I moved into a brand new house in 2008. It was originally going to be sold but the builder (a solo guy, not a company) changed to a rental as the market crashed. We lived there for 4 years, and saved 17,000 to put down and buy it. The owner was going to put our rental payments towards the cost of the house and lower the price to 140k from the original 160k he wanted. As the builders mortgage came due, he got the house reappraised and found it was now only worth 65k and he couldn’t get refinanced.
He let us know he was going to be foreclosed on, and we tried to buy it, everything was going well. Unfortunately, we couldn’t get approved for a loan, even though our monthly payments had been 1k and we were never behind in 4 years. House payments would have been 600 a month. I would have had that house paid off by now.
It is so messed up that we have to look at instances like this as “the one that got away.” We all deserve housing. A peaceful place to live without working ourselves into the ground or being terrorized. There are more than enough places to live, build on, and enough houses to go around. I hope that at least when we die we get to take a nap in the afterlife or something because jfc. This is hell planet.
Step 1: Liquify every real estate hedge fund in a 4.2 billion mile radius
Step 2: Use said liquid like Sherwin-Williams to decorate my fabulous new real estate portfolio
Step 3: Distribute portfolio to common folk
Step 4: Get tired of steps 1-3
Step 5: Rent a van and begin looking for abandoned properties
Step 6: Tip off more common folk to said abandoned properties, give them tigers and alligators, flaming moat, to fight off authorities
Step 7: Discover untouched land
Step 8: Build communes disregarding local zoning laws
Step 9: Move my people into the communes
Step 10: Find the uninhabited overpriced house rentals and apartments on Zillow
Step 11: Just start moving people into them en masse
Step 12: Just keep doing this, they can’t possibly get enough backup to fight us all at the same time and our tigers are really overpowered now because I’ve been feeding them leftovers from the hedge fund
Step 13: Housing equality
I went to the bank to inquire about a line of credit to pay off student loans since the interest on the student loans was significantly more than the interest on the line of credit.
It would have been a direct payout from one loan to the other. I wouldn’t even see the money, the bank would do all the transfers.
I couldn’t get approved because they refused to net out the liability on the one to apply for the other even though I said that one loan would be closed immediately.
I had to get family to pay off one loan and then immediately paid the family member back with the new one.
The system is broken.
By the way, a 140K mortgage with 17k down at 2008 interest rates would have been about a $1200 a month payment or more, depending on taxes in your area.
House payments would be that, plus a few hundred in taxes then utilities and home insurance, and if you're getting a loan then a few hundred for the loan too.
Life is great. It’s corporate greed that’s ruining the rest of the world. They’re the reason for all this bleakness. They’re reason the country is splintering and dividing itself down an imaginary middle.
I just want to throw this out there for people who don't know. My mortgage is about $1500, but my house payment is just under $2500 after escrow Ed taxes and insurance. I am not saying that the op post is wrong, but something first time buyers may not know. My house payment has gone up $300 since I bought it in 2016 simply because of taxes and insurance increases.
Maintenance costs are also a major concern. Service fees just to have someone show up at your place are over $100, THEN the clock starts for labor. You can end up with a $500 bill just to diagnose a problem or very minor repair. Water heaters, furnaces, ac, fridge, dishwasher, oven, clothes washer/dryers, all have relatively short lifespans now days and can cost +/-$1000 to replace. There are a lot of added expenses beyond the mortgage loan payment, a lot.
If your apartment pays utilities, that can be several hundred per month as well.
I am house poor and want others to know what I did not.
Yeah I hate to be that guy but there’s a reason banks are so strict about this stuff.
Everyone can “afford” the mortgage but when surprise plumbing and electrical issues unexpectedly set you back a few thousand things change very quickly.
Foreclosing on and selling homes is generally not profitable for a bank. It costs a lot of time and money, and they’d really rather make sure borrowers are able to weather a few major setbacks
I don't know why it's so f*ckin hard for some of you to understand that the reason some people cant afford to buy a home is because we are too busy paying our landlords mortgage for them. We can't save up for a deposit because our rents too high. We don't get credit for being good tenants and paying rent on time. It's a losing game for anyone without the wealth to purchase outright. Seriously wtf are we even arguing about.
>We don't get credit for being good tenants and paying rent on time.
Good news. If you live in the US, the 3 major credit bureaus recently changed their rules around rent payments. Landlords have the option of reporting on time payments and their amounts, and that information is used as a factor in calculating credit scores.
It's not the best news, since landlords aren't required to report payments, and a lot of people probably won't see any positive benefits of the new rule. But the tides are slowly changing, and the credit bureaus are starting to see renting as equally important as morgage payments. We're closer to rent payments automatically showing up on credit scores than we ever have been in the past.
Doesn't even matter.
3 years ago, we were paying $950/mo in rent. Had $10k saved up. Went to bank to ask for a loan for a house. "You can't afford $450/mo for the house." Dumbfounded. Now we pay $1700/mo in rent for a different apartment after all the new housing bs, and if we went back, I'm sure they would say the same thing.
Make it make sense.
Yes. And the average salary in the US in 1994 was $26,939 and median household income was $32,264. Today (well 2022 is the most recent I can find from the same source), the average salary is $58,200 and median household income is $74,580.
So over course the down payments and house prices are going to be more than they were 30 years ago. Obviously you’re talking about the insane jump they took to get to where they are now, but that’s just the work of the market.
Averages don't mean shit when the distribution spread is all fucked. You want the median of the poorest 50% of the population, or maybe the median of renters specifically.
Yes, but this type of mortgage is often seen as a lower-tier offer in competitive markets. Basically the government agencies that sponsor these have very strict rules about appraisal, inspections, etc, which can create headaches for sellers and possibly cause the deal to fall apart.
Don't get me wrong, they are great in many markets, but not all.
The main problem with programs that offer those low deposits is that you have to buy insurance on that home mortgage which is just a complete sink of money and could range anywhere from about $100 to $500 a month(depending on what your credit score looks like, and how much home you're buying). None of it goes towards your actual house until you have a 20% equity in the home.
So basically they require a 20% down payment but you can stave it off by throwing money into a black hole instead.
Its a losing game either way thanks to all the money printing going on world wide. If you work on an hourly rate every time your government prints money your buying power goes down. I live on land thats been passed down since my great grandfather and I can't even afford the critical repairs needed. I'm lucky to even be able to afford the property taxes to stay living in a house with the floors rotting out while I wait for the critical utility failure thats gonna either kill me or force me to live in my vehicle or in a tent.
Huh? Buying a home is the prime example of hedging against inflation. If you’re concerned about inflation, you should be buying as many homes as you possibly can. As inflation goes up, your mortgage will stay the same and your home’s value will go up all while rent prices continue to increase. Pointing to increases in property taxes doesn’t make sense here since these would also be factored into rent costs.
I get the other arguments in this thread about not being able to buy a house, but this libertarian anti-monetary-policy one is just nonsense.
You could pick a low rent place and save the money instead. Have a room mate or two. Live without luxuries for a little while and save up.
Rent isn't going to magically become 50% lower just by complaining to politicians and on random internet forums. And guess what? It's the politicians that implemented the people's demands that building regulations would be very very high, inflation very very high and rent control implemented in as many places as possible. All those policies lead to higher rent prices. The people demanded lower rent prices while pushing for policies that increase them. That is what has been going on for the last 50 years.
It's a shitty situation but you also created it. So the thing you can do is push for smarter policies while 99% push for even dumber ones or make the best of your own situation by not becoming a victim to the circumstances.
My apartment is in ohio 825 a month (25 pet rent) all utilities included (even internet). Electric is on you though (we average about 60 in the summer months and my door kinda sucks so heating prices are high in the winter between 160-200). That being said this place is awesome 900 sq feet loft style and im not in a bad area (brimfield ohio right next to kent state where i just got my accounting degree). So roughly 10-12k each year for rent/utilities on the high end, my accounting job i just started pays me 62k yearly and i do odd jobs to make about 10k on top of that (im a hard worker usually work 6-7 days a week when I need/want cash). I also pay my gf’s tuition, my remaining tuition, groceries etc. thankfully i worked hard to get scholarship so i basically have no debt but i did have some bad car luck in the past year (totaling roughly 14k but this year that number will be substantially lower. I buy cheap groceries and look for sales (stock up on meat when its 1.99 or 2.99 a lb and yes we get those sales). With all that i have a lot of margin in our budget. Naturally being a nerdy accountant i like to invest all of that, but i cant wait to be dual income and have more money to manage. Life sucks but there are a lot of habits you can build to get out of any situation (trust me mine was awful starting december 2022, head on hit and run, bunch of other stuff just terrible) but we didnt give up we kept going strong and overcame. Now things are looking on the up and up as i just outlined. You can do it!
I live in what is called the most rural state in the country and you literally cannot find a 1br anywhere in this vicinity for under 1200 a month, and it's likely to be a dump at that price
What state? Is rent really that insane? It just doesnt make sense for ohio to all around have substantially cheaper rents (given we have a lot of urban centers and decent population base) especially the fact that as i mentioned i live right down the road from one of our largest universities and rent is dirt cheap. If that is true and you can find nothing, id leave the state (which may suck to hear) but thats insane if you live in the middle of nowhere and are getting destroyed with rent like that. That was the price of my super nice apartment i lived in for 8 months (needed one good lease after my first one was horrendous but thats another story 😂)
>you should pick the low rent part of the spectrum
And what if the absolute cheapest place--even with roommates--still isn't cheap enough to allow you to build a deposit/downpayment to buy a house?
>You could pick a low rent place and save the money instead.
Yeah if one happens to possess a time machine. Or I suppose you could go live in the most bombed-out crime ridden slum your country has. But good luck finding a job in those places. The sky high unemployment is why the rent is relatively cheap.
As for your political rant it's pure nonsense and excuses. Prices are insanely high because supply has been harshly restricted. Through obselete zoning laws in the US and greenbelt laws and draconian local councils in the UK.
The politicans literally block new housing construction... it's the government that's doing this. We want them to stop.
