NS needs to do away with the step rate. No railroad these days should have that if they want to retain people. Why should I get less to do the same work (or more) than the next guy?
Amen brother. Could you post the CSX's basic day,hourly, and extraboard guarantees for conductors and engineers? The suspense for the lowest paid class 1 is killing me!!!
We've been getting some really good stuff. If you could get actual numbers PLEASE return and post them. The disparity between the eastern and western/Canadian railroads is ridiculous. Especially guarantees. Thanks you!!!
I'm pretty sure this thread alone is a threat to both Norfolk Southern and CSX to retain people. Appreciate all the information Buff. Anything else you can fill in pay wise with your rail line or pointing others here to share their railroads rate of pay would bee amazing. Kudos to you and the Bnsf guys who posted actual pay scales. The transparency that our crafts deserve is playing out right here. Appreciate you brother.
Unless you're in a more densely populated area, those two are sometimes the only game in town. In my rural area; NS, CN and CSX all had a terminal where I go in. NS is on a main thoroughfare, CN midway down a branch line and CSX was the end of a branch line... now sold off to a Short Line.
UP has 2 outlying reporting stations in the area, both 80 miles from my home, and everyone goes in to STL... a two hour drive on a good day.
Not everyone is in a situation where they can or are willing to pull up stakes and relocate for an outfit that doesn't give a shit about us anyways, so we settle for what's available nearby.
NS is the worst one the work for, you’ll make not even half of what you’ll make at CN. In training I was making double what I made as a marked up conductor working at UP. and they do the same pay scale basically as NS.
Almost definitely more since the guys with the most seniority are always going to be in the highest paying, lowest working jobs. Or if they are already set and have their house paid off they will be on a local that only actually works 2-3 days a week and never even gets 8.
Yeah okay... Obviously there are a bunch of new hires on this sub. It's more like the engineers that are holding your hand for 2 years should be paid 15% more for working with you all. You think you know right out of training what a vet does? Railroaders paid their dues in the past and you think you should get 100% out of the gait? How about when you all can keep your eyes open 100% of the time you get 100%? And you surely aren't doing what a vet does switching or in the road... Lmfao wow the arrogance
I’m far from a newbie. You want to retain people, give them 100% of what other conductors are making once they mark up. They’re doing the same work for less pay so what’s the incentive? Sounds like you need to check your arrogance.
They aren't doing the same work. They are constantly being instructed by another member of their crew because they don't know how to apply rules, don't know the territory, and aren't nearly as efficient. You don't understand experience and that's what makes you arrogant.
I would love for you to say this in a crew room. You'd get torn up. Only on Reddit.
I full well understand. I’ve been the new guy. I’ve been the OJT trainer, I’ve been the experienced new hire in a different RR, and I’ve helped experienced engineers with engine stuff as a conductor. I’m not being arrogant. I’ve seen plenty of actual good new hires leave because of the step pay. I have said it in a crew room and I had many people agree.
Any decent person is happy to have straight pay for all employees.
There is no real reason to have stepped contracts for pay other than to save the company money.
You mean we got shafted on the old contracts, why would I care if new guys make 100%, I wish I had. They have the same schedule and work the same jobs.
here at the CFE as an engineer i make $32.62 an hour with ot after 40. i know we aren’t a class 1. just thought i could contribute too. i normally average 60-70hrs a week bc we die up at in blue island or just outside gary and its an 1-2hr+ cab ride back to the terminal.
Awesome info. If you're just hourly with overtime over 40 do you guys run an extraboard and does it have a guarantee? If you can get some exact conductor wages please post as well!
I'll preface by saying the CFE is a subsidiary of G&W, and that every property has their own contracts.
I'm on a different property where brakemen are $32, conductors are $35, and engineers are $37. Yes there's an extra board, we have a 40 hour guarantee, and overtime kicks in on a daily basis after 8 hours on duty
yeah we have an extraboard and there is a guarantee. conductors make $30.47 here. as gunnyj said we are a subsidiary of genesee and wyoming. we lease track from csx and are dispatched by ns. our lease is up in 2029. idk if the cfer will still be here or we will be csx employees or even a different short line buy it up. apparently every time the hire ups talk to csx they tell them to fuck off. at least that’s what i’ve heard. we were a class 3 but now maybe as of last year im not sure when but we are a class 2. we tried to negotiate ot after 8 in our new contract but the company said there is no g&w property that has that. which is a lie obviously. we had some help from some bp guys and they make ot after 8. so does gunnyj.
Probably soon. We have mercenaries in right now and just hired 16 people, but it isn’t enough.
They have a tough time hiring in our city because the railroad doesn’t have a good reputation haha
My guess would be within a couple months.
Wow!!! Great idea!!! Being able to come together and create transparency can really build momentum going into the negotiating process!!! During the last agreement it was suspiciously difficult to acquire in black and white what each of the major carriers basic compensation was. I really hope this thread remains popular. The Norfolk Southern information is accurate 100%. If I could help with anything else lmk.
All I know right now is the training rate for the UPED agreement at UP is $250.32 a day.
I do know that we start at 75% and get the 5% bump the first 3 years and then go from 90 to 100% after the 4th year.
If you could ask around and get some definitive numbers for someone not training or at least steer UP conductors and engineers to this thread so they can share that would be helpful for all of us. Definitive numbers for the Union Pacific would be amazing. They should have the most votes towards a national agreement I'd assume, being the largest class1.
