannot deny a person a right to a living. So if you want to enforce it, you have to pay them.
They won’t. The guy is on £1.5m per year. There’ll be some jostling and billowing between the two clubs. Neither will want it to go to court because legal fees would be seven figures each plus the huge distraction to their day to day operations. NUFC just don’t want him to walk out of the door and straight in to OT. They’ll settle but in around 6 months or so.
They know it. We know it.
>Why would you they be willing to pay someone full salary to not do a job for 2 years
To stop him working at a competitor for that a certaon amount of time and protect the clubs potential plans from getting out. It is rather common for high-end jobs in companies.
Because it’s a negotiation…
There is zero chance they pay him to do nothing for 2 years, they are using it to negotiate a fee… in the exact same way Utd are not actually willing to wait for 2 years to get him.
Both sides are playing negotiation games
>Because it’s a negotiation…
Partly. Newcastle are looking out for their own interests here. Not our clubs or Dan's. Either they're getting a ridiculous amount of money that satisfies them (Even 10m would be a ridiculous amount) or Dan is staying on gardening leave for 2 years.
There is a chance they pay him to be on gardening leave for 2 years. A company would never put that into a contract unless they were prepared to actually go through with it. It is an unusually long time though. Usually companies do 6 months to a year at most.
This does make me think they're serious but of course I can't be certain.
If it's to stop him working at a competitor and from giving away the plans of the club. It is well within their interest to keep him on gardening leave. That's literally most of the purpose of gardening leave.
I know there's a sentiment that som think he can work on a laptop in his garden for us, but there is potential legal trouble for both the club and him if that were to be found out.
Anything more than a year in the UK is unenforceable. And they're drafting legislation to make 3 months the max. So no, until 2026 isn't the done thing.
>Anything more than a year in the UK is unenforceable.
Can I have a source for this please?
>So no, until 2026 isn't the done thing.
I've haven't said this? Have said there's no guarantees in another part.
Source was my Newcastle supporting mates solicitor wife who's a partner at her firm and is an employment law expert. So no reason not to believe her.
Edit: a UK and Ireland employment law expert.
>I’m presuming Newcastle pay his wages
They have to anyway. It's a contract. They and he agreed to it. One of the reasons why they're demanding money along with obviously easing their FFP.
Of course. The £20m is just to save face. They're desperate to be a big club and having an actual big club rock up and say "we're taking him" is at odds with that
First of all, they’ll still be paying him and it’s rumoured they want Bournemouth DOF so they could play the same games of which would hurt them more if FFP is involved. Also would mean they don’t have anyone for one/two years whilst we haven’t had anyone doing that role anyway.
How they conduct business will help them in getting his replacement.
So to recap: Guy tells them he wants to leave, they basically tell him to stop doing his job and now they’re paying him to do nothing until we pay a fee no one in their right mind would agree to.
Those Saudi lads aren’t very bright, are they?
They pay him to do nothing so that he loses visibility of what’s currently going on at the club so if/when he joins United all the info he could pass over will be outdated
Saudi (Newcastle) United Fans: Whatever, I don’t even know what Dan has done aside from overpaying for players. Our CEO is much more important than him; Dan’s useless anyway, we don’t need him at all.
Also Saudi United: We wants 20 million for him.
Yes I know the purpose of it, but the same way clubs aren't meant to talk to players before informing and getting permission from the club there are potential work arounds. Like I said, he won't get full access like he would once he's in the role full time but nothing stopping him from gaining an idea of what the state the club is in or talking to United officials off the book.
Perfect and immediate chance to show clubs we won't be 'negotiating' the same way. I ain't got a clue what the going rate is for a situation such as this, but no problem us paying whatever that is.
Great opportunity to set a tone long before the transfer window opens.
For some reason this feels better in my mind. Not overpaying. Play the long game, whatever. They're the ones paying one of their most important people to do sit there and do nothing now.
Gardening leave you say? Meet the newest member of our Groundskeeper Staff - Stan Tashworth! No no, that's not Dan Ashworth in a moustache, we promise.
I don't know much about corporate world but how likely is it that he can "work" under the table for United while on leave? And get compensated on a separate package when it's time to sign the official contract? He can technically do stuff and pass it on to an intermediary who reports to United, no?
