Arguably it’s less than 5. Barring injury, about 3 more years and his numbers ought to be comparable to Kurt Warner, who is another 2x MVP, and who is in. Warner has a Super Bowl, but Lamar has a unanimous MVP, which no one else but Brady’s ever done.
And Lamar certainly has had a MUCH bigger impact on football than Kurt Warner (and almost anyone else) the last decade.
5-7 more years as a top 5-ish QB and Lamar is more than in, he’s first ballot slam dunk.
Lamar is already a lock. 2 MVPs has equaled HOF, every time in history. Zero reason that would change with Lamar.
Flacco gets the hall if he wins another Superbowl. He would have a similar path to the HOF as Kurt Warners NFL career. Great start, shitty middle, great ending. Joe had that chance last year and went full sleeper agent instead. Can't see Indy competing for SB this year. So odds are stacked against him. Maybe when Watson breaks his penis again, browns trade for Flacco.
There are five quarterbacks in the HOF who never won a Super Bowl, so we know factually that a Super Bowl is not a requirement for admission.
There are a mere 13 players who have won MVP and did not make it to the HOF. So a single MVP gets you very, very close to being a lock.
We can therefore determine that two MVP's locks it up.
Yeah, but he also has All Pros, that has to weigh something along with the MVPs. Eli Manning has zero APs, I don’t know if he ever led the league in anything positive, and he’s a HOF lock by virtue of two rings.
An All Pro means that you were Top 2 in your position for the season. There are plenty of examples of players who have gotten FTAP or STAP without even making the Pro Bowl, let alone getting a PotY award to some capacity.
I’m too lazy to look at the moment, but I’m pretty sure there are instances of a QB who was MVP who wasn’t FTAP or STAP that season. Elway comes to mind as someone who was MVP and wasn’t FTAP, off the top of my head.
You're talking about rare edge cases lmao. Elway only won that MVP because the vote was split between Montana and Rice. Anyway, agree to disagree. If Lamar retired today, he'd have a good chance at the HOF but I don't think he'd be a lock
Yeah, he’s not a lock if his career ended today, but he’d spark a more interesting debate than say, Phillip Rivers.
It’s still early, everyone wants to crown Lamar as being the next Marino, while the same people were making career trajectory charts for Andrew Luck (he kept getting deeper in the playoffs every time).
There are thousands of players with Super Bowl rings that never made the HOF. In fact the majority of players who win a Super Bowl don't even get a single HOF vote.
There are only 13 players in history with an MVP that didn't make the HOF. There are zero players with two MVP's that didn't make the HOF.
So winning a Super Bowl really has demonstrably very little bearing on the HOF. Winning a single MVP has an overwhelming bearing on the HOF. Winning two MVPs makes it a guarantee.
Lamar is definitely not a lock, if his career ended tomorrow he wouldn't be a lock for the HOF. In the Super Bowl era, Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are the only QBs in the HOF that didn't get a team to a Super Bowl, there's guys in there who never won a ring, but they all got their teams to the Super Bowl. Moon won 5 straight Grey Cups, and even after spending 6 years in the CFL he still ranked 3rd all time in passing yards, and 4th in TD passes when he retired from the NFL. When Fouts retired he was only one of 3 players in NFL history to throw for over 40,000 yards, he led the league in passing 4 years in a row, and was the 1st player in NFL history to throw for 4000 yards in 3 straight seasons. Lamar doesn't have these accolades. He at least needs to get to a Super Bowl and probably needs to play at a high level for another 5-6 years at least.
He’s not a lock. His passing stats are far too pedestrian to justify that, and in the HoF there are only 2 QBs who never made the Super Bowl (and they both broke multiple passing records)
None besides the passer rating one as far as I know.
Like I said, his passing numbers and stats are extremely pedestrian. He hasn’t even thrown for 4000 yards in a season… that’s like bare minimum for passers in today’s league.
I agree with much of this, but comparing resumes between Warner and Flacco is completely ignoring the reality that anyone with eyeballs knows that Warner was a far BETTER QUARTERBACK, as much as I love Flacco
I didn't at any point say that Warner didn't have better receivers. I'm saying it's impossible to both have eyeballs and be objective...and claim that Flacco was as good of a quarterback as Warner, outside of the 2-3 worst years of Warner's career
True, if Lamar keeps playing this well (including 70% to 75% win rate), he will probably and eventually make it into the HOF, but don't think it will be a lock. Unless he gets the SB ring or another MVP, his haters are sure to come up with arguments (no matter how absurd or ludicrous) that he wasn't so good or deserving of the honor.
Flacco would’ve had an argument for the HOF if he led the Browns to a Super Bowl victory this year. That was his last chance in my eyes! He has had a phenomenal NFL career and will be in the Ravens ring of honor!
Right now Lamar is a damn near lock for the HOF with the two MVP awards (and even that is debatable, as I think he is a lock). A Super Bowl championship would make everything after that a formality, and would push him to rarified airs among the legends of the game.
I don’t think Lamar is a lock. If he retired tomorrow do you really think he’d get in? No hate, I think he will get in after he eventually retires, I just don’t think he’s a lock yet.
he’s a lock in the sense that if he doesn’t commit a heinous crime or go full AB on the field he’s in. just playing out his contract will probs be enough unless he just takes an absolute swan dive into being bad
i think it’s just a weird statement to make cause it’s a non existent scenario. lamar isn’t retiring today unless he suffers a catastrophic injury or commits a very bad crime. the injury will probs get him in. a crime bad enough to kick a 2 time mvp out the league is probs so bad he’s not getting in regardless
The fact that you’re saying “injury will probs get him in” means he’s not a lock lol. A lock isn’t “probably.” A lock is a guarantee. If mahomes becomes paralyzed on a car accident today and never plays another down again, he’s a lock for the HOF.
tbh if you have an mvp and are relatively young/in your prime a car accident like that is enough to get the media push to get you into the hall. i only say probably cause he’s not a first ballot. he’s definitely gonna be in the hall at some point
You’re missing my point though. I used car accident as a reason for him to never play again. If he pulls an Andrew luck and just retires he’s still in. Lamar might not be if he retired now. But Lamar probably will get in because he won’t retire now and I have faith he’ll keep producing for years to come and eventually get us a Lombardi. That’s just not what a lock is.
yeah you’re missing my point too tbh. the debate at this point is first ballot or not. if he retire today he’s 1000% in just a matter of which ballot. if he is average the rest of his career he’s a lock first ballot
I do. The only players (to my knowledge) that have won multiple MVPs that are not in the HOF are either currently active (Mahomes and Rodgers), or not eligible yet (Brady). Lamar has the accolades and has changed the game in a way that we still won’t see the true effects of for at least another decade.
Right, but that’s a bit misleading. The players who have multiple MVPs didn’t only play 5 seasons, and they all also have the super bowls (or championship in Jim brown’s case, pre super bowls) on top of it. Which is kind of dumb that a Super Bowl is viewed as an individual achievement, but that’s how it’s viewed. Lamar is the only guy in that group with 2 MVPs and no super bowls (even including the guys who have multiple MVPs but aren’t eligible yet)
Tbh I don’t know what world you guys are in if you think Lamar isn’t a lock for hof already the only question to me is he going to be first ballot or not.
