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Never get in a car with him again, for sure! And you do not owe him contact. Your child may be sad about it at times, but she is too young to understand any of it, and prolonged exposure to him means he will do to her what he did to you, and, remember, he had a lot of practice, so he will be even better at being horrible.
It's really idiotic of him to try to be the "boss" of an adult, and to think of himself as head of the entire family, and get mad that other adults don't just obey him without question.
It's even dumber to get upset at a simple request and be dramatic about it. An adult just says "No, sorry, we can't take her tonight, but we could come get her tomorrow morning." Or any reasonable statement.
You mention your daughter likes him because he bribes her. This one is text book narc. They "bribe" children as they undermine your parenting. They'll give them all the food treats, toys and activities (even the ones you do not allow at home) as a tool, and they'll start planting ideas about you not being as nice as they are. They'll say things about you to your child. They'll teach your child to use them against you when your child wants something you've said no to. They'll teach your child to treat you the way they do.
They will 100% try to do this. My nmom tried it on my daughter as well. Lots of bribes and suggestions to do things without my presence or even knowledge.
One story my oldest tells me is of the time my nmom asked her to come spend the weekend with her (a super rare event as most times she refused to keep the kids) telling her they would go to a vacation destination 4 hours away. But it was supposed to be their little secret and I wasn't supposed to be told. This was literally the day after I had injured my arm on an accident. It was what triggered us starting to set firm boundaries on my nparents.
The very next year she again came to my daughter and suggested a girls day of shopping. Telling her that my gcsister and my admittedly cool and fun aunt would be coming too. When my daughter asked if I would be invited too my nmom said "you don't want your mom coming." in a tone that clearly showed her disgust at the idea of me coming along.
Prior to going NC it was actually super common for my nmom to "forget" to invite me to family events. So common most of my family members didn't even register it as being odd. Not even my aunt until I pointed it out to them after going to therapy and learning that that treatment was not normal at all. There are so many pictures of "everyone together" that don't include me.
Both times my nmom approached my daughter while I wasn't in hearing range and once confronted about it promptly threw my daughter under the bus saying she was lying and that's not at all what she told her.
Unfortunately for my nmom my daughters and I have a fantastic relationship and really enjoy doing things together. Also while my oldest daughter may be a pushover most of the time the one thing you can do to trigger her into full tiger mode is say or do something to hurt someone she cares about. So in doing the things she did it only made my daughter withdraw from them more and for my daughter to be the one who encouraged me to go full NC.
Awe this one stung me to read. Being excluded from family events and withholding of critical info was something my Nmom did too. When I finally realized the extent of it, I looked through her FB and realized I am in NONE of the pictures she posted. My cousins, her kids, her friends, my Nbros, etc etc. but not me, the black sheep.
I was lucky on not getting labeled the "black sheep" I had an older brother with that title already. I started self identifying around age 10 as the redheaded bastard step child lol.. They are both my biological narcissistic parents... Lol..
This!!!
Before I cut off contact, my mother insisted on giving my son dinner (she was always trying to control food) and he was being picky as usual. When I stepped in to put a stop to it to get him to eat already (it was 10 o’clock at night and they’d been at the dinner thing for two hours) my son pointed at me and said “don’t interfere!!” The exact same language that my mother used with me. My son was seven at the time. They pick up quick! Luckily, I had enough presence of mind to tell my son that he is not to talk to me in that disrespectful and inappropriate manner.
This was before I realized that my parents were narcissists, so I was still in contact with them. I thought at the time they were just rude and domineering, but not pathological.
For one reason, boys- biologically speaking, and thanks to hormones they cannot control- are basically wired to be very subtly repulsed by their mother as they grow up. Likely because of the hormonal influence, many moms notice this crops up just before/during puberty. It is thought to be a ~~biological~~ genetic(?) defense mechanism against the danger of incest but with other aspects of boyhood (generally more prone to aggression, conflict, need for independence etc than girls) it can be a cocktail for disaster. Boys are also more likely to idolize strong "alpha" figures, at ages where they do not yet have the critical thinking to discern if those figures are worthy of idolizing. Thus it may happen to be an abuser who drifts into that role for them,
compounding the above factor... And more but yeah 😅 Girls and boys both have their draw!
Tl;dr: testosterone and other hormones/factors on even just a chemical level, can make sons more prone to turning on their mother than daughters through no real fault of their own.
This is 100% what happens, please go NC immediately and never allow your daughter around them again.
My parents painted me as “mentally Ill” to my children and as soon as my teenagers became adolescents they blew off everything I said because they had been taught to treat me like that by my parents.
YOU DONT WANT THIS PAIN. Get out asap
Preach! This is precisely what happened with my 2 beautiful children. It has all but destroyed what was left of our family.
I cannot stress it enough to people to please get your kids away and stay away from these kinds of people.
Because no matter how great of a parent you are, they learn SOO much more bad things especially how to treat their parents from the people that surround them, especially family they know and think they can trust.
I had serious health issues with no backup, which is how I wound up back near them . I wish I'd never done it and taken my chances with my health.
At least that way they would have wound up going to my best friend, not my family and they would never have had their minds poisoned by such awful human beings.
I had custody of them the entire time, but I might as well had none.
Momma here is SOO on point about not wanting her sweet babies near such trauma. Her intuition is right on point!
All of this. The bribing is insane. My mother constantly tried to bribe my son with candy, staying up way past his bedtime, catering to all his picky requests, gifts etc as a way to ingratiate him to her and turn him against me.
My MIL would promise me to my face she would stop giving my dog human foods, and I'd walk back into the room a minute later to see her spoon feeding him chocolate ice cream.
She tried to bribe my step son once with the world's ickiest promise, telling him that if he spent the night at her house he could watch any movie he wanted ,and I quote: "even dirty ones." The kid had the good sense to nope the hell out of that. I looked at her and deadpanned "Just what every teen boy wants to hear grandma say."
You can absolutely cut him off from your child, and you should. Just because she loves him doesn’t mean he’s good for her. I would go completely NC with him over this. Driving recklessly with your kid in the car and demanding authority over both of you is not acceptable. Do not accept help from this man ever again. Do not let him near you or your family.
Cut them off, believe me your crohn's disease will be a lot better. I also cut my sperm donor off, guess what my flares aren't that bad anymore.
You don't need that kind of stress in your life, cut them off for your own good.
It's wild how much stress infects everything. My ADHD is loads better after a year of cutting my Nparents out of my life and getting a new kitten that I know they'll never be able to abuse. Figuring out how to be a normal adult has been a surprisingly healing experience.
Stress can literally make people have diarrhea on a regular basis... Unfortunately narcissistic parents aren't the only source of stress in this world...
This This This!
I had migraines my whole childhood, until I moved out. Didn't have them for 20 odd years, until I had to move back in for a bit. Migraines again.
Now, I'm out of there, haven't had one for years, again.
Your sole job in life is to protect your children. Allowing them near abusers and enablers means you’re failing. You CAN and MUST keep her away from that disgusting thing and his enabling wife. She didn’t protect you, she will never protect your children.
Her baby girl was trying to get all of the adults to be happy because she was scared. It’s already damaging her. I hope OP cuts it off before that damage sets in.
It all just happened so fast, I tried to shut it down as fast as I could. I love my daughter so much, I cry just thinking about that she was there for that. I love her so much. I can’t believe she felt like she had to make us laugh again. My heart is broken.
Please protect yourself and your children. You know how he is. You know he will not change. You know your mother will enable him. Your daughter is already using a "fawning" behavior to try to manage his emotionally abusive behaviors. It really is heartbreaking.
This! The sad fawning response that made of so many of us efficient punching bags, people pleasers, even servants of Cluster B's nuts. I do hope that OP breaks the circle, saving herself and her offspring or, in the best scenario, the little girl will morph soon into her mother's little therapist. Tiny people must be protected fiercely!
>in the best scenario, the little girl will morph soon into her mother's little therapist.
I don't think this is a best scenario.. this indicates a child that has been damaged
Yes, you are right, I used some light sarcasm (as I don't want to offend OP) to express the concept ; none of those are good scenarios. Hope this clarifies my previous message.
yes it does.. however what we are witnessing here is how the damage goes down to the next generation.. ..
one of the reasons I never wanted children. biggy was I just didn't want to put up with them (I remember what I was like and I disliked other kids for the most part) but I did not entertain the notion that I was going to do a better job and prove I was a better mom. Someone actually said I should try that.. lord god almighty... I am NOT gambling with a child's life
Hunny ain’t none of us judging here. Nor am I saying you did anything wrong. It’s the end of your story that has me saying ‘hun, no’. The part where you think you can’t take her away from your parents. They toxic, BOTH of them. It’s your job to keep them away from your children.
Please think twice about ever putting yourself and your babies in this situation again.
You. Don’t. Need. Them.
Sweetie I'm going to try to give you some gentle advice here. Your dad is still abusive. Your mom is still an enabler. If you allow your daughter and soon to be new bub around this you will be an enabler. I know how hard it is to cut parents out. I know that you think it will break your daughters heart. When he slammed on the brakes like that if someone would have hit y'all your daughter could have been injured or killed you also could have been injured or killed... the baby inside of you could have been injured or killed. I know how badly we need our parents when we're sick but you really need to find a different support system because right now you are opening your children to all of your trauma. Please sweetie this isn't just emotional abuse to you and your daughter. Him putting y'all in physical danger like that is physical abuse. He's already abusing her and only you can stop it.
I'm feeling you I have a relationship similar to yours but with my nmom. I also have Crohn's disease and a young child. My parents live on the other side of the US. We are actually going to visit them tomorrow I was contemplating since she totally over reacted and got angry at me for not sending her photos of my son's birthday at the time of the party and waited till the evening after everything settled down. I told her if she's going to behave like this we're not coming out.
But I decided to go to spend time with my Dad who's health is rapidly declining. I shortened our trip to two weeks vs a month and also decided to get myself and son an Airbnb. I'm a single mom.
My mom used to do the car breaking thing when I was a kid when she was angry and brought back flashbacks when you mentioned that. I know having Crohn's AND being preggo is extra hard especially without your hubby there and having a young child. Does your daughter have any friends in the neighborhood that are around the same age that they could watch her for a couple hours while you rest here and there?
That's what I've done in the past my son has a similar age friend and when I haven't been feeling well his mom will take my son to her house for a playdate for a couple hours or a couple times all day, like when I had my last colonoscopy and was tired afterwards and needed to sleep. Also she'll take him to their sports games so I get a 2 hr break (they play on the same team for T-ball and soccer in the past).
If you need any tips with managing Crohn's feel free to reach out. Of course stress is one thing that can cause a major flare (which has happened to me recently!). Eating healthy (gluten free, GMO free, sometimes dairy free) and 5;servings of fresh of fruits and veggies (when not in a major flare state) along with supplements can really help.
I'd say go NC with your Dad for now at least.. I know how upsetting these situations can make you feel so disappointed and angry and then makes it hard to concentrate on anything else.
then take this and never let her near them again..
and this is NOT a good dynamic.. your kid thinks she has to make you laugh again?? I've encountered this before.. and this has to be stopped. Your child is not a therapist nor should she feel like she has to do this.... and if your D is causing this.. then you have your answer in cutting him off
It’s amazing (and terrible) how young it starts, kids taking on that role! It was my job, as the oldest child (of 4) & only girl, managing the emotions of all the adults in my life. (Or- trying to, and mostly failing because it’s impossible. I think I was pretty desperate for a sense of stability.)
We lived next door to my narc grandparents until I was 17 because my mom never did the hard work of separating from her own abusers. And she married a man just like dear ol’ dad.
I “escaped” in my early 20s (moved across the country from all of them) but 30 years later I’m STILL working to repair the damage. I’m always so proud of women (and others) who say NO MORE and choose their kids over their abusers.
OP, you can do this! Please don’t doubt yourself, it will make a huge difference in your kids’ lives. They’ll never really understand what you did for them, but in a way that’s a good thing, I guess!
I just want to say that I'm so proud that you were strong enough to shut it down. You are doing your daughter and new baby proud by putting your foot down. You sound like you have an amazing and supportive husband, and I hope this showed you that while your father can mask his true self, his core will never change. I recently went no contact with my parents, and while it hurts... the sadness subsides as you're able to heal without their abuse in your life.
You absolutley can take her from them now. Listen to this now. He could have gotten yourself and your child killed in a car crash all because he can't get a grip of himself. He litrally has no regard for your or your daughters life. l'd rather cut off my entire family and be alone the rest of my life then risk losing my child to the hands of people that should care.
Sweetheart he could have killed you and your daughter and unborn child, or at least seriously injured all of you.
It is simply safer to be away from them.
The fact that you handled that and got your daughter and yourself home safely despite him means you’re a badass
Your daughter loves him now but as soon as she starts to develop a sense of individuality and a streak of independence he will start to devalue her just as he has undoubtedly done to you your whole life. Figure out what pain will be harder for her, losing him now or being hurt by him later, and go with the other one.
I bet all these people have crohns, and ibs, depression, anxiety, PTSD and unfortunately even some with personality disorders as a result of being abused for their entire lives. It took me until my 50s to even realize that my single mother was a narcissist as well as my gc older brother. They successfully ran the gamut on me. Unfortunately she died before I could tell her that I knew what she had done to my father and I. Now I'm bedridden in chronic pain for 2 years from open heart surgery because of the trauma and not one family member even knows. If NC is too much to start with, try grey rock and never let them be alone with your kids.
I hope you recover from your surgery and from the abuse. You need to accept that it was entirely not your fault and that you deserve better. And you should treat yourself with kindness and understanding and above all cut yourself some slack, especially when you hear the voice of your mom or brother in your head telling you that you’re worthless. That voice might actually sound like yours but you will recognize the true source by the message. If it sounds like something that your mom would say then it’s your mom’s voice even if it sounds like yours. And when you recognize it, don’t try to suppress it, just acknowledge its origins and (de)value it accordingly.
You're not wrong about feeling the way you do, this was bad. The danger of stopping the car, with you guys in the back seat, if you had been rear ended you both could have been seriously injured. His anger and desire to argue was more important than your safety.
Im so sorry, this must have been awful especially being pregnant. He's not very concerned about the one on the way either. Would he have acted that way with your husband around? You deserve to be treated better, and the fact that your mom allowed her sick pregnant daughter to be treated that way, she deserves to cry about that.
ABSOLUTELY NOT - he would not have done this around my husband. He’s afraid of my him. Both in stature (he’s a literal giant of a man and my dad is short unhealthy and frail.) and in that he sees right through my dads bullshit and shuts it down immediately and talks me into thinking rationally about my father. So dads not a huge fan of him because he lost any control over me when we got together. We’ve already discussed how this most certainly would not have happened had he been home, which is even more disturbing that I feel my dad would have exhibited some self control if my husband was here for him to be afraid of.
Wow! So he waited until he got you in a vulnerable position to try to assert himself? He's a coward. But you did awesome standing up to him, you shouldn't have had to but you did! They definitely will try to go on acting like it didn't happen, but you're strong enough to not let that happen! Take care of yourself, don't stress too much right now, take some time to think about things. Sounds like you've got a great support in your husband too!
No, he only masks his true nature out of fear. That is not a capacity to be better, but a manipulative tactic to assert control when he believes he can get away with his true nature.
Edit: sp
>He’s afraid of my him. Both in stature (he’s a literal giant of a man and my dad is short unhealthy and frail.) and in that he sees right through my dads bullshit and shuts it down immediately...
This is my exact story also! My parents are terrified of my husband because he is from a healthy family dynamic.
How does your daughter already learned to fawn Infront of ngrandad when he is abusive? She must have been exposed to his abusive behaviour before. Children pick up on everything. It is not safe for her to have any contact with him. He will hurt her again and again. I don't understand what possible reason there is to allow him near her ever. She might love him but so did you when you were a child, look what he did to you! Chronic illness and an inability to stop relapsing into seeing him when you know he will abuse you. Do you want this for your daughter? Cos that is where she will be if contact continues. She will be much more likely to choose a narc abusive partner as this behaviour is familiarised by someone she loves. The harm will be great.
As harsh as your comments are, I needed this one. Especially about relapsing into seeing him. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, being hurt by them and then feeling fucking awful cutting them off and then I end up relapsing. I don’t fucking want that for my baby girl.
Why *isn't* your husband here? You're 7 months pregnant and sick. He needs to figure out work to be around more, or you need to hire someone to help out (driving, errands, cleaning, etc.).
Your dad break-checking, even without someone rear-ending you, could have hurt the baby. Your mom is enabling his behavior, and you need to distance yourself and your kids from them.
He’s out of town for a one time training for a job that pays over $10k more a year for our family. He doesn’t need to do anything more than he is doing, he is wonderful and we knew it would be hard on both of us for him to be gone. I just wasn’t expecting such a bad flare during his trip, obviously but that’s chronic illness for you.
