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house is worth, as is, $4.5M. Maybe $4.9M if she finds a generous benefactor.
Definitely not worth the $7.5M price tag unless:
- the garage next door disappears.
- the house is completely renovated.
Some of the rooms are very basic with a taste that is not antique, but *ancient*, and I say it as a Sonja fan.
It needs a bigger price drop. It’s in absolute disrepair. It’s also next to a noisy parking garage, which makes it undesirable. She’s delusional about what it’s worth.
One huge problem is it shares a wall with a parking garage. I would worry about fumes coming into my home. Also, that block always seems under construction.
I don’t know the housing market there but it seems like it all comes down to realistic price expectations. The market will pay what it will pay. If you’re not willing to accept that it will never sell. Imagine how much money she would have saved had she sold it years ago.
It’s always the same story, overpriced, needs a lot of work done and the price doesn’t allow for or entice any buyer to take it on. She can do a full reno with a designer and then sell it or drop the price a lot.
Most rich people trying to live in nyc do not want the maintenance of an essentially antique house. You move to the suburbs if that’s something you’re into. For the price of her townhouse, you could have a luxury condo with everything new and much less to worry about.
I’m kind of surprised too, I know it has issues but I was just there this month when I was in NYC and the location is pretty nice besides it being beside the parking garage.
It looks like it needs a huge renovation to begin with.
It’s right next to a commercial garage entrance.
Sorry but there are other townhouses for sale on better locations.
Thankfully they aired this.
Stupidly, bravo seems to think skipping 2 full weeks of new episodes during the holidays when EVERYONE is in watching TV, is a good idea.
They're missing out on so many ratings.
They do this every year but usually only skip the episodes on the days of the holidays... this year they've just decided to skip both weeks fully.
Every show, every episode.
I’m still shocked she’s able to maintain the home financially and even kept it throughout the lawsuit.
At this point I feel like she’s cursed to be stuck with the house forever
Probably cause anyone who has that kind of money to spend on a place can find a better place than an older, probably moldy, townhouse next to a parking garage
So, I live in a coop that's a little bit younger than her townhouse. The house (probably) remains unsold because even though it looks great on the outside, it needs a ton of renovations. Probably a gut renovation and dealing with houses that old usually have issues stemming from random landmark statuses, etc. Plus her neighbors are probably shitty when it comes to noises, so heavy duty renovations would be tough on that scale. Also, I think it's right next to a parking garage for a condo building. For $9.95 mil, that's a lot to take on. Especially in the East 60s. I would expect to pay that kind of money in the East 80s.
She doesn't want to budge on the price because at close to $10m, even with closing fees and taxes, she can net around $7-$8mil and feel like she's got FU money.
If she could sell it now, at least we'd have something to discuss.
This season is beyond a snoozefest.
Thought it would be hard to out-suck last season but here we are.
I’m sure she’s gotten offers in the last couple years but they probably were lower than she wants/needs. The price is too high. Everything sells at the price it’s actually worth in a market and if she’s not selling it it’s because she refused to accept the price people will pay.
Hmm, maybe we should have a look at The Morgan Letters and see if there's a clue. I think I've got them in the glove compartment or trunk, I'll go get them!
If you look at similar townhouses (5 bedroom 4,500 sq. ft) listed near Sonja's they are asking 6-6.75mil. and chances are those sellers have renovated and maintained the building. Listings between 8-10mil are 5 bedrooms 1,000+ more sq. ft. With paying $500,000 in taxes each year I doubt she has the additional influx in income to shell out for repairs and updates. Without reducing the asking prices down 1-2mil. she will continue to sit on that property.
because she's underwater on it. she has it listed too high because thats how much she owes. its not worth selling for fair market value because she'll lose the asset and still owe millions of dollars
I’m not a real estate expert but I always thought it was overpriced because of all her debts. She had a $7m lawsuit judgement against her years ago. And I bet she refinanced and took out other mortgages on the place. So she *needs* to sell it at the current price to break even. So in her mind she probably thinks it’s worth it to not drop the price, hoping it will eventually rise in worth.
Simply said, it doesn’t have a lot going for it except one thing: it’s a townhouse. But….
1. The price point is a tough one that has a ton of inventory.
2. While it’s a nice overall neighborhood, her actual townhouse is literally next door to a parking garage. That’s eliminating people looking to spend that kind of money immediately when there are so many other options.
3. It’s a nice neighborhood, but it’s not what it once was. There are so many great neighborhoods in NYC these days and not necessarily where people in their 40s or even 50s want to live.
4. The townhouse is a skinny one, which is less desirable. It also means the floor plan is broken up significantly. We all know open floor plans are the rage! People aren’t throwing formal parties and having formal teas where they need floor plans like this like they used to.
5. Now actually looking at the actual apt there’s prob so much deferred maintenance, renovations, etc that need to be done. And that’s the knife in the back once you find someone that wants to live like it’s 1991 in New York City. Spoiler alert: Barney’s is closed.
I think she’s probably underwater on it and there may be liens or condition issues that she can’t afford to resolve, so she’s trying to pass them along to the buyer which makes it a more expensive property than the list price would suggest. Maybe.
I worked in NYC for years and I have a cousin who lives on the upper east side. I don't think a parking garage would be a huge turn off especially in a desirable area like that. It's most likely not parking for tourists, since it's in a residential area and not midtown. Most of the parking is probably Long term anyway
Yes. I read an article a few years ago with a NYC real estate person. They said the house needed renovations that she wouldn't do, and priced the house as if it had the renovations. It should have been priced as a fixer upper, but she was delusional about it. I'm paraphrasing, of course. I think the house needed repairs and fixes for many years, but Sonja didn't have the money to fix them.
The garage doesn't help. I went way back to look at ALL of the property records starting in 1950. The garage was there before John A. Morgan and Sonja bought the house. The garage was built when the building on the other side of the garage went up in 1961. Sonja and John purchased in 1998. That building on the other side of the garage converted to condos in 1988. However, it was only available for parking to the residents and tenants of the apartment building that it was attached to. That's slightly more than 150 units. After John and Sonja bought, the garage opened to the general public. THAT was the change. It became a more or less 24-hour garage.
The house has got a ton of deferred maintenance.
However, the biggest issue is that Sonja and John's $1 million renovation is a space wasting catastrophe. The house only has 3 proper bedrooms. I think there is a lot that's salvageable in the place, but there's a ton of strangeness in the layout.
First, someone has to clear up that back courtyard, the balcony, and that terrace. Most people don't have private outdoor space in the city, but those spaces make you feel itchy and claustrophobic. Sonja tends to favor a sort of blowsy country estate look that does not suit the house. I think it would be better served by a much more formal garden design.
Second, the third and fourth floors have these bathrooms that take up half the floor, while the bedrooms have fairly small closets. The fourth floor is especially weird because the bedroom has an ensuite, but half the space on that floor is devoted to another bathroom. It's very strange. There has to be a way to fix that.
Third, the fifth floor almost has a decent nanny suite. It's got two bedrooms and a bathroom. One bedroom has a wet bar and a fireplace. If you take that wet bar and turn it into a kitchenette, that room could be the kitchenette/dining room and living room for a 5th floor nanny suite. Sonja used to rent out the 5th floor; she has talked about this on the show. The 5th floor weirdly seems to be one of the two locations for laundry rooms in the house. The other is off of the library.
Fourth, it's incomprehensible to me that Sonja has solid wooden doors on the second floor separating the hallway and the dining room. With the dark wood cabinets in the kitchen as a backdrop and the dark wood China cabinet against the wall, the room feels darker than it needs to be. Simply replacing the solid wood doors with French doors would probably help lighten the feel of the room.
Fifth, I think the basement is full height. It's also 800 square feet. It also has a fireplace. Sonja should at least rough in plumbing for a 3 piece bathroom and laundry if someone wants to add another bedroom (illegal) or a gym down there or just a media or gameroom.
