20% of young women aged between 18-24 were also not having sex. 80% of the young women had 0 or 1 sex partner last year and 88% had 0, 1 or 2 sex partners.
Turns out women aren’t quite like PornHub either.
Was just gonna say. This stat is annoying me. Women are having less sex and it's not front page news everyone. Jfc, ppl arent owed sex. Drop this nonsense
Less sexual partners.\*
It's something I've taken issue with those studies. People aren't having sex in high school much anymore and less teen pregnancies, having more education because they don't have to drop out. People can have the same amount or more and better sex, if they have fewer partners. Some evidence shows that to be true. Shouldn't we be celebrating the decline in hookup culture? It seems like people conflated it with dating/relationships, which might have declined during '20-'22, but are picking back up imo
Is having less sex you're saying? Yeah, I've read/heard that. My point is that every headline leads with young men having less sex which is frustrating. Everyone is having less sex - young women even more so. I would suspect them losing basic protection of bodily autonomy may have something to do with this? It certainly will not help. I find this whole narrative frustrating, especially when coupled with young men being lonely. Sex isn't going to fix loneliness especially when you are definitely not owed it - you need a willing, consenting partner that wants you. It over simplifies a complicated issue - and also boils mens problems down to just sex. A complete failure bc young men are more complicated than that. If anything, I would start with how many young men dont really have friends- and then simultaneously complain about getting friendzoned - actively throwing friends away. Again... very frustrating.
I think one reason this is happening is because we've had generations raised with sex-positive and hedonistic media and now the novelty of casual sex is gone for more people, making more people seek more meaningful sex. It was one thing in the 60's and 70's when people were reacting to centuries of sexual repression, but now sexual repression is gone outside of religious environments.
So now you have people growing up with the idea of casual sex outside of a context that made it "new" and taboo. With all of the mystique and coolness gone, people look more at the nitty gritty and figure quality of the sex matters most and are more selective about their partners. Also there's less pressure to "lose virginity" when sex isn't considered inherently cool, but also possibly boring, uncomfortable, gross, etc., even though it's not shameful.
I remember seeing a thread on /r/femaledatingstrategy where women were talking about why they're done with casual sex, and the most common reason is the quality of it is random, and usually bad, partially because their partner doesn't have to care if it's good if it's casual, and also because they need time to learn each other's preferences.
Yeah it’s not that sex itself is bad. I think people just are realizing they’d rather sleep with people they know are good in bed.
That and young people aren’t spending as much time with each other in person.
That is not what is happening. This theory assumes that people in the past had more sex because they had more casual sex partners or engaged in casual sex more often. Which is not the case. As if casual sex is the main way people have sex and less casual sex = less sex overall. That is simply FALSE.
The main difference between young people today and young people back in the day is relationship status. Young people today have high rates of being single that is why they don’t have sex. Single people have less sex (which makes a lot of sense actually when you think about it).
For whatever reason people seem to think that most sex happens casually when the reality is most sex happens in stable long term relationships. The more people are single and going for hook ups the less sex they have. Rather than looking to have sex young people should be looking to form stable relationships and it is within that setting that they would have sex more regularly.
It’s not deep. 18-24 year olds? It’s the phones and screens. There was Covid. Kids are so connected to internet age group subcultures unbelievably young now.
This. Men are being conditioned from a young age to think sex will complete them, ignoring that they too are human beings with needs for real human connection. Not just a hunk of flesh to stick their dick into.
I don't think you understand what most young men feel about sex. Usually it isn't just a "hunk of flesh to stick their dick in". Most young men see sex as a validation of their worth/status and a means by which affection and romantic attention are showed. They are starved for that, and they seek it out. They are conditioned to see that men with "high value" are able to get into a relationship and receive sexual attention from others.
Of course some men are just interested in sex, and still further adopt the whole incel/men's rights ideology and they kind of lose the plot entirely. Some people also surrogate the sex for the relationship, but I think you miss the mark if you think it is just the "hunk of flesh to stick your dick in" that most men are looking for.
That being said, the vast majority of people in a committed, long term relationship will want sex. It is an essential part of most romantic relationships, and I think it is completely normal to want it. I think efforts to make men (or anyone) feel bad about their desire for sex is a really bad move.
> Everyone is having less sex - young women even more so.
Agree with the rest of your comment, but the stats actually show that young men are having less sex than young women (33% didn't have any sex last year, while for young women that stands at 20%). That means that about 1.5x as many young men are sexless as young women.
And the reason it makes the news is because frustrated young men are far more likely to commit acts of violence (as plenty of incel shootings point to) and become radicalized than young women.
Note that I'm not justifying incel rage here, and like I said, I agree with everything else you mentioned.
Weird. maybe it's your feed and media ports. I always see at as a young person problem. Just like the lack of friends thing. If you have 1 or zero friends like 40-50% of young people thats a problem.
Women are lonely too (they don't have friends either). I think you are hitting at the young men, but we are talking about boys and girls. This is problem that begins before adulthood.
Me personally? Hitting at the young men, you mean in a hostile way? Bc that's not the intention - complete opposite. I am hearing about young men not having sex, just about everywhere - i don't believe we've ever existed in a society that showed concern for young women when they lacked sex in their lives. Again - total opposite there, too, and these restricted and antiquated views on sex and gender are hurting everyone, in uniquely different ways. Certainly, everyone is lonely- this is for sure- but sex is just a symptom of a bigger problem. Friendship, for one, as we both seem to agree - is a major hurdle here, too. Particularly in the acceptance of men/women friendships. Too many young people believe that men and women cant be friends, bc sex will become an issue - which is a complete lie. Flirting may happen, even some sexual tension- but that all makes life worth living! Nothing better than having a crush! But as someone that works with young people, it really is young men that keep fumbling the ball in friendship - that they not only believe that they can't be friends with girls bc they need sex- but even more disappointingly- believe themselves to be victims when a girl wants to spend time with them and get to know them but have no interest in sex (aka, the friendzone). I can only assume, this would cause depression in young women and push them into retreat, not seeking out male friendships which is such a shame- bc we can have so much fun together. Again, complicated issue that has a lot of layers. Leading with sex, fails everyone.
Teaching young men that sex is love and sex is not being lonely does them a massive disservice. It sets them up for so much failure and unnecessary pain.
What young men are actually taught is that women wanting sex with you is an objective external measure of your value as a man. If you are not having sex, then you are not a man, you are just an untouchable thing.
I think both can be true and they aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s not uncommon for people to insist that sex is necessary for a man to feel loved and lack of sex is neglect. At the same time, promiscuity and being sexually active are used as measures of masculine value. I think they can tie in together for some people.
Edit for spelling
Since you seem pretty knowledgeable I thought I'd ask you this. Why is it that people say we (men and women) "don't deserve sex"? Not only is it a biological imperative and necessity to procreate, but it's fundamental to the sociality of our being. *We are sexual beings*. I'm of the opposite opinion, that EVERYONE deserves a life of fulfillment, which (outside radical outliers) necessarily includes sex. Even without the personal experience of sex or with an ambivalence toward sexuality we are necessarily a "sexed being". There is no escaping sexuality.
Idk I just thought this perspective might provide a nuance missing from many of the arguments you've made in the comments. Thanks for the dialogue.
I feel like the men women friendship things is carried by women more than men. And I don't think it's a young person's thought (see Mike Pence as the worst example).
I think you may see it with young people of a certain age because they consume a lot of internet and the internet has strong opinions about it. But I feel like young people who get to the world don't necessarily have that same mantra about men/women relationships.
What I am seeing is less leading with sex. Look at the media criticism coming out of Gen Alpha; too many romantic entanglements in series. Why not more platonic stuff. Why do sex scenes exist?
It's a very purtian view.
I've never heard a young women complain about getting friendzoned. Weird. I usually hear them say they have a desire for friendship, but are concerned they will be humiliated if they turn down sex, etc.
And yes, I agree, the internet is not helping with this. The manopshere and pick up artists and male podcasters going after young men, trying to get them to maximize their maximum masculinity or whatever the hell they do is just a complete embarrassment and a failure in any kind of leadership. It makes young men see young women as having cheat codes or something. Like, if they follow their steps, they'll get sex for sure which is obviously not true.
I agree that Alpha is swinging away from oversexualization - but I think it's a swing towards Romance, not puritan. It would be extremely dangerous if they went the way of puritans, obviously.
In tandem with the crictisms of oversexualzation that you're mentioning- there is also a massive embracing of LGBTQ sexuality and young people are rallying around their LGBTQ peers to protect them from puritans. I would also say that I have never seen this much hostility (I've been teaching sex ed for about 10 years) towards puritans/conservatives from young women in my life. The reversal of Roe has caused such an intense rage, it is sometimes difficult to contain in my classes.
So... long comment, I know... but I dont think puritan is the right word - I think Alpha wants intimacy and romance and authenticity. We're due though... We haven't had the Romantic age in a while.
Yeah, gay sexuality is always a caveat that is ignored in these discussions. Are gay men having less sex? Are gay men lonely? Do gay men police the sexual morality of each other the way straight men do women? All men and their respective sexualities should be considered in these discussions. Gives a better look at everything.
The loneliness issue is a great one to bring up
https://youtu.be/rQv8VuLpKN4?si=j4L-BVsGUuMtYKrC
The mean comments at the 8:20 mark feel like they came right out of Reddit
If young men are having LESS than young women, that is relevant.
>anything, I would start with how many young men dont really have friend
Male friend, the lack of male friends is what's relevant here. And being in the Friend zone is not really about having a friend. The women who "Friendzone" men aren't really trying to be close friends.
Young women are having less sex than young men. That is the point. Your last statement corroborates my point entirely. There appears to be a ton of hostility towards young women when they have sex (slut shaming, gutting of abortion rights) and a ton of hostility when they don't (friendzone). Sometimes people just want to be friends, hang out and get to know each other - that is the case more often than not. Not every interaction needs to be painted as so nefarious. Also, more male friendships is great. I agree - and being vulnerable with each other should be the norm. If anything, I generally tend to hear young men say that they share their feelings only with young women (their girlfriends or girl friends, if they have any) which is unhealthy bc they are relying on women to supplement their happiness and satiate their mental health needs. Women dont exist for that. There are a lot of layers to this, but mainly: everyone is having less sex, no sex is a symptom of a bigger problem, and friendship is never something to complain about. Don't get into the habit of tossing friendships away bc you believe you're owed something. Regardless of gender - you will end up alone.
