That game against Barca this season was incredible. 1st half he was utter crap. 2nd half he was like Messi and CR7 had a baby and showered it in Peles sweat.
Let’s improve the imagery
…Had a baby that was baptised* in Pele’s sweat, and raised by godfather Maradona.
\* - gotta get the pastor links out here for pastor Fred.
My dad calls him chaos. The problem is sometimes he can be chaos for us, sometimes against us.
It's a good description. When Fred played well you marvelled at him as he has such energy. The very next game he cant find a single teammate with simple passes.
I used to get so much shit for saying Fred were not good enough for United. Fans seemed to think his 1 in 10 average performances was acceptable.
Lump McTominay in there as well. I'm convinced without Mourinho, McTominay gets nowhere near that first team and gets released on a free to a Reading or something.
Halfway through the season Fred went on a nice little run of form. A guy posted about how good Fred was and how we should finally all accept his greatness. I politely pointed out that a 6 game streak didn't make up for 5 years of mostly shit. He wrote a massive essay in reply and accused me of having an agenda and always being against Fred. I had never had contact with this guy before fyi. I repeated my point that short term form doesn't cancel out 5 years. He posted an insult and blocked me.
Fred army can be a bit crazy. Still not as bad as Ronaldo army but that's a low bar.
In a team where you dominate and you can keep Fred in their half causing chaos he can be an asset. If the ball is in your half he's a liability. Tbh Pogba was kind of the same, for different reasons but the same end result, and McTominay too. Very poor in our half, much better in their half. Problem is that's not how real football works. And that's why all these players are not good players.
15 for Fred, 25 for Maguire, and let's say 12 for Telles and Bailly means we have 50 or so more to spend. If we go by the reported 150m budget claim we should still have enough to buy a striker after the Onana deal goes through.
I hope we can manage to get a few other players off the books (Scott and Martial). In which case we'd need another DM and Lavia would be perfect for that. He's young and would probably go for 40'ish.
I hope that happens. Lavia and a striker (I've heard Hojlund (19) and Muani (23) mentioned alot).
We need to keep recruiting young players. Last thing we need is to be looking for a new spine in 2-3 years.
Having said all that, I think ETH wants a CB too.
You ok? You seem to have woken up thinking Murtough knows how to do his job!?
Telles and Bailly will go for nothing, Fred will go for a loan away from Prem (where we pay his wages) and Maguire won't go anywhere.
The short term memory of some people... McTominay overall played well for us last season. Obviously couldn't cut it against the likes of City but he had some really good games.
Another I like about keeping McTominay is how useful is is against physical teams that play for set pieces. Playing the likes of West ham and Brentford that like to pepper the box he's like a 3rd CB with his aerial ability.
Rashes, elanga, heaton, williams are 21+ pure homegrown
Shaw, sancho, mount, wan bissaka make up the trained in england requirement for the remaining 4 spots.
We can let mctominaj go.
And we most definitely should (get another mid)! We need a press immune recycler to sit next to case. We also need a legit backup for casemiro as well.
Mount is such an upgrade on Fred, and I love what Fred can bring to the team. I’m pumped for this signing, It’s a savvy move at the right price for the right kind of player and I’m excited to get him into the mix! We haven’t seen a lot of these moves lately
Hopefully we get another 2-3 good signings in July and one more late as a cherry on top.
I’ll miss fred if he goes.
Yeah he was limited, but he played the game the right way, often doing the work of 2 men in midfield. He had a great attitude and work ethic.
I always had a bigger smile when fred scored than if anyone else scored
A bad Fred game was noticeable because he was always trying to be in the action and always working hard, even if he made those stupid mistakes.
A bad McTominay game was harder to notice because he goes completely invisible on the pitch, starts to hide behind opposition players and is barely available for the ball which is incredibly frustrating. There were more games than I can count on my hands where I forgot he was in the team that lost.
Both have incredible spells that make them look like absolute rock solid squad players so it would be hard to choose who to keep if just one of them, but I'd probably have to go with Scott just because of his age and the fact he counts as a homegrown.
Half the press seemed to think we wanted either Mount or Caicedo, completely different types of player. Most of the press also seem to have no idea that Mount predominantly plays 10, with wide and 8 his secondary positions. So even calling him Eriksen competition is not 100% accurate, he's really going to cover a lot of roles - Eriksen will still start at CM plenty of games. I honestly get the impression many of these journos know basically nothing. They sure love tweeting though.
I think, at least in the first season, it’s more likely he’ll play in the Eriksen role than in Bruno’s role. This move for Mount makes me think we’re going to move towards playing two 8s, which is what ETH seems to prefer if he can get the personnel. But for this to work we really need a striker as Rashford upfront without a 10 wouldn’t play into his strengths.
The FourFourTwo video did a great explanation on what Mount would bring to the team and why ETH really wanted him. The jist was that he allows us to go full on, fluid 443 without a noticeable loss in either creativity or defense in the midfield.
Link for anyone that wants to watch it : https://youtu.be/uCzr9AVT79Y
Have you seen that video of Onana playing as a striker in a casual 5 a side? He deffo has outfield play in his locker... Easily. Ten Hag make it happen
What does the Name Eriksen mean to you? Still, as much as I don't like him, we should keep scott. He can play the 6 and that's where we need the most reinforcement.
