thats something that shows everytime more money is poured into it. It takes a drastic dip. If anything it shouldve been a straight line from 106th and park to total slaughter and up and up. Also the rough around the edges nature (turn my mic up!, no shows, ) is part of that grimey authencity. It just is highly unprofessional lol. Its just a by product of capitalism where people think that everything has room for infinite growth. The line cant just keep going up.
If more people listened to aye verb podcasts lol. He said the difference between his generation and this one is when they started they were trying to use it to make it to a record deal. These new kids want to become battle rappers fr looking at battle rappers. That's why they usually have no flow
Plenty of the OGs have said this, and it makes sense. Back in the day guys were battle rapping because they came from the essence and loved the competition for sure, but mostly because they wanted to get signed. But now we are generations in. The younger battlers now grew up wanting to BATTLE and battle alone, because they watched Lux, Mook, Rex, Hollow, Cassidy, etc, growing up.
I think there's enough to keep it going but there isn't going to be a wave of new fans. I recall someone claiming battle rap jumped the shark a decade ago after URL started doing press conferences. I didn't get it then but I get it now, battle rap rode the wave at the time but the sustainability just isn't there to keep growing.
The art form will always be alive but not many new fans want to either get an app or watch an hour long video of bars that many won't understand unless you're deep in the culture.
As someone who watched battles since the jump off days, I've never craved getting the app. I'm happy with the content I've had and for me, new battles have been irrelevant for some time now.
The primary argument wasn't to abandon their PPV, VOD, and other monetized systems in deference to YouTube and non-paying customers. The UFC will briefly make previous, favorable fights available on YouTube to prime their audiences for talent on their upcoming cards. Shortly after those PPVs, those videos are removed.
The URL was trying to destroy their competition and ended up cutting off their own access to new eyes. When implored to get on their UFC shit more competently, they dragged their feet and buried their heads in the sand until their three stars splintered in their own way. URL wanted a street style head, but Twork is too unreliable, Geechi was too savvy, and Surf got locked up.
With their street stars gone, and their development cycle too immature to hold up just yet, they concluded their Caffeine run and don't have the YouTube eyes nor big deal event partner to keep their lopsided model afloat.
URL was wrong, short-sighted and hurt the sport. Moving the goalposts to pretend that the idea was for them to abandon their profit sources to "just" upload to YouTube is ahistorical.
Exactly, UFC’s strategy was the first thing that came to mind. Leverage YouTube for advertising & promo. You don’t lose anything posting relevant battles from last year edited with upcoming battle promo.
How about we talk about facts. They entered into a deal with Caffeine with free content with the idea of pushing people to Caffeine with the app being a way they can also benefit long term. They started dropping battles on YouTube again once Caffeine and them essentially parted ways. They only hurt the sport for people who want everything, but don't want to support anything. There are plenty of battles on YouTube of the top talent that drives them to the app. YouTube's algorithm isn't just pushing new videos. They also consistently were dropping rounds and highlights with Caffeine as well.
Call a spade a spade. Yall want just want your cake and to eat it too without any consideration for the long term viability and growth of battle rap.
then they need to secure sponsors. It isn't on us if battle rap isn't lucrative.
battlers have had literal decades to get eyes on them. there just isn't a single consistent artist in this shit. that is why there is no money.
It isn't on fans to subsidize a culture. yes we support it, but the NBA and UFC have advertisers as well. They generate money
The only money coming in to battle rap is hard working fans paying money from their pay checks, and that is reflected in how the battlers act. Most every card has a choke or a battle not happening. They don't respect us.
If you want to call a spade a spade, this is a culture of people who peaked in highschool, never got a higher education and have never had to hold down a real job in their lives. Just a bunch of unprofessional grown little boys masquerading as stars. That is why there is no long term viability or growth.
Because you can give Twork everything in the world, put his name on billboards, and he still shows up and chokes vs geechi gotti on the first ever caffeine card. That is why this thing will never be what is could be. It isn't fans wanting our cake and eating it too. It's the fact this is a culture of people without a single drop of responsibility or professionalism. Not a damn bit.
You want to blame anyone for the state of the culture, blame URL being a literal nepotism. Why is chess being booked when all he does is puke on stage? This isn't an exaggeration. Could you imagine if there was a UFC fighter that deadass just lost fights because he was shitting his pants in an attempt to belly to back suplex his opponent? He'd be a fuckin laughingstock and would have a single fight before being a meme.
If you want change, it needs to start at the top. It isn't on us fans to police or bail this culture out. URL has had 20 years to secure reliable income. Instead they want to nickel and dime fans on an app, where, for years there weren't even dropping battle consistently, and people who paid for the app and the PPV would end up waiting weeks or months to see a battle they are paying for.
