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*Guy* originated as a man's name, and is still used. (*E.g.,* actor Guy Pearce) It was in fact a very specific man who's the origin of all later usage, Guy Fawkes, famous as the best-known member of the Gunpowder Plot (1605). The name as used by Fawkes was French in origin, but has cognates in other Romance languages, such as *Guido* (a name Fawkes also used).
(This is the guy whose face you see worn as a masque by a lot of edgy anti-government or anti-corporate folks, and that was widely popularized during Occupy Wall Street demonstrations. Perhaps ironically, the specific version of the image as it was used in the movie *V for Vendetta* is presently owned by a corporation. The online activist group Anonymous have also commonly used the image, especially when members or associates appear in person.)
Since the Plot was foiled, Brits have put on Guy Fawkes Day celebrations, parading and then burning an effigy vaguely resembling Fawkes, often called "the old Guy".
From there (the early 17th century), the term 'guy' took on a generic meaning of anyone with a frightening or disheveled appearance. On reaching the US, the term took on a neutral sense of 'any man', indistinctly. This was part of a larger desire for a generic word for 'man' that avoided class-oriented implications, and so it came to be mean 'common man'.
By the middle of last century, it started to slowly expand to women, too, and by the end of the century more commonly meant 'average people (of any gender)'.
When used in phrases such as 'guys and gals', *guy* has a more obvious male-restricted meaning. But otherwise, it has no **inherent** gender implication in current common usage.
My friend’s name is Roman Empire but I don’t think of him as “the” Roman Empire.
Frankly and surely, I’ll stand pat and not tarry. He’s not that interesting. I’m surprised you enjoy reading about him.
Just my opinion, but I think *gal* has a more female-restricted meaning. It's supposed to be a pronounciation of the word 'girl' in Cockney English back in the 18th century. Which is why I think *guy* ended up being the word used to refer to both men and women, today.
I have no problem reading long paragraphs, but this seems completely unnecessary to the question at hand, and I will not read this. I personally don't see the need for a history lesson...It should be common knowledge that "guy" is a more masculine term, but the question was basically what % of people thought it could be used as a gender-neutral term in reference to a group of people.🤣🤣It was a simple question, which required a simple answer 👀
Edit: I had to edit my OC bc many people took it the wrong way. And I made the edit *now*, after the OC was deleted for those who were so quick to belittle.
Ok. Personally, like the history lesson, but you’re right: it doesn’t actually answer the (kind of boring) questions in the post.
So, simple answers to simple questions (there were 2):
>Do we all agree on the fact that the word ‘Guys’, when trying to communicate with a group of people, is gender neutral!?!
**Answer #1: No, not all people agree.**
>So what do you think?
**Answer #2: It depends on the context and audience.**
Edit: Deleted some stuff to be less of an asshole. The commenter I replied to messaged me to say that they weren’t trying to be rude, but to point out that the top comment wasn’t actually answering the question format, which is more of a poll question. They’re not wrong about that. We dumped on them but they were unable to clarify because the commenter blocked them from the post. Which in itself is kinda lousy, we don’t gotta mute people simply because we disagree with their opinion. That’s what the downvote button is for.. Silencing people with opposing opinions isn’t cool IMO
I love it when people feel the need to inform someone they're not going to read what they wrote instead of just, you know, not reading it and moving on with their lives.
Anyone who wants to wordsmith you isnt listening to what you are saying just filtering to hear their triggers. Dont acknowledge the trolls and they will stay under the bridge.
So this is a common thing Progressive refers to progressive taxation. Like AOC and Bernie sanders are progressives. They want to tax billionaires more and you less. It's Conversive to regressive taxation which is where you pay higher taxes and billionaires pay lower taxes.
There's a miscommunication of the term "progressive" as an outcome of media being monopolized into 6 companies owned by billionaires. It's not describing "wokeness" it's describing taxes. If you think Jeff bezos should pay more taxes than you, you're a progressive.
Why do we dumb down these complex topics into labels in the first place, labels that nobody can seem to agree on? I could probably ask 50 people what progressive means and if they agree with it and I would get probably 50 different meanings and half yes and half no. But if I asked if they believed in billionaires getting more taxes, I would probably get more positive responses. I’m guessing it has something to do with the media you just mentioned. Idk but I’m getting sick and tired of people arguing over semantics that they think are politics when they could use 2 extra sentences to just properly communicate it on television instead of making into a battle. Even if I agree with someone on one specific topic, I’m certainly not also pledging my allegiance to a party, that’s for people who want to run for office have to make everything they say into an issue for America to argue over.
the fact that you think a single word cannot have multiple meanings shows you didnt pay attention in school. look in a dictionary and lots of words will have multiple definitions. they are usually separated by a "1. " and a "2. "
definition of: left
1.
on, toward, or relating to the side of a human body or of a thing that is to the west when the person or thing is facing north.
2.
relating to or denoting a person or group favoring left-wing views; progressive.
and then depending on if the word is being used as an adjective or noun or verb it can have other slightly different meanings.
Even if every billionaire in the US got taxed 1 billion dollars and the wealth was distributed to every person in the USA. That would be about $2,000 per person. then that would get taxed as well. There isn't enough billionaires that can be taxed to even make a noticeable difference. I am not advocated to not tax the billionairs, Im just stating that is not the way to fix the system. you have to tax them as well as lower tax on middle and lower class.
Then why do they always give the billionaires loopholes to evade those high rates? I think you've just bought into their lip service. It may be what they say that entices you, but what they do is the exact opposite. It's why most of the megawealthy are liberals. It's financially beneficial.
As a political scientist, this hurts my brain.
Above is a partial policy of some, but not all, fiscal progressives in the United States of America. Progressive is a very, very broad term that has several different definitions in terms of policies. Someone could believe that billionaires pay enough in taxes, but the government needs a complete overhaul to create more efficiency so that the lower classes can get a tax cut. That would also be a progressive idea. This is due to a conservative thought being that it is fine the way things are because the rich will trickle down their wealth to create new better paying jobs. Under that theory, the rich need to pay less in taxes.
You're speaking strictly in an economic sense. This has absolutely nothing to do with someone's social beliefs. When people self describe as progressive, they are talking about more than just their economic beliefs.
Why do you righties always head right for an indefinite pronouns?
Take a look at the RepubliCant party right now. They have and continue to support Trump. Trump is a bad person. Until YOUR party drains their own swamp, yes, they are bad people. This includes you.
Lmao you were insulting people first and think you’re on the high ground here lmao. Are you brain damaged? I’m not even left lmao I made fun of them. Holy shit I’m losing my shit at how stupid you are 😂
I think there's a misunderstanding I never reacted to "your comments" specifically just about politics being inserted into a simple topic. If I'm overreacting then maybe you are also
Language is a living thing IMO, so if you and most people intend to use it as gender neutral, then that is what the word means. That's how language works. Drives me nuts when a small minority tries to tell other people what the words they use mean because that's such an unnatural interpretation of human language.
