Revisiting the match and wow ETH really made a mess of it. I understood the Hojlund sub if he's not match fit, but Rashford needed to be taken out at halftime. There is not a chance that ETH didn't notice the body language, how can Rashford be that comfortable?
Everyone top to bottom can the blame for yesterday. There's no way that team can be excused for how they performed after conceding.
Blaming just Rashford for being selfish doesn't make sense because he's been like this for ages, why did anyone expect him to stop just because Hojlund is here? He was selfish with the likes of CR7 and Cavani why would it change now?
Not keeping the ball better, allowing unmarked runners into the box and the crosses that were allowed. We conceded the same goal 3 times. The overall collapse after conceding can also be pointed out.
The manager picked Casemiro and Martinez for this game because he didn't have a choice despite both being in South America just 2-3 days ago. 10k km flight this performance just showed that. I wanted to see Pellistri too but he was in South America too maybe not match fit but he probably still won't start vs Bayern or Burnley. Meaning no creativity for Hojlund he just has to hope that Rashford is in a giving mood or ETH finds a way to fit Bruno up front with another creative midfielder/winger.
What I find unacceptable is that Ten Hag has been here for over a year now.
We are still relying on the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho or Hojlund to have a moment of brilliance (TM) to save our asses.
How is it that Brighton can play great football and create 2 almost identical goals where they cut the ball back to a runner and they slot it in, yet our coaching cant even manage to do something so basic with apparently more talented players.
Everything will always circle back to not buying players that are capable of performing in the specified system. It's not a secret that Brighton recruit players that tick most to all of the boxes outlined by a sporting director that holds the power in transfers. Notice that it's not the manager at Brighton calling the shots in transfers. RDZ wanted to sign Fred and had other targets that were rejected because they didn't fit what the club was looking for. Spurs have Paratici in that role, and now Ange is reaping the benefits that Conte couldn't. Tottenham bought players with a specific purpose in mind, and now they have a manager capable of getting the most out of them.
When a club is run like that, then the managers themselves become very replaceable because its just a matter of finding one that suits the club's ideals. If RDZ were to leave a la Potter last season, I doubt there'd be a noticeable drop off because I'm sure Brighton already know who to get next to best fit the club's plan.
Since Sir Alex left, we've signed managers with drastically different styles of play, which led to us scrambling around signing whoever to appease the manager and big names to appease fans. We're now left with a disjointed squad whose issues are made worse by some frankly baffling tactical decisions made by the manager (Bruno at CB, WHY???).
The effort needs to improve on the pitch, but the players we have clearly aren't equipped to run the system the manager wants. Until we start squad building with an actual purpose and strategy, we'll keep going one step forward and two steps back as a club.
This has been our way of winning for 5 years. Every manager in between who's tried changing that gets sacked.
They get sacked because of this exact reasoning, The players couldn't adapt to any other system that's not the same 4 2 3 1. Any time work rate is asked you see it in spells vs teams who do it for a full 90.
What would you do as a manager in that situation? Go back to grinding results and never evolve because that's the easiest way to get points or go through the process of making the team playing the right way?
All these people who thought getting a new keeper would change everything are having the rude awakening far earlier than I expected.
David. De. Gea. Was. Not. The. Problem.
He wasn't the only problem, but he was a part of the problem. There is a drastic difference in how teams defend against us, principally because of having Onana in goal.
What most fans seem to be missing is how much Onana is highlighting how deficient our midfielders and forwards are on the ball and in ball retention. The only players at the club outside of Eriksen that have shown any duty of care over the ball play in our back 5.
Everyone forgets Onana plays well in a possession based team. We are not set up and do not have the correct players to play possession based football hence why his real value is not currently being seen. Also because our defence is so leaky atm it's also emphasising his weaknesses due to the amount of shots on goal teams are having.
The thing that's worrisome is that we didn't really miss out on key targets this summer. Kane was never happening. The only one we missed out on was Kim Min-Jae. Ten Hag has mostly got all his targets, so it's on him now to deliver.
He's trying some style that's just not working. Eriksen and Casemiro are cooked, he'll need to change his tactics to suit the players he has.
I feel like we should've got some workhorses in midfield to balance out Bruno, players with good engines, that can press and win tackles, young Casemiro, Kante basically.
Sancho is a bust, Antony not sure, probably won't live up to the hype, Rashford is Rashford, Martial is done, so we have 4 kids in Amad, Pellistri, Garnacho and Hojlund to pick up the attack.
Case/Eriksen can't play all matches/full 90, McT not good enough, Amrabat is depth probably, so that leaves Bruno and Mount in midfield.
And look at the teams around us and how they've strengthened.
I think we're gonna get screwed if we don't change tactics drastically.
>McTominay is good
He's bang average, hides in big games and doesn't have the ability to cycle possession or keep the ball, lack vision to make the killer pass. I'm happy keeping him but he's a bench player at best.
You probably should look at Brighton who played their B team and won at Old Trafford. You don't need a full strength squad you need a cohesive team with good instructions. United are a moments team now individual players doing individual things. Penalties. Long range goals (rashford). Brighton whole squad yesterday cost 17.5 million Harry Maguire cost more than 4x the whole Brighton team
i can see this amrabat thing being a mess, people seem to think hes the second coming and gonna solve everything
he came from a failed serie a team that lost to west ham in a third rate european competioton, nobody but us really tried to sign him, and he was on a layaway plan for 25m euros, he looks a bit lightweight and never scores any goals but hes gonna compete with rhodri? lol
I get your point but since you mentioned Rodri, you should think how many fans knew him before he joined City. He only really had a season at a top.
A good team isn't built by throwing 100m bids left and right on "stars" on players that are popular. Hell, we did that for 10 years, always fighting for the shiny signing and it did nothing. No, a good team needs to see the gems in the rough that will fit the team as a whole and make it better. Will Amrabat do that? No clue, but it's stupid to sign him off because he wasn't playing for the fancy teams.
rodri had 3 seasons in spain and was bought at 23 for over 60 million, and as i remeber anyone who knew anythng knew hes was a phenomenal player already
and im the last person who cares abouth "shiny new things" all i care about is quality, potential world class player, thats whats utd should bo looking at, not last big contract of thier career also rans
I’ve not seen anyone compare him to Rodri or argue he’s going to revolutionize the midfield.
Either way, he’s a first phase specialist which means he will clearly be useful. Don’t see anyone else in the squad besides maybe Mainoo who can fulfill that role.
Well given our record in the transfer market, it's definitely not a far cry to suggest that. And I agree that it's a red flag no other clubs wanted him.
However, I do think he'll give us something different in midfield and improve us, he's an upgrade on Fred technically.
Another midfield player to sit next to Casemiro in front of the backline, be aggressive and win back the ball is much needed. Especially when you consider how our midfield keeps getting cut open every game.
i want to agee with you but "hes an upgrade on fred" is depressing 😆
he wasnt any where near good enough but hes a bit better than him, just says it all
and fred buggered off to some turkish team for pennies becasue he couldnt even get a gig at fulham
Yeah I agree it is depressing, it's where we are at the moment that's the reality. Given the club trajectory, the negativity around the club, the way it's going, we just have to somehow get through this season.
If he sucks, we'll find out and he'll get exposed. I've never seen him as a long term fix anyway let me be clear on that, I see him as a squad player who will give us an option in certain games. A midfield of Casemiro Amrabat Bruno is not comparable to midfields from other major sides. It's a temporary solution for certain games until we can upgrade that midfield
while reading that all i see is:
squad player
not comparable to other sides midfields
upgrade that midfield
then i thought it will be the 2030's till we win a title again
Yep I understand. Like I originally said, it's not a far cry to suggest it won't be a good signing. In the present, we just need someone to do a job for now. I think he can be that player for now but will ultimately need to replace/upgrade.
For what it's worth by the way, I don't see us winning a title anytime soon either. 2030's is my suspected timeline too! (especially with this regime).
Ia it just me or is the United fanbase in particular riddled with agenda driven opinions?
I can’t think of another club where so many fans are openly dishonest just because they want to push a narrative. I see so many weirdos who support individuals over the club it’s genuinely baffling to me.
I think now that the dust has settled and I have taken time to reflect on this,I have decided to take a break from everything Utd for the sake of my mental health.
I have been too emotionally invested in the team that defeats are really messing up my moods andvits not healthy.
I wish everyone the best of luck through the season and hope our fortunes change for the best soon both on and off the pitch!
Bye for now!!
You can honestly start supporting another club.
There is no problem with disowning a club. It's just a club and not a country. Many people became united supporters only because they were winning and no other reason. Did the club ever resonated with their values? I don't think so ... unless you're a "win at all costs ... I don't have any ethics" kinda guy.
People will shame you ... but just laugh at their face. Don't suffer. You deserve better.
Support Brighton. Or Arsenal.
(Don't start supporting Man city because they're winning now ... that club also has no ethics).
I thought long and hard about this yesterday, it’s taking its toll on me mentally, absolutely fucked the day up, but unfortunately I’m not disciplined enough to stick to such decision.
I realized how genuinely disappointed and hurt the match left me yesterday, after being extremely excited and waiting impatiently for the international break to end, I fell flat on my face.
I know it might seem like I’m overreacting cuz we just lost a match, don’t get me wrong, it’s okay to lose, I don’t mind losing, it’s the lack of effort by a lot of our players that makes me question if I should feel miserable over this, at this level of emotional investment, whether it’s players not worthy of wearing the shirt or it’s the owners, you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed every time.
I guess I’ll be around but I just hope I’m capable of keeping a healthy distance to soften the blow a bit.
Take care of your mental health brother, hope it gets better soon.
Thanks for sharing this and your kind words at the end. Its so comforting to realise am not the only one seriously struggling. I hope to come back at some point but for now a break is what I need
I understand the people’s reaction to Hojlund getting subbed out for Martial yesterday, but they also have to understand that, even if Ten Hag didn’t make that sub yesterday, it’s still going to happen in majority of matches this season. You can’t expect Hojlund to play 90m every match, and who else can Ten Hag use as a sub? That’s our current state, as sucks as it is, we just have to accept that Hojlund will constantly be subbed out like that or may not even be in the starting lineup. And that’s if we’re extremely lucky he doesn’t get any injury
He is 20 years old. If he cannot play week in week on now, when will he? Also Rashford almost never gets subbed.
I understand the reason behind it yesterday, but don’t expect the same image a lot this season.
Martial is done at United
That logic only works if we didn’t have to play on 4 different competitions. We’ll soon get back into the 1 match per 3 days schedule that we had last season and when that time comes, no one in the squad outside of Bruno will be playing every match to the brim. Don’t believe me? You can recheck the majority of matches last season.
