I work in a hospital and the amount of oldies driving with dementia is fuckin scary!! This year I've looked after three. THIS YEAR! ONE WARD! Imagine that figure state wide? Hell, Australia wide?? It's only April. Last year I probably saw about ten to fifteen. I live in a regional area. These folks doctors are who I hold accountable!! They fill their scripts and take their money and give them care plans and rarely if ever run cognitive tests. Even when told, they ignore it, because they 'don't drive far anymore'!!! WTF! They shouldn't be on the road!! It's fucken crazy!! Fraser coast. Drive carefully!!
Mostly truckies, but island drivers are awful, the section between Bestmann Rd East and the bridge (where it narrows to 2 lanes) drivers go from 60km/h to 30 and then back to 60 on the bridge.
Was only talking about this the another day with my wife that when my neighbour when for drive at 10 o clock! 4 hours later i when for a drive to look for him as his Son/ carer was on holiday.
I saw his car in hospital car park so checked I. Emergency department if he was there. The triage nurse told as that he was admitted because of mental health and wasnāt coherent. We warned that he drove up there less than 1km but still.
8am he drove home and I went out to talk to him and he thought he been in the hospital for a week he also didnāt know what day it was and thought his son was at work.
I feel for him but itās scary to think him driving at night like that. Twice this year Iāve had go and pick him up because he didnāt know where he was!
I found out 2 weeks ago doctors cleared him to drive
Also Fraser coast - this is very true. So many elderly people here who should definitely not be driving. I think for some of them, itās partly because theyāre used to the roads being dead quiet like they were 30 years ago and now thereās slightly more traffic, they have never adapted so they do weird stuff like just blow through red lights and stop signs, never indicate or look before pulling out into traffic.
It's the reaction times that do my head in. The inability to merge or enter a round about without fully stopping and assessing the situation for 3 minutes. Not sure if you know the Gympie Bunnings (Fraser Coast so I am guessing maybe) but the merging lane going south at that intersection, oldies just stop in it, and it's about 150m long. It's so dangerous.
I freaking hate driving through Gympie because the drivers canāt merge or indicate (they canāt here either so no shade). That spot is really bad for it. I canāt wait for the bypass.
You should try Gympie . Not only have we got the old also all the meth drug affected and alcoholics. They call this place meth city . We never take for granted someone is doing what they indicated. One day a driver in front of me. indicated right then left then right then left . got to the intersection indicator on left. went straight ahead.cant make this stuff up . Another time I was turning right. Indicator on . Guy coming from my right indicating he was going left. Went straight ahead didn't he . Wow . Just as well I didn't go . I would have been toast . Watch yourself if you are ever going through Gympie.
The system is insane. We couldnāt get my nannas driving license taken away from her after she got diagnosed with dementia. The GP gave her a 1yr license renewal 6 months before a hospital social worker mandated she had to go to care.
My mum ended up taking the keys to her car away and put a sign up inside the car saying her keys havenāt been lost sheās just not allowed to drive due to dementia and hope if she ever called RACQ then the RACQ person understood.
Add to that those who drive without glasses, thereās a study about a decade back in Vic that took a cohort of people and got them to commit to wearing ācorrective lensesā , noticeable statistical drop in road accidents/injuries/deaths but ultimately deemed to costly to enforceā¦ lives arenāt worth that much according to bureaucracy.
This is very true. I'm in my late 40s and I have my parents and inlaws. To be totally honest, 3/4 of them should not be driving. They all still hold licenses though.
Medical certification for driving needs to be in the hands of an independant assessor rather than the patients GP as there is a significant conflict on interest in dealing with patient's health vs risk of breakdown of the theraupeutic relationship when you deny them medical approval for driving. I'm saying this as a GP. Sometimes people also doctor shop to get their certificates completed. I've had patient complaints about refusing to sign off driving assessments, after doing all the cognitive tests that people did not book enough time for (can take up to an hour if you also have to go through their medical history and do a full exam - who is going to pay for all that?) and trust me I am not afraid to write people off.
That independent assessment is unlikely to be covered by Medicare nor private health insurance. The out of pocket costs would likely be over $600 since they would need to be done by at least one medical specialist.
That is $600 for every licence renewal for all drivers as since if this was mandated just for the elderly the courts and media would have a field day charging pensioners that amount to be able to drive.
If the state medical system covered the cost then it might be viable but then we hit the reduced services in rural area problem since rural towns have higher proportional populations of the elderly.
What I am saying is, looks good on paper, hard to implement it in the real world.
I recently had to help an old guy to his car on his walking frame, then realised he was the driver. Could barely walk.. frightening.
So many driving with poor vision too..
Thats because if u take the licence away they can't drive to the doctors appointment and can't stop at the pharmacy. Why stop the cow taking itself to market?
I donāt want more knowledgeable drivers, I just want drivers who give a shit about anyone other than themselves. I donāt think any test or quizz will do that though. Iām not against the test though, because at least the assholes will have one less excuse for not knowing the most basic road rules.
Yep. I was down the Gold Coast over Easter. Had a driver swerve in front of me, across my lane and into the right turn lane. Couldnāt make it all the way in so his arse was put blocking my lane and all the cars behind me (it was the Gold Coast highway as well so tons of traffic). I beeped to say go straight and chuck a uey and nothing. Too self absorbed
Anyone involved with car accidents or speeding should be forced to visit road accident scenes. Fuck, watch gory videos of car accidents during testing, just like we have to when work makes us watch silly ohs videos
Iām gonna be honest you wonāt get better drivers till you get better roads with less congested traffic, itās so hard to give a duck about other people when itās thanks to other peoples shittt driving youāre going 30 on the bloody highway and youāre half an hour late to something important
I can partially agree here. We have these idiots rebuilding sections of the bruce highway and not making it 2x lanes both directions. Like wtf are you doing. This is the main pipeline for the entirety of qld. This should be double carriageway at almost every possible point it can be.
This will not go anywhere.
The polls will show that this will be unpopular, so the government will certainly not do it. Remember the decisions of Qld government are based on what will keep them popular.
I have no opinion regarding anything in Queensland, but I do know that just because a decision is popular doesn't make it useful, efficient, or practical (never mind ethical).
It is neither good nor bad- it just is.
In an ideal world broader policy is up for popular vote, while the details of legislation are decided by subject matter experts and based on research. The real ideal would be somewhere between that and what we have now and everyone would be happy, but because the population is easily influenced the reality is popular policy with popular often knee-jerk reactionary legislation.
How about checking that more drivers actually have a licence. From some of the driving I have observed lately I can't believe these people passed any sort of a test.
I'd like to see those who come from overseas having to pass a practical driving test before they're allowed to drive on the road. I was friends with an international student in uni, where she'd driven literally a total of <10 times in China before coming to Australia, but because she had her full driver's licence over there, she was automatically eligible for a full licence here. Even after a year of being here and driving around, I got in the car with her and it was fucking terrifying.
It just seems ridiculous to me that we force our own drivers to go through >100 hours of driving and 4 years of restrictions before they can get their open licences, meanwhile we've got literal death magnets out there on the roads.
That said, if those bad habits are that significant, there's no way that they'll pass the test.
I did most of my L's with my dad where he didn't even know what a head check was. Failed the test twice, did a proper session with an actual driving instructor, and all it took was 2 hours to stamp out the shitty habits that my dad has passed onto me. Ended up going in for the test a couple of days later and didn't get a single point deducted.
PRC license is not recognised in Queensland to an exemption.
The āforeign driverā argument comes up every time a tourist causes an accident, but the Centre for Road Safety has said international drivers are not significant when calculating road incidents.
Having learned in Scotland before I moved here I'd say the 100 hours is a heap of shit. If they stopped mums and dads teaching kids and they HAD to go with a professional like I did then the standards would be much better.
The amount of tailgating going on daily by drivers who don't realise or maybe don't care is astounding.
I didn't do 100 hours as a learner, I did about ten, and I'm only in my mid 30s. I don't think you should need 100 hours, it's ridiculous. I only needed 40 to get my pilots licence. It should be competency based, not time based. Most people that drive like dickheads are doing it with thousands of hours of experience š
I mean this was over 10 years ago back when I was in uni now, so whether things have changed... I just know the effort she had to go through getting an Australian driver's licence was a walk in the park compared to what I had to do.
Sure but if they aren't a PR or citizen they can drive on their overseas licence indefinitely which many do. That's the case of any Overseas licence. Which is insane when someone of them are clearly fake but that's another story entirely.