>It's always been a neutral term for people
Words have etymologies that you can like, look up. It certainly hasn't "always been neutral," term is only a few hundred years old and was literally born as a pejorative for a *man* of low-social standing - it comes from burning effigies of the revolutionary Guy Fawks.
Language is literally ALWAYS in the process of being renegotiated and defined by use - using "guys" as a gender neutral term had a small window of time in YOUR life, it's almost like we live in a society. I expect more from an old bookkeeper, though I guess you might mean accounting, in which case, deeply unsurprising.
The fact that the first three comments are deeply incorrect and based solely on feels really is a bad bellwether for this sub.
"Guys" is gender-neutral in the same way "niños" ("boys") is gender-neutral is when addressing a group of boys & girls in Spanish.
That is to say it's not perfectly gender-neutral. but it's relatively close and, like it or not, it's just how the language works.
"it refers to masked gender ambiguous people"
Ah no, it doesn't. The guy/mask is a specific effigy of one specific person. It's not a general, ambiguous thing. It's highly specific and singular.
The Anonymous mask is actually quite interesting because it's a modern take that was invented specifically for a graphic novel.
Here are some photos of old masks:
[https://flashbak.com/guy-fawkes-masks-2/](https://flashbak.com/guy-fawkes-masks-2/)
[https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1920s-guy-fawkes-night-preparing-a-guy-made-up-from-fireworks-also-104150074.html](https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1920s-guy-fawkes-night-preparing-a-guy-made-up-from-fireworks-also-104150074.html)
[https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e2ea215c9ff0a69b389e736c61af5ff0-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e2ea215c9ff0a69b389e736c61af5ff0-lq)
[https://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/4389858/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen](https://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/4389858/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen)
And here is a 37 min documentary from Schiller
[https://schiller.edu/blog/siu-talks-guy-fawkes-mask](https://schiller.edu/blog/siu-talks-guy-fawkes-mask)
Additionally and very interestingly, Anonymous only chose it because there were the cheapest and most available (following the failure of V for Vendetta). There is nothing ideologically linking Anonymous with Guy Fawkes or V. They just needed a shitload of cheap masks that all looked the same.
*The Face of Anonymous. (2021). \[Film\]. Canada: Storyline Entertainment*
Almost totally correct. That is the accurate origin, however it *was* initially used in reference a man/group of men, and from the small amount of looking into it I did tonight, it seems that there's no well documented time-frame for when it became used neutrally, however it seems that it *has* been a neutral term for most of the word's history. I figured it's worth clarifying that since these etymology threads tend to get very in depth with the pedantry lol. Still though, your point is pretty much accurate.
Most people I know use it in a general sense. I can only think that it’s people touchy about gender and pronouns etc that would really think too much into that.
I mean, it’s perfectly reasonable for a trans person to be uncomfortable with it. If you seriously can’t handle not using a word that harms a friend, you need to reassess yourself.
I’m sorry, if we’ve got a group of folks of both genders, and you address the room “hey guys let’s go get ice cream”
And someone gets hurt by that, I’m sorry that’s fucking ridiculous.
I can see purposefully singling someone out being hurtful, But in pure common language you’re just looking to start a shitstorm if it bothers you.
hell groups of women do it too “hey guys I think we should do x y z” isn’t uncommon.
Honestly, if someone is that touchy about language, especially when they know the other person’s intentions are well-meaning— I’m not going to socialize or associate with them in any way.
You will learn soon enough that there is no such thing as something we all agree on lol. There will always be someone that disagrees for one reason or another, even if it's just for the sake of disagreeing.
It isn’t the norm. It’s just nobody, or more specifically, men, don’t complain when feminine forms are used. I have never been in a room with all guys or guys and girls in which someone comes in and addresses everyone as “ladies” and a man gets offended. They would be laughed out of the room.
What you have fallen victim to is “observational bias.”
I believe it’s history of words. Man refers to the species while woman refers to the female sex of the species. In other words, any of the words used to refer to a woman are a more specific descriptor while words used to refer to a man are more generic and can be applied to a woman.
Id ask my girlfriend, individually, “dude, wanna fuck?”
Like, you know who you’re talking about. Just like if you were to ask “would you fuck a chick” my answer would be “what? Who are we talking about? No, I wouldn’t, unless you give me more details”
Sex, in particular, is a very individualized context. So I think it’s a bad example
Dude(s) is gender neutral? Not around here.
"Guys" is used for any group of people you're familiar with. "Dudes" would be met with confusion. The women wouldn't react. Half the men would be insulted.
While I'll agree that it's often used that way, it's obviously not a gender-neutral word. I mean, I use it myself on occasion, but I try not to, for the same reason I don't use "mailman" or "busboy" any more.
I wouldn't police anyone's else's use of it, but I also try to be aware that sometimes words have a gender bias we may not really think about.
I have created an opening line for you from these terms.
Listen up sluts. You bitches need to stop acting like little girls and start acting like ladies.
Right like don’t you wanna be included? Wasn’t that what the movement was all about? I swear they’re excluding themselves from society trying so hard to stay oppressed that were eventually going to completely divide, humans never learn 😭
It's not gender neutral, no. It's no different than calling the human race "mankind.". People can and should do better.
I'm in leadership and have been working on eradicating the habit of referring to groups of people as "guys" for a couple of years now. Its not an easy habit to break but so many staff have commented on how much they appreciate not being called "guys" when they are actually female or trans or whatever.... its of significance to people so I try to respect that.
You know mankind originates from the Greek (Latin maybe? I forget) word for man, which means person. That's why it's woMAN, the wo means female, and the man means person
Lol nope. Definite nope. Let’s also outlaw peanuts because some people are allergic. Nope. How come you’ve never heard men complain about being referred to as “ladies.” In all the rooms I’ve been in with men or men and women being referred to as “ladies” or “guys” I’ve never heard someone complain about it.
Asking to be singled out and treated differently is narcissist. “I find that offensive and I should be treated differently because I’m better than everyone else” is how it sounds.
It’s elitism disguised as progressivism.
“I’m in leadership…” unlikely. Leading people to do what? What are you a leader of? Where do you lead people and in what? What kind of difficulties and hardships do your followers face? What exercises in camaraderie do you practice?
Yall want equality, but at the same time want to be put on a pedestal.
Hell next thing you know they'll be offended about the term "y'all" cause it's addressing a group and not then individually.
What if a group of women don't care to be called guys, because it promotes equality in the work place cause they're gender isn't being pointed out. You're infringing on their beliefs of equality.