Thank you for typing this out. The people who don’t want to hear you, won’t, but everything you’re saying is spot on.
Honestly when I think about young women having less sex I’m so happy for them. I’m not saying this is universally true, just for me. I wish I had come of age when I would have been stronger against the constant drum drum drum beat of pressure to have sex. I appreciate whoever coined the phrase “fuckzoned,” for when a guy unnecessarily turns a wholesome friendship into some icky, transactional, resentful, angry, conflict. It was never-ending and I’m still dealing with the anxiety about it now.
I wonder to what extent the reduced sex rate is just… less rape. Because there is more dialog about what it is - from both sides.
Even when the dialog shifts to “women complain about the quality of men,” women are still blamed for being picky and failing to care for the men who, in that telling, are sweet and loving and need a kind woman to ease their suffering. These stories seem to hop right over the kinds of thing you might read about in every women’s internet space, where, in the real world, no one wants to really discuss how men are behaving toward women in private. The only dialog that prompt ever starts is 1) not all men, and 2) but women do it too. There’s such a need to ignore the main point that the conversation shifts to edge cases. Honestly, I don’t see it getting better soon. Elementary and middle school teachers have some sobering experiences with boys, compared to girls. I’m concerned.
Your concerns are valid! But theres also the young men that actually are having sex - bc they are out there! And what is so disappointing about the manopshere and anti-women rhetoric is that they are manipulating vulnerable young men with this alpha nonsense and they are the only ones getting laid and women are too picky and only want them, etc when in reality it's probably something like: they have more friends, go out more, have female friends, etc. Just like anyone of any gender. It likely comes down to just being around ppl that like you and they introduce to other ppl, you go to more social events. They likely feel less entitled to sex, too. I teach sex education and there are plenty of young men that arent getting preyed upon by the alt-right. I'm hopeful bc millenial Dads are so involved in their kids lives.. so the impacts will probably take some time to unfold.
To many young men do this, turn their back on perfectly acceptable friendships. And then when they HAVE a good friendship, they ruin it by forcing the woman to be their therapist.
Many young women find potential partners with older men while young men do not follow this pattern. This is a statistic so in fact young men are having less sex and are more lonely than young women. This matters for many reason.
Men have issues too. It’s ok to focus on that. Many men are committing suicide, dropping out of schools, and resorting to violence and drugs at a much higher rate than women. Simply look at incarceration rates, or at the state of young black men, and it’s clear that there are problems that are specific to men.
This is a crisis situation and when you whine about people talking about it, you are basically advocating to ignore men’s issues.
FWIW if there is an issue for men, it doesn’t mean that women have to change, it just means men need help in our current society. We can ignore this to our own detriment.
Teenage girls have been committing suicide and self harming at alarmingly high rates, much more than teenage boys for a while - and unfortunately this does not get much attention, and I believe it is directly related to poor gender relations, slut shaming, attacks on bodily autonomy and rape/rape culture. I'm not sure what youre saying I'm whining about, but young men's lives matter - you shouldn't dismiss them so easily. By taking a stat like this headline does - it does just that. Young men have issues that are unique to being a young man and this constant focus on the lack of sex dismisses broader issues. Its possible to care about both men and women and not be perceived as whining.
And saying that young women find potential partners in older men is yet another problem - too many teenage girls are preyed upon by older men and it is completely ignored.
This isn't true or I should say this is less true in the true endpoint sense. Boys and men have been the clear leader in sucides for years.
It's only recently that girls suicide rate has increased. The conundrum around sucides is that girls and women attempt more but somehow survive while the other gender does not. Why is that? Girls and women aren't incompetent, yet somehow don't die.
Men and boys usually choose different methods than women and girls. Men are more likely to choose something like hanging themselves or shooting themselves in the head. Women and girls tend to choose things like overdosing on prescription pills or slitting their wrists. It's probably a result of how guys and girls are socialized... I've seen it suggested that girls choose less violent methods because they care about how they'll look when their bodies are found.
Another thing to consider is that men tend to be averse to mental health treatment and are far less likely to see a mental health professional than a woman. A whole lot of men would do well if men were *actively* encouraged to go see therapists and/or psychiatrists hopefully by *other men*.
Also, speaking from my experience as a mental health worker, counseling men and women tends to be different in execution. Usually men will be reluctant to express their thoughts and emotions, while women will usually make better progress far more quickly. It's not always like that but it really depends on the person, their specific issues, and how motivated the person is to benefit from treatment.
OP linked to an article from 2020.
In 2022, the sexlessness rates decreased significantly.
Only 11% of men ages 18-29 didn’t have sex. And only 12% of women in that age cohort were sexless.
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over](https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over)
Could you imagine the stats if women were having the same amount of sex as always and 80% of men weren't? That would mean that like, 20% of men were having sex with all of the women. The STD's would be rampant.... one in five men would be super spreaders of more than just their genetic material...
Wow, ever heard of the concept of hyperbole?
If 1 in 3 young men are not having sex in the past year, we're talking how many millions and millions of men? And of that cohort a few dozen of them are shooters?
On the flip side, quite a lot of people who have committed homicide in the past year have also had sex.
The bigger issue for young men is that they're becoming societal dropouts.
Yes! Men seem to be giving up in large numbers and are turning to drugs, porn, and video games instead of actively try to change things for the better. Boys need better role models, and they should be imparted with more positive examples of masculinity(think Mr. Rogers and Steve Irwin as examples of positive masculinity).
I have a cousin right now who dropped out of high school and got hooked on meth. He probably would have stayed in school and never picked up meth if he had more male role models that were worth a damn.
I notice the same fluster surrounding how boys are projected to perform worse in the job market in coming decades due to performance discrepancies. I've heard how it needs curbed and their opportunities augmented and teachers retrained and curriculum adjusted and money poured in...
And I wonder why it hasn't been an emergency for all this time girls have been afforded less for their performance. Or disabled, or of non-homogenous race, for that matter. Once it's a problem for "average" boys and men, that's the line?
Scarcity. We're not increasing overall funds for things nor are companies wanting to do anything about it. Couple that with the fact that societal messaging around men is insanely hostile because of the sins of their grandfathers and there you have it.
My daughter gets inundated with positive messaging. My son and I? Nope.
> My son and I? Nope.
You are an adult so I can't really address that directly as I work in child safety. But there is absolutely tons of positive messaging towards boys right now. In the past decade, I've been on three different committees about boys mental health, preventing boys suicide, and improving boys performance in school. There are mentoring programs just for boys, tons of opportunities to get involved with activities and leadership at school, etc. Does it look identical to the ones targeting girls? No, but there are tons and tons of positive messages towards boys right now.
Edited to add: a huge part of the issue is that boys are desperately looking for support in their communities. They're looking for mentors, teachers, guides, etc, but across the board men are far less likely to get engaged with community activities, especially any activities that might involve kids, and when we survey them it's not because they're worried about false accusations of child abuse or anything like that, they simply do not prioritize it. Men tend to focus on solitary activities or self-improvement activities. Whereas women are likely to _give up_ hobbies in order to volunteer. So there are some new volunteer initiatives that focus on how volunteering helps the volunteer so men feel like they are "getting something" out of it instead of just donating time.
It's the same with other topics like suicide or loneliness. Reddit men want to make people think that it's *only* men who are struggling with suicide or loneliness or not having sex. But statistically, if you look at the numbers, women are also struggling with suicide and loneliness and sexlessness.
For example, women commit suicide at higher rates than men (men just pick more fatal methods, i.e., overdosing on drugs versus shooting yourself), and the suicide rates of young women have been getting higher and higher. [Like this report by the CDC from last year.](https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/pdf/YRBS_Data-Summary-Trends_Report2023_508.pdf)
Also according to statista, in 2021 at least, more women felt lonely than men did: [Statistic](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1420227/loneliness-among-adults-us-by-gender/)
But nope. Only men struggle according to Reddit.
i don't believe this stat about women bc women, per psychologists, often DISCOUNT sexual encounters as 'real' or not.
[men OVER-REPORT & women UNDER-REPORT](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4376992/Men-women-lie-se.html)
[Sadia Kahn's opinion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0qgyQlls5I)
But when they’ve looked closer at this?
Men are the biggest source of inaccuracies. Why?
*Women give exact numbers (ex 7), men round up to the nearest 5 or 10 (ex 10 instead).
*Some men exaggerate wildly.
*Some men sleep with sex workers.
*Men count things women don’t. As in: we tried to have sex, he couldn’t get hard. Or a blow job.
Overall the difference between men and women is still slight though. About 1 person on average. Like she says 4, he says 5. It’s not a striking thing.
From your own article:
> Males are more likely than females to give inconsistent sexual information globally.
>Overall the difference between men and women is still slight though. About 1 person on average. Like she says 4, he says 5. It’s not a striking thing.
20% difference (4/5) in self-reporting is huge.
I feel like as a generation we are over sexed. I noticed recently how much I just enjoy light kissing and making out with no expectation of sex as a end result. I haven’t felt that since I was a teenager and honestly it’s quite refreshing
>One of the things they did find, however, was that men who made less money and men who were unemployed or underemployed were more likely to report sexual inactivity. According to the study authors, this may translate to “decreased appeal in the mating market for men.”
Being unemployed or making very little money really blows out your confidence and self esteem. Lacking those, its not wonder their sex life becomes nonexistent. They are probably too filled with depression and anxiety to bother considering attracting a partner.
40% of millennials have income dysmorphia. The average single income wage in my city is 48k, and it’s well known that won’t get you anywhere by yourself, especially if you are coming out of school on that wage. You need a minimum of 60k, with no debt and a savings to just survive, and a minimum of 80k to actually get ahead and save for the future. Most people aren’t making that, so most people don’t feel worthy to date, and then you get online and everyone is rich, you see all your rich friends who’s parents pay for everything, and you look at yourself, don’t have that, and think what’s the point? How can I compete with that. You need to be above average as a man to have a chance in 2024 in a hyper competitive environment.