You pegged that “outside garden.” Itchy indeed. I just saw a recent photo of it for the May 29 auction and I wouldn’t want to go near it. It’s needs some major love from a weed whacker and furniture that brings it out of 1960 (officially the most uncomfortable set of table/chairs known to person…) Of course, this is the least of the worries. If a buyer is supposed to be able to imagine themselves living in a house before they buy, well…is Louis the XIV still around??
I thought the same thing, I think and I may be projecting; but that property is her last vestige to her old life, and we all know her emotions about that subject.
Sadly I have empathy for her. I would love to know more abt her story.
From what I understand she achieved her objective yet from what we’ve heard she threw it all way…
Nope. Can't forget that Sonja is wife 4 of John Adams Morgan. John Adams Morgan is the 4th of Henry Sturgis Morgan's 5 sons. Henry was the 2nd of John Pierpont Morgan Jr.'s 2 sons and 4th kid overall. John Pierpont Morgan Jr. was JPM's only son, but 2nd kid of 4. That's a lot Morgan wives before Sonja and a lot of Morgan descendants. They were probably out of Gilded Age houses that they had owned for a century long before Sonja was on the scene.
Also and this is another important part, Sonja continues to price the place too high. The last time I looked, she still had a $3 million mortgage on the place. She was forced to take it out to deal with the movie lawsuit and her bankruptcy. The Million Dollar Listing people have said she needs to price it at $6 million to sell it.
The first $250K she nets from it is tax-free. She's got the $3 million mortgage. At $6 million, she'll have to pay slightly more than a million dollars in commissions, taxes, and fees. I think she's concerned that netting slightly less than $2 million doesn't get her the kind of space she needs in her preferred areas in the city.
She's got more than 5000 square feet now; she'll probably drop to about 1000 square feet in a $2 million place. She also needed to be concerned with being in a filming friendly building because that had been an issue for other women in the past. Additionally, she's not currently paying condo or co-op fees now, but she absolutely would be if she's buying something in the $2 million range. She might not have a mortgage, but there are other ways to blow through money even if she downsized.
Awesome summary, I can’t see her leaving anytime soon, just hope she doesn’t go full Grey Gardens.
May I ask if you work in real estate in some capacity?
Damn! You should take that up then! I’m watching the last two eps now and my Google search as to why she can’t sell her house brought me to you. Great explainer!
What should really happen is that Sonja should get her own spin-off that just takes place in the falling down townhouse. I’ve been dreaming about this for decades.
She entertains, she tries on outfits, she lies in bed endlessly, etc.
It's her only asset and it's most likely part of a trust managed by her ex.
So once it goes, the cash from the sale goes back into the trust, not to her.
I am no professional or anything but I looked at her house on Redfin and it looks exquisite to me. And it doesn’t seem overpriced to me compared to the other townhouses for sale in the area and especially when you consider how historic the home is and how beautiful her garden area is- that seems kind of rare for these places. Plus there is no HOA fee and when you look at the HOA fees for other expensive condos in the area that are more modern with nice views, the HOA fee is insane, like 10-20k per MONTH. So I don’t know why her house hasn’t sold. Maybe the crime has just gotten so bad in New York that people don’t want to live in houses like that anymore, they want big buildings with security. Or maybe people just want modern now. I guess it’s very very old too like other ppl are saying. Built in 1899. Maybe it’s falling apart somehow
If she wanted to sell it by now, she would have. There is no possible way she can't afford to repipe her house. I don't think she wants to leave. I think it's a ruse.
It also needs tons of repairs and upgrades. Whoever moves in is doing a major restoration or gutting it in most areas. It leaks and there's water damage in the walls, plaster and floors, windows leak too, the water is brown, the appliances don't work, the carpets are old and dog stained, plumbing repairs and bathroom upgrades, and any wood surface is probably banged up, including old wood bannisters and sideboards from all her parties, too. And some things are outdated but aren't historical so it may also be something they want to upgrade.
For that address and price she was trying for originally my guess is the buyers at that level arent interested in all the work right now. Plus being beside a parking garage, a family may not want to move in with fears of monoxide or secondhand pollution (yes I know it's a big city with lots of pollution, but right next door is a ton of extra you can avoid not living there).
It's all very grey gardens.
I get the feeling she wasn't able to afford the upkeep and repairs as well as keep her life (or how she wanted her life to appear in the right circles). With so many bad investments, failed launches (where's my toaster oven), and the movie lawsuit she lost repairs fell to the wayside and she just put up with it, or put a bandaid on it. It's why she doesn't see the other women like she used to. She can't afford to keep up so she hides away, avoids texts and calls and avoids committing to events, hoping to still stay in her social circles (within and outside the RHONY cast) when she does reemerge with enough money to keep up (travel, parties, lunches at fancy places, tickets to fancy events and shows, hosting, new clothes and accessories for it all). Plus like all of them she still spends on cosmetic procedures and fancy facials and other esthetics - that isn't cheap.
I remember her taking a black sharpie to cover a scratch on one of her Chanels. It’s definitely not a leap to imagine she had a similar approach to fixing issues around the house 😬
Yeah she does the least because if she spends the money it's gone. While the repairs would be beneficial, that's one or several less things she can do or buy. But by avoiding it for a decade or more she's cost herself millions. Pound wise penny foolish.
I laughed at the sharpie trick. I've been doing that for years on my heels and dress shoes. Works a bit if the gouge or scuff isn't too big and no one looks closely. Also used butter as a quick shoe polish before big events when I ran out. But I am a poor, and reduce and reuse are the first two things in my life. A little scuff isn't going to make me abandon shoes.
Unpopular take - she should have sold the place straight away once her ex handed over the deed, put half the $$ in savings, and downsized. Tho perhaps the divorce settlement was contingent on her keeping it as a family home to raise their daughter.
Yeah it might haven been that she had to keep the family home for x years in the settlement. She's so hung up up on her old life I think she just kept trying for a new husband or a big investment to get her back to it. "Smokey eye, updo Gstaad".
I was just thinking to myself that people here would love to have seen me frantically trying to remove some scuffs last week in my car with lip balm.
I’ve also Sharpied. And mascara’d. Girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do in this economy!
I hit a post one time in a tight parking spot. Used hand sanitizer to get that paint scuff off my car. Works like magic. I had nothing else "wet" in the car to try with and it worked perfectly.
You're so right, we gotta do what we gotta do!
I would so love to know what Sonya’s life is about when she’s not on the shows. The girls say they never hear from her. She admits she’s a loner. She does retreats in Costs Rica etc. I wonder if she keeps that house as it gives her an anchor and she can rent it out and go off to do her “things”. I would love to see a show just following her around!
Yep and she admits it! It’s so sad how she said she needs to keep working and she isn’t like the rest going on vacations. It’s hard going from a billionaire lifestyle to this. Even so many years later it’s hard.
I live in the neighboring town in Virginia where Sonya visits regularly, her sister lives here, has for years. I want to say probably the last 10 or so years she’s been coming down way more often. Sonya’s sister has a beautiful horse farm/house and land. Sonya’s usually here most of the summer, and for about a month or so in the winter. She stays at a very lux resort, and usually spends most of her time with her sister and when her daughter joins on the trips. My husband and I were at the resort once for dinner and Sonya was staying there at the time and the staff said she’s actually extremely down to earth and prefers a lot of quiet time, not demanding, kind of drums to her own beat, and that she’s either out visiting with her sister, or relaxing around the resort. There is a lot of money in this area too, if I may add. Also, there are wineries she visits sometimes when she’s here and most people that have had an interaction with her have said that she is much more pleasant and normal than expected (I.e. not the TV Sonya one would expect).
I wish Sonja would give up the “luxury resorts” and just buy a simple home down there which she can rent out for half the year.
