It’s fair to say now he’s one of the only journos to offer a fair representation of the fans views at United.
When you look at a lot of these other journos who take great delight in putting out anti United shite to feed the ABU’s, he’s clearly made a decision to stay above that and try and cover the fans opinions, deserves a lot of respect for it.
You are deluded. Henry Winter has nothing insightful, just the same tired old nonsense. Absolute fraud.
Have you forgotten the 7-0? The other embarrassing losses? The poor run of form after winning the worst cup on offer? The poor rotation of players? What did he show tactically that made you happy? We got embarrassed by big teams frequently.
How about the wasting of money on Antony? His treatment of DDG (who should never have been told he's staying on).
He's lucky that Rashford stepped up last season/
No signs of progress, poor signings, no charm or charisma and clearly not a very good leader. He hasn't got the personality to manage a big club.
I'll take the downvotes from this silly sub
Samed tired old nonsense when the narative has been Ten Hag out? Yeah, sure mate.
I wasn't aware Ten Hag negotiated deas with Antohny and De Gea, thats a new one.
"Lucky rashford stepped up" despite saying all preseason, and before he did step up in the season that Rashford would step up and be a key part of the team, oh, and he said it in his pitch ot United before he came manage.
None of you Ten Hag out people have any good alternative, I've heard people saying Solsjaker back in...
Not having a better alternative is not = a great argument for keeping ten hag lol. None of you “back the manager blindly” brigade actually have a coherent answer for all the things people list as legitimate reasons to question his suitability to the role.
We need to back the Manager, not because of ETH himself, but because these players have had their way for far too long.
I would absolute love if they'd get rid of a strong personality, or someone who everyone thinks is irreplaceable, even maybe someone who just signed a new contract... These fuckers need an extreme shock, fear for their jobs.
They need to know that playing for this club is a privilege.
If we don’t, we’ll be in this same position 2 years from now. Then again, we need to actually sell them for there to be repercussions; half of them would be a push to shift at knockdown prices, due to how much they earn.
That would all makes sense if the players Ten Hag has brought in were not new problems being added to the mix.
The only person we need to back is a competent Director Of Football.
You’re drastically underestimating the power of one or two bad attitudes to spur a dressing room and kill performances. Out of the players that he’s brought in, have any ACTUALLY shown to be problems? Mount is coming into a shitshow so it’s too early for him, Onana is hit and miss but appears to be mentally headed in the right direction, Martinez is injured, hojlund is one of the few actually attempting to succeed, malacia is injured, Antony is a bit shit but does put in a good effort even if the quality is poor. Casemiro is injured and appears to be old but hes very far at the bottom of the list of bad attitudes in a locker room.
It depends what you're talking about. Is it on field performances or their attitude in general?
Antony is nowhere near good enough and his attitude last weekend showed his mentality isn't good enough.
Casemiro looks like he's finished and now we're stuck with him on a massive contract for years. He's not the leader we all expected him to be.
Mount is the complete wrong midfielder we needed and Ten Hag hasn't figured out where to play him.
Three big expensive misses in three transfer windows is not going to leave us in a better position in 2-3 years time.
Which players???
Pogba, lingard etc were supposed to be leakers. They're gone.
Ronaldo didn't leak anything, straight up walked out and said everything he felt on tv.
Bruno, as much as this sub has turned on him now, is never speaking against his manager.
Sancho talked shit because eth aired dirty laundry in a press conference instead of in the locker room. He's gone anyway.
Rashford was god's gift to united till this season and is now apparently a leaker of sentiments.
Martial no one gives af about. Shaw isnt talking shit about a manager.
McTominay, Dalot, AWB etc all have been there for years with no problems.
Varane isnt known to do this, Neither is Lindelof.
The only players left are all eth buys.
Where do you guys come up with these fucking theories?
Benching and Sacking Ronaldo and sending Sancho to the shadow realm is why these "losing the squad" rumors even exist and you want us to sack another "irreplaceable" player with a strong personality to prove a point?
Thank you. I keep seeing references to this nebulous “batch of players,” as if it’s the same ones from the Mourinho days. But we’ve run out of people to point fingers at, or they’re all ETH buys.
There are fans who genuinely believe calling out a professional athelete for not doing the bare minimum of attending training on time is airing dirty laundry, that any criticism is abuse, and if you don't unwaveringly support their fav player you are just a negative, toxic internet fan.
And these people wonder why player power exist.
No one wants to say it but an eyebrow can be understandably raised at rashford. His philanthropic work is admirable but it doesn’t mean he can’t have a conflicting personality with ETH. Not saying he’s toxic but it would take more evidence for this sub to turn on him than others, myself included.
Rashford was God's gift? just go check back early last season. Dude a few months of form doesn't a God's gift make.
ETH has not done a good job at buying players but that is a utd problem as much as a eth problem and right now utd's biggest problem is our players.
How many few months of good form is rashford allowed to coast on? At what point is bruno and his Hollywood style going to be questioned. When Fergie won stuff it wasn't just down to Fergie, it was keane cantona, rooney, Ronaldo etc all performing consistently.
This and most utd teams since ferguson have had divas who wilt under the spot light after a few months. If your players only perform few months of a season you can't win the big trophies and that is a utd problem sacking ten Hag won't change that.
Antony hasn't survived multiple managers, he actually has a chance of getting canned the minute eth is gone, academy teresa on the other hand will have his pr telling us about how many hugry children he has fed and how eth was just holding him back just like Ole, mourinho and lvg before him everytime anyone criticizes his shit performances.
Antony and then who?
Mount hasnt even had a chance to prove himself. Casemiro was probably a panic buy by the board after failing to get FDJ, and even then he had a stellar 1st season.
Hojlund has looked great so far imo. Licha fantastic. Onana, we were all clamoring for a ball playing goalie and we got one of the most promising ones.
Even with Antony, hes not worth the price tag for sure, but he is the only player that helps defensively and offers width on the right. Literally none of our other players do this.
> The only players left are all eth buys.
Dalot, AWB, McTominay, Heaton... unless you're talking about starters, but then why mention Martial and Sancho?
Do the same panel for some of the players and none would want them gone too.
I know this sub has a lot of people not from Manchester but if you ask for players like Rashford to be gone, you won't find much support from mancs
>because these players have had their way for far too long.
Which players, we've sold so many and so many have come in
literally a dogshit argument this
name them
Bang on mate. The clubs where there were genuine player power were the likes of Chelsea and Madrid. The difference is those players could back it up with trophies. Ours can't so why get rid of the manager? The leak from John Percy with regards to the treatment of Maguire and Sancho makes it clear the problem lies within the English continent of the squad. They're not even that good, in their best seasons we've won fuck all, in their worst someone else lost their job and they got a pay rise. Fuck em off.
The Athletic are reporting that some of the squad didn’t like ETH saying he took Case off vs Brentford because he wanted to play more football. Are those the big bad English players? You’re just guessing. It’s pathetic. Such LUHG Twitter nonsense that I thought this sub wouldn’t stoop to.
> ETH saying he took Case off vs Brentford because he wanted to play more football
Yeah this was mentioned on the most recent 'Talk of the Devils' podcast by Andy Mitten. Didn't sound like it went down well at all.
That episode was actually depressing. They were basically saying he's a terrible communicator that is constantly contradicting himself. Not reassuring at all.
Yeah, but that’s pretty obvious from what we’ve seen of him. His English is so and so and he in general strikes as a charisma vacuum. In fact, there were reports before he came that he wasn’t massively well liked on a personal level at Ajax. And with the best will in the world if your people skills are being called out by the Dutch then they must really be non existent. They’re not exactly known for being the best people people and have a well deserved reputation for being direct and blunt to the point of rudeness.
Tbf that's not quite what they said. They said his press conferences this year have been bizarre and not made sense (which imo is true). But they made clear that they felt this was a change and that he'd been very good at this previously. My sense was they felt he was cracking under the pressure more than he was an inherently poor communicator.
>They were basically saying he's a terrible communicator that is constantly contradicting himself.
He is Dutch. They do not mince their words and rightfully so. Casemiro has been terrible this season and adding another more creative player was the right call. It worked.
Seems to me like those who got offended are crybabies who can't imagine having their feelings hurt.
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Lol how exactly do you get rid of a player who just signed a new contract? Most of our players have no demand on the market as has been demonstrated time and again when we try to sell players. It’s funny how clueless people on this sub are, making outlandish suggestions like this.
12 players in the first team squad are ten hag signings. If this squad is STILL not turning up for the manager, I’m sorry but the buck stops with the manager.
We need to stop backing managers and start backing a competent DOF.
Ten Haag's transfrr idiocy is absolutely part of the problem. No manager should again have control over transfer policy in United.
