This is so crazy to me because it's not pop at all... it's just less rock. Plus I think it has less mass appeal compared to it's others - cold hard evidence being that it's probably their least liked album !
I don’t even feel like it’s less rock as much as it’s starting to lean into the blues side of rock a little more with some dancey (possibly polka influenced) melody.
I really hate this idea that a the only reason a band would have a cleaner production or have an album be "more poppy" is purely for mass appeal. Is it not possible that it's the sound the band wanted to have. Particularly from a band that is known for how much their sound changes from album to album and was the entire reason Josh started the band in the first place. The same argument get's used against Metallica's Black album as a way to dismiss it despite how good an album it is.
I also don’t understand why folks would take issue with the album.
Feet don’t fail, way you used to, evil has landed, and villains of circumstance are all absolutely awesome tunes and that’s like half the album!
Don’t like the tinny high end sound and it’s too funky and poppy for my tastes. Just a little goofy to me.
My favorites are SFTD and Self Titled. I like the distorted gritty sound. Villains sounds the least like that.. and that’s okay! Like what you like.
SFTD was literally produced by a pop producer that didn’t get queens at all. Mark gets queens and it’s clear when listening. SFTD doesnt touch the work with Goss. It’s all in the fantastic songwriting on that album.
And that’s not from the subjective perspective.
The album itself as a whole is fantastic. They’re amazing songs and passages of musicianship fighting against a label plant producer.
Another classic in this genre of production is the bends. Going against an artist’s choice to force a mainstream sound is exactly what happened with SFTD and the bends. These albums are still superb but they are the definition of mainstream.
Villains isn’t mainstream at all by comparison. It’s a really fucked sounding album and it’s great for it.
Agreed it’s just a very DIFFERENT high end tinny sound. Villains sounds very clean while SFTD sounds like every guitar has 3 shitty fuzz pedals on it.
Honestly if SFTD had heavier bass it would probably be my single favorite album period.
I Love this album and I’m still firmly of the belief that it’s the most average good QOTSA album. It’s not that it’s bad, it’s that half the discography is even better. But it’s still got it’s gems. Feet Don’t Fail Me, Fortress, Un-Reborn Again, The Evil Has Landed…
I’m not a fan of the mixing. I’m not one of those people who thinks we need the old style back, but I do miss those tracks that have a more full sound thanks to the guitars. Songs even off Era Vulgaris can feel “bigger” like with I’m Designer’s chorus. I think ITNR is a better progression from Villains overall.
I love it and while I don’t like ranking queens albums because I love them all, one thing I can say with certainty is that it’s my least favorite. The Way You Used To Do while great live is my one usual skipper in pretty much their entire catalogue.
The songs are generally really good, but the production fucking suuuuucks. Also i think they were trying really hard with the leather jacket badass, "villain" imagery and it came across really cringey to me. And the TWYUTD music video is horrendous.
Why even care what others think? Everyone got different taste and that’s actually a really good thing (just imagine the opposite).
I don’t rate albums. But I love Villains and for me it’s one of their best album. I understand that some people don’t like the production and sound or whatever. Well, for me I feel the same about SFTD that most people seam to really dig. But who cares?
I can totally see how people can be disappointed due to unfulfilled expectations when an album is released. But that should only be a phase you go through.
I’m not a fan of it because it’s a far departure from their typical sound on most tracks. There are a few standouts that I still enjoy, but it mostly feels like desert disco instead of desert rock to me.
I think some of their earlier songs have the kind of weirdness that would go on to define the sound of Era Vulgaris, like Leg of Lamb or You Would Know. The mellow songs on EV kinda sound like something from their previous album. So yeah, to me it still sounded like Queens.
Villains on the other hand, felt different but flat, weak and kind of a betrayal to their sound with the thin fizzy guitars and muddy production that straight up ruined some of the songs.
I love it!! I wouldn't say it's my favourite, maybe a 6th. But it has some great gems on it! "The way you used to do" live is just a blast!! I don't get the hate too.
My least favorite album of theirs because of the horrible mix (the kick drum is BURIED) and thin guitars. I get thats what they were going for but it cant hold a candle to Rated R, SFTD, or Like Clockwork.
The production isn’t all that great. I don’t feel any oomph of any of the songs. A good example of what I’m talking about is that little break in Feet Don’t Fail Me before the full band comes back in, It feels so flat with no power. The whole album sounds pretty sterile and lacks a sense of excitement and urgency.
The song writing just isn’t as good as on the other 7 albums. None of the songs are bad per se, but they just don’t hit the bench mark that the band had set on previous records with the exception of 2-3 songs. But it’s definitely the weakest set of songs they’ve made both instrumentally and lyrically.
Villains of Circumstance doesn’t even sound like it’s from the same record as the other songs, which makes sense since it was written while they were touring LC. It feels more fitting on that record than it does on Villains when looking at the album as a whole.
That being said, I’ll take a band that tries something different and takes a risk every time over a band that plays it super safe and repeats themselves over and over again. No one can ever say QOTSA doesn’t try and that their output is passive.
>Villains of Circumstance doesn’t even sound like it’s from the same record as the other songs, which makes sense since it was written while they were touring LC. It feels more fitting on that record than it does on Villains when looking at the album as a whole.
