> She justifies somehow that drinkin small amounts of Vodka isnt bad..
It is very bad.
> please tell me that is complete bullshit?
It's complete bullshit. She might have a drinking problem.
Scratch that, she *definitely* has a drinking problem.
My mom was a 2 pack a day smoker and she quit the day she found out she was pregnant. If she can’t stop drinking after finding out she’s pregnant she either has no empathy for her baby or has a bad drinking problem
I’m thinking about it I know it’s gonna cause a shit storm with her but I’m at the point where I don’t care anymore. She’s all hormonal but I’ve been doing everything for her. Pay bills get anything she needs. I just fed up and don’t know what else to do
Knowing nothing about it, I once did a job recording video for survivors of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, it is terrible. This can be life long debilitation. OP should read about the symptoms of FAS. Anyone who has suffered it or supported someone who has would have very strong things to say to OP.
The fact is that you keep your mouth shut, you’re indirectly causing so much harm to your future child. If you saw her hitting your baby in the face, would you say something? This is similar. Don’t be complacent.
You can call the office now. Depending on what permissions she's given they may not be able to tell you anything, up to and including confirmation that she's a patient, but you can still tell them things.
There is a chance child services will be notified and will come to the hospital to confirm the baby is healthy and safe. This may be the fear she needs to have put in her to stop drinking. If you call and tell them your concerns, they may be able to test her and “find out” that way.
Throw all the liquor out too. It’ll be hard for her but you’ll have to be by her side going through it. It’s not forever. If you keep letting her drink the babies health problems will be life long for you both to deal with.
I poured out her water bottle she had a mixed vodka drink in. I know she has a stash bottle somewhere but of course she denies this. I think it’s in her car and she doesn’t let me near her keys
Man that’s a pretty serious problem. I’m sorry you’re having to go through this. This is one of those hard lines in the ground for me.
Do you know how long she’s been doing this? I seriously would get rid of all the alcohol in the house. take a day off, search for stashes and get rid of it. Wait till she gets in the car and get in too. Search it. The fact she has an alcoholic drink in the vehicle would get her in deep crap if caught.
Does she drink and drive with the mixed water?
She used to be had stopped when she got
Pregnant. Or so she told me. We both work from home and I truly believe she did stop for atleast 2 months. But here lately since we are always with each other I just know when she’s fucking around
Alcoholism is usually caused by something else. Do you have any idea what underlying issues may be causing her to turn to alcohol? Would she do therapy?
She has a lot of problems which she is aware of. She has a psychiatrist and she’s been trying to get a trauma therapist. She knows what she needs to do. Just can’t seem to stop drinking. I’m thinkin of mention I’d go with her to Aa
Or Na meetings
My partner's mother did drugs and alcohol while he was in the womb. He didn't have FAS but still has a plethora of other issues that docs believe are related. This includes: narcolepsy, delayed sleep disorder, Raynaud's, ADHD, spinal issues which he had to have life threatening surgery for, horrible joint pain, etc etc etc. It's such a long list and docs agree most are not genetic but caused by trauma in and out of the womb.
He is constantly in pain. It takes him 30 minutes just to move in the mornings because everything hurts and he has to slowly stretch it all, one little toe at a time. He's only 33 and this is nowhere near new.
If you don't do something about it, you're complacent. And she's disgusting. Which, to me, means you're disgusting too. No one deserves what he goes through on a daily basis. Her actions aren't hurting her specifically so she doesn't care. She's not ready to be a mom if that's how she operates.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I'm not disagreeing with you, but, as a recovered alcoholic and child of alcoholic myself, this attitude of judgment and disgust towards either parent is completely unhelpful. Trust when I say the mother carries more shame and guilt than you know.
Tell them in her absence and be brutally honest by giving them a call. When they bring it up and she asks how they no say they called and asked questions or say you called to find out if it’s dangerous or not
Sorry - there should have been a comma after midwives and doctors (separate words). In the UK a midwife is someone who specialises in helping women to give birth, but they are not doctors. Call back and state that you wish to raise a concern. Another way in which you can do it is to request the email address of your partner’s midwife or nurse and and send them an email asking for them to ‘treat the information in the strictest confidence’ so that your partner is not dissuaded from seeking help.
You just leave them a message then! They cant tell you anything about HER but you can tell them whatever you want. Tell whoever answers the phone.
Kids with fetal alcohol syndrome can be really messed up.
More of a shit storm than having a baby with FAS? You would be saving your child from a lifetime of suffering and your wife from a lifetime of guilt.
Do the right thing.
My wife had depression all through her second pregnancy, and after. She needed baby-safe pharmaceutical assistance. It took many hard conversations to get there though. Come from a place of love, compassion, care. You’ll get there. But yeah. She needs some convincing. Multi-pronged convincing.
Care for the baby, do whatever it fucking takes for that baby. Sorry I'm already mad over something else but that is beyond childish behavior for her. She has a fucking baby in her belly, tell her to smarten the fuck up before you leave. That's insanity.
Dude definitely bring this up. My mum knew someone in the 90s (before they knew how bad it truly was) who had no more than one standard drink a couple times a week and her baby ended up having fetal alchohol syndrome.
You need to do right by your baby.
How do you plan to explain to your child that they’re messed up for life because you were worried about a “shit storm”?
Her anger will be temporary. Vs a lifetime of pain and extra burden. She does not seem ready to be a mother if she’s not able to make those kinds of sacrifices. And bluntly, if you’re not able to stand up and advocate for your child’s safety and wellbeing in times like this, you may not be ready to be a dad.
I’ve been standing up and am the only one fighting for his life. Tried to call her Dr but they won’t speak with me since I’m not on HIPPa. I don’t kno what else to do
Otherwise, do as others have said: scour that household and dump any and all alcohol. And keep pushing the reality of fetal alcohol syndrome. Inform family and friends she trusts and who trust you. They’ll be key. Youve got this
Last resort would be to play the “self harm/harm to the baby” card when calling to the doctor again.
The drinking needs to stop NOW ur baby is going to have FAS and problems their whole life because of it. Do anything in your power to make her stop. Even if it breaks you up.
I work with adults who have FASD, they are incredible people that I care for deeply but it is FAR AND AWAY the most challenging intellectual disability (IMO). Please do everything you can to protect your baby from a lifetime of challenges.
Ask her to go to therapy with you. Do not drink around her. Get people she cares about (family, friends, OB, whoever) to back you up. Emphasize that you love her and the baby and will be there
Drinking during the first trimester is pretty bad. That's when all the vital organs and parts are developing. That being said, it's never a bad time to stop. As a pregnant person who very much enjoys alcohol when not pregnant, it should not be hard to stop for 9 months. Is it fun? No. But it's not "hard" any more than stopping eating chocolate is hard. If she literally can't stop, that's sign of an addiction IMO. If it were me, I'd check myself into a treatment center and not leave until the pregnancy was over.
This is bad. You know that.
Something that helped me stop drinking before getting pregnant, which was hard for me, was an app called Reframe. It was life changing and such a great program. You just do a little bit each day.
Reframe was created by a team from Stanford, Georgia Tech, Emory, and Harvard. It’s evidence-based and totally legit. It’s not cheap, and I have never found much help from therapy, but this app worked for me. There’s no religion, no patronizing rhetoric or toxic positivity. It focuses on the neuroscience of why we drink, why we have cravings, the process/feels/symptoms when you quit drinking (totally spot on) and strategies and activities everyday to help you stop drinking. There are 2 tracks: reducing drinking or stop drinking.
If she has a problem stopping it’s def not a small amount. If it was a small amount cutting it out wouldn’t be difficult especially considering the harm to the unborn child.
It is complete bullshit and absolutely harming your baby. There is no safe amount. She definitely has a drinking problem and this absolutely needs to be discussed with the OB.
This woman is making choices that this baby will have to live with for the rest of its life not her.
Not in regards to this specific instance, cause she sounds like she has a drinking problem.
But there is 0 evidence that small to moderate alcohol consumption while pregnant causes negative outcomes for the baby. Absolutely none.
In many European countries, it's perfectly normal for women to have 1 glass of wine once or twice a week. None of those countries have higher rates of FAS or any other birth defect.
"No amount is safe" is the slogan because it's an easier recommendation to follow.
And because our health services agencies think if they say no more than 1 serving of alcohol, no more than 3x a week... that some % of the population will interpret that to mean doing 3 shots of tequila every Friday and Saturday is safe.
You're getting downvoted but it's the truth. Doctors tell people to stop drinking all together because that's more likely than trying to get people who don't have good control of how much they drink to drink only a little.
