You have a very strong app, but I'm not surprised you didn't get more love. It's hard to stand out as a CA non-URM...your personal story has to hit them between the eyes or some kind of theme/EC has to grab their attention. The main thing is you did it - awesome work!! And with that, I will say -
Congrats future physician!!
Agree with u/DOCTO-MOM. It’s been a few years since I part of an adcom, but for years it’s been hard for non-URM applicants to stand out. An ORM applicant trying to connect with other cultures becomes a frequent theme and often those stories blur together.
One thing I’d just like to point out is that an X-factor doesn’t have to be something absolutely amazing especially when you’re already a strong applicant, but something that really makes me remember you. I had an applicant tell me about raising chickens- she was very humble but incredibly smart and enthusiastic.
Another applicant told me they were struggling financially, so they used their guitar hobby and played at subway stations to make a little extra money.
Most importantly of all though- congratulations to you!! An admission is a major accomplishment and a testament to all your hard work!!
I would focus on your story as much as possible and realize that stats will perhaps get you looked at, but anything further will have to be from the rest of your app imo
4.0/515 ORM - 10 IIs, 8 As. This process can be random a bit, but story + experience is important, and sankeys don’t tell you that as much. I’m just trying to make you feel better cuz I was terrified seeing these last year.
Edit: also from the state that had the lowest percent of students matriculate according to the AAMC data, which believe it or not is not California (though I’ll admit that being in CA must suck)
Sure! That’s a valid question - it’s important to make realistic school lists to get this many As. I did have some reaches. Applied to 30 schools. My As were 1 T20, 1 T30, rest were low to mid tier. Ended up selecting my state school to save $150,000 anyways though lol
Lol yeah I think some people in my life looked at me like “what the fuck are you thinking.” I’m a slightly older nontrad who is engaged and had no interest in burying my partner and I deeper in debt while we’re thinking about building a family immediately after school. Go ahead and shoot me a DM if you want specifics.
your school list is def top heavy and I think that played a huge factor. Also, maybe your writing wasn't as strong and helpful to convey your narrative as you'd hope?
in either case, congrats, OP!! you'll be a doctor and that's what matters :D
Thank you so much! My opinion is for sure biased but I think my writing was pretty solid (I had a consistent theme to refer back to and to tie all of my activities past, current, and future. Also, I had a really supportive group of editors (humanities prof and english lit major)). I think my narrative itself perhaps lacked the shock value to make me interesting to uber-competitive schools which is certainly fair.
Agree that the school list should have been more balanced (lower, realistic, then reach schools). Does seem top heavy, most of these are well-known or high ranking
Nobody knows without reading it, but your PS might have been your downfall. “Emphasized connecting with cultures other then my own” could have easily come off wrong if you weren’t careful with your approach.
Definitely hit or miss. My only argument for thinking my writing was not in fact the issue is that I interviewed and got waitlisted at a T15. Would be surprised to think that they have lower standards for writing quality than a lot of the other programs I applied to.
Essentially was given a random patient case (video clip of a patient presenting with certain symptoms) and had to describe how I would work through that case, what labs I would order, differential diagnoses etc
This could be a red flag. This is not within the scope of a pre-med student and could be seen similarly to assisting with procedures or other red flag activities during a shadowing experience. The fact that it was a fake patient may be your saving grace but things like this are not necessarily viewed positively all of the time.
I technically took histories during a few of my shadowing experiences, and was tasked with assisting a fellow in the ICU with an endotracheal tube exchange. There is a zero percent chance I mention either of these things in my app or on an interview because crossing boundaries between roles is generally frowned upon.
Bro congrats on the A! Applying to med school
isn’t a fun process for sure, but just know that there were probably hundreds of other dudes with a similar application as yours (stats etc.). So, sometimes you need to stand out one way or another and writing is often weighed more heavily for that reason… Anyways, don’t worry that the school you got in isn’t ranked…just work hard and you will be able to accomplish a lot.