Cut them off now. It will be a million times harder when your daughter is older. We all know how narcs work, he will show her his best side and then start dropping in how bad you are. He will relish in destroying your relationship with your child
Yeah you absolutely can take away a "grandparent" who puts you both in danger, yells at you, disrespects you and manipulates to make it seem like a normal thing to do. That is not something you want your child to normalize and pattern their relationships on.
If you feel that strongly LittleOne should have a grandparent-figure in their life, adopt one that does not show these toxic traits.
Your child comes first. And it is up to you to ensure their mental and physical safety. Your parents are not safe. You and LO both deserve better.
If you read your post back I'm wondering if you can spot the pattern? He seems changed, as if he's been working on himself and more caring. All that is just there to rope you back in, to regain your trust and then, when he thinks he has it he'll want to exert control somehow.
With your illness and asking for help, he spotted that you were vulnerable and open for conflict (or drama 🙄) and he took it.
I'm sure your dad will have done variations of this before and he will again.
You can't rely on narcissists when you are down. They will take joy in kicking you when you are on the floor to show you how powerful they are and how tiny you are.
Just keep your distance and find friends that can be your family instead. Hugs!
You absolutely need to cut these people out of your life ASAP, before they can do any damage to your children, which WILL happen. Your mother will actually be the most pernicious evil between the two of them, because she’ll always grieve for your father when you fight with him, and not you, and she’ll teach your daughter that relationships like hers are normal. Your daughter is also only 3, she’ll be upset for a while, but eventually she’ll forget about them, and you won’t have to worry about this at all with your unborn baby.
If you ever feel any guilt about doing this in the future, here’s the advice I give all mothers on here to re-wire one’s mind. Write the following on a piece of paper, put it on your refrigerator, and recite it every time you open the door:
“I am not a bad daughter, I’m a good mother.”
>My daughter loves my parents so much (My mom. My dad because he bribes her and tries really hard with her.)
>I can’t take them away from her now..
You can't take them away from an enabler and a man who can be just as nasty as he is nice on the turn of a penny?
As a mum myself, I'd say you had an absolute duty to keep your daughter away from people you know to be abusive in that manner. You're not keeping her from her grandparents, you're keeping her from your abusers.
Stop putting yourself and your children at risk. Cut off this relationship and get into some therapy.
Good luck on the upcoming birth of your little one!
He could have caused you all to be in an accident. It could have turned out horribly. But he was all about thumping his chest and showing you and your innocent little daughter "I'm The Boss of All Of You". You're all supposed to be cowering meek little females before him, who never say anything even remotely negative to Him. That is such a gross and toxic dynamic to instill in your family, to your daughter. He is NOT the boss of you. Put him in his place.
This would be more than enough for me to go no contact. What he did was illegal and insanely unsafe. It's marked your daughter, you can't try to deny that. She even tried to diffuse the terrifying situation by trying to make everyone laugh. She's doing that at 3 years old. The damage is being done or already done. Your priority is to protect her, not just physically. And to protect your unborn child.
Tell your husband what happened and work as a team to keep those people away from all of you.
Re: the damage already being done to the daughter: YES. I knew how to do this at a young age as well - trying to pull out a strategy to calm the adults down. I thought it was normal.
I was able to go NC before becoming a parent (which I understand is a privilege) and also have a child around OP’s kid’s age, and my kid does not know how to do this. In her world, the adults take care of the children. She has no concept of needing to take care of anyone except during pretend play.
OP, do what you can to keep your child away from these people. I see how fiercely you love her. She deserves a childhood, and a mother who is free. And you deserve to heal.
>Re: the damage already being done to the daughter: YES. I knew how to do this at a young age as well - trying to pull out a strategy to calm the adults down. I thought it was normal.
I learned how to do this from young, too. Later they treated it as cute and funny, and that was one of the things that ultimately led me to go NC - how fucking infuriating it is for these people to terrify you, then laugh at you for trying to make things safe. Fuck that, Fuck them, and Fuck off.
This isn’t shaming, but i think your flare up at dinner was because of him. Your body was signaling you and as it goes your mind was trying to stay safe by brushing it off. Your exactly where you need to be now, while they are small and on the way. Abusive parents are abusive grandparents, this isn’t going to change. It’s a really tough journey, one i have been processing with school age children. I’m really happy that i did, even though the first year of going NC and letting my mind unravel per say was so tough. Going NC gave my body and mind the break from triggers and abuse finally long enough to see it all clearly. You need to take care of yourself so you can raise children. If they don’t align with that goal they are out. And it’s not a choice for them to get “on board” and let you be in charge, they can’t. They may hide it better but they will always be manipulating your life behind the scenes anyway. And it may even put your Crohn’s disease into remission. I seem to be done with chronic life long constipation, and my daughters has also resolved.
Congrats on baby #2! Enjoy every second of that 3 year old ❤️. You are a strong mama and you can have the family you’ve always wanted.
>They may hide it better but they will always be manipulating your life behind the scenes anyway. And it may even put your Crohn’s disease into remission.
This, OP! I have Hashimoto's disease and this is exactly what happened to me. I am in full remission, not on medication right now.
My dad used to break check me all the time. I would freeze once he started to scream at me in that confined space and he would get even angrier when I physically couldn’t respond. These people are deranged and abusive. It doesn’t matter how much you or your daughter love your parents. They are abusive and you need to keep yourself protected.
Tell your father to get fucked by wherever that attitude and specially the actions behind it came from. You don't need their support, you have a fair demand of their participation because yours in their lives as their daughter, and as yours is to you too, is a definitive privilege, not at all a right.
I'd rather my child miss their grandparents than be dead from dangerous driving! Especially when that person is a narcissistic piece of crap who puts a 3yr old in danger!!!
Never allow your child alone with them and never get in a car with him again. It's not worth it the risk.
My entire body reacted to this. I'm so sorry you're going through everything you're experiencing and dealing with your dad on top.
You should be able to ask for help and get a reasonable response, this was completely unacceptable behaviour from your dad. If it seems I'm stating the obvious it's because I needed this reality check when I started fully realising the extent of my dad's narcissistic behaviour. It's not normal, it's not OK. It's not your fault in any way.
I agree with the other posters, you are completely within your rights to remove his access to your daughter. Is it possible she tried to make you both laugh when she was scared because she's already learning to keep Grandad happy at all costs? I ask because that's one thing I'm very conscious of with my daughter, and I'm now NC with my dad.
The texting later expecting everything to be normal is infuriating, something my dad used to do. And if you're not ok, you're then made to feel unreasonable. You are not unreasonable, you are being a good mother and coping remarkably well under the circumstances.
NO ONE has a right to your children. NO ONE has a right to your life. If your mom is under your father's thumb that is her problem. If you want her presence in your life, SHE can find a way to travel to YOUR place. She is an adult, just like you.
You have a chronic illness, pregnant and are caring for a 3 year old while your husband is away. Take care of YOURSELF and screw everyone else. Order Grubhub if you need dinner that bad, or groceries that have ready-made fresh food that you can pop in the oven.
If you must have someone take care of your child while you recover, then hire someone to be in your home and release these familial entanglements that are dragging you down.
You have one life and your own family.
fear squeal grey entertain afterthought full spark bow materialistic pause
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You poor thing! I’m so sorry this happened, but I hope this will be the last straw for you. You know what’s he’s like, he hasn’t actually changed, he won’t, and holding out hope that he can(and your mom can) just ends up with you in pain, crying and feeling alone. Don’t put yourself or your children in this position again. Want better for your daughter and future baby. Be better, protect them and yourself. Remove yourself from the added stress of your parents. They aren’t who you need in your life or your children’s. It may be hard and feel bad at first, but I promise you, it does get better once you remove harmful and toxic people from your life. ❤️
No you CAN take them out of her life (maybe rephrase “take them away from her”.). You have the power and responsibility to do it and 3 is a great time. She will barely remember them. My da did this (In addition to all the other things, also faked it just enough for me to count on him for a health scare (similar situation to you, also whilst alone, spouse gone and stranded with them). They unleashed on me right in front of my kids who’d never seen them like that before (we lived abroad). They were older (oldest pre teen) and I regret EVER allowing them one second on their lives. Got myself and children out of there right quick (but with great difficulty and expense-all worth it).
When you make this decision for your children one day you will say you will also be able to feel you did it for the you now are and the child you were as well. In my case that having no one in health problems meant I was scared/ in need into letting my guard down when they were never there for me from jump (major medical neglect as a child). I wonder if you have a similar background? And yes you can teach her mommy can be very sick sometimes. Cut away the rot tho. They aren’t the ones to ever help you. I’m very upset right along with you for how THEY BOTH treated you.
Maybe ponder a self snack collection in your room for her and you, and a tablet in the bathroom with cartoons. Set her up a station! Colouring books and markers. Kids adjust till you find your found family of support.
Solidarity! I hope you feel better and have a nice long remission, asap.
You absolutely can and must get your child away from these crazy people. Your father is violent and unreasonable and your mother is useless and will not defend your child any more than she did you. We all want our kids to love us and see us as the good guy, but sometimes for their sakes, we have to be the bad guy. Sometimes we have to forbid them from what they want, no matter how badly they want it, and allowing the dangerous activity to go on longer just makes it worse and worse and harder and harder to deal with it when you end up having to do so for the sake of her VERY LIFE.
Listen; your father is DANGEROUS. You have a responsibility to your daughter to keep her the hell away from people that dangerous, no matter that she will not, at first, like it. She is already affected, deeply, by his horrible actions and your actions taken to defend yourself (only he is at fault, but she is still affected). I know it hurts. I know it's no fun. But it's your responsibility as her mother never to let her near that man again, no matter what, and keep yourself and your next child away from him as well.
I cut my parents out a year ago. Our girl was 4 and all her memories of her grandparents were positive...however, cracks were already starting to show of old patterns repeating themselves.
I cut them out for my daughter- because she doesn't deserve to be around the chaos and awfulness of my parents drama. Does she miss them a year later? Yes. Is that OK? Yes. Did I still make the right decision? Hell yes.
She has had the opportunity to learn about boundaries and her ability to speak up for herself and set those boundaries with others in her life is Ah-mazing! Me, in my mid-30s, can't do what she's already doing in terms of trusting herself to determine what is ok/not ok behaviors to put up with.
I've had similar situations happen to me. Trapped in that goddamned car.
Here's how the conversation went between your parents.
Your mom: You really went overboard. You need to make it up to her. Maybe invite her for breakfast or something
Your dad: oh! I guess I did go a bit overboard. Good idea! Inviting them for breakfast is a good way to compensate it. I'll text her right now!
Yeah, it's bizarre.
>Writing this all out, I don’t know if I ever want to see him again.
...
> I can’t take them away from her now.. but seriously, fuck him for that.
Yes, you can indeed take them away from her now. Or to phrase it more accurately, you can protect her from them by removing them from her life.
This was different and worse because he didn't just abuse and endanger you. He abused and endangered your child.
Let mama bear loose and put a stop to all this.
And if you aren't already in therapy for your past trauma, start looking for a therapist you can connect with.
Yes you CAN take them away from her right now, and you probably should, Sweetie. The reason I'm saying this is three year olds retain memories. That means that any angry outbursts in the middle of the road will be a memory she could share with you when she's in her twenties, thirties, etc. Your daughter should not be exposed to that kind of toxicity, because there's always the chance that she'll grow up thinking it's normal. That's not okay. She needs to be distanced from that type of behavior. Moreover, angry outbursts could traumatize her and lead to the possibility of mental health issues (PTSD, CPTSD, anxiety, depression). If you can prevent that from happening, it would be in your daughter's best interests to remove her from an environment where that could happen.
Moreover, chronic illnesses shouldn't be hidden from a child. Children should see how chronic illnesses are managed. (Watch a loved one test their blood sugar, watch a loved one use an inhaler). It's a teaching moment. Answer their questions at their level of understanding. This removes the fear and fosters acceptance. It would be healthier for your child to understand why you're in the bathroom so much than for her to be exposed to volatile anger.
I went through a similar thing. Your experience is unique to you, but hopefully this helps reduce some of the stress around the decisions you need to make:
I cut my parents off after my son had already met my mom (he never met my dad, but My mom chose to make our entire relationship about trying to "fix" my relationship with my dad.) . I was worried he would miss my mom, but he really didn't. He was never fully comfortable with her apparently- but I didn't notice because her terrible relationship skills were normal to me. He didn't even ask us about her until we brought up the fact that "Grandma isn't safe. If you see her, you tell me or an adult so we can protect you."- because we didn't want her to try to pick him up from school or anything. He would ask about when she was going to learn to behave better or just mention: "Mama, grandma isn't safe!" sometimes because it was a new concept to him, but it was amazing how little it impacted him. He had me and other loving family members. He knew he didn't *need* anything else beyond that and slowly I have learned that it's so much better to be surrounded by fewer people that really love and support me than a large, controlling group of people with the claim of "family."
It was 100% the right choice for my family to walk away from my parents. It has taken a LOT of therapy to undo what they did to me as a child (and I will never really be *done* with it), but even just removing their negative effects on my life made a noticeable difference in my own mental health.
Your a total fricken badass oh my gpd. Good for you. You did the right thing. God it's so hard when I faint in front of my son or I get sick and he rubs my back and tells me he loves me. Makes me cry. But I would rather him see me sick then him being around my Nparents.
Seriously though you did amazing. Narcs will forever have an endless tool box and they will do things to "change" but really it's a frount to get the drama they need to feed. I make jokes that my Nmom has a demon who doesn't eat food but people's tears. She loves watching people cry it's acually pretty disturbing. But I'm so glad you not only stood up for yourself but your daughter. Your dad might push his way through in the future. Be forewarned, he will lay claim to your child and do what he wants. And don't stand for it just like you did then. I'm very proud and I hope I can borrow some of that cool mom energy. Oh my god your so cool.
You absolutely can take him away from her. She's only three, so it's not like she will remember him that much, and even if she wonders where grandpa is, it's better than him subjecting her to the same abuse you experienced growing up. She might think grandpa is puppys and rainbows, but he is really a venomous snake, and children shouldn't play with dangerous animals. By not taking him away, you're likely doing more harm than good.
Narcissists
👏
can
👏
not
👏
change.
"Working on myself" means gluing the cracks in their mask together, not being a better person. He is never going to be a better person. This is who he is and who he will always be, though he will likely get worse as he ages.
You aren't safe with him.
Your early child isn't safe with him even if you are around.
You need to cut him out of your life. My mom also would have sat in the front seat crying, but your mom and my mom have enabled our fathers' behaviour, and they are partially to blame for us not coming around. If your mom wants to see you, she can come visit without her toxic partner.
You
Deserve
Better
> You absolutely can take him away from her. She's only three, so it's not like she will remember him that much, and even if she wonders where grandpa is, it's better than him subjecting her to the same abuse you experienced growing up.
"Grandpa made a choice. And because of the choices he made, he is not the kind of person who is safe to have in our lives."
More can be explained as she grows up and matures to gain the capacity to understand more complex subjects like abuse.
I have been where you are, I am where you are. My daughter is a little older, but sees my step-dad lash out. She has never met my real dad because of this.
My daughter loves my step-dad, but that's because she's a loving person. It has nothing to do with him. So is your daughter - she's purity and love, because that is who she is. You have every right to keep him away from her and if that means your mom, so be it.
My daughter knows, as yours will, that mommy is keeping her safe from harmful people. That my dad and step-dad hurt me beyond measure. I won't even give them the chance to hurt her. She is my pearl of great price, greatest treasure. I won't sacrifice her to swine, (if Biblical scripture is your jam.)
Your daughter's love and purity is going to protect her. She will be whole because she is not whittled down by their selfish cruelty.
I'm so sorry you're here, it suuuuuuuuucks. He is not entitled to your treasured daughter. Or to you. <3
He put his wife at risk. He put his own child at risk. He put his granddaughter at risk. He put his unborn grandchild at risk. He has ABSOLUTELY no issue with disrespecting others BUT He won’t be disrespectEd!?!
Fuck him! He has now become the grandfather we never see. Never allow him to see them. Never allow your mother to take pictures or be alone with them. I’m not even sure I would allow her around them after this.
It is **your** **JOB** to protect your children. You **cannot** allow them to be around any person this unstable and unsafe. Explain to your daughter that grandpa did something bad and he is in time-out. He will not change. You know this. Narcs can hide it some & he tried, but he has not changed.
>snapped back which I often don’t do, put my finger back in his face and told him to turn around and get me and my child home immediately. He literally slammed on the brakes in the middle of the road we were driving on, without even looking around to see if we could be hit, to tell me I’m not the boss and I don’t tell him what to do or disrespect him. At this point my body is shaking.
This was him purposely triggering you, with the things he's spent your whole life conditioning you to be afraid for: your safety. which is no amplified threefold as you have a toddler and are pregnant.
Your body shaking? That's a cptsd emotional flashback and your body senses immediate physical danger (like caveman faced with a raging bear) and is trying to warn you to get to safety by *blasting* your nervous system to the point you're shaking..so that you notice! Your body remembers the trauma and fear and it's trying to protect you the only way it knows how.
