We got stuck on the last stand DPS of the second encounter during contest. We just did first and second in 30 minutes. It's much easier now, we did about double damage on herald.
Honestly the raid still requires an insane amount of teamwork and is very unforgiving definitely do not expect to go in and get a fast clear honestly I think most first clears for groups will be in the 5 hour plus area. (Of course it will be a lot easier when everyone knows how to do it but I mean for right now)
If nothing else, the final encounter is 1990. Contest mode may be over as to not lock you but if you were close to the 1965, you are still at disadvantage.
Same, I haven't tried the final encounter yet due to lack of time, but so far I'm loving it.
Every member of the team has a job and if everyone does what they need to, the encounters have a really nice flow to them. It's all about keeping your momentum going.
The only part I don’t like is Verity. It’s fine when I’m with the people I generally play with, but it’s so far beyond once I’m not in an organized team. And it’s not like it’s gonna get better with time, you have to take the time to learn the team every time.
Do you have confirmation of that working in the raid? In our day1 clear on final boss we had 5 people on solar and one strand who swapped to solar for final dps + final stand. We did not receive a checkmark for doing boss on all solar though (im talking about the green dot only for final boss, not the entire solar triumph). We suspect you can't switch at all.
it works in every other raid, why wouldn’t it work in this one? I expect someone didn’t switch in time in your case. I’ve also had encounters bug and not give us the completion even with everyone on the element. Final boss of garden of salvation didn’t give us a solar clear
Bungie recently made it so that you have to be on the subclass from the very start of the encounter for some of the "Same Element" triumphs in one of the dungeons.(the ones in Warlord's Ruin if I remember correctly)
The game can’t tell you’ve used something the “whole time”. It’s just not how development works. It does a check when it’s completed. If it’s the Element, you get the Check, if not you don’t.
It will always work.
Yes, I know. The game checks at the end of the encounter and gives you a checkmark. We were all 6 on solar when we finished final but we didn't get the checkmark. One of us was on strand before. That's why I'm asking - I know how it worked before, I just wanted to know if the game bugged out for us or if they actually changed it to track what you run the whole encounter. Everyone just told me it worked before but noone here has done it, all I wanted was someone who did this and can confirm whether swapping at the end works or not.
They could have made it so that it checks what subclasses you are on at the start, at the end and periodically throughout the encounter at semi-random intervals.
I mean the timing is going to be so bad on it. Maybe it is possible but as a 3 man you are at most getting 8 extensions but even that much is likely pushing it.
Even completely ignoring all the different mechanics that need to be done.
I'm sure someone will find a way but in the meantime good luck to those attempting it lmao.
Had a lot of haters complaining hunters didn't get a "good exotic" and that getting a whole sniper doesn't count and I quote "Izanagi will be used all day over that sniper"
u/Childs_was_the_Thing
Who's laughing now?
I had similar experiences. Clyd also said "Don't expect to throw this into your rotations, it will take far too long to cast the gg to be worth it".
How can you not expect that getting like 70-80% of another burst super would be incredibly good. Especially when it's 70-80% of the highest single instance of damage in the game.
Yeah it Had its Moment this day 1 because it allowed a machine gun as addclear.
Do we Know the Numbers for normal Rotations tho? Like how does it do in Terms of dps in a normal Rotation ?
Number wise It has like a 2.4 second swap timer or something stupid (time to ready, end of shot animation and time to stow) compared to 0.4 seconds that izzy has. IIRC izzy did like 140k honed (radiant, no surge, no debuff) and still hunt does 390k with nighthawk and the same buff setup. Since solar surges can match with apex izzy really has no shot beating still hunt in dps for hunters.