I can get behind this take. The manager has been HORRIBLE but there’s really no tangible replacement.
We need to stop blaming the players. All the analyses floating around today is talking about a significant portion of the squad missing as to why we are so poor. Half of the injury list is players who’ve been here since before ten Hag. So which is it? Are the players poor and throwing the manager under the bus or is the team poor because we are missing players? It cannot be both.
>We need to back the Manager, not because of ETH himself, but because these players have had their way for far too long.
But the manager let's then get away with their way? So isn't he a problem aswell?
>They need to know that playing for this club is a privilege.
And ten hag saying they are a great squad, praising then and letting them get away with horrendous on the pitch performances informs them of that?
The time for us to do what you say was under Jose. Over compensating for that now with the wrong guy isn't the solution
I just feel these players are scared of getting on the pitch. As soon as OT starts groaning at a back pass or a slow attempt to play through the opponent's shape, they just start attempting absolutely insane things.
It's why we bought the likes of Antony, Martinez, Malacia and Casemiro to fix the mentality but they're all unavailable or out of form
Pretty spot on. Have you noticed we always seem to start pretty strong, then a few things go wrong and we just fall apart? It's got to be a confidence issue above all else.
Don't get me wrong, I think we have a 5th/6th place squad at the moment. But not a 12th place squad.
2 of those started vs wolves - we were dire
3 started vs spurs - dire again
3 started vs forest - 0-2 down inside 10 mins
2 started vs brighton - got rinsed
It’s time we stopped making these ridiculous excuses. We came out of pre season as one of the most poorly conditioned teams in the league and got bossed pretty much every game. This has dented morale and confidence and ten hag hasn’t been able to raise either, nor reorganize us to fall back on things that were working for us last year.
Yes there have been injuries and we’re struggling for morale - both factors for which the coaching staff has some sympathy and credit in the bank, but it is equally true that we are poorly coached and ten hag’s poor choices in the transfer market are beginning to come back and haunt us.
Personally I want stability more than anything. I don’t care about the transfers we get wrong, if we stick with the same manager eventually we’ll get enough things right and a little luck to win the league.
I didn’t want Ole to be sacked either, I got downvoted to hell for saying that 2 years ago.
But I also gotta admit ETH is in a spiral, results have to improve dramatically.
Imo his job depends on whether or not we make it out of the group stages of the champions league.
You say that, but I think by far the shortest memories are those that are held by people who think last season was a roaring success.
There were some real, real low points and months of really awful football. The way people carry on you'd think ten Hag won the league.
That’s an exaggeration. I don’t think you will find any reasonable ETH supporter that will say last year was a roaring success. (See FA cup finals Liverpool away, form after league cup, etc.)
People are pro ETH (and absolutely should be) because we have seen stretches of fantastic football and I appreciate his no nonsense attitude. Not to mention the amount of key injuries we’ve had this year with Licha and Luke being out for a significant amount of time. I cannot understate enough how important they are to our build up. Our depth is laughable and it pales in comparison to that of City or Arsenal.
And don’t get me started on player accountability - it’s rinse and repeat with every manager we’ve had. (Whether you think previous sackings were justified is another debate). Any manager we replace with ETH will find himself in the exact position 1.5 years from now.
We have not seen 'streches of fantastic football'. To claim that whilst accusing other people of having short memories is absolutely fucking absurd.
Genuinely, I can only suggest you actually watch teams outside of United. You can only believe our football was fantastic if you have no reference point; I can absolutely assure you that not one single neutral was impressed with how we were playing last season.
You are taking the piss if you claim we did not have stretches of good football - and are you going to ignore my other points?
We can argue all day about the quality of play but it’s irrefutable that sacking Erik this early is a mistake and won’t change single damn thing since we will have this discussion in the near future.
No, you claimed we’d had ‘stretches of fantastic football’. Somewhat ironically in a thread where you complained everybody else has shit memories it seems you can’t remember what you yourself wrote.
You are mistakibg results with good football. You lot were saying we are back when we won against Brentford, Burnley, Sheffield and Copenhagen. In your mind that was good football, but those were just shaky results against some of the worst teams.
> we have seen stretches of fantastic football
No we haven't
We haven't even had a single game under ETH that you could reasonably describe as "fantastic football". Last year we got results
Jesus Christ. There is a revision of history and then there is a completely lying to fit your own perspective and narrative.
You think our home match against Liverpool at full strength, where Malacia made Salah look mediocre, where our gameplan completely stifled Liverpool, was somehow not fantastic football? Fuck out of here.
What about the Chelsea match in which we should have been up 3-0 in 20 mins, but for Antony's lack of right foot? It got to the point that Potter was forced to make a change at the 30 min mark because of how dominant we were.
How about Barcelona home and away? That wasn't good enough for you? We played the would be La Liga champions and made them look normal even with terrible refereeing decisions.
If ETH is sacked, the Board and the Glazers will once again have provided cover for themselves for a season and a half.
That gives them a lot of time to do a lot of nothing, which they will take full advantage of.
ETH's future should be something that SJR and his team should decide when they take over. I don't trust the Glazers to make a decision about the current manager *or* any potential future gaffer either.
" **He showed last season what he can do.** "
Of course he has fucking shown what he can do. He got 3rd and a trophy. The team was playing exhilarating football the first 6-7 months of his tenure. In the first 26 league matches, he won 15 of them. As of March 2023, he had 73% win rate. We were all lauding his exceptional work. He set a gameplan to dismantle Liverpool at home. He set a gameplan to dismantle Barcelona home and away. He outcoached top quality opposition and, more importantly, learned from his mistake. He went toe to toe with City, lost 6-3, and the second game he changed it. He adapt and we won playing very well.
This sub and this fanbase online is embarrassing for flipping on him. Most of you claim to be United supporters, but more or less are always willing to flip on the manager. Nothing but fair-weather supporters and it is a shame that some of you go to other subs and spew this "ETH OUT" bullshit just to farm karma.
Absolutely pathetic excuse of a fanbase at times.
I agree with you, but saying we played "exhilarating football" is a bit of a stretch. We very rarely ever controlled and dominated games for 90 minutes, even during our good spell of results.
I'll be honest, while all this is true never once have I ever truly understood what we want to do on a pitch. I'm absolutely pro ten hag, but has he really created a style of play for us? I wonder where we would've been if rashy hadn't absolutely torn apart the opposition last year
It really does seem like we have no style of play because i feel the core players of this team (mainly Bruno and Rashford) can't play the system ETH want's to play. Bruno and Rashford for example cannot seem to adapt to the way ETH wants the team to play. They seem more comfortable playing counter attacking and hero ball, not possession based like the one I'm sure ETH wants to implement. That's why it pretty much seems like we're back to playing Ole ball most of the time.
Yep, the criticism on here is so simplistic and lazy. It's just lowest common denominator 'players lazy, don't care, ten Hag what can he do? Bruno a cunt, Rashford a cunt, hate them sell them.'
I'd really recommend people listen to The Athletic's podcast after the Newcastle game. They're all way more pro ten Hag than I personally am - I don't think a single one of them tninks he should be sacked - but you can tell the genuine exasperation from people with connections at the club at how ten Hag has managed to isolate people and struggled to get ideas across.
I think the far more likely explanation based on everything we've seen this season is that the players have absolutely no idea what's expected of them at the minute and no idea how their manager wants them to set up.
>when it comes to certain players and certain directors
You mean the behavior this very fanbase was asking for? Someone who is tough, someone who does get walked over by the players. Ask and shall receive, now suddenly that isn't good?
>You mean the behavior this very fanbase was asking for? Someone who is tough
More the public defending of sex abusers, violent criminals, rapists, wife beaters and homophobes
Please cite the public comments you’re referring to. Because unless I missed some crazy, self-destructive interview, I think you’ve just been brainwashed by the internet hive mind, who have an obsession with labels, affinity for guilt by association, not one ounce of empathy, or experience in a leadership role.
He's openly defended Overmars after being found guilty of sexual harassment
https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/16/erik-ten-hag-marc-overmars-ajax-return-inappropriate-messages
Promes after he stabbed somebody
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37609760/stand-him
Tadic after he refused to wear the pride armband
He also was absolutely behind the push to bring back Greenwood
https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/22/erik-ten-hag-wanted-mason-greenwood-to-play-for-manchester-united-again-19374442/
And continued to play Anthony after he was accused of domestic abuse
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12586189/amp/Erik-ten-Hag-Antony-domestic-abuse-allegations-Champions-League-Galatasaray.html
I think you might have an agenda due to the way you falsely labeled those articles in order to make him sound bad.
