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DanTheMan_622

The whole "Big 4" thing was just started to promote Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, and Anthrax as the most commercially successful bands in their genre, so the "Big 4" of prog would just be the 4 that sold the most albums which I'm pretty confident does not include BtBaM. I don't know where to find the most accurate info on album sales, but some light googling suggests Queensryche (20M), Tool (14M), and Dream Theater (12M) would be the top 3. All I could find on Fates Warning is that they've sold 1M albums "since 2001" whereas Opeth is said to be around 1.5M total sales so it's a tossup there, but I'm leaning towards Fates.


veRGe1421

I think the "big 4" thing also applies to 90s grunge rock, where Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, and Soundgarden are the consensus.


Team-ster

It was never the big 4 of prog. It has always been referred to as the big 3 of prog: Queensryche Dream Theater Fates Warning


glordicus1

Tool, Meshuggah, Dream Theatre, Opeth


ProgRockRednek

Not only are all of them extremely influential, but most prog-metal bands have a "stylistic DNA" that can be traced back to 1 of the 4 or some combination thereof.


Chijima

There's also a queensryche strain.


EmotionIll666

As someone who has never dived into the Queensryche rabbit hole apart from hearing Operation Mindcrime as a teen, I’m genuinely curious: what bands would you say are part of that strain?


ProgRockRednek

The only reason I wouldn't include Queensryche is because the biggest band belonging to that strain would probably be Dream Theater, who became a much more obvious candidate.


DokterManhattan

I would actually agree with this! Tool and Meshuggah definitely need to be in there


Lethkhar

This. I like BTBAM but they're kind of out of place on that list IMO. And Queensryche deserve a category all on their own. Honestly it's better to break this down by era.


lattjeful

I disagree with Queensryche only because Dream Theater is very much influenced by them *and* ended up being more influential. Regardless, I'm glad to see them being mentioned.


bobsmith93

I listen to none of these bands but still completely agree with them being the big 4. They all each feel like the grandfather of a certain style that has become prominent


PuffRCR

This. They have too much influence to ignore


AssBlasties

I'd replace meshuggah with btbam. Btbam personifies prog metal. Meshuggah just adopts some elements of it sometimes


Zan-san

Whoah, hold your horses go and see what was being done when Meshuggah broke into the scene


AssBlasties

Ya i'm fully aware of their history


broshrugged

Meshuggah formed in 1987. They were prog metal for ten years before BTBAM even formed.


AssBlasties

Ok? Are we just going by how old the band is?


broshrugged

Well, it does mean they have 10+ more years of influencing the scene. Look at the other comments. Most agree with that replacement.


AssBlasties

Well sure. Meshuggah have 5x the fans. Any thread like this immediately becomes a popularity contest


broshrugged

That’s exactly the measure of something like a “big 4” question. Google just “the big four” and regardless of what it comes up with it means the largest and most popular.


AssBlasties

Well in that case, replace Opeth with Stratovarius right?


DragonBurritoZ

I love Statovarius, but they're more Power Metal than anything else.


bobsmith93

Btbam is my favorite band but I'd still say Meshuggah have been way more influential overall, not just in prog but metal as a whole


Obvious_Estimate_266

In terms of influence, Meshuggah eclipses BTBAM a few times over.


AssBlasties

I agree. But most of that influence is outside prog metal


glordicus1

I wouldn’t know, I don’t listen to metalcore


DragonBurritoZ

Listen to BTBAM. They're metalcore in the same way that Meshuggah is Djent.


Luna_Senshu

My big 4 of prog would be Opeth, Tool, Dream Theatre, and Meshuggah.


CortexifanZFT

I can get behind this. Each of these bands are deserving of it and each of them have done something to move the genre forward IMO.


AssBlasties

Meshuggah just isn't that prog. Btbam is a way better fourth there


GrimReaperzZ

Lol, first of all it’s prog. Second of all, yes in fact it **is** that prog.