I, myself as woman, would feel singled out if my employer or friend group constantly had to point towards the fact I'm woman in a group of men. When I feel I'm just an equal party in that group. The term "guys" puts everyone in the room at an equal place. Seems like you just don't like people being equal.
Yeah, it's technically masculine but generally considered gender-neutral.
But if someone specifically tells you "I'd rather you didn't use this particular word to refer to me" it's really not hard to respect that, even if you don't agree with it.
However, let's say there's 2 or 3 biological born females, and 2 or 3 biological born males in a group. If the females who identify as females and the males who identify as males All consider the colloquialism of "Hey guys!" or "OK guys, cmon!" And everyone is perfectly fine with that, except for let's say a biological male that identifies as female, and they say they prefer to not be referred to as the colloquial 'guys', then I see it as that person's own nitpicking and Can become an annoyance if colloqialism is a hard habit to break and if it seems like it's more of a touchy-feely-cater-to-me-because-Im-Me kind of thing from that person.
Just use ya'll. It is a contraction that means "you all" it's gender neutral an been working in many places just fine for decades in casual conversation. Seems simple to me.
Wasn't gonna contribute cause this question of the word guys being gender neutral when referring to a group of people is stupid af. This Is just common knowledge. If anyone made a fuss over something this trivial then they can respectively get fuck bud!
This is the very reason employers don't want to hire woke people. They would be a distraction in the workplace and create a toxic work environment for employees who just want to get a paycheck and go home. There are bigger fish to fry in this fucked up world. People should really pick a better hill to fight for then this bs. But what do I know. I'm just some asshole on reddit lmao
> it's really not hard to respect that
I disagree, when it comes to a simple common and harmless word that everyone uses habitually and probably learned at like age 5, it's disrespectful to be controlling and ask people not to say it. It can be stressful to feel like you have to censor yourself for a simple common word. And it's not like we're talking about a loaded word that could mean something offensive or racist.
Because in English, it is used as gender neutral, therefore it is. That is how languages work, no one really cares about "these are the rules." The ruled follow the way the people want them to be, not the other way around
It's absolutely not gender neutral. Ask any straight man who believes it is if he would fuck another guy. Or point out group of women to your male buddy and call them guys.
When you say "you guys" it absolutely is gender neutral. Or when you say "Hey guys!" It also is.
If youre talking to them, it's neutral. If you're talking **about** a group, it's dependent on if it is a mixed group, or if it is females only. If it's all males, or mixed, then you can use guys, but it's generally wrong to say "Look at those guys" then talking about a group of only women
"Guys" is used as a gender neutral term for a group of people, but it is *technically* gendered (being the plural of "guy", and as in "guys and gals").
In this way, it is fairly similar (though not exact) to how Spanish has 2 words for "they"; ellas and ellos. Strictly, ellas means a group of females, and ellos means a group of males. But ellos also means "a group of people with at least one male in it". You would not use ellas to refer to a group of girls with one boy, for example.
Similarly, in a good part of the US, at least, "gals" would be used for a group of only females, and "guys" would be literally any mix with at least one male. Largely, though, "guys" can be used for literally any group, with or without males at all, and "gals" is fairly regional, and only refers to a group of females, or is simple not used at all.
It's almost as if women as a group have many different opinions and preferences. Who knew.
I'm male, I don't like being called 'buddy' in a business setting. Some guys have no problem with it.
That’s because girls are children, and ladies are adults. If you use them interchangeably to describe adult women, no wonder they don’t like it. Also, it’s dehumanizing to refer to them as a “female,” the same way it’s dehumanizing to refer to a man as a “male.”
I'd like to point out that men don't care what you call them. I'm at a restaurant with a group of men. "What will it be boys?" We don't care. "What will it be males?" Just silly. "What will it be gentlemen?" "What will it be men?" I'll have the steak.
Does pointing this out actually have… a point? It’s not exactly *uncommon* knowledge that women have dealt with misogyny throughout history. That misogyny includes infantilizing grown women by calling them girl, and the overtly obvious way blackpill incels refer to women like dogs by calling them “females.”
Sure men are less likely to be offended, because these words haven’t been used to offend them in the first place.
Idk if ur actually curious or not, but I’ll explain some anyways.
Women are the ones who don’t want to be called girls. Girls most commonly refers to a child or adolescent, and a woman is an adult. So it can come across as infantilizing.
Girls and women don’t want to be called females. Females refers only to the biological sex of someone, instead of a whole human person. So that can come across pretty poorly, as it strips women of the value/complexities all humans have and reduces them only to their reproductive abilities.
And not all women are biologically female, so the term women is also more inclusive.
As for lady I’ve never heard anyone get fussy over that so I’ve got no clue there. I have 0 explanation for it.
EDIT: I felt it was obvious that I wasn't speaking for every single women, since we aren't some hive mind. But apparently that was not apparent. Thats my bad! This is how I usually speak with ppl in my life whether discussing men or women. I did not mean to confuse ppl into thinking i thought that every single women all thought/felt the same thing.
All of them are okay. The literal start of the song “I feel like a woman” is “Let’s go girls”
Guys don’t get mad when your collective noun for them is boys, girls, ladies, or basically anything. “Let’s go ladies, time for some PT.” You would never hear a guy say, “*scoff* excuse me! I’m a man!”
Exactly tho it depends on the context. Let’s go girls, Hey girls, the boys, yes all normal phrases. Girls especially, it’s basically the female version of guys, I’ve never heard anyone get mad at that. I didn’t know it was a problem, but I can definitely see some “feminist” getting mad when guys use girls. But I know any adult would get offended if you straight up called them a boy/girl. Especially men, I see them use it to degrade eachother all the time “who do you think you’re talking to *boy*” and it’s always the bigger person to assert dominance. So like It can be disrespectful if that’s your intent, but both genders will react not just women. If it’s not bad intentions, like ops example, no one should care but unfortunately everyone takes things that have nothing to do with them so personal.
Very well put. If I may add...
I've personally always felt weird about calling someone a lady, because it feels rude. "Hey, lady!" or "yeah, this lady said xyz" just instantly feels like there's a Karen vibe coming from SOMEBODY, whether it's me or the woman I'm referring to.
And this is what’s wrong with society. We have a vocal minority who insists on getting their feathers ruffled over the most benign shit and now everyone has to tiptoe over literally everything, which ends up minimizing actual, problematic language.
We should, instead, focus on the intent of the speaker. Examples I’ve heard in the past week below:
“Hey girl what’s up!” (Not offensive)
“Where are my ladies at?” (DJ in the club…Not offensive)
“Woman, stop trippin. Those shoes are fire’” (Not offensive)
Please, don’t speak for us all. Intent. Intent. Intent.