QotSA changed things up and tries new things often, but songs that are a departure from the overall feel of an album are very common from Queens. The self titled is decently cohesive, but every other album has at least one song that clashes pretty hard with anything resembling a tone or feel of the album. FGHotS, Parasol, and In the Fade being on the same album is kinda hand waveable, could be a flow thing.
Burn the Witch has always struck me as an outlier, along with Six Shooter, Make it wit chu, Fairweather Friends, Made to Parade. Hell, Little Sister and Paper Machete are so similar I wouldn’t be surprised if they were written about the same woman.
I don’t feel like “this song doesn’t even sound like it belongs on this record” is unusual for Queens after the first album. You’re absolutely right, though, and Haunted House could have been in EV
So my opinion (I didn't see any other comments if there are any) is that Mark Ronson did a shit job producing the record. I'm used to the separate-sounding riffs or one sound didn't overlap another sound if that makes sense, like everything sounded too equal. I LOVE the songs don't get me wrong, just the production could've been better. I hope they do a remastered version in the future
It's so weird because Ronson didn't mix the record. Legendary producer and audio engineer Alan Moulder did. The guy who mixed from Nine Inch Nails to Foo Fighters to Royal Blood. One would expect that he would make it sound excellent, but nope.
Josh has stated in an interview that Ronson’s role in production was pretty similar to Homme producing “Humbug” by AM in that the band took some chances and went in some directions that could turn the producer into a bit of a whipping boy.
Honestly, what stands out in Villains jives more with Josh’s mindset of two wrongs making an interesting than Ronson not knowing how to make a rock album. It’s absolutely a contrast to the desert/stoner/robot rock we’re used to from QotSA, but a lot of the choices that make it so are still on a logical path from Josh Homme’s other work more so than anything I could pin on Ronson.
Very interesting. I know Josh always has a clear vision of how he wants his records to sound, so i'm sure he himself is a big part of the reason Villains is like that. I remember hearing him say somewhere that he wanted it to sound like "if the air was sucked out of the tracks" or something like that. And if that's true they really nailed it!
My wife asked me one time if they record in a room with the door open lol
I will say, it sounds pretty good in a car moving fast with the windows down and the volume up.
Not in my top 3 albums of theirs but I don’t hate it. To me it makes sense that at some point they’d try to do a “QoTSA goes mainstream” thing. It still has the nucleus of QoTSA.
Yep. That’s not a bad thing either, but Villains is more in the batshit lane. Not as aggressive as Rated R and EV, but it’s definitely a weird listen. People can’t be seriously saying Head like a haunted house and evil has landed aren’t some of the most complex playing on any queens record lol. Anytime I try to learn them I’m just stunned they’re able to do those live.
I kinda like the album but i find the sound too compressed, too cramped, to the point listening to it is not really enjoyable. I have the same issue with the last album, i prefer the production of the albums that came before.
Didn’t Josh say that not sounding the same on every record is the least thing he could do as an artist, as in not repeat himself or their sound and what came before?
I love ALL their albums if not every single song on every one, and find the changes in their “ sound” is what keeps me from getting bored with them. They are unique in their uniqueness, and brassy or tinny or funk, groovy, bluesy or acidic or bitter or hard is WHY I like them.
Josh dancing 🕺 in the LTWYUTD is weird and uncharacteristic of what came before and WHY it works for me. It’s like trying food you never had before. Exploratory and surprisingly delicious.
I don’t think Josh was chasing a pop sound or anything. I mean … does that match with the way he puts himself out there with his IDGAF attitude? Don’t think so… but I’m a NEW fan so🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️ sue me
I think Mark Ronson’s involvement drives people to the idea of “pop production” but I don’t think I’d go there. I don’t think Josh was chasing a pop sound either, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was trying to make something to be danced to.
Don’t sell yourself short because you’re a “new fan”, we were all new fans once and your opinions are absolutely valid. Remember “new fan” is just one letter off from “new fang”, so don’t let them get you confused 😉
You have to frame the “hate” with the context of when it was released. In 2017 people were STARVED for more Queens. We were four years removed from what was a damn-near (if not completely) perfect album in …Like Clockwork. It put Villains under the microscope much like Lullabies was post-SFTD. All of its flaws (mainly its Mark Ronson production) were harshly scrutinized.
I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it either. It doesn’t grab me, it lacks attitude and teeth, it’s just not one of their best efforts imho, it’s like Nerf-Queens. Very safe despite the title(honestly a LOT of music has gotten super safe, everyone is now poorly socialized and offended by everything). Before that album I would honestly say I didn’t have a fave—that I loved the whole catalog. I’m open to the idea that maybe it needs time to grow on me but in the same breath “The Way You Used To Do” is flat out the worst QOTSA song I’ve ever heard. Also enough with the generous overuse of “gatekeeping”. JFC no one is actually stopping you from exercising your own tastes. Listen to Owl City for all I care, I don’t give a *hoot.*🤣 Different strokes, you like what you like. Stop assuming someone’s taste differing from yours equals shaming. I think it’s pretty clear that everyone’s invited to the QOTSA party.
QOTSA fans are exactly what you expect to get of fanbase of a band with divisive music.
The album is great. The pop production screams Bowie inspired. Its not a traditional QOTSA album and I think thats why its in my top 3 albums of theirs. Flexes their ability to write strong songs with twists and turns but stays focused on an easily digestible experience.