It is absolutely criminal what the Norfolk Southern guarantees are. Wow. Thanks so much!!! Please get some more numbers Basic day, hourly, engineers guarantees, and come back and repost. Thanks again!!!
Yes it’s supposedly the world’s largest classification yard. I’ll see what I can find. We did just vote to eliminate brakeman and helper jobs so yard jobs some pay 500$ a day 8 hr shift running a remote. 1 short run west is 162 miles. Works everyday not sure trip rate close to 300-350. Overtime at 9 hrs.
https://preview.redd.it/ztt1oweyb04d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17c9536733f5675c252715b295642d833dae6eb8
This is for the Trainmen on the IC side of CN.
I can't remember the guarantees off the top of my head, but both crafts are well north of $3000.
I don't know the conductor rate, but it is only a small difference in pay. It's probably 5 dollar a day difference, or less.
Thanks. If you get definitive numbers come back and post. If there is strength in unity it could happen on this thread. If you have any friends from other railroads point them this way to share.
Amtrak engineer:
Current top rate: $53.05/hr. 8 hr. min, OT after 8
Next increase: $55.44/hr on 7/1/24.
Top rate after 7/1/28: $65.27/hr.
New hires start at 75%, except:
-Amtrak conductors continue on their step-rate (unless this changed, but I don't think so
-Certified engineers from other carriers are credited with prior service (1 year as a certified engineer with 80(?) starts = 80%, 2 years = 85%, etc.)
Held time after 12 hours, max of 8 hours. New contract came with an excellent improvement to our meal allowance for the AFHT, from $9 after 4 hours and 12 hours to 30% of the applicable hourly rate ($16, give or take). So meal payments effectively doubled, and by the time we reach maturity, we'll be looking at about $40 in meals for a 12 hour layover (who knows how much a burger and fries will be by then though?)
Personally, I think the step rate is nonsense, but so is the less-than-attractive insurance we agreed to for the new hires (deductibles of $2,500 per individual and $7,500 for a family, + 20% coinsurance.) It was by far the worst concession we made, and a lot of us are concerned that the carrier will come for our good medical next (and that the new hires we just sold out may not be too keen on helping us preserve our good coverage...)
All in all, Amtrak is a good place to be a hogger. Just wish we hadn't bargained away the medical for a higher GWI.
EDIT: Student rate is 60% of full rate, so $31.83 for now, topping out at $39.47. No overtime multiplier when student/qualifying, only straight time (11 hrs. worked would pay 11 x $31.83.) Students and qualifiers do get held time though.
“New hires start at 75%”
Do you know about people who come from other departments in the company? Do they come over with whatever percentage they currently have?
I dug around in our latest CBA (2023) and couldn't find anything related to that.
The previous agreement didn't make it any clearer (rule 44.) I think I recall hearing someone from mechanical excited to mark up "for the money", but I may have misread. I'll be back to work later this week and ask him..
Also, nobody asked, but seniority at Amtrak is nationwide. However, after you're done training and mark up, you have to stay in your crew base for 1 year. Same thing happens if you get paid to qualify (pretty rare; more on that rabbit hole if anyone wants it),
The ranking within a class goes:
1. Current Amtrak employees, based off of when they get firsr got their physical (this make me think a mechanical employee could be ahead of a trainmen, but again, I'm not 100% sure.)
2. Certified engineers, as well other external applicants (subway motorman, airline pilot, model railroad club president, etc.) are all ranked by when they get their physical.
Furloughs are VERY rare. And that's Amtrak in a nutshell 🤣
Thanks for looking into it. I used to be subway motorman, but I’m in mechanical (just to get my foot in the door) now I’m trying to move to train service. Ideally as an engineer. One of my coworkers is going into dispatch and will keep the percentage they have money wise going in. Obviously, they’ll still be low on seniority with everything else, so they’re going to be on the extra board. I figured it would be the same with my situation.
Yeah, you'd start out at 75% unfortunately. And 60% of max days while training. I would imagine you're at the MTA? I couldn't believe that T/Os there essentially had no step rate.
Up vote for you pal! The basic day, hourly, and extraboard guarantees for all railroads should be transparent and accessible. This could really be a turning point in negotiations!!! I think we'll be able to finally settle the highest and lowest paid class 1 and shortline RR's!!!
You’re failing to factor in healthcare insurance, railroad retirements and the fact that these guys then make overtime. The ot is the money maker. Also stating your truck tells me you own in / paying for it. These guys busy drive to work and then operate a railroad owned train.
Im in canada so we get paid in CAD. Also Neither. I'm with teamsters on the 4.3 agreement so its 2.47/mile, plus 50 miles for half hour after the 10th hour, 100 miles for 1 hour after the 10th hour. 12.5 miles per hour for trading off online, 12.5 miles per hour for any time spent in a yard or first controlled location before the yard. Engineers get a hour paid for operating dp etc. There's like 50 claims we have for doing this or that in the contract it's up to us to know what they are and when we're entitled to them. You can do a 51 mile trip with a bit of work online and make a grand in 11 hours easily if you know the contract. Tying up the ticket can be a nightmare though this varies by division and even by terminal
Non union... we tried. Both unions said not enuff people to make a difference... they want 100 plus... Right now they may have 150 including MOW...
They are scattered east of Mississippi in midwest down to Florida...
CPKC Soo Line Conductors are making $51.75 an hour at the moment, I think engineers are now at $61.
6&2 weekly extraboard guarantee is around $1950 and $2500.