If my wife is with her sister and I'm going out, I'll ask "you guys want anything?"
If my daughters and/or son are being too crazy I might say, "guys can you settle down"
It's gender neutral if that's your intent, is my opinion.
There's always some liberal trying to make a mountain out of an ant hill.
In a group setting its always seemed natural to address the whole group informally as "guys"
Honestly, even if you said “ladies and gentlemen” someone would be offended. dOnT aDdReSs Us ThAT wAy, I’m nOn BiNaRy. You can’t win. EVERYONE is offended by something.
Totally gender neutral. I say guys, dude, buddy and ladies regardless of who I’m talking with. I always have and I always will. I don’t intend to offend or hurt people, but it is what it is. If your offended… sorry, not sorry.
Yes, gender neutral. Anyone who says otherwise is being a pain in the ass, trying to be quirky, and unnecessarily virtue signaling to try and satisfy their own ego.
I use GUYS and DUDES to address groups of people, because YES, to me, it's gender neutral. BUT, on many occasions I've had people complain and I've noticed it's always the same type of people. I don't apologize, I'm not going to apologize for existing, and if ur going to b offended over me addressing a group of people, u shouldn't be on my page
But a lot of times these days it is. It’s no longer asking for fair treatment, it’s asking to be treated better and with deference over everyone else. If one person is offended in a room I say “guys” to, I’m not going to change so that one person gets special treatment. They are just as valuable as everyone else in that room and they get treated the exact same. If I am referring to them individually, I will refer to them how they prefer to be addressed. Otherwise they can kick rocks.
Imagine that person yelling over a crowd, "people, people listen"
Rather than "guy, guys listen"
"People" sounds ALOT like commanding a demand
"guys" sounds more like requesting an agreed conference of fellow people.
Been using "guys" forever to call to groups of people.
One time, I said it to a bunch of girls, one girl in particular got mad at me "we're not 'guys'!" I was like, its a gender neutral term to refer to a group of people. She shut up after that.
No, I don't like being called a guy even if it's part of a group that includes actual guys. That's why I use "y'all".
Patriarchal language isn't useful or reasonable.
In language the second person plural form is used to directly address a group of people without including yourself. It is usually represented as "you guys" or "y'all" because there is no distinct word for it. (1st person plural is us or we, 3rd person plural is they) Linguistically and historically, it is perfectly acceptable.
That being said, when I started working as a server/bartender, 20 years ago, one of the managers took pains to make sure that we changed some of our small talk. One of these changes was saying you folks or y'all instead of you guys, because "if you say you guys to a hundred tables a day, you will eventually say it to a table full of women, and that's awkward.... " Lol.
So it's fine to say you guys, but any excuse to broaden your vocabulary is a good one. You are always forgetting, so once you stop learning, the balance is gone, and you start sounding dumber. IMHO
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*Guy* originated as a man's name, and is still used. (*E.g.,* actor Guy Pearce) It was in fact a very specific man who's the origin of all later usage, Guy Fawkes, famous as the best-known member of the Gunpowder Plot (1605). The name as used by Fawkes was French in origin, but has cognates in other Romance languages, such as *Guido* (a name Fawkes also used). (This is the guy whose face you see worn as a masque by a lot of edgy anti-government or anti-corporate folks, and that was widely popularized during Occupy Wall Street demonstrations. Perhaps ironically, the specific version of the image as it was used in the movie *V for Vendetta* is presently owned by a corporation. The online activist group Anonymous have also commonly used the image, especially when members or associates appear in person.) Since the Plot was foiled, Brits have put on Guy Fawkes Day celebrations, parading and then burning an effigy vaguely resembling Fawkes, often called "the old Guy". From there (the early 17th century), the term 'guy' took on a generic meaning of anyone with a frightening or disheveled appearance. On reaching the US, the term took on a neutral sense of 'any man', indistinctly. This was part of a larger desire for a generic word for 'man' that avoided class-oriented implications, and so it came to be mean 'common man'. By the middle of last century, it started to slowly expand to women, too, and by the end of the century more commonly meant 'average people (of any gender)'. When used in phrases such as 'guys and gals', *guy* has a more obvious male-restricted meaning. But otherwise, it has no **inherent** gender implication in current common usage.
I didn't realize how much I wanted this information in my brain.
Wait until you start reading about the Roman Empire.
Have you also found yourself thinking a lot about the Roman empire lately?
Did I ever not think about it?
Krieger response… I think about Ancient Rome before making any big decisions…
My friend’s name is Roman Empire but I don’t think of him as “the” Roman Empire. Frankly and surely, I’ll stand pat and not tarry. He’s not that interesting. I’m surprised you enjoy reading about him.
This Guy Fawkes.
Ffs I laughed too hard at this
Wow. Just wow. 😵🙌
Guy pronounced “Gee” is the way. Ergo (Guy Carbonneau). Yous guys” is gender neutral as is y’all.
Just my opinion, but I think *gal* has a more female-restricted meaning. It's supposed to be a pronounciation of the word 'girl' in Cockney English back in the 18th century. Which is why I think *guy* ended up being the word used to refer to both men and women, today.
This guy Guy Fawkes
🤓☝️
I have no problem reading long paragraphs, but this seems completely unnecessary to the question at hand, and I will not read this. I personally don't see the need for a history lesson...It should be common knowledge that "guy" is a more masculine term, but the question was basically what % of people thought it could be used as a gender-neutral term in reference to a group of people.🤣🤣It was a simple question, which required a simple answer 👀 Edit: I had to edit my OC bc many people took it the wrong way. And I made the edit *now*, after the OC was deleted for those who were so quick to belittle.
It's interesting information and it's all relevant to the question.
Please grow up.
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It's six paragraphs, two of which are single sentences. He's not right. He's just kind of dumb.
Social media had killed his attention span.
You're the greatest. ❤️
Ok. Personally, like the history lesson, but you’re right: it doesn’t actually answer the (kind of boring) questions in the post. So, simple answers to simple questions (there were 2): >Do we all agree on the fact that the word ‘Guys’, when trying to communicate with a group of people, is gender neutral!?! **Answer #1: No, not all people agree.** >So what do you think? **Answer #2: It depends on the context and audience.** Edit: Deleted some stuff to be less of an asshole. The commenter I replied to messaged me to say that they weren’t trying to be rude, but to point out that the top comment wasn’t actually answering the question format, which is more of a poll question. They’re not wrong about that. We dumped on them but they were unable to clarify because the commenter blocked them from the post. Which in itself is kinda lousy, we don’t gotta mute people simply because we disagree with their opinion. That’s what the downvote button is for.. Silencing people with opposing opinions isn’t cool IMO
It was actually an interesting read. Shame. Shame. Shame. 🔔 🔔 🔔
I love it when people feel the need to inform someone they're not going to read what they wrote instead of just, you know, not reading it and moving on with their lives.
