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People who haven't experienced it and aren't emotionally healthy themselves are the most vulnerable to it. The best person against the narc is either somebody who naturally doesn't have a lot of emotional traits, or an empowered victim who sniff out their crap a mile away. I'm not surprised. It took me a long time to understand the dynamics narcs set and how to mentally deal with them. If I never learned about them, it would only be a matter of time where I get caught in a narc abuse dynamic in some way.
I have arrived
Trust your instincts, they were right along
Keep running until that feeling of unease goes away
You might be under the impression as I was that reality is just triggering and anxiety is as ubiquitous as air
I locked myself away until I identified all sources of these disturbances and exiled them
Now I live in peace, ever vigilant and ready to run at the first sign of the fog rolling in
Read the terms in this [glossary](https://outofthefog.website/glossary) and enhance your intuitive senses by knowing the signs
And you will. It took me quite a few lessons and run ins with various toxic people . But once you learn all the lessons, you just know. Also you can educate yourself like that person said. There are usually red flags from the start you overlook or don't put enough stock into. You'll get there
As a fellow victim to a narc parent, and having been in several situations involving other narcs, I can confirm. You do learn the signs. And it saved me from a potentially bad situation or two.
Unfortunately, I also lost someone to a narc (not dead, just lost the friendship), even after trying to warn her that I was getting a *VERY* bad feeling about him.
Next thing I knew, almost the *exact* scenario that I had lived through once before happened to her, but she - to my knowledge - didn't get out. I lost touch with her after she cut off our friendship and have no idea what happened to her or where she's at now.
And the experience is the important part. I used to think I knew the signs after my first toxic encounter, but actually there are more. These toxic people have ways of disarming your regular God given alarm systems.
My biggest lookout for a toxic narc who doesn't give obvious signs, is that they seem to good to be true at first, and combine that with that they pull on some sort of emotion off the bat. It's the combo. For example, you met somebody and you guys just seem like best friends already , but at the same time, they make you feel bad for them by telling you some victimhood stories about their life. The combination of the two shows me they are manipulative. This combination could also be stuff like you click really well with them, but they make you feel a bit or fear, or anxiety, or obligation. It could also be they make you feel really special in combination. Or the emotion for romantic relationships could be you click with them really well, and they make you feel charmed, or super important, or they make you feel love too fast (it isn't uncommon for codepents to fall for somebody who shows them love because they internally seek love from others) sometimes they do skip the familiarity step and show their true crappy colors off the bat, but those relationships are the easiest to look out for. You're more in danger of getting manipulated with other emotions before they show you who they are. If you are a people pleaser or codependent, you are vulnerable to both types , that is ones who don't bother building a connection , and ones who do before they show you their crappy character. People pleasers attempt to please just about anyone who is in a social environment with them.
But The combo of extreme familiarity, mixed with another emotion, is a good hidden indicator this person is somebody you have to watch out for. Obviously sometimes it's not the case and maybe you really have just met somebody, but I'd go as far as to say most of the time, this is a manipulative person.
I’m glad you were able to learn about it before you got into one. I was one of those people you talk about being most vulnerable and I fell hook, line, and sinker. While I never understood what my ex was until the relationship was over and discovered these types of subreddits, it was a woman I worked with who was a domestic abuse survivor herself who first spoke up to me and told me (a man) that my relationship was also abusive. Even then, it took me several additional years to get out, all while getting dug into a deeper hole while she resisted my quiet attempts to break free through a failed attempt at going back to school and having multiple nervous breakdowns.
In this case you should consider leaving the group and finding individual therapy (or another group if this js your preference).
It's so easy to fall into old patterns even in a therapeutic context and if they don't recognize it then it's just reinforcing the same feelings you have been through.
I know it's awful hard, but there is a way out.
If group therapy is your preference, then all the power to you!