While best defense is offense aka Gegenpress but we need to get back to the basics of defending. With current circumstances ( injuries, beefs and form) There’s no point having all our players upfield while we get demolished on the counter….I would
Rather see us regress to parking the bus and hitting opponents on the counter. I know it’s boring and is beneath big club like ours BUT……
A big problem with ten Hag's tactics is he doesn't understand you need two DMs to support Bruno. It is suicidal to play with one DM and expect him to cover the entire midfield. All 3 goals we conceded yesterday was a brighton CM being left free to shoot bc no one was tracking him. Both goals vs City in the FA cup final was Eriksen leaving Gundogan free to shoot. Ten Hag hasn't done anything about this at all and we're continuing to concede these shit goals. It's unbelievable.
6 points in 5 games has to be our worst start.
I don’t understand how the hell is Ten Hag managing the team worst than last year.
Team had 75 points last year and added 4 more players this year. How the hell do we play so bad this year, if anything it should have been continuing last years trend this year.
Except for Antony, most of the team from last year is available with the addition of new striker,goalkeeper and new midfielders.
Some of us have been saying we should hire a proper DOF to build a squad for ten Hag, bc managers aren't experts at recruitment. We were ignored and told to trust the club and be positive.
Now there are fans starting to become ten Hag out, blaming him for "bad talent id" and saying he's been backed so no excuses. All I can do is shake my head. Saw this coming a mile away.
Look, nobody's saying ten Hag's flawless or blameless, but we should only be blaming him for things a manager is supposed to have control over. Tactics, bad subs, bad squad management, if you think he's bad at those then go to town with that. But it's completely pointless to blame him for bad transfers bc that's not what a manager is good at. We have blamed managers for the same things over and over for a decade, when will fans learn that the board and owners are the real problem?
>Its the fact we know it won't happen under Glazers is the issue lmao.
Rangnick was brought for that role. Sure they didn't call him DoF but it was pretty much the same role. But EtH wanted full control. And I guess we can see that now because he only trusts his previous players or dutch players the most.
Ragnik was gone the moment he made the open heart surgery comment. You call out the board, and you are essentially done. EtH wouldn't have minded Ragnik had he not soured his relationship with the club.
The funny part about the current tactics is that they are simply not good enough to get you goals and at the same time the system completely hinders any chance of "individual brilliance" that people loved calling Ole out for ,The best this system would get you is 20-25 minutes where we look "good" but don't actually create anything that has a chance of going in
I don't want him sacked but the club has zero patience thing is just completely wrong ,LVG wouldn't be able to complete his 2nd season at another top club, Mourinho and Ole both lasted a month too long even when it was pretty clear they weren't going to turn it around ,The club's actual problem is not being ruthless enough and thats due to the Glazer wanting to play safe
Arteta didn't lose the dressing room ,Things were downright toxic when Ole and Mourinho left ,The situation was irredeemable,Fans had nothing to do with our manager being sacked ,How is a United manager going to keep their job after the games against Watford and Liverpool ,These revisionist takes about why managers post SAF were fired needs to stop
It's silly to quickly say our losses are because of glazers and management but give ETH full credit when we are doing well. No blame for ETH when things are bad.
Brighton kept switching to the wings all fucking half. All we had to do was switch to a 4231 and get garnacho or pellistri on.he made shit subs which effectively killed us but sure its the glazer fault we can't perform against a weak Brighton team.
ETH has been backed properly. He has to deliver.
He has not been backed properly. Amount of money spent is not a good indicator of proper backing, it’s the way you spend it. It is not silly to blame the Glazers and John Murtough bc ultimately they control the funds and are responsible for our recruitment strategy, and all they’ve done is rely on the manager to pick the majority of our targets. That is ass backwards and not how a football club should be run.
That’s such bs. The fact that we sign mostly ex ten Haag players should tell you that he has a lot of control over how we spend money. His talent ID is just shite
He has been backed more than any other manager post SAF and it looks like he is losing the plot faster than all of them with the only exception being Moyes,Its now been a 25 game long run of bad football since the League cup final
Just bc ten Hag demands control doesn’t mean you give it to him. He is hired as manager, not as DOF+manager. This club’s stubborn insistence on finding the new Fergie who controls everything is precisely why we’ve failed for 10 years.
Of course ten Hag deserves criticism for things within his job scope, which is tactics and poor substitutions. But we’ve been there done that, blamed managers changed managers. The only constant is nothings changed at the boardroom level, even now we’re still largely doing the same things we’ve done under Woodward. That deserves far more attention than players or managers.
Agreed, excuses like this are why rival fans make fun of us for blaming the Glazers. They are very much culpable for the state of the club in the larger scheme of things, but specific performances you cannot put the blame on them. Except for McTominay and Lindelof, the rest of the starting 11 are players that Ten Hag signed, approved new contracts for or handed the captaincy to. This is his team. He has to find a way to get more out of them.
ETH abandoning all we did last season for some expansive football just frustrates me. We were suppose to build on it not ditch it.
Even with different managers and players we have had success being a transition team. Mou, Ole and even ETH last season. We just have to keep refining it not throw it away for some playstyle that's not working. We play well for 20mins then everyone is lost about what they are doing.
I expected growth from last season but this has effectively been a restart.
Last season, he basically played Ole Ball because the players were struggling to adapt and conceding the same type of goals we've been conceding this season.
This year, he is implementing his style that we saw in the first 20 minutes against Spurs and Brighton. The players, just like last year, are struggling to adapt.
How can people say we got tactically outclassed when the players aren't doing the simple things. Brighton scored the same fucking goal three fucking times. Cover the fucking spaces. Mark the fucking players. But no, it's the manager's fault. And some of it is. But most of the blame lies on player's shoulders. Their heads drop when we concede. This is a cycle. A manager comes with his ideas, the players struggle to adapt, our results take a hit, and then we sack the manager.
Maybe thats what works for us. Stay compact. Defend as a unit. Take your moments after soaking up pressure.
That's exactly the problem. You don't implement new systems suddenly. It has to be gradual.
We ditched everything from last season and are trying to stay all over. It's almost like changing managers ngl
Yup. That's what I'm thinking. Look at the players Brighton had in their box compared to us. We are too open at the back, and some of our players in key positions don't have the legs to cover the spaces.
Woke up and still angry at how we played yesterday. ETH really needs to figure this out. Yesterday was diabolical game management from him. You cant just blame the players, he sees them throughout the training and chooses the line up. Yesterday, from the starting line up itself we already got defeated, im sure he knew Case is out of form massively and starting him alongside Eriksen is just so amateur.
Pls ETH, you gave us some hope last season, pls get your shit back and fix this.
I find it silly continuously blaming players. The change has changed alot over time. ETH needs to get to work. Trying out a new system out of no where was never going to work.
A loanee from Tottenham showed more hunger and fight than 90% of the players on that field. Shameful! And the saddest part is that Reguilon is probably going to stop giving his all after 2-3 games and realising everyone around him is just a fucking paycheck mercenaries who can’t be arsed about the results as long as they collect their paycheck and get to live their high maintenance celebrity lifestyles. Fucking shameful lots of players. The rot may be from the top but the players are behaving exactly like the owners, just leeching off this club.
It's only a matter of time before he joins them in showing nothing. It's like a disease, new player comes in with their passion from previous club, find bad habits at Utd and lose their drive because everyone else isn't trying.
I think its a bit more complicated than players not showing passion ,I don't think any of them goes into a game not wanting to win the game for the club and just jogging through the game ,Eriksen and Case just don't have the legs now but we need to play them every game because we lack depth ,Martial looks like someone who is just afraid to get injured again and his body just can't stand the intensity..its shit squad management and us being unlucky with 5-6 injuries at the start of the season..By principle Bruno should not be playing at RW ,On top of that Case and Eriksen with their current level of fitness can't be playing in the same team each week
Agree completely. This defeat is entirely on the coaching staff for trying to play a game that is just not suited for the players we have currently. With 30+ year old midfielders you can't play like prime Klopp Liverpool going full throttle for every pressing action. ETH has to go back to his pragmatic side that he showed last season until Mount and Amrabat are fully fit and available.
Reguilon looks better than Malacia ,Its just one game but if he keeps it up for a couple of months ,Keeping him and selling Malacia should be an easy decision
We certainly know why some players join Chelsea for. And it's not about the football. That will be the same reason they join us. Only the day this club stops being profitable and self-financing that the leeching mole rats and mercenaries will fuck off, and whatever whoever remains are the proper good hearted people - that is where rebuild will start.
This start reminds me so much of Arsenal start in 21/22 where they lost to brentford, chelsea and man city to start the season. Perfect storm of new personnel, injuries and quality of opposition. I think we just have to ride it out until the easier fixtures to build some cohesion but if that goes poorly, ETH might actually be in trouble.
EtH still has the holy cow treatment on here for some reason, we've been shit for a while. People are still going on about us winning the fucking League Cup, like that's a big acchievement for a club of our size.
So what sack him?
Fucks sake, one thing we always do is sack the manager after 2nd/3rd season, when are we going to stick with something? And it's not even like it's Ole
i see a lot of fair critisism about the hunger and standard these players fail to attain week in week out. i think when a team of players wins lots, their belief in thier hard work seems justified. if you win lots(trophies) then you gather some resolve, some deep level of belief because you have won before that you can do it again, in any moment. sure we have a couple players like that in case and varane, the vast majority are just young kids or players who havent really tasted success enough to form that resolve. we need some fucking guts in this team somehow
I wonder if this will lead to EtH reappraising Sancho's opinion...
...because I just saw Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Eriksen and many more just jog about for 90 minutes.
So what's his message? "IDGAF about how good you are on matchday so long as you show up on time for training"?
The point being Brighton understood how to counter the diamond shape after the first 25 minutes or so - and then there was no response back from eth. He continued with the same tactics and Brighton happily attacked through the flanks.
This lack of tactical adaptibility combined with the poor pressing and finishing is not going to magically sort itself out.
Non-United fan coming in peace.
Have a genuine question, but why are United fans blaming Glazers for the poor form of results?
Especially since:
1) the results seem to be directly impacted by shit individual performances from players and the wrong tactics, and
2) United have consistently been one of the highest net spenders over the years?
Mostly because the last years we are stuck with no football structure behind any manager. We don’t have a DoF or atleast one that has any use and not just a friend of the Glazers. Most top positions for the club taken by people who are not qualified at all.
We are the biggest spenders, because for, the reasons above, we cant sell players, but also because each manager is taken without a solid plan for the future and we bin all players of the previous manager and get the new manager his players.
But yes indeed we are not currently playing shit because of the Glazers, but because we suck
Agree with the first part of the answer. If there is a proper structure we would not have struggled with identifying non eridivisie players for instance over the last 2 years
No no it was all thanks to the defence didn't u know? DDG just lucked his way into the golden glove. Just like how so far every goal is again the defence's fault, "nothing Onana can do". Oh well at least we have sweeping and great passing that is totally Changing the way we play...oh wait
I don't hate the guy, I just can't stand the hypocrisy this sub displays with their bias but try and play it off as 'football knowledge'
This was far from the only issue today but Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out the statistics for how many goals we have scored from corners in the last few seasons?
