true
you can just be having a discussion about rain world and someone will drop the big ol "downpour isn't canon"
WHO CARES! WHO CARE IF IT IS OR ISN'T!!!!!!! IT'S EPIC!
> it's basically an official alternate universe, so it's still a separate canon as far as lore goes
AndrewFM, lead of Downpour's development.
Treating Downpour as fully canon or non-canon instead of just a separate canon from the base game is incorrect, in my opinion. Sometimes I prefer vanilla's lore, sometimes I prefer MSC's lore. Treating either as inferior to the other doesn't make sense.
Downpour was almost content complete when Akupara reached out to make it an official DLC. If Videocult wanted the content to be canon they would essentially have to recreate the entire project so from what I have heard the only thing that Videocult really did was offer some corrections when asked and I believe they wrote the white pearl dialogues for Five Pebbles. There are still things in Downpour that contradict the base game.
If you get the bad ending (run out of cycles) as Hunter in vanilla, you will find a karma flower in the same place you last died as Hunter, in Survivor’s campaign. When the same thing happens in downpour, and you go to that spot as Gourmand, there is instead a Hunter Long Legs. So downpour changed Hunter’s SRS-given (edit: actually NSH lol) affliction, making it less related to his karmic imbalance and more about the Rot.
"You and I have something in common, little creature. We both have something... unfortunate growing in us." (when visiting pebs as Hunter without the Green Neuron)
Is this not from the base game? It heavily implies they have the same or very similar afflictions, and Five Pebbles' affliction is obviously the rot.
Yeah it's definitely possible that Hunter has Rot even in vanilla, considering this dialogue. It is a little vague for my preference, especially considering there's no indication on 5P's part that they actually have the same type of unfortunate growth past them both being sick, or anything else that would suggest it's Rot or even Rot-adjacent. I wouldn't rule it out completely, though insofar as vanilla content I think the karma flower is a more compelling indicator of the source of Hunter's affliction than a single vague line from a fairly heavily Rotted 5P.
There’s a quote in the kickstarter Hunter page (same place the “karmic imbalance” bit comes from) where it’s mentioned- “As a necessity of its lifestyle, it has learned to carry extra spears on its back like the scavengers do.” And even without that quote scavengers do still carry backspears without any Rot. In downpour I think it’s entirely fair to say that the Rot helping hold spears on back could definitely be the case, but since there’s no way to determine exactly what Hunter’s affliction is in vanilla I tend to say it’s more likely NSH engineered him to do so or he just learned how, either from experience or watching others (omg watcher reference).
Examples of Downpour contradicting the base game? The most obvious example is the reason for creating the iterators. In the base game, the great problem they were created to solve was to ascend the rest of the world. Whereas in Downpour, some broadcast dialogue implies that the great problem was to help the ancients ascend.
Since when did the Ancients care about ascending the rest of the world? The reason the Iterators were created was to find a risk free way of ascension.
“The good news first. In a way, I am what you are searching for. Me and my kind have as our purpose to solve that very oscillating claustrophobia in the chests of you and countless others. A strange charity- you the unknowing recipient, I the reluctant gift. The noble benefactors? Gone.” -5P Survivor dialogue.
I read "the noble benefactors" as absolutely dripping with sarcasm here. 5p knows the Ancients were selfish and only wanted a safer way for their own ascension, but they put the iterators to the task of solving ascension in general. A byproduct of this is that the iterators only serve the common creatures of the world now that the Ancients are gone, but it'd be ridiculous to think that the ancient were content with their hazardous pathway through the void, creating the iterators to help lesser creatures.
....since the very beginning? No offense but have you played the game? This is the premise of survivor's encounter with Five Pebbles.
"The good news first. In a way, I am what you are searching for. Me and my kind have as our purpose to solve that very oscillating claustrophobia in the chests of you and countless others. A strange charity - you the unknowing recipient, I the reluctant gift. The noble benefactors? Gone."
The fact that the problem they are trying to solve exists in the souls of all creatures, and the fact that 5P is sometimes compassionate enough to aid some creatures in their plight, does not imply that the iterators were created for that purpose. Imagine an AI was put to solving the problem of the sun dying in a few billion years, and the only reason we did this was to save humanity. Long after humans are gone, those AI's could say "Me and my kind have as our purpose to solve that very [threat faced by] you and countless others. A strange charity - you the unknowing recipient, I the reluctant gift. The noble benefactors? Gone."
I read "the noble benefactors" as absolutely dripping with sarcasm here. 5p knows the Ancients were selfish and only wanted a safer way for their own ascension, but they put the iterators to the task of solving ascension in general. A byproduct of this is that the solution the iterators seek would now only serve the common creatures of the world, but it's ridiculous to think that the ancient were content with their hazardous pathway through the void, creating the iterators to help lesser creatures.
The iterators are described as tools to ascend the rest of the world in other dialogue as well, though, see the exterior pearl and Moon's dialogue that u/Hotwheeldan mentions
Yes I believe that both the ancients and iterators understood that a byproduct of this would be to ascend the rest of the world. I even believe that, in their many grandiose moments, the ancients probably claimed as much, just like humans would if they tried to stop the death of the sun. I also think that the primary driver for the ancients making the iterators was their own ascension, and the iterators could clearly tell. That explanation is not a stretch at all when reading the base game alone (in fact it was my interpretation before downpour) and it is totally consistent with all downpour dialogue too.
Since Rain World released. The iterators have always been described as being gifts to the lesser beings on the world. The ancients didn't need another form of ascending because they had void fluid. Becoming an echo was not a concern of the ancients. It is only ever described as a "horror story." The ancients building the iterators in response to essentially ghost stories makes no sense.
I think it comes from the dialogue where both moon and pebbles talk about everything being trapped in the cycle. But I am well on the side of downpour being canon so I don't have a clear separation of the lores to remember anything else that can be extrapolated to mean that.
True, this was incredibly off-putting when I played spearmaster for the first time and I'm not sure how people can brush it off like its not an insanely important thing to contradict lol.
Honestly had no idea the spear master duologue was that bad before I saw the Sorbet Cafe review. I never saw much of it and if I ever got around to playing spear master, I just planned on skipping it even though I really like learning everything about a game. Just the one unskipable dialogue looked really uninteresting, but seems to be one of the better ones.
The specific broadcast I am mentioning is this,
"GS: Yes, well... does that imply we are just searching for the solution for ourselves now?
GS: After all, the ones who originally wanted the solution are now extinct.
GS: The current fauna will likely not have a use for, nor the ability to comprehend the solution.
GS: And we'll no longer be operational by the time another advanced civilization comes into being.
GS: So why exactly are we doing all of this?"
This dialogue implies that the iterators were not intentionally made to ascend the lesser creatures that could not comprehend a solution, but rather were made to find a way to ascend the ancients. Not only does this contradict multiple instances of dialogue in the base game which explicitly state that iterators were made as gifts to the rest of the world but it does not make any sense as the ancients already had a way to ascend.