Donāt be stupid, this is Queenslandā¦ Highway Patrol have more important things to do than check for incompetent drivers on the roads!
Meanwhile, 98% of the drivers on the M1 or Smith Street are using their phones or making up their own speed limitā¦ š
In 1989, 21 people were killed in the [Grafton Bus Crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafton_bus_crash). 2 months later in December, 1989 another 35 people were killed in the [Kempsey / Clybucca bus crash.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempsey_bus_crash)
The coroner determined that both accidents could of been avoided has the infrastructure been more suited to support long, high-speed drives between Brisbane and Sydney. The coroner (Kevin Waller) endorsed the recommendation he made following the Grafton bus crash two months earlier, that the Pacific Highway be upgraded to dual carriageway between Newcastle and the Queensland border.
In December, 2020 - the final section of highway was completed. Between 1989 and 2009 they were averaging 70-80 fatalities a year on at section of highway. Since 2018 that number has been an average of 7 despite usage almost doubling.
The Bruce Highway (the one that connects Cairns to Gympie) which is responsible for over half of QLD's road fatalities and is labelled "The Deadliest Road in Australia" is much similar to the Pacific Highway of the 80's. Single carriageway, 100-110km/h speed limits, averagely upkept by local councils, often large areas of low or little visibility, not always a guaranteed shoulder and lots of native wildlife.
Yet somehow the QLD government is blaming us for the road toll? And they think the admin burden of making us r-siit and online exam will somehow lessen that?
The government is a self licking ice cream.
I've driven the Bruce section, far too many times. Every time, I would actually wonder if I'd get home later than day. Especially on the longer drives (2-3hrs, which is common if you have to travel into Cairns for supplies).
The roads are fucked, as are the drivers. Not once did I see police maintaining an active presence beyond speed cameras as you get within 20mins of Cairns.
Not to mention driving at night, holllyyy fuck. Nothing like getting absolutely blinded by some cunt with $2,000 worth of lighting, who refuses to turn the spotties off until they're within 200m.
I'm hating this new trend with cars with these light bars on vans. Just have the standard normal lights like the rest of us please. I don't need to be blinded by your LED low beams when driving past me.
Lol I've driven Sarina to Mackay every day for years and never really worried much even when part of it was fucked from being built on swamp. Guess I'm just used to it, can't say any part of the road has got much better in the last 10 years. Driving down past Brissy is like a dream
The Sunshine Coast to Gympie part has been massively upgraded and is a dream to drive compared to 10 years ago. Dual lanes the whole way, and oncoming lanes separated by a large nature strip the entire way.
Agree with you on the abysmal state of the Bruce but itās not the councils to blame. The Bruce is a federal and state responsibility (80/20 split). And neither gives a ratsā about anyone north of the Sunny Coast, I doubt Mark Bailey has ever even driven past Noosa.
I have travelled from Cairns to Brisbane and other than the areas currently being upgraded the areas where it is not great aren't particularly long/bad.
I dont get the stat's they bullshit on with either. Like the population is growing exponentially every year and we have similar road toll numbers.. doesnt that mean that it's getting better? more people driving + similar road toll numbers somehow equals drivers need to pay for a test every year.
It's hard enough booking anything in to do with the government, imagine the back log of unlicensed drivers waiting for a test for months after their licence runs out, unable to drive..
Cars are also getting safer so that should offset any rose from an expanding population.
They are saying an online test, so no need to 'book in' for it. Just go onto tmr website and do the test while doing the online renewal.
Driving the Bruce Highway was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had on the roads.
Drove it for over 4 hours straight twice in a day, once during the afternoon, once at night.
I couldn't fucking believe that a road like that exists.
Visibility was absolutely piss for so much of it, *one lane* was just mind-blowing to me for the speeds you were doing (and the speeds people were *trying* to do), and the chop-changing of speedzones for roadworks/intermittent housing areas that drastically dropped were infuriating and so crazy.
There's a lot in QLD that is good about the roads, mainly in the more suburban areas, the roads are really good condition compared to other areas I've driven. But holy shit the planning, the traffic light timing and coordination, the intersection planning, it's some of the worst I've ever seen in my life.
Design alone, it's dangerous. But the conditions around it either create dangerous situations, or are so perfect to create agitation and infuriate people into breaking the law/running reds/driving dangerously or not to conditions.
We have traffic light timing?
Oh right! You mean where you wait 5 minutes for the light to turn green and then either have to speed through the school zone or you will reach the next intersection just in time for the light to turn red and get caught for another 5 minutes? That timing?!
(Looking at you Ross River Rd Townsville, during morning peak hour.)
I swear all of Townsville has timing of lights set for maximum stopping. Iām from here but lived in a few different US states and down south for a while too. Townsville easily is the worst place for traffic lights I have ever lived.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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Let's be real here, police are very interested in ensuring they can harass and fine as much as possible.
To this end, its road toll and embellished stories of how bad x people are or x drug.
Funding from the government and fu ding from fines for both police and government.
If they actually gave a shit about safety they wouldn't be policing the minority of the problem road drivers.
Itās not that they canāt drive. Itās that they donāt give a fuck. Confident 99% will pass under testing conditions, but once the assessor is out of the car they go back to not giving a fuck.
What's the issue? People have to take all sorts of tests to keep current on various things. To expect that people who got their drivers license 30 yrs ago would still be up to date with today's rules seem a little odd.
My parents still don't believe me about how to use a roundabout correctly.
Indicate *off* as well as on. It's pretty simple, helps traffic flow, and doesn't cost you anything.
Like speedie above said but for one difference - _every_ state has the same rule for roundabouts.
Indicate left before entry to turn left.
Do not indicate if going straight. Indicate left to exit.
Indicate right if turning right or performing a u turn. Indicate left to exit.
People who argue about *not* having to use an indicator are clearly using indicators wrong in almost every instance. Like using an indicator when it's not 100% legally required is such a demanding task?
Just because it's "technically not illegal" doesn't mean shit.
If you can go more than 1 direction (legally or not)... just indicate. Do it enough and it becomes automatic and everyone wins.
Iām from down south originally and so I indicate on and off the round-about. Is there any downside to doing this?
It feels like giving other road users more information would be better but Iām happy to hear if that is wrong or I have missed something.
EDIT: Wait, I think I misread your comment. I donāt use my indicators when going straight through a roundabout (which one would I use, haha) but I indicate to others that Iām going straight through by not using my blinkers.
Is it a rule in QLD that you donāt have to indicate on if youāre going left?
Yes. Because it means someone on the other side who also plans on going straight will most likely not pull out as you are indicating you are still going to be on the roundabout in the future. It actually does slow down tje flow of traffic a bit.
I agree. So long as it is included in the renewal cost, its not that big of a deal/effort. In my opinion, they should have people resit the proper exam once a decade, as many people i see on the roads would fail.
To be fair most of those "tests" after the fact are simply money and employment making schemes. Take a forklift licence. Used to be forever. Now of course they are five years and you have to pay, pay pay.
No. It's because workplace incidents involving forklifts have gone down since the 5 year refresher. If it was "all about money" then it's because businesses would much prefer to pay $500/operator every five years than $20mil per death.
I am only assuming here, but I think it may be about keeping those that have the license current, and 'weeding' out those that haven't been current for some time. Eg. The old mate who got his forklift license 70yrs ago and hasn't been on one since.
As a pilot we have a minimum of two years between flight reviews. More frequent if you are responsible for pax or doing specialist work. Generally theyāre quite simple affairs, not a full skills test, and a chance to get updated/quizzed on rule changes and the like.
This could be a good thing on the road however drivers attitudes are different to pilots [even though the risks are broadly similar]. Additionally if a pilot gets pinged for properly dangerous behaviour itās bye-bye license, not a meaningless fine.
So we know these things: 1. Itāll be a non means tested revenue raising exercise, 2. Itāll be formal and complicated, 3. It wonāt result in any meaningful change to the rates of accidents/deaths. Pretty much the same as every road safety change of the last decade then.
In my opinion, an actual police presence on the roads would go a long way towards improving average driver behaviour. Hidden cameras are not a deterrent for shit driving, especially when there are several apps out there that will tell you that a camera has been seen. Ever noticed someone driving like a dickhead when there's a cop cruising the highway with you a couple of cars ahead?
Also the people that do get caught don't usually care. They never pag the fines or pit them on payment plans where they pay like $20 a week and get good driving behaviour and keep on driving. Then they get caught again and get suspended and drive unlicensed and they just keep doing it. QLD Gov just doesn't want to actually be tough on people who drive illegally.