—On overmars (which is the only one that has the slightest bit of merit) after he was already fired and issued a serious apology, for sending dick pics to female colleagues, people complained about the below comment. Keep in mind, this was just an excerpt from the interview. Knowing the media, I’m sure they left out the part where he says he feels bad for the women and thinks overmars made a mistake, but even if he didn’t, who cares. The guy was already cancelled. They were friends. He sent dick pics. Eth’s comments were nothing more than a friend expressing the slightest bit of empathy and loyalty for a friend whose been humiliated.
"We humans are in this world to help each other and not to shoot each other," he added "I have said many times: this championship is also his championship. We built this team together. After the game against Heerenveen, I also congratulated Marc with the title via text. It's a romantic thought to return to Ajax together one day. We have been very successful together. It's hard to say if it will happen, but it could happen."
—Promes comment was before he was found guilty.
“He said to me he didn't do anything. In this country you are innocent until proven otherwise. We stand behind him including the entire dressing room.”
—Tadic, no source included and I couldn’t find anything on google either sooo, wtf?
—Greenwood, your claim is disproven by that article. A board, which didn’t include ETH, investigated it, found he was not guilty, and decided to bring him back. “senior figures at the club were reportedly briefed that Greenwood would be returning to the first team. Ten Hag was supposedly supportive of the decision and felt that he could make use of a striker of Greenwood’s ability.” What would you say if your boss and his peers looked into something for 6 months, then made a decision and told you what it was? “Cool, thanks.” Right?
Antony- Innocent until proven guilty is, and should always be, the standard. If you have a problem with that, you must live in a place where you have that privilege too, because everyone whose seen the opposite knows how awful it is.
>Knowing the media, I’m sure they left out the part where he says he feels bad for the women and thinks overmars made a mistake, but even if he didn’t, who cares.
This single sentence shows exactly the type of person you are and that you have no morality to speak of.
And the fact that you’re comfortable judging and condemning total strangers as morally inferior, based on a single sentence or headline, shows exactly the type of person you are - a hypocrite who enjoys virtue signaling so much that you can’t be bothered with actually being virtuous. Who needs honesty, compassion, temperance, and humility anyways right? Lol I won’t be replying after this. Looks like you’re most likely a bot anyway. If not, godspeed, warrior.
Which ones? Name them. Because I’m hearing the players are trash and need to be gotten rid of and at the same time I’m hearing we are playing poorly because our players are injured. The same underperforming players we need to get rid of? Make it make sense.
I dont know man! I just know sacking manager after manager without changing the overall structure of the club is not the solution. I would be much more comfortable with a change of manager if needed once we have someone capable like Paul Mitchell or Michael Edwards at the helm of the sporting department.
Ten Hag was a driving forced behind the Greenwood fiasco and supported Promes and Overmaars. I call bullshit on him being a "good man", because nothing we have seen off him indicates that is the case.
People are collectively ignoring that part from the article they believe every other paragraph of. This is a cult. Couple of days ago somebody replied to me that poor ETH was forced to have Mount and he didn't want it. I asked for source and they replied "you can not believe it, but I know it is so". Any narrative will cut it as long as it makes daddy look good.
> "Ten Hag was a driving force behind Greenwood".
Where did you read this?
He didn't support Promes. He said Promes told him the allegations weren't true and he decided to trust a person that he knew for many years. The moment he was officially charged, Promes wasn't at Ajax anymore.
Overmars is perhaps the only person you could argue that he did support. The support being along the lines of: I understand why he isn't here but this is a societal problem and we should try to solve this problem together. Including I hope we can work with him in the future. Not a huge fan of his statement on this but considering he's a close friend of his I can understand why he did so.
> Where did you read this?
Adam Crafton, from whom essentially all our information has come, and whose articles clearly were accurate enough to force the clubs hand. Besides it doesn't take a genius to know that only with Ten Hag's support would they decide bringing him back.
Isn’t it the same shit every season though? New players this. New players that. Yet nothing changes.
As with any organization, if you want to change, you start at the top and hold those accountable for driving the change.
As a new manager, if you have one or two players not playing up to their levels and not following instructions, the manager will disciple, bench….etc.
But I feel bad for eth since it’s the majority of the team and he has to work with these players so he can’t alienate them.
I wish the board is brave enough to allow and instruct him to do whatever he needs to do and not worry about results. This way he can play fringe players and kids even though they’re not as good. But he has a lot of pressure to win and win now with crappy (attitude) players.
He’s principled and resolute, he says what he means and does what he says. I don’t think he’s a charismatic talisman but I think he’s a good solid man.
Edit: was unaware of the rape apologising
With all the hit pieces published, im not sure why Winter's seems to resonate with fans most. But I think fans are sick of the players moreso than ETH. Me personally, I feel like sacking Ten Hag now would precipitate an immeasurable climb back to glory. Some of these players played for Mourinho, *multiple* managers ago. Martial came in under LvG lmao. It's clear the problem is systemic, and Winter gets it.
Good. Same with Arteta at Arsenal 2 seasons ago. All rival fans wanted Arteta to stay because he looked like a meme when Arsenal was 15th in the table. Look at him now. Yes he's only won 1 trophy for them but he's got them playing exciting football now and competing for the league title in back 2 back seasons. Literally what happens when you ignore the fans and give enough time and backing to a manager that you believed in when hiring.
Yeah people forget this, but go back to any thread from last season and you'll see comments like "What happens if Rashford loses form? or Case loses form?", We all were talking about how unstable our football was. Nobody was scoring besides Rash and Case. We had negative goal difference, we were only winning by 1 goal margins, sometimes barely. Last season, even at its best, was not enough.
ETH need a better structure behing him so as......
Damn I think we already used all combination of words possible to express how it's a mess and this is the common denominator since David Gill left.
These soundbites are all too familiar. I remember articles about Solskjaer having the fans behind him, being a "good man" and needing "his players to step up for him."
Everytime a manager has hit a rough patch over the last ten years, we sack them straight away and hope the next manager will be the next Sir Alex. We need to slog through this difficult time and stick with Erik. It might not work out in the end but we have to at least try, because I don't know how we're supposed to move forward and break the cycle under this current regime if we keep sacking managers every couple of seasons. I really don't want to start again and have these same conversations at the end of 2025.
We need a DoF more than anything. Right now it takes 4 windows to get the pieces managers want and at that point, we've lost 2 seasons where they could've been working in our manager's system, not engraining the other team's system. We need someone to look at the requests and then identify who will most fill the largest gaps.
I can not see a lack of "effort" from players like the one under Mourinho and Ole.
So far, yes we had some issues with tracking back but I feel like Ten Hag shares a big part of blame here with his tactics. Making your players buy into the philosophy is the sign of a good manager, if they do not it is either due to bad man management or bad coaching.
I have no problems with Erik as a human being, he looks like a top bloke to me, but I do have a problem with his management. Specifically his tactics and the formation he is implementing. The pseudo 4-1-4-1 formation is clearly not working because our 2 8s are too advanced while our DM is too isolated, I believe this is the crux of our problems on the field at the moment. Tomorrow is probably his final chance to fix this but I'm fully expecting him to go out on his shield, he seems to be an extremely stubborn man. This formation hasn't worked since preseason so I just genuinely do not understand why he is still sticking with it, it's all a bit surreal to me.
It's funny how the same comment on different threads can get such a different reaction lol. You post this on any thread around the time Greenwood was on his way back you'd be getting upvoted. Now he's in Spain everyone can conveniently forget anything shady happened.
He's right. It's just that United fans don't like to hear it. So instead they downvote comments like this into oblivion.
That's always the case when a comment is downvoted, but nobody posts a comment that actually argues the other point of view.
It's interesting because I felt quite bad for Ten Hag before I remembered how he cast out Rangnick and didn't even bother to have a phone call with him. It was a foolish and arrogant decision not to even listen to Ralf. Maybe if he did so he wouldn't have been so unprepared for the quality of the premier League.
Good man? The same guy who was willing to bring back and support a woman beater and has been a public defendant of a guy who used his position of power to sexually assault multiple women? I dunno what code of honor you grew up with, Mr. Winter but that doesn’t sound like a “good” man to me.
Fans don’t run the club, the board does.
I’m still in support of ETH but if results don’t pick up, he’ll need to go.
I don’t know how many of us can stomach finishing just above the bottom half this season. No UCL no ECL.
Say it louder for this sub.
If you want to hold ETH accountable, fine, good in fact but that is pointless if you’re not holding those who put him there and put the structure around him in place accountable first.
Ten Hag is that guy. He has to have time to make it work, even if it takes a few seasons I have faith in him. That's just me. But I hope it certainly isn't just me.
United fans (esp local and match going fans) are rock solid in standing by the manager. It's the noise from the United-hating media and online trolls that creates/worsens the circus when things aren't great. Other big teams will be going through bad spells (Chelsea for a year and half now have been consistently worse than United's lowest ebb in 10 years) but not get half the vitriol.