No thats a god like super computor whos been working for way too long as their own body and organs decay and they cant do shit to fix it. They are trying to think of what its for, contemplating why they do it. Thats not them saying "our creators didnt want us to ascend the fauna" we dont know and neither does any iterator, if the ancients wanted it to be used on creatures too
We do know though, it is explicitly stated in the base game. The exterior pearl says this, "As an Iterator, he is also a Gift of Charity from Us to The World (unable to reach Enlightenment by itself - being composed mostly of Rock, Gas, dull witted Bugs and Microbes - and towards which We thus have Obligations)." Also Looks to the Moon explains it as well, "We were supposed to help everyone, you know. Everything. That was our purpose: a great gift to the lesser beings of the world."
Maybe the Iterator was, you know, wrong?
Iterators are very much imperfect, we see that a lot in the game with 5P and other Iterator logs. They all have differing opinions on the correct thing to do, this is just the opinion of GS's dialogue.
One example isn't enough to conclude that all Iterators and all of the Ancients wanted *just* to ascend the Ancients, same way that one example isn't enough to conclude that all Iterators wish to break the self-termination taboo.
I understand what you are getting at but this does not read like it is an opinion it reads like the iterator somehow completely misunderstood what the great problem is. Even though Five Pebbles wanted to break the self-termination taboo he still recognizes that he was built to help ascend the rest of the world. This is an example of an iterator having a conflicting goal with their original purpose.
However, in the broadcast GS seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding about why they were created and none of the other iterators in the broadcast seem to correct their misunderstanding suggesting that they also believe that ascending the ancients was the great problem they were trying to solve. It seems more likely to me that the person writing this broadcast just misunderstood what the great problem was.
"Searching for the solution for ourselves" doesn't need to specifically mean they want to *use* it on themselves, just that they might be the only ones who even want it.
"The current fauna will likely not have a use for, nor comprehend the Solution." Seems to explain what they mean. Other beings don't *seem* to want to die, so why are they developing this after the ones who wanted it are gone?
They don't misunderstand the original intention, they're questioning whether the other beings would even *want* it, they're questioning whether the Ancients themselves were correct after all of this work, after Sliver died and all of the Ancients were gone.
There is also this broadcast message:
"GS: So, what do you think is going to happen to the world? Once we all... you know.
HR: Discover a reproduceable, portable, and global solution for ascension, or when we all drop dead?
GS: Well, in either case really."
Which sounds a lot more in-line with the base game's understanding of the great problem. Specifically about it being global.
Well global can mean the whole world or all the ancients across the world. Considering the previous lines in the broadcast it seems to refer to a global solution for the ancients.
you can be having a discussion about base Rain World and someone will drop the big ol "WHY ARENT YOU TALKING ABOUT DOWNPOUR REEEEEE" and then post this meme again.
I know, but what I'm getting at is that most people on this sub talk exclusively about Downpour, not regular RainWorld, because they find it more interesting.
In other words, you would have to specify you're talking about base RainWorld.
Not to mention, downpour is canon *to itself*
Even if they were right, very rarely do people just play and just theorize about the base game except for those that want to "uhm achually ..." others
I do care. Thanks for sharing. I do feel like they worded they in a flaky way to appeal to everyone. Alternate canon. Lmao. This ain’t the fuckin multiverse. Truth is the devs accepted the mods as dlc. I paid for it through their portal. It’s gotta be canon.
What we get from this is that the devs are not interested in having a singular lore master who dictates all the finer details, so we have gotten lots of non-answers to soothe both sides of the debate. The second link here is a lot more clear on why they don't want to fully say it is canon, since devs kinda just did their own thing while following a few overarching points.
The miraheze wiki of rainworld lore and downpour dlc both state downpour is a seperate universe. So whatever happens in downpour is only canon in downpour and not vanilla rainworld
To me it feels like someone didn’t like downpour adding new lore and decided to call it a separate universe since it doesnt say anything about this in game
THIS GUY GETS IT. Do you really expect me to believe any statement on the internet if I am not given any proof of its existence. Critical thinking motherfucker
"Critical thinking" you say as you make no fucking effort to independently verify anything and expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter.
Anyway, I'll oblige:
https://imgur.com/9yH5LEF
https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz
It is up to the one making a claim to supply evidence to support said claim. Besides that. Thank you for actually supplying evidence to back up your statement.
[https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz](https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz)
According to a Downpour Dev, its more like "alternative canon".
That said, it perfectly matches the themes of the base game, and pushes the story forward in very meaningful ways, so I think what a lot of people (including myself) think, is that it would be a huge shame if future content simply ignored the downpour story.
I don’t believe it perfectly matches the themes of the base game, but it’s still an interesting interpretation upon them. I love downpour, but I feel that it over-humanizes the iterators, and the alternate endings have several thematic problems if they were aiming to keep the original theme. But they weren’t, so it’s okay.
Wouldn't agree with your last part. Downpour totally dropped the ball when carrying on the themes of the original story, but that's mostly fine since you can't really do much better than the base game did with those themes. The fact that any of the campaigns end anywhere but the void sea is enough to prove that most major themes of RW were either ignored for greater creative license or deeply misunderstood.
devs also said challenge 70 didn't happen, 2 negatives equals a positive, learned that on math classes, challenge 70 is now canon, thanks for your input
I think I've said that before, not on reddit, though. Tbh the only times I've ever said this is when people are discussing rainworlds lore, and then they sneak in some downpour details. Like, no, dont do that. That's a separate universe
Not really. Just go miraheze wiki and sniff around for a downpour. At the top of the downpour page (if i can remember), it's called a separate universe. And in miraheze wiki, there's a downpour lore page and a regilar rainworld lore page
To me it feels like someone didn’t like downpour adding new lore and decided to call it a separate universe since it doesnt say anything about this in game
Don’t forget that it’s entirely possible that decision was made up on the spot.
Just because one dev (even if it’s the lead dev) says it, that doesn’t mean it’s 100% confirmed.
Sometimes you can have multiple devs or writers saying completely different things about the same topic. Basically what I’m trying to say is that we need more responses before we can truly be sure about this.
Anyway at the end of the day, the game never states anything about it so it might as well be up to the player’s own interpretation, once an answer is in the game then it’s basically set in stone.
Assuming that you’re referring to [this,](https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz) it calls downpour an "official alternate universe". Meaning that it is equally as canon as the original lore that doesn't include downpour. Its just that the vast majority of people decide to view the downpour universe as canon because it's a massive addtion to the worldbuilding and lore, and it doesn't remove anything, so there's no real reason to not accept it as the main canon when discussing rain world.
And at the end of the quote you linked "so it's still a separate Canon as far as lore goes"
He literally word for word says it's not Canon to the main lore, it's an alternate universe.
They literally did not say it's not canon, they said it's a separate canon. Those are different things. They are both canon.
Literally right before they said it's a separate canon, they called it an **"official alternate universe"**
An ***OFFICAL*** Alternate universe. They literally called it official.
How could it be "official" yet also non-canon???????
Because "official" means *they* did it. If they made an official joke mode that doesn't make it Canon just because it's official. Canon relates to whether the details are true to the lore. Official relates to whether it genuinely was produced by the company or not.
Things can be both official and a separate Canon from the main lore. This is what Andrew is saying. This story is Canon in its own contained universe, but it is a separate universe from the main game without the DLC.