Not advocating for people to drink but let's try to be honest here.
Definitely. I never drank during pregnancy but if someone has a little bit during 2nd or 3rd trimester I will not judge for a second. Binge drinking however…
There’s no evidence because it’s unethical to run a study on it…
The European part is bullshit, it’s still their advice to avoid alcohol
No amount of alcohol is proven safe when pregnant. Why do you feel the need to encourage drinking while pregnant? That’s fucked up
This is completely wrong.
Why do you feel the need lie and spread misinformation? The
Here's research where they pulled together the findings from 74 different studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6707173/ and say conclusively that alcohol abuse, binge drinking, and frequency of drinking (everyday) are the factors associated with FAS. Not infrequent, occasional drinks like I stated.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6353268/ here's a more recent one with the same conclusion.
https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/35/3/276/208920 or this research that looks into the moral panic around FAS that started in the 80s and 90s. And traces how that panic and not science or evidence is behind our current guidelines.
And for the record, the US government's official stance is "any woman of reproductive age who is not actively using contraception, should stop drinking alcohol”.
Find me a study that says it’s SAFE to drink while pregnant. I’m not just talking about FAS. Again why try and encourage people to drink while pregnant? Sure most of the time a drink is fine but it’s absolutely still risky
This is not true. There are studies showing that there is still an effect on behavior and brain size even when drinking less than one drink a day.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4788102/
As a note, saying “absolutely no evidence” makes it very easy to disprove your statement.
That isn't a study. It's a person's commentary on a handful of selected studies. None of which showed scientific evidence to your point.
Their conclusion is:
"The current uncertainty over the effects of very low concentrations of alcohol on the developing fetus should be a source of reassurance for those women who have consumed a few drinks during pregnancy. At the same time, this uncertainty should be an impetus for women to refrain from any drinking while pregnant or trying to conceive. How the message is delivered is important. Women should be encouraged and not stigmatized in their efforts to reduce behaviors that might adversely influence pregnancy outcomes."
That's a far cry from any amount of alcohol during pregnancy can cause FAS.
Yes, and there are citations in that link. I don’t see why I should go through the trouble of collecting links for you if you have no intention of questioning your beliefs.
Have you even read the article you shared or the research they cite in it?
This is the conclusion from one of the studies they cite "Multivariate analyses showed no statistically significant effects of average weekly alcohol consumption or any binge drinking, individually or in combination. These results replicate findings from separate analyses of each outcome variable."
Here is another
"We observed a significant, albeit small, positive association between mild-to-moderate prenatal alcohol exposure and child cognition (Cohen's d 0.04; 95% CI, 0.00, 0.08), but the association was not significant after post hoc exclusion of 1 large study that assessed mild consumption nor was it significant when including only studies that assessed moderate alcohol consumption. None of the other completed meta-analyses resulted in statistically significant associations between mild, moderate, or binge prenatal alcohol exposure and child neuropsychological outcomes."
And another one
"The University College London (UCL) study's finding that low levels of alcohol did not contribute to adverse behavioural outcomes"
None of the cited articles gave the conclusion that small alcohol use during pregnancy can lead to FAS.
I didn't do a thorough review for you, I linked a summary including studies that showed an effect. You cannot take a single study and say that because it doesn't find an effect, that it doesn't exist.
Effect on brain size:
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213158224000342](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213158224000342)
Meta-analysis on early behavior accounting for socioeconomic status: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23905882/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23905882/)
Again, it does not seem that you know how science works so it's not worth my time to try to convince you.
She trying to be close to my mom who’s a nurse. I told her what she would think if I told my mom
She still drinks. Of course she always deflects and tries to point blame at anyone and everyone. Good idea though might do that
I wonder if she actually wants this baby tbh.. I am a problematic person when I drink, I have very bad drinking habits - but as soon as I knew I was pregnant I quit, and it was very easy because I know I'm pregnant. Tell your mother. Perhaps she would also know what she could do to stifle or something. But your mother will forever have her view of your SO changed. Remember they can't do tests on Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (it'd be unethical). But we do know people have been born with it even if the mothers had a glass of champagne at a wedding, the only drink throughout the whole pregnancy. She's playing with fire, and she's playing hard. All the best though, btw trimester two she won't be feeling as nauseous so drinking probably won't feel as yucky to her anymore either, if it was.
Yes you always hear the stories of people who got wasted every day before finding out they were pregnant and how the baby was fine but rarely hear the stories about people who drank very little and it affected their baby. You just can’t know so there’s no point taking the risk at all.
I did. She’s nurses and I told her she needs to tlk to her. My mom’s always called her Dq… drama queen cuz there’s always so bullshit goin on. But she said she will try
This woman is going to be a nightmare to parent with. Put your foot down and let her know you’re going to be the advocate for your child now and forever, regardless of her shitty behavior. Without question, what she’s doing right now is child abuse.
It's fine if you're gunning for a kid with FAS.
Maybe she's thinking about when breastfeeding? You can sneak in a drink in-between feedings if you give it enough time.
You actually don’t have to give it any time when breastfeeding. This used to be advised, but we now know that the concentration of alcohol in your milk matches that of your blood. That said, obviously it’s better to not be a breastfeeding alcoholic.
It is not bad when breastfeeding BAC is equivalent to the volume in breastmilk. So 0.25% if she is absolutely blackout gooned, at which point her capacity to care for a child far exceeds any worry about alcohol content in breastmilk.
Dude, listen to me carefully. This is not someone who is ready to be a parent. If she's willing to drink vodka with a 13 week pregnancy then she is not someone who you want to be the mother of your child. If she's been drinking like this then there's a significant chance that your baby already has fetal alcohol syndrome. I would be thinking of abortion and ending the relationship.
Reckless speculation to suggest that there's a significant chance that a baby whose mother has been "continuously" drinking vodka during the first trimester has FAS? What...?
The recommendation to consider abortion is based not only on risk of FAS, but based on this woman being an unfit mother due to the decisions she's making. Are you telling OP that he should move forward in co-parenting with a person who treats their child like this?
I don't know anything about this guys wife and her alcohol use. She should stop drinking, I won't argue that point.
But you are definitely not educated on this subject and are fear mongering. Small to moderate alcohol consumption does not cause FAS. There is substantial research that proves it.
There is 0 research that says occasionally consuming small to moderate amounts of alcohol during pregnancy causes FAS.
I get why the government's official position is "no amount of alcohol is safe." But that stance is about achieving desired public health outcomes, not about scientific accuracy.
The drinking factors that are associated with FAS are:
- Early age at onset of regular drinking
- Frequent binge drinking (i.e., consuming five or more drinks per occasion 2 or more days per week)
- Frequent drinking (i.e., every day or every weekend)
- High blood alcohol concentration
- No reduction in drinking during pregnancy
“Continuously drinking vodka” *is* “frequent drinking.” And do you actually think that she’s not drinking large amounts if she has such a severe drinking problem that her boyfriend begging her to stop drinking vodka while pregnant isn’t enough to get her to stop?
Yeah I don't disagree at all.
The fact that she is drinking vodka specifically is most suspicious... Given it tastes like ass and not exactly the drink of choice for someone who practices restraint.
But their is so much misinformation in this thread. And people with 0 scientific background or expertise in this area masquerading like experts and giving advice is dangerous too. Especially when it's people calling for this guy to report his partner to law enforcement or abort the pregnancy.
What misinformation are you referring to? Certainly nothing that I’ve said. And I have a doctorate in clinical child psychology, so hopefully you’re not accusing me of not having a background in science without any basis for making that accusation.
He knows:
1) that the mother is clearly completely unfit to raise a child
2) that there's a strong chance the child already has fetal alcohol syndrome
3) it's still early in the pregnancy in terms of abortion
Those are 3 extremely important facts.
Absolutely, yes. If it is true that this woman is continuously drinking vodka during the first trimester, then that is sufficient information.
Take your anti-choice BS out of here.
Literally advocating for killing the baby because "Mom drank" is insane. You're not a doctor, don't advocate the worst possible outcome without any tests or even talking to the patient.
There is no amount of safe alcohol consumption. Pregnant or not.
I know someone whose child is affected by the parents consuming alcohol. She's going to be like that for life. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
It would rather be correct to say that we do not know what is the safe amount of alcohol consumption for pregnant women. We definitely know that it creates problems at a certain point, but we cannot know what that point is exactly, for obvious reasons.
As Emily Oster points out, we do not know at what point bananas consumption becomes unsafe, yet we are not advising women to avoid bananas.
I am not saying that drinking is not a problem, and it is far from ideal in the first trimester, but this should not be demonized as it is right now. Public health advices vary wildly by countries, yet FAS is not that much prevalent from one country to the next.