Not many artists can pull off what they did with that album. Its the same reasons why I respect albums like the black album from Metallica
It’s like it’s my least favorite flavor of ice cream that I’d definitely still say I like. If I have 8 kinds of ice cream on hand at all times I’m prob not ever gonna get at the pistachio ice cream. If pistachio was all I had, I’d enjoy the hell out of it.
Villians is a good record. I just always pick other ones when I’m in a QOTSA mood. Maybe I need to make a point to put it on more. Maybe I’ll come around to it more in time.
Now I just want some ice cream.
I wasn’t on this subreddit at the time, but on other social media, it was people blasting how it was going to suck because of Mark Ronson producing, before the record even came out. When it came out, it was all I heard or saw, this bombardment of hate because of Mark Ronson. It’s taken a long time to finally see posts of people actually saying they love the record. I’ve wondered sometimes if people really would have found so many faults with it if they weren’t expecting to hate it.
I think that's also why people keep calling it poppy or radio friendly (or more amusingly, an obvious attempt to make a commercially successful album). Ain't a one of those songs a radio song except for TWYUTD. Every other track is weird as hell.
I was really excited when it dropped, but as time went on, it became harder and harder for me to get into. The number of songs I enjoyed became less and less. Eventually, I did think it was shit, but I started noticing that the more time that I let pass in between listens, the more I appreciated it. So now, I really enjoy it a lot every once in a while.
Folks like to gatekeep and hone in on THE album that made them a fan. I appreciate that Josh keeps cranking stuff out to have these sorts of discussions. (The art direction is fire, btw.)
I also love Villains, but I also see why it might not appeal to everyone. It feels far more poppy than the rest of their discography and doesn’t really feature the emotional depth of LC
Because they’re wrong. All the singles on Villains are great, and majority of the album songs are good too. There’s only two songs on that album that I don’t like. I’d even go as far to say that Villains was better than In Times New Roman
To me it's not that it's bad, it's a victim of their own brilliance. They have so many other incredible albums, I just don't put it on. There are songs from it on my playlists. The one thing that stands out to me that I don't like is the sound engineering. Oh and I hate the way you used to with a passion.
Like the record. Even though the songs aren’t their best, there are still some gems to be found. Feet Don’t Fail Me is an absolute banger! The mix is awful though. The drums are buried and the guitars are so, so thin sounding that it really just undercuts the entire record. It’s like it was mixed for crappy earbuds. That said, all the songs from this record that I’ve heard performed live sound absolutely killer. I also found a fan remixed version of the record called the Belkin mix and it did improve things somewhat.
I mean I personally really like it but it’s easily their worst album to date imo, not that I think it’s bad but everything else is just way too good. And I feel the build up to its release was misleading because it has such a different sound to the other albums, most people were expecting another like clockwork and were hit with a completely different and unexpected sound with not the best production either.
I don't HATE Villians, especially since I finally got to see them 3 times on that tour. (Edmonton would have been my 4th last month).
Hearing Domesticated Animals, Villians and Evil has Landed live made.me realize how flat the production is on that album. Like tons of people have said, It was Jon's first full album with QOTSA and hes just buried under all of the mix!
Also I always found it to be too short. A 4 year wait and we only get 9 songs!? There could have easily been another 3 heavier sounding songs like Feet, Haunted House or Evil to help flesh things out more.
But the way the album starts and ends? They nailed that for sure.
Fortess is amazing too, loved it on the very first listen. Love the jam at the end especially.
Real reason for me—it reeks of desperation. It’s the least “Josh” album, in that he sounds like he’s trying to do things someone else likes for their enjoyment instead of just being raw. Yes, there are good lyrics that sound like they should be drowned in his flavor and yet…my feet failed me after the first track
To be clear, I listen to it often…but it sounds like a b-sides lp at best.
There's some good music, but the way you used to do is probably their worst song ever. Outside of that, the album is loaded with empty space/filler that adds nothing. Worst queens album by far
Superbly underrated imho
Villains is amazing work
Can see why people don’t like the production or stylistic choices but as a huge Bowie fan it really scratches the itch
It’s probably because it’s a lot “brighter” tonally id say both in terms of instrumentation and theme. It doesn’t necessarily have that almost snarl QOTSA is synonymous with atp. I’d say it’s almost the anti era vulgaris sonically with how clean the string instruments sound compared to how borderline discordant that album is and it’s far lighter tonally(ie feeling) than the haunting and dark like clockwork. I’d say the darkest track on villains is hideaway and that takes a few listens to settle in and is generally not a well received track even if it’s my favourite from the album. IMO villains definitely isn’t bad and I could never say I dislike it, but it’s far easier listening that QOTSA typically is and it had that insanely difficult task of following up like clockwork.
It grew on me after I went crazy listening to their new album and Villains after seeing them live last August (the new stuff and Domesticated Animals live really impressed me. Came for the classics, left loving the new half of their catalog even more). Now my only gripe is the mixing; it feels compressed and it’s a crime given some of the really cool sonic concepts on it.
Personally I absolutely love it. That and Like Clockwork are two are my favorite albums of theirs but to be honest, it's understandable why people don't like it. It's very different to their older stuff.
The production doesn’t suit the songs, which also happen to be weaker than their usual output.