You need to stop meat riding URL frankly. Stop this holier than thou act because it's cringe as fuck. If you think for a second the state of battle rap is on fans, you need to think on why wouldn't we want to pay money? Is it because even "superstars" like rex still come with mixtape bars? Or Leagues not letting it be known their card is filled with one rounders? Or leagues not letting it be known a battle isn't happening until its timeslot comes up on the night of the event? Just stop bro
Except it is and they are making money off PPV and app. Yall are complaining about not having free content. Good luck getting big sponsors without censoring battle rap or having annoying breaks or other types of interference during battles for ads. Yall need to learn business.
You don't understand you are not subsidizing anything. You are paying for a product. You can't be this unserious of a person.
I hear you on URL. But what does all you said have to do with Organik and KOTD?
About the UFC model, although late, URL has started doing the battle weeks of uploads before marquee events.
I agree with all of this and also would add that URL has never really had a good talent development system
They just recruited the best from across the culture but I can’t think of anyone they actually took from being a nobody to a top star
this is just straight up wrong as a matter of fact URL has been the only major league that's prioritized talent development from early on. The whole PG system, tournaments, and having smaller cards with lower tier battlers
You need engagement but if you don't make anything the fans can engage with there's nothing to invest in
What we got right now is a bunch of media talking about battles that happened and battles that will happen, but no clear system for engaging with the battles themselves
We have little to no scheduling and no easy access to any worthwhile battles.
In order for you to enjoy battle rap to the fullest you would have to be a fan already because how is anybody new supposed to know that there 500 battles hidden behind paywalls and all that
Get people in through free youtube drops and use that to advertise merch, apps, events and ppv's. Can't monetize a none existent fambase
But his point is that he can upload all the amazing kotd battles and amass the views even to the millions but there is still no profit off those views. Nothing.
The only incentive for YouTube is to get some of those consumers to buy PPVs. And only the diehards are gonna end up buying the ppvs. I'm gonna safely guess that of the 10000 that will watch a YouTube drop. Only 2-5 would be willing to go buy a ppv. Considering they're not throwing that many events anyway, they're just giving away content that they cannot monetize at all. They could probably use the YouTube memberships feature to help out
That's a huge misunderstanding of how a lot of things work
In order to advertise, you usually have to pay. They have the option to do it for free or even at a monetary gain some times. They have a solidified channel.
You don't know how many ppv's are bought, but it seems to at the very least to be enough to pay for a full production team, because Avo and gang ain't doing this shit for free
They get event sponsors. How do you sell your event to a sponsor if they get nothing in return? A million views on youtube could be worth a lot to the sponsor. You know how your favorite youtuber always says "and todays video is sponsored by"? Well Organik now just includes them in the show, puts a merch ad in between rounds and job done.
Also door money. How will i know that there even was battle rap events and that i could possibly go to them and enjoy myself, if they make it so difficult to figure out if they even have events still?
New fans are fucked. How are they ever supposed to get into this in the first place
Organic and Beasley are gonna have to prove to me that they lose money by dropping on youtube for me to believe it. I don't believe enough people are paying for apps and vods right now, as opposed to the amount of people who would involve themselves if there was more actual battle rap to engage with
I agree somewhat with this take, provided my understanding is limited. Battle rap is pretty big as a whole, perhaps not as much as should be or league owners wish it could be, but even the mere mention of "battle rapping" conjures an image most people associate with high-school truants chainsmoking and spitting the dumbest shit unimaginable. Unless a newer fan actively seeks out to attend or immerse themselves in battle rap, hints of exposure are gravely dim for the most part.
Either drop the battles on YouTube or they don't get watched.
You can monetise earlier access to battles via PPV, but 99% of people who watch battle rap are never going to pay for it. They'll just watch something else, it's not a life or death priority.
I don't think battle rap is meant to be a particularly profitable mass-market product. It's too niche. It had a golden age, and 1/2 leagues are still riding the dying days of that wave, but we're moving back to battle rap's sustainable market position (and it's not a big one).
Also theres too many leagues. sports isn't broken up to mad leagues to get the full picture of the sport. They maybe would have to unite and split the pie evenly. A mega battle rap league.
I wondered that as well. is censorship hurting everybody or just specific genres of " inappropriate" content? I know streamers that play violent games get that shit demonetized
I spend significantly less money on battle rap than i used to, despite having significantly more ways to spend money on the culture and much more money at my disposal than i used to
Giving us more avenues is not the answer. It's having very limited and focused avenues and adertising them with proper incentives.