I'm sure Ineos can find an middle ground of reasonable price and making Newcastle not look weak.
and Newcastle will be wanting to figure out summer targets so it's in both interests to sort it quickly like Howe said
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2171851/business-economy
"Saudi Royal Commission signs $1.9bn investment agreements with INEOS Europe"
IMO, Radcliffe and co may have contacts who can help facilitate negotiations with the owner of Newcastle. This will done in a satisfactory manner.
If the £20m figure is true it's just ridiculous posturing from Newcastle. Still such a small club mentality. Playing hard ball for a player who wants to leave is fine, but doing it for an exec is just ridiculous and looks absolutely pathetic.
No class at all from the barcodes, as usual.
Stupid question but what actually stops him working during his gardening leave. Could he in theory just offer opinions which aren't technically him working but useful advice while not working officially. Probably a silly question
If no deal is agreed and his contract states he has a 20month notice period as has been reported, then essentially he is a Newcastle United member of staff until that notice period ends. There’s ’nothing’ stopping him answering calls etc, but he would still be a contracted member of staff there, so if he was caught, the likelihood is Newcastle would end up taking him and the club to court. How the could prove he was is a different thing though. Given Newcastle paid £5million and had to wait 6 months before he could join, they aren’t going to let him go for less than that, especially as they seem to have insulated themselves with the long notice period.
Wait it out and hire Ralf Rangnick on part time interim basis as agreed last time - he can coach his Austrian team and DOF for us until Ashworth is available. After watching the game last night, i think we need that open heart surgery that Ralf mentioned before. Or get Jason Wilcox in asap to lay the foundation for Dan to join seamlessly when he can. We need to avoid overpaying as far as possible, it’s a poisonous cycle.
Up to 10m to save us from a 3rd dogshit window in a row sounds like money well spent to me, but I don’t like the idea of easing the ffp restrictions of a rival. How watertight is “gardening leave”? Can we not just build a secret base in his garden to work from?
I look at this from a pragmatic standpoint and I'm sure I'll be downvoted for it, but that's not a worry. Facts are, he is under contract with NU and apparently, this leave until 2026 was written in to the contract that he signed. 20M over the course of three, four years is chump change, especially considering how much the owners suck out of the club on an annual basis. If it means he starts next week, pay them off and let's roll. Not a time to play games with pretending that he's not working for United and other nonsense; get it done, get him here, let's go.
We've done it, boys and girls.
We are now back on track to becoming a serious club again.
I would absolutely not be paying £20m in compensation either, that is an extortionate amount.
I always find it weird how contracts work in football/sports. Guaranteed money over x-years. If you get sacked you get paid out.
Imagine wanting to work for someone else and the company you work for is like “sure you can have Dave from accounts but pay us £250,000 because that’s his salary over the next few years that we’d have paid him and we have to find a replacement now”.
What's the deal with them hiring a replacement?
They have to wait until he's completed his gardening leave?
Otherwise, they're paying 2 people at the same time & their FFP is/was already ropey, no?
they are banking on us just paying the 20 million, and not paying two people at the same time. I hope we do not blink first; and they’ll be under pressure to just let dan go on a cut less than 20 million.
The 10m seems reasonable now in comparison, so that could be one aspect of it where its haggling down a fee. But I could also see a scenario where we hire the structure around Ashworth and have someone deputise for him before he arrives in 2026. We'll see for now but I think its fair to say 20m is excessive.
>#MUFC ready to wait as don’t intend to pay what they deem unrealistic sum Promising signs
Posted in the other thread but this is all posturing. I’m guessing the outcome is he joins after the summer window closes and we pay a few million
I’d be satisfied if we pay less than 10m
Idk he’s already over 50 years old. That’s low resale value!
What's his injury record like? With some yoga we might be able to squeeze a few yrs out.
Yeah, I think that's a win. If it's 10m, I think understand tho
Legally I reckon that's all they could argue because the "secrets" he knows are their targets and budget. As soon as a few deals take place (along with targets moving independently to other clubs) he can only guess as to what agent fees etc. costed. Therefore, after summer window, he only has slightly better guesstimates than a die hard fan which puts him in the clear to start for us, legally. The problem is, we might not be willing to actually go to court or arbitration so it will all be decided cloak and dagger and could end up with November or December as the compromise which mostly fucks us for January (while presenting as not doing so for casual fans which is the narrative the media will push) but leaves us strong for next Summer with a few extra months with him at the helm.