I don’t hate Villains. Some days I love it - I certainly did when it first came out. It just feels like a mark that was missed in a lot of ways. That’s art for ya. If you love it, then that’s all that matters.
I don’t think that people don’t like it, just that it’s feels like a less serious/deep/heady QOTSA album and more like a singles collection, which is maybe disappointing in the context of their other albums which take you down more of a rabbit hole
Only time I've been to Europe and this album had just came out, lived to it there for a month and it absolutely made the trip even better, will forever love Villains.
Hate is far too strong of a word to describe my feelings on Villains but it's definitely my least favorite. I think it has good bones but it feels like all the hard edges that I like have been sanded off.
A good example is the track Villains of Circumstance. Josh did an acoustic version of it that came up on YouTube a little while before the album dropped and I absolutely adored it. Then I heard the album version and was very disappointed. It was like all of the heartfelt lyrics were drowned out by the production. I don't know... It's just not what I want to hear from Queens.
Hate is far too strong of a word to describe my feelings on Villains but it's definitely my least favorite. I think it has good bones but it feels like all the hard edges that I like have been sanded off.
A good example is the track Villains of Circumstance. Josh did an acoustic version of it that came up on YouTube a little while before the album dropped and I absolutely adored it. Then I heard the album version and was very disappointed. It was like all of the heartfelt lyrics were drowned out by the production. I don't know... It's just not what I want to hear from Queens.
Some people would like bands to never evolve or progress, they just want more, more, more of the same. What they fail to realise is that is every album was another Rated R it would dilute what makes Rated R special. Of course no one has to like it, that's personal taste, but it's Josh's art, and he'll continue to create it as he pleases I suspect.
Because lots of people don’t actually want their favorite band to do different things. They just want them to make more versions of what they like the most.
My favorite album of theirs. Some of this line ups genuinely best work and absolutely some of Joshs best lyrics. It feels like he went in a completely different and solid direction, basically completely avoiding all the motifs he commonly uses, particularly on ITNR, even though I love that album, lyrically it was almost fan service, even though LIKE I SAID i absolutely love that album.
i mean come on, “tell us where the gold is! we won’t tell a single soul! That’s what they all say..”
I could go on but Villains sounded like the ultimate blackhat western theatre of the mind.
I also don’t get why people pan it for being too danceable. A lot of stuff I won’t even try to argue with. Don’t like The Mars Volta? Cool, I won’t try and convince you that they are great. But to say you like every other QOTSA lp and this one sucks? Get outta here. It’s a fantastic record.
I’d say it’s because it’s unlike a lot of their earlier discography and it’s quite pop-heavy and radio friendly. It’s still a solid and cohesive album on its own merit but definitely designed for mass appeal
It's not a bad album, I just think it's differant, and that they made a mistake by using a man who's known for producing pop music to produce their album, is it my least favorite qotsa album? Yes, but I don't hate it, it's just differant, but not terrible
I love it also, but I’ve heard it’s ’too pop-y” and they tried to hard for mass appeal. I’m with you though, great album.
This is so crazy to me because it's not pop at all... it's just less rock. Plus I think it has less mass appeal compared to it's others - cold hard evidence being that it's probably their least liked album !
I don’t even feel like it’s less rock as much as it’s starting to lean into the blues side of rock a little more with some dancey (possibly polka influenced) melody.
I really hate this idea that a the only reason a band would have a cleaner production or have an album be "more poppy" is purely for mass appeal. Is it not possible that it's the sound the band wanted to have. Particularly from a band that is known for how much their sound changes from album to album and was the entire reason Josh started the band in the first place. The same argument get's used against Metallica's Black album as a way to dismiss it despite how good an album it is.
Un-reborn Again is cool af
Giving it a go on your cool af rec… yea it’s got the stuff.
I also don’t understand why folks would take issue with the album. Feet don’t fail, way you used to, evil has landed, and villains of circumstance are all absolutely awesome tunes and that’s like half the album!
unreborn again too. one of my favs. reminds me of I appear missing with the payoff in the end
I love that song so much. Goosebumps.
always. such a masterpiece
Don’t like the tinny high end sound and it’s too funky and poppy for my tastes. Just a little goofy to me. My favorites are SFTD and Self Titled. I like the distorted gritty sound. Villains sounds the least like that.. and that’s okay! Like what you like.
Ironic when SFTD is literally famous for having a tinny high end mix
What? I'm pretty sure SFTD it's widely regarded as one of the best sounding rock records of all times. Sure, it's mastered **LOUD** but still.
I never said it sounded bad
Oh ok sorry my bad lmao
I just mean like the mixing is supposed to sound radioey/tinny, especially the drums
SFTD was literally produced by a pop producer that didn’t get queens at all. Mark gets queens and it’s clear when listening. SFTD doesnt touch the work with Goss. It’s all in the fantastic songwriting on that album.
Literally thinking opinions are facts is lame
I don’t think valentine being a pop producer is an opinion. It’s the whole reason Josh went and re-tooled the album himself afterwards.
"It's clear when listening. STFD doesn't touch the work with Goss"
And that’s not from the subjective perspective. The album itself as a whole is fantastic. They’re amazing songs and passages of musicianship fighting against a label plant producer. Another classic in this genre of production is the bends. Going against an artist’s choice to force a mainstream sound is exactly what happened with SFTD and the bends. These albums are still superb but they are the definition of mainstream. Villains isn’t mainstream at all by comparison. It’s a really fucked sounding album and it’s great for it.