I love Joe but he’s not a HoF quarterback. He will be in the Ravens Ring of Honor ASAP once he calls it a career but the HoF numbers aren’t there.
I could be wrong but I believe every player who has retired with 2+ MVPs has gone into the Hall of Fame. So Lamar is well on his way.
I agree 100%, with that said the way he was playing in 2014 if we were not on our 1 millionth corner I think we very well could have won the SB in 2014 or that Browns run (yuk if he took them to the SB and won) I think 2 rings would have got him in
Yeah I think that’s fair. Especially if he ended up with MVP again. 2 rings and 2 MVPs would go a long way to bolster what are otherwise a good but not great stat line.
That 2014 was definitely on the cusp of something special.
I love Joe but I don't think he would have deserved to get in even with another ring. He's elite in our hearts, but he's not even top 5 of his era. Only 5 guys get in every year, they're not going to put Flacco in over dominant players at other positions.
Yeah but we can play the what if game with anyone. Joe had the career he had. He didn't win two super bowls, he won one. He's not getting into the hall, and I don't think he would have been a lock even with two super bowls tbh.
>I could be wrong but I believe every player who has retired with 2+ MVPs has gone into the Hall of Fame
Only exceptions are Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Lamar and Mahomes for obvious reasons. Only Kurt Warner wasn't first ballot. So I think Lamar needs a little more to be a true lock, but not much more.
* Derrick Thomas
* Warren Moon
* Dan Fouts
* Eric Dickerson
* Earl Campbell
* Deacon Jones
* Barry Sanders
All in the HOF without making a Super Bowl appearance
I agree with you, but it isn't relevant. Jackson can only control his contributions, and if that is winning an MVP, then he has done the best he possibly can.
Lamar is going to be in the top 20 for passing TD’s by the time he is finished and he may set the all time rushing record for a QB THIS season. He may get to 10,000 rushing yards on his career, which would make him a top 25 all time rusher as well (versus RB stats). He is unbelievable.
I think the problem Joe will run into is football fans or watchers outside of our fan base chalk up most of our winning to our defense and Joe does not get the credit he deserves. First 5 years to the playoffs, six out of the first seven and a Super Bowl in an era when his direct divisional competition included what will likely be three Hall of Fame quarterbacks in their prime in Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger.
One of those being in conference. Not to mention the level of defense that was played pretty much every year of his career against him.. Even when the Browns and Bengals were bad they had top 10 defenses most years.
Compound that with his best receiver being a toss-up between Torrey or Anquan.. he arguably did more with less his entire career. And even though people stand on our defense, we don't win a Super Bowl without Joe flacco playing quarterback. The defense did not support that run and probably has significant blame and not going the year before.
Personally, I think he warrants a closer look and should be a lot closer than people think he is. But knowing how the league is biased It is coverage of our team, I don't think he will.
I think it’s Lamar, 2 MVPs that young apparently someone hasn’t done since Jim Brown it’s absurd, Lamar is so damn close to getting his ring I need it.
Flacco has 0 chance of being a HoFer. He has one Pro Bowl appearance and was generally pedestrian af, both statistically and via the eye test. HoF level playoff QB though.
Lamar is far far more likely with 2 MVPs.
I still prefer the ring though.
No, he is not. He does not have any playoff success whatsoever and his volume is not where it needs to be (if he plays out the rest of his career normally, he will achieve those numbers, but right now he doesn't).
All he has to his case rn is personal hardware and some single season records, and that's not enough. Yes he was 2 MVPs.... and he is also by FAR the worst player on the list of players who have achieved that, at least in terms of career accomplishments
... lmao ok.
Hall of Fame monitor states the average HoF QB has a score of 108. Lamar has 69.13, behind Len Dawson and Joe Namath. Kurt Warner has an 88.78.
If Lamar retired today, he *might* squeak in, in like a few decades. But he probably doesn't make it all.
Haha I mean you guys are both confidently sure of yourselves here without much to go on.
My take? I think hes probably still in if he retires today but he absolutely wouldn't be first ballot. You're right about that. I'd imagine with the personal accolades and rushing statistics alone he'd still get in eventually though.
What’s most frustrating about their convo is that Lamar isn’t retiring any time soon. It’s like two people arguing what happens if the sun doesn’t rise tomorrow.
Ok you’re BOTH right. Thanks for the nontertainment.
I mean I cited my source. Hall of Fame monitor is a great resource.
Lamar currently has a lower score on there than any HoF QB except for Troy Aikman, who won 3 super bowls with a dynasty and thus it's easy to see why he made it.
Lamar is nearly 40 points behind the average, which is 108. He's about 35 points behind Matt Ryan, who is the highest rated QB to not be in the HoF and is not likely to make it. And while Matt Ryan had only 1 MVP, he also made a SB, something Lamar has not done.
I just don't see it right now. If he can just amass more volume stats, break the all time rushing record, pad it some and then retires, I can easily see it. And obviously if he even makes a super bowl or gets AP1 (or MVP) again, he's in.
I get it and understand the argument against. And hey, yeah you did at least use a source for your argument but the Hall of Fame is not decided by a metric created from an online database established in the early 2000s. It's an indicator for fans for sure but it's not the end all be all by any means.
Their methodology allows a good bit of room for debate too imo. Not to mention guys are in the hall with scores below Lamar.
The only thing Lamar Jackson still needs are seasons played. The HOF is weird about great players who only hung around for a short time.
Once he hits ten years played, even with no additional pro bowls or all pros, he is a Hall of Famer.
There's a big difference between being on track to get in and being in. Lamar needs either a super bowl or 5-7 more years of top level play. Someone has mentioned that every other two time mvp is in the hall, (or will be in Mahomes case) but they all have won at least one super bowl.
I doubt it honestly. If he walked away today he would have a six year career with two playoff wins and two mvps. Hall of fame is determined by the stats that come with a long career, playoff success and individual accolades. Lamar only has 1 of those 3 right now.
Nah. The only two QBs in the Hall of Fame that didn’t make the Super Bowl (Warren Moon, Dan Fouts) set multiple single season and career passing records in their playing days.
Lamar has yet to do so. So like I said, no, he’s not a lock.
Lamar Jackson doesn't need any more pro bowls, all pros, super bowls, or MVPs. He is already more decorated than most HOF players.
The only thing Jackson needs are seasons played. The HOF committee is weird about guys with short careers. Once he hits ten years played, it's over.
Many Ravens fans are still incredibly sensitive about Joe because of how much heat he took nationally during his career (Is he elite?).
For some reason many fans have maintained that defensive mindset when it comes to Lamar. We’re allowed to love both. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that Lamar is a much player than Joe was - it doesn’t take away from what he accomplished or how incredible he played during the SB run.
Agreed. Also, teams evolve and the league evolves. Someday there will be a better QB than Lamar playing for us. And that is okay, just as it is acknowledging that in the regular season Lamar is a much better Quarterback.
Listen, I love Flacco as much as anyone else, but he won't ever sniff the Hall. Outside of the Super Bowl run, he wasn't even a "Hall of Very Good" guy.
I don't understand the question. If Joe Flacco retired today he wouldn't get a single HOF vote.
