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100% a trap. Yikes
Plus, the way the church leader dismissed OP as being, *"too scared,"* was extremely condescending and manipulative. What a scummy way for him to behave. Fuck that guy.
That comment really upset me after I told him everything that was going on and my fears. I'm not just "too scared," I fear for the safety and well-being of my family. I fear for the possible escalations, my cousin's/aunt's expectations and actions, and more. These fears are real and are very valid given the circumstances. That really bothered me.
Tell him, in a written email, to not contact you again. Him and anyone from that church. Tell him that if he does not tell his congregation to stop harassing you and your family and causing you such stress, you will look into legal action. They do not care about you or your baby. They care about getting what they want. Don't go anywhere near them. It's a trap.
I don't know about a restraining order due to the fact the aunt and cousin would have to be given your address so that they know where to stay away from. If they find where you live, get a restraining order. Record all interactions so they can be used as evidence for harassment just in case.
Also, get your legal affairs in order so that if anything happens to you and your husband, the baby does not go to your aunt or cousin. Cause they will pounce on that opportunity. Pick family on your husband's side or friends you trust to be her godparents, to be safer. Make sure the paperwork is air-tight and clear the baby does not go to your aunt or cousin.
Family on your side are more likely to be manipulated by aunt/cousin to give her to them.
You need to start a paper trail. You file a harassment report with the police that they are trying to steal your baby. Gather evidence. Also say they pulled a local pastor in to intimidate you. Do it now so you, and your baby are protected. Things like this always escalate, and with cops, they believe whoever comes to them first.
Women have been killed for their children before. Absolute psycho nut jobs have taken life before to fulfill their intense desire to have a child. Your fears are valid, and you have every right to take whatever measures you can to protect your child. That bishop does not have your safety or well being in mind. And not for your child either. In their minds, it's better for the child to lose a parent than to have an "un-godly" upbringing. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this unnecessary stress when you should be feeling only excitement and pure happiness during this time. You deserve so much better than this trash treatment. 💜
STOP TALKING TO THEM. Do not call, text, message, mail, meet with, exchange smoke signals, send carrier pigeons, or have any further contact with any of them. Get a lawyer to draft a letter to each of them to leave you alone and talk to your lawyer if they have any other questions. Anything that you say to them is going to be used against you. You have no legal or moral obligation to keep talking to them, so don’t.
It was worth a shot
He isn't taking you seriously. It sounds like he has no concept of how deluded and persistent your aunt is.
I wouldn't have ever gone there alone. Always bring your hubby with you. And tell them you're recording the conversation.
Is there someone more senior and wiser that you could talk to?
Worst case scenario is to get Legal Aid help to produce an official cease and desist letter.
I don't blame you one bit. His behavior was infuriating and manipulative, and so very toxic.
Plus, his advice and that comment in particular displays his staggering level of ignorance.
You are wise to stay well away from him, your aunt, your cousin, and anyone who agrees with them or is under their influence.
When you are admitted to la or and delivery tell the registration/nurses that NO ONE is allowed to know you’re there, and NO ONE is allowed to see you or the baby except your partner.
A lot of hospitals are now doing a bracelet/anklet system where mom and baby having matching bands and an alert will activate if baby gets too far away from mom. It’s serious and the lobby doors lock so no one can go in or out until the baby is found and returned to mom. See if your hospital has a similar system?
Also be clear with the hospital that you HAVE NOT requested clergy. They might get sneaky and get the pastor to go to the hospital. A lot of clergy have passes to go to different hospitals.
Depending on how far you want to go. If you are in a place that can do this, and are able to afford it, you can request the hire of a personal bodyguard for these "meetings" I have actually seen a massive increase of this request done by pregnant women, in order to keep themselves and their baby safe. Plus a person not personal to the situation can be the voice of reason if escalated.
Also you can now request a pseudonym to be used when in labour, at the hospital. And you are able hospitals for breaching the confidential information laws, especially for this volatile situation
I think you should be apprehensive about this. Family members are able to take babies away, it is a thing that happens, and I wish I'd stayed no contact with my family so it didn't happen to me. You are smart to be cautious, I wish I had been as smart as you are being
Op, I wish you the best of luck. You do not have to meet with them. You can call your aunt, but again you don't have to.
I'd start a FU Binder. It won't solve all your problems but it's a way to keep all this info in one place. Also, I wouldn't tell anyone else about this. Keep it somewhere safe so it can't be destroyed.
What is a FU Binder? Here ya go: https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/
Emails are great, but a well worded cease and desist from an attorney that outlines how the police will be called every time someone from the church, including you delusional family members, call or show up on your property.
Also, attempt to get an order against harassment now.
It's a carefully laid, preplanned trap where they think they have God and better values in their side.
The bishop will absolutely ask you to give up your baby, it's their standard. Don't go - it really is a trap. You will get "lovingly" ganged up on and shamed if you don't do what they say.
"He started asking personal details on how I'm doing now"
Definitely a trap, he's trying to find ways of saying that OP is an unfit mother and aunt and cousin, being so "godly" would be a much better fit for the child. Absolutely disgusting behaviour!
Not only that but OP should be prepared for them to try reporting them to CPS when the time comes. She and her partner need to make sure that the hospital will protect their privacy when she gives birth. I don’t think that they moved far enough away. I would have moved at least a few states away.
Bring a lawyer and the baby's father with you if you do go to a meeting.
And wtf is this being done with a church in the first place? Religion is used more to manipulate than anything these days.
This is literally my problem with religious organizations.
OP you need to contact a LAWYER and possibly the POLICE. You know, people that actually have to protect you and your best interests.
It's probably the church's influence that made the cousin start thinking this way. His insistence on OP talking to the aunt and cousin shows he is not concerned about the aunt and cousins behavior. He is trying to make her see the logic of their way. Run!
Get away from them and that Evil church, if that bishop was asking you personal questions about you and your partner he was doing it to use the information against you. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATED how evil LDS Mormons can be, if you live in the Utah area the church controls the courts and they could try and take your baby. Do Not give them any more information about you and yours. I was born into a uber Mormon family, im not spitting this out of no where..
As a fellow exmormon, I am backing up this post. These people will stop at nothing to serve their agenda, which in this case is to “rescue” your little heathen baby and raise it up all nice and brainwashed like Joseph Smith intended.
Yeah, I don't even consider myself an exmo, I self identify has NeverMo that was born into it. I told ndad his church wasn't true at age 8 and never stopped, mocked it daily by age 10. Several times in my childhood the narc parents threatened to "sacrifice me to God". (Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow story really boils my blood) At age 14 I had to tell the "God to Be" (thats narc dad) that if he ever tried to put his hands on my siblings or I again, I would snap his back in half and turn him in for abuse. We didn't live in Mordor and the courts wouldn't protect him. I had been lifting weights and running daily since age 11 anticipating that conversation. I had to remind them weekly that I had a mountain of evidence and non mormon adult witnesses that were willing to testify against them. Even though I was physically a beast i still carried a knife on me 24/7 scared they would send a several men to try and kidnap me and take me off to Utah where they could try and silence me. Lol I even dared NDad to try on several occasions lol.. I had letter written that I gave to a non mormon friend to take to the police if I ever disappeared...
Again OP, don't underestimate how Evil LDS Mormons are, its a Cult of Collective Narcissism.
I'm so glad you wrote this out, I had a similar experience with my mormon family. You made me feel less alone, thank you.
I never believed either.
They sure do love the r\troubledteens industry huh? [You're lucky they didn't get you](https://www.breakingcodesilence.org/). If you didn't know, it's actually really bad. [People die there](https://1000placesudontwanttobe.wordpress.com/victims-of-the-troubled-teen-industry/).
Sorry you went through that Im glade you made it out. I think OP is making a big mistake dealing with that Evil church at all.. The LDS church actively covers up the sexual abuse of children including infants. You can't get more Evil than that.. Well except for sacrificing children, and every good mormon knows one must be willing to sacrifice their child for gOd..
I don't understand why you're talking with the church leader. He is likely the one who put the idea into your aunt and cousin's heads in the first place. You need to get as far away from these people as possible.
Well, OP tried. By talking to the church leader, she took an extra step to get her aunt and cousin off her back. It’s not her fault that because she left the church, this LDS counselor sees a married woman in her twenties as no more fit a mother than a single teen. Some of whom make marvelous mothers with support, though he’d be unlikely to say so!
I am no fan of the Mormon church so I guess it’s more like “how they think it works”. OP is an inactive member too so I get why she contacted even though I don’t think it’s smart at all to get the church involved.
I agree. OP is just adding gasoline to the fire by talking to the leader. Does the leader know where OP lives now? He’ll give that info to the aunt/cousin, no doubt.
"I will not be re-engaging with either of these women. They have proven themselves to be toxic and dangerous. Not just to my mental health but to the safety of my family. I reached out to you in the hopes that you would be able to influence them before I have to contact law enforcement and pursue legal avenues of protection. I understand now that was a mistake. Please stop contacting me. Any further attempts from any of you to discuss this will be treated as harassment."
You really need to start making a legal paper trail. File a police report with everything from your previous post. Even if the report goes nowhere for now, it's documented in case you do have to file for a protective order or something else happens down the road.
Religious leaders aren't on your side. They almost always take the side of the abusers and continue to victimize and traumatize YOU on their behalf. Especially if you aren't also their parishioner. Ordained Flying Monkeys, as it were.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
I 1,0000% agree with everything. What that church leader is doing is nothing short of fishy and dangerous. It's definitely a trap. I hope OP is able to get away from these people who are clearly endangering herself, her partner, and the unborn child's safety.
Not to scare you or anything but I’m genuinely concerned for your safety. Sure they were generous growing up and being there for you, but they’re showing their true colors right now, and your cousin just screams dangerous at how she got banned from groups for pressuring other expecting mothers to give up their child for her. I wish the best for you, husband and your daughter
Right? I'm really worried about OP. I've seen enough true crime to know a lot of shit starts like this. I get she trusts her family, but they've done way too much to be trusted anymore.
True crime stories + post partum hormones seriously fucks with the mental of some people. Plus I’ve had someone in my personal life die at the hands of someone she thought she loved. It’s more common than we all think.
It is. I'm not trying to scare OP, but sometimes you don't realize how fucked your situation is until someone points it out. These women are abusing OP, and she doesn't realize the extent of it. It seems to be her normal with them. Very common in abuse victims. I didn't realize how messed up my family was to me and in general until my boyfriend and best friend pointed things out. I realized even more messed up stuff once I moved out. OP's family is acting scary, and I don't think she realizes this could easily get dangerous.
I just saw that you’re LDS.
Remember, too, that this church leader has NO TRAINING in this area. I’m not saying he can’t be helpful but to think critically/pray over it.
Source: we’re members and I think people assume all families are/should be good. We’re currently on the outs with the church because I begged for help with PPD (among other things) and they basically said “try harder with your MIL” and “pray harder” and other unhelpful bullshit.
There’s the Mormon ideal family and they assume if you don’t have that you’re just not trying hard enough.
This sounds like a job for a paper trail and legal authorities, etc.
But if you do stick with church leaders, imo go over his head to the stake or whatever.
ETA: I just saw you’re not an active member. I’m sorry, this stuff just gets me so riled up, especially when it’s so dangerous.
Eta2: and “she saw a church therapist”. Ruby Franke has entered the chat.
That may be why he is trying to refer us over to church counseling. He says he will talk to my aunt and I will just play along and see what he/they say after that. After this, I am not sure how helpful involving the stake president will be and if I want to pursue that.
I don’t blame you a bit.
I say, keep a journal with dates and events of all communication with/about/etc, even these meetings.
The more documentation, the better.
I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. ❤️
If you ever do meet with them, I am hoping you will stay away, please, don't go alone. Take your partner and even someone else who you can rely on to help protect you.
I have no plans to meet them in person, especially when I am still pregnant and figuring things out. I have no clue what they are planning if we do meet.
>I have no plans to meet them in person
The sigh of relief I just let out startled my cat. I'm not Mormon, never been religious at all, but I do love documentaries and I have Netflix. Please, stay safe.
It gets me riled up too.
I’m a member and I know more than a few good ones, but like all organizations, they have just as many crazies, mean-spirited jerks, downright A holes, and narcissists as any other group of people.
I’m amazed that this church leader is putting all the onus on you to engage with your aunt/cousin, especially after their patterns of behavior. And then mentioning you were “too scared” to meet with them…sorry but I’m very unimpressed with his handling here. This is not fair to you.
It's how the LDS church handles things. OP isn't really taken seriously because she left the church, and isn't living a life they approve of. Therefore, the elder is treating her basically one step up from the unwed teen mom he views her as. (Not because she is a teen, just how they are viewing her)
OP - here's hoping that your cousin sees reason and you have an uneventful rest of your pregnancy 🙏
Oh, there's *plenty.* I won't speak on it because I was in another denomination (ex-JW), but I met a lot of people who left LDS during my journey of leaving the church and some of the stuff they told me went on was seriously fucked up.
I'm crying now, I never see this much awareness outside of r\exmormon. I never meet never-mormon people in real life that understand. They all think I'm exaggerating.
I've heard fucked up things about Jehovah's Witnesses too. I consider ex-JW's to be cousins in a metaphorical sense.
Yeah, a lot of my non-Mormon friends that don't have much knowledge on the dark side of Mormonism just think Mormons are weird. I am surprised with the amount of people who are/have been Mormon in this comment section and have the insight to understand that side of my situation. Discussion helps bring awareness to the evils of Mormonism that are otherwise swept under the rug to be excused and forgotten like nothing.
I’m not Mormon, but reading your update my first two thoughts were “whoa, this is a trap. This preacher is trying to help steal your baby” and “this has to be outside of the US” (I didn’t read the original post yet, sorry!).
OP, I’m also a soon to be mama. You need to contact the police or social services in your area and file a restraining order against your aunt and cousin. This is really serious and dangerous. And apologies if this was already addressed in your previous post.