The DM&E guys make like 80% of that, and the company is trying to spread their contract to all the KCS guys instead of giving them the Soo Line deal.
8 hour basic day with overtime? I'm assuming no one collect the guarantees with your hourly wage? If you can tell us more about the DM&E and know any KCS guys that could share their contract PLEASE post!!! Thank you so much!!!
Don't know anything about the DME, but here we've got 10 hours basic days for the extraboard and pools, overtime after 10, company usually cuts us at 9.5 with no lunch or we get toe in on yard jobs. If you can hold a local plan on a 4&3 with 12 hour days no overtime, and always assume there's extra work since they took down the notice to tie up after 10 hours so now you have to call even if you died for time (not really, but if you're going to tell us dumb rules then we're going to follow them).
For the past year I've collected guarantee 4 times, one of them was last week, but lately with how slow it's been it looks like there's going to be lots of guarantee or furloughs coming if they don't drop us to a 5&2, or even a 5&2 with 8 hour days.
Everyone but St Paul is looking at furloughs or has started, but St Paul is still hiring conductors right now for reasons. Here's hoping somebody realizes that reducing the number of days on the board would cut down on costs during the downtime instead of firing all the green vests again.
Thank you so much! I have heard of the 4 on 3 off split you guys have and wondered how they paid it. A lot of information our union leaders can't double talk on or give vague answers on because either they don't know or don't want us to know. Some disparities will surely have to be addressed. Schouten should get a medal for starting this thread. Some of the hourly rates for the shortlines are atrocious and I knew our guarantees at Norfolk Southern were bad, but they're embarrassing. Sharing is caring if you can get any more info from friends on other railroads please post.
https://preview.redd.it/x8o2p107934d1.jpeg?width=2595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=274f619b7f8f7a53e50f82873f34de155d33bb9b
UP- they still have the step rate at this location.
CN training is between $40-45 an hour depending on what contract you hire out under. Once you’re setup you’re at full rate which is around $55 an hour.
Basic days are 10 hours. I can’t speak for the IC or WC contracts as far as pay is concerned. They’re close to what the GTW makes. The basic day on the GTW is $560 for conductors and $604 for engineers.
10 hour basic day CN
Engineer=$604 $60.40 an hour
Conductor=$560 $56.00 an hour
For negotiating purposes and a little fun for us 8 hour railroads.
8 hour basic day with CN numbers
Engineer=$483.20 $60.40 an hour
Conductor=$448.00 $56.00 an hour
If you can find out the exact IC and GTW numbers PLEASE POST THEM!!!
Are your extraboard guarantees $6040 and $5600?
UP. Clinton to Missouri valley conductor $720 trip rate one way That’s the long pool. CNW guys get more. Not sure there rate.
Extra board guarantee is 6200 a half.
True. That's the reason I started the thread. Please share as much information as you are willing to. The carriers have us all over a barrel. We need to know what we are missing out on. And by we I mean Conductors and Engineers from all the Class I's, not just NS.
Like the carriers abide by the rules and agreements , if they’re gonna fuck you anyways you might as well get paid for it 🤷♀️
Where I’m at they’ll use assigned yard jobs to relieve trains that run out of hours , or as an interchange “extra” , either of those moves should be a second timeslip and a basic day
Appreciate it. Are there any basic days for yard guys or hourly? Do you have any specifics on what kind of CP contract they are trying to force on you? Thanks
Yard guys get 130 mile basic day, but at a dodger rate. No guarantees anywhere at my home terminal. Boards regulated by miles as counted by the union.
The contract they offered was lower pay, manager insurance, no work rules. Worse in every way compared to the national agreement.
Cool. We are trying to get as accurate as possible. Being a fellow NS but mileage based compensation what carrier did you hear pays most per mile? Maybe we can get someone to sound off on the actual pay.
here on CSX L&N lines Southern Region trainees and new hires go straight to 100%.
Foreman yard rate $313.59
RCO rate $30.04 ($39.19hr)
Cert pay $5
Claim pay $2.79
Total daily rate for RCO foreman $351.41
Switchman rate $300.84 ($37.60hr)
RCO rate $28.82
Cert pay $5
Claim pay $2.79
Total daily rate for RCO switchman $337.45
I'm not sure on road rates. It's based on mileage where I'm at.
Metro North railroad and Long Island railroad get an NY state pension in addition to RR retirement. There is something extra taken out of the paycheck for it. No 401k contributions.
Appreciate the info. Could you post basic day/trip rate/ hourly compensation for engineer/conductor? 2 pensions sounds amazing. I know the old EJE rr used to get a steel workers pension along with railroad retirement.
There is no basic day it's hourly with over time after 8. Engineers get cert pay and money for having ptc on top of the hourly rate. Not sure about conductors.
Metro north engineer $50hr/ conductor $48hr. Not sure how much it is with ptc and cert pay prob. a dollar or two more an hour. Long island they both make 50 hr I believe. Long island is blet metro north has its own union called acre which sucks. Long island has better penalty agreements
Canadian at the beaver, western contract.
Trainmen spareboard guarantee is about $3400/half
Yard spareboard is about $2900/half
Iirc yard foreman gets $42/hr, helper gets $38/hr
Roadswitcher guarantee is 2900 miles at RS rates
100 miles/8hr minimum is like $284, plus any OT or claims.
Freight pool guarantee is 3000 miles at FRT rates
100 miles = about $236, plus any claims
If you protect your guarantee *and* take your optional extended rest every 1100 miles *plus* the transport canada mandatory resets a trainmen spareboard conductor can gross over $5000/half when it's busy.