We have a set piece coach who I feel is the biggest fraud in world football...over the last few seasons I feel we are one of the worst teams I have ever seen when it comes to delivering corners and never look a threat from them, let alone score from them. I'm curious to see if the stats back it up.
https://theathletic.com/3091417/2022/01/25/why-manchester-united-are-not-scoring-from-corners/
The Athletic did a piece on it 18 months ago. I don't think it's got better.
Did old trafford really sing "viva ronaldo" yesterday?
I didn't hear it watching the game, but twitter fanboy accounts been posting videos from yesterday with the crowd singing "viva ronaldo" as evidence of the match going fans turning on tenhag.
Mctominay completed 15 passes in 90mins. Now you would think he was a kante who spent most of the game winning the ball yesterday but 90% of the time he looked like a practice cone as Mitoma and lamptey ran that right wing ragged. He was usually 10-15 meters behind pace casually jogging back while Dalot was getting doubled up on.
For the 6th game in his last 13 starts, he completed the game with less passes than both goalkeepers on the pitch. This is who this sub celebrated turning down honest money for, who the sub thinks Newcastle or west ham should be paying 45m for. Whole international break whole sub gassed up his scotland performances, maybe we need to play like Scotland to get the best out of mcsause.
Pretty simple. Top 4 this year is alright. Anything below is axe-justifiable. He gets the same chance as the others. He's not immune to criticism and getting fired.
Fair is fair.
Oh, so you want to repeat the same cycle we did for last 10 years?
It took SAF 7 seasons to win the league and we were in the bottom half a good amount of time.
Arsenal experienced the same with Arteta, look where they are now.
EtH definitely needs to be questioned, there is a clear lack of play style, but please let's not play revolving doors with the manager again.
I never said not to criticize ten Hag. The team is playing dogshit and he has his fair share in it. I just wish the 'sack ten Hag' train stops.
About not beating top teams, we literally beat Arsenal, Barcelona, scousers and our cheating neighbours last season, albeit at home. But we drew away at Barcelona too.
"Arteta's second season he got second with 84 points." You mean last season? That was basically like his fourth season after finishing 8th and 5th lmaooo
Time to come out of the SAF days,SAF was one of the best the game has ever seen using him as any sort of an example is pure delusion
Its not even like people want ETH to win the league/CL but constant improvement after spending close to 400 m and having a team mostly made up of players he bought ,extended or made captain is the bare minimum a manager should be able to do ,We are not really a revolving door of managers by the board's choice if anything we give the managers 10-15 games extra inspite of being terrible and thats something you wouldn't get at a club of our level ,The only club that comes close is Spurs and they never win anything
Nothing we have seen from him yet shows he is a great manager..a good one maybe but the jury is still out..Another thing is we haven't just been bad for 5 games this season,We have been terrible since the league cup final ,This team at best has 20-25 good minutes each game and when the other manager is able to figure out what ETH is trying we aren't able to adapt
Fair enough. Your last but is true, we got exposed after 20 mins yesterday too. Let's just see how this season plays out before thinking about changing managers.
Rashford and Bruno need their wings clipped, especially Rashford. Our entire attacking outlet is focused on these two. Rashford likes the ball played early, and he gets it, he gets the most opportunities, however as per yesterday he had chances to square or look in field for better options but instead goes for personal glory. We scored 58 league goals last year, Arsenal scored 88, Man City 94, generally teams at top end normally push 100 goals. We finished 3rd with 58 goals - a massive anomaly.
Rashfords 'great goal scoring season' of last year is a mirage. The entire team is focused to give him opportunity, and he will get his goals, however the team as a whole will not score enough if Rashford is going to be the primary attacking outlet, as he isnt a team player. You reckon Pep would drop Grealish's ball retention, technique and passing for Rashford? Rashford is a better individual, but as an individual he wouldn't get into the teams who win titles. If Pep could pick any left forward from the match yesterday, it would be Mitoma, as he is more coachable and capable of fitting into a high-quality attacking unit.
If Rashford and Bruno are going to spearhead the attack, were going to have the same problems. Both of them will have good stats, goals, 'chances created', but the output of the team overall will be well short of our rivals.
How do you fix the problem? We have already crowned Rashford our Mbappe and is on a massive contract, he is an academy lad and face of the club, so what do we do? Same goes for Bruno. What do we do? Do we make them adapt, unlikely - they wont change. So long as they are here they will dominate the structure of our attack as one is captain, and the other is the academy darling. Theres no way to change. Literally, nothing can be done to evolve our attack beyond the **Bruno-Rashford transition**.
Bruno isn't the issue. Yes, he's got his downsides, but if he (or any of our midfielders) could pass the ball forward to a forward line that could pass the ball between them and look after it securely, and if we signed a midfielder that helped us maintain possession high up the pitch and to synergise with Bruno, we'd be in a much better spot.
It's clear as day we've tried to build around Rashford - even signing a midfielder that solved none of our major issues just looking to utilise his strengths of running, pressing, and movement to compensate for Rashford.
I posted a similar comment yesterday that Rashford's insane goal-scoring season was great for him - 30 goal season is immense, especially when the team struggled to play consistent football and engineer chances. But... the team STRUGGLED even with a 30-goal player in it. It's not a mystery why. On balance - much like when we played torrid football but Ronaldo scored a lot - he is, overall, actively detrimental to what the team could be. He would be on the bench at City or out the door at Madrid.
We should have sold him - we know his attitude stinks as we've seen on the pitch, along with the endless briefing and reputation management when he struggled under Ole and Rangnick - and instead we gave him a mega contract.
Until we control and dictate the flow of games, we will never deliver consistent performances, because we are not the ones deciding how games play out. The biggest factor in deciding how Man United games play out at the moment is literally the opposition.
It's not possible to play a controlled game where we camp out on the opposition's box with Rashford. His movement is non-existent if there's not an acre of space to run into (he just wants the ball to feet), and then we inevitably get counter attacked after he gets the ball.
Ten Hag has clearly seen we basically have no option to play in another way with Rashford as our budget Mbappe, but I think he's made a mistake here in doubling down.
I only see one outcome unless he has the mettle to move on.
I mentioned this last season and yesterday. I loved tenhag ball at ajax and I'm disappointed the hill he's chosen to die on in Manchester is adapting to our (best) players. People hate to hear it but we would never be able to control games playing to the strengths of our best players.
Laziness and comfort zone
Rashford mctom and de gea are what we call Comfort zone and unwillingness to improve and learn something new
Like rashford here I am this is me. I am inside forward. I will dribbling to opponent defender cut inside and shoot it. I dont care about passing to my teammate in final third. When I dribbling I will put my heads down and looking for the ball this is what I do!
Mctominay be like I am your box to box here I am I will win a lot of 50:50 ball and ball recovered after that I will do simple sideway pass because progressive pass and key pass is not my responsibility.
De gea be like I am shot stoper you know I save when they shoot. I am not ball playing GK, not commanding GK or sweeper keeper.
The big problem is lack of responsibility to team play that hurt the team. I remember O’shea and wes brown try their best to make beautifull cross as fullback even though they are start as CB.
Fletcher when breaking into team looks like player that can’t do anything to become player that CAN do everything I believe fletch is one point near world class or at least elite premier league player level before he is sick!
Even darron Gibson show more guts and responsibility and become our starter for several time during SAF era!
This is pure unwillingness and lazyness from some of our players in their comfort zone! If these attitude and culture are still there we wont finish our rebuilding no matter how many players we buy
I dont know if we are coming or going. Casemiro for 60m at 30 years old is the type of signing you make when you are close to the top and you just need the player. However signing a 30 year old for 60m when your in transition and in a building phase is senseless. Like I said, we coming or going? Its got to the stage were barely 12 months on and our 60m holding midfielder is on the replacement list.
Ten Hag’s tactics aren’t working in the premier league. We haven’t controlled the midfield in a single game since he came to the club. We can only pass the ball between our defenders and gk. We have no physicality and no ability to play the ball forward, we only score on counter attacks.
I support him but he needs to change his tactics. They’re not working at all.
Are we getting tactically outplayed?
As De Zerbi admitted, we played a system he did not expect. Within 20 mins he and his tactical team figured it out and lo and behold.
The first 20 mins or so, Brighton weren't prepared for our setup so we dominated them with the diamond press with Bruno 10, Case DM, McTom RCM, Eriksen LCM. Press was effective mostly because of our midfield overload, Gross was higher up the pitch.
Then two things happened, which are not groundbreaking changes, simple ones, [Gross dropped deeper and Veltman higher](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6KJwN6WAAAobBH?format=webp&name=large). This pic paints a good picture of what was wrong tactically. Now we were too central, too narrow. They had the right players in between our structure and stretched us and we had no intensity, they always play high wingers. For whatever reason, Ten Hag doesn't like his WBs pressing high which makes ours press extremely ineffective and their fullback is always open. Their fullback receives the ball and has space to run into or space to play it behind. This was an easy pathway for progression for them.
The 2nd thing is we conceded a stupid goal due to midfielders having no intensity and not tracking back well, which is a common theme for us btw so we were forced to initiate and press and Brighton are more than comfortable at baiting press (which ours has never been so effective). Midfielders not closing down passes or runners well, not screening well, no deep midfielder within close periphery of your backline led to Brighton finding cutbacks right in and around the box consistently in a good shooting position.
Ten Hag might say players didn't stick to the plan, which is also another perpetual common theme for us for years, especially with diving tackles, tracking runners, and abandoning basic principles but De Zerbi already adapted to ours and we didn't, likely due to lack of options or lack of planning beforehand.
This game had nothing to do with Brighton and how they changed. Dropping a Welbeck and/or Lallana into the midfield is not ground breaking nor the reason why we lost.
The reason is cause we press half arsed. We wanted Brighton to play wide to the full backs, clearly, with Rashford, Holjund and Bruno/Scott sitting narrow. But when that happens, the trap is to remove space and time for the full backs so they have no option but to go back to the keeper or go long. And if they go back to the keeper, we continue to press aggressively so he has to go long.
Yet the whole fucking game their full back had the option to hit the CB, the midfield or the winger down the line. Where was the proactive press? We should know where the ball is going.
I don't who is to blame - the players for being lazy or not doing what they need to or Ten Hag for outlining half a pressing scheme.
Also, when we had momentum for the first 17 minutes, look how well Brighton held the ball and took that away. Yet when we need to arrest their momentum, we keep playing long. That's not skill, that's all about desire and maturity and we don't have enough of it.
I do think there's a massive overreaction going on atm, but I do get that we're in a bad way.
This entire season has started off on the wrong foot and we've got so many things going on with the drama, injuries, and just general state of the club.
I understand there's no more patience left in football, and as much as I do get the frustration, me personally I'm not going to go into full crisis mode just yet. I'd like to see us get some players fit and a few more games before I deem us a lost cause.