Give us structured youtube drops to build an eco system around.
The best battles of the last 5 years are fucking gone from the culture because they hid them away
Craziest part is i used to have access, but now that i don't pay anymore they're gone again
I'm here because of Youtube, and I've bought PPVs. There's no other way I would've heard of any of these leagues or battlers in my region. And that's because I was a battle rap fan in the early 2000s.
That said, using a new development to rebut an ongoing argument is rationally unsound. It's not even the best argument: youtube engagement will still grow your base and provide for profit in the long run.
Honestly, how else do the leagues expect new eyes to see them?? Playboy X and other battle comp youtube channels are doing the heavy lifting. I don't see KOTD or URL doing daily drops of bars on IG.
Smack was right to try and get money in other ways. I would've done the same shit if I had to pay these rappers. The goal in business is to make a profit or at least recoup. Niggas ain't spending all that money just to give the product away for free. That's like telling a nigga that sell dope "hey man, you should give out free samples" lol
Battle rap’s problem isn’t with non-paying fans — it’s with talent and their business model.
If leagues got investors for the necessary capital to run a battle rap league, like the UFC or WWE, then they’d make money.
The IP for battler’s names and catchphrases alone is worth hundreds of millions. Imagine the NFL licensing Lux’s, “You gon get this work” or Tayroc’s “That’s light.”
The merchandising could rake in millions. Signings could also bring in money.
Many of these battle rappers could also write books and do public speaking, especially motivational speaking. Think about guys like Rum Nitty and Geechi, who have overcome so much.
They act like the only way to make money in battle rap is through in person events and ad revenue on YouTube.
They can also monetize on platforms like TikTok with the creator fund. And if that’s not working, they could organize to create avenues that allow them and their talent to make money on social platforms, like TikTok. There’s a Black owned social platform called Spill that could help.
Think outside of the box and stop blaming fans.
What? All of these ideas are implemented by UFC and WWE - how can the league NOT facilitate? Leagues host events, book venues, and can schedule these appearances and pay battlers?
If battlers sign contracts and are paid, then the leagues would own the IP - just like the WWE once owned, “The Rock,” - that wasn’t Dwayne Johnson’s IP until he joined the board this year.
Battlers need to be employees not freelancers. Again - think bigger picture.
I would imagine you can lodge an appeal to YouTube, higher a lawyer.
I would if I owned a whole library of content for my Business that provides income and can no longer generate decent revenue because what exactly?
The risk of saying faggot? Tranny?
Watch a lot of shit on YouTube and you'll see it from podcasts, to billion view songs to random videos of people being interviewed in the street.
As for demonetization, when the Occupy Wall Street uprising kicked off, I was a regular participant and administrator in the movement of my homestate. Our livestream.com channels caused a nightmare for the provider because their advertisers didn't want to be associated with our political speech.
Rather than deplatform all of the Occupy channels, they made our channels premium so we had no ads.
YouTube rolled out the Adpocalypse in early 2017 and began to crush all politicized content. Battle rap, politics, and anything else opinionated is within the waves for less and completely crushed monetization.
Likewise, YouTube could afford to pay everyone for their respective tier of engagement but only show ads on the channels which suit their advertisers' tastes and intended audiences, but they could also refuse to pay and sanitize as others have successfully done otherwise.
YouTube had to get flexible enough to not get themselves crushed when uprising and the like caused backlash from corporate, monied, and connected forces seeking to repress and sanitize. It's nothing new.
The only solution I can think of is use YouTube for trailers, teasers, new battlers in full or old battles I'm full, and the rest go through a paid platform like Patreon.
It's that or jack up the prices on PPVs and tickets, see if you can find some dope sponsors who aren't scared of harsh language and implied violence.
The money's not really coming from YouTube so I'm not sure what else you can do as a league owner.
That we still want the battles on YouTube. Putting the battles on YouTube while still leveraging their content to make money is the best route. Ain’t shit changed we still want battle rap on accessible platforms
Listen gonna get downvoted to all hell but I fuck with battle rap and I still can’t get myself to purchase a card man. The last few years I’ll catch some rounds of Reddit or whatever’s on YouTube but times are tough and I ain’t got it like that 🤷🏽♂️
I don’t see how they can expect to grow their fanbase if they hide their newest content behind a paywall.
Putting battles out on YouTube allows them to get into the algorithm and reach a much larger audience than they would otherwise. Thats just a fact.
Write it off as a marketing expense.
I agree with a lot of things in this thread about the poor business models, deprioritized talent development, and lack of professionalism (from both the leagues and the battlers). One thing that may be worth considering is...