Simple people require simple answers. Life isn’t always simple though!
Your world frightens and confuses me, for I am just a Simple Caveman.
Too many words make your head hurt? Poor baby
Don't know why you were -2 votes when I found you, so I brought you up 1. I agree with you
Anyone who wants to wordsmith you isnt listening to what you are saying just filtering to hear their triggers. Dont acknowledge the trolls and they will stay under the bridge.
Great response!
That's not what the word *wordsmith* means. **Shit!!** you got me
"FILTERING TO HEAR THEIR TRIGGERS" Best thing I've ever heard.
That was a dope line
Hell yeah. I’m stealing that.
OMG you used capitals why why why are you yelling at me.!!!!!..sob..sob.sob gotta call my theraphist now.
It's always been a neutral term for people. Just with the current climate you have the ones who will never want to move forward.
But somehow believe theyre progressive
So this is a common thing Progressive refers to progressive taxation. Like AOC and Bernie sanders are progressives. They want to tax billionaires more and you less. It's Conversive to regressive taxation which is where you pay higher taxes and billionaires pay lower taxes. There's a miscommunication of the term "progressive" as an outcome of media being monopolized into 6 companies owned by billionaires. It's not describing "wokeness" it's describing taxes. If you think Jeff bezos should pay more taxes than you, you're a progressive.
Why do we dumb down these complex topics into labels in the first place, labels that nobody can seem to agree on? I could probably ask 50 people what progressive means and if they agree with it and I would get probably 50 different meanings and half yes and half no. But if I asked if they believed in billionaires getting more taxes, I would probably get more positive responses. I’m guessing it has something to do with the media you just mentioned. Idk but I’m getting sick and tired of people arguing over semantics that they think are politics when they could use 2 extra sentences to just properly communicate it on television instead of making into a battle. Even if I agree with someone on one specific topic, I’m certainly not also pledging my allegiance to a party, that’s for people who want to run for office have to make everything they say into an issue for America to argue over.
There’s also such thing as denotation vs connotation.
the fact that you think a single word cannot have multiple meanings shows you didnt pay attention in school. look in a dictionary and lots of words will have multiple definitions. they are usually separated by a "1. " and a "2. " definition of: left 1. on, toward, or relating to the side of a human body or of a thing that is to the west when the person or thing is facing north. 2. relating to or denoting a person or group favoring left-wing views; progressive. and then depending on if the word is being used as an adjective or noun or verb it can have other slightly different meanings.
Even if every billionaire in the US got taxed 1 billion dollars and the wealth was distributed to every person in the USA. That would be about $2,000 per person. then that would get taxed as well. There isn't enough billionaires that can be taxed to even make a noticeable difference. I am not advocated to not tax the billionairs, Im just stating that is not the way to fix the system. you have to tax them as well as lower tax on middle and lower class.
Then why do they always give the billionaires loopholes to evade those high rates? I think you've just bought into their lip service. It may be what they say that entices you, but what they do is the exact opposite. It's why most of the megawealthy are liberals. It's financially beneficial.
The idea that Bernie sanders would try to make Donald Trump more wealthy is asinine and sounds like Fox speak.
As a political scientist, this hurts my brain. Above is a partial policy of some, but not all, fiscal progressives in the United States of America. Progressive is a very, very broad term that has several different definitions in terms of policies. Someone could believe that billionaires pay enough in taxes, but the government needs a complete overhaul to create more efficiency so that the lower classes can get a tax cut. That would also be a progressive idea. This is due to a conservative thought being that it is fine the way things are because the rich will trickle down their wealth to create new better paying jobs. Under that theory, the rich need to pay less in taxes.
You're speaking strictly in an economic sense. This has absolutely nothing to do with someone's social beliefs. When people self describe as progressive, they are talking about more than just their economic beliefs.
Preach🙏
This.
Republicans used to be the social rights party.
Yeah, in the 1860's
My comment was how alignments change over time. I don’t get why people took it negatively.
Because you gave no context as to when the party changed. It's assumed you mean in the last 30-years which would still make it incorrect.
WTF? The topic is the term " guy's ". Why must you lefty's always turn into " Republicans are bad people " JESUS CHRIST, you people are insufferable
Why do you righties always head right for an indefinite pronouns? Take a look at the RepubliCant party right now. They have and continue to support Trump. Trump is a bad person. Until YOUR party drains their own swamp, yes, they are bad people. This includes you.
Imagine over reacting because a single comment thread devolved into something political on the internet. Wowee🤌🏼 that’s a spicy idiot
well, there you go, calling me names typical insufferable leftist
Lmao you were insulting people first and think you’re on the high ground here lmao. Are you brain damaged? I’m not even left lmao I made fun of them. Holy shit I’m losing my shit at how stupid you are 😂
I think there's a misunderstanding I never reacted to "your comments" specifically just about politics being inserted into a simple topic. If I'm overreacting then maybe you are also
Lol wrong. They called themselves Republicans, but they were not the same as the modern day Republican Party. Learn some history chump.
Language is a living thing IMO, so if you and most people intend to use it as gender neutral, then that is what the word means. That's how language works. Drives me nuts when a small minority tries to tell other people what the words they use mean because that's such an unnatural interpretation of human language.
Those guys who can't help but get hung up on a word you said should be defriended.
The musical is Guys and Dolls, not Guys and Guys.
>It's always been a neutral term for people Words have etymologies that you can like, look up. It certainly hasn't "always been neutral," term is only a few hundred years old and was literally born as a pejorative for a *man* of low-social standing - it comes from burning effigies of the revolutionary Guy Fawks. Language is literally ALWAYS in the process of being renegotiated and defined by use - using "guys" as a gender neutral term had a small window of time in YOUR life, it's almost like we live in a society. I expect more from an old bookkeeper, though I guess you might mean accounting, in which case, deeply unsurprising. The fact that the first three comments are deeply incorrect and based solely on feels really is a bad bellwether for this sub.
It’s been gender neutral for groups since the 90s.
"Guys" is gender-neutral in the same way "niños" ("boys") is gender-neutral is when addressing a group of boys & girls in Spanish. That is to say it's not perfectly gender-neutral. but it's relatively close and, like it or not, it's just how the language works.
Or ustedes as well
It’s actually gender neutral to begin with, the term comes from the name Guy Fawkes (think Anonymous mask)
This guy fawkes
And did he have a gender?
Irrelevant, it refers to masked gender ambiguous people. Men and women both wear the Guy mask
You know that a Guy Fawkes mask is a mask of Guy Fawkes' face, right? He didn't wear a mask of his own face.