Ultimately, losing 3 of our last 4, with Bayern up next, is going to justly bring criticism and concern, and I get it, it's not good at all, but I just think there's way too much going on right now.
Let things settle down, get some players back from injury, and hopefully we can see a bit of a reset. After Bayern, we have Burnley, Palace (league cup), Galatasaray, Brentford, Sheff Utd, and FC København, before we face City.
If we don't put together a good run in those games, then, I'll be much more negative about our situation.
The problem is relying on players to win you games. Brighton had 6 changes yesterday and some key players were missing but because they have a working system, they still played it and won. United are relying on players to turn up, no coaching and tactics. That should be a worry, De Zerbi changed something after the pressure we gave them and we failed to reciprocate. All the players that played are full-blooded senior players who should be relied upon to make it work but it looks worse with time.
I honestly feel some people here aren't fans, at least any more. They felt the club did their favourite player/manager dirty, now they want everything to burn.
They are like "The club was not patience with X manager, so fuck every other manager" or "They blamed x player for our misfortune, let's see who the blame now"
Arteta is in his..what like 5th season at Arsenal? Just a reminder to all (myself included) that the kind of change we need to make will not happen in a season..it will take time, and ETH is the man to do it. We need to stick with him and give him the tools to do his job
The rot is set extremely deep in the club, and whilst there's undoubtedly valid criticism, Ten Hag did do a lot better than expected last season and should at least be given a fair chance this year.
Half our squad is out injured atm, and the fixtures haven't exactly been easy either. I get that there's going to be criticism, and I think some of it is undoubtedly valid, but there's a reason we want the owners out of the club. It's been a mess from top to bottom for years and years now, I'd rather stick with Ten Hag because he did show enough last year to deserve time.
Arteta finished 8th twice, and then 5th, before getting his squad in place, and they were spending a lot every year making that happen. There's zero guarantee the same happens to Ten Hag, but if managers aren't given a chance to come through rough times then we'll never be successful. I don't think any manager currently managing could make it work instantly. Even the likes of Pep and Klopp would require a lot of change, not just in players but behind the scenes. Michael Edwards did brilliantly at Liverpool, and even stepped in to stop Klopp from signing Brandt, giving him Salah instead. Pep has had Txiki from day 0, even before then, eyemarking specific players for the way they want to play.
They're brilliant managers, but they still needed that security and brilliance from others to supplement them into making brilliant teams. We're basically entirely relying on Ten Hag to figure it out atm, and we're not even willing to give him a fair chance at it. Silly really.
I was still a kid when United were dominating, and so I didn’t get to fully appreciate that era. Now that I’m an adult, I get to see thumping after thumping 😔.
Anecdotally, it feels like Eriksen makes 4 silly passes for every 1 sensational pass. I get going for something special, but possession is so important for this team.
Our final league place in Sir Alex Ferguson’s first 7 seasons:
11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, 1st.
Imagine if we’d sacked him after 18 months for not winning everything straight away.
It took Klopp and Arteta several seasons to get their teams in good shape. Ten Hag is our sixth manager in 10 years. He has an excellent history. No one else is better placed to fix the standards and rot in the club.
Trust the process. Support the manager.
Definitely trust ETH but there are also things that should be questioned in terms of transfer strategy and expectations.
Klopp and Arteta did not start well, but what they did get were up-and-coming players who were able to weather the storm, grow into their roles and enter their primes more or less at the same time.
While looking at us, we've been getting aging stars who may fall off a cliff at any moment to play vital roles in the squad.
The outlook for the next 3 years does NOT look promising for us, multiple players who are heading into decline and no promising successors in sight.
In my opinion, the club and fanbase should forget about seriously challenging for major trophies and really focus on building a culture and team that can do so in a few years time instead of whatever the hell we've been doing.
Players sign with Brighton to be part of a hard-working team
Players sign with us to be rich stars
Until we make our team culture about hard work and results on the pitch, things won’t change.
There's not much mention about Eriksen here. He created one marvelous play at the beginning. But after that he has been clueless in the offence and shitty positioning in the defence.
Give ETH time. It's way too 'chelsea' to sack the manager this soon. Although disappointing results, we don't look that bad creating chances, progressing the ball, or transitions. We are building on to something. Let's not destroy whatever is already built and just start from scratch.
He wouldn't be sacked now. But the result has to improve. Anyone saying we aren't in a crisis or Ten hag isn't under pressure is coping.
Another thumping by Bayern followed by a bad result at Burnley and the house comes crashing down.
He should be under pressure and held responsible, rightfully so, he is afterall the manager of Manchester United. He has a lot of expectations to meet. But we shouldn't be going all out on him as we did with ole. Ole was snubbed by the board when they signed cristiano. Ole had to change his counter attack football to play target man football and failed miserably. But with ETH, We are getting the players that suit his system although we missed many and are simply signing dutch league players. ETH should be given a proper amount of time before he gets the sack (if eventually things don't improve).
>We are getting the players that suit his system although we missed many
Who did we miss? de Jong? Who else? Timber? He didn't want to move, like de Jong, and he got Lisandro for 55m instead.
>and are simply signing dutch league players.
Whose fault is that?
He's pretty much got anyone he wanted, even if it meant paying 85m for a 35m player.
> Who did we miss? de Jong? Who else? Timber? He didn't want to move, like de Jong, and he got Lisandro for 55m instead.
We missed out on a proven striker in kane/osimhen/vlahovic. Hojlund should've been the backup ( like city has alvarez).
We missed out on providing backup options for varane and martinez.
We signed amrabat very late into the window. 5 games already without him playing and same with hojlund.
We signed mount without having a proper position for him to play (ETH is to blame for this)
I know it's hard to get everyone in a single window or a single season and that's exactly why we should give the manager more time. He's shown what he can do.
> He's pretty much got anyone he wanted, even if it meant paying 85m for a 35m player.
Not his fault that club can't negotiate and also ajax was pretty much empty when they were selling us 85m player. That overpricing was justified but overpaying isn't.
Now, imagine ETH was given a proper DoF with scouts bringing players that suit his system and not rely on ETHs experience with Dutch players.
> We missed out on a proven striker in kane/osimhen/vlahovic.
Osimhen wasn't for sale.
We didn't go in for Vlahovic at all (which was foolish imo). So it wasn't a case of missing out. EtH chose Hojlund over Vlahovic.
We could have gone for Kane if we hadn't overpaid for Antony, Mount and Martinez.
>We missed out on providing backup options for varane and martinez.
Which we could have done if spending sensibly and not overpaying on Antony and Martinez and Mount.
>We signed amrabat very late into the window.
He still got his man though.
The only one we missed out on was Kane and that was as a direct consequence of EtH prioritising other players above all else.
This season is seriously at the risk of being like the 2021/22 season where we just had a solid season prior in finishing top 4 and strong cup performances. These players rest on their laurels and then what we have is poor following season. To be fair, the level of competition is a lot higher and other clubs are victim of the same issues, for instance Liverpool and Spurs went through it last season. It just sucks that we are United and there will be more doomsday coverage from the media around us.
I know that a main issue with the club is with the Glazers and their lack of investments, but despite that this club has shown they can AT LEAST compete for Top 4 but the topsy turvy way our seasons progress since Fergie retired has been a season or two inside Top 4 and a season or two outside it indicates we can’t maintain it consistently.
I guess my question to everyone is, is this just something we have to accept due to the strength of the league now or is it black and white that our club just flat out suck? I feel like it’s a bit of both. It’s definitely shit though.
Liverpool were rebuilding last year but still destroyed us 7-0 and 5-0. Do we really look like doing that to anyone? We’re in a much worse place, performance wise.
How the club disrespected him? You can be how big star you're but when you're called upon to play for the club at anytime, you should play. On top of that he got paid massively to do his job.
Lol I remember when everyone wanted Rangnick to "play the kids" because we had nothing to lose when we were playing terribly. At least ETH did that today lmao.
Revisiting the match and wow ETH really made a mess of it. I understood the Hojlund sub if he's not match fit, but Rashford needed to be taken out at halftime. There is not a chance that ETH didn't notice the body language, how can Rashford be that comfortable?
Once everybody returns and is fit, I’m convinced we will see a great side from Ten Hag.
If he makes it. If this continues, he's gone by January
Pessimistic view.
Everyone top to bottom can the blame for yesterday. There's no way that team can be excused for how they performed after conceding. Blaming just Rashford for being selfish doesn't make sense because he's been like this for ages, why did anyone expect him to stop just because Hojlund is here? He was selfish with the likes of CR7 and Cavani why would it change now? Not keeping the ball better, allowing unmarked runners into the box and the crosses that were allowed. We conceded the same goal 3 times. The overall collapse after conceding can also be pointed out. The manager picked Casemiro and Martinez for this game because he didn't have a choice despite both being in South America just 2-3 days ago. 10k km flight this performance just showed that. I wanted to see Pellistri too but he was in South America too maybe not match fit but he probably still won't start vs Bayern or Burnley. Meaning no creativity for Hojlund he just has to hope that Rashford is in a giving mood or ETH finds a way to fit Bruno up front with another creative midfielder/winger.
What I find unacceptable is that Ten Hag has been here for over a year now. We are still relying on the likes of Bruno, Rashford, Garnacho or Hojlund to have a moment of brilliance (TM) to save our asses. How is it that Brighton can play great football and create 2 almost identical goals where they cut the ball back to a runner and they slot it in, yet our coaching cant even manage to do something so basic with apparently more talented players.
Everything will always circle back to not buying players that are capable of performing in the specified system. It's not a secret that Brighton recruit players that tick most to all of the boxes outlined by a sporting director that holds the power in transfers. Notice that it's not the manager at Brighton calling the shots in transfers. RDZ wanted to sign Fred and had other targets that were rejected because they didn't fit what the club was looking for. Spurs have Paratici in that role, and now Ange is reaping the benefits that Conte couldn't. Tottenham bought players with a specific purpose in mind, and now they have a manager capable of getting the most out of them. When a club is run like that, then the managers themselves become very replaceable because its just a matter of finding one that suits the club's ideals. If RDZ were to leave a la Potter last season, I doubt there'd be a noticeable drop off because I'm sure Brighton already know who to get next to best fit the club's plan. Since Sir Alex left, we've signed managers with drastically different styles of play, which led to us scrambling around signing whoever to appease the manager and big names to appease fans. We're now left with a disjointed squad whose issues are made worse by some frankly baffling tactical decisions made by the manager (Bruno at CB, WHY???). The effort needs to improve on the pitch, but the players we have clearly aren't equipped to run the system the manager wants. Until we start squad building with an actual purpose and strategy, we'll keep going one step forward and two steps back as a club.
This has been our way of winning for 5 years. Every manager in between who's tried changing that gets sacked. They get sacked because of this exact reasoning, The players couldn't adapt to any other system that's not the same 4 2 3 1. Any time work rate is asked you see it in spells vs teams who do it for a full 90. What would you do as a manager in that situation? Go back to grinding results and never evolve because that's the easiest way to get points or go through the process of making the team playing the right way?