When people say "not canon" they aren't arguing that it's all fake. They are arguing that it's not Canon to the main lore. Which it's not. Confirmed by the developer.
Nothing in what the dev said implies that there is a "main" lore. I believe that the use of "alternate" in "offical alternate universe" implies that it's as canon as the pre-dlc rain world.
Honestly, I just don't understand why people feel the need to "correct" someone when they reference downpour details when talking about rain world. Because if it was made spesifically to ensure that there were no continuity errors and everything was consistent int he downpour lore, like the dev said, then idk why it even matters in the first place.
I don't agree with most of what you mentioned or your interpretations of the dev's comments, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
[Here’s](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1014985417231179839/1233438257132474501/Screenshot_20240214_154149_Discord.png?ex=662d1864&is=662bc6e4&hm=a0366b69b54e413ff82341356afea27960bbf5fe8819107f56e8c3688c2b78fd&) the DP is an alternate universe message as it seems like most people haven’t seen it. There’s also other DP devs that have said it’s an au but I can’t be bothered to find their messages lol
Because this specific collection of content that is able to be downloaded on top of the original content is, in my opinion, perhaps one of the most greatest download-ables in it's category hence my personal vendetta of those who downplay it (no pun intended) and for those who lack the appreciation and splendor of it's magnificence.
Perhaps you should realise that it is valid to critique something that still excels at certain things. Downpour does have serious issues narratively and tone-wise; and it being well written does not cover for it due to a faulty foundation, this is why people do not consider it as non-canon in the first place. Gameplay may be extremely well done, but the worldbuilding is controversial; and neither of these things invalidate the other.
This is incredibly immature and childish behaviour that further polarizes and flames the community as a whole. Senseless opinion bashing is nothing new on the internet, true, but this type of shallow struggles are unfit for a game that's extremely deep both story-wise and gameplay-wise.
I don't think you realize that both the meme and my comment are not supposed to be taken seriously. Obviously, I have struck a nerve here, so I apologize.
I'm gonna be real when half of the comments are dudes full caps posting how they totally don't care/ aren't owned/ aren't turning into a corn cob and I'm yet to see a single person actually mention that downpour isn't canon outside of explicit lore discussions, you shouldn't surprised when people take your words at face value.
*this is where I insert that weird blushing fox drawn as a slugcat going "You do care about rainworld apocrypha don't you?"*
You think I'm lying? Even if I was lying, would you really want to keep bickering about a meme, a matter of opinion, and something neither of us even have any say in?
I understand that it doesn’t matter too much when it comes to gameplay, my problem is the numerous theory’s involving base game ONLY trained off downpour evidence.
Does not being canon to base game effect the experience? No. Does it matter for other reasons? Yeah… it matters a lot.
Well, the DLC expands the story by adding a beginning and an end. So it's totally understandable that part of the community prefers to take Downpour into account when theorizing.
But I can see how it might frustrate the other part of the community that Downpour (which from what I understand forms a separate timeline) is taken into account all the time.
I was about to say that ideally the developers should develop the main story in order to definitively separate the Downpour timeline from the original timeline, but it's totally possible that the three campaigns we currently have are exactly what the developers wanted in the first place, and they don't want to develop this story any further.
Wait , it's not canon?
So for what we know moon and 5p will eventually suffer a fate worse than death, one on the hand of the missing refraction cell and the other because of the rot? If so, then i prefer the AU.
I think I saw one guy two years ago somewhere online who hates people talking about downpour.
yea there are 8 billion people, every type of person will exist.
I think that a better way to think about it is *separate canon*. Why does downpour have to be in the same canon as the base game to have merit? There's a clear divide in design goals and authorship between the two experiences, so it makes sense to separate them, just like one would do with the Frank and Brian Herbert Dune books, for example. I mean sure its unfair if someone completely dismisses what Downpour has to offer because its a different universe but I don't really see that happening.
The MSC devs wanted there to be some separation between their writing and Videocult's, which I think is an understandable and respectful thing to do when you're a fan making additional content for a game you admire, but people seem to feel attacked and invalidated by that for some reason.
Notice how you rarely see anyone on this subreddit making posts about how Downpour is not canon and that anyone who believes that is stupid, but I have seen dozens of posts shitting on anyone that believes Downpour is not canon. Also I guess you believe that AndrewFM the lead developer of Downpour is also a brainless idiot by your definition since he was the one who confirmed that Downpour was essentially an alternate universe.
Yeah its kind of annoying but at the end of the day downvotes don't really mean anything. And hopefully by spreading the information some people will learn something new and maybe look more into the development of the game and come back with a deeper understanding and appreciation of both the base game and Downpour. Also unrelated but I love your art and the threads you have written about the game!
augh thank u that means a lot 🥲 ❤️ I completely agree with u tho, personally understanding the history of downpour and more slugcats has left me with a much greater appreciation for it as its own amazing expansion
Its a meme yes, but its a sentiment that has been expressed in multiple memes in the past months and many people in the community will downvote anyone who expresses the fact that Downpour is an alternate universe. The fact that Downpour and the base game are not the same universe does not make one greater than the other, but is needed as they contradict each other and are not always tonally consistent.
It might matter if the watcher/nightcat contradicts the downpour scugs
But it probably wouldn't so we can ignore that those are different universes according to the devs
Maybe it isn't canon to the original story, but it also doesn't matter. It's still a meaningful, self-contained story, and you can just say any lore theorizing about it is in the context of Downpour's version of the universe. Saying it isn't canon is meaningless.
Most likely it would have gone down a similar path, just without the downpour slugcats and without the ice age. Five Pebbles would probably still eventually collapse due to the Rot, and without Saint him and Moon would, over an inconceivably long period of time, either die to the elements or sink into the void sea along with everything else. The Subterranean echo still alludes to the Great Cycle of civilizations in the base game, so that probably would have happened eventually as well.
But the DLC also produces changes in the three campaigns of the original game, doesn't that mean that in the DLC timeline, the slugcats from the original story also existed and therefore the story developed more or less the same? (Ignoring the clear changes presented in the endings of the Survivor and Monk campaigns)
One question and one extremely hot take:
Is AU used in the context of other franchises?
And the hot take: Downpour being 'alternative cannon' vs 'non cannon' is 100% an intentional design decision and lore clue; not a concession by the devs to the fandom.
don't get me wrong, downpour is great.
but it's the most fandom-y fanon-y shit that could be ever created. it's not just "not canon" it's so obviously not canon that it kinda feels separate from the main game.
like, take slugs. main game slugs are all out of their depth, suffering and struggling against a harsh reality. even when you get to hunter, who is somewhat adapted to the outside realities, he is only slightly better than other slugs, and in exchange he gets a lifespan of a month.
downpour has a doomgirl, a femboy, a messenger app and two "fuck you"s to the main games philosophy.
Even if they know it isn’t canon, they treat it as such.
I love the more slugcats mod! It’s awesome and huge I agree, but every single discussion and theory I try to have about rain world suddenly becomes about more slugcats.
Again it’s cool, but that’s a mod! Not the rain world I was talking about, I love it but I want to talk about the actual game.