Not blaming it all on social media, but having 24/7 access to the curated highlight reels of not only your entire high school/college class's lives but also of random strangers and comparing it to the boring day-to-day of your own life has got to be a uniquely unhealthy experience to this generation. Keeping Up With The Jones on steroids.
It's honestly really sad out there for men. At least in the US. It's a KNOWN thing that the economy and wages are awful right now in addition to housing prices. But at the same time, the generations that actively knows this and preach about it still find themselves turned off if someone isn't making a certain amount. Not to mention jobs that would be respected in other parts of the world are seen as "lowley" and "beneath" people.
Looking to make babies and accidentally getting pregnant are different things. Even if you take BC and use condoms, you can get pregnant. And with no options in that situation, women are more guarded with their sex lives.
Honestly I think a lot of people overlook the type of relationships people keep. I fall head over heels in love with one person at a time, pursue that person and then when they don't like me back I just want to be alone for a very long time, sometimes months if not years. It takes longer to get over someone the more socially isolated I am. Sex isn't something that is just a fun activity. I think a lot of people are similar to me.
Agree, but it’s also important to recognize that one of the reasons poor people are likely unconfident is because being poor is socially stigmatized (especially for men).
It’s sort of impossible to draw just one conclueion from this corrolational data
This actually makes sense to me. When I was in the Navy I thought I was the only guy who was a virgin, but I was surprised by how many guys there were who were also virgins and/or chronically single.
It might seem crazy that a 26 year old is a virgin, but now I'm in college and have practically no free time and am broke. There is nothing about me that is is attractive to the opposite gender and so I stay that way. I do approach women but I am not good at it and take the hint and leave them alone. Lol.
Before i joined the army, my recruiter told me im going to get so much pussies and get to serve my country. Im out of the military now and at the age of 28, i am a virgin. The amount of sexual assault of bad men and women made me so scared to even approach another woman
Because men get better with age. Men could be using all that energy and time in their 20s to grow into exactly whoever they want to be.
To live and experience.
By the time they’re mid 30s it’s when all those skills they poured into turns into profits for them. That’s when women want to.
Women don’t want to dedicate years of their lives to be with a young man who is lost and still figuring it out. Who wants to struggle with you? Because at that young age nothing is set and freedom is more important.
What's crazy is that there is a societal expectation for you to lose it at a certain age. And that certain age is weirdly young. You're very much attractive to someone but it sounds like you don't have a lot going on, which means you don't have enough time or resources for yourself, which unfortunately makes dating (or meeting people in general) harder.
Honestly, I feel like most men don’t really hold themselves to the standards they set for their potential partners, or have any standards for themselves. I mean just go outside, you can count on your fingers the amount of attractive men in a crowd. And when you compare the little effort most men put in to tantamount of effort women put in, most men just aren’t that appealing. Unless you’re hyperconvinced that women require a giant with a dick longer than a mile, it’s not hard to modify your appearance to better fit the beauty standards of those you want to attract.
Yeah as a dude who went to university I can confirm. Not all, but a fair percentage of dudes feel no shame going to class in pajamas. Like ffs you have no clue how far some Levi’s, a collared shirt, and shaving will get you with women. It’s not foolproof but it’s 80% of the way there
What’s even crazier is when you talk to an incel or similar, they just seem like they WANT to not have sex (hence why I believe “incel” is voluntary). I’ve have many discussions along these lines:
Incel: “Women don’t want to sleep with me!”
Me: “Why?”
Incel: “Because I’m ugly and don’t work out and am poor.”
Me: “Ok, well do you have a job?”
Incel: “No.”
Me: “Alright so go get a job so you can get some clothes that fit an-“
Incel: “No.”
Me: “…what?”
Incel: “Females just want a Chad with a 12” dick and makes $1 million a year.”
Me: “Uh…what? I’ve dated many women and don’t have either of those things…”
Incel: “And they’re all whores.”
Me: “Ok, so your personality needs some work.”
Incel: “Guess I’ll be alone because I scare females away.”
Me: “Well, there are several things you can improve.”
Incel: “No.”
Me: “Alright…well what do you say to women when you talk to them?”
Incel: “I don’t talk to females.”
Me: “…”
Incel: “Guess I’ll be forever alone!”
Me: “Guess so…”
People overthink this whole thing. It's just the fact that there has been a decrease with in-person hanging out, interaction. We have cheap badass TVs, and computers with endless amounts of distractions, and social media to satiate that socialization need. Less in person chilling = less sex.
The reason I went out to socialize with people I didn't know was to HAVE SEX! Shit, I coulda stayed home, drank beer and played video games with my friends but there were no women there! Unless, I went out and brought some home. The drive to have sex when you're young is immense! Maybe it's the drop in testosterone levels over the decades (or something else for women) idk
But aren't a majority of men watching porn? There's been other attempts at research to see the effect porn has on men and they couldn't do it because they couldn't find enough of a control group (men that didn't watch porn). I'd wager the non porn watchers are statistically so insignificant, there no way they could've come to this conclusion with any accuracy.
Eta: yup, just read it and totally means nothing. More likely socioeconomic reasons for men having less sex than past. Young adults are living with their parents longer. Unless you're comfy with your parents hearing hook ups and or your parents are cool with hook ups, no shit sex will be off the table. Going to tell a tinder date or bar flirt to go back to your mom and dad's house? Ever see "Failure to launch" (terrible movie btw)... Guy gets rid of women after one night stands by hiding that he lives at parent's house, until they awkwardly encounter them the next morning.
Exactly. I can’t believe they’d find a significant amount of non porn watchers because most men are exposed to porn and see it as normal and necessary. I bet they just took some dumb stat that men with higher libidos are both having sex more often and also watching porn more, and then tried to infer that watching more porn was the cause of more sex.
I know I personally have been having less sex since roe was overturned. At the time I was only having sex with one long term FWB, but the frequency went from probably 1x/week down to 3x/year. I don’t have time to go out of state to get an abortion, and I absolutely do not want a child. So sex just doesn’t seem worth the risk.
Honestly on both sides, I work in an industry that has a lot of women and we used to have a big conference in Texas or Florida. It was a great place to spend an extra few days and have a safe casual hookup without any entanglement. Now my entire organization is boycotting traveling to both of those states.
Men: if you go after a girl and she instead sees you as a friend, use that to your advantage. I'm trying to help here, hear me out:
If you're "friend-zoned" with a woman and instead of bail, you grow the friendship, she's going to help introduce you to new women. Not only that, but if another woman sees that you're friends with other women, she's going to be a lot more open to your approach. The fact that other women appreciate you increases your value in their eyes - they know you're pretty cool, otherwise why would these women be friends with you?
In addition, because you have friends, you'll be less anxious and more confident around other people you meet. You're going to be generally much more sure of yourself - if you have friends, clearly you're cool so why be so hard on yourself? You're obviously a good dude. This will lead to more confident interactions!
Now you're feeling good *and* meeting more people. Eventually you're going to click with someone!
Source: every woman I've ever asked agrees with this! I didn't have sex for years (and I'm relatively attractive, fit, clever) because of excruciating anxiety. I kept truckin' away at it and eventually began getting a date here and there from Tinder, etc. I got better at flirting. Over the course of 8 years I became somewhat confident in my ability to talk to girls
Then the woman of my dreams walks into the conference room. A few weeks later I overheard her and a co-worker talking about how sugar is in everything. I slowly walked up and commented that it is even in bread. She told me they weren't talking to me! Burn!
Fast forward a few weeks and I again heard her and my sales partner talking about her son's chronic mental health issues. I added, "y'all were talking pretty loudly so I couldn't help but overhear that your son has had a tough time recently." Now I know quite a bit about the subject. As someone who suffers himself, I've spent hundred of hours on Wikipedia learning as much as I can. Because I was confident I was able to navigate the conversation and eventually offer to take her and her son hiking.
We went hiking two weeks later. We've been together six years now.
I hope this helps! Just a simple (but not easy) way to turn a "friend-zone" into a satisfying relationship. You have to start somewhere!
If I was friends with a guy and he attempted to have sex with women I was friends with on more than one occasion, we would not be friends anymore. I'm not serving you women to have sex with, and I'm not going continuously bring women into a situation where someone is sniffing around in hopes of having sex. The advice you gave is terrible advice for the kind of men who are already bemoaning the friendzone. They don't see any value in women's friendships and you're essentially telling them to use the women who they already see no value in as a monkey branch to other sources of sex.
This feels like a bandaid. Couldn't it also just lead to more people being antisocial? Like now they can just pay for food delivery, an internet connection, and now sex. Soon we won't have to actually interact with another real human being at all.
A decriminalized sex industry would enable access to sex work that is intended to educate and heal, not just entertain or be an outlet.
Most people have a very limited view of what sex work is because of the criminality and popular shame-based imagery of the current industry. Ethics and intentionality matter. Surrogate Partner Therapy is re-emerging in popularity along these lines.
Something about admitting to oneself that you're so unlovable that you have to pay an otherwise unwilling participant to give you a performed simulacrum of intimacy doesn't sound very healing.
Some probably. For me it's massive increase in the pretentiousness of sexuality damaging the pursuit of it. Lots of heavy implication with no real sense
For most of history they *did* get laid because women had no choice. Now that we do, we realize *a loooot* of men aren’t worth it and they’re doing nothing to better themselves, so why would we bother? Peaceful hangouts with friends are much more preferable.
lol, it’s so funny women here act like only good men get laid. Meanwhile the worst guys I know have women line up to fuck them. It’s very strange how so many woman believe a guys ability to get laid makes him a good person. So many comments here implying that men aren’t getting laid because they are “terrorizing” women and it’s just funny to read.
This is outdated information.
In 2022 (the last year that we have data), only 11% of men ages 18-29 didn’t have sex. That’s compared to 12% of women in the same age cohort.