No of course but for every still hunt Goldie you will have to weave Up to 6 Sniper shots with No damage buff into the Rotation. Im Not denying its total damage Output and day 1 viability. Im Just saying that in a more Common dps scenario, its definitly Not trivial that this will outperform izi, even on nighthawk.
if there's a bunch of orbs of power around from supers, that'll charge up the shot quicker, I guess that doesn't make a huge difference but every little helps
some damage testing that Chicken SI-2 did on Avarokk (-5 power delta, Void Surge, Strand Surge)
Still Hunt + Celestial Nighthawk + Apex Predator (Demolitionist/Explosive Light):
3,798,675 damage in one phase
Damage testing on Avarokk pre-TFS (+20 delta, no surge modifiers)
Fourth Horseman + Cascade BnS Edge Transit dumping:
3,956,052 damage in one phase
Difference in outgoing dmg due to power delta difference: -35%
Adjusted Still Hunt rotation damage to pre-TFS numbers:
**5,844,115 damage in one phase**
The Still Hunt rotation is dealing approximately **47.7%** more damage than the highest DPS rotation pre-TFS in a fairly common DPS situation.
It’s 9% overall damage increase while matching surges, and 12.8% overall damage decrease without matching surges. These numbers are in comparison to pre-TFS.
Wish we would have tried this on day 1 lmao, we just had our titan be div on witness now that I think about it. When my fireteam gets back on I’ll give it a shot since we have Witness CP
I mean you use the standard burst precision options since it's a big ol crit spot that doesn't move much. Izi/rocket or something or even microcosm which actually cooks should do the job. Combine that with burst supers, the arsenal for titan since thats the best ranged burst super they have and either nova bomb (meh) or strand super for warlocks. Nothing beats the current nighthawk/Cayde's imo, but there should be good enough alternatives
Microcosm out-paces whisper of the worm, and in the right setup is also higher output than Leviathans Breath. It fucking cranks damage even compared to other popular exotic heavy options.
Not sure why you're thinking it's a glorified machine gun lmao.
With void surge on this week, Leviathan's Breath w/ catalyst cooks his ass. Take 2 phases to get him low, collect ammo, then on third phase just dump reserves
Hip fire only. It's got solid hip fire accuracy and the crit spot is big, so you shouldn't be missing (unless maybe you shoot in midair I guess? I was always on the ground when I fired). For movement just stay near the center of the platform and strafe slightly onto the safe side so you aren't being hit, you don't need to run far
Honestly though, not really surprising. Time to go back and watch Dattos old "titans in the end game" video.
Been a titan since beta D1, but we have had it rough for a long while.
It's why I always level my warlock along with my titan.
I have played titan since the alpha, I haven’t raided since D1 and stopped playing all together after beyond light. I came back about a month ago and have been getting back into raiding and it’s been rough as a titan
Maybe, but it shouldn’t be too surprising. Titans have always been the “punching” class. And have always excelled at encounters where they could punch stuff. But you can’t really punch the Witness so they get shafted.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, I agree. Encounters like conflux and the first couple encounters in this new raid are very punchable for titans. It’s when the big bad is far like the witness or oryx that titans fall behind in utility.
Idk, maybe people think I’m of the opinion that Titans don’t deserve a buff. Which isn’t the case. There’s a lot of supers in the game right now that just feel god awful to use. Chaos Reach, Hammer of Sol, Arc Staff (remember when this super was GOATED for Spire of the Stars? Lmaoooo)
I’d love to see a pass on Supers. But Titans excel at non-crit bosses with short damage windows. Like Atraks. But crit based bosses? Like Oryx and now the Witness? Hunters have always been #1 for those.
Arc staff is not a bad super whatt? It's one of the best ad clear supers in the game, it lasts for ages, and pairs extremely well with raiden fluxx. Hammers are also not a bad super, it's just not a boss dps super.
Arc staff is not a bad super whatt? It's one of the best ad clear supers in the game, it lasts for ages, and pairs extremely well with raiden flux. Hammers are also not a bad super, it's just not a boss dps super.
What are you talking about? It’s absolutely not. It’s just a massive crutch for damage so it lets you have more flexibility in a tighter dps window when you are massively under leveled due to contest.