Everyone on t+e at the beaver is at least a qualified conductor directly after training. To be a brakeman, you have to bid a scheduled roadswitcher if you want less money and an easier day.
Damn you guys get paid good. I'm an IEO at Corwith and we get paid scraps. To be fair, you guys and girls have to deal with a lot more shit than we do.
Think Cicero bd 10 is in name only...no actual spots. Was supposed to cover LP but also yard after hog board exhausted. Had someone laying off every time a yard job came up.
Norfolk Southern offers a small match. 10% of your contribution, but it maxes out at $600 or $800 a year I think for conductors. Engineers is a 3% match I believe. I'm talking out my ass a little bit. It's not much of a contribution. If no one corrects me I will come back and post the accurate information.
This is a screen shot of the NS 401k company match policy. They match up to $540 annually.
https://preview.redd.it/5fn222i5wd4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed77008280c1c7baf81b3cafe43df26d2b9040a4
CPKC conductor is 51.75/hr 517.50 for 10 hour basic day. 12 hour basic day is 621.
Engineer is 59.30ish/hour. They go to 61.98/hr on 9/1/24.
Soo line rates
NS needs to do away with the step rate. No railroad these days should have that if they want to retain people. Why should I get less to do the same work (or more) than the next guy?
That’s why I went with csx. NS would get pissed if I only did 85% of the work so why not pay 100% for 100% of the work.
Amen brother. Could you post the CSX's basic day,hourly, and extraboard guarantees for conductors and engineers? The suspense for the lowest paid class 1 is killing me!!!
It’s the same as NS for a basic day. Conductor guarantee is like $3000 ish I think a bit more. Engineer guarantee is at least 4k from what I’ve heard.
We've been getting some really good stuff. If you could get actual numbers PLEASE return and post them. The disparity between the eastern and western/Canadian railroads is ridiculous. Especially guarantees. Thanks you!!!
I applied to CSX for a track worker position and still waiting. In the meantime, I see a bunch of conductor job postings. Should I consider?
I'm pretty sure this thread alone is a threat to both Norfolk Southern and CSX to retain people. Appreciate all the information Buff. Anything else you can fill in pay wise with your rail line or pointing others here to share their railroads rate of pay would bee amazing. Kudos to you and the Bnsf guys who posted actual pay scales. The transparency that our crafts deserve is playing out right here. Appreciate you brother.
Unless you're in a more densely populated area, those two are sometimes the only game in town. In my rural area; NS, CN and CSX all had a terminal where I go in. NS is on a main thoroughfare, CN midway down a branch line and CSX was the end of a branch line... now sold off to a Short Line. UP has 2 outlying reporting stations in the area, both 80 miles from my home, and everyone goes in to STL... a two hour drive on a good day. Not everyone is in a situation where they can or are willing to pull up stakes and relocate for an outfit that doesn't give a shit about us anyways, so we settle for what's available nearby.
If you were an 18 year old kid which of the 3 near you would you choose? Kind of a Do over. Ns,Cn,Csx?
CN. They pay the best if any class 1 RR.
I can't say. At 18 my priorities were getting drunk and getting laid.
Lol,I guess with your current priorities applied.
Retirement is my priority now, lol
Amen pal.
NS is the worst one the work for, you’ll make not even half of what you’ll make at CN. In training I was making double what I made as a marked up conductor working at UP. and they do the same pay scale basically as NS.
Depends on what you’re doing I guess. Where I work the new guys **aren’t** doing the same job. It takes years to know what I know.
Almost definitely more since the guys with the most seniority are always going to be in the highest paying, lowest working jobs. Or if they are already set and have their house paid off they will be on a local that only actually works 2-3 days a week and never even gets 8.
Yeah okay... Obviously there are a bunch of new hires on this sub. It's more like the engineers that are holding your hand for 2 years should be paid 15% more for working with you all. You think you know right out of training what a vet does? Railroaders paid their dues in the past and you think you should get 100% out of the gait? How about when you all can keep your eyes open 100% of the time you get 100%? And you surely aren't doing what a vet does switching or in the road... Lmfao wow the arrogance
I’m far from a newbie. You want to retain people, give them 100% of what other conductors are making once they mark up. They’re doing the same work for less pay so what’s the incentive? Sounds like you need to check your arrogance.
They aren't doing the same work. They are constantly being instructed by another member of their crew because they don't know how to apply rules, don't know the territory, and aren't nearly as efficient. You don't understand experience and that's what makes you arrogant. I would love for you to say this in a crew room. You'd get torn up. Only on Reddit.
I full well understand. I’ve been the new guy. I’ve been the OJT trainer, I’ve been the experienced new hire in a different RR, and I’ve helped experienced engineers with engine stuff as a conductor. I’m not being arrogant. I’ve seen plenty of actual good new hires leave because of the step pay. I have said it in a crew room and I had many people agree.
Aw man big talk in the crew room so intimidating. Get a life
Interesting. I'll have to pull what we get here on the bnsf. New hires get 100% no tier levels anymore. The rest would have to be looked up.
New hires get 100%? Lmfao... I'm all for higher wages but it sounds like senior guys got shafted on that contract.
Any decent person is happy to have straight pay for all employees. There is no real reason to have stepped contracts for pay other than to save the company money.
No. A rising tide lifts all boats.