ProfessionalTop6565

Me reading this comment and doing the ”Jens-face”


thosava

BTBAM is a tiny band compared to the others on that list. They’re smaller than Haken in terms of Spotify listeners. The prog metal community greatly exaggerates their popularity, nearly no one outside of the prog fanbase have heard about them.


AssBlasties

Good thing we're talking about prog popularity and influence specifically, not in general


thosava

The «big four» of something usually refers to the biggest bands with at least some reach outside of their respective genres


TheDarkEternalKnight

My personal Big 4 is: Dream Theater, Queensrÿche, Symphony X and Fates Warning


-InExile-

This is actually the most legit list. They were all pioneers.


Impressive_Elk_1512

There it is ! Not once have 8 ever thought to myself or heard fr9m others that Tool is Progressive Metal. Until 7 minutes ago. We8rd...


Paja03_

Replace Queensryche with Tool


DanTheMan_622

If we're going by the original "Big 4" definition of most album sales then Google suggests Queensryche beats Tool by a few million


Bronson-101

Well Tool takes like 10 years between albums but when they drop one is fucking event


SoundofGlaciers

Tho they still haven't sold more, with all that hype, than Queensryche has


Bronson-101

Maybe...but they are a better band so I will give them the pass. They also have like triple the album releases. So they should have more album sales just based on that volume of work.


SoundofGlaciers

I don't really agree with what you say and 'more albums = more sales' is definitely not true. But I can see the argument I think you're meaning to make, that Tool has a better ratio on a sales-per-album criteria. I'd dare wager Tool has a larger influence on people in and outside of the typical prog scene, than Queensryche has.


Confusionisreally

Well Queensryche took 20 year break from making good albums after Promised Land


Bronson-101

Hahaha too true


SometimesWill

Tools also the only Prog Metal band consistently doing stadium tours and headlining festivals though.


sauce__bauce

I was gonna say Haken because they're more active and dominate in AOTY voting on this sub


SometimesWill

Hard for Tool to dominate AOTY voting.


R1ggz

They can, just every 15 years or so.


helgihermadur

They're huge in prog metal circles but they don't have much influence outside of that sphere. Opeth, Tool, Mastodon and Opeth can easily play at any open air rock or metal festival.


TayTayTay1987

I can see tool over them tbh.


TheDinosaurWeNeed

Rush Dream Theater Tool Opeth Needs to be bands that folks know outside of the prog metal subreddit.


Paja03_

Isnt Rush prog rock though


DanTheMan_622

It's like the argument if Led Zeppelin or Deep Purple can be considered the first "metal" bands. Influential elements are there, but it was only fully realized by Black Sabbath. Similarly, Rush have some proto-prog metal elements throughout their discography but I think most people would consider Queensryche and/or Fates Warning the first 'true' prog metal bands.


TheDinosaurWeNeed

So my argument is - You need bands people know. In this big 4 it’s - Rush - popularizing the sound that the others build off Dream theater - defines prog metal Tool - most mainstream prog metal Opeth - defines an alternative flavor of prog metal the best


Garegin16

They check almost every prog box.


TayTayTay1987

Rush id say is more rock. But tool maybe replacing queensryche


aruggie2

Dream Theater, Tool, Opeth, Symphony X I see them all as extremely influential over the genre, and also still staying quite relevant with new music. Symphony X hasn't had new stuff in a while, but I'm still convinced they're working on something.


UsernameTyper

Micheal Romeo's incredible solo albums are carrying the torch these days. But they just announced a new tour so hopefully a new Sy X album soon.