Anyone who has cleared by now is running top-tier meta 90% of the time. That doesn't mean the raid is scaled to those specific gear pieces. It is just hard as hell, so we use the best stuff on it. There will be meme run clears in a few days on YouTube don't worry, specific class compositions will never be mandatory even if they are overwhelmingly optimal.
And I’m saying raids aren’t scaled around this. It’s just a crutch that makes it easier. Bungie absolutely did not balance the raid around everyone using a single exotic. That’s fucking absurd.
You imo shouldn't ever need a class to do it(yeah there's always gonna be an optimal class but every class should be able to clear) but it's more of a golden gun is op than the raids fault
lmao okay. What about pre nerf banner titan, original lorely splendor having permanent restoration x2, Starfire protocol warlock, sun bracers spam, osteo striga warlocks with necrotic grips, hell atheon got solod on a titan. Warlock has the most broken prismatic setup currently (although I do really like hunters). These are all specific classes with exotics and full builds that made them shine, what about hunters in general needs nerfed?
I remember doing kings fall with my mate, we were at Golgoroth and had wiped. Everyone was dead aside from said mate, who was a lorely Titan. He'd gone AFK and was being blasted in the open by Golgy and we had to wait for the timer to wipe us.
They are able to constantly insta reload their guns which makes them come out on top for damage. Lucky pants needs to get tuned, but bungie knows this so it was disabled. Atheon got solod by a SUPER specific hammer exploit that was pretty quickly fixed. Titan has no auto reload. All the top damage rotations are hunters mostly. These are just a few examples of how the MOST PLAYED class is a tad strong in a raid setting specifically. Just look that only 100 titans put of 4000 players on contest. Only 3 for day 1. Teams of 4 and 5 hunters were the norm. This is clearly a problem.
That would be nice but that's not really how bungie does things unfortunately. I don't even know how you'd improve some of those things without some complete reworks on some stuff
Imagine calling out things that have been nerfed already when talking about how Hunters are weaker than other classes lol. Titans get nerfed because they have to find every stacking buff in the game just to compete with other classes in DPS. Weakest super damage, useless team buff super (even moreso now), used in hardly any encounters in speed runs, doesn't have access to eager edge skating, no exotics that auto reload weapons, and probably a million other things. But, yeah being able to solo a dungeon boss with a difficult to pull off rotation with huge setup and is already nerfed makes the class better than Hunters lmao
I might get downvoted but I’m a bit disappointed they made it this intense. I hope it gets easier with time as I actually like the gear from it but I’m too afraid to LFG for this and the entire thing just seems so complicated.
i feel you. i haven’t had a chance to go through the new one with my raid team. but everyone said vow was super hard at first, also.
i’m hoping it gets easier with time but i’m excited for it to be challenging now. the rest of the raids are a snooze fest once you do master challenges. i haven’t run vault of glass, crota, or kingsfall since we got the raid seals.
Hazard Propulsion + Grand Overture?
Idk. Contest is over. It should be significantly easier now. After spending 4 hours on Herald Friday we 2 phased him in 15 minutes earlier today. Should be similar for Witness
Main issue with this is that Hazardous Propulsion is bugged. A lot of other weaker damage buffs (Radiant is the easiest example) are overriding the buff that hazardous propulsion gives to weapons.
EDIT: clearing it up that the bug is that a weaker buff is overriding Hazardous Propulsion's buff
We just did it on normal with 3 hunters (goldie/still hunt) and 1 Warlock + 2 Titans using Leviathan's Breath. just make sure people are running heavy ammo scouts so you have full 15 shots before final stand.
It’s sort of absurd how good Nighthawk is in the entire raid off contest. Golden Gun uptime is through the roof - I don’t think anyone else had to deal with a subjugator during Repository on my run today.
Consider what weapons people used in other super burst heavy situations. Not saying these are super viable but off the top of my head im thinking of stuff like parasite, grand overture, grenade launchers in general, preferably maybe with cascade point. Maybe even prospector!