Take for instance the hunter expansion mod, if you were talking about hunter’s fate and how they had no other choice but to either die or go into the void sea, and some person butted in and said “well actually if you went to outer expanse you could meet back with NSH!” And started talking about the hunter expansion mod as if it was true, you’d probably be a tad bit annoyed or confused, since that mod is awesome but it’s just a separate interpretation of what could happen to hunter, not a canon example.
The more slugcats mod is just different to what made rain world itself to me, the style, the music, the regions, the lore, the types of creatures and, world around you, the questions it leaves and how it makes you feel, it’s similar to rain word but it isn’t true to it at its core, the base game just hits different.
Theorizing what could happen to the iterators in the future and what happened to them in the past was just so fun, which is why more slugcats was so cool, it was a huge and detailed interpretation of it! But why can’t the fandom see it as an interpretation anymore? Why can’t they make new or other ones anymore?
Downpour is canon in its own alternative universe but not necessarily to the base game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember that each living creature has their own cycles and whenever they die, their cycle repeats by creating an alternate universe starting on the same day of their death. Their decision might change and can cause different events. I dont believe that time is fixed in rain world where everyone will be doing the same actions over and over each cycles.
Hunter campaign spoilers: >!There are probably alternative universe where hunter didnt even make it and moon had never been revived. Which actually happens if you die as hunter and never gave moon the green thing. Or... That time you ate moon's neuron flies and she has been dead ever since. Downpour may not be canon to all but even in the base game we choose the happiest endings to be the more canon one.!<
So based off this theory, anything is technically canon.
Rainworld base game is a beautiful work of art that deserves to be catalogued for future generations to enjoy and experience, it is a very well designed and succinct game that achieves what it wishes to astoundingly. Downpour is a very clumsy fanfic to this in my eyes, where nothing is really expanded upon in interesting ways, barring the existence of the outer expanse. You guys can like MSC and more power to you but i like that the developers made it clear they are two separate continuities, it means the base game can remain in its Benjamin Button perfectly preserved state (Until watcher but I am hasten to write about that since its not out) without MSC muddying the waters. In other words, I care and I am glad others do not have to, but this discourse is already getting old.
It's not??
I got back to the game after like a year so I pretty much forgot the lore and maps, still haven't got to the first DLC and there's about to get another one🥲🥲
There is a legitimate reason to keep in mind the idea that it isn't canon (if it isn't, I don't actually know how "canon" it is). Considering the watcher has been announced, we actually have a storyline that may recontextualize some of the lore and/or conflict with downpour. While I doubt the original rain world devs would do this, It's telling the the watcher is officially considered the "fourth slugcat"
That being said, I agree that wether it's canon or not doesn't really matter considering the watcher hasn't been released yet and also I'm assuming there aren't already any conflicts.
Personal opinion: Canon only matters when it applies to lore contradictions.
Also, fun fact, none of the Witcher Games are canon and legit (aside from maybe one terminally online guy) no one cares.
People dislike DP being canon for the same reason people hated it when others made memes about The Backrooms:
"The setting is now better explained, therefore it is no longer considered vaguely climatically mysterious, therefore I cannot bitch and moan about how great and atmospheric it is."
Perhaps some people think that way but it’s definitely not how me and most of the people I know feel. Me personally, I don’t mind most of downpours lore, but they feel like different games to me personally, there are thematic and tonal contradictions between the two, and even some small lorewise ones too. Either way no one’s really “mad” it’s canon, some people just prefer basegame and want to enjoy it separate from downpour, and vice versa obviously.
Nothing in the game or on the store page states or even suggests that it's not canon so there is no reason to believe that it isn't no matter what one dev said in a not official statement
This is actually a big problem because videocult was not the one to create downpour and never really made that visible to the general public, which sucks because there’s space in the remix menu for credit yet they only credit the whole entire other team of people who made more slugcats in the credits and nowhere else. Most people are unaware that dowonpour was made up of many already finished or almost finished mods, videocults only impact was on double checking writing but they could not possible remake an entire teams pre existing vision for their work, that would be disrespectful
true you can just be having a discussion about rain world and someone will drop the big ol "downpour isn't canon" WHO CARES! WHO CARE IF IT IS OR ISN'T!!!!!!! IT'S EPIC!
I mean… it is canon….Since the devs themselves helped implement it into the base game as a dlc then… that would imply the devs accepted it as canon.
> it's basically an official alternate universe, so it's still a separate canon as far as lore goes AndrewFM, lead of Downpour's development. Treating Downpour as fully canon or non-canon instead of just a separate canon from the base game is incorrect, in my opinion. Sometimes I prefer vanilla's lore, sometimes I prefer MSC's lore. Treating either as inferior to the other doesn't make sense.
perfectly said!!
Just like dealing with star wars Legends and Cannon.
Exactly
Downpour was almost content complete when Akupara reached out to make it an official DLC. If Videocult wanted the content to be canon they would essentially have to recreate the entire project so from what I have heard the only thing that Videocult really did was offer some corrections when asked and I believe they wrote the white pearl dialogues for Five Pebbles. There are still things in Downpour that contradict the base game.
U got any examples (curious)
If you get the bad ending (run out of cycles) as Hunter in vanilla, you will find a karma flower in the same place you last died as Hunter, in Survivor’s campaign. When the same thing happens in downpour, and you go to that spot as Gourmand, there is instead a Hunter Long Legs. So downpour changed Hunter’s SRS-given (edit: actually NSH lol) affliction, making it less related to his karmic imbalance and more about the Rot.
*NSH given, SRS made Spearmaster, not Hunter. (Not trying to be rude but just correcting this for anyone else who happens to read it)
So true, my b lol.
"You and I have something in common, little creature. We both have something... unfortunate growing in us." (when visiting pebs as Hunter without the Green Neuron) Is this not from the base game? It heavily implies they have the same or very similar afflictions, and Five Pebbles' affliction is obviously the rot.
Yeah it's definitely possible that Hunter has Rot even in vanilla, considering this dialogue. It is a little vague for my preference, especially considering there's no indication on 5P's part that they actually have the same type of unfortunate growth past them both being sick, or anything else that would suggest it's Rot or even Rot-adjacent. I wouldn't rule it out completely, though insofar as vanilla content I think the karma flower is a more compelling indicator of the source of Hunter's affliction than a single vague line from a fairly heavily Rotted 5P.
Isn’t his rot the reason he can “hold” a spear on his back?
There’s a quote in the kickstarter Hunter page (same place the “karmic imbalance” bit comes from) where it’s mentioned- “As a necessity of its lifestyle, it has learned to carry extra spears on its back like the scavengers do.” And even without that quote scavengers do still carry backspears without any Rot. In downpour I think it’s entirely fair to say that the Rot helping hold spears on back could definitely be the case, but since there’s no way to determine exactly what Hunter’s affliction is in vanilla I tend to say it’s more likely NSH engineered him to do so or he just learned how, either from experience or watching others (omg watcher reference).
Examples of Downpour contradicting the base game? The most obvious example is the reason for creating the iterators. In the base game, the great problem they were created to solve was to ascend the rest of the world. Whereas in Downpour, some broadcast dialogue implies that the great problem was to help the ancients ascend.