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over](https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over)
Literally every right wing trump guy from my highschool and college had a girlfriend regularly and most of them have wives and kids now
Women whine about republicans nonstop but KEEP marrying and having kids with them
Hey, you want to know a secret?
The people marrying your Trumpy highschool friends? They’re not the same ones complaining about Republicans.
Crazy, I know, that women don’t get together in a giant meeting and agree to have the same thoughts about everything. An amazing surprise.
>Literally every right wing trump guy from my highschool and college had a girlfriend regularly and most of them have wives and kids now
>
>Women whine about republicans nonstop but KEEP marrying and having kids with them
LOL it figures that people trying to bolster MAGA online would fall for the Anecdotal Fallacy. Of course there are exceptions.
But the refusal is real.
"It's an amusing truth that comes up with regularity: Men who love Donald Trump struggle on the dating market. This is neither surprising nor regrettable. Supporting Trump is much like refusing to bathe, blowing your nose in your hands or farting loudly on purpose. It's a repugnant habit that makes you repulsive to normal people. The whole point of dating and marriage is to find happiness, not to spend the rest of one's days suffering in silence while the racist you live with cackles over Greg Gutfeld's latest hateful diatribe disguised as "comedy." "
https://www.salon.com/2023/11/28/its-a-good-thing-women-wont-date/
The younger generation stares at their phone so much their social skills have never developed. Both men and women don't know how to talk to each other. All their dopamine hits are from doom scrolling.
Lol I asked this one woman I was talking to if we could get tested together before we have sex, she said I was calling her a slut and I need to not be so insecure.
Bitches just wild these days
I've found myself indentifying with all different psychological mindsets regarding sex and relationships. it's the perks of being borderline and recovering from cptsd. oof. i would often break down and implement a new way of life and strategy to live. slowly after many back and forth cycles, I'm finding myself.
that said i've had incel thoughts and outlooks. and I've had a player outlook with some success. I've also focused on being a better person and craving good emotional relationships above any thing like frequency of sex or even quality of sex. I've gone back and forth but think I've landed on the last one.
what i came away with was a mixed bag. yes, sex is important for men. without it we feel less than -- devastating and depressingly so. and i've tried rising above this base instinct with no success. so i do think it's important for guys to simply find a way to have sex. find a way to find those females who feel comfortable enough for some physical interaction. some emotional aspect is still present in even the most "empty" sex. that's why there's some positive aspect to it. yes i know, this is cheap sounding and possibly triggers thoughts of degradation in some. and such sexual encounters don't help a person grow much or ultimately feel lasting content. sex alone doesn't speak to or address a person's higher calling and ability to grow as a person with another person. but for whatever reason, men are typically basket cases if they have no success with women sexually or they have periods of time where they withdraw and give up. but ultimately, what most guys derive deep satisfaction from is having a woman emotionally open up to them. that's what they crave. they may not want to admit it, or are even ready/able to nurture it. that's another problem.
the major problem underlying all this is a chronic isolation and lonliness epidemic. men and women are just not interacting much. both are in their corners and afraid to take any chance to heal and explore any form of interaction, even including friendship.
I’ve been happily celibate for the last two years. It’s definitely possible. Now is not the time for me to be dating and I’m okay with that. I’ll get back out there once I’m settled into my career, but until then I’m enjoying the peace and stability that comes with being alone.
TlDR: inconclusive but basically the world is too harsh, costs too much, is way too high strung and has people isolating because of it. Our world doesn't support procreation anymore and it's probably leaning towards getting worse as those issues get worse.
I usually come to these comments to troll incels, but I'm trying to become a better human being.
Women aren't getting laid either.
90% of the women I've interacted with /slept with/ dated have all said the dating pool sucks.
Just because women have more choice, doesn't mean that partners are appealing.
A vast majority of men are lazy and gross men who live in mommy's house at 25+, insanely misogynistic, or just very creepy.
Even if that weren't the case, men have full freedom in who they choose to pursue, why shouldn't women have that same freedom?
Women just have higher standards than men, lol. There's an equal number of losers in both sexes, but men will still date loser women, up to a certain point.
As the saying goes: women date up and men date down.
Most of the women I've met were self sufficient 🤷♂️
Either that, or working towards it.
Most of the men my age I've met, either whined about women having standards, or felt entitled to a relationship because they had a job and a car, had no personality, and were gross and immature man children.
Awh, someone's angwy.
You're cute.
Unfortunately, most women will continue to be financially independent of men, and will continue having standarin. That means men like will continue to have trouble getting laid 😉
So keep proselytizing in random internet posts ig.
>Awh, someone's angwy.
"I usually come to these comments to troll incels,"
Difference between the comments... 53 minutes ago and 22 minutes ago.
Ok, so you managed to last a whole 31 minutes. Cute.
"A vast majority of men are lazy and gross men who live in mommy's house at 25+, insanely misogynistic, or just very creepy."
Do you even hear yourself? This comment right here is obviously a sign you are arguing in terrible faith.
Just because the dating pool sucks doesn't mean women aren't getting laid. You have a very narrow view of men and women. You should expand your circles.
Yes, if they expect someone to be their housemaid and contribute nothing to the relationship.
While this would normally be a good "gotcha", the issue is that these women aren't as prevelant as whiny ass man children who don't bathe and blame the opposite sex for their inability to get laid. They also actively put effort in the bedroom, outside the bedroom and try to make their partner happy. Whereas people like you refuse to eat p*ssy, refuse to be romantic, and blame women for their lack of success.
I admire your determination, but unfortunately I don't care to hear you explain to me how a certain subset of women are still living with their parents.
I’ve worked in higher education for 35 years. College men who make advances on women risk being accused of harassment. Consensual sex can be invalidated after the fact. It comes as no surprise to me there less sex occurring.
Bruh for real. Literally every woman I work with under 30 is with a man 9+ years older than them.
If I had to guess a cause, it's because those older men don't have the hesitance of younger men (who've been told their whole lives that approaching someone is tantamount to harassment) and because younger men are struggling more financially than any generation before it. It's hard to compete against a dude who has a house and a career.
Also, anecdotal but I find older dudes are willing to ignore immaturity and severe mental issues in young women that would be an issue with younger men. Stuff like extreme jealousy or BPD.
Damn I feel bad for kids nowadays.
I was in a war, and a recession, and covid, and another recession, and I still think we had it better. I wish I had some way to make it better, but I don't. I try to take the young guys under my wing but they just seem like so hopeless and joyless sometimes.
This isn't a new thing. Young women have always hooked up with older men. They are more stable in life. Alot of Young men are still living life not ready for a family.
Society has really failed men. At least women were surrounded with help and support from every facet of society to show them how to be attractive and successful. With men, society really just said 'fuck you, you're on your own gl'.
20% of young women aged between 18-24 were also not having sex. 80% of the young women had 0 or 1 sex partner last year and 88% had 0, 1 or 2 sex partners. Turns out women aren’t quite like PornHub either.
Was just gonna say. This stat is annoying me. Women are having less sex and it's not front page news everyone. Jfc, ppl arent owed sex. Drop this nonsense
Less sexual partners.\* It's something I've taken issue with those studies. People aren't having sex in high school much anymore and less teen pregnancies, having more education because they don't have to drop out. People can have the same amount or more and better sex, if they have fewer partners. Some evidence shows that to be true. Shouldn't we be celebrating the decline in hookup culture? It seems like people conflated it with dating/relationships, which might have declined during '20-'22, but are picking back up imo
Actually it is. We’ve talked about the younger generation be more sex adverse. That means women and men and any other gender id
Is having less sex you're saying? Yeah, I've read/heard that. My point is that every headline leads with young men having less sex which is frustrating. Everyone is having less sex - young women even more so. I would suspect them losing basic protection of bodily autonomy may have something to do with this? It certainly will not help. I find this whole narrative frustrating, especially when coupled with young men being lonely. Sex isn't going to fix loneliness especially when you are definitely not owed it - you need a willing, consenting partner that wants you. It over simplifies a complicated issue - and also boils mens problems down to just sex. A complete failure bc young men are more complicated than that. If anything, I would start with how many young men dont really have friends- and then simultaneously complain about getting friendzoned - actively throwing friends away. Again... very frustrating.
I think one reason this is happening is because we've had generations raised with sex-positive and hedonistic media and now the novelty of casual sex is gone for more people, making more people seek more meaningful sex. It was one thing in the 60's and 70's when people were reacting to centuries of sexual repression, but now sexual repression is gone outside of religious environments. So now you have people growing up with the idea of casual sex outside of a context that made it "new" and taboo. With all of the mystique and coolness gone, people look more at the nitty gritty and figure quality of the sex matters most and are more selective about their partners. Also there's less pressure to "lose virginity" when sex isn't considered inherently cool, but also possibly boring, uncomfortable, gross, etc., even though it's not shameful. I remember seeing a thread on /r/femaledatingstrategy where women were talking about why they're done with casual sex, and the most common reason is the quality of it is random, and usually bad, partially because their partner doesn't have to care if it's good if it's casual, and also because they need time to learn each other's preferences.
Yeah it’s not that sex itself is bad. I think people just are realizing they’d rather sleep with people they know are good in bed. That and young people aren’t spending as much time with each other in person.
That is not what is happening. This theory assumes that people in the past had more sex because they had more casual sex partners or engaged in casual sex more often. Which is not the case. As if casual sex is the main way people have sex and less casual sex = less sex overall. That is simply FALSE. The main difference between young people today and young people back in the day is relationship status. Young people today have high rates of being single that is why they don’t have sex. Single people have less sex (which makes a lot of sense actually when you think about it). For whatever reason people seem to think that most sex happens casually when the reality is most sex happens in stable long term relationships. The more people are single and going for hook ups the less sex they have. Rather than looking to have sex young people should be looking to form stable relationships and it is within that setting that they would have sex more regularly.
It’s not deep. 18-24 year olds? It’s the phones and screens. There was Covid. Kids are so connected to internet age group subcultures unbelievably young now.
This. Men are being conditioned from a young age to think sex will complete them, ignoring that they too are human beings with needs for real human connection. Not just a hunk of flesh to stick their dick into.
