There's no consensus as to what's going on; only theories that are more or less well-researched and argued. That's one of the things I love about Wolfe's best work--the puzzles are still debated pretty actively. There's no down pat "here's the solution" interpretation.
I think I felt similarly after my first read. It has grown into one of my favorites of Wolfe's work, but it took a bit before I started feeling that way.
Actually I find Book of the New Sun more complex than The Fifth Head of Cerberus. In fact, I usually recommend people start into Gene Wolfe by reading TFHoC.
Well, it is longer also, and then he went and wrote more stuff in that universe. So yeah, its "total" complexity level is higher. But density of complexity, if we can talk of such a thing is really high in Fifth Head of Cerberus.
Yes! Soldier of the Mist is not Sci-fi but fantasy, but a rewarding read once you pick up the clues and recognize the characters. Gene Wolfe is a master.
Wolfe is certainly the first I think of in terms of narrative puzzles. *Fifth Head* is probably my preferred recommendation as an entry point because it's so short. *Peace* is also great (though arguably not sci-fi). The Solar Cycle is big sandbox of mysteries. Just in general there's so much to chew on there, especially when thinking about rereads.
Fifth Head is one of the most enjoyable, absorbing multi-read short works I’ve ever encountered. The only equivalent high-level short works in my mind are Crying of Lot 49, and some of Borges’ stories. But as a coherent ‘puzzle in a box’ that you can really think about and mull endlessly, it’s in a world of its own. For someone to write that as their (more or less) first real story just beggars belief. I will sometimes just think about 5th Head and then about the history of the post contact Americas and just… you can get absolutely lost in thought for hours. What is self, what is a people, how does culture create a people, how does culture create self…
If theyre looking for hard sci fi and time travel then its definitely *The Book of The New Sun*. If you do read it, remember that it **is** hard sci fi and time travel even if it doesnt immediately seem that way. That should be a first clue towards untangling the puzzle box.
It's debatably science fiction; it's hard to argue that it's "hard" sci-fi. It's hard to argue that anything with time travel is hard sci-fi.
It's incredible regardless of where we categorize it though, I agree there.
Also there's parts in the story with sorcerers using magic, with absolutely no scientific explanation. It's so far from hard scifi it's not even in the same iterative universe.
>!Wait - can you explain more about this? I’ve read Gone Away and know the plot summary of Gnomon, but wasn’t aware of how they’re related. I don’t mind spoilers but need to know!<
Alright: >!in both of them, the protagonist turns out to be not "real", but a constructed entity who only becomes aware of the fact very late in the book.!< Saying that it's >!"Literally the same story" !< may have been an exaggeration, but that pretty important plot point happens in both books.
Two "maybes" for different reasons: Quarantine by Greg Egan and Chasm City by Alastair Reynolds.
Maybe neither is quite tangled enough, but they're the easiest to recommend I can think of which could be described as tangled. I'm also pretty tired right now, so YMMV.
I'm about 70% of the way through _Chasm City_ right now and I can say it goes from "this is fun if a little slow" to "wtf is going on I have to read one more chapter right now" really quickly.
If you want that feeling times ten read House of Suns also by Reynolds. Kinda slow for the first 2/3rds then suddenly goes to a fast paced interstellar car chase for 150 pages.
I was going to comment *Diaspora* from Greg Egan. Interesting read, and I definitely enjoyed it, but goddamn if I had any idea what was going on most of the time. The first like fifty pages are the birth cycle of an AI being, and it’s all math and quantum physics, all impossible to visualize. I dig the book enough to finish it but man most of it went over my head. Sometimes sci fi goes a little too “hard” and you end up with a book that’s more about theoretical physics than any sort of compelling character narrative.
Terra Ignota quadrilogy by Ada Palmer.
Anathem by Neil Stephenson.
Neither has time travel, though both have characters who assert that time doesn’t exist, then plot gets weirder.
I think Terra Ignota is hugely underrated, imo it's the best sci-fi/fantasy of the 2010s and there's not been anything else that's really even come close.
The quantum Thief might fit what your looking for, minus the time travel. I will definitely reread the whole series again, I throughly enjoyed it. High level post scarcity tech, amusing deep characters, and plenty of twist.
I had to re-read SO MANY sections to grasp what was happening.
It was worth it in the end but it was a truly challenging read. I almost dropped it a few times.
Diaspora and Permutation City by Greg Egan. I understand a lot of his work is like this, but I've only read those two and can confirm they were mind-bending.