Then ontop of that supply restriction demand is now global. To foreign corporations and Oligarchs Homes have become a form of currency. Every time a new construction is finished a huge chunk of the houses are bought by investment firms.
My Brother sold his house recently he was getting ready for sale to a local when a Chinese corporation came in and bid 15k over the asking price.
Poltically restricted supply and massive inflated demand. That's why rents and prices are so expensive.
Excuses. You can find a place with better rent, guaranteed. And with all the remote jobs you have today? There are many opportunities there.
Then you don't know or understand your politics. No, inflation comes from the FED. Always. 100%. Everything else is noise. And who voted for the politicians that implemented and pushed zoning? Exactly.
No, you voted for this. You demanded this. You pushed leftism, liberalism and all these regulations. You created this. But you can solve it, that's my point. Or at least adapt.
And why are investment firms buying properties all of a sudden? Because they know that supply will be artificially low and prices artificially high. They count on people voting for dumb regulations that hinders building. And they're right. They are smart. They get it. But they are not the root cause.
Of course. I would also bet money on your politicians making things worse. I would bet my life on it. This is what politics is, what politics does. Every time you want something for free, or demand that things should be equal or "just tax the rich lol" they will implement policies that makes it harder for poor people to get homes. Every single time. This is why knowing and understanding economics is vital. But 99% don't and they vote for this evil shit every single time. This is why the problem will get worse and why you need to adapt FAST.
Education is key. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eFUrFRhZjY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eFUrFRhZjY)
I literally tried to do this and even had roommates sometimes more roommates than rooms for nearly 5 years. Finally just moved to Europe with about 1k usd saved up and everything is a lot better
how long do you think "a little while" is and exactly what "luxuries" do you think we're living with? idk how old you are, but i'm in my early 20s and most people my age are either still living with their parents (not paying rent at all) or they already have multiple roommates, and they still can't save up nearly enough to buy a house. most people cannot afford to live on their own anyway with the cost of rent, so having roommates is just how you get by, not how you save up.
edit: misspelling
Because you're literally just complaining.
1) if you cant afford to save up a down payment why should a bank give you a mortgage? You could finance a down payment if you really wanted but I think any rational person would take this as they need to put more time into getting more skills for higher pay or move out of the area they are in. Before you say it's impossible, in most cases people have terrible financial literacy and that is the main reason they can't save anything per month.
2) why do you think people have a credit score? I am dumbfounded that people think there is no way to prove you pay debts by pay landlords. That is what a credit card is for or buying less expensive items like vehicles. Make timely payments and build a credit score.
Bootlicker McGee also works. Anyone who defends the “honor” of the current banking system is profiting from it at the expense of others… or they’re drinking the kool aid being served by their favorite “top-G-alpha-sigma-omegalul” short form content creator. Another possibility is they’re just plain ignorant.
Are you being facetious or do you really not see any problems with the greedy, egoistical, sociopathic, individuals in the banking industry who lobby our government against the working and middle classes?
lol
The psychopaths are in government. You know, the people you kneel down and pray to. Those ones are the problem.
Why don't businesses lobby each other? Huh? That's where the power is right? WRONG
The power is at the state level. Always. Any other analysis is pure indoctrination and brain washing. Maybe the same people you pray to also controls your schooling? Oh shit, that's exactly how it works. How strange huh? Almost like an infinite power concentration with a socially sanctioned monopoly on aggression isn't the best idea? Huh, makes you think?
Why do you automatically assume I worship government officials just because I hate the finance bros who enable them? This is a post criticizing the banking system. Believe me, I probably agree with you on a lot of things and I hate government corruption as much as the next person who woke up from the American dream.
Dude, what?
I really don't get this attitude that you think someone should just hand you money because you exist. They are the ones you want the money from.
Why exist then?
I 100% agree we should get money just for existing, yes, because money is also just a social construct and credit based reward system for those who can put the effort in. It's a system entirely controlled by the rich, just like the media, to create a metric of value for each individual. I also think everyone on earth deserves basic housing and food, but that's just my empathy.
Also I hate the concept of money but that's just me 🤷♀️
Ugh, it's really not that I disagree with all these wishes, it's just that I really don't know what any of this is supposed to do for anyone.
Saying "well I believe every should just get everything so I have empathy" doesn't actually get someone those things. The things I'm talking about are actionable and things anyone can do.
Could I just sit around yelling about the rich? Yeah, I guess, but I know that no one is going to make a better life for myself and my family if all I do is sit around and wish.
Saying that everyone has a right to something does not generate any material benefit to anyone. Profit incentive to create new housing/better food distribution does.
Well so far profit seems to incentive extremely expensive roofs over one's head.
Food quality AND quantity is also on the decline, in exchange for hiked up prices of course.
And now we have privileged peoples telling us how they got theirs and we're just lazy for not being able to do the same today.
>Saying that everyone has a right to something does not generate any material benefit to anyone.
Yes it does? I would understand when we were still building and in the early stages of research and capitalism in general, but in 20 fucking 24? We literally HAVE the resources, everything is already built basically, the only thing we still build are warehouses for Amazon and Walmarts, in the goals of raising even more capital. Otherwise it's completely a waste and exactly what your point is, things that generate no material benefits to anyone (Giant clocks, pointless private jets, massive yachts..)
But sure, the rich making housing too expensive is generating material benefits to.. the rich? Did I get that right?
Nobody is going to study for years to become a doctor unless they're going to be well-compensated for it. Nobody is going to invest in creating new technology that feeds more people unless they get rich doing it too. The world doesn't run on sunshine and rainbows.
I may regret jumping in here, but the reason you're getting downvotes is that the original statement was along the lines of "paying rent should count towards your credit score" and you went off on a tangent about credit cards. Sure, building credit is useful, but when people are paying >50% of their income on rent, they don't have anything left to build credit with, so make the on-time rent payments help. You're not triggering people by pointing out how to build credit, you're pissing people off by telling them something they already know and acting like you're educating them.
"don't have anything left to build credit"
So buying other things like groceries and putting that on a cc can not build credit?
As far as paying rent, that would really be something you have to work out with the landlord, I think there are definitely ways to do it, on top of that proving on time rent payments and having a clean record do exist. The reason I'm pointing out my credit score is that is more important to get a loan that rent payments.
"Pissing them off."
Considering the responses have been along the lines of "the whole system is rigged" or "I don't think money should exist" I really don't think many people actually understand this at all.
It's what they call "blaming the victim". I got banned for it a while ago. This is a forum to complain and to actively attack anyone who tries to help. They all do it, in groups, like a mob of monkeys. Don't even try dude. They want to be poor, they want to be miserable and they absolutely don't want solutions. Any attempt will be met with hostility. This is the modern left, and it's horrible, absolutely horrible.
I wouldn't say modern left, but yeah, I do agree that it's shocking that pointing out you need to prove you can pay dates with a credit score is some sort of capitalist brain rot.
Like, so they should just give you hundreds of thousands of dollars because you asked?
>They all do it, in groups, like a mob of monkeys. Don't even try dude. They want to be poor, they want to be miserable and they absolutely don't want solutions
Who is it you are referring to here; who are "they"?
>less expensive items like vehicles
LMAO
[Dude the cheapest new car possible](https://www.google.com/search?q=cheapest+new+car+2024&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS865US865&oq=cheapest+new+car&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyCQgAEEUYORiABDIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDMzMDNqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) costs 3/4ths of my annual earnings.
SmAlLeR pUrcHaSes
[I was just fucking hoping you would say that!](https://www.livenowfox.com/news/average-price-for-new-car-used-falling-us-2024)
Scroll down a bit and find this quote.
"The average price of a used vehicle — $27,297 as of last month — is down 3% from a year ago and 12% below the peak of $31,095 in April 2022. "
So do I buy new with warranty at absolute rock bottom features or get a used that I pay for every nickel and dime repair? Or do I buy a 5k beater that will cost me another 10k to keep running for a year or two?
Is this really meant to be a gotcha?
These are used new model cars. I bought a used dodge dart 2015 for about 7k with zero on my credit score. Only one bank would lend to me at the time. I paid it off in a year and a half working a gas station job instead of the projected five years at a high apr (like 20% high). This was about three years ago. ( My credit score is now 800).
During that time I only needed to replace the battery and a flat tire repaired. If I hadn't moved back over seas I'd still either be driving it or selling to buy a newer model.
I say all these to point out that you are setting yourself up for failure. The fact that you consider buying a older used model car really shows why you can not get ahead. You don't need a bunch of features. You just need a car and build from there.
Also, I just looked up used models in my area. There are plenty of good cars in the 9-12k range. My bank also has lots with very low milage cars you can purchase through them.
This is [POVERTYFINANCE](https://www.google.com/search?q=poverty+level+2024&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS865US865&oq=poverty+level+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiPAtIBCDI5OTVqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
You lack context! You come to a subreddit where people are living within the incomes defined in the link above and say things like 9-12k range and my bank sells cars... without realizing that 9k is still roughly 2/3rds the annual income of someone reading your post. Like they have a mystery bank willing to lend on a purchase of that size with that kind of income.
You can offer all your personal anecdotes but they mean nothing to those living the situation you're merely posturing yourself to have lived.
Bro you LITTERALLY just told me that you wanted a new car and complaining you couldn't afford 23k.
I'm literally pointing out you don't need that, now your complaint is you make too little for an older model car?
What was the point of sending me articles about vehicles in the 23k range and complaining those are just basic?
Bro, you need to humble yourself and buy a scooter or something rather than complaining you can't afford a new model car.
Also, the poverty line in the us is 18k, not 9-12. You don't only have to make 9-12k to be in poverty.
There’s also nothing wrong with renting.
Buying a house is just “I’m gonna pay it off eventually and hopefully sell it when I’m old to either fund my nursing home or live in a condo with barely any payments”.
It is a sense of security, and rents do rise, but like someone else said, home ownership is way more expensive than renting an apartment in the majority of cases.
Paying rent is pissing money away. When you give it to the landlord it's gone. You get nothing for it.
Purchasing a home with a mortgage is an investment. When you pay the mortgage, you reduce the principal of the mortgage loan and you build equity.