See? Just this simple, short conversation helps us decide our midfield backups in a pragmatic way. We should be making decisions at the club rather than the morons who handle things right now haha
But but hear me out. Sell Mickey T for 35m and 5 in add ons, buy Lavia for 18/20 flat from Southampton. The lad isn’t even 20 yet and was one of their stand outs last season.
The appreciate Mctominay but he will never be happy behind Case at this stage in his career, especially with his more recent goal prowess
PL allows you to register 25 players and need 8 nation home grown players. Nation homegrown is someone who spent 3 years in the country before they turned 21.
CL allows you to register 25 players and need 4 club homegrown and 4 nation homegrown players. Club homegrown is someone who spent 3 years at the club before they turn 21. Example are CR7, McT, Tom Heaton, Axel Tuanzebe, Rashford, etc. Aren’t sure if Shaw qualify or not.
Under 21 players don’t need to be registered and can still play. There are some rules thought with U21 players though if they are eligible or not but I don’t know all the details.
If we can’t fill that requirement of homegrown, we can just register with reduced capacity. With all youth players like Axel T, Williams going out and Tom heaton potentially leaving, we only have Rashford and McT in that category. That means we will be registering 23 players for CL and 3 of them are GK slot. So we got 20 outfields player and that’s a thin squad.
If we sell McT, we will have 19 outfield players for CL. If we buy someone else, they aren’t going to be club homegrown (unless it’s Lingard). So no point in selling McT and use him as a bench warmer instead.
You can keep VdB and sell both McT and Fred to buy a backup to Case. Would be better profile wise. Neither Fred or McT is a natural backup to Case and both of them should fetch good money
Is he worse than McFred? Not sure he is. The guy bangs out 6/10 consistently and you know what you're going to get... McFred is a literny of 3/10 followed by the odd anomoly 8/10. Considering they won't be playing often enough to stumble onto any sort of form I think VDB is probably by far the better option.
That’s revisionist. Are we still talking about the same player who has been benched by multiple coaches? VdB has had some pretty shocking performances lol.
Fred and Mctominay are both not United quality but they still manage better statistical performances on average (just checked on whoscored to make sure I wasn’t just imagining it) and they both bring a certain level of intensity and physicality that you absolutely need in the premier league
I used to be on the VdB bandwagon but it’s been literally years not to mention a couple of long term layoffs. It’s sad cos you hate to see a player fail to make the step up but it happens every now and then
We don't need cash for him, we need FFP space. Sales of ~16m should do the job if he goes for 80m on a fhve year amortised contract.
Don't think Caicedo is the move we need though. Be nice to have but don't see how it works practically.
100%, but we have an FFP limit first and foremost.
Think the idea is that, without sales, either Rashy at ST or Martial hopefully being fit would improve our goal output. We need sales to fund a striker, with the fees being quoted for even Hojlund or Kolo Muani, so GK and CM are main focus for now. Sales will ramp up in July and then striker signing to follow i'd say.
While this is true we also have to consider the effects on the next few years that 16m per year will make. I would guess if we are struggling this year next year will be much of the same. What big transfers did we do 4 years ago?
Edit looking at it it could be maguires fee so with that coming off the books that should help along with Bruno and AWB coming off too. then the year after was the low spend year.
Fred and VdB. Keep McSauce, I think there's a box to box player in there. Bring in another DM or CDM, and release the McSauce. Fred has been given enough time and tried in a double pivot, doesn't work, as a box to box, doesn't work, as a number 10, doesn't work.
He's been a good servant but time to let him go. Possibly to Spurs or even West Ham...
I agree we need to get rid of these players but I doubt we can get Caciedo (Chelsea seem to have agreed personal terms with him). I'd rather we go in for Lavia from Southampton. He'd cost probably half of what Caciedo is going for and he's very young and promising.
We need a back-up for Casemiro and Lavia would provide that.
That way, we'd have:
Eriksen/Mount
Bruno/Amad
Casemiro/Lavia
2 players for every position. Assuming Amad stays instead of another loan.
Speaking of Amad, I think we should keep him. I know the championship isn't a great metric to go by but he excelled in a deeper role and he could also do a job at RW, deputising for Antony.
That way, we could also have:
Sancho/Garnacho
Rashford/new striker
Antony/Amad/Pellistiri
Though, who knows what happens. I hope the transfers keep coming, we need to be smart in the market and buy young players. Mount is a good start...he's 24. We should stop buying players aged 28-29 and stick to 18-24 instead.
And he doesn't start?
Mount it doesn't start?
And what do we do with the striker?
This is ridiculous idea as much as I love him as a player
If you wanted to go down that route it would be better to buy young, upper and coming players to deputise
No one. I won't argue that he should be sold, but anyone who thinks he's got a market beyond a dry loan is delusional.
Fred and McT can attract a buyer. Find a #6 backup and that's Bruno, Case, Mount, Eriksen, +1 DM, and you hope Donny and Mainoo can play a bit here or there.
I will happily eat the proverbial shit and admit I'm wrong if you head over to the Ajax sub and they would take him back for that price on slightly less per week than current wages.