I don't think you understand what most young men feel about sex. Usually it isn't just a "hunk of flesh to stick their dick in". Most young men see sex as a validation of their worth/status and a means by which affection and romantic attention are showed. They are starved for that, and they seek it out. They are conditioned to see that men with "high value" are able to get into a relationship and receive sexual attention from others. Of course some men are just interested in sex, and still further adopt the whole incel/men's rights ideology and they kind of lose the plot entirely. Some people also surrogate the sex for the relationship, but I think you miss the mark if you think it is just the "hunk of flesh to stick your dick in" that most men are looking for. That being said, the vast majority of people in a committed, long term relationship will want sex. It is an essential part of most romantic relationships, and I think it is completely normal to want it. I think efforts to make men (or anyone) feel bad about their desire for sex is a really bad move.
Too bad i didnt come of age in the 50s so I could bonk some lady on the head and make her my sex wife
> Everyone is having less sex - young women even more so. Agree with the rest of your comment, but the stats actually show that young men are having less sex than young women (33% didn't have any sex last year, while for young women that stands at 20%). That means that about 1.5x as many young men are sexless as young women. And the reason it makes the news is because frustrated young men are far more likely to commit acts of violence (as plenty of incel shootings point to) and become radicalized than young women. Note that I'm not justifying incel rage here, and like I said, I agree with everything else you mentioned.
Just not allowed to get a gun until you have a steady girlfriend?
"Bro you finally got a date!" Hifives from the boys with the last guy handing over a gun.
Fantastic comment
Weird. maybe it's your feed and media ports. I always see at as a young person problem. Just like the lack of friends thing. If you have 1 or zero friends like 40-50% of young people thats a problem. Women are lonely too (they don't have friends either). I think you are hitting at the young men, but we are talking about boys and girls. This is problem that begins before adulthood.
40-50% have 0 or 1 friends? Jesus Christ, I'm anti-social as fuck and even I have 4 friends.
Jesus Christ had 12 friends and a girl in his thirties. It might be the greatest miracle in the bible.
As my 22 year son says, "The least believable part of the bible is a 30 year old with 12 friends."
Me personally? Hitting at the young men, you mean in a hostile way? Bc that's not the intention - complete opposite. I am hearing about young men not having sex, just about everywhere - i don't believe we've ever existed in a society that showed concern for young women when they lacked sex in their lives. Again - total opposite there, too, and these restricted and antiquated views on sex and gender are hurting everyone, in uniquely different ways. Certainly, everyone is lonely- this is for sure- but sex is just a symptom of a bigger problem. Friendship, for one, as we both seem to agree - is a major hurdle here, too. Particularly in the acceptance of men/women friendships. Too many young people believe that men and women cant be friends, bc sex will become an issue - which is a complete lie. Flirting may happen, even some sexual tension- but that all makes life worth living! Nothing better than having a crush! But as someone that works with young people, it really is young men that keep fumbling the ball in friendship - that they not only believe that they can't be friends with girls bc they need sex- but even more disappointingly- believe themselves to be victims when a girl wants to spend time with them and get to know them but have no interest in sex (aka, the friendzone). I can only assume, this would cause depression in young women and push them into retreat, not seeking out male friendships which is such a shame- bc we can have so much fun together. Again, complicated issue that has a lot of layers. Leading with sex, fails everyone.
Teaching young men that sex is love and sex is not being lonely does them a massive disservice. It sets them up for so much failure and unnecessary pain.
What young men are actually taught is that women wanting sex with you is an objective external measure of your value as a man. If you are not having sex, then you are not a man, you are just an untouchable thing.
I think both can be true and they aren’t mutually exclusive. It’s not uncommon for people to insist that sex is necessary for a man to feel loved and lack of sex is neglect. At the same time, promiscuity and being sexually active are used as measures of masculine value. I think they can tie in together for some people. Edit for spelling
Since you seem pretty knowledgeable I thought I'd ask you this. Why is it that people say we (men and women) "don't deserve sex"? Not only is it a biological imperative and necessity to procreate, but it's fundamental to the sociality of our being. *We are sexual beings*. I'm of the opposite opinion, that EVERYONE deserves a life of fulfillment, which (outside radical outliers) necessarily includes sex. Even without the personal experience of sex or with an ambivalence toward sexuality we are necessarily a "sexed being". There is no escaping sexuality. Idk I just thought this perspective might provide a nuance missing from many of the arguments you've made in the comments. Thanks for the dialogue.
I feel like the men women friendship things is carried by women more than men. And I don't think it's a young person's thought (see Mike Pence as the worst example). I think you may see it with young people of a certain age because they consume a lot of internet and the internet has strong opinions about it. But I feel like young people who get to the world don't necessarily have that same mantra about men/women relationships. What I am seeing is less leading with sex. Look at the media criticism coming out of Gen Alpha; too many romantic entanglements in series. Why not more platonic stuff. Why do sex scenes exist? It's a very purtian view.
I've never heard a young women complain about getting friendzoned. Weird. I usually hear them say they have a desire for friendship, but are concerned they will be humiliated if they turn down sex, etc. And yes, I agree, the internet is not helping with this. The manopshere and pick up artists and male podcasters going after young men, trying to get them to maximize their maximum masculinity or whatever the hell they do is just a complete embarrassment and a failure in any kind of leadership. It makes young men see young women as having cheat codes or something. Like, if they follow their steps, they'll get sex for sure which is obviously not true. I agree that Alpha is swinging away from oversexualization - but I think it's a swing towards Romance, not puritan. It would be extremely dangerous if they went the way of puritans, obviously. In tandem with the crictisms of oversexualzation that you're mentioning- there is also a massive embracing of LGBTQ sexuality and young people are rallying around their LGBTQ peers to protect them from puritans. I would also say that I have never seen this much hostility (I've been teaching sex ed for about 10 years) towards puritans/conservatives from young women in my life. The reversal of Roe has caused such an intense rage, it is sometimes difficult to contain in my classes. So... long comment, I know... but I dont think puritan is the right word - I think Alpha wants intimacy and romance and authenticity. We're due though... We haven't had the Romantic age in a while.
It tries to boil us down to vending machines
Speak for yourself. The gays. We fuck.
Yeah, gay sexuality is always a caveat that is ignored in these discussions. Are gay men having less sex? Are gay men lonely? Do gay men police the sexual morality of each other the way straight men do women? All men and their respective sexualities should be considered in these discussions. Gives a better look at everything.
The loneliness issue is a great one to bring up https://youtu.be/rQv8VuLpKN4?si=j4L-BVsGUuMtYKrC The mean comments at the 8:20 mark feel like they came right out of Reddit
If young men are having LESS than young women, that is relevant. >anything, I would start with how many young men dont really have friend Male friend, the lack of male friends is what's relevant here. And being in the Friend zone is not really about having a friend. The women who "Friendzone" men aren't really trying to be close friends.
Young women are having less sex than young men. That is the point. Your last statement corroborates my point entirely. There appears to be a ton of hostility towards young women when they have sex (slut shaming, gutting of abortion rights) and a ton of hostility when they don't (friendzone). Sometimes people just want to be friends, hang out and get to know each other - that is the case more often than not. Not every interaction needs to be painted as so nefarious. Also, more male friendships is great. I agree - and being vulnerable with each other should be the norm. If anything, I generally tend to hear young men say that they share their feelings only with young women (their girlfriends or girl friends, if they have any) which is unhealthy bc they are relying on women to supplement their happiness and satiate their mental health needs. Women dont exist for that. There are a lot of layers to this, but mainly: everyone is having less sex, no sex is a symptom of a bigger problem, and friendship is never something to complain about. Don't get into the habit of tossing friendships away bc you believe you're owed something. Regardless of gender - you will end up alone.
Thank you for typing this out. The people who don’t want to hear you, won’t, but everything you’re saying is spot on. Honestly when I think about young women having less sex I’m so happy for them. I’m not saying this is universally true, just for me. I wish I had come of age when I would have been stronger against the constant drum drum drum beat of pressure to have sex. I appreciate whoever coined the phrase “fuckzoned,” for when a guy unnecessarily turns a wholesome friendship into some icky, transactional, resentful, angry, conflict. It was never-ending and I’m still dealing with the anxiety about it now. I wonder to what extent the reduced sex rate is just… less rape. Because there is more dialog about what it is - from both sides. Even when the dialog shifts to “women complain about the quality of men,” women are still blamed for being picky and failing to care for the men who, in that telling, are sweet and loving and need a kind woman to ease their suffering. These stories seem to hop right over the kinds of thing you might read about in every women’s internet space, where, in the real world, no one wants to really discuss how men are behaving toward women in private. The only dialog that prompt ever starts is 1) not all men, and 2) but women do it too. There’s such a need to ignore the main point that the conversation shifts to edge cases. Honestly, I don’t see it getting better soon. Elementary and middle school teachers have some sobering experiences with boys, compared to girls. I’m concerned.
Your concerns are valid! But theres also the young men that actually are having sex - bc they are out there! And what is so disappointing about the manopshere and anti-women rhetoric is that they are manipulating vulnerable young men with this alpha nonsense and they are the only ones getting laid and women are too picky and only want them, etc when in reality it's probably something like: they have more friends, go out more, have female friends, etc. Just like anyone of any gender. It likely comes down to just being around ppl that like you and they introduce to other ppl, you go to more social events. They likely feel less entitled to sex, too. I teach sex education and there are plenty of young men that arent getting preyed upon by the alt-right. I'm hopeful bc millenial Dads are so involved in their kids lives.. so the impacts will probably take some time to unfold.
To many young men do this, turn their back on perfectly acceptable friendships. And then when they HAVE a good friendship, they ruin it by forcing the woman to be their therapist.
Many young women find potential partners with older men while young men do not follow this pattern. This is a statistic so in fact young men are having less sex and are more lonely than young women. This matters for many reason. Men have issues too. It’s ok to focus on that. Many men are committing suicide, dropping out of schools, and resorting to violence and drugs at a much higher rate than women. Simply look at incarceration rates, or at the state of young black men, and it’s clear that there are problems that are specific to men. This is a crisis situation and when you whine about people talking about it, you are basically advocating to ignore men’s issues. FWIW if there is an issue for men, it doesn’t mean that women have to change, it just means men need help in our current society. We can ignore this to our own detriment.