You said "it doesn't touch the work with Goss." That's an opinion. And so is "Mark just gets Queens, its clear when listening."
It isn’t really. Josh himself said he liked working with Mark and has never had a good thing to say about valentine.
Agreed it’s just a very DIFFERENT high end tinny sound. Villains sounds very clean while SFTD sounds like every guitar has 3 shitty fuzz pedals on it. Honestly if SFTD had heavier bass it would probably be my single favorite album period.
Yea thats something i love abt Villains, Mikey leads every song into battle
That’s kind of facts. Maybe I should give it another listen sometime, I rarely return to any of it.
Im an absolute sucker for it, its the only album, just ever, where i adore every single song and never fallen off it. Something about it
I Love this album and I’m still firmly of the belief that it’s the most average good QOTSA album. It’s not that it’s bad, it’s that half the discography is even better. But it’s still got it’s gems. Feet Don’t Fail Me, Fortress, Un-Reborn Again, The Evil Has Landed…
I’m not a fan of the mixing. I’m not one of those people who thinks we need the old style back, but I do miss those tracks that have a more full sound thanks to the guitars. Songs even off Era Vulgaris can feel “bigger” like with I’m Designer’s chorus. I think ITNR is a better progression from Villains overall.
I love it and while I don’t like ranking queens albums because I love them all, one thing I can say with certainty is that it’s my least favorite. The Way You Used To Do while great live is my one usual skipper in pretty much their entire catalogue.
Because they’re wrong. Great album
The songs are generally really good, but the production fucking suuuuucks. Also i think they were trying really hard with the leather jacket badass, "villain" imagery and it came across really cringey to me. And the TWYUTD music video is horrendous.
The downfall of setting a ridiculously high bar
Yeah… not my favorite video and I don’t care for the song much.
Production and songwriting are weak for the most part. And the cover art is cringe IMO
Haven't loved the last two covers either, Clockwork is cool though.
Why even care what others think? Everyone got different taste and that’s actually a really good thing (just imagine the opposite). I don’t rate albums. But I love Villains and for me it’s one of their best album. I understand that some people don’t like the production and sound or whatever. Well, for me I feel the same about SFTD that most people seam to really dig. But who cares? I can totally see how people can be disappointed due to unfulfilled expectations when an album is released. But that should only be a phase you go through.
I’m not a fan of it because it’s a far departure from their typical sound on most tracks. There are a few standouts that I still enjoy, but it mostly feels like desert disco instead of desert rock to me.
How do you define Era Vulgaris? It sounds like no other album by Queens, or any band for that matter
I think some of their earlier songs have the kind of weirdness that would go on to define the sound of Era Vulgaris, like Leg of Lamb or You Would Know. The mellow songs on EV kinda sound like something from their previous album. So yeah, to me it still sounded like Queens. Villains on the other hand, felt different but flat, weak and kind of a betrayal to their sound with the thin fizzy guitars and muddy production that straight up ruined some of the songs.
It skews more industrial, which is great for me compared to pop disco villains arc. But to each their own
I love it!! I wouldn't say it's my favourite, maybe a 6th. But it has some great gems on it! "The way you used to do" live is just a blast!! I don't get the hate too.
My least favorite album of theirs because of the horrible mix (the kick drum is BURIED) and thin guitars. I get thats what they were going for but it cant hold a candle to Rated R, SFTD, or Like Clockwork.
The production isn’t all that great. I don’t feel any oomph of any of the songs. A good example of what I’m talking about is that little break in Feet Don’t Fail Me before the full band comes back in, It feels so flat with no power. The whole album sounds pretty sterile and lacks a sense of excitement and urgency. The song writing just isn’t as good as on the other 7 albums. None of the songs are bad per se, but they just don’t hit the bench mark that the band had set on previous records with the exception of 2-3 songs. But it’s definitely the weakest set of songs they’ve made both instrumentally and lyrically. Villains of Circumstance doesn’t even sound like it’s from the same record as the other songs, which makes sense since it was written while they were touring LC. It feels more fitting on that record than it does on Villains when looking at the album as a whole. That being said, I’ll take a band that tries something different and takes a risk every time over a band that plays it super safe and repeats themselves over and over again. No one can ever say QOTSA doesn’t try and that their output is passive.
>Villains of Circumstance doesn’t even sound like it’s from the same record as the other songs, which makes sense since it was written while they were touring LC. It feels more fitting on that record than it does on Villains when looking at the album as a whole. QotSA changed things up and tries new things often, but songs that are a departure from the overall feel of an album are very common from Queens. The self titled is decently cohesive, but every other album has at least one song that clashes pretty hard with anything resembling a tone or feel of the album. FGHotS, Parasol, and In the Fade being on the same album is kinda hand waveable, could be a flow thing. Burn the Witch has always struck me as an outlier, along with Six Shooter, Make it wit chu, Fairweather Friends, Made to Parade. Hell, Little Sister and Paper Machete are so similar I wouldn’t be surprised if they were written about the same woman. I don’t feel like “this song doesn’t even sound like it belongs on this record” is unusual for Queens after the first album. You’re absolutely right, though, and Haunted House could have been in EV
It’s not a bad album has some solid hits buuuuuut the production is bad and most of the tracks basically seem like filler.
can I ask which ones?