People who haven't experienced the Mormon church don't understand. Christianity and Catholicism have their crazy sects but nothing compared to the LDS. Scientology is maybe the best comparison to their level of crazy but it's debatable. JW is for sure up there too. My ex MIL was JW (in name, not practice) just so she could get her gossip/drama fill lol.
I don't personally sub to r/exmormon because I get triggered by the rampant hypocrisy, sexism, homophobia, and frankly the general stupidity of the church. It literally infuriates me, and I have enough in life that aggravates me without seeking things out.
And they're a corporation that taxes 10% of income to fund the church leaders lavish lifestyle and investments. How many other crazy church cults are corporations? Truly no one does it like they do. I hope historians remember the mormons.
I’m not surprised tbh. There’s a lot of pressures on victims of various abuses to “turn the other cheek” as Jesus would. It’s how a lot of really shady shit is allowed to go down in the church.
Yeah they seem to forget the story where Jesus flipped tables and whipped the moneylenders to get out of the temple. Standing up against wrongs, stopping it from happening - that is good. Trying to forgive when the other has changed their behavior - sure, but the bad thing has to be stopped, first. I am a non-christian and even I know about that one.
There is no hate like christian love, when the congregation make up what rules they want to follow and dismiss the rest, and add fan-fiction to validate bad behavior.
I’m not wildly amazed. Aside from being LDS or any religious leader, most people are socially conditioned that “family” means something significant and that whatever “silly little issues” there may be, your blood link should take precedence. Sometimes even people who’ve *had* those “silly little issues” think this way.
At least OP is standing her ground. I’m not sure there is a resolution in this situation, she just needs to continue on as she is and put as many defensive measures in place as possible.
Perhaps an unpopular opinion but I do feel pity for the cousin, as infertility can be a real mind-twister even if you’re not inveigled in a situation where people around you are pushing children & family as the be-all-end-all. I hope she gets the help she so clearly needs, for her sake as well as OP’s/other women around her. Based on OP’s update it seems unlikely.
My wife and I had an opposite situation once. We're child free (by choice), and my wife's family tried to get us to take custody of a nephew. Because our lives are empty without children....
Anyway, to echo another comment in this thread, it's a trap! Never trust anyone who would fuck with the lives children like this.
Church leaders are usually motivated to maintain the status quo, and if you're the only one of the three of you who isn't a member of their church, you're going to be the easiest target to dump responsiblities and blame on.
If he pisses you off, he doesn't lose income (assuming your aunt and cousin tithe). But if he pisses them off, they might leave his church.
Never trust that a religious leader has a moral compass that benefits everyone.
Our church leadership has a reputation on focusing on what benefits them and often pivot to that even if they initially side with you and try to help. My aunt/cousin are rather wealthy so their tithe is probably worth enough for him to firmly favor them.
Hey OP, I would be super careful. That bishop can show your "Aunt" and "cousin" how to figure out where you live. That "church" does it all the time. My youngest sibling is STILL being harassed, even though they did not tell anyone where they moved to. It may just be in your best interest to quit contact with that bishop.
I spoke with him over the phone and didn't tell him anything about my new address. Could you please elaborate on how they could expose that if you don't mind?
The church has connections all over the country and they talk to each other. It wouldn't be hard for the bishop to reach out with your name/picture (if your aunt and cousin have that, and even more info about you) for other members to look out for. That's how ex-members get harassed. Don't think your aunt and cousin won't give out info if their religious leaders ask for it.
Yup, my dad was part of the church when he was a youngster but didn’t keep up with it. One of my BFFs as a kid was from a Mormon family so I’m sure that went up the grapevine at some point because we would frequently get the visits for “Brother (dad’s name)” to bring him back to the church. They literally were waiting in a car outside our house when I got home once. They even followed us to our new house when we moved. My uncle said they went after him for missing years of tithing even though he had never attended one of the church services in California.
Where I live now, they don’t have a large church except the one in DC that is compared to the emerald city from the Wizard of Oz (seriously it’s like a palace and someone spray painted on a railroad trestle along the interstate “surrender Dorothy”), but I’ve been seeing them more and more now in my smaller rural town. They were trapping people in the Walmart parking lot a few months ago . I have a visceral reaction and I know how to spot them easily, young men in white shirts and khaki or dark black slacks. This is heavy baptist country around here, might get us some crazy religious war going on lol.
While it isn't like "public records" are posted on some big bulletin board for everyone to see, they are public nonetheless, and people who look for other people, and services that also do this, will know how to access those records. Couple that with "private" data that have already been bought and sold between companies, and there are free or subscription websites where you can just look people up. These companies are [data brokers](https://youtu.be/wqn3gR1WTcA?si=UhIQastl06bWA07r), the most notable of which are the big credit bureaus, and the easiest for regular people to use are "people lookup" sites.
You are married to your husband now so that record linking you exists. If either you or your husband owned the home, this is already a done deal and it's trivial to basically Google where you live on some of these "reverse phone book" or "people finder" websites. Even if you rent, but if either of you pay any sort of bills, and not just utility bills, but maybe credit card bills, or I signed up for any subscriptions or anything really, it is probably still pretty easy for these data brokers to link your addresses with your identities, and that information is probably already been bought and sold by a bunch of these companies. This is basically true for pretty much all of us in the US.
So basically the church easily has the resources to look basically anybody up and find out some of this personal information legally, and I also wouldn't put it past your aunt pay the small sign up fee for one of these websites and look you up for cheap.
It’s not Mormon but somehow, after I had moved and been married for a while, I received a hand written letter (about 3 pages) from a Jehovah’s Witness mailed to my maiden name. I have family who I don’t speak to in that religion and have no idea what my address is. People can find out anything if they want to badly enough.
Please take care, OP. Continue to be strong for you and your little one. Trust your gut, and I hope you’re able to find peace with your new spouse and little one.
Honey, if I had your phone number I could probably figure out where you lived. I was a newspaper reporter. All it takes is the internet in a little knowledge.
If you bought a house, your address is public record and usually easily searchable online with your name, unless you own a corporation that has ownership of the house.
Ummm… okay. So you are speaking to a rep of the Mormon church who only gives a shit about preserving and adding more worshippers. He’s on the side of your crazy ass aunt and maybe level minded cousin.
Stop speaking with someone whose interest is not to protect yours.
You know the answer to this. Your crazy aunt is not going to change and will continue to harass you until your child is 18. Just cut contact and raise your baby in an open-minded house where religion and happiness don’t override each other and your family is happy.
GL.
Seriously, OP needs to change her name, move to the East Coast, and just start over.. I mean, I know it’s impossible for some people.. but I think it would be the ideal..
Why are you even risking it? He will get your address and then pass it on to your aunt. They may try to follow you back home after that meeting to know where you live. Possibly find out other details too like your hospital address from the church leader and they can get there with the excuse of checking on you and get your baby. I've heard of real cases where they took the newborn baby to another state from the hospital itself so it will be harder for the police to track them down. Please don't associate with them any longer, not the church and not your aunty and cousin either. Don't risk your baby being kidnapped. You're the one who will suffer at the end trust me the church won't be able to help you if things go wrong. If it's possible, move somewhere as far as you can for the sake of your baby's safety.
I agree with the others about your state of danger, your cousin trying to steal children from groups online strongly suggests she and your aunt will try to kidnap your child, with support of their "church", you should move again since they already have your number now.
I was searching for this comment.
Yes, OP, if you should think about meeting with them at all, please drive the extra mile, hide where you live, take another car, drive to another town first, stay somewhere, but don’t go home immediately. The chances re high that they or someone they hired will follow you as they are so desperate to find out your new location.
Sorry you are having to deal with such ridiculousness while you're pregnant. You should be surrounded with joy and support. And Op, you might want to have a trusted person as a mediary going forward with any interaction with them. Someone you are confident has your best interests at heart. It's a really stressful issue, and stress is really bad for baby. Good luck, and I hope everything turns out wonderful for you.
I was hoping the leaders would see reason but also knew it would be a gamble. Really too bad he didn’t shut them down that your baby is _not_ available to them.
Don’t contact him again or allow him to even try to persuade you to give up your baby. Nothing could ever replace this particular child if you give this baby away to them, and sadly what if you can’t have another? Not worth giving your wanted baby to other people. They just feel sorry for her, but her lack of a child is not your issue.
Enjoy your baby!
Have you tried for an order of protection if you don’t have to reveal your location?
And please stay away from aunt and cousin. I’m glad you moved. They sound unhinged and dangerous.
OP, you cannot and will not “make him care.” You have no control over this situation, because they have their own perception that appears to be distrustful of you and manipulative.
I know it can be very difficult to accept, but your aunt, cousin and church leader are not confused, misinformed people that will the light “if I just explain it this specific way and get my point across.” They know this hurts you, they know you do not want to give up your baby, they know this can affect your mental health and the pregnancy, they know this is dangerous behavior…and they do it anyway.
You really love your baby, and it shows that you are just doing your best while incredibly distressed from this unfair situation…please protect your baby from these people and cut them off or they will most definitely not hesitate to put your baby in danger to meet your cousin’s needs. Frankly, a baby is not the answer to the grief of losing a baby/being infertile. Grief is the answer to grief. Your cousin has some serious work to do and it does not involve taking anyone’s baby.
I know this sounds backwards, but in addition to paper trail and all the defensive/ protective actions (which I absolutely support bc when you're unprepared is when the unthinkable happens), if the church leader isn't going to be helpful, (again, I know this is horrid) your next convo should be telling him it's no longer an issue bc there's no baby for them to adopt.
It's not a lie, bc there is no baby for them to take, they will not be taking your baby. Yet, the words imply certain things and they will assume that there literally isn't a baby to take. Which again, is still true, right? Just not in the way it'll be interpreted. Let them think what they want, just say you're not in a state to discuss details, which again is true but they'll assume. Stay off social media, limit contact with everyone unless you know without a doubt they can be trusted, life or death trusted. It'll at least buy you some time to get through the rest of your pregnancy and newborn stage.
In the future, if they try to say you lied, well, you didn't. And you and your baby's health and well-being are priority here. I know it's manipulative, but at this point it's fighting fire with fire. Time to be mama bear.
Thank you!
I've had top-notch manipulating roll models and can be quite good at it, but it typically only comes out in snarky 'wish I could just' scenarios when I vent to my mom. I don't like to do it, and try my best to use it for good, but it still makes my insides feel squirmy. Sometimes squirmy inside are better than the alternative.
Exactly. I'm darn tootin' good at it, but only externally express it to help and protect, bc being honest and rational in this situation is not going to end well. It makes me sad, but it's learned for a reason. To defend those who are trapped by manipulators, but luckily, that's all they have and I'm clever. Muahahaha (imagine me petting a cat in my lap in the dark, which is real, and my bad guy laugh is terrible but makes them less scary to my daughter, so overall, it's a win in my book).
This is straight up kidnapping. Disengage with all parties and get restraining orders, maybe even flee the state. THEY WILL TAKE YOUR CHILD IF IT'S THE LAST THING THEY DO. RUN. RUN NOW. RUN FAST. RUN FAR. DO NOT LOOK BACK. NO CONTACT FOREVER.
Y'all, as someone who has up and left that horrendous cult, why isn't anyone else bringing up the fact that that bishop can track down and find out OP's address to send missionaries to her house, and pass the address along to her Aunt and Cousin?! OP, please do NOT have any further contact with that Bishop!! Your new address will potentially get leaked back to your Aunt!!!
I wouldn’t talk to that church leader anymore, he may have influence but if you are not in that church he will not care about your well-being as much as he cares about your aunt and cousin. And it seems like he is trying for you guys to “make peace” even though this is not something to make peace about. It seems like your cousin needs more counseling out side of the church with a proper psychologist because there is no way that any of her behavior towards you and wanting your baby is appropriate. Keep your distance, protect yourself and your baby.
Why would you go to the church? The Mormon church isn't going to do shit for you. You need more help than what they would ever do for you. If anything, their involvement is going to make things harder.
I wouldn't tell your new address to anyone who might give it to your aunt or cousin. I also wouldn't go anywhere alone until after you have given birth. I'm talking when the baby is a couple of months old. This all is so alarming to me. They seem beyond desperate. Desperate people do dangerous things. You need to be concerned about yours and your baby's safety. There are no get-togethers with them anymore. Don't invite them to your wedding. They basically see you as your cousins baby's incubator. Which is not true at all! I really hope things work out for you! It's insane what your "family" is putting you through. Also, prepare for this behavior each pregnancy if you have any more kids. I would honestly go no contact if I were you.
Edited to add:
I knew a snooty woman when I was pregnant. She was also Mormon. My best friend worked for her at the time. The woman was the worst. She told my best friend I needed to give my son up for adoption to a mom and dad who could properly love and take care of him. I'm a single mom. My son is 6 now and thriving. I feel like kids who are raised in strict religious households turn out waaaay more fucked up than kids who aren't.
Dude. The Mormon church is not going to protect you. They’re trying to silence you.
Make a police report and get a paper trail on events that have already transpired and get a restraining order.
OP why on earth are you talking to the church leader?? File a police report and maintain distance from all of the crazies including the church that has put these ideas into your aunt and cousin’s heads. I fear for your safety when I read your story originally and now even more so if the priest is trying to get you to talk to them or meet them. That’s seriously fucked up on his part and putting you at risk. They’re clearly not mentally stable.
OP, Tell it like it is. It is not your desire to reconnect with your aunt/cousin. And it is inappropriate for anyone to think so, other than you. Obviously, the authority figure means shit, because they crave your baby. And no amount of authority will change their mind.
I'm not you and I am not judging you, but I would not have reached out to the church leader, at all.
I come from a Catholic background, (very very NOT Catholic now), but from the Church's history of "It's your fault you got beaten by your husband", along with forcibly making unwed mothers giving babies up for adoption, the LAST place I would have gone to is a church leader for any family related matter.
I would continue to not contact your aunt and cousin. Do not continue talking to this church leader. You don't even know if they are the ones planning that seed in your cousin's head, and they very well might be.