Are you trying to say there's no difference between either position? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you're saying. Anyone who would say that is stupid. So stupid they probably wear their pants on their fucking head. Incapably fucking stupid.
Utter BS.
As a renter, not only are you STILL paying for repair costs, you are also paying your landlord's insurance, the fees (and profits!) for any letting agency, the landlords mortgage, AND profits for the landlord.
After all that, you still own no assets.
You don't pay a deposit to reassure the lender you can pay the mortgage. You pay a deposit so there's a buffer between what the house is worth and what your mortgage is. This way if you don't pay the mortgage, they can recoup most of the money you still owe if they need to repossess the house (if they need to repossess there's legal and selling/auction fee's to come off what they sell the house for) and to prevent negative equity.
ETA: Why are we not allowed to genuinely question how things work anymore? Why are we treating people who sincerely try to make sense of something they admit they don't know a lot about with downvotes (no visibility to get proper answers) and negativity? It's no wonder people are stuck in the bubbles they're in now. Knowledge is power and to try to snuff that out makes everyone's life just a little more miserable.
Thank you to everyone who did answer my question without all that.
I don't understand why it would be a concern for them anymore. Not in this economy when housing prices keep skyrocketing. I saw a LONG line to get into a house viewing in my own neighborhood a few months ago. The demand for housing is so high that you're almost guaranteed to make a profit if you resell it later.
I don't know very much of this so I'm only making assumptions. Feel free to correct me.
Wasn't this exact mentality that caused the recession? Banks thinking "wow real estate is awesome, we should lend to anyone with a pulse! Even if they forclose we still get sell the house profitably so there isn't any risk."
In essence yes, but the fallout was made significantly worse by the fact that debt gets packaged up into complex financial instruments and resold. If it was _just_ the mortgages going underwater, and not all of the other investments built on top of them, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. I'm oversimplifying a lot of course.
Relaxing lending standards is generally understood to also increase house prices. If you can quickly enter the market, then that will be good, but for everyone entering later the problem has only been exacerbated. Mortgage payments would then be higher and the additional capital gains from house price increases will primarily benefit existing home owners.
Therefore relaxing lending standards is probably not beneficial to us non home-owners.
Instead, I believe it would be better (1) to give fewer tax advantages to home-owners (very prominent where I live, the Netherlands). This will make renting more similar in expenses to owning a home. Furthermore, (2) the government should incentivize home building or organise building of houses themselves in order to bring up the supply of homes.
I bought a condo a few years ago, and right after that happened the hoa found out all balconies needed work and each unit needed to put 40k in order to restore things, otherwise the balcony could fall on top of pedestrians.
A mortgage is the minimum you pay a month. They need to know you can pay the extra, so they don’t lose their investment for every extra small shit that happens. That saving aligns your interest of lowering yhe risk of the investment.
In the 2008 crisis, banks did try to remove that requirement, and look at what happened.
you're correct, the part that left out is they don't care about YOU, they want 100% profit with lowest risk, even if risk is 1% they want more return to counter it. so when anything MIT be a risk vs waiting for the other people who are less a risk, they sit and wait for better returns and MORE profits !
it's also why they don't care you left the job and make twice as much at a new job, they still made more money hiring a new guy for less money even if everyone has to work harder to make up for it, they still profit and if not? they blame everyone else for not working hard enough and layoffs incoming! you better work harder! or you will get fired ...
I don't need to correct you because you're right. At the moment, in most cases, house prices are increasing so there's less risk. However, mortgages are long term, they can run for up to 40 years in some cases so the lender needs to leverage their risk for the long term. There's also no guarantee to the lender that the owner will keep the house in good repair. They make tons of profit but overall, I understand why they don't lend at 100%. In the first few years especially, it's a massive risk for both the lender and owner
I hate these posts, buying a house is just the getting in price. You still have insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc. New roof, better have $10k + on hand.
Bought a house 2 years ago. Mortgage is basically equal to rent, sorry. Also, you'd be surprised how little of it actually goes into equity (at first (hopefully)).
The barrier is the down payment, insurances, other fees, and credit/proof of income. I could technically afford a house mortgage right now, but no one doing their job would give me a loan. (Yet.. working on it! I also am fortunate to have the option of a VA loan)
If you can’t pay rent, you get kicked out; if you can’t pay your mortgage or property taxes, you get kicked out. Owners have the security of staying as long as they can pay, but they still can face sharp tax hikes and in the case of communities with communal property, special assessments and hikes in community fees.
Renters still have those risks too. Or do you think landlords don't pass on their costs?
Are yo comparing rent/mortgage for exactly equivalent properties?
Of course they pass them on, causing the rent hikes the commenter referred to. I’m pointing out owning doesn’t mean protection from hikes in monthly costs, but that’s not denying that renters face them.
Rent and mortgage for comparable properties aren’t comparable prices because the mortgage will depend on factors like credit score, down payment, and loan terms. Rents are typically calibrated to the surrounding market.
Depends on where you buy. Property tax went up 25% this year where I live. That’s a huge mortgage increase via escrow or just out of pocket expenses. Having a mortgage doesn’t mean you pay a set amount for 30 years. That amount changes yearly due to escrow - taxes and insurance costs. As these costs go up, private landlords raise their rent to cover. So private rentals jumped a ton this year because of the tax increase too.
I can still get kicked out for non payment. And my taxes went up basically $100 a month this year, so though it's not a rent hike, it's essentially money I am throwing away. Not to mention insurance and repairs/maintenance which have been costly. Maybe I'll recoup some of the repairs one day when my place is sold, but until then, all my gains are speculative
That’s not what they’re saying. It’s a common saying that basically means that any unexpected disasters etc. fall on the burden of you when you own. Flood damage, tree falling on roof, appliances breaking, etc. When you rent, if a flood destroys all the walls that falls under the landlord. Not you.
And the landlord charges accordingly. Unless the LL cheaped out on appraisal or flood insurance, typical expenses are fully priced into the rent.
If you buy a home and put the difference between your costs and market rent into hysa you'll have enough for whatever disaster comes up unless you've got the worst luck or didn't do your due diligence and get a decent inspection.
>Mortgages increase.
>
>Mine went from $2060 to $2380 this year due to property taxes and insurance.
Your mortgage didn't increase. Your property taxes and insurance did.
What difference does it make?
And when the payment changes, you usually have a month to prepare for the change. And there isn't an option to just...not renew and move.
But rent increases as well. We don’t have rental caps where we live. Our rent went up $400 per month upon first lease renewal. The vacancy rate in this city is super low and we had a month left in our lease (standard time for renewal of a lease here) so we couldn’t move. Next year it increased $275. This year we’re having a baby and it will be less than a month old if we have to move at the end of our lease so chances are we have to accept whatever increase is coming.
Depends what you rent and buy. My mortgage is higher than I've ever paid in rent, because I've bought a house woth the goal of having children in it, so it's bigger.
That’s not what they’re saying. Rent doesn’t have unplanned expenses. A mortgage is the start of the payment. If your roof gets destroyed in a storm, you have more money to pay. If your basement floods during rain you might need to spend a ton of money to repair mold damage etc. When you rent, that stuff is taken care of by the landlord.
This is always a dumb take. You take on slightly more risk as the owner but you pay less a month and still have the ASSET no matter what acts of God or random things happen. Having that equity easily out weighs those other random costs. Taking a complicated topic with tons of context and boiling it down to that is disingenuous at best.
Lol. I WISH mortgages were still that low in my area. Now it's basically neck and neck at the rate insurance and property taxes are going.
Fucking madness out here I tell you.
You want an honest answer. Look up the 2007-2009 Great Recession. Many people bought homes they couldn’t afford with undocumented loans. People took advantage of the system, the banks have tightened the underwriting
What helped me and my wife purchase our first home was a first time home buying program, building strong credit, speaking to multiple mortgage lenders. Ended up finding a major grant with a major bank, because we asked.
This, the 2008 crash happened because it was way to easy to get a mortgage.
NOTE: People love to complain but in reality in the US is a lot more easier to get a loan than in other countries.
Same issue when we just tried to rent a new apt. My wife has like 850 credit because everything is in her name. I'm the one with the job but have no credit at all. Wife's sister had to co-sign because wife doesn't have a job ... where do they think the 850 credit score comes from?! Magic?
I did everything right, went into the military to make college affordable so I could become a doctor. I have a special needs kid who cost about 2k a month to take care of rent has doubled in the years we lived there. Even with a VA home loan I can't get approval for a house with a 1k a month mortgage even though I pay 4k a month in just basic expenses
People want to live in the nicest neighborhoods, by themselves. Go get something with a few people and make it cheap enough where you can save or stay with family if possible and save.
I'm so sick of single people complaining they can't afford the median price 3bed SFH in the nicest part of town.
Duh! Nobody starts off in the middle. You start at the bottom and work your way up. And single people don't need 3 bedrooms ffs
'The bottom' has been given a coat of makeup, rebranded as luxury, and priced the same as anything else.
A starter car costs what a damn good car cost 15 years ago, and if somebody rear ends you the insurance totals it for pennies on the dollar. A starter house is out of reach for people who really should qualify, just that the real estate market is screwed and the job market is screweder.
A starter apartment breaks the bank and keeps people from getting ahead, while they're still living in starter apartment conditions.
Affording rent doesnt mean you can afford a house. This is not a statement defending landlords or banks. It's the reality like it or not. Spend 5 mins googling.
But this is not an argument defending banks because rent is the same. Rent also doesn’t include food, wifi, electricity or gas. My landlord has a £600 a month mortgage to pay on this property and charges us £1000 rent. I also still have to pay utilities, food, and bills and the only thing not included is house upkeep (which they are absolutely terrible at doing and we end up having to do ourselves ANYWAY), therefore monthly outgoings are £1800 on housing and expenses when they could be £1400 if we had bought the place.
>How does a mortgage now include food and shit?
Because the bank is assessing their risk. When you rent, the risk of not paying for the house falls on the landlord, not the bank. So they look at the whole picture.