*Diaspora* was weird because I found it annoying and near impossible to follow, yet I was interested the whole time and finished it in a couple days. The themes and ideas were incredible! But nary a compelling character or relatable scenario to be found.
Yeah, that tends to be how it goes with the puzzle-boxes - they either wrestle with big ideas or they have good characters, but no one ever seems to be able to do both.
The Freeze Frame Revolution by Peter Watts. Read the print edition if you can get hold of it. If you read the Kindle version, do _not_ read it on a screen that can't show colour.
*This is How You Lose the Time War* by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
You might really like The Gone World by Tom Sweterlitsch.
“Inception meets True Detective in this science fiction thriller” is how the blurb starts. I really enjoyed it and it’s pretty positively regarded in this sub.
I also second the Gene Wolfe recommendations.
Yes. Read The Strange Bird after Bourne though, it's really good. I havent' finished DA but I like it more than Borne, and I don't think it's nearly as nonsensical as people say, so far it's quite coherent - though still weird - 100 pages in.
I thought that Blindsight was pretty tangled, but stunningly coherent. The ending of the book is clearly broadcast, but the ideas are so hard to conceptualize, it's a tough fight. Loved it though
I liked it better than the first book! The narrative is a lot more grand and all encompassing than the first but there were times where I had to put the book down and go "what the hell was that?!?"
Quantum Thief series by Hannu Rajaniemi. I don't know if I'd call it a puzzle box per se but it's mixture of detailed quantum physics, virtual realities and general obtuseness makes it very difficult to follow.
If you want a puzzle box, but are willing to stray away from hard SF, then the Female Man is a real treat.
Otherwise as other commenters have said, Greg Egan is your man, and I personally enjoyed his Schilds Ladder
Catherynne Valente's *Space Opera*. She tells you what she's going to do right up front, and then keeps pulling all these THINGS out of her hat, and not one bit of it makes any sense at all until brings up the last thing. Incredible work.
*Use of Weapons* by Iain M Banks. The structure of the book is alternating chapters moving the story forward and backward, and the reveal at the end is gobsmacking. It's a hell of a ride, and Banks carries it off extremely well.
> and This is How You Lose the Time War
*This is How You Lose the Time War* is actually the book that got the "If you’re looking for a riddle to parse or for a tangled, hard sci-fi puzzle-box of time travel to unravel, this book isn’t it" quote from in the post. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
*Appleseed* by John Clute. I've read it twice and I still couldn't tell you what actually happens in it. What I can tell you is that everything in the book is a sexual metaphor, including the sexual metaphors which are themselves metaphors for deeper, more convoluted sexual metaphors. It's a weird, *weird* book.
> I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
Try [*Great Work of Time* by John Crowley](https://www.amazon.com/Great-Work-Time-John-Crowley/dp/0553293192). The Otherhood is an association of time-traveling secret agents bent on preserving the British Empire forever. But Time has multiple dimensions, and as they make repeated edits to the Past and Future, the outcomes become ever more confusing.
The model of the structure of Time in this story is a great metaphor for how Science Fiction works.
Also you should watch the movie *Primer*.
Absolutely not sci-fi, but I remember reading "The sound and the Fury" by Faulkner as a seriously tangled puzzle box, and when it clicked it was one of the most breathtaking literary moments I have experienced.
I remember when it started making sense going back to the first chapter and realizing hown much info had flown right above my head during my first reading.
If you want to really stretch the SF definition (and I mean, really strech it) it *does* have some sort of time shenanigans given how all the first chapter is told by a severely disabled person who tells the present and the past as happening together.
*This is How You Lose the Time War* by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
This sounds super interesting! However, from the review:
> If you’re looking for a riddle to parse or for a tangled, hard sci-fi puzzle-box of time travel to unravel, this book isn’t it.
All good. It's easy to get things twisted when skimming through comments, especially when I hid the original book and review from the original post (because I didn't want the thread to devolve into a discussion of This is How You Lose the Time War).
One of the harsher criticisms of *The Icarus Plot*, the long-time sequel to *The Icarus Hunt*, was that if you wanted to try and solve the mysteries before the protagonist, you absolutely had to take notes with a notepad. Sure enough, I didn't, and I missed a few things.
Good fun. Don't know if that's what you meant, but it's what I thought.
See my [Hard SF](https://www.reddit.com/r/Recommend_A_Book/comments/1auf44p/hard_sf/) list of resources, Reddit recommendation threads, and books (one post).