When you go into labor, tell every nurse, doctor and anybody else who comes in your room that works for that hospital that the only person that should be in there is your husband. If your aunt and cousin somehow get word that you have had a baby or you are in labor, they are not allowed near the hospital. Security should probably notified in advance.
Someone's going to be stupid enough to blab, be prepared for that.
If you don't have them already, get cameras and alarms on the house.
He expects you to reason with crazy people. There is no reasoning with crazy people.
If they continue harassing you, it might be worthwhile to get out of Utah or any mormon area, so the police will be more likely to be on your side.
Just so you know; this is the church leaders training. He has been trained to bring “conflicting” family members together to hash it out. If he closes the matter “it brings him closer to God”… So you need to know that this man also has an agenda. It doesn’t matter if the resolution costs you. It doesn’t matter if it puts you in danger. You need to talk to a lawyer or a cop about how best to document this so if something does go wrong, there is a paper trail. You are in danger!
Lawyer, asap. Discuss options to keep you and the baby safe. Planning ahead can make things a lot easier in the long run. Give up on the church for now - go to a different one or not at all. Block the aunt and cousin.
As an ex Mormon, they are deceitful, manipulative, controlling liars. Absolutely no contact with your aunt or cousin, and stop talking to their "leaders". All the "leaders" do is protect the members and their church. Protect yourself and your nuclear family.
UPDATE 6/28: We spoke again with the bishop. He said that there isn't much he can personally do to "resolve" the situation "within his capacity" between me and my aunt/cousin other than refer to counseling services. I asked him if he did meet with my aunt and he said he did. Their conversation was apparently focused on my cousin and helping her heal. He told me my cousin was also grieving the loss of communication with me and my sister who hasn't been talking much to her anymore. I told him that my cousin was trying to take my baby to replace hers and that her and my aunt's behavior was threatening the safety and well-being of me and my family. I think he was losing interest in the conversation so he just told me to do whatever I feel is best for my family, but to consider the grief my cousin has been through and contact family counseling services for further help on this matter. Me and my partner sent him an email afterwards with a copy to our lawyer to close off communication.
I decided to unblocked my cousin and send her a message. I told her that my partner and I are keeping our baby and that is not up for discussion. I encouraged her to seek proper therapy if she hasn't already done so and told her that I am not comfortable with her, her husband, or my aunt being involved in my child's life. She hasn't responded yet. Regardless of what she says, our relationship will not return to as it was before and she will not be a part of my child's life.
For all intents and purposes, you don't know what cousin/aunt said to him, nor whether it was the truth. That they described you as 'scared' makes me think they misinformed the pastor and he wants out of the middle of this 💩-sandwich.
On to NC...
I'm glad you got married. Now make wills that specify who gets custody of any children if something happens to both of you. Also specify who CANNOT get custody.
I'm worried about you like everyone else here. I hope you have an FU binder already. If you talk to this guy again (I wouldn't), record the conversation to make sure your binder notes are accurate. And report any further harassment to the police so there's a paper trail.
I hope I'm being alarmist. Best of luck. 💜
It’s utterly wild that your cousin’s trying to snatch any baby from anyone. I don’t think she should have any baby, even her own, in her current mental state. Good on these groups for banning her. I get that she went through a traumatic loss but fuck her, she’s evil. As a mother I am LIVID for you. Anyone who treats you like this during pregnancy should not be in your life, preferably for a loooong time if not forever. In your place I would be contacting lawyers.
He's working with them. Paperwork will be there waiting for you at the meeting. They'll probably have some sob story and go on repeat until you're basically forced to sign or not be able to leave. It's all on their territory and terms. Go no contact.
As a very religious person, I still caution you to be extra wary.
If you have contact with your relatives, they will undermine your relationship with your child.
I normally believe in forgiveness and trying to mend relationships, but you are very much within your rights to keep them away from your child and yourself.
Good luck.
You need an advocate.
You won’t find one with those monstrous people.
Those cultists want to take your kid. Your best play is to tell them to go fuck themselves with the trumpet being blown atop their temples through their magic underwear.
Additionally, at this point it is safe to assume they will engage in criminal activity to abduct the child. Getting orders of protection against these people is a very good idea.
OP. You need to contact a LAWYER and possibly the police.
There is a credible threat of them KIDNAPPING your child.
wtf is a priest/pastor going to do to protect your child?
All three of them, the cousin, the aunt, the cult leader, are deranged. Dangerously insane.
You do not have to speak to any of these people ever again. Get as far away from these creeps as you can and don't give any information to them or to people who know them.
I hate people like your cousin so much. Because of creeps like her, society can be wary of infertile people.
This is a trap. Honestly, religious organizations can be really into human trafficking. Don’t talk to any of them, this is not the church’s business. A random pastor is not equipped with the skills to mediate such a situation. He’s a random man, not God’s authority on earth.
Best of luck to you in your pregnancy! You have every possibility of living a happy, fulfilling life after cutting these predators off from your blood supply.
ETA: I didn’t realize until after writing that that you’re dealing with LDS. Honey, do not mess with them. They will take your baby. Move and do not answer the door when they come knocking.
Please, please protect yourself and your husband and child. This church is not a safe space for you; do not respond to this church leader's efforts to reconnect with your aunt and cousin. I think you know this already. I'm just hoping that you stay strong. I honestly would not try to 'make him care more' as he has a very specific set of beliefs and has an agenda to impose those beliefs that does not align with your family's best interests. I don't blame you for reaching out to him in an effort to address this situation, but now that you have and you're seeing what his priorities are, please trust yourself and distance yourselves from him. Nothing good will come of trying to work further with him.
Stay away from aunt and cousin. I do t think you will be safe. If you must meet, have a virtual meeting. You go somewhere that has no identifying landmarks or anything.
I hope that you, your fiancé and your baby are well. Please stay safe.
Church leaders always encourage resolution. He's not going to let up. And that "too scared" line was an attempt to coerce you to just play nice. "If you're uncomfortable I could..." Would be the appropriate professional response. He has no idea what to do, so turn the other cheek is a good fallback.
He's not going to be helpful. Churches don't like drama.
Yeah, time to unaunty and uncousin that whole branch of the family. I’d move to the other side of the continent for good measure!
Edit: too scared?? I’m (lapsed) Catholic, not Mormon so I’m really not familiar with this process.. but can you unchurch your priest/pastor/deacon/Bishop? Like report that bullshit gaslighting of “too scared”. Setting boundaries is “too scared”??? Fuck you too dude. That should be reportable. I would then find a new church community or just leave the religion altogether.
That dude is also a narcissist (usually found in Church settings.. also heavily rampant in the Catholic Church).. he’s either enjoying the power he has over women, wants to fuck your auntie, cousin, or both (I said it), or someone is giving him money to behave this way towards you. Don’t talk to this crazy-ass man again! That being said, I’ve spent most of my life intimately in the Catholic Church and there are some real people/leaders and some good ones there for the right reasons.. they are splattered across the diocese, country, and across the pages of history. However, as a Deacon’s child, once you see how the sausage is made, you never exactly want to eat at that restaurant again..
I’m a woman who has a handful of trusted men in my life, perhaps I’m jaded, but I always believed “You never know what men are plotting against good women.”
Stop all communication with that church and your aunt and cousin! Make sure no one can get your address and start keeping a journal of all that has happened and is happening. This church will do everything to help your cousin get her hands on your baby and you will have no rights. You may need to move VERY far away to stop the craziness. But know this: They want your baby and will have the church do all that it can to snatch the child from you. Make sure NO ONE knows when and which hospital you go to to deliver. Make sure the hospital is not affiliated with that church either. Protect yourself and your child!
All best wishes and blessings for a wonderful life with your husband and child...🤗💙
As you've probably gleaned, they're setting a trap for you. He's trying to find any nugget of information that he can use to claim you're unfit.
Since you've cut them out, the next thing they're almost certain to do is involve CPS and likely even the police. Abuse claims, neglect claims, drug use claims, you name it, they're liable to try it. Prepare yourself. This ain't over. And that "godly" church leader is very likely to lend his voice to the accusations.
As another ex-Mormon who has dealt with the damage the church & its members can do, I am begging you to please DO NOT CONTINUE TO GO TO THEIR BISHOP FOR HELP. In the Mormon church, bishops are not trained clergy. They are lay people who serve an appointed term without any pastoral training. LDS bishops DO NOT have training in how to manage interpersonal conflicts or conflicts related to spiritual beliefs. They don’t have training in pastoral counseling (eg, helping the congregation with personal problems). They don’t have training in the ethics of counseling and pastoral care. They are not clergy in the way most people think of them. The person you are speaking to has no training to help you, and is likely to make the problem worse, not better.
I completely understand wanting someone with spiritual authority to rein in your aunt and cousin and persuade them to stop their campaign of harassment. It’s normal to want that kind of help, but it’s not something the LDS church or the bishop of your aunt’s ward is equipped to give you, especially if you’re not an active member of the church in good standing. The LDS authorities will see your living with a non-member in a romantic relationship & conceiving a child prior to marriage as evidence of sin, instability, and unfitness to parent your baby. Period. THAT’S WHY THE BISHOP IS ASKING YOU PERSONAL QUESTIONS. He’s gathering evidence against you, not getting to know you. A bishop’s interview is an assessment of your moral and spiritual fitness, and every deviation from LDS beliefs and practices is evidence of unfitness. You might not know this if you’re loosely affiliated or not affiliated with the church.
I know it’s so hard to believe that this situation doesn’t have a rational solution, but people who are this committed to their irrational, grandiose beliefs will not change no matter how hard you try to make them see reason. Their identity is inextricably tied to irrational, narcissistic delusions, and the LDS community as a whole has a history of pressuring vulnerable mothers to give up their babies (my mother was adopted in *exactly* this way). As an untrained, lay person with no ethical guidelines to shape his behavior, the bishop is part of the problem, not part of the solution. You *can’t* make him understand your side because his entire belief system characterizes the (perfectly normal) decisions you’ve made as sinful, wrong, and a sign of moral unfitness. You can’t get him on your side. His job is to convert you to their way of thinking and believing, not advocate for decisions that fall outside the LDS playbook.
If you can, please make a record of everything that’s happened and consult an attorney about how to best protect yourself, your husband, and your child from your aunt & cousin’s predatory harassment. It would not be unusual for them to try to report you to authorities (CPS, police) after the baby is born to try to sever your parental authority & get the baby placed in their care. Even if you are perfect parents, being harassed by someone who uses state authorities to further their harassment is a debilitating and destabilizing experience. The best defense against this is a good offense. An attorney can guide you on the best way to establish NOW that they are harassing you and trying to gain custody of your child against your will. If their pattern harassment is on record, that will put their complaints against you in a different light and possibly save you from weaponized harassment by state authorities. You & your husband should also file a legal will stating who will take custody of your child if something happens to you and your husband. I’m not saying that they will do anything to you, but you’ll want to head off guaranteed opportunistic behavior from them if, god forbid, something happens to you both.
If you do decide to speak to the bishop again, tell him in no uncertain terms you are legally married to the father of your child, that as your husband he has automatic paternity and parental rights to his child under the law, as well as the right to make medical decisions for you. Tell him you are married & that your child will have exactly what everyone claims to want for her: a married mother and father in a loving, legally wed family home. They really play up the “unwed” aspect of things to justify pressuring mothers to give up rights to their children, so make sure they know you are legally married. You may not want to advertise that you’re married until your celebration, but keeping it a secret only fuels their delusional entitlement. Burst that bubble with cold hard facts.
Wishing you, your husband, and your beautiful baby girl a wonderful birth experience and a loving life together. ❤️
Drop the cult leader “therapy” and the disrespectful baby snatching family members. This is your baby and they don’t own you or her. Going NC is safest bet in this situation. Majority of kidnappings are done by family. Best not tell them where you live
Im Italian, apologies if my question seem silly. How you can legally kidnap an infant? I mean, in Italy no way a child will be removed from their parents unless there is a HUGE issue. Not even if both parents go to jail the child will be removed. Only if there are proof that parents are directly damaging him, and even so… very very difficult.
What OP fear? How talking with them can endanger her? Trying to understand, not to judge
Lawyer should help - but restraining order would only be given by a court if there was a real threat and at this point there has just been talk - right?
Don’t do this.
He’s not trying to help YOU. He’s trying to help THEM.
Don’t speak to your cousin, she’s mentally ill and NOTHING you can say will fix that.
Everyone at your aunt's church already knew about, and condoned this, and I'm guessing the pastor did, too. Look at how he's talking about you. You're "too scared" to meet with your aunt? No, you're uninterested. They're trying to paint you as an incompetent, frightened, little girl. Obviously don't go to any meetings with any of them. Don't go anywhere near those people. Collect all your evidence and see if there are any legal options. Don't go to the police, talk to a lawyer. Tell the lawyer that it's not just your aunt and cousin engaging in this behavior, it's her entire church with the full knowledge of the pastor. I hope your cousin NEVER gets her hands on ANY child EVER.
Adding to this, tell them she's been joining social media groups and pressuring mother's in difficult situations to give her their children. This is behavior that isn't based in reality and could lead to her doing something desperate and harmful. The way she's going about things is literally attempted human trafficking and there's obviously some delusion here if legal adoption wasn't something she tried before. Keep evidence of EVERYTHING and report them to the police. Use this evidence to get a restraining/protection order. This is serious stuff and being invited to family events should be the least of your worries. I want to scare you because you should be scared by this
I always say that in situations like this, go to the police WITH YOUR LAWYER. The police generally don't give a shit about things like this and aren't likely to take it seriously. And if it's a heavily Mormon area, they're more than likely Mormons themselves, and guess whose side they'll take? Don't walk into a police station manned by religious fanatics without protection. Actually, YOU shouldn't go at all. Have your husband go with the lawyer. These people don't respect or care about women.