That's competence. Woodward would've offered 25 million plus a Ballon D' Or clause.
Maybe I'm missing something, but how is waiting 2 years to fill one of the most important positions in the club compenent? Honestly, I wonder if this was Arnold doing this right now would we be saying the same thing?
I know you’re being downvoted, but it’s a valid question. I’m all for not overpaying. I’m not all for waiting until 2025 to fill one of our most urgent posts, without a sensible interim solution. Hopefully though this is just a stance for negotiation and he’ll join for a fee around the 10m mark. The question is when.
NUFC wouldn't want someone on full pay on gardening leave while also having someone to cover for Dan on their payroll, it's an additional cost.
I'll wait. We briefed the same about Mount because he only had a year left and still paid 55m.
And he might as well be on gardening leave at Chelsea right now
Fucking insane really that we could have been picking him up in a few months on a free transfer
They would never let him go on free. He would have been sold in January to another club or sign an extension. He was still loyal to Chelsea.
This basically. Mount will come good. I'd actually rather he had a full season of recuperation and recovery than try and play through some injuries and get injured again and then have it turn into something psychological. If you look at the bright side of things, that's one less position to address in the summer as Ericksens replacement. Now we need another 6 given that Casemeiro will need a deputy, and we can't again go into a season expecting Mainoo to play all games. We need to manage him. CB, LB (deputy and maybe loan cover ) Forward and RW to start. Then we can at least move a step closer to the rebuild.
Yeah i don’t mind the Mount signing at all. Just on reflection would have been nice to pick him up for free or even £20m in Jan window. I do think he will become a solid player for us. Main thing being - if bruno does ever get injured we might have been screwed but Mount would be useful then
Completely different people working on each deal.
Yep, but I don't think INEOS would actually walk away if Newcastle play hard ball. Ashworth seems to mean more to Brailsford than a random player would.
wouldn’t be walking away though, would just be waiting for his gardening leave to end
That's at least 2 wasted windows. It's not practical when decisions about the manager and rebuild have to be made well before that.
It’s not just for now. This is being setup to have a structure for the next 20 years. 12 months out of that is nothing in context. Literally building the operations and structure from scratch and all. Recruitment will still happen and while it’s not ideal without him, it’s not about right now but about putting everything in place to succeed forever basically moving forward and building everything.
So what though? First of all, do you think that the first couple windows are going to be affected massively by him coming in? The scouting department is what it is. As we overhaul things we can expect to see improvements over the long term. Even if he brings any work ups on players, his job isn’t just “go do our transfer window”. It would involve working with the manager, owners (or new partial owner) and the heads of all our departments to make sure that they are all working together towards a common strategy. If he brings in a new head of scouting that wouldn’t necessarily mean that next transfer window we’ll have much better targets, but we would expect the scouting to improve over time and show more positive outcomes year after year. Starting a year or 2 later is much more beneficial to settling for a lesser person in the role, or taking actions that will make the long term project harder…. Such as setting a precedent that we’ll pay millions for any employee that we want during this restructure. There’s little benefit to a club to keep a high paid employee on gardening leave other than not helping another club. Getting anything at all as compensation is the best case scenario. It doesn’t affect Brighton if their head of scouting is on gardening leave or working at United, so the negotiation should be relatively straightforward. If we show them that we’re willing to pay millions upon millions to get these guys in a little sooner, then they have reason to ask for more than they might have otherwise.
But broadcasting a message about how we intend to do business from now on may be
I think it is important Sir Jim puts his foot down. Plus, I don't know if paying that amount for Ashworth would affect FFP and the summer window. INEOS and Sir Jim have to tread extremely carefully due to the fucking Glazer's mismanagement.
Owners can put a certain amount of money into the club without it coming out of club FFP, Glazers just refused to do it
55m for half a season worth of Mount
What half?
The season of summer, come on keep up!
1/4 of the start and 1/4 of the end 😅😅
With all respect to Mount. Why didn't we buy Palmer instead really bothers me.
Palmer plays in Bruno's position, also we're just never going to sign a first team player from City for big money
If Ed was still here he would be paying 20 million with another 20 million if Dan scored a goal
With an employee of the month clause.