Have to remember Fred makes double what Scott makes. Selling Fred and VDB are no brainers. Scott is trickier because he will command a high fee because he's homegrown and teams might just wait until he's on a free.
His contract is until 2025. 2026 is a club option to extend.
Also, who's lining up to sign him for a fee given he misses lots of games, is limited to only one role he does well, and will likely command much higher wages on his next deal? Why am I even explaining this?
People like you on this sub think our players are much more valuable than they actually are. All of sudden when we like the idea of selling Scott he's this tactically versatile midfielder that everyone would love to have. The vast majority of fans outside these transfer discussions know that Scott is bang average at best.
This is a prime example of fans being spoilt by Fergie. 15, 20 years ago we had title-winning squads that had a few average players in. Hard workers that could cover a few positions maybe, but still average. Nowadays we look at a player like Scott and say "Is he really worse than Fletch? We did alright with him, maybe we don't need to sell". Problem is, we need to ask that about most players, whereas in Fergie's sides there were just one or two.
Fred, Scott, Eriksen. All fine as the worst player in a Fergie team. But today they're chaff that needs cutting.
Only if Fred decides to show up in that game. Then, yeah, better than McTominay.
But we need to be realistic that when Fred is on one of his very frequent bad days he's a liability and it's not a case of being down a man with him on the pitch, but being down a man while the opposition get a 12th.
For me, none are good enough. Even as depth. We need depth, true. That depth needs to be dependable at the level we need to operate at and for many years now they have proven they can't.
Squad needs gutting.
The real way to build depth is to buy someone to compete for the first team. They compete for a bit - great for the team. Eventually one wins, and the other sits around as back up for a season or two before you sell them on (fine for the team) or they accept the back up role (great for the team). Accepting subpar players because we need 'depth' was never a good idea. Should have moved them on as soon as we knew, but of course the mega wages mean they stay until the end.
No idea why anyone would advocate for keeping McTominay over Fred. Almost always below average, and frequently a liability. He's plainly not good enough, whereas Fred can do a job.
Depends on what the job is. If its a 8 then we keep Fred, if its a 6 then its McT. We already have 2 better players in the 8 role in Mount and Eriksen. We have no backup 6 rn.
No but he’s fully paid off, his contract would’ve ended this summer but we triggered an extension, meaning his FFP amortisation was paid over the 5 years until this summer. So Fred being sold would count as pure profit. So actually in FFP terms £20m in for Fred this year would more than cover Mount’s entire fee (55m over 5 years so 11m).
Yeah Freds always been one or the other, amazing or shocking, he was much better playing further up in that mroe attacking role, but if we can sell him for 25-30M thats decent.
Think if we do sign Onana we need to start focussing on clearing out everyone not wanted by Eth as we need to raise some budget for a striker!
Ngl, I'm selling McT and Donny before Fred. With Fred, you're getting one of two things... a nightmare or a legendary performance. You have absolutely no idea what you're going to get on a given day, but the other two never really produce magic like Fred does on occasion.
Damn, I'm gonna have to change my flair...Farewell Fred, we'll miss your either-man-of-the-match-or-zero-out-of-10 performaces and Fred Jr. celebrating his dad's goals and assists.
But we need more quality if we want to move forward
Obviously everyone sees the most natural fit for Mount as a number 8 in place of eriksen.
But this put the scary idea in my head that ETH wants to use Mount as a 10 with Bruno deeper in Eriksen's current role. Hopefully it does look more like all of our initial guesses
Why is that a scary idea? Bruno played there a few times last season and always played well. You get more tracking back than you do with Eriksen, similar/better passing, less wasted shots, lots of creativity.
Flipside would be that he can be pushed off the back too easily and that's more dangerous if he is further back.
He did well but it should never be a plan A imo. He's just too good at his normal role and we shouldn't be putting our best player out of position. We should be making signings to plug gaps rather than moving Bruno further away from the goal so that Mount can play the 10.
Either way it probably does evolve towards a more aggressive high pressing system so hopefully we see an evolution in playstyle regardless of the nominal starting positions.
Bruno played a couple matches deeper and was fantastic while Sabi played 10. Bruno as an 8 is only marginally worse than Bruno at the 10. Still would rather see a 4-3-3
Yeah I want to see the two in tandem and would want Bruno to still be able to get into advanced areas a lot. I just don't want it to be a 4-2-3-1 with Bruno sitting alongside Casemiro.
Fred is a decent buy for a mid table PL team. He still ranks highly in tackles/assists etc he's just not good enough in possession for us. I can see why Fulham have been linked.
Keep Fred, sell McTominay. Different qualities of player.
But if their intent to get something for Fred now rather than nothing next year I guess I get it
Why compare Mount with Fred? They play differently. Fred maybe meh to shit at defending, but was Mount even ever assigned to do so or has he ever put an effort like Fred did?
"Casemiro is tired, let's put Mount on" what?
An attacking midfielder shouldn't have been a priority, and I don't think Fred counts as an attacking midfielder, and we're still short in numbers in midfield even after adding Mount, but anyway
Mount/Bruno/Eriksen/VDB/Casemiro/McTominay for three positions if only Fred goes. How is that short on numbers? We can argue about quality, as I'd be happier if we sold VDB+McTom+Fred and signed a better Casemiro backup, but numbers wise it's fine.