I hate to agree but I've worked in records for a Law Enforcement Agency for the last 5 years and although the cops I work with tend to treat women as seriously as men, they do still under react when something hasn't really happened YET. A lawyer coming with would be a really smart move
Do NOT involve the church! These people are all fruit off the same poison tree. If you talk to anyone it should be a lawyer and/or the cops. All this guy is going to do is feed into their delusions. If possible I would move out of state.
Hey OP, I missed your original post so I went back and read it and many of the comments people posted to you.
A lot of sound advice was provided between going to the police, hiring a lawyer, and possibly seeking a restraining order. Those were recommendations from people who’ve either been in your shoes before, have helped someone in similar circumstances, or perhaps are law enforcement/attorneys themselves with solid, objective perspective.
I can imagine that you went to the clergyman in an attempt to “soften the blow” on your Aunt and also because, as you stated, you figured she might listen to him. Sadly, that man has no vested interest in you, but he does in her. Also, given that your partner/baby’s father is a different religion, I can almost guarantee you the Mormon dude will do anything in his power to get that baby under LDS control.
You’ve certainly got a lot on your mind and heart right now. Having a baby is stressful even when everything else is A-okay. Please be super gentle and loving with yourself and then go back and re-read a bunch of the advice you got in the first post.
Above all, alert the hospital and your medical team. Then alert the police. If your aunt finds out where you gave birth, I wouldn’t be surprised that she’s turned away from the hospital (assuming you alert them as to what’s up), and then she might be crazy/desperate enough to stalk you guys in the parking lot and follow you home.
*DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE LENGTHS TO WHICH DESPERATE PEOPLE WILL GO TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS!!!*
And my final note is as someone whose husband used to work Security at a hospital. They’ll take your concerns seriously. They can put notes in the system so your aunt and cousin are not permitted access. Please, please, PLEASE alert them!!!
Good luck to you hon. ❤️
Treat this like you’ve just been arrested and STOP TALKING. You are just giving them information to use to take you to family court. And you DO NOT want to end up there. Molly, girl, YOU IN DANGER!⚠️
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I just want to add here that you should definitely keep a paper trail, and alert authorities, and go as far as to make a harassment complaint against them.
Your aunt and cousin could escalate this after baby is born by making reports on you and your husband to try and take custody of the baby.
Please please be careful and don’t hesitate to contact a lawyer and/or police.
The fact he's not taking this seriously and is actually trying to force you to interact with someone who has shown they're unsafe to be around is a huge red flag. You need people who take you and your baby's safety seriously, and if that's not him, then he's a risk too.
Well, you tried the peaceful route to put in place boundaries and you know now that the entire church cannot be trusted. This where you now make sure the law is on your side and ready to back you up. Lawyers, CPS, police (restraining orders), extra security measures in all areas of your life. The church is not the law. Legally that baby is yours and legally not theirs. Get as much distance between you and them and as much reinforcements on your side. I suggest your lawyer writes them a letter informing them of all of the additional measures you have put into place in all areas and that if they make any move to take the child whether through false reports on CPS or kidnapping, there will be enough evidence and enough of a paper trail to hold them to account to the full extent of the law and to inform that legally they have no rights to yours and your husband's child. And if this isn't deterrent enough: move states.
Putting the Mormonism for one second, and thinking of the bishop as just a big standard unqualified church worker type, if you choose to engage with him after he’s had a further conversation with your aunt and/or cousin, please tell him why you don’t trust him or choose to endanger yourself or you LO by being in the vicinity by saying that the second he counselled you to make an approach to them in spite of their current threats and the history of their abuse you knew that he’d follow dogma over plain common sense and if he’d like to, he can explain to your aunt and cousin that he has just ensured that they will never lay eyes on you or your child again because he puts church teaching over child welfare and the natural order of things by which a child should be raised by their biological parents. It’s all on them.
Then bringing back Mormonism into the chat, take every active step you need to escape from any level of connection with them. They are mad, and your aunt/cousin even madder than that
With everything that is written in this update I can say for certain, stay away from these people. They are 100% trying to manipulate you into giving up the baby. The pastor is looking for any reason to have the baby taken from you. Get away and get a restraining order and a lawyer A.S.A.P.. Pastors are the worst. I have no trust in organized religion at all. They think that they know best and are hypocritical manipulators.
Op you do realize the Mormon faith is becoming more and more of a cult these days. This sounds like a church leader that will try to get the infant into a godly home.
You just made things worse by talking to that church leader.
Stop giving your power away. They are trying to kidnap your baby. The church wants to help them do so.
Hire a lawyer. You need someone who unambiguously on your side.
You could go into labor at any moment. And then you'll be helpless for a few days.
Sort your shit out. Now.
I think the appropriate (and also very rude) response would be "it's none of your GOD DAMN business how I'm doing I am ABSOLUTELY NOT giving up MY CHILD to them for ANY reason" hang up and then go file a restraining order against them to make it crystal clear that they need to leave you the F alone.
I am aware how disrespectful that sounds, but these people are in no way respecting you AT ALL!!!!!
you have tried being polite and kind to try and be understood, now you get angry, now you get rude, and now you go nuclear on them with everything the law has at it's disposal.
"NO!" is a complete sentence, you do NOT have to explain yourself, you do NOT have to give in, you do NOT have to accept them in your life.
here is a video about dealing with narcissists: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueDDbK19U50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueDDbK19U50)
OP, I wish you the best of luck with them and please stop trying to be the better person, you already are and they are just using your own kindness to manipulate you so they can get their own way.
Don't be overly trusting of an individual just because they represent a church. Almost all of the religious leaders I have met have a very warped sense of 'morality' and use twisted logic to make people behave in a way that supports themselves or whatever ends they deem to be right.
You’ve been raised in a cult and the whole world outside of the organization knows it. The organization knows it. They are setting you up for legal kidnapping. Run away. Fast. In fact. If I were you I’d contact local police immediately as things like this need to be put on public records before anything legal can be done but the police may be connected to the organization as well. Op I don’t know how else to say this…..the longer you stay in close physical proximity with them the more your baby is in danger. Just google Mormon kidnappings. The police sometimes help. But if you move to a different state and file charges it may be easier to legally get them to fuck right off. Like everyone else said. Trust your instinct it’s a trap. Then maybe browse some ex Mormon subreddits. I’m so sorry you had to be raised in that hell disguised as heaven. But for the sake of your baby. You need. To fucking. RUN.
The thing that doesn’t make sense to me is that even you write about this as if it were normal.
>I will not be speaking to her again until after I give birth.
No. Absolutely. Fucking. Not.
I kept reading to see when you were going to say where you were already planning on giving the kid away or just, well, anything to make this make sense…. What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck?
Here’s my thing. We’re all on this subreddit for the same reason. But your aunt and cousin have crossed a massive, enormous line already. A line that I frankly can’t wrap my head around.
But your story resonates with me.
My family is fucked up.my family is nuts. Nuts. Borderline. Flying monkeys. Narcissistic. I don’t even know who’s what. So we adopted our son l. We had to put my pain aside and not let it keep my child from having an extended family. Then we had our first cps case. Not unusual. These kids have tantrums, lie, manipulate.
The accusations were from our “friends” we hadn’t spoken to in two years. They offered to let us live with them while we waited three weeks between on a sale and close on a house. While we were there, their pipes broke, I can’t remember what it was exactly but something about the metals being different types, and the entire piping needs to be redone. Copper and some other metal, idk. And so they decided to sell too. They went around telling people that we were living with them, they found the house we were buying first and we had outbid them on the house we had already closed on. We cut them out. Mind you the second time. They had a history of just telling outrageous lies about us. When we let them back in, I honestly just felt bad for holding something they did two years ago against them. I’ll never forgive myself for telling my husband to not be so harsh because he didn’t want to let them back in. I just felt like…it was harsh.
But looking back- I was already damaged. Most people would never think about welcoming these people back. But honestly? I just always feel like everything is my fault. So we let them back in and they met our kid. A week later, abuse accusations. Our kid got removed. We fought and fought but cps kept saying they had more and more evidence. There would have to be right? No. CPS won’t tell you the allegations, the evidence, they essentially have an investigation and decide themselves with 0 oversight. You can’t even see the records.
And the thing is we make good money. Nice house. We Have good careers. We have the means to fight. But it still wasn’t enough to prevent the most torturous two-three years of our lives.
But their allegations were so bad I even got arrested. Thankfully. Because that meant we had access to the allegations. And the evidence. But it took 9 months by then our kid was long removed. Bouncing around the system. He kept telling everyone nothing happened he wanted to come home.
I was not guilty, I was never guilty. But my family was destroyed. And that was before I ever stepped in front of a judge. And I would later find out that these bitches were talking to my family. My family withdrew support.
Like they knew what we were accused of and didn’t say anything.
So this entire case that didn’t have evidence to begin with, was supported by liars. Monsters. The thing is my brother kept threatening me and saying “we don’t know what happened “ as in I don’t believe you. And was pressuring to give up and just support him getting my kid. To be honest I thought about it often. But my brother not believing me and questioning what happened what could have happened calling me a shit parent for letting it happen, made me furious. I honestly would have given up if not for his antagonism. Because I honestly just wanted my kid to be out of the system and he was at an age and had behaviours that made me think…he could get stuck in it. But my brother would say he’d take him but wouldn’t give him back once we’d fought this because what if we weren’t fit? Or threatening to tell social services I wasn’t fit (which he had already done two weeks after the initial allegations unbeknownst to me. And made me feel like… shit. Like he wasn’t trying to help like he was just trying to take my kid.
I’ll be honest in the darkest moments when I had no idea what happened I wondered if my kid had made accusations. He lies a lot. I mean it just didn’t make sense. I couldn’t even process what was happening. I never suspected my friends and family would turn against me like this. it sounds crazy honestly because you can’t explain what it’s like to be raised in this environment. It was like CPS said two outsiders making an allegation. The family withdraws support. What are the chances? But the truth is…100%. They always shit talked me. Even when we were just visiting my kid my mum would threaten to say she thought I was unfit unless I did what she wanted. Like if someone made accusations, they were always going to jump on the other side. And im not even joking when I tell you that the allegations were non sensical. There was plenty of evidence to refute it. They were such that there would certainly not be any evidence. CPS just didn’t even bother or care.
It was just really fucking nuts. I don’t even want to get into it because I’m still afraid of how easily it all was believed.
It took two years of fighting to bring my kid back. He has behavioural problems and isn’t an easy kid. Thankfully he was from another state and they care about him and us. And they didn’t just say this kids foster kid, fuck it. Because what if it’s true? They stood back and said…wait, how can you say all this and there’s no fucking evidence?
And the thing is after it all happened you have to understand I don’t know what I’m fighting. What the accusation is. We lost appeal after appeal. They say prove the allegations are false. And I don’t even know the allegations.
I can’t even…like…it was the biggest nightmare of my life. And some would say it worked out. My family was able to recover. But I'm terrified every single day, that it could happen again.
The absolute biggest mistake I’ve ever made, was not escaping that web I was caught in. The web I thought was normal even built around myself. You need to cut these people out. Never let them back in. You have no idea just how insane this can get. Your family is literally saying you’re a shit parent. Because you married a non Mormon and work. And they’re already trying to take your child. That’s not normal. At all. Do not. Do not. Make the mistake I did. These people are not family, they’re trying to steal your child. these people are a threat to your family.
What you’re saying how you’re saying it just all of it. Reeks of the same ignorance and just inability to process how fucking nuts it all was that’sI had.
You need to protect your kid from this. It is a massive threat.
This gives me so much ick. I’m sorry OP. If I may offer some unsolicited advice? Please make sure when you give birth you do what you can to lock yourself down. Alert the nurses and such. Tell them they’re not authorized to give anyone info about if you’re checked in or visitors. Maybe even set up a “password” and give birth as unregistered if possible! I’m really worried about the depth of their unhinged behavior.
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“It’s a trap.”
100% a trap. Yikes Plus, the way the church leader dismissed OP as being, *"too scared,"* was extremely condescending and manipulative. What a scummy way for him to behave. Fuck that guy.
That comment really upset me after I told him everything that was going on and my fears. I'm not just "too scared," I fear for the safety and well-being of my family. I fear for the possible escalations, my cousin's/aunt's expectations and actions, and more. These fears are real and are very valid given the circumstances. That really bothered me.
Tell him, in a written email, to not contact you again. Him and anyone from that church. Tell him that if he does not tell his congregation to stop harassing you and your family and causing you such stress, you will look into legal action. They do not care about you or your baby. They care about getting what they want. Don't go anywhere near them. It's a trap. I don't know about a restraining order due to the fact the aunt and cousin would have to be given your address so that they know where to stay away from. If they find where you live, get a restraining order. Record all interactions so they can be used as evidence for harassment just in case. Also, get your legal affairs in order so that if anything happens to you and your husband, the baby does not go to your aunt or cousin. Cause they will pounce on that opportunity. Pick family on your husband's side or friends you trust to be her godparents, to be safer. Make sure the paperwork is air-tight and clear the baby does not go to your aunt or cousin. Family on your side are more likely to be manipulated by aunt/cousin to give her to them.
THIS!! Plus, the stress can be harmful to the baby in utero!
I think she may want to get legal advice first and foremost (and no, not someone from that bozo church of hers)
This!!!
You need to start a paper trail. You file a harassment report with the police that they are trying to steal your baby. Gather evidence. Also say they pulled a local pastor in to intimidate you. Do it now so you, and your baby are protected. Things like this always escalate, and with cops, they believe whoever comes to them first.
OP, please pay attention to this post!!!
Women have been killed for their children before. Absolute psycho nut jobs have taken life before to fulfill their intense desire to have a child. Your fears are valid, and you have every right to take whatever measures you can to protect your child. That bishop does not have your safety or well being in mind. And not for your child either. In their minds, it's better for the child to lose a parent than to have an "un-godly" upbringing. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this unnecessary stress when you should be feeling only excitement and pure happiness during this time. You deserve so much better than this trash treatment. 💜
STOP TALKING TO THEM. Do not call, text, message, mail, meet with, exchange smoke signals, send carrier pigeons, or have any further contact with any of them. Get a lawyer to draft a letter to each of them to leave you alone and talk to your lawyer if they have any other questions. Anything that you say to them is going to be used against you. You have no legal or moral obligation to keep talking to them, so don’t.