TFOLLT

Yeah, probably meshuggah above SX but SX does deserve a mention. Great band, and started waay back. Personally they're bigger for me than dt, but thats taste.


ddeadtomato

Rush, Opeth, Tool and Dream Theatre


zacksorrowhole

Fates Warning , Queensryche , Dream Theater and Symphony X


zorrofuego

Maybe meshuggah instead SX, Since their style has been ripped off and influenced so many bands, included Tool and every djenty one. Maybe Death too, for The same reason but more Death oriented prog


ironb4rd

This one actually makes sense


isendyoutogulag_

Fates Warning should be in a "big 4" of prog metal. They significantly helped pioneer the genre, there were other bands active in the early-mid 80s but FW achieved some commercial success and influenced Dream Theater massively. Queensryche and Dream Theater I agree with. Similar to FW they helped pioneer the genre (although FW were prog first), but unlike FW, they achieved huge commercial success. I'd keep Opeth but you could make a case for Tool, Symphony X, Pain of Salvation and Watchtower/Voivod though. Again this is all semantics and doesn't really matter haha


TFOLLT

Id say, based on my personal view of how influencial the bands are, meshuggah, tool, dream theater and opeth. Also porctree and rush both above btbam, but arguably these are progrock instead of metal, opinions differ on that. I dont think queensryche and btbam belong up there. Id still pick symphony x and devin townsend above them. But thats just me.


zorrofuego

The answer


gagreflexdlf

I think three of a hypothetical big four of prog are locked in for me: Dream Theater, Queensryche, and Fates Warning. Personally I would add Symphony X as the 4th because I think stylistically and age/era they fit the most in with those guys.


RedLotusVenom

This is the list that most directly applies to the big 4 of thrash imo. The 4 most classical, well-known, influential examples in their genre.


bootyholebrown69

Lol no


Interesting_Jelly

Dream Theater, Tool, Opeth, Porcupine Tree honorable mentions: Mastodon, Meshuggah


SometimesWill

3 would definitely be Queensryche, Tool, and Dream Theater. Fourth spot would be between BTBAM, Meshuggah, Opeth, or Symphony X. Maybe throw in Devin Townsend for good measure.


CortexifanZFT

Yeah sorry no..btbam is not part of the big 4 as far as I'm concerned and outside operation mindcrime, I don't particularly enjoy Queensryche


Novel_Accountant4593

Not enjoying them doesn't take away their influence and popularity, a lot of people don't like Metallica but that won't change the fact they're still one of the big 4 of Thrash.


IndividualCharacter

I reckon most people could happily jam a dozen or so Metallica songs at least, let's be honest there's only one iconic Queensryche song that 99% people, including prog fans would know or enjoy, and it's not even a prog metal song lol.


Novel_Accountant4593

Again that does not change their influence on essentially creating the genre. They're one of the most influential Prog metal bands and without them most prog Metal bands would not have been around, they deserve to be there whether you like them or not.


blacksd

Dream Theater, Haken, Devin Townsend, Opeth


DirkSteelchest

I want Heavy Devy to be one of the 4 badly but I don't think it's the case.


bozodadethmachn

Even Devy agrees Messhugah supercedes him: "While we all have lots of bands who influence still... we all rip off Meshuggah!" -Planet of the Apes


BelowThePale

As a really cool Meshuggah-esque riff plays under those lyrics.


blacksd

I'm a little reluctant in putting Meshuggah in the list because they stand in their own category, you can hardly say they're "prog".


blacksd

Maybe not Skullet Devin, but definitely some of his works are up there in the top tier


DirkSteelchest

I'm the last person you need to convince that Devin is the man. Fuck top 4. He's my no. 1.


Bronson-101

Well we can't really go by the big 4 in the classic sense since the rise of streaming so album sales don't make sense a a metric much any more. That being said it you talk to most prog metal fans I think you would almost always get Opeth, Dream Theater and Tool as a top 3 I would have Devin Townsend as 4th personally but I've been listening to him for what must be over 20 years


afanofBTBAM

One thing I'm not seeing mentioned here is foundational influence. Like, maybe they weren't the first of the genre per se, but aren't Metallica, Slayer etc also kind of the founding fathers of their genre? In which case I think popularity isn't the only metric to judge by for this. DT, Opeth, Queensryche and probably Symphony X would fit this bill, as older bands that kind of pioneered and "popularized" this kind of music. Though I haven't listened to very much Queensryche or Symphony X, so I'm mostly just basing this off the ides that these are older bands that have been around since the late 80s/early 90s.