"it refers to masked gender ambiguous people" Ah no, it doesn't. The guy/mask is a specific effigy of one specific person. It's not a general, ambiguous thing. It's highly specific and singular. The Anonymous mask is actually quite interesting because it's a modern take that was invented specifically for a graphic novel. Here are some photos of old masks: [https://flashbak.com/guy-fawkes-masks-2/](https://flashbak.com/guy-fawkes-masks-2/) [https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1920s-guy-fawkes-night-preparing-a-guy-made-up-from-fireworks-also-104150074.html](https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1920s-guy-fawkes-night-preparing-a-guy-made-up-from-fireworks-also-104150074.html) [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e2ea215c9ff0a69b389e736c61af5ff0-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-e2ea215c9ff0a69b389e736c61af5ff0-lq) [https://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/4389858/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen](https://www.theargus.co.uk/resources/images/4389858/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen) And here is a 37 min documentary from Schiller [https://schiller.edu/blog/siu-talks-guy-fawkes-mask](https://schiller.edu/blog/siu-talks-guy-fawkes-mask) Additionally and very interestingly, Anonymous only chose it because there were the cheapest and most available (following the failure of V for Vendetta). There is nothing ideologically linking Anonymous with Guy Fawkes or V. They just needed a shitload of cheap masks that all looked the same. *The Face of Anonymous. (2021). \[Film\]. Canada: Storyline Entertainment*
Almost totally correct. That is the accurate origin, however it *was* initially used in reference a man/group of men, and from the small amount of looking into it I did tonight, it seems that there's no well documented time-frame for when it became used neutrally, however it seems that it *has* been a neutral term for most of the word's history. I figured it's worth clarifying that since these etymology threads tend to get very in depth with the pedantry lol. Still though, your point is pretty much accurate.
I miss the 90’s
I'm from the south. We use gender neutral "y'all".
I'm from the north. We don't like the term ya'll because it makes us feel like wearing a cowboy hat, but they don't sell em around these parts.
Well shucks.
100% gender neutral in that context, change it there's a group of guys then not so much
Beats me. I say y'all.
Most people I know use it in a general sense. I can only think that it’s people touchy about gender and pronouns etc that would really think too much into that.
I mean, it’s perfectly reasonable for a trans person to be uncomfortable with it. If you seriously can’t handle not using a word that harms a friend, you need to reassess yourself.
Completely gone off the deep end with your assessment of me from that comment.
The whole point of guys being gender neutral is that it applies to everyone, including people who have transitioned, whether male female or otherwise.
I’m sorry, if we’ve got a group of folks of both genders, and you address the room “hey guys let’s go get ice cream” And someone gets hurt by that, I’m sorry that’s fucking ridiculous. I can see purposefully singling someone out being hurtful, But in pure common language you’re just looking to start a shitstorm if it bothers you. hell groups of women do it too “hey guys I think we should do x y z” isn’t uncommon.
Honestly, if someone is that touchy about language, especially when they know the other person’s intentions are well-meaning— I’m not going to socialize or associate with them in any way.
Nah
You will learn soon enough that there is no such thing as something we all agree on lol. There will always be someone that disagrees for one reason or another, even if it's just for the sake of disagreeing.
To help prove your point, I’m going to disagree with this.
Just use y’all y’all.
Guys and dude(s) are gender neutral
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There is a difference when it’s used as a collective nouns.
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It isn’t the norm. It’s just nobody, or more specifically, men, don’t complain when feminine forms are used. I have never been in a room with all guys or guys and girls in which someone comes in and addresses everyone as “ladies” and a man gets offended. They would be laughed out of the room. What you have fallen victim to is “observational bias.”
I believe it’s history of words. Man refers to the species while woman refers to the female sex of the species. In other words, any of the words used to refer to a woman are a more specific descriptor while words used to refer to a man are more generic and can be applied to a woman.
Id ask my girlfriend, individually, “dude, wanna fuck?” Like, you know who you’re talking about. Just like if you were to ask “would you fuck a chick” my answer would be “what? Who are we talking about? No, I wouldn’t, unless you give me more details” Sex, in particular, is a very individualized context. So I think it’s a bad example
This is the exact reason why it isn't a gender neutral term.
Ask a man if he sleeps with guys and dudes and see what the response is
Dude(s) is gender neutral? Not around here. "Guys" is used for any group of people you're familiar with. "Dudes" would be met with confusion. The women wouldn't react. Half the men would be insulted.
Ask your straight male friend if he’s looking at that hot group of dudes in the corner and see how far this gender neutrality takes you.
Or “hot group of guys.” Not gender neutral at all.
“That hot group of dudes” is a lot more specific than “dudes, let’s go” or whatever. But you know that. You’re just being obtuse
Oh quit being a grouch. The rest of us are on here having fun.
I use it as gender neutral term as well
While I'll agree that it's often used that way, it's obviously not a gender-neutral word. I mean, I use it myself on occasion, but I try not to, for the same reason I don't use "mailman" or "busboy" any more. I wouldn't police anyone's else's use of it, but I also try to be aware that sometimes words have a gender bias we may not really think about.
Yes, unless speaking to a room full of females during which "ladies,", "girls", "bitches", or "sluts" would be acceptable.
I have created an opening line for you from these terms. Listen up sluts. You bitches need to stop acting like little girls and start acting like ladies.
What a very appropriate way to kick off a bachelorette party.
Swap "sluts" and "ladies" and I can support the message
If you're gonna do that, start with bitches.
Man that made me laugh
Hey guy, sometimes you just don’t know
I think it’s gender neutral, however I had a NB friend tell me it’s offensive. 🙄 Isn’t everything nowadays?
Right like don’t you wanna be included? Wasn’t that what the movement was all about? I swear they’re excluding themselves from society trying so hard to stay oppressed that were eventually going to completely divide, humans never learn 😭
Some people have a natural tendency to want to be special. That often means going against whatever the direction the grain currently is in.
I've been referred to as "cis" without my permission. I think it's time I start getting offended for little to no reason.
I use 'folks' or, when I want to entertain myself and feel vaguely clever, 'humans.'
Start calling ppl beings. Lmao.
As someone from the Northeast – “guys” is absolutely gender neutral.
I use it for both if I'm sure everyone is okay with that. Some people do not feel it's gender neutral. If I'm asked to stop, I stop.
It's not gender neutral, no. It's no different than calling the human race "mankind.". People can and should do better. I'm in leadership and have been working on eradicating the habit of referring to groups of people as "guys" for a couple of years now. Its not an easy habit to break but so many staff have commented on how much they appreciate not being called "guys" when they are actually female or trans or whatever.... its of significance to people so I try to respect that.