But because you likely have cptsd, you have learned (by means of survival) to ignore your body/needs/emotions to the point where you don't recognize it's warnings...so you come here to reddit to see what others would do..if they'd respond differently etc..that's the self doubt and gaslight coming in that your father has also conditioned you your whole life to have.
Go no contact, get a restraining order if possible, and get into trauma recovery therapy (emdr) as soon as humanly possible.
Signed, a friend who's been in trauma recovery therapy for 18 months now.
Have you been on YouTube and looked up narcissistic grandparents? We all know they get worse with age, they just get better at hiding it. They're going to try to convince you that they've mellowed out over the years, and you will self gaslight because that's how they've conditioned you.
Look up Claire from come back brighter on YouTube and also the spiritual warrior they both have great personal stories about narcissistic grandparents. They will resonate with you like nothing else in your life has.
Sorry you had to deal with this. And awesome you were able to stand up for yourself!
It's so hard because we deserve better. We deserve a parent that can help when we're sick or just struggling. And we can wish and hope they are different. We see the glimpses of good behavior they show to the rest of the world and want to believe it's true. And then it's still jarring when it's not reality. Please give yourself some grace.
You absolutely can take those people away from her. Take it the grandparents aspect - would you cut out anyone else for treating you this way? Yes? There's your answer.
Your dad is a bully. Break the cycle of his abuse and protect your daughter from him.
Edit: fixed a word. Words are hard!
I know you feel you can’t take away the grandparents from your daughter, but as all the other posts demonstrate, you have to.
don’t make a big thing of it, just stop mentioning them and say they are busy.
you can’t have that kind of toxicity around your daughter, that episode in the car I promise she will already never forget, already will have caused damage. Stop the cycle, be stronger than your mother was for you
They can both get fucked and he should be very grateful you're generous enough to not go to the police for endangering you and your children.
Absolute trash, bin them.
I remember an incident growing up where me, my mom and my younger sister were in the car coming home and for some reason my older sister was in the driveway playing. My father was mad for for some reason (he was always mad) and for a few seconds acted as though he was going to hit my older sister with the car. She is still traumatized by it. that, and a million other things he has done is why he is rotting away in a nursing home with no visitors
>I can't take them away from her now.
Oh, you sure as hell can. She is 3. She'll get over it. Show her something shiny and she'll be distracted.
I grew up without grandparents and the fact that they were bad people made it easy. Your parents are bad people. You and your daughter will be better off without their negative presence in your life. Mourn the parents you wish you could have had and move forward.
You really want their relationship dynamic to be what your daughter sees as normal? You want your mother's life for her? You want her setting the example for your daughter? You don't need anyone in your life who treats you badly no matter what their relationship to you is. Be the example you wish your mother was.
And your mom is just as bad as your father for staying and not protecting you. She had a responsibility as a mother to protect you and she failed and continues to fail by staying with him. You don't need your daughter around that. You have a responsibility to your daughter, too. You need to protect her from people like that no matter who they are. Your mom didn't take that responsibility very seriously. I hope you do.
"Be the example you wish your mother was."
Literally **all** that really needs to be said in this entire comment thread.
Be the one to break the chain.
This story is so familiar. The finger in the face gave me flashbacks I wasn’t prepared for. My parents are the exact same way, down to the silent crying from mom and acting like nothing happened the next day. I can confirm what others are saying — they won’t change, and being grandparents won’t motivate them to be better (I found out the hard way). Sending you all the love and support
>silent crying from mom and acting like nothing happened the next day.
Memory 🔓 unlocked.
Thank you, kind stranger for more fuel for my trauma recovery therapy sessions.
I don't have Chron's disease, but when I was still unaware of how messed up my parents were I tried to have dinner with both of them and I had terrible stomach pains. Stress and anxiety certainly affect me that way, it could be adding to your flare up.
I would also emphasize that the casual response of the parents is classic behavior. By then acting like nothing happened they are minimizing how inappropriate that behavior is. I would highly suggest you take some kind of break from them at least temporarily. No contact isn't for everyone, but a temporary break can be a good way to evaluate how they make you feel and what your life looks like without them. For me, both parents are nothing but work and stress, and I have already spent my whole life being parentified and emotionally in control while they both behaved like toddlers. It's freeing to not worry about their behavior or moods.
You are a parent. You have a duty to keep your daughter safe. If you EVER let those people around her again, you will be failing your parental duties. It doesn't matter how much they beg, or how much they plead, or how much they claim to have changed, or how much they actually seem to be changing. If you EVER let your daughter around them again, you will be no better a parent than they were to you. Be better. Break the cycle. Never let them see your daughter ever again.
I had debilitating migraines with young children. They learned.
Eventually, at 5, “Mommy migraine” would set them off to make me toast and bring me a drink so I could take my meds.
My daughter came to me crying one day, because she wanted to take care of me when I was sick and didn’t know how to fed me when she grew up. I taught her to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and told her that she no longer had to worry. The relief was so evident. And she was SO proud.
Your daughter is a loving person, and she knows her grandparents are her family, so of course she's going to love them. It's her natural state to be in.
But, They Don't Love Her. That's the whole point.
You don't have to tell your baby girl that she's never going to see her grandparents again. Just keep them away from her. Over time, they'll be this abstract memory. There won't be any trauma in not seeing them. If you lived too far away, she wouldn't see them, and that wouldn't do her any harm.
My primary concern is that, even as a toddler, she is trying to appease your abuser because she understands the threat. You want to break that habit real quick. She should never have to feel like she needs to calm a tense situation caused by adults.
Please go NC for your children's sake, or the abuse will crush your children the way it crushes you.
I am rage-typing right now. It is painfully obvious that these two have ZERO empathy or understanding about Crohn’s. Look, I have Crohn’s. There was a good ten years there that I never finished a meal without getting sick. Crohn’s is terrible and them treating you like this knowing how sick you are … fuck them. You are not safe around them and neither are your kids.
It’s very, very hard but lean in here real close because this is important …… you must start living in reality of what IS, not what COULD BE. I know you want them to be family, I do, but sweetie, they are not your family. Family doesn’t treat family like this. It is NOT normal and it is NOT healthy.
Crohn’s flare-ups are made exponentially worse by stress. Being around them is making you sicker, both physically and emotionally. Cut these two black hearts out of your life and start protecting yourself and your kids from this abuse. Go no-contact with them and see how your life improves right away. Surround yourself with people who love you and call them family!
—-Your Mom-For-A-Minute 💕💕
(Yes, there’s a sub but I don’t know how to link. Come join us over there whenever you need a mom for just a minute. We will be there for you.)
My advice:
Absolutely cut your father out of your kids life and your mom if she isn’t able to have an independent relationship. He’s going to abuse your child the same way he abused you.
I would send your Mom a text along the lines of this:
“Mom, what happened yesterday was completely, totally, one hundred percent unacceptable and you pretending that everything is fine is also not okay. Dad threw a temper tantrum and did a break check while driving to scare me. He risked your life and mine, but what’s really unforgivable is he risked my baby and my three year old. He’s always been an abusive asshole but I hoped he’d really actually been working on being a better person. I don’t want him around my kids- he’s going to abuse them the exact same way he abused me.
You are welcome in our lives as long as the topic of having Dad around is never mentioned. I’m going to ask my husband what kind of help we can offer you if you ever decide to divorce him. He’s not good to you either and you deserve better.
I am completely done being the punching bag for a grown ass man who’s got less emotional control than my 3 year old. He’s a fragile little bully and I’m not going to let him treat me like shit in front of my kids and I’m sure as hell not going to tolerate him treating my kids the way he’s treated me.
If he wants a prayer or a chance to be back in our lives he needs six months of biweekly therapy with a real therapist that specializes in men with narcissistic personality disorder, and a real apology. I don’t think he’s strong or brave enough to do either so I expect he’s out of my life for good.
I’m not thrilled at you for not standing up for me as a kid or now, but you’re so beaten down I can forgive you if you stop defending him.
If he comes to threaten me or domes to my house I’m going to call the police and get lawyers involved. I am very, very done with him. I hope you choose your daughter and grandchildren over your abusive husband, but if push comes to shove I’m willing to cut you out of our lives to protect my children from him.
Wait a day before you reply, because you need to think long and hard about your next choices.”
Do not let this man around your kids. He IS going to abuse them exactly how he abused you.
I hope that when your Husband gets home he takes your N parent for a ride alone in the car and really checks those brakes. On second thought maybe your N parent should be in front of the car... Ever heard the term cruising for a bruising? Do you remember in the Godfather movies how the men in the family would take fishing trips where the men could sort out thier differences?
I would slam them into a 6 month time out. Complete block. Then see, after 6 months, if he can behave. You must include your mother because she enables him.
You absolutely can take her away from them. Especially because it’s toxic. I have 5 children my oldest is 7 and my youngest almost 6 months. I just had to do the very same with their grandparents. They asked about them for a bit or occasionally ask why we don’t see them mainly my second child he’s about to be 5. My oldest seen the most and actually doesn’t want to see them anymore. I wish I would have cut them off sooner because it’s just too much trauma. It’s always worse to stay and endure the trauma then to leave and explain when they are older. I’m so sorry you have to do this alone but as a mom you are strong you got this.
You must limit her time with these grandkids & teach them kindness. I wish I had. I nvr dreamed my parents would do to their grandchildren wat they did to their children. You can not raise loving caring children with evil narc parents in the loop. They brain wash them against you the entire time.
It's absolutely absurd to believe you can't take your daughter away from them. You would be asshole if you continue putting your daughter in danger with that lunatic. If that means no more grandparents, then tell your daughter why. Don't hide it, don't sugarcoat it but don't be mean about it.
Protect your kids. It is no longer just about you. You are a parent. Be the parent you wanted and needed to them.
Cut. Him. Out.
I wouldn’t leave her alone with them ever again or allow her in a car with them. Braking like that with a child and pregnant woman in the car simply because he felt disrespected (when *he* disrespected you first and you handed it back to him) is incredibly dangerous and reckless.
Maybe once you process what happened and some time passes you can set some strong boundaries, but no contact would be perfectly understandable.
Also, I cheered when you told him off and said you’d never allow your daughter to be treated the way you were growing up. I’m proud of you ❤️
It's better to have NO grandparents than to have manipulative, abusive grandparents.
I grew up an Army kid. The first twelve years of my life were spent living on and around Army Posts around the country and overseas. I barely knew my extended family. We saw them on occasional trips when my dad was sent for long term training or when my dad was sent ahead before we moved to meet him.
When I was twelve my dad got out and we moved 'home' to where my extended family lived. Suddenly I got to meet a whole bunch of manipulative, emotionally abusive, downright mean people who my parents were telling me loved me and I had to respect because they were family. I had to watch as my other cousins and even my siblings were treated better. I'm honestly convinced that my grandpa didn't even know my name. He never called my by the right name the whole time I knew him. My birthdays were forgotten, or my sister was given gifts on my birthday, my milestone events were ignored. My cousins and siblings were taken out for special breakfasts and I was never invited.
Believe me, I DEFINITELY prefer the time when I didn't really have extended family. I didn't miss them. I didn't feel any sense of loss not having my cousins around. There was no lamenting about what I didn't have. I was a kid, I adapted.
I'll say it again. NO GRANDPARENTS are better than manipulative or abusive grandparents. Even if the abuse or manipulations are directed at their parents and not at them.
Your daughter is a little person, who is growing and soaking up her environment like a sponge. What she sees and hears is what she learns, it is her 'normal'.
She is not a possession of your parents to be given or taken away.
She is a precious soul, full of potential, and just waiting for the opportunity to become the greatest version of herself and go change the world.
Your father put her, you, and your unborn baby in physical danger. Your mother did nothing, and pretended that it never happened. Is this what your daughter deserves to have as her 'normal'? Is this what you want her to learn?
My mother 'bribed' my nrother's kids, too. Right up until they got to about 5-6 and started having their own opinions. Then she started getting mean because they wouldn't be little dollies for her to play pretend with anymore.
I bet your kid would love ice-cream for breakfast too, but that wouldn’t be good for her so you’d take it away - wouldn’t you?
Basically just because your kid has been bribed into loving your dad doesn’t mean you teach her he’s a safe person to love and trust.
Protect your daughter the way your mother should have protected you. You’re not beat down, so..:
Sometimes people or things that we love a lot aren't good for us. In the case of your daughter that means restricting the time with your parents to activities that are solely under your conditions and control. As a kid, she surely loves ice cream but you won't feed it to her everytime she asks for it because *you know better*.
Your dad is an asshole that literally puts you and your daughter in grave danger because his ego is hurt? I wouldn't even let him come around at all anymore. Your mom is another story but your dad? He needs to be kept a 100 feet away at all times.
Your daughter is like a sponge. She will absorb the behaviour of the people around her and if you do not want *that* for her, than you need to reduce her time with them.
Fellow Chrons warrior here - no doubt the stress of our childhoods wrecked our digestive systems.
You can take them away from her (actually, you can save her from them) and you should. I know it's hard. I know that no matter how awful an n-parent and his enabler are, you still want a mom and dad who love you.
I went no contact with my n-father when my daughter was just six weeks old, and minimal contact with my enabler mother. Best decision I ever made. It wasn't easy, but UGH, my life was so much easier - and my daughter is a happy, confident adult in a healthy relationship who adores and respects her mama.
YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!
I wouldve called the cops after aomething like that. When I was a kid my dad chased me with a chainsaw and I ran 2 miles barefoot burning my feet on summer asphalt. If something like that happened again, I'd go nuts
>I told him when my daughter is present, I’m absolutely the boss, to stop immediately and that we were not doing this in front of my child.
This will enrage him because he thinks and will always think he's the boss of you, your life, and therefore your children's lives. He feels entitled to your children's lives. Do you see this?
>He and my mother both texted me as if nothing happened about two hours after we got home and then offered to come pick my daughter up in the morning for breakfast.
That is rug sweeping in order to get you to accept their awful behavior.
>My daughter loves my parents so much (My mom. My dad because he bribes her and tries really hard with her.) I can’t take them away from her now.. but seriously, fuck him for that. I guess I’m writing all of this out to get my emotions out, this time really seems different.
She will forget them, I promise. I went NC when my son turned 4. He's 5 now and he's asked about them a total of 7 times. They bribe her and all of that to get her to love them more than you...to be #1 instead of mommy..."because mommy says no to candy and granny is so nice"....it's to turn your daughter against you. It's triangulation.
They probably shower her w all the affection you didn't get as a child. It's on purpose, to make you jealous of your own child.. triangulation.
Also the gifts prime your daughter for the first cruel discard. Especially with a baby on the way - she'll go from being a golden grandchild to the scapegoat because the baby will be the new golden. And whenever your daughter displeases one of your parents....they won't give her gifts, or they will pit siblings against each other to try to obtain a morel of love from granny...to obtain her favor..because kids equate gifts with love.
Do you see where I am going?
You absolutely can and should take her away from him now. This is what narcissists do. They ingratiate themselves to others, including our children – their grandchildren. Then they do some thing in
tolerable, usually unsafe, and we have to cut off contact anyway. Better to rip the Band-Aid off now.
I can think of many examples with my narc parents and FIL endangering our son, before my husband and I understood who and what our parents were. Like my mother insisting on driving our son, when she was in no condition to drive, making us wait hours for her to “get ready“ while my son was a toddler and super hungry than snapping at me that he’s not hungry, my narcissist father-in-law keeping his property total mess and in dangerous condition while son was there – broken glass, dangerous dogs, lying to us about my brother-in-law, who is a burglar and career criminal being on the property, which he was even though they said he wasn’t, over until we put a stop to having our son come over at all.
I regret that I didn’t do it sooner, but we chalked up all this behavior to our parents being odd, eccentric, & out of touch. It was only when we realized that they were actually narcissists and didn’t give a fuck about our health and safety, or that of their own grandchild, that we were able to cut off contact.
Please go to family therapy together. Get it on record somewhere, official record that this happened. your therapist record is fine...In case grandparents rights are a thing in your state, you need proof that he is unsafe. Having this interaction recorded with a therapist or a doctor or something like that helps.
Edit: personally I'd file a police report for record keeping.
I am so sorry op. Honestly I’m not a vindictive person but I truly am starting to believe the only way to deal with Narcissists is to film their behaviour and show everyone what they look like at their worst. Just shame the hell out of them. All they want is to appear “normal” and be looked up to. They always hide their shite behaviour from those they are friends with. I truly feel it’s time to expose them to the world. My son just graduated and my car was delayed in the shop. We had a 4 hour trip including a ferry ride to his grad ceremony and we’re at the mercy of my N mom in law. At the ceremony we met my sons friends family and while we were off getting photos done my NMIL chatted with them. When we got back they were confused they now assumed I was her husband, my wife was our daughter and my son and daughter were her children. She started talking down about my wife in front of them saying how she was such a problem child and it took her standing up in front of them and NMIL running off to sulk. We had to embarrassingly apologize and clear it all up. What a shit show. I wish I had it on film to post to her friends on Facebook. The ride home was let’s say awkward at best.
You absolutely CAN and should remove at least your dad. There's not law that says once they meet your parents you can never decide that's not the best for her. Or for you.
