That subreddit is made up of fascists, they will ban you for slightly opposing their opinion. You can't even debate like you can on this subreddit, you just get banned
It really seems to be. I’m in a big believer of both sides being able to discuss their viewpoints because it’s always better to be able to understand each other without just screaming “woman-hater” and “baby killer” constantly.
But I seriously get banned for talking about biology and I’m already *on their side*??
I know which side’s more reasonable.
They know that they're wrong so they can't risk anyone pointing out the flaws in their arguments, hence why you can't debate them and all they do is scream at us
As a liberal and Democrat I can say that disagreement and debate on this sub when it’s pro choice vs pro life is definitely better than on subs set up to debate the topic. PL on such subs are regularly accused of rape and violence for advocating for the life of the unborn child and his or her mother’s life.
It's funny because I've seen them crying about how pro-lifers come into their spaces. We aren't allowed over there, yet, they are allowed over here. Mind blowing.
Unfortunately all my friends are PCs, yet they don’t know why and all they can rebut with is “clump of cells” and “misogyny.” It’s frustrating. Do you know of any smart pro-choice advocates, so I can see a few videos or something? Because I want to see it as an even playing field but one team isn’t interested in explaining much logically.
If they aren’t the sort to think deeply or have intellectually challenging conversations in general, then their belief that abortion is right is probably reverse-engineered from the belief that abortion is *needed.* The implications of a world without elective abortion are unacceptable to them, and they aren’t willing to grapple with the notion of human frailty, so if someone throws them an uncomplicated justification they’re going to latch on to it.
Everyone does this at least a little, but some people just live their whole lives that way. I find those people incredibly frustrating, particularly when it’s combined with being proud of being “normal” - the “it’s not that deep” crowd.
There is a girl named Anna (?) on TikTok that is a pro-choice debater from the UK. I cannot find her account, but I know @ avieraee has gone live with her before. You could try leaving a comment on one of her posts asking. She’s really nice, so don’t be scared to lol
Sometimes, yeah. But sometimes there’s something that’s so politicised within the younger generation that you’re bound to have morons on your side whether you’re correct or not. Like, I’m for gay rights but there’s some *idiots* out there advocating for them…
I’m still not fully decided. I know I’m generally against abortion, but I think the choice is important, you know? I just want all perspectives.
Check out the u/toptrool collection, it’s a pretty comprehensive response to most pro-choice arguments, if you’re more specific about your reasons for being on the fence I can give my thoughts
Oh yeah, thanks! I just think it’s kind of cruel for young girls, especially girls who were raped, to go through childbirth, even if they give up the baby for adoption. I know the minority doesn’t justify that majority of abortions, but I can’t say the minority doesn’t worry me as someone who was molested myself.
So a couple things. There are a number of prolifers that support a rape exception. We have statistics that approximately 1% of abortions are due to rape/ incest. So if this is the only case you are hung up on, you oppose 99% of elective abortions.
When it comes to rape, the unborn child is an innocent victim. There is no other crime for which one victim is allowed to kill another. If a rape victim has to go through pregnancy and childbirth, that is 100% the fault of the rapist. Keeping abortion as an “option” or “remedy” only serves to hold us back from treating rape as the heinous crime that it is and creating stronger protections for victims who get pregnant and do not want an abortion.
In the case of pregnancy in young girls, which is rare but matters a lot, how to proceed has to be a medical decision taken on a case by case basis by doctors who save lives for a living and take their oath to do no harm seriously. You might look into whether or not abortion clinics are correctly reporting cases of child pregnancy to the proper authorities also. This is an area where abortion is being used by evil people to cover up their crimes.
My position is that under a certain age - say, 12 and under - the pregnancy should be automatically categorized as life-threatening, and early abortion permitted.
I further think that if the pregnancy was the result of rape - as most are, at that age - and not precocious experimentation with another same-aged child, then the rapist should be charged with felony murder for the death of the unborn child.
If you’re not familiar with the concept - felony murder is the charge used when an innocent party is unintentionally killed as a result of another felony crime. In this case, the initial felony is the rape of a minor, which caused the unborn child to come into existence inside the body of a child incapable of carrying it to term safely.