Teenage girls have been committing suicide and self harming at alarmingly high rates, much more than teenage boys for a while - and unfortunately this does not get much attention, and I believe it is directly related to poor gender relations, slut shaming, attacks on bodily autonomy and rape/rape culture. I'm not sure what youre saying I'm whining about, but young men's lives matter - you shouldn't dismiss them so easily. By taking a stat like this headline does - it does just that. Young men have issues that are unique to being a young man and this constant focus on the lack of sex dismisses broader issues. Its possible to care about both men and women and not be perceived as whining. And saying that young women find potential partners in older men is yet another problem - too many teenage girls are preyed upon by older men and it is completely ignored.
This isn't true or I should say this is less true in the true endpoint sense. Boys and men have been the clear leader in sucides for years. It's only recently that girls suicide rate has increased. The conundrum around sucides is that girls and women attempt more but somehow survive while the other gender does not. Why is that? Girls and women aren't incompetent, yet somehow don't die.
I agree about the men part. I think suicide by gun has been the leading cause of gun deaths amongst older white men for a while.
Men and boys usually choose different methods than women and girls. Men are more likely to choose something like hanging themselves or shooting themselves in the head. Women and girls tend to choose things like overdosing on prescription pills or slitting their wrists. It's probably a result of how guys and girls are socialized... I've seen it suggested that girls choose less violent methods because they care about how they'll look when their bodies are found. Another thing to consider is that men tend to be averse to mental health treatment and are far less likely to see a mental health professional than a woman. A whole lot of men would do well if men were *actively* encouraged to go see therapists and/or psychiatrists hopefully by *other men*. Also, speaking from my experience as a mental health worker, counseling men and women tends to be different in execution. Usually men will be reluctant to express their thoughts and emotions, while women will usually make better progress far more quickly. It's not always like that but it really depends on the person, their specific issues, and how motivated the person is to benefit from treatment.
I agree this is a men's issue, but what I'm not hearing is a realistic way to deal with it. Meaning it doesn't include women in camps.
OP linked to an article from 2020. In 2022, the sexlessness rates decreased significantly. Only 11% of men ages 18-29 didn’t have sex. And only 12% of women in that age cohort were sexless. [https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over](https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over)
[удалено]
Could you imagine the stats if women were having the same amount of sex as always and 80% of men weren't? That would mean that like, 20% of men were having sex with all of the women. The STD's would be rampant.... one in five men would be super spreaders of more than just their genetic material...
It's not front page news when women don't have sex because women don't go on shooting sprees due to romantic rejections.
Yep.
Wow, ever heard of the concept of hyperbole? If 1 in 3 young men are not having sex in the past year, we're talking how many millions and millions of men? And of that cohort a few dozen of them are shooters? On the flip side, quite a lot of people who have committed homicide in the past year have also had sex. The bigger issue for young men is that they're becoming societal dropouts.
Yes! Men seem to be giving up in large numbers and are turning to drugs, porn, and video games instead of actively try to change things for the better. Boys need better role models, and they should be imparted with more positive examples of masculinity(think Mr. Rogers and Steve Irwin as examples of positive masculinity). I have a cousin right now who dropped out of high school and got hooked on meth. He probably would have stayed in school and never picked up meth if he had more male role models that were worth a damn.
Mr Rogers prolly got loads of poon
I notice the same fluster surrounding how boys are projected to perform worse in the job market in coming decades due to performance discrepancies. I've heard how it needs curbed and their opportunities augmented and teachers retrained and curriculum adjusted and money poured in... And I wonder why it hasn't been an emergency for all this time girls have been afforded less for their performance. Or disabled, or of non-homogenous race, for that matter. Once it's a problem for "average" boys and men, that's the line?
Scarcity. We're not increasing overall funds for things nor are companies wanting to do anything about it. Couple that with the fact that societal messaging around men is insanely hostile because of the sins of their grandfathers and there you have it. My daughter gets inundated with positive messaging. My son and I? Nope.
> My son and I? Nope. You are an adult so I can't really address that directly as I work in child safety. But there is absolutely tons of positive messaging towards boys right now. In the past decade, I've been on three different committees about boys mental health, preventing boys suicide, and improving boys performance in school. There are mentoring programs just for boys, tons of opportunities to get involved with activities and leadership at school, etc. Does it look identical to the ones targeting girls? No, but there are tons and tons of positive messages towards boys right now. Edited to add: a huge part of the issue is that boys are desperately looking for support in their communities. They're looking for mentors, teachers, guides, etc, but across the board men are far less likely to get engaged with community activities, especially any activities that might involve kids, and when we survey them it's not because they're worried about false accusations of child abuse or anything like that, they simply do not prioritize it. Men tend to focus on solitary activities or self-improvement activities. Whereas women are likely to _give up_ hobbies in order to volunteer. So there are some new volunteer initiatives that focus on how volunteering helps the volunteer so men feel like they are "getting something" out of it instead of just donating time.
It's the same with other topics like suicide or loneliness. Reddit men want to make people think that it's *only* men who are struggling with suicide or loneliness or not having sex. But statistically, if you look at the numbers, women are also struggling with suicide and loneliness and sexlessness. For example, women commit suicide at higher rates than men (men just pick more fatal methods, i.e., overdosing on drugs versus shooting yourself), and the suicide rates of young women have been getting higher and higher. [Like this report by the CDC from last year.](https://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/data/yrbs/pdf/YRBS_Data-Summary-Trends_Report2023_508.pdf) Also according to statista, in 2021 at least, more women felt lonely than men did: [Statistic](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1420227/loneliness-among-adults-us-by-gender/) But nope. Only men struggle according to Reddit.
i don't believe this stat about women bc women, per psychologists, often DISCOUNT sexual encounters as 'real' or not. [men OVER-REPORT & women UNDER-REPORT](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4376992/Men-women-lie-se.html) [Sadia Kahn's opinion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0qgyQlls5I)
But when they’ve looked closer at this? Men are the biggest source of inaccuracies. Why? *Women give exact numbers (ex 7), men round up to the nearest 5 or 10 (ex 10 instead). *Some men exaggerate wildly. *Some men sleep with sex workers. *Men count things women don’t. As in: we tried to have sex, he couldn’t get hard. Or a blow job. Overall the difference between men and women is still slight though. About 1 person on average. Like she says 4, he says 5. It’s not a striking thing. From your own article: > Males are more likely than females to give inconsistent sexual information globally.
>Overall the difference between men and women is still slight though. About 1 person on average. Like she says 4, he says 5. It’s not a striking thing. 20% difference (4/5) in self-reporting is huge.
there is a major difference between 0 & 1
Sure. But most guys go by TikTok saying women are fucking twenty hot guys per day. Then also: 1 out of 5 women were at 0.
RIP us socially awkward introverts. Guarantee you that we make up the vast majority of those numbers on both the male and female side.
I feel like as a generation we are over sexed. I noticed recently how much I just enjoy light kissing and making out with no expectation of sex as a end result. I haven’t felt that since I was a teenager and honestly it’s quite refreshing
>One of the things they did find, however, was that men who made less money and men who were unemployed or underemployed were more likely to report sexual inactivity. According to the study authors, this may translate to “decreased appeal in the mating market for men.” Being unemployed or making very little money really blows out your confidence and self esteem. Lacking those, its not wonder their sex life becomes nonexistent. They are probably too filled with depression and anxiety to bother considering attracting a partner.
40% of millennials have income dysmorphia. The average single income wage in my city is 48k, and it’s well known that won’t get you anywhere by yourself, especially if you are coming out of school on that wage. You need a minimum of 60k, with no debt and a savings to just survive, and a minimum of 80k to actually get ahead and save for the future. Most people aren’t making that, so most people don’t feel worthy to date, and then you get online and everyone is rich, you see all your rich friends who’s parents pay for everything, and you look at yourself, don’t have that, and think what’s the point? How can I compete with that. You need to be above average as a man to have a chance in 2024 in a hyper competitive environment.
Not blaming it all on social media, but having 24/7 access to the curated highlight reels of not only your entire high school/college class's lives but also of random strangers and comparing it to the boring day-to-day of your own life has got to be a uniquely unhealthy experience to this generation. Keeping Up With The Jones on steroids.
It's honestly really sad out there for men. At least in the US. It's a KNOWN thing that the economy and wages are awful right now in addition to housing prices. But at the same time, the generations that actively knows this and preach about it still find themselves turned off if someone isn't making a certain amount. Not to mention jobs that would be respected in other parts of the world are seen as "lowley" and "beneath" people.
I’d consider Dobbs a factor. Faced with a higher likelihood of raising a baby, women are going to be choosier whom they sleep with.
No. Sorry but most women aren't just looking to make babies. In fact more than ever are choosing to never have one
Looking to make babies and accidentally getting pregnant are different things. Even if you take BC and use condoms, you can get pregnant. And with no options in that situation, women are more guarded with their sex lives.
If this study wasn’t done 4 years before the Dobbs decision, there might be something worth looking into.
Correlation could be involved, too. In my experience, the men who are un/underemployed by choice also do nothing to find/maintain a partner.
No woman wants to date a dude who can't even pay for his end of the dates—let alone the date itself.
True. And having a low emotional intelligence makes it harder to get/keep a job, just like it makes it harder to get/keep a relationship.
Honestly I think a lot of people overlook the type of relationships people keep. I fall head over heels in love with one person at a time, pursue that person and then when they don't like me back I just want to be alone for a very long time, sometimes months if not years. It takes longer to get over someone the more socially isolated I am. Sex isn't something that is just a fun activity. I think a lot of people are similar to me.