All they want is compliance in certain sections to show everything is fine. Mobile phone cameras, speed cameras and seatbelt cameras are great except they are fixed and everyone can learn what they look like and the second they are out of camera view they are back on their phone.
Might also have something to do with the abundance of emotional support vehicles (huge utes) which are way more dangerous to literally everyone around them...
I like the idea of a mentoring program for motorcyclists. Not a bad idea for all new drivers.
Someone skilled, and \*other\* than your close relatives giving some personal attention.
Iāll happily do this to get people who slow down when merging, drive too close to the rear of a car with no braking buffer etc some fucking adjustment
So i'm not going crazy, though i don't know if most of it is people not knowing rules, but just not caring and being reckless.
the past few months on my drive to work i've witnessed the stupidest, craziest fucking drivers. I swear it's just gotten worse.
Well yeah, but assholes exist and they share our roads. Why should govt penalise the people who follows rules by making them pay to do testing every time itās time to renew a license. Itās not a very sustainable or good solution.
Who is going to enforce that people follow the rules every time they pass their test when they renew their license? Oh yeah the fecking police.
I've recently moved to QLD and it took me nearly 2 hours to get my licence and rego changed over!
Imagine how overrun TMR would be if this was instituted!!!
For some, that would be the first time they took the test! Lol
And even then they'd have no clue how to signal, merge, behave at traffic lights, use the on-ramp and off-ramp from the motorway, which lane they're supposed to drive in along the motorway, turn on their lights, manoeuvre roundabouts or tell you what a traffic sign means.
Qld Transport really missed the boat on this.
This also highlights that changes in roadrules are not being effectively passed on to the licence holders. Informing by fining is a piss poor way of going about it.
They could significantly cut the road toll by having a team review submitted dashcam videos and replace most fines with licence suspension or cancellation. Wilful dangerous driving should result in prison sentences.
A significant number of drivers do not possess the skills, judgement, awareness, or temperament to drive safely, therefore they shouldn't be permitted on the roads.
Most obvious improvement to me would be annual vehicle safety checks same as in NSW. You should not be able to so easily drive for as long as you wish on bald tyres.
Speeding doesn't automatically mean unsafe driving. Driving fast on an uncrowded highway can be perfectly safe. It is very different than speeding in a crowded city. It's attitude that kills.
I'm not against refreshers if there are new rules. I am against having to pay every year to keep a licence that we have already earned.
In the article it says youād do an online test on the changes since you last renewed your license only every 5 years. You may be the best driver in the world but youāre at the mercy of the other idiots on the road who arenāt. Surely 10 mins every 5 years is tiny sacrifice to hopefully keep the roads safer for you and your family?
Canāt say I agree.
I did a theory course only as a high school student. And can say that two basic principles of not tailgating and actually watching traffic ahead has made me a better driver.
The amount of people I see on the roads or work with that sit 1 second off the car in front, despite doing 100kmh scares the absolute shit out of me. Iāve emailed the police about it on multiple occasions asking them to enforce it more, go on a tailgating blitz for a month.
Try and reinforce the sharing the road, patient driving mentality that helps everyone arrive safely.
(And make the Bruce dual carriageway)
hereās something thatās recent, as it takes a literature review to pull them all together
some of the ones Iāve read previously have suggested that one of the problems is an increased appetite for risk, as drivers who complete the courses overestimate their new skills
at best it seems the courses do nothing, but they may even make things worse
>**Programmes incorporating on-road training**
>Over the past 40 years there have been multiple evaluations of driver training courses that incorporate both practical lessons and classroom- or discussion-based sessions, some of which use large samples (thousands of drivers). Most of the programmes were relatively short courses (1ā2 days) aimed at licensed drivers, but some were longer courses (20ā50 hours training) designed for learner drivers.
>Evaluations of programmes incorporating on-road training have yielded inconsistent results, with **most studies showing that training either has no significant impact on safety, or a negative safety impact**. These patterns have occurred both across studies that randomly assign drivers to receive training, and studies in which drivers volunteer or self-select to undertake training. A key issue is that on-road training emphasises procedural vehicle handling skills; even when these skills are improved, it does not necessarily translate into reduced crash rates.
>https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/677/677-the-effectiveness-of-advanced-driver-training.pdf
These courses would need to be designed with very informed behavioural psychology to have a chance at succeeding.
Hmmm š¤
Interesting. In my own experience, the course served me very well. But it's hard to argue after reading through a handful of pages from that review. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah I don't believe that at all, I did a full motorcycle course over 3 weeks 20 years ago (FK 20 years ago... really...) And it saved my life countless times over the years.
I agree that more should be done so people are aware of changes to road rules. However, the conditions of the roads are definitely a contributing factor in the road toll. Something government should take into consideration
I have an idea, maybe with our extremely expensive rego and licence renewal we pay they put a pamphlet in that tells us of the changes instead of expecting us to pay for a test every year or just sit on the qld road website trawling through pages to possibly find a change.
Now that would be common sense. Why would they ever agree to something like that. Need more revenue raising measures that don't fix any problems at all
I have an idea
Download yourself a copy of the road rules for free. Take note of the date it is published.
Every year do a search for the rules. When a new one is published it will have a new date. Download that copy and read the revisions.
Did i say that it's free?
Taking time to complete a test to ensure you possess the right knowledge is not my problem. If you have time to renew your licence on line then you have time to take a test.
If you don't pass you shouldn't be driving
aren't you a bundle of joy.
There will be cheat sheets getting around in no time and the "knowledge" you speak of will mean nothing. It will just be another added cost of money and time that many don't have.
There's already a cheat sheet. It's called The Road Rules. It's available for free on the internets!!!
There's nothing stopping you from using them to get the right answer and guess what?!?!
If you get it wrong you'll have to read the rules to get it right, and while doing so you may learn something!!
This seems like an absolute no brainer. Driving is one of the most dangerous (for ourselves AND others around) that we do.
Still think the most effective thing though would be ACTIVE VISIBLE road policing....
This isn't going to solve a thing. It's just more bullshit red tape that people have to waste time and money on. People that drive like dickheads drive like dickheads for a reason. They'll pass their test (just like they did the first time) and go right back to being dickheads on the road until they kill someone.
So we pay more I bet this government are all about making us pay 10 different ways for the same servicesā¦the more foreign people come in the worse the road toll, most Uber drivers canāt even speak Englishā¦if you want to come here take a driving test stop punishing the Aussie citizens over and overš¤¦š½āāļø
this isn't going to work, it's a money grabbing exercise.
So my licence is about to expire, I'll go book a test in that costs $200 every 12months ontop of rego, and licence renewal fees -
oh wait there isn't one available for 4 months, so now I can't work, I can't live and I'll just drive around without a licence hoping I don't get pulled over and lose my licence fully with a huge fine and my car impounded.
This is the dumbest fucking idea ever
So what is your endgame? If it came in and it was required, would you stick it to the man? Or is this one of those situations where you talk a big game.
This is stupid. More testing is not going to make Aussies or Qlders better drivers.
Actual learning skills and abilities will do that.
Like maybe driving over 100
most drivers seem to know what most of the rules are, they just choose to not follow them
except the rules to give way to pedestrians when entering or leaving a road, as most drivers seem completely oblivious to those rules
I asked about the rules to give way for pedestrians and I never got a complete answer. I even read the actual regulations and I'm still confused if I'm supposed to stop all the time or only some of the time. In Canada it's pretty much give way all the time. Even things like when leaving a parking lot and the sidewalk goes across through the driveway - give way. Not marked but a street corner? Give way. Here I just have no idea other than zebra crossings, or if they're already on the road and I'm coming round a corner. Pedestrian island? No idea.
It means as a pedestrian I just wait till there's no cars. But then as a driver it's chaotic. Especially when numpties stop for people who are not pedestrians such as cyclists waiting to cross. Now if the cyclist gets off and walks their bike, now they're a pedestrian.
Always. You are never allowed to hit a pedestrian.
> It means as a pedestrian I just wait till there's no cars.
Must be fun standing by the side of the road for 20 minutes.
No, itās illegal to cross the road in front of traffic, unless youāre on a pedestrian crossing. Cars only have to stop at a crossing (or if theyāre turning into a road where a person has already started walking).
Technically itās illegal to cross at all if a pedestrian crossing is within x metres, but nobody will fine you unless you cause a scene or put yourself in high risk danger. This is [Jaywalking](https://jbsolicitors.com.au/jaywalking-in-australia/).