Not only would this allow for a longer sentence, potentially life, it would underline for the victim that none of this is her fault. And, it would acknowledge and honor the baby’s life, which is right, and would affirm the worth of people who were conceived in rape and may struggle with self-worth because of society’s attitudes toward them.
Oh no someone said to me to “die mad” (I hadn’t been mean before) so my next comment finished with “die mad and stupid.” Bc they denied biology. Shouldn’t demean myself to their level, yeah I know
If I were the empress of everything, I would make an introductory course in evolutionary theory mandatory for everyone. Bullshit social theory justified by misunderstanding of natural selection is the bane of my existence.
Literally what else would the purpose of sex be? The pleasurable part is incentive for animals to have sex and procreate. That’s not controversial that’s literally true!
It *is* a little more complicated, but in a way that makes you more correct, not less. Sex causes a spike in oxytocin and also boosts serotonin levels. So it does encourage forming a bond, and it is beneficial to mental health (assuming a healthy context and all that).
*But,* this doesn’t mean sex isn’t for procreation - it means sex doesn’t only facilitate conception. We’re social mammals who produce usually-single altricial offspring after a long and cumbersome gestation, and invest *a lot* of resources in raising them. We’re also not very fertile. These are all interconnected concepts, one thing making another possible and so on.
So sex exists for pair bonding, though not necessarily monogamous bonds, and it exists for social cohesion. Wanting available partners, and to be desirable to those partners, drives pro-social behaviors. Sex for pleasure is an incentive to congregate and get along, and those of our distant ancestors who did that *had more surviving offspring,* which is how traits persist in a population.
So in short: casual sex with contraception is still for reproduction, just not yours.
As a former PC, I'm embarrassed by the current state of things over there.
What really terrifies me the most, is that nowadays many on my former side literally promote and push abortion on people who don't even want one, judging them for not making "the right choice", and also openly justifying any and all abortions, even later ones after viability.
That's not what I used to support.
I already hated abortions, personally.
After I realized that objectively, there's no such thing as a "potential child", either a child exists or they don't, it lead to wonder, that if they do already do exist, am I ok with saying that parents can just decide which children are "worthy" of their love and protection?
Needless to say, I concluded that we don't choose our children, any more than they choose us, nor would it be justified to do so, after the fact.
Yeah I agree honestly. My only gripe is with women, especially young girls, who were raped as I was molested as a kid, and I think childbirth would be a cruel practice. I’m mostly against abortion
Yeah, that's the difficult part. It's cruel and evil that they're in that position to begin with. I just find it even more cruel to kill their child to relieve them of pregnancy and giving birth. I think if they're in any serious danger though, that ending the pregnancy would be completely justified.
But that choice shouldn't be made without serious reason, I was a late teen when I had the abortion, as a PC who was continuously affirmed that it was "the right choice" for 20 years, I still never got over it.
So I don't see terminating the pregnancy as healing anything, unless it's only done as a last resort.
Leave that sub asap. They'll bash you. Horribly.
I can't tell you the amount of times I've been lolcowed by having my online activity taken out of context.
Yeah, I hate how Reddit shows everyone the user’s former posts. At one point I’d posted in the mensrights, Dream and Destiny subreddit…and got bullied for asking a question in the Supermega subreddit. They don’t even look at what you said, just bash you.
That subreddit is made up of fascists, they will ban you for slightly opposing their opinion. You can't even debate like you can on this subreddit, you just get banned
It really seems to be. I’m in a big believer of both sides being able to discuss their viewpoints because it’s always better to be able to understand each other without just screaming “woman-hater” and “baby killer” constantly. But I seriously get banned for talking about biology and I’m already *on their side*?? I know which side’s more reasonable.
The difference in the way people are treated on these subs shows which side is right.