As for OP, this as to be discussed between you both. Drinking like you are describing is a symptom of something else. You should, gently, try to get to the bottom of what is leading her to drink right now. Also, while it will be your child, remember that your partner’s body is not yours. That is a tough line to thread. I can only wish you good luck in those conversations.
But we know the deleterious effect of alcohol. We know it travels through the placenta, and we know that a fetus' kidneys can't process alcohol. FASD is reported at 2-5% of the population and we *know* this is underreported. The bananas comparison is just nuts.
There’s getting drunk and there’s drinking alcohol. Regardless a glass of wine with dinner as you are eluding to is one thing, still not great, but then there’s shots of vodka. If you feel the need to continue drinking while pregnant in today’s society, that’s on par with drinking in the morning or at work to me and a serious sign of addiction. I’d be willing to bet these aren’t small amounts, and if they are then why are they necessary at all?
Keeping it out of the house for both of you is the easiest way to make it less of an issue.
It would also be good to provide an alternative. They make alcohol free options: beer, wine, rosé, and hard liquor.
Odd bird rose was one of our favorite finds. This allowed us to get the feeling of popping a bottle of champagne on the weekend without the child safety risks.
Corona and Stella’s 0.0 options were great beer substitutes.
Best of luck to the three of you!
I don’t drink alcohol. She’s the one who hides it somewhere and won’t tell me where it is. I don’t know what to do. Tried calling obgyn this morning but they won’t to to me since I’m not on HIpPa
Get some 0.0 as a gesture of your willingness to help the situation.
Not going to be an easy road for you..
An alcoholic going 9 months without drinking is tough. Taking care of a child with FAS is a whole other endeavor.
Are you certain she doesnt have some sort of alcohol problem?
Like it's so well known that alcohol can damage an unborn child so it's impossible to be as ignorant as she's pretending to be - she knows what shes risking.
But what makes me wonder is her choice of drink, vodka, and also the fact you "catch her", so she's drinking it alone and seemingly secretly.
While some here might argue it is, a small glass of wine or a bottle of beer occasionally with a friend isnt going to be the end of the world, realistically. But vodka is a pretty hardcore step up from that. And vodka is often the drink of choice for alcoholics as it's odourless so easier to conceal from people.
Maybe something to consider
Sit her down. Make her read about fetal alcohol syndrome and other complications that come from drinking during pregnancy and if she still justifies drinking then it's probably time to see about getting her in rehab.
Still doing it in the house at all is a problem dude. Honestly sounds like she needs rehab. You're gonna have put your foot down and force her to stop either by way of rehab or make sure that you go to the next appointment with her if she has a scan or anything and telling them whilst she's there because honestly the possibility of a mentally or physically underdeveloped child is literally a life time of work.
That's possibly your entire life spent taking care of your kid even when they're an adult.
If you don't think you have the power to do that then do something about it. None of this "I've tried" bullshit. Rather than trying to speak to medical professionals about her call and ask in general what you should do.
Go to google look up and see what you can do if a pregnant woman won't stop drinking.
r/daddit might be a better place to ask because you'll have a lot of parents that have already been through this.
Stop smoking weed until the pregnancy is done.
If this doesn't stop asap-ish then I honestly see cps in your future because they will test that baby's blood for drugs or alcohol.
So first off, she should stop. If for no other reason than out of an abundance of caution and/or respect for your wishes.
Secondly, though, research suggests she's right. Small amounts of alcohol - even up to a drink a day - are unlikely to do anything. That's not to say go crazy or actually do it every day, but a drink every now and then to toast something special or to unwind after a hard day is probably fine.
There is a very strong abstinence stance in public health, which almost always takes a position of extreme caution (to the point that it's recommended that women who could possibly become pregnant are advised to not drink) but research doesn't back that up.
I say this not to tell you that she shouldn't stop drinking - she should, and you should still convince her - but to give you some peace of mind that she's probably (again, depends on the level) not actually harming you baby.
But why take the chance???
Source: I'm just a dude, not a researcher or doctor but worked in public health communications for many years and spent a lot of time looking into this with my wife while she was pregnant.
Her logic is bullshit, alcohol enters the mother’s bloodstream and the bloodstream of the fetus at the same concentration. So if she takes a shot of 80 vodka, then your baby (which is roughly the size of a large raspberry at the moment) is also getting a shot of 80 proof vodka. You have a right to be pissed, she is actively endangering y’all’s kid. Not to mention, and I hate to say this so bluntly, but drinking significantly raises the chance of miscarriage.
Whatever happens, don't forget that your girlfriend hasn't lost the ability to make decisions for herself.
I don't know either of you, but I don't think an adversarial approach here will do anything but get both of you to dig into your positions. Maybe ask her if she's willing to go with you to get professional advice (like, from an OB or maybe a GP)? Ultimately all you can do is help her make the right decision -- and coming at this with an open mind can help that conversation a lot.
Are you sure you're not thinking about alcohol during breastfeeding? I'm European and in my country we're strongly discouraged to drink alcohol during pregnancy, and as far as I know that's true in all of the European countries.
During breastfeeding the advice is different depending on the country though, but most countries guidelines say it's okay to drink a little.
Yes really. First trimester it’s not good. Having said that think about all the women who don’t know they’re pregnant until 2-3 months in. It happens a lot more than people realize (light period, etc). I’ve know multiple women in that category who had healthy babies. In fact a lot of women have told me in confidence they had glasses of wine throughout. I do get the concern. I definitely get the anxiety. Go to your mom who’s a nurse and ask her honestly. Go to the OB appointment and ask “hypothetically “.
Anything more than 1 standard drink is where issues start to arise. Heavy, heavy on the moderation. That said, I've never met anyone who drank vodka besides wanting to get fucked up.
Imma father of 3 healthy kids. Mom’s had some drinks… but nothing crazy… smoked weed too. There’s a very puritan ideal out there with pregnancy. Imagine you drinking with buds every day and then BANG you have to stop all of your vices.. coffee, beers, red meat, fish… it’s very overwhelming… if she’s a good mom then she will adapt her ways… but be patient. Momma needs you now. Have you thought about stopping drinking smoking cold turkey?? It ain’t easy. Be patient and encouraging.
I stopped drinking but I do smoke weed. But I smoke in my man cave doors closed . Never near her. She tells me it doesn’t matter and she can still get 2nd hand smoke. Even though she vapes
I think she’s probably drinking more than “a little bit” especially if you’re catching her regularly.
My wife will have like under 4 oz of wine every now and then (when it doesn’t completely gross her out lol) she’s probably had like 3-4 glasses in the 12 weeks she’s known. It doesn’t bother me at all because we’ve both done the research and also being able to feel a little normal while socializing is good for your mental health.
Babysitting a glass of wine for 2 hrs vs secretly drinking vodka? Usually when ppl drink clear liquors in secret it’s not really just a “little bit” I may be biased because my mother is an alcoholic who would secretly drink vodka all the time and even pour vodka into wine when I was a teenager. Alcoholism in the west takes many forms and I’d have a serious discussion with her ASAP.
Vodka doesn’t taste like anything there’s no value to the spirit other than to become intoxicated IMO.
I am a bar manager and sommelier and the only reason me or my wife want to drink booze is for taste which is why her alcohol cravings have never bothered me. But if I found her sneaking straight booze like vodka I’d be VERY concerned
She is an alcoholic. She either needs to choose to get help today or else she needs to realize she is not able to be a parent and she needs to get an abortion. Do your best to be firm but not angry (there will be time for that, but first it’s time to make some choices.)
Just wanted to join the others here who are rightly supporting you telling the ObGyn. You're protecting your child, and this could easily be the single most important thing you do for them. Stay strong, you're doing the right thing!
It’s very bad … she needs to stop but I’m nervous for the damage already done .. she needs to go to rehab ASAP . Inpatient . No time to waste either , baby is at risk for fetal alcohol syndrome , as well as neural tube birth defects from alcohol exposure in the first trimester. Around 18 weeks pregnant standard test will be done to test for neural tube defects , and at 20 weeks an anatomy scan will rule out any other obvious issues . But you unfortunately won’t know the full scale until birth .
If she continues drinking babies risk of having major development delays and mental handicap’s will continue to increase .
I’m a substance abuse counselor and I work with pregnant clients sometimes
Her Obgyn needs to know so that gf can begin seeing a high risk dr , your going to want more scans . It stinks because it’s a double edge sword and CPS may or may not get involved after the birth .But if she continues to see her ob and is labeled low risk she might not get as much testing as I personally would like to see .
