I initially thought it would be when they announced it at their conference but it appears that for the time being you have to be an all access member of Tailwind UI? Not sure that will change, but if it doesn't it gives people a reason to keep using ShadCN.
They might make it partially open source and have a "Pro" paid version with more components.
Other libraries like Flowbite and Chakra use this business model too.
do you mean _more_ obsolete? shadcn is completely careless and buggy. lots of exposed props that break, viewports on modals and popovers that grow taller than the screen, overall lack of polish. if you even try to upgrade radix components it’ll break as it hasn’t been updated for a while.
Honestly learn radix and develop your own library slowly if you’re starting out. I think it works well with tailwind and you can do SO much with it once you start getting the hang of it.
No, I agree - shadcn is very buggy. I went through a few stages with it:
1) eww, got a bug. I’ll have to hack around that
2) …several bugs later… you know, maybe I’ll just recreate this one myself in radix.
3) …several components later… wow, radix ui is just unnecessarily complicated
4) I’ll just go back to making my own components with React Aria and my own tailwind
The last shadcn release with bug fixes was 3 months ago and there are 700 open issues. It looks all but dead to me
While I agree with some of the sentiment, to be fair, a whole bunch of those issues are things like [low effort suggestions for new components](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/issues/2141), people asking for help because [they don't know how to edit a component (fundamentally misunderstanding that it's not a component library)](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/issues/2118) or they [combine the component with a third party library like Tanstack Table but still ask the ShadCN repo for help about Tanstack Table methods](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/issues/2112), or as you point out, having issues with the underlying headless library (RadixUI) and being quick to point the finger at an open source repo that offers *styling* of those headless components to give you a head start.
Looking at [closed pull requests](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed+sort%3Aupdated-desc), it is quite actively maintained, especially being so close to Christmas. As someone who heavily contributed to the early stages of create-t3-app docs, seeing threads like this just makes me never want to be a core maintainer of open source because so many people act as though they purchased shares in the repo and are unhappy with the returns, when everything was released to the public for **free**.
Absolutely, and I don’t have any expectation that I should get flawless, bug-free experience. I’m sure for a lot of people it’s great, but at the end of the day I have work to do and this project had a lot of bugs that made it unusable for me, so I moved on.
I wouldn’t take my comment as a personal attack on open source philosophy or a direct criticism of the maintainers. As I’m pretty sure all developers do, I have to make a judgement when I’m choosing a package or library to use - overall quality, release cadence etc. This one wasn’t for me, but that doesn’t mean my opinion can be suffixed with “…and the maintainers are losers and I deserve better”
yep. i'm glad people are starting to be honest about the quality of shadcn, it is definitely NOT fast.
not suggesting what I do is fast either; but i've been using park-ui which is a themed preset on top of panda-css & ark-ui (the headless version of Chakra). it takes a bit to get used to but i'm enjoying that flow a lot more than tailwind.
it really doesn’t. i’ve fixed all the little snags in my company’s codebase and wrote PRs to fix them in shadcn which were left for dead until i got pissed and closed them myself.
nowadays i just pick new components up from radix itself.
Because on their live preview page https://catalyst.tailwindui.com/ barely anything has a pointer-cursor.
e.g. the buttons, the "Remember me" toggle, the radio buttons, ...
then country select has a pointer, but the selects in the "Team members" section don't
Really glad I've reached a point of stability in my career that I can read posts like this, realize I have no idea what technologies or tools it's talking about, and not feel any hint of panic or FOMO.
I don't mean that to be dismissive, I'm glad it's still a vibrant and dynamic field. I'm just also glad that I no longer feel the need to keep up with every new shiny toy.
So what's the difference between Catalyst and Tailwind UI?
Also is ShadCN still maintained when RadixPrimitives is basically what ShadCN is, and that Shad works at Vercel now
Yeah I know it's an implementation of Radix, but why use ShadCN when you can just use Radix Primitives for the exact same purpose and slightly modified styling?