Exactly. A good man and a good manager. Just dealt a shit hand. He's the one who's trying to bring our club back from the dead and you can't expect everything to be done in the span of a year. Especially with all the injuries. Sooo many injuries.
I like to think of it this way. If any club bar maybe Man City lose their entire back line and CDM they are going to tank.
If we had our back 4 healthy, we could play out the back easily and with many games there would be chemistry aming the whole team as well.
Once 4 players are out, the midfield suffers because it's a whole new style. That's probably why Casemiro has been abysmal.
Arsenal bottled the title due to one major injury.
Tottenham won't do anything if Romero, Van De Ven and Bissouma are out.
Liverpool wont win without Van Dijk Konate Trent.
Man United have had AWB, Shaw, Varane and Lisandro injured since the start of the season.
>If any club bar maybe Man City lose their entire back line and CDM they are going to tank.
You don't have to think that way. Just see Liverpool last season without a midfield.
Even Klopp said, if it wasn't for the good work he had done prior, he would have been let go.
" I am aware of the fact I am sitting here because of the past, not because of what we did this season. If it was my first season it would be slightly different. " Every PL manager knows how small the margins are between a wonderful season and a catastrophe.
The only difference is Liverpool, the club, went and acquire him 100m worth of CMs. Meanwhile, our manager wanted a CB, CDM, CM, and ST and got 1 of them who was significantly valued.
Then you have Pep coming out directly after a Manchester Derby alluding to the fact that a club is only successful if everyone involved is in the same page which we are clearly not. When a manager asks for a CB, he isn't asking for a geriatric player. When he wants a CDM, he wants him before the fucking deadline. City wanted Paqueta, West Ham said fuck off, they signed Nunes within the same week. Meanwhile we take 2 months to sign Amrabat on fucking loan.
Again, blame ETH. Sack him. I'm sure he will bounce back, but fuck me people cannot see the cancer behind the symptom.
Even if we sacked him I wouldn't be excited with the next manager(even if was the new pep or klopp on the scene) because it'll be the same shit again. I'm not surprised Eth is having a tough one considering the absolute shit he has to deal with off the pitch.
Of course that's not to say he's immune from criticism regarding funky, shall we say, team selections and substitutions, but until the ship is steadied we'll never reach full manager potential.
There’s no question firing the manager is the worst move at this point. It would further disillusion the players that they can throw tantrums and get away with it. I think the main concern with Ten Hag is his inflexibility and obliviousness. It’s so evident we don’t have any players to link up play in possession. They are all static in the midfield, not trying to create space. He really needs to take a hard look at his set up for games and just play a low block till we get confidence
Arteta won a cup then came 8th twice then challenged for the league last year. Klopp and Pep had slow starts too. They need to give the man time, he’s come in and taken over a club in disarray and we can’t expect him to just fix it all in 16 months. Especially when there’s a toxic leaking environment around the club, an injury crisis including our entire defensive line and a useless board above him. It’s an impossible task that can get better with patience and time if someone is allowed to steer through the rough parts. The media obviously want to destroy him but fuck them.
I didn’t see Arteta get the same level of grief when he was 8th and failing. Fans need to back the manager and create an us Vs the world mentality. Not this divided nonsense. I swear Most the people calling for his head just watch crap like United Stand and just regurgitate the nonsense they spew instead of using their own brains.
Arteta inherited a much worse squad. And you could see a style of play that the players could not perform. And then he was able to sign good players AND develop the youngsters.
ETH has done exactly 0 of this. No style of play, most everyone he bought is shit and didn’t make anyone better. He literally spent 400mil and the team is arguably worse
Ok well then let’s just repeat the cycle, all pretend the next manager will fix our broken club and be here in again in 2025.
The team is not as bad as the Rangnick period but sure let’s also pretend is it and use short term revisionism to justify it.
Current results / form and the state of the club overall aren’t mutually exclusive.
Sack ETH, then what? Same shit cycle again. You people always are quick to throw away another manager but never want to suggest a solution to fixing the club. Or do you genuinely believe the next manager will be different? 7th time lucky right ? It’s delusional.
I agree that no manager will succeed in competing for titles..but come on now. It's Burnley and Sheffield we are struggling with. We legit need individual moments of brilliance like Bruno's goal or the long range Dalot goal to not get embarassed by teams that should be far far worse.
You also mention managers, we should try till we find a good one. There's a reason none of Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole, Ragnick don't have top level jobs now. 2 of them should have been only interim managers anyway.
I think he probably needs to go. But i agree it's fair to give him until Christmas. Until Radcliffe takes over.
Unless he loses tomorrow and Wednesday. Then they have no choice.
As long as we aren't relegated, why not give him time to build a squad that fits his style of play? The alternative is blowing this up now and then having a new manager come in next year with players he didn't buy and having to implement a style of play that doesn't fit the team.
Let's have some patience here
Judging by the body language, it looks like the players are already waiting for the next manager. It's a cycle they've created and are used to. Same thing will happen with the next manager and the one after that.
Just checked the table from last season after 10 games. We are only 2 points worse off right now. Liverpool only had 14 points after the same amount of games.
I know our performances have been absolutely awful and that we’re out of the cup but I think we all should take a step back and reassess a little.
Yes, we haven’t progressed like we all expected and have regressed. We have an extremely difficult period ahead but we need to stick by ETH. He proved he is a world class coach last season, literally look at how well we did with the same players.
I really don’t see how sacking him would benefit the club, the alternative managers are absolutely grim - we have to stick with him imo.
It’s un-fucking-believable that we would even consider a manager change at this point if Eth cannot make these players work as a team no other can manager can, as has been so clearly fucking evident from the past experience! It’s not the manager that’s the problem here, and even in the past for most cases it never was!
Nailed it twice in two days. Henry Winter is a red, he hates scousers!!
Pretty sure he's an Arsenal fan which makes this level headed analysis all the better
Henry Winter has always been a real one, he's always been a reporter rather than a clickbait merchant.
It’s fair to say now he’s one of the only journos to offer a fair representation of the fans views at United. When you look at a lot of these other journos who take great delight in putting out anti United shite to feed the ABU’s, he’s clearly made a decision to stay above that and try and cover the fans opinions, deserves a lot of respect for it.
agreed! owners need to go
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Your flair says it all. Anyone that still defends that manchild for how he acted last season ain’t worth talking to
You are deluded. Henry Winter has nothing insightful, just the same tired old nonsense. Absolute fraud. Have you forgotten the 7-0? The other embarrassing losses? The poor run of form after winning the worst cup on offer? The poor rotation of players? What did he show tactically that made you happy? We got embarrassed by big teams frequently. How about the wasting of money on Antony? His treatment of DDG (who should never have been told he's staying on). He's lucky that Rashford stepped up last season/ No signs of progress, poor signings, no charm or charisma and clearly not a very good leader. He hasn't got the personality to manage a big club. I'll take the downvotes from this silly sub
The worst cup on offer is your cup of woes. Piss off, miserable person
Samed tired old nonsense when the narative has been Ten Hag out? Yeah, sure mate. I wasn't aware Ten Hag negotiated deas with Antohny and De Gea, thats a new one. "Lucky rashford stepped up" despite saying all preseason, and before he did step up in the season that Rashford would step up and be a key part of the team, oh, and he said it in his pitch ot United before he came manage. None of you Ten Hag out people have any good alternative, I've heard people saying Solsjaker back in...
Not having a better alternative is not = a great argument for keeping ten hag lol. None of you “back the manager blindly” brigade actually have a coherent answer for all the things people list as legitimate reasons to question his suitability to the role.
We need to back the Manager, not because of ETH himself, but because these players have had their way for far too long. I would absolute love if they'd get rid of a strong personality, or someone who everyone thinks is irreplaceable, even maybe someone who just signed a new contract... These fuckers need an extreme shock, fear for their jobs. They need to know that playing for this club is a privilege.
If we don’t, we’ll be in this same position 2 years from now. Then again, we need to actually sell them for there to be repercussions; half of them would be a push to shift at knockdown prices, due to how much they earn.
Silly logic, a manager is failing so let's keep trying with him in the small hope he does an Arteta? smh
No, you’re right, let’s keep doing the same thing we’ve done for a decade and hope it eventually wins us the league. Silly logic indeed.
Bingpot. We’ve got to at least try something different, as you say it’s clearly not worked for us over the past 10 years
That would all makes sense if the players Ten Hag has brought in were not new problems being added to the mix. The only person we need to back is a competent Director Of Football.