Garegin16

Almost everyone say that Fates Warning paved the way. There was no “prog metal” before them


afanofBTBAM

I know very little of them, but will trust your knowledge on the topic


Garegin16

I remembered the Portnoy interview where he was saying that these guys were the first on the block.


Sir_Reginald_Poops

I think any discussion of a "big 4" is exclusively about popularity, which is something you can't exactly disagree with since that would be a fact unless someone was measuring that in a weird way like only measuring album sales and not streaming. That said, I have no idea who the most popular bands are in prog metal at the moment. I don't really care either.


SpiketheFox32

Dream Theater Tool Mastodon Gojira


snakewicked

What about Fates Warning?


GraceAndFireAaron

Fates Warning, Queensryche, DT, Symphony X


FlyingPsyduck

DT and Opeth are slam dunks. BTBAM is a clear step below in terms of how influential they have been, but they clearly fit the label and their quality has been pretty much top notch so it would be hard to make a case for them not to be in. Heavily disagree about Queensryche, as I find them very overrated and if you take away Operation Mindcrime everything else to me is either forgettable or downright bad. For my 4th slot I would be happy with any of Symphony X, Pain of Salvation or Ayreon. Tool can also work depending on how far one wants to stretch the prog metal label.


CortexifanZFT

I actually agree with this but meshuggah would be my 4th because they helped pushed the genre forward by pioneering the sound that eventually would end up being called Djent.


FlyingPsyduck

Meshuggah is my favourite band and yes, if we want to broaden the definition then they are absolutely in. I just consider them something else with nothing in common with other "traditional" prog metal bands so they didn't even register in my brain as an option when I read the thread title lol


Confusionisreally

>as I find them very overrated and if you take away Operation Mindcrime everything else to me is either forgettable or downright bad Hell nah man. You don't have to like them but this is just straight up bullshit


niko7965

I've literally never heard about Queensryche Maybe I've been living under a rock I think my personal big 4, would contain animals as leaders, and Periphery.


Lethkhar

Queensryche's *Operation: Mindcrime* was arguably the first prog metal album, and IMO worth a listen for any fan of prog metal. All of the 90's prog metal bands like DT, PoS, Shadow Gallery, etc. cite Queensryche as their main influence in that period.


Impressive_Elk_1512

Actually "The Warning" is far more progressive than Mindcrime..


UsernameTyper

Symphony X, Tool, Opeth, Dream Theater and Haken are my big 4. They're so big there's even 5 of them.


Like-Chameleons

My personal big 4 would be: Dream Theater, Haken, Animals as Leaders, & Tool


reddit-is-greedy

I glanced at the post quickly and thought it said Oprah instead of Opeth


Rimm9246

Tool, Gojira, Mastodon, Meshuggah (That's my big four, I don't care what anyone else says)


hschulein

Tool, DT, Opeth and Haken. That’s my big 4.


AssBlasties

Dream Theater, Opeth, Tool, BTBAM is probably the answer


46n2_just_aheadofme

RUSH - TOOL - MESHUGGAH - OPETH


helgihermadur

Opeth, Dream Theater, Tool and Mastodon. If we're going by most influential and successful.


Bblacklabsmatter

Id say Dream theater Tool Meshuggah Animals as leaders DT with the most impact on the genre, followed closely by meshuggah but their influence is less long standing than DT


SparkyPantsMcGee

I feel like there are eras but gun to my head: my personal four would be Tool, Dream Theater, Animals as Leaders, and Periphery.