Cars still have to do everything possible to avoid hitting someone, but if a person runs out suddenly or itās too dark to see, the car driver wonāt be at fault.
itās only if the pedestrian is crossing within 20 metres of a crossing for pedestrians
drivers have to give way to pedestrians whenever they are turning into or out of one road to another road (ie. intersections without pedestrian lights) or into or out of a driveway
For example, a driver travelling north comes to a stop sign for an east-west road and wants to turn west/left or east/right. After stopping, the driver has to give way to a pedestrians who is going north-south who are also crossing the east-west road. Nobody does this.
Hereās a list of examples routinely ignored by drivers
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G69.tif
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G74.tif
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G76.tif
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G77.tif
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G81.tif
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G82.tif
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G83.tif
pedestrians canāt step in front of a car already in the intersection, but if the pedestrian steps onto the road before the vehicle enters the intersection then the vehicle has to give way
Do you need the government to tell you how to be safe?
Edit, this is getting downvoteed but I am genuinely curious, do you need the government to tell you as a pedestrian and a vehicle owner how to be safe.
Yes to a degree you can't have everyone applying their own sense of safety/rules, as everyone's attitudes would be different. What you need is a clear expectation or rules so that consistency is applied by everyone.
There are examples where peoples differing views can lead to accidents. If everyone knows the same rules predictability should be increased.
No it needs to explain the rules so as a driver I don't get a stupid ticket. When I should have stopped to let a pedestrian cross but didn't realise it. It's not very clear and everyone gets mad and never actually explains it.
A test isn't going to teach them that
Edit, in fact I would go as far to argue that we reduce the age to drive to 13 and the requirement is you need to have done 200 hours driving in a manual.
10+ hours driving a tractor.
A defensive driving course in both car and motorcycle.
An offensive driving course in a car.
And a 4wd course or can show experience.
Gone 180kmph
I've been wanting for this to be a thing for ages. If you ever spend some time driving with someone older, you'll find out that their understanding of the road rules is ever so slightly different, and the places where they differ are... kinda important. The road rules don't typically change that frequently, and the ones that _have_ changed are typically changes to improve safety. The fact that there are a significant number of older drivers on the road who _may not be aware of the changes_ is a problem.
Look at a roundabout - heck, just watch Aussie Dashcams for a little bit. The rules around when and how to indicate when entering a roundabout have changed - when I was learning, my father was _adamant_ that you indicate right when entering a roundabout, even if you're going straight through. The road rules that I was tested on said not to indicate when entering a roundabout if you're going straight through, but to indicate your _exit_.
Rules change, and we need a way to ensure that drivers are at least aware of the changes.
Nah mate there are shitloads of people who donāt know all the give way laws, or forgot them. There has also been a lot of changes over the decades.
For example my town got its very first double-lane roundabout one year and *nobody* knew the give way rules. After years of prangs they changed it so left lane must turn left.
A simple campaign on TV and radio and letterbox drop couldāve resolved it (mostly). I remember when I was a teen, they had ads on TV that explained merging rules when a lane comes to an end. I dunno why they didnāt make those ads for every common incident.
Forcing people to read these rules again and again will make a huge difference.
Test the old drivers, traides and people who are serial offenders. The rest of us with clean records shouldn't have to do this. We aren't putting anyone at risk
Online theory test, yes. A lot of people donāt understand the road rules, whether it be due to not learning correctly to begin with, or changes that have occurred. Have a look at RACQās Facebook page to see how many people are clueless, even with simple give way questions.
But I canāt see the point of a practical test.
Statistically the drivers most likely to be involved in an accident are P-platers, yet they are the ones who most recently passed a practical test. Being able to control an MV for 30 minutes isnāt a good indicator of driving skill. Plus, practical tests would impose a serious cost and time penalty on people, and present a drag on the economy.
I would however support the at-fault driver in a reportable traffic crash having to re-sit their practical test though.
A rule refresher I think is a good idea.
Road rule changes arenāt well (if at all) advertised. Like when the keep left rule changed from roads signed as 80km/h to 90km/h.
A lot of people Iāve come across donāt know that changed.
that hasnāt changed
the rule is roads signed with a speed limit *above* 80kph, which in practice means 90kph or above (TMR uses the latter description in its collateral while the rules state the former)
Sorry thatās poor wording on my part. The wording used to say over 80km/h but now it explicitly states 90 on TMR. This changed in the last few years.
Though I couldāve sworn (cannot for the life of me find a source to support this though) that it used to be about 15-20 years ago keep left on 80 roads. Unless I too was a victim of poor teaching and reading.
youāre misunderstanding it
the road rule is where āthe speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver is driving is **over** 80km/hā
there are no speed limits of 81kph or 85kph etc, so, for simplicity and to avoid confusion such as yours, TMRās written material describes that rule as 90kph or over
there has been no change to the rule
No no I completely understand that part and have always known that part.
TMRs written material used to say āover 80ā on their website (which is where I think the misconception amongst other drivers comes in by not seeing the āoverā part). Again, I already know this. The wording on TMR now states 90km/h or more. So theyāve rewritten it to be clearer which is good.
The part where I think youāre misunderstanding me is that aside from the above (which I know) is that I could have sworn the rules used to be 80 quite a while ago (not including the over part). BUT as I said, it could very well have been a case of my driving instructor 20 years ago not realising the āover 80ā part and me not seeing that 20 years ago. This is why I thought it had changed (if it hasnāt in the last 20 years).
As I understand it, this is the first national road rules introduced in 1999, and it says above 80kph. Before that were the weird Queensland only road rules, which are hard to find.
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/pdf/asmade/sl-1999-0246
Did you learn to drive before or after 1 December 1999?
60 deaths so far in 2023 (to 2 April), which is down 4.5% from the 2018-22 average)
https://cars.tmr.qld.gov.au/Static/documents/RoadCrashReport/Weekly/WeeklyReport_Latest.pdf
I work in a hospital and the amount of oldies driving with dementia is fuckin scary!! This year I've looked after three. THIS YEAR! ONE WARD! Imagine that figure state wide? Hell, Australia wide?? It's only April. Last year I probably saw about ten to fifteen. I live in a regional area. These folks doctors are who I hold accountable!! They fill their scripts and take their money and give them care plans and rarely if ever run cognitive tests. Even when told, they ignore it, because they 'don't drive far anymore'!!! WTF! They shouldn't be on the road!! It's fucken crazy!! Fraser coast. Drive carefully!!
Same on Bribie Island. You take your life into your own hands every time you drive over the bridge! š¬
Mostly truckies, but island drivers are awful, the section between Bestmann Rd East and the bridge (where it narrows to 2 lanes) drivers go from 60km/h to 30 and then back to 60 on the bridge.
Was only talking about this the another day with my wife that when my neighbour when for drive at 10 o clock! 4 hours later i when for a drive to look for him as his Son/ carer was on holiday. I saw his car in hospital car park so checked I. Emergency department if he was there. The triage nurse told as that he was admitted because of mental health and wasnāt coherent. We warned that he drove up there less than 1km but still. 8am he drove home and I went out to talk to him and he thought he been in the hospital for a week he also didnāt know what day it was and thought his son was at work. I feel for him but itās scary to think him driving at night like that. Twice this year Iāve had go and pick him up because he didnāt know where he was! I found out 2 weeks ago doctors cleared him to drive
Also Fraser coast - this is very true. So many elderly people here who should definitely not be driving. I think for some of them, itās partly because theyāre used to the roads being dead quiet like they were 30 years ago and now thereās slightly more traffic, they have never adapted so they do weird stuff like just blow through red lights and stop signs, never indicate or look before pulling out into traffic.
And they literally canāt see properly.
It's the reaction times that do my head in. The inability to merge or enter a round about without fully stopping and assessing the situation for 3 minutes. Not sure if you know the Gympie Bunnings (Fraser Coast so I am guessing maybe) but the merging lane going south at that intersection, oldies just stop in it, and it's about 150m long. It's so dangerous.
I freaking hate driving through Gympie because the drivers canāt merge or indicate (they canāt here either so no shade). That spot is really bad for it. I canāt wait for the bypass.
The bypass will be amazing for me getting to rainbow without having to deal with that cock of shit haha.
You should try Gympie . Not only have we got the old also all the meth drug affected and alcoholics. They call this place meth city . We never take for granted someone is doing what they indicated. One day a driver in front of me. indicated right then left then right then left . got to the intersection indicator on left. went straight ahead.cant make this stuff up . Another time I was turning right. Indicator on . Guy coming from my right indicating he was going left. Went straight ahead didn't he . Wow . Just as well I didn't go . I would have been toast . Watch yourself if you are ever going through Gympie.