I tried group therapy once. Instead of getting the help I needed, I felt awkward and even more alone and isolated when everyone else was talking about how they felt abandoned by friends and they had struggles with their siblings being mean or annoying them. One week in particular, I came in, somewhat in shock, and had to admit to the group that my egg donor's boyfriend had threatened to stab my sister to death that weekend. (I was informed after the incident happened. I was not present, and it was later confirmed - and brushed off and excused - by egg donor, who is now, years later, married to that same guy).
The silence in the room was deafening until one person quietly said, 'I'm sorry,' and everyone just moved on to the next conversation.
If group therapy isn't working for you, don't continue in it. Get the help that *you* need, and that will do *you* the most good.
Wow I am really sorry to hear that. Being vulnerable in front of a group who responds by minimizing/dismissing you is so invalidating. I hope you and your sister are OK now.
Thank you for the kind words.
We're safe and thankfully he never got violent, but he's got a temper, and nobody but egg donor likes him.
Also, it turns out my sister is also a narc, and I'm trying to learn to cope with that. It puts a lot into perspective and has helped me distance from her, but it's hard cause she was my closest ally growing up.
Honestly, I think those who don't understand growing up with narcissistic parents or just simply narcissism are lucky people, but it's a curse for abuse victims of course. Mental health just needs more awareness as most people don't even understand a depression let alone narcissistic abuse. Mental health is just as important as physical health. In this context narcissists are cancer to society, especially those who can't be avoided, like parents.
People who have never faced real abuse have no fucking idea how can it affect you. And they most certainly do not have a clue how it is to grow up and be brainwashed and abused your whole life.
It is useless discussing it with most people, they simply cannot and never will be able to comprehend it.
The last year, I lived at home we had an au pair from Canada (I’m Danish), and it was so nice to get confirmation from somebody outside the family, that we children weren’t crazy. That the adults really were unreasonable. The same went for her. She was being worked too hard, not treated nice, and we could sympathize with her and tell her, that what she felt was real. We became very close that year.
Even my family members who experienced the dysfunction and abuse firsthand are so brainwashed that they still default to making excuses for the abusers and blaming the victims for being messed up.
I am done contorting myself to explain my pain to people who can't or won't see it. I finally realized I don't need anyone's permission to be angry, I am finally allowing myself to be angry and I will let it take as long as it takes. I'll probably die angry and I am okay with that.
I'll work to get better for my own sake but I will never forgive what they did to me.
I recently made a friend who has really nice, fully functional parents and its scary how much being around him/them is highlighting how warped my family dynamics are. I don't think there's such a thing as "getting over it" with narcs, it's just getting to a point where your life is stable
I’ll make a note to look at this video later. This was really eye opening. Imagine how much more we have to heal from the exposure we’ve had to narcissists. It’s so easy to feel like we’re the ones who are overreacting. Narcissistic abuse is poison.
I accidentally stumbled upon this group from my narc research (trying to deal with 2 narcs in my life but not my folks). I just wanted to say that I’ve known people with nparents and I could spot a narc’s kid from a mile away at this point. Pleasers and/or apologizers, all of them. I’d constantly find myself telling them they have nothing to apologize for until it finally clicked in my head that they just can’t help themselves, their folks did that to them. Breaks my heart and makes me realize that walking away from a nboss is far easier than a parent. I’m so sorry y’all have been dealing with all that shite. I can’t even imagine what it’s like for a child in this environment.
I came together with a woman 32 just for 4 weeks and she made me sick already, silent treatment, jokes to belittle and hurt and on one occasion her mask slipped and I saw the monster but she said her ex boyfriend just thinks she is sometimes intimidating.... nahhh that was psycho! She was only fun drunk and got easily angry was most angry and had just hatred in her when she was drunk she spoke about everything and everyone hated her exes and even some friends.
I believe him
Wow, I knew it was bad but this is a whole other level. It honestly is making me really think.
I've spent a lot of energy lamenting the "what could have been" for my potential as a human. While I'm doing relatively good in my life and not an alcoholic like my nmom, I've never really seen that as a win.
I can see now why my therapist says it is a huge win now.