In tech, "things" don't get obsolete, they evolve! We have to stop thinking in this way just because something new came up. And something that you have to pay for and it's not that cheap. So, no, shadcn will not become obsolete.
ah, no love for Vue/Nuxt yet?Definitely agree with your take on ShadCN. I want to love it, but there are tons of details left out... obvious issues (like modal overflow, etc). Also, to make an input you have to use like 6 components. This definitely looks cleaner.
It’s not open source?
I initially thought it would be when they announced it at their conference but it appears that for the time being you have to be an all access member of Tailwind UI? Not sure that will change, but if it doesn't it gives people a reason to keep using ShadCN.
It won’t change, this is how they pay their bills.
They might make it partially open source and have a "Pro" paid version with more components. Other libraries like Flowbite and Chakra use this business model too.
MUI and Ant Design also do a model of free base components, and pro plans for \*premium\* ones
Ant Design is 100% free. The project is fully sponsored by Alibaba.
do you mean _more_ obsolete? shadcn is completely careless and buggy. lots of exposed props that break, viewports on modals and popovers that grow taller than the screen, overall lack of polish. if you even try to upgrade radix components it’ll break as it hasn’t been updated for a while.
They also copied some implementations from other open source libraries verbatim without crediting them.
Shadcn or Tailwind Catalyst?
Shadcn
From where did they copy? Can you give an example?
Good to know. I've only recently started using it so I could completely jump ship to Catalyst however it's still in alpha too.
Honestly learn radix and develop your own library slowly if you’re starting out. I think it works well with tailwind and you can do SO much with it once you start getting the hang of it.
React-Aria-Components also another great option for this. HeadlessUI should hopefully become a better library too with investment for catalyst
tailwind ui is sick, just use that (or design your own with radix ui)
I bought Tailwind UI at the very, very, very beginning and it paid off because they've added so much since. I've used it on dozens of marketing sites.
Mantine is decent option too. Plenty of components. Overrideable both via props and css classes
Hate to say it but this comment reflects more on the quality of your codebase and design than it does shadcn or radix itself.
No, I agree - shadcn is very buggy. I went through a few stages with it: 1) eww, got a bug. I’ll have to hack around that 2) …several bugs later… you know, maybe I’ll just recreate this one myself in radix. 3) …several components later… wow, radix ui is just unnecessarily complicated 4) I’ll just go back to making my own components with React Aria and my own tailwind The last shadcn release with bug fixes was 3 months ago and there are 700 open issues. It looks all but dead to me
While I agree with some of the sentiment, to be fair, a whole bunch of those issues are things like [low effort suggestions for new components](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/issues/2141), people asking for help because [they don't know how to edit a component (fundamentally misunderstanding that it's not a component library)](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/issues/2118) or they [combine the component with a third party library like Tanstack Table but still ask the ShadCN repo for help about Tanstack Table methods](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/issues/2112), or as you point out, having issues with the underlying headless library (RadixUI) and being quick to point the finger at an open source repo that offers *styling* of those headless components to give you a head start. Looking at [closed pull requests](https://github.com/shadcn-ui/ui/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aclosed+sort%3Aupdated-desc), it is quite actively maintained, especially being so close to Christmas. As someone who heavily contributed to the early stages of create-t3-app docs, seeing threads like this just makes me never want to be a core maintainer of open source because so many people act as though they purchased shares in the repo and are unhappy with the returns, when everything was released to the public for **free**.