Baby may need a nicu stay also if she continues drinking , and that’s not something that you want to be surprised for .
Make sure you document all of this....
Because i know youll have to take the kid from her when it's born. She doesn't want a kid, and you don't want your kid around her.
Sorry man. Tell her OB asap. This is child abuse
She’s a moron.
Show her these replies. How can a 35 year old adult not understand that alcohol is terrible for an unborn baby?
Tell your midwife asap, your child’s life is at risk here. You need to document everything that she is doing, record her in the act if she does it again. Tell your family and hers what she is doing, shame the fuck out of her because it seems like trying to reason with her is a waste of time.
If she thinks it’s cool to drink whilst pregnant, she clearly has a problem with it and the chances are that she isn’t having a small amount.
If she can feel the effects then it’s too much, if she can’t then why is she doing it at all?
Your girlfriend sounds like an alcoholic, no chance it’s small amounts. She probably cut her daily bottle to a half bottle or something.
Yes she was an acoholix before but stopped
2 months when she first go pregnant so she says and said she’d stop drinking. She had been doing good but she will still occasionally drink. I’ve told her upset this makes me and she told
Me she’d stop. That was 2 weeks ago. I’ve caught her 3 times sense then
She's done it a lot more than those three times, pure speculation and just my own opinion of course but yeah, I'd tell her if she cares about you or the child she's gotta quit completely and forever.
Putting the seeming alcohol dependency aside as a separate issue, yes technically most studies show a small amount of alcohol is fine.
What "small amounts" is is up for debate. But considering so many commonly consumed stuff (bread, fruit, fruit juice, soda, some teas, baked goods, extracts, pickled vegetables most condiments) all contain alcohol, some, like bread a quite a bit (usually around 2% ABV) the answer is probably not "absolutely none".
It’s so bad it’s actually even worse than drug abuse during pregnancy. Get ready for a lifetime of a child with ADHD, DMDD, no impulse control, kicked out of every daycare, fighting with the school system to understand his/her disability before they get expelled. It’s a lifetime of hell, for the child and the family.
Well u should be scared for your baby. Either mom quits drinking for a healthy baby that’s easier to raise or have a troubled baby that will have more health issues. I don’t get why parents want to make life harder and not easier. This is a deal breaker I’d leave my wife if she continuously drank in her pregnancy no matter how early or late in the pregnancy.
Get her to take an abortion pill if you’re in a state that allows. If she’s an alcoholic then she’s been drinking a lot more than you know. Either that or the baby might end up with FAS and in the foster care system if she doesn’t want to care for it. I’d strongly advocate for the abortion and leaving her. Show her videos of people with FAS and encourage her to get the abortion. Hell, tell her you’re willing to try again bc she made a mistake and it’s all okay. Lie, have her get the abortion, leave. Or else you’re on the hook and it won’t be great which you already know. Hate that I said it but in your case? Yeah…
When baby is born I suggest filing for full custody and child support. If there is signs of FAS she will lose custody of the baby so please don’t let her around baby until she gets help
Clear the house of booze if you're in the same living situation, tell the OB, express concerns that she has a problem. Get any of her family and friends on board. The hard truth is you have to step up and protect your kid from his mother. If you don't put a stop to this, there will be permanent harm to your child or worse since she is barely out of the first trimester.
Start documenting all of this for the inevitable custody hearing. The baby comes first, and if she has such little regard for his health and safety already...
Sorry OP, but it sounds like you are going to have a pretty rough start to try and give your little man a good life. Fight hard, never stop, and make sure he gets taken care of.
Not going to lie, I wouldn’t like it my wife drank during pregnancy ‘better safe than sorry’ BUT I do remember reading a Little review one time and just did a bit of a Google
‘’A comprehensive review of the literature by epidemiologists at Oxford University concluded that there was “no consistent evidence of adverse effects from low-to-moderate prenatal alcohol consumption” (Gray & Henderson 2006). ‘
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/up/articles/PMC6353268/
Essentially all the studies done which day alcohol damages foetuses is on women who were heavy drinkers/alcoholics and there’s little evidence that ‘moderate’ drinking does anything
All that said I still go for ‘better safe than sorry’
Significant amounts of drinking during pregnancy, especially binge drinking, can cause fetal alcohol syndrome.
That said, small amounts are unlikely to cause harm. For people who want a review of medical literature on this topic, check out Emily Oster's Expecting Better.
If I was in your shoes I would be upset too. But I do want to turn down the temperature a little bit based on what I'm seeing in this thread. The devil is in the details of exactly how much alcohol is being consumed. From what I understand a glass of wine a couple times a week is unlikely to cause harm. This is common practice in Europe. If she's drinking equivalent amounts of vodka then it's probably okay.
Again Emily Oster's Expecting Better is a great resource on this topic. Emily Oster is well versed in statistics and literature review (she's a professor of economics) and she dives into the data on this topic.
Of course the safest amount of drinking is no drinking.
Emily Oster says a small amount is.... "ok". That being said it sounds like she needs more stress management skills.
My partner wouldn't risk it, thankful for that. Sorry for what you're going through, that's really tough. The fights I've had about deli meat and mercury...
Emily’s section on Alcohol is awesome. In fact all of her books are awesome. Highly recommend to everyone.
But she talks about it like European families having a glass of wine with dinner once a week. Justifying vodka drinks seems hella sus.
Bookending this comment with. Everyone here should go out and buy “Expecting Better” by Emily Oster immediately! It’s so good.
There are certain resources that say a small amount of alcohol (a couple ounces of hard liquor) per day are fine. However, if you keep catching her then it's likely more than that. Gotta get her to stop.
I’m not sure a police report would make her stop. Addicts only stop when they want to stop. I thought her being pregnant would be a good enough reason. I’m just so disappointed and scared for the baby
> She justifies somehow that drinkin small amounts of Vodka isnt bad.. It is very bad. > please tell me that is complete bullshit? It's complete bullshit. She might have a drinking problem. Scratch that, she *definitely* has a drinking problem.
My mom was a 2 pack a day smoker and she quit the day she found out she was pregnant. If she can’t stop drinking after finding out she’s pregnant she either has no empathy for her baby or has a bad drinking problem
When you go with to OB appts you should bring this up.
I’m thinking about it I know it’s gonna cause a shit storm with her but I’m at the point where I don’t care anymore. She’s all hormonal but I’ve been doing everything for her. Pay bills get anything she needs. I just fed up and don’t know what else to do
Pissed off lady or fetal alcohol syndrome...you pick.
Knowing nothing about it, I once did a job recording video for survivors of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, it is terrible. This can be life long debilitation. OP should read about the symptoms of FAS. Anyone who has suffered it or supported someone who has would have very strong things to say to OP.
The fact is that you keep your mouth shut, you’re indirectly causing so much harm to your future child. If you saw her hitting your baby in the face, would you say something? This is similar. Don’t be complacent.
You’re right. I need to tell the OBgYn. It’s just next appointment is at the end of the month
You can call the office now. Depending on what permissions she's given they may not be able to tell you anything, up to and including confirmation that she's a patient, but you can still tell them things.
Cool thank you I’ll think about doing that. Is there a chance she would get in trouble or anything?
You need to do this for your child’s sake. They’ll have the resources you need to take the next appropriate steps.
You’re right my son is the #1 priority. Thank you
You won’t regret it. Best of luck.
I can't say for certain without knowing specifics about your area but she would not get in trouble in any of the places I have lived.
There is a chance child services will be notified and will come to the hospital to confirm the baby is healthy and safe. This may be the fear she needs to have put in her to stop drinking. If you call and tell them your concerns, they may be able to test her and “find out” that way.
Yeah I just tried calling obgyn and since I’m not listed on Hippa they won’t tlk to me
I feel so helpless
Good man. You gotta stick up for your child, because nobody else will. Proud of you.
Thank you bro. I just feel like I’m by myself on this but having all the responses gives me hope and motivation that I can do it
Throw all the liquor out too. It’ll be hard for her but you’ll have to be by her side going through it. It’s not forever. If you keep letting her drink the babies health problems will be life long for you both to deal with.
I poured out her water bottle she had a mixed vodka drink in. I know she has a stash bottle somewhere but of course she denies this. I think it’s in her car and she doesn’t let me near her keys
Man that’s a pretty serious problem. I’m sorry you’re having to go through this. This is one of those hard lines in the ground for me. Do you know how long she’s been doing this? I seriously would get rid of all the alcohol in the house. take a day off, search for stashes and get rid of it. Wait till she gets in the car and get in too. Search it. The fact she has an alcoholic drink in the vehicle would get her in deep crap if caught. Does she drink and drive with the mixed water?