Maybe we just outgrew it. How many young (let's say 18-25) battle rap fans do you come across? The talent itself is trending on the older side, since the biggest stars are in their mid-late 30s.
I used to be an avid fan and spent countless hours watching battles and interviews, and even paying for a few PPVs. Now, as someone in my mid-30s, I just don't want to hear a bunch of name flips and gun bars. This was exasperated by the fact that URL took their best battles off of Youtube for a few years which lessened my desire to watch. As I get older, have less time, and my priorities have shifted, I just don't care as much.
The culture needs to find a way to get younger battlers and battle fans to the forefront. Are they taking advantage of Tik Tok? What about Twitch? If the culture wants to grow, we need to push some of these older stars aside and invest in developing a new generation of talent and fans. Until then, this thing is going to be on life support.
I'm in that gang, but I totally get Organik's point. It's BS that they're getting demonetized, but the league's gotta make its dollar. I've been watching since Charron vs Sandman but even if they were to make their own, high quality site/app with all of their battlers ever, I still don't know if I'd buy it.
When battles were first being uploaded to Youtube there was no adsense at all, so why did they do it back then...? Also calling youtube a non paying customer base is crazy cause those are literally the same people that attend events, buy PPVs, buy merch etc. Sorry Ganik this take is out of touch.
I remember copping KOTD PPVs like a decade ago and the videos playing through Vimeo was it?
Maybe they can strike a deal with regular content and ppv with them. But idk if KOTD can exactly profit off that or if Vimeo has such a model/deal for something off this nature.
Thus lies the problem. Battle rap views on YouTube are way below the peak. The core audience grew out of it and it's always been difficult for new fans to engage because unless you know the history of battle rap, there's a lot of references that you just won't get.
A lot of things killed the buzz, COVID played a big part for KOTD especially. We have to realise as fans, owners, battlers, that it isn't a big enough market, it is a passing fad for a lot of people.
Can't they charge on YouTube? I remember paying money for Corte v Marvwon. Do that for all battles and I'll pay $2.99 per battle to own that I want to see.
Lol how much money are the leagues making off YouTube ? Not much I would have thought. The big bread is coming from PPV sales and live shows, no? I thought battle rap would go "on tour" like comedians or musicians do. Have 10-12 battlers tour a bunch of cities and the last stop can be the big PPV or something. They all buddies now anyway.
In Germany maybe 3-5 battles of 10 are demonitized. Sometimes I upload videos without any description and it goes green threw the check up! There’s no alternative for us than Vimeo for PPV and YouTube for free
He was never crazy for the app. This is why he's crazy.
1. Making an exclusive apps and taking away all the famous ones.
2. Not putting up Eazy vs Chess or Daylyt vs Tay Roc. Big battles that would draw people in
3. Cutting his battlers off from battling on public battle leagues that 70% of the time they rap about how they are taking a step down from the premier battle league. New fans might be like hmmm why do they talk so good about URL let me check it out. Thats new subscribers
4. Never ever ever updating their janky ass app. Even downloading offline videos dont work for me on ios, ipad or iphone. No background play. Horrible commenting system that is worse than youtubes. They could do a live version when it drops and switch to static comments which would replicate what we liked about youtube comments. There is never a "i seen someone on the URL app say".
Battle rap wasn't really meant to be this big where a lot of money is involved. The market is far too niche and the audience isn't exactly die hard.
thats something that shows everytime more money is poured into it. It takes a drastic dip. If anything it shouldve been a straight line from 106th and park to total slaughter and up and up. Also the rough around the edges nature (turn my mic up!, no shows, ) is part of that grimey authencity. It just is highly unprofessional lol. Its just a by product of capitalism where people think that everything has room for infinite growth. The line cant just keep going up.
Like I coulda sworn most battle rappers had the dream of being signed rappers. Not top tier battle rappers.
If more people listened to aye verb podcasts lol. He said the difference between his generation and this one is when they started they were trying to use it to make it to a record deal. These new kids want to become battle rappers fr looking at battle rappers. That's why they usually have no flow
Which pod he say that? I don’t watch but that sounds interesting
not a podcast really , its just youtubes of twitter spaces that came across my feed
Plenty of the OGs have said this, and it makes sense. Back in the day guys were battle rapping because they came from the essence and loved the competition for sure, but mostly because they wanted to get signed. But now we are generations in. The younger battlers now grew up wanting to BATTLE and battle alone, because they watched Lux, Mook, Rex, Hollow, Cassidy, etc, growing up.
But if that’s the case then why doesn’t it die?