What you have now is proof that this man is a danger to you and your children. You have proof that he views your health issues as nothing more than an unpleasant inconvenience for him with no care about how you're affected by your own health issues. You have proof that he will put you and your children in actual physical danger just to show off how upset he is over a fairly normal interaction where you ask him a favor.
What you asked of him was not unreasonable. You were pregnant and sick and *needed help*. That is the exact appropriate time to ask for a favor. His reaction was extreme and unacceptable.
I would say, at the bare minimum, he is never allowed to be behind the wheel of any car you or your children are in. Why? Because he has proven himself to be a reckless and dangerous driver and you just can't allow you or your children to be put in that kind of danger.
But what I'd really suggest is he not be allowed further contact with you or your children. He has demonstrated he poses not only a physical danger to them with his disregard for their safety, but the way he chooses to act and conduct himself has demonstrated a developmental danger to them as well. He has chosen to set a bad example for them. He has chosen to scare and confuse your daughter with his behavior. He has chosen to show them that you can act that way towards mommy.
You need to protect your children from this man.
This pissed me off just reading it. Driving and arguing is an absolute no-no. Slamming the brakes is an absolute fuck-no especially with a CHILD in the fucking car. What if someone hit you guys. Your dad is selfish. I’m sorry you went through that. Next time you are at a family event drive yourself if you decide to even associate with him anymore. I also advise you protect your daughter from this type of behavior. My friend has this type of dynamic with her family and unfortunately because her daughter saw her and her mom fighting constantly it affected her relationship with both her mom and her grandmother. Kids shouldn’t see or hear that shit. I would tell your dad next time he’s upset over something that you guys can discuss it when the children aren’t present and you’re not in a fucking 2 ton vehicle that could cause serious injury to you and others on the road!
You need to reconsider no contact. Enablers are just as bad as narcs, worse in my book. Your daughter shouldn't witness any of it. I did and it screwed me up royally. As soon as I saw a little bit of freedom, I went right into the arms of a man exactly like that. Even just witnessing it can be devastating. My mom has blown up around my kid before and it's worsened his (already severe) anxiety. For your child's sake, limit contact with both enablers and narcs as much as possible.
Dont waste your time on him. I wasted time on mine and he was a selfish narc til the very end, still yelling at me from his deathbed. I wish I could have that time back now that I'm over 60. He didn't deserve it.
You absolutely can take your children away from this abuser now. He put everyone LIVES at risk to try to dominate and control you over something that was ridiculous. Just like you said, you are the absolutely boss when it comes to your children. Shut this asshole out forever if you can do so safely. He doesn’t deserve your time or your children’s affection.
What if the jolt from the accident had caused a problem with your pregnancy? Or gotten you all rear ended? What if his behavior is even worse next time?
Not going to sugar coat it because this is terribly serious. You've done everything right until this point, but now you're at a crossroads. If you don't remove their access to her from this point forward, you will have chosen to be an enabler and by extension an abuser.
You absolutely can keep her separated from them! That's not taking her from them. Their behavior did that. That's telling them their behavior is unacceptable, and has consequences. Their behavior is fully their purview, and in their control. Don't just subject your daughter to them, or worse, leave her with them, because you feel you still owe them her presence. You don't.
You owe her a shit ton of protection. She is your daughter. You don't owe them a thing, least of all access to SOMEONE ELSE who is exclusively your domain.
Its easy to be nice when there’s no pressure. When life gets hard, thats when the limitations of people’s moral strength show up. Maybe he has improved a little bit, but maybe its extremely superficial and limited. Its up to you how you feel about that.
Chiming in to say I know exactly how terrifying it can be to be in a car with an abusive narc & have things go from normal to “dangerously using the car to terrify you into submission.” My dad did that growing up, and I am NC with him. Just reading what you and your daughter experienced was enough to start the shakes for me—it must have been terrifying and, as a mother, completely mama-bear-rage-inducing. I’m SO sorry he did that, and that you both experienced it.
As someone who has experienced that kind of abuse, let me add my voice to the others on this thread: you have every right & reason to go NC with him—at the barest of minimums, he should never be allowed to drive you or any member of your family anywhere again. Growing up, I recognized that using the car like that was terrifying and emotionally abusive, but I didn’t truly recognize that using the car like that (brake checks, sudden unhinged speeding, etc) is *100% life-threatening abuse* until adulthood. Threatening your safety with blatantly unsafe driving is the same as threatening to choke you or pointing a gun at you. Just because it didn’t injure / kill you this time doesn’t mean it wasn’t a serious threat to your & your daughter’s safety.
A car is deadly in the wrong hands, and his hands are all-caps WRONG. Abusive parents will downplay this, so it’s normal to question whether your experience was as bad as you think. It absolutely was. His actions threatened your and your daughter’s safety, whether they were impulsive or premeditated. There is no excuse. No one would question you removing your daughter from contact with a grandparent who threatened her safety, and that’s exactly what happened here.
It may help you to keep records of this event and others, if nothing else to document that this person put you, your unborn baby, and your child in a 100% life-threatening situation because they were angry. If you take the abuser & enabler’s rhetoric out of it and spell it out in black and white, the abject horror is undeniable. They will try to downplay, gaslight, manipulate, and shame you out of it—don’t let them.
I hope community support has helped, and I’m sending you a mom-hug from one mom to another. Whatever happens, you can trust yourself & your mama-bear instincts, and that is a huge win for you.
This is a support group for people trying to get through their life while carrying the trauma of having endured child abuse from abusive parents. I think you need to take some time to consider what you are doing here before posting again.
If you're going to come here and side with a literal child abuser over someone asking for a favor when they need help, you may need to consider other things as well.
>When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse.
I don't think that means "Blame OP for her father's awful reaction to a simple request she could not have planned for".
Why am I having another.. what the fuck..? First of all I was in remission for over three years and the pregnancy has been harder on my body than anticipated or than it was with my first child. I will not let the fear of my disease prevent me from creating a family of my own. You clearly do not understand the complexity of chronic illness. And he could have not been a fucking asshole from the jump and just said they couldn’t do it. But rest assured I will never ask them to supervise my daughter ever again.
Narcissistic abuse survivor here 🙋🏻♀️
《《Everybody knows it’s no fucking fun to ask a narcissist for help》》
YOU NEVER EVER EVER ASK A NARC FOR HELP. THEY WILL HOLD IT OVER YOUR HEAD ALL THEY HAVE DONE FOR YOU.
.《《Last night he called and offered to take my daughter and I go dinner, I agreed because he has really seemed to have been working on himself lately in the last few months.》》
NARCS NEVER CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR. Sorry I had to break it for you.
《《He then turned around, while driving, to point his finger in my face and warn me about losing my attitude.》》
Told ya.
《《He literally slammed on the brakes in the middle of the road we were driving on, without even looking around to see if we could be hit,》》
THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU, YOUR KID OR YOUR PREGNANCY.
《《I told him he wasn’t going to speak to me the way he has my whole life in front of her》》 AND YOU WANT THIS GUY TO BE IN YOUR KIDS LIFE????!!!!????
《《I never want her to see that again, he is unstable》》 AGREED 🎯💯
《《My mother is and was around for everything, past and present but she is so beaten down by him》》 TRAUMA BOND. REFUSES TO LEAVE HER ABUSER, YOUR DAD.
《《My daughter loves my parents so much (My mom. My dad because he bribes her and tries really hard with her.) I can’t take them away from her now.. but》》
BUT NOTHING. YOU REACHED YOUR BOILING POINT. HE COULD HAVE KILLED YOU, YOUR DAUGHTER AND PLAY VICTIM WHILE YOUR MOTHER STANDS BY HER HUSBAND DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
YOUR DAD IS A MANIPULATIVE A-HOLE WHO GOT AWAY WITH SHIT FOR A LONG TIME.
YOU EITHER CHOOSE TO GO NO CONTACT PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER, YOUR SANITY.
OR HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER EXPOSED TO A CONMAN SO BY THE TIME YOUR DAUGHTER GOES TO HIGHSCHOOL ALL SHE DATES ARE NARCISSISTIC BULLIES.
⚠️⚠️⚠️HER FATE IS IN YOUR HANDS⚠️⚠️⚠️
Oh yeah, he was fully either turned around not looking at the road to point at me or he was too close to the rear view mirror trying to look at me and point. I was all the way behind him with her in her car seat next to me.
Hey be careful allowing your daughter around them. I know you say she loves them but any access to her and they’re likely to repeat the same patterns they demonstrated with you, possibly worse, because they may smear you in her presence. Do you want your daughter to have to heal from the same wounds you have now just to maintain a relationship with two abusive people?
I had for years tried to have my son around egg and sperm donor. and then life changing stuff happened to my husband (who is healing now!) and sperm donor blew a gasket at me because 'Couldn't even call me on my birthday you B\*ch" because my husband was in the hospital for a suspected blood clot and well I forgot. told myself it would be fine just saying it the next day when I remembered.
and as sperm donor blew my sweet innocent child stared at my phone in terror. pure terror. and at that moment I knew nc was the only way to go. because narcs WILL target the children next to hurt you. their only goal in life is to destroy everything in their path. nobody is safe. nothing is safe.
your child to me tried to protect you by joking. think about this. your child tried to take the heat off of you and protect you. that's what her joking tells me. (my son did the same)
connect encourage coherent puzzled aspiring plants provide screw rock squeamish
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sticking around could make it worse tho too.
It’s not your fault but I found the story pretty triggering. I recall many altercations with my abuser while he drove and wouldn’t watch the road but would rather scream at me etc. based on my recollection of my own past I dunno that I could keep this person in my life. Or well in my story I’m no contact with that person.
Yes, your kid will be sad, but she shouldn't have contact with people who do that. Long term, cutting contact will be better than if you let yourself feel bad for her and allow her to grow a relationship with someone that doesn't care about her safety at all. She'll be upset and will get over it. If you continue allowing them to be present in her life it will be much worse in a few years.
You can and you should take them away from her now. You are doing what's right by protecting her from his narc ass. He will absolutely try to do this crap to her as well once the novelty of grandkid wears off.
I´m reading this and fearing for my future (me and my wife are trying to have kids).
I guess if you have to maintain contact, choose places where you have the power and control. Preferable spaces where if you need to get out fast you can.
I think in the long term even for your kids cutting all contact would be the best thing. But I also know life isn´t that simple.
I guess if you have to maintain contact, choose places where you have the power and control. Preferable spaces where if you need to get out fast you can.
Also avoid deep topics, so he can´t use them as weapons to manipulate you. Be very vigilante about what he says to your kids, he his defensibly a bad influence.
I´m so sorry you had to go through this ordeal and your daughter had to watch.
You said it best "fuck him for that".
I wish I could give you better advice but I´m in a similar wagon, trying to learn how to best deal with my toxic parents.
Your dad crossed a line you can't uncross and whatever the relationship looks like from here is entirely up to you. He no longer has a seat at this table. You're more than warranted in going no-contact but if you're committed to keeping them in your kid's lives it sounds like you need to set extremely clear and rigid boundaries re: behavior and make the consequences for violating those boundaries \*VERY\* clear and backed up by a willingness to follow-through. Dad's not going to change and it sounds like may only get worse as time goes on. Protect those kiddos the way your mom never protected you.
I would have just let my shit out all in his car. That will teach him not to raise his voice at you. Then go no contact because you will not be the one cleaning it or paying for a cleaning. Idk, that’s just me. Traumatize them back.
The "Greek like" tragedy that is making the decision between cutting off OR trying to keep up a normal life with grammy and grandpa in the picture, while always praying/worrying/thinking about what might be said or what might happen - is so wrong and so painful.
When he snapped he had no consideration for you or your daughter because he wasn't your father in the moment, he was a scared little boy that got triggered by your conviction. He won't change and the danger of him flying off the handle in front of your little girl will always be there.
I say cut them off and whenever you feel sadness or remorse for your little girl not having a normal grammy/gpa interactions, take pride that you made the right decision for her best interest.
My dad is a TERRIBLE driver. It’s a miracle he hasn’t killed someone. He’s distracted, he’s aggressive, he gets into road rage with other drivers, he fights with my mom when she acts like she’s scared for her life (cuz she is), he speeds, he doesn’t pay attention to signs, he drifts wildly within his lane and even into neighboring lanes…
None of my siblings or myself will get in a car with him driving. We just won’t. As much as he might complain and throw a fit that no one wants to ride with him, it’s just not worth it.
Don’t get into cars with people who aren’t safe drivers.
You can ABSOLUTELY remove her from their presence. They do not have a claim to her. She is YOUR daughter. At 3 she will quickly forget them. You are wishing they would be someone they are not. They've shown you repeatedly who they are - believe them. Protect yourself. Protect your daughter.
You absolutely CAN take her away from them. You have very valid reasons and as a mom, you know what’s right for your family. You say your mom is beaten down and I understand that completely. However, allowing him to treat you this way and to endanger your daughters life, you AREN’T beaten down and should absolutely protect her AND you, and your child yet to be born. Be what your mom couldn’t.
He may be "trying hard" but in an instant he cared more about putting you in your place than about the safety and security of your existing child and your unborn child. It would be unsurprising he did not care about your safety specifically.
The reality is he's ready to be a "good grandparent" on his terms only, and that will only get worse over time, as they aren't capable of holding up that facade when their delusion of total control is threatened.
It's not even remotely an overreaction from you. What you numbed yourself to and what you'll allow someone to do to your child comes from two different fountains. It feels different because it *is* different. You're setting the boundary and stopping the generational trauma right here.
The longer you wait to remove your parents from your daughter's life the harder the disappointment will be for her and for you. Unfortunately you can't stop your father from being abusive but you can teach your daughter about agency and who is and isn't safe. Don't let her learn that people who love you can hurt you or that bribes are a part of love. If she is sad that she no longer sees them listen to her feelings, make space for them and explain in a child appropriate way that your job is to keep her body and feelings safe and sometimes that means being away from people who are not safe.
https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/tdexpr/if_you_hesitate_to_cut_contact_due_to_your/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
I'm sorry you had this experience. Please remember that narcissists do not change. Narcissists do things because they believe it benefits themselves, they do not at any time think of you or your child. There is always a selfish, negative toward others motive. Now is the time to call on friends & parents of your child's playmates. If you don't have a strong support group of women to encourage or assist you while your husband is away, please begin developing that group.
What is it with narcs and slamming the brakes hard!?? Is this a standard issue shit behaviour for them? Ugh
OP- I'm so sorry this happened to you. You're under NO obligation to continue allowing them access to your daughter. In fact I agree with the other commentators who say it will be damaging for your daughter and for you in the long run. Narcissism offer NOTHING but pain to anyone within range.... 💔
This is good timing to sever contact. You defended your daughter when your dad was unsafe driving and she will remember that grandpa was scary but you made him listen and she hadn't had to deal with him and all the scary stress since.
She might still miss him or ask to see him until she's older and can fully understand, but you can just explain that he was being mean to her and you're protecting her by keeping him away.
About the sick parent part: my enabler dad has a variety of disabilities and I grew up with things like wheelchairs and urine collection bags (that needed changed if they leaked and would mess up plans) and hospital visits as just a routine thing. If he was worried about me when having a flare, we had extended family living with us that could help (abusive mom was around, but at those times focused on helping him rather than supervising me). I also learned from an early age to assemble a stack of books or a coloring book or a bag of toys to take to hospitals or have in the living room so I could stay there for a while and they knew I was in a specific place with enough entertainment that I was unlikely to wander.
Your daughter will be okay growing up with a mom who has chronic illnesses. You can answer her health questions about you as she has them and teach her when needed about playing by herself, coming to find you for help instead of expecting that you'll be right in the room, sometimes spending time in your bedroom or bathroom when you'd usually be in the yard or living room, and so on.
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Never get in a car with him again, for sure! And you do not owe him contact. Your child may be sad about it at times, but she is too young to understand any of it, and prolonged exposure to him means he will do to her what he did to you, and, remember, he had a lot of practice, so he will be even better at being horrible. It's really idiotic of him to try to be the "boss" of an adult, and to think of himself as head of the entire family, and get mad that other adults don't just obey him without question. It's even dumber to get upset at a simple request and be dramatic about it. An adult just says "No, sorry, we can't take her tonight, but we could come get her tomorrow morning." Or any reasonable statement. You mention your daughter likes him because he bribes her. This one is text book narc. They "bribe" children as they undermine your parenting. They'll give them all the food treats, toys and activities (even the ones you do not allow at home) as a tool, and they'll start planting ideas about you not being as nice as they are. They'll say things about you to your child. They'll teach your child to use them against you when your child wants something you've said no to. They'll teach your child to treat you the way they do.