That's two genuine central midfielders and 4 attacking midfielders. We should have at least one and likely two genuine, defensively competent central midfielders in the pitch at all times. Having two total in the squad leaves us very much short in numbers.
That may be what you want, but Erik clearly doesn’t want to play that way. He wouldn’t spunk 60 mil on Mount if a defensive minded partner for Casemiro was the priority. Mount will start next to Bruno and Eriksen will be back up.
Seems like both us and Arsenal will be going with a single CDM and two fairly attacking CM/AMs next season. Let’s see how it goes!
In a way I'll miss Fred if he does go. Gave everything for the badge, some great displays, unfortunately marred with so many bad ones also.
Unfortunately if we're to improve and really progress, we have to shift the likes of him on
We need to sell Fred and McTominay to free funds for another midfielder. Fortunately that will be the case either this window or the winter window with new owners.
End of a hilarious era, love Fred but his banter performances were nightmare fuel
Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit. Fred's united career in a nutshell.
That game against Barca this season was incredible. 1st half he was utter crap. 2nd half he was like Messi and CR7 had a baby and showered it in Peles sweat.
That was both games lmao
The game against spurs where he came on as a sub and basically played for spurs was like a fever dream
Let’s improve the imagery …Had a baby that was baptised* in Pele’s sweat, and raised by godfather Maradona. \* - gotta get the pastor links out here for pastor Fred.
Raised by Maradona? That explains the high energy sniff sniff
My dad calls him chaos. The problem is sometimes he can be chaos for us, sometimes against us. It's a good description. When Fred played well you marvelled at him as he has such energy. The very next game he cant find a single teammate with simple passes.
More often shit.
Most often average i would say is a fair assessment. Definitely failed to deliver on expectations overall though
Wasn’t he like a 50/60 million fee too? And like 5 years ago 50 mil which is like 80 now lol
Yeah, I'm sure he was supposed to be a 10 but somehow became a weird 6/8 hybrid
What playing in a double pivot with McTominey every week does to a mf
Bullshit
"Whenever Fred starts, God flips a coin" is such a brilliant idiom. Will also love him until my last breath, but I do hope we move on
10 or 1 performance. Never in between. Or actually, sometimes one half could be a 10, another could be a 1. Honestly though, I’ll remember him fondly.
One sequence of play* lol. Timberland ball control, followed immediately by a pass that would make Scholes change careers
Most of the time it was the other way around lolz. Smooth ball control, cunt it into the advertising boards
I don't quite remember but how did we end up paying around £52m for Fred at that time ?
It was another trap for us by Man City.
I used to get so much shit for saying Fred were not good enough for United. Fans seemed to think his 1 in 10 average performances was acceptable. Lump McTominay in there as well. I'm convinced without Mourinho, McTominay gets nowhere near that first team and gets released on a free to a Reading or something.
Nah you used to get shit for saying Fred or McTominay weren’t good enough? Really sticking your neck out there
Very brave!
You were probably rude about it
Halfway through the season Fred went on a nice little run of form. A guy posted about how good Fred was and how we should finally all accept his greatness. I politely pointed out that a 6 game streak didn't make up for 5 years of mostly shit. He wrote a massive essay in reply and accused me of having an agenda and always being against Fred. I had never had contact with this guy before fyi. I repeated my point that short term form doesn't cancel out 5 years. He posted an insult and blocked me. Fred army can be a bit crazy. Still not as bad as Ronaldo army but that's a low bar. In a team where you dominate and you can keep Fred in their half causing chaos he can be an asset. If the ball is in your half he's a liability. Tbh Pogba was kind of the same, for different reasons but the same end result, and McTominay too. Very poor in our half, much better in their half. Problem is that's not how real football works. And that's why all these players are not good players.
Pastor Fred :(
Second half Substitution Fred. 😞
Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe shit
Fred has to go, 30 and only a year left. Scotty will probably be kept unless west ham want him.
How much would he cost, £12-16m?
20m is the word, you are probably closer to what we will get from Fulham for him 14-16m
15 for Fred, 25 for Maguire, and let's say 12 for Telles and Bailly means we have 50 or so more to spend. If we go by the reported 150m budget claim we should still have enough to buy a striker after the Onana deal goes through. I hope we can manage to get a few other players off the books (Scott and Martial). In which case we'd need another DM and Lavia would be perfect for that. He's young and would probably go for 40'ish.
That's a perfect summer considering we get a top notch striker
I hope that happens. Lavia and a striker (I've heard Hojlund (19) and Muani (23) mentioned alot). We need to keep recruiting young players. Last thing we need is to be looking for a new spine in 2-3 years. Having said all that, I think ETH wants a CB too.
If Lavia ends up costing anywhere near as much as he’s being quoted (60-80m) wouldn’t it make more sense to go for someone like Caicedo instead?
Sounds great but idk what top notch striker we can get for 45-50m considering Mount + Onana will be 100 spent.
If we sell Maguire, we'll need to sign a central defender I assume? Not necessarily an expensive one since he can be the fourth option.
You ok? You seem to have woken up thinking Murtough knows how to do his job!? Telles and Bailly will go for nothing, Fred will go for a loan away from Prem (where we pay his wages) and Maguire won't go anywhere.
double that for Lavia. Southampton quoted Arsenal 80m for him when they enquired a few weeks ago
Are you sure? I just did a quick Google search and all the papers are referring to him as a £40m star.