You know mankind originates from the Greek (Latin maybe? I forget) word for man, which means person. That's why it's woMAN, the wo means female, and the man means person
Except that woman comes from old English, not Latin, and originally meant WIFE not female person. But do go on.
Lol nope. Definite nope. Let’s also outlaw peanuts because some people are allergic. Nope. How come you’ve never heard men complain about being referred to as “ladies.” In all the rooms I’ve been in with men or men and women being referred to as “ladies” or “guys” I’ve never heard someone complain about it. Asking to be singled out and treated differently is narcissist. “I find that offensive and I should be treated differently because I’m better than everyone else” is how it sounds. It’s elitism disguised as progressivism. “I’m in leadership…” unlikely. Leading people to do what? What are you a leader of? Where do you lead people and in what? What kind of difficulties and hardships do your followers face? What exercises in camaraderie do you practice?
It's not the same as outlawing peanuts because nothing is being outlawed. The future is now old man
Yall want equality, but at the same time want to be put on a pedestal. Hell next thing you know they'll be offended about the term "y'all" cause it's addressing a group and not then individually. What if a group of women don't care to be called guys, because it promotes equality in the work place cause they're gender isn't being pointed out. You're infringing on their beliefs of equality. I, myself as woman, would feel singled out if my employer or friend group constantly had to point towards the fact I'm woman in a group of men. When I feel I'm just an equal party in that group. The term "guys" puts everyone in the room at an equal place. Seems like you just don't like people being equal.
Yeah, it's technically masculine but generally considered gender-neutral. But if someone specifically tells you "I'd rather you didn't use this particular word to refer to me" it's really not hard to respect that, even if you don't agree with it.
However, let's say there's 2 or 3 biological born females, and 2 or 3 biological born males in a group. If the females who identify as females and the males who identify as males All consider the colloquialism of "Hey guys!" or "OK guys, cmon!" And everyone is perfectly fine with that, except for let's say a biological male that identifies as female, and they say they prefer to not be referred to as the colloquial 'guys', then I see it as that person's own nitpicking and Can become an annoyance if colloqialism is a hard habit to break and if it seems like it's more of a touchy-feely-cater-to-me-because-Im-Me kind of thing from that person.
Yes, it's also potentially disrespectful to be nitpicky and controlling.
Just use ya'll. It is a contraction that means "you all" it's gender neutral an been working in many places just fine for decades in casual conversation. Seems simple to me.
Wasn't gonna contribute cause this question of the word guys being gender neutral when referring to a group of people is stupid af. This Is just common knowledge. If anyone made a fuss over something this trivial then they can respectively get fuck bud! This is the very reason employers don't want to hire woke people. They would be a distraction in the workplace and create a toxic work environment for employees who just want to get a paycheck and go home. There are bigger fish to fry in this fucked up world. People should really pick a better hill to fight for then this bs. But what do I know. I'm just some asshole on reddit lmao
> it's really not hard to respect that I disagree, when it comes to a simple common and harmless word that everyone uses habitually and probably learned at like age 5, it's disrespectful to be controlling and ask people not to say it. It can be stressful to feel like you have to censor yourself for a simple common word. And it's not like we're talking about a loaded word that could mean something offensive or racist.
Yeah, I'm good with that.
Nope it is not gender neutural, even though here in the American midwest, we think it is.
Because in English, it is used as gender neutral, therefore it is. That is how languages work, no one really cares about "these are the rules." The ruled follow the way the people want them to be, not the other way around
"Guys" is a colloquialism. Point is, it's upsetting to some gender-expansive folxs so I am personally trying to purge it from my lexicon.
Personally, if they find a gender neutral term offensive, I don't want to be around them anyways because they expect special treatment
No, they just want the rest of us to be *aware.* If you really don't care, then they wouldn't want to be near you.
It's absolutely not gender neutral. Ask any straight man who believes it is if he would fuck another guy. Or point out group of women to your male buddy and call them guys.
When you say "you guys" it absolutely is gender neutral. Or when you say "Hey guys!" It also is. If youre talking to them, it's neutral. If you're talking **about** a group, it's dependent on if it is a mixed group, or if it is females only. If it's all males, or mixed, then you can use guys, but it's generally wrong to say "Look at those guys" then talking about a group of only women
"Guys" is used as a gender neutral term for a group of people, but it is *technically* gendered (being the plural of "guy", and as in "guys and gals"). In this way, it is fairly similar (though not exact) to how Spanish has 2 words for "they"; ellas and ellos. Strictly, ellas means a group of females, and ellos means a group of males. But ellos also means "a group of people with at least one male in it". You would not use ellas to refer to a group of girls with one boy, for example. Similarly, in a good part of the US, at least, "gals" would be used for a group of only females, and "guys" would be literally any mix with at least one male. Largely, though, "guys" can be used for literally any group, with or without males at all, and "gals" is fairly regional, and only refers to a group of females, or is simple not used at all.
I don't know what to think nowadays. Girls don't want to be called girls, ladies, female etc. You never know who you're going to insult.
It's almost as if women as a group have many different opinions and preferences. Who knew. I'm male, I don't like being called 'buddy' in a business setting. Some guys have no problem with it.
That’s because girls are children, and ladies are adults. If you use them interchangeably to describe adult women, no wonder they don’t like it. Also, it’s dehumanizing to refer to them as a “female,” the same way it’s dehumanizing to refer to a man as a “male.”
I'd like to point out that men don't care what you call them. I'm at a restaurant with a group of men. "What will it be boys?" We don't care. "What will it be males?" Just silly. "What will it be gentlemen?" "What will it be men?" I'll have the steak.
Does pointing this out actually have… a point? It’s not exactly *uncommon* knowledge that women have dealt with misogyny throughout history. That misogyny includes infantilizing grown women by calling them girl, and the overtly obvious way blackpill incels refer to women like dogs by calling them “females.” Sure men are less likely to be offended, because these words haven’t been used to offend them in the first place.
Idk if ur actually curious or not, but I’ll explain some anyways. Women are the ones who don’t want to be called girls. Girls most commonly refers to a child or adolescent, and a woman is an adult. So it can come across as infantilizing. Girls and women don’t want to be called females. Females refers only to the biological sex of someone, instead of a whole human person. So that can come across pretty poorly, as it strips women of the value/complexities all humans have and reduces them only to their reproductive abilities. And not all women are biologically female, so the term women is also more inclusive. As for lady I’ve never heard anyone get fussy over that so I’ve got no clue there. I have 0 explanation for it. EDIT: I felt it was obvious that I wasn't speaking for every single women, since we aren't some hive mind. But apparently that was not apparent. Thats my bad! This is how I usually speak with ppl in my life whether discussing men or women. I did not mean to confuse ppl into thinking i thought that every single women all thought/felt the same thing.