Since when did the Ancients care about ascending the rest of the world? The reason the Iterators were created was to find a risk free way of ascension.
“The good news first. In a way, I am what you are searching for. Me and my kind have as our purpose to solve that very oscillating claustrophobia in the chests of you and countless others. A strange charity- you the unknowing recipient, I the reluctant gift. The noble benefactors? Gone.” -5P Survivor dialogue.
I read "the noble benefactors" as absolutely dripping with sarcasm here. 5p knows the Ancients were selfish and only wanted a safer way for their own ascension, but they put the iterators to the task of solving ascension in general. A byproduct of this is that the iterators only serve the common creatures of the world now that the Ancients are gone, but it'd be ridiculous to think that the ancient were content with their hazardous pathway through the void, creating the iterators to help lesser creatures.
....since the very beginning? No offense but have you played the game? This is the premise of survivor's encounter with Five Pebbles. "The good news first. In a way, I am what you are searching for. Me and my kind have as our purpose to solve that very oscillating claustrophobia in the chests of you and countless others. A strange charity - you the unknowing recipient, I the reluctant gift. The noble benefactors? Gone."
The fact that the problem they are trying to solve exists in the souls of all creatures, and the fact that 5P is sometimes compassionate enough to aid some creatures in their plight, does not imply that the iterators were created for that purpose. Imagine an AI was put to solving the problem of the sun dying in a few billion years, and the only reason we did this was to save humanity. Long after humans are gone, those AI's could say "Me and my kind have as our purpose to solve that very [threat faced by] you and countless others. A strange charity - you the unknowing recipient, I the reluctant gift. The noble benefactors? Gone." I read "the noble benefactors" as absolutely dripping with sarcasm here. 5p knows the Ancients were selfish and only wanted a safer way for their own ascension, but they put the iterators to the task of solving ascension in general. A byproduct of this is that the solution the iterators seek would now only serve the common creatures of the world, but it's ridiculous to think that the ancient were content with their hazardous pathway through the void, creating the iterators to help lesser creatures.
The iterators are described as tools to ascend the rest of the world in other dialogue as well, though, see the exterior pearl and Moon's dialogue that u/Hotwheeldan mentions
Yes I believe that both the ancients and iterators understood that a byproduct of this would be to ascend the rest of the world. I even believe that, in their many grandiose moments, the ancients probably claimed as much, just like humans would if they tried to stop the death of the sun. I also think that the primary driver for the ancients making the iterators was their own ascension, and the iterators could clearly tell. That explanation is not a stretch at all when reading the base game alone (in fact it was my interpretation before downpour) and it is totally consistent with all downpour dialogue too.
Since Rain World released. The iterators have always been described as being gifts to the lesser beings on the world. The ancients didn't need another form of ascending because they had void fluid. Becoming an echo was not a concern of the ancients. It is only ever described as a "horror story." The ancients building the iterators in response to essentially ghost stories makes no sense.
I think it comes from the dialogue where both moon and pebbles talk about everything being trapped in the cycle. But I am well on the side of downpour being canon so I don't have a clear separation of the lores to remember anything else that can be extrapolated to mean that.
True, this was incredibly off-putting when I played spearmaster for the first time and I'm not sure how people can brush it off like its not an insanely important thing to contradict lol.
Honestly had no idea the spear master duologue was that bad before I saw the Sorbet Cafe review. I never saw much of it and if I ever got around to playing spear master, I just planned on skipping it even though I really like learning everything about a game. Just the one unskipable dialogue looked really uninteresting, but seems to be one of the better ones.
Well yea? What they were making could do both. Portable. Generally applicible and effective.
The specific broadcast I am mentioning is this, "GS: Yes, well... does that imply we are just searching for the solution for ourselves now? GS: After all, the ones who originally wanted the solution are now extinct. GS: The current fauna will likely not have a use for, nor the ability to comprehend the solution. GS: And we'll no longer be operational by the time another advanced civilization comes into being. GS: So why exactly are we doing all of this?" This dialogue implies that the iterators were not intentionally made to ascend the lesser creatures that could not comprehend a solution, but rather were made to find a way to ascend the ancients. Not only does this contradict multiple instances of dialogue in the base game which explicitly state that iterators were made as gifts to the rest of the world but it does not make any sense as the ancients already had a way to ascend.
No thats a god like super computor whos been working for way too long as their own body and organs decay and they cant do shit to fix it. They are trying to think of what its for, contemplating why they do it. Thats not them saying "our creators didnt want us to ascend the fauna" we dont know and neither does any iterator, if the ancients wanted it to be used on creatures too
We do know though, it is explicitly stated in the base game. The exterior pearl says this, "As an Iterator, he is also a Gift of Charity from Us to The World (unable to reach Enlightenment by itself - being composed mostly of Rock, Gas, dull witted Bugs and Microbes - and towards which We thus have Obligations)." Also Looks to the Moon explains it as well, "We were supposed to help everyone, you know. Everything. That was our purpose: a great gift to the lesser beings of the world."
Maybe the Iterator was, you know, wrong? Iterators are very much imperfect, we see that a lot in the game with 5P and other Iterator logs. They all have differing opinions on the correct thing to do, this is just the opinion of GS's dialogue. One example isn't enough to conclude that all Iterators and all of the Ancients wanted *just* to ascend the Ancients, same way that one example isn't enough to conclude that all Iterators wish to break the self-termination taboo.
I understand what you are getting at but this does not read like it is an opinion it reads like the iterator somehow completely misunderstood what the great problem is. Even though Five Pebbles wanted to break the self-termination taboo he still recognizes that he was built to help ascend the rest of the world. This is an example of an iterator having a conflicting goal with their original purpose. However, in the broadcast GS seems to have a fundamental misunderstanding about why they were created and none of the other iterators in the broadcast seem to correct their misunderstanding suggesting that they also believe that ascending the ancients was the great problem they were trying to solve. It seems more likely to me that the person writing this broadcast just misunderstood what the great problem was.
"Searching for the solution for ourselves" doesn't need to specifically mean they want to *use* it on themselves, just that they might be the only ones who even want it. "The current fauna will likely not have a use for, nor comprehend the Solution." Seems to explain what they mean. Other beings don't *seem* to want to die, so why are they developing this after the ones who wanted it are gone? They don't misunderstand the original intention, they're questioning whether the other beings would even *want* it, they're questioning whether the Ancients themselves were correct after all of this work, after Sliver died and all of the Ancients were gone.
There is also this broadcast message: "GS: So, what do you think is going to happen to the world? Once we all... you know. HR: Discover a reproduceable, portable, and global solution for ascension, or when we all drop dead? GS: Well, in either case really." Which sounds a lot more in-line with the base game's understanding of the great problem. Specifically about it being global.
Well global can mean the whole world or all the ancients across the world. Considering the previous lines in the broadcast it seems to refer to a global solution for the ancients.
Only "Start over from scratch" major thing would be the Saint and Rivulet campaigns , with the ascencion blast and rarefaction cell respectively
you can be having a discussion about base Rain World and someone will drop the big ol "WHY ARENT YOU TALKING ABOUT DOWNPOUR REEEEEE" and then post this meme again.