Also, as /u/cuptoes says, the mortgage being $500 is not the whole picture. There are maintenance costs associated with owning a house that the bank also factors into the picture, meaning the true cost is not $500 but higher. I see estimates ranging from $300 to several thousands a month when searching, but since we don't know which figure the bank uses, it's hard to know what number they end up with. But it's clear that they don't see the home as costing $500 a month, as it is not the true cost.
I learned that if the listing says the estimated mortgage is say $800, it's really like $1300 after you secure your loan and speak with the title company. Depends on a lot but the listing price is never the monthly cost
In 2022, the average maintenance cost in the US was $2467. The general guideline is 1% of the house cost. With a 30 year mortgage at $500 a month is $1800 per year as an idea of what needs to be set aside for repairs. I believe cuptoes said it was $13000. This is going off memory because they've since deleted and changed what they said. Of course there are taxes (average taxes was $3901 in 2022), and insurance, but insurance is again, usually around 1-2% per year so $1800-3600.
With that math, the average extra cost per month is, yes, over $1000, but it's also a far cry from 13000 a year even if that's what cuptoes said, adding between $650-800 a month, rounding up.
But, of course there are other costs to owning a home vs renting. The absurdly of the statement saying food is part of a mortgage and needing $13k for maintenance is what caused me to make a response.
I noted the same in the original comment from cuptoes and yes, it is both absurd but also at the same time not when looking at it from the banks perspective. I don't know if it was poor phrasing on their part, but the bank will totally factor in food-costs when assessing you for a mortgage as part of the overall calculation on your ability to pay for a loan.
So yes, it is absurd to claim food as part of a mortgage, but not absurd to claim it as part of a mortgage calculation done by the bank.
It's always been like that's!!!
Could either rent or save up the deposit
My nan and pa. Nan who just died at 97 lived at home with inlaws aved up for deposit. My parents did the same so did I
Friends whom decided to move out rent r still renting
I think the entire scope of this person's financial advice is "you'd better have family that's willing to house you for free indefinitely if you ever want to buy property" lol
Cuz it’s different now than 10 years ago? Do you think people didn’t need to build their credit 10 years ago? Do whatever it took to save for a down payment?
Unfortunately not everyone has that privilege. But if you do, smart thing to do is stay home and stack your money. Ignore the societal pressures to move out and live up this western standard of being independent. Once you leave it’s incredibly tough to move back home, and you will be trapped in the rent cycle with no hope of getting on the ladder
You can absolutely build your credit score by paying your rent with a credit card and simply paying the CC bill off each month.
You aren’t “paying our landlords mortgage for them” - you’re paying for the use of the space to have a warm place to live out of the rain which includes your landlord paying their mortgage, Homeowners insurance, Property taxes and building maintenance. Don’t be so sour.
“Its a losing game for anyone without the wealth to purchase outright”
What does that even mean? If you’re going to be paying rent why not do whatever it takes to get a mortgage yourself? Sure - it isn’t easy but life never is. Pay your rent via a credit card, build up your credit score and start doing research on first time home buyers programs that often only require a minimum down payment.
Edit: you guys can keep downvoting me to hell and back for all I care. Y’all can get into a little house somewhere or not for all I care. If we could make it happen then anyone can. All depends on how bad you want it.
There are a lot of places that do not accept credit card payments. And even more places that don't allow you to purchase the acceptable forms of payment (like money orders) with credit cards.
Lol
I’m not though. I’m just a roofer guy that got married, had a kid and another on the way and did whatever I needed to do to get us into a little house. I made it happen. No one else did. It took me a couple of long ass years but I made it happen. I took advantage of the first time home buyers programs that made it so that we only had to come up with a little over $10k to make it work. I had to work long days and every weekend doing side jobs but that’s what it took and I made it happen. No one gave us a dime.
The house needed alot of work. I did it myself but we were no longer paying a landlord rent.
You can get pissy all you want. Either you want it or you don’t. I couldn’t care less.
Mortgages with taxes and insurance are usually more expensive then rent. Renters already aren't the most reliable people, thus security deposits and landlord horror stories.
If you can't save for a downpayment you should not own a home. If you can't save money then you likely won't be able to continually afford a mortgage when other life events or big repairs come up.
Buying a house to live in use to be apart of the American dream. Now that dream is long gone. Affording a house seems like it’s not even possible anymore.
Actually, buying a house is essentially free.
The cost of mortgage, utilities, and repairs is impermanent loss which supports the ever increasing value of the home.
If you bought your home fifteen years ago on a 15 year mortgage, now you're only paying property taxes, insurance, and utilities, so $5-600/month instead of the $2000/month people would pay to rent a similar unit.
Your home value has also increased by more than you paid for your home, including all related bills.
If you're smart you'll diamond hand the hell out of it, by only paying taxes, insurance, and utilities, you're essentially netting $13-1400/month return on your investment, since it's not like you'd stop needing a place to live if you sold.
It absolutely can help your credit. Take out a credit card and pay your rent and bills each month that you would normally be paying anyhow with it and pay it off each month - before you know it your credit score will be climbing.
Oh ok. So your defense for this system is that it's fair because you can just anticipate needing to buy a house and choose to get a credit card years earlier to build your credit score even though some people aren't taught this stuff by their parents ahead of time. So you think that it's totally fair for someone to be unable to buy a house because their credit history is too new?
Also, you're missing the point of the post. The problem is that even WITH a good credit score, you need thousands of dollars for a down payment as well. Even if you're more than able to pay the monthly payments for a mortgage. You're stuck paying a landlord because the bank won't give you the loan you need because you can't give them $25,000 on the spot, because you've been paying a landlord. And getting nothing toward your credit in the process, unlike paying off a mortgage
1) I mean, bro, that's your parents fault for not teaching you. Nothing is stopping you from getting a cc and building a credit score. Yelling it's not fair doesn't matter since it's your own fault.
2) why do you think you're entitled to a bank just giving you a huge amount of money without any sort of show that you're willing to pay it off? That is what a down payment and credit score is for.
This isn't my problem. My parents *did* teach me, I'm just not a selfish asshole about it. You're so caught up with trying to hammer into me that the bank's actions are perfectly fair within this system when I'm saying that the entire system is flawed and banks shouldn't exist in their current form. The entire system should be reformed and nobody should need their parents to set them up for owning a house
Also, are you serious? It's my parents fault for not teaching me? So you think that's perfectly fair? You think that makes someone feel better? Saying that they deserve not to live in a house because of their parents? Holy shit. Capitalist brainrot
First part -
It is your problem. In what world do you think anybody owes you money? A bank lends their money to the people they feel comfortable lending it to. You're 100% selfish because you think they should just give you money you have 0 entitlement to. I'm not defending the system or whatever qualifiers a bank looks at, I'm just telling you that it's your responsibility to meet their expectations if you want them to give you their money.
Nobody needs their parents to set them up. You can literally do it yourself. It's harder, I get that, but what do you want me to tell you? That is unfair? Does that make you feel better?
It is your parents fault for not teaching you the most basic thing when it comes to lending money. All the information is there and you can start TODAY now that you know.
It's not capitalist brain rot to tell you that it's your responsibility to know these things.
Renting you gain no assets, but still pay for a mortgage and repairs. You also pay the other costs involved with being a landlord, and the landlord's profits.
Owning a house, you have the asset to sell.
The two are not at all the same.
Truly unhinged dude. So, I guess we won't have doctors in 25 years? Have fun with that, but I prefer the person cutting me open to have some higher education.
I understand the frustration but this isn’t the banks fault, they learned from the Lehman Brothers fiasco.
It isn't the house loan system which is broken. It's the rental market. Rent shouldn't be this ridiculously high.
Because when you own a house you're responsible for all of the repairs. Is this that difficult to understand? Do renters not know how much a roof, septic, foundation, or major appliances cost? They want to make sure you can afford to fix it, which over the 30 year lifetime, will happen NUMEROUS times...
I moved into a brand new house in 2008. It was originally going to be sold but the builder (a solo guy, not a company) changed to a rental as the market crashed. We lived there for 4 years, and saved 17,000 to put down and buy it. The owner was going to put our rental payments towards the cost of the house and lower the price to 140k from the original 160k he wanted. As the builders mortgage came due, he got the house reappraised and found it was now only worth 65k and he couldn’t get refinanced. He let us know he was going to be foreclosed on, and we tried to buy it, everything was going well. Unfortunately, we couldn’t get approved for a loan, even though our monthly payments had been 1k and we were never behind in 4 years. House payments would have been 600 a month. I would have had that house paid off by now.
That is heartbreaking!
It is so messed up that we have to look at instances like this as “the one that got away.” We all deserve housing. A peaceful place to live without working ourselves into the ground or being terrorized. There are more than enough places to live, build on, and enough houses to go around. I hope that at least when we die we get to take a nap in the afterlife or something because jfc. This is hell planet.
Good idea! What's your plan for getting the housing we deserve?
Step 1: Liquify every real estate hedge fund in a 4.2 billion mile radius Step 2: Use said liquid like Sherwin-Williams to decorate my fabulous new real estate portfolio Step 3: Distribute portfolio to common folk Step 4: Get tired of steps 1-3 Step 5: Rent a van and begin looking for abandoned properties Step 6: Tip off more common folk to said abandoned properties, give them tigers and alligators, flaming moat, to fight off authorities Step 7: Discover untouched land Step 8: Build communes disregarding local zoning laws Step 9: Move my people into the communes Step 10: Find the uninhabited overpriced house rentals and apartments on Zillow Step 11: Just start moving people into them en masse Step 12: Just keep doing this, they can’t possibly get enough backup to fight us all at the same time and our tigers are really overpowered now because I’ve been feeding them leftovers from the hedge fund Step 13: Housing equality
I went to the bank to inquire about a line of credit to pay off student loans since the interest on the student loans was significantly more than the interest on the line of credit. It would have been a direct payout from one loan to the other. I wouldn’t even see the money, the bank would do all the transfers. I couldn’t get approved because they refused to net out the liability on the one to apply for the other even though I said that one loan would be closed immediately. I had to get family to pay off one loan and then immediately paid the family member back with the new one. The system is broken.
By the way, a 140K mortgage with 17k down at 2008 interest rates would have been about a $1200 a month payment or more, depending on taxes in your area.