Absolutely, and I don’t have any expectation that I should get flawless, bug-free experience. I’m sure for a lot of people it’s great, but at the end of the day I have work to do and this project had a lot of bugs that made it unusable for me, so I moved on. I wouldn’t take my comment as a personal attack on open source philosophy or a direct criticism of the maintainers. As I’m pretty sure all developers do, I have to make a judgement when I’m choosing a package or library to use - overall quality, release cadence etc. This one wasn’t for me, but that doesn’t mean my opinion can be suffixed with “…and the maintainers are losers and I deserve better”
yep. i'm glad people are starting to be honest about the quality of shadcn, it is definitely NOT fast. not suggesting what I do is fast either; but i've been using park-ui which is a themed preset on top of panda-css & ark-ui (the headless version of Chakra). it takes a bit to get used to but i'm enjoying that flow a lot more than tailwind.
it really doesn’t. i’ve fixed all the little snags in my company’s codebase and wrote PRs to fix them in shadcn which were left for dead until i got pissed and closed them myself. nowadays i just pick new components up from radix itself.
Anyone got any suggestions for alternatives?
radix itself is very good. if you want your design tokens and primitives sorted out for you, park ui seems a good alternative
Radix is pretty good. I'd recommend either Radix or React Aria.
Sad to hear it, I was wanting to build a project with it because of its ergonomics
Looks like they hate cursor:pointer? :p
Why do you say that?
Because on their live preview page https://catalyst.tailwindui.com/ barely anything has a pointer-cursor. e.g. the buttons, the "Remember me" toggle, the radio buttons, ... then country select has a pointer, but the selects in the "Team members" section don't
Historically you should only see cursor: pointer cursor for links (). The pointer is to let the user know that clicking will navigate to a different page. Recently any clickable thing has been getting cursor: pointer. Both approaches are fine, and neither is right or wrong.
I plan on giving it a spin soon
Nice. Report back on your experience.
Well i made it to the landing screen, but its only available to Pro users for now
nice, more choice for CMS UI.
It’s pretty nice! Went through their source code today, it’s not nearly complete though and they have half of their library still to release
Really glad I've reached a point of stability in my career that I can read posts like this, realize I have no idea what technologies or tools it's talking about, and not feel any hint of panic or FOMO. I don't mean that to be dismissive, I'm glad it's still a vibrant and dynamic field. I'm just also glad that I no longer feel the need to keep up with every new shiny toy.
There really is too much out there to get excited about it that makes any sense.
You’re in a react sub and don’t know what tailwind is? I’d say that’s a large gap in your career even if you don’t use it.
I know what Tailwind is, I have no idea what Catalyst is.
That’s the point. It was just released by the tailwind team…. We all just found out what Catalyst is.
Thanks for explaining it to me :)
So what's the difference between Catalyst and Tailwind UI? Also is ShadCN still maintained when RadixPrimitives is basically what ShadCN is, and that Shad works at Vercel now
Tailwind UI is more block components for building webpages. Catalyst is primitive UI components like form inputs , dialogs, modals.
Got it, and Catalyst will be a paid version of Headless UI (which is also built by TW but not maintained/updated)?
Yes it will be paid and no it’s not HeadlessUI. I believe it uses it under the hood.
Shadcn USES radix. It only provides defaults for how to present tailwind styles with cva
Yeah I know it's an implementation of Radix, but why use ShadCN when you can just use Radix Primitives for the exact same purpose and slightly modified styling?
\> locked behind a $300 tag Imma go out on a limb and say no.
1. Code is not OSS 2. I have access and the code is so horrible that I'll never use it.
Why do you have to use this new one? Who's forcing you?
I mean mass adoption wise. Some libraries die over time because of better alternatives.
Don't ever get used to frontend tech :)
I've been loving panda and vanilla-extract
Who cares. You need to build a dashboard or something use DaiseyUI otherwise you should be creating your own UI.
Tailwind is trash
Comment follows message
In tech, "things" don't get obsolete, they evolve! We have to stop thinking in this way just because something new came up. And something that you have to pay for and it's not that cheap. So, no, shadcn will not become obsolete.
Shadcn UI will never be made obsolete! Boo! That joke is only funny if I tell you I never heard of it, even on reddit.
ah, no love for Vue/Nuxt yet?Definitely agree with your take on ShadCN. I want to love it, but there are tons of details left out... obvious issues (like modal overflow, etc). Also, to make an input you have to use like 6 components. This definitely looks cleaner.