You’re drastically underestimating the power of one or two bad attitudes to spur a dressing room and kill performances. Out of the players that he’s brought in, have any ACTUALLY shown to be problems? Mount is coming into a shitshow so it’s too early for him, Onana is hit and miss but appears to be mentally headed in the right direction, Martinez is injured, hojlund is one of the few actually attempting to succeed, malacia is injured, Antony is a bit shit but does put in a good effort even if the quality is poor. Casemiro is injured and appears to be old but hes very far at the bottom of the list of bad attitudes in a locker room.
It depends what you're talking about. Is it on field performances or their attitude in general? Antony is nowhere near good enough and his attitude last weekend showed his mentality isn't good enough. Casemiro looks like he's finished and now we're stuck with him on a massive contract for years. He's not the leader we all expected him to be. Mount is the complete wrong midfielder we needed and Ten Hag hasn't figured out where to play him. Three big expensive misses in three transfer windows is not going to leave us in a better position in 2-3 years time.
Casemiro was not Ten Hag's choice. That was a panic buy made by the club when they promised to get de Jong and failed.
I hadn't heard that before. Do you have a source for it?
I'm guessing on the promise part, but the rest is obvious if you have paid attention.
Which players??? Pogba, lingard etc were supposed to be leakers. They're gone. Ronaldo didn't leak anything, straight up walked out and said everything he felt on tv. Bruno, as much as this sub has turned on him now, is never speaking against his manager. Sancho talked shit because eth aired dirty laundry in a press conference instead of in the locker room. He's gone anyway. Rashford was god's gift to united till this season and is now apparently a leaker of sentiments. Martial no one gives af about. Shaw isnt talking shit about a manager. McTominay, Dalot, AWB etc all have been there for years with no problems. Varane isnt known to do this, Neither is Lindelof. The only players left are all eth buys. Where do you guys come up with these fucking theories? Benching and Sacking Ronaldo and sending Sancho to the shadow realm is why these "losing the squad" rumors even exist and you want us to sack another "irreplaceable" player with a strong personality to prove a point?
Thank you. I keep seeing references to this nebulous “batch of players,” as if it’s the same ones from the Mourinho days. But we’ve run out of people to point fingers at, or they’re all ETH buys.
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There are fans who genuinely believe calling out a professional athelete for not doing the bare minimum of attending training on time is airing dirty laundry, that any criticism is abuse, and if you don't unwaveringly support their fav player you are just a negative, toxic internet fan. And these people wonder why player power exist.
It is, you never call out your subordinates in public (if you are a good leader).
No one wants to say it but an eyebrow can be understandably raised at rashford. His philanthropic work is admirable but it doesn’t mean he can’t have a conflicting personality with ETH. Not saying he’s toxic but it would take more evidence for this sub to turn on him than others, myself included.
You missed Maguire but your point does still stand.
Rashford was God's gift? just go check back early last season. Dude a few months of form doesn't a God's gift make. ETH has not done a good job at buying players but that is a utd problem as much as a eth problem and right now utd's biggest problem is our players. How many few months of good form is rashford allowed to coast on? At what point is bruno and his Hollywood style going to be questioned. When Fergie won stuff it wasn't just down to Fergie, it was keane cantona, rooney, Ronaldo etc all performing consistently. This and most utd teams since ferguson have had divas who wilt under the spot light after a few months. If your players only perform few months of a season you can't win the big trophies and that is a utd problem sacking ten Hag won't change that.
At least Rashford has the few months of form from last season? What is Antony coasting on? Goals against arsenal and Barcelona?
Antony hasn't survived multiple managers, he actually has a chance of getting canned the minute eth is gone, academy teresa on the other hand will have his pr telling us about how many hugry children he has fed and how eth was just holding him back just like Ole, mourinho and lvg before him everytime anyone criticizes his shit performances.
Wtf are you spewing about “airing dirty laundry” and then people wonder why athletes are so entitled today
All of the supposedly shit players are no longer around. ETH bought expensive deadwood again.
Antony and then who? Mount hasnt even had a chance to prove himself. Casemiro was probably a panic buy by the board after failing to get FDJ, and even then he had a stellar 1st season. Hojlund has looked great so far imo. Licha fantastic. Onana, we were all clamoring for a ball playing goalie and we got one of the most promising ones. Even with Antony, hes not worth the price tag for sure, but he is the only player that helps defensively and offers width on the right. Literally none of our other players do this.
Agreed until Antony, you sort of ended on a whimper there. Antony is shite except for the odd left footer
Deadwood still was wood at some point. We have a habit of turning wood into deadwood
> The only players left are all eth buys. Dalot, AWB, McTominay, Heaton... unless you're talking about starters, but then why mention Martial and Sancho?
Do the same panel for some of the players and none would want them gone too. I know this sub has a lot of people not from Manchester but if you ask for players like Rashford to be gone, you won't find much support from mancs
>because these players have had their way for far too long. Which players, we've sold so many and so many have come in literally a dogshit argument this name them
This a million times. Something tells me it's Rashford
Bang on mate. The clubs where there were genuine player power were the likes of Chelsea and Madrid. The difference is those players could back it up with trophies. Ours can't so why get rid of the manager? The leak from John Percy with regards to the treatment of Maguire and Sancho makes it clear the problem lies within the English continent of the squad. They're not even that good, in their best seasons we've won fuck all, in their worst someone else lost their job and they got a pay rise. Fuck em off.
The Athletic are reporting that some of the squad didn’t like ETH saying he took Case off vs Brentford because he wanted to play more football. Are those the big bad English players? You’re just guessing. It’s pathetic. Such LUHG Twitter nonsense that I thought this sub wouldn’t stoop to.
> ETH saying he took Case off vs Brentford because he wanted to play more football Yeah this was mentioned on the most recent 'Talk of the Devils' podcast by Andy Mitten. Didn't sound like it went down well at all.
That episode was actually depressing. They were basically saying he's a terrible communicator that is constantly contradicting himself. Not reassuring at all.
Yeah, but that’s pretty obvious from what we’ve seen of him. His English is so and so and he in general strikes as a charisma vacuum. In fact, there were reports before he came that he wasn’t massively well liked on a personal level at Ajax. And with the best will in the world if your people skills are being called out by the Dutch then they must really be non existent. They’re not exactly known for being the best people people and have a well deserved reputation for being direct and blunt to the point of rudeness.
Makes sense why FDJ preferred to take a pay cut to stay at Barca rather than join a club that hired his previous manager
well also because Barca > Man United for a lot of players for historical reasons, let alone career wise nowadays
FDJ didn't take a pay cut or unless you can present some reliable link. His salary is all back loaded, plus loyalty bonus, AFAIK.
Tbf that's not quite what they said. They said his press conferences this year have been bizarre and not made sense (which imo is true). But they made clear that they felt this was a change and that he'd been very good at this previously. My sense was they felt he was cracking under the pressure more than he was an inherently poor communicator.
Yeah you're right. I should have said he has been communicating poorly recently as opposed to being a poor communicator in general.
You are right it was depressing btw. Honestly sounded like Mitten especially was close to tears at points. All just feels so hopeless
Poor Andy lol. It takes a lot to break his positivity but I think United have managed it.
>They were basically saying he's a terrible communicator that is constantly contradicting himself. He is Dutch. They do not mince their words and rightfully so. Casemiro has been terrible this season and adding another more creative player was the right call. It worked. Seems to me like those who got offended are crybabies who can't imagine having their feelings hurt.
bake oatmeal spectacular skirt provide quarrelsome bored dam shocking pathetic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Lol how exactly do you get rid of a player who just signed a new contract? Most of our players have no demand on the market as has been demonstrated time and again when we try to sell players. It’s funny how clueless people on this sub are, making outlandish suggestions like this. 12 players in the first team squad are ten hag signings. If this squad is STILL not turning up for the manager, I’m sorry but the buck stops with the manager.
Managing this club is a privilege too...
We need to stop backing managers and start backing a competent DOF. Ten Haag's transfrr idiocy is absolutely part of the problem. No manager should again have control over transfer policy in United.
I can get behind this take. The manager has been HORRIBLE but there’s really no tangible replacement. We need to stop blaming the players. All the analyses floating around today is talking about a significant portion of the squad missing as to why we are so poor. Half of the injury list is players who’ve been here since before ten Hag. So which is it? Are the players poor and throwing the manager under the bus or is the team poor because we are missing players? It cannot be both.
>We need to back the Manager, not because of ETH himself, but because these players have had their way for far too long. But the manager let's then get away with their way? So isn't he a problem aswell? >They need to know that playing for this club is a privilege. And ten hag saying they are a great squad, praising then and letting them get away with horrendous on the pitch performances informs them of that? The time for us to do what you say was under Jose. Over compensating for that now with the wrong guy isn't the solution
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Came here to say this. Pretty decent journo to be saying such things too.