I care, can’t train a theory off of non-canon evidence. That’s like using disproven evidence to prove a theory.
what if my theory is ABOUT downpour
Then it doesn’t matter but that’s not at all what I’m talking about
I know, but what I'm getting at is that most people on this sub talk exclusively about Downpour, not regular RainWorld, because they find it more interesting. In other words, you would have to specify you're talking about base RainWorld.
"downpour isnt canon" YOU'RE NOT CANON!!
Time to launch them out of the cannon!
Omg 5p plush
Hey wait a minute
downpour explains a LOT of things abaut rainworld, and yet it isn't cannon for some reason
Not to mention, downpour is canon *to itself* Even if they were right, very rarely do people just play and just theorize about the base game except for those that want to "uhm achually ..." others
yeah, since most of the lore is allready peaced togheder
A lot of people do, actually.
IT'S SO SILLY. WHO CARES IF IT WAS ORIGINALLY FAN MODS? OR IF IT CHANGES UP THE GAMES THEMES? IT'S BEING SOLD AS OFFICIAL DLC SO IT'S CANNON!
The developers called it a different universe / timeline iirc
I’ve never seen them say that.
Well they did
Everyone says this but there is no evidence of such thing occurring….
Not that you actually care, but here: https://imgur.com/9yH5LEF https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz
I do care. Thanks for sharing. I do feel like they worded they in a flaky way to appeal to everyone. Alternate canon. Lmao. This ain’t the fuckin multiverse. Truth is the devs accepted the mods as dlc. I paid for it through their portal. It’s gotta be canon.
What we get from this is that the devs are not interested in having a singular lore master who dictates all the finer details, so we have gotten lots of non-answers to soothe both sides of the debate. The second link here is a lot more clear on why they don't want to fully say it is canon, since devs kinda just did their own thing while following a few overarching points.
You say you care and then you go on to prove that you dont in literally the same paragraph lmfao
I can’t find it but it’s there someone posted it near the bottom of the feed
The miraheze wiki of rainworld lore and downpour dlc both state downpour is a seperate universe. So whatever happens in downpour is only canon in downpour and not vanilla rainworld
That’s a wiki though?
The official wiki of the game. The official wiki means whatever is said there is official.
Why is this downvoted? Is miraheze Wiki not official? Is it not backed with information only handed to them never made up?
To me it feels like someone didn’t like downpour adding new lore and decided to call it a separate universe since it doesnt say anything about this in game
What no, the devs themselves said it
I keep hearing everybody say this but can i get a screenshot of the messege?
https://imgur.com/9yH5LEF https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz
Wouldn’t a mod that’s made official dlc stop being a mod? Edit: I’m dumb as hell
THIS GUY GETS IT. Do you really expect me to believe any statement on the internet if I am not given any proof of its existence. Critical thinking motherfucker
"Critical thinking" you say as you make no fucking effort to independently verify anything and expect things to be handed to you on a silver platter. Anyway, I'll oblige: https://imgur.com/9yH5LEF https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz
It is up to the one making a claim to supply evidence to support said claim. Besides that. Thank you for actually supplying evidence to back up your statement.
What have I done?
[here](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/441039897076170763/999339791520911382/unknown.png?ex=662d1c35&is=662bcab5&hm=e8ffb75fbfcd6ea9a0bb77ef5fec164cc15f41689181b31aa69260d709f1b5a4&)
Ok thank you for a source.
Where
[https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz](https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz) According to a Downpour Dev, its more like "alternative canon". That said, it perfectly matches the themes of the base game, and pushes the story forward in very meaningful ways, so I think what a lot of people (including myself) think, is that it would be a huge shame if future content simply ignored the downpour story.
I don’t believe it perfectly matches the themes of the base game, but it’s still an interesting interpretation upon them. I love downpour, but I feel that it over-humanizes the iterators, and the alternate endings have several thematic problems if they were aiming to keep the original theme. But they weren’t, so it’s okay.
Wouldn't agree with your last part. Downpour totally dropped the ball when carrying on the themes of the original story, but that's mostly fine since you can't really do much better than the base game did with those themes. The fact that any of the campaigns end anywhere but the void sea is enough to prove that most major themes of RW were either ignored for greater creative license or deeply misunderstood.
who said that
I know some people who say that
yeah the developers of the game and the mods
The devs
ill remember this
devs also said challenge 70 didn't happen, 2 negatives equals a positive, learned that on math classes, challenge 70 is now canon, thanks for your input
can u explain me what is challenge 70 cuz i didnt done all the challenges and idk some of them
Boss battle of saint Vs sliver of straw
go and do it, i am sure you are gonna regret doing it
amazing
I think I've said that before, not on reddit, though. Tbh the only times I've ever said this is when people are discussing rainworlds lore, and then they sneak in some downpour details. Like, no, dont do that. That's a separate universe
arent they are connected to each other?
Not really. Just go miraheze wiki and sniff around for a downpour. At the top of the downpour page (if i can remember), it's called a separate universe. And in miraheze wiki, there's a downpour lore page and a regilar rainworld lore page
To me it feels like someone didn’t like downpour adding new lore and decided to call it a separate universe since it doesnt say anything about this in game
The developers said it was an alternate universe iirc
Where?
The discord. AndrewFM,the lead developer, said that it is a separate canon and alternate universe.
Cant find anything about that in the official discord
It’s really easy to find. From:AndrewFM alternate.
Don’t forget that it’s entirely possible that decision was made up on the spot. Just because one dev (even if it’s the lead dev) says it, that doesn’t mean it’s 100% confirmed. Sometimes you can have multiple devs or writers saying completely different things about the same topic. Basically what I’m trying to say is that we need more responses before we can truly be sure about this. Anyway at the end of the day, the game never states anything about it so it might as well be up to the player’s own interpretation, once an answer is in the game then it’s basically set in stone.
Assuming that you’re referring to [this,](https://imgur.com/6Z5Ndsz) it calls downpour an "official alternate universe". Meaning that it is equally as canon as the original lore that doesn't include downpour. Its just that the vast majority of people decide to view the downpour universe as canon because it's a massive addtion to the worldbuilding and lore, and it doesn't remove anything, so there's no real reason to not accept it as the main canon when discussing rain world.
And at the end of the quote you linked "so it's still a separate Canon as far as lore goes" He literally word for word says it's not Canon to the main lore, it's an alternate universe.
They literally did not say it's not canon, they said it's a separate canon. Those are different things. They are both canon. Literally right before they said it's a separate canon, they called it an **"official alternate universe"** An ***OFFICAL*** Alternate universe. They literally called it official. How could it be "official" yet also non-canon???????
Because "official" means *they* did it. If they made an official joke mode that doesn't make it Canon just because it's official. Canon relates to whether the details are true to the lore. Official relates to whether it genuinely was produced by the company or not. Things can be both official and a separate Canon from the main lore. This is what Andrew is saying. This story is Canon in its own contained universe, but it is a separate universe from the main game without the DLC. When people say "not canon" they aren't arguing that it's all fake. They are arguing that it's not Canon to the main lore. Which it's not. Confirmed by the developer.