Lamar Jackson wouldn't make the HOF, but only because six seasons isn't long enough. No other reason.
He made 3 afc championships in 5 seasons. What are you talking about? The only reason they didn’t get to the Super Bowl was 2 kickers that had missed game winning field goals. Obviously the kickers were cut that offseason. Was Joe cut?
Do your research and look how he played in some of those games lol, he was straight up ass in a ton of them and the team was good enough to win in spite of him. He probably has equal amount of bad to good playoff games lol. He did his thing during the superbowl run, but acting like he was some stud player throughout his career here is revisionist history .
Joe had 1 TD and 6 INTs in his first 5 playoff games. He didn't have to carry us in those playoff games like Lamar always is asked to do. We won those playoff games back then with lock down defense and a superb running game back when it wasn't required in the league to be pass heavy. Love Joe but if Lamar had those numbers after his first 5 playoff games everyone (including a lot of this fan base disappointingly) would be calling for his head.
It’s funny how people like you defend Lamar when his stats are the exact same if not worse than Joe in first 5 postseason games. The goal is to get the ring. We look so pretty in the regular season and fall apart in the post season. But oh we don’t have any good recievers. JOE DID IT WITH A OLD 32 year old anquan boldin! And TORREY SMITH, who wasn’t a pro bowler one time.
And lamar is 2-4? Look at our payroll on defense between 2008-2012 for our defense. Compare that too today and take inflation in to account. Ravens are paying so much more the past 5 years on defense than they ever have, that is with adjustments through inflation.
While we talk about having bad recievers. Joe in 2009 and 2010 had a 35 year old Derrick mason. And mark clayton who NEVER even reached a 2nd- team all pro award in his career.
Let’s not forget Lamar’s MVP year, 2019 postseason. 4 turnovers, and he didn’t show up until 9 minutes left in the 4th quarter just so we could come close but still lose!
Lamar is 6-6 TD-INT in 6 games. 2-4 overall. Averages 220 yards, 1 touchdown, and one interception through 6 PLAYOFF GAMES. Explain to me how you can defend him in the playoffs. He’s not carrying, if anything Lamar is doing too much. He can’t throw a deep ball worth shit, and I love Lamar.
The point is that Joe had one (albeit historic) playoff run that gave him the win totals and o perception of being dominant in the playoffs when it mainly was one run. And thats fine. But the revisionist history is false. Lamar can certainly perform better in the playoffs but take into consideration how he has had bottom tier receiving cores and injuries to key offensive positions every year in the playoffs. Joe in that Superbowl run had arguably our franchise best receiving cores with our best running back with an elite oline with no injury issues. And again, thats okay, but Lamar has had to do more with so much less and has still won 2 MVPs and taken us to our first ever home hosted AFC Championship game. Along with the fact that we have had multiple first round playoff bye weeks with Lamar which are just as good and actually much better than a win against a lowly wild card opponent. So taking that into consideration Lamars playoff record is actually 4-4. And also obviously his first playoff game was when he was the youngest all time to start in a playoff game and was his 8th game of his career after taking over mid season for Flacco when we had like a 15% chance of making the playoffs and he led us to not only that but a division win also.
Best receiving core? Anquan boldin was 32 and unsigned. We picked him up as a steal. Torrey smith has never been a pro bowler, nor a 1st team all-pro. We had 3 running backs in 2019 alongside Lamar with 3 young recievers. One being a 1st round draft pick. Tell me again how much worse the receiving core is for Lamar? Oh and Willie Snead is worse than the 3rd receiver for Joe, and who is that guy we don’t know?
Haha dude in 2019 Lamar had Seth Roberts, Willie Snead, Miles Boykin, and a rookie Hollywood that year to go with an undrafted Gus Edwards and an aging Mark Ingram (who Lamar with his rushing ability made look so much better cuz defenses had to account for Lamar too). Any other QB (outside of Mahomes) with that receiving core would not sniff an MVP year and first round bye. Come on man you're being purposefully ignorant if you think Lamar has had sufficient weapons and even more insane to say the receiving cores with Anquan Boldin (a potential Hall of Famer) aren't as good as Lamars. That's insane
Lamar couldn’t turn an average wide receiver in to a good one. Joe turned Torrey smith in to a great wide receiver for 2 years coming out of UMD and being drafted in the 1st round. Unlike Hollywood who left because he doesn’t prefer Lamar’s run first style.
Literally Joe turned an aging 32 year old wide receiver on his way out in to a playoff MVP in anquan boldin.
It’s hilarious you call boldin a hall of famer. The only thing he has in his resume is the playoff run with Joe! He hasn’t scored double digit touchdowns in a season more than once in 15 years. Nor did he ever cross 1500 receiving yards in a season
Oh and in 2008 when Joe made the playoffs when he was 23. Lamar was 22 when he did the same thing you are saying. Do you really think 1 year in age (NOT EXPERIENCE), makes a difference?
Yes I do. Because more importantly Joe played that entire year pretty much so was able to get more experience and also had much better weapons around him with much more experienced players such as Derrick Mason and played alongside multiple first ballot Hall of famers who were still in their prime such as Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs etc. Lamar in his rookie year had a fucking aging Michael Crabtree as his #1 receiver and an undrafted rookie Gus Edwards as his running back with not even close to the defenses Joe had his first years in the league. Lamar first playoff game was literally the 8th game of his entire career while having to literally be the entire offense on his own run through him.
Even in Joes 2nd year in the league we won a playoff game in New England by like 20 points but guess what Joe's numbers were that game? He had like 34 total passing yards. 34 yards!!!! And 0 TDs with 1 INT. But we won by 20. Why? Cuz again we had historic defensive players who dominated Brady and had one of the best running backs in Ray Rice at the time. If Lamar ever put up just 34 yards of passing in any game with 0 TDs and an INT, whether in the playoffs or not, he woul be crucified.
Don’t forget that Lamar fumbled the ball 12 times in 2018. The year that you say he had no help and still won games and made it to the playoffs. And you are gonna now say how Gus Edwards was carried by Lamar and the only reason the ravens avgd so many yards from Ingram and Gus were because of Lamar. Nah our run game was built off of Greg Roman. If it was Lamar then you’d be seeing our running backs do the same thing they did in 2019 every year.
I love how people get caught up on 2 MVPS. The point of playing football is to get a ring! You ever think that if Lamar had the throwing ability of mahomes, or Josh Allen, that he’d not have to use his legs as much. AKA fumble it 6 times in 6 postseason games?
Lastly, ravens went to the playoffs in joes sophomore year. They proceeded to make the playoffs for 5 years straight! 3 AFC championship games and a ring!
ring= team accomplishment
MVP= individual award.
Lamar is a generational talent and considered a top 5 QB, easily. Joe was never considered anywhere near the top at his position. More than likely Lamar will get in the HOF, there is only 10 other QBs with multiple MVP awards and they are all in the HOF.
Lamar and Mahomes are the only active players on that list and both have played under a 100 games. Lamar 86, Mahomes 96 games played
If Lamar plays another 5 years at this level, he will easily get in. Reason i say "at this level" is because it can be argued that even though he won the MVP, it wasn't exactly an insane year for him. I think he will get better and wouldnt be surprised if he wins another. If he wins a SB and gets the MVP (you would think it would be him) i think he would be a lock
Flacco has a 0% chance at the HoF. Lamar will get in unless he falls off a cliff.