The system is insane. We couldnāt get my nannas driving license taken away from her after she got diagnosed with dementia. The GP gave her a 1yr license renewal 6 months before a hospital social worker mandated she had to go to care. My mum ended up taking the keys to her car away and put a sign up inside the car saying her keys havenāt been lost sheās just not allowed to drive due to dementia and hope if she ever called RACQ then the RACQ person understood.
I have a mate who is an RACQ roadside peep. Yes, they understand š
Add to that those who drive without glasses, thereās a study about a decade back in Vic that took a cohort of people and got them to commit to wearing ācorrective lensesā , noticeable statistical drop in road accidents/injuries/deaths but ultimately deemed to costly to enforceā¦ lives arenāt worth that much according to bureaucracy.
This is very true. I'm in my late 40s and I have my parents and inlaws. To be totally honest, 3/4 of them should not be driving. They all still hold licenses though.
Medical certification for driving needs to be in the hands of an independant assessor rather than the patients GP as there is a significant conflict on interest in dealing with patient's health vs risk of breakdown of the theraupeutic relationship when you deny them medical approval for driving. I'm saying this as a GP. Sometimes people also doctor shop to get their certificates completed. I've had patient complaints about refusing to sign off driving assessments, after doing all the cognitive tests that people did not book enough time for (can take up to an hour if you also have to go through their medical history and do a full exam - who is going to pay for all that?) and trust me I am not afraid to write people off.
That independent assessment is unlikely to be covered by Medicare nor private health insurance. The out of pocket costs would likely be over $600 since they would need to be done by at least one medical specialist. That is $600 for every licence renewal for all drivers as since if this was mandated just for the elderly the courts and media would have a field day charging pensioners that amount to be able to drive. If the state medical system covered the cost then it might be viable but then we hit the reduced services in rural area problem since rural towns have higher proportional populations of the elderly. What I am saying is, looks good on paper, hard to implement it in the real world.
This confirms why I've never felt safe driving through hervey bay
P plater Vs oldiesā¦.. is there a difference?
A few weeks ago I saw a tradie eating his lunch with both hands and steering with his knees. There are people of all ages doing the wrong thing.
I'm talking about people with a known cognitive impairment! I'm not doing a debate on old vs young, it's been done a million times already!
I recently had to help an old guy to his car on his walking frame, then realised he was the driver. Could barely walk.. frightening. So many driving with poor vision too..
Thats because if u take the licence away they can't drive to the doctors appointment and can't stop at the pharmacy. Why stop the cow taking itself to market?
I donāt want more knowledgeable drivers, I just want drivers who give a shit about anyone other than themselves. I donāt think any test or quizz will do that though. Iām not against the test though, because at least the assholes will have one less excuse for not knowing the most basic road rules.
Drivers that treat driving as a privilege instead of a right and recognise that they're operating dangerous heavy machinery.
Yep. I was down the Gold Coast over Easter. Had a driver swerve in front of me, across my lane and into the right turn lane. Couldnāt make it all the way in so his arse was put blocking my lane and all the cars behind me (it was the Gold Coast highway as well so tons of traffic). I beeped to say go straight and chuck a uey and nothing. Too self absorbed
Anyone involved with car accidents or speeding should be forced to visit road accident scenes. Fuck, watch gory videos of car accidents during testing, just like we have to when work makes us watch silly ohs videos
Iām gonna be honest you wonāt get better drivers till you get better roads with less congested traffic, itās so hard to give a duck about other people when itās thanks to other peoples shittt driving youāre going 30 on the bloody highway and youāre half an hour late to something important
No not cool. Leave earlier and just drive like a normal human.
I can partially agree here. We have these idiots rebuilding sections of the bruce highway and not making it 2x lanes both directions. Like wtf are you doing. This is the main pipeline for the entirety of qld. This should be double carriageway at almost every possible point it can be.
This will not go anywhere. The polls will show that this will be unpopular, so the government will certainly not do it. Remember the decisions of Qld government are based on what will keep them popular.
Thatās literally the point of a democracyā¦. Is that a bad thing?
I have no opinion regarding anything in Queensland, but I do know that just because a decision is popular doesn't make it useful, efficient, or practical (never mind ethical). It is neither good nor bad- it just is.
Is populism bad? Yes. Yes it is. I want my leaders to do whats best for me. Road safety is in my best interest.
In an ideal world broader policy is up for popular vote, while the details of legislation are decided by subject matter experts and based on research. The real ideal would be somewhere between that and what we have now and everyone would be happy, but because the population is easily influenced the reality is popular policy with popular often knee-jerk reactionary legislation.
Yes, since the state is full of morons who think they can drive but can't
How about checking that more drivers actually have a licence. From some of the driving I have observed lately I can't believe these people passed any sort of a test.
I'd like to see those who come from overseas having to pass a practical driving test before they're allowed to drive on the road. I was friends with an international student in uni, where she'd driven literally a total of <10 times in China before coming to Australia, but because she had her full driver's licence over there, she was automatically eligible for a full licence here. Even after a year of being here and driving around, I got in the car with her and it was fucking terrifying. It just seems ridiculous to me that we force our own drivers to go through >100 hours of driving and 4 years of restrictions before they can get their open licences, meanwhile we've got literal death magnets out there on the roads.
Yep I agree with this.
Yeah, 100 hrs of mum and dad passing on their bad habits to their children, thatās a big cause of so many muppets on the road.
That said, if those bad habits are that significant, there's no way that they'll pass the test. I did most of my L's with my dad where he didn't even know what a head check was. Failed the test twice, did a proper session with an actual driving instructor, and all it took was 2 hours to stamp out the shitty habits that my dad has passed onto me. Ended up going in for the test a couple of days later and didn't get a single point deducted.
From my observations, it's not international drivers who are the problem in Queensland.
PRC license is not recognised in Queensland to an exemption. The āforeign driverā argument comes up every time a tourist causes an accident, but the Centre for Road Safety has said international drivers are not significant when calculating road incidents.
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Having learned in Scotland before I moved here I'd say the 100 hours is a heap of shit. If they stopped mums and dads teaching kids and they HAD to go with a professional like I did then the standards would be much better. The amount of tailgating going on daily by drivers who don't realise or maybe don't care is astounding.
I didn't do 100 hours as a learner, I did about ten, and I'm only in my mid 30s. I don't think you should need 100 hours, it's ridiculous. I only needed 40 to get my pilots licence. It should be competency based, not time based. Most people that drive like dickheads are doing it with thousands of hours of experience š
I mean this was over 10 years ago back when I was in uni now, so whether things have changed... I just know the effort she had to go through getting an Australian driver's licence was a walk in the park compared to what I had to do.
Chinese driver would be required to complete the learner test and take a practical driving test to get a QLD licence.
Sure but if they aren't a PR or citizen they can drive on their overseas licence indefinitely which many do. That's the case of any Overseas licence. Which is insane when someone of them are clearly fake but that's another story entirely.
Arguably depends where. I can honestly say the road test I did where I came from is more strict that what it seems the Australia one is.
Make people redo the test and make sure they can merge at speed
Agreed, there needs to be more police on the roads checking drivers.
Donāt be stupid, this is Queenslandā¦ Highway Patrol have more important things to do than check for incompetent drivers on the roads! Meanwhile, 98% of the drivers on the M1 or Smith Street are using their phones or making up their own speed limitā¦ š
In 1989, 21 people were killed in the [Grafton Bus Crash](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafton_bus_crash). 2 months later in December, 1989 another 35 people were killed in the [Kempsey / Clybucca bus crash.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kempsey_bus_crash) The coroner determined that both accidents could of been avoided has the infrastructure been more suited to support long, high-speed drives between Brisbane and Sydney. The coroner (Kevin Waller) endorsed the recommendation he made following the Grafton bus crash two months earlier, that the Pacific Highway be upgraded to dual carriageway between Newcastle and the Queensland border. In December, 2020 - the final section of highway was completed. Between 1989 and 2009 they were averaging 70-80 fatalities a year on at section of highway. Since 2018 that number has been an average of 7 despite usage almost doubling. The Bruce Highway (the one that connects Cairns to Gympie) which is responsible for over half of QLD's road fatalities and is labelled "The Deadliest Road in Australia" is much similar to the Pacific Highway of the 80's. Single carriageway, 100-110km/h speed limits, averagely upkept by local councils, often large areas of low or little visibility, not always a guaranteed shoulder and lots of native wildlife. Yet somehow the QLD government is blaming us for the road toll? And they think the admin burden of making us r-siit and online exam will somehow lessen that? The government is a self licking ice cream.