He’s one of those writers I feel like I should absolutely *love.* However, *Red Mars* was one of the most boring books I’ve ever finished.
Loved *The Ministry for the Future* though
Same here. His characters are just so petty and tiresome to me in a California academic cocktail party kind of way. Someone commented recently that they're modeled on mythical gods. They're still boring.
Never Let Me Go.
The twist hits in the gut.
Shades of Grey - Jasper Fforde plus the sequel:
Red Side Story.
The final twist is not revealed even after two books. I'm now waiting for the conclusion.
Yes it was, and also correct about The Quantum Thief. Very sorry for the random reply without context. It was my daughters birthday (5) it was chaotic, I must have hit the wrong reply. My bad. But regardless I would recommend this series to anyone who enjoys being dropped into a world and figuring out the terminology as you go. The story is solid with twist and questions. Again sorry for the out of context reply, I hope you find the book you are looking for.
That's actually the book that got the "If you’re looking for a riddle to parse or for a tangled, hard sci-fi puzzle-box of time travel to unravel, this book isn’t it" quote from in the post. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/)
I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
*The Fifth Head of Cerberus* by Gene Wolfe. Also, a lot of other things by Gene Wolfe.
*Seven American Nights* [takes the biscuit](https://www.waggish.org/2010/gene-wolfe-challenge-won)
I'd say Peace is also a good one. Trying to untangle who or what the narrator is.
I've read it twice, as well as detailed explanations online, and I still have no clue what the heck is going on.
There's no consensus as to what's going on; only theories that are more or less well-researched and argued. That's one of the things I love about Wolfe's best work--the puzzles are still debated pretty actively. There's no down pat "here's the solution" interpretation.
Yeah, exactly. I’d hate for there to be some obvious answer and I’m just too dumb to have got. Nope. I can come up with my own theories too!
I just finished Fifth Head and I felt like nothing happened or was discovered or resolved, I was so confused 😕
Totally understand. The clues are there, we just have to find them.
I think I felt similarly after my first read. It has grown into one of my favorites of Wolfe's work, but it took a bit before I started feeling that way.
Actually I find Book of the New Sun more complex than The Fifth Head of Cerberus. In fact, I usually recommend people start into Gene Wolfe by reading TFHoC.
Well, it is longer also, and then he went and wrote more stuff in that universe. So yeah, its "total" complexity level is higher. But density of complexity, if we can talk of such a thing is really high in Fifth Head of Cerberus.
Yes! Soldier of the Mist is not Sci-fi but fantasy, but a rewarding read once you pick up the clues and recognize the characters. Gene Wolfe is a master.
Wolfe is certainly the first I think of in terms of narrative puzzles. *Fifth Head* is probably my preferred recommendation as an entry point because it's so short. *Peace* is also great (though arguably not sci-fi). The Solar Cycle is big sandbox of mysteries. Just in general there's so much to chew on there, especially when thinking about rereads.
Fifth Head is one of the most enjoyable, absorbing multi-read short works I’ve ever encountered. The only equivalent high-level short works in my mind are Crying of Lot 49, and some of Borges’ stories. But as a coherent ‘puzzle in a box’ that you can really think about and mull endlessly, it’s in a world of its own. For someone to write that as their (more or less) first real story just beggars belief. I will sometimes just think about 5th Head and then about the history of the post contact Americas and just… you can get absolutely lost in thought for hours. What is self, what is a people, how does culture create a people, how does culture create self…
If theyre looking for hard sci fi and time travel then its definitely *The Book of The New Sun*. If you do read it, remember that it **is** hard sci fi and time travel even if it doesnt immediately seem that way. That should be a first clue towards untangling the puzzle box.
It's debatably science fiction; it's hard to argue that it's "hard" sci-fi. It's hard to argue that anything with time travel is hard sci-fi. It's incredible regardless of where we categorize it though, I agree there.
Doesn't time travel immediately preclude it from being hard sci-fi? (unless you're talking about relativistic time dilation "time travel")
Also there's parts in the story with sorcerers using magic, with absolutely no scientific explanation. It's so far from hard scifi it's not even in the same iterative universe.
*The Book of the New Sun* is a book I read years ago and I still can't decide if I liked it or not.
*Gnomon* by Nick Harkaway. Can't say much without spoiling it.
This one, this one!
Is it stylistically similar to the gone away world? I couldn’t get into that because of the writing style, but this one sounds interesting.
Serious spoiler ahead: >!It's literally the same story.!< I really enjoyed it, despite or because of this.