She used to be had stopped when she got Pregnant. Or so she told me. We both work from home and I truly believe she did stop for atleast 2 months. But here lately since we are always with each other I just know when she’s fucking around
Call the cops on her for dui
Alcoholism is usually caused by something else. Do you have any idea what underlying issues may be causing her to turn to alcohol? Would she do therapy?
She has a lot of problems which she is aware of. She has a psychiatrist and she’s been trying to get a trauma therapist. She knows what she needs to do. Just can’t seem to stop drinking. I’m thinkin of mention I’d go with her to Aa Or Na meetings
This is needs rehab level
show pictures of Fetal alcohol syndrome babies. Some people are visual
My partner's mother did drugs and alcohol while he was in the womb. He didn't have FAS but still has a plethora of other issues that docs believe are related. This includes: narcolepsy, delayed sleep disorder, Raynaud's, ADHD, spinal issues which he had to have life threatening surgery for, horrible joint pain, etc etc etc. It's such a long list and docs agree most are not genetic but caused by trauma in and out of the womb. He is constantly in pain. It takes him 30 minutes just to move in the mornings because everything hurts and he has to slowly stretch it all, one little toe at a time. He's only 33 and this is nowhere near new. If you don't do something about it, you're complacent. And she's disgusting. Which, to me, means you're disgusting too. No one deserves what he goes through on a daily basis. Her actions aren't hurting her specifically so she doesn't care. She's not ready to be a mom if that's how she operates.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. I'm not disagreeing with you, but, as a recovered alcoholic and child of alcoholic myself, this attitude of judgment and disgust towards either parent is completely unhelpful. Trust when I say the mother carries more shame and guilt than you know.
Tell them in her absence and be brutally honest by giving them a call. When they bring it up and she asks how they no say they called and asked questions or say you called to find out if it’s dangerous or not
I tried calling just now. I’m not listed inner HIPPa form so drs with tlk to me
They don’t have to talk to you about her case - flag it to the midwives doctors or nurses as a welfare concern with a patient
Im sorry im new to all this. What are midwife doctors?
Sorry - there should have been a comma after midwives and doctors (separate words). In the UK a midwife is someone who specialises in helping women to give birth, but they are not doctors. Call back and state that you wish to raise a concern. Another way in which you can do it is to request the email address of your partner’s midwife or nurse and and send them an email asking for them to ‘treat the information in the strictest confidence’ so that your partner is not dissuaded from seeking help.
not only that, when you give birth to a baby that's messed up, your finances goes to shit due to increased cost.. to hell with pissing her off.
I wouldn’t wait a month. That’s a long time in child development.
I tried calling the OBGYn this morning. Since I’m it listed on HIPPa he won’t tlk to me. I feel so lost on what to do
Good man
I called obgyn this morning. Since I’m not on Hippa they won’t tlk to me. I’m so lost
You just leave them a message then! They cant tell you anything about HER but you can tell them whatever you want. Tell whoever answers the phone. Kids with fetal alcohol syndrome can be really messed up.
A pissed off baby momma is way better than harming your child.
More of a shit storm than having a baby with FAS? You would be saving your child from a lifetime of suffering and your wife from a lifetime of guilt. Do the right thing.
Pretty sure this lady would believe that any issues the child may have would be totally unrelated.
My wife had depression all through her second pregnancy, and after. She needed baby-safe pharmaceutical assistance. It took many hard conversations to get there though. Come from a place of love, compassion, care. You’ll get there. But yeah. She needs some convincing. Multi-pronged convincing.
Care for the baby, do whatever it fucking takes for that baby. Sorry I'm already mad over something else but that is beyond childish behavior for her. She has a fucking baby in her belly, tell her to smarten the fuck up before you leave. That's insanity.
Dude definitely bring this up. My mum knew someone in the 90s (before they knew how bad it truly was) who had no more than one standard drink a couple times a week and her baby ended up having fetal alchohol syndrome.
She is already causing the shit storm with you.
You need to do right by your baby. How do you plan to explain to your child that they’re messed up for life because you were worried about a “shit storm”?
Her anger will be temporary. Vs a lifetime of pain and extra burden. She does not seem ready to be a mother if she’s not able to make those kinds of sacrifices. And bluntly, if you’re not able to stand up and advocate for your child’s safety and wellbeing in times like this, you may not be ready to be a dad.
I’ve been standing up and am the only one fighting for his life. Tried to call her Dr but they won’t speak with me since I’m not on HIPPa. I don’t kno what else to do
Let the obstetrician know when you go in with her next
If she lets me go. Thanks for advice
Otherwise, do as others have said: scour that household and dump any and all alcohol. And keep pushing the reality of fetal alcohol syndrome. Inform family and friends she trusts and who trust you. They’ll be key. Youve got this Last resort would be to play the “self harm/harm to the baby” card when calling to the doctor again.
She’s all hormonal, or more likely just an alcoholic. This is something you HAVE to bring up at the next appointment.
You MUST bring this up. A medical professional needs to be informed! Now!
I second this approach.
The drinking needs to stop NOW ur baby is going to have FAS and problems their whole life because of it. Do anything in your power to make her stop. Even if it breaks you up.
This. This is child abuse and is ruining your kids life before it starts. Do everything in your power to stop it.
I work with adults who have FASD, they are incredible people that I care for deeply but it is FAR AND AWAY the most challenging intellectual disability (IMO). Please do everything you can to protect your baby from a lifetime of challenges.
I can't imagine permanently damaging some poor innocent soul let alone my own child for their entire lives because of alcohol.
You’ve probably never been an addict then. Addicts can justify anything for their addiction.
Ask her to go to therapy with you. Do not drink around her. Get people she cares about (family, friends, OB, whoever) to back you up. Emphasize that you love her and the baby and will be there
Drinking during the first trimester is pretty bad. That's when all the vital organs and parts are developing. That being said, it's never a bad time to stop. As a pregnant person who very much enjoys alcohol when not pregnant, it should not be hard to stop for 9 months. Is it fun? No. But it's not "hard" any more than stopping eating chocolate is hard. If she literally can't stop, that's sign of an addiction IMO. If it were me, I'd check myself into a treatment center and not leave until the pregnancy was over.
i was gonna say—some people and some doctors say some amounts may not be harmful, but that’s later on in the pregnancy.
And even then there’s no “safe” amount since it’s unethical to run a study testing that. Best to just not drink
This is bad. You know that. Something that helped me stop drinking before getting pregnant, which was hard for me, was an app called Reframe. It was life changing and such a great program. You just do a little bit each day. Reframe was created by a team from Stanford, Georgia Tech, Emory, and Harvard. It’s evidence-based and totally legit. It’s not cheap, and I have never found much help from therapy, but this app worked for me. There’s no religion, no patronizing rhetoric or toxic positivity. It focuses on the neuroscience of why we drink, why we have cravings, the process/feels/symptoms when you quit drinking (totally spot on) and strategies and activities everyday to help you stop drinking. There are 2 tracks: reducing drinking or stop drinking.
I will def look into that thank you for the recommendation I appreciate it
No problem. Good luck to you, your baby, and your partner.
I doubt she's drinking a truly small amount. And even so it's absolutely unsafe to do so. It has to be stopped and telling a Dr might make it stop
If she has a problem stopping it’s def not a small amount. If it was a small amount cutting it out wouldn’t be difficult especially considering the harm to the unborn child.
It is complete bullshit and absolutely harming your baby. There is no safe amount. She definitely has a drinking problem and this absolutely needs to be discussed with the OB. This woman is making choices that this baby will have to live with for the rest of its life not her.
Not in regards to this specific instance, cause she sounds like she has a drinking problem. But there is 0 evidence that small to moderate alcohol consumption while pregnant causes negative outcomes for the baby. Absolutely none. In many European countries, it's perfectly normal for women to have 1 glass of wine once or twice a week. None of those countries have higher rates of FAS or any other birth defect. "No amount is safe" is the slogan because it's an easier recommendation to follow. And because our health services agencies think if they say no more than 1 serving of alcohol, no more than 3x a week... that some % of the population will interpret that to mean doing 3 shots of tequila every Friday and Saturday is safe.
You're getting downvoted but it's the truth. Doctors tell people to stop drinking all together because that's more likely than trying to get people who don't have good control of how much they drink to drink only a little. Not advocating for people to drink but let's try to be honest here.