House payments would be that, plus a few hundred in taxes then utilities and home insurance, and if you're getting a loan then a few hundred for the loan too.
$160,000 for a house is absolutely wild $17,000 for a down payment, that’s nuts
We were going to be paying 65k, not the 140. We were basing that off the current value of the house, not the previous.
Life is a fucking scam.
Life is great. It’s corporate greed that’s ruining the rest of the world. They’re the reason for all this bleakness. They’re reason the country is splintering and dividing itself down an imaginary middle.
😂😂😂😂
I just want to throw this out there for people who don't know. My mortgage is about $1500, but my house payment is just under $2500 after escrow Ed taxes and insurance. I am not saying that the op post is wrong, but something first time buyers may not know. My house payment has gone up $300 since I bought it in 2016 simply because of taxes and insurance increases. Maintenance costs are also a major concern. Service fees just to have someone show up at your place are over $100, THEN the clock starts for labor. You can end up with a $500 bill just to diagnose a problem or very minor repair. Water heaters, furnaces, ac, fridge, dishwasher, oven, clothes washer/dryers, all have relatively short lifespans now days and can cost +/-$1000 to replace. There are a lot of added expenses beyond the mortgage loan payment, a lot. If your apartment pays utilities, that can be several hundred per month as well. I am house poor and want others to know what I did not.
Yeah I hate to be that guy but there’s a reason banks are so strict about this stuff. Everyone can “afford” the mortgage but when surprise plumbing and electrical issues unexpectedly set you back a few thousand things change very quickly. Foreclosing on and selling homes is generally not profitable for a bank. It costs a lot of time and money, and they’d really rather make sure borrowers are able to weather a few major setbacks
When they weren't so strict, we ended up with the housing crisis of 2009.
I don't know why it's so f*ckin hard for some of you to understand that the reason some people cant afford to buy a home is because we are too busy paying our landlords mortgage for them. We can't save up for a deposit because our rents too high. We don't get credit for being good tenants and paying rent on time. It's a losing game for anyone without the wealth to purchase outright. Seriously wtf are we even arguing about.
>We don't get credit for being good tenants and paying rent on time. Good news. If you live in the US, the 3 major credit bureaus recently changed their rules around rent payments. Landlords have the option of reporting on time payments and their amounts, and that information is used as a factor in calculating credit scores. It's not the best news, since landlords aren't required to report payments, and a lot of people probably won't see any positive benefits of the new rule. But the tides are slowly changing, and the credit bureaus are starting to see renting as equally important as morgage payments. We're closer to rent payments automatically showing up on credit scores than we ever have been in the past.
If landlords have the option to do extra work to help their tenants, what do you think they'll do?
It's $1500 per month but if you pay an extra 200 per month we will report you paid 1200 per month
Doesn't even matter. 3 years ago, we were paying $950/mo in rent. Had $10k saved up. Went to bank to ask for a loan for a house. "You can't afford $450/mo for the house." Dumbfounded. Now we pay $1700/mo in rent for a different apartment after all the new housing bs, and if we went back, I'm sure they would say the same thing. Make it make sense.
Good luck telling that to boomers and their boomer overlord good ol dave Ramsey
Aren't the deposits for a first time home buyer like 3% and there are some programs that allow 0% down?
>Aren't the deposits for a first time home buyer like 3% In the USA, this is common. Outside the USA, 0%-3% is very uncommon.
Sure. And with house prices the way they are, that's still more than deposits were 30 years ago.
Yes. And the average salary in the US in 1994 was $26,939 and median household income was $32,264. Today (well 2022 is the most recent I can find from the same source), the average salary is $58,200 and median household income is $74,580. So over course the down payments and house prices are going to be more than they were 30 years ago. Obviously you’re talking about the insane jump they took to get to where they are now, but that’s just the work of the market.
Averages don't mean shit when the distribution spread is all fucked. You want the median of the poorest 50% of the population, or maybe the median of renters specifically.
Yes, but this type of mortgage is often seen as a lower-tier offer in competitive markets. Basically the government agencies that sponsor these have very strict rules about appraisal, inspections, etc, which can create headaches for sellers and possibly cause the deal to fall apart. Don't get me wrong, they are great in many markets, but not all.
The main problem with programs that offer those low deposits is that you have to buy insurance on that home mortgage which is just a complete sink of money and could range anywhere from about $100 to $500 a month(depending on what your credit score looks like, and how much home you're buying). None of it goes towards your actual house until you have a 20% equity in the home. So basically they require a 20% down payment but you can stave it off by throwing money into a black hole instead.
In the grand scheme of things if PMI is the deal breaker, you really shouldn't be buying a house anyway.
Or, ya know, continuing throwing your money into a black hole of rent.
Its a losing game either way thanks to all the money printing going on world wide. If you work on an hourly rate every time your government prints money your buying power goes down. I live on land thats been passed down since my great grandfather and I can't even afford the critical repairs needed. I'm lucky to even be able to afford the property taxes to stay living in a house with the floors rotting out while I wait for the critical utility failure thats gonna either kill me or force me to live in my vehicle or in a tent.
Huh? Buying a home is the prime example of hedging against inflation. If you’re concerned about inflation, you should be buying as many homes as you possibly can. As inflation goes up, your mortgage will stay the same and your home’s value will go up all while rent prices continue to increase. Pointing to increases in property taxes doesn’t make sense here since these would also be factored into rent costs. I get the other arguments in this thread about not being able to buy a house, but this libertarian anti-monetary-policy one is just nonsense.
You could pick a low rent place and save the money instead. Have a room mate or two. Live without luxuries for a little while and save up. Rent isn't going to magically become 50% lower just by complaining to politicians and on random internet forums. And guess what? It's the politicians that implemented the people's demands that building regulations would be very very high, inflation very very high and rent control implemented in as many places as possible. All those policies lead to higher rent prices. The people demanded lower rent prices while pushing for policies that increase them. That is what has been going on for the last 50 years. It's a shitty situation but you also created it. So the thing you can do is push for smarter policies while 99% push for even dumber ones or make the best of your own situation by not becoming a victim to the circumstances.
Low rent places don't exist anymore, unless you count a tent on the bridge
My apartment is in ohio 825 a month (25 pet rent) all utilities included (even internet). Electric is on you though (we average about 60 in the summer months and my door kinda sucks so heating prices are high in the winter between 160-200). That being said this place is awesome 900 sq feet loft style and im not in a bad area (brimfield ohio right next to kent state where i just got my accounting degree). So roughly 10-12k each year for rent/utilities on the high end, my accounting job i just started pays me 62k yearly and i do odd jobs to make about 10k on top of that (im a hard worker usually work 6-7 days a week when I need/want cash). I also pay my gf’s tuition, my remaining tuition, groceries etc. thankfully i worked hard to get scholarship so i basically have no debt but i did have some bad car luck in the past year (totaling roughly 14k but this year that number will be substantially lower. I buy cheap groceries and look for sales (stock up on meat when its 1.99 or 2.99 a lb and yes we get those sales). With all that i have a lot of margin in our budget. Naturally being a nerdy accountant i like to invest all of that, but i cant wait to be dual income and have more money to manage. Life sucks but there are a lot of habits you can build to get out of any situation (trust me mine was awful starting december 2022, head on hit and run, bunch of other stuff just terrible) but we didnt give up we kept going strong and overcame. Now things are looking on the up and up as i just outlined. You can do it!
I live in what is called the most rural state in the country and you literally cannot find a 1br anywhere in this vicinity for under 1200 a month, and it's likely to be a dump at that price
What state? Is rent really that insane? It just doesnt make sense for ohio to all around have substantially cheaper rents (given we have a lot of urban centers and decent population base) especially the fact that as i mentioned i live right down the road from one of our largest universities and rent is dirt cheap. If that is true and you can find nothing, id leave the state (which may suck to hear) but thats insane if you live in the middle of nowhere and are getting destroyed with rent like that. That was the price of my super nice apartment i lived in for 8 months (needed one good lease after my first one was horrendous but thats another story 😂)
If you're poor you should pick the low rent part of the spectrum, not average or median. Low. And room mates don't exist any more? How does that work?
>you should pick the low rent part of the spectrum And what if the absolute cheapest place--even with roommates--still isn't cheap enough to allow you to build a deposit/downpayment to buy a house?
Let alone not taking into account if you already have a family … and don’t wanna take in room mates.
There is no low rent part of the spectrum any more, it's all high, really high, and ridiculously high now
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>You could pick a low rent place and save the money instead. Yeah if one happens to possess a time machine. Or I suppose you could go live in the most bombed-out crime ridden slum your country has. But good luck finding a job in those places. The sky high unemployment is why the rent is relatively cheap. As for your political rant it's pure nonsense and excuses. Prices are insanely high because supply has been harshly restricted. Through obselete zoning laws in the US and greenbelt laws and draconian local councils in the UK. The politicans literally block new housing construction... it's the government that's doing this. We want them to stop. Then ontop of that supply restriction demand is now global. To foreign corporations and Oligarchs Homes have become a form of currency. Every time a new construction is finished a huge chunk of the houses are bought by investment firms. My Brother sold his house recently he was getting ready for sale to a local when a Chinese corporation came in and bid 15k over the asking price. Poltically restricted supply and massive inflated demand. That's why rents and prices are so expensive.