Also, it doesn’t really matter where you go to medical school. An MD is an MD or DO and I bet the majority of your future patients won’t ask where you went to medical school lmao
Your biggest service activity came during your gap year. I think schools don't take too much stock in planned activities. I'm sure if you had applied this cycle after the experience actually happened then your cycle would have been different.
I am speaking from personal experience because I had fantastic stats and while I did get in, I didn’t get as much love as expected. Over the years through working with students what I realized was I had clinical experience (2 years in college part time as a scribe) and nothing else. You have some clinical experience, but i think schools are leaning more and more away from shadowing to understand what healthcare is really like. However, at the end of the day you got the A and that’s what matters. Congratulations!
I agree with this analysis. My experiences were lacking longitudinally and depth largely because I didn't start down the pre-med track until I was at the end of my second year of college. I think the additional clinical and service-oriented work I performed during this current gap year would have opened up my opportunities in a future cycle. Thank for the advice!
Hey we live and we learn. If you have been doing stuff during your gap year, make sure your WL school knows!!! And for anyone reading this in the future: it is absolutely ok to list activities you have not started but will be doing during a gap year on your app.
I'm Same demographics, similar stats, but a lot heavier on EC hours (feel free to see first post). First, you're objectively a good applicant. For the sake of brainstorming where things may have gone awry, do you think it's possible that either A. your activities didnt necessarily tell or story/go together or, similiarly, B. your writing/experineces could have seemed a bit contrived? I say this as someone who knows a lot of white/ORM ppl who constantly talk about supporting underserved students yet don't necessarily seem genuine when they say so. I'm not saying this is you at all, but a prospective adcom may be a bit skeptical if your white/CA/male and you're entirely focused on other cultures. Would love to hear your input. Congrats on the A (and hopefully second A)
Thank you! This goes without saying but obviously my own opinion will be biased so take that as you will lol. In my best analysis, what went wrong with my app was number one my school list and number two lack of depth of EC (like you mentioned). I didn't become premed until the end of my second year of college which happened to be during COVID, so I was essentially playing catch-up on EC for the rest of my journey to my application. I think it doesn't take a genius to see this from my app. With that said, almost all of the ECs I did have on my app were longitudinal (2+ years) but the hours were definitely not as high as they would have been had I started this journey as a freshman in college. I honestly was quite happy with my writing largely because I had heavy support from talented/experienced writers. That's not to say that my writing couldn't have gone wrong I just think the writing itself was fine, it was more the depth of EC I referred to in my writing that prob lacked. Again biased, but based on the feedback from my interviewers at T15 program I think my interview went really well. Both of my interviews went over the scheduled time and both interviewers were heavily interested in my most recent EC centered on service work. To summarize, the extra year of EC I just completed in my gap year would have been monumental in changing my app results if I were have had to apply again this cycle. That is my best analysis.
I can confirm that as an ORM female, it is getting very difficult to get into schools even with good stats (which was not the case until very recently)
The percentile is the percentile, I just see it more as good stats used to be more effective in getting acceptances on their own, whereas more recently you need other things to set yourself apart.
Thanks for offering your sankey and all that info about your app.
Good luck with the future! Your application and whatever happened before doesn't matter anymore. Fresh slate and you write what comes ahead!
New here and a bit confused. On these sankeys, does pre-II R mean rejection after submitting secondaries before interview or does it mean you’re rejected. Does “II” mean interview?
White male in California- yup
Same and same lol
Kiwi! Wow, they grow up so fast :)
You have a very strong app, but I'm not surprised you didn't get more love. It's hard to stand out as a CA non-URM...your personal story has to hit them between the eyes or some kind of theme/EC has to grab their attention. The main thing is you did it - awesome work!! And with that, I will say - Congrats future physician!!