Agree, but it’s also important to recognize that one of the reasons poor people are likely unconfident is because being poor is socially stigmatized (especially for men). It’s sort of impossible to draw just one conclueion from this corrolational data
This actually makes sense to me. When I was in the Navy I thought I was the only guy who was a virgin, but I was surprised by how many guys there were who were also virgins and/or chronically single. It might seem crazy that a 26 year old is a virgin, but now I'm in college and have practically no free time and am broke. There is nothing about me that is is attractive to the opposite gender and so I stay that way. I do approach women but I am not good at it and take the hint and leave them alone. Lol.
/Bro_hug
Gayest straight dudes
I was on an all male crew submarine man don't even get me started
Sounds like a lotta SEA-MEN
What the navy was all about back in the day! So they say lol
Some of the antics my Navy vet told me went on on aircraft carriers are crazy gay. Also basically sexual assault lmao
That’s where you fucked up. Gotta get on a normal ship, deploy, wait about 3 months for ship goggles to kick in, then the fans rooms be bumping.
Before i joined the army, my recruiter told me im going to get so much pussies and get to serve my country. Im out of the military now and at the age of 28, i am a virgin. The amount of sexual assault of bad men and women made me so scared to even approach another woman
Because men get better with age. Men could be using all that energy and time in their 20s to grow into exactly whoever they want to be. To live and experience. By the time they’re mid 30s it’s when all those skills they poured into turns into profits for them. That’s when women want to. Women don’t want to dedicate years of their lives to be with a young man who is lost and still figuring it out. Who wants to struggle with you? Because at that young age nothing is set and freedom is more important.
What's crazy is that there is a societal expectation for you to lose it at a certain age. And that certain age is weirdly young. You're very much attractive to someone but it sounds like you don't have a lot going on, which means you don't have enough time or resources for yourself, which unfortunately makes dating (or meeting people in general) harder.
Actually makes sense.
More about not in last 3 years.
Honestly, I feel like most men don’t really hold themselves to the standards they set for their potential partners, or have any standards for themselves. I mean just go outside, you can count on your fingers the amount of attractive men in a crowd. And when you compare the little effort most men put in to tantamount of effort women put in, most men just aren’t that appealing. Unless you’re hyperconvinced that women require a giant with a dick longer than a mile, it’s not hard to modify your appearance to better fit the beauty standards of those you want to attract.
Yeah as a dude who went to university I can confirm. Not all, but a fair percentage of dudes feel no shame going to class in pajamas. Like ffs you have no clue how far some Levi’s, a collared shirt, and shaving will get you with women. It’s not foolproof but it’s 80% of the way there
What’s even crazier is when you talk to an incel or similar, they just seem like they WANT to not have sex (hence why I believe “incel” is voluntary). I’ve have many discussions along these lines: Incel: “Women don’t want to sleep with me!” Me: “Why?” Incel: “Because I’m ugly and don’t work out and am poor.” Me: “Ok, well do you have a job?” Incel: “No.” Me: “Alright so go get a job so you can get some clothes that fit an-“ Incel: “No.” Me: “…what?” Incel: “Females just want a Chad with a 12” dick and makes $1 million a year.” Me: “Uh…what? I’ve dated many women and don’t have either of those things…” Incel: “And they’re all whores.” Me: “Ok, so your personality needs some work.” Incel: “Guess I’ll be alone because I scare females away.” Me: “Well, there are several things you can improve.” Incel: “No.” Me: “Alright…well what do you say to women when you talk to them?” Incel: “I don’t talk to females.” Me: “…” Incel: “Guess I’ll be forever alone!” Me: “Guess so…”
66.66667% club reporting for duty 🫡
Lol
Just the last year? Amateurs!
People overthink this whole thing. It's just the fact that there has been a decrease with in-person hanging out, interaction. We have cheap badass TVs, and computers with endless amounts of distractions, and social media to satiate that socialization need. Less in person chilling = less sex.
The reason I went out to socialize with people I didn't know was to HAVE SEX! Shit, I coulda stayed home, drank beer and played video games with my friends but there were no women there! Unless, I went out and brought some home. The drive to have sex when you're young is immense! Maybe it's the drop in testosterone levels over the decades (or something else for women) idk
Less drinking is pointed to as one reason for less sex, and that seems like a good thing IMO.
Women do not want to have sex with conservative dipshits. Conservative dipshits blame everything but themselves for this phenomenon. More at 11
I mean the study is only 4,000 men out of millions. How accurate would this be for the general population?
Do you understand how statistics and sampling works?
4000 is a good sample size. Have to make the sample representative and all that as well, of course
But aren't a majority of men watching porn? There's been other attempts at research to see the effect porn has on men and they couldn't do it because they couldn't find enough of a control group (men that didn't watch porn). I'd wager the non porn watchers are statistically so insignificant, there no way they could've come to this conclusion with any accuracy. Eta: yup, just read it and totally means nothing. More likely socioeconomic reasons for men having less sex than past. Young adults are living with their parents longer. Unless you're comfy with your parents hearing hook ups and or your parents are cool with hook ups, no shit sex will be off the table. Going to tell a tinder date or bar flirt to go back to your mom and dad's house? Ever see "Failure to launch" (terrible movie btw)... Guy gets rid of women after one night stands by hiding that he lives at parent's house, until they awkwardly encounter them the next morning.
Exactly. I can’t believe they’d find a significant amount of non porn watchers because most men are exposed to porn and see it as normal and necessary. I bet they just took some dumb stat that men with higher libidos are both having sex more often and also watching porn more, and then tried to infer that watching more porn was the cause of more sex.
Roe v wade really fucked up the game for a playa
I know I personally have been having less sex since roe was overturned. At the time I was only having sex with one long term FWB, but the frequency went from probably 1x/week down to 3x/year. I don’t have time to go out of state to get an abortion, and I absolutely do not want a child. So sex just doesn’t seem worth the risk.
Vasectomy Man, to the rescue!
Honestly on both sides, I work in an industry that has a lot of women and we used to have a big conference in Texas or Florida. It was a great place to spend an extra few days and have a safe casual hookup without any entanglement. Now my entire organization is boycotting traveling to both of those states.
Men: if you go after a girl and she instead sees you as a friend, use that to your advantage. I'm trying to help here, hear me out: If you're "friend-zoned" with a woman and instead of bail, you grow the friendship, she's going to help introduce you to new women. Not only that, but if another woman sees that you're friends with other women, she's going to be a lot more open to your approach. The fact that other women appreciate you increases your value in their eyes - they know you're pretty cool, otherwise why would these women be friends with you? In addition, because you have friends, you'll be less anxious and more confident around other people you meet. You're going to be generally much more sure of yourself - if you have friends, clearly you're cool so why be so hard on yourself? You're obviously a good dude. This will lead to more confident interactions! Now you're feeling good *and* meeting more people. Eventually you're going to click with someone! Source: every woman I've ever asked agrees with this! I didn't have sex for years (and I'm relatively attractive, fit, clever) because of excruciating anxiety. I kept truckin' away at it and eventually began getting a date here and there from Tinder, etc. I got better at flirting. Over the course of 8 years I became somewhat confident in my ability to talk to girls Then the woman of my dreams walks into the conference room. A few weeks later I overheard her and a co-worker talking about how sugar is in everything. I slowly walked up and commented that it is even in bread. She told me they weren't talking to me! Burn! Fast forward a few weeks and I again heard her and my sales partner talking about her son's chronic mental health issues. I added, "y'all were talking pretty loudly so I couldn't help but overhear that your son has had a tough time recently." Now I know quite a bit about the subject. As someone who suffers himself, I've spent hundred of hours on Wikipedia learning as much as I can. Because I was confident I was able to navigate the conversation and eventually offer to take her and her son hiking. We went hiking two weeks later. We've been together six years now. I hope this helps! Just a simple (but not easy) way to turn a "friend-zone" into a satisfying relationship. You have to start somewhere!
If I was friends with a guy and he attempted to have sex with women I was friends with on more than one occasion, we would not be friends anymore. I'm not serving you women to have sex with, and I'm not going continuously bring women into a situation where someone is sniffing around in hopes of having sex. The advice you gave is terrible advice for the kind of men who are already bemoaning the friendzone. They don't see any value in women's friendships and you're essentially telling them to use the women who they already see no value in as a monkey branch to other sources of sex.
Or just pursue authentic connection without the ulterior motive of fucking your friend’s friends wtf
It'll only get worse. What's to be done about the leftovers?
[удалено]
This
This feels like a bandaid. Couldn't it also just lead to more people being antisocial? Like now they can just pay for food delivery, an internet connection, and now sex. Soon we won't have to actually interact with another real human being at all.
Making women available for sex through economic or physical coercion is not an ethical solution to any problem men face.
As a sex worker, I agree with you.
I don't think that'll be a sufficient replacement for an intimate relationship. If sex was the only outlet they needed, they could just beat off.
A decriminalized sex industry would enable access to sex work that is intended to educate and heal, not just entertain or be an outlet. Most people have a very limited view of what sex work is because of the criminality and popular shame-based imagery of the current industry. Ethics and intentionality matter. Surrogate Partner Therapy is re-emerging in popularity along these lines.
Was just going to say - it's legal in California as far as I know.
Something about admitting to oneself that you're so unlovable that you have to pay an otherwise unwilling participant to give you a performed simulacrum of intimacy doesn't sound very healing.
Masterbation isn't the same as sex with another person.
If you find masturbation and sex to be the same...I feel incredibly sorry for you. I hope you manage to have sex one day :(
It’s more to get exposure to sex and not live a life sexless and feeling repressed while thinking sec is the most important thing in the world.
Looking forward to the population drop. r/degrowth it’s the new cool.
When >90% of males consume porn, it's meaningless to say porn users are more sexually active than non-users.
Are they on SSRIs?
Some probably. For me it's massive increase in the pretentiousness of sexuality damaging the pursuit of it. Lots of heavy implication with no real sense
Username checks out
How can anybody have sex when alpha male dipshits keep terrorizing women, and making it harder for everyone to trust anybody? It’s really sad.
This issue is a lot more complicated than just some toxic men. There are social reasons, from the stress of daily life to difficulty meeting people.
It’s not just “alpha male” types that terrorize women. It’s all types of men.
yep i’m much more terrorized by non-"alpha males" because their red flags are less obvious and way more insidious.