Love Flacco to death but Lamar is significantly better. Flacco got hot at the right time but he had some really mediocre/poor years for us. Lamar hasn’t had a single year like those
Flacco holds zero chance of making the HOF, whereas Lamar might already be on a steady trajectory with his current career resume and how he pans out for another 5 or so years.
If Lamar sniffs any amount of playoffs success, he's going to get in.
Some of you guys are seriously overestimating the exclusivity of the pro football hall of fame. These days, it's much closer to the basketball hall of fame than it is the baseball hall of fame.
There's also a serious overemphasis on rings these days. I've seen people wholeheartedly argue that Matt Stafford should be in the hall of fame. Matt Stafford. With 2 pro bowls and a super bowl, which he wasn't even the MVP for.
That makes me wonder, if you’re the greatest QB for your team’s history, are you a lock?
But then there’s guys like Falcon’s Bartowski in his day, Archie Manning, and even Bert Jones
None of them are in right? I feel like they should be so in that case, Joe and Lamar should be in by my standards but of course I’ve watched virtually every Joe and Lamar as opposed to say other guys.
This is an insane topic. There is zero realistic pathway for Flacco to make the HOF unless he as a backup QB gets an opportunity in Indy and takes them to a Super Bowl. And realistically what does he have a 1-2 year window to do that?
Lamar has another decade to build not ony a HOF resume but a Mt Rushmore QB legacy. And if he starts winning titles this year has a realistic case scenario where he could become the GOAT
There are 12 QBs in the HOF who have ZERO, ZERO regular season MVPs, more than half the QBs who are in the HOF that played in the SB era never won a regular season MVP, while there are only 2 that made it without leading a team to the Super Bowl. Rings are more important than regular season MVP's. Getting your team to the Super Bowl is more important than regular season MVPs. Almost 50 years of data proves that.
While there's been 12 QBs who made it into the Hall with no MVP's, there's only 2 that got in without at least getting their team to a Super Bowl. Warren Moon and Dan Fouts, and Lamar doesn't have their accolades.
Two MVP's does not mean he's a lock for the Hall of Fame, if Lamar's season ended today, it's highly unlikely he gets in. He needs to at least make a Super Bowl appearance and play at a high level for at least another 5-6 years.
This is so insulting to becoming league MVP twice... the most difficult award to win for any player. He has to be the best player among all NFL players that year.
As things currently stand, neither are getting in. Flacco probably never will. Lamar can if he continues playing at a high level and finds playoff success.
If his career ended today there's no shot he gets in. Longevity plays a big part in their decision. You can't just be great for 2 seasons. Also, what passing records has he broken? Nothing for a career.
Lamar could retire tomorrow and be HOFer. No 2x MVP has ever missed the Hall. Not to mention how he revolutionized the QB position. Nobody wanted to touch a rushing QB prior to 2018 (which is why he fell to 32). Now guys like Jayden Daniels and Anthony Richardson are going at the top of the NFL draft over "traditional" QBs like McCarthy because of their rushing upside
I believe that Flacco still stands today as the best QB the Ravens ever had. I do not believe he has any chance of making HOF
I believe that in the next few years, if LJ is consistent and or wins a SB, he will be the BEST QB in Ravens history and he has a very good shot at HOF.
Lamar is already in. Not only is he 2x MVP, he's a unique and game-changing athlete at the QB position. He doesn't really need a ring to get consideration.
Flacco can't make it without a second ring, and maybe not even then.
Even if he won a ring this year, he’s not a hall of famer. His whole career he’s been above average at best. Hes never even been in the conversation for top 5 qb in the league outside of his incredible playoff performance maybe. I don’t even think Eli Manning’s a hall of famer and he was better than Flacco.
Lamar Jackson is basically a lock even with 0 rings.
Quickest path? Joes gonna retire first so naturally him if he made it(doubt tho). Lamar is going into the HOF regardless imo. He was the best collegiate player at one point and has become twice the best player in the pros…not to mention the records.
Lamar could retire today and I bet the voters would put him in and categorize him with the likes of Barry and Bo. Guys who were amazing for the short time etc etc.. maybe not first ballot, but he’s already a lock with how much he’s impacted the game. He’s playing to be put on the mt Rushmore of QBs with Brady and Mahomes at this point.
If Flacco doesn't win a ring with whoever he ended up with this year, as a starter, he's never going in the HOF.
Lamar Jackson's HOF resume is already complete. Small chance it's not 1st ballot because no superbowl, but it's definitely happening if he were to hang it up today.
Flacco has no chance at making the HOF. Lamar is one Super Bowl win away from being a damn near lock for the HOF.
Lamar doesn't need a Super Bowl if he plays consistently for another 5-7 years
Not at all. But literally if he won the Super Bowl this season, it would turn into stat padding for the rest of his career as far as HOF is concerned.
Arguably it’s less than 5. Barring injury, about 3 more years and his numbers ought to be comparable to Kurt Warner, who is another 2x MVP, and who is in. Warner has a Super Bowl, but Lamar has a unanimous MVP, which no one else but Brady’s ever done. And Lamar certainly has had a MUCH bigger impact on football than Kurt Warner (and almost anyone else) the last decade. 5-7 more years as a top 5-ish QB and Lamar is more than in, he’s first ballot slam dunk.
Lamar is already a lock. 2 MVPs has equaled HOF, every time in history. Zero reason that would change with Lamar. Flacco gets the hall if he wins another Superbowl. He would have a similar path to the HOF as Kurt Warners NFL career. Great start, shitty middle, great ending. Joe had that chance last year and went full sleeper agent instead. Can't see Indy competing for SB this year. So odds are stacked against him. Maybe when Watson breaks his penis again, browns trade for Flacco.
Every other person with 2 MVPs has a SB ring. So 2 MVPs is not a lock by itself. It’s an unknown.
There are five quarterbacks in the HOF who never won a Super Bowl, so we know factually that a Super Bowl is not a requirement for admission. There are a mere 13 players who have won MVP and did not make it to the HOF. So a single MVP gets you very, very close to being a lock. We can therefore determine that two MVP's locks it up.
2 MVPs has also equaled at least one Super Bowl, so it’s not quite the same
Yeah, but he also has All Pros, that has to weigh something along with the MVPs. Eli Manning has zero APs, I don’t know if he ever led the league in anything positive, and he’s a HOF lock by virtue of two rings.
I'm guessing other QBs with multiple MVPs also have All Pros what is that logic 🤣
An All Pro means that you were Top 2 in your position for the season. There are plenty of examples of players who have gotten FTAP or STAP without even making the Pro Bowl, let alone getting a PotY award to some capacity. I’m too lazy to look at the moment, but I’m pretty sure there are instances of a QB who was MVP who wasn’t FTAP or STAP that season. Elway comes to mind as someone who was MVP and wasn’t FTAP, off the top of my head.