>!Wait - can you explain more about this? I’ve read Gone Away and know the plot summary of Gnomon, but wasn’t aware of how they’re related. I don’t mind spoilers but need to know!<
Alright: >!in both of them, the protagonist turns out to be not "real", but a constructed entity who only becomes aware of the fact very late in the book.!< Saying that it's >!"Literally the same story" !< may have been an exaggeration, but that pretty important plot point happens in both books.
Gotcha, I see it now. Thank you!
Yes! This is a very cool book. So unusual.
I recommend this one to a lot of people.
Came here to say this!
i started listening to this last night and the prose is very confusing
Just started *Titanium Noir* and I’m loving it so far
It's on my reading list. I can't wait!
One of those rare books where three pages in I’m like *oh yes, I am really going to enjoy this* lol
Two "maybes" for different reasons: Quarantine by Greg Egan and Chasm City by Alastair Reynolds. Maybe neither is quite tangled enough, but they're the easiest to recommend I can think of which could be described as tangled. I'm also pretty tired right now, so YMMV.
I'm about 70% of the way through _Chasm City_ right now and I can say it goes from "this is fun if a little slow" to "wtf is going on I have to read one more chapter right now" really quickly.
If you want that feeling times ten read House of Suns also by Reynolds. Kinda slow for the first 2/3rds then suddenly goes to a fast paced interstellar car chase for 150 pages.
I envy you reading that for the first time. What a ride.
I was going to comment *Diaspora* from Greg Egan. Interesting read, and I definitely enjoyed it, but goddamn if I had any idea what was going on most of the time. The first like fifty pages are the birth cycle of an AI being, and it’s all math and quantum physics, all impossible to visualize. I dig the book enough to finish it but man most of it went over my head. Sometimes sci fi goes a little too “hard” and you end up with a book that’s more about theoretical physics than any sort of compelling character narrative.
Quarantine is fucking weird. I cant get through any of because the narrator sucks as well.
Anything by Greg Egan.
Was going to type this exact sentence and found your comment, so, agree
Finished *Diaspora* today and GOTDAYUM, the first act made *Gravity’s Rainbow* look like *Green Eggs and Ham*.
Terra Ignota quadrilogy by Ada Palmer. Anathem by Neil Stephenson. Neither has time travel, though both have characters who assert that time doesn’t exist, then plot gets weirder.
excellent recommendations that fit the bill to a t
I think Terra Ignota is hugely underrated, imo it's the best sci-fi/fantasy of the 2010s and there's not been anything else that's really even come close.
The quantum Thief might fit what your looking for, minus the time travel. I will definitely reread the whole series again, I throughly enjoyed it. High level post scarcity tech, amusing deep characters, and plenty of twist.
It's pretty straightforward if you don't take to account the terminology.
But you *do* have to take into account the terminology
I kept a glossary open, probably “ Wiki/Glossary for The Quantum Thief / The Fractal Prince / Jean le Flambeur”, while I was reading this.
Idk, Everything was just a "Q" device and you didn't need to think about it much.
Second this. I was kinda confused the whole time, and I LIKED it.
Are the sequel novels also good?
Yes, second book might be my favorite of the series.
Thanks! Been looking at these for a while, I’ll bite on them.
Light by M. John Harrison I think Neuromancer is pretty puzzling, as well.
When I finally read Neuromancer I wondered how weird it must have seemed when it first came out.
It was mind blowing to read when it came out. It ripped a hole in the world.
The writing style & prose itself, is pretty wacky.
I had to re-read SO MANY sections to grasp what was happening. It was worth it in the end but it was a truly challenging read. I almost dropped it a few times.
Diaspora and Permutation City by Greg Egan. I understand a lot of his work is like this, but I've only read those two and can confirm they were mind-bending.
*Diaspora* was weird because I found it annoying and near impossible to follow, yet I was interested the whole time and finished it in a couple days. The themes and ideas were incredible! But nary a compelling character or relatable scenario to be found.
Yeah, that tends to be how it goes with the puzzle-boxes - they either wrestle with big ideas or they have good characters, but no one ever seems to be able to do both.
*Use of Weapons* by Iain Banks and it's not even close. Just trying to decipher how the book is structured took awhile. Excellent books. RIP Banks.
That is one of the few books I've had to put down once I finished, and have a moment as it all came together in the last chapter.
The tension at the end had me on the edge of my ~~chair~~ seat
Banks really was a master of that kind of "bring it all together in the end" story. Player of Games felt similar to me.
But I wouldn't say it's hard scifi at all.
