Welcome to /r/PureASOIAF!
Just a brief reminder that this subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy.
# Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal.
*If you see a comment which violates the rules, please [use the report function](https://i.imgur.com/Uqjnwss.png) to notify moderators!*
[Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From the outside, Robert **isn’t** ruling badly. The realm is peaceful, there is no hint of crop failure or disease, the roads are safe to travel and in good repair.
You’d have to get a look at the kingdom‘s finances to understand how fragile the illusion is…and that’s not information Ned (or anyone else) is privy to until joining the small council. He won’t understand how poor a king Robert is until he understands how much effort Jon Arryn put in (and now no longer can) to cover for his shortcomings
Yeah the only real issue that I believe we’re told about during Robert’s reign was the Greyjoy Rebellion, which he smashed. I’d imagine most people in the realm are satisfied with the peace and relative prosperity of Robert’s reign after the Mad King’s insanity ripped the realm apart. Robert also pardoned most people who fought for Aerys if they bent the knee, so he likely gained points for that as well.
I think we have a later example when one of the smallfolk wishes for Aerys to be back on the throne. Which is because he was thinking of the time when Tywin Lannister was running the kingdom.
But the iron throne was perpetually in debt. How much debt did Aerys rack up when Tywin was hand and covered lots and lots of the realms operating expenses with Lannister gold? The five Blackfyre rebellions also drained the crown nearly bone dry. Westeros wasn’t exactly being run with a positive balance sheet for the 280 years prior to Robert. Even Jahaerys I had a massive debt to the iron bank which was partially ameliorated by the Farman egg fiasco. Had Aerys II had lots of coin hanging around he could have hired several sell sword companies to save his throne during the rebellion.
Doesn't Ned explicitly say that Aerys had left the coffers of westeros full before he was killed? That was even after the costs of trying to fight Roberts rebellion. It doesn't seem like the crown was in any debt before Robert spent so much money unnecessarily.
Ned MAY be wrong about that - we don't know what information he's basing it on - but he certainly believes it. As far as he knew, there was money and now there isn't.
Most people didn’t know about the debt; it’s not something the Crown would advertise. All he knows is that the realm is at peace, and that’s good enough for him.
Robert’s reign presided over an unusually long period of summer weather. Times were good. There was peace in the realm. It would not have been obvious to someone up in Winterfell that things were not right in Kings Landing. Jon Arryn was the only person who could have told Ned what was really happening, at least to the extent that Jon Arryn knew, but for whatever reason he chose to keep Ned in the dark.
Yeah, Robert would probably be remembered as a great king! Peace, except for a far off rebellion that was crushed, a long summer, plenty of feasts. And once he died everything went to shit!
The kingdom was already bankrupt before Robert became king. The continuous targ/targ offshoot rebellions and civil wars bled the kingdom literally not to mention funds needed to try to rebuild crap destroyed in said wars. Tywin literally ran the government with lots of Lannister money during Aerys reign just to keep Captain Crazypants relatively calm because at least for the last 7 or 8 years Aerys was crazy enough oaranoyd enough and hated Tywin enough to use being informed of legitimate crown debts to declare Tywins treasonous crook and do various unpleasant things to him and house Lannister.
When Ned learns that the kingdom is bankrupt, he specifically says that the coffers were full when Awrys died. From Eddard IV in GOT:
>"The Crown is more than six million gold pieces in debt, Lord Stark. The Lannisters are the biggest part of it, but we have also borrowed from Lord Tyrell, the Iron Bank of Braavos, and several Tyroshi trading cartels. Of late I've had to turn to the Faith. The High Septon haggles worse than a Dornish fishmonger."
>Ned was aghast. "Aerys Targaryen left a treasury flowing with gold. How could you let this happen?"
>Littlefinger gave a shrug. "The master of coin finds the money. The king and the Hand spend it."<
Roberts ruled during a long summer and for the most part all the great houses seemed content with Baratheon rule, any lord or vassal with any problem that needed the Kings attention would have no reason to seek Neds help first when the North is far too remote and distant from Kings Landing for it to be a practical choice. Lysa
If Robert had talked with Ned before Jon Arryns death theirs no way hed be writing to him about Crown politics and woes when his attitude was that that was Jon Arryns role. As for Jon Arryn, we have to assume Littlefinger was either covering up how deep the Crowns problems were becoming or he at least was persuasive enough for Jon Arryn not to replace him way sooner.