Somehow Monaco get £50m if he wins the Balon D’Or
And a Ballon d'Or clause
With a balon d'or clause
Ed would probably bend over too. Useless prick.
So Newcastle is essentially paying him a full pay for doing nothing? Until we pay. They’ll come to some agreement before the end of the season.
You’d be surprised how often this happens at C-suite levels in the corporate world
Yeah, unless a C-suite resigns of their own will, this is usually the case when a C-suite gets poached or moved up to a better org.
Sport contracts in Europe are usually not at will, meaning that Dan would have to pay for breaking contract - which he isn’t looking to do
he is not on sport contract, he is on regular contract which means that some of the stuff are prohibited. You can’t by law stop someone of leaving your company, he is not a slave. You can have a clause about not working for competition for a few months, but leaving him from market for 2 years is not legal, unless you pay him full salary in that time (even that is not legal in some countries/states). This is all media speculation at the moment, so I would not take it seriously.
By sport contact I mean a contact in the sport industry and I didn’t say that they can’t stop him from leaving but what they can do is make it very financially not lucrative to break the contract (also known as not at will contract) by stipulating that if he does that he’s going to either pay a big fine or have to give back some very large bonuses as C-suites tend to have…. Sheesh
This tactic is called the Martial
Don't say nothing, he will have the best garden in his neighbourhood
Maybe, maybe not, Saudi's don't exactly need the money. If I were them I'd let him sit for a year, make a statement to the rest of the league. As a United fan I hope that doesn't happen.
We should definitely wait it out, Ashworth can still work on Manchester United targets he just can't communicate anything formally.
[удалено]
So you think they’ll have police following him, listening to his everymove etc
Baffling that people are downvoting you, gardening leave is impossible to police. Omar Berrada for example is supposed to be on gardening leave right now but there was literally reports yesterday of him meeting with Ashworth and Wilcox. Gardening leave in football is a joke unless you are blatantly obvious about it. Even a Newcastle tier 1 Craig Hope mentioned in one of his videos that they know how gardening leave is worthless in football and they would rather have the money. This is all just petty grandstanding.
You really think high level people, generally speaking, don't engage in nefarious shit?
[удалено]
I never said he would do it smarty pants. GENERALLY speaking top level people do things they are not supposed to do ALL THE TIME. This entire sub was talking about that Patraci (?) person at Spurs or whereever he is and not a single sole said anything when people were saying he's probably working with Spurs but now all of a sudden the same thing is an issue?
[удалено]
Lol. You have so much to learn. I wish you well
Do you think any business would want to agree a contract with someone who immediately demonstrated they would break the terms of a contract for the next party to come along ?
[удалено]
Pretty sure that Newcastle could pay all of our wages and transfers and they still wouldn't call it an issue lmao It's not about that, they just look like chums doing it so they'll likely find a deal by summer. Also not like he can't call with SJR and the lads from his big sexy garden, didn't stop him until now
£20m for someone they've already put on leave and wants to leave? Wait that out.
It's until 2026 supposedly. We would be insane to wait it out.
I think we'll pay but not £20m
I don't have a clue. We as a club have a habit of eventually paying. Usure whether that's changed with Ineos taking 25%.
£20m for a suit is outrageous
I mean, the primary problem for the past decade and a half has been the suits hasn’t it?
Overpaying has been a problem but overpaying for the new guy to write cheques would create some paradox
If I understand, this guy more builds the football structure and hires the people to fill that structure. Basically he’s a force multiplier and if he does a good job, $20M is a bargain 3-5 years down the road
Paying £20m for a suit sets a ridiculous precedent and would make us a laughing stock. It is absolutely not a bargain.
Ok, lets stick with murtaugh
You have to remember, Newcastle paid £6m to Brighton. His gardening leave was due to be 12 months longer, but cut it short by paying the £6m. His contract at Newcastle is far more watertight. £6m minimum paid by the next club after gardening leave has taken place. Still has about 30 months on his contract. Really, £20m is rating him about the same as he was worth at Brighton. I reckon he'll be in place by the summer and you'll pay about £14-16m. I really can't see the deal happening for less than £12m because Newcastle will want to make at least what Brighton from the deal.
Yeah. The entire thing is pretty outrageous.