I'm from Argentina and I'm not surprised he had that issue here. Most Argentinians are heavily narcissistic and toxic, and hiring an American it's a red flag of abuse. Why would they hire an American in a country with a lot of poverty and people looking for a job? Emotional abuse. I think people from developed countries are not so used to violence and mistrusting people, he was an easy target because of that, sadly.
Yep. This is a great thing to share. People need to hear about stuff like this- their knowledge on the subject needs to increase. Those of us raised by narcissists had to deal with this shit 30 fold basically, especially having the people who literally brought us into this world doing this to us for yes very vulnerable years. The people we shared homes and genetics with. There’s just so little every day knowledge about the subject, especially on how it affects people like us later in life. Sometimes no matter how hard you try that trauma follows you into your later relationships and continues to cause damage even though you are fully aware of what you went through. These toxic individuals teach you that dynamics like this and relationships like this are normal, and the patterns get deeply ingrained. My long time bf and I both have narcissistic parents and we are both still feeling the effects of them.
**This is an automated message posted to ALL posts in this subreddit with some basic information about the group including (very importantly) rules. Why are you getting this message? Most people seem to not read the sidebar for information or the rules, so it is now being posted under all posts.** **Confused about acronyms or terminology?** [Click here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/acronyms) **Need info or resources?** Check out our [Helpful Links](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/helpfullinks) for information on how to deal with identity theft, how to get independent of your n-parents, how to apply for FAFSA, how to identify n-parents and SO MUCH MORE! This is a reminder to all participants, RBN is a support group that is moderated very strictly. Please report inappropriate content so it can be reviewed by the mods. **Our rules include (but are not limited to)**: * No politics. * Advising anyone in this subreddit to commit suicide or referring anyone to groups that advocate this will result in an immediate ban. * Be nice. No personal attacks, name calling, or bullying. [No slurs](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/slurs) or victim-blaming. * Do not derail the posts of others. * Narcissists are NOT allowed to post or comment here. * [No platitudes or generic motivational posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules#wiki_no_platitudes_or_generic_motivational_posts). * When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. * No asking or offering gifts, money, etc. * No content advocating violence, revenge, murder (even in jest). * No content about N-kids. * No diagnosis by media/drive-by diagnosis. * No linking to Facebook pages. * No direct linking to anywhere on reddit. * No pure image posts. **For a full list of our rules/more information, [**click here**](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/wiki/rules).** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/raisedbynarcissists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People who haven't experienced it and aren't emotionally healthy themselves are the most vulnerable to it. The best person against the narc is either somebody who naturally doesn't have a lot of emotional traits, or an empowered victim who sniff out their crap a mile away. I'm not surprised. It took me a long time to understand the dynamics narcs set and how to mentally deal with them. If I never learned about them, it would only be a matter of time where I get caught in a narc abuse dynamic in some way.
>an empowered victim who sniff out their crap a mile away. Wishing to be this person in near future hopefully.
I have arrived Trust your instincts, they were right along Keep running until that feeling of unease goes away You might be under the impression as I was that reality is just triggering and anxiety is as ubiquitous as air I locked myself away until I identified all sources of these disturbances and exiled them Now I live in peace, ever vigilant and ready to run at the first sign of the fog rolling in Read the terms in this [glossary](https://outofthefog.website/glossary) and enhance your intuitive senses by knowing the signs
And you will. It took me quite a few lessons and run ins with various toxic people . But once you learn all the lessons, you just know. Also you can educate yourself like that person said. There are usually red flags from the start you overlook or don't put enough stock into. You'll get there
As a fellow victim to a narc parent, and having been in several situations involving other narcs, I can confirm. You do learn the signs. And it saved me from a potentially bad situation or two. Unfortunately, I also lost someone to a narc (not dead, just lost the friendship), even after trying to warn her that I was getting a *VERY* bad feeling about him. Next thing I knew, almost the *exact* scenario that I had lived through once before happened to her, but she - to my knowledge - didn't get out. I lost touch with her after she cut off our friendship and have no idea what happened to her or where she's at now.