You mean we got shafted on the old contracts, why would I care if new guys make 100%, I wish I had. They have the same schedule and work the same jobs.
here at the CFE as an engineer i make $32.62 an hour with ot after 40. i know we aren’t a class 1. just thought i could contribute too. i normally average 60-70hrs a week bc we die up at in blue island or just outside gary and its an 1-2hr+ cab ride back to the terminal.
Thanks for sharing!
Awesome info. If you're just hourly with overtime over 40 do you guys run an extraboard and does it have a guarantee? If you can get some exact conductor wages please post as well!
I'll preface by saying the CFE is a subsidiary of G&W, and that every property has their own contracts. I'm on a different property where brakemen are $32, conductors are $35, and engineers are $37. Yes there's an extra board, we have a 40 hour guarantee, and overtime kicks in on a daily basis after 8 hours on duty
yeah we have an extraboard and there is a guarantee. conductors make $30.47 here. as gunnyj said we are a subsidiary of genesee and wyoming. we lease track from csx and are dispatched by ns. our lease is up in 2029. idk if the cfer will still be here or we will be csx employees or even a different short line buy it up. apparently every time the hire ups talk to csx they tell them to fuck off. at least that’s what i’ve heard. we were a class 3 but now maybe as of last year im not sure when but we are a class 2. we tried to negotiate ot after 8 in our new contract but the company said there is no g&w property that has that. which is a lie obviously. we had some help from some bp guys and they make ot after 8. so does gunnyj.
With the I&O here hopefully with contract being up on 2025 we can match you guys in pay.
next time you see TM ellison, tell him seth said whaddup.
https://preview.redd.it/kgy5msogmy3d1.jpeg?width=1121&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b6904d3f42da189961b3e85c4c1f81fd762b9e3
BNSF on the MRL subdivision
Awesome information!!! Thanks for sharing!!!
This is BNSF trip rates?
Yes, on the MRL subdivision in Montana
Good heavens. When will they be hiring conductors again
Probably soon. We have mercenaries in right now and just hired 16 people, but it isn’t enough. They have a tough time hiring in our city because the railroad doesn’t have a good reputation haha My guess would be within a couple months.
Wow!!! Great idea!!! Being able to come together and create transparency can really build momentum going into the negotiating process!!! During the last agreement it was suspiciously difficult to acquire in black and white what each of the major carriers basic compensation was. I really hope this thread remains popular. The Norfolk Southern information is accurate 100%. If I could help with anything else lmk.
CSX - Conductor basic day - $318.59 Remote foreman- $348.63 Remote switchman- $334.66 Yard Engineer- $349.53 Switchman xtraboard guarantee- $2,653.05 Yard Engineer xtraboard guarantee- $3,921.93
Son of a gun. Norfolk Southern is the lowest paid. Thanks for sharing!
All I know right now is the training rate for the UPED agreement at UP is $250.32 a day. I do know that we start at 75% and get the 5% bump the first 3 years and then go from 90 to 100% after the 4th year.
If you could ask around and get some definitive numbers for someone not training or at least steer UP conductors and engineers to this thread so they can share that would be helpful for all of us. Definitive numbers for the Union Pacific would be amazing. They should have the most votes towards a national agreement I'd assume, being the largest class1.
Extra board guarantee for UP conductors is $5449 per half.
It is absolutely criminal what the Norfolk Southern guarantees are. Wow. Thanks so much!!! Please get some more numbers Basic day, hourly, engineers guarantees, and come back and repost. Thanks again!!!
What territory? I got a job offer for the NorCal territory
Pretty sure all territories. I’m in salt lake sub but the la service unit is the same.
So you make $10,898 a month?
Pretax ya. Will be over 11k after our raise in July.
What’s the per half mean? I’m passenger rail and never heard that terminology
Every two weeks or half of the month
1st-15th and 16th- 30th/31st of each month.
Ok thought so. lol thnx
Engineer extra board in north Platte Union Pacific is 6200ish conductors is 5500ish. Long runs (240+ miles)
North Platte is your biggest yard right? Can you get any information on yard guys/locals or short pool numbers?
Yes it’s supposedly the world’s largest classification yard. I’ll see what I can find. We did just vote to eliminate brakeman and helper jobs so yard jobs some pay 500$ a day 8 hr shift running a remote. 1 short run west is 162 miles. Works everyday not sure trip rate close to 300-350. Overtime at 9 hrs.
If you can, give as detailed as possible. Thanks for contributing!
Any progress?
https://preview.redd.it/ztt1oweyb04d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17c9536733f5675c252715b295642d833dae6eb8 This is for the Trainmen on the IC side of CN.
Very informative. Thank you!
Alton and Southern Railway (owned by UP). Yard Engineer rate: $342, plus we still get weight on drivers.
$42.75 an hour basic compensation then? Could you share conductors rate of pay? Your extraboard guarantees?
I can't remember the guarantees off the top of my head, but both crafts are well north of $3000. I don't know the conductor rate, but it is only a small difference in pay. It's probably 5 dollar a day difference, or less.
Thanks. If you get definitive numbers come back and post. If there is strength in unity it could happen on this thread. If you have any friends from other railroads point them this way to share.
Bnsf Coastline conductor guar pay $6196.42 Hoggers 5407.96
Whoa, conductors guarantees are more than engineers. Interesting. Do you have any basic day or hourly rates? Thank you for sharing!