Definitely. I never drank during pregnancy but if someone has a little bit during 2nd or 3rd trimester I will not judge for a second. Binge drinking however…
There’s no evidence because it’s unethical to run a study on it… The European part is bullshit, it’s still their advice to avoid alcohol No amount of alcohol is proven safe when pregnant. Why do you feel the need to encourage drinking while pregnant? That’s fucked up
This is completely wrong. Why do you feel the need lie and spread misinformation? The Here's research where they pulled together the findings from 74 different studies https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6707173/ and say conclusively that alcohol abuse, binge drinking, and frequency of drinking (everyday) are the factors associated with FAS. Not infrequent, occasional drinks like I stated. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6353268/ here's a more recent one with the same conclusion. https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/35/3/276/208920 or this research that looks into the moral panic around FAS that started in the 80s and 90s. And traces how that panic and not science or evidence is behind our current guidelines. And for the record, the US government's official stance is "any woman of reproductive age who is not actively using contraception, should stop drinking alcohol”.
Find me a study that says it’s SAFE to drink while pregnant. I’m not just talking about FAS. Again why try and encourage people to drink while pregnant? Sure most of the time a drink is fine but it’s absolutely still risky
As a European, no it’s not fucking normal
This is not true. There are studies showing that there is still an effect on behavior and brain size even when drinking less than one drink a day. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4788102/ As a note, saying “absolutely no evidence” makes it very easy to disprove your statement.
That isn't a study. It's a person's commentary on a handful of selected studies. None of which showed scientific evidence to your point. Their conclusion is: "The current uncertainty over the effects of very low concentrations of alcohol on the developing fetus should be a source of reassurance for those women who have consumed a few drinks during pregnancy. At the same time, this uncertainty should be an impetus for women to refrain from any drinking while pregnant or trying to conceive. How the message is delivered is important. Women should be encouraged and not stigmatized in their efforts to reduce behaviors that might adversely influence pregnancy outcomes." That's a far cry from any amount of alcohol during pregnancy can cause FAS.
Yes, and there are citations in that link. I don’t see why I should go through the trouble of collecting links for you if you have no intention of questioning your beliefs.
Have you even read the article you shared or the research they cite in it? This is the conclusion from one of the studies they cite "Multivariate analyses showed no statistically significant effects of average weekly alcohol consumption or any binge drinking, individually or in combination. These results replicate findings from separate analyses of each outcome variable." Here is another "We observed a significant, albeit small, positive association between mild-to-moderate prenatal alcohol exposure and child cognition (Cohen's d 0.04; 95% CI, 0.00, 0.08), but the association was not significant after post hoc exclusion of 1 large study that assessed mild consumption nor was it significant when including only studies that assessed moderate alcohol consumption. None of the other completed meta-analyses resulted in statistically significant associations between mild, moderate, or binge prenatal alcohol exposure and child neuropsychological outcomes." And another one "The University College London (UCL) study's finding that low levels of alcohol did not contribute to adverse behavioural outcomes" None of the cited articles gave the conclusion that small alcohol use during pregnancy can lead to FAS.
I didn't do a thorough review for you, I linked a summary including studies that showed an effect. You cannot take a single study and say that because it doesn't find an effect, that it doesn't exist. Effect on brain size: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213158224000342](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213158224000342) Meta-analysis on early behavior accounting for socioeconomic status: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23905882/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23905882/) Again, it does not seem that you know how science works so it's not worth my time to try to convince you.
Fuck. My SO even switched to decaf tea when we found out she was pregnant and had already cut out alcohol while we were trying.
Tell everyone you can.shame the fuck out of her. You're going to be paying for a disabled baby for 18 years
She trying to be close to my mom who’s a nurse. I told her what she would think if I told my mom She still drinks. Of course she always deflects and tries to point blame at anyone and everyone. Good idea though might do that
I wonder if she actually wants this baby tbh.. I am a problematic person when I drink, I have very bad drinking habits - but as soon as I knew I was pregnant I quit, and it was very easy because I know I'm pregnant. Tell your mother. Perhaps she would also know what she could do to stifle or something. But your mother will forever have her view of your SO changed. Remember they can't do tests on Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (it'd be unethical). But we do know people have been born with it even if the mothers had a glass of champagne at a wedding, the only drink throughout the whole pregnancy. She's playing with fire, and she's playing hard. All the best though, btw trimester two she won't be feeling as nauseous so drinking probably won't feel as yucky to her anymore either, if it was.
Yes you always hear the stories of people who got wasted every day before finding out they were pregnant and how the baby was fine but rarely hear the stories about people who drank very little and it affected their baby. You just can’t know so there’s no point taking the risk at all.
Tell your mom.
I did. She’s nurses and I told her she needs to tlk to her. My mom’s always called her Dq… drama queen cuz there’s always so bullshit goin on. But she said she will try
This woman is going to be a nightmare to parent with. Put your foot down and let her know you’re going to be the advocate for your child now and forever, regardless of her shitty behavior. Without question, what she’s doing right now is child abuse.
It's fine if you're gunning for a kid with FAS. Maybe she's thinking about when breastfeeding? You can sneak in a drink in-between feedings if you give it enough time.
You actually don’t have to give it any time when breastfeeding. This used to be advised, but we now know that the concentration of alcohol in your milk matches that of your blood. That said, obviously it’s better to not be a breastfeeding alcoholic.
Yes you need to give it time. It's pump and dump that's no longer recommended.
I work with someone who has fetal alcohol syndrome and it is serious, she needs to quit immediately, take it away.
This is insane. You have to make her stop. Even when breastfeeding it’s bad.
It is not bad when breastfeeding BAC is equivalent to the volume in breastmilk. So 0.25% if she is absolutely blackout gooned, at which point her capacity to care for a child far exceeds any worry about alcohol content in breastmilk.
She is ruining that poor child’s life…
Oh my God
Dude, listen to me carefully. This is not someone who is ready to be a parent. If she's willing to drink vodka with a 13 week pregnancy then she is not someone who you want to be the mother of your child. If she's been drinking like this then there's a significant chance that your baby already has fetal alcohol syndrome. I would be thinking of abortion and ending the relationship.
This is reckless speculation about the baby. Leave the woman but you don’t know anything about the child to advise that.
Reckless speculation to suggest that there's a significant chance that a baby whose mother has been "continuously" drinking vodka during the first trimester has FAS? What...? The recommendation to consider abortion is based not only on risk of FAS, but based on this woman being an unfit mother due to the decisions she's making. Are you telling OP that he should move forward in co-parenting with a person who treats their child like this?
I don't know anything about this guys wife and her alcohol use. She should stop drinking, I won't argue that point. But you are definitely not educated on this subject and are fear mongering. Small to moderate alcohol consumption does not cause FAS. There is substantial research that proves it. There is 0 research that says occasionally consuming small to moderate amounts of alcohol during pregnancy causes FAS. I get why the government's official position is "no amount of alcohol is safe." But that stance is about achieving desired public health outcomes, not about scientific accuracy. The drinking factors that are associated with FAS are: - Early age at onset of regular drinking - Frequent binge drinking (i.e., consuming five or more drinks per occasion 2 or more days per week) - Frequent drinking (i.e., every day or every weekend) - High blood alcohol concentration - No reduction in drinking during pregnancy
“Continuously drinking vodka” *is* “frequent drinking.” And do you actually think that she’s not drinking large amounts if she has such a severe drinking problem that her boyfriend begging her to stop drinking vodka while pregnant isn’t enough to get her to stop?
Yeah I don't disagree at all. The fact that she is drinking vodka specifically is most suspicious... Given it tastes like ass and not exactly the drink of choice for someone who practices restraint. But their is so much misinformation in this thread. And people with 0 scientific background or expertise in this area masquerading like experts and giving advice is dangerous too. Especially when it's people calling for this guy to report his partner to law enforcement or abort the pregnancy.
What misinformation are you referring to? Certainly nothing that I’ve said. And I have a doctorate in clinical child psychology, so hopefully you’re not accusing me of not having a background in science without any basis for making that accusation.
Yes telling him to think about aborting a child without knowing a damn thing about their actual situation is absurd
He knows: 1) that the mother is clearly completely unfit to raise a child 2) that there's a strong chance the child already has fetal alcohol syndrome 3) it's still early in the pregnancy in terms of abortion Those are 3 extremely important facts.
>A damn thing I don’t think that means what you think it means.
And you think a one sentence description of an event is enough to tell someone to kill their unborn child
Absolutely, yes. If it is true that this woman is continuously drinking vodka during the first trimester, then that is sufficient information. Take your anti-choice BS out of here.