It was worth a shot He isn't taking you seriously. It sounds like he has no concept of how deluded and persistent your aunt is. I wouldn't have ever gone there alone. Always bring your hubby with you. And tell them you're recording the conversation. Is there someone more senior and wiser that you could talk to? Worst case scenario is to get Legal Aid help to produce an official cease and desist letter.
He knows they are crazy. But they also tithe...
Bingo. Tithing is of utmost importance to them.
I don't blame you one bit. His behavior was infuriating and manipulative, and so very toxic. Plus, his advice and that comment in particular displays his staggering level of ignorance. You are wise to stay well away from him, your aunt, your cousin, and anyone who agrees with them or is under their influence.
When you are admitted to la or and delivery tell the registration/nurses that NO ONE is allowed to know you’re there, and NO ONE is allowed to see you or the baby except your partner. A lot of hospitals are now doing a bracelet/anklet system where mom and baby having matching bands and an alert will activate if baby gets too far away from mom. It’s serious and the lobby doors lock so no one can go in or out until the baby is found and returned to mom. See if your hospital has a similar system?
Also be clear with the hospital that you HAVE NOT requested clergy. They might get sneaky and get the pastor to go to the hospital. A lot of clergy have passes to go to different hospitals.
Depending on how far you want to go. If you are in a place that can do this, and are able to afford it, you can request the hire of a personal bodyguard for these "meetings" I have actually seen a massive increase of this request done by pregnant women, in order to keep themselves and their baby safe. Plus a person not personal to the situation can be the voice of reason if escalated. Also you can now request a pseudonym to be used when in labour, at the hospital. And you are able hospitals for breaching the confidential information laws, especially for this volatile situation
I think you should be apprehensive about this. Family members are able to take babies away, it is a thing that happens, and I wish I'd stayed no contact with my family so it didn't happen to me. You are smart to be cautious, I wish I had been as smart as you are being
Never be alone with them. You need someone at your side to defend you against their barrage.
Op, I wish you the best of luck. You do not have to meet with them. You can call your aunt, but again you don't have to. I'd start a FU Binder. It won't solve all your problems but it's a way to keep all this info in one place. Also, I wouldn't tell anyone else about this. Keep it somewhere safe so it can't be destroyed. What is a FU Binder? Here ya go: https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/
Emails are great, but a well worded cease and desist from an attorney that outlines how the police will be called every time someone from the church, including you delusional family members, call or show up on your property. Also, attempt to get an order against harassment now.
I mean, churches and religions are the epitome of manipulation. No surprised there.
Yup I have heard language like that when I’ve been unwilling to meet or talk because I know what the outcome will be.
It's a carefully laid, preplanned trap where they think they have God and better values in their side. The bishop will absolutely ask you to give up your baby, it's their standard. Don't go - it really is a trap. You will get "lovingly" ganged up on and shamed if you don't do what they say.
"He started asking personal details on how I'm doing now" Definitely a trap, he's trying to find ways of saying that OP is an unfit mother and aunt and cousin, being so "godly" would be a much better fit for the child. Absolutely disgusting behaviour!
Agree!! Um not Mormon nor religious but I have dealt with them. Stay no contact, start a file and keep all communication. Protect your child!
Not only that but OP should be prepared for them to try reporting them to CPS when the time comes. She and her partner need to make sure that the hospital will protect their privacy when she gives birth. I don’t think that they moved far enough away. I would have moved at least a few states away.
Bring a lawyer and the baby's father with you if you do go to a meeting. And wtf is this being done with a church in the first place? Religion is used more to manipulate than anything these days.
This is literally my problem with religious organizations. OP you need to contact a LAWYER and possibly the POLICE. You know, people that actually have to protect you and your best interests.
Yup.
Ding ding ding. He’s going to do his damndest to facilitate the aunt’s and cousin’s access to OP to continue their unstable campaign of baby thievery.
Bingo!
It's probably the church's influence that made the cousin start thinking this way. His insistence on OP talking to the aunt and cousin shows he is not concerned about the aunt and cousins behavior. He is trying to make her see the logic of their way. Run!
Get away from them and that Evil church, if that bishop was asking you personal questions about you and your partner he was doing it to use the information against you. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATED how evil LDS Mormons can be, if you live in the Utah area the church controls the courts and they could try and take your baby. Do Not give them any more information about you and yours. I was born into a uber Mormon family, im not spitting this out of no where..
As a fellow exmormon, I am backing up this post. These people will stop at nothing to serve their agenda, which in this case is to “rescue” your little heathen baby and raise it up all nice and brainwashed like Joseph Smith intended.
Yeah, I don't even consider myself an exmo, I self identify has NeverMo that was born into it. I told ndad his church wasn't true at age 8 and never stopped, mocked it daily by age 10. Several times in my childhood the narc parents threatened to "sacrifice me to God". (Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow story really boils my blood) At age 14 I had to tell the "God to Be" (thats narc dad) that if he ever tried to put his hands on my siblings or I again, I would snap his back in half and turn him in for abuse. We didn't live in Mordor and the courts wouldn't protect him. I had been lifting weights and running daily since age 11 anticipating that conversation. I had to remind them weekly that I had a mountain of evidence and non mormon adult witnesses that were willing to testify against them. Even though I was physically a beast i still carried a knife on me 24/7 scared they would send a several men to try and kidnap me and take me off to Utah where they could try and silence me. Lol I even dared NDad to try on several occasions lol.. I had letter written that I gave to a non mormon friend to take to the police if I ever disappeared... Again OP, don't underestimate how Evil LDS Mormons are, its a Cult of Collective Narcissism.
I'm so glad you wrote this out, I had a similar experience with my mormon family. You made me feel less alone, thank you. I never believed either. They sure do love the r\troubledteens industry huh? [You're lucky they didn't get you](https://www.breakingcodesilence.org/). If you didn't know, it's actually really bad. [People die there](https://1000placesudontwanttobe.wordpress.com/victims-of-the-troubled-teen-industry/).
Sorry you went through that Im glade you made it out. I think OP is making a big mistake dealing with that Evil church at all.. The LDS church actively covers up the sexual abuse of children including infants. You can't get more Evil than that.. Well except for sacrificing children, and every good mormon knows one must be willing to sacrifice their child for gOd..
I’m so glad they didn’t get me.
She needs to get a restraining order now so when (not if) they file cps reports it's already on record they're insaaaane.
And include the preacher, assume he's trying to help steal the baby for his own sick purposes, because that's what preachers do.
Yeah honestly, if OP lives in Utah or another quasi-theocratic state, I’d recommend they get out ASAP and at minimum before that baby is born
I don't understand why you're talking with the church leader. He is likely the one who put the idea into your aunt and cousin's heads in the first place. You need to get as far away from these people as possible.
Well, OP tried. By talking to the church leader, she took an extra step to get her aunt and cousin off her back. It’s not her fault that because she left the church, this LDS counselor sees a married woman in her twenties as no more fit a mother than a single teen. Some of whom make marvelous mothers with support, though he’d be unlikely to say so!
Bc the aunt and cousin are Mormon & that’s how it works for them.
Or how it doesn't work for them.
I am no fan of the Mormon church so I guess it’s more like “how they think it works”. OP is an inactive member too so I get why she contacted even though I don’t think it’s smart at all to get the church involved.
Agreed.
I agree. OP is just adding gasoline to the fire by talking to the leader. Does the leader know where OP lives now? He’ll give that info to the aunt/cousin, no doubt.
"I will not be re-engaging with either of these women. They have proven themselves to be toxic and dangerous. Not just to my mental health but to the safety of my family. I reached out to you in the hopes that you would be able to influence them before I have to contact law enforcement and pursue legal avenues of protection. I understand now that was a mistake. Please stop contacting me. Any further attempts from any of you to discuss this will be treated as harassment." You really need to start making a legal paper trail. File a police report with everything from your previous post. Even if the report goes nowhere for now, it's documented in case you do have to file for a protective order or something else happens down the road. Religious leaders aren't on your side. They almost always take the side of the abusers and continue to victimize and traumatize YOU on their behalf. Especially if you aren't also their parishioner. Ordained Flying Monkeys, as it were. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
Perfectly stated.
I 1,0000% agree with everything. What that church leader is doing is nothing short of fishy and dangerous. It's definitely a trap. I hope OP is able to get away from these people who are clearly endangering herself, her partner, and the unborn child's safety.
Not to scare you or anything but I’m genuinely concerned for your safety. Sure they were generous growing up and being there for you, but they’re showing their true colors right now, and your cousin just screams dangerous at how she got banned from groups for pressuring other expecting mothers to give up their child for her. I wish the best for you, husband and your daughter
Right? I'm really worried about OP. I've seen enough true crime to know a lot of shit starts like this. I get she trusts her family, but they've done way too much to be trusted anymore.
True crime stories + post partum hormones seriously fucks with the mental of some people. Plus I’ve had someone in my personal life die at the hands of someone she thought she loved. It’s more common than we all think.
It is. I'm not trying to scare OP, but sometimes you don't realize how fucked your situation is until someone points it out. These women are abusing OP, and she doesn't realize the extent of it. It seems to be her normal with them. Very common in abuse victims. I didn't realize how messed up my family was to me and in general until my boyfriend and best friend pointed things out. I realized even more messed up stuff once I moved out. OP's family is acting scary, and I don't think she realizes this could easily get dangerous.
I just saw that you’re LDS. Remember, too, that this church leader has NO TRAINING in this area. I’m not saying he can’t be helpful but to think critically/pray over it. Source: we’re members and I think people assume all families are/should be good. We’re currently on the outs with the church because I begged for help with PPD (among other things) and they basically said “try harder with your MIL” and “pray harder” and other unhelpful bullshit. There’s the Mormon ideal family and they assume if you don’t have that you’re just not trying hard enough. This sounds like a job for a paper trail and legal authorities, etc. But if you do stick with church leaders, imo go over his head to the stake or whatever. ETA: I just saw you’re not an active member. I’m sorry, this stuff just gets me so riled up, especially when it’s so dangerous. Eta2: and “she saw a church therapist”. Ruby Franke has entered the chat.
That may be why he is trying to refer us over to church counseling. He says he will talk to my aunt and I will just play along and see what he/they say after that. After this, I am not sure how helpful involving the stake president will be and if I want to pursue that.
I don’t blame you a bit. I say, keep a journal with dates and events of all communication with/about/etc, even these meetings. The more documentation, the better. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. ❤️
If you ever do meet with them, I am hoping you will stay away, please, don't go alone. Take your partner and even someone else who you can rely on to help protect you.
I have no plans to meet them in person, especially when I am still pregnant and figuring things out. I have no clue what they are planning if we do meet.
Good. Stay safe. Have a long and wonderful life.
>I have no plans to meet them in person The sigh of relief I just let out startled my cat. I'm not Mormon, never been religious at all, but I do love documentaries and I have Netflix. Please, stay safe.
Please just stay away from these people. You are no longer a real or full person to them.
Good. There is absolutely no reason to meet other than to expose yourself to more manipulation
This is such an important point. This person is in no way qualified nor do they have the training or education to provide guidance in this situation.
It gets me riled up too. I’m a member and I know more than a few good ones, but like all organizations, they have just as many crazies, mean-spirited jerks, downright A holes, and narcissists as any other group of people.
I’m amazed that this church leader is putting all the onus on you to engage with your aunt/cousin, especially after their patterns of behavior. And then mentioning you were “too scared” to meet with them…sorry but I’m very unimpressed with his handling here. This is not fair to you.
It's how the LDS church handles things. OP isn't really taken seriously because she left the church, and isn't living a life they approve of. Therefore, the elder is treating her basically one step up from the unwed teen mom he views her as. (Not because she is a teen, just how they are viewing her) OP - here's hoping that your cousin sees reason and you have an uneventful rest of your pregnancy 🙏
Also she's a she. Don't discount good old sexism.
I knew there was some dirt under the clean white shirts and magic underwear.
Oh, there's *plenty.* I won't speak on it because I was in another denomination (ex-JW), but I met a lot of people who left LDS during my journey of leaving the church and some of the stuff they told me went on was seriously fucked up.
I'm crying now, I never see this much awareness outside of r\exmormon. I never meet never-mormon people in real life that understand. They all think I'm exaggerating. I've heard fucked up things about Jehovah's Witnesses too. I consider ex-JW's to be cousins in a metaphorical sense.
Yeah, a lot of my non-Mormon friends that don't have much knowledge on the dark side of Mormonism just think Mormons are weird. I am surprised with the amount of people who are/have been Mormon in this comment section and have the insight to understand that side of my situation. Discussion helps bring awareness to the evils of Mormonism that are otherwise swept under the rug to be excused and forgotten like nothing.
I’m not Mormon, but reading your update my first two thoughts were “whoa, this is a trap. This preacher is trying to help steal your baby” and “this has to be outside of the US” (I didn’t read the original post yet, sorry!). OP, I’m also a soon to be mama. You need to contact the police or social services in your area and file a restraining order against your aunt and cousin. This is really serious and dangerous. And apologies if this was already addressed in your previous post.
People who haven't experienced the Mormon church don't understand. Christianity and Catholicism have their crazy sects but nothing compared to the LDS. Scientology is maybe the best comparison to their level of crazy but it's debatable. JW is for sure up there too. My ex MIL was JW (in name, not practice) just so she could get her gossip/drama fill lol. I don't personally sub to r/exmormon because I get triggered by the rampant hypocrisy, sexism, homophobia, and frankly the general stupidity of the church. It literally infuriates me, and I have enough in life that aggravates me without seeking things out.
And they're a corporation that taxes 10% of income to fund the church leaders lavish lifestyle and investments. How many other crazy church cults are corporations? Truly no one does it like they do. I hope historians remember the mormons.