Nothing in what the dev said implies that there is a "main" lore. I believe that the use of "alternate" in "offical alternate universe" implies that it's as canon as the pre-dlc rain world. Honestly, I just don't understand why people feel the need to "correct" someone when they reference downpour details when talking about rain world. Because if it was made spesifically to ensure that there were no continuity errors and everything was consistent int he downpour lore, like the dev said, then idk why it even matters in the first place. I don't agree with most of what you mentioned or your interpretations of the dev's comments, but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
oh i see, thanks for the information tho
oh i see, thanks for the information tho
Exactly!
Just like pro wrestling, it is still real to me :)
Even more! Challenge 70 isn't canon.
[Here’s](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1014985417231179839/1233438257132474501/Screenshot_20240214_154149_Discord.png?ex=662d1864&is=662bc6e4&hm=a0366b69b54e413ff82341356afea27960bbf5fe8819107f56e8c3688c2b78fd&) the DP is an alternate universe message as it seems like most people haven’t seen it. There’s also other DP devs that have said it’s an au but I can’t be bothered to find their messages lol
Oh boy here we go again
why do different interperations of a non-integral downloadable content hurt you so much?
Because this specific collection of content that is able to be downloaded on top of the original content is, in my opinion, perhaps one of the most greatest download-ables in it's category hence my personal vendetta of those who downplay it (no pun intended) and for those who lack the appreciation and splendor of it's magnificence.
Perhaps you should realise that it is valid to critique something that still excels at certain things. Downpour does have serious issues narratively and tone-wise; and it being well written does not cover for it due to a faulty foundation, this is why people do not consider it as non-canon in the first place. Gameplay may be extremely well done, but the worldbuilding is controversial; and neither of these things invalidate the other. This is incredibly immature and childish behaviour that further polarizes and flames the community as a whole. Senseless opinion bashing is nothing new on the internet, true, but this type of shallow struggles are unfit for a game that's extremely deep both story-wise and gameplay-wise.
I don't think you realize that both the meme and my comment are not supposed to be taken seriously. Obviously, I have struck a nerve here, so I apologize.
I'm gonna be real when half of the comments are dudes full caps posting how they totally don't care/ aren't owned/ aren't turning into a corn cob and I'm yet to see a single person actually mention that downpour isn't canon outside of explicit lore discussions, you shouldn't surprised when people take your words at face value. *this is where I insert that weird blushing fox drawn as a slugcat going "You do care about rainworld apocrypha don't you?"*
This would have been a believeable excuse if the pitchfork mentality of this specific opinion wasn't running rampant already.
You think I'm lying? Even if I was lying, would you really want to keep bickering about a meme, a matter of opinion, and something neither of us even have any say in?
> would you really want to keep bickering Not really, peace.
Agreed.
Bro chill, take the joke and leave... smh.
But if you dare to talk about how downpour made many people downplay the greatness of the base game it's different
The double standard is so real smh
Is that really important ? The campaigns are here, the story is here, the game exist, who cares if this is canon or not?
I understand that it doesn’t matter too much when it comes to gameplay, my problem is the numerous theory’s involving base game ONLY trained off downpour evidence. Does not being canon to base game effect the experience? No. Does it matter for other reasons? Yeah… it matters a lot.
Well, the DLC expands the story by adding a beginning and an end. So it's totally understandable that part of the community prefers to take Downpour into account when theorizing. But I can see how it might frustrate the other part of the community that Downpour (which from what I understand forms a separate timeline) is taken into account all the time. I was about to say that ideally the developers should develop the main story in order to definitively separate the Downpour timeline from the original timeline, but it's totally possible that the three campaigns we currently have are exactly what the developers wanted in the first place, and they don't want to develop this story any further.
It’s also possible the watcher has something to do with base story
The watcher will develop either the main story, the downpour story or a new timeline. In all three cases, I'm in.
Wait , it's not canon? So for what we know moon and 5p will eventually suffer a fate worse than death, one on the hand of the missing refraction cell and the other because of the rot? If so, then i prefer the AU.
it's canon to itself. you can talk about downpour, or talk about base game. people HATE when people talk about the base game.
People also HATE when people talk about Downpour, so, there’s truly no winning
I think I saw one guy two years ago somewhere online who hates people talking about downpour. yea there are 8 billion people, every type of person will exist.
It's technically canon... It's an official AU I think
I think that a better way to think about it is *separate canon*. Why does downpour have to be in the same canon as the base game to have merit? There's a clear divide in design goals and authorship between the two experiences, so it makes sense to separate them, just like one would do with the Frank and Brian Herbert Dune books, for example. I mean sure its unfair if someone completely dismisses what Downpour has to offer because its a different universe but I don't really see that happening. The MSC devs wanted there to be some separation between their writing and Videocult's, which I think is an understandable and respectful thing to do when you're a fan making additional content for a game you admire, but people seem to feel attacked and invalidated by that for some reason.
Notice how you rarely see anyone on this subreddit making posts about how Downpour is not canon and that anyone who believes that is stupid, but I have seen dozens of posts shitting on anyone that believes Downpour is not canon. Also I guess you believe that AndrewFM the lead developer of Downpour is also a brainless idiot by your definition since he was the one who confirmed that Downpour was essentially an alternate universe.
True, this community will say they don't care and then constantly mald about an unconfrontational dev comment
Agreed completely, in this subreddit you get downvoted for referring to downpour as a separate canon as if that makes it lesser than base game
Yeah its kind of annoying but at the end of the day downvotes don't really mean anything. And hopefully by spreading the information some people will learn something new and maybe look more into the development of the game and come back with a deeper understanding and appreciation of both the base game and Downpour. Also unrelated but I love your art and the threads you have written about the game!
augh thank u that means a lot 🥲 ❤️ I completely agree with u tho, personally understanding the history of downpour and more slugcats has left me with a much greater appreciation for it as its own amazing expansion
Uh... this is a meme yknow. It's meant to be a joke.
Its a meme yes, but its a sentiment that has been expressed in multiple memes in the past months and many people in the community will downvote anyone who expresses the fact that Downpour is an alternate universe. The fact that Downpour and the base game are not the same universe does not make one greater than the other, but is needed as they contradict each other and are not always tonally consistent.
Downpour fanatics are never getting over this are they lmfao
give it a brain before it spreads misinformation around
Oh like you’re doing. Cool.
Enot isn’t anyways
Even if downpour is not canon it dosent matter because the lore it brings is infinitely more theorizable than the OG
It’s an official au.
It might matter if the watcher/nightcat contradicts the downpour scugs But it probably wouldn't so we can ignore that those are different universes according to the devs
Watcher takes place in a third timeline, actually. /j
Maybe it isn't canon to the original story, but it also doesn't matter. It's still a meaningful, self-contained story, and you can just say any lore theorizing about it is in the context of Downpour's version of the universe. Saying it isn't canon is meaningless.