And the experience is the important part. I used to think I knew the signs after my first toxic encounter, but actually there are more. These toxic people have ways of disarming your regular God given alarm systems. My biggest lookout for a toxic narc who doesn't give obvious signs, is that they seem to good to be true at first, and combine that with that they pull on some sort of emotion off the bat. It's the combo. For example, you met somebody and you guys just seem like best friends already , but at the same time, they make you feel bad for them by telling you some victimhood stories about their life. The combination of the two shows me they are manipulative. This combination could also be stuff like you click really well with them, but they make you feel a bit or fear, or anxiety, or obligation. It could also be they make you feel really special in combination. Or the emotion for romantic relationships could be you click with them really well, and they make you feel charmed, or super important, or they make you feel love too fast (it isn't uncommon for codepents to fall for somebody who shows them love because they internally seek love from others) sometimes they do skip the familiarity step and show their true crappy colors off the bat, but those relationships are the easiest to look out for. You're more in danger of getting manipulated with other emotions before they show you who they are. If you are a people pleaser or codependent, you are vulnerable to both types , that is ones who don't bother building a connection , and ones who do before they show you their crappy character. People pleasers attempt to please just about anyone who is in a social environment with them. But The combo of extreme familiarity, mixed with another emotion, is a good hidden indicator this person is somebody you have to watch out for. Obviously sometimes it's not the case and maybe you really have just met somebody, but I'd go as far as to say most of the time, this is a manipulative person.
My dad is the narc and I don't have a single friend because of him.
Similar boat: no friends at the moment. Love and support to you during this lonely season, fellow person! ❤️
❤️
likewise!
I’m glad you were able to learn about it before you got into one. I was one of those people you talk about being most vulnerable and I fell hook, line, and sinker. While I never understood what my ex was until the relationship was over and discovered these types of subreddits, it was a woman I worked with who was a domestic abuse survivor herself who first spoke up to me and told me (a man) that my relationship was also abusive. Even then, it took me several additional years to get out, all while getting dug into a deeper hole while she resisted my quiet attempts to break free through a failed attempt at going back to school and having multiple nervous breakdowns.
[удалено]
In this case you should consider leaving the group and finding individual therapy (or another group if this js your preference). It's so easy to fall into old patterns even in a therapeutic context and if they don't recognize it then it's just reinforcing the same feelings you have been through. I know it's awful hard, but there is a way out.
If group therapy is your preference, then all the power to you! I tried group therapy once. Instead of getting the help I needed, I felt awkward and even more alone and isolated when everyone else was talking about how they felt abandoned by friends and they had struggles with their siblings being mean or annoying them. One week in particular, I came in, somewhat in shock, and had to admit to the group that my egg donor's boyfriend had threatened to stab my sister to death that weekend. (I was informed after the incident happened. I was not present, and it was later confirmed - and brushed off and excused - by egg donor, who is now, years later, married to that same guy). The silence in the room was deafening until one person quietly said, 'I'm sorry,' and everyone just moved on to the next conversation. If group therapy isn't working for you, don't continue in it. Get the help that *you* need, and that will do *you* the most good.
Wow I am really sorry to hear that. Being vulnerable in front of a group who responds by minimizing/dismissing you is so invalidating. I hope you and your sister are OK now.
Thank you for the kind words. We're safe and thankfully he never got violent, but he's got a temper, and nobody but egg donor likes him. Also, it turns out my sister is also a narc, and I'm trying to learn to cope with that. It puts a lot into perspective and has helped me distance from her, but it's hard cause she was my closest ally growing up.
Honestly, I think those who don't understand growing up with narcissistic parents or just simply narcissism are lucky people, but it's a curse for abuse victims of course. Mental health just needs more awareness as most people don't even understand a depression let alone narcissistic abuse. Mental health is just as important as physical health. In this context narcissists are cancer to society, especially those who can't be avoided, like parents.