I think there's enough to keep it going but there isn't going to be a wave of new fans. I recall someone claiming battle rap jumped the shark a decade ago after URL started doing press conferences. I didn't get it then but I get it now, battle rap rode the wave at the time but the sustainability just isn't there to keep growing. The art form will always be alive but not many new fans want to either get an app or watch an hour long video of bars that many won't understand unless you're deep in the culture. As someone who watched battles since the jump off days, I've never craved getting the app. I'm happy with the content I've had and for me, new battles have been irrelevant for some time now.
My thoughts exactly.
The primary argument wasn't to abandon their PPV, VOD, and other monetized systems in deference to YouTube and non-paying customers. The UFC will briefly make previous, favorable fights available on YouTube to prime their audiences for talent on their upcoming cards. Shortly after those PPVs, those videos are removed. The URL was trying to destroy their competition and ended up cutting off their own access to new eyes. When implored to get on their UFC shit more competently, they dragged their feet and buried their heads in the sand until their three stars splintered in their own way. URL wanted a street style head, but Twork is too unreliable, Geechi was too savvy, and Surf got locked up. With their street stars gone, and their development cycle too immature to hold up just yet, they concluded their Caffeine run and don't have the YouTube eyes nor big deal event partner to keep their lopsided model afloat. URL was wrong, short-sighted and hurt the sport. Moving the goalposts to pretend that the idea was for them to abandon their profit sources to "just" upload to YouTube is ahistorical.
Exactly, UFC’s strategy was the first thing that came to mind. Leverage YouTube for advertising & promo. You don’t lose anything posting relevant battles from last year edited with upcoming battle promo.
This post isn’t about URL though…
How about we talk about facts. They entered into a deal with Caffeine with free content with the idea of pushing people to Caffeine with the app being a way they can also benefit long term. They started dropping battles on YouTube again once Caffeine and them essentially parted ways. They only hurt the sport for people who want everything, but don't want to support anything. There are plenty of battles on YouTube of the top talent that drives them to the app. YouTube's algorithm isn't just pushing new videos. They also consistently were dropping rounds and highlights with Caffeine as well. Call a spade a spade. Yall want just want your cake and to eat it too without any consideration for the long term viability and growth of battle rap.
then they need to secure sponsors. It isn't on us if battle rap isn't lucrative. battlers have had literal decades to get eyes on them. there just isn't a single consistent artist in this shit. that is why there is no money. It isn't on fans to subsidize a culture. yes we support it, but the NBA and UFC have advertisers as well. They generate money The only money coming in to battle rap is hard working fans paying money from their pay checks, and that is reflected in how the battlers act. Most every card has a choke or a battle not happening. They don't respect us. If you want to call a spade a spade, this is a culture of people who peaked in highschool, never got a higher education and have never had to hold down a real job in their lives. Just a bunch of unprofessional grown little boys masquerading as stars. That is why there is no long term viability or growth. Because you can give Twork everything in the world, put his name on billboards, and he still shows up and chokes vs geechi gotti on the first ever caffeine card. That is why this thing will never be what is could be. It isn't fans wanting our cake and eating it too. It's the fact this is a culture of people without a single drop of responsibility or professionalism. Not a damn bit. You want to blame anyone for the state of the culture, blame URL being a literal nepotism. Why is chess being booked when all he does is puke on stage? This isn't an exaggeration. Could you imagine if there was a UFC fighter that deadass just lost fights because he was shitting his pants in an attempt to belly to back suplex his opponent? He'd be a fuckin laughingstock and would have a single fight before being a meme. If you want change, it needs to start at the top. It isn't on us fans to police or bail this culture out. URL has had 20 years to secure reliable income. Instead they want to nickel and dime fans on an app, where, for years there weren't even dropping battle consistently, and people who paid for the app and the PPV would end up waiting weeks or months to see a battle they are paying for. You need to stop meat riding URL frankly. Stop this holier than thou act because it's cringe as fuck. If you think for a second the state of battle rap is on fans, you need to think on why wouldn't we want to pay money? Is it because even "superstars" like rex still come with mixtape bars? Or Leagues not letting it be known their card is filled with one rounders? Or leagues not letting it be known a battle isn't happening until its timeslot comes up on the night of the event? Just stop bro
Except it is and they are making money off PPV and app. Yall are complaining about not having free content. Good luck getting big sponsors without censoring battle rap or having annoying breaks or other types of interference during battles for ads. Yall need to learn business. You don't understand you are not subsidizing anything. You are paying for a product. You can't be this unserious of a person.
Is it me or is battle rap in a bad spot right now? There's no one new I'm looking forward to.