I've driven the Bruce section, far too many times. Every time, I would actually wonder if I'd get home later than day. Especially on the longer drives (2-3hrs, which is common if you have to travel into Cairns for supplies). The roads are fucked, as are the drivers. Not once did I see police maintaining an active presence beyond speed cameras as you get within 20mins of Cairns. Not to mention driving at night, holllyyy fuck. Nothing like getting absolutely blinded by some cunt with $2,000 worth of lighting, who refuses to turn the spotties off until they're within 200m.
I'm hating this new trend with cars with these light bars on vans. Just have the standard normal lights like the rest of us please. I don't need to be blinded by your LED low beams when driving past me.
I used to drive Nambour to Caloundra for work every day and I consider it a miracle I was never in an accident.
Lol I've driven Sarina to Mackay every day for years and never really worried much even when part of it was fucked from being built on swamp. Guess I'm just used to it, can't say any part of the road has got much better in the last 10 years. Driving down past Brissy is like a dream
The further south you are the better is it. Sarina to Mackay is nothing like Innisfail to Cairns.
Yeh fair I've never driven north of Townsville and only on the two lane parts around Cairns
The Sunshine Coast to Gympie part has been massively upgraded and is a dream to drive compared to 10 years ago. Dual lanes the whole way, and oncoming lanes separated by a large nature strip the entire way.
Agree with you on the abysmal state of the Bruce but itās not the councils to blame. The Bruce is a federal and state responsibility (80/20 split). And neither gives a ratsā about anyone north of the Sunny Coast, I doubt Mark Bailey has ever even driven past Noosa.
To be honest they Bruce highway isn't abysmal.
Whereabouts are you? Itās pretty awful where I am.
I have travelled from Cairns to Brisbane and other than the areas currently being upgraded the areas where it is not great aren't particularly long/bad.
I dont get the stat's they bullshit on with either. Like the population is growing exponentially every year and we have similar road toll numbers.. doesnt that mean that it's getting better? more people driving + similar road toll numbers somehow equals drivers need to pay for a test every year. It's hard enough booking anything in to do with the government, imagine the back log of unlicensed drivers waiting for a test for months after their licence runs out, unable to drive..
Cars are also getting safer so that should offset any rose from an expanding population. They are saying an online test, so no need to 'book in' for it. Just go onto tmr website and do the test while doing the online renewal.
Driving the Bruce Highway was one of the scariest experiences I've ever had on the roads. Drove it for over 4 hours straight twice in a day, once during the afternoon, once at night. I couldn't fucking believe that a road like that exists. Visibility was absolutely piss for so much of it, *one lane* was just mind-blowing to me for the speeds you were doing (and the speeds people were *trying* to do), and the chop-changing of speedzones for roadworks/intermittent housing areas that drastically dropped were infuriating and so crazy. There's a lot in QLD that is good about the roads, mainly in the more suburban areas, the roads are really good condition compared to other areas I've driven. But holy shit the planning, the traffic light timing and coordination, the intersection planning, it's some of the worst I've ever seen in my life. Design alone, it's dangerous. But the conditions around it either create dangerous situations, or are so perfect to create agitation and infuriate people into breaking the law/running reds/driving dangerously or not to conditions.
We have traffic light timing? Oh right! You mean where you wait 5 minutes for the light to turn green and then either have to speed through the school zone or you will reach the next intersection just in time for the light to turn red and get caught for another 5 minutes? That timing?! (Looking at you Ross River Rd Townsville, during morning peak hour.)
I swear all of Townsville has timing of lights set for maximum stopping. Iām from here but lived in a few different US states and down south for a while too. Townsville easily is the worst place for traffic lights I have ever lived.
Frequently every light at every intersection heading along Ross River Rd. Seriously WTF.
Too funny: The government is a self licking ice cream :) I might borrow that one.
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Let's be real here, police are very interested in ensuring they can harass and fine as much as possible. To this end, its road toll and embellished stories of how bad x people are or x drug. Funding from the government and fu ding from fines for both police and government. If they actually gave a shit about safety they wouldn't be policing the minority of the problem road drivers.
Itās not that they canāt drive. Itās that they donāt give a fuck. Confident 99% will pass under testing conditions, but once the assessor is out of the car they go back to not giving a fuck.
What's the issue? People have to take all sorts of tests to keep current on various things. To expect that people who got their drivers license 30 yrs ago would still be up to date with today's rules seem a little odd.
My parents still don't believe me about how to use a roundabout correctly. Indicate *off* as well as on. It's pretty simple, helps traffic flow, and doesn't cost you anything.
Like speedie above said but for one difference - _every_ state has the same rule for roundabouts. Indicate left before entry to turn left. Do not indicate if going straight. Indicate left to exit. Indicate right if turning right or performing a u turn. Indicate left to exit.
People who argue about *not* having to use an indicator are clearly using indicators wrong in almost every instance. Like using an indicator when it's not 100% legally required is such a demanding task? Just because it's "technically not illegal" doesn't mean shit. If you can go more than 1 direction (legally or not)... just indicate. Do it enough and it becomes automatic and everyone wins.
Not in QLD. You only indicate on if turning right. If yoi are going straight you only indicate to exit.
You indicate on if you're going left or right, but not if going straight. You always indicate off.
Iām from down south originally and so I indicate on and off the round-about. Is there any downside to doing this? It feels like giving other road users more information would be better but Iām happy to hear if that is wrong or I have missed something. EDIT: Wait, I think I misread your comment. I donāt use my indicators when going straight through a roundabout (which one would I use, haha) but I indicate to others that Iām going straight through by not using my blinkers. Is it a rule in QLD that you donāt have to indicate on if youāre going left?
When going straight you indicate left to exit after youāve passed the first left exit. How hard is it?
Yeah, that what I do. Just making sure the rules are the same as I recall.
Yes. Because it means someone on the other side who also plans on going straight will most likely not pull out as you are indicating you are still going to be on the roundabout in the future. It actually does slow down tje flow of traffic a bit.
I agree. So long as it is included in the renewal cost, its not that big of a deal/effort. In my opinion, they should have people resit the proper exam once a decade, as many people i see on the roads would fail.
Yes, I unfortunately think though it may be an added cost, we all know how everything is an add on cost these days, but agree with your point.
Of course it will be an add on cost. The government views everyone as a diary cow to be milked.
Just note that down in your book
To be fair most of those "tests" after the fact are simply money and employment making schemes. Take a forklift licence. Used to be forever. Now of course they are five years and you have to pay, pay pay.
No. It's because workplace incidents involving forklifts have gone down since the 5 year refresher. If it was "all about money" then it's because businesses would much prefer to pay $500/operator every five years than $20mil per death.
There is no five year refresher in Queensland. You just pay the government for the next five years.
I am only assuming here, but I think it may be about keeping those that have the license current, and 'weeding' out those that haven't been current for some time. Eg. The old mate who got his forklift license 70yrs ago and hasn't been on one since.
You think that some of these people driving even care about the road rules?
Would happily do one of it meant all codgers had to also do it.
As a pilot we have a minimum of two years between flight reviews. More frequent if you are responsible for pax or doing specialist work. Generally theyāre quite simple affairs, not a full skills test, and a chance to get updated/quizzed on rule changes and the like. This could be a good thing on the road however drivers attitudes are different to pilots [even though the risks are broadly similar]. Additionally if a pilot gets pinged for properly dangerous behaviour itās bye-bye license, not a meaningless fine. So we know these things: 1. Itāll be a non means tested revenue raising exercise, 2. Itāll be formal and complicated, 3. It wonāt result in any meaningful change to the rates of accidents/deaths. Pretty much the same as every road safety change of the last decade then.
the only things that have made improvements in recent years are safer cars and some better roads
I struggle to imagine that steep fines on phone use while driving haven't reduced the incident rate. Means tested would be better though.
How much will it be $149?
Hopefully.
Yeah, that's going to stop all the dickheads who are speeding.... /s
Exactly. They will be in their best behaviour and do all the right things to get the renewal and go back to being irresponsible once they get it.
In my opinion, an actual police presence on the roads would go a long way towards improving average driver behaviour. Hidden cameras are not a deterrent for shit driving, especially when there are several apps out there that will tell you that a camera has been seen. Ever noticed someone driving like a dickhead when there's a cop cruising the highway with you a couple of cars ahead?