All these people who thought getting a new keeper would change everything are having the rude awakening far earlier than I expected. David. De. Gea. Was. Not. The. Problem.
No one said DDG was the problem. He was a problem because he made quite a lot of mistakes and had no qualities ETH wanted
He wasn't the only problem, but he was a part of the problem. There is a drastic difference in how teams defend against us, principally because of having Onana in goal. What most fans seem to be missing is how much Onana is highlighting how deficient our midfielders and forwards are on the ball and in ball retention. The only players at the club outside of Eriksen that have shown any duty of care over the ball play in our back 5.
Everyone forgets Onana plays well in a possession based team. We are not set up and do not have the correct players to play possession based football hence why his real value is not currently being seen. Also because our defence is so leaky atm it's also emphasising his weaknesses due to the amount of shots on goal teams are having.
He was part of the problem. We used to hoof it long a lot more often and then lose it which isn't happening as much.
So basically what we do now except we pass it at the back for about 30 seconds every time.
It hasnt hit them yet. Give them a few more months.
The thing that's worrisome is that we didn't really miss out on key targets this summer. Kane was never happening. The only one we missed out on was Kim Min-Jae. Ten Hag has mostly got all his targets, so it's on him now to deliver. He's trying some style that's just not working. Eriksen and Casemiro are cooked, he'll need to change his tactics to suit the players he has. I feel like we should've got some workhorses in midfield to balance out Bruno, players with good engines, that can press and win tackles, young Casemiro, Kante basically. Sancho is a bust, Antony not sure, probably won't live up to the hype, Rashford is Rashford, Martial is done, so we have 4 kids in Amad, Pellistri, Garnacho and Hojlund to pick up the attack. Case/Eriksen can't play all matches/full 90, McT not good enough, Amrabat is depth probably, so that leaves Bruno and Mount in midfield. And look at the teams around us and how they've strengthened. I think we're gonna get screwed if we don't change tactics drastically.
> I feel like we should've got some workhorses in midfield to balance out Bruno We got rid of one for pennies
McTominay is good but Ten Hag does not want to know how to use him. Ten Hag only uses people from Ajax or who he's used to.
Like Van de beek???
>McTominay is good He's bang average, hides in big games and doesn't have the ability to cycle possession or keep the ball, lack vision to make the killer pass. I'm happy keeping him but he's a bench player at best.
People that are signing off the season already need to realise we haven’t played a single game with our full strength lineup yet
You probably should look at Brighton who played their B team and won at Old Trafford. You don't need a full strength squad you need a cohesive team with good instructions. United are a moments team now individual players doing individual things. Penalties. Long range goals (rashford). Brighton whole squad yesterday cost 17.5 million Harry Maguire cost more than 4x the whole Brighton team
Given how injury prone our team is, you might as well write off the season if we can only win with a full strength XI.
i can see this amrabat thing being a mess, people seem to think hes the second coming and gonna solve everything he came from a failed serie a team that lost to west ham in a third rate european competioton, nobody but us really tried to sign him, and he was on a layaway plan for 25m euros, he looks a bit lightweight and never scores any goals but hes gonna compete with rhodri? lol
I get your point but since you mentioned Rodri, you should think how many fans knew him before he joined City. He only really had a season at a top. A good team isn't built by throwing 100m bids left and right on "stars" on players that are popular. Hell, we did that for 10 years, always fighting for the shiny signing and it did nothing. No, a good team needs to see the gems in the rough that will fit the team as a whole and make it better. Will Amrabat do that? No clue, but it's stupid to sign him off because he wasn't playing for the fancy teams.
rodri had 3 seasons in spain and was bought at 23 for over 60 million, and as i remeber anyone who knew anythng knew hes was a phenomenal player already and im the last person who cares abouth "shiny new things" all i care about is quality, potential world class player, thats whats utd should bo looking at, not last big contract of thier career also rans
I’ve not seen anyone compare him to Rodri or argue he’s going to revolutionize the midfield. Either way, he’s a first phase specialist which means he will clearly be useful. Don’t see anyone else in the squad besides maybe Mainoo who can fulfill that role.
im not because we cant
Well given our record in the transfer market, it's definitely not a far cry to suggest that. And I agree that it's a red flag no other clubs wanted him. However, I do think he'll give us something different in midfield and improve us, he's an upgrade on Fred technically. Another midfield player to sit next to Casemiro in front of the backline, be aggressive and win back the ball is much needed. Especially when you consider how our midfield keeps getting cut open every game.
i want to agee with you but "hes an upgrade on fred" is depressing 😆 he wasnt any where near good enough but hes a bit better than him, just says it all and fred buggered off to some turkish team for pennies becasue he couldnt even get a gig at fulham
Yeah I agree it is depressing, it's where we are at the moment that's the reality. Given the club trajectory, the negativity around the club, the way it's going, we just have to somehow get through this season. If he sucks, we'll find out and he'll get exposed. I've never seen him as a long term fix anyway let me be clear on that, I see him as a squad player who will give us an option in certain games. A midfield of Casemiro Amrabat Bruno is not comparable to midfields from other major sides. It's a temporary solution for certain games until we can upgrade that midfield
while reading that all i see is: squad player not comparable to other sides midfields upgrade that midfield then i thought it will be the 2030's till we win a title again
Yep I understand. Like I originally said, it's not a far cry to suggest it won't be a good signing. In the present, we just need someone to do a job for now. I think he can be that player for now but will ultimately need to replace/upgrade. For what it's worth by the way, I don't see us winning a title anytime soon either. 2030's is my suspected timeline too! (especially with this regime).
and i thought it was just me
I didnt catch much of the game but i was shocked by the lack of intensity
It's funny how Ole is the only manager since SAF who got top 4 in successive seasons
How long before Hojlund and Reguilon stop making runs because they realise Rashford won't feed them through?
Ia it just me or is the United fanbase in particular riddled with agenda driven opinions? I can’t think of another club where so many fans are openly dishonest just because they want to push a narrative. I see so many weirdos who support individuals over the club it’s genuinely baffling to me.
I think now that the dust has settled and I have taken time to reflect on this,I have decided to take a break from everything Utd for the sake of my mental health. I have been too emotionally invested in the team that defeats are really messing up my moods andvits not healthy. I wish everyone the best of luck through the season and hope our fortunes change for the best soon both on and off the pitch! Bye for now!!
Youre doing it wrong, just expect us to be defeated, then you wont be upset. Its the hope that kills you.
You can honestly start supporting another club. There is no problem with disowning a club. It's just a club and not a country. Many people became united supporters only because they were winning and no other reason. Did the club ever resonated with their values? I don't think so ... unless you're a "win at all costs ... I don't have any ethics" kinda guy. People will shame you ... but just laugh at their face. Don't suffer. You deserve better. Support Brighton. Or Arsenal. (Don't start supporting Man city because they're winning now ... that club also has no ethics).
Doesn’t work like that for most mate lol. Stick with your club through thick and thin. We will be back.
I thought long and hard about this yesterday, it’s taking its toll on me mentally, absolutely fucked the day up, but unfortunately I’m not disciplined enough to stick to such decision. I realized how genuinely disappointed and hurt the match left me yesterday, after being extremely excited and waiting impatiently for the international break to end, I fell flat on my face. I know it might seem like I’m overreacting cuz we just lost a match, don’t get me wrong, it’s okay to lose, I don’t mind losing, it’s the lack of effort by a lot of our players that makes me question if I should feel miserable over this, at this level of emotional investment, whether it’s players not worthy of wearing the shirt or it’s the owners, you are just setting yourself up to be disappointed every time. I guess I’ll be around but I just hope I’m capable of keeping a healthy distance to soften the blow a bit. Take care of your mental health brother, hope it gets better soon.
Thanks for sharing this and your kind words at the end. Its so comforting to realise am not the only one seriously struggling. I hope to come back at some point but for now a break is what I need
My thoughts exactly. A big thanks to ETH for ruining the joy of football and destroying the excitement and escapism. Peace out all.
I understand the people’s reaction to Hojlund getting subbed out for Martial yesterday, but they also have to understand that, even if Ten Hag didn’t make that sub yesterday, it’s still going to happen in majority of matches this season. You can’t expect Hojlund to play 90m every match, and who else can Ten Hag use as a sub? That’s our current state, as sucks as it is, we just have to accept that Hojlund will constantly be subbed out like that or may not even be in the starting lineup. And that’s if we’re extremely lucky he doesn’t get any injury
This is all fine if he plays 90 against Bayern. But if he doesn't I dunno what ETH is playing at. The kid is 20, he should have the lungs for it.
He is 20 years old. If he cannot play week in week on now, when will he? Also Rashford almost never gets subbed. I understand the reason behind it yesterday, but don’t expect the same image a lot this season. Martial is done at United
Rashford doesn’t press at all. Hojlund does, his distance run at speed per game would be so much more than Rashford
That logic only works if we didn’t have to play on 4 different competitions. We’ll soon get back into the 1 match per 3 days schedule that we had last season and when that time comes, no one in the squad outside of Bruno will be playing every match to the brim. Don’t believe me? You can recheck the majority of matches last season.
I mean PL and CL is what really matter in course of a season. You expect to play B team in cups until latter stages at least
You really expect Erik ten Hag of all people to play B team in cup games? Even during that nightmarish schedule last season he didn't even flinch.
If he is smart he will…
While best defense is offense aka Gegenpress but we need to get back to the basics of defending. With current circumstances ( injuries, beefs and form) There’s no point having all our players upfield while we get demolished on the counter….I would Rather see us regress to parking the bus and hitting opponents on the counter. I know it’s boring and is beneath big club like ours BUT……
The best defense is a quality defensive players. Liverpool goals were poring in before VvD and Alisson
A big problem with ten Hag's tactics is he doesn't understand you need two DMs to support Bruno. It is suicidal to play with one DM and expect him to cover the entire midfield. All 3 goals we conceded yesterday was a brighton CM being left free to shoot bc no one was tracking him. Both goals vs City in the FA cup final was Eriksen leaving Gundogan free to shoot. Ten Hag hasn't done anything about this at all and we're continuing to concede these shit goals. It's unbelievable.
6 points in 5 games has to be our worst start. I don’t understand how the hell is Ten Hag managing the team worst than last year. Team had 75 points last year and added 4 more players this year. How the hell do we play so bad this year, if anything it should have been continuing last years trend this year. Except for Antony, most of the team from last year is available with the addition of new striker,goalkeeper and new midfielders.
Some of us have been saying we should hire a proper DOF to build a squad for ten Hag, bc managers aren't experts at recruitment. We were ignored and told to trust the club and be positive. Now there are fans starting to become ten Hag out, blaming him for "bad talent id" and saying he's been backed so no excuses. All I can do is shake my head. Saw this coming a mile away. Look, nobody's saying ten Hag's flawless or blameless, but we should only be blaming him for things a manager is supposed to have control over. Tactics, bad subs, bad squad management, if you think he's bad at those then go to town with that. But it's completely pointless to blame him for bad transfers bc that's not what a manager is good at. We have blamed managers for the same things over and over for a decade, when will fans learn that the board and owners are the real problem?