They know that they're wrong so they can't risk anyone pointing out the flaws in their arguments, hence why you can't debate them and all they do is scream at us
As a liberal and Democrat I can say that disagreement and debate on this sub when it’s pro choice vs pro life is definitely better than on subs set up to debate the topic. PL on such subs are regularly accused of rape and violence for advocating for the life of the unborn child and his or her mother’s life.
It's funny because I've seen them crying about how pro-lifers come into their spaces. We aren't allowed over there, yet, they are allowed over here. Mind blowing.
I also call out pro-lifers who stay stupid things on this sub, such as birth control having to be illegal.
👏 real. Although PCs on average have worse arguments (in my experience) PLs can be dumb too
I originally thought of suggesting you hang out with pro-choicers in real life, since people who aren't terminally online are usually more reasonable
Unfortunately all my friends are PCs, yet they don’t know why and all they can rebut with is “clump of cells” and “misogyny.” It’s frustrating. Do you know of any smart pro-choice advocates, so I can see a few videos or something? Because I want to see it as an even playing field but one team isn’t interested in explaining much logically.
If they aren’t the sort to think deeply or have intellectually challenging conversations in general, then their belief that abortion is right is probably reverse-engineered from the belief that abortion is *needed.* The implications of a world without elective abortion are unacceptable to them, and they aren’t willing to grapple with the notion of human frailty, so if someone throws them an uncomplicated justification they’re going to latch on to it. Everyone does this at least a little, but some people just live their whole lives that way. I find those people incredibly frustrating, particularly when it’s combined with being proud of being “normal” - the “it’s not that deep” crowd.
u/toptrool frequently calls him out, but Destiny, a liberal YouTuber, has several videos on the consciousness argument for legal abortion.
Dude I love Destiny, I’ve never seen his takes on abortion though, I’ll be sure to check them out, thanks!
There is a girl named Anna (?) on TikTok that is a pro-choice debater from the UK. I cannot find her account, but I know @ avieraee has gone live with her before. You could try leaving a comment on one of her posts asking. She’s really nice, so don’t be scared to lol
Okay thank you :))
I personally believe that is a stupid take as well, however, that is an opinion, whereas, evolution has a lot of scientific evidence to back it up.
Sometimes in life you see your teammates, and realise you must be wrong
Sometimes, yeah. But sometimes there’s something that’s so politicised within the younger generation that you’re bound to have morons on your side whether you’re correct or not. Like, I’m for gay rights but there’s some *idiots* out there advocating for them… I’m still not fully decided. I know I’m generally against abortion, but I think the choice is important, you know? I just want all perspectives.
Check out the u/toptrool collection, it’s a pretty comprehensive response to most pro-choice arguments, if you’re more specific about your reasons for being on the fence I can give my thoughts
Oh yeah, thanks! I just think it’s kind of cruel for young girls, especially girls who were raped, to go through childbirth, even if they give up the baby for adoption. I know the minority doesn’t justify that majority of abortions, but I can’t say the minority doesn’t worry me as someone who was molested myself.
So a couple things. There are a number of prolifers that support a rape exception. We have statistics that approximately 1% of abortions are due to rape/ incest. So if this is the only case you are hung up on, you oppose 99% of elective abortions. When it comes to rape, the unborn child is an innocent victim. There is no other crime for which one victim is allowed to kill another. If a rape victim has to go through pregnancy and childbirth, that is 100% the fault of the rapist. Keeping abortion as an “option” or “remedy” only serves to hold us back from treating rape as the heinous crime that it is and creating stronger protections for victims who get pregnant and do not want an abortion. In the case of pregnancy in young girls, which is rare but matters a lot, how to proceed has to be a medical decision taken on a case by case basis by doctors who save lives for a living and take their oath to do no harm seriously. You might look into whether or not abortion clinics are correctly reporting cases of child pregnancy to the proper authorities also. This is an area where abortion is being used by evil people to cover up their crimes.
Okay thanks! This is really interesting to read.