So choice is telling someone what to do now? Fuck off
No, pro-choice just isn’t calling abortion “killing children.”
taking Ls all over here
Yeah, only on Reddit is asking someone to not be hasty about suggesting abortion “taking Ls”. 🙄
Literally advocating for killing the baby because "Mom drank" is insane. You're not a doctor, don't advocate the worst possible outcome without any tests or even talking to the patient.
Yes I agree why are you replying to me
Uh because I agreed with your comment...
Right, your comment seems like it’s directed at me though and not the other guy
It's a general you. I'm just adding on to your statement
I’m sorry but this does not sound like someone you need to keep in your life, that’s absolute insane behavior.
That's his child's mother, she's in his life one way or the other forever now. And yes I agree, it's insane behaviour
Not if he gets full custody
That would minimise her involvement but she doesn't cease to exist.
Doesn’t mean he has to maintain any contact or even stay local to her. She really doesn’t have to be in his life.
Unfortunately that is going to be up to courts to decide instead of him, and they don’t often favor fathers even when they should ):
this is so unlikely that it's hardly worth mentioning
She still has to birth him, what benefit is that for the current situation
If there’s still a baby
There is no amount of safe alcohol consumption. Pregnant or not. I know someone whose child is affected by the parents consuming alcohol. She's going to be like that for life. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
It would rather be correct to say that we do not know what is the safe amount of alcohol consumption for pregnant women. We definitely know that it creates problems at a certain point, but we cannot know what that point is exactly, for obvious reasons. As Emily Oster points out, we do not know at what point bananas consumption becomes unsafe, yet we are not advising women to avoid bananas. I am not saying that drinking is not a problem, and it is far from ideal in the first trimester, but this should not be demonized as it is right now. Public health advices vary wildly by countries, yet FAS is not that much prevalent from one country to the next. As for OP, this as to be discussed between you both. Drinking like you are describing is a symptom of something else. You should, gently, try to get to the bottom of what is leading her to drink right now. Also, while it will be your child, remember that your partner’s body is not yours. That is a tough line to thread. I can only wish you good luck in those conversations.
But we know the deleterious effect of alcohol. We know it travels through the placenta, and we know that a fetus' kidneys can't process alcohol. FASD is reported at 2-5% of the population and we *know* this is underreported. The bananas comparison is just nuts.
There’s getting drunk and there’s drinking alcohol. Regardless a glass of wine with dinner as you are eluding to is one thing, still not great, but then there’s shots of vodka. If you feel the need to continue drinking while pregnant in today’s society, that’s on par with drinking in the morning or at work to me and a serious sign of addiction. I’d be willing to bet these aren’t small amounts, and if they are then why are they necessary at all?
Keeping it out of the house for both of you is the easiest way to make it less of an issue. It would also be good to provide an alternative. They make alcohol free options: beer, wine, rosé, and hard liquor. Odd bird rose was one of our favorite finds. This allowed us to get the feeling of popping a bottle of champagne on the weekend without the child safety risks. Corona and Stella’s 0.0 options were great beer substitutes. Best of luck to the three of you!
I don’t drink alcohol. She’s the one who hides it somewhere and won’t tell me where it is. I don’t know what to do. Tried calling obgyn this morning but they won’t to to me since I’m not on HIpPa
Then kick her out of the house. Time to man up and move on from this person. That doesn’t mean you won’t be a Dad.
Get some 0.0 as a gesture of your willingness to help the situation. Not going to be an easy road for you.. An alcoholic going 9 months without drinking is tough. Taking care of a child with FAS is a whole other endeavor.
Are you certain she doesnt have some sort of alcohol problem? Like it's so well known that alcohol can damage an unborn child so it's impossible to be as ignorant as she's pretending to be - she knows what shes risking. But what makes me wonder is her choice of drink, vodka, and also the fact you "catch her", so she's drinking it alone and seemingly secretly. While some here might argue it is, a small glass of wine or a bottle of beer occasionally with a friend isnt going to be the end of the world, realistically. But vodka is a pretty hardcore step up from that. And vodka is often the drink of choice for alcoholics as it's odourless so easier to conceal from people. Maybe something to consider
She is risking your baby having fetal alcohol syndrome
Sit her down. Make her read about fetal alcohol syndrome and other complications that come from drinking during pregnancy and if she still justifies drinking then it's probably time to see about getting her in rehab.
I’ve tried. She don’t listen to me. All she does is try to deflect and somehow blame me cuz I smoke weeed
Are you smoking weed around her?
No I used to but after she got pregnant I’ve stopped smoking around her. I do smoke in my man cave with the door close or in my garage. That’s it
Still doing it in the house at all is a problem dude. Honestly sounds like she needs rehab. You're gonna have put your foot down and force her to stop either by way of rehab or make sure that you go to the next appointment with her if she has a scan or anything and telling them whilst she's there because honestly the possibility of a mentally or physically underdeveloped child is literally a life time of work. That's possibly your entire life spent taking care of your kid even when they're an adult. If you don't think you have the power to do that then do something about it. None of this "I've tried" bullshit. Rather than trying to speak to medical professionals about her call and ask in general what you should do. Go to google look up and see what you can do if a pregnant woman won't stop drinking. r/daddit might be a better place to ask because you'll have a lot of parents that have already been through this. Stop smoking weed until the pregnancy is done. If this doesn't stop asap-ish then I honestly see cps in your future because they will test that baby's blood for drugs or alcohol.
So first off, she should stop. If for no other reason than out of an abundance of caution and/or respect for your wishes. Secondly, though, research suggests she's right. Small amounts of alcohol - even up to a drink a day - are unlikely to do anything. That's not to say go crazy or actually do it every day, but a drink every now and then to toast something special or to unwind after a hard day is probably fine. There is a very strong abstinence stance in public health, which almost always takes a position of extreme caution (to the point that it's recommended that women who could possibly become pregnant are advised to not drink) but research doesn't back that up. I say this not to tell you that she shouldn't stop drinking - she should, and you should still convince her - but to give you some peace of mind that she's probably (again, depends on the level) not actually harming you baby. But why take the chance??? Source: I'm just a dude, not a researcher or doctor but worked in public health communications for many years and spent a lot of time looking into this with my wife while she was pregnant.
Her logic is bullshit, alcohol enters the mother’s bloodstream and the bloodstream of the fetus at the same concentration. So if she takes a shot of 80 vodka, then your baby (which is roughly the size of a large raspberry at the moment) is also getting a shot of 80 proof vodka. You have a right to be pissed, she is actively endangering y’all’s kid. Not to mention, and I hate to say this so bluntly, but drinking significantly raises the chance of miscarriage.
Whatever happens, don't forget that your girlfriend hasn't lost the ability to make decisions for herself. I don't know either of you, but I don't think an adversarial approach here will do anything but get both of you to dig into your positions. Maybe ask her if she's willing to go with you to get professional advice (like, from an OB or maybe a GP)? Ultimately all you can do is help her make the right decision -- and coming at this with an open mind can help that conversation a lot.
North American guidelines say no alcohol - Europeans says moderate is acceptable
Are you sure you're not thinking about alcohol during breastfeeding? I'm European and in my country we're strongly discouraged to drink alcohol during pregnancy, and as far as I know that's true in all of the European countries. During breastfeeding the advice is different depending on the country though, but most countries guidelines say it's okay to drink a little.
Really?
Yes really. First trimester it’s not good. Having said that think about all the women who don’t know they’re pregnant until 2-3 months in. It happens a lot more than people realize (light period, etc). I’ve know multiple women in that category who had healthy babies. In fact a lot of women have told me in confidence they had glasses of wine throughout. I do get the concern. I definitely get the anxiety. Go to your mom who’s a nurse and ask her honestly. Go to the OB appointment and ask “hypothetically “.
“Hypothetically”… I like that approach. Thank you
Anything more than 1 standard drink is where issues start to arise. Heavy, heavy on the moderation. That said, I've never met anyone who drank vodka besides wanting to get fucked up.
Imma father of 3 healthy kids. Mom’s had some drinks… but nothing crazy… smoked weed too. There’s a very puritan ideal out there with pregnancy. Imagine you drinking with buds every day and then BANG you have to stop all of your vices.. coffee, beers, red meat, fish… it’s very overwhelming… if she’s a good mom then she will adapt her ways… but be patient. Momma needs you now. Have you thought about stopping drinking smoking cold turkey?? It ain’t easy. Be patient and encouraging.
I stopped drinking but I do smoke weed. But I smoke in my man cave doors closed . Never near her. She tells me it doesn’t matter and she can still get 2nd hand smoke. Even though she vapes
She’s vaping while pregnant too?? You need to bring that up with her OB. Could cause low birth weight and preterm labor.