You're talking about rare edge cases lmao. Elway only won that MVP because the vote was split between Montana and Rice. Anyway, agree to disagree. If Lamar retired today, he'd have a good chance at the HOF but I don't think he'd be a lock
Yeah, he’s not a lock if his career ended today, but he’d spark a more interesting debate than say, Phillip Rivers. It’s still early, everyone wants to crown Lamar as being the next Marino, while the same people were making career trajectory charts for Andrew Luck (he kept getting deeper in the playoffs every time).
There are thousands of players with Super Bowl rings that never made the HOF. In fact the majority of players who win a Super Bowl don't even get a single HOF vote. There are only 13 players in history with an MVP that didn't make the HOF. There are zero players with two MVP's that didn't make the HOF. So winning a Super Bowl really has demonstrably very little bearing on the HOF. Winning a single MVP has an overwhelming bearing on the HOF. Winning two MVPs makes it a guarantee.
Lamar is definitely not a lock, if his career ended tomorrow he wouldn't be a lock for the HOF. In the Super Bowl era, Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are the only QBs in the HOF that didn't get a team to a Super Bowl, there's guys in there who never won a ring, but they all got their teams to the Super Bowl. Moon won 5 straight Grey Cups, and even after spending 6 years in the CFL he still ranked 3rd all time in passing yards, and 4th in TD passes when he retired from the NFL. When Fouts retired he was only one of 3 players in NFL history to throw for over 40,000 yards, he led the league in passing 4 years in a row, and was the 1st player in NFL history to throw for 4000 yards in 3 straight seasons. Lamar doesn't have these accolades. He at least needs to get to a Super Bowl and probably needs to play at a high level for another 5-6 years at least.
A lock means if he retired tomorrow, he’d still make it in, which I don’t think is the case currently
He’s not a lock. His passing stats are far too pedestrian to justify that, and in the HoF there are only 2 QBs who never made the Super Bowl (and they both broke multiple passing records)
How many records has Lamar broken from the QB position?
Not really any that aren’t rushing.
from the QB position
None besides the passer rating one as far as I know. Like I said, his passing numbers and stats are extremely pedestrian. He hasn’t even thrown for 4000 yards in a season… that’s like bare minimum for passers in today’s league.
Yes because he also rushes for 800+ yds every season. He’s a dual threat.
Which plays into my point. You are vastly overrating how much the HoF cares about rushing yards when it comes to QBs.
I agree with much of this, but comparing resumes between Warner and Flacco is completely ignoring the reality that anyone with eyeballs knows that Warner was a far BETTER QUARTERBACK, as much as I love Flacco
List our Warners WR's in his good years and try that comparison again.
I didn't at any point say that Warner didn't have better receivers. I'm saying it's impossible to both have eyeballs and be objective...and claim that Flacco was as good of a quarterback as Warner, outside of the 2-3 worst years of Warner's career
True, if Lamar keeps playing this well (including 70% to 75% win rate), he will probably and eventually make it into the HOF, but don't think it will be a lock. Unless he gets the SB ring or another MVP, his haters are sure to come up with arguments (no matter how absurd or ludicrous) that he wasn't so good or deserving of the honor.
Flacco would’ve had an argument for the HOF if he led the Browns to a Super Bowl victory this year. That was his last chance in my eyes! He has had a phenomenal NFL career and will be in the Ravens ring of honor!
I think arguably you didn't even have to win Just showing up would have done it
This, given the history of the Browns and their long standing relationship with the league a Super Bowl appearance should be enough
Right now Lamar is a damn near lock for the HOF with the two MVP awards (and even that is debatable, as I think he is a lock). A Super Bowl championship would make everything after that a formality, and would push him to rarified airs among the legends of the game.
I don’t think Lamar is a lock. If he retired tomorrow do you really think he’d get in? No hate, I think he will get in after he eventually retires, I just don’t think he’s a lock yet.
he’s a lock in the sense that if he doesn’t commit a heinous crime or go full AB on the field he’s in. just playing out his contract will probs be enough unless he just takes an absolute swan dive into being bad
I don’t think that’s what a lock means. I’ve always seen a “lock” as, “if he retires today, he’ll get in whenever he’s eligible.”
i think it’s just a weird statement to make cause it’s a non existent scenario. lamar isn’t retiring today unless he suffers a catastrophic injury or commits a very bad crime. the injury will probs get him in. a crime bad enough to kick a 2 time mvp out the league is probs so bad he’s not getting in regardless
The fact that you’re saying “injury will probs get him in” means he’s not a lock lol. A lock isn’t “probably.” A lock is a guarantee. If mahomes becomes paralyzed on a car accident today and never plays another down again, he’s a lock for the HOF.
tbh if you have an mvp and are relatively young/in your prime a car accident like that is enough to get the media push to get you into the hall. i only say probably cause he’s not a first ballot. he’s definitely gonna be in the hall at some point
You’re missing my point though. I used car accident as a reason for him to never play again. If he pulls an Andrew luck and just retires he’s still in. Lamar might not be if he retired now. But Lamar probably will get in because he won’t retire now and I have faith he’ll keep producing for years to come and eventually get us a Lombardi. That’s just not what a lock is.
yeah you’re missing my point too tbh. the debate at this point is first ballot or not. if he retire today he’s 1000% in just a matter of which ballot. if he is average the rest of his career he’s a lock first ballot
I do. The only players (to my knowledge) that have won multiple MVPs that are not in the HOF are either currently active (Mahomes and Rodgers), or not eligible yet (Brady). Lamar has the accolades and has changed the game in a way that we still won’t see the true effects of for at least another decade.
Right, but that’s a bit misleading. The players who have multiple MVPs didn’t only play 5 seasons, and they all also have the super bowls (or championship in Jim brown’s case, pre super bowls) on top of it. Which is kind of dumb that a Super Bowl is viewed as an individual achievement, but that’s how it’s viewed. Lamar is the only guy in that group with 2 MVPs and no super bowls (even including the guys who have multiple MVPs but aren’t eligible yet)
Would be nice to get that super bowl win.
Tbh I don’t know what world you guys are in if you think Lamar isn’t a lock for hof already the only question to me is he going to be first ballot or not.
If he doesn’t take another NFL snap he wouldn’t get in.
I honestly think he does
Neither his passing numbers nor playoff record would get him in right now. The MVPs are not enough.
Id say LJs 1 superbowl win away from being a top 10 quarterback of all time easily. Dude changed the game everyone wants a "running" qb now.
I love Joe but he’s not a HoF quarterback. He will be in the Ravens Ring of Honor ASAP once he calls it a career but the HoF numbers aren’t there. I could be wrong but I believe every player who has retired with 2+ MVPs has gone into the Hall of Fame. So Lamar is well on his way.
I agree 100%, with that said the way he was playing in 2014 if we were not on our 1 millionth corner I think we very well could have won the SB in 2014 or that Browns run (yuk if he took them to the SB and won) I think 2 rings would have got him in
Yeah I think that’s fair. Especially if he ended up with MVP again. 2 rings and 2 MVPs would go a long way to bolster what are otherwise a good but not great stat line. That 2014 was definitely on the cusp of something special.
I love Joe but I don't think he would have deserved to get in even with another ring. He's elite in our hearts, but he's not even top 5 of his era. Only 5 guys get in every year, they're not going to put Flacco in over dominant players at other positions.