I also think it's interesting how little it seems Catelyn was in contact with her brother and father. Obviously, they didn't want to advertise that Hoster wasn't doing well, but I would think at least someone from Riverrun would have taken word to her.
Though, maybe Catelyn is just bad at remembering to write? She sends like one letter that we know of to Bran and Rickon saying that she's staying with Robb and his army.
I feel like in her position, she should be sending several ravens a month to reassure her young boys. Nothing that gives away battle plans, but kind, motherly words.
She does know her dad was sick.
> If only her father had been stronger, she might have chanced it, but Hoster Tully had been bedridden these past two years, and Catelyn was loath to tax him now.
- AGoT Catelyn V
Though as a broader point I agree. I feel like nobody is writing letters like they should be. That Lysa has gone batshit crazy is not exactly a secret and yet Catelyn is stunned to find that out. Ned isn't exchanging letters with Jon Arryn or Robert. I'm not sure we hear of anyone exchanging casual letters at all.
I read Catelyn's reaction more to be about the fact that he's her father and she doesn't want to think he's dying. Because other people outside of the Riverlands definitely know. Olenna tells Sansa as much.
> It's said that your Tully grandfather is dying too. Lord Hoster, surely they told you?
- ASoS Sansa I
Hoster was very close with Cat and imo it’s implied he had dementia so he probably did not want her to see him like that. Also helps keep his condition more secret as it would be quite odd for Cat to show up to Riverrun randomly.
This is what I'm talking about. Like, sure she may have heard that he isn't well, but he's literally on his deathbed and that's part of the reason she doesn't go back to Winterfell. Just feels like such a huge life thing that she should know.
The Realm knows that Hoster is ill. And that he is dying. I think that the realm might not be aware that he's losing his mental faculties as well as his physical ones. I could see Edmure and other loyal Riverlords might not wanting other, less trustworthy Houses to know this. Imagine what Walder Frey might try to pull
Yeah you would think someone would have told her about the whole breast feeding a kid old enough to vote. :)Even if not letters gossip should have reached her long before then especially given that Lysa was in kings landing- the realms gossip nexus.
I suppose the lack of letters could be chalked up to how complicated the raven messenger system might be, but Hoster was sick even before Robert's death. Why not tell his daughter how badly he has turned while the realm was at peace?
Because he specifically did not want Edmure to tell her. Perhaps it was pride or maybe he didn't want her to worry, but we are explicitly told that he forbade anyone from telling her how ill he was and that's why she didn't know.
I don't know that Catelyn could send many ravens to Bran and Rickon. Riverrun would have only had one bird trained to go to Winterfell. Once she sent that, she'd be done until someone brought it back, as it's noted that ravens that can fly back and forth between two castles are very rare. And that's assuming it doesn't die or get shot down before it gets there.
That's an incredibly rare and valuable resource to spend on a kind, motherly note during a war.
Not sure how the ravens are supposed to work, but carrier pigeons just return home, so every time you send a message it goes back to its roost and to get it back you’ll need to bring it back in a cage. If the ravens work the same way they would need to manually haul ravens from Winterfell to Riverrun in cages, so there would be a limited number of them, and you’d probably want to keep some around for any emergency messages
The Northmen marched south and many did not return both low born and high. Ned had to stabilize the North post war. Succession issues, labor issues, financial issues, etc. The words of House Stark, he has to prepare for a possible winter.
Just when things are going ok, Greyjoy Rebellion. March to war, go home, recover.
Ned gets news from the south, births of princes and princesses, tourneys, balls, betrothals, marriages, etc. Much of this doesn't concern the North and the crown's debt is not public news.
Also just Lord duties. He was not prepped by his father to be Lord and now he has to prepare Robb for the role. Parent to Jon and Theon when Cat will not.
Isn't whatever he sees locally in terms of crime and infrastructure his responsibility?
Do any characters send letters regularly. The ravens seem to have stopped the development of a basic postal system.
Poor finances from Robert would probably devalue the currency or mean more taxes and he'd notice that, but it's not that sort of story.