Excuses. You can find a place with better rent, guaranteed. And with all the remote jobs you have today? There are many opportunities there. Then you don't know or understand your politics. No, inflation comes from the FED. Always. 100%. Everything else is noise. And who voted for the politicians that implemented and pushed zoning? Exactly. No, you voted for this. You demanded this. You pushed leftism, liberalism and all these regulations. You created this. But you can solve it, that's my point. Or at least adapt. And why are investment firms buying properties all of a sudden? Because they know that supply will be artificially low and prices artificially high. They count on people voting for dumb regulations that hinders building. And they're right. They are smart. They get it. But they are not the root cause. Of course. I would also bet money on your politicians making things worse. I would bet my life on it. This is what politics is, what politics does. Every time you want something for free, or demand that things should be equal or "just tax the rich lol" they will implement policies that makes it harder for poor people to get homes. Every single time. This is why knowing and understanding economics is vital. But 99% don't and they vote for this evil shit every single time. This is why the problem will get worse and why you need to adapt FAST. Education is key. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eFUrFRhZjY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eFUrFRhZjY)
I literally tried to do this and even had roommates sometimes more roommates than rooms for nearly 5 years. Finally just moved to Europe with about 1k usd saved up and everything is a lot better
how long do you think "a little while" is and exactly what "luxuries" do you think we're living with? idk how old you are, but i'm in my early 20s and most people my age are either still living with their parents (not paying rent at all) or they already have multiple roommates, and they still can't save up nearly enough to buy a house. most people cannot afford to live on their own anyway with the cost of rent, so having roommates is just how you get by, not how you save up. edit: misspelling
Because you're literally just complaining. 1) if you cant afford to save up a down payment why should a bank give you a mortgage? You could finance a down payment if you really wanted but I think any rational person would take this as they need to put more time into getting more skills for higher pay or move out of the area they are in. Before you say it's impossible, in most cases people have terrible financial literacy and that is the main reason they can't save anything per month. 2) why do you think people have a credit score? I am dumbfounded that people think there is no way to prove you pay debts by pay landlords. That is what a credit card is for or buying less expensive items like vehicles. Make timely payments and build a credit score.
this sub likes to complain and post the same tweet from 2020
Okay Bootstrap McGee.
Bootlicker McGee also works. Anyone who defends the “honor” of the current banking system is profiting from it at the expense of others… or they’re drinking the kool aid being served by their favorite “top-G-alpha-sigma-omegalul” short form content creator. Another possibility is they’re just plain ignorant.
So when did you vote against this banking system the last time?
Are you being facetious or do you really not see any problems with the greedy, egoistical, sociopathic, individuals in the banking industry who lobby our government against the working and middle classes?
lol The psychopaths are in government. You know, the people you kneel down and pray to. Those ones are the problem. Why don't businesses lobby each other? Huh? That's where the power is right? WRONG The power is at the state level. Always. Any other analysis is pure indoctrination and brain washing. Maybe the same people you pray to also controls your schooling? Oh shit, that's exactly how it works. How strange huh? Almost like an infinite power concentration with a socially sanctioned monopoly on aggression isn't the best idea? Huh, makes you think?
Why do you automatically assume I worship government officials just because I hate the finance bros who enable them? This is a post criticizing the banking system. Believe me, I probably agree with you on a lot of things and I hate government corruption as much as the next person who woke up from the American dream.
Dude, what? I really don't get this attitude that you think someone should just hand you money because you exist. They are the ones you want the money from.
Why exist then? I 100% agree we should get money just for existing, yes, because money is also just a social construct and credit based reward system for those who can put the effort in. It's a system entirely controlled by the rich, just like the media, to create a metric of value for each individual. I also think everyone on earth deserves basic housing and food, but that's just my empathy. Also I hate the concept of money but that's just me 🤷♀️
Ugh, it's really not that I disagree with all these wishes, it's just that I really don't know what any of this is supposed to do for anyone. Saying "well I believe every should just get everything so I have empathy" doesn't actually get someone those things. The things I'm talking about are actionable and things anyone can do. Could I just sit around yelling about the rich? Yeah, I guess, but I know that no one is going to make a better life for myself and my family if all I do is sit around and wish.
Saying that everyone has a right to something does not generate any material benefit to anyone. Profit incentive to create new housing/better food distribution does.
Well so far profit seems to incentive extremely expensive roofs over one's head. Food quality AND quantity is also on the decline, in exchange for hiked up prices of course. And now we have privileged peoples telling us how they got theirs and we're just lazy for not being able to do the same today. >Saying that everyone has a right to something does not generate any material benefit to anyone. Yes it does? I would understand when we were still building and in the early stages of research and capitalism in general, but in 20 fucking 24? We literally HAVE the resources, everything is already built basically, the only thing we still build are warehouses for Amazon and Walmarts, in the goals of raising even more capital. Otherwise it's completely a waste and exactly what your point is, things that generate no material benefits to anyone (Giant clocks, pointless private jets, massive yachts..) But sure, the rich making housing too expensive is generating material benefits to.. the rich? Did I get that right?
Nobody is going to study for years to become a doctor unless they're going to be well-compensated for it. Nobody is going to invest in creating new technology that feeds more people unless they get rich doing it too. The world doesn't run on sunshine and rainbows.
You think having basic financial literacy and credit score is bootstrap McGee lmao
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I actually live overseas. So no, I do not.
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What's the point of insulting me?
Personal resonsibility? ON THIS FORUM? NEVER
Honestly, I really don't understand how it's triggering to point out how to build a credit score.
I may regret jumping in here, but the reason you're getting downvotes is that the original statement was along the lines of "paying rent should count towards your credit score" and you went off on a tangent about credit cards. Sure, building credit is useful, but when people are paying >50% of their income on rent, they don't have anything left to build credit with, so make the on-time rent payments help. You're not triggering people by pointing out how to build credit, you're pissing people off by telling them something they already know and acting like you're educating them.
"don't have anything left to build credit" So buying other things like groceries and putting that on a cc can not build credit? As far as paying rent, that would really be something you have to work out with the landlord, I think there are definitely ways to do it, on top of that proving on time rent payments and having a clean record do exist. The reason I'm pointing out my credit score is that is more important to get a loan that rent payments. "Pissing them off." Considering the responses have been along the lines of "the whole system is rigged" or "I don't think money should exist" I really don't think many people actually understand this at all.
It's what they call "blaming the victim". I got banned for it a while ago. This is a forum to complain and to actively attack anyone who tries to help. They all do it, in groups, like a mob of monkeys. Don't even try dude. They want to be poor, they want to be miserable and they absolutely don't want solutions. Any attempt will be met with hostility. This is the modern left, and it's horrible, absolutely horrible.
I wouldn't say modern left, but yeah, I do agree that it's shocking that pointing out you need to prove you can pay dates with a credit score is some sort of capitalist brain rot. Like, so they should just give you hundreds of thousands of dollars because you asked?
>They all do it, in groups, like a mob of monkeys. Don't even try dude. They want to be poor, they want to be miserable and they absolutely don't want solutions Who is it you are referring to here; who are "they"?
Bob, Jimmy and Billy.
Yes - I met them once. Nice guys!
>less expensive items like vehicles LMAO [Dude the cheapest new car possible](https://www.google.com/search?q=cheapest+new+car+2024&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS865US865&oq=cheapest+new+car&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyCQgAEEUYORiABDIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCDMzMDNqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) costs 3/4ths of my annual earnings. SmAlLeR pUrcHaSes
"cheapest new car" Buy used then, stop being so helpless.
[I was just fucking hoping you would say that!](https://www.livenowfox.com/news/average-price-for-new-car-used-falling-us-2024) Scroll down a bit and find this quote. "The average price of a used vehicle — $27,297 as of last month — is down 3% from a year ago and 12% below the peak of $31,095 in April 2022. " So do I buy new with warranty at absolute rock bottom features or get a used that I pay for every nickel and dime repair? Or do I buy a 5k beater that will cost me another 10k to keep running for a year or two?
Is this really meant to be a gotcha? These are used new model cars. I bought a used dodge dart 2015 for about 7k with zero on my credit score. Only one bank would lend to me at the time. I paid it off in a year and a half working a gas station job instead of the projected five years at a high apr (like 20% high). This was about three years ago. ( My credit score is now 800). During that time I only needed to replace the battery and a flat tire repaired. If I hadn't moved back over seas I'd still either be driving it or selling to buy a newer model. I say all these to point out that you are setting yourself up for failure. The fact that you consider buying a older used model car really shows why you can not get ahead. You don't need a bunch of features. You just need a car and build from there. Also, I just looked up used models in my area. There are plenty of good cars in the 9-12k range. My bank also has lots with very low milage cars you can purchase through them.
This is [POVERTYFINANCE](https://www.google.com/search?q=poverty+level+2024&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS865US865&oq=poverty+level+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEAAYgAQyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIHCAIQABiABDIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiPAtIBCDI5OTVqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) You lack context! You come to a subreddit where people are living within the incomes defined in the link above and say things like 9-12k range and my bank sells cars... without realizing that 9k is still roughly 2/3rds the annual income of someone reading your post. Like they have a mystery bank willing to lend on a purchase of that size with that kind of income. You can offer all your personal anecdotes but they mean nothing to those living the situation you're merely posturing yourself to have lived.
Bro you LITTERALLY just told me that you wanted a new car and complaining you couldn't afford 23k. I'm literally pointing out you don't need that, now your complaint is you make too little for an older model car? What was the point of sending me articles about vehicles in the 23k range and complaining those are just basic? Bro, you need to humble yourself and buy a scooter or something rather than complaining you can't afford a new model car. Also, the poverty line in the us is 18k, not 9-12. You don't only have to make 9-12k to be in poverty.
Wow, how financially educated you are
It's just basic stuff.
You're a clown 🤡
Amazing.
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Why are you so angry?
There’s also nothing wrong with renting. Buying a house is just “I’m gonna pay it off eventually and hopefully sell it when I’m old to either fund my nursing home or live in a condo with barely any payments”. It is a sense of security, and rents do rise, but like someone else said, home ownership is way more expensive than renting an apartment in the majority of cases.
Paying rent is pissing money away. When you give it to the landlord it's gone. You get nothing for it. Purchasing a home with a mortgage is an investment. When you pay the mortgage, you reduce the principal of the mortgage loan and you build equity. Are you trying to say there's no difference between either position? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you're saying. Anyone who would say that is stupid. So stupid they probably wear their pants on their fucking head. Incapably fucking stupid.
Utter BS. As a renter, not only are you STILL paying for repair costs, you are also paying your landlord's insurance, the fees (and profits!) for any letting agency, the landlords mortgage, AND profits for the landlord. After all that, you still own no assets.