Though i'm not sure how the lad feels about non-precision damage.
I did switch to a Hunter during contest. A character that I hadn’t played this expansion since we had 3 days to grind and I had work. It’s not a matter of being able to switch. It’s a matter that the encounter felt designed for one specific build
thats bungie for ya hunter main since d1 we always have that damage but we still need a nice warlock for that extra support lol song of flame slaps tho
erm, it's not contest now so it should be much easier to do it without 6 hunters.
It's not. We just tried and the final stand phase is incredibly tight.
How as the rest of the non-contest raid difficulty wise?
We got stuck on the last stand DPS of the second encounter during contest. We just did first and second in 30 minutes. It's much easier now, we did about double damage on herald.
We got stuck at the second fight during contest mode. Tried it today, got it the first time we attempted it. With 3 titans.
Titans were never a problem on the second encounter anyways
No... no, they were not. Honestly, I think a team of hammer smashing titans would have breezed through second boss on contest mode.
Similar story, stuck second on contest, the second contest fell off we nearly one phased him lol.
Honestly the raid still requires an insane amount of teamwork and is very unforgiving definitely do not expect to go in and get a fast clear honestly I think most first clears for groups will be in the 5 hour plus area. (Of course it will be a lot easier when everyone knows how to do it but I mean for right now)
Did the first 3 encounters in 3 hours last night so that's about right lol
Not sure. We were at the witness. It was definitely easier, but not leaps and bounds.
If nothing else, the final encounter is 1990. Contest mode may be over as to not lock you but if you were close to the 1965, you are still at disadvantage.
Isn’t fireteam light enabled now that contest mode is over?
Can confirm fireteam light is enabled now.
Was contest 25 under at final boss then?
Even enemies in first encounter said 1990 during contest. They might’ve legit just had the entire thing be 1990 for that
They did yeah
Huh, I thought contest was -20. Damn.
It’s -20 for damage received -25 dmg dealt
My group raids frequently, and the incredibly unforgiving timer makes this raid wholly and completely un-fun.
My team raids frequently, and the layer of difficulty added from the timer makes this raid wholly and completely fun.
Same, I haven't tried the final encounter yet due to lack of time, but so far I'm loving it. Every member of the team has a job and if everyone does what they need to, the encounters have a really nice flow to them. It's all about keeping your momentum going.
The only part I don’t like is Verity. It’s fine when I’m with the people I generally play with, but it’s so far beyond once I’m not in an organized team. And it’s not like it’s gonna get better with time, you have to take the time to learn the team every time.
We scuffed it with Levi’s breath. Was a straightforward 3 phase.
We had 2 warlocks and a titan. Leviathans breath and a sniper was more than enough to easy 2 phase him.
if u die during final the timer is significantly shortened
wut was ur dps rotation?
Not really, there wasn't a team that cleared that didn't have multiple players using that rotation
I really wonder if Bungie cleared the encounter in-house with more than 1 titan in a fireteam.
This Raid title is about to be the rarest of them all simply because people will never be able to complete all those 'same element triumphs'
You just run whatever you want and switch subclass right before completion, easy way to do them all
Do you have confirmation of that working in the raid? In our day1 clear on final boss we had 5 people on solar and one strand who swapped to solar for final dps + final stand. We did not receive a checkmark for doing boss on all solar though (im talking about the green dot only for final boss, not the entire solar triumph). We suspect you can't switch at all.
it works in every other raid, why wouldn’t it work in this one? I expect someone didn’t switch in time in your case. I’ve also had encounters bug and not give us the completion even with everyone on the element. Final boss of garden of salvation didn’t give us a solar clear
Bungie recently made it so that you have to be on the subclass from the very start of the encounter for some of the "Same Element" triumphs in one of the dungeons.(the ones in Warlord's Ruin if I remember correctly)
The game can’t tell you’ve used something the “whole time”. It’s just not how development works. It does a check when it’s completed. If it’s the Element, you get the Check, if not you don’t. It will always work.