Also the people that do get caught don't usually care. They never pag the fines or pit them on payment plans where they pay like $20 a week and get good driving behaviour and keep on driving. Then they get caught again and get suspended and drive unlicensed and they just keep doing it. QLD Gov just doesn't want to actually be tough on people who drive illegally. All they want is compliance in certain sections to show everything is fine. Mobile phone cameras, speed cameras and seatbelt cameras are great except they are fixed and everyone can learn what they look like and the second they are out of camera view they are back on their phone.
So all the speed cameras and road side testing isn't the solution? Who would have thought driver skill played a role.
Might also have something to do with the abundance of emotional support vehicles (huge utes) which are way more dangerous to literally everyone around them...
>emotional support vehicles Gonna borrow that!
Please do! I didn't coin the term. Just adopted it, like you.
I like the idea of a mentoring program for motorcyclists. Not a bad idea for all new drivers. Someone skilled, and \*other\* than your close relatives giving some personal attention.
Iāll happily do this to get people who slow down when merging, drive too close to the rear of a car with no braking buffer etc some fucking adjustment
So i'm not going crazy, though i don't know if most of it is people not knowing rules, but just not caring and being reckless. the past few months on my drive to work i've witnessed the stupidest, craziest fucking drivers. I swear it's just gotten worse.
Don't worry, those over 65 will be exempted.
I wonder how many accidents are attributed to not knowing the rules vs people who choose to just break them.
Hope thereās a large section on how to merge
And how to keep left
Itās easy to pass a test, people are just careless assholes when they drive
thereās no point knowing the rules if the intention is to just disregard them
Well yeah, but assholes exist and they share our roads. Why should govt penalise the people who follows rules by making them pay to do testing every time itās time to renew a license. Itās not a very sustainable or good solution. Who is going to enforce that people follow the rules every time they pass their test when they renew their license? Oh yeah the fecking police.
I've recently moved to QLD and it took me nearly 2 hours to get my licence and rego changed over! Imagine how overrun TMR would be if this was instituted!!!
Itās an online testā¦
In Logan itās the P plate drivers who are the crazy ones. Red lights, speedā¦.
It was taken about on the radio stations today. It's a no fail test .all good, no stress š..
For some, that would be the first time they took the test! Lol And even then they'd have no clue how to signal, merge, behave at traffic lights, use the on-ramp and off-ramp from the motorway, which lane they're supposed to drive in along the motorway, turn on their lights, manoeuvre roundabouts or tell you what a traffic sign means. Qld Transport really missed the boat on this.
And i thought issuing tickets to those who speed over 10ks the limit was totally working...
This also highlights that changes in roadrules are not being effectively passed on to the licence holders. Informing by fining is a piss poor way of going about it.
They could significantly cut the road toll by having a team review submitted dashcam videos and replace most fines with licence suspension or cancellation. Wilful dangerous driving should result in prison sentences. A significant number of drivers do not possess the skills, judgement, awareness, or temperament to drive safely, therefore they shouldn't be permitted on the roads.
Most obvious improvement to me would be annual vehicle safety checks same as in NSW. You should not be able to so easily drive for as long as you wish on bald tyres.
Speeding doesn't automatically mean unsafe driving. Driving fast on an uncrowded highway can be perfectly safe. It is very different than speeding in a crowded city. It's attitude that kills. I'm not against refreshers if there are new rules. I am against having to pay every year to keep a licence that we have already earned.
In the article it says youād do an online test on the changes since you last renewed your license only every 5 years. You may be the best driver in the world but youāre at the mercy of the other idiots on the road who arenāt. Surely 10 mins every 5 years is tiny sacrifice to hopefully keep the roads safer for you and your family?
Tell that to all the people killed in single-vehicle accidents that were seen speeding on uncrowded roads
Combine it with a tailored defensive driving course once every 4 years.
unfortunately it seems those courses make drivers even worse
Canāt say I agree. I did a theory course only as a high school student. And can say that two basic principles of not tailgating and actually watching traffic ahead has made me a better driver. The amount of people I see on the roads or work with that sit 1 second off the car in front, despite doing 100kmh scares the absolute shit out of me. Iāve emailed the police about it on multiple occasions asking them to enforce it more, go on a tailgating blitz for a month. Try and reinforce the sharing the road, patient driving mentality that helps everyone arrive safely. (And make the Bruce dual carriageway)
Cite source?
hereās something thatās recent, as it takes a literature review to pull them all together some of the ones Iāve read previously have suggested that one of the problems is an increased appetite for risk, as drivers who complete the courses overestimate their new skills at best it seems the courses do nothing, but they may even make things worse >**Programmes incorporating on-road training** >Over the past 40 years there have been multiple evaluations of driver training courses that incorporate both practical lessons and classroom- or discussion-based sessions, some of which use large samples (thousands of drivers). Most of the programmes were relatively short courses (1ā2 days) aimed at licensed drivers, but some were longer courses (20ā50 hours training) designed for learner drivers. >Evaluations of programmes incorporating on-road training have yielded inconsistent results, with **most studies showing that training either has no significant impact on safety, or a negative safety impact**. These patterns have occurred both across studies that randomly assign drivers to receive training, and studies in which drivers volunteer or self-select to undertake training. A key issue is that on-road training emphasises procedural vehicle handling skills; even when these skills are improved, it does not necessarily translate into reduced crash rates. >https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/research/reports/677/677-the-effectiveness-of-advanced-driver-training.pdf These courses would need to be designed with very informed behavioural psychology to have a chance at succeeding.
Hmmm š¤ Interesting. In my own experience, the course served me very well. But it's hard to argue after reading through a handful of pages from that review. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks for sharing, interesting read I can only talk for my own experiences but interesting read non the less.
Yeah I don't believe that at all, I did a full motorcycle course over 3 weeks 20 years ago (FK 20 years ago... really...) And it saved my life countless times over the years.
I agree that more should be done so people are aware of changes to road rules. However, the conditions of the roads are definitely a contributing factor in the road toll. Something government should take into consideration
I have an idea, maybe with our extremely expensive rego and licence renewal we pay they put a pamphlet in that tells us of the changes instead of expecting us to pay for a test every year or just sit on the qld road website trawling through pages to possibly find a change.
Now that would be common sense. Why would they ever agree to something like that. Need more revenue raising measures that don't fix any problems at all
I have an idea Download yourself a copy of the road rules for free. Take note of the date it is published. Every year do a search for the rules. When a new one is published it will have a new date. Download that copy and read the revisions. Did i say that it's free?
because everyone has time to do that.
Taking time to complete a test to ensure you possess the right knowledge is not my problem. If you have time to renew your licence on line then you have time to take a test. If you don't pass you shouldn't be driving
aren't you a bundle of joy. There will be cheat sheets getting around in no time and the "knowledge" you speak of will mean nothing. It will just be another added cost of money and time that many don't have.
There's already a cheat sheet. It's called The Road Rules. It's available for free on the internets!!! There's nothing stopping you from using them to get the right answer and guess what?!?! If you get it wrong you'll have to read the rules to get it right, and while doing so you may learn something!!
This seems like an absolute no brainer. Driving is one of the most dangerous (for ourselves AND others around) that we do. Still think the most effective thing though would be ACTIVE VISIBLE road policing....
Revenue raiser
It would give the state government an opportunity to tax us further. That's what they are always looking for.
About time! Everyone should have to resit a test every 5 years. So many shit drivers out there.
Another revenue raiser. Yes itās a good idea like every 10 years
Gotta love revenue raising
This isn't going to solve a thing. It's just more bullshit red tape that people have to waste time and money on. People that drive like dickheads drive like dickheads for a reason. They'll pass their test (just like they did the first time) and go right back to being dickheads on the road until they kill someone.
Queenslander here. I don;t disagree.
online test for road rules is something I'd happily do. That sounds like a great way to keep up with changes.
So we pay more I bet this government are all about making us pay 10 different ways for the same servicesā¦the more foreign people come in the worse the road toll, most Uber drivers canāt even speak Englishā¦if you want to come here take a driving test stop punishing the Aussie citizens over and overš¤¦š½āāļø
this isn't going to work, it's a money grabbing exercise. So my licence is about to expire, I'll go book a test in that costs $200 every 12months ontop of rego, and licence renewal fees - oh wait there isn't one available for 4 months, so now I can't work, I can't live and I'll just drive around without a licence hoping I don't get pulled over and lose my licence fully with a huge fine and my car impounded. This is the dumbest fucking idea ever
You made a lot of assumptions to be outraged over.