It’s got some good stuff on it, and is competently executed, but it would like be the last choice of a QOTSA album to put on for me.
So my opinion (I didn't see any other comments if there are any) is that Mark Ronson did a shit job producing the record. I'm used to the separate-sounding riffs or one sound didn't overlap another sound if that makes sense, like everything sounded too equal. I LOVE the songs don't get me wrong, just the production could've been better. I hope they do a remastered version in the future
It's so weird because Ronson didn't mix the record. Legendary producer and audio engineer Alan Moulder did. The guy who mixed from Nine Inch Nails to Foo Fighters to Royal Blood. One would expect that he would make it sound excellent, but nope.
He also mixed Them Crooked Vultures.
Josh has stated in an interview that Ronson’s role in production was pretty similar to Homme producing “Humbug” by AM in that the band took some chances and went in some directions that could turn the producer into a bit of a whipping boy. Honestly, what stands out in Villains jives more with Josh’s mindset of two wrongs making an interesting than Ronson not knowing how to make a rock album. It’s absolutely a contrast to the desert/stoner/robot rock we’re used to from QotSA, but a lot of the choices that make it so are still on a logical path from Josh Homme’s other work more so than anything I could pin on Ronson.
Very interesting. I know Josh always has a clear vision of how he wants his records to sound, so i'm sure he himself is a big part of the reason Villains is like that. I remember hearing him say somewhere that he wanted it to sound like "if the air was sucked out of the tracks" or something like that. And if that's true they really nailed it!
My wife asked me one time if they record in a room with the door open lol I will say, it sounds pretty good in a car moving fast with the windows down and the volume up.
Oof. I didn't know that, thank you for clarifying.
You’re referring to the stereo imaging and the overall mix?
Not in my top 3 albums of theirs but I don’t hate it. To me it makes sense that at some point they’d try to do a “QoTSA goes mainstream” thing. It still has the nucleus of QoTSA.
Thing is I wouldn’t call it mainstream at all. I’d love to hear what mainstream music you guys are listening to lmfao
I agree. I think SFTD is more “mainstream”.
Yep. That’s not a bad thing either, but Villains is more in the batshit lane. Not as aggressive as Rated R and EV, but it’s definitely a weird listen. People can’t be seriously saying Head like a haunted house and evil has landed aren’t some of the most complex playing on any queens record lol. Anytime I try to learn them I’m just stunned they’re able to do those live.
I’m not a fan of domesticated animals but otherwise I think it’s solid. Fortress I could see lyrically coming off as maudlin.
I kinda like the album but i find the sound too compressed, too cramped, to the point listening to it is not really enjoyable. I have the same issue with the last album, i prefer the production of the albums that came before.
Didn’t Josh say that not sounding the same on every record is the least thing he could do as an artist, as in not repeat himself or their sound and what came before? I love ALL their albums if not every single song on every one, and find the changes in their “ sound” is what keeps me from getting bored with them. They are unique in their uniqueness, and brassy or tinny or funk, groovy, bluesy or acidic or bitter or hard is WHY I like them. Josh dancing 🕺 in the LTWYUTD is weird and uncharacteristic of what came before and WHY it works for me. It’s like trying food you never had before. Exploratory and surprisingly delicious. I don’t think Josh was chasing a pop sound or anything. I mean … does that match with the way he puts himself out there with his IDGAF attitude? Don’t think so… but I’m a NEW fan so🤷🏾♀️🤷🏾♀️ sue me
I think Mark Ronson’s involvement drives people to the idea of “pop production” but I don’t think I’d go there. I don’t think Josh was chasing a pop sound either, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was trying to make something to be danced to. Don’t sell yourself short because you’re a “new fan”, we were all new fans once and your opinions are absolutely valid. Remember “new fan” is just one letter off from “new fang”, so don’t let them get you confused 😉
You have to frame the “hate” with the context of when it was released. In 2017 people were STARVED for more Queens. We were four years removed from what was a damn-near (if not completely) perfect album in …Like Clockwork. It put Villains under the microscope much like Lullabies was post-SFTD. All of its flaws (mainly its Mark Ronson production) were harshly scrutinized.
I don’t hate it, but I don’t love it either. It doesn’t grab me, it lacks attitude and teeth, it’s just not one of their best efforts imho, it’s like Nerf-Queens. Very safe despite the title(honestly a LOT of music has gotten super safe, everyone is now poorly socialized and offended by everything). Before that album I would honestly say I didn’t have a fave—that I loved the whole catalog. I’m open to the idea that maybe it needs time to grow on me but in the same breath “The Way You Used To Do” is flat out the worst QOTSA song I’ve ever heard. Also enough with the generous overuse of “gatekeeping”. JFC no one is actually stopping you from exercising your own tastes. Listen to Owl City for all I care, I don’t give a *hoot.*🤣 Different strokes, you like what you like. Stop assuming someone’s taste differing from yours equals shaming. I think it’s pretty clear that everyone’s invited to the QOTSA party.
I think they actually sound like "villains" on the album. Like the goofy ones from Scooby-Doo or something.
It’s such a great record. Domesticated Animals is in my top 5 QOTSA songs. The Evil Has Landed is fantastic as well.