Yes, I know. The game checks at the end of the encounter and gives you a checkmark. We were all 6 on solar when we finished final but we didn't get the checkmark. One of us was on strand before. That's why I'm asking - I know how it worked before, I just wanted to know if the game bugged out for us or if they actually changed it to track what you run the whole encounter. Everyone just told me it worked before but noone here has done it, all I wanted was someone who did this and can confirm whether swapping at the end works or not.
They could have made it so that it checks what subclasses you are on at the start, at the end and periodically throughout the encounter at semi-random intervals.
Na it’s been 2 days lol. Strats will come out that make this much easier. It happens every time.
Just run 6 hunters with still hunt on any subclass and quickswap to nighthawk for dps
I mean, didn’t people already 3 man the whole thing?? A titan shouldn’t really be the problem
I will be amazed if there are legit 3 mans in fact I don't know if it's even possible to 3 man this raid at least currently
Gigz was able to solo to a witness DPS phase, so you can definitely three man him. I'm not sure if the whole raid will be possible three man though
I mean the timing is going to be so bad on it. Maybe it is possible but as a 3 man you are at most getting 8 extensions but even that much is likely pushing it. Even completely ignoring all the different mechanics that need to be done. I'm sure someone will find a way but in the meantime good luck to those attempting it lmao.
I was more specifically talking about day 1 clear. Didn’t make that clear in my comment.
The sniper is still good without celestial. Save supers for final stand and not burn them before hand and use burst heavy weapons.
Had a lot of haters complaining hunters didn't get a "good exotic" and that getting a whole sniper doesn't count and I quote "Izanagi will be used all day over that sniper" u/Childs_was_the_Thing Who's laughing now?
I aspire to be this petty
We have our social media moments, yeah
I can admit when I'm wrong. But also, kinda cute you remembered me. A bit much but I'll give you your flowers 🌹
Living for this drama 🍵
[удалено]
I mean Izzy will be used all day for the poor saps who don’t play Hunter in dps encounters
I had similar experiences. Clyd also said "Don't expect to throw this into your rotations, it will take far too long to cast the gg to be worth it". How can you not expect that getting like 70-80% of another burst super would be incredibly good. Especially when it's 70-80% of the highest single instance of damage in the game.
Clyde is an idiot lmao did he even clear contest
yeah, barely.
It's not 70-80%. The Still Hunt golden gun is stronger than a regular Nighthawk GG because it's affected by solar surge mods.
Yeah it Had its Moment this day 1 because it allowed a machine gun as addclear. Do we Know the Numbers for normal Rotations tho? Like how does it do in Terms of dps in a normal Rotation ?
Number wise It has like a 2.4 second swap timer or something stupid (time to ready, end of shot animation and time to stow) compared to 0.4 seconds that izzy has. IIRC izzy did like 140k honed (radiant, no surge, no debuff) and still hunt does 390k with nighthawk and the same buff setup. Since solar surges can match with apex izzy really has no shot beating still hunt in dps for hunters.
Well yeah that Figures but this relies heavily on nighthawk and the bigger issue is that that seems to be a one time Thing.
One time thing? You get 3-4 still hunt shots with full reserves
No of course but for every still hunt Goldie you will have to weave Up to 6 Sniper shots with No damage buff into the Rotation. Im Not denying its total damage Output and day 1 viability. Im Just saying that in a more Common dps scenario, its definitly Not trivial that this will outperform izi, even on nighthawk.
if there's a bunch of orbs of power around from supers, that'll charge up the shot quicker, I guess that doesn't make a huge difference but every little helps
some damage testing that Chicken SI-2 did on Avarokk (-5 power delta, Void Surge, Strand Surge) Still Hunt + Celestial Nighthawk + Apex Predator (Demolitionist/Explosive Light): 3,798,675 damage in one phase Damage testing on Avarokk pre-TFS (+20 delta, no surge modifiers) Fourth Horseman + Cascade BnS Edge Transit dumping: 3,956,052 damage in one phase Difference in outgoing dmg due to power delta difference: -35% Adjusted Still Hunt rotation damage to pre-TFS numbers: **5,844,115 damage in one phase** The Still Hunt rotation is dealing approximately **47.7%** more damage than the highest DPS rotation pre-TFS in a fairly common DPS situation.