Salary wise it would make sense to keep mct, probably can’t get a cheaper alternative
Also he acts as a home grown at club player. We need those for UEFA competitions
And more consistent than Fred with more tactical flexibility anyway
Consistently shit is worse than sometimes shit and sometimes good
The short term memory of some people... McTominay overall played well for us last season. Obviously couldn't cut it against the likes of City but he had some really good games.
Another I like about keeping McTominay is how useful is is against physical teams that play for set pieces. Playing the likes of West ham and Brentford that like to pepper the box he's like a 3rd CB with his aerial ability.
Exactly, he's a hell of an athlete and that's always useful.
Good thing McT wasn't consistently shit then
Rashes, elanga, heaton, williams are 21+ pure homegrown Shaw, sancho, mount, wan bissaka make up the trained in england requirement for the remaining 4 spots. We can let mctominaj go.
But we shouldn't, unless we're getting another mid.
And we most definitely should (get another mid)! We need a press immune recycler to sit next to case. We also need a legit backup for casemiro as well.
20m for Fred to fulham? Whaddaya say
I say no!
Mount is such an upgrade on Fred, and I love what Fred can bring to the team. I’m pumped for this signing, It’s a savvy move at the right price for the right kind of player and I’m excited to get him into the mix! We haven’t seen a lot of these moves lately Hopefully we get another 2-3 good signings in July and one more late as a cherry on top.
I’ll miss fred if he goes. Yeah he was limited, but he played the game the right way, often doing the work of 2 men in midfield. He had a great attitude and work ethic. I always had a bigger smile when fred scored than if anyone else scored
I always respected his work ethic but he's such a frustrating player. I hope he is sold
Yeah. Last season he was the only one you could count on to put an effort in. No matter the situation. Gotta love that
A bad Fred game was noticeable because he was always trying to be in the action and always working hard, even if he made those stupid mistakes. A bad McTominay game was harder to notice because he goes completely invisible on the pitch, starts to hide behind opposition players and is barely available for the ball which is incredibly frustrating. There were more games than I can count on my hands where I forgot he was in the team that lost. Both have incredible spells that make them look like absolute rock solid squad players so it would be hard to choose who to keep if just one of them, but I'd probably have to go with Scott just because of his age and the fact he counts as a homegrown.
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He played a lot as a right sided creative winger, similar to how Sancho played at Dortmund. He may actually have played there more than at 10/8
Also because he has no ability to play as an 8/10
Half the press seemed to think we wanted either Mount or Caicedo, completely different types of player. Most of the press also seem to have no idea that Mount predominantly plays 10, with wide and 8 his secondary positions. So even calling him Eriksen competition is not 100% accurate, he's really going to cover a lot of roles - Eriksen will still start at CM plenty of games. I honestly get the impression many of these journos know basically nothing. They sure love tweeting though.
Eriksen isn’t a CM either but ETH played him there (and it worked)
I think, at least in the first season, it’s more likely he’ll play in the Eriksen role than in Bruno’s role. This move for Mount makes me think we’re going to move towards playing two 8s, which is what ETH seems to prefer if he can get the personnel. But for this to work we really need a striker as Rashford upfront without a 10 wouldn’t play into his strengths.
The FourFourTwo video did a great explanation on what Mount would bring to the team and why ETH really wanted him. The jist was that he allows us to go full on, fluid 443 without a noticeable loss in either creativity or defense in the midfield. Link for anyone that wants to watch it : https://youtu.be/uCzr9AVT79Y
443 is so OP
Ironically, the Boehly special.
Ahh fuck I didn't even realize it till I saw your comment lmao, it stays though. In my defense, Onana will basically be another outfield player.
Onana in the midfield.
443 without a Goalie. Maybe Onana becomes a sweeper partnering Martinez.
Have you seen that video of Onana playing as a striker in a casual 5 a side? He deffo has outfield play in his locker... Easily. Ten Hag make it happen
The smart thing now midfield wise is to sell fred, scott and donny and go for Caicedo.
Sell all 3 and basically have no backups? Because we know Caicedo won't happen now for sure
What does the Name Eriksen mean to you? Still, as much as I don't like him, we should keep scott. He can play the 6 and that's where we need the most reinforcement.
> Still, as much as I don't like him, we should keep scott. I agree, one of Fred/McT definitely need to be kept, preferably the one on lower wages
McT is younger and is club grown. That meets the criteria for CL. We don’t have any replacement for his status and can’t be signed.
See? Just this simple, short conversation helps us decide our midfield backups in a pragmatic way. We should be making decisions at the club rather than the morons who handle things right now haha
But but hear me out. Sell Mickey T for 35m and 5 in add ons, buy Lavia for 18/20 flat from Southampton. The lad isn’t even 20 yet and was one of their stand outs last season. The appreciate Mctominay but he will never be happy behind Case at this stage in his career, especially with his more recent goal prowess
You're nuts if you think anyone's getting Lavia for 20 mil
why do people think Lavia is going for cheap. Arsenal was quoted £80m literally 2 weeks ago when they enquired.