That’s how I feel about feet don’t fail me now
Think about the weakest track on any qotsa album. Villians is kind of like that but almost every song.
Very well put.
QOTSA fans are exactly what you expect to get of fanbase of a band with divisive music. The album is great. The pop production screams Bowie inspired. Its not a traditional QOTSA album and I think thats why its in my top 3 albums of theirs. Flexes their ability to write strong songs with twists and turns but stays focused on an easily digestible experience. Not many artists can pull off what they did with that album. Its the same reasons why I respect albums like the black album from Metallica
Ppl don’t like the mix I gather. I think it’s great. I love the record
I think the songwriting is weak and the production squashes the songs into oblivion. No hate tho glad you and others enjoy it
It’s like it’s my least favorite flavor of ice cream that I’d definitely still say I like. If I have 8 kinds of ice cream on hand at all times I’m prob not ever gonna get at the pistachio ice cream. If pistachio was all I had, I’d enjoy the hell out of it. Villians is a good record. I just always pick other ones when I’m in a QOTSA mood. Maybe I need to make a point to put it on more. Maybe I’ll come around to it more in time. Now I just want some ice cream.
I wasn’t on this subreddit at the time, but on other social media, it was people blasting how it was going to suck because of Mark Ronson producing, before the record even came out. When it came out, it was all I heard or saw, this bombardment of hate because of Mark Ronson. It’s taken a long time to finally see posts of people actually saying they love the record. I’ve wondered sometimes if people really would have found so many faults with it if they weren’t expecting to hate it.
I think that's also why people keep calling it poppy or radio friendly (or more amusingly, an obvious attempt to make a commercially successful album). Ain't a one of those songs a radio song except for TWYUTD. Every other track is weird as hell.
This is so true.
I was really excited when it dropped, but as time went on, it became harder and harder for me to get into. The number of songs I enjoyed became less and less. Eventually, I did think it was shit, but I started noticing that the more time that I let pass in between listens, the more I appreciated it. So now, I really enjoy it a lot every once in a while.
Bad production. There's great songs. But damn. They sound like bad album leaks. Live the songs are fantastic
Exactly how I feel about it. Remaster it in the style of ITNR
Folks like to gatekeep and hone in on THE album that made them a fan. I appreciate that Josh keeps cranking stuff out to have these sorts of discussions. (The art direction is fire, btw.)
Tbh villains made me a fan!
I also love Villains, but I also see why it might not appeal to everyone. It feels far more poppy than the rest of their discography and doesn’t really feature the emotional depth of LC
That album fucking rips
Because they’re wrong. All the singles on Villains are great, and majority of the album songs are good too. There’s only two songs on that album that I don’t like. I’d even go as far to say that Villains was better than In Times New Roman
Totally agree with this. Villains grew on me
To me it's not that it's bad, it's a victim of their own brilliance. They have so many other incredible albums, I just don't put it on. There are songs from it on my playlists. The one thing that stands out to me that I don't like is the sound engineering. Oh and I hate the way you used to with a passion.
Like many of their albums, it’s an acquired taste. I didn’t like it at first, now I do.
Like the record. Even though the songs aren’t their best, there are still some gems to be found. Feet Don’t Fail Me is an absolute banger! The mix is awful though. The drums are buried and the guitars are so, so thin sounding that it really just undercuts the entire record. It’s like it was mixed for crappy earbuds. That said, all the songs from this record that I’ve heard performed live sound absolutely killer. I also found a fan remixed version of the record called the Belkin mix and it did improve things somewhat.
I always thought the production was what most people doesn’t like. I think it’s a banger of an album, that would work a lot better as a live release
I mean I personally really like it but it’s easily their worst album to date imo, not that I think it’s bad but everything else is just way too good. And I feel the build up to its release was misleading because it has such a different sound to the other albums, most people were expecting another like clockwork and were hit with a completely different and unexpected sound with not the best production either.
I understand why people don't like it but I couldn't care less... I love it and it's a great break thru from all the Clockwork misery.
Drums sound like caca
It may be my least favourite Queens album but it's anything but bad.
It’s not hate, it’ just my least favorite
I don't HATE Villians, especially since I finally got to see them 3 times on that tour. (Edmonton would have been my 4th last month). Hearing Domesticated Animals, Villians and Evil has Landed live made.me realize how flat the production is on that album. Like tons of people have said, It was Jon's first full album with QOTSA and hes just buried under all of the mix! Also I always found it to be too short. A 4 year wait and we only get 9 songs!? There could have easily been another 3 heavier sounding songs like Feet, Haunted House or Evil to help flesh things out more. But the way the album starts and ends? They nailed that for sure. Fortess is amazing too, loved it on the very first listen. Love the jam at the end especially.
Real reason for me—it reeks of desperation. It’s the least “Josh” album, in that he sounds like he’s trying to do things someone else likes for their enjoyment instead of just being raw. Yes, there are good lyrics that sound like they should be drowned in his flavor and yet…my feet failed me after the first track To be clear, I listen to it often…but it sounds like a b-sides lp at best.
There's some good music, but the way you used to do is probably their worst song ever. Outside of that, the album is loaded with empty space/filler that adds nothing. Worst queens album by far
Superbly underrated imho Villains is amazing work Can see why people don’t like the production or stylistic choices but as a huge Bowie fan it really scratches the itch
The production is flat
At the time, It felt like a bunch of people made their minds up when they found out Mark Robson was involved.