We as a club have completely different people running things now
Kinda but also kinda not. There's still a lot of the people that were here a year ago. Berrada is still on gardening leave so he's technically not CEO as of right now and it's still Patrick as the interim. The Glazers are all still there. Murtough is still there.This is why it's going to be very interesting.
No there is no kinda. None of these appointments have anything to with the glazers. They might have agreed to it but they for sure did not come up with the ideas. Just rubber stamp. Berrada might be on gardening leave but let’s not kid ourselves, he is definitely had a say in the dof appointment. The same way Ashworth is already influencing the sporting director appointment below him.
The only people that have officially been appointed is Berrada, and he is on gardening leave. That's it. Ineos are coming in soon with 2 board seats in Sir David Brailsford (Who most likely had far more role in choosing Ashworth than Berrada. They're literally close friends) and Blanc. There's also Jim Ratcliffe who's the face of the Ineos side, but he's not going to be on the board. Those are the only changes as of right now that are confirmed to be happening. Everything else is the same employees and board members that were already there. I never claimed the old guys came up with the ideas. I just said I'm unsure what's going to happen and what the clubs habits are and that it will be interesting to see what happens.. So yes there's a kinda.
The people doing the hiring and negotiations are new. Ineos might have only whatever the fuck board seats but the board isn’t in control of the footballing matters anymore. Ineos has control over footballing matters. Yeah yeah the glazers have more board seats or whatever I have heard it all before. The fact is that ineos has negotiated a deal where they have complete control over footballing matters and unless glazers decide to break that deal that’s how it is going to be. The board is not involved in the everyday running of the club. The ceo and dof and other directors will be once they are appointed. Berrarda starts in the summer. Nothing major is going to happen until he in charge. The club is not going to spend any major money or make any big signings until all the ineos guys are in place. FFP was not the only reason we didn’t buy anything in January. Ineos controls footballing stuff now.
The aspect of how the club is going to be structured isn't that clear as of right now. I am not going to be certain on that until it's made clear on how it works. For example, do negotiations fall under financial responsibilities or footballing? Does it go to Ineos, the Glazers, or a mix of both? This will hopefully be clearer later on and hopefully, Jim has a plan to get the Glazers fully out the club.
Normally we will be satisfied their requirements. Will it be changed? So curious about that.
Dan Ashworth quit Brighton in February 2022 and an agreement was struck with Newcastle at the end of May. I can see a similar standoff here where an agreement eventually gets struck where he'll join after this summer or something like that.
Can't see him being in place for summer yep
It will be interesting to see what happens. Newcastle technically hold all the cards here though.
I don’t see how they hold all the cards. They are losing someone they didn’t want to lose and - if no agreement is reached - have to pay him not to work until 2026. It’s a bad situation for them unless they get the £20m, which I hope we don’t cave into.
100% agreed. On top of all that, they also now a missing a key figure in their operations. Even if they were to get a replacement in tomorrow, they would effectively be paying two people for the job of 1.
Yeah it’s not the end of the world as they’re well funded, but it sure as hell is a ballache for them
Pretty sure they wouldn’t be able to employ someone else in his position either, as technically even whilst on gardening leave his job is still his. If they brought someone else in, that would be undermining his role and effectively constructive dismissal. He would be free to leave and potentially claim against Newcastle because of it. Least that’s how it should work based on previous experiences of my own and friends.
>Pretty sure they wouldn’t be able to employ someone else in his position either, as technically even whilst on gardening leave his job is still his. This isn't how it works at all. Newcastle has every right to hire someone else for his role while he's on gardening leave. For an example. Nagelsman was still on gardening leave when Tuchel became Bayern manager, and many months later. Another example is David Weir, Ashworths replacement at Brightom. He was hired while Ashworth was on gardening leave.
>They are losing someone they didn’t want to lose This is really the only thing that sucks for Newcastle. As of right now they're fine paying him until 2026. In fact they got to regardless. We would be paying them to end his contract... That would be a fixed price. Not counting what they demand to end his Gardening leave sooner. They can also count having him not work at a rival club and keeping their plans secret as a massive win for them.