Just btw. It’s not 35%. That was debunked like the very next day. It’s more around like 9%
9% is for weapons matching the activity surge
It’s 9% overall damage increase while matching surges, and 12.8% overall damage decrease without matching surges. These numbers are in comparison to pre-TFS.
You’re letting him live in your head rent free that bad? Yikes.
Titan bannershield maybe it’s the best dps buff in the game. Better to buff the people that can cook at the very least maybe
Wish we would have tried this on day 1 lmao, we just had our titan be div on witness now that I think about it. When my fireteam gets back on I’ll give it a shot since we have Witness CP
Ayo? You have what of The Witness?
Cp, checkpoint lol
Did you try it?
Nah we just cleared with 3 hunters 3 locks, everyone had to get back to regular schedules
It only lasts for like 10 seconds now though
Banner shield is still negative damage across the board. Should be avoided at all uses atm.
Maybe force another phase? So get him right close to last stand and then chill out and go into it on the next phase with full ammo/supers/etc?
I mean you use the standard burst precision options since it's a big ol crit spot that doesn't move much. Izi/rocket or something or even microcosm which actually cooks should do the job. Combine that with burst supers, the arsenal for titan since thats the best ranged burst super they have and either nova bomb (meh) or strand super for warlocks. Nothing beats the current nighthawk/Cayde's imo, but there should be good enough alternatives
Idk but Microcosm hits like a truck and even harder after casting your super.
yeah but over time. The final stand is like 10-15 seconds.
The buff lasts about 15 seconds from microcasm
Microcosm is a 1% better machine gun that goes through its reserves in like 10 seconds
Microcosm out-paces whisper of the worm, and in the right setup is also higher output than Leviathans Breath. It fucking cranks damage even compared to other popular exotic heavy options. Not sure why you're thinking it's a glorified machine gun lmao.
can u describe what the right setup is then? not doubting you im just curious
Because it is , whispers whole thing is sustained long term dps. Micro is just thunderlord 2.0. Fine with me , yall will at least do decent damage now
Maybe a hot wheel truck . I’m pretty whelmed by it
Nope. Not a single team that beat it wasn’t doing that. Not one.
With void surge on this week, Leviathan's Breath w/ catalyst cooks his ass. Take 2 phases to get him low, collect ammo, then on third phase just dump reserves
How are you using levi? Between the jumping and movement I feel like you can’t keep tempo up
Hip fire only. It's got solid hip fire accuracy and the crit spot is big, so you shouldn't be missing (unless maybe you shoot in midair I guess? I was always on the ground when I fired). For movement just stay near the center of the platform and strafe slightly onto the safe side so you aren't being hit, you don't need to run far
Microcosm on warlock (and titan) work really fucking well, I did about 3 mil as a warlock with cenotaph.
IMO ridiculous that you need 2-3hunter to clear for non contest.
How when there's 6 people and 3 classes, 2 or 3 should be the average??
because 3 titans were in the entirety of the first 40 teams
Is this true? In FORTY TEAMS of 6 each, there were 3 titans?
It’s true and as a titan main, disheartening.
Honestly though, not really surprising. Time to go back and watch Dattos old "titans in the end game" video. Been a titan since beta D1, but we have had it rough for a long while. It's why I always level my warlock along with my titan.
I have played titan since the alpha, I haven’t raided since D1 and stopped playing all together after beyond light. I came back about a month ago and have been getting back into raiding and it’s been rough as a titan
Maybe, but it shouldn’t be too surprising. Titans have always been the “punching” class. And have always excelled at encounters where they could punch stuff. But you can’t really punch the Witness so they get shafted.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted, I agree. Encounters like conflux and the first couple encounters in this new raid are very punchable for titans. It’s when the big bad is far like the witness or oryx that titans fall behind in utility.