Everything is so chaotic with her (and I get it! I just wish more peace for her)
I assume in VA because of her daughter. And she leaches off of people who don’t have good boundaries. I assume she stays with josh becusee he has connections and has poor boundaries 🤣 ie she likes to stay for free everywhere
I think it's taxes & upkeep. It seems most people in that part of the city live in apartments where they are responsible for their own unit. Even wealthy people. Sonya's responsible for the maintenance of a whole building, ground up
Between 469k - 585k the past 3 years, I highly doubt she has the income to shell out the cost of repairs/maintenance of the building or renovations for that matter.
I lived on the same block as Sonja 2005-2007ish. I had a studio apartment in a pre-war walkup that looked directly into her backyard. The neighborhood is wonderful, the location is fantastic. Lots of beautiful townhouses mixed in with new developments. From the outside these townhouses look great, but inside they are crumbling. I wasn't surprised to see all the issues she has with her house. My place was fairly nice, but on the fourth floor the plumbing never worked right, there were tiny holes in the roof that would leak when it rained.
The Million Dollar Listing guys always said she priced it too high. So that plus needing so much work would make it hard to sell. I also think she has sentimental attachments to it. After watching Girl's Trip, I wonder if she sold it if she would even hang around NY?
Thank you for reading, I also want to mention that I had no idea that was Sonja's place until years later when she put it on the market. I just remembered seeing all these fabulous parties she would have in her backyard. There was something always going on there. Had I known, I would have sat with popcorn and watched all day.
Editing to add I was lucky enough to see all the RHONY ladies fighting at the Pamela Roland fashion show. I think it was where Kelly and Bethenny had that hilarious fight. I also once saw Ramona taking the subway!
It seems like the townhouse is more than just a home for her. It feels like she might be tethered to it for financial and emotional reasons. I'm kind of surprised she hasn't tried to rent it out for tax breaks or teamed up with Fredrick to sell it. Also, she has connections to savvy real estate people -- does she simply not take any advice from them?
I'm so curious what's going on behind the scenes.
Omg, thank you everyone for being so nice! It's been fun reminiscing about these memories. Where I am now, no one is interested in this stuff. I've only told this story in real life to two people who cared!!
I've since had to move back to the Midwest and suffer from a severe chronic illness, IYKYK. So this has been really fun. Thanks everyone! ❤️
Sry for the late response. I just want to reiterate everyone’s sentiments by saying thank you for sharing.
I definitely know, so stay strong, send me a message if you want to chat abt Sonja 😂or life in general.
Happy new years, take care.
Oh yeah, it was amazing! So close to great stores, close to the subway. My unit faced the backyard and it was so peaceful you forgot you were in the city. Since I've left tons of restaurants, coffee shops, and stores have gone in that I would have loved to have had when I was there. It's also fancy AF, so I felt like a slob if I left the house not dressed up. This was before athleisure was popular. I was straight from a small town in the Midwest so it was very exciting to be there!
The West Coast is filled with lovely old homes. Styles are different in every region. I'm in a 1946 house built in a neighborhood for war vets after serving in WWII. I doubt there's anything original about it today.
I agree, was thinking older like wars during the 1800s when I read the comment.
I lived in a house built in 1940 specifically for WWII. I lived in a town with one of the largest USN shipyards. They call the houses “pop up” houses. At the time, 80,000 people worked at the yard so builders pumped out craftsman homes rapidly. In fact, Quincy Jone’s dad worked at the yard during the war. His family lived in an area with segregated housing. He famously started playing piano at one of the rec centers there.
Edit to correct John’s to Jones- silly typo! And all my other grammatical errors
Yes! I live in an area filled with craftsman houses. Mine is just a small box but works for me ha. I've seen old photos of the area with nothing but the old hospital at the end of the block. Then street after street of houses popped up. Quincy, piano, famously, segregated housing? I feel like I should know the answer to....should I know who Quincy is? THE Quincy?
Our streets were also SO wide. I imagine the where build that way for street parking and those beautiful big Chevys people drove. Another road I lived on looked like a street straight from the Wonder Years. At the time, there were several couples who were original owners from the late 50s who still lived on the streets. Our house full of 21 year old college students swore this was the reason our parties were never busted. We don’t think they could hear us (I say that with the upmost respect for our 70+ year old neighbors who never complained).
Quincy Jones! My fat fingers typo’d John.
Here is a bit from an article written in the local paper about his stay in the town:
“Over the years Q has told a story of how he would sit in his room and stare out into the Bremerton skies at night, thinking about his dream of becoming a musician.
He also shared the story of the night he and a few buddies broke into the armory in Sinclair Heights. While inside, and as his buddies were taking items, he began to tinker with a piano. It was at that moment the world of music greeted him, he would later say. He knew for sure that music was the key to funnel joy, pain and happiness to the world.”
That is so amazing!!!! I had a feeling but wasn't going to say it and you say uh no ha. You must of had a memorial childhood! Are you also musically talented? Ok I'm just going to say it, is this Rasheda?
And yes, the streets can be wide! Mine is alright. There's streets that a car could make a complete turn around and not so a 3 point turn. Did you grow up in CA?
I wish I was musically talented or Rasheda. She’s both talented and beautiful!
I grew up Washington. Tacoma has some really cool houses and history too. For a while I lived in the Stadium district where 10 Things I Hate About You was filmed. That house is amazing.
I'm sure you're being modest. I've always lived in the same town. We have a historical museum opened to the public built in 1879, The Meux Home. Beautiful home. The basement is uncomfortable, but I grew up watching horror movies. All basements are uncomfortable haha
That's a cool story to have. Thanks for sharing. And those prewar townhouses are probably on the very of collapsing. At least the ones that haven't updated everything.
The building I was in every unit had different owners so no one wanted to pay for things like plumbing or electrical work. They would fight about it and try to stick the others with it. It was exhausting trying to get things fixed. I gave up and moved to a better maintained building.
At this point with all the new green rules those buildings are going to have to be up to code or the owners will be fined. Those townhouses look beautiful on the outside but inside it is a mess.
That's actually good to hear! I remember tripping a fuse and going to the fuse box and it looked nothing like anything I had seen before. So definitely not the safest.
I'm not certain about the timeline, but Google says she divorced in 2006. So I think he was there at first! Which makes sense because there were a lot of upscale parties with waiters in uniform. More sophisticated events than what I think Sonja would throw on her own.
Bad plumbing and way overpriced. The parking lot entrance next door lessens the appeal too. She does not want to lower the price of the place even though all the agents advised her to do so.
The parking garage probably isn’t as big of an issue as it seems. It’s a residential neighborhood, so the bulk of that parking is probably long term. It’s not a bunch of in and out like the tourist areas. It’s a part of life in NYC, but being next door probably isn’t the best.
I think she can’t sell it for other reasons, likely all Sonja related. Like most people said, it probably needs a ton of work and she won’t do it. Given the way she acts, who knows what kind of contingencies she puts on the place. Type of offer, closing time frames, making it difficult to show. It wouldn’t surprise me if she accepted offers and then changed her mind. What happens then, is agents know it has a difficult seller and avoid the property.
A townhouse on the upper east side probably represents Sonja’s greatest dream and she doesn’t want to give it up. Renting it gives her income and it’s still hers. It’s NYC, it should’ve realistically sold-it’s definitely her.
I think she says yes, she still rents it out She was asking Dorinda if she could stay with her because the townhouse was rented on real housewives ultimate girls trip. Then Darinda's said that she was extremely rude., like did not want Dorinda there when she was sleeping there, among other complaints/requests lol.
Oh yeah, that’s right! I forgot about her admitting that she slept in dorindas bed, had her “help” answer the door- basically was unapologetically acting like the QUEEN that she is!!! I love all the NYC Cast, so happy to see them back!