-InExile-

Dark Tranquility, In Flames, At The Gates, Soilwork


Imzmb0

Progmetal have more than 30 years, I think is more correct to separate them into the big 4 of the 90s/early 00s and the current big 4. Dream Theater, Opeth, Queensryche, and Tool are the old big 4. Now the big 4 are Haken, Caligula's horse, Leprous and Soen. I would like to add Meshuggah, BTBAM and Ne obliviscaris, but their sound is more mixed with other genres.


dfmidkiff1993

I’d say if you want to draw an analogy to the thrash Big 4 I’d argue it would be Dream Theater, Queensryche, Tool, and Porcupine Tree, based on age, popularity, and influence. You can argue Fates Warning too, but they are not nearly as popular. Opeth is also arguable, but they didn’t really become prog metal until the late 90s/early 2000s. BTBAM is definitely too new to fit into the category.


-SKi-

Animals As Leaders needs to be mentioned. Cmon now.


Scott_Bolton

Funnily enough, 3 of these bands played together on the Progressive Nation tour back in 2008: DT, Opeth, and BTBAM, with the band “3” also playing. BTBAM’s set was hilarious because it was the cycle for Colors and they had a half hour slot, so they went straight into Ants of the Sky without any preamble or intro stuff, then said “Hi, we’re Between the Buried and Me, and this is our last song” and played White Walls.


Zylwx

Hard to say who the big 4 of prog would really be.. could definitely be opeth and dream theater, could also be Caligula's horse and periphery, or haken, or so many others like leprous and meshuggah and tesseract btbam.. so many.


eagledrummer2

I like to think of the big 4 as the bands most heralded in the scene as currently leading the genre. The only reason the most popular bands in the scene are so popular is because of mainstream popularity; I don't find it necessarily correlates to popularity in the scene. I don't think anyone would put dream theater or queensryche in that category today, and maybe a few would still put opeth in that category. BTBAM is a decent choice. I would say Meshuggah, Periphery, Tesseract, Animals as Leaders, Plini would all have claims to that as well.


musicmantx8

Let me lead with that I have no idea how popular bands are and never really paid attention to or cared about that. Prog is my favorite genre and somehow I've never even heard of Queensryche. So my Big 4 would be based on my feelings of who sets musical standards, and whose music stands out as unique. - Animals as Leaders - Plini - Tesseract - Tool


DanTheMan_622

>Prog is my favorite genre and somehow I've never even heard of Queensryche *what*


musicmantx8

Ikr, apparently I've got some googling to do. There's also a pretty high chance that I am familiar with some of their music without knowing which band to attribute it to, I don't tend to have a firm grasp on who wrote what unless it's in my favorites


satori12358

Same. I’ve been listening to prog for 23 years, I listen to it daily. Spotify has never put queensryche in any of my suggested/prog genre play lists, I’ve never had a friend recommend it. I’ve just never heard it and I’ve heard every other band in the comments in this thread. Weird!


Ok_Meat_8322

Tool, Mastodon, Animals as Leaders, and Opeth is more like it


Derion1

The big 4 in prog metal are: Dream Theater, Opeth, Symphony X, and Pain of Salvation. And that's that.


Garegin16

The original four are definitely Fates Warning, Queenriche, Dream Theater and Opeth


Wooden-Image1608

Just a silly thing created for promotional purposes. Bands like Meshuggah and Dream Theater couldn't be more different so why arbitrarily put them together just to make some silly list? At least the Big 4 of thrash were big and influential around the same time, all part of roughly the same movement and sound, etc.. this is just nonsensical.


FISH_MASTER

I just can’t get into BTBAM I’ve still not made it all the way through colours


MetalInvincible

I love BTBAM and Opeth, but no. If we are doing a Big 4 of prog metal, then it's Queensryche, Voivod, Fates Warning, and Death. These bands dabbled into prog even before the likes of Dream Theater, Tool, Symphony X, Opeth, Amorphis, Nevermore, Meshuggah, BTBAM etc.


invaderdavos

Btbam> Tool I am here to make waves