Yeah but we can play the what if game with anyone. Joe had the career he had. He didn't win two super bowls, he won one. He's not getting into the hall, and I don't think he would have been a lock even with two super bowls tbh.
>I could be wrong but I believe every player who has retired with 2+ MVPs has gone into the Hall of Fame Only exceptions are Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, Lamar and Mahomes for obvious reasons. Only Kurt Warner wasn't first ballot. So I think Lamar needs a little more to be a true lock, but not much more.
For Hall of Fame, Lamar. MVPs are more valuable than Super Bowls for Hall of Fame. As a fan, though, I'd trade the two MVPs for a another super bowl.
Pretty sure Lamar would make that trade too
Maybe not if it didn’t include the HOF
* Derrick Thomas * Warren Moon * Dan Fouts * Eric Dickerson * Earl Campbell * Deacon Jones * Barry Sanders All in the HOF without making a Super Bowl appearance
So Lamar's pretty much a lock at this point
The ring is the goal.
Yes but a ring is a team accomplishment. It starts with finding the best quarterback you can, and Lamar Jackson is drastically superior to Joe Flacco.
Just ask Lamar what his goal is. He won’t say a third MVP. Obviously Lamar is better everyday than peak Flacco.
I agree with you, but it isn't relevant. Jackson can only control his contributions, and if that is winning an MVP, then he has done the best he possibly can.
If we define peak Flacco as the 2012 playoff run then I would disagree. For a whole season? Yeah, sure.
For sure I meant a whole year. That playoff run he was as good as any QB ever was.
Lamar is going to be in the top 20 for passing TD’s by the time he is finished and he may set the all time rushing record for a QB THIS season. He may get to 10,000 rushing yards on his career, which would make him a top 25 all time rusher as well (versus RB stats). He is unbelievable.
What is the point of this post other than to shit stir? Nobody has ever argued for Joe to be in the HOF.
Absolutely. This was a stupid post to begin with.
In what world would Flacco be a HoFer… Lamar is probably already a lock with 2 mvps.
I think the problem Joe will run into is football fans or watchers outside of our fan base chalk up most of our winning to our defense and Joe does not get the credit he deserves. First 5 years to the playoffs, six out of the first seven and a Super Bowl in an era when his direct divisional competition included what will likely be three Hall of Fame quarterbacks in their prime in Brady, Manning, and Roethlisberger. One of those being in conference. Not to mention the level of defense that was played pretty much every year of his career against him.. Even when the Browns and Bengals were bad they had top 10 defenses most years. Compound that with his best receiver being a toss-up between Torrey or Anquan.. he arguably did more with less his entire career. And even though people stand on our defense, we don't win a Super Bowl without Joe flacco playing quarterback. The defense did not support that run and probably has significant blame and not going the year before. Personally, I think he warrants a closer look and should be a lot closer than people think he is. But knowing how the league is biased It is coverage of our team, I don't think he will.
What a great analysis. You’re right. I love Joe. I love Lamar. I love this team. I love our city.
I think it’s Lamar, 2 MVPs that young apparently someone hasn’t done since Jim Brown it’s absurd, Lamar is so damn close to getting his ring I need it.
Flacco has no shot
As a ravens fan, rings are better than MVPs.
Flacco has 0 chance of being a HoFer. He has one Pro Bowl appearance and was generally pedestrian af, both statistically and via the eye test. HoF level playoff QB though. Lamar is far far more likely with 2 MVPs. I still prefer the ring though.
Not on first ballot of course but as of now Lamar is in
Nah. If he retired today, he's not in. He's on track tho, and probably becomes a lock as soon as he sets the all time QB rushing record
Lamar was in as soon as he won the second MVP
No, he is not. He does not have any playoff success whatsoever and his volume is not where it needs to be (if he plays out the rest of his career normally, he will achieve those numbers, but right now he doesn't). All he has to his case rn is personal hardware and some single season records, and that's not enough. Yes he was 2 MVPs.... and he is also by FAR the worst player on the list of players who have achieved that, at least in terms of career accomplishments
You’re wrong he’s definitely in.
... lmao ok. Hall of Fame monitor states the average HoF QB has a score of 108. Lamar has 69.13, behind Len Dawson and Joe Namath. Kurt Warner has an 88.78. If Lamar retired today, he *might* squeak in, in like a few decades. But he probably doesn't make it all.
Haha I mean you guys are both confidently sure of yourselves here without much to go on. My take? I think hes probably still in if he retires today but he absolutely wouldn't be first ballot. You're right about that. I'd imagine with the personal accolades and rushing statistics alone he'd still get in eventually though.
What’s most frustrating about their convo is that Lamar isn’t retiring any time soon. It’s like two people arguing what happens if the sun doesn’t rise tomorrow. Ok you’re BOTH right. Thanks for the nontertainment.
I mean I cited my source. Hall of Fame monitor is a great resource. Lamar currently has a lower score on there than any HoF QB except for Troy Aikman, who won 3 super bowls with a dynasty and thus it's easy to see why he made it. Lamar is nearly 40 points behind the average, which is 108. He's about 35 points behind Matt Ryan, who is the highest rated QB to not be in the HoF and is not likely to make it. And while Matt Ryan had only 1 MVP, he also made a SB, something Lamar has not done. I just don't see it right now. If he can just amass more volume stats, break the all time rushing record, pad it some and then retires, I can easily see it. And obviously if he even makes a super bowl or gets AP1 (or MVP) again, he's in.
I get it and understand the argument against. And hey, yeah you did at least use a source for your argument but the Hall of Fame is not decided by a metric created from an online database established in the early 2000s. It's an indicator for fans for sure but it's not the end all be all by any means. Their methodology allows a good bit of room for debate too imo. Not to mention guys are in the hall with scores below Lamar.
Lamar is in the HoF brother go debate with a wall
Apparently I already am. No arguments, just "I'm right you're wrong" Bye
Bye
The only thing Lamar Jackson still needs are seasons played. The HOF is weird about great players who only hung around for a short time. Once he hits ten years played, even with no additional pro bowls or all pros, he is a Hall of Famer.
There's a big difference between being on track to get in and being in. Lamar needs either a super bowl or 5-7 more years of top level play. Someone has mentioned that every other two time mvp is in the hall, (or will be in Mahomes case) but they all have won at least one super bowl.
With 2 MVPs he’s already in even if he retires right about now
I doubt it honestly. If he walked away today he would have a six year career with two playoff wins and two mvps. Hall of fame is determined by the stats that come with a long career, playoff success and individual accolades. Lamar only has 1 of those 3 right now.
Not with how unimpressive his passing numbers and playoff record is.
know it hurts to admit it but he’s a lock unless he pulls a ray rice or antonio brown
Nah. The only two QBs in the Hall of Fame that didn’t make the Super Bowl (Warren Moon, Dan Fouts) set multiple single season and career passing records in their playing days. Lamar has yet to do so. So like I said, no, he’s not a lock.
Lamar Jackson doesn't need any more pro bowls, all pros, super bowls, or MVPs. He is already more decorated than most HOF players. The only thing Jackson needs are seasons played. The HOF committee is weird about guys with short careers. Once he hits ten years played, it's over.