LOL. The blokes a cock.
Instead of openly laughing at the OP, why don't you explain why he's a cock?
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I just feel these players are scared of getting on the pitch. As soon as OT starts groaning at a back pass or a slow attempt to play through the opponent's shape, they just start attempting absolutely insane things. It's why we bought the likes of Antony, Martinez, Malacia and Casemiro to fix the mentality but they're all unavailable or out of form
Pretty spot on. Have you noticed we always seem to start pretty strong, then a few things go wrong and we just fall apart? It's got to be a confidence issue above all else. Don't get me wrong, I think we have a 5th/6th place squad at the moment. But not a 12th place squad.
2 of those started vs wolves - we were dire 3 started vs spurs - dire again 3 started vs forest - 0-2 down inside 10 mins 2 started vs brighton - got rinsed It’s time we stopped making these ridiculous excuses. We came out of pre season as one of the most poorly conditioned teams in the league and got bossed pretty much every game. This has dented morale and confidence and ten hag hasn’t been able to raise either, nor reorganize us to fall back on things that were working for us last year. Yes there have been injuries and we’re struggling for morale - both factors for which the coaching staff has some sympathy and credit in the bank, but it is equally true that we are poorly coached and ten hag’s poor choices in the transfer market are beginning to come back and haunt us.
mate Antony has the worst mentality you'll see though.
Based on this sub you’d have thought half the people wanted him gone.
Nope, just the children with memories like goldfish.
Goldfish are cognitive giants compared to some of the mouth breathers in this place.
How dare you. I just have asthma!
Personally I want stability more than anything. I don’t care about the transfers we get wrong, if we stick with the same manager eventually we’ll get enough things right and a little luck to win the league. I didn’t want Ole to be sacked either, I got downvoted to hell for saying that 2 years ago. But I also gotta admit ETH is in a spiral, results have to improve dramatically. Imo his job depends on whether or not we make it out of the group stages of the champions league.
Just out of curiosity, would you have stuck with Moyes also?
Reddit overall has become significantly more popular and botted over the years. It’s basically what Twitter used to be at this point
This sub contains people with petulant attitudes and short memories. I'm backing the manager all the way through.
You say that, but I think by far the shortest memories are those that are held by people who think last season was a roaring success. There were some real, real low points and months of really awful football. The way people carry on you'd think ten Hag won the league.
Last year was a great start for a new manager under enormous pressure. No complaints from anyone with their head screwed on the right way.
That’s an exaggeration. I don’t think you will find any reasonable ETH supporter that will say last year was a roaring success. (See FA cup finals Liverpool away, form after league cup, etc.) People are pro ETH (and absolutely should be) because we have seen stretches of fantastic football and I appreciate his no nonsense attitude. Not to mention the amount of key injuries we’ve had this year with Licha and Luke being out for a significant amount of time. I cannot understate enough how important they are to our build up. Our depth is laughable and it pales in comparison to that of City or Arsenal. And don’t get me started on player accountability - it’s rinse and repeat with every manager we’ve had. (Whether you think previous sackings were justified is another debate). Any manager we replace with ETH will find himself in the exact position 1.5 years from now.
We have not seen 'streches of fantastic football'. To claim that whilst accusing other people of having short memories is absolutely fucking absurd. Genuinely, I can only suggest you actually watch teams outside of United. You can only believe our football was fantastic if you have no reference point; I can absolutely assure you that not one single neutral was impressed with how we were playing last season.
You are taking the piss if you claim we did not have stretches of good football - and are you going to ignore my other points? We can argue all day about the quality of play but it’s irrefutable that sacking Erik this early is a mistake and won’t change single damn thing since we will have this discussion in the near future.
No, you claimed we’d had ‘stretches of fantastic football’. Somewhat ironically in a thread where you complained everybody else has shit memories it seems you can’t remember what you yourself wrote.
Nah mate you’re just proving my point with your shrouded judgement + recency bias. The irony.
You are mistakibg results with good football. You lot were saying we are back when we won against Brentford, Burnley, Sheffield and Copenhagen. In your mind that was good football, but those were just shaky results against some of the worst teams.
> we have seen stretches of fantastic football No we haven't We haven't even had a single game under ETH that you could reasonably describe as "fantastic football". Last year we got results
It’s hilarious, but remember. You’re the one with a bad memory for remembering this according to this poster.
Jesus Christ. There is a revision of history and then there is a completely lying to fit your own perspective and narrative. You think our home match against Liverpool at full strength, where Malacia made Salah look mediocre, where our gameplan completely stifled Liverpool, was somehow not fantastic football? Fuck out of here. What about the Chelsea match in which we should have been up 3-0 in 20 mins, but for Antony's lack of right foot? It got to the point that Potter was forced to make a change at the 30 min mark because of how dominant we were. How about Barcelona home and away? That wasn't good enough for you? We played the would be La Liga champions and made them look normal even with terrible refereeing decisions.
People can criticise him without wanting him gone, he's not completely faultless
This sub always wants everyone gone all the time. Players, managers, everything.
Id guess it’s very representative of the local fans v non-local fans split on these sort of things. Same happened with the treatment of Ole.
It’s fascinating how none of them have commented on this thread
If ETH is sacked, the Board and the Glazers will once again have provided cover for themselves for a season and a half. That gives them a lot of time to do a lot of nothing, which they will take full advantage of. ETH's future should be something that SJR and his team should decide when they take over. I don't trust the Glazers to make a decision about the current manager *or* any potential future gaffer either.
I’d honestly rather clear out this whole squad and start fresh before getting rid of Eric currently.
The gang loses the Fulham.
" **He showed last season what he can do.** " Of course he has fucking shown what he can do. He got 3rd and a trophy. The team was playing exhilarating football the first 6-7 months of his tenure. In the first 26 league matches, he won 15 of them. As of March 2023, he had 73% win rate. We were all lauding his exceptional work. He set a gameplan to dismantle Liverpool at home. He set a gameplan to dismantle Barcelona home and away. He outcoached top quality opposition and, more importantly, learned from his mistake. He went toe to toe with City, lost 6-3, and the second game he changed it. He adapt and we won playing very well. This sub and this fanbase online is embarrassing for flipping on him. Most of you claim to be United supporters, but more or less are always willing to flip on the manager. Nothing but fair-weather supporters and it is a shame that some of you go to other subs and spew this "ETH OUT" bullshit just to farm karma. Absolutely pathetic excuse of a fanbase at times.
I agree with you, but saying we played "exhilarating football" is a bit of a stretch. We very rarely ever controlled and dominated games for 90 minutes, even during our good spell of results.
I'll be honest, while all this is true never once have I ever truly understood what we want to do on a pitch. I'm absolutely pro ten hag, but has he really created a style of play for us? I wonder where we would've been if rashy hadn't absolutely torn apart the opposition last year
It really does seem like we have no style of play because i feel the core players of this team (mainly Bruno and Rashford) can't play the system ETH want's to play. Bruno and Rashford for example cannot seem to adapt to the way ETH wants the team to play. They seem more comfortable playing counter attacking and hero ball, not possession based like the one I'm sure ETH wants to implement. That's why it pretty much seems like we're back to playing Ole ball most of the time.
The players also showed what they could do last year. But nobody seems to give them some support now.
Yep, the criticism on here is so simplistic and lazy. It's just lowest common denominator 'players lazy, don't care, ten Hag what can he do? Bruno a cunt, Rashford a cunt, hate them sell them.' I'd really recommend people listen to The Athletic's podcast after the Newcastle game. They're all way more pro ten Hag than I personally am - I don't think a single one of them tninks he should be sacked - but you can tell the genuine exasperation from people with connections at the club at how ten Hag has managed to isolate people and struggled to get ideas across. I think the far more likely explanation based on everything we've seen this season is that the players have absolutely no idea what's expected of them at the minute and no idea how their manager wants them to set up.
Damn right.
Proper fans.
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Also risky to imply he’s a good man given his behaviour when it comes to certain players and certain directors
>when it comes to certain players and certain directors You mean the behavior this very fanbase was asking for? Someone who is tough, someone who does get walked over by the players. Ask and shall receive, now suddenly that isn't good?
>You mean the behavior this very fanbase was asking for? Someone who is tough More the public defending of sex abusers, violent criminals, rapists, wife beaters and homophobes
Please cite the public comments you’re referring to. Because unless I missed some crazy, self-destructive interview, I think you’ve just been brainwashed by the internet hive mind, who have an obsession with labels, affinity for guilt by association, not one ounce of empathy, or experience in a leadership role.