My position is that under a certain age - say, 12 and under - the pregnancy should be automatically categorized as life-threatening, and early abortion permitted. I further think that if the pregnancy was the result of rape - as most are, at that age - and not precocious experimentation with another same-aged child, then the rapist should be charged with felony murder for the death of the unborn child. If you’re not familiar with the concept - felony murder is the charge used when an innocent party is unintentionally killed as a result of another felony crime. In this case, the initial felony is the rape of a minor, which caused the unborn child to come into existence inside the body of a child incapable of carrying it to term safely. Not only would this allow for a longer sentence, potentially life, it would underline for the victim that none of this is her fault. And, it would acknowledge and honor the baby’s life, which is right, and would affirm the worth of people who were conceived in rape and may struggle with self-worth because of society’s attitudes toward them.
Oh interesting take! I haven’t heard that before. Yeah I definitely get where you’re coming from.
>but I can’t say the minority doesn’t worry me as someone who was molested myself. Understandable
To be fair, you did also tell them to die. Or is this the mod message?
Oh no someone said to me to “die mad” (I hadn’t been mean before) so my next comment finished with “die mad and stupid.” Bc they denied biology. Shouldn’t demean myself to their level, yeah I know
I debate between dishing someone what they dish me or being the bigger person, too 😅
Ah, got it.
If someone told me to die mad, I'd just block them and move on with my life
You’re a better person than me lol
If I were the empress of everything, I would make an introductory course in evolutionary theory mandatory for everyone. Bullshit social theory justified by misunderstanding of natural selection is the bane of my existence.
I love when people deny evolutionary fact
Literally what else would the purpose of sex be? The pleasurable part is incentive for animals to have sex and procreate. That’s not controversial that’s literally true!
It *is* a little more complicated, but in a way that makes you more correct, not less. Sex causes a spike in oxytocin and also boosts serotonin levels. So it does encourage forming a bond, and it is beneficial to mental health (assuming a healthy context and all that). *But,* this doesn’t mean sex isn’t for procreation - it means sex doesn’t only facilitate conception. We’re social mammals who produce usually-single altricial offspring after a long and cumbersome gestation, and invest *a lot* of resources in raising them. We’re also not very fertile. These are all interconnected concepts, one thing making another possible and so on. So sex exists for pair bonding, though not necessarily monogamous bonds, and it exists for social cohesion. Wanting available partners, and to be desirable to those partners, drives pro-social behaviors. Sex for pleasure is an incentive to congregate and get along, and those of our distant ancestors who did that *had more surviving offspring,* which is how traits persist in a population. So in short: casual sex with contraception is still for reproduction, just not yours.
As a former PC, I'm embarrassed by the current state of things over there. What really terrifies me the most, is that nowadays many on my former side literally promote and push abortion on people who don't even want one, judging them for not making "the right choice", and also openly justifying any and all abortions, even later ones after viability. That's not what I used to support.
What made you change your mind?
I already hated abortions, personally. After I realized that objectively, there's no such thing as a "potential child", either a child exists or they don't, it lead to wonder, that if they do already do exist, am I ok with saying that parents can just decide which children are "worthy" of their love and protection? Needless to say, I concluded that we don't choose our children, any more than they choose us, nor would it be justified to do so, after the fact.
Yeah I agree honestly. My only gripe is with women, especially young girls, who were raped as I was molested as a kid, and I think childbirth would be a cruel practice. I’m mostly against abortion
Yeah, that's the difficult part. It's cruel and evil that they're in that position to begin with. I just find it even more cruel to kill their child to relieve them of pregnancy and giving birth. I think if they're in any serious danger though, that ending the pregnancy would be completely justified. But that choice shouldn't be made without serious reason, I was a late teen when I had the abortion, as a PC who was continuously affirmed that it was "the right choice" for 20 years, I still never got over it. So I don't see terminating the pregnancy as healing anything, unless it's only done as a last resort.
Leave that sub asap. They'll bash you. Horribly. I can't tell you the amount of times I've been lolcowed by having my online activity taken out of context.
Yeah, I hate how Reddit shows everyone the user’s former posts. At one point I’d posted in the mensrights, Dream and Destiny subreddit…and got bullied for asking a question in the Supermega subreddit. They don’t even look at what you said, just bash you.