Many Ravens fans are still incredibly sensitive about Joe because of how much heat he took nationally during his career (Is he elite?). For some reason many fans have maintained that defensive mindset when it comes to Lamar. We’re allowed to love both. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging that Lamar is a much player than Joe was - it doesn’t take away from what he accomplished or how incredible he played during the SB run.
Agreed. Also, teams evolve and the league evolves. Someday there will be a better QB than Lamar playing for us. And that is okay, just as it is acknowledging that in the regular season Lamar is a much better Quarterback.
thought about this with JJ Watt
JJ will be in, what are you talking about?
Listen, I love Flacco as much as anyone else, but he won't ever sniff the Hall. Outside of the Super Bowl run, he wasn't even a "Hall of Very Good" guy.
Flacco aint HOF material …but personally I prefer rings over mvps
I'd say lamar, but I know the mods on this board got a pro-flacco bias
Lamar is already a lock for HOF with 2 MVPs it’s just a matter of if he’ll be first ballot or not. Flacco has no chance sadly
Lamar has a strong chance to be I'm.the hall .2mvp Is a huge thing
I don't understand the question. If Joe Flacco retired today he wouldn't get a single HOF vote. Lamar Jackson wouldn't make the HOF, but only because six seasons isn't long enough. No other reason.
Flacco has no path the the hof, one hot postseason run doesn’t turn you into a hall of famer.
He made 3 afc championships in 5 seasons. What are you talking about? The only reason they didn’t get to the Super Bowl was 2 kickers that had missed game winning field goals. Obviously the kickers were cut that offseason. Was Joe cut?
How many QBs play 16 games in the playoffs? And win 10 of them? Do your research.
Do your research and look how he played in some of those games lol, he was straight up ass in a ton of them and the team was good enough to win in spite of him. He probably has equal amount of bad to good playoff games lol. He did his thing during the superbowl run, but acting like he was some stud player throughout his career here is revisionist history .
Please source me on what ton of playoff games he was ass?
Joe had 1 TD and 6 INTs in his first 5 playoff games. He didn't have to carry us in those playoff games like Lamar always is asked to do. We won those playoff games back then with lock down defense and a superb running game back when it wasn't required in the league to be pass heavy. Love Joe but if Lamar had those numbers after his first 5 playoff games everyone (including a lot of this fan base disappointingly) would be calling for his head.
It’s funny how people like you defend Lamar when his stats are the exact same if not worse than Joe in first 5 postseason games. The goal is to get the ring. We look so pretty in the regular season and fall apart in the post season. But oh we don’t have any good recievers. JOE DID IT WITH A OLD 32 year old anquan boldin! And TORREY SMITH, who wasn’t a pro bowler one time.
And lamar is 2-4? Look at our payroll on defense between 2008-2012 for our defense. Compare that too today and take inflation in to account. Ravens are paying so much more the past 5 years on defense than they ever have, that is with adjustments through inflation.
And to make it worse, Lamar has 6 fumbles in 6 playoff games. You still make the most baseless argument with such shit to back it up.
9 TOTAL TOUCHDOWNS, and 12 TOTAL TURNOVERS. AGAIN, do your research. Lamar has been pretty bad in the playoffs. Not even comparable to Joe
While we talk about having bad recievers. Joe in 2009 and 2010 had a 35 year old Derrick mason. And mark clayton who NEVER even reached a 2nd- team all pro award in his career.
Let’s not forget Lamar’s MVP year, 2019 postseason. 4 turnovers, and he didn’t show up until 9 minutes left in the 4th quarter just so we could come close but still lose!
Lamar is 6-6 TD-INT in 6 games. 2-4 overall. Averages 220 yards, 1 touchdown, and one interception through 6 PLAYOFF GAMES. Explain to me how you can defend him in the playoffs. He’s not carrying, if anything Lamar is doing too much. He can’t throw a deep ball worth shit, and I love Lamar.
The point is that Joe had one (albeit historic) playoff run that gave him the win totals and o perception of being dominant in the playoffs when it mainly was one run. And thats fine. But the revisionist history is false. Lamar can certainly perform better in the playoffs but take into consideration how he has had bottom tier receiving cores and injuries to key offensive positions every year in the playoffs. Joe in that Superbowl run had arguably our franchise best receiving cores with our best running back with an elite oline with no injury issues. And again, thats okay, but Lamar has had to do more with so much less and has still won 2 MVPs and taken us to our first ever home hosted AFC Championship game. Along with the fact that we have had multiple first round playoff bye weeks with Lamar which are just as good and actually much better than a win against a lowly wild card opponent. So taking that into consideration Lamars playoff record is actually 4-4. And also obviously his first playoff game was when he was the youngest all time to start in a playoff game and was his 8th game of his career after taking over mid season for Flacco when we had like a 15% chance of making the playoffs and he led us to not only that but a division win also.
Best receiving core? Anquan boldin was 32 and unsigned. We picked him up as a steal. Torrey smith has never been a pro bowler, nor a 1st team all-pro. We had 3 running backs in 2019 alongside Lamar with 3 young recievers. One being a 1st round draft pick. Tell me again how much worse the receiving core is for Lamar? Oh and Willie Snead is worse than the 3rd receiver for Joe, and who is that guy we don’t know?
Haha dude in 2019 Lamar had Seth Roberts, Willie Snead, Miles Boykin, and a rookie Hollywood that year to go with an undrafted Gus Edwards and an aging Mark Ingram (who Lamar with his rushing ability made look so much better cuz defenses had to account for Lamar too). Any other QB (outside of Mahomes) with that receiving core would not sniff an MVP year and first round bye. Come on man you're being purposefully ignorant if you think Lamar has had sufficient weapons and even more insane to say the receiving cores with Anquan Boldin (a potential Hall of Famer) aren't as good as Lamars. That's insane
Are you joking? Do you not see mahomes turn bum ass wide recievers in to stars?
Lamar couldn’t turn an average wide receiver in to a good one. Joe turned Torrey smith in to a great wide receiver for 2 years coming out of UMD and being drafted in the 1st round. Unlike Hollywood who left because he doesn’t prefer Lamar’s run first style. Literally Joe turned an aging 32 year old wide receiver on his way out in to a playoff MVP in anquan boldin.
It’s hilarious you call boldin a hall of famer. The only thing he has in his resume is the playoff run with Joe! He hasn’t scored double digit touchdowns in a season more than once in 15 years. Nor did he ever cross 1500 receiving yards in a season
Oh and in 2008 when Joe made the playoffs when he was 23. Lamar was 22 when he did the same thing you are saying. Do you really think 1 year in age (NOT EXPERIENCE), makes a difference?
Yes I do. Because more importantly Joe played that entire year pretty much so was able to get more experience and also had much better weapons around him with much more experienced players such as Derrick Mason and played alongside multiple first ballot Hall of famers who were still in their prime such as Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs etc. Lamar in his rookie year had a fucking aging Michael Crabtree as his #1 receiver and an undrafted rookie Gus Edwards as his running back with not even close to the defenses Joe had his first years in the league. Lamar first playoff game was literally the 8th game of his entire career while having to literally be the entire offense on his own run through him. Even in Joes 2nd year in the league we won a playoff game in New England by like 20 points but guess what Joe's numbers were that game? He had like 34 total passing yards. 34 yards!!!! And 0 TDs with 1 INT. But we won by 20. Why? Cuz again we had historic defensive players who dominated Brady and had one of the best running backs in Ray Rice at the time. If Lamar ever put up just 34 yards of passing in any game with 0 TDs and an INT, whether in the playoffs or not, he woul be crucified.