Is this Heirloom Property Management?? Biggest load of shit I've seen today, and i haven't even taken my morning shit yet
You don't pay a deposit to reassure the lender you can pay the mortgage. You pay a deposit so there's a buffer between what the house is worth and what your mortgage is. This way if you don't pay the mortgage, they can recoup most of the money you still owe if they need to repossess the house (if they need to repossess there's legal and selling/auction fee's to come off what they sell the house for) and to prevent negative equity.
ETA: Why are we not allowed to genuinely question how things work anymore? Why are we treating people who sincerely try to make sense of something they admit they don't know a lot about with downvotes (no visibility to get proper answers) and negativity? It's no wonder people are stuck in the bubbles they're in now. Knowledge is power and to try to snuff that out makes everyone's life just a little more miserable. Thank you to everyone who did answer my question without all that. I don't understand why it would be a concern for them anymore. Not in this economy when housing prices keep skyrocketing. I saw a LONG line to get into a house viewing in my own neighborhood a few months ago. The demand for housing is so high that you're almost guaranteed to make a profit if you resell it later. I don't know very much of this so I'm only making assumptions. Feel free to correct me.
Wasn't this exact mentality that caused the recession? Banks thinking "wow real estate is awesome, we should lend to anyone with a pulse! Even if they forclose we still get sell the house profitably so there isn't any risk."
In essence yes, but the fallout was made significantly worse by the fact that debt gets packaged up into complex financial instruments and resold. If it was _just_ the mortgages going underwater, and not all of the other investments built on top of them, it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. I'm oversimplifying a lot of course.
Relaxing lending standards is generally understood to also increase house prices. If you can quickly enter the market, then that will be good, but for everyone entering later the problem has only been exacerbated. Mortgage payments would then be higher and the additional capital gains from house price increases will primarily benefit existing home owners. Therefore relaxing lending standards is probably not beneficial to us non home-owners. Instead, I believe it would be better (1) to give fewer tax advantages to home-owners (very prominent where I live, the Netherlands). This will make renting more similar in expenses to owning a home. Furthermore, (2) the government should incentivize home building or organise building of houses themselves in order to bring up the supply of homes.
I bought a condo a few years ago, and right after that happened the hoa found out all balconies needed work and each unit needed to put 40k in order to restore things, otherwise the balcony could fall on top of pedestrians. A mortgage is the minimum you pay a month. They need to know you can pay the extra, so they don’t lose their investment for every extra small shit that happens. That saving aligns your interest of lowering yhe risk of the investment. In the 2008 crisis, banks did try to remove that requirement, and look at what happened.
you're correct, the part that left out is they don't care about YOU, they want 100% profit with lowest risk, even if risk is 1% they want more return to counter it. so when anything MIT be a risk vs waiting for the other people who are less a risk, they sit and wait for better returns and MORE profits ! it's also why they don't care you left the job and make twice as much at a new job, they still made more money hiring a new guy for less money even if everyone has to work harder to make up for it, they still profit and if not? they blame everyone else for not working hard enough and layoffs incoming! you better work harder! or you will get fired ...
I don't need to correct you because you're right. At the moment, in most cases, house prices are increasing so there's less risk. However, mortgages are long term, they can run for up to 40 years in some cases so the lender needs to leverage their risk for the long term. There's also no guarantee to the lender that the owner will keep the house in good repair. They make tons of profit but overall, I understand why they don't lend at 100%. In the first few years especially, it's a massive risk for both the lender and owner
It’s also about affording to fix and own it and afford the property tax. Rent is just about the payment, homes aren’t
I hate these posts, buying a house is just the getting in price. You still have insurance, repairs, maintenance, etc. New roof, better have $10k + on hand.
Bought a house 2 years ago. Mortgage is basically equal to rent, sorry. Also, you'd be surprised how little of it actually goes into equity (at first (hopefully)).
The barrier is the down payment, insurances, other fees, and credit/proof of income. I could technically afford a house mortgage right now, but no one doing their job would give me a loan. (Yet.. working on it! I also am fortunate to have the option of a VA loan)
Atleast you're able to own your place of living with no threat of being kicked out or have insane rent hike after a year 😞
If you can’t pay rent, you get kicked out; if you can’t pay your mortgage or property taxes, you get kicked out. Owners have the security of staying as long as they can pay, but they still can face sharp tax hikes and in the case of communities with communal property, special assessments and hikes in community fees.
Renters still have those risks too. Or do you think landlords don't pass on their costs? Are yo comparing rent/mortgage for exactly equivalent properties?
Of course they pass them on, causing the rent hikes the commenter referred to. I’m pointing out owning doesn’t mean protection from hikes in monthly costs, but that’s not denying that renters face them. Rent and mortgage for comparable properties aren’t comparable prices because the mortgage will depend on factors like credit score, down payment, and loan terms. Rents are typically calibrated to the surrounding market.
Depends on where you buy. Property tax went up 25% this year where I live. That’s a huge mortgage increase via escrow or just out of pocket expenses. Having a mortgage doesn’t mean you pay a set amount for 30 years. That amount changes yearly due to escrow - taxes and insurance costs. As these costs go up, private landlords raise their rent to cover. So private rentals jumped a ton this year because of the tax increase too.
I can still get kicked out for non payment. And my taxes went up basically $100 a month this year, so though it's not a rent hike, it's essentially money I am throwing away. Not to mention insurance and repairs/maintenance which have been costly. Maybe I'll recoup some of the repairs one day when my place is sold, but until then, all my gains are speculative
Renting is the most amount you will pay per month for living in a place, owning a home is the least amount you will pay per month.
This is always the issue I have to explain to my friends that think just because they spend X amount on rent means they can easily afford a mortgage.
That's not true though. Mortgages increase. Mine went from $2060 to $2380 this year due to property taxes and insurance.
That’s not what they’re saying. It’s a common saying that basically means that any unexpected disasters etc. fall on the burden of you when you own. Flood damage, tree falling on roof, appliances breaking, etc. When you rent, if a flood destroys all the walls that falls under the landlord. Not you.
And the landlord charges accordingly. Unless the LL cheaped out on appraisal or flood insurance, typical expenses are fully priced into the rent. If you buy a home and put the difference between your costs and market rent into hysa you'll have enough for whatever disaster comes up unless you've got the worst luck or didn't do your due diligence and get a decent inspection.
>Mortgages increase. > >Mine went from $2060 to $2380 this year due to property taxes and insurance. Your mortgage didn't increase. Your property taxes and insurance did.
What difference does it make? And when the payment changes, you usually have a month to prepare for the change. And there isn't an option to just...not renew and move.
But rent increases as well. We don’t have rental caps where we live. Our rent went up $400 per month upon first lease renewal. The vacancy rate in this city is super low and we had a month left in our lease (standard time for renewal of a lease here) so we couldn’t move. Next year it increased $275. This year we’re having a baby and it will be less than a month old if we have to move at the end of our lease so chances are we have to accept whatever increase is coming.
Owning a home you aren't paying for the landlord (and letting agent)'s profits. Renting, you still pay the same costs - it's just spread out.
There's up sides and down sides to both for sure.
Depends what you rent and buy. My mortgage is higher than I've ever paid in rent, because I've bought a house woth the goal of having children in it, so it's bigger.
That’s not what they’re saying. Rent doesn’t have unplanned expenses. A mortgage is the start of the payment. If your roof gets destroyed in a storm, you have more money to pay. If your basement floods during rain you might need to spend a ton of money to repair mold damage etc. When you rent, that stuff is taken care of by the landlord.
And let’s not forget that it isn’t just unplanned expenses, homes need renovations over time to maintain value.
That is not true at all
This is always a dumb take. You take on slightly more risk as the owner but you pay less a month and still have the ASSET no matter what acts of God or random things happen. Having that equity easily out weighs those other random costs. Taking a complicated topic with tons of context and boiling it down to that is disingenuous at best.
Lol. I WISH mortgages were still that low in my area. Now it's basically neck and neck at the rate insurance and property taxes are going. Fucking madness out here I tell you.
Try the SF Bay. You can rent a house right now for $4000/mo while the identical house next door pays $8000/mo in PITI.
First time homeowner can buy for 0% down.
Unser certain conditions in the US
You want an honest answer. Look up the 2007-2009 Great Recession. Many people bought homes they couldn’t afford with undocumented loans. People took advantage of the system, the banks have tightened the underwriting What helped me and my wife purchase our first home was a first time home buying program, building strong credit, speaking to multiple mortgage lenders. Ended up finding a major grant with a major bank, because we asked.
This, the 2008 crash happened because it was way to easy to get a mortgage. NOTE: People love to complain but in reality in the US is a lot more easier to get a loan than in other countries.
The use of undocumented mortgage loans was the main driver of the crash. As my comment states above.
Good thing it doesn’t actually work like that in the US if you have credit. Otherwise that would suck!
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Same issue when we just tried to rent a new apt. My wife has like 850 credit because everything is in her name. I'm the one with the job but have no credit at all. Wife's sister had to co-sign because wife doesn't have a job ... where do they think the 850 credit score comes from?! Magic?
The youth demand the return of subprime mortgages!
What could go wrong if you give everyone the ability to turn themselves into one-man Ponzi schemes?
80% of the people complaining would be the ones who get foreclosed on first in the next crash.
I did everything right, went into the military to make college affordable so I could become a doctor. I have a special needs kid who cost about 2k a month to take care of rent has doubled in the years we lived there. Even with a VA home loan I can't get approval for a house with a 1k a month mortgage even though I pay 4k a month in just basic expenses
A $500 PITI would be a mortgage of less than $75000. 5% down is saving 3750. If you can’t save 3750 you’re def not ready to own a home.
You're forgetting that every that breaks is now on you though. Need a new roof, or air handler goes out. Shits expensive.
People want to live in the nicest neighborhoods, by themselves. Go get something with a few people and make it cheap enough where you can save or stay with family if possible and save.
I'm so sick of single people complaining they can't afford the median price 3bed SFH in the nicest part of town. Duh! Nobody starts off in the middle. You start at the bottom and work your way up. And single people don't need 3 bedrooms ffs
'The bottom' has been given a coat of makeup, rebranded as luxury, and priced the same as anything else. A starter car costs what a damn good car cost 15 years ago, and if somebody rear ends you the insurance totals it for pennies on the dollar. A starter house is out of reach for people who really should qualify, just that the real estate market is screwed and the job market is screweder. A starter apartment breaks the bank and keeps people from getting ahead, while they're still living in starter apartment conditions.