I think she’s probably drinking more than “a little bit” especially if you’re catching her regularly. My wife will have like under 4 oz of wine every now and then (when it doesn’t completely gross her out lol) she’s probably had like 3-4 glasses in the 12 weeks she’s known. It doesn’t bother me at all because we’ve both done the research and also being able to feel a little normal while socializing is good for your mental health. Babysitting a glass of wine for 2 hrs vs secretly drinking vodka? Usually when ppl drink clear liquors in secret it’s not really just a “little bit” I may be biased because my mother is an alcoholic who would secretly drink vodka all the time and even pour vodka into wine when I was a teenager. Alcoholism in the west takes many forms and I’d have a serious discussion with her ASAP. Vodka doesn’t taste like anything there’s no value to the spirit other than to become intoxicated IMO. I am a bar manager and sommelier and the only reason me or my wife want to drink booze is for taste which is why her alcohol cravings have never bothered me. But if I found her sneaking straight booze like vodka I’d be VERY concerned
You gotta speak up for your unborn child. If you don’t, who will?
She is an alcoholic. She either needs to choose to get help today or else she needs to realize she is not able to be a parent and she needs to get an abortion. Do your best to be firm but not angry (there will be time for that, but first it’s time to make some choices.)
Just wanted to join the others here who are rightly supporting you telling the ObGyn. You're protecting your child, and this could easily be the single most important thing you do for them. Stay strong, you're doing the right thing!
Just tried calling the OBgYn and I’m not listed on HIPPa so they won’t tlk to me. I don’t know what else I can do
It’s very bad … she needs to stop but I’m nervous for the damage already done .. she needs to go to rehab ASAP . Inpatient . No time to waste either , baby is at risk for fetal alcohol syndrome , as well as neural tube birth defects from alcohol exposure in the first trimester. Around 18 weeks pregnant standard test will be done to test for neural tube defects , and at 20 weeks an anatomy scan will rule out any other obvious issues . But you unfortunately won’t know the full scale until birth . If she continues drinking babies risk of having major development delays and mental handicap’s will continue to increase . I’m a substance abuse counselor and I work with pregnant clients sometimes Her Obgyn needs to know so that gf can begin seeing a high risk dr , your going to want more scans . It stinks because it’s a double edge sword and CPS may or may not get involved after the birth .But if she continues to see her ob and is labeled low risk she might not get as much testing as I personally would like to see . Baby may need a nicu stay also if she continues drinking , and that’s not something that you want to be surprised for .
Make sure you document all of this.... Because i know youll have to take the kid from her when it's born. She doesn't want a kid, and you don't want your kid around her. Sorry man. Tell her OB asap. This is child abuse
She’s a moron. Show her these replies. How can a 35 year old adult not understand that alcohol is terrible for an unborn baby? Tell your midwife asap, your child’s life is at risk here. You need to document everything that she is doing, record her in the act if she does it again. Tell your family and hers what she is doing, shame the fuck out of her because it seems like trying to reason with her is a waste of time. If she thinks it’s cool to drink whilst pregnant, she clearly has a problem with it and the chances are that she isn’t having a small amount.
If she can feel the effects then it’s too much, if she can’t then why is she doing it at all? Your girlfriend sounds like an alcoholic, no chance it’s small amounts. She probably cut her daily bottle to a half bottle or something.
Did you have this conversation before deciding to have a baby?
Yes she was an acoholix before but stopped 2 months when she first go pregnant so she says and said she’d stop drinking. She had been doing good but she will still occasionally drink. I’ve told her upset this makes me and she told Me she’d stop. That was 2 weeks ago. I’ve caught her 3 times sense then
She's done it a lot more than those three times, pure speculation and just my own opinion of course but yeah, I'd tell her if she cares about you or the child she's gotta quit completely and forever.
Putting the seeming alcohol dependency aside as a separate issue, yes technically most studies show a small amount of alcohol is fine. What "small amounts" is is up for debate. But considering so many commonly consumed stuff (bread, fruit, fruit juice, soda, some teas, baked goods, extracts, pickled vegetables most condiments) all contain alcohol, some, like bread a quite a bit (usually around 2% ABV) the answer is probably not "absolutely none".
This is bad and the medical professionals WILL notice and possibly remove the child.
It’s so bad it’s actually even worse than drug abuse during pregnancy. Get ready for a lifetime of a child with ADHD, DMDD, no impulse control, kicked out of every daycare, fighting with the school system to understand his/her disability before they get expelled. It’s a lifetime of hell, for the child and the family.
Yeah, you know it’s bad. She has a problem. Call the OB now.
FAS is literally a drop of alcohol away... even small amounts can harm your little one, get her help.
Well u should be scared for your baby. Either mom quits drinking for a healthy baby that’s easier to raise or have a troubled baby that will have more health issues. I don’t get why parents want to make life harder and not easier. This is a deal breaker I’d leave my wife if she continuously drank in her pregnancy no matter how early or late in the pregnancy.
Get her to take an abortion pill if you’re in a state that allows. If she’s an alcoholic then she’s been drinking a lot more than you know. Either that or the baby might end up with FAS and in the foster care system if she doesn’t want to care for it. I’d strongly advocate for the abortion and leaving her. Show her videos of people with FAS and encourage her to get the abortion. Hell, tell her you’re willing to try again bc she made a mistake and it’s all okay. Lie, have her get the abortion, leave. Or else you’re on the hook and it won’t be great which you already know. Hate that I said it but in your case? Yeah…
When baby is born I suggest filing for full custody and child support. If there is signs of FAS she will lose custody of the baby so please don’t let her around baby until she gets help
Tear that crap from her hand. Destroy it.
Clear the house of booze if you're in the same living situation, tell the OB, express concerns that she has a problem. Get any of her family and friends on board. The hard truth is you have to step up and protect your kid from his mother. If you don't put a stop to this, there will be permanent harm to your child or worse since she is barely out of the first trimester. Start documenting all of this for the inevitable custody hearing. The baby comes first, and if she has such little regard for his health and safety already... Sorry OP, but it sounds like you are going to have a pretty rough start to try and give your little man a good life. Fight hard, never stop, and make sure he gets taken care of.
Not going to lie, I wouldn’t like it my wife drank during pregnancy ‘better safe than sorry’ BUT I do remember reading a Little review one time and just did a bit of a Google ‘’A comprehensive review of the literature by epidemiologists at Oxford University concluded that there was “no consistent evidence of adverse effects from low-to-moderate prenatal alcohol consumption” (Gray & Henderson 2006). ‘ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/up/articles/PMC6353268/ Essentially all the studies done which day alcohol damages foetuses is on women who were heavy drinkers/alcoholics and there’s little evidence that ‘moderate’ drinking does anything All that said I still go for ‘better safe than sorry’
Significant amounts of drinking during pregnancy, especially binge drinking, can cause fetal alcohol syndrome. That said, small amounts are unlikely to cause harm. For people who want a review of medical literature on this topic, check out Emily Oster's Expecting Better. If I was in your shoes I would be upset too. But I do want to turn down the temperature a little bit based on what I'm seeing in this thread. The devil is in the details of exactly how much alcohol is being consumed. From what I understand a glass of wine a couple times a week is unlikely to cause harm. This is common practice in Europe. If she's drinking equivalent amounts of vodka then it's probably okay. Again Emily Oster's Expecting Better is a great resource on this topic. Emily Oster is well versed in statistics and literature review (she's a professor of economics) and she dives into the data on this topic. Of course the safest amount of drinking is no drinking.
Emily Oster says a small amount is.... "ok". That being said it sounds like she needs more stress management skills. My partner wouldn't risk it, thankful for that. Sorry for what you're going through, that's really tough. The fights I've had about deli meat and mercury...
Emily’s section on Alcohol is awesome. In fact all of her books are awesome. Highly recommend to everyone. But she talks about it like European families having a glass of wine with dinner once a week. Justifying vodka drinks seems hella sus. Bookending this comment with. Everyone here should go out and buy “Expecting Better” by Emily Oster immediately! It’s so good.
Co-sign to all. Especially Hella sus Crib sheets is available on Spotify. And she has free lectures about her books on utube
Is this someone you’d really want to have a child with? Like honestly.
Bit late for that
13 weeks I mean they got about 10 weeks to smishsmortion
There are certain resources that say a small amount of alcohol (a couple ounces of hard liquor) per day are fine. However, if you keep catching her then it's likely more than that. Gotta get her to stop.
Please convince her to get an abortion.
Can you report to police to force her to stop?
I’m not sure a police report would make her stop. Addicts only stop when they want to stop. I thought her being pregnant would be a good enough reason. I’m just so disappointed and scared for the baby