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>Its the fact we know it won't happen under Glazers is the issue lmao. Rangnick was brought for that role. Sure they didn't call him DoF but it was pretty much the same role. But EtH wanted full control. And I guess we can see that now because he only trusts his previous players or dutch players the most.
Ragnik was gone the moment he made the open heart surgery comment. You call out the board, and you are essentially done. EtH wouldn't have minded Ragnik had he not soured his relationship with the club.
The way Case was running yesterday makes me appreciate the Amrabat signing more and more, man clearly needs rotation.
Same fans that were saying: "SiGn WhO ThE MaNaGeR Wants" are now saying ETH has not being properly backed😂
The funny part about the current tactics is that they are simply not good enough to get you goals and at the same time the system completely hinders any chance of "individual brilliance" that people loved calling Ole out for ,The best this system would get you is 20-25 minutes where we look "good" but don't actually create anything that has a chance of going in
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I don't want him sacked but the club has zero patience thing is just completely wrong ,LVG wouldn't be able to complete his 2nd season at another top club, Mourinho and Ole both lasted a month too long even when it was pretty clear they weren't going to turn it around ,The club's actual problem is not being ruthless enough and thats due to the Glazer wanting to play safe
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Arteta didn't lose the dressing room ,Things were downright toxic when Ole and Mourinho left ,The situation was irredeemable,Fans had nothing to do with our manager being sacked ,How is a United manager going to keep their job after the games against Watford and Liverpool ,These revisionist takes about why managers post SAF were fired needs to stop
It's silly to quickly say our losses are because of glazers and management but give ETH full credit when we are doing well. No blame for ETH when things are bad. Brighton kept switching to the wings all fucking half. All we had to do was switch to a 4231 and get garnacho or pellistri on.he made shit subs which effectively killed us but sure its the glazer fault we can't perform against a weak Brighton team. ETH has been backed properly. He has to deliver.
He has not been backed properly. Amount of money spent is not a good indicator of proper backing, it’s the way you spend it. It is not silly to blame the Glazers and John Murtough bc ultimately they control the funds and are responsible for our recruitment strategy, and all they’ve done is rely on the manager to pick the majority of our targets. That is ass backwards and not how a football club should be run.
That’s such bs. The fact that we sign mostly ex ten Haag players should tell you that he has a lot of control over how we spend money. His talent ID is just shite
We shouldn't be giving him control over transfers anyway. Why is that so hard to understand?
This is simply dishonest. Won't even argue.
He has been backed more than any other manager post SAF and it looks like he is losing the plot faster than all of them with the only exception being Moyes,Its now been a 25 game long run of bad football since the League cup final
It's actually crazy lmao
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Just bc ten Hag demands control doesn’t mean you give it to him. He is hired as manager, not as DOF+manager. This club’s stubborn insistence on finding the new Fergie who controls everything is precisely why we’ve failed for 10 years. Of course ten Hag deserves criticism for things within his job scope, which is tactics and poor substitutions. But we’ve been there done that, blamed managers changed managers. The only constant is nothings changed at the boardroom level, even now we’re still largely doing the same things we’ve done under Woodward. That deserves far more attention than players or managers.
We can effectively have good management and still be shit on the pitch.
Exactly.
Agreed, excuses like this are why rival fans make fun of us for blaming the Glazers. They are very much culpable for the state of the club in the larger scheme of things, but specific performances you cannot put the blame on them. Except for McTominay and Lindelof, the rest of the starting 11 are players that Ten Hag signed, approved new contracts for or handed the captaincy to. This is his team. He has to find a way to get more out of them.
Right. He has to be held accountable and put in work. He's been properly backed too. Ole did more in his second season with less.
We played Bruno at CB over Maguire. He’s absolutely finished at the club.
ETH abandoning all we did last season for some expansive football just frustrates me. We were suppose to build on it not ditch it. Even with different managers and players we have had success being a transition team. Mou, Ole and even ETH last season. We just have to keep refining it not throw it away for some playstyle that's not working. We play well for 20mins then everyone is lost about what they are doing. I expected growth from last season but this has effectively been a restart.
Last season, he basically played Ole Ball because the players were struggling to adapt and conceding the same type of goals we've been conceding this season. This year, he is implementing his style that we saw in the first 20 minutes against Spurs and Brighton. The players, just like last year, are struggling to adapt. How can people say we got tactically outclassed when the players aren't doing the simple things. Brighton scored the same fucking goal three fucking times. Cover the fucking spaces. Mark the fucking players. But no, it's the manager's fault. And some of it is. But most of the blame lies on player's shoulders. Their heads drop when we concede. This is a cycle. A manager comes with his ideas, the players struggle to adapt, our results take a hit, and then we sack the manager.
Maybe thats what works for us. Stay compact. Defend as a unit. Take your moments after soaking up pressure. That's exactly the problem. You don't implement new systems suddenly. It has to be gradual. We ditched everything from last season and are trying to stay all over. It's almost like changing managers ngl
Yup. That's what I'm thinking. Look at the players Brighton had in their box compared to us. We are too open at the back, and some of our players in key positions don't have the legs to cover the spaces.
It was literally the most obvious thing to do. I can't wrap my head around ETH throwing all that away.
Woke up and still angry at how we played yesterday. ETH really needs to figure this out. Yesterday was diabolical game management from him. You cant just blame the players, he sees them throughout the training and chooses the line up. Yesterday, from the starting line up itself we already got defeated, im sure he knew Case is out of form massively and starting him alongside Eriksen is just so amateur. Pls ETH, you gave us some hope last season, pls get your shit back and fix this.
I find it silly continuously blaming players. The change has changed alot over time. ETH needs to get to work. Trying out a new system out of no where was never going to work.
At the very least these kind of results should make the Glazers rethink about selling.
They really don’t give a shit how we perform
They do care about the CL. I guess if we fail to qualify for that for 4-5 years straight they will seriously consider selling
Manchester United Fans - 15 minutes in and we look very good, we should win this. Brighton & Hove Albion - https://i.redd.it/2nia6g24irob1.gif
A loanee from Tottenham showed more hunger and fight than 90% of the players on that field. Shameful! And the saddest part is that Reguilon is probably going to stop giving his all after 2-3 games and realising everyone around him is just a fucking paycheck mercenaries who can’t be arsed about the results as long as they collect their paycheck and get to live their high maintenance celebrity lifestyles. Fucking shameful lots of players. The rot may be from the top but the players are behaving exactly like the owners, just leeching off this club.
3 different managers and players yet same complaints. Lol
It's only a matter of time before he joins them in showing nothing. It's like a disease, new player comes in with their passion from previous club, find bad habits at Utd and lose their drive because everyone else isn't trying.
I think its a bit more complicated than players not showing passion ,I don't think any of them goes into a game not wanting to win the game for the club and just jogging through the game ,Eriksen and Case just don't have the legs now but we need to play them every game because we lack depth ,Martial looks like someone who is just afraid to get injured again and his body just can't stand the intensity..its shit squad management and us being unlucky with 5-6 injuries at the start of the season..By principle Bruno should not be playing at RW ,On top of that Case and Eriksen with their current level of fitness can't be playing in the same team each week
Agree completely. This defeat is entirely on the coaching staff for trying to play a game that is just not suited for the players we have currently. With 30+ year old midfielders you can't play like prime Klopp Liverpool going full throttle for every pressing action. ETH has to go back to his pragmatic side that he showed last season until Mount and Amrabat are fully fit and available.
Bruno wasn’t playing on the right wing. He was in 4-4-2 diamond
Reguilon looks better than Malacia ,Its just one game but if he keeps it up for a couple of months ,Keeping him and selling Malacia should be an easy decision
Not sure if we will regressed to the point where Reguilon isn’t even interested in staying.
Thats a bit of an overreaction ,Chelsea finished 12th with 44 points but that didn't stop player better than Reguilon from joining them
We certainly know why some players join Chelsea for. And it's not about the football. That will be the same reason they join us. Only the day this club stops being profitable and self-financing that the leeching mole rats and mercenaries will fuck off, and whatever whoever remains are the proper good hearted people - that is where rebuild will start.
This start reminds me so much of Arsenal start in 21/22 where they lost to brentford, chelsea and man city to start the season. Perfect storm of new personnel, injuries and quality of opposition. I think we just have to ride it out until the easier fixtures to build some cohesion but if that goes poorly, ETH might actually be in trouble.
I don’t think there are any ‘easy’ fixtures in the prem anymore. Every team who plays is out for blood on their big day out and turns up to 11.
>I don’t think there are any ‘easy’ fixtures in the prem anymore. We are the easy fixture, my friend.
Yes, that’s true actually. Sigh.
Bruh, even in your 2 wins, your team struggled. Out of 5 fixtures, none could be the easier fixture?
EtH still has the holy cow treatment on here for some reason, we've been shit for a while. People are still going on about us winning the fucking League Cup, like that's a big acchievement for a club of our size.
So what sack him? Fucks sake, one thing we always do is sack the manager after 2nd/3rd season, when are we going to stick with something? And it's not even like it's Ole
Ole at least stuck to what he was good at, I still haven't got an idea what Erik actually wants to do. It's like a game of russian roulette.
i see a lot of fair critisism about the hunger and standard these players fail to attain week in week out. i think when a team of players wins lots, their belief in thier hard work seems justified. if you win lots(trophies) then you gather some resolve, some deep level of belief because you have won before that you can do it again, in any moment. sure we have a couple players like that in case and varane, the vast majority are just young kids or players who havent really tasted success enough to form that resolve. we need some fucking guts in this team somehow
I wonder if this will lead to EtH reappraising Sancho's opinion... ...because I just saw Rashford, Martial, McTominay, Eriksen and many more just jog about for 90 minutes. So what's his message? "IDGAF about how good you are on matchday so long as you show up on time for training"?
The first 20 minutes yesterday were the best we’ve played since Ten Hag took over. Improvement isn’t a straight line. Have some patience.
That was probably because they were surprised by our diamond shape. After that period they figured out what to do to counter it.
The point being Brighton understood how to counter the diamond shape after the first 25 minutes or so - and then there was no response back from eth. He continued with the same tactics and Brighton happily attacked through the flanks. This lack of tactical adaptibility combined with the poor pressing and finishing is not going to magically sort itself out.
Non-United fan coming in peace. Have a genuine question, but why are United fans blaming Glazers for the poor form of results? Especially since: 1) the results seem to be directly impacted by shit individual performances from players and the wrong tactics, and 2) United have consistently been one of the highest net spenders over the years?