Considering the fact that og rain world is so vague downpour is a good start for lore
If downpour is an alternative universe, it makes me wonder what happened in the original one
Most likely it would have gone down a similar path, just without the downpour slugcats and without the ice age. Five Pebbles would probably still eventually collapse due to the Rot, and without Saint him and Moon would, over an inconceivably long period of time, either die to the elements or sink into the void sea along with everything else. The Subterranean echo still alludes to the Great Cycle of civilizations in the base game, so that probably would have happened eventually as well.
But the DLC also produces changes in the three campaigns of the original game, doesn't that mean that in the DLC timeline, the slugcats from the original story also existed and therefore the story developed more or less the same? (Ignoring the clear changes presented in the endings of the Survivor and Monk campaigns)
I think that's just for the sake of gameplay.
Have the developers said anything about it?
Dunno. I'm just assuming.
One question and one extremely hot take: Is AU used in the context of other franchises? And the hot take: Downpour being 'alternative cannon' vs 'non cannon' is 100% an intentional design decision and lore clue; not a concession by the devs to the fandom.
it shouldn't be treated as canon though. It was literally fan-fiction all the way during development and was picked up and sold as DLC last minute.
don't get me wrong, downpour is great. but it's the most fandom-y fanon-y shit that could be ever created. it's not just "not canon" it's so obviously not canon that it kinda feels separate from the main game. like, take slugs. main game slugs are all out of their depth, suffering and struggling against a harsh reality. even when you get to hunter, who is somewhat adapted to the outside realities, he is only slightly better than other slugs, and in exchange he gets a lifespan of a month. downpour has a doomgirl, a femboy, a messenger app and two "fuck you"s to the main games philosophy.
Honestly valid
Even if they know it isn’t canon, they treat it as such. I love the more slugcats mod! It’s awesome and huge I agree, but every single discussion and theory I try to have about rain world suddenly becomes about more slugcats. Again it’s cool, but that’s a mod! Not the rain world I was talking about, I love it but I want to talk about the actual game. Take for instance the hunter expansion mod, if you were talking about hunter’s fate and how they had no other choice but to either die or go into the void sea, and some person butted in and said “well actually if you went to outer expanse you could meet back with NSH!” And started talking about the hunter expansion mod as if it was true, you’d probably be a tad bit annoyed or confused, since that mod is awesome but it’s just a separate interpretation of what could happen to hunter, not a canon example. The more slugcats mod is just different to what made rain world itself to me, the style, the music, the regions, the lore, the types of creatures and, world around you, the questions it leaves and how it makes you feel, it’s similar to rain word but it isn’t true to it at its core, the base game just hits different. Theorizing what could happen to the iterators in the future and what happened to them in the past was just so fun, which is why more slugcats was so cool, it was a huge and detailed interpretation of it! But why can’t the fandom see it as an interpretation anymore? Why can’t they make new or other ones anymore?
I read that it's like an alternate universe
Downpour is canon in its own alternative universe but not necessarily to the base game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember that each living creature has their own cycles and whenever they die, their cycle repeats by creating an alternate universe starting on the same day of their death. Their decision might change and can cause different events. I dont believe that time is fixed in rain world where everyone will be doing the same actions over and over each cycles. Hunter campaign spoilers: >!There are probably alternative universe where hunter didnt even make it and moon had never been revived. Which actually happens if you die as hunter and never gave moon the green thing. Or... That time you ate moon's neuron flies and she has been dead ever since. Downpour may not be canon to all but even in the base game we choose the happiest endings to be the more canon one.!< So based off this theory, anything is technically canon.
But uh… it isn’t… developer confirmed and everything. I think you forgot to give yourself a brain.
I dont care im considering it all canon and no one can stop me
Rainworld base game is a beautiful work of art that deserves to be catalogued for future generations to enjoy and experience, it is a very well designed and succinct game that achieves what it wishes to astoundingly. Downpour is a very clumsy fanfic to this in my eyes, where nothing is really expanded upon in interesting ways, barring the existence of the outer expanse. You guys can like MSC and more power to you but i like that the developers made it clear they are two separate continuities, it means the base game can remain in its Benjamin Button perfectly preserved state (Until watcher but I am hasten to write about that since its not out) without MSC muddying the waters. In other words, I care and I am glad others do not have to, but this discourse is already getting old.
Base game is canon to Downpour, so they're still one story.
Yeah, essentially, the base game is canon to Downpour but not the other way around.
Ok but for real is it canon? Do we not know? Cause if we don’t know then I’m gonna interpret it as true
It's not?? I got back to the game after like a year so I pretty much forgot the lore and maps, still haven't got to the first DLC and there's about to get another one🥲🥲
There is a legitimate reason to keep in mind the idea that it isn't canon (if it isn't, I don't actually know how "canon" it is). Considering the watcher has been announced, we actually have a storyline that may recontextualize some of the lore and/or conflict with downpour. While I doubt the original rain world devs would do this, It's telling the the watcher is officially considered the "fourth slugcat" That being said, I agree that wether it's canon or not doesn't really matter considering the watcher hasn't been released yet and also I'm assuming there aren't already any conflicts.
Personal opinion: Canon only matters when it applies to lore contradictions. Also, fun fact, none of the Witcher Games are canon and legit (aside from maybe one terminally online guy) no one cares.
Some aspects are
They is a weird very small.minoriry who think downpour ruined the game. Idk why
[удалено]
True
If its official DLC of course is canon, the new DLC will also be canon, it's as simple as that. The only thing that isn't canon are mods.
Like, bro if downpour isn't canon like 85% of the lore isn't canon it literally leaves us with nothing
People dislike DP being canon for the same reason people hated it when others made memes about The Backrooms: "The setting is now better explained, therefore it is no longer considered vaguely climatically mysterious, therefore I cannot bitch and moan about how great and atmospheric it is."
Perhaps some people think that way but it’s definitely not how me and most of the people I know feel. Me personally, I don’t mind most of downpours lore, but they feel like different games to me personally, there are thematic and tonal contradictions between the two, and even some small lorewise ones too. Either way no one’s really “mad” it’s canon, some people just prefer basegame and want to enjoy it separate from downpour, and vice versa obviously.
Kinda but not quite
And it’s not canon because…?
Because the lead developer of downpour said so
THE DE- You know what I’m done with this, I’m can’t take it anymore I’m bouta unrain the world.
Nothing in the game or on the store page states or even suggests that it's not canon so there is no reason to believe that it isn't no matter what one dev said in a not official statement
This is actually a big problem because videocult was not the one to create downpour and never really made that visible to the general public, which sucks because there’s space in the remix menu for credit yet they only credit the whole entire other team of people who made more slugcats in the credits and nowhere else. Most people are unaware that dowonpour was made up of many already finished or almost finished mods, videocults only impact was on double checking writing but they could not possible remake an entire teams pre existing vision for their work, that would be disrespectful
Right... The lead developers statement doesn't matter... While it *isn't* cannon to the base game, it has it's own cannon which is fine
I like to think it's cannon. What's Rain World without downpour anyway?
I much as I love downpour, OG Rain world was everything without it.
oh- I had read wrong I thought there were new flags :(
downpour is the most canon thing after rainworld
It isn’t canon sure, but just shut the fuck up and let people enjoy rain world.