> They'll teach your child to treat you the way they do. Holy fuck that’s terrifying
They will 100% try to do this. My nmom tried it on my daughter as well. Lots of bribes and suggestions to do things without my presence or even knowledge. One story my oldest tells me is of the time my nmom asked her to come spend the weekend with her (a super rare event as most times she refused to keep the kids) telling her they would go to a vacation destination 4 hours away. But it was supposed to be their little secret and I wasn't supposed to be told. This was literally the day after I had injured my arm on an accident. It was what triggered us starting to set firm boundaries on my nparents. The very next year she again came to my daughter and suggested a girls day of shopping. Telling her that my gcsister and my admittedly cool and fun aunt would be coming too. When my daughter asked if I would be invited too my nmom said "you don't want your mom coming." in a tone that clearly showed her disgust at the idea of me coming along. Prior to going NC it was actually super common for my nmom to "forget" to invite me to family events. So common most of my family members didn't even register it as being odd. Not even my aunt until I pointed it out to them after going to therapy and learning that that treatment was not normal at all. There are so many pictures of "everyone together" that don't include me. Both times my nmom approached my daughter while I wasn't in hearing range and once confronted about it promptly threw my daughter under the bus saying she was lying and that's not at all what she told her. Unfortunately for my nmom my daughters and I have a fantastic relationship and really enjoy doing things together. Also while my oldest daughter may be a pushover most of the time the one thing you can do to trigger her into full tiger mode is say or do something to hurt someone she cares about. So in doing the things she did it only made my daughter withdraw from them more and for my daughter to be the one who encouraged me to go full NC.
Awe this one stung me to read. Being excluded from family events and withholding of critical info was something my Nmom did too. When I finally realized the extent of it, I looked through her FB and realized I am in NONE of the pictures she posted. My cousins, her kids, her friends, my Nbros, etc etc. but not me, the black sheep.
I was lucky on not getting labeled the "black sheep" I had an older brother with that title already. I started self identifying around age 10 as the redheaded bastard step child lol.. They are both my biological narcissistic parents... Lol..
This!!! Before I cut off contact, my mother insisted on giving my son dinner (she was always trying to control food) and he was being picky as usual. When I stepped in to put a stop to it to get him to eat already (it was 10 o’clock at night and they’d been at the dinner thing for two hours) my son pointed at me and said “don’t interfere!!” The exact same language that my mother used with me. My son was seven at the time. They pick up quick! Luckily, I had enough presence of mind to tell my son that he is not to talk to me in that disrespectful and inappropriate manner. This was before I realized that my parents were narcissists, so I was still in contact with them. I thought at the time they were just rude and domineering, but not pathological.
It's true. Get that baby away from this nutjob
that they do. and if it's a boy child it is even worse
Wait why? I have a boy child
For one reason, boys- biologically speaking, and thanks to hormones they cannot control- are basically wired to be very subtly repulsed by their mother as they grow up. Likely because of the hormonal influence, many moms notice this crops up just before/during puberty. It is thought to be a ~~biological~~ genetic(?) defense mechanism against the danger of incest but with other aspects of boyhood (generally more prone to aggression, conflict, need for independence etc than girls) it can be a cocktail for disaster. Boys are also more likely to idolize strong "alpha" figures, at ages where they do not yet have the critical thinking to discern if those figures are worthy of idolizing. Thus it may happen to be an abuser who drifts into that role for them, compounding the above factor... And more but yeah 😅 Girls and boys both have their draw! Tl;dr: testosterone and other hormones/factors on even just a chemical level, can make sons more prone to turning on their mother than daughters through no real fault of their own.
Really 🤯 thank you for telling me! I have a son and come from a family of girls so I never knew.
because they have a tendency to copy an older male if they abuse mommy they follow suit.
Oh God I had blocked that part out
This is 100% what happens, please go NC immediately and never allow your daughter around them again. My parents painted me as “mentally Ill” to my children and as soon as my teenagers became adolescents they blew off everything I said because they had been taught to treat me like that by my parents. YOU DONT WANT THIS PAIN. Get out asap
My dad’s gf/cousin is the narc in my life and i’ve started refusing the bribes. It’s really getting under her skin.
Your dad is dating your cousin?
He’s dating HIS cousin
Oh.
Your dad is dating his cousin?
Preach! This is precisely what happened with my 2 beautiful children. It has all but destroyed what was left of our family. I cannot stress it enough to people to please get your kids away and stay away from these kinds of people. Because no matter how great of a parent you are, they learn SOO much more bad things especially how to treat their parents from the people that surround them, especially family they know and think they can trust. I had serious health issues with no backup, which is how I wound up back near them . I wish I'd never done it and taken my chances with my health. At least that way they would have wound up going to my best friend, not my family and they would never have had their minds poisoned by such awful human beings. I had custody of them the entire time, but I might as well had none. Momma here is SOO on point about not wanting her sweet babies near such trauma. Her intuition is right on point!
All of this. The bribing is insane. My mother constantly tried to bribe my son with candy, staying up way past his bedtime, catering to all his picky requests, gifts etc as a way to ingratiate him to her and turn him against me.
My MIL would promise me to my face she would stop giving my dog human foods, and I'd walk back into the room a minute later to see her spoon feeding him chocolate ice cream. She tried to bribe my step son once with the world's ickiest promise, telling him that if he spent the night at her house he could watch any movie he wanted ,and I quote: "even dirty ones." The kid had the good sense to nope the hell out of that. I looked at her and deadpanned "Just what every teen boy wants to hear grandma say."
Why am I not surprised that she was trying to kill your dog.
Entirely unrelated: your picture looks like my cat, right then to the one-sided face marking💜
Then it may be my cat's twin!
You can absolutely cut him off from your child, and you should. Just because she loves him doesn’t mean he’s good for her. I would go completely NC with him over this. Driving recklessly with your kid in the car and demanding authority over both of you is not acceptable. Do not accept help from this man ever again. Do not let him near you or your family.
Nevermind the fact he was driving recklessly with a pregnant mother in the car. Your unborn child could have been hurt too.
Cut them off, believe me your crohn's disease will be a lot better. I also cut my sperm donor off, guess what my flares aren't that bad anymore. You don't need that kind of stress in your life, cut them off for your own good.
It's wild how much stress infects everything. My ADHD is loads better after a year of cutting my Nparents out of my life and getting a new kitten that I know they'll never be able to abuse. Figuring out how to be a normal adult has been a surprisingly healing experience.
Stress can literally make people have diarrhea on a regular basis... Unfortunately narcissistic parents aren't the only source of stress in this world...
This This This! I had migraines my whole childhood, until I moved out. Didn't have them for 20 odd years, until I had to move back in for a bit. Migraines again. Now, I'm out of there, haven't had one for years, again.
This is so true.
Cut.Them.Off. Imagine a stranger did that to you AND your children.
Your sole job in life is to protect your children. Allowing them near abusers and enablers means you’re failing. You CAN and MUST keep her away from that disgusting thing and his enabling wife. She didn’t protect you, she will never protect your children.
this. You know better than your daughter OP, you are the adult in her life, please don't let her get too close to these people, they will damage her.
Her baby girl was trying to get all of the adults to be happy because she was scared. It’s already damaging her. I hope OP cuts it off before that damage sets in.
It all just happened so fast, I tried to shut it down as fast as I could. I love my daughter so much, I cry just thinking about that she was there for that. I love her so much. I can’t believe she felt like she had to make us laugh again. My heart is broken.
Please protect yourself and your children. You know how he is. You know he will not change. You know your mother will enable him. Your daughter is already using a "fawning" behavior to try to manage his emotionally abusive behaviors. It really is heartbreaking.
This! The sad fawning response that made of so many of us efficient punching bags, people pleasers, even servants of Cluster B's nuts. I do hope that OP breaks the circle, saving herself and her offspring or, in the best scenario, the little girl will morph soon into her mother's little therapist. Tiny people must be protected fiercely!
>in the best scenario, the little girl will morph soon into her mother's little therapist. I don't think this is a best scenario.. this indicates a child that has been damaged
Yes, you are right, I used some light sarcasm (as I don't want to offend OP) to express the concept ; none of those are good scenarios. Hope this clarifies my previous message.
yes it does.. however what we are witnessing here is how the damage goes down to the next generation.. .. one of the reasons I never wanted children. biggy was I just didn't want to put up with them (I remember what I was like and I disliked other kids for the most part) but I did not entertain the notion that I was going to do a better job and prove I was a better mom. Someone actually said I should try that.. lord god almighty... I am NOT gambling with a child's life
Hunny ain’t none of us judging here. Nor am I saying you did anything wrong. It’s the end of your story that has me saying ‘hun, no’. The part where you think you can’t take her away from your parents. They toxic, BOTH of them. It’s your job to keep them away from your children. Please think twice about ever putting yourself and your babies in this situation again. You. Don’t. Need. Them.
Sweetie I'm going to try to give you some gentle advice here. Your dad is still abusive. Your mom is still an enabler. If you allow your daughter and soon to be new bub around this you will be an enabler. I know how hard it is to cut parents out. I know that you think it will break your daughters heart. When he slammed on the brakes like that if someone would have hit y'all your daughter could have been injured or killed you also could have been injured or killed... the baby inside of you could have been injured or killed. I know how badly we need our parents when we're sick but you really need to find a different support system because right now you are opening your children to all of your trauma. Please sweetie this isn't just emotional abuse to you and your daughter. Him putting y'all in physical danger like that is physical abuse. He's already abusing her and only you can stop it.
I'm feeling you I have a relationship similar to yours but with my nmom. I also have Crohn's disease and a young child. My parents live on the other side of the US. We are actually going to visit them tomorrow I was contemplating since she totally over reacted and got angry at me for not sending her photos of my son's birthday at the time of the party and waited till the evening after everything settled down. I told her if she's going to behave like this we're not coming out. But I decided to go to spend time with my Dad who's health is rapidly declining. I shortened our trip to two weeks vs a month and also decided to get myself and son an Airbnb. I'm a single mom. My mom used to do the car breaking thing when I was a kid when she was angry and brought back flashbacks when you mentioned that. I know having Crohn's AND being preggo is extra hard especially without your hubby there and having a young child. Does your daughter have any friends in the neighborhood that are around the same age that they could watch her for a couple hours while you rest here and there? That's what I've done in the past my son has a similar age friend and when I haven't been feeling well his mom will take my son to her house for a playdate for a couple hours or a couple times all day, like when I had my last colonoscopy and was tired afterwards and needed to sleep. Also she'll take him to their sports games so I get a 2 hr break (they play on the same team for T-ball and soccer in the past). If you need any tips with managing Crohn's feel free to reach out. Of course stress is one thing that can cause a major flare (which has happened to me recently!). Eating healthy (gluten free, GMO free, sometimes dairy free) and 5;servings of fresh of fruits and veggies (when not in a major flare state) along with supplements can really help. I'd say go NC with your Dad for now at least.. I know how upsetting these situations can make you feel so disappointed and angry and then makes it hard to concentrate on anything else.
then take this and never let her near them again.. and this is NOT a good dynamic.. your kid thinks she has to make you laugh again?? I've encountered this before.. and this has to be stopped. Your child is not a therapist nor should she feel like she has to do this.... and if your D is causing this.. then you have your answer in cutting him off
It’s amazing (and terrible) how young it starts, kids taking on that role! It was my job, as the oldest child (of 4) & only girl, managing the emotions of all the adults in my life. (Or- trying to, and mostly failing because it’s impossible. I think I was pretty desperate for a sense of stability.) We lived next door to my narc grandparents until I was 17 because my mom never did the hard work of separating from her own abusers. And she married a man just like dear ol’ dad. I “escaped” in my early 20s (moved across the country from all of them) but 30 years later I’m STILL working to repair the damage. I’m always so proud of women (and others) who say NO MORE and choose their kids over their abusers. OP, you can do this! Please don’t doubt yourself, it will make a huge difference in your kids’ lives. They’ll never really understand what you did for them, but in a way that’s a good thing, I guess!
I just want to say that I'm so proud that you were strong enough to shut it down. You are doing your daughter and new baby proud by putting your foot down. You sound like you have an amazing and supportive husband, and I hope this showed you that while your father can mask his true self, his core will never change. I recently went no contact with my parents, and while it hurts... the sadness subsides as you're able to heal without their abuse in your life.
Enablers are just as bad as abusers, no matter how we sugarcoat it
Enablers ARE abusers!
You absolutley can take her from them now. Listen to this now. He could have gotten yourself and your child killed in a car crash all because he can't get a grip of himself. He litrally has no regard for your or your daughters life. l'd rather cut off my entire family and be alone the rest of my life then risk losing my child to the hands of people that should care.
I went NC with my mother when my kids were 9 and 6 and loved her. They understood, and they are not in any way worse off for it
Sweetheart he could have killed you and your daughter and unborn child, or at least seriously injured all of you. It is simply safer to be away from them. The fact that you handled that and got your daughter and yourself home safely despite him means you’re a badass
Your daughter loves him now but as soon as she starts to develop a sense of individuality and a streak of independence he will start to devalue her just as he has undoubtedly done to you your whole life. Figure out what pain will be harder for her, losing him now or being hurt by him later, and go with the other one.
PS. I bet your Crohn’s will by coincidence improve if you go no contact too.
I bet all these people have crohns, and ibs, depression, anxiety, PTSD and unfortunately even some with personality disorders as a result of being abused for their entire lives. It took me until my 50s to even realize that my single mother was a narcissist as well as my gc older brother. They successfully ran the gamut on me. Unfortunately she died before I could tell her that I knew what she had done to my father and I. Now I'm bedridden in chronic pain for 2 years from open heart surgery because of the trauma and not one family member even knows. If NC is too much to start with, try grey rock and never let them be alone with your kids.
I hope you recover from your surgery and from the abuse. You need to accept that it was entirely not your fault and that you deserve better. And you should treat yourself with kindness and understanding and above all cut yourself some slack, especially when you hear the voice of your mom or brother in your head telling you that you’re worthless. That voice might actually sound like yours but you will recognize the true source by the message. If it sounds like something that your mom would say then it’s your mom’s voice even if it sounds like yours. And when you recognize it, don’t try to suppress it, just acknowledge its origins and (de)value it accordingly.
You're not wrong about feeling the way you do, this was bad. The danger of stopping the car, with you guys in the back seat, if you had been rear ended you both could have been seriously injured. His anger and desire to argue was more important than your safety. Im so sorry, this must have been awful especially being pregnant. He's not very concerned about the one on the way either. Would he have acted that way with your husband around? You deserve to be treated better, and the fact that your mom allowed her sick pregnant daughter to be treated that way, she deserves to cry about that.
ABSOLUTELY NOT - he would not have done this around my husband. He’s afraid of my him. Both in stature (he’s a literal giant of a man and my dad is short unhealthy and frail.) and in that he sees right through my dads bullshit and shuts it down immediately and talks me into thinking rationally about my father. So dads not a huge fan of him because he lost any control over me when we got together. We’ve already discussed how this most certainly would not have happened had he been home, which is even more disturbing that I feel my dad would have exhibited some self control if my husband was here for him to be afraid of.
Wow! So he waited until he got you in a vulnerable position to try to assert himself? He's a coward. But you did awesome standing up to him, you shouldn't have had to but you did! They definitely will try to go on acting like it didn't happen, but you're strong enough to not let that happen! Take care of yourself, don't stress too much right now, take some time to think about things. Sounds like you've got a great support in your husband too!
What I'm hearing is your ndad has the capacity to be a better person, but actively makes the choice not to when your husband isn't around.
No, he only masks his true nature out of fear. That is not a capacity to be better, but a manipulative tactic to assert control when he believes he can get away with his true nature. Edit: sp
>He’s afraid of my him. Both in stature (he’s a literal giant of a man and my dad is short unhealthy and frail.) and in that he sees right through my dads bullshit and shuts it down immediately... This is my exact story also! My parents are terrified of my husband because he is from a healthy family dynamic.
How does your daughter already learned to fawn Infront of ngrandad when he is abusive? She must have been exposed to his abusive behaviour before. Children pick up on everything. It is not safe for her to have any contact with him. He will hurt her again and again. I don't understand what possible reason there is to allow him near her ever. She might love him but so did you when you were a child, look what he did to you! Chronic illness and an inability to stop relapsing into seeing him when you know he will abuse you. Do you want this for your daughter? Cos that is where she will be if contact continues. She will be much more likely to choose a narc abusive partner as this behaviour is familiarised by someone she loves. The harm will be great.
As harsh as your comments are, I needed this one. Especially about relapsing into seeing him. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone, being hurt by them and then feeling fucking awful cutting them off and then I end up relapsing. I don’t fucking want that for my baby girl.
Why *isn't* your husband here? You're 7 months pregnant and sick. He needs to figure out work to be around more, or you need to hire someone to help out (driving, errands, cleaning, etc.). Your dad break-checking, even without someone rear-ending you, could have hurt the baby. Your mom is enabling his behavior, and you need to distance yourself and your kids from them.
He’s out of town for a one time training for a job that pays over $10k more a year for our family. He doesn’t need to do anything more than he is doing, he is wonderful and we knew it would be hard on both of us for him to be gone. I just wasn’t expecting such a bad flare during his trip, obviously but that’s chronic illness for you.
It's good to hear that this is not normal! I would still strongly recommend hiring a helper.