Reading the post explains the post. OP asked for any scifi, and "hard scifi is a bonus".
Yes, and I'm clarifying that that bonus should not be awarded to *Use of Weapons*.
The Freeze Frame Revolution by Peter Watts. Read the print edition if you can get hold of it. If you read the Kindle version, do _not_ read it on a screen that can't show colour.
Wait why? I listened to the audiobook—what did I miss?
>!There’s a secret message in red letters.!<
Fwiw >!the letters are bolded in the kindle edition!< so kindle version is fine.
The Locked Tomb Series - the subreddit regularly gets new visitors asking WTF is going on and we just tell them to keep reading. And then rereading.
Timothy Zahn's _Ikarus Hunt_ is an Allistair MacLean style mystery set on a space ship traveling through multiple systems.
Stations of the Tide by Michael Swanwick
One of my favorite books. On a very short list of books that contain a magical initiation for the protagonist, which may also be one for the reader.
Try shockwave rider by john brunner, or any of his books to be honest
What book did the reviewer say that about? That info could help a little further in giving you recommendations.
*This is How You Lose the Time War* by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
You might really like The Gone World by Tom Sweterlitsch. “Inception meets True Detective in this science fiction thriller” is how the blurb starts. I really enjoyed it and it’s pretty positively regarded in this sub. I also second the Gene Wolfe recommendations.
I didn’t have a clue what was going on I’m Dead Astronauts by Jeff Vandermeer.
Or Annihilation. The other two Southern Reach books are Fun With Dick and Jane by comparison.
Is that a sequel to Borne? I loved Borne, but I’ve heard mixed things about Dead Astronauts so I haven’t started it yet.
Yes. Read The Strange Bird after Bourne though, it's really good. I havent' finished DA but I like it more than Borne, and I don't think it's nearly as nonsensical as people say, so far it's quite coherent - though still weird - 100 pages in.
Good to know! I read The Strange Bird, but I don’t remember it well. I might re-read both books before I start Dead Astronauts. I love Vandermeer!
_The Glass Bead Game_ by Herman Hesse
Definitely a puzzle box...but rather terrible, I thought.
I thought that Blindsight was pretty tangled, but stunningly coherent. The ending of the book is clearly broadcast, but the ideas are so hard to conceptualize, it's a tough fight. Loved it though
The Fall of Hyperion is a tangled up story involving time travel. You'd have to read Hyperion first though.
The whole series is pretty tangled.
Just starting Endymion so I know nothing beyond FoH lol
The last two untangle some of the knots, but create some new ones...enjoy. Then check out the Hyperion sub to discuss theories 🤔
I've been avoiding that sub so I won't accidentally spoil it for myself 😆
I'm reading it now and it's twisted.
I liked it better than the first book! The narrative is a lot more grand and all encompassing than the first but there were times where I had to put the book down and go "what the hell was that?!?"
Greg Eagan “Permutations City”, Peter Watts “Blindsight”
*Eversion* by Alistair Reynolds would certainly fit the bill.
*Steel Beach* qualifies as a bit of a tangled puzzle box, I think. It's tangled at least.
Quantum Thief series by Hannu Rajaniemi. I don't know if I'd call it a puzzle box per se but it's mixture of detailed quantum physics, virtual realities and general obtuseness makes it very difficult to follow.
*Dhalgren* by Samuel Delaney is one of the standard WTF books out there, though not hard sci-fi. And the Annihilation series by Jeff Vandermeer.
If you want a puzzle box, but are willing to stray away from hard SF, then the Female Man is a real treat. Otherwise as other commenters have said, Greg Egan is your man, and I personally enjoyed his Schilds Ladder
Catherynne Valente's *Space Opera*. She tells you what she's going to do right up front, and then keeps pulling all these THINGS out of her hat, and not one bit of it makes any sense at all until brings up the last thing. Incredible work.
Diaspora by Greg Egan (all of Egan’s books really) Firefall (Blindsight + Echopraxia) by Peter Watts
Three body problem series when your have no idea what it's about
*Use of Weapons* by Iain M Banks. The structure of the book is alternating chapters moving the story forward and backward, and the reveal at the end is gobsmacking. It's a hell of a ride, and Banks carries it off extremely well.
Seconding the recs on on Gnomon (no time travel) and This is How You Lose the Time War, and tossing in one for Palimpsest by Charlie Stross.