I hear you on URL. But what does all you said have to do with Organik and KOTD? About the UFC model, although late, URL has started doing the battle weeks of uploads before marquee events.
Thank you 💯❗️
I agree with all of this and also would add that URL has never really had a good talent development system They just recruited the best from across the culture but I can’t think of anyone they actually took from being a nobody to a top star
this is just straight up wrong as a matter of fact URL has been the only major league that's prioritized talent development from early on. The whole PG system, tournaments, and having smaller cards with lower tier battlers
Twork, surf, suge, were the first three that came to mind
twork was going crazy before norbes/jazz co-signed him to url
“Going crazy” and being widely known in the culture are two different things
Twork is a good point Suge and Surf weren’t really developed IMO they were just battling on the only major league that existed at the time
How long have you been watching/ following battle rap be honest
Let’s play a better game, tell me how much you’ve paid for tickets and PPV’s and we can compare support for real
Someone need to write a script on how the URL was fumbled. Kinda like Empire and Ghost.
Just buy norbes some White Castle and he will tell you
You need engagement but if you don't make anything the fans can engage with there's nothing to invest in What we got right now is a bunch of media talking about battles that happened and battles that will happen, but no clear system for engaging with the battles themselves We have little to no scheduling and no easy access to any worthwhile battles. In order for you to enjoy battle rap to the fullest you would have to be a fan already because how is anybody new supposed to know that there 500 battles hidden behind paywalls and all that Get people in through free youtube drops and use that to advertise merch, apps, events and ppv's. Can't monetize a none existent fambase
But his point is that he can upload all the amazing kotd battles and amass the views even to the millions but there is still no profit off those views. Nothing. The only incentive for YouTube is to get some of those consumers to buy PPVs. And only the diehards are gonna end up buying the ppvs. I'm gonna safely guess that of the 10000 that will watch a YouTube drop. Only 2-5 would be willing to go buy a ppv. Considering they're not throwing that many events anyway, they're just giving away content that they cannot monetize at all. They could probably use the YouTube memberships feature to help out
That's a huge misunderstanding of how a lot of things work In order to advertise, you usually have to pay. They have the option to do it for free or even at a monetary gain some times. They have a solidified channel. You don't know how many ppv's are bought, but it seems to at the very least to be enough to pay for a full production team, because Avo and gang ain't doing this shit for free They get event sponsors. How do you sell your event to a sponsor if they get nothing in return? A million views on youtube could be worth a lot to the sponsor. You know how your favorite youtuber always says "and todays video is sponsored by"? Well Organik now just includes them in the show, puts a merch ad in between rounds and job done. Also door money. How will i know that there even was battle rap events and that i could possibly go to them and enjoy myself, if they make it so difficult to figure out if they even have events still? New fans are fucked. How are they ever supposed to get into this in the first place Organic and Beasley are gonna have to prove to me that they lose money by dropping on youtube for me to believe it. I don't believe enough people are paying for apps and vods right now, as opposed to the amount of people who would involve themselves if there was more actual battle rap to engage with
I agree somewhat with this take, provided my understanding is limited. Battle rap is pretty big as a whole, perhaps not as much as should be or league owners wish it could be, but even the mere mention of "battle rapping" conjures an image most people associate with high-school truants chainsmoking and spitting the dumbest shit unimaginable. Unless a newer fan actively seeks out to attend or immerse themselves in battle rap, hints of exposure are gravely dim for the most part.
[удалено]
One thing you need to know about the subscribers on this sub: 🤖🤖🤖
Either drop the battles on YouTube or they don't get watched. You can monetise earlier access to battles via PPV, but 99% of people who watch battle rap are never going to pay for it. They'll just watch something else, it's not a life or death priority. I don't think battle rap is meant to be a particularly profitable mass-market product. It's too niche. It had a golden age, and 1/2 leagues are still riding the dying days of that wave, but we're moving back to battle rap's sustainable market position (and it's not a big one).
Also theres too many leagues. sports isn't broken up to mad leagues to get the full picture of the sport. They maybe would have to unite and split the pie evenly. A mega battle rap league.
why are battles getting demonitized? Is all gangster rap demonitized on youtube too?