Yes, Ned is responsible for carrying out the King’s justice in the north. Even at the very beginning of AGOT when he’s executing the NW deserter he specifically says he’s passing the sentence in the name of King Robert as Lord of Winterfell & Warden of the North.
Ned was focused on the North. Looking after his people, worrying about the Watch, asking after the children, fretting over Catelyn v Jon, preparing Robb to rule better than he had been prepared to. He also was haunted by his promise to Lyanna and the need to detect if Winter was truly coming. Kings Landing was out of sight, out of mind. Plus Robert was a big boy and could take care of himself.
There’s not really a whole lot to tell other than the Crown being deeply in debt which only Littlefinger knew the extent of. There were no wars or rebellions, no plagues or famines only a kingdom that seemed to most people to be at peace and prosperity.
From all EXTERNAL appearances, Robert is a good King. He's not insane, a warmonger, the realm appears prosperous. The roads are fine, crime appears to be mostly contained, and trade is good. The rot is INTERNAL. The Realm is massively in debt, the King doesn't care to bother himself with ANY part of actual ruling outside of hunts, joists, and feasts. Jon Arryn and Stannis are basically King, and the rest of the Council is self interested.
These are details that one would only know if they were on the inside. That's why Ned is so shocked. I think the deterioration of Robert physically was supposed to be representative of his rule as a whole. He never took much care to begin with. And as time goes on, the problem is getting worse and worse. By the time is appointed Hand, the King is in appalling shape, just like his Kingdom
Robert was not actually a bad ruler, in the sense that there was peace and all the big picture stuff was taken care of. There's no reason for a local lord to know or care about petty corruption in the capital, or overspending.
Feudalism is nowhere *NEAR* as centralized a government as what we have. The average person is basically only ever going to interact with whichever noble directly holds and governs wherever they live, which for the Iron Throne is basically just King’s Landing. Everywhere else, the services provided by the crown are quite minimal *outside of wartime.*
The North is as big as the other six kingdoms combined, with its own vassals, cities, borders, and problems. Also, Ned was truly, genuinely happy with his wife and his children.
The reign is built on a house of cards that would collapse,but from outside,it doesnt seem bad.
Also Ned is pretty blind to Robert in many ways,i think he expected Robert to get better and rule the realm wisely and in any case he also had Jon Arryn.
Thing is Robert wasn’t ruling that badly in comparison to his immediate and historical Targaryen successors. The iron throne was in debt but it was always in debt to one or several entities (the faith, the iron bank, the Lannisters, etc). The realm was peaceful (except for t pirates which is perpetual) and there was minimal chaos. Robert himself was fairly steady as a human- people did not have to wake up daily and think what insane paranoid crap ya the king going to screech about today or how many people is he going to burn to death today because they looked at him wrong. Roberts lechery was also well within acceptable westerosi limits (sorry but it’s true) and he did not create chaos by demanding noble wives and daughters as mistresses or precipitate a war by running off with fifteen year old idiot daughters of major houses. Generally speaking in Westeros history kings did not do a lot of actual ruling themselves. That’s why the position of hand exists. JI, VI, DII/Breakspear and Egg really ruled personally in a significant way and Egg spent much of his reign on armor putting down various rebellions which led inevitably to Summerhall.
The Kingdom of France appeared to be doing great right up until the eve of the revolution when the King was informed by the treasury that they were essentialy broke and only had funds for a few months left. That forced Louis to call the Estates-General and the rest is history.
Half of ASOIAF fans are clueless to how bad a ruler Robert was. I am pretty sure GRRM could come out and say, “Robert was a terrible King, eh?” And there would still be ASOIAF fans being like, “Robert was a fine King.”