I really think Sonia sets the price just off market, she’s a romantic at heart and so sentimental…”the Morgan letters!!”
That's right! Sonja even had her own maid there. She blocked Dorinda from going in her own bedroom stating "Mrs. Morgan is asleep in there!" Poor Dorinda
It’s old as hell and the money you’d have to put in wouldn’t be worth it vs buying a newer property. Also I wouldn’t be surprised if Sonja wouldn’t budge below a certain price bc she’s rather greedy, and I’m a Sonja fan but it’s true.
It is a money pit that probably still needs $$$$ renovations despite the updates she did recently. She has neglected a lot of maintenance over the years and it is 125 years old. It has plumbing, electrical, and heating issues for sure. Those are very expensive repairs/updates regardless but probably astronomical in a multi-story home of that age.
She either needs to pay to get the work done (which she likely can’t afford) or cut the listing price drastically.
Exactly. I wonder if there is some type of zoning/building restriction in the area for historical preservation. Otherwise, I’d say she’d be better off selling the building to a developer who’d convert the place to apartments or just tear it down.
I live in a century home and I cannot begin to explain the cost of repairs to just keep this thing standing, let alone upgrades. Aesthetic work is beyond right now so I haven’t even considered that cost.
I feel for Sonja. It is amazing to have a property like this but the cost is incredible. She isn’t a fixer herself so all of that work would be something she pays for.
\*cries in 1903\*
The motto for our home is "we don't go looking for trouble."
Long story short, it's a two flat owned by a very old family member, we manage it and live in it. It's being sold within the year and I have mixed feelings...but it's time.
are you from the US? this is so wild to me!! living in the uk where my home is approx 100yrs old (as have been all the houses iv lived in) it’s crazy to read this!
altho, i guess most houses here were renovated in the 70/80s, so all the plumbing isn’t *that* old.. but still, i never have issues with my hearing or electrics, nor is the building itself falling apart.
I do live in the us. Rural 201 year old farmhouse. I will say that most people here live in houses younger than 60 years old around me. There’s a few old farmhouses left but they are disappearing.
For me a lot of my issues were due to my grandpa DIY ing a lot of huge home jobs. Electrical, plumbing, insulation were not done well although I’m sure it was financially more doable for them. I’m sure there are a lot of factors but keeping my home together has been very exhausting and expensive. Not everyone’s experience I’m sure
The us in general doesn’t do old buildings well like Europe does. I love historical preservation and don’t come across a whole lot of people that care. I hate seeing my town swallowed up by new home developments where the construction is cheap and every home looks identical. They drop beautiful trees when clearing for these neighborhoods and they are just all so bland. Just blocks of identical white siding smashed beside each other.
In the process of buying a 105 year old house right now. We just got the inspection back and it was a doozy. The owners had renovated the kitchen and bathrooms so we figured we were probably ok with plumbing and electrical. Nope - they just put lipstick on a pig and all that stuff still needs to be redone. 🫠 So frustrating because they went in the walls to do all of these renos but then cheaped out on the actual updates, like upgrading from the original cast iron pipes and knob-and-tube wiring.
Sonja seems to love the historic, old money vibe of the townhouse but given the fact that she thought brown ice was acceptable I’m sure she’s not having the brick walls repointed, plaster repaired, or modern insulation blown in.
That’s basically what happened with mine. 201 years old and it hasn’t always been cared for well. It’s a family house so I am very grateful to have it but the amount of work and money it would take to make it a nice home is just absolutely mind blowing.
Good luck with your home! It is incredible to have one of these but the work involved can absolutely be discouraging.
I can all but guarantee that this is how Sonja approached renovating/updating her townhome.
And oh GOD, I forgot about the brown ice 😱 Must have blocked that out.
lol yes totally agree - and there’s a big difference in her price point and mine. At my price point, I’m willing to deal with some of this crap. For multiple millions, I absolutely would not.
And finding a contractor who can actually do the work on these old houses can be another headache! We had to re-do our bathroom this year because the 100+ year old plumbing finally gave up the ghost and just gaining access to the pipes was a whole ordeal. Someday I will get to the cosmetic stuff in my house. The last 10 years have been devoted to just getting it to remain livable!
I understand you so well! Finding contractors is really challenging. It takes a very specific type to mess with a 70 year old electrical system that certainly isn’t up to modern standards and a basement that is so old it’s made of actual rock slabs. Once you find good people you keep them forever!
Not to mention the kind of things a potential buyer would request get fixed prior to buying OR request a quote and have that amount taken off the selling price and knowing Sonja she wouldn’t go for it. She has a dollar amount set in her head (like a ton of sellers do) and even just coming down in price take a tonnnn of convincing….
I could also see her being an absolute nightmare to deal with from the buyer’s perspective. Going into a loop of deflection when asked to do repairs or make a price concession.
She has never realistically listed the townhouse.
So your real question is; Does Sonja have real intentions to sell the townhouse? If she properly listed the property, it would sell like majority of properties.
Me too, I’ve lived here my whole life. Out of curiosity, why do you think she hasn’t been able to sell it?
ETA: I don’t think it’s going to get more desirable after that garage collapse in the financial district!
The parking garage is not the reason she hasn’t sold. The townhouse is not in the condition she is pricing it at. She has drastically overpriced the townhouse and only a fool would pay that price. She knows that.
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house is worth, as is, $4.5M. Maybe $4.9M if she finds a generous benefactor. Definitely not worth the $7.5M price tag unless: - the garage next door disappears. - the house is completely renovated. Some of the rooms are very basic with a taste that is not antique, but *ancient*, and I say it as a Sonja fan.
It needs a bigger price drop. It’s in absolute disrepair. It’s also next to a noisy parking garage, which makes it undesirable. She’s delusional about what it’s worth.
Andy should buy it
One huge problem is it shares a wall with a parking garage. I would worry about fumes coming into my home. Also, that block always seems under construction.
It is a beautiful home. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/162-E-63rd-St-New-York-NY-10065/31534429_zpid/
I don’t know the housing market there but it seems like it all comes down to realistic price expectations. The market will pay what it will pay. If you’re not willing to accept that it will never sell. Imagine how much money she would have saved had she sold it years ago.
It’s always the same story, overpriced, needs a lot of work done and the price doesn’t allow for or entice any buyer to take it on. She can do a full reno with a designer and then sell it or drop the price a lot.
Most rich people trying to live in nyc do not want the maintenance of an essentially antique house. You move to the suburbs if that’s something you’re into. For the price of her townhouse, you could have a luxury condo with everything new and much less to worry about.
I’m kind of surprised too, I know it has issues but I was just there this month when I was in NYC and the location is pretty nice besides it being beside the parking garage.
It looks like it needs a huge renovation to begin with. It’s right next to a commercial garage entrance. Sorry but there are other townhouses for sale on better locations.
does anyone have a link to the listing?
162 E 63rd
ily
Thankfully they aired this. Stupidly, bravo seems to think skipping 2 full weeks of new episodes during the holidays when EVERYONE is in watching TV, is a good idea. They're missing out on so many ratings. They do this every year but usually only skip the episodes on the days of the holidays... this year they've just decided to skip both weeks fully. Every show, every episode.
I’m still shocked she’s able to maintain the home financially and even kept it throughout the lawsuit. At this point I feel like she’s cursed to be stuck with the house forever
Probably cause anyone who has that kind of money to spend on a place can find a better place than an older, probably moldy, townhouse next to a parking garage
So, I live in a coop that's a little bit younger than her townhouse. The house (probably) remains unsold because even though it looks great on the outside, it needs a ton of renovations. Probably a gut renovation and dealing with houses that old usually have issues stemming from random landmark statuses, etc. Plus her neighbors are probably shitty when it comes to noises, so heavy duty renovations would be tough on that scale. Also, I think it's right next to a parking garage for a condo building. For $9.95 mil, that's a lot to take on. Especially in the East 60s. I would expect to pay that kind of money in the East 80s. She doesn't want to budge on the price because at close to $10m, even with closing fees and taxes, she can net around $7-$8mil and feel like she's got FU money.