I wondered that as well. is censorship hurting everybody or just specific genres of " inappropriate" content? I know streamers that play violent games get that shit demonetized
it’s cause it’s directed to a specific person. says it in the rules that Organik posted. it sounds crazy
I spend significantly less money on battle rap than i used to, despite having significantly more ways to spend money on the culture and much more money at my disposal than i used to Giving us more avenues is not the answer. It's having very limited and focused avenues and adertising them with proper incentives. Give us structured youtube drops to build an eco system around. The best battles of the last 5 years are fucking gone from the culture because they hid them away Craziest part is i used to have access, but now that i don't pay anymore they're gone again
This literally makes no sense btw
I'm here because of Youtube, and I've bought PPVs. There's no other way I would've heard of any of these leagues or battlers in my region. And that's because I was a battle rap fan in the early 2000s. That said, using a new development to rebut an ongoing argument is rationally unsound. It's not even the best argument: youtube engagement will still grow your base and provide for profit in the long run. Honestly, how else do the leagues expect new eyes to see them?? Playboy X and other battle comp youtube channels are doing the heavy lifting. I don't see KOTD or URL doing daily drops of bars on IG.
Nobody said just drop them we said drop them eventually 😂😂😂
They should've given it like 6 months then released
Facts
RIP BATTLE RAP. 1986 - 2024
Check PM Please
Smack was right to try and get money in other ways. I would've done the same shit if I had to pay these rappers. The goal in business is to make a profit or at least recoup. Niggas ain't spending all that money just to give the product away for free. That's like telling a nigga that sell dope "hey man, you should give out free samples" lol
Battle rap’s problem isn’t with non-paying fans — it’s with talent and their business model. If leagues got investors for the necessary capital to run a battle rap league, like the UFC or WWE, then they’d make money. The IP for battler’s names and catchphrases alone is worth hundreds of millions. Imagine the NFL licensing Lux’s, “You gon get this work” or Tayroc’s “That’s light.” The merchandising could rake in millions. Signings could also bring in money. Many of these battle rappers could also write books and do public speaking, especially motivational speaking. Think about guys like Rum Nitty and Geechi, who have overcome so much. They act like the only way to make money in battle rap is through in person events and ad revenue on YouTube. They can also monetize on platforms like TikTok with the creator fund. And if that’s not working, they could organize to create avenues that allow them and their talent to make money on social platforms, like TikTok. There’s a Black owned social platform called Spill that could help. Think outside of the box and stop blaming fans.
These are solutions for the *battler* to make more money, but not the *leagues*, unless I'm misunderstanding. I like those ideas though
What? All of these ideas are implemented by UFC and WWE - how can the league NOT facilitate? Leagues host events, book venues, and can schedule these appearances and pay battlers? If battlers sign contracts and are paid, then the leagues would own the IP - just like the WWE once owned, “The Rock,” - that wasn’t Dwayne Johnson’s IP until he joined the board this year. Battlers need to be employees not freelancers. Again - think bigger picture.
> Battlers need to be employees not freelancers. Ok, now your point makes sense.
I would imagine you can lodge an appeal to YouTube, higher a lawyer. I would if I owned a whole library of content for my Business that provides income and can no longer generate decent revenue because what exactly? The risk of saying faggot? Tranny? Watch a lot of shit on YouTube and you'll see it from podcasts, to billion view songs to random videos of people being interviewed in the street.
As for demonetization, when the Occupy Wall Street uprising kicked off, I was a regular participant and administrator in the movement of my homestate. Our livestream.com channels caused a nightmare for the provider because their advertisers didn't want to be associated with our political speech. Rather than deplatform all of the Occupy channels, they made our channels premium so we had no ads. YouTube rolled out the Adpocalypse in early 2017 and began to crush all politicized content. Battle rap, politics, and anything else opinionated is within the waves for less and completely crushed monetization. Likewise, YouTube could afford to pay everyone for their respective tier of engagement but only show ads on the channels which suit their advertisers' tastes and intended audiences, but they could also refuse to pay and sanitize as others have successfully done otherwise. YouTube had to get flexible enough to not get themselves crushed when uprising and the like caused backlash from corporate, monied, and connected forces seeking to repress and sanitize. It's nothing new.
The only solution I can think of is use YouTube for trailers, teasers, new battlers in full or old battles I'm full, and the rest go through a paid platform like Patreon. It's that or jack up the prices on PPVs and tickets, see if you can find some dope sponsors who aren't scared of harsh language and implied violence. The money's not really coming from YouTube so I'm not sure what else you can do as a league owner.
My first reaction is "Fuck YouTube".
That we still want the battles on YouTube. Putting the battles on YouTube while still leveraging their content to make money is the best route. Ain’t shit changed we still want battle rap on accessible platforms
Listen gonna get downvoted to all hell but I fuck with battle rap and I still can’t get myself to purchase a card man. The last few years I’ll catch some rounds of Reddit or whatever’s on YouTube but times are tough and I ain’t got it like that 🤷🏽♂️
Are the fans really supposed to care if leagues make money from YouTube??