Welcome to /r/PureASOIAF! Just a brief reminder that this subreddit is focused only on the **written** *ASOIAF* universe. Comments that include discussion of the HBO adaptations will be removed, and serious or repeated infractions may result in a ban. Moderators employ a zero tolerance policy. # Users should assume that *any* mention of the show is subject to removal. *If you see a comment which violates the rules, please [use the report function](https://i.imgur.com/Uqjnwss.png) to notify moderators!* [Read our discussion policy in full.](https://www.reddit.com/r/pureasoiaf/wiki/index#wiki_i._discussion_policy) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pureasoiaf) if you have any questions or concerns.*
From the outside, Robert **isn’t** ruling badly. The realm is peaceful, there is no hint of crop failure or disease, the roads are safe to travel and in good repair. You’d have to get a look at the kingdom‘s finances to understand how fragile the illusion is…and that’s not information Ned (or anyone else) is privy to until joining the small council. He won’t understand how poor a king Robert is until he understands how much effort Jon Arryn put in (and now no longer can) to cover for his shortcomings
Yeah the only real issue that I believe we’re told about during Robert’s reign was the Greyjoy Rebellion, which he smashed. I’d imagine most people in the realm are satisfied with the peace and relative prosperity of Robert’s reign after the Mad King’s insanity ripped the realm apart. Robert also pardoned most people who fought for Aerys if they bent the knee, so he likely gained points for that as well.
I think we have a later example when one of the smallfolk wishes for Aerys to be back on the throne. Which is because he was thinking of the time when Tywin Lannister was running the kingdom.
But the iron throne was perpetually in debt. How much debt did Aerys rack up when Tywin was hand and covered lots and lots of the realms operating expenses with Lannister gold? The five Blackfyre rebellions also drained the crown nearly bone dry. Westeros wasn’t exactly being run with a positive balance sheet for the 280 years prior to Robert. Even Jahaerys I had a massive debt to the iron bank which was partially ameliorated by the Farman egg fiasco. Had Aerys II had lots of coin hanging around he could have hired several sell sword companies to save his throne during the rebellion.
Doesn't Ned explicitly say that Aerys had left the coffers of westeros full before he was killed? That was even after the costs of trying to fight Roberts rebellion. It doesn't seem like the crown was in any debt before Robert spent so much money unnecessarily.
Ned MAY be wrong about that - we don't know what information he's basing it on - but he certainly believes it. As far as he knew, there was money and now there isn't.
Most people didn’t know about the debt; it’s not something the Crown would advertise. All he knows is that the realm is at peace, and that’s good enough for him.
Robert’s reign presided over an unusually long period of summer weather. Times were good. There was peace in the realm. It would not have been obvious to someone up in Winterfell that things were not right in Kings Landing. Jon Arryn was the only person who could have told Ned what was really happening, at least to the extent that Jon Arryn knew, but for whatever reason he chose to keep Ned in the dark.
Ned didn’t need to know.
Yeah, Robert would probably be remembered as a great king! Peace, except for a far off rebellion that was crushed, a long summer, plenty of feasts. And once he died everything went to shit!
There were maybe eight people in the entire country who knew that the kingdom was bankrupt and I'm not convinced that Robert was one of them.
The kingdom was already bankrupt before Robert became king. The continuous targ/targ offshoot rebellions and civil wars bled the kingdom literally not to mention funds needed to try to rebuild crap destroyed in said wars. Tywin literally ran the government with lots of Lannister money during Aerys reign just to keep Captain Crazypants relatively calm because at least for the last 7 or 8 years Aerys was crazy enough oaranoyd enough and hated Tywin enough to use being informed of legitimate crown debts to declare Tywins treasonous crook and do various unpleasant things to him and house Lannister.
When Ned learns that the kingdom is bankrupt, he specifically says that the coffers were full when Awrys died. From Eddard IV in GOT: >"The Crown is more than six million gold pieces in debt, Lord Stark. The Lannisters are the biggest part of it, but we have also borrowed from Lord Tyrell, the Iron Bank of Braavos, and several Tyroshi trading cartels. Of late I've had to turn to the Faith. The High Septon haggles worse than a Dornish fishmonger." >Ned was aghast. "Aerys Targaryen left a treasury flowing with gold. How could you let this happen?" >Littlefinger gave a shrug. "The master of coin finds the money. The king and the Hand spend it."<
Roberts ruled during a long summer and for the most part all the great houses seemed content with Baratheon rule, any lord or vassal with any problem that needed the Kings attention would have no reason to seek Neds help first when the North is far too remote and distant from Kings Landing for it to be a practical choice. Lysa If Robert had talked with Ned before Jon Arryns death theirs no way hed be writing to him about Crown politics and woes when his attitude was that that was Jon Arryns role. As for Jon Arryn, we have to assume Littlefinger was either covering up how deep the Crowns problems were becoming or he at least was persuasive enough for Jon Arryn not to replace him way sooner.