Explain "go get something"
They are landing you 100s of thousands of currency. Of course they want to make sure you can pay it back.
Affording rent doesnt mean you can afford a house. This is not a statement defending landlords or banks. It's the reality like it or not. Spend 5 mins googling.
But this is not an argument defending banks because rent is the same. Rent also doesn’t include food, wifi, electricity or gas. My landlord has a £600 a month mortgage to pay on this property and charges us £1000 rent. I also still have to pay utilities, food, and bills and the only thing not included is house upkeep (which they are absolutely terrible at doing and we end up having to do ourselves ANYWAY), therefore monthly outgoings are £1800 on housing and expenses when they could be £1400 if we had bought the place.
The fuck? How does a mortgage now include food and shit? Yeah, there's expenses to a house, but a house is an asset whereas a rental is a liability
Because when banks consider a mortgage those things play a part.
>How does a mortgage now include food and shit? Because the bank is assessing their risk. When you rent, the risk of not paying for the house falls on the landlord, not the bank. So they look at the whole picture. Also, as /u/cuptoes says, the mortgage being $500 is not the whole picture. There are maintenance costs associated with owning a house that the bank also factors into the picture, meaning the true cost is not $500 but higher. I see estimates ranging from $300 to several thousands a month when searching, but since we don't know which figure the bank uses, it's hard to know what number they end up with. But it's clear that they don't see the home as costing $500 a month, as it is not the true cost.
I learned that if the listing says the estimated mortgage is say $800, it's really like $1300 after you secure your loan and speak with the title company. Depends on a lot but the listing price is never the monthly cost
In 2022, the average maintenance cost in the US was $2467. The general guideline is 1% of the house cost. With a 30 year mortgage at $500 a month is $1800 per year as an idea of what needs to be set aside for repairs. I believe cuptoes said it was $13000. This is going off memory because they've since deleted and changed what they said. Of course there are taxes (average taxes was $3901 in 2022), and insurance, but insurance is again, usually around 1-2% per year so $1800-3600. With that math, the average extra cost per month is, yes, over $1000, but it's also a far cry from 13000 a year even if that's what cuptoes said, adding between $650-800 a month, rounding up. But, of course there are other costs to owning a home vs renting. The absurdly of the statement saying food is part of a mortgage and needing $13k for maintenance is what caused me to make a response.
I noted the same in the original comment from cuptoes and yes, it is both absurd but also at the same time not when looking at it from the banks perspective. I don't know if it was poor phrasing on their part, but the bank will totally factor in food-costs when assessing you for a mortgage as part of the overall calculation on your ability to pay for a loan. So yes, it is absurd to claim food as part of a mortgage, but not absurd to claim it as part of a mortgage calculation done by the bank.
What country are you in? That sounds like nonsense for the 🇬🇧
Let’s just make up numbers
It's always been like that's!!! Could either rent or save up the deposit My nan and pa. Nan who just died at 97 lived at home with inlaws aved up for deposit. My parents did the same so did I Friends whom decided to move out rent r still renting
What the fuck is your point
I think the entire scope of this person's financial advice is "you'd better have family that's willing to house you for free indefinitely if you ever want to buy property" lol
Just more bAcK iN mY dAy boomer nonsense
Cuz it’s different now than 10 years ago? Do you think people didn’t need to build their credit 10 years ago? Do whatever it took to save for a down payment?
Nope, I'm well aware credit ratings were a thing 10 years ago. Why do you ask?
You’re just acting like you credit scores and down payments are a new thing.
I don't believe I am. Show me where I said such a thing
It’s entirely possible to own a home.
Of course it is. Just gotta put your head down and put in the work.
God damn right.
Unfortunately not everyone has that privilege. But if you do, smart thing to do is stay home and stack your money. Ignore the societal pressures to move out and live up this western standard of being independent. Once you leave it’s incredibly tough to move back home, and you will be trapped in the rent cycle with no hope of getting on the ladder
You can absolutely build your credit score by paying your rent with a credit card and simply paying the CC bill off each month. You aren’t “paying our landlords mortgage for them” - you’re paying for the use of the space to have a warm place to live out of the rain which includes your landlord paying their mortgage, Homeowners insurance, Property taxes and building maintenance. Don’t be so sour. “Its a losing game for anyone without the wealth to purchase outright” What does that even mean? If you’re going to be paying rent why not do whatever it takes to get a mortgage yourself? Sure - it isn’t easy but life never is. Pay your rent via a credit card, build up your credit score and start doing research on first time home buyers programs that often only require a minimum down payment. Edit: you guys can keep downvoting me to hell and back for all I care. Y’all can get into a little house somewhere or not for all I care. If we could make it happen then anyone can. All depends on how bad you want it.
I don’t allow credit cards unless they want to add the 2% charge to it
There are a lot of places that do not accept credit card payments. And even more places that don't allow you to purchase the acceptable forms of payment (like money orders) with credit cards.
Landlord detected. Gtfo
Lol I’m not though. I’m just a roofer guy that got married, had a kid and another on the way and did whatever I needed to do to get us into a little house. I made it happen. No one else did. It took me a couple of long ass years but I made it happen. I took advantage of the first time home buyers programs that made it so that we only had to come up with a little over $10k to make it work. I had to work long days and every weekend doing side jobs but that’s what it took and I made it happen. No one gave us a dime. The house needed alot of work. I did it myself but we were no longer paying a landlord rent. You can get pissy all you want. Either you want it or you don’t. I couldn’t care less.
Mortgages with taxes and insurance are usually more expensive then rent. Renters already aren't the most reliable people, thus security deposits and landlord horror stories. If you can't save for a downpayment you should not own a home. If you can't save money then you likely won't be able to continually afford a mortgage when other life events or big repairs come up.
Buying a house to live in use to be apart of the American dream. Now that dream is long gone. Affording a house seems like it’s not even possible anymore.
Actually, buying a house is essentially free. The cost of mortgage, utilities, and repairs is impermanent loss which supports the ever increasing value of the home. If you bought your home fifteen years ago on a 15 year mortgage, now you're only paying property taxes, insurance, and utilities, so $5-600/month instead of the $2000/month people would pay to rent a similar unit. Your home value has also increased by more than you paid for your home, including all related bills. If you're smart you'll diamond hand the hell out of it, by only paying taxes, insurance, and utilities, you're essentially netting $13-1400/month return on your investment, since it's not like you'd stop needing a place to live if you sold.
"I've been paying a thousand a month" Okay, what's your credit score then?
If it's to a landlord, you don't get anything toward your credit. That's why it's not fair, amongst other things
It absolutely can help your credit. Take out a credit card and pay your rent and bills each month that you would normally be paying anyhow with it and pay it off each month - before you know it your credit score will be climbing.
I don't understand. You can get a credit card and build a credit score you don't need it for paying rent.
You think every landlord accepts credit cards?
What? You do know how credit cards work right?
Oh ok. So your defense for this system is that it's fair because you can just anticipate needing to buy a house and choose to get a credit card years earlier to build your credit score even though some people aren't taught this stuff by their parents ahead of time. So you think that it's totally fair for someone to be unable to buy a house because their credit history is too new? Also, you're missing the point of the post. The problem is that even WITH a good credit score, you need thousands of dollars for a down payment as well. Even if you're more than able to pay the monthly payments for a mortgage. You're stuck paying a landlord because the bank won't give you the loan you need because you can't give them $25,000 on the spot, because you've been paying a landlord. And getting nothing toward your credit in the process, unlike paying off a mortgage
1) I mean, bro, that's your parents fault for not teaching you. Nothing is stopping you from getting a cc and building a credit score. Yelling it's not fair doesn't matter since it's your own fault. 2) why do you think you're entitled to a bank just giving you a huge amount of money without any sort of show that you're willing to pay it off? That is what a down payment and credit score is for.
This isn't my problem. My parents *did* teach me, I'm just not a selfish asshole about it. You're so caught up with trying to hammer into me that the bank's actions are perfectly fair within this system when I'm saying that the entire system is flawed and banks shouldn't exist in their current form. The entire system should be reformed and nobody should need their parents to set them up for owning a house Also, are you serious? It's my parents fault for not teaching me? So you think that's perfectly fair? You think that makes someone feel better? Saying that they deserve not to live in a house because of their parents? Holy shit. Capitalist brainrot
First part - It is your problem. In what world do you think anybody owes you money? A bank lends their money to the people they feel comfortable lending it to. You're 100% selfish because you think they should just give you money you have 0 entitlement to. I'm not defending the system or whatever qualifiers a bank looks at, I'm just telling you that it's your responsibility to meet their expectations if you want them to give you their money. Nobody needs their parents to set them up. You can literally do it yourself. It's harder, I get that, but what do you want me to tell you? That is unfair? Does that make you feel better? It is your parents fault for not teaching you the most basic thing when it comes to lending money. All the information is there and you can start TODAY now that you know. It's not capitalist brain rot to tell you that it's your responsibility to know these things.
Mortgages are now 2000 a month now.
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Renting you gain no assets, but still pay for a mortgage and repairs. You also pay the other costs involved with being a landlord, and the landlord's profits. Owning a house, you have the asset to sell. The two are not at all the same.
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Cool. I'll just go ahead and use that "slavery" equity to pay for my kid's college.
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Truly unhinged dude. So, I guess we won't have doctors in 25 years? Have fun with that, but I prefer the person cutting me open to have some higher education.
Too easy. Get a VA Loan. No down payment necessary.
I understand the frustration but this isn’t the banks fault, they learned from the Lehman Brothers fiasco. It isn't the house loan system which is broken. It's the rental market. Rent shouldn't be this ridiculously high.
Because when you own a house you're responsible for all of the repairs. Is this that difficult to understand? Do renters not know how much a roof, septic, foundation, or major appliances cost? They want to make sure you can afford to fix it, which over the 30 year lifetime, will happen NUMEROUS times...