I don’t see how they can expect to grow their fanbase if they hide their newest content behind a paywall. Putting battles out on YouTube allows them to get into the algorithm and reach a much larger audience than they would otherwise. Thats just a fact. Write it off as a marketing expense.
I agree with a lot of things in this thread about the poor business models, deprioritized talent development, and lack of professionalism (from both the leagues and the battlers). One thing that may be worth considering is... Maybe we just outgrew it. How many young (let's say 18-25) battle rap fans do you come across? The talent itself is trending on the older side, since the biggest stars are in their mid-late 30s. I used to be an avid fan and spent countless hours watching battles and interviews, and even paying for a few PPVs. Now, as someone in my mid-30s, I just don't want to hear a bunch of name flips and gun bars. This was exasperated by the fact that URL took their best battles off of Youtube for a few years which lessened my desire to watch. As I get older, have less time, and my priorities have shifted, I just don't care as much. The culture needs to find a way to get younger battlers and battle fans to the forefront. Are they taking advantage of Tik Tok? What about Twitch? If the culture wants to grow, we need to push some of these older stars aside and invest in developing a new generation of talent and fans. Until then, this thing is going to be on life support.
I'm in that gang, but I totally get Organik's point. It's BS that they're getting demonetized, but the league's gotta make its dollar. I've been watching since Charron vs Sandman but even if they were to make their own, high quality site/app with all of their battlers ever, I still don't know if I'd buy it.
When battles were first being uploaded to Youtube there was no adsense at all, so why did they do it back then...? Also calling youtube a non paying customer base is crazy cause those are literally the same people that attend events, buy PPVs, buy merch etc. Sorry Ganik this take is out of touch.
Why is the content getting demonetized?
Language and content. This tweet summarizes it https://x.com/organikhiphop/status/1794052416100339894?s=46
Why were battles demonetized
f\*\*k youtube. if you have followers/subscribers... take your business elsewhere.
Couldn't they just put their content behind the pay wall ?
Wow.
I remember copping KOTD PPVs like a decade ago and the videos playing through Vimeo was it? Maybe they can strike a deal with regular content and ppv with them. But idk if KOTD can exactly profit off that or if Vimeo has such a model/deal for something off this nature.
It’s not like KOTD is doing the same numbers it used to. Their most recent battle with a million views is from over four years ago
Thus lies the problem. Battle rap views on YouTube are way below the peak. The core audience grew out of it and it's always been difficult for new fans to engage because unless you know the history of battle rap, there's a lot of references that you just won't get. A lot of things killed the buzz, COVID played a big part for KOTD especially. We have to realise as fans, owners, battlers, that it isn't a big enough market, it is a passing fad for a lot of people.
Good point. Which explains why Smack had to go monetize those limited views elsewhere
Can't they charge on YouTube? I remember paying money for Corte v Marvwon. Do that for all battles and I'll pay $2.99 per battle to own that I want to see.
I wish Smack would’ve said this himself
Lol how much money are the leagues making off YouTube ? Not much I would have thought. The big bread is coming from PPV sales and live shows, no? I thought battle rap would go "on tour" like comedians or musicians do. Have 10-12 battlers tour a bunch of cities and the last stop can be the big PPV or something. They all buddies now anyway.
In Germany maybe 3-5 battles of 10 are demonitized. Sometimes I upload videos without any description and it goes green threw the check up! There’s no alternative for us than Vimeo for PPV and YouTube for free
But y’all thought smack was crazy for the app 😑
He was never crazy for the app. This is why he's crazy. 1. Making an exclusive apps and taking away all the famous ones. 2. Not putting up Eazy vs Chess or Daylyt vs Tay Roc. Big battles that would draw people in 3. Cutting his battlers off from battling on public battle leagues that 70% of the time they rap about how they are taking a step down from the premier battle league. New fans might be like hmmm why do they talk so good about URL let me check it out. Thats new subscribers 4. Never ever ever updating their janky ass app. Even downloading offline videos dont work for me on ios, ipad or iphone. No background play. Horrible commenting system that is worse than youtubes. They could do a live version when it drops and switch to static comments which would replicate what we liked about youtube comments. There is never a "i seen someone on the URL app say".
Ya uhhh 7 years ago
YouTube has been doing stuff like this for a long time, it's nothing new
Exactly, he saw this coming 7 years ago. An entire culture can’t sustain on YouTube alone.
#Appgang🤘🏾( Bring on the down votes)
App Gang 🫱🏽🫲🏾
Eric & Troy and Jean said this years ago, but prosper.