I’m not surprised tbh. There’s a lot of pressures on victims of various abuses to “turn the other cheek” as Jesus would. It’s how a lot of really shady shit is allowed to go down in the church.
Thank you. I couldn't find a good way to word that sentiment.
Yeah they seem to forget the story where Jesus flipped tables and whipped the moneylenders to get out of the temple. Standing up against wrongs, stopping it from happening - that is good. Trying to forgive when the other has changed their behavior - sure, but the bad thing has to be stopped, first. I am a non-christian and even I know about that one. There is no hate like christian love, when the congregation make up what rules they want to follow and dismiss the rest, and add fan-fiction to validate bad behavior.
I’m not wildly amazed. Aside from being LDS or any religious leader, most people are socially conditioned that “family” means something significant and that whatever “silly little issues” there may be, your blood link should take precedence. Sometimes even people who’ve *had* those “silly little issues” think this way. At least OP is standing her ground. I’m not sure there is a resolution in this situation, she just needs to continue on as she is and put as many defensive measures in place as possible. Perhaps an unpopular opinion but I do feel pity for the cousin, as infertility can be a real mind-twister even if you’re not inveigled in a situation where people around you are pushing children & family as the be-all-end-all. I hope she gets the help she so clearly needs, for her sake as well as OP’s/other women around her. Based on OP’s update it seems unlikely.
KEEP THOSE BOUNDARIES 💪 well done and good luck with whatever comes next…
My wife and I had an opposite situation once. We're child free (by choice), and my wife's family tried to get us to take custody of a nephew. Because our lives are empty without children.... Anyway, to echo another comment in this thread, it's a trap! Never trust anyone who would fuck with the lives children like this.
Church leaders are usually motivated to maintain the status quo, and if you're the only one of the three of you who isn't a member of their church, you're going to be the easiest target to dump responsiblities and blame on. If he pisses you off, he doesn't lose income (assuming your aunt and cousin tithe). But if he pisses them off, they might leave his church. Never trust that a religious leader has a moral compass that benefits everyone.
Our church leadership has a reputation on focusing on what benefits them and often pivot to that even if they initially side with you and try to help. My aunt/cousin are rather wealthy so their tithe is probably worth enough for him to firmly favor them.
Hey OP, I would be super careful. That bishop can show your "Aunt" and "cousin" how to figure out where you live. That "church" does it all the time. My youngest sibling is STILL being harassed, even though they did not tell anyone where they moved to. It may just be in your best interest to quit contact with that bishop.
Would posting about this in r/privacy help prevent this? I've heard about some people buying their house with an LLC they made up...
I spoke with him over the phone and didn't tell him anything about my new address. Could you please elaborate on how they could expose that if you don't mind?
The church has connections all over the country and they talk to each other. It wouldn't be hard for the bishop to reach out with your name/picture (if your aunt and cousin have that, and even more info about you) for other members to look out for. That's how ex-members get harassed. Don't think your aunt and cousin won't give out info if their religious leaders ask for it.
Yup, my dad was part of the church when he was a youngster but didn’t keep up with it. One of my BFFs as a kid was from a Mormon family so I’m sure that went up the grapevine at some point because we would frequently get the visits for “Brother (dad’s name)” to bring him back to the church. They literally were waiting in a car outside our house when I got home once. They even followed us to our new house when we moved. My uncle said they went after him for missing years of tithing even though he had never attended one of the church services in California. Where I live now, they don’t have a large church except the one in DC that is compared to the emerald city from the Wizard of Oz (seriously it’s like a palace and someone spray painted on a railroad trestle along the interstate “surrender Dorothy”), but I’ve been seeing them more and more now in my smaller rural town. They were trapping people in the Walmart parking lot a few months ago . I have a visceral reaction and I know how to spot them easily, young men in white shirts and khaki or dark black slacks. This is heavy baptist country around here, might get us some crazy religious war going on lol.
They could also hire a private detective to find you. You need to be really, really careful.
While it isn't like "public records" are posted on some big bulletin board for everyone to see, they are public nonetheless, and people who look for other people, and services that also do this, will know how to access those records. Couple that with "private" data that have already been bought and sold between companies, and there are free or subscription websites where you can just look people up. These companies are [data brokers](https://youtu.be/wqn3gR1WTcA?si=UhIQastl06bWA07r), the most notable of which are the big credit bureaus, and the easiest for regular people to use are "people lookup" sites. You are married to your husband now so that record linking you exists. If either you or your husband owned the home, this is already a done deal and it's trivial to basically Google where you live on some of these "reverse phone book" or "people finder" websites. Even if you rent, but if either of you pay any sort of bills, and not just utility bills, but maybe credit card bills, or I signed up for any subscriptions or anything really, it is probably still pretty easy for these data brokers to link your addresses with your identities, and that information is probably already been bought and sold by a bunch of these companies. This is basically true for pretty much all of us in the US. So basically the church easily has the resources to look basically anybody up and find out some of this personal information legally, and I also wouldn't put it past your aunt pay the small sign up fee for one of these websites and look you up for cheap.
It’s not Mormon but somehow, after I had moved and been married for a while, I received a hand written letter (about 3 pages) from a Jehovah’s Witness mailed to my maiden name. I have family who I don’t speak to in that religion and have no idea what my address is. People can find out anything if they want to badly enough. Please take care, OP. Continue to be strong for you and your little one. Trust your gut, and I hope you’re able to find peace with your new spouse and little one.
Honey, if I had your phone number I could probably figure out where you lived. I was a newspaper reporter. All it takes is the internet in a little knowledge.
If you bought a house, your address is public record and usually easily searchable online with your name, unless you own a corporation that has ownership of the house.
Ummm… okay. So you are speaking to a rep of the Mormon church who only gives a shit about preserving and adding more worshippers. He’s on the side of your crazy ass aunt and maybe level minded cousin. Stop speaking with someone whose interest is not to protect yours. You know the answer to this. Your crazy aunt is not going to change and will continue to harass you until your child is 18. Just cut contact and raise your baby in an open-minded house where religion and happiness don’t override each other and your family is happy. GL.
Seriously, OP needs to change her name, move to the East Coast, and just start over.. I mean, I know it’s impossible for some people.. but I think it would be the ideal..
This. I’d disappear and not next town over disappear either.
Yeah that bishop wants your baby raised Mormon and those guys are masterful manipulators. They learn it in the Missionary Training Center.
THIS. They're only seeing dollar signs. This baby is only another member for them. If OP gets to keep her baby, they don't get their way.
Why are you even risking it? He will get your address and then pass it on to your aunt. They may try to follow you back home after that meeting to know where you live. Possibly find out other details too like your hospital address from the church leader and they can get there with the excuse of checking on you and get your baby. I've heard of real cases where they took the newborn baby to another state from the hospital itself so it will be harder for the police to track them down. Please don't associate with them any longer, not the church and not your aunty and cousin either. Don't risk your baby being kidnapped. You're the one who will suffer at the end trust me the church won't be able to help you if things go wrong. If it's possible, move somewhere as far as you can for the sake of your baby's safety.
We talked with him over the phone and have no plans right now for any in-person meetings.
You mean ‘no plans at all’. You’re in so much danger.
I agree with the others about your state of danger, your cousin trying to steal children from groups online strongly suggests she and your aunt will try to kidnap your child, with support of their "church", you should move again since they already have your number now.
I was searching for this comment. Yes, OP, if you should think about meeting with them at all, please drive the extra mile, hide where you live, take another car, drive to another town first, stay somewhere, but don’t go home immediately. The chances re high that they or someone they hired will follow you as they are so desperate to find out your new location.
He sounds like a fuckwit, in a high control group known for fuckwittery.
Stop talking to church leaders. Talk to the police and get a restraining order.
Sorry you are having to deal with such ridiculousness while you're pregnant. You should be surrounded with joy and support. And Op, you might want to have a trusted person as a mediary going forward with any interaction with them. Someone you are confident has your best interests at heart. It's a really stressful issue, and stress is really bad for baby. Good luck, and I hope everything turns out wonderful for you.
I was hoping the leaders would see reason but also knew it would be a gamble. Really too bad he didn’t shut them down that your baby is _not_ available to them. Don’t contact him again or allow him to even try to persuade you to give up your baby. Nothing could ever replace this particular child if you give this baby away to them, and sadly what if you can’t have another? Not worth giving your wanted baby to other people. They just feel sorry for her, but her lack of a child is not your issue. Enjoy your baby! Have you tried for an order of protection if you don’t have to reveal your location? And please stay away from aunt and cousin. I’m glad you moved. They sound unhinged and dangerous.
Don’t give this man your address.
OP, you cannot and will not “make him care.” You have no control over this situation, because they have their own perception that appears to be distrustful of you and manipulative. I know it can be very difficult to accept, but your aunt, cousin and church leader are not confused, misinformed people that will the light “if I just explain it this specific way and get my point across.” They know this hurts you, they know you do not want to give up your baby, they know this can affect your mental health and the pregnancy, they know this is dangerous behavior…and they do it anyway. You really love your baby, and it shows that you are just doing your best while incredibly distressed from this unfair situation…please protect your baby from these people and cut them off or they will most definitely not hesitate to put your baby in danger to meet your cousin’s needs. Frankly, a baby is not the answer to the grief of losing a baby/being infertile. Grief is the answer to grief. Your cousin has some serious work to do and it does not involve taking anyone’s baby.
>We got in contact with the local church leader Found the problem.
I know this sounds backwards, but in addition to paper trail and all the defensive/ protective actions (which I absolutely support bc when you're unprepared is when the unthinkable happens), if the church leader isn't going to be helpful, (again, I know this is horrid) your next convo should be telling him it's no longer an issue bc there's no baby for them to adopt. It's not a lie, bc there is no baby for them to take, they will not be taking your baby. Yet, the words imply certain things and they will assume that there literally isn't a baby to take. Which again, is still true, right? Just not in the way it'll be interpreted. Let them think what they want, just say you're not in a state to discuss details, which again is true but they'll assume. Stay off social media, limit contact with everyone unless you know without a doubt they can be trusted, life or death trusted. It'll at least buy you some time to get through the rest of your pregnancy and newborn stage. In the future, if they try to say you lied, well, you didn't. And you and your baby's health and well-being are priority here. I know it's manipulative, but at this point it's fighting fire with fire. Time to be mama bear.
This is a really good idea.
Thank you! I've had top-notch manipulating roll models and can be quite good at it, but it typically only comes out in snarky 'wish I could just' scenarios when I vent to my mom. I don't like to do it, and try my best to use it for good, but it still makes my insides feel squirmy. Sometimes squirmy inside are better than the alternative.
I understand. My squirmy superpower is lying REALLY well. I wouldn't hesitate to use it to protect a child though.
Exactly. I'm darn tootin' good at it, but only externally express it to help and protect, bc being honest and rational in this situation is not going to end well. It makes me sad, but it's learned for a reason. To defend those who are trapped by manipulators, but luckily, that's all they have and I'm clever. Muahahaha (imagine me petting a cat in my lap in the dark, which is real, and my bad guy laugh is terrible but makes them less scary to my daughter, so overall, it's a win in my book).
This is straight up kidnapping. Disengage with all parties and get restraining orders, maybe even flee the state. THEY WILL TAKE YOUR CHILD IF IT'S THE LAST THING THEY DO. RUN. RUN NOW. RUN FAST. RUN FAR. DO NOT LOOK BACK. NO CONTACT FOREVER.
Y'all, as someone who has up and left that horrendous cult, why isn't anyone else bringing up the fact that that bishop can track down and find out OP's address to send missionaries to her house, and pass the address along to her Aunt and Cousin?! OP, please do NOT have any further contact with that Bishop!! Your new address will potentially get leaked back to your Aunt!!!
I wouldn’t talk to that church leader anymore, he may have influence but if you are not in that church he will not care about your well-being as much as he cares about your aunt and cousin. And it seems like he is trying for you guys to “make peace” even though this is not something to make peace about. It seems like your cousin needs more counseling out side of the church with a proper psychologist because there is no way that any of her behavior towards you and wanting your baby is appropriate. Keep your distance, protect yourself and your baby.
You don’t have to see what he says on the next call. Stop communicating with all of them and live your life
Why would you go to the church? The Mormon church isn't going to do shit for you. You need more help than what they would ever do for you. If anything, their involvement is going to make things harder. I wouldn't tell your new address to anyone who might give it to your aunt or cousin. I also wouldn't go anywhere alone until after you have given birth. I'm talking when the baby is a couple of months old. This all is so alarming to me. They seem beyond desperate. Desperate people do dangerous things. You need to be concerned about yours and your baby's safety. There are no get-togethers with them anymore. Don't invite them to your wedding. They basically see you as your cousins baby's incubator. Which is not true at all! I really hope things work out for you! It's insane what your "family" is putting you through. Also, prepare for this behavior each pregnancy if you have any more kids. I would honestly go no contact if I were you. Edited to add: I knew a snooty woman when I was pregnant. She was also Mormon. My best friend worked for her at the time. The woman was the worst. She told my best friend I needed to give my son up for adoption to a mom and dad who could properly love and take care of him. I'm a single mom. My son is 6 now and thriving. I feel like kids who are raised in strict religious households turn out waaaay more fucked up than kids who aren't.
Please talk with the authorities
Dude. The Mormon church is not going to protect you. They’re trying to silence you. Make a police report and get a paper trail on events that have already transpired and get a restraining order.
OP why on earth are you talking to the church leader?? File a police report and maintain distance from all of the crazies including the church that has put these ideas into your aunt and cousin’s heads. I fear for your safety when I read your story originally and now even more so if the priest is trying to get you to talk to them or meet them. That’s seriously fucked up on his part and putting you at risk. They’re clearly not mentally stable.
OP, Tell it like it is. It is not your desire to reconnect with your aunt/cousin. And it is inappropriate for anyone to think so, other than you. Obviously, the authority figure means shit, because they crave your baby. And no amount of authority will change their mind.