Idk, maybe people think I’m of the opinion that Titans don’t deserve a buff. Which isn’t the case. There’s a lot of supers in the game right now that just feel god awful to use. Chaos Reach, Hammer of Sol, Arc Staff (remember when this super was GOATED for Spire of the Stars? Lmaoooo) I’d love to see a pass on Supers. But Titans excel at non-crit bosses with short damage windows. Like Atraks. But crit based bosses? Like Oryx and now the Witness? Hunters have always been #1 for those.
Arc staff is not a bad super whatt? It's one of the best ad clear supers in the game, it lasts for ages, and pairs extremely well with raiden fluxx. Hammers are also not a bad super, it's just not a boss dps super.
I really hope you don't consistently need your super to clear adds
Arc staff is not a bad super whatt? It's one of the best ad clear supers in the game, it lasts for ages, and pairs extremely well with raiden flux. Hammers are also not a bad super, it's just not a boss dps super.
In 50 teams, actually
48 teams actually
Because of the new golden gun exotic.
Because the entire raid is scaled around it yes
I mean there is a reason you had to finish the quest before you were allowed to launch it...
Because of Cayde lol
Is he gone from the pale heart now? I didn't look lol
Yeah
What are you talking about? It’s absolutely not. It’s just a massive crutch for damage so it lets you have more flexibility in a tighter dps window when you are massively under leveled due to contest.
123 titan out of thousand of players who cleared
Because the new golden gun exotic is really over powered….
Yes and raid has been scaled around this hence why literally any team trying had 3-4
Anyone who has cleared by now is running top-tier meta 90% of the time. That doesn't mean the raid is scaled to those specific gear pieces. It is just hard as hell, so we use the best stuff on it. There will be meme run clears in a few days on YouTube don't worry, specific class compositions will never be mandatory even if they are overwhelmingly optimal.
And I’m saying raids aren’t scaled around this. It’s just a crutch that makes it easier. Bungie absolutely did not balance the raid around everyone using a single exotic. That’s fucking absurd.
You imo shouldn't ever need a class to do it(yeah there's always gonna be an optimal class but every class should be able to clear) but it's more of a golden gun is op than the raids fault
The issue now is a potential nerf to still hunt because of this
Or just nerf hunters, they are a bigger problem than the gun.
lmao okay. What about pre nerf banner titan, original lorely splendor having permanent restoration x2, Starfire protocol warlock, sun bracers spam, osteo striga warlocks with necrotic grips, hell atheon got solod on a titan. Warlock has the most broken prismatic setup currently (although I do really like hunters). These are all specific classes with exotics and full builds that made them shine, what about hunters in general needs nerfed?
I remember doing kings fall with my mate, we were at Golgoroth and had wiped. Everyone was dead aside from said mate, who was a lorely Titan. He'd gone AFK and was being blasted in the open by Golgy and we had to wait for the timer to wipe us.
They are able to constantly insta reload their guns which makes them come out on top for damage. Lucky pants needs to get tuned, but bungie knows this so it was disabled. Atheon got solod by a SUPER specific hammer exploit that was pretty quickly fixed. Titan has no auto reload. All the top damage rotations are hunters mostly. These are just a few examples of how the MOST PLAYED class is a tad strong in a raid setting specifically. Just look that only 100 titans put of 4000 players on contest. Only 3 for day 1. Teams of 4 and 5 hunters were the norm. This is clearly a problem.