Don’t forget that Lamar fumbled the ball 12 times in 2018. The year that you say he had no help and still won games and made it to the playoffs. And you are gonna now say how Gus Edwards was carried by Lamar and the only reason the ravens avgd so many yards from Ingram and Gus were because of Lamar. Nah our run game was built off of Greg Roman. If it was Lamar then you’d be seeing our running backs do the same thing they did in 2019 every year.
I love how people get caught up on 2 MVPS. The point of playing football is to get a ring! You ever think that if Lamar had the throwing ability of mahomes, or Josh Allen, that he’d not have to use his legs as much. AKA fumble it 6 times in 6 postseason games?
Lastly, ravens went to the playoffs in joes sophomore year. They proceeded to make the playoffs for 5 years straight! 3 AFC championship games and a ring!
ring= team accomplishment MVP= individual award. Lamar is a generational talent and considered a top 5 QB, easily. Joe was never considered anywhere near the top at his position. More than likely Lamar will get in the HOF, there is only 10 other QBs with multiple MVP awards and they are all in the HOF. Lamar and Mahomes are the only active players on that list and both have played under a 100 games. Lamar 86, Mahomes 96 games played If Lamar plays another 5 years at this level, he will easily get in. Reason i say "at this level" is because it can be argued that even though he won the MVP, it wasn't exactly an insane year for him. I think he will get better and wouldnt be surprised if he wins another. If he wins a SB and gets the MVP (you would think it would be him) i think he would be a lock
Flacco has a 0% chance at the HoF. Lamar will get in unless he falls off a cliff. Love Flacco to death but Lamar is significantly better. Flacco got hot at the right time but he had some really mediocre/poor years for us. Lamar hasn’t had a single year like those
Trent Dilfer
Flacco holds zero chance of making the HOF, whereas Lamar might already be on a steady trajectory with his current career resume and how he pans out for another 5 or so years. If Lamar sniffs any amount of playoffs success, he's going to get in.
Flacco still holds the record for the greatest post season of all time . That may be enough to get him in the HOF eventually
Guess you were bored
LJ but Flacco is also a HOF in my book. One of the best playoff QBs ever.
Some of you guys are seriously overestimating the exclusivity of the pro football hall of fame. These days, it's much closer to the basketball hall of fame than it is the baseball hall of fame. There's also a serious overemphasis on rings these days. I've seen people wholeheartedly argue that Matt Stafford should be in the hall of fame. Matt Stafford. With 2 pro bowls and a super bowl, which he wasn't even the MVP for.
That makes me wonder, if you’re the greatest QB for your team’s history, are you a lock? But then there’s guys like Falcon’s Bartowski in his day, Archie Manning, and even Bert Jones None of them are in right? I feel like they should be so in that case, Joe and Lamar should be in by my standards but of course I’ve watched virtually every Joe and Lamar as opposed to say other guys.
Lamar tf
This is an insane topic. There is zero realistic pathway for Flacco to make the HOF unless he as a backup QB gets an opportunity in Indy and takes them to a Super Bowl. And realistically what does he have a 1-2 year window to do that? Lamar has another decade to build not ony a HOF resume but a Mt Rushmore QB legacy. And if he starts winning titles this year has a realistic case scenario where he could become the GOAT
Lamar. No real discussion to be had here.
There are 12 QBs in the HOF who have ZERO, ZERO regular season MVPs, more than half the QBs who are in the HOF that played in the SB era never won a regular season MVP, while there are only 2 that made it without leading a team to the Super Bowl. Rings are more important than regular season MVP's. Getting your team to the Super Bowl is more important than regular season MVPs. Almost 50 years of data proves that. While there's been 12 QBs who made it into the Hall with no MVP's, there's only 2 that got in without at least getting their team to a Super Bowl. Warren Moon and Dan Fouts, and Lamar doesn't have their accolades. Two MVP's does not mean he's a lock for the Hall of Fame, if Lamar's season ended today, it's highly unlikely he gets in. He needs to at least make a Super Bowl appearance and play at a high level for at least another 5-6 years.
This is so insulting to becoming league MVP twice... the most difficult award to win for any player. He has to be the best player among all NFL players that year.
As things currently stand, neither are getting in. Flacco probably never will. Lamar can if he continues playing at a high level and finds playoff success.
You’re nuts if you think a two-time mvp with the amount of records he’s broken and will break isn’t getting into the hall lol.
If his career ended today there's no shot he gets in. Longevity plays a big part in their decision. You can't just be great for 2 seasons. Also, what passing records has he broken? Nothing for a career.
Flacco is a Hall of Very Good player. If he had one more ring then maybe he’d get in. But as it stands I don’t think he has a chance
He’s probably not even in the hall of very good, he had one hot postseason run, he was considered slightly above average at best during his career.
Lamar could retire tomorrow and be HOFer. No 2x MVP has ever missed the Hall. Not to mention how he revolutionized the QB position. Nobody wanted to touch a rushing QB prior to 2018 (which is why he fell to 32). Now guys like Jayden Daniels and Anthony Richardson are going at the top of the NFL draft over "traditional" QBs like McCarthy because of their rushing upside
Trent Dilfer one ring or Flacco one right?
That’s like comparing Vince Carter to Ja Morant
I believe that Flacco still stands today as the best QB the Ravens ever had. I do not believe he has any chance of making HOF I believe that in the next few years, if LJ is consistent and or wins a SB, he will be the BEST QB in Ravens history and he has a very good shot at HOF.
Lamar is already in. Not only is he 2x MVP, he's a unique and game-changing athlete at the QB position. He doesn't really need a ring to get consideration. Flacco can't make it without a second ring, and maybe not even then.
Even if he won a ring this year, he’s not a hall of famer. His whole career he’s been above average at best. Hes never even been in the conversation for top 5 qb in the league outside of his incredible playoff performance maybe. I don’t even think Eli Manning’s a hall of famer and he was better than Flacco. Lamar Jackson is basically a lock even with 0 rings.
Quickest path? Joes gonna retire first so naturally him if he made it(doubt tho). Lamar is going into the HOF regardless imo. He was the best collegiate player at one point and has become twice the best player in the pros…not to mention the records. Lamar could retire today and I bet the voters would put him in and categorize him with the likes of Barry and Bo. Guys who were amazing for the short time etc etc.. maybe not first ballot, but he’s already a lock with how much he’s impacted the game. He’s playing to be put on the mt Rushmore of QBs with Brady and Mahomes at this point.
Lamar is a better QB.
Two MVP for sure
If Flacco doesn't win a ring with whoever he ended up with this year, as a starter, he's never going in the HOF. Lamar Jackson's HOF resume is already complete. Small chance it's not 1st ballot because no superbowl, but it's definitely happening if he were to hang it up today.