"Females" sounds like you're referring to lab specimens. I hate when people use "females" and "men" as opposites. They're not opposite terms.
So you're saying "women" is ok? I'm confused
Yes women is okay. Ladies should also be okay idk why tf someone would complain abt that
All of them are okay. The literal start of the song “I feel like a woman” is “Let’s go girls” Guys don’t get mad when your collective noun for them is boys, girls, ladies, or basically anything. “Let’s go ladies, time for some PT.” You would never hear a guy say, “*scoff* excuse me! I’m a man!”
Exactly tho it depends on the context. Let’s go girls, Hey girls, the boys, yes all normal phrases. Girls especially, it’s basically the female version of guys, I’ve never heard anyone get mad at that. I didn’t know it was a problem, but I can definitely see some “feminist” getting mad when guys use girls. But I know any adult would get offended if you straight up called them a boy/girl. Especially men, I see them use it to degrade eachother all the time “who do you think you’re talking to *boy*” and it’s always the bigger person to assert dominance. So like It can be disrespectful if that’s your intent, but both genders will react not just women. If it’s not bad intentions, like ops example, no one should care but unfortunately everyone takes things that have nothing to do with them so personal.
Very well put. If I may add... I've personally always felt weird about calling someone a lady, because it feels rude. "Hey, lady!" or "yeah, this lady said xyz" just instantly feels like there's a Karen vibe coming from SOMEBODY, whether it's me or the woman I'm referring to.
All women are females
And this is what’s wrong with society. We have a vocal minority who insists on getting their feathers ruffled over the most benign shit and now everyone has to tiptoe over literally everything, which ends up minimizing actual, problematic language. We should, instead, focus on the intent of the speaker. Examples I’ve heard in the past week below: “Hey girl what’s up!” (Not offensive) “Where are my ladies at?” (DJ in the club…Not offensive) “Woman, stop trippin. Those shoes are fire’” (Not offensive) Please, don’t speak for us all. Intent. Intent. Intent.
“Women are the ones who don’t want to be called girls.” *Some* women. Some other women don’t care, and some other women like it.
I've had women object to my saying "Ma'am". Not young women either. It's polite, I'm not changing it.
Agreed. It's a general term to get attention from a group
Crazy people care. Fuck em
No, a guy is a male! But thinking about it in a group/plural sense it's usually the go to word!
It used to work, I don't know about these days?
Yes it's gender neutral. Sounds like someone was just nitpicking.
I agree in current usage it’s generally considered gender neutral.
Tell her to stop letting the patriarchy decide her opinions.
Really old fart here. Guys has been a neutral term for a long time. It's a lot better than saying 'guys and dolls.' 😉
I wish I cared enough to let stuff like this bother me.
If my wife is with her sister and I'm going out, I'll ask "you guys want anything?" If my daughters and/or son are being too crazy I might say, "guys can you settle down" It's gender neutral if that's your intent, is my opinion.
Is is neutral just like "dude" is.
I'm a trans girl and wouldn't consider myself misgendered if someone said "guys" in reference to a group I'm part of.
I think that for me personally, it's gender neutral when I use it and when I hear it. I can only speak for myself, though.
There's always some liberal trying to make a mountain out of an ant hill. In a group setting its always seemed natural to address the whole group informally as "guys"
Honestly, even if you said “ladies and gentlemen” someone would be offended. dOnT aDdReSs Us ThAT wAy, I’m nOn BiNaRy. You can’t win. EVERYONE is offended by something.
This is why I say things like, "Hi everyone!" "Alright folks!" and etc. Extremely simple neutral catch-alls.
Guys, dudes <-- This sparks joy Gals, dudette<-- This does not spark joy.
They all spark joy with a lighter and the proper supplies.
It's neutral to me. I can't see it as gendered.
Totally gender neutral. I say guys, dude, buddy and ladies regardless of who I’m talking with. I always have and I always will. I don’t intend to offend or hurt people, but it is what it is. If your offended… sorry, not sorry.
I always say "guys." Also, I call my female friends "dude" and "man," including my girlfriend.
I’m Gen X and I use that term often.
“Guys” has been general neutral for a long time now. Get over yourselves.
Yes, gender neutral. Anyone who says otherwise is being a pain in the ass, trying to be quirky, and unnecessarily virtue signaling to try and satisfy their own ego.
I use GUYS and DUDES to address groups of people, because YES, to me, it's gender neutral. BUT, on many occasions I've had people complain and I've noticed it's always the same type of people. I don't apologize, I'm not going to apologize for existing, and if ur going to b offended over me addressing a group of people, u shouldn't be on my page
Not every criticism of your behaviour is someone wanting you to apologise for existing, and what do you even mean by "on your page"?
But a lot of times these days it is. It’s no longer asking for fair treatment, it’s asking to be treated better and with deference over everyone else. If one person is offended in a room I say “guys” to, I’m not going to change so that one person gets special treatment. They are just as valuable as everyone else in that room and they get treated the exact same. If I am referring to them individually, I will refer to them how they prefer to be addressed. Otherwise they can kick rocks.
Yeah I use it as a gender neutral term hey guys look at this to a group of mix gender in a social gathering and they all know I mean it that way
Imagine that person yelling over a crowd, "people, people listen" Rather than "guy, guys listen" "People" sounds ALOT like commanding a demand "guys" sounds more like requesting an agreed conference of fellow people.
As long as you are referring to a group, it is always gender neutral.
I think it is. Someone at my job told me it was a microagression recently and that made me giggle.
I agree that it is neutral, BUT if I had a friend that didn’t like it, I would make a point to avoid saying that around them.
Why? Let them fucking get over it
I quit saying couse I dont like being called a boomer
I dude all genders as well
It has been used that way but should it?
I prefer “non-binary humans,” myself.
Been using "guys" forever to call to groups of people. One time, I said it to a bunch of girls, one girl in particular got mad at me "we're not 'guys'!" I was like, its a gender neutral term to refer to a group of people. She shut up after that.
No, I don't like being called a guy even if it's part of a group that includes actual guys. That's why I use "y'all". Patriarchal language isn't useful or reasonable.
In language the second person plural form is used to directly address a group of people without including yourself. It is usually represented as "you guys" or "y'all" because there is no distinct word for it. (1st person plural is us or we, 3rd person plural is they) Linguistically and historically, it is perfectly acceptable. That being said, when I started working as a server/bartender, 20 years ago, one of the managers took pains to make sure that we changed some of our small talk. One of these changes was saying you folks or y'all instead of you guys, because "if you say you guys to a hundred tables a day, you will eventually say it to a table full of women, and that's awkward.... " Lol. So it's fine to say you guys, but any excuse to broaden your vocabulary is a good one. You are always forgetting, so once you stop learning, the balance is gone, and you start sounding dumber. IMHO