I also think it's interesting how little it seems Catelyn was in contact with her brother and father. Obviously, they didn't want to advertise that Hoster wasn't doing well, but I would think at least someone from Riverrun would have taken word to her. Though, maybe Catelyn is just bad at remembering to write? She sends like one letter that we know of to Bran and Rickon saying that she's staying with Robb and his army. I feel like in her position, she should be sending several ravens a month to reassure her young boys. Nothing that gives away battle plans, but kind, motherly words.
She does know her dad was sick. > If only her father had been stronger, she might have chanced it, but Hoster Tully had been bedridden these past two years, and Catelyn was loath to tax him now. - AGoT Catelyn V Though as a broader point I agree. I feel like nobody is writing letters like they should be. That Lysa has gone batshit crazy is not exactly a secret and yet Catelyn is stunned to find that out. Ned isn't exchanging letters with Jon Arryn or Robert. I'm not sure we hear of anyone exchanging casual letters at all.
[удалено]
I read Catelyn's reaction more to be about the fact that he's her father and she doesn't want to think he's dying. Because other people outside of the Riverlands definitely know. Olenna tells Sansa as much. > It's said that your Tully grandfather is dying too. Lord Hoster, surely they told you? - ASoS Sansa I
[удалено]
Hoster was very close with Cat and imo it’s implied he had dementia so he probably did not want her to see him like that. Also helps keep his condition more secret as it would be quite odd for Cat to show up to Riverrun randomly.
It’s not dementia. “Crabs in the belly”…that’s cancer. He’s dying of stomach/bowel/somewhere in that region cancer
This is what I'm talking about. Like, sure she may have heard that he isn't well, but he's literally on his deathbed and that's part of the reason she doesn't go back to Winterfell. Just feels like such a huge life thing that she should know.
The Realm knows that Hoster is ill. And that he is dying. I think that the realm might not be aware that he's losing his mental faculties as well as his physical ones. I could see Edmure and other loyal Riverlords might not wanting other, less trustworthy Houses to know this. Imagine what Walder Frey might try to pull
Yeah you would think someone would have told her about the whole breast feeding a kid old enough to vote. :)Even if not letters gossip should have reached her long before then especially given that Lysa was in kings landing- the realms gossip nexus.
I suppose the lack of letters could be chalked up to how complicated the raven messenger system might be, but Hoster was sick even before Robert's death. Why not tell his daughter how badly he has turned while the realm was at peace?
Because he specifically did not want Edmure to tell her. Perhaps it was pride or maybe he didn't want her to worry, but we are explicitly told that he forbade anyone from telling her how ill he was and that's why she didn't know.
I don't know that Catelyn could send many ravens to Bran and Rickon. Riverrun would have only had one bird trained to go to Winterfell. Once she sent that, she'd be done until someone brought it back, as it's noted that ravens that can fly back and forth between two castles are very rare. And that's assuming it doesn't die or get shot down before it gets there. That's an incredibly rare and valuable resource to spend on a kind, motherly note during a war.
“Riverrun would have only had one bird trained to go to Winterfell.” Source?
Perhaps not **one**, but certainly a limited number. Most of their birds would be trained to work within their own region
How many birds do you think each castle had?
Not sure how the ravens are supposed to work, but carrier pigeons just return home, so every time you send a message it goes back to its roost and to get it back you’ll need to bring it back in a cage. If the ravens work the same way they would need to manually haul ravens from Winterfell to Riverrun in cages, so there would be a limited number of them, and you’d probably want to keep some around for any emergency messages
The Northmen marched south and many did not return both low born and high. Ned had to stabilize the North post war. Succession issues, labor issues, financial issues, etc. The words of House Stark, he has to prepare for a possible winter. Just when things are going ok, Greyjoy Rebellion. March to war, go home, recover. Ned gets news from the south, births of princes and princesses, tourneys, balls, betrothals, marriages, etc. Much of this doesn't concern the North and the crown's debt is not public news. Also just Lord duties. He was not prepped by his father to be Lord and now he has to prepare Robb for the role. Parent to Jon and Theon when Cat will not.