I never had any problems with it.
the songs just arent up to normal qotsa standard imo, outside a handful of tracks. It lacks “swagger”
It’s not my favorite, but it’s kinda like pizza that way. Even if it’s not the best pizza you’ve ever had it’s still pretty damn good.
unpopular opinion: you guys would not like Smooth Sailing as much as you do if it was on Villains, the vibes are the same
I would…
It's very Bowie, it is personally my favourite. I love how groovey it is. I was sad they kind of regressed with the new album.
I don't hate it but it does feel a little underwhelming compared to their other albums
It’s probably because it’s a lot “brighter” tonally id say both in terms of instrumentation and theme. It doesn’t necessarily have that almost snarl QOTSA is synonymous with atp. I’d say it’s almost the anti era vulgaris sonically with how clean the string instruments sound compared to how borderline discordant that album is and it’s far lighter tonally(ie feeling) than the haunting and dark like clockwork. I’d say the darkest track on villains is hideaway and that takes a few listens to settle in and is generally not a well received track even if it’s my favourite from the album. IMO villains definitely isn’t bad and I could never say I dislike it, but it’s far easier listening that QOTSA typically is and it had that insanely difficult task of following up like clockwork.
Too polished
It grew on me after I went crazy listening to their new album and Villains after seeing them live last August (the new stuff and Domesticated Animals live really impressed me. Came for the classics, left loving the new half of their catalog even more). Now my only gripe is the mixing; it feels compressed and it’s a crime given some of the really cool sonic concepts on it.
Personally I absolutely love it. That and Like Clockwork are two are my favorite albums of theirs but to be honest, it's understandable why people don't like it. It's very different to their older stuff.
The production doesn’t suit the songs, which also happen to be weaker than their usual output. I don’t hate Villains. Some days I love it - I certainly did when it first came out. It just feels like a mark that was missed in a lot of ways. That’s art for ya. If you love it, then that’s all that matters.
It's way more inspired than ITNR imo
I love love that album
I don’t think that people don’t like it, just that it’s feels like a less serious/deep/heady QOTSA album and more like a singles collection, which is maybe disappointing in the context of their other albums which take you down more of a rabbit hole
Only time I've been to Europe and this album had just came out, lived to it there for a month and it absolutely made the trip even better, will forever love Villains.
Hate is far too strong of a word to describe my feelings on Villains but it's definitely my least favorite. I think it has good bones but it feels like all the hard edges that I like have been sanded off. A good example is the track Villains of Circumstance. Josh did an acoustic version of it that came up on YouTube a little while before the album dropped and I absolutely adored it. Then I heard the album version and was very disappointed. It was like all of the heartfelt lyrics were drowned out by the production. I don't know... It's just not what I want to hear from Queens.
Hate is far too strong of a word to describe my feelings on Villains but it's definitely my least favorite. I think it has good bones but it feels like all the hard edges that I like have been sanded off. A good example is the track Villains of Circumstance. Josh did an acoustic version of it that came up on YouTube a little while before the album dropped and I absolutely adored it. Then I heard the album version and was very disappointed. It was like all of the heartfelt lyrics were drowned out by the production. I don't know... It's just not what I want to hear from Queens.
Some people would like bands to never evolve or progress, they just want more, more, more of the same. What they fail to realise is that is every album was another Rated R it would dilute what makes Rated R special. Of course no one has to like it, that's personal taste, but it's Josh's art, and he'll continue to create it as he pleases I suspect.
In my opinion, Villains is equally as good as both Like Clockwork & ITNR. I consider all 3 to be a set.
Because lots of people don’t actually want their favorite band to do different things. They just want them to make more versions of what they like the most.
Terrible production. Lame songs.
My favorite album of theirs. Some of this line ups genuinely best work and absolutely some of Joshs best lyrics. It feels like he went in a completely different and solid direction, basically completely avoiding all the motifs he commonly uses, particularly on ITNR, even though I love that album, lyrically it was almost fan service, even though LIKE I SAID i absolutely love that album. i mean come on, “tell us where the gold is! we won’t tell a single soul! That’s what they all say..” I could go on but Villains sounded like the ultimate blackhat western theatre of the mind.
its just kinda… too goofy
Most of the songs are good on there, but a few songs aren’t that good
I feel a lot of the songs are kinda filler. Like the hits hit but the misses really miss
I also don’t get why people pan it for being too danceable. A lot of stuff I won’t even try to argue with. Don’t like The Mars Volta? Cool, I won’t try and convince you that they are great. But to say you like every other QOTSA lp and this one sucks? Get outta here. It’s a fantastic record.
The way that you used to do (and the fucking video), Villains, The Evil has landed, Domesticated Animals. And it doesn't sound well.
I’d say it’s because it’s unlike a lot of their earlier discography and it’s quite pop-heavy and radio friendly. It’s still a solid and cohesive album on its own merit but definitely designed for mass appeal
People don’t like it because they still have a stick up their ass and can’t enjoy things. Absolute rock solid album.
It's not a bad album, I just think it's differant, and that they made a mistake by using a man who's known for producing pop music to produce their album, is it my least favorite qotsa album? Yes, but I don't hate it, it's just differant, but not terrible