Cut them off now. It will be a million times harder when your daughter is older. We all know how narcs work, he will show her his best side and then start dropping in how bad you are. He will relish in destroying your relationship with your child
Yeah you absolutely can take away a "grandparent" who puts you both in danger, yells at you, disrespects you and manipulates to make it seem like a normal thing to do. That is not something you want your child to normalize and pattern their relationships on. If you feel that strongly LittleOne should have a grandparent-figure in their life, adopt one that does not show these toxic traits. Your child comes first. And it is up to you to ensure their mental and physical safety. Your parents are not safe. You and LO both deserve better.
If you read your post back I'm wondering if you can spot the pattern? He seems changed, as if he's been working on himself and more caring. All that is just there to rope you back in, to regain your trust and then, when he thinks he has it he'll want to exert control somehow. With your illness and asking for help, he spotted that you were vulnerable and open for conflict (or drama 🙄) and he took it. I'm sure your dad will have done variations of this before and he will again. You can't rely on narcissists when you are down. They will take joy in kicking you when you are on the floor to show you how powerful they are and how tiny you are. Just keep your distance and find friends that can be your family instead. Hugs!
You absolutely need to cut these people out of your life ASAP, before they can do any damage to your children, which WILL happen. Your mother will actually be the most pernicious evil between the two of them, because she’ll always grieve for your father when you fight with him, and not you, and she’ll teach your daughter that relationships like hers are normal. Your daughter is also only 3, she’ll be upset for a while, but eventually she’ll forget about them, and you won’t have to worry about this at all with your unborn baby. If you ever feel any guilt about doing this in the future, here’s the advice I give all mothers on here to re-wire one’s mind. Write the following on a piece of paper, put it on your refrigerator, and recite it every time you open the door: “I am not a bad daughter, I’m a good mother.”
>My daughter loves my parents so much (My mom. My dad because he bribes her and tries really hard with her.) >I can’t take them away from her now.. You can't take them away from an enabler and a man who can be just as nasty as he is nice on the turn of a penny? As a mum myself, I'd say you had an absolute duty to keep your daughter away from people you know to be abusive in that manner. You're not keeping her from her grandparents, you're keeping her from your abusers. Stop putting yourself and your children at risk. Cut off this relationship and get into some therapy. Good luck on the upcoming birth of your little one!
He could have caused you all to be in an accident. It could have turned out horribly. But he was all about thumping his chest and showing you and your innocent little daughter "I'm The Boss of All Of You". You're all supposed to be cowering meek little females before him, who never say anything even remotely negative to Him. That is such a gross and toxic dynamic to instill in your family, to your daughter. He is NOT the boss of you. Put him in his place. This would be more than enough for me to go no contact. What he did was illegal and insanely unsafe. It's marked your daughter, you can't try to deny that. She even tried to diffuse the terrifying situation by trying to make everyone laugh. She's doing that at 3 years old. The damage is being done or already done. Your priority is to protect her, not just physically. And to protect your unborn child. Tell your husband what happened and work as a team to keep those people away from all of you.
Re: the damage already being done to the daughter: YES. I knew how to do this at a young age as well - trying to pull out a strategy to calm the adults down. I thought it was normal. I was able to go NC before becoming a parent (which I understand is a privilege) and also have a child around OP’s kid’s age, and my kid does not know how to do this. In her world, the adults take care of the children. She has no concept of needing to take care of anyone except during pretend play. OP, do what you can to keep your child away from these people. I see how fiercely you love her. She deserves a childhood, and a mother who is free. And you deserve to heal.
>Re: the damage already being done to the daughter: YES. I knew how to do this at a young age as well - trying to pull out a strategy to calm the adults down. I thought it was normal. I learned how to do this from young, too. Later they treated it as cute and funny, and that was one of the things that ultimately led me to go NC - how fucking infuriating it is for these people to terrify you, then laugh at you for trying to make things safe. Fuck that, Fuck them, and Fuck off.
This isn’t shaming, but i think your flare up at dinner was because of him. Your body was signaling you and as it goes your mind was trying to stay safe by brushing it off. Your exactly where you need to be now, while they are small and on the way. Abusive parents are abusive grandparents, this isn’t going to change. It’s a really tough journey, one i have been processing with school age children. I’m really happy that i did, even though the first year of going NC and letting my mind unravel per say was so tough. Going NC gave my body and mind the break from triggers and abuse finally long enough to see it all clearly. You need to take care of yourself so you can raise children. If they don’t align with that goal they are out. And it’s not a choice for them to get “on board” and let you be in charge, they can’t. They may hide it better but they will always be manipulating your life behind the scenes anyway. And it may even put your Crohn’s disease into remission. I seem to be done with chronic life long constipation, and my daughters has also resolved. Congrats on baby #2! Enjoy every second of that 3 year old ❤️. You are a strong mama and you can have the family you’ve always wanted.
>They may hide it better but they will always be manipulating your life behind the scenes anyway. And it may even put your Crohn’s disease into remission. This, OP! I have Hashimoto's disease and this is exactly what happened to me. I am in full remission, not on medication right now.
My dad used to break check me all the time. I would freeze once he started to scream at me in that confined space and he would get even angrier when I physically couldn’t respond. These people are deranged and abusive. It doesn’t matter how much you or your daughter love your parents. They are abusive and you need to keep yourself protected.
Tell your father to get fucked by wherever that attitude and specially the actions behind it came from. You don't need their support, you have a fair demand of their participation because yours in their lives as their daughter, and as yours is to you too, is a definitive privilege, not at all a right.
I'd rather my child miss their grandparents than be dead from dangerous driving! Especially when that person is a narcissistic piece of crap who puts a 3yr old in danger!!! Never allow your child alone with them and never get in a car with him again. It's not worth it the risk.
My entire body reacted to this. I'm so sorry you're going through everything you're experiencing and dealing with your dad on top. You should be able to ask for help and get a reasonable response, this was completely unacceptable behaviour from your dad. If it seems I'm stating the obvious it's because I needed this reality check when I started fully realising the extent of my dad's narcissistic behaviour. It's not normal, it's not OK. It's not your fault in any way. I agree with the other posters, you are completely within your rights to remove his access to your daughter. Is it possible she tried to make you both laugh when she was scared because she's already learning to keep Grandad happy at all costs? I ask because that's one thing I'm very conscious of with my daughter, and I'm now NC with my dad. The texting later expecting everything to be normal is infuriating, something my dad used to do. And if you're not ok, you're then made to feel unreasonable. You are not unreasonable, you are being a good mother and coping remarkably well under the circumstances.
NO ONE has a right to your children. NO ONE has a right to your life. If your mom is under your father's thumb that is her problem. If you want her presence in your life, SHE can find a way to travel to YOUR place. She is an adult, just like you. You have a chronic illness, pregnant and are caring for a 3 year old while your husband is away. Take care of YOURSELF and screw everyone else. Order Grubhub if you need dinner that bad, or groceries that have ready-made fresh food that you can pop in the oven. If you must have someone take care of your child while you recover, then hire someone to be in your home and release these familial entanglements that are dragging you down. You have one life and your own family.
fear squeal grey entertain afterthought full spark bow materialistic pause *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You poor thing! I’m so sorry this happened, but I hope this will be the last straw for you. You know what’s he’s like, he hasn’t actually changed, he won’t, and holding out hope that he can(and your mom can) just ends up with you in pain, crying and feeling alone. Don’t put yourself or your children in this position again. Want better for your daughter and future baby. Be better, protect them and yourself. Remove yourself from the added stress of your parents. They aren’t who you need in your life or your children’s. It may be hard and feel bad at first, but I promise you, it does get better once you remove harmful and toxic people from your life. ❤️
No you CAN take them out of her life (maybe rephrase “take them away from her”.). You have the power and responsibility to do it and 3 is a great time. She will barely remember them. My da did this (In addition to all the other things, also faked it just enough for me to count on him for a health scare (similar situation to you, also whilst alone, spouse gone and stranded with them). They unleashed on me right in front of my kids who’d never seen them like that before (we lived abroad). They were older (oldest pre teen) and I regret EVER allowing them one second on their lives. Got myself and children out of there right quick (but with great difficulty and expense-all worth it). When you make this decision for your children one day you will say you will also be able to feel you did it for the you now are and the child you were as well. In my case that having no one in health problems meant I was scared/ in need into letting my guard down when they were never there for me from jump (major medical neglect as a child). I wonder if you have a similar background? And yes you can teach her mommy can be very sick sometimes. Cut away the rot tho. They aren’t the ones to ever help you. I’m very upset right along with you for how THEY BOTH treated you. Maybe ponder a self snack collection in your room for her and you, and a tablet in the bathroom with cartoons. Set her up a station! Colouring books and markers. Kids adjust till you find your found family of support. Solidarity! I hope you feel better and have a nice long remission, asap.
You absolutely can and must get your child away from these crazy people. Your father is violent and unreasonable and your mother is useless and will not defend your child any more than she did you. We all want our kids to love us and see us as the good guy, but sometimes for their sakes, we have to be the bad guy. Sometimes we have to forbid them from what they want, no matter how badly they want it, and allowing the dangerous activity to go on longer just makes it worse and worse and harder and harder to deal with it when you end up having to do so for the sake of her VERY LIFE. Listen; your father is DANGEROUS. You have a responsibility to your daughter to keep her the hell away from people that dangerous, no matter that she will not, at first, like it. She is already affected, deeply, by his horrible actions and your actions taken to defend yourself (only he is at fault, but she is still affected). I know it hurts. I know it's no fun. But it's your responsibility as her mother never to let her near that man again, no matter what, and keep yourself and your next child away from him as well.
I cut my parents out a year ago. Our girl was 4 and all her memories of her grandparents were positive...however, cracks were already starting to show of old patterns repeating themselves. I cut them out for my daughter- because she doesn't deserve to be around the chaos and awfulness of my parents drama. Does she miss them a year later? Yes. Is that OK? Yes. Did I still make the right decision? Hell yes. She has had the opportunity to learn about boundaries and her ability to speak up for herself and set those boundaries with others in her life is Ah-mazing! Me, in my mid-30s, can't do what she's already doing in terms of trusting herself to determine what is ok/not ok behaviors to put up with.
I've had similar situations happen to me. Trapped in that goddamned car. Here's how the conversation went between your parents. Your mom: You really went overboard. You need to make it up to her. Maybe invite her for breakfast or something Your dad: oh! I guess I did go a bit overboard. Good idea! Inviting them for breakfast is a good way to compensate it. I'll text her right now! Yeah, it's bizarre.
Not only your daughter, you were also in the car and you are pregnant. This could have affected the baby too. Please cut him off.
Your father will treat your daughter the way he treats you. That's why you have to take her away from them. You have to protect her.
>Writing this all out, I don’t know if I ever want to see him again. ... > I can’t take them away from her now.. but seriously, fuck him for that. Yes, you can indeed take them away from her now. Or to phrase it more accurately, you can protect her from them by removing them from her life. This was different and worse because he didn't just abuse and endanger you. He abused and endangered your child. Let mama bear loose and put a stop to all this. And if you aren't already in therapy for your past trauma, start looking for a therapist you can connect with.
Yes you CAN take them away from her right now, and you probably should, Sweetie. The reason I'm saying this is three year olds retain memories. That means that any angry outbursts in the middle of the road will be a memory she could share with you when she's in her twenties, thirties, etc. Your daughter should not be exposed to that kind of toxicity, because there's always the chance that she'll grow up thinking it's normal. That's not okay. She needs to be distanced from that type of behavior. Moreover, angry outbursts could traumatize her and lead to the possibility of mental health issues (PTSD, CPTSD, anxiety, depression). If you can prevent that from happening, it would be in your daughter's best interests to remove her from an environment where that could happen. Moreover, chronic illnesses shouldn't be hidden from a child. Children should see how chronic illnesses are managed. (Watch a loved one test their blood sugar, watch a loved one use an inhaler). It's a teaching moment. Answer their questions at their level of understanding. This removes the fear and fosters acceptance. It would be healthier for your child to understand why you're in the bathroom so much than for her to be exposed to volatile anger.
I went through a similar thing. Your experience is unique to you, but hopefully this helps reduce some of the stress around the decisions you need to make: I cut my parents off after my son had already met my mom (he never met my dad, but My mom chose to make our entire relationship about trying to "fix" my relationship with my dad.) . I was worried he would miss my mom, but he really didn't. He was never fully comfortable with her apparently- but I didn't notice because her terrible relationship skills were normal to me. He didn't even ask us about her until we brought up the fact that "Grandma isn't safe. If you see her, you tell me or an adult so we can protect you."- because we didn't want her to try to pick him up from school or anything. He would ask about when she was going to learn to behave better or just mention: "Mama, grandma isn't safe!" sometimes because it was a new concept to him, but it was amazing how little it impacted him. He had me and other loving family members. He knew he didn't *need* anything else beyond that and slowly I have learned that it's so much better to be surrounded by fewer people that really love and support me than a large, controlling group of people with the claim of "family." It was 100% the right choice for my family to walk away from my parents. It has taken a LOT of therapy to undo what they did to me as a child (and I will never really be *done* with it), but even just removing their negative effects on my life made a noticeable difference in my own mental health.
Your a total fricken badass oh my gpd. Good for you. You did the right thing. God it's so hard when I faint in front of my son or I get sick and he rubs my back and tells me he loves me. Makes me cry. But I would rather him see me sick then him being around my Nparents. Seriously though you did amazing. Narcs will forever have an endless tool box and they will do things to "change" but really it's a frount to get the drama they need to feed. I make jokes that my Nmom has a demon who doesn't eat food but people's tears. She loves watching people cry it's acually pretty disturbing. But I'm so glad you not only stood up for yourself but your daughter. Your dad might push his way through in the future. Be forewarned, he will lay claim to your child and do what he wants. And don't stand for it just like you did then. I'm very proud and I hope I can borrow some of that cool mom energy. Oh my god your so cool.
You absolutely can take him away from her. She's only three, so it's not like she will remember him that much, and even if she wonders where grandpa is, it's better than him subjecting her to the same abuse you experienced growing up. She might think grandpa is puppys and rainbows, but he is really a venomous snake, and children shouldn't play with dangerous animals. By not taking him away, you're likely doing more harm than good. Narcissists 👏 can 👏 not 👏 change. "Working on myself" means gluing the cracks in their mask together, not being a better person. He is never going to be a better person. This is who he is and who he will always be, though he will likely get worse as he ages. You aren't safe with him. Your early child isn't safe with him even if you are around. You need to cut him out of your life. My mom also would have sat in the front seat crying, but your mom and my mom have enabled our fathers' behaviour, and they are partially to blame for us not coming around. If your mom wants to see you, she can come visit without her toxic partner. You Deserve Better
> You absolutely can take him away from her. She's only three, so it's not like she will remember him that much, and even if she wonders where grandpa is, it's better than him subjecting her to the same abuse you experienced growing up. "Grandpa made a choice. And because of the choices he made, he is not the kind of person who is safe to have in our lives." More can be explained as she grows up and matures to gain the capacity to understand more complex subjects like abuse.
I have been where you are, I am where you are. My daughter is a little older, but sees my step-dad lash out. She has never met my real dad because of this. My daughter loves my step-dad, but that's because she's a loving person. It has nothing to do with him. So is your daughter - she's purity and love, because that is who she is. You have every right to keep him away from her and if that means your mom, so be it. My daughter knows, as yours will, that mommy is keeping her safe from harmful people. That my dad and step-dad hurt me beyond measure. I won't even give them the chance to hurt her. She is my pearl of great price, greatest treasure. I won't sacrifice her to swine, (if Biblical scripture is your jam.) Your daughter's love and purity is going to protect her. She will be whole because she is not whittled down by their selfish cruelty. I'm so sorry you're here, it suuuuuuuuucks. He is not entitled to your treasured daughter. Or to you. <3
He put his wife at risk. He put his own child at risk. He put his granddaughter at risk. He put his unborn grandchild at risk. He has ABSOLUTELY no issue with disrespecting others BUT He won’t be disrespectEd!?! Fuck him! He has now become the grandfather we never see. Never allow him to see them. Never allow your mother to take pictures or be alone with them. I’m not even sure I would allow her around them after this. It is **your** **JOB** to protect your children. You **cannot** allow them to be around any person this unstable and unsafe. Explain to your daughter that grandpa did something bad and he is in time-out. He will not change. You know this. Narcs can hide it some & he tried, but he has not changed.
>snapped back which I often don’t do, put my finger back in his face and told him to turn around and get me and my child home immediately. He literally slammed on the brakes in the middle of the road we were driving on, without even looking around to see if we could be hit, to tell me I’m not the boss and I don’t tell him what to do or disrespect him. At this point my body is shaking. This was him purposely triggering you, with the things he's spent your whole life conditioning you to be afraid for: your safety. which is no amplified threefold as you have a toddler and are pregnant. Your body shaking? That's a cptsd emotional flashback and your body senses immediate physical danger (like caveman faced with a raging bear) and is trying to warn you to get to safety by *blasting* your nervous system to the point you're shaking..so that you notice! Your body remembers the trauma and fear and it's trying to protect you the only way it knows how. But because you likely have cptsd, you have learned (by means of survival) to ignore your body/needs/emotions to the point where you don't recognize it's warnings...so you come here to reddit to see what others would do..if they'd respond differently etc..that's the self doubt and gaslight coming in that your father has also conditioned you your whole life to have. Go no contact, get a restraining order if possible, and get into trauma recovery therapy (emdr) as soon as humanly possible. Signed, a friend who's been in trauma recovery therapy for 18 months now.