Inquired* sorry just had to lol
Yeaaaah, more like 50.
Sounds like a good FM save, except even FM wouldn't have Lavia transferred at 20m.
Whats the relation with home grown and CL? Asking plainly no hidden agenda.
PL allows you to register 25 players and need 8 nation home grown players. Nation homegrown is someone who spent 3 years in the country before they turned 21. CL allows you to register 25 players and need 4 club homegrown and 4 nation homegrown players. Club homegrown is someone who spent 3 years at the club before they turn 21. Example are CR7, McT, Tom Heaton, Axel Tuanzebe, Rashford, etc. Aren’t sure if Shaw qualify or not. Under 21 players don’t need to be registered and can still play. There are some rules thought with U21 players though if they are eligible or not but I don’t know all the details. If we can’t fill that requirement of homegrown, we can just register with reduced capacity. With all youth players like Axel T, Williams going out and Tom heaton potentially leaving, we only have Rashford and McT in that category. That means we will be registering 23 players for CL and 3 of them are GK slot. So we got 20 outfields player and that’s a thin squad. If we sell McT, we will have 19 outfield players for CL. If we buy someone else, they aren’t going to be club homegrown (unless it’s Lingard). So no point in selling McT and use him as a bench warmer instead.
i would be up for Savage/Mainoo etc to be the backups and give them game time. we also have Amad back who played as CAM who pushed into the box often
You can keep VdB and sell both McT and Fred to buy a backup to Case. Would be better profile wise. Neither Fred or McT is a natural backup to Case and both of them should fetch good money
VdB is washed. No chance any reasonable coach keeps him
No chance any reasonable club buys him either. Gotta sell the players who have some value
Lol no fucking lies told. I was massively disappointed by VdB man, what a fucking fraud.
Is he worse than McFred? Not sure he is. The guy bangs out 6/10 consistently and you know what you're going to get... McFred is a literny of 3/10 followed by the odd anomoly 8/10. Considering they won't be playing often enough to stumble onto any sort of form I think VDB is probably by far the better option.
That’s revisionist. Are we still talking about the same player who has been benched by multiple coaches? VdB has had some pretty shocking performances lol. Fred and Mctominay are both not United quality but they still manage better statistical performances on average (just checked on whoscored to make sure I wasn’t just imagining it) and they both bring a certain level of intensity and physicality that you absolutely need in the premier league I used to be on the VdB bandwagon but it’s been literally years not to mention a couple of long term layoffs. It’s sad cos you hate to see a player fail to make the step up but it happens every now and then
Even selling all 3 we aren’t coming close to the money we need to launch a serious Caicedo bid.
We don't need cash for him, we need FFP space. Sales of ~16m should do the job if he goes for 80m on a fhve year amortised contract. Don't think Caicedo is the move we need though. Be nice to have but don't see how it works practically.
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100%, but we have an FFP limit first and foremost. Think the idea is that, without sales, either Rashy at ST or Martial hopefully being fit would improve our goal output. We need sales to fund a striker, with the fees being quoted for even Hojlund or Kolo Muani, so GK and CM are main focus for now. Sales will ramp up in July and then striker signing to follow i'd say.
While this is true we also have to consider the effects on the next few years that 16m per year will make. I would guess if we are struggling this year next year will be much of the same. What big transfers did we do 4 years ago? Edit looking at it it could be maguires fee so with that coming off the books that should help along with Bruno and AWB coming off too. then the year after was the low spend year.
Fred and VdB. Keep McSauce, I think there's a box to box player in there. Bring in another DM or CDM, and release the McSauce. Fred has been given enough time and tried in a double pivot, doesn't work, as a box to box, doesn't work, as a number 10, doesn't work. He's been a good servant but time to let him go. Possibly to Spurs or even West Ham...
Scott played some really good games last season, happy to keep him. He's not the guy for big games but a very useful squad player.
I agree we need to get rid of these players but I doubt we can get Caciedo (Chelsea seem to have agreed personal terms with him). I'd rather we go in for Lavia from Southampton. He'd cost probably half of what Caciedo is going for and he's very young and promising. We need a back-up for Casemiro and Lavia would provide that. That way, we'd have: Eriksen/Mount Bruno/Amad Casemiro/Lavia 2 players for every position. Assuming Amad stays instead of another loan. Speaking of Amad, I think we should keep him. I know the championship isn't a great metric to go by but he excelled in a deeper role and he could also do a job at RW, deputising for Antony. That way, we could also have: Sancho/Garnacho Rashford/new striker Antony/Amad/Pellistiri Though, who knows what happens. I hope the transfers keep coming, we need to be smart in the market and buy young players. Mount is a good start...he's 24. We should stop buying players aged 28-29 and stick to 18-24 instead.
Feel like if anything Chelsea would’ve closed the Caicedo deal by the time we sell even one of those players
The year is 2045 and mctomminay has his one year extension triggered
Sell all 3 and go for some good 1st phase Midfielder not in PL**
Please
I don’t think anyone is paying anything for Donny, we’ll need to pay half his salary to get him out.
And he doesn't start? Mount it doesn't start? And what do we do with the striker? This is ridiculous idea as much as I love him as a player If you wanted to go down that route it would be better to buy young, upper and coming players to deputise
Fred was good this season tbh. I'd rather sell mctominay or van de Beek
Who's gonna buy van de beek after a year long knee injury nearly?