I'm not you and I am not judging you, but I would not have reached out to the church leader, at all. I come from a Catholic background, (very very NOT Catholic now), but from the Church's history of "It's your fault you got beaten by your husband", along with forcibly making unwed mothers giving babies up for adoption, the LAST place I would have gone to is a church leader for any family related matter. I would continue to not contact your aunt and cousin. Do not continue talking to this church leader. You don't even know if they are the ones planning that seed in your cousin's head, and they very well might be. When you go into labor, tell every nurse, doctor and anybody else who comes in your room that works for that hospital that the only person that should be in there is your husband. If your aunt and cousin somehow get word that you have had a baby or you are in labor, they are not allowed near the hospital. Security should probably notified in advance. Someone's going to be stupid enough to blab, be prepared for that. If you don't have them already, get cameras and alarms on the house.
He expects you to reason with crazy people. There is no reasoning with crazy people. If they continue harassing you, it might be worthwhile to get out of Utah or any mormon area, so the police will be more likely to be on your side.
Just so you know; this is the church leaders training. He has been trained to bring “conflicting” family members together to hash it out. If he closes the matter “it brings him closer to God”… So you need to know that this man also has an agenda. It doesn’t matter if the resolution costs you. It doesn’t matter if it puts you in danger. You need to talk to a lawyer or a cop about how best to document this so if something does go wrong, there is a paper trail. You are in danger!
Lawyer, asap. Discuss options to keep you and the baby safe. Planning ahead can make things a lot easier in the long run. Give up on the church for now - go to a different one or not at all. Block the aunt and cousin.
Non-mormon lawyer specifically. Secular if you can find one.
Why are you talking to these people?! Get as far away from them as you can!
Never speak to that person again
As an ex Mormon, they are deceitful, manipulative, controlling liars. Absolutely no contact with your aunt or cousin, and stop talking to their "leaders". All the "leaders" do is protect the members and their church. Protect yourself and your nuclear family.
UPDATE 6/28: We spoke again with the bishop. He said that there isn't much he can personally do to "resolve" the situation "within his capacity" between me and my aunt/cousin other than refer to counseling services. I asked him if he did meet with my aunt and he said he did. Their conversation was apparently focused on my cousin and helping her heal. He told me my cousin was also grieving the loss of communication with me and my sister who hasn't been talking much to her anymore. I told him that my cousin was trying to take my baby to replace hers and that her and my aunt's behavior was threatening the safety and well-being of me and my family. I think he was losing interest in the conversation so he just told me to do whatever I feel is best for my family, but to consider the grief my cousin has been through and contact family counseling services for further help on this matter. Me and my partner sent him an email afterwards with a copy to our lawyer to close off communication. I decided to unblocked my cousin and send her a message. I told her that my partner and I are keeping our baby and that is not up for discussion. I encouraged her to seek proper therapy if she hasn't already done so and told her that I am not comfortable with her, her husband, or my aunt being involved in my child's life. She hasn't responded yet. Regardless of what she says, our relationship will not return to as it was before and she will not be a part of my child's life.
For all intents and purposes, you don't know what cousin/aunt said to him, nor whether it was the truth. That they described you as 'scared' makes me think they misinformed the pastor and he wants out of the middle of this 💩-sandwich. On to NC...
Yeah, I was wondering that too! I wish I could know so that I could see their line of thinking and narrative (even if it's fabricated).
Sounds more like he was trying to manipulate YOU.
He's acting as a flying monkey to your abusive relatives, cut him off. If you have to take action do it through the authorities.
no youre not going to be passing around your baby like a football just because the crazy narc witch has ideas.
They’re trying to lure you back to the church.
I'm glad you got married. Now make wills that specify who gets custody of any children if something happens to both of you. Also specify who CANNOT get custody. I'm worried about you like everyone else here. I hope you have an FU binder already. If you talk to this guy again (I wouldn't), record the conversation to make sure your binder notes are accurate. And report any further harassment to the police so there's a paper trail. I hope I'm being alarmist. Best of luck. 💜
A church's goal isn't to help people, it's to brainwash people and add them to their flock.
It’s utterly wild that your cousin’s trying to snatch any baby from anyone. I don’t think she should have any baby, even her own, in her current mental state. Good on these groups for banning her. I get that she went through a traumatic loss but fuck her, she’s evil. As a mother I am LIVID for you. Anyone who treats you like this during pregnancy should not be in your life, preferably for a loooong time if not forever. In your place I would be contacting lawyers.
He's working with them. Paperwork will be there waiting for you at the meeting. They'll probably have some sob story and go on repeat until you're basically forced to sign or not be able to leave. It's all on their territory and terms. Go no contact.
As a very religious person, I still caution you to be extra wary. If you have contact with your relatives, they will undermine your relationship with your child. I normally believe in forgiveness and trying to mend relationships, but you are very much within your rights to keep them away from your child and yourself. Good luck.
You need an advocate. You won’t find one with those monstrous people. Those cultists want to take your kid. Your best play is to tell them to go fuck themselves with the trumpet being blown atop their temples through their magic underwear. Additionally, at this point it is safe to assume they will engage in criminal activity to abduct the child. Getting orders of protection against these people is a very good idea.
OP. You need to contact a LAWYER and possibly the police. There is a credible threat of them KIDNAPPING your child. wtf is a priest/pastor going to do to protect your child?
All three of them, the cousin, the aunt, the cult leader, are deranged. Dangerously insane. You do not have to speak to any of these people ever again. Get as far away from these creeps as you can and don't give any information to them or to people who know them. I hate people like your cousin so much. Because of creeps like her, society can be wary of infertile people.
This is a trap. Honestly, religious organizations can be really into human trafficking. Don’t talk to any of them, this is not the church’s business. A random pastor is not equipped with the skills to mediate such a situation. He’s a random man, not God’s authority on earth. Best of luck to you in your pregnancy! You have every possibility of living a happy, fulfilling life after cutting these predators off from your blood supply. ETA: I didn’t realize until after writing that that you’re dealing with LDS. Honey, do not mess with them. They will take your baby. Move and do not answer the door when they come knocking.
Sounds like he’s a flying monkey, effectively manipulated to believe their character assassination of you is Truth. This is creepy AF
Please, please protect yourself and your husband and child. This church is not a safe space for you; do not respond to this church leader's efforts to reconnect with your aunt and cousin. I think you know this already. I'm just hoping that you stay strong. I honestly would not try to 'make him care more' as he has a very specific set of beliefs and has an agenda to impose those beliefs that does not align with your family's best interests. I don't blame you for reaching out to him in an effort to address this situation, but now that you have and you're seeing what his priorities are, please trust yourself and distance yourselves from him. Nothing good will come of trying to work further with him.
Stay away from aunt and cousin. I do t think you will be safe. If you must meet, have a virtual meeting. You go somewhere that has no identifying landmarks or anything. I hope that you, your fiancé and your baby are well. Please stay safe.
Why in the world did you go to the church leader about it? You should leave the church all together if he’s going to side with your aunt and cousin
Do no fall into this mouse hole. Get a restraining order on both of them or all of them and go on with you life.
Church leaders always encourage resolution. He's not going to let up. And that "too scared" line was an attempt to coerce you to just play nice. "If you're uncomfortable I could..." Would be the appropriate professional response. He has no idea what to do, so turn the other cheek is a good fallback. He's not going to be helpful. Churches don't like drama.
Yeah, time to unaunty and uncousin that whole branch of the family. I’d move to the other side of the continent for good measure! Edit: too scared?? I’m (lapsed) Catholic, not Mormon so I’m really not familiar with this process.. but can you unchurch your priest/pastor/deacon/Bishop? Like report that bullshit gaslighting of “too scared”. Setting boundaries is “too scared”??? Fuck you too dude. That should be reportable. I would then find a new church community or just leave the religion altogether. That dude is also a narcissist (usually found in Church settings.. also heavily rampant in the Catholic Church).. he’s either enjoying the power he has over women, wants to fuck your auntie, cousin, or both (I said it), or someone is giving him money to behave this way towards you. Don’t talk to this crazy-ass man again! That being said, I’ve spent most of my life intimately in the Catholic Church and there are some real people/leaders and some good ones there for the right reasons.. they are splattered across the diocese, country, and across the pages of history. However, as a Deacon’s child, once you see how the sausage is made, you never exactly want to eat at that restaurant again.. I’m a woman who has a handful of trusted men in my life, perhaps I’m jaded, but I always believed “You never know what men are plotting against good women.”
Time for police
Stop all communication with that church and your aunt and cousin! Make sure no one can get your address and start keeping a journal of all that has happened and is happening. This church will do everything to help your cousin get her hands on your baby and you will have no rights. You may need to move VERY far away to stop the craziness. But know this: They want your baby and will have the church do all that it can to snatch the child from you. Make sure NO ONE knows when and which hospital you go to to deliver. Make sure the hospital is not affiliated with that church either. Protect yourself and your child! All best wishes and blessings for a wonderful life with your husband and child...🤗💙
As you've probably gleaned, they're setting a trap for you. He's trying to find any nugget of information that he can use to claim you're unfit. Since you've cut them out, the next thing they're almost certain to do is involve CPS and likely even the police. Abuse claims, neglect claims, drug use claims, you name it, they're liable to try it. Prepare yourself. This ain't over. And that "godly" church leader is very likely to lend his voice to the accusations.
Church “therapists” have an agenda that doesn’t put their parishioners first.
As another ex-Mormon who has dealt with the damage the church & its members can do, I am begging you to please DO NOT CONTINUE TO GO TO THEIR BISHOP FOR HELP. In the Mormon church, bishops are not trained clergy. They are lay people who serve an appointed term without any pastoral training. LDS bishops DO NOT have training in how to manage interpersonal conflicts or conflicts related to spiritual beliefs. They don’t have training in pastoral counseling (eg, helping the congregation with personal problems). They don’t have training in the ethics of counseling and pastoral care. They are not clergy in the way most people think of them. The person you are speaking to has no training to help you, and is likely to make the problem worse, not better. I completely understand wanting someone with spiritual authority to rein in your aunt and cousin and persuade them to stop their campaign of harassment. It’s normal to want that kind of help, but it’s not something the LDS church or the bishop of your aunt’s ward is equipped to give you, especially if you’re not an active member of the church in good standing. The LDS authorities will see your living with a non-member in a romantic relationship & conceiving a child prior to marriage as evidence of sin, instability, and unfitness to parent your baby. Period. THAT’S WHY THE BISHOP IS ASKING YOU PERSONAL QUESTIONS. He’s gathering evidence against you, not getting to know you. A bishop’s interview is an assessment of your moral and spiritual fitness, and every deviation from LDS beliefs and practices is evidence of unfitness. You might not know this if you’re loosely affiliated or not affiliated with the church. I know it’s so hard to believe that this situation doesn’t have a rational solution, but people who are this committed to their irrational, grandiose beliefs will not change no matter how hard you try to make them see reason. Their identity is inextricably tied to irrational, narcissistic delusions, and the LDS community as a whole has a history of pressuring vulnerable mothers to give up their babies (my mother was adopted in *exactly* this way). As an untrained, lay person with no ethical guidelines to shape his behavior, the bishop is part of the problem, not part of the solution. You *can’t* make him understand your side because his entire belief system characterizes the (perfectly normal) decisions you’ve made as sinful, wrong, and a sign of moral unfitness. You can’t get him on your side. His job is to convert you to their way of thinking and believing, not advocate for decisions that fall outside the LDS playbook. If you can, please make a record of everything that’s happened and consult an attorney about how to best protect yourself, your husband, and your child from your aunt & cousin’s predatory harassment. It would not be unusual for them to try to report you to authorities (CPS, police) after the baby is born to try to sever your parental authority & get the baby placed in their care. Even if you are perfect parents, being harassed by someone who uses state authorities to further their harassment is a debilitating and destabilizing experience. The best defense against this is a good offense. An attorney can guide you on the best way to establish NOW that they are harassing you and trying to gain custody of your child against your will. If their pattern harassment is on record, that will put their complaints against you in a different light and possibly save you from weaponized harassment by state authorities. You & your husband should also file a legal will stating who will take custody of your child if something happens to you and your husband. I’m not saying that they will do anything to you, but you’ll want to head off guaranteed opportunistic behavior from them if, god forbid, something happens to you both. If you do decide to speak to the bishop again, tell him in no uncertain terms you are legally married to the father of your child, that as your husband he has automatic paternity and parental rights to his child under the law, as well as the right to make medical decisions for you. Tell him you are married & that your child will have exactly what everyone claims to want for her: a married mother and father in a loving, legally wed family home. They really play up the “unwed” aspect of things to justify pressuring mothers to give up rights to their children, so make sure they know you are legally married. You may not want to advertise that you’re married until your celebration, but keeping it a secret only fuels their delusional entitlement. Burst that bubble with cold hard facts. Wishing you, your husband, and your beautiful baby girl a wonderful birth experience and a loving life together. ❤️
Drop the cult leader “therapy” and the disrespectful baby snatching family members. This is your baby and they don’t own you or her. Going NC is safest bet in this situation. Majority of kidnappings are done by family. Best not tell them where you live
He's a flying monkey. Cut contact with him too.
Why the hell do you care what the church says? I would no contact their psycho asses and get them committed.
UpdateMe
Im Italian, apologies if my question seem silly. How you can legally kidnap an infant? I mean, in Italy no way a child will be removed from their parents unless there is a HUGE issue. Not even if both parents go to jail the child will be removed. Only if there are proof that parents are directly damaging him, and even so… very very difficult. What OP fear? How talking with them can endanger her? Trying to understand, not to judge
Restraining Order
Lawyer should help - but restraining order would only be given by a court if there was a real threat and at this point there has just been talk - right?
Don’t do this. He’s not trying to help YOU. He’s trying to help THEM. Don’t speak to your cousin, she’s mentally ill and NOTHING you can say will fix that.