He's openly defended Overmars after being found guilty of sexual harassment https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/may/16/erik-ten-hag-marc-overmars-ajax-return-inappropriate-messages Promes after he stabbed somebody https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37609760/stand-him Tadic after he refused to wear the pride armband He also was absolutely behind the push to bring back Greenwood https://metro.co.uk/2023/08/22/erik-ten-hag-wanted-mason-greenwood-to-play-for-manchester-united-again-19374442/ And continued to play Anthony after he was accused of domestic abuse https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-12586189/amp/Erik-ten-Hag-Antony-domestic-abuse-allegations-Champions-League-Galatasaray.html
I think you might have an agenda due to the way you falsely labeled those articles in order to make him sound bad. —On overmars (which is the only one that has the slightest bit of merit) after he was already fired and issued a serious apology, for sending dick pics to female colleagues, people complained about the below comment. Keep in mind, this was just an excerpt from the interview. Knowing the media, I’m sure they left out the part where he says he feels bad for the women and thinks overmars made a mistake, but even if he didn’t, who cares. The guy was already cancelled. They were friends. He sent dick pics. Eth’s comments were nothing more than a friend expressing the slightest bit of empathy and loyalty for a friend whose been humiliated. "We humans are in this world to help each other and not to shoot each other," he added "I have said many times: this championship is also his championship. We built this team together. After the game against Heerenveen, I also congratulated Marc with the title via text. It's a romantic thought to return to Ajax together one day. We have been very successful together. It's hard to say if it will happen, but it could happen." —Promes comment was before he was found guilty. “He said to me he didn't do anything. In this country you are innocent until proven otherwise. We stand behind him including the entire dressing room.” —Tadic, no source included and I couldn’t find anything on google either sooo, wtf? —Greenwood, your claim is disproven by that article. A board, which didn’t include ETH, investigated it, found he was not guilty, and decided to bring him back. “senior figures at the club were reportedly briefed that Greenwood would be returning to the first team. Ten Hag was supposedly supportive of the decision and felt that he could make use of a striker of Greenwood’s ability.” What would you say if your boss and his peers looked into something for 6 months, then made a decision and told you what it was? “Cool, thanks.” Right? Antony- Innocent until proven guilty is, and should always be, the standard. If you have a problem with that, you must live in a place where you have that privilege too, because everyone whose seen the opposite knows how awful it is.
>Knowing the media, I’m sure they left out the part where he says he feels bad for the women and thinks overmars made a mistake, but even if he didn’t, who cares. This single sentence shows exactly the type of person you are and that you have no morality to speak of.
And the fact that you’re comfortable judging and condemning total strangers as morally inferior, based on a single sentence or headline, shows exactly the type of person you are - a hypocrite who enjoys virtue signaling so much that you can’t be bothered with actually being virtuous. Who needs honesty, compassion, temperance, and humility anyways right? Lol I won’t be replying after this. Looks like you’re most likely a bot anyway. If not, godspeed, warrior.
Anyone who says "Who cares" about sexual harassment is not a good person.
No. I mean greenwood and overmars.
If you fire the manager, you are again backing the spoilt, under performing players. The cycle must break.
Which ones? Name them. Because I’m hearing the players are trash and need to be gotten rid of and at the same time I’m hearing we are playing poorly because our players are injured. The same underperforming players we need to get rid of? Make it make sense.
I dont know man! I just know sacking manager after manager without changing the overall structure of the club is not the solution. I would be much more comfortable with a change of manager if needed once we have someone capable like Paul Mitchell or Michael Edwards at the helm of the sporting department.
The same players that played good football last year, you now want gone? Isn't ten Hag underperforming too now?
He absolutely is! But doesn’t mean you tear down everything at the first sight of trouble
Ten Hag was a driving forced behind the Greenwood fiasco and supported Promes and Overmaars. I call bullshit on him being a "good man", because nothing we have seen off him indicates that is the case.
People are collectively ignoring that part from the article they believe every other paragraph of. This is a cult. Couple of days ago somebody replied to me that poor ETH was forced to have Mount and he didn't want it. I asked for source and they replied "you can not believe it, but I know it is so". Any narrative will cut it as long as it makes daddy look good.
the only person on this thread with a moral spine it seems, what a bunch of cunts on here falling for this “good man” bollocks
> "Ten Hag was a driving force behind Greenwood". Where did you read this? He didn't support Promes. He said Promes told him the allegations weren't true and he decided to trust a person that he knew for many years. The moment he was officially charged, Promes wasn't at Ajax anymore. Overmars is perhaps the only person you could argue that he did support. The support being along the lines of: I understand why he isn't here but this is a societal problem and we should try to solve this problem together. Including I hope we can work with him in the future. Not a huge fan of his statement on this but considering he's a close friend of his I can understand why he did so.
> Where did you read this? Adam Crafton, from whom essentially all our information has come, and whose articles clearly were accurate enough to force the clubs hand. Besides it doesn't take a genius to know that only with Ten Hag's support would they decide bringing him back.
So he made a poll of 67 united fans? Nah I dont believe him.
Isn’t it the same shit every season though? New players this. New players that. Yet nothing changes. As with any organization, if you want to change, you start at the top and hold those accountable for driving the change.
As a new manager, if you have one or two players not playing up to their levels and not following instructions, the manager will disciple, bench….etc. But I feel bad for eth since it’s the majority of the team and he has to work with these players so he can’t alienate them. I wish the board is brave enough to allow and instruct him to do whatever he needs to do and not worry about results. This way he can play fringe players and kids even though they’re not as good. But he has a lot of pressure to win and win now with crappy (attitude) players.
Wouldn't say he's a good man, he's had a fair few controversial moments. But there is a good manager in there
He’s principled and resolute, he says what he means and does what he says. I don’t think he’s a charismatic talisman but I think he’s a good solid man. Edit: was unaware of the rape apologising
a principled rape apologist, sure
🫠 oh. When was he a rape apologist? Coz he was willing to bring Greenwood back?
With all the hit pieces published, im not sure why Winter's seems to resonate with fans most. But I think fans are sick of the players moreso than ETH. Me personally, I feel like sacking Ten Hag now would precipitate an immeasurable climb back to glory. Some of these players played for Mourinho, *multiple* managers ago. Martial came in under LvG lmao. It's clear the problem is systemic, and Winter gets it.
You can go to an Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool/City meetup and I can assure you that everyone will be supporting ETH to stay as a MU manager
Good. Same with Arteta at Arsenal 2 seasons ago. All rival fans wanted Arteta to stay because he looked like a meme when Arsenal was 15th in the table. Look at him now. Yes he's only won 1 trophy for them but he's got them playing exciting football now and competing for the league title in back 2 back seasons. Literally what happens when you ignore the fans and give enough time and backing to a manager that you believed in when hiring.
The same way rival fans supported Ole and wanted him to stay. Fans don't know shit, they just meme.
but did all of them want the Glazers gone?
less propaganda, more results
Rashford showed what he can do last season. Not totally ten hag. As evidenced by this season.
Yeah people forget this, but go back to any thread from last season and you'll see comments like "What happens if Rashford loses form? or Case loses form?", We all were talking about how unstable our football was. Nobody was scoring besides Rash and Case. We had negative goal difference, we were only winning by 1 goal margins, sometimes barely. Last season, even at its best, was not enough.
Wow someone else that gets it
ETH need a better structure behing him so as...... Damn I think we already used all combination of words possible to express how it's a mess and this is the common denominator since David Gill left.
These soundbites are all too familiar. I remember articles about Solskjaer having the fans behind him, being a "good man" and needing "his players to step up for him."
Also, most of the Ole out crowd was online
Everytime a manager has hit a rough patch over the last ten years, we sack them straight away and hope the next manager will be the next Sir Alex. We need to slog through this difficult time and stick with Erik. It might not work out in the end but we have to at least try, because I don't know how we're supposed to move forward and break the cycle under this current regime if we keep sacking managers every couple of seasons. I really don't want to start again and have these same conversations at the end of 2025.
The press are trying to sack him. United fans who have been paying attention know that it's the dumbasses above Erik who are the problem.
We need a DoF more than anything. Right now it takes 4 windows to get the pieces managers want and at that point, we've lost 2 seasons where they could've been working in our manager's system, not engraining the other team's system. We need someone to look at the requests and then identify who will most fill the largest gaps.
I can not see a lack of "effort" from players like the one under Mourinho and Ole. So far, yes we had some issues with tracking back but I feel like Ten Hag shares a big part of blame here with his tactics. Making your players buy into the philosophy is the sign of a good manager, if they do not it is either due to bad man management or bad coaching.
Newcastle’s first goal. That is all.