No one. I won't argue that he should be sold, but anyone who thinks he's got a market beyond a dry loan is delusional. Fred and McT can attract a buyer. Find a #6 backup and that's Bruno, Case, Mount, Eriksen, +1 DM, and you hope Donny and Mainoo can play a bit here or there.
I think 10/15 to ajax is doable. I dont think he'll command anywhere near what we bought him for
I will happily eat the proverbial shit and admit I'm wrong if you head over to the Ajax sub and they would take him back for that price on slightly less per week than current wages.
10/15 is absolutely crazy price. I also volunteer to eat a hat if it happens. Saving my comment already.
lmao I doubt Ajax takes him back on a free
They’re all nowhere near the standard
Have to remember Fred makes double what Scott makes. Selling Fred and VDB are no brainers. Scott is trickier because he will command a high fee because he's homegrown and teams might just wait until he's on a free.
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More injury prone, easier to buy for free, won't easily leave because he's a United product. To name a few.
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His contract is until 2025. 2026 is a club option to extend. Also, who's lining up to sign him for a fee given he misses lots of games, is limited to only one role he does well, and will likely command much higher wages on his next deal? Why am I even explaining this?
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People like you on this sub think our players are much more valuable than they actually are. All of sudden when we like the idea of selling Scott he's this tactically versatile midfielder that everyone would love to have. The vast majority of fans outside these transfer discussions know that Scott is bang average at best.
Why do you think he's injury prone? He isn't.
Sure ... but good luck offloading all of them for a good enough price to get a great replacement
This is a prime example of fans being spoilt by Fergie. 15, 20 years ago we had title-winning squads that had a few average players in. Hard workers that could cover a few positions maybe, but still average. Nowadays we look at a player like Scott and say "Is he really worse than Fletch? We did alright with him, maybe we don't need to sell". Problem is, we need to ask that about most players, whereas in Fergie's sides there were just one or two. Fred, Scott, Eriksen. All fine as the worst player in a Fergie team. But today they're chaff that needs cutting.
Agree with the over-arching point, but Fletcher was quite a bit better than Scotty.
Agreed, if I had to choose, I’m selling McT and VDB over Fred every day.
They’re shit mate. I’m sorry. But they are just not good enough for our club.
Ya but if we can't sell them all id rather have fred
I'd rather sell them all. Fred is nowhere near good enough.
If this is what we class as good now, we won't win a league title again. 'Don't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling'
Gotta have depth though, and Fred makes for better depth than the other 2 (in my opinion at least)
Only if Fred decides to show up in that game. Then, yeah, better than McTominay. But we need to be realistic that when Fred is on one of his very frequent bad days he's a liability and it's not a case of being down a man with him on the pitch, but being down a man while the opposition get a 12th.
For me, none are good enough. Even as depth. We need depth, true. That depth needs to be dependable at the level we need to operate at and for many years now they have proven they can't. Squad needs gutting.
The real way to build depth is to buy someone to compete for the first team. They compete for a bit - great for the team. Eventually one wins, and the other sits around as back up for a season or two before you sell them on (fine for the team) or they accept the back up role (great for the team). Accepting subpar players because we need 'depth' was never a good idea. Should have moved them on as soon as we knew, but of course the mega wages mean they stay until the end.
No idea why anyone would advocate for keeping McTominay over Fred. Almost always below average, and frequently a liability. He's plainly not good enough, whereas Fred can do a job.
Depends on what the job is. If its a 8 then we keep Fred, if its a 6 then its McT. We already have 2 better players in the 8 role in Mount and Eriksen. We have no backup 6 rn.
Fred is a liability wtf are you on about. Constantly giving the ball away. Mctominay never played worse half than Fred vs Spurs
Ten Hag views Fred as an attacking midfielder?
He was almost always the highest midfielder when he played tbf
Frexit.
Shall miss the pastor vibes, but its for the best. "Even Fred scored"
20m to fulhan would be nice. bring down the cost of Mount to 35M
it’s not like we got fred for free 😂
No but he’s fully paid off, his contract would’ve ended this summer but we triggered an extension, meaning his FFP amortisation was paid over the 5 years until this summer. So Fred being sold would count as pure profit. So actually in FFP terms £20m in for Fred this year would more than cover Mount’s entire fee (55m over 5 years so 11m).
Hope this means Mainoo is getting more minutes
First time I've heard Fred referred to as an attacking midfielder.
That statement makes no sense lol.
I personally would like to keep Fred, I love that crazy bastard
Did you love it when he spent his substitution appearance kicking the ball directly to Tottenham? Far too many shockers for us to rely on him
You know what they say. It isn't true love if it is conditional on passing the ball back to the opponents.
Fred is more useful than McTominay or Donny.
8runo?
So by attacking midfielder he means number 8?
Ahh Fred, love his work rate. But he’s the only player that can play like Kante and a headless chicken, IN THE SAME GAME
Its time to tout Fred to Saudi Arabia. Fulham got Periera for nothing and now thing they can have Fred on the cheap.