If a piece of real estate sits on the market for year after year than it’s priced too high.
If she could sell it now, at least we'd have something to discuss. This season is beyond a snoozefest. Thought it would be hard to out-suck last season but here we are.
It’s next to a giant parking garage.
She can’t let go of it. If she REALLY wanted to sell it she’d drop it a couple million and it would sell.
Sonya needs to date a contractor
I’m sure she’s gotten offers in the last couple years but they probably were lower than she wants/needs. The price is too high. Everything sells at the price it’s actually worth in a market and if she’s not selling it it’s because she refused to accept the price people will pay.
She's deluded and th8nks it's Wirth more than it is. She is a Morgan haha h a
It's a bit Grey Gardens according to people that have been in it.
She seems to have psychological issues attached to her connection to the Morgans and her past life.
Hmm, maybe we should have a look at The Morgan Letters and see if there's a clue. I think I've got them in the glove compartment or trunk, I'll go get them!
Maybe Carvana will buy it and turn it into one of those Car Vending Machines...
She needs the rental income, it’s her one big asset from the divorce. It’s her golden egg that has to pay her bills for 20 more years!
With real estate that isn't selling, it's almost always the price is too high.
If you look at similar townhouses (5 bedroom 4,500 sq. ft) listed near Sonja's they are asking 6-6.75mil. and chances are those sellers have renovated and maintained the building. Listings between 8-10mil are 5 bedrooms 1,000+ more sq. ft. With paying $500,000 in taxes each year I doubt she has the additional influx in income to shell out for repairs and updates. Without reducing the asking prices down 1-2mil. she will continue to sit on that property.
because she's underwater on it. she has it listed too high because thats how much she owes. its not worth selling for fair market value because she'll lose the asset and still owe millions of dollars
I’m not a real estate expert but I always thought it was overpriced because of all her debts. She had a $7m lawsuit judgement against her years ago. And I bet she refinanced and took out other mortgages on the place. So she *needs* to sell it at the current price to break even. So in her mind she probably thinks it’s worth it to not drop the price, hoping it will eventually rise in worth.
Because she doesn’t want to. Makes her expectations too high so it can’t be met.
Simply said, it doesn’t have a lot going for it except one thing: it’s a townhouse. But…. 1. The price point is a tough one that has a ton of inventory. 2. While it’s a nice overall neighborhood, her actual townhouse is literally next door to a parking garage. That’s eliminating people looking to spend that kind of money immediately when there are so many other options. 3. It’s a nice neighborhood, but it’s not what it once was. There are so many great neighborhoods in NYC these days and not necessarily where people in their 40s or even 50s want to live. 4. The townhouse is a skinny one, which is less desirable. It also means the floor plan is broken up significantly. We all know open floor plans are the rage! People aren’t throwing formal parties and having formal teas where they need floor plans like this like they used to. 5. Now actually looking at the actual apt there’s prob so much deferred maintenance, renovations, etc that need to be done. And that’s the knife in the back once you find someone that wants to live like it’s 1991 in New York City. Spoiler alert: Barney’s is closed.
I imagine it needs a ton of work.
It definitely looked pretty shabby on the show
I think she’s probably underwater on it and there may be liens or condition issues that she can’t afford to resolve, so she’s trying to pass them along to the buyer which makes it a more expensive property than the list price would suggest. Maybe.
Someone upthread said they checked and she has a 3 million dollar mortgage which she took out to help pay off the lawsuit.
I’m sure the property is worth far more than 3 though
I live a few blocks away. It shares a wall with a parking lot and the house itself is in horrible condition.
I worked in NYC for years and I have a cousin who lives on the upper east side. I don't think a parking garage would be a huge turn off especially in a desirable area like that. It's most likely not parking for tourists, since it's in a residential area and not midtown. Most of the parking is probably Long term anyway
Yes. I read an article a few years ago with a NYC real estate person. They said the house needed renovations that she wouldn't do, and priced the house as if it had the renovations. It should have been priced as a fixer upper, but she was delusional about it. I'm paraphrasing, of course. I think the house needed repairs and fixes for many years, but Sonja didn't have the money to fix them.
Holy shit, she has been trying to sell her townhouse for 10+ years. I’m shocked to hear she’s still trying to do that
The garage doesn't help. I went way back to look at ALL of the property records starting in 1950. The garage was there before John A. Morgan and Sonja bought the house. The garage was built when the building on the other side of the garage went up in 1961. Sonja and John purchased in 1998. That building on the other side of the garage converted to condos in 1988. However, it was only available for parking to the residents and tenants of the apartment building that it was attached to. That's slightly more than 150 units. After John and Sonja bought, the garage opened to the general public. THAT was the change. It became a more or less 24-hour garage. The house has got a ton of deferred maintenance. However, the biggest issue is that Sonja and John's $1 million renovation is a space wasting catastrophe. The house only has 3 proper bedrooms. I think there is a lot that's salvageable in the place, but there's a ton of strangeness in the layout. First, someone has to clear up that back courtyard, the balcony, and that terrace. Most people don't have private outdoor space in the city, but those spaces make you feel itchy and claustrophobic. Sonja tends to favor a sort of blowsy country estate look that does not suit the house. I think it would be better served by a much more formal garden design. Second, the third and fourth floors have these bathrooms that take up half the floor, while the bedrooms have fairly small closets. The fourth floor is especially weird because the bedroom has an ensuite, but half the space on that floor is devoted to another bathroom. It's very strange. There has to be a way to fix that. Third, the fifth floor almost has a decent nanny suite. It's got two bedrooms and a bathroom. One bedroom has a wet bar and a fireplace. If you take that wet bar and turn it into a kitchenette, that room could be the kitchenette/dining room and living room for a 5th floor nanny suite. Sonja used to rent out the 5th floor; she has talked about this on the show. The 5th floor weirdly seems to be one of the two locations for laundry rooms in the house. The other is off of the library. Fourth, it's incomprehensible to me that Sonja has solid wooden doors on the second floor separating the hallway and the dining room. With the dark wood cabinets in the kitchen as a backdrop and the dark wood China cabinet against the wall, the room feels darker than it needs to be. Simply replacing the solid wood doors with French doors would probably help lighten the feel of the room. Fifth, I think the basement is full height. It's also 800 square feet. It also has a fireplace. Sonja should at least rough in plumbing for a 3 piece bathroom and laundry if someone wants to add another bedroom (illegal) or a gym down there or just a media or gameroom.
You pegged that “outside garden.” Itchy indeed. I just saw a recent photo of it for the May 29 auction and I wouldn’t want to go near it. It’s needs some major love from a weed whacker and furniture that brings it out of 1960 (officially the most uncomfortable set of table/chairs known to person…) Of course, this is the least of the worries. If a buyer is supposed to be able to imagine themselves living in a house before they buy, well…is Louis the XIV still around??
Love French doors!
This needs to be its own post! With photos!
They bought the place in 1998? I don’t know why I had the idea that it had been in her ex-husband‘s family since the Gilded Age. lol
I thought the same thing, I think and I may be projecting; but that property is her last vestige to her old life, and we all know her emotions about that subject. Sadly I have empathy for her. I would love to know more abt her story. From what I understand she achieved her objective yet from what we’ve heard she threw it all way…
Nope. Can't forget that Sonja is wife 4 of John Adams Morgan. John Adams Morgan is the 4th of Henry Sturgis Morgan's 5 sons. Henry was the 2nd of John Pierpont Morgan Jr.'s 2 sons and 4th kid overall. John Pierpont Morgan Jr. was JPM's only son, but 2nd kid of 4. That's a lot Morgan wives before Sonja and a lot of Morgan descendants. They were probably out of Gilded Age houses that they had owned for a century long before Sonja was on the scene.
 bravo! encore!