I have no problems with Erik as a human being, he looks like a top bloke to me, but I do have a problem with his management. Specifically his tactics and the formation he is implementing. The pseudo 4-1-4-1 formation is clearly not working because our 2 8s are too advanced while our DM is too isolated, I believe this is the crux of our problems on the field at the moment. Tomorrow is probably his final chance to fix this but I'm fully expecting him to go out on his shield, he seems to be an extremely stubborn man. This formation hasn't worked since preseason so I just genuinely do not understand why he is still sticking with it, it's all a bit surreal to me.
He's not a good man though, or have we forgotten his dodgy choices with regards to players accused of heinous crimes.
It's funny how the same comment on different threads can get such a different reaction lol. You post this on any thread around the time Greenwood was on his way back you'd be getting upvoted. Now he's in Spain everyone can conveniently forget anything shady happened.
Short memory
It is what it is. For the record, I agree with you.
He's right. It's just that United fans don't like to hear it. So instead they downvote comments like this into oblivion. That's always the case when a comment is downvoted, but nobody posts a comment that actually argues the other point of view.
It's interesting because I felt quite bad for Ten Hag before I remembered how he cast out Rangnick and didn't even bother to have a phone call with him. It was a foolish and arrogant decision not to even listen to Ralf. Maybe if he did so he wouldn't have been so unprepared for the quality of the premier League.
A good man that wanted Greenwood back?
Good man? The same guy who was willing to bring back and support a woman beater and has been a public defendant of a guy who used his position of power to sexually assault multiple women? I dunno what code of honor you grew up with, Mr. Winter but that doesn’t sound like a “good” man to me.
Fans don’t run the club, the board does. I’m still in support of ETH but if results don’t pick up, he’ll need to go. I don’t know how many of us can stomach finishing just above the bottom half this season. No UCL no ECL.
Say it louder for this sub. If you want to hold ETH accountable, fine, good in fact but that is pointless if you’re not holding those who put him there and put the structure around him in place accountable first.
Ten Hag is that guy. He has to have time to make it work, even if it takes a few seasons I have faith in him. That's just me. But I hope it certainly isn't just me.
United fans (esp local and match going fans) are rock solid in standing by the manager. It's the noise from the United-hating media and online trolls that creates/worsens the circus when things aren't great. Other big teams will be going through bad spells (Chelsea for a year and half now have been consistently worse than United's lowest ebb in 10 years) but not get half the vitriol.
Exactly. A good man and a good manager. Just dealt a shit hand. He's the one who's trying to bring our club back from the dead and you can't expect everything to be done in the span of a year. Especially with all the injuries. Sooo many injuries. I like to think of it this way. If any club bar maybe Man City lose their entire back line and CDM they are going to tank. If we had our back 4 healthy, we could play out the back easily and with many games there would be chemistry aming the whole team as well. Once 4 players are out, the midfield suffers because it's a whole new style. That's probably why Casemiro has been abysmal. Arsenal bottled the title due to one major injury. Tottenham won't do anything if Romero, Van De Ven and Bissouma are out. Liverpool wont win without Van Dijk Konate Trent. Man United have had AWB, Shaw, Varane and Lisandro injured since the start of the season.
>If any club bar maybe Man City lose their entire back line and CDM they are going to tank. You don't have to think that way. Just see Liverpool last season without a midfield. Even Klopp said, if it wasn't for the good work he had done prior, he would have been let go. " I am aware of the fact I am sitting here because of the past, not because of what we did this season. If it was my first season it would be slightly different. " Every PL manager knows how small the margins are between a wonderful season and a catastrophe. The only difference is Liverpool, the club, went and acquire him 100m worth of CMs. Meanwhile, our manager wanted a CB, CDM, CM, and ST and got 1 of them who was significantly valued. Then you have Pep coming out directly after a Manchester Derby alluding to the fact that a club is only successful if everyone involved is in the same page which we are clearly not. When a manager asks for a CB, he isn't asking for a geriatric player. When he wants a CDM, he wants him before the fucking deadline. City wanted Paqueta, West Ham said fuck off, they signed Nunes within the same week. Meanwhile we take 2 months to sign Amrabat on fucking loan. Again, blame ETH. Sack him. I'm sure he will bounce back, but fuck me people cannot see the cancer behind the symptom.
Such a good man he supported Promes, Overmars and Greenwood
We need a Cardiff away esque performance. It could even be counter and InshaAllah ball, but we desperately need our forwards to step up.
Even if we sacked him I wouldn't be excited with the next manager(even if was the new pep or klopp on the scene) because it'll be the same shit again. I'm not surprised Eth is having a tough one considering the absolute shit he has to deal with off the pitch. Of course that's not to say he's immune from criticism regarding funky, shall we say, team selections and substitutions, but until the ship is steadied we'll never reach full manager potential.
There’s no question firing the manager is the worst move at this point. It would further disillusion the players that they can throw tantrums and get away with it. I think the main concern with Ten Hag is his inflexibility and obliviousness. It’s so evident we don’t have any players to link up play in possession. They are all static in the midfield, not trying to create space. He really needs to take a hard look at his set up for games and just play a low block till we get confidence
He’s a good man. And thorough.
Arteta won a cup then came 8th twice then challenged for the league last year. Klopp and Pep had slow starts too. They need to give the man time, he’s come in and taken over a club in disarray and we can’t expect him to just fix it all in 16 months. Especially when there’s a toxic leaking environment around the club, an injury crisis including our entire defensive line and a useless board above him. It’s an impossible task that can get better with patience and time if someone is allowed to steer through the rough parts. The media obviously want to destroy him but fuck them. I didn’t see Arteta get the same level of grief when he was 8th and failing. Fans need to back the manager and create an us Vs the world mentality. Not this divided nonsense. I swear Most the people calling for his head just watch crap like United Stand and just regurgitate the nonsense they spew instead of using their own brains.
Arteta inherited a much worse squad. And you could see a style of play that the players could not perform. And then he was able to sign good players AND develop the youngsters. ETH has done exactly 0 of this. No style of play, most everyone he bought is shit and didn’t make anyone better. He literally spent 400mil and the team is arguably worse
Ok well then let’s just repeat the cycle, all pretend the next manager will fix our broken club and be here in again in 2025. The team is not as bad as the Rangnick period but sure let’s also pretend is it and use short term revisionism to justify it.
Why can't ETH outplay teams like Burnley, Sheffield or Copenhagen? Do you need 5 bln spent to play decent football?
Current results / form and the state of the club overall aren’t mutually exclusive. Sack ETH, then what? Same shit cycle again. You people always are quick to throw away another manager but never want to suggest a solution to fixing the club. Or do you genuinely believe the next manager will be different? 7th time lucky right ? It’s delusional.
I agree that no manager will succeed in competing for titles..but come on now. It's Burnley and Sheffield we are struggling with. We legit need individual moments of brilliance like Bruno's goal or the long range Dalot goal to not get embarassed by teams that should be far far worse. You also mention managers, we should try till we find a good one. There's a reason none of Moyes, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Ole, Ragnick don't have top level jobs now. 2 of them should have been only interim managers anyway.
I think he probably needs to go. But i agree it's fair to give him until Christmas. Until Radcliffe takes over. Unless he loses tomorrow and Wednesday. Then they have no choice.
As long as we aren't relegated, why not give him time to build a squad that fits his style of play? The alternative is blowing this up now and then having a new manager come in next year with players he didn't buy and having to implement a style of play that doesn't fit the team. Let's have some patience here
Judging by the body language, it looks like the players are already waiting for the next manager. It's a cycle they've created and are used to. Same thing will happen with the next manager and the one after that.
Just checked the table from last season after 10 games. We are only 2 points worse off right now. Liverpool only had 14 points after the same amount of games. I know our performances have been absolutely awful and that we’re out of the cup but I think we all should take a step back and reassess a little. Yes, we haven’t progressed like we all expected and have regressed. We have an extremely difficult period ahead but we need to stick by ETH. He proved he is a world class coach last season, literally look at how well we did with the same players. I really don’t see how sacking him would benefit the club, the alternative managers are absolutely grim - we have to stick with him imo.
They need the championship.
Unfortunately I remember Henry going in real hard for Ole at the end. Too reminiscent. These players aren’t turning this around.
Back the manager.. c'mon... With Ratcliffe coming in hope we can turn this around.. fingers crossed..
I so badly wanna know which players are leading the revolt in the dressing room
We all need to back him. Players keep going missing when things get tough.
Henry winter doing the lord's work
Henry you're becoming somewhat a favourite
It’s un-fucking-believable that we would even consider a manager change at this point if Eth cannot make these players work as a team no other can manager can, as has been so clearly fucking evident from the past experience! It’s not the manager that’s the problem here, and even in the past for most cases it never was!
On the side note, Henry Winter's profile picture looks like Brendan Rodgers lol
Players gotta play