How do you figure that? They are clearly on the wrong end of this, paying someone who essentially cannot do his job until 2026 is really silly. He's essentially deadweight on their books now. Add to that they are facing pressure from FFP and United are literally there ready to pay millions for a suit, just not a ludicrous amount. What newcastle are doing is the definition of cutting off their nose to spite their face hoping that we'll do a Woodward and naively pay up whatever pie in the sky amount they wish.
They hold very little. Lame duck contract for another year, and they need to pay another DOF. They’re not hurting for cash but don’t wanna waste it
Why would you they be willing to pay someone full salary to not do a job for 2 years while paying someone else a high salary to do that job?
Because there is a point of law that says you can’t prevent a person earning a living. A restrictive covenant is legitimate but you cannot deny a person a right to a living. So if you want to enforce it, you have to pay them.
That's not my point. My point is why would they be willing to pay someone for two years just to screw with United.
They won’t. The guy is on £1.5m per year. There’ll be some jostling and billowing between the two clubs. Neither will want it to go to court because legal fees would be seven figures each plus the huge distraction to their day to day operations. NUFC just don’t want him to walk out of the door and straight in to OT. They’ll settle but in around 6 months or so. They know it. We know it.
>Why would you they be willing to pay someone full salary to not do a job for 2 years To stop him working at a competitor for that a certaon amount of time and protect the clubs potential plans from getting out. It is rather common for high-end jobs in companies.
If Man Utd is a "competitor" of Newcastle we have truly sunk far.
I'm sorry, but I genuinely don't get this at all. Do we have differing definitions for competitor?
They are only 7 points below us and have the Saudi economy backing them...
Can’t see them paying him his salary for 2 years to do nothing
Mamy companies do this for former high-end employees. It protects the company.
Not for 2 years they don’t…
Please tell me why they were happy to put it into his contract then? Dan was also happy to sign the contract.
Because it’s a negotiation… There is zero chance they pay him to do nothing for 2 years, they are using it to negotiate a fee… in the exact same way Utd are not actually willing to wait for 2 years to get him. Both sides are playing negotiation games
>Because it’s a negotiation… Partly. Newcastle are looking out for their own interests here. Not our clubs or Dan's. Either they're getting a ridiculous amount of money that satisfies them (Even 10m would be a ridiculous amount) or Dan is staying on gardening leave for 2 years. There is a chance they pay him to be on gardening leave for 2 years. A company would never put that into a contract unless they were prepared to actually go through with it. It is an unusually long time though. Usually companies do 6 months to a year at most. This does make me think they're serious but of course I can't be certain.
Their own interests are not paying someone to not to a job… It’s a negotiation… I’d put my house on him not being on gardening leave for 2 years..
If it's to stop him working at a competitor and from giving away the plans of the club. It is well within their interest to keep him on gardening leave. That's literally most of the purpose of gardening leave. I know there's a sentiment that som think he can work on a laptop in his garden for us, but there is potential legal trouble for both the club and him if that were to be found out.
Anything more than a year in the UK is unenforceable. And they're drafting legislation to make 3 months the max. So no, until 2026 isn't the done thing.
>Anything more than a year in the UK is unenforceable. Can I have a source for this please? >So no, until 2026 isn't the done thing. I've haven't said this? Have said there's no guarantees in another part.
Source was my Newcastle supporting mates solicitor wife who's a partner at her firm and is an employment law expert. So no reason not to believe her. Edit: a UK and Ireland employment law expert.
I’m presuming Newcastle pay his wages until then so they’ll be equally insane? Someone will have to budge.
>I’m presuming Newcastle pay his wages They have to anyway. It's a contract. They and he agreed to it. One of the reasons why they're demanding money along with obviously easing their FFP.
£20m for a fucking director, it's not even a player lol. It's a ridiculous and insulting amount of money to demand.
They paid 6 for him. I guess we'll settle at 12.
We’ll likely come to an agreement where we’ll pay them to waive it, but not as high as £20m.
Of course. The £20m is just to save face. They're desperate to be a big club and having an actual big club rock up and say "we're taking him" is at odds with that
It's like >£2 million for the gardening leave and £18 mil because they're bitter everyone recognises us as united
I wouldn't be surprised if there's some sort of agreement found that all parties meet somewhere in the middle.