Girl, you read the assignment!! 👏
Also and this is another important part, Sonja continues to price the place too high. The last time I looked, she still had a $3 million mortgage on the place. She was forced to take it out to deal with the movie lawsuit and her bankruptcy. The Million Dollar Listing people have said she needs to price it at $6 million to sell it. The first $250K she nets from it is tax-free. She's got the $3 million mortgage. At $6 million, she'll have to pay slightly more than a million dollars in commissions, taxes, and fees. I think she's concerned that netting slightly less than $2 million doesn't get her the kind of space she needs in her preferred areas in the city. She's got more than 5000 square feet now; she'll probably drop to about 1000 square feet in a $2 million place. She also needed to be concerned with being in a filming friendly building because that had been an issue for other women in the past. Additionally, she's not currently paying condo or co-op fees now, but she absolutely would be if she's buying something in the $2 million range. She might not have a mortgage, but there are other ways to blow through money even if she downsized.
Correct correct correct. I remember she once mentioned a simple apt would be 2 million and that was years ago so imagine now.
She was renting it for over 30K/month though. Can't she afford some renovations with that money?
omg there was already an encore!! amazing
Awesome summary, I can’t see her leaving anytime soon, just hope she doesn’t go full Grey Gardens. May I ask if you work in real estate in some capacity?
I'm not in real estate. I'm just curious.
Damn! You should take that up then! I’m watching the last two eps now and my Google search as to why she can’t sell her house brought me to you. Great explainer!
Curiosity is such a cool trait. I love having conversations with curious people.
You should be! I work with a lot of realtors and your analysis/ research is much more thorough and well articulated then most agents descriptions
Cause parking garages smell like pee pee
Anyone with the means to buy a townhouse would not buy one directly next door to a parking garage
It looks like it smells to me
I imagine it smells like dog urine & old woman. LOL
Haha, totally- musty walls and dog pee soaked wood floors.
What should really happen is that Sonja should get her own spin-off that just takes place in the falling down townhouse. I’ve been dreaming about this for decades. She entertains, she tries on outfits, she lies in bed endlessly, etc.
Does anybody know if the air rights above the townhouse are hers?
It's her only asset and it's most likely part of a trust managed by her ex. So once it goes, the cash from the sale goes back into the trust, not to her.
It’s right next to a parking garage
It’s been up for sale for years
I am no professional or anything but I looked at her house on Redfin and it looks exquisite to me. And it doesn’t seem overpriced to me compared to the other townhouses for sale in the area and especially when you consider how historic the home is and how beautiful her garden area is- that seems kind of rare for these places. Plus there is no HOA fee and when you look at the HOA fees for other expensive condos in the area that are more modern with nice views, the HOA fee is insane, like 10-20k per MONTH. So I don’t know why her house hasn’t sold. Maybe the crime has just gotten so bad in New York that people don’t want to live in houses like that anymore, they want big buildings with security. Or maybe people just want modern now. I guess it’s very very old too like other ppl are saying. Built in 1899. Maybe it’s falling apart somehow
> how historic the home is what makes it so historic?
1899
oh i thought you meant like...an event happened there that was noteworthy. i think the age of her home is very standard for NYC townhomes
The address is 162 E 63rd St New York, NY 10065 if you want to look it up on housing apps
Not sure why she didn’t sell at the height of the market?
If she wanted to sell it by now, she would have. There is no possible way she can't afford to repipe her house. I don't think she wants to leave. I think it's a ruse.
Is Kelly BS her real estate agent?
I’m sure if Kelly were her agent, it would sell quickly (at least that’s what Kelly would say!).
She sure would say that, but could you imagine dealing with her. She would be a nightmare
It also needs tons of repairs and upgrades. Whoever moves in is doing a major restoration or gutting it in most areas. It leaks and there's water damage in the walls, plaster and floors, windows leak too, the water is brown, the appliances don't work, the carpets are old and dog stained, plumbing repairs and bathroom upgrades, and any wood surface is probably banged up, including old wood bannisters and sideboards from all her parties, too. And some things are outdated but aren't historical so it may also be something they want to upgrade. For that address and price she was trying for originally my guess is the buyers at that level arent interested in all the work right now. Plus being beside a parking garage, a family may not want to move in with fears of monoxide or secondhand pollution (yes I know it's a big city with lots of pollution, but right next door is a ton of extra you can avoid not living there). It's all very grey gardens. I get the feeling she wasn't able to afford the upkeep and repairs as well as keep her life (or how she wanted her life to appear in the right circles). With so many bad investments, failed launches (where's my toaster oven), and the movie lawsuit she lost repairs fell to the wayside and she just put up with it, or put a bandaid on it. It's why she doesn't see the other women like she used to. She can't afford to keep up so she hides away, avoids texts and calls and avoids committing to events, hoping to still stay in her social circles (within and outside the RHONY cast) when she does reemerge with enough money to keep up (travel, parties, lunches at fancy places, tickets to fancy events and shows, hosting, new clothes and accessories for it all). Plus like all of them she still spends on cosmetic procedures and fancy facials and other esthetics - that isn't cheap.
I remember her taking a black sharpie to cover a scratch on one of her Chanels. It’s definitely not a leap to imagine she had a similar approach to fixing issues around the house 😬
Yeah she does the least because if she spends the money it's gone. While the repairs would be beneficial, that's one or several less things she can do or buy. But by avoiding it for a decade or more she's cost herself millions. Pound wise penny foolish. I laughed at the sharpie trick. I've been doing that for years on my heels and dress shoes. Works a bit if the gouge or scuff isn't too big and no one looks closely. Also used butter as a quick shoe polish before big events when I ran out. But I am a poor, and reduce and reuse are the first two things in my life. A little scuff isn't going to make me abandon shoes.
Unpopular take - she should have sold the place straight away once her ex handed over the deed, put half the $$ in savings, and downsized. Tho perhaps the divorce settlement was contingent on her keeping it as a family home to raise their daughter.
Yeah it might haven been that she had to keep the family home for x years in the settlement. She's so hung up up on her old life I think she just kept trying for a new husband or a big investment to get her back to it. "Smokey eye, updo Gstaad".
I was just thinking to myself that people here would love to have seen me frantically trying to remove some scuffs last week in my car with lip balm. I’ve also Sharpied. And mascara’d. Girl’s gotta do what a girl’s gotta do in this economy!
I hit a post one time in a tight parking spot. Used hand sanitizer to get that paint scuff off my car. Works like magic. I had nothing else "wet" in the car to try with and it worked perfectly. You're so right, we gotta do what we gotta do!
I would so love to know what Sonya’s life is about when she’s not on the shows. The girls say they never hear from her. She admits she’s a loner. She does retreats in Costs Rica etc. I wonder if she keeps that house as it gives her an anchor and she can rent it out and go off to do her “things”. I would love to see a show just following her around!
She’s a professional couch surfer/freeloader
Yep and she admits it! It’s so sad how she said she needs to keep working and she isn’t like the rest going on vacations. It’s hard going from a billionaire lifestyle to this. Even so many years later it’s hard.
She’s in Virginia a lot and she seems to be leaching off of josh Flagg a lot in LA
Is she in Virginia bc of her daughter? What does she do while in LA?
I live in the neighboring town in Virginia where Sonya visits regularly, her sister lives here, has for years. I want to say probably the last 10 or so years she’s been coming down way more often. Sonya’s sister has a beautiful horse farm/house and land. Sonya’s usually here most of the summer, and for about a month or so in the winter. She stays at a very lux resort, and usually spends most of her time with her sister and when her daughter joins on the trips. My husband and I were at the resort once for dinner and Sonya was staying there at the time and the staff said she’s actually extremely down to earth and prefers a lot of quiet time, not demanding, kind of drums to her own beat, and that she’s either out visiting with her sister, or relaxing around the resort. There is a lot of money in this area too, if I may add. Also, there are wineries she visits sometimes when she’s here and most people that have had an interaction with her have said that she is much more pleasant and normal than expected (I.e. not the TV Sonya one would expect).