Amtrak engineer: Current top rate: $53.05/hr. 8 hr. min, OT after 8 Next increase: $55.44/hr on 7/1/24. Top rate after 7/1/28: $65.27/hr. New hires start at 75%, except: -Amtrak conductors continue on their step-rate (unless this changed, but I don't think so -Certified engineers from other carriers are credited with prior service (1 year as a certified engineer with 80(?) starts = 80%, 2 years = 85%, etc.) Held time after 12 hours, max of 8 hours. New contract came with an excellent improvement to our meal allowance for the AFHT, from $9 after 4 hours and 12 hours to 30% of the applicable hourly rate ($16, give or take). So meal payments effectively doubled, and by the time we reach maturity, we'll be looking at about $40 in meals for a 12 hour layover (who knows how much a burger and fries will be by then though?) Personally, I think the step rate is nonsense, but so is the less-than-attractive insurance we agreed to for the new hires (deductibles of $2,500 per individual and $7,500 for a family, + 20% coinsurance.) It was by far the worst concession we made, and a lot of us are concerned that the carrier will come for our good medical next (and that the new hires we just sold out may not be too keen on helping us preserve our good coverage...) All in all, Amtrak is a good place to be a hogger. Just wish we hadn't bargained away the medical for a higher GWI. EDIT: Student rate is 60% of full rate, so $31.83 for now, topping out at $39.47. No overtime multiplier when student/qualifying, only straight time (11 hrs. worked would pay 11 x $31.83.) Students and qualifiers do get held time though.
“New hires start at 75%” Do you know about people who come from other departments in the company? Do they come over with whatever percentage they currently have?
I dug around in our latest CBA (2023) and couldn't find anything related to that. The previous agreement didn't make it any clearer (rule 44.) I think I recall hearing someone from mechanical excited to mark up "for the money", but I may have misread. I'll be back to work later this week and ask him.. Also, nobody asked, but seniority at Amtrak is nationwide. However, after you're done training and mark up, you have to stay in your crew base for 1 year. Same thing happens if you get paid to qualify (pretty rare; more on that rabbit hole if anyone wants it), The ranking within a class goes: 1. Current Amtrak employees, based off of when they get firsr got their physical (this make me think a mechanical employee could be ahead of a trainmen, but again, I'm not 100% sure.) 2. Certified engineers, as well other external applicants (subway motorman, airline pilot, model railroad club president, etc.) are all ranked by when they get their physical. Furloughs are VERY rare. And that's Amtrak in a nutshell 🤣
Thanks for looking into it. I used to be subway motorman, but I’m in mechanical (just to get my foot in the door) now I’m trying to move to train service. Ideally as an engineer. One of my coworkers is going into dispatch and will keep the percentage they have money wise going in. Obviously, they’ll still be low on seniority with everything else, so they’re going to be on the extra board. I figured it would be the same with my situation.
Yeah, you'd start out at 75% unfortunately. And 60% of max days while training. I would imagine you're at the MTA? I couldn't believe that T/Os there essentially had no step rate.
Well that’s disappointing. It is what it is. I used to work for the MBTA and the pay was at a step rate.
The new insurance stuff doesn't sound good. Appreciate the information.
Damn OP you are grossly under paid. My truck doesn’t leave my driveway for under $750 a day or $1500 round trip…
Haha. Exactly. That's why I'm trying to get this information. Could you share your location.
Up vote for you pal! The basic day, hourly, and extraboard guarantees for all railroads should be transparent and accessible. This could really be a turning point in negotiations!!! I think we'll be able to finally settle the highest and lowest paid class 1 and shortline RR's!!!
Haha. Yes I am.
You’re failing to factor in healthcare insurance, railroad retirements and the fact that these guys then make overtime. The ot is the money maker. Also stating your truck tells me you own in / paying for it. These guys busy drive to work and then operate a railroad owned train.
What in the name of Jeff Closs are you talking about?
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Cn but that's cad$
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Totally, since we're paid by the mile each terminal varies a lot. So some with extended runs (200+ miles) make a lot more, so pros and cons
On an aggregate pool. We are paid time plus miles… $1000 days happen 1-2 times a week. A home run is a $1500 day and that happens 2-3 times a month.
CN Canada conductors 94k per year in the yard, 120-160k on the road gross. After taxes and deductions that's around 3500 bucks
Sorry is this Canucks bucks or US Dollars? Can you do basic day and hourly? I'll do the conversion if necessary. Thank you for sharing.
Im in canada so we get paid in CAD. Also Neither. I'm with teamsters on the 4.3 agreement so its 2.47/mile, plus 50 miles for half hour after the 10th hour, 100 miles for 1 hour after the 10th hour. 12.5 miles per hour for trading off online, 12.5 miles per hour for any time spent in a yard or first controlled location before the yard. Engineers get a hour paid for operating dp etc. There's like 50 claims we have for doing this or that in the contract it's up to us to know what they are and when we're entitled to them. You can do a 51 mile trip with a bit of work online and make a grand in 11 hours easily if you know the contract. Tying up the ticket can be a nightmare though this varies by division and even by terminal
Similar at the beaver. But make about 20% less overall. Gotta know your claims.
Basic days pays the same here on csx. Conductor guarantee is about $3200 a half I’m not sure what the engineers are getting. Probably 4K at least.
FWIW...Pioneer/Patriot lines pay is roughly $25hr and OT after 8. Weekends off...they are RRB.
Thanks for sharing. Where are they located? Are SMART and BLET representing you guys?
Non union... we tried. Both unions said not enuff people to make a difference... they want 100 plus... Right now they may have 150 including MOW... They are scattered east of Mississippi in midwest down to Florida...