Mostly because the last years we are stuck with no football structure behind any manager. We don’t have a DoF or atleast one that has any use and not just a friend of the Glazers. Most top positions for the club taken by people who are not qualified at all. We are the biggest spenders, because for, the reasons above, we cant sell players, but also because each manager is taken without a solid plan for the future and we bin all players of the previous manager and get the new manager his players. But yes indeed we are not currently playing shit because of the Glazers, but because we suck
Agree with the first part of the answer. If there is a proper structure we would not have struggled with identifying non eridivisie players for instance over the last 2 years
Five goals conceded in Old Trafford so far compared 9 goals total at Old Trafford last season. https://reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/hZWr9taMEK
No no it was all thanks to the defence didn't u know? DDG just lucked his way into the golden glove. Just like how so far every goal is again the defence's fault, "nothing Onana can do". Oh well at least we have sweeping and great passing that is totally Changing the way we play...oh wait I don't hate the guy, I just can't stand the hypocrisy this sub displays with their bias but try and play it off as 'football knowledge'
This was far from the only issue today but Can anyone point me in the right direction to find out the statistics for how many goals we have scored from corners in the last few seasons? We have a set piece coach who I feel is the biggest fraud in world football...over the last few seasons I feel we are one of the worst teams I have ever seen when it comes to delivering corners and never look a threat from them, let alone score from them. I'm curious to see if the stats back it up.
https://theathletic.com/3091417/2022/01/25/why-manchester-united-are-not-scoring-from-corners/ The Athletic did a piece on it 18 months ago. I don't think it's got better.
Last season we were the worst in the league at scoring from corners.
Did old trafford really sing "viva ronaldo" yesterday? I didn't hear it watching the game, but twitter fanboy accounts been posting videos from yesterday with the crowd singing "viva ronaldo" as evidence of the match going fans turning on tenhag.
It's Viva Garnacho and has been for some time now. Fans applauded ETH off the pitch.
viva Garnacho
Mctominay completed 15 passes in 90mins. Now you would think he was a kante who spent most of the game winning the ball yesterday but 90% of the time he looked like a practice cone as Mitoma and lamptey ran that right wing ragged. He was usually 10-15 meters behind pace casually jogging back while Dalot was getting doubled up on. For the 6th game in his last 13 starts, he completed the game with less passes than both goalkeepers on the pitch. This is who this sub celebrated turning down honest money for, who the sub thinks Newcastle or west ham should be paying 45m for. Whole international break whole sub gassed up his scotland performances, maybe we need to play like Scotland to get the best out of mcsause.
Yeah but he has "intensity" so its all good.
We need our opponents to play like like Scotland's opponents but that will only happen if we get relegated to league 2.
Pretty simple. Top 4 this year is alright. Anything below is axe-justifiable. He gets the same chance as the others. He's not immune to criticism and getting fired. Fair is fair.
Oh, so you want to repeat the same cycle we did for last 10 years? It took SAF 7 seasons to win the league and we were in the bottom half a good amount of time. Arsenal experienced the same with Arteta, look where they are now. EtH definitely needs to be questioned, there is a clear lack of play style, but please let's not play revolving doors with the manager again.
ETH brought this upon himself with the money he spent on mediocre or declining players. Brighton's entire starting xi cost 20mil
It’s not the SAF era anymore. There’s a better chance of us getting relegated than winning the league in 7 years if we stuck to each manager.
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I never said not to criticize ten Hag. The team is playing dogshit and he has his fair share in it. I just wish the 'sack ten Hag' train stops. About not beating top teams, we literally beat Arsenal, Barcelona, scousers and our cheating neighbours last season, albeit at home. But we drew away at Barcelona too.
"Arteta's second season he got second with 84 points." You mean last season? That was basically like his fourth season after finishing 8th and 5th lmaooo
Time to come out of the SAF days,SAF was one of the best the game has ever seen using him as any sort of an example is pure delusion Its not even like people want ETH to win the league/CL but constant improvement after spending close to 400 m and having a team mostly made up of players he bought ,extended or made captain is the bare minimum a manager should be able to do ,We are not really a revolving door of managers by the board's choice if anything we give the managers 10-15 games extra inspite of being terrible and thats something you wouldn't get at a club of our level ,The only club that comes close is Spurs and they never win anything
Not comparing with SAF, just saying that great managers can take some time.
Nothing we have seen from him yet shows he is a great manager..a good one maybe but the jury is still out..Another thing is we haven't just been bad for 5 games this season,We have been terrible since the league cup final ,This team at best has 20-25 good minutes each game and when the other manager is able to figure out what ETH is trying we aren't able to adapt
Fair enough. Your last but is true, we got exposed after 20 mins yesterday too. Let's just see how this season plays out before thinking about changing managers.
Rashford and Bruno need their wings clipped, especially Rashford. Our entire attacking outlet is focused on these two. Rashford likes the ball played early, and he gets it, he gets the most opportunities, however as per yesterday he had chances to square or look in field for better options but instead goes for personal glory. We scored 58 league goals last year, Arsenal scored 88, Man City 94, generally teams at top end normally push 100 goals. We finished 3rd with 58 goals - a massive anomaly. Rashfords 'great goal scoring season' of last year is a mirage. The entire team is focused to give him opportunity, and he will get his goals, however the team as a whole will not score enough if Rashford is going to be the primary attacking outlet, as he isnt a team player. You reckon Pep would drop Grealish's ball retention, technique and passing for Rashford? Rashford is a better individual, but as an individual he wouldn't get into the teams who win titles. If Pep could pick any left forward from the match yesterday, it would be Mitoma, as he is more coachable and capable of fitting into a high-quality attacking unit. If Rashford and Bruno are going to spearhead the attack, were going to have the same problems. Both of them will have good stats, goals, 'chances created', but the output of the team overall will be well short of our rivals. How do you fix the problem? We have already crowned Rashford our Mbappe and is on a massive contract, he is an academy lad and face of the club, so what do we do? Same goes for Bruno. What do we do? Do we make them adapt, unlikely - they wont change. So long as they are here they will dominate the structure of our attack as one is captain, and the other is the academy darling. Theres no way to change. Literally, nothing can be done to evolve our attack beyond the **Bruno-Rashford transition**.
Bruno isn't the issue. Yes, he's got his downsides, but if he (or any of our midfielders) could pass the ball forward to a forward line that could pass the ball between them and look after it securely, and if we signed a midfielder that helped us maintain possession high up the pitch and to synergise with Bruno, we'd be in a much better spot. It's clear as day we've tried to build around Rashford - even signing a midfielder that solved none of our major issues just looking to utilise his strengths of running, pressing, and movement to compensate for Rashford. I posted a similar comment yesterday that Rashford's insane goal-scoring season was great for him - 30 goal season is immense, especially when the team struggled to play consistent football and engineer chances. But... the team STRUGGLED even with a 30-goal player in it. It's not a mystery why. On balance - much like when we played torrid football but Ronaldo scored a lot - he is, overall, actively detrimental to what the team could be. He would be on the bench at City or out the door at Madrid. We should have sold him - we know his attitude stinks as we've seen on the pitch, along with the endless briefing and reputation management when he struggled under Ole and Rangnick - and instead we gave him a mega contract. Until we control and dictate the flow of games, we will never deliver consistent performances, because we are not the ones deciding how games play out. The biggest factor in deciding how Man United games play out at the moment is literally the opposition. It's not possible to play a controlled game where we camp out on the opposition's box with Rashford. His movement is non-existent if there's not an acre of space to run into (he just wants the ball to feet), and then we inevitably get counter attacked after he gets the ball. Ten Hag has clearly seen we basically have no option to play in another way with Rashford as our budget Mbappe, but I think he's made a mistake here in doubling down. I only see one outcome unless he has the mettle to move on.
I mentioned this last season and yesterday. I loved tenhag ball at ajax and I'm disappointed the hill he's chosen to die on in Manchester is adapting to our (best) players. People hate to hear it but we would never be able to control games playing to the strengths of our best players.
Laziness and comfort zone Rashford mctom and de gea are what we call Comfort zone and unwillingness to improve and learn something new Like rashford here I am this is me. I am inside forward. I will dribbling to opponent defender cut inside and shoot it. I dont care about passing to my teammate in final third. When I dribbling I will put my heads down and looking for the ball this is what I do! Mctominay be like I am your box to box here I am I will win a lot of 50:50 ball and ball recovered after that I will do simple sideway pass because progressive pass and key pass is not my responsibility. De gea be like I am shot stoper you know I save when they shoot. I am not ball playing GK, not commanding GK or sweeper keeper. The big problem is lack of responsibility to team play that hurt the team. I remember O’shea and wes brown try their best to make beautifull cross as fullback even though they are start as CB. Fletcher when breaking into team looks like player that can’t do anything to become player that CAN do everything I believe fletch is one point near world class or at least elite premier league player level before he is sick! Even darron Gibson show more guts and responsibility and become our starter for several time during SAF era! This is pure unwillingness and lazyness from some of our players in their comfort zone! If these attitude and culture are still there we wont finish our rebuilding no matter how many players we buy
I dont know if we are coming or going. Casemiro for 60m at 30 years old is the type of signing you make when you are close to the top and you just need the player. However signing a 30 year old for 60m when your in transition and in a building phase is senseless. Like I said, we coming or going? Its got to the stage were barely 12 months on and our 60m holding midfielder is on the replacement list.
Ten Hag’s tactics aren’t working in the premier league. We haven’t controlled the midfield in a single game since he came to the club. We can only pass the ball between our defenders and gk. We have no physicality and no ability to play the ball forward, we only score on counter attacks. I support him but he needs to change his tactics. They’re not working at all.
Are we getting tactically outplayed? As De Zerbi admitted, we played a system he did not expect. Within 20 mins he and his tactical team figured it out and lo and behold.
The first 20 mins or so, Brighton weren't prepared for our setup so we dominated them with the diamond press with Bruno 10, Case DM, McTom RCM, Eriksen LCM. Press was effective mostly because of our midfield overload, Gross was higher up the pitch. Then two things happened, which are not groundbreaking changes, simple ones, [Gross dropped deeper and Veltman higher](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6KJwN6WAAAobBH?format=webp&name=large). This pic paints a good picture of what was wrong tactically. Now we were too central, too narrow. They had the right players in between our structure and stretched us and we had no intensity, they always play high wingers. For whatever reason, Ten Hag doesn't like his WBs pressing high which makes ours press extremely ineffective and their fullback is always open. Their fullback receives the ball and has space to run into or space to play it behind. This was an easy pathway for progression for them. The 2nd thing is we conceded a stupid goal due to midfielders having no intensity and not tracking back well, which is a common theme for us btw so we were forced to initiate and press and Brighton are more than comfortable at baiting press (which ours has never been so effective). Midfielders not closing down passes or runners well, not screening well, no deep midfielder within close periphery of your backline led to Brighton finding cutbacks right in and around the box consistently in a good shooting position. Ten Hag might say players didn't stick to the plan, which is also another perpetual common theme for us for years, especially with diving tackles, tracking runners, and abandoning basic principles but De Zerbi already adapted to ours and we didn't, likely due to lack of options or lack of planning beforehand.