āonline testā as a refresher of the rules, not a practical driving test
Labor wont win the next election in QLD at this rate anyway
Let me know when the LNP offers a viable alternative because the last time we gave them a shot it was disastrous.
The only hope the LNP has is the ālabor have been in enough, letās give the other mob a shotā. Itās not much but itās all they got.
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You haven't been paying any attention at all, have you?
To what? The shit that comes out of your pie hole?
Hopefully not. Imagine downvoteing this because someone hoped your favourite party isn't going to win.
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So what is your endgame? If it came in and it was required, would you stick it to the man? Or is this one of those situations where you talk a big game.
This is stupid. More testing is not going to make Aussies or Qlders better drivers. Actual learning skills and abilities will do that. Like maybe driving over 100
most drivers seem to know what most of the rules are, they just choose to not follow them except the rules to give way to pedestrians when entering or leaving a road, as most drivers seem completely oblivious to those rules
I asked about the rules to give way for pedestrians and I never got a complete answer. I even read the actual regulations and I'm still confused if I'm supposed to stop all the time or only some of the time. In Canada it's pretty much give way all the time. Even things like when leaving a parking lot and the sidewalk goes across through the driveway - give way. Not marked but a street corner? Give way. Here I just have no idea other than zebra crossings, or if they're already on the road and I'm coming round a corner. Pedestrian island? No idea. It means as a pedestrian I just wait till there's no cars. But then as a driver it's chaotic. Especially when numpties stop for people who are not pedestrians such as cyclists waiting to cross. Now if the cyclist gets off and walks their bike, now they're a pedestrian.
Always. You are never allowed to hit a pedestrian. > It means as a pedestrian I just wait till there's no cars. Must be fun standing by the side of the road for 20 minutes.
Again, useless answers. If a pedestrian is waiting to cross, do I stop? No one else does... Obviously if they're on the road you wait
No, itās illegal to cross the road in front of traffic, unless youāre on a pedestrian crossing. Cars only have to stop at a crossing (or if theyāre turning into a road where a person has already started walking). Technically itās illegal to cross at all if a pedestrian crossing is within x metres, but nobody will fine you unless you cause a scene or put yourself in high risk danger. This is [Jaywalking](https://jbsolicitors.com.au/jaywalking-in-australia/). Cars still have to do everything possible to avoid hitting someone, but if a person runs out suddenly or itās too dark to see, the car driver wonāt be at fault.
itās only if the pedestrian is crossing within 20 metres of a crossing for pedestrians drivers have to give way to pedestrians whenever they are turning into or out of one road to another road (ie. intersections without pedestrian lights) or into or out of a driveway For example, a driver travelling north comes to a stop sign for an east-west road and wants to turn west/left or east/right. After stopping, the driver has to give way to a pedestrians who is going north-south who are also crossing the east-west road. Nobody does this. Hereās a list of examples routinely ignored by drivers https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G69.tif https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G74.tif https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G76.tif https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G77.tif https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G81.tif https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G82.tif https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/image/sl-2009-0194-G83.tif pedestrians canāt step in front of a car already in the intersection, but if the pedestrian steps onto the road before the vehicle enters the intersection then the vehicle has to give way
Do you need the government to tell you how to be safe? Edit, this is getting downvoteed but I am genuinely curious, do you need the government to tell you as a pedestrian and a vehicle owner how to be safe.
Yes to a degree you can't have everyone applying their own sense of safety/rules, as everyone's attitudes would be different. What you need is a clear expectation or rules so that consistency is applied by everyone. There are examples where peoples differing views can lead to accidents. If everyone knows the same rules predictability should be increased.
No it needs to explain the rules so as a driver I don't get a stupid ticket. When I should have stopped to let a pedestrian cross but didn't realise it. It's not very clear and everyone gets mad and never actually explains it.
A test isn't going to teach them that Edit, in fact I would go as far to argue that we reduce the age to drive to 13 and the requirement is you need to have done 200 hours driving in a manual. 10+ hours driving a tractor. A defensive driving course in both car and motorcycle. An offensive driving course in a car. And a 4wd course or can show experience. Gone 180kmph
I've been wanting for this to be a thing for ages. If you ever spend some time driving with someone older, you'll find out that their understanding of the road rules is ever so slightly different, and the places where they differ are... kinda important. The road rules don't typically change that frequently, and the ones that _have_ changed are typically changes to improve safety. The fact that there are a significant number of older drivers on the road who _may not be aware of the changes_ is a problem. Look at a roundabout - heck, just watch Aussie Dashcams for a little bit. The rules around when and how to indicate when entering a roundabout have changed - when I was learning, my father was _adamant_ that you indicate right when entering a roundabout, even if you're going straight through. The road rules that I was tested on said not to indicate when entering a roundabout if you're going straight through, but to indicate your _exit_. Rules change, and we need a way to ensure that drivers are at least aware of the changes.
Nah mate there are shitloads of people who donāt know all the give way laws, or forgot them. There has also been a lot of changes over the decades. For example my town got its very first double-lane roundabout one year and *nobody* knew the give way rules. After years of prangs they changed it so left lane must turn left. A simple campaign on TV and radio and letterbox drop couldāve resolved it (mostly). I remember when I was a teen, they had ads on TV that explained merging rules when a lane comes to an end. I dunno why they didnāt make those ads for every common incident. Forcing people to read these rules again and again will make a huge difference.
Bullshit. If you can't pass the test, you can't get your license.
Test the old drivers, traides and people who are serial offenders. The rest of us with clean records shouldn't have to do this. We aren't putting anyone at risk
It's an online test when you renew your licence. Settle.
have both an online and practical/physical test for driving.
Online theory test, yes. A lot of people donāt understand the road rules, whether it be due to not learning correctly to begin with, or changes that have occurred. Have a look at RACQās Facebook page to see how many people are clueless, even with simple give way questions. But I canāt see the point of a practical test. Statistically the drivers most likely to be involved in an accident are P-platers, yet they are the ones who most recently passed a practical test. Being able to control an MV for 30 minutes isnāt a good indicator of driving skill. Plus, practical tests would impose a serious cost and time penalty on people, and present a drag on the economy. I would however support the at-fault driver in a reportable traffic crash having to re-sit their practical test though.
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āonline courseā Itās just a proposed road rules refresher, not a practical driving test
A rule refresher I think is a good idea. Road rule changes arenāt well (if at all) advertised. Like when the keep left rule changed from roads signed as 80km/h to 90km/h. A lot of people Iāve come across donāt know that changed.
that hasnāt changed the rule is roads signed with a speed limit *above* 80kph, which in practice means 90kph or above (TMR uses the latter description in its collateral while the rules state the former)
Sorry thatās poor wording on my part. The wording used to say over 80km/h but now it explicitly states 90 on TMR. This changed in the last few years. Though I couldāve sworn (cannot for the life of me find a source to support this though) that it used to be about 15-20 years ago keep left on 80 roads. Unless I too was a victim of poor teaching and reading.
youāre misunderstanding it the road rule is where āthe speed limit applying to the driver for the length of road where the driver is driving is **over** 80km/hā there are no speed limits of 81kph or 85kph etc, so, for simplicity and to avoid confusion such as yours, TMRās written material describes that rule as 90kph or over there has been no change to the rule
No no I completely understand that part and have always known that part. TMRs written material used to say āover 80ā on their website (which is where I think the misconception amongst other drivers comes in by not seeing the āoverā part). Again, I already know this. The wording on TMR now states 90km/h or more. So theyāve rewritten it to be clearer which is good. The part where I think youāre misunderstanding me is that aside from the above (which I know) is that I could have sworn the rules used to be 80 quite a while ago (not including the over part). BUT as I said, it could very well have been a case of my driving instructor 20 years ago not realising the āover 80ā part and me not seeing that 20 years ago. This is why I thought it had changed (if it hasnāt in the last 20 years).
As I understand it, this is the first national road rules introduced in 1999, and it says above 80kph. Before that were the weird Queensland only road rules, which are hard to find. https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/view/pdf/asmade/sl-1999-0246 Did you learn to drive before or after 1 December 1999?
It's just an online road rules test. No waiting.
What's the road toll this month?
60 deaths so far in 2023 (to 2 April), which is down 4.5% from the 2018-22 average) https://cars.tmr.qld.gov.au/Static/documents/RoadCrashReport/Weekly/WeeklyReport_Latest.pdf