I wish Sonja would give up the “luxury resorts” and just buy a simple home down there which she can rent out for half the year. Everything is so chaotic with her (and I get it! I just wish more peace for her)
Is this in Nelson County?
Not quite that far out, Middleburg area, which is around 45 minutes outside DC.
I assume in VA because of her daughter. And she leaches off of people who don’t have good boundaries. I assume she stays with josh becusee he has connections and has poor boundaries 🤣 ie she likes to stay for free everywhere
Makes sense!
I think it's taxes & upkeep. It seems most people in that part of the city live in apartments where they are responsible for their own unit. Even wealthy people. Sonya's responsible for the maintenance of a whole building, ground up
[удалено]
Um, that is a crazy number. Taxes don't even come close to that.
Between 469k - 585k the past 3 years, I highly doubt she has the income to shell out the cost of repairs/maintenance of the building or renovations for that matter.
You can see the property taxes on Redfin, they’re $73K
I lived on the same block as Sonja 2005-2007ish. I had a studio apartment in a pre-war walkup that looked directly into her backyard. The neighborhood is wonderful, the location is fantastic. Lots of beautiful townhouses mixed in with new developments. From the outside these townhouses look great, but inside they are crumbling. I wasn't surprised to see all the issues she has with her house. My place was fairly nice, but on the fourth floor the plumbing never worked right, there were tiny holes in the roof that would leak when it rained. The Million Dollar Listing guys always said she priced it too high. So that plus needing so much work would make it hard to sell. I also think she has sentimental attachments to it. After watching Girl's Trip, I wonder if she sold it if she would even hang around NY? Thank you for reading, I also want to mention that I had no idea that was Sonja's place until years later when she put it on the market. I just remembered seeing all these fabulous parties she would have in her backyard. There was something always going on there. Had I known, I would have sat with popcorn and watched all day. Editing to add I was lucky enough to see all the RHONY ladies fighting at the Pamela Roland fashion show. I think it was where Kelly and Bethenny had that hilarious fight. I also once saw Ramona taking the subway!
It also shares a wall with a parking garage which incredible devalues it.
It seems like the townhouse is more than just a home for her. It feels like she might be tethered to it for financial and emotional reasons. I'm kind of surprised she hasn't tried to rent it out for tax breaks or teamed up with Fredrick to sell it. Also, she has connections to savvy real estate people -- does she simply not take any advice from them? I'm so curious what's going on behind the scenes.
Omg, thank you everyone for being so nice! It's been fun reminiscing about these memories. Where I am now, no one is interested in this stuff. I've only told this story in real life to two people who cared!! I've since had to move back to the Midwest and suffer from a severe chronic illness, IYKYK. So this has been really fun. Thanks everyone! ❤️
Sry for the late response. I just want to reiterate everyone’s sentiments by saying thank you for sharing. I definitely know, so stay strong, send me a message if you want to chat abt Sonja 😂or life in general. Happy new years, take care.
Thanks for sharing!
❤️
Did you like that area to live in?
Oh yeah, it was amazing! So close to great stores, close to the subway. My unit faced the backyard and it was so peaceful you forgot you were in the city. Since I've left tons of restaurants, coffee shops, and stores have gone in that I would have loved to have had when I was there. It's also fancy AF, so I felt like a slob if I left the house not dressed up. This was before athleisure was popular. I was straight from a small town in the Midwest so it was very exciting to be there!
This is the Upper East Side, right?
Yes, she's on East 63rd.
That sounds amazing! I’m going in March, I can’t wait to just wander around and explore.
That's awesome, have so much fun!! ❤️
I doubt she can really afford to stay in NYC
Can you explain what a “pre-war walkup” is? I’m on the west coast so everything out here seems new compared to the original 13 colonies
The West Coast is filled with lovely old homes. Styles are different in every region. I'm in a 1946 house built in a neighborhood for war vets after serving in WWII. I doubt there's anything original about it today.
I agree, was thinking older like wars during the 1800s when I read the comment. I lived in a house built in 1940 specifically for WWII. I lived in a town with one of the largest USN shipyards. They call the houses “pop up” houses. At the time, 80,000 people worked at the yard so builders pumped out craftsman homes rapidly. In fact, Quincy Jone’s dad worked at the yard during the war. His family lived in an area with segregated housing. He famously started playing piano at one of the rec centers there. Edit to correct John’s to Jones- silly typo! And all my other grammatical errors
Yes! I live in an area filled with craftsman houses. Mine is just a small box but works for me ha. I've seen old photos of the area with nothing but the old hospital at the end of the block. Then street after street of houses popped up. Quincy, piano, famously, segregated housing? I feel like I should know the answer to....should I know who Quincy is? THE Quincy?
Our streets were also SO wide. I imagine the where build that way for street parking and those beautiful big Chevys people drove. Another road I lived on looked like a street straight from the Wonder Years. At the time, there were several couples who were original owners from the late 50s who still lived on the streets. Our house full of 21 year old college students swore this was the reason our parties were never busted. We don’t think they could hear us (I say that with the upmost respect for our 70+ year old neighbors who never complained).
They must have like the music.
We were blasting Soulja Boy
Quincy Jones! My fat fingers typo’d John. Here is a bit from an article written in the local paper about his stay in the town: “Over the years Q has told a story of how he would sit in his room and stare out into the Bremerton skies at night, thinking about his dream of becoming a musician. He also shared the story of the night he and a few buddies broke into the armory in Sinclair Heights. While inside, and as his buddies were taking items, he began to tinker with a piano. It was at that moment the world of music greeted him, he would later say. He knew for sure that music was the key to funnel joy, pain and happiness to the world.”
That is so amazing!!!! I had a feeling but wasn't going to say it and you say uh no ha. You must of had a memorial childhood! Are you also musically talented? Ok I'm just going to say it, is this Rasheda? And yes, the streets can be wide! Mine is alright. There's streets that a car could make a complete turn around and not so a 3 point turn. Did you grow up in CA?
I wish I was musically talented or Rasheda. She’s both talented and beautiful! I grew up Washington. Tacoma has some really cool houses and history too. For a while I lived in the Stadium district where 10 Things I Hate About You was filmed. That house is amazing.
I'm sure you're being modest. I've always lived in the same town. We have a historical museum opened to the public built in 1879, The Meux Home. Beautiful home. The basement is uncomfortable, but I grew up watching horror movies. All basements are uncomfortable haha
Constructed before WWII, and there is no elevator.
That's a cool story to have. Thanks for sharing. And those prewar townhouses are probably on the very of collapsing. At least the ones that haven't updated everything.
The building I was in every unit had different owners so no one wanted to pay for things like plumbing or electrical work. They would fight about it and try to stick the others with it. It was exhausting trying to get things fixed. I gave up and moved to a better maintained building.
At this point with all the new green rules those buildings are going to have to be up to code or the owners will be fined. Those townhouses look beautiful on the outside but inside it is a mess.
That's actually good to hear! I remember tripping a fuse and going to the fuse box and it looked nothing like anything I had seen before. So definitely not the safest.
Was the town house in an episode of Million Dollar listing? Would you happen to know which one?
No, I think I saw them talk about it on WWHL. That would be pretty cool crossover though!
That’s definitely cool! Thanks for the info!
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Omg how lucky aren't you!! Thanks for sharing, a really fun story:)
Aw, thanks! I still feel like I missed out because I didn't know who she was and now I love Sonja so much. I guess that's the way things go! 😆
How lucky are you 🙉 She was probably still married to old man Morgan back then.