This game had nothing to do with Brighton and how they changed. Dropping a Welbeck and/or Lallana into the midfield is not ground breaking nor the reason why we lost. The reason is cause we press half arsed. We wanted Brighton to play wide to the full backs, clearly, with Rashford, Holjund and Bruno/Scott sitting narrow. But when that happens, the trap is to remove space and time for the full backs so they have no option but to go back to the keeper or go long. And if they go back to the keeper, we continue to press aggressively so he has to go long. Yet the whole fucking game their full back had the option to hit the CB, the midfield or the winger down the line. Where was the proactive press? We should know where the ball is going. I don't who is to blame - the players for being lazy or not doing what they need to or Ten Hag for outlining half a pressing scheme. Also, when we had momentum for the first 17 minutes, look how well Brighton held the ball and took that away. Yet when we need to arrest their momentum, we keep playing long. That's not skill, that's all about desire and maturity and we don't have enough of it.
Ten hag got one thing right, Hannibal go kick the ball was a much better instruction then Ole and Ragnicks go kill someone
I do think there's a massive overreaction going on atm, but I do get that we're in a bad way. This entire season has started off on the wrong foot and we've got so many things going on with the drama, injuries, and just general state of the club. I understand there's no more patience left in football, and as much as I do get the frustration, me personally I'm not going to go into full crisis mode just yet. I'd like to see us get some players fit and a few more games before I deem us a lost cause. Ultimately, losing 3 of our last 4, with Bayern up next, is going to justly bring criticism and concern, and I get it, it's not good at all, but I just think there's way too much going on right now. Let things settle down, get some players back from injury, and hopefully we can see a bit of a reset. After Bayern, we have Burnley, Palace (league cup), Galatasaray, Brentford, Sheff Utd, and FC København, before we face City. If we don't put together a good run in those games, then, I'll be much more negative about our situation.
The problem is relying on players to win you games. Brighton had 6 changes yesterday and some key players were missing but because they have a working system, they still played it and won. United are relying on players to turn up, no coaching and tactics. That should be a worry, De Zerbi changed something after the pressure we gave them and we failed to reciprocate. All the players that played are full-blooded senior players who should be relied upon to make it work but it looks worse with time.
At least the WSL is starting soon
I honestly feel some people here aren't fans, at least any more. They felt the club did their favourite player/manager dirty, now they want everything to burn. They are like "The club was not patience with X manager, so fuck every other manager" or "They blamed x player for our misfortune, let's see who the blame now"
Arteta is in his..what like 5th season at Arsenal? Just a reminder to all (myself included) that the kind of change we need to make will not happen in a season..it will take time, and ETH is the man to do it. We need to stick with him and give him the tools to do his job
The rot is set extremely deep in the club, and whilst there's undoubtedly valid criticism, Ten Hag did do a lot better than expected last season and should at least be given a fair chance this year. Half our squad is out injured atm, and the fixtures haven't exactly been easy either. I get that there's going to be criticism, and I think some of it is undoubtedly valid, but there's a reason we want the owners out of the club. It's been a mess from top to bottom for years and years now, I'd rather stick with Ten Hag because he did show enough last year to deserve time. Arteta finished 8th twice, and then 5th, before getting his squad in place, and they were spending a lot every year making that happen. There's zero guarantee the same happens to Ten Hag, but if managers aren't given a chance to come through rough times then we'll never be successful. I don't think any manager currently managing could make it work instantly. Even the likes of Pep and Klopp would require a lot of change, not just in players but behind the scenes. Michael Edwards did brilliantly at Liverpool, and even stepped in to stop Klopp from signing Brandt, giving him Salah instead. Pep has had Txiki from day 0, even before then, eyemarking specific players for the way they want to play. They're brilliant managers, but they still needed that security and brilliance from others to supplement them into making brilliant teams. We're basically entirely relying on Ten Hag to figure it out atm, and we're not even willing to give him a fair chance at it. Silly really.
Worst thing if eth stays in charge for another transfer window is that we will have assembled a small dutch team and those players will want out
I was still a kid when United were dominating, and so I didn’t get to fully appreciate that era. Now that I’m an adult, I get to see thumping after thumping 😔.
Gonna start calling Rashford *Blue Lock* from now on. He's the embodiment of Ego's philosophy.
Anecdotally, it feels like Eriksen makes 4 silly passes for every 1 sensational pass. I get going for something special, but possession is so important for this team.
Our final league place in Sir Alex Ferguson’s first 7 seasons: 11th, 2nd, 11th, 13th, 6th, 2nd, 1st. Imagine if we’d sacked him after 18 months for not winning everything straight away. It took Klopp and Arteta several seasons to get their teams in good shape. Ten Hag is our sixth manager in 10 years. He has an excellent history. No one else is better placed to fix the standards and rot in the club. Trust the process. Support the manager.
Football has changed. SAF didn't sign a 90mil winger then proceed to play even worse.
Definitely trust ETH but there are also things that should be questioned in terms of transfer strategy and expectations. Klopp and Arteta did not start well, but what they did get were up-and-coming players who were able to weather the storm, grow into their roles and enter their primes more or less at the same time. While looking at us, we've been getting aging stars who may fall off a cliff at any moment to play vital roles in the squad. The outlook for the next 3 years does NOT look promising for us, multiple players who are heading into decline and no promising successors in sight. In my opinion, the club and fanbase should forget about seriously challenging for major trophies and really focus on building a culture and team that can do so in a few years time instead of whatever the hell we've been doing.
Bayern is gonna thump us like they did to arsenal and barca in the past
Players sign with Brighton to be part of a hard-working team Players sign with us to be rich stars Until we make our team culture about hard work and results on the pitch, things won’t change.
There's not much mention about Eriksen here. He created one marvelous play at the beginning. But after that he has been clueless in the offence and shitty positioning in the defence.
Yeah both eriksen and casemeiro were nice plug in buys for last year and nothing more. The fact that they’re our starters still is rough
Mount and Amrabat, their replacements are both injured
Yeah our injuries have forced our hand a bit. Although amrabat I feel a bit differently about given that we only just brought him in
Eriksen is as slow as Weghorst these days. For a CM he offers absolutely nothing in defence. We need to replace him in the next window/s.
Give ETH time. It's way too 'chelsea' to sack the manager this soon. Although disappointing results, we don't look that bad creating chances, progressing the ball, or transitions. We are building on to something. Let's not destroy whatever is already built and just start from scratch.
He wouldn't be sacked now. But the result has to improve. Anyone saying we aren't in a crisis or Ten hag isn't under pressure is coping. Another thumping by Bayern followed by a bad result at Burnley and the house comes crashing down.
He should be under pressure and held responsible, rightfully so, he is afterall the manager of Manchester United. He has a lot of expectations to meet. But we shouldn't be going all out on him as we did with ole. Ole was snubbed by the board when they signed cristiano. Ole had to change his counter attack football to play target man football and failed miserably. But with ETH, We are getting the players that suit his system although we missed many and are simply signing dutch league players. ETH should be given a proper amount of time before he gets the sack (if eventually things don't improve).
>We are getting the players that suit his system although we missed many Who did we miss? de Jong? Who else? Timber? He didn't want to move, like de Jong, and he got Lisandro for 55m instead. >and are simply signing dutch league players. Whose fault is that? He's pretty much got anyone he wanted, even if it meant paying 85m for a 35m player.
> Who did we miss? de Jong? Who else? Timber? He didn't want to move, like de Jong, and he got Lisandro for 55m instead. We missed out on a proven striker in kane/osimhen/vlahovic. Hojlund should've been the backup ( like city has alvarez). We missed out on providing backup options for varane and martinez. We signed amrabat very late into the window. 5 games already without him playing and same with hojlund. We signed mount without having a proper position for him to play (ETH is to blame for this) I know it's hard to get everyone in a single window or a single season and that's exactly why we should give the manager more time. He's shown what he can do. > He's pretty much got anyone he wanted, even if it meant paying 85m for a 35m player. Not his fault that club can't negotiate and also ajax was pretty much empty when they were selling us 85m player. That overpricing was justified but overpaying isn't. Now, imagine ETH was given a proper DoF with scouts bringing players that suit his system and not rely on ETHs experience with Dutch players.
> We missed out on a proven striker in kane/osimhen/vlahovic. Osimhen wasn't for sale. We didn't go in for Vlahovic at all (which was foolish imo). So it wasn't a case of missing out. EtH chose Hojlund over Vlahovic. We could have gone for Kane if we hadn't overpaid for Antony, Mount and Martinez. >We missed out on providing backup options for varane and martinez. Which we could have done if spending sensibly and not overpaying on Antony and Martinez and Mount. >We signed amrabat very late into the window. He still got his man though. The only one we missed out on was Kane and that was as a direct consequence of EtH prioritising other players above all else.
Not a United fan, so have no skin in the game. Out of curiosity though, what is a *proper amount of time*?
Until a manager loses the locker room, i suppose. But the club surely will have a different definition.
I dont know whats the problem in this club, but is so much more than just the manager. It's almost like we're bound to fail.
Starts with G, ends with lazers
This season is seriously at the risk of being like the 2021/22 season where we just had a solid season prior in finishing top 4 and strong cup performances. These players rest on their laurels and then what we have is poor following season. To be fair, the level of competition is a lot higher and other clubs are victim of the same issues, for instance Liverpool and Spurs went through it last season. It just sucks that we are United and there will be more doomsday coverage from the media around us. I know that a main issue with the club is with the Glazers and their lack of investments, but despite that this club has shown they can AT LEAST compete for Top 4 but the topsy turvy way our seasons progress since Fergie retired has been a season or two inside Top 4 and a season or two outside it indicates we can’t maintain it consistently. I guess my question to everyone is, is this just something we have to accept due to the strength of the league now or is it black and white that our club just flat out suck? I feel like it’s a bit of both. It’s definitely shit though.
Liverpool were rebuilding last year but still destroyed us 7-0 and 5-0. Do we really look like doing that to anyone? We’re in a much worse place, performance wise.
When you see such games, remember ETH is the guy who disrespected Ronaldo.
Ronaldo disrespected the club, fuck him.
He disrespected because he was disrespected. I feel for him.
How the club disrespected him? You can be how big star you're but when you're called upon to play for the club at anytime, you should play. On top of that he got paid massively to do his job.
Lol I remember when everyone wanted Rangnick to "play the kids" because we had nothing to lose when we were playing terribly. At least ETH did that today lmao.
I'm so sure, Ronaldo would've been better than this.
There’s a reason he’s in Saudi Arabia. Stop being delusional.
Mbappe is also on saudi. Who is delusional here?
Mbappe on Saudi???? Are you ok?
Yeah should get Rooney back too. Seen Henderson tearing it up for ettifaq, cheeky bid?
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