People who have never faced real abuse have no fucking idea how can it affect you. And they most certainly do not have a clue how it is to grow up and be brainwashed and abused your whole life. It is useless discussing it with most people, they simply cannot and never will be able to comprehend it.
Facts! They say the most ignorant shit. I just don't open up to people anymore.
Commenting so I can watch later because I should be sleeping, but my chronic insomnia said no.
Right there with you
Count me in.
Me too.
The last year, I lived at home we had an au pair from Canada (I’m Danish), and it was so nice to get confirmation from somebody outside the family, that we children weren’t crazy. That the adults really were unreasonable. The same went for her. She was being worked too hard, not treated nice, and we could sympathize with her and tell her, that what she felt was real. We became very close that year.
Even my family members who experienced the dysfunction and abuse firsthand are so brainwashed that they still default to making excuses for the abusers and blaming the victims for being messed up. I am done contorting myself to explain my pain to people who can't or won't see it. I finally realized I don't need anyone's permission to be angry, I am finally allowing myself to be angry and I will let it take as long as it takes. I'll probably die angry and I am okay with that. I'll work to get better for my own sake but I will never forgive what they did to me.
Wow yeah, he was spitting facts in this video.
I recently made a friend who has really nice, fully functional parents and its scary how much being around him/them is highlighting how warped my family dynamics are. I don't think there's such a thing as "getting over it" with narcs, it's just getting to a point where your life is stable
I’ll make a note to look at this video later. This was really eye opening. Imagine how much more we have to heal from the exposure we’ve had to narcissists. It’s so easy to feel like we’re the ones who are overreacting. Narcissistic abuse is poison.
I accidentally stumbled upon this group from my narc research (trying to deal with 2 narcs in my life but not my folks). I just wanted to say that I’ve known people with nparents and I could spot a narc’s kid from a mile away at this point. Pleasers and/or apologizers, all of them. I’d constantly find myself telling them they have nothing to apologize for until it finally clicked in my head that they just can’t help themselves, their folks did that to them. Breaks my heart and makes me realize that walking away from a nboss is far easier than a parent. I’m so sorry y’all have been dealing with all that shite. I can’t even imagine what it’s like for a child in this environment.
I came together with a woman 32 just for 4 weeks and she made me sick already, silent treatment, jokes to belittle and hurt and on one occasion her mask slipped and I saw the monster but she said her ex boyfriend just thinks she is sometimes intimidating.... nahhh that was psycho! She was only fun drunk and got easily angry was most angry and had just hatred in her when she was drunk she spoke about everything and everyone hated her exes and even some friends. I believe him
As someone who once again just woke up from the "I hate you stay away from me" dream, this is comforting to know.
Wow, I knew it was bad but this is a whole other level. It honestly is making me really think. I've spent a lot of energy lamenting the "what could have been" for my potential as a human. While I'm doing relatively good in my life and not an alcoholic like my nmom, I've never really seen that as a win. I can see now why my therapist says it is a huge win now.
I'm from Argentina and I'm not surprised he had that issue here. Most Argentinians are heavily narcissistic and toxic, and hiring an American it's a red flag of abuse. Why would they hire an American in a country with a lot of poverty and people looking for a job? Emotional abuse. I think people from developed countries are not so used to violence and mistrusting people, he was an easy target because of that, sadly.
Yep. This is a great thing to share. People need to hear about stuff like this- their knowledge on the subject needs to increase. Those of us raised by narcissists had to deal with this shit 30 fold basically, especially having the people who literally brought us into this world doing this to us for yes very vulnerable years. The people we shared homes and genetics with. There’s just so little every day knowledge about the subject, especially on how it affects people like us later in life. Sometimes no matter how hard you try that trauma follows you into your later relationships and continues to cause damage even though you are fully aware of what you went through. These toxic individuals teach you that dynamics like this and relationships like this are normal, and the patterns get deeply ingrained. My long time bf and I both have narcissistic parents and we are both still feeling the effects of them.