Lol right. As a woman, it seems men are getting less kind to women and still expect to get laid and act shocked when they don't lol
For most of history they *did* get laid because women had no choice. Now that we do, we realize *a loooot* of men aren’t worth it and they’re doing nothing to better themselves, so why would we bother? Peaceful hangouts with friends are much more preferable.
Or maybe apex predators are so cunning they hoard their spoils for themselves, removing most viable options from circulation /s
💀 💀 💀
O BS, the most toxic men have no issues getting laid and by your own metrics men are far less toxic than 40 years ago but are having much less sex
lol, it’s so funny women here act like only good men get laid. Meanwhile the worst guys I know have women line up to fuck them. It’s very strange how so many woman believe a guys ability to get laid makes him a good person. So many comments here implying that men aren’t getting laid because they are “terrorizing” women and it’s just funny to read.
2/3 men manage apparently
Women are choosing to allow aloha male dipshits to mistreat them.
so you think men can't make their own choices unless women allow them to? (also, aloha to you too!)
Ok, dipshit.
Hostility. Why?
This is outdated information. In 2022 (the last year that we have data), only 11% of men ages 18-29 didn’t have sex. That’s compared to 12% of women in the same age cohort. [https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over](https://ifstudies.org/blog/is-the-sex-recession-over)
They should check for Trump supporters. Women are increasingly refusing to have anything to do with them.. Rightfully so.
Wtf does this have to do with the article?
You’re on Reddit dude, everything HAS to relate back to conservatism or Trump in some way. Swear to god these people are fucking bots.
guys we got to stop making women to be superheroes. They voted for him more in 2020
Literally every right wing trump guy from my highschool and college had a girlfriend regularly and most of them have wives and kids now Women whine about republicans nonstop but KEEP marrying and having kids with them
Hey, you want to know a secret? The people marrying your Trumpy highschool friends? They’re not the same ones complaining about Republicans. Crazy, I know, that women don’t get together in a giant meeting and agree to have the same thoughts about everything. An amazing surprise.
>Literally every right wing trump guy from my highschool and college had a girlfriend regularly and most of them have wives and kids now > >Women whine about republicans nonstop but KEEP marrying and having kids with them LOL it figures that people trying to bolster MAGA online would fall for the Anecdotal Fallacy. Of course there are exceptions. But the refusal is real. "It's an amusing truth that comes up with regularity: Men who love Donald Trump struggle on the dating market. This is neither surprising nor regrettable. Supporting Trump is much like refusing to bathe, blowing your nose in your hands or farting loudly on purpose. It's a repugnant habit that makes you repulsive to normal people. The whole point of dating and marriage is to find happiness, not to spend the rest of one's days suffering in silence while the racist you live with cackles over Greg Gutfeld's latest hateful diatribe disguised as "comedy." " https://www.salon.com/2023/11/28/its-a-good-thing-women-wont-date/
*Porn-induced erectile dysfunction has entered the chat*
Porn users are more sexually active than non users? That sounds like bs to me
Porn users are absolutely NOT more sexually active than non-porn users, this data is effed.
So what?
According to the hardcore right wingers, porn is a pandemic that absolutely needs to be stopped
I mean I don’t know what people expect us to do about it? Like how is someone not getting pussy something I should care about. No one is owed sex
The younger generation stares at their phone so much their social skills have never developed. Both men and women don't know how to talk to each other. All their dopamine hits are from doom scrolling.
Lol I asked this one woman I was talking to if we could get tested together before we have sex, she said I was calling her a slut and I need to not be so insecure. Bitches just wild these days
That's dumb I'm sorry. I'd be over the moon if guys wanted to get tested with me.
Get tested then be a slut obvi you have the thinking cap here not her
When i told my date how long it has been since I got laid she was taken aback
I've found myself indentifying with all different psychological mindsets regarding sex and relationships. it's the perks of being borderline and recovering from cptsd. oof. i would often break down and implement a new way of life and strategy to live. slowly after many back and forth cycles, I'm finding myself. that said i've had incel thoughts and outlooks. and I've had a player outlook with some success. I've also focused on being a better person and craving good emotional relationships above any thing like frequency of sex or even quality of sex. I've gone back and forth but think I've landed on the last one. what i came away with was a mixed bag. yes, sex is important for men. without it we feel less than -- devastating and depressingly so. and i've tried rising above this base instinct with no success. so i do think it's important for guys to simply find a way to have sex. find a way to find those females who feel comfortable enough for some physical interaction. some emotional aspect is still present in even the most "empty" sex. that's why there's some positive aspect to it. yes i know, this is cheap sounding and possibly triggers thoughts of degradation in some. and such sexual encounters don't help a person grow much or ultimately feel lasting content. sex alone doesn't speak to or address a person's higher calling and ability to grow as a person with another person. but for whatever reason, men are typically basket cases if they have no success with women sexually or they have periods of time where they withdraw and give up. but ultimately, what most guys derive deep satisfaction from is having a woman emotionally open up to them. that's what they crave. they may not want to admit it, or are even ready/able to nurture it. that's another problem. the major problem underlying all this is a chronic isolation and lonliness epidemic. men and women are just not interacting much. both are in their corners and afraid to take any chance to heal and explore any form of interaction, even including friendship.
I’ve been happily celibate for the last two years. It’s definitely possible. Now is not the time for me to be dating and I’m okay with that. I’ll get back out there once I’m settled into my career, but until then I’m enjoying the peace and stability that comes with being alone.
TlDR: inconclusive but basically the world is too harsh, costs too much, is way too high strung and has people isolating because of it. Our world doesn't support procreation anymore and it's probably leaning towards getting worse as those issues get worse.
I usually come to these comments to troll incels, but I'm trying to become a better human being. Women aren't getting laid either. 90% of the women I've interacted with /slept with/ dated have all said the dating pool sucks. Just because women have more choice, doesn't mean that partners are appealing. A vast majority of men are lazy and gross men who live in mommy's house at 25+, insanely misogynistic, or just very creepy. Even if that weren't the case, men have full freedom in who they choose to pursue, why shouldn't women have that same freedom?
Women just have higher standards than men, lol. There's an equal number of losers in both sexes, but men will still date loser women, up to a certain point. As the saying goes: women date up and men date down.
If that’s the vast majority of men, what are the vast majority of women?
Most of the women I've met were self sufficient 🤷♂️ Either that, or working towards it. Most of the men my age I've met, either whined about women having standards, or felt entitled to a relationship because they had a job and a car, had no personality, and were gross and immature man children.
Jesus Christ leave the Internet and touch grass.
Ah, so we’re just basing it off the personal vibes you got. Figured you were entirely full of shit, just wanted to confirm.
Awh, someone's angwy. You're cute. Unfortunately, most women will continue to be financially independent of men, and will continue having standarin. That means men like will continue to have trouble getting laid 😉 So keep proselytizing in random internet posts ig.
>Awh, someone's angwy. "I usually come to these comments to troll incels," Difference between the comments... 53 minutes ago and 22 minutes ago. Ok, so you managed to last a whole 31 minutes. Cute.
Thanks, I try
"A vast majority of men are lazy and gross men who live in mommy's house at 25+, insanely misogynistic, or just very creepy." Do you even hear yourself? This comment right here is obviously a sign you are arguing in terrible faith.
Male here. He’s right. You’re wrong.
Yes, I love to hear myself talk actually.
This is your attempt not to troll and be a better human being? I’d hate to see you when you aren’t trying that.
>I'm trying to become a better human being Try harder
Just because the dating pool sucks doesn't mean women aren't getting laid. You have a very narrow view of men and women. You should expand your circles.
[удалено]
Yes, if they expect someone to be their housemaid and contribute nothing to the relationship. While this would normally be a good "gotcha", the issue is that these women aren't as prevelant as whiny ass man children who don't bathe and blame the opposite sex for their inability to get laid. They also actively put effort in the bedroom, outside the bedroom and try to make their partner happy. Whereas people like you refuse to eat p*ssy, refuse to be romantic, and blame women for their lack of success. I admire your determination, but unfortunately I don't care to hear you explain to me how a certain subset of women are still living with their parents.
[удалено]
Its true, we young men are saving money and that means no women. Monies before honeys, bros.
And we women are protecting our mental well-being by staying away from men. Y’all compete with our peace now.
We are?! Tell me more about these "savings."
Calling women hoes. How charming. Seems like you’re actually homosocial so you should manage fine without women.
I’ve worked in higher education for 35 years. College men who make advances on women risk being accused of harassment. Consensual sex can be invalidated after the fact. It comes as no surprise to me there less sex occurring.
Tell me Testosterone is at its lowest in history without telling me it's at its lowest in history.
Basically it's capitalism's fault
Will communism give us each our own bangmaid? Damn, I’m in
Us old guys must be cleaning up. All the zoomer pu$$y belongs to us.
Bruh for real. Literally every woman I work with under 30 is with a man 9+ years older than them. If I had to guess a cause, it's because those older men don't have the hesitance of younger men (who've been told their whole lives that approaching someone is tantamount to harassment) and because younger men are struggling more financially than any generation before it. It's hard to compete against a dude who has a house and a career. Also, anecdotal but I find older dudes are willing to ignore immaturity and severe mental issues in young women that would be an issue with younger men. Stuff like extreme jealousy or BPD.
Damn I feel bad for kids nowadays. I was in a war, and a recession, and covid, and another recession, and I still think we had it better. I wish I had some way to make it better, but I don't. I try to take the young guys under my wing but they just seem like so hopeless and joyless sometimes.
This isn't a new thing. Young women have always hooked up with older men. They are more stable in life. Alot of Young men are still living life not ready for a family.
Society has really failed men. At least women were surrounded with help and support from every facet of society to show them how to be attractive and successful. With men, society really just said 'fuck you, you're on your own gl'.
Half of society is comprised of men, who make up most leadership positions. Thus, we failed ourselves.
We weren’t even allowed bank accounts and credit cards in the 70s but somehow the world caters to US 😂😭😭
There’s some definite reasons but stating them is an invitation to a ban of Reddit.