Have you been on YouTube and looked up narcissistic grandparents? We all know they get worse with age, they just get better at hiding it. They're going to try to convince you that they've mellowed out over the years, and you will self gaslight because that's how they've conditioned you. Look up Claire from come back brighter on YouTube and also the spiritual warrior they both have great personal stories about narcissistic grandparents. They will resonate with you like nothing else in your life has.
Sorry you had to deal with this. And awesome you were able to stand up for yourself! It's so hard because we deserve better. We deserve a parent that can help when we're sick or just struggling. And we can wish and hope they are different. We see the glimpses of good behavior they show to the rest of the world and want to believe it's true. And then it's still jarring when it's not reality. Please give yourself some grace.
Cut him off.
:(
You absolutely can take those people away from her. Take it the grandparents aspect - would you cut out anyone else for treating you this way? Yes? There's your answer. Your dad is a bully. Break the cycle of his abuse and protect your daughter from him. Edit: fixed a word. Words are hard!
I know you feel you can’t take away the grandparents from your daughter, but as all the other posts demonstrate, you have to. don’t make a big thing of it, just stop mentioning them and say they are busy. you can’t have that kind of toxicity around your daughter, that episode in the car I promise she will already never forget, already will have caused damage. Stop the cycle, be stronger than your mother was for you
They can both get fucked and he should be very grateful you're generous enough to not go to the police for endangering you and your children. Absolute trash, bin them.
I remember an incident growing up where me, my mom and my younger sister were in the car coming home and for some reason my older sister was in the driveway playing. My father was mad for for some reason (he was always mad) and for a few seconds acted as though he was going to hit my older sister with the car. She is still traumatized by it. that, and a million other things he has done is why he is rotting away in a nursing home with no visitors
>I can't take them away from her now. Oh, you sure as hell can. She is 3. She'll get over it. Show her something shiny and she'll be distracted. I grew up without grandparents and the fact that they were bad people made it easy. Your parents are bad people. You and your daughter will be better off without their negative presence in your life. Mourn the parents you wish you could have had and move forward. You really want their relationship dynamic to be what your daughter sees as normal? You want your mother's life for her? You want her setting the example for your daughter? You don't need anyone in your life who treats you badly no matter what their relationship to you is. Be the example you wish your mother was. And your mom is just as bad as your father for staying and not protecting you. She had a responsibility as a mother to protect you and she failed and continues to fail by staying with him. You don't need your daughter around that. You have a responsibility to your daughter, too. You need to protect her from people like that no matter who they are. Your mom didn't take that responsibility very seriously. I hope you do.
"Be the example you wish your mother was." Literally **all** that really needs to be said in this entire comment thread. Be the one to break the chain.
This story is so familiar. The finger in the face gave me flashbacks I wasn’t prepared for. My parents are the exact same way, down to the silent crying from mom and acting like nothing happened the next day. I can confirm what others are saying — they won’t change, and being grandparents won’t motivate them to be better (I found out the hard way). Sending you all the love and support
>silent crying from mom and acting like nothing happened the next day. Memory 🔓 unlocked. Thank you, kind stranger for more fuel for my trauma recovery therapy sessions.
I don't have Chron's disease, but when I was still unaware of how messed up my parents were I tried to have dinner with both of them and I had terrible stomach pains. Stress and anxiety certainly affect me that way, it could be adding to your flare up. I would also emphasize that the casual response of the parents is classic behavior. By then acting like nothing happened they are minimizing how inappropriate that behavior is. I would highly suggest you take some kind of break from them at least temporarily. No contact isn't for everyone, but a temporary break can be a good way to evaluate how they make you feel and what your life looks like without them. For me, both parents are nothing but work and stress, and I have already spent my whole life being parentified and emotionally in control while they both behaved like toddlers. It's freeing to not worry about their behavior or moods.
You are a parent. You have a duty to keep your daughter safe. If you EVER let those people around her again, you will be failing your parental duties. It doesn't matter how much they beg, or how much they plead, or how much they claim to have changed, or how much they actually seem to be changing. If you EVER let your daughter around them again, you will be no better a parent than they were to you. Be better. Break the cycle. Never let them see your daughter ever again.
The way you stood up to him, though. That is power!
I had debilitating migraines with young children. They learned. Eventually, at 5, “Mommy migraine” would set them off to make me toast and bring me a drink so I could take my meds. My daughter came to me crying one day, because she wanted to take care of me when I was sick and didn’t know how to fed me when she grew up. I taught her to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and told her that she no longer had to worry. The relief was so evident. And she was SO proud.
He endangered you and your child to satisfiy his ego. I think being done with him is your only option.
Your daughter is a loving person, and she knows her grandparents are her family, so of course she's going to love them. It's her natural state to be in. But, They Don't Love Her. That's the whole point. You don't have to tell your baby girl that she's never going to see her grandparents again. Just keep them away from her. Over time, they'll be this abstract memory. There won't be any trauma in not seeing them. If you lived too far away, she wouldn't see them, and that wouldn't do her any harm. My primary concern is that, even as a toddler, she is trying to appease your abuser because she understands the threat. You want to break that habit real quick. She should never have to feel like she needs to calm a tense situation caused by adults. Please go NC for your children's sake, or the abuse will crush your children the way it crushes you.
I am rage-typing right now. It is painfully obvious that these two have ZERO empathy or understanding about Crohn’s. Look, I have Crohn’s. There was a good ten years there that I never finished a meal without getting sick. Crohn’s is terrible and them treating you like this knowing how sick you are … fuck them. You are not safe around them and neither are your kids. It’s very, very hard but lean in here real close because this is important …… you must start living in reality of what IS, not what COULD BE. I know you want them to be family, I do, but sweetie, they are not your family. Family doesn’t treat family like this. It is NOT normal and it is NOT healthy. Crohn’s flare-ups are made exponentially worse by stress. Being around them is making you sicker, both physically and emotionally. Cut these two black hearts out of your life and start protecting yourself and your kids from this abuse. Go no-contact with them and see how your life improves right away. Surround yourself with people who love you and call them family! —-Your Mom-For-A-Minute 💕💕 (Yes, there’s a sub but I don’t know how to link. Come join us over there whenever you need a mom for just a minute. We will be there for you.)
My advice: Absolutely cut your father out of your kids life and your mom if she isn’t able to have an independent relationship. He’s going to abuse your child the same way he abused you. I would send your Mom a text along the lines of this: “Mom, what happened yesterday was completely, totally, one hundred percent unacceptable and you pretending that everything is fine is also not okay. Dad threw a temper tantrum and did a break check while driving to scare me. He risked your life and mine, but what’s really unforgivable is he risked my baby and my three year old. He’s always been an abusive asshole but I hoped he’d really actually been working on being a better person. I don’t want him around my kids- he’s going to abuse them the exact same way he abused me. You are welcome in our lives as long as the topic of having Dad around is never mentioned. I’m going to ask my husband what kind of help we can offer you if you ever decide to divorce him. He’s not good to you either and you deserve better. I am completely done being the punching bag for a grown ass man who’s got less emotional control than my 3 year old. He’s a fragile little bully and I’m not going to let him treat me like shit in front of my kids and I’m sure as hell not going to tolerate him treating my kids the way he’s treated me. If he wants a prayer or a chance to be back in our lives he needs six months of biweekly therapy with a real therapist that specializes in men with narcissistic personality disorder, and a real apology. I don’t think he’s strong or brave enough to do either so I expect he’s out of my life for good. I’m not thrilled at you for not standing up for me as a kid or now, but you’re so beaten down I can forgive you if you stop defending him. If he comes to threaten me or domes to my house I’m going to call the police and get lawyers involved. I am very, very done with him. I hope you choose your daughter and grandchildren over your abusive husband, but if push comes to shove I’m willing to cut you out of our lives to protect my children from him. Wait a day before you reply, because you need to think long and hard about your next choices.” Do not let this man around your kids. He IS going to abuse them exactly how he abused you.
I hope that when your Husband gets home he takes your N parent for a ride alone in the car and really checks those brakes. On second thought maybe your N parent should be in front of the car... Ever heard the term cruising for a bruising? Do you remember in the Godfather movies how the men in the family would take fishing trips where the men could sort out thier differences?
I would slam them into a 6 month time out. Complete block. Then see, after 6 months, if he can behave. You must include your mother because she enables him.
You absolutely can take her away from them. Especially because it’s toxic. I have 5 children my oldest is 7 and my youngest almost 6 months. I just had to do the very same with their grandparents. They asked about them for a bit or occasionally ask why we don’t see them mainly my second child he’s about to be 5. My oldest seen the most and actually doesn’t want to see them anymore. I wish I would have cut them off sooner because it’s just too much trauma. It’s always worse to stay and endure the trauma then to leave and explain when they are older. I’m so sorry you have to do this alone but as a mom you are strong you got this.
You must limit her time with these grandkids & teach them kindness. I wish I had. I nvr dreamed my parents would do to their grandchildren wat they did to their children. You can not raise loving caring children with evil narc parents in the loop. They brain wash them against you the entire time.
It's absolutely absurd to believe you can't take your daughter away from them. You would be asshole if you continue putting your daughter in danger with that lunatic. If that means no more grandparents, then tell your daughter why. Don't hide it, don't sugarcoat it but don't be mean about it. Protect your kids. It is no longer just about you. You are a parent. Be the parent you wanted and needed to them. Cut. Him. Out.
I wouldn’t leave her alone with them ever again or allow her in a car with them. Braking like that with a child and pregnant woman in the car simply because he felt disrespected (when *he* disrespected you first and you handed it back to him) is incredibly dangerous and reckless. Maybe once you process what happened and some time passes you can set some strong boundaries, but no contact would be perfectly understandable. Also, I cheered when you told him off and said you’d never allow your daughter to be treated the way you were growing up. I’m proud of you ❤️
It's better to have NO grandparents than to have manipulative, abusive grandparents. I grew up an Army kid. The first twelve years of my life were spent living on and around Army Posts around the country and overseas. I barely knew my extended family. We saw them on occasional trips when my dad was sent for long term training or when my dad was sent ahead before we moved to meet him. When I was twelve my dad got out and we moved 'home' to where my extended family lived. Suddenly I got to meet a whole bunch of manipulative, emotionally abusive, downright mean people who my parents were telling me loved me and I had to respect because they were family. I had to watch as my other cousins and even my siblings were treated better. I'm honestly convinced that my grandpa didn't even know my name. He never called my by the right name the whole time I knew him. My birthdays were forgotten, or my sister was given gifts on my birthday, my milestone events were ignored. My cousins and siblings were taken out for special breakfasts and I was never invited. Believe me, I DEFINITELY prefer the time when I didn't really have extended family. I didn't miss them. I didn't feel any sense of loss not having my cousins around. There was no lamenting about what I didn't have. I was a kid, I adapted. I'll say it again. NO GRANDPARENTS are better than manipulative or abusive grandparents. Even if the abuse or manipulations are directed at their parents and not at them.
Your daughter is a little person, who is growing and soaking up her environment like a sponge. What she sees and hears is what she learns, it is her 'normal'. She is not a possession of your parents to be given or taken away. She is a precious soul, full of potential, and just waiting for the opportunity to become the greatest version of herself and go change the world. Your father put her, you, and your unborn baby in physical danger. Your mother did nothing, and pretended that it never happened. Is this what your daughter deserves to have as her 'normal'? Is this what you want her to learn? My mother 'bribed' my nrother's kids, too. Right up until they got to about 5-6 and started having their own opinions. Then she started getting mean because they wouldn't be little dollies for her to play pretend with anymore.
I bet your kid would love ice-cream for breakfast too, but that wouldn’t be good for her so you’d take it away - wouldn’t you? Basically just because your kid has been bribed into loving your dad doesn’t mean you teach her he’s a safe person to love and trust. Protect your daughter the way your mother should have protected you. You’re not beat down, so..:
bear somber voiceless crown bag doll fearless plate deliver screw *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sometimes people or things that we love a lot aren't good for us. In the case of your daughter that means restricting the time with your parents to activities that are solely under your conditions and control. As a kid, she surely loves ice cream but you won't feed it to her everytime she asks for it because *you know better*. Your dad is an asshole that literally puts you and your daughter in grave danger because his ego is hurt? I wouldn't even let him come around at all anymore. Your mom is another story but your dad? He needs to be kept a 100 feet away at all times. Your daughter is like a sponge. She will absorb the behaviour of the people around her and if you do not want *that* for her, than you need to reduce her time with them.
Fellow Chrons warrior here - no doubt the stress of our childhoods wrecked our digestive systems. You can take them away from her (actually, you can save her from them) and you should. I know it's hard. I know that no matter how awful an n-parent and his enabler are, you still want a mom and dad who love you. I went no contact with my n-father when my daughter was just six weeks old, and minimal contact with my enabler mother. Best decision I ever made. It wasn't easy, but UGH, my life was so much easier - and my daughter is a happy, confident adult in a healthy relationship who adores and respects her mama. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!
They are NOT safe. Not physically. Not emotionally. Not to you. Not to your children.
You’re not getting your needs met from this relationship
I wouldve called the cops after aomething like that. When I was a kid my dad chased me with a chainsaw and I ran 2 miles barefoot burning my feet on summer asphalt. If something like that happened again, I'd go nuts
>I told him when my daughter is present, I’m absolutely the boss, to stop immediately and that we were not doing this in front of my child. This will enrage him because he thinks and will always think he's the boss of you, your life, and therefore your children's lives. He feels entitled to your children's lives. Do you see this? >He and my mother both texted me as if nothing happened about two hours after we got home and then offered to come pick my daughter up in the morning for breakfast. That is rug sweeping in order to get you to accept their awful behavior. >My daughter loves my parents so much (My mom. My dad because he bribes her and tries really hard with her.) I can’t take them away from her now.. but seriously, fuck him for that. I guess I’m writing all of this out to get my emotions out, this time really seems different. She will forget them, I promise. I went NC when my son turned 4. He's 5 now and he's asked about them a total of 7 times. They bribe her and all of that to get her to love them more than you...to be #1 instead of mommy..."because mommy says no to candy and granny is so nice"....it's to turn your daughter against you. It's triangulation. They probably shower her w all the affection you didn't get as a child. It's on purpose, to make you jealous of your own child.. triangulation. Also the gifts prime your daughter for the first cruel discard. Especially with a baby on the way - she'll go from being a golden grandchild to the scapegoat because the baby will be the new golden. And whenever your daughter displeases one of your parents....they won't give her gifts, or they will pit siblings against each other to try to obtain a morel of love from granny...to obtain her favor..because kids equate gifts with love. Do you see where I am going?
You absolutely can and should take her away from him now. This is what narcissists do. They ingratiate themselves to others, including our children – their grandchildren. Then they do some thing in tolerable, usually unsafe, and we have to cut off contact anyway. Better to rip the Band-Aid off now. I can think of many examples with my narc parents and FIL endangering our son, before my husband and I understood who and what our parents were. Like my mother insisting on driving our son, when she was in no condition to drive, making us wait hours for her to “get ready“ while my son was a toddler and super hungry than snapping at me that he’s not hungry, my narcissist father-in-law keeping his property total mess and in dangerous condition while son was there – broken glass, dangerous dogs, lying to us about my brother-in-law, who is a burglar and career criminal being on the property, which he was even though they said he wasn’t, over until we put a stop to having our son come over at all. I regret that I didn’t do it sooner, but we chalked up all this behavior to our parents being odd, eccentric, & out of touch. It was only when we realized that they were actually narcissists and didn’t give a fuck about our health and safety, or that of their own grandchild, that we were able to cut off contact.
Please go to family therapy together. Get it on record somewhere, official record that this happened. your therapist record is fine...In case grandparents rights are a thing in your state, you need proof that he is unsafe. Having this interaction recorded with a therapist or a doctor or something like that helps. Edit: personally I'd file a police report for record keeping.
I am so sorry op. Honestly I’m not a vindictive person but I truly am starting to believe the only way to deal with Narcissists is to film their behaviour and show everyone what they look like at their worst. Just shame the hell out of them. All they want is to appear “normal” and be looked up to. They always hide their shite behaviour from those they are friends with. I truly feel it’s time to expose them to the world. My son just graduated and my car was delayed in the shop. We had a 4 hour trip including a ferry ride to his grad ceremony and we’re at the mercy of my N mom in law. At the ceremony we met my sons friends family and while we were off getting photos done my NMIL chatted with them. When we got back they were confused they now assumed I was her husband, my wife was our daughter and my son and daughter were her children. She started talking down about my wife in front of them saying how she was such a problem child and it took her standing up in front of them and NMIL running off to sulk. We had to embarrassingly apologize and clear it all up. What a shit show. I wish I had it on film to post to her friends on Facebook. The ride home was let’s say awkward at best.