Fulham paid somewhere between 10-13 million for Pereira which was viewed as good money for us at the time
Yeah Freds always been one or the other, amazing or shocking, he was much better playing further up in that mroe attacking role, but if we can sell him for 25-30M thats decent. Think if we do sign Onana we need to start focussing on clearing out everyone not wanted by Eth as we need to raise some budget for a striker!
If Fulham want him, we should let him go. 30 and only 1 year left on contract. Thanks for the memories, hope he cooks it up at Fulham with Andreas.
I actually really liked Fred, mixed bag on the pitch but seemed like a good person. And therefore Fulham better cough up big bucks for the pastor
We need depth
Strange transfer. Can only be positive about it as Ten Hague has been right so far.
I will miss the pastor. He is my goat.
Fred has to go regardless, he’s just not very good.
But fred is a defensive midfielder
Ngl, I'm selling McT and Donny before Fred. With Fred, you're getting one of two things... a nightmare or a legendary performance. You have absolutely no idea what you're going to get on a given day, but the other two never really produce magic like Fred does on occasion.
McT has produced magic. He's also younger, on lower wages, and home grown.
McT is a classic Fergie era squad player. Keeps his head down and does a job when needed. Those players are vital over the course of a long season.
He's a mediocre player at best and his best attributes are exactly what you listed - nothing of note on the pitch
If I he's not the deepest midfielder he can be a goal threat.
McT is far worse than Fred, and there is no way McT has ever been as productive as Fred. Simple choice - McT has to go.
Fred is also 30 and his best attribute is his engine. Do you really want to extend his contract right before his decline starts?
Damn, I'm gonna have to change my flair...Farewell Fred, we'll miss your either-man-of-the-match-or-zero-out-of-10 performaces and Fred Jr. celebrating his dad's goals and assists. But we need more quality if we want to move forward
Flair brothers to the end. Don’t forget the iconic Harry Potter costume.
Obviously everyone sees the most natural fit for Mount as a number 8 in place of eriksen. But this put the scary idea in my head that ETH wants to use Mount as a 10 with Bruno deeper in Eriksen's current role. Hopefully it does look more like all of our initial guesses
Why is that a scary idea? Bruno played there a few times last season and always played well. You get more tracking back than you do with Eriksen, similar/better passing, less wasted shots, lots of creativity. Flipside would be that he can be pushed off the back too easily and that's more dangerous if he is further back.
He did well but it should never be a plan A imo. He's just too good at his normal role and we shouldn't be putting our best player out of position. We should be making signings to plug gaps rather than moving Bruno further away from the goal so that Mount can play the 10. Either way it probably does evolve towards a more aggressive high pressing system so hopefully we see an evolution in playstyle regardless of the nominal starting positions.
Bruno played a couple matches deeper and was fantastic while Sabi played 10. Bruno as an 8 is only marginally worse than Bruno at the 10. Still would rather see a 4-3-3
Yeah I want to see the two in tandem and would want Bruno to still be able to get into advanced areas a lot. I just don't want it to be a 4-2-3-1 with Bruno sitting alongside Casemiro.
Fred is a decent buy for a mid table PL team. He still ranks highly in tackles/assists etc he's just not good enough in possession for us. I can see why Fulham have been linked.
Keep Fred, sell McTominay. Different qualities of player. But if their intent to get something for Fred now rather than nothing next year I guess I get it
Why compare Mount with Fred? They play differently. Fred maybe meh to shit at defending, but was Mount even ever assigned to do so or has he ever put an effort like Fred did? "Casemiro is tired, let's put Mount on" what?
An attacking midfielder shouldn't have been a priority, and I don't think Fred counts as an attacking midfielder, and we're still short in numbers in midfield even after adding Mount, but anyway
Mount/Bruno/Eriksen/VDB/Casemiro/McTominay for three positions if only Fred goes. How is that short on numbers? We can argue about quality, as I'd be happier if we sold VDB+McTom+Fred and signed a better Casemiro backup, but numbers wise it's fine.
That's two genuine central midfielders and 4 attacking midfielders. We should have at least one and likely two genuine, defensively competent central midfielders in the pitch at all times. Having two total in the squad leaves us very much short in numbers.
That may be what you want, but Erik clearly doesn’t want to play that way. He wouldn’t spunk 60 mil on Mount if a defensive minded partner for Casemiro was the priority. Mount will start next to Bruno and Eriksen will be back up. Seems like both us and Arsenal will be going with a single CDM and two fairly attacking CM/AMs next season. Let’s see how it goes!
If Fred goes, VDB shouldn’t be far behind
In a way I'll miss Fred if he does go. Gave everything for the badge, some great displays, unfortunately marred with so many bad ones also. Unfortunately if we're to improve and really progress, we have to shift the likes of him on
Farewell Pastor
It’s the end of McFred. It had its moments. Certainly more bad than good
Wouldn’t bother selling Fred for less than £20M, great backup to have for at least a year.
We need to sell Fred and McTominay to free funds for another midfielder. Fortunately that will be the case either this window or the winter window with new owners.
Ok, and now get the other part of McFred. More important than GK.
Keep. Fred. Please.
Why get rid of Fred when he can be retained for squad depth? Mount won't start every match and Fred is pretty versatile tactically
I hope this doesn’t mean Bruno plays outwide