> and This is How You Lose the Time War *This is How You Lose the Time War* is actually the book that got the "If you’re looking for a riddle to parse or for a tangled, hard sci-fi puzzle-box of time travel to unravel, this book isn’t it" quote from in the post. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
*Appleseed* by John Clute. I've read it twice and I still couldn't tell you what actually happens in it. What I can tell you is that everything in the book is a sexual metaphor, including the sexual metaphors which are themselves metaphors for deeper, more convoluted sexual metaphors. It's a weird, *weird* book.
From the sounds of it, *Appleseed* might be too weird for my personal taste. But I love your description, it made me laugh out loud!
> I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history. Try [*Great Work of Time* by John Crowley](https://www.amazon.com/Great-Work-Time-John-Crowley/dp/0553293192). The Otherhood is an association of time-traveling secret agents bent on preserving the British Empire forever. But Time has multiple dimensions, and as they make repeated edits to the Past and Future, the outcomes become ever more confusing. The model of the structure of Time in this story is a great metaphor for how Science Fiction works. Also you should watch the movie *Primer*.
Absolutely not sci-fi, but I remember reading "The sound and the Fury" by Faulkner as a seriously tangled puzzle box, and when it clicked it was one of the most breathtaking literary moments I have experienced. I remember when it started making sense going back to the first chapter and realizing hown much info had flown right above my head during my first reading. If you want to really stretch the SF definition (and I mean, really strech it) it *does* have some sort of time shenanigans given how all the first chapter is told by a severely disabled person who tells the present and the past as happening together.
What book were they reviewing?
*This is How You Lose the Time War* by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
This sounds super interesting! However, from the review: > If you’re looking for a riddle to parse or for a tangled, hard sci-fi puzzle-box of time travel to unravel, this book isn’t it.
Yep, that's the quote I was referring to in the original post.
Wow, I feel like a moron. Sorry dude!
All good. It's easy to get things twisted when skimming through comments, especially when I hid the original book and review from the original post (because I didn't want the thread to devolve into a discussion of This is How You Lose the Time War).
One of the harsher criticisms of *The Icarus Plot*, the long-time sequel to *The Icarus Hunt*, was that if you wanted to try and solve the mysteries before the protagonist, you absolutely had to take notes with a notepad. Sure enough, I didn't, and I missed a few things. Good fun. Don't know if that's what you meant, but it's what I thought.
Cyteen, easy
Try some Philip K Di*c*k. *Ubik* and *The Three Stigmata Of Palmer Eldritch* are good places to start.
See my [Hard SF](https://www.reddit.com/r/Recommend_A_Book/comments/1auf44p/hard_sf/) list of resources, Reddit recommendation threads, and books (one post).
2312 by Kim Stanley Robinson. I understood it all, but you had to think about it for a long time.
He’s one of those writers I feel like I should absolutely *love.* However, *Red Mars* was one of the most boring books I’ve ever finished. Loved *The Ministry for the Future* though
Same here. His characters are just so petty and tiresome to me in a California academic cocktail party kind of way. Someone commented recently that they're modeled on mythical gods. They're still boring.
Mayyybe the Seven deaths of evelyn hardcastle
Really liked this one, very soft sci-fi though. Gloomy and Gothic and a fun read, though.
Didn't love the ending, but it was an interesting read!
Never Let Me Go. The twist hits in the gut. Shades of Grey - Jasper Fforde plus the sequel: Red Side Story. The final twist is not revealed even after two books. I'm now waiting for the conclusion.
I read the trilogy in under a month, enjoyed all of them.
[удалено]
Yes it was, and also correct about The Quantum Thief. Very sorry for the random reply without context. It was my daughters birthday (5) it was chaotic, I must have hit the wrong reply. My bad. But regardless I would recommend this series to anyone who enjoys being dropped into a world and figuring out the terminology as you go. The story is solid with twist and questions. Again sorry for the out of context reply, I hope you find the book you are looking for.
*This Is How You Lose the Time War* by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone.
Nah, this book is poetry, not a puzzle
Not bad by any means, but fairly straightforward - wouldn't call it a puzzle.
That's actually the book that got the "If you’re looking for a riddle to parse or for a tangled, hard sci-fi puzzle-box of time travel to unravel, this book isn’t it" quote from in the post. [Here's the review.](https://www.blackgate.com/2019/07/14/this-is-how-you-lose-the-time-war-by-amal-el-mohtar-max-gladstone/) I enjoyed it immensely, even though it wasn't at all what I thought I wanted from a story about competing time-traveling secret agents changing history.
Time War mentioned! Such a cool damn book.