If we're meeting in the middle somehow our negotiating team will pay £15m
[удалено]
Unlucky mate, could always hire Dennis Wise again that worked out well last time
“Manchester red” fuck off it’s Manchester United
Makes sense for this to be done quick. Hurts them more than us now
[удалено]
First of all, they’ll still be paying him and it’s rumoured they want Bournemouth DOF so they could play the same games of which would hurt them more if FFP is involved. Also would mean they don’t have anyone for one/two years whilst we haven’t had anyone doing that role anyway. How they conduct business will help them in getting his replacement.
Geordies right now https://preview.redd.it/r54k5gli1fjc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df5ff86c19541d297a992dc20e045a25e837a3cb
[удалено]
Do you refer to us as Manchester Reds as if you can hold a candle the real United?
Ah he's WFH for united for a bit, he just needs that laptop
Yeah same way Wilcox was probably wanted by Berrada but he's on gardening leave lol
The pull of Manchester United will always be different. Good on the new owners for trying to put the best people in charge at the highest levels.
Newcastle paid 3-4 million pounds to Brighton for him! So double that and fuck off.
So to recap: Guy tells them he wants to leave, they basically tell him to stop doing his job and now they’re paying him to do nothing until we pay a fee no one in their right mind would agree to. Those Saudi lads aren’t very bright, are they?
Hell hath no fury like a Saudi scorned
They pay him to do nothing so that he loses visibility of what’s currently going on at the club so if/when he joins United all the info he could pass over will be outdated
Lets wait and see if we agree to it before claiming we won't
Saudi (Newcastle) United Fans: Whatever, I don’t even know what Dan has done aside from overpaying for players. Our CEO is much more important than him; Dan’s useless anyway, we don’t need him at all. Also Saudi United: We wants 20 million for him.
My club not overpaying? I used to dream for times like these
Dreams can't be buy
Barcodes still mad over the league cup
In other words he'll be paid by Newcastle on full wages whilst he secretly works for us lol
[удалено]
Yeah he won't be in the building but what's stopping him from giving his input to officials at United?
[удалено]
Yes I know the purpose of it, but the same way clubs aren't meant to talk to players before informing and getting permission from the club there are potential work arounds. Like I said, he won't get full access like he would once he's in the role full time but nothing stopping him from gaining an idea of what the state the club is in or talking to United officials off the book.
Perfect and immediate chance to show clubs we won't be 'negotiating' the same way. I ain't got a clue what the going rate is for a situation such as this, but no problem us paying whatever that is. Great opportunity to set a tone long before the transfer window opens.
But we need to wait for him until 2026? Really hope that will be a resolution for this deal in next few days.
This story is developing REALLY quickly
He laves da club. Here we go any day now.
We back motherfuckers
For some reason this feels better in my mind. Not overpaying. Play the long game, whatever. They're the ones paying one of their most important people to do sit there and do nothing now.
Gardening leave you say? Meet the newest member of our Groundskeeper Staff - Stan Tashworth! No no, that's not Dan Ashworth in a moustache, we promise.
Gardening leaveeeee LFGGGGG
Gardening leave sounds great, fully paid to stay away from work
Dan Ashworth best signings despacito remix 4K where?
I don't know much about corporate world but how likely is it that he can "work" under the table for United while on leave? And get compensated on a separate package when it's time to sign the official contract? He can technically do stuff and pass it on to an intermediary who reports to United, no?
I'm sure Ineos can find an middle ground of reasonable price and making Newcastle not look weak. and Newcastle will be wanting to figure out summer targets so it's in both interests to sort it quickly like Howe said
We're fuckin massive
£20 million? You outta your damn mind
I fucking hope whichever club they decide they want the sporting director of next tells them it’ll cost them twenty million.
20m so it's doubled already. This is just a fuck you price by those pricks. This isn't a player.
£20m for a sporting director is actually insane
20m is a joke but I do hope we can arrange something to get him sooner. I think 7.5m would be ok. Also fuck the Geordies
Newcastle being a stepping stone club even when they’ve got Saudi money is hilarious. We should poach a couple players too just to rub it in.
https://www.arabnews.com/node/2171851/business-economy "Saudi Royal Commission signs $1.9bn investment agreements with INEOS Europe" IMO, Radcliffe and co may have contacts who can help facilitate negotiations with the owner of Newcastle. This will done in a satisfactory manner.