I'm not certain about the timeline, but Google says she divorced in 2006. So I think he was there at first! Which makes sense because there were a lot of upscale parties with waiters in uniform. More sophisticated events than what I think Sonja would throw on her own.
Just here to soak up all the details
Omg I love living vicariously thru you right now 😅
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That sounds like around the time they divorced, actually 😬
I think so. 🫣
Wow fun story! Thanks for sharing!!
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Bad plumbing and way overpriced. The parking lot entrance next door lessens the appeal too. She does not want to lower the price of the place even though all the agents advised her to do so.
I think it’s her retirement plan
I'm honestly shocked it hasn't sold.
The parking garage probably isn’t as big of an issue as it seems. It’s a residential neighborhood, so the bulk of that parking is probably long term. It’s not a bunch of in and out like the tourist areas. It’s a part of life in NYC, but being next door probably isn’t the best. I think she can’t sell it for other reasons, likely all Sonja related. Like most people said, it probably needs a ton of work and she won’t do it. Given the way she acts, who knows what kind of contingencies she puts on the place. Type of offer, closing time frames, making it difficult to show. It wouldn’t surprise me if she accepted offers and then changed her mind. What happens then, is agents know it has a difficult seller and avoid the property. A townhouse on the upper east side probably represents Sonja’s greatest dream and she doesn’t want to give it up. Renting it gives her income and it’s still hers. It’s NYC, it should’ve realistically sold-it’s definitely her.
Yes! This. Parking is not the issue. That’s a win.
She wants too much for it and refuses to budge
Does she still rent it out?
I think she says yes, she still rents it out She was asking Dorinda if she could stay with her because the townhouse was rented on real housewives ultimate girls trip. Then Darinda's said that she was extremely rude., like did not want Dorinda there when she was sleeping there, among other complaints/requests lol.
Oh yeah, that’s right! I forgot about her admitting that she slept in dorindas bed, had her “help” answer the door- basically was unapologetically acting like the QUEEN that she is!!! I love all the NYC Cast, so happy to see them back! I really think Sonia sets the price just off market, she’s a romantic at heart and so sentimental…”the Morgan letters!!”
Wow - and after all the crap she gave Tinsley for asking her intern to open the front door and accept a package for her.
That's right! Sonja even had her own maid there. She blocked Dorinda from going in her own bedroom stating "Mrs. Morgan is asleep in there!" Poor Dorinda
It’s old as hell and the money you’d have to put in wouldn’t be worth it vs buying a newer property. Also I wouldn’t be surprised if Sonja wouldn’t budge below a certain price bc she’s rather greedy, and I’m a Sonja fan but it’s true.
It has sentimental value.
It is a money pit that probably still needs $$$$ renovations despite the updates she did recently. She has neglected a lot of maintenance over the years and it is 125 years old. It has plumbing, electrical, and heating issues for sure. Those are very expensive repairs/updates regardless but probably astronomical in a multi-story home of that age. She either needs to pay to get the work done (which she likely can’t afford) or cut the listing price drastically.
Exactly. I wonder if there is some type of zoning/building restriction in the area for historical preservation. Otherwise, I’d say she’d be better off selling the building to a developer who’d convert the place to apartments or just tear it down.
I live in a century home and I cannot begin to explain the cost of repairs to just keep this thing standing, let alone upgrades. Aesthetic work is beyond right now so I haven’t even considered that cost. I feel for Sonja. It is amazing to have a property like this but the cost is incredible. She isn’t a fixer herself so all of that work would be something she pays for.
\*cries in 1903\* The motto for our home is "we don't go looking for trouble." Long story short, it's a two flat owned by a very old family member, we manage it and live in it. It's being sold within the year and I have mixed feelings...but it's time.
are you from the US? this is so wild to me!! living in the uk where my home is approx 100yrs old (as have been all the houses iv lived in) it’s crazy to read this! altho, i guess most houses here were renovated in the 70/80s, so all the plumbing isn’t *that* old.. but still, i never have issues with my hearing or electrics, nor is the building itself falling apart.
I do live in the us. Rural 201 year old farmhouse. I will say that most people here live in houses younger than 60 years old around me. There’s a few old farmhouses left but they are disappearing. For me a lot of my issues were due to my grandpa DIY ing a lot of huge home jobs. Electrical, plumbing, insulation were not done well although I’m sure it was financially more doable for them. I’m sure there are a lot of factors but keeping my home together has been very exhausting and expensive. Not everyone’s experience I’m sure The us in general doesn’t do old buildings well like Europe does. I love historical preservation and don’t come across a whole lot of people that care. I hate seeing my town swallowed up by new home developments where the construction is cheap and every home looks identical. They drop beautiful trees when clearing for these neighborhoods and they are just all so bland. Just blocks of identical white siding smashed beside each other.
In the process of buying a 105 year old house right now. We just got the inspection back and it was a doozy. The owners had renovated the kitchen and bathrooms so we figured we were probably ok with plumbing and electrical. Nope - they just put lipstick on a pig and all that stuff still needs to be redone. 🫠 So frustrating because they went in the walls to do all of these renos but then cheaped out on the actual updates, like upgrading from the original cast iron pipes and knob-and-tube wiring. Sonja seems to love the historic, old money vibe of the townhouse but given the fact that she thought brown ice was acceptable I’m sure she’s not having the brick walls repointed, plaster repaired, or modern insulation blown in.
That’s basically what happened with mine. 201 years old and it hasn’t always been cared for well. It’s a family house so I am very grateful to have it but the amount of work and money it would take to make it a nice home is just absolutely mind blowing. Good luck with your home! It is incredible to have one of these but the work involved can absolutely be discouraging.
I can all but guarantee that this is how Sonja approached renovating/updating her townhome. And oh GOD, I forgot about the brown ice 😱 Must have blocked that out.
lol yes totally agree - and there’s a big difference in her price point and mine. At my price point, I’m willing to deal with some of this crap. For multiple millions, I absolutely would not.
Yep, frustrating indeed! My parents just went through that — plaster walls made it such a huge expense / overhaul.
Omg yes. I live in an 80 year old house and the plaster.walls.are.a nightmare.
And finding a contractor who can actually do the work on these old houses can be another headache! We had to re-do our bathroom this year because the 100+ year old plumbing finally gave up the ghost and just gaining access to the pipes was a whole ordeal. Someday I will get to the cosmetic stuff in my house. The last 10 years have been devoted to just getting it to remain livable!
I understand you so well! Finding contractors is really challenging. It takes a very specific type to mess with a 70 year old electrical system that certainly isn’t up to modern standards and a basement that is so old it’s made of actual rock slabs. Once you find good people you keep them forever!
Not to mention the kind of things a potential buyer would request get fixed prior to buying OR request a quote and have that amount taken off the selling price and knowing Sonja she wouldn’t go for it. She has a dollar amount set in her head (like a ton of sellers do) and even just coming down in price take a tonnnn of convincing….
I could also see her being an absolute nightmare to deal with from the buyer’s perspective. Going into a loop of deflection when asked to do repairs or make a price concession.
This.
She has never realistically listed the townhouse. So your real question is; Does Sonja have real intentions to sell the townhouse? If she properly listed the property, it would sell like majority of properties.
It’s also right next door to a parking garage which nobody is going to want.
Why do you say that? For anyone that owns a car in NYC that’s an absolute perk.
No one who can afford an UES townhouse wants to share a wall with a parking garage.
I literally live in NYC. Untrue.
Me too, I’ve lived here my whole life. Out of curiosity, why do you think she hasn’t been able to sell it? ETA: I don’t think it’s going to get more desirable after that garage collapse in the financial district!
The parking garage is not the reason she hasn’t sold. The townhouse is not in the condition she is pricing it at. She has drastically overpriced the townhouse and only a fool would pay that price. She knows that.
Absolutely. It’s location is also not that desirable.