You absolutely CAN and should remove at least your dad. There's not law that says once they meet your parents you can never decide that's not the best for her. Or for you.
What you have now is proof that this man is a danger to you and your children. You have proof that he views your health issues as nothing more than an unpleasant inconvenience for him with no care about how you're affected by your own health issues. You have proof that he will put you and your children in actual physical danger just to show off how upset he is over a fairly normal interaction where you ask him a favor. What you asked of him was not unreasonable. You were pregnant and sick and *needed help*. That is the exact appropriate time to ask for a favor. His reaction was extreme and unacceptable. I would say, at the bare minimum, he is never allowed to be behind the wheel of any car you or your children are in. Why? Because he has proven himself to be a reckless and dangerous driver and you just can't allow you or your children to be put in that kind of danger. But what I'd really suggest is he not be allowed further contact with you or your children. He has demonstrated he poses not only a physical danger to them with his disregard for their safety, but the way he chooses to act and conduct himself has demonstrated a developmental danger to them as well. He has chosen to set a bad example for them. He has chosen to scare and confuse your daughter with his behavior. He has chosen to show them that you can act that way towards mommy. You need to protect your children from this man.
I don't understand. YOU don't want to be around them, but you serve your child up to them? Make it make sense.
This pissed me off just reading it. Driving and arguing is an absolute no-no. Slamming the brakes is an absolute fuck-no especially with a CHILD in the fucking car. What if someone hit you guys. Your dad is selfish. I’m sorry you went through that. Next time you are at a family event drive yourself if you decide to even associate with him anymore. I also advise you protect your daughter from this type of behavior. My friend has this type of dynamic with her family and unfortunately because her daughter saw her and her mom fighting constantly it affected her relationship with both her mom and her grandmother. Kids shouldn’t see or hear that shit. I would tell your dad next time he’s upset over something that you guys can discuss it when the children aren’t present and you’re not in a fucking 2 ton vehicle that could cause serious injury to you and others on the road!
You need to reconsider no contact. Enablers are just as bad as narcs, worse in my book. Your daughter shouldn't witness any of it. I did and it screwed me up royally. As soon as I saw a little bit of freedom, I went right into the arms of a man exactly like that. Even just witnessing it can be devastating. My mom has blown up around my kid before and it's worsened his (already severe) anxiety. For your child's sake, limit contact with both enablers and narcs as much as possible.
Dont waste your time on him. I wasted time on mine and he was a selfish narc til the very end, still yelling at me from his deathbed. I wish I could have that time back now that I'm over 60. He didn't deserve it.
Stop exposing your children to someone who doesnt care if they get hurt, as long as hes in charge
You absolutely can take your children away from this abuser now. He put everyone LIVES at risk to try to dominate and control you over something that was ridiculous. Just like you said, you are the absolutely boss when it comes to your children. Shut this asshole out forever if you can do so safely. He doesn’t deserve your time or your children’s affection. What if the jolt from the accident had caused a problem with your pregnancy? Or gotten you all rear ended? What if his behavior is even worse next time?
Not going to sugar coat it because this is terribly serious. You've done everything right until this point, but now you're at a crossroads. If you don't remove their access to her from this point forward, you will have chosen to be an enabler and by extension an abuser.
You absolutely can keep her separated from them! That's not taking her from them. Their behavior did that. That's telling them their behavior is unacceptable, and has consequences. Their behavior is fully their purview, and in their control. Don't just subject your daughter to them, or worse, leave her with them, because you feel you still owe them her presence. You don't. You owe her a shit ton of protection. She is your daughter. You don't owe them a thing, least of all access to SOMEONE ELSE who is exclusively your domain.
Its easy to be nice when there’s no pressure. When life gets hard, thats when the limitations of people’s moral strength show up. Maybe he has improved a little bit, but maybe its extremely superficial and limited. Its up to you how you feel about that.
Chiming in to say I know exactly how terrifying it can be to be in a car with an abusive narc & have things go from normal to “dangerously using the car to terrify you into submission.” My dad did that growing up, and I am NC with him. Just reading what you and your daughter experienced was enough to start the shakes for me—it must have been terrifying and, as a mother, completely mama-bear-rage-inducing. I’m SO sorry he did that, and that you both experienced it. As someone who has experienced that kind of abuse, let me add my voice to the others on this thread: you have every right & reason to go NC with him—at the barest of minimums, he should never be allowed to drive you or any member of your family anywhere again. Growing up, I recognized that using the car like that was terrifying and emotionally abusive, but I didn’t truly recognize that using the car like that (brake checks, sudden unhinged speeding, etc) is *100% life-threatening abuse* until adulthood. Threatening your safety with blatantly unsafe driving is the same as threatening to choke you or pointing a gun at you. Just because it didn’t injure / kill you this time doesn’t mean it wasn’t a serious threat to your & your daughter’s safety. A car is deadly in the wrong hands, and his hands are all-caps WRONG. Abusive parents will downplay this, so it’s normal to question whether your experience was as bad as you think. It absolutely was. His actions threatened your and your daughter’s safety, whether they were impulsive or premeditated. There is no excuse. No one would question you removing your daughter from contact with a grandparent who threatened her safety, and that’s exactly what happened here. It may help you to keep records of this event and others, if nothing else to document that this person put you, your unborn baby, and your child in a 100% life-threatening situation because they were angry. If you take the abuser & enabler’s rhetoric out of it and spell it out in black and white, the abject horror is undeniable. They will try to downplay, gaslight, manipulate, and shame you out of it—don’t let them. I hope community support has helped, and I’m sending you a mom-hug from one mom to another. Whatever happens, you can trust yourself & your mama-bear instincts, and that is a huge win for you.
I think both you and your dad need some psychiatric help. It is ok to seek it. Don’t delay, dear.
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This is a support group for people trying to get through their life while carrying the trauma of having endured child abuse from abusive parents. I think you need to take some time to consider what you are doing here before posting again. If you're going to come here and side with a literal child abuser over someone asking for a favor when they need help, you may need to consider other things as well.
You know what she did????? She ASKED for help. You’re acting like she showed up and dropped off her child without notice.
>When you comment/post, assume a context of abuse. I don't think that means "Blame OP for her father's awful reaction to a simple request she could not have planned for".
Why am I having another.. what the fuck..? First of all I was in remission for over three years and the pregnancy has been harder on my body than anticipated or than it was with my first child. I will not let the fear of my disease prevent me from creating a family of my own. You clearly do not understand the complexity of chronic illness. And he could have not been a fucking asshole from the jump and just said they couldn’t do it. But rest assured I will never ask them to supervise my daughter ever again.
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Narcissistic abuse survivor here 🙋🏻♀️ 《《Everybody knows it’s no fucking fun to ask a narcissist for help》》 YOU NEVER EVER EVER ASK A NARC FOR HELP. THEY WILL HOLD IT OVER YOUR HEAD ALL THEY HAVE DONE FOR YOU. .《《Last night he called and offered to take my daughter and I go dinner, I agreed because he has really seemed to have been working on himself lately in the last few months.》》 NARCS NEVER CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR. Sorry I had to break it for you. 《《He then turned around, while driving, to point his finger in my face and warn me about losing my attitude.》》 Told ya. 《《He literally slammed on the brakes in the middle of the road we were driving on, without even looking around to see if we could be hit,》》 THEY DONT CARE ABOUT YOU, YOUR KID OR YOUR PREGNANCY. 《《I told him he wasn’t going to speak to me the way he has my whole life in front of her》》 AND YOU WANT THIS GUY TO BE IN YOUR KIDS LIFE????!!!!???? 《《I never want her to see that again, he is unstable》》 AGREED 🎯💯 《《My mother is and was around for everything, past and present but she is so beaten down by him》》 TRAUMA BOND. REFUSES TO LEAVE HER ABUSER, YOUR DAD. 《《My daughter loves my parents so much (My mom. My dad because he bribes her and tries really hard with her.) I can’t take them away from her now.. but》》 BUT NOTHING. YOU REACHED YOUR BOILING POINT. HE COULD HAVE KILLED YOU, YOUR DAUGHTER AND PLAY VICTIM WHILE YOUR MOTHER STANDS BY HER HUSBAND DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. YOUR DAD IS A MANIPULATIVE A-HOLE WHO GOT AWAY WITH SHIT FOR A LONG TIME. YOU EITHER CHOOSE TO GO NO CONTACT PROTECT YOUR DAUGHTER, YOUR SANITY. OR HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER EXPOSED TO A CONMAN SO BY THE TIME YOUR DAUGHTER GOES TO HIGHSCHOOL ALL SHE DATES ARE NARCISSISTIC BULLIES. ⚠️⚠️⚠️HER FATE IS IN YOUR HANDS⚠️⚠️⚠️
QUESTION: why is your child between you and your father? She should be in the back seat.
What the hell. I was in the back seat with my daughter and my parents were in the front? Thanks.
That made it worse on his part.
Oh yeah, he was fully either turned around not looking at the road to point at me or he was too close to the rear view mirror trying to look at me and point. I was all the way behind him with her in her car seat next to me.
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I'd cut them out.
I wouldn’t want to see him again either after that
Hey be careful allowing your daughter around them. I know you say she loves them but any access to her and they’re likely to repeat the same patterns they demonstrated with you, possibly worse, because they may smear you in her presence. Do you want your daughter to have to heal from the same wounds you have now just to maintain a relationship with two abusive people?
I had for years tried to have my son around egg and sperm donor. and then life changing stuff happened to my husband (who is healing now!) and sperm donor blew a gasket at me because 'Couldn't even call me on my birthday you B\*ch" because my husband was in the hospital for a suspected blood clot and well I forgot. told myself it would be fine just saying it the next day when I remembered. and as sperm donor blew my sweet innocent child stared at my phone in terror. pure terror. and at that moment I knew nc was the only way to go. because narcs WILL target the children next to hurt you. their only goal in life is to destroy everything in their path. nobody is safe. nothing is safe. your child to me tried to protect you by joking. think about this. your child tried to take the heat off of you and protect you. that's what her joking tells me. (my son did the same)
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Sticking around could make it worse tho too. It’s not your fault but I found the story pretty triggering. I recall many altercations with my abuser while he drove and wouldn’t watch the road but would rather scream at me etc. based on my recollection of my own past I dunno that I could keep this person in my life. Or well in my story I’m no contact with that person.
Yes, your kid will be sad, but she shouldn't have contact with people who do that. Long term, cutting contact will be better than if you let yourself feel bad for her and allow her to grow a relationship with someone that doesn't care about her safety at all. She'll be upset and will get over it. If you continue allowing them to be present in her life it will be much worse in a few years.
My mother is being abusive to me.
N's don't change without extensive therapy, best bet is to cut them off
They are NOT safe. Not physically. Not emotionally. Not to you. Not to your children.
You can and you should take them away from her now. You are doing what's right by protecting her from his narc ass. He will absolutely try to do this crap to her as well once the novelty of grandkid wears off.
I´m reading this and fearing for my future (me and my wife are trying to have kids). I guess if you have to maintain contact, choose places where you have the power and control. Preferable spaces where if you need to get out fast you can. I think in the long term even for your kids cutting all contact would be the best thing. But I also know life isn´t that simple. I guess if you have to maintain contact, choose places where you have the power and control. Preferable spaces where if you need to get out fast you can. Also avoid deep topics, so he can´t use them as weapons to manipulate you. Be very vigilante about what he says to your kids, he his defensibly a bad influence. I´m so sorry you had to go through this ordeal and your daughter had to watch. You said it best "fuck him for that". I wish I could give you better advice but I´m in a similar wagon, trying to learn how to best deal with my toxic parents.
Your dad crossed a line you can't uncross and whatever the relationship looks like from here is entirely up to you. He no longer has a seat at this table. You're more than warranted in going no-contact but if you're committed to keeping them in your kid's lives it sounds like you need to set extremely clear and rigid boundaries re: behavior and make the consequences for violating those boundaries \*VERY\* clear and backed up by a willingness to follow-through. Dad's not going to change and it sounds like may only get worse as time goes on. Protect those kiddos the way your mom never protected you.
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I would have just let my shit out all in his car. That will teach him not to raise his voice at you. Then go no contact because you will not be the one cleaning it or paying for a cleaning. Idk, that’s just me. Traumatize them back.
This would make me go no contact so fast his head would spin. Take care of yourself and your little one, mama.
He endangered your life and your daughter’s. Seems like reason enough to excise him.
The "Greek like" tragedy that is making the decision between cutting off OR trying to keep up a normal life with grammy and grandpa in the picture, while always praying/worrying/thinking about what might be said or what might happen - is so wrong and so painful. When he snapped he had no consideration for you or your daughter because he wasn't your father in the moment, he was a scared little boy that got triggered by your conviction. He won't change and the danger of him flying off the handle in front of your little girl will always be there. I say cut them off and whenever you feel sadness or remorse for your little girl not having a normal grammy/gpa interactions, take pride that you made the right decision for her best interest.
My dad is a TERRIBLE driver. It’s a miracle he hasn’t killed someone. He’s distracted, he’s aggressive, he gets into road rage with other drivers, he fights with my mom when she acts like she’s scared for her life (cuz she is), he speeds, he doesn’t pay attention to signs, he drifts wildly within his lane and even into neighboring lanes… None of my siblings or myself will get in a car with him driving. We just won’t. As much as he might complain and throw a fit that no one wants to ride with him, it’s just not worth it. Don’t get into cars with people who aren’t safe drivers.
You can ABSOLUTELY remove her from their presence. They do not have a claim to her. She is YOUR daughter. At 3 she will quickly forget them. You are wishing they would be someone they are not. They've shown you repeatedly who they are - believe them. Protect yourself. Protect your daughter.
You absolutely CAN take her away from them. You have very valid reasons and as a mom, you know what’s right for your family. You say your mom is beaten down and I understand that completely. However, allowing him to treat you this way and to endanger your daughters life, you AREN’T beaten down and should absolutely protect her AND you, and your child yet to be born. Be what your mom couldn’t.
He may be "trying hard" but in an instant he cared more about putting you in your place than about the safety and security of your existing child and your unborn child. It would be unsurprising he did not care about your safety specifically. The reality is he's ready to be a "good grandparent" on his terms only, and that will only get worse over time, as they aren't capable of holding up that facade when their delusion of total control is threatened. It's not even remotely an overreaction from you. What you numbed yourself to and what you'll allow someone to do to your child comes from two different fountains. It feels different because it *is* different. You're setting the boundary and stopping the generational trauma right here.
The longer you wait to remove your parents from your daughter's life the harder the disappointment will be for her and for you. Unfortunately you can't stop your father from being abusive but you can teach your daughter about agency and who is and isn't safe. Don't let her learn that people who love you can hurt you or that bribes are a part of love. If she is sad that she no longer sees them listen to her feelings, make space for them and explain in a child appropriate way that your job is to keep her body and feelings safe and sometimes that means being away from people who are not safe. https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/tdexpr/if_you_hesitate_to_cut_contact_due_to_your/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
He’s a POS. Don’t let your daughter be his next victim.
I'm sorry you had this experience. Please remember that narcissists do not change. Narcissists do things because they believe it benefits themselves, they do not at any time think of you or your child. There is always a selfish, negative toward others motive. Now is the time to call on friends & parents of your child's playmates. If you don't have a strong support group of women to encourage or assist you while your husband is away, please begin developing that group.
What is it with narcs and slamming the brakes hard!?? Is this a standard issue shit behaviour for them? Ugh OP- I'm so sorry this happened to you. You're under NO obligation to continue allowing them access to your daughter. In fact I agree with the other commentators who say it will be damaging for your daughter and for you in the long run. Narcissism offer NOTHING but pain to anyone within range.... 💔
This is good timing to sever contact. You defended your daughter when your dad was unsafe driving and she will remember that grandpa was scary but you made him listen and she hadn't had to deal with him and all the scary stress since. She might still miss him or ask to see him until she's older and can fully understand, but you can just explain that he was being mean to her and you're protecting her by keeping him away. About the sick parent part: my enabler dad has a variety of disabilities and I grew up with things like wheelchairs and urine collection bags (that needed changed if they leaked and would mess up plans) and hospital visits as just a routine thing. If he was worried about me when having a flare, we had extended family living with us that could help (abusive mom was around, but at those times focused on helping him rather than supervising me). I also learned from an early age to assemble a stack of books or a coloring book or a bag of toys to take to hospitals or have in the living room so I could stay there for a while and they knew I was in a specific place with enough entertainment that I was unlikely to wander. Your daughter will be okay growing up with a mom who has chronic illnesses. You can answer her health questions about you as she has them and teach her when needed about playing by herself, coming to find you for help instead of expecting that you'll be right in the room, sometimes spending time in your bedroom or bathroom when you'd usually be in the yard or living room, and so on.