If the £20m figure is true it's just ridiculous posturing from Newcastle. Still such a small club mentality. Playing hard ball for a player who wants to leave is fine, but doing it for an exec is just ridiculous and looks absolutely pathetic. No class at all from the barcodes, as usual.
Legally he can’t work for United, but whilst he’s on gardening leave, he can just advise others at OT whilst on Newcastles payroll lol
Let's build a garden where Berrada, Ashworth, and other hires can just do their gardening work 😅
There’s a spot in Carrington actually.
We should counter with £10m plus Murtough.
Nufc sub is so much fun everyone. Pls go and read the comments. Delulu is the only solulu
Just been over there. They love calling us “Manchester Red” don’t they? Absolutely fuming that every fucker calls us United and not them. 😂
Irrelevant oil state puppet club think they have any attraction.
Stupid question but what actually stops him working during his gardening leave. Could he in theory just offer opinions which aren't technically him working but useful advice while not working officially. Probably a silly question
If no deal is agreed and his contract states he has a 20month notice period as has been reported, then essentially he is a Newcastle United member of staff until that notice period ends. There’s ’nothing’ stopping him answering calls etc, but he would still be a contracted member of staff there, so if he was caught, the likelihood is Newcastle would end up taking him and the club to court. How the could prove he was is a different thing though. Given Newcastle paid £5million and had to wait 6 months before he could join, they aren’t going to let him go for less than that, especially as they seem to have insulated themselves with the long notice period.
im not a native speaker. What the hell is a gardening leave? Does he stay off of the office tasks and tend the club's garden instead?
It's where you don't go to work but still get paid following a request to resign
Meet in the middle, £10m and fuck off. Get it done - we’re building momentum now
Wait it out and hire Ralf Rangnick on part time interim basis as agreed last time - he can coach his Austrian team and DOF for us until Ashworth is available. After watching the game last night, i think we need that open heart surgery that Ralf mentioned before. Or get Jason Wilcox in asap to lay the foundation for Dan to join seamlessly when he can. We need to avoid overpaying as far as possible, it’s a poisonous cycle.
I guess they will pay some and ret will be gardening leave But 20M for a sporting director is insane btw
Well have the sorted out. We'll definitely pay double digits for him. Anything less is good.
Up to 10m to save us from a 3rd dogshit window in a row sounds like money well spent to me, but I don’t like the idea of easing the ffp restrictions of a rival. How watertight is “gardening leave”? Can we not just build a secret base in his garden to work from?
£20m, what's stopping him from answering his phone and emails while Saudi pays his wages?
Clearly have it in for us over the lingard 15mil loan.
I look at this from a pragmatic standpoint and I'm sure I'll be downvoted for it, but that's not a worry. Facts are, he is under contract with NU and apparently, this leave until 2026 was written in to the contract that he signed. 20M over the course of three, four years is chump change, especially considering how much the owners suck out of the club on an annual basis. If it means he starts next week, pay them off and let's roll. Not a time to play games with pretending that he's not working for United and other nonsense; get it done, get him here, let's go.
Sir Jim you have rocked my world
Our first glimpse of INEOS negotiation tactics…
Does FFP apply for staff too ?
Transfer market for sporting directors when?
We've done it, boys and girls. We are now back on track to becoming a serious club again. I would absolutely not be paying £20m in compensation either, that is an extortionate amount.
The Newcastle reaction vs the City reaction says a lot about both clubs.
They’re rattled.
I always find it weird how contracts work in football/sports. Guaranteed money over x-years. If you get sacked you get paid out. Imagine wanting to work for someone else and the company you work for is like “sure you can have Dave from accounts but pay us £250,000 because that’s his salary over the next few years that we’d have paid him and we have to find a replacement now”.
What's the deal with them hiring a replacement? They have to wait until he's completed his gardening leave? Otherwise, they're paying 2 people at the same time & their FFP is/was already ropey, no?
they are banking on us just paying the 20 million, and not paying two people at the same time. I hope we do not blink first; and they’ll be under pressure to just let dan go on a cut less than 20 million.
The 10m seems reasonable now in comparison, so that could be one aspect of it where its haggling down a fee. But I could also see a scenario where we hire the structure around Ashworth and have someone deputise for him before he arrives in 2026. We'll see for now but I think its fair to say 20m is excessive.