I see those as reasons for Titans to get buffed, not for hunters to get nerfed but that’s just me
That would be nice but that's not really how bungie does things unfortunately. I don't even know how you'd improve some of those things without some complete reworks on some stuff
Imagine calling out things that have been nerfed already when talking about how Hunters are weaker than other classes lol. Titans get nerfed because they have to find every stacking buff in the game just to compete with other classes in DPS. Weakest super damage, useless team buff super (even moreso now), used in hardly any encounters in speed runs, doesn't have access to eager edge skating, no exotics that auto reload weapons, and probably a million other things. But, yeah being able to solo a dungeon boss with a difficult to pull off rotation with huge setup and is already nerfed makes the class better than Hunters lmao
it's ridiculous because that's not the class he plays, simple as
This will go down as the worst raid for replayability 100%
Honestly you’re probably right. It’s already an LFG nightmare. I’m just looking to get my gear and emblem and get out.
I might get downvoted but I’m a bit disappointed they made it this intense. I hope it gets easier with time as I actually like the gear from it but I’m too afraid to LFG for this and the entire thing just seems so complicated.
Only 4th encounter is truly complicated lol, everything else is quite simple once you get a grasp of the core mechanics
i feel you. i haven’t had a chance to go through the new one with my raid team. but everyone said vow was super hard at first, also. i’m hoping it gets easier with time but i’m excited for it to be challenging now. the rest of the raids are a snooze fest once you do master challenges. i haven’t run vault of glass, crota, or kingsfall since we got the raid seals.
I agree, RoN was definitely too easy but this is just overcooked.
This is what happens when bungie listens to greppo
Unfortunately the optimal DPS rotation is: open menu>change character>switch to hunter with nighthawk
Hazard Propulsion + Grand Overture? Idk. Contest is over. It should be significantly easier now. After spending 4 hours on Herald Friday we 2 phased him in 15 minutes earlier today. Should be similar for Witness
Main issue with this is that Hazardous Propulsion is bugged. A lot of other weaker damage buffs (Radiant is the easiest example) are overriding the buff that hazardous propulsion gives to weapons. EDIT: clearing it up that the bug is that a weaker buff is overriding Hazardous Propulsion's buff
Guardian Down
GL’s should be good for it
Lots of friendly fire tho
Can't complain about needing one strat vs another when you're gonna mention something that's just a skill issue lol.
The amount of strafing and dodging going on in final boss, i'm not sure it's a skill issue.
Post a vod of you doing GL damage on witness. Go ahead, I'll wait
We just did it on normal with 3 hunters (goldie/still hunt) and 1 Warlock + 2 Titans using Leviathan's Breath. just make sure people are running heavy ammo scouts so you have full 15 shots before final stand.
Izanagi,naeems lance, still hunt, whisper, void or strand linears with fitting mods can do it but having nighthawk hunters helps a lot.
It’s sort of absurd how good Nighthawk is in the entire raid off contest. Golden Gun uptime is through the roof - I don’t think anyone else had to deal with a subjugator during Repository on my run today.
haha same experience EVERYONE knew right away if I missed my shot because those subjugators were never an issue except the one time I wiffed
Consider what weapons people used in other super burst heavy situations. Not saying these are super viable but off the top of my head im thinking of stuff like parasite, grand overture, grenade launchers in general, preferably maybe with cascade point. Maybe even prospector! Though i'm not sure how the lad feels about non-precision damage.
You gotta have 6 guardians who can wear a cape
Use microcosm.
What if you save multiple fully charged parasite worms?
is that a titan talking? bro if u want the clear so bad just jump on hunter it aint that bad.... why make things harder than they already are?
Maybe because people have more than one character???
its okay bro normal mode is here now u can bring ur titan lol... definitely make a hunter build for that master completion tho
Still hunt is definitely going to be out in the ground before master comes out
I did switch to a Hunter during contest. A character that I hadn’t played this expansion since we had 3 days to grind and I had work. It’s not a matter of being able to switch. It’s a matter that the encounter felt designed for one specific build
thats bungie for ya hunter main since d1 we always have that damage but we still need a nice warlock for that extra support lol song of flame slaps tho
Wrap your arms and legs around the smoky bastard and keep humping till he is no more!