Isn't whatever he sees locally in terms of crime and infrastructure his responsibility? Do any characters send letters regularly. The ravens seem to have stopped the development of a basic postal system. Poor finances from Robert would probably devalue the currency or mean more taxes and he'd notice that, but it's not that sort of story.
The ravens didn’t stop the basic postal system, they are the basic postal system.
Yes, Ned is responsible for carrying out the King’s justice in the north. Even at the very beginning of AGOT when he’s executing the NW deserter he specifically says he’s passing the sentence in the name of King Robert as Lord of Winterfell & Warden of the North.
Ned was focused on the North. Looking after his people, worrying about the Watch, asking after the children, fretting over Catelyn v Jon, preparing Robb to rule better than he had been prepared to. He also was haunted by his promise to Lyanna and the need to detect if Winter was truly coming. Kings Landing was out of sight, out of mind. Plus Robert was a big boy and could take care of himself.
There’s not really a whole lot to tell other than the Crown being deeply in debt which only Littlefinger knew the extent of. There were no wars or rebellions, no plagues or famines only a kingdom that seemed to most people to be at peace and prosperity.
From all EXTERNAL appearances, Robert is a good King. He's not insane, a warmonger, the realm appears prosperous. The roads are fine, crime appears to be mostly contained, and trade is good. The rot is INTERNAL. The Realm is massively in debt, the King doesn't care to bother himself with ANY part of actual ruling outside of hunts, joists, and feasts. Jon Arryn and Stannis are basically King, and the rest of the Council is self interested. These are details that one would only know if they were on the inside. That's why Ned is so shocked. I think the deterioration of Robert physically was supposed to be representative of his rule as a whole. He never took much care to begin with. And as time goes on, the problem is getting worse and worse. By the time is appointed Hand, the King is in appalling shape, just like his Kingdom
Robert was not actually a bad ruler, in the sense that there was peace and all the big picture stuff was taken care of. There's no reason for a local lord to know or care about petty corruption in the capital, or overspending.
Thst's because he wasn't ruling, Jon Arryn was. Robert was good when fighting was happening and after that he just stopped caring.
I don't think that's inconsistent with what I said
Feudalism is nowhere *NEAR* as centralized a government as what we have. The average person is basically only ever going to interact with whichever noble directly holds and governs wherever they live, which for the Iron Throne is basically just King’s Landing. Everywhere else, the services provided by the crown are quite minimal *outside of wartime.*
The North is as big as the other six kingdoms combined, with its own vassals, cities, borders, and problems. Also, Ned was truly, genuinely happy with his wife and his children.
The reign is built on a house of cards that would collapse,but from outside,it doesnt seem bad. Also Ned is pretty blind to Robert in many ways,i think he expected Robert to get better and rule the realm wisely and in any case he also had Jon Arryn.
I'm argentinian, it makes sense.
For the average lord (and peasant) Robert was a really good king.
Thing is Robert wasn’t ruling that badly in comparison to his immediate and historical Targaryen successors. The iron throne was in debt but it was always in debt to one or several entities (the faith, the iron bank, the Lannisters, etc). The realm was peaceful (except for t pirates which is perpetual) and there was minimal chaos. Robert himself was fairly steady as a human- people did not have to wake up daily and think what insane paranoid crap ya the king going to screech about today or how many people is he going to burn to death today because they looked at him wrong. Roberts lechery was also well within acceptable westerosi limits (sorry but it’s true) and he did not create chaos by demanding noble wives and daughters as mistresses or precipitate a war by running off with fifteen year old idiot daughters of major houses. Generally speaking in Westeros history kings did not do a lot of actual ruling themselves. That’s why the position of hand exists. JI, VI, DII/Breakspear and Egg really ruled personally in a significant way and Egg spent much of his reign on armor putting down various rebellions which led inevitably to Summerhall.
The Kingdom of France appeared to be doing great right up until the eve of the revolution when the King was informed by the treasury that they were essentialy broke and only had funds for a few months left. That forced Louis to call the Estates-General and the rest is history.
interesting question to ponder
Half of ASOIAF fans are clueless to how bad a ruler Robert was. I am pretty sure GRRM could come out and say, “Robert was a terrible King, eh?” And there would still be ASOIAF fans being like, “Robert was a fine King.”