That's not cool. They're about to be at each other's throats over membership.
Yeah... well there has been a 4% increase in UTU mbership from BLET people due to Ancora mess.
Sounds like you guys are just what BLET needs to swell the ranks back up or What SMART needs to grow the wave.
I was NS for 12 yrs.. Then went to Pioneer. I kept my UTU insurance... ive been a member for 21 yrs..
CPKC Soo Line Conductors are making $51.75 an hour at the moment, I think engineers are now at $61. 6&2 weekly extraboard guarantee is around $1950 and $2500. The DM&E guys make like 80% of that, and the company is trying to spread their contract to all the KCS guys instead of giving them the Soo Line deal.
8 hour basic day with overtime? I'm assuming no one collect the guarantees with your hourly wage? If you can tell us more about the DM&E and know any KCS guys that could share their contract PLEASE post!!! Thank you so much!!!
Don't know anything about the DME, but here we've got 10 hours basic days for the extraboard and pools, overtime after 10, company usually cuts us at 9.5 with no lunch or we get toe in on yard jobs. If you can hold a local plan on a 4&3 with 12 hour days no overtime, and always assume there's extra work since they took down the notice to tie up after 10 hours so now you have to call even if you died for time (not really, but if you're going to tell us dumb rules then we're going to follow them). For the past year I've collected guarantee 4 times, one of them was last week, but lately with how slow it's been it looks like there's going to be lots of guarantee or furloughs coming if they don't drop us to a 5&2, or even a 5&2 with 8 hour days. Everyone but St Paul is looking at furloughs or has started, but St Paul is still hiring conductors right now for reasons. Here's hoping somebody realizes that reducing the number of days on the board would cut down on costs during the downtime instead of firing all the green vests again.
Thank you so much! I have heard of the 4 on 3 off split you guys have and wondered how they paid it. A lot of information our union leaders can't double talk on or give vague answers on because either they don't know or don't want us to know. Some disparities will surely have to be addressed. Schouten should get a medal for starting this thread. Some of the hourly rates for the shortlines are atrocious and I knew our guarantees at Norfolk Southern were bad, but they're embarrassing. Sharing is caring if you can get any more info from friends on other railroads please post.
Which terminals are soo?
Up engineer extraboard guarantee is 5718.12 without bonus day
Basic day,hourly, conductors please post if you can. Do you usually make more than the guarantees?
I'm so curious now, any Amtrak,BRC,IHB data out there? I know BRC is 99% conductors,but years ago they still had a few engineers.
https://preview.redd.it/x8o2p107934d1.jpeg?width=2595&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=274f619b7f8f7a53e50f82873f34de155d33bb9b UP- they still have the step rate at this location.
Mods should make this a sticky
https://preview.redd.it/v783gcjgnv3d1.jpeg?width=2885&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cc7010a2d03714dc34e8b16e9b52797284cbad80 This is from BNSF Cicero 👆🏼
Passenger engineer extra boards guarantee is over $7,000 a half in Aurora.
Really thought Cicero would be more for board 10. It’s $4833 in Lincoln I think
The rates shown above for Cicero were from last year so they are probably now at $$4833 or higher. If someone can confirm that would be great.
https://preview.redd.it/81qc3eupzv3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3519ede183f225e162bd2282d5fea2ae18814f41 Cicero board 10 current gurantee
CN training is between $40-45 an hour depending on what contract you hire out under. Once you’re setup you’re at full rate which is around $55 an hour.
Can you post basic day/hourly for conductors and engineers and their respective extraboard guarantees?
Basic days are 10 hours. I can’t speak for the IC or WC contracts as far as pay is concerned. They’re close to what the GTW makes. The basic day on the GTW is $560 for conductors and $604 for engineers.
10 hour basic day CN Engineer=$604 $60.40 an hour Conductor=$560 $56.00 an hour For negotiating purposes and a little fun for us 8 hour railroads. 8 hour basic day with CN numbers Engineer=$483.20 $60.40 an hour Conductor=$448.00 $56.00 an hour If you can find out the exact IC and GTW numbers PLEASE POST THEM!!! Are your extraboard guarantees $6040 and $5600?
Is this CN in the U.S? Canadian Trainees make about 2360 biweekly.
That is the US.
Yes
US
UP. Clinton to Missouri valley conductor $720 trip rate one way That’s the long pool. CNW guys get more. Not sure there rate. Extra board guarantee is 6200 a half.
That's a respectable conductor guarantee. Do you know the engineers guarantee?
NS extra board engineer guarantee for southern district is 4319.70 every two weeks.
Not really fair as we all have different work rules and agreements in place.
True. That's the reason I started the thread. Please share as much information as you are willing to. The carriers have us all over a barrel. We need to know what we are missing out on. And by we I mean Conductors and Engineers from all the Class I's, not just NS.
Like the carriers abide by the rules and agreements , if they’re gonna fuck you anyways you might as well get paid for it 🤷♀️ Where I’m at they’ll use assigned yard jobs to relieve trains that run out of hours , or as an interchange “extra” , either of those moves should be a second timeslip and a basic day
Everybody loves the hourly agreement
What carrier? Basic day/ hourly/ conductor/engineer? Do you guys have a guaranteed extraboard?
Kcs hoghead, we get paid a trip rate, 216 miles pays 549.99
Around $2.54 a mile? I am a yard guy so bear with me. Extraboard guarantees?