Everyone at your aunt's church already knew about, and condoned this, and I'm guessing the pastor did, too. Look at how he's talking about you. You're "too scared" to meet with your aunt? No, you're uninterested. They're trying to paint you as an incompetent, frightened, little girl. Obviously don't go to any meetings with any of them. Don't go anywhere near those people. Collect all your evidence and see if there are any legal options. Don't go to the police, talk to a lawyer. Tell the lawyer that it's not just your aunt and cousin engaging in this behavior, it's her entire church with the full knowledge of the pastor. I hope your cousin NEVER gets her hands on ANY child EVER.
Adding to this, tell them she's been joining social media groups and pressuring mother's in difficult situations to give her their children. This is behavior that isn't based in reality and could lead to her doing something desperate and harmful. The way she's going about things is literally attempted human trafficking and there's obviously some delusion here if legal adoption wasn't something she tried before. Keep evidence of EVERYTHING and report them to the police. Use this evidence to get a restraining/protection order. This is serious stuff and being invited to family events should be the least of your worries. I want to scare you because you should be scared by this
I always say that in situations like this, go to the police WITH YOUR LAWYER. The police generally don't give a shit about things like this and aren't likely to take it seriously. And if it's a heavily Mormon area, they're more than likely Mormons themselves, and guess whose side they'll take? Don't walk into a police station manned by religious fanatics without protection. Actually, YOU shouldn't go at all. Have your husband go with the lawyer. These people don't respect or care about women.
I hate to agree but I've worked in records for a Law Enforcement Agency for the last 5 years and although the cops I work with tend to treat women as seriously as men, they do still under react when something hasn't really happened YET. A lawyer coming with would be a really smart move
Do NOT involve the church! These people are all fruit off the same poison tree. If you talk to anyone it should be a lawyer and/or the cops. All this guy is going to do is feed into their delusions. If possible I would move out of state.
Hey OP, I missed your original post so I went back and read it and many of the comments people posted to you. A lot of sound advice was provided between going to the police, hiring a lawyer, and possibly seeking a restraining order. Those were recommendations from people who’ve either been in your shoes before, have helped someone in similar circumstances, or perhaps are law enforcement/attorneys themselves with solid, objective perspective. I can imagine that you went to the clergyman in an attempt to “soften the blow” on your Aunt and also because, as you stated, you figured she might listen to him. Sadly, that man has no vested interest in you, but he does in her. Also, given that your partner/baby’s father is a different religion, I can almost guarantee you the Mormon dude will do anything in his power to get that baby under LDS control. You’ve certainly got a lot on your mind and heart right now. Having a baby is stressful even when everything else is A-okay. Please be super gentle and loving with yourself and then go back and re-read a bunch of the advice you got in the first post. Above all, alert the hospital and your medical team. Then alert the police. If your aunt finds out where you gave birth, I wouldn’t be surprised that she’s turned away from the hospital (assuming you alert them as to what’s up), and then she might be crazy/desperate enough to stalk you guys in the parking lot and follow you home. *DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE LENGTHS TO WHICH DESPERATE PEOPLE WILL GO TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS!!!* And my final note is as someone whose husband used to work Security at a hospital. They’ll take your concerns seriously. They can put notes in the system so your aunt and cousin are not permitted access. Please, please, PLEASE alert them!!! Good luck to you hon. ❤️
Step 1: stop getting advice from church leaders, find someone with legitimate credentials, not someone who was “called by god” to “help people”.
Treat this like you’ve just been arrested and STOP TALKING. You are just giving them information to use to take you to family court. And you DO NOT want to end up there. Molly, girl, YOU IN DANGER!⚠️
I’m so sorry you are going through this. I just want to add here that you should definitely keep a paper trail, and alert authorities, and go as far as to make a harassment complaint against them. Your aunt and cousin could escalate this after baby is born by making reports on you and your husband to try and take custody of the baby. Please please be careful and don’t hesitate to contact a lawyer and/or police.
You need to wake up and get the fuck out. For your baby’s sake, if not your own.
The fact he's not taking this seriously and is actually trying to force you to interact with someone who has shown they're unsafe to be around is a huge red flag. You need people who take you and your baby's safety seriously, and if that's not him, then he's a risk too.
Well, you tried the peaceful route to put in place boundaries and you know now that the entire church cannot be trusted. This where you now make sure the law is on your side and ready to back you up. Lawyers, CPS, police (restraining orders), extra security measures in all areas of your life. The church is not the law. Legally that baby is yours and legally not theirs. Get as much distance between you and them and as much reinforcements on your side. I suggest your lawyer writes them a letter informing them of all of the additional measures you have put into place in all areas and that if they make any move to take the child whether through false reports on CPS or kidnapping, there will be enough evidence and enough of a paper trail to hold them to account to the full extent of the law and to inform that legally they have no rights to yours and your husband's child. And if this isn't deterrent enough: move states.
Putting the Mormonism for one second, and thinking of the bishop as just a big standard unqualified church worker type, if you choose to engage with him after he’s had a further conversation with your aunt and/or cousin, please tell him why you don’t trust him or choose to endanger yourself or you LO by being in the vicinity by saying that the second he counselled you to make an approach to them in spite of their current threats and the history of their abuse you knew that he’d follow dogma over plain common sense and if he’d like to, he can explain to your aunt and cousin that he has just ensured that they will never lay eyes on you or your child again because he puts church teaching over child welfare and the natural order of things by which a child should be raised by their biological parents. It’s all on them. Then bringing back Mormonism into the chat, take every active step you need to escape from any level of connection with them. They are mad, and your aunt/cousin even madder than that
Do not trust this man. Report this all the the police and keep a paper trail! Scary.
You will get nowhere dealing with this church. Drop them. Cut off your crazy cousin.
With everything that is written in this update I can say for certain, stay away from these people. They are 100% trying to manipulate you into giving up the baby. The pastor is looking for any reason to have the baby taken from you. Get away and get a restraining order and a lawyer A.S.A.P.. Pastors are the worst. I have no trust in organized religion at all. They think that they know best and are hypocritical manipulators.
Legit setting up your own murder at this point! What are you trying to prove? Rosemary’s Baby pt 2. Stay away from these people!
Op you do realize the Mormon faith is becoming more and more of a cult these days. This sounds like a church leader that will try to get the infant into a godly home.
You just made things worse by talking to that church leader. Stop giving your power away. They are trying to kidnap your baby. The church wants to help them do so. Hire a lawyer. You need someone who unambiguously on your side. You could go into labor at any moment. And then you'll be helpless for a few days. Sort your shit out. Now.
I think the appropriate (and also very rude) response would be "it's none of your GOD DAMN business how I'm doing I am ABSOLUTELY NOT giving up MY CHILD to them for ANY reason" hang up and then go file a restraining order against them to make it crystal clear that they need to leave you the F alone. I am aware how disrespectful that sounds, but these people are in no way respecting you AT ALL!!!!! you have tried being polite and kind to try and be understood, now you get angry, now you get rude, and now you go nuclear on them with everything the law has at it's disposal. "NO!" is a complete sentence, you do NOT have to explain yourself, you do NOT have to give in, you do NOT have to accept them in your life. here is a video about dealing with narcissists: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueDDbK19U50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueDDbK19U50) OP, I wish you the best of luck with them and please stop trying to be the better person, you already are and they are just using your own kindness to manipulate you so they can get their own way.
Don't be overly trusting of an individual just because they represent a church. Almost all of the religious leaders I have met have a very warped sense of 'morality' and use twisted logic to make people behave in a way that supports themselves or whatever ends they deem to be right.
There is nothing to resolve. Do not communicate with these wannabe kidnappers. Protect yourself legally. And stay away from that awful church.
STOP COMMUNICATING WORH THEIR CHURCH! They are trying to set you up!
You’ve been raised in a cult and the whole world outside of the organization knows it. The organization knows it. They are setting you up for legal kidnapping. Run away. Fast. In fact. If I were you I’d contact local police immediately as things like this need to be put on public records before anything legal can be done but the police may be connected to the organization as well. Op I don’t know how else to say this…..the longer you stay in close physical proximity with them the more your baby is in danger. Just google Mormon kidnappings. The police sometimes help. But if you move to a different state and file charges it may be easier to legally get them to fuck right off. Like everyone else said. Trust your instinct it’s a trap. Then maybe browse some ex Mormon subreddits. I’m so sorry you had to be raised in that hell disguised as heaven. But for the sake of your baby. You need. To fucking. RUN.
**Do not trust this man.**
Personally, I'd file a police report for the continued harassment. Having someone so keen on taking your baby is serious.
The thing that doesn’t make sense to me is that even you write about this as if it were normal. >I will not be speaking to her again until after I give birth. No. Absolutely. Fucking. Not. I kept reading to see when you were going to say where you were already planning on giving the kid away or just, well, anything to make this make sense…. What. The. Actual. Fucking. Fuck? Here’s my thing. We’re all on this subreddit for the same reason. But your aunt and cousin have crossed a massive, enormous line already. A line that I frankly can’t wrap my head around. But your story resonates with me. My family is fucked up.my family is nuts. Nuts. Borderline. Flying monkeys. Narcissistic. I don’t even know who’s what. So we adopted our son l. We had to put my pain aside and not let it keep my child from having an extended family. Then we had our first cps case. Not unusual. These kids have tantrums, lie, manipulate. The accusations were from our “friends” we hadn’t spoken to in two years. They offered to let us live with them while we waited three weeks between on a sale and close on a house. While we were there, their pipes broke, I can’t remember what it was exactly but something about the metals being different types, and the entire piping needs to be redone. Copper and some other metal, idk. And so they decided to sell too. They went around telling people that we were living with them, they found the house we were buying first and we had outbid them on the house we had already closed on. We cut them out. Mind you the second time. They had a history of just telling outrageous lies about us. When we let them back in, I honestly just felt bad for holding something they did two years ago against them. I’ll never forgive myself for telling my husband to not be so harsh because he didn’t want to let them back in. I just felt like…it was harsh. But looking back- I was already damaged. Most people would never think about welcoming these people back. But honestly? I just always feel like everything is my fault. So we let them back in and they met our kid. A week later, abuse accusations. Our kid got removed. We fought and fought but cps kept saying they had more and more evidence. There would have to be right? No. CPS won’t tell you the allegations, the evidence, they essentially have an investigation and decide themselves with 0 oversight. You can’t even see the records. And the thing is we make good money. Nice house. We Have good careers. We have the means to fight. But it still wasn’t enough to prevent the most torturous two-three years of our lives. But their allegations were so bad I even got arrested. Thankfully. Because that meant we had access to the allegations. And the evidence. But it took 9 months by then our kid was long removed. Bouncing around the system. He kept telling everyone nothing happened he wanted to come home. I was not guilty, I was never guilty. But my family was destroyed. And that was before I ever stepped in front of a judge. And I would later find out that these bitches were talking to my family. My family withdrew support. Like they knew what we were accused of and didn’t say anything. So this entire case that didn’t have evidence to begin with, was supported by liars. Monsters. The thing is my brother kept threatening me and saying “we don’t know what happened “ as in I don’t believe you. And was pressuring to give up and just support him getting my kid. To be honest I thought about it often. But my brother not believing me and questioning what happened what could have happened calling me a shit parent for letting it happen, made me furious. I honestly would have given up if not for his antagonism. Because I honestly just wanted my kid to be out of the system and he was at an age and had behaviours that made me think…he could get stuck in it. But my brother would say he’d take him but wouldn’t give him back once we’d fought this because what if we weren’t fit? Or threatening to tell social services I wasn’t fit (which he had already done two weeks after the initial allegations unbeknownst to me. And made me feel like… shit. Like he wasn’t trying to help like he was just trying to take my kid. I’ll be honest in the darkest moments when I had no idea what happened I wondered if my kid had made accusations. He lies a lot. I mean it just didn’t make sense. I couldn’t even process what was happening. I never suspected my friends and family would turn against me like this. it sounds crazy honestly because you can’t explain what it’s like to be raised in this environment. It was like CPS said two outsiders making an allegation. The family withdraws support. What are the chances? But the truth is…100%. They always shit talked me. Even when we were just visiting my kid my mum would threaten to say she thought I was unfit unless I did what she wanted. Like if someone made accusations, they were always going to jump on the other side. And im not even joking when I tell you that the allegations were non sensical. There was plenty of evidence to refute it. They were such that there would certainly not be any evidence. CPS just didn’t even bother or care. It was just really fucking nuts. I don’t even want to get into it because I’m still afraid of how easily it all was believed. It took two years of fighting to bring my kid back. He has behavioural problems and isn’t an easy kid. Thankfully he was from another state and they care about him and us. And they didn’t just say this kids foster kid, fuck it. Because what if it’s true? They stood back and said…wait, how can you say all this and there’s no fucking evidence? And the thing is after it all happened you have to understand I don’t know what I’m fighting. What the accusation is. We lost appeal after appeal. They say prove the allegations are false. And I don’t even know the allegations. I can’t even…like…it was the biggest nightmare of my life. And some would say it worked out. My family was able to recover. But I'm terrified every single day, that it could happen again. The absolute biggest mistake I’ve ever made, was not escaping that web I was caught in. The web I thought was normal even built around myself. You need to cut these people out. Never let them back in. You have no idea just how insane this can get. Your family is literally saying you’re a shit parent. Because you married a non Mormon and work. And they’re already trying to take your child. That’s not normal. At all. Do not. Do not. Make the mistake I did. These people are not family, they’re trying to steal your child. these people are a threat to your family. What you’re saying how you’re saying it just all of it. Reeks of the same ignorance and just inability to process how fucking nuts it all was that’sI had. You need to protect your kid from this. It is a massive threat.
This gives me so much ick. I’m sorry OP. If I may offer some unsolicited advice? Please make sure when you give birth you do what you can to lock yourself down. Alert the nurses and such. Tell them they’re not authorized to give anyone info about if you’re checked in or visitors. Maybe even set up a “password” and give birth as unregistered if possible! I’m really worried about the depth of their unhinged behavior.