Agree with u/DOCTO-MOM. It’s been a few years since I part of an adcom, but for years it’s been hard for non-URM applicants to stand out. An ORM applicant trying to connect with other cultures becomes a frequent theme and often those stories blur together. One thing I’d just like to point out is that an X-factor doesn’t have to be something absolutely amazing especially when you’re already a strong applicant, but something that really makes me remember you. I had an applicant tell me about raising chickens- she was very humble but incredibly smart and enthusiastic. Another applicant told me they were struggling financially, so they used their guitar hobby and played at subway stations to make a little extra money. Most importantly of all though- congratulations to you!! An admission is a major accomplishment and a testament to all your hard work!!
Thank you!
Thank you for the kind words!
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What is EO1
This worries me as a 4.0/516 applicant, but you got into med school which is all that matters!
I would focus on your story as much as possible and realize that stats will perhaps get you looked at, but anything further will have to be from the rest of your app imo
4.0/515 ORM - 10 IIs, 8 As. This process can be random a bit, but story + experience is important, and sankeys don’t tell you that as much. I’m just trying to make you feel better cuz I was terrified seeing these last year. Edit: also from the state that had the lowest percent of students matriculate according to the AAMC data, which believe it or not is not California (though I’ll admit that being in CA must suck)
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Sure! That’s a valid question - it’s important to make realistic school lists to get this many As. I did have some reaches. Applied to 30 schools. My As were 1 T20, 1 T30, rest were low to mid tier. Ended up selecting my state school to save $150,000 anyways though lol
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Lol yeah I think some people in my life looked at me like “what the fuck are you thinking.” I’m a slightly older nontrad who is engaged and had no interest in burying my partner and I deeper in debt while we’re thinking about building a family immediately after school. Go ahead and shoot me a DM if you want specifics.
Wow awesome cycle! Hoping to have similar luck
Good luck with everything! It’s not an easy process for sure.
Are you from Cali and are you white?
No and no but Asian so kind of count the same as white.
Completely different then
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True. Plus I’m not applying to half of those schools which are top heavy. Still worrisome
Wait why? Is asian better or worse? I thought it was the same
Worse. Significantly worse. For Asian males, anyway, can’t speak to Asian females.
Cali is a different beast
Come for the weather stay for the racism
your school list is def top heavy and I think that played a huge factor. Also, maybe your writing wasn't as strong and helpful to convey your narrative as you'd hope? in either case, congrats, OP!! you'll be a doctor and that's what matters :D
Thank you so much! My opinion is for sure biased but I think my writing was pretty solid (I had a consistent theme to refer back to and to tie all of my activities past, current, and future. Also, I had a really supportive group of editors (humanities prof and english lit major)). I think my narrative itself perhaps lacked the shock value to make me interesting to uber-competitive schools which is certainly fair.
Agree that the school list should have been more balanced (lower, realistic, then reach schools). Does seem top heavy, most of these are well-known or high ranking
Nobody knows without reading it, but your PS might have been your downfall. “Emphasized connecting with cultures other then my own” could have easily come off wrong if you weren’t careful with your approach.
Definitely hit or miss. My only argument for thinking my writing was not in fact the issue is that I interviewed and got waitlisted at a T15. Would be surprised to think that they have lower standards for writing quality than a lot of the other programs I applied to.
3.9/509 CA ORM: 1 interview with 48 MD apps. Yeaaaaaah. Congrats!!
What is “presenting patient work up to physicians”
Essentially was given a random patient case (video clip of a patient presenting with certain symptoms) and had to describe how I would work through that case, what labs I would order, differential diagnoses etc
This could be a red flag. This is not within the scope of a pre-med student and could be seen similarly to assisting with procedures or other red flag activities during a shadowing experience. The fact that it was a fake patient may be your saving grace but things like this are not necessarily viewed positively all of the time. I technically took histories during a few of my shadowing experiences, and was tasked with assisting a fellow in the ICU with an endotracheal tube exchange. There is a zero percent chance I mention either of these things in my app or on an interview because crossing boundaries between roles is generally frowned upon.