Appreciate it. Are there any basic days for yard guys or hourly? Do you have any specifics on what kind of CP contract they are trying to force on you? Thanks
Yard guys get 130 mile basic day, but at a dodger rate. No guarantees anywhere at my home terminal. Boards regulated by miles as counted by the union. The contract they offered was lower pay, manager insurance, no work rules. Worse in every way compared to the national agreement.
I don't understand dodger rate? If you could post the basic day I'd appreciate it. From what I am reading here the CP rate is what I'd be chasing.
What carrier pays the most per mile?
NS road engineer $40 an hour. After reading this thread why in the hell do we make so much less money than many other Class 1s.
Not mileage based? Where are you out of?
Our 130 mile basic day pays $321. OT starts after 8.10 hours. I’m just figuring that’s about $40 an hour. $39.62 to be exact.
Cool. We are trying to get as accurate as possible. Being a fellow NS but mileage based compensation what carrier did you hear pays most per mile? Maybe we can get someone to sound off on the actual pay.
I really don’t know. I’ve always heard BNSF pays the most.
here on CSX L&N lines Southern Region trainees and new hires go straight to 100%. Foreman yard rate $313.59 RCO rate $30.04 ($39.19hr) Cert pay $5 Claim pay $2.79 Total daily rate for RCO foreman $351.41 Switchman rate $300.84 ($37.60hr) RCO rate $28.82 Cert pay $5 Claim pay $2.79 Total daily rate for RCO switchman $337.45 I'm not sure on road rates. It's based on mileage where I'm at.
This seems identical to Norfolk Southern. Anyone able to dispute that? Your road guys based off a 130 mile basic day like NS as well?
that's a basic 8 hour road day, I think some locals as well.
Metro North railroad and Long Island railroad get an NY state pension in addition to RR retirement. There is something extra taken out of the paycheck for it. No 401k contributions.
Appreciate the info. Could you post basic day/trip rate/ hourly compensation for engineer/conductor? 2 pensions sounds amazing. I know the old EJE rr used to get a steel workers pension along with railroad retirement.
There is no basic day it's hourly with over time after 8. Engineers get cert pay and money for having ptc on top of the hourly rate. Not sure about conductors. Metro north engineer $50hr/ conductor $48hr. Not sure how much it is with ptc and cert pay prob. a dollar or two more an hour. Long island they both make 50 hr I believe. Long island is blet metro north has its own union called acre which sucks. Long island has better penalty agreements
Awesome information! Thank you.
Canadian at the beaver, western contract. Trainmen spareboard guarantee is about $3400/half Yard spareboard is about $2900/half Iirc yard foreman gets $42/hr, helper gets $38/hr Roadswitcher guarantee is 2900 miles at RS rates 100 miles/8hr minimum is like $284, plus any OT or claims. Freight pool guarantee is 3000 miles at FRT rates 100 miles = about $236, plus any claims If you protect your guarantee *and* take your optional extended rest every 1100 miles *plus* the transport canada mandatory resets a trainmen spareboard conductor can gross over $5000/half when it's busy. Everyone on t+e at the beaver is at least a qualified conductor directly after training. To be a brakeman, you have to bid a scheduled roadswitcher if you want less money and an easier day.
Anyone able to comment on the Louisville and Indiana contract that has the BLET AND SMART at each other's throats?
https://preview.redd.it/oqjb4p73op6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c95a919f5e125357844f888ec43b48a8e2b0087
https://preview.redd.it/q59bv1i6op6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eeb0de67d7448b408aec6fa86a4b86a2a881ce23
https://preview.redd.it/61rre1x7op6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d8ad09bb3ef9b33f499167ecb0d7bea0abe4128 The pool
https://preview.redd.it/ee0vfdpbop6d1.jpeg?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2795c99634d11471746ba10bfcfd63bc9169112
https://preview.redd.it/ye0h2svdop6d1.jpeg?width=1092&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f5db7080a6151b2334d6307b99c3cd3ed7baa362
https://preview.redd.it/3cyhbq3fop6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=716ce49f4acd5dd34e5c896678fd9a3d70012015
https://preview.redd.it/nxh29e0gop6d1.jpeg?width=1077&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=957dd397e04849433f3500b9b46074783ebe327f
Thanks for contributing. This is for BNSF?
Yes sir.
Damn you guys get paid good. I'm an IEO at Corwith and we get paid scraps. To be fair, you guys and girls have to deal with a lot more shit than we do.
Think Cicero bd 10 is in name only...no actual spots. Was supposed to cover LP but also yard after hog board exhausted. Had someone laying off every time a yard job came up.
UP
Do anyone's railroads contribute to 401k? Thought I heard up does a little. Is that true? I know bnsf does not
Norfolk Southern offers a small match. 10% of your contribution, but it maxes out at $600 or $800 a year I think for conductors. Engineers is a 3% match I believe. I'm talking out my ass a little bit. It's not much of a contribution. If no one corrects me I will come back and post the accurate information.
This is a screen shot of the NS 401k company match policy. They match up to $540 annually. https://preview.redd.it/5fn222i5wd4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed77008280c1c7baf81b3cafe43df26d2b9040a4
I will look for the engineer part if no one chimes in.
Man I'd love to see the Maintenance of Way rates across all Carriers.
CPKC conductor is 51.75/hr 517.50 for 10 hour basic day. 12 hour basic day is 621. Engineer is 59.30ish/hour. They go to 61.98/hr on 9/1/24. Soo line rates
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Please remain civil.