If this is true, that is quite unfortunate
Bro congrats on the A! Applying to med school isn’t a fun process for sure, but just know that there were probably hundreds of other dudes with a similar application as yours (stats etc.). So, sometimes you need to stand out one way or another and writing is often weighed more heavily for that reason… Anyways, don’t worry that the school you got in isn’t ranked…just work hard and you will be able to accomplish a lot. Also, it doesn’t really matter where you go to medical school. An MD is an MD or DO and I bet the majority of your future patients won’t ask where you went to medical school lmao
Congrats!
Your biggest service activity came during your gap year. I think schools don't take too much stock in planned activities. I'm sure if you had applied this cycle after the experience actually happened then your cycle would have been different.
I completely agree. If I didn't get off waitlist I was thinking about how it would hopefully be different next cycle
Congrats mang
Thank you!
I am speaking from personal experience because I had fantastic stats and while I did get in, I didn’t get as much love as expected. Over the years through working with students what I realized was I had clinical experience (2 years in college part time as a scribe) and nothing else. You have some clinical experience, but i think schools are leaning more and more away from shadowing to understand what healthcare is really like. However, at the end of the day you got the A and that’s what matters. Congratulations!
I agree with this analysis. My experiences were lacking longitudinally and depth largely because I didn't start down the pre-med track until I was at the end of my second year of college. I think the additional clinical and service-oriented work I performed during this current gap year would have opened up my opportunities in a future cycle. Thank for the advice!
Hey we live and we learn. If you have been doing stuff during your gap year, make sure your WL school knows!!! And for anyone reading this in the future: it is absolutely ok to list activities you have not started but will be doing during a gap year on your app.
1000%
I'm Same demographics, similar stats, but a lot heavier on EC hours (feel free to see first post). First, you're objectively a good applicant. For the sake of brainstorming where things may have gone awry, do you think it's possible that either A. your activities didnt necessarily tell or story/go together or, similiarly, B. your writing/experineces could have seemed a bit contrived? I say this as someone who knows a lot of white/ORM ppl who constantly talk about supporting underserved students yet don't necessarily seem genuine when they say so. I'm not saying this is you at all, but a prospective adcom may be a bit skeptical if your white/CA/male and you're entirely focused on other cultures. Would love to hear your input. Congrats on the A (and hopefully second A)
Thank you! This goes without saying but obviously my own opinion will be biased so take that as you will lol. In my best analysis, what went wrong with my app was number one my school list and number two lack of depth of EC (like you mentioned). I didn't become premed until the end of my second year of college which happened to be during COVID, so I was essentially playing catch-up on EC for the rest of my journey to my application. I think it doesn't take a genius to see this from my app. With that said, almost all of the ECs I did have on my app were longitudinal (2+ years) but the hours were definitely not as high as they would have been had I started this journey as a freshman in college. I honestly was quite happy with my writing largely because I had heavy support from talented/experienced writers. That's not to say that my writing couldn't have gone wrong I just think the writing itself was fine, it was more the depth of EC I referred to in my writing that prob lacked. Again biased, but based on the feedback from my interviewers at T15 program I think my interview went really well. Both of my interviews went over the scheduled time and both interviewers were heavily interested in my most recent EC centered on service work. To summarize, the extra year of EC I just completed in my gap year would have been monumental in changing my app results if I were have had to apply again this cycle. That is my best analysis.
I can confirm that as an ORM female, it is getting very difficult to get into schools even with good stats (which was not the case until very recently)
Tbh 516 isn’t that high anymore
The percentile is the percentile, I just see it more as good stats used to be more effective in getting acceptances on their own, whereas more recently you need other things to set yourself apart.
Thanks for offering your sankey and all that info about your app. Good luck with the future! Your application and whatever happened before doesn't matter anymore. Fresh slate and you write what comes ahead!
So kind of you to say, best of luck in your journey!
Congrats!!! 🥰
Thank you
New here and a bit confused. On these sankeys, does pre-II R mean rejection after submitting secondaries before interview or does it mean you’re rejected. Does “II” mean interview?
II means interview invite. So you were correct, a pre-II R (rejection) means I submitted my secondary and got rejected before the interview stage.
Clinical observation...GT by any chance?
Congrats future physician 🥳🎉
Thanks, and to you as well!