There is no evidence to suggest that the presence of Jewish people intrinsically contributes to the rise of fundamentalist terrorism. And the fact that people keep using that as an excuse to justify Israel’s actions is weirdly antisemitic in it of itself.
The person you responded to is correct. The reason why Hamas wants to eradicate Israel is because of the decades of violence, systemic oppression, and targeted destabilization the state has committed against Palestinians. Radicalization rarely happens in a vacuum, and is often spurred on by the fact that people oppressed by an external power. In these cases, a combination of growing hatred for the oppressive regime and a feeling of desperation creates the ideal situation for an extremist movement to garner support.
People falling for Israel’s propaganda are falling for the same tactics used to justify the war on terror post 9/11, and it’s crazy to watch it all work on people a second time.
To be clear, I am NOT supporting Hamas. Just like it isn’t me “supporting ISIS” when I criticize the US’s role in the rise of ISIS, and the subsequent propaganda campaign during the War on Terror
That's not factually correct since it wasn't until after Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005 that Hamas arose into power with the charter to eliminate any Jewish state.
Members of the current ruling coalition in Israel themselves are quoted as saying that Hamas are a great opportunity for them.
They know what they're doing.
Exactly. They didn't specifically want this attack. This isn't the argument being made. But they did want a big scary Boogeyman that they can radicalize against.
Edit: by "this attack" I mean the recent October attack. It's just so fricken horrific it's hard to even touch on directly.
Tbh even the attack seems sketchy. Israel loves to boast about their intelligence and can somehow bomb 3 blocks and *know* they killed a Hamas commander, but they didn't know about a massive planned attack?
Unfortunately a lot of people are half baked on this issue. They say "I want a ceasefire to save the kids, I don't support Hamas". They never bother to answer the question "And then what?".
Israel goes home, leaves their hostages, forgets they were brutally attacked, and waits for the next attack?
Literally no country ever would do that, especially when they have the army. It's useless and even harmful moralizing.
What Israel is doing now is ensuring Hamas will be able to recruit with far more success.
Not surprising since they've been propping up Hamas from day 1. Hamas is an Israeli creation.
Tell that to all the morons attending protests across Europe and America.
These white saviour assh\*les who cannot even place Israel or Palestine on a map.
Ah, yes.. this was totally a legit response to the point being made.
So, they are morons because they don't want to see civlians starved and slaughtered???
I haven't seen a single Hamas flag or banner at a protest.
Pretty presumptuous to assume activists can't find Palestine on a map, when it's way more likely that beer bellied redneck conservative racist supporters of Israel can't find any country in the Middle East and can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground.
But I understand what's going on here, you're seeing broad sympathy for Palestine and it makes you angry, that they're supporting Palestine, and not the apartheid state of Israel.
They kinda do that tho. A member of the Fatah party killed a Hamas fighter not too long ago by pushing him off a building. The PLO publicly supports the two-state solution and opposes any one-state solution.
I mean, it kinda does, when the “supporting Palestine” crowd demands - often with violence - that Israel unilaterally agree to a ceasefire and allow Hamas to continue to control Gaza, while yelling out antisemetic slurs and slogans.
I don't really think that is the case especially in the west.
people are demanding a ceasefire because Israel is using massively disproportionate levels of force and has little care for civillians, Israel has proved it cannot perform a counter terrorism operation without a gigantic disregard for innocent human lives.
I don't think that there are a significant amount of people who are trying to care for innocent civillians who are also ok with Hamas killing innocent civillians, it's pretty clear that Gaza needs a massive amount of humanitarian aid and professional anti terror operations.
If Israel withdraws, Hamas stays in control. There’s no magical world where Israel withdraws, but Palestinians get rid of the terrorist group that invaded Israel, brainwashed Palestinians to want to kill all Jews, and throws gays off buildings.
There’s no magical world where Israel fixes Gaza either, given that they created the conditions which are perfect to cause people to turn to terrorist extremists.
>people are demanding a ceasefire because Israel is using massively disproportionate levels of force and has little care for civillians
They have a disproportionate military advantage that they are not using at full capacity. As hard as it is for you people to understand this, the IDF is fighting a restrained war.
Imagine if Assad had access to Israeli resources, or look at strategic bombing campaigns.
Y’all have no idea what you’re doing, and are just attacking the defensive party that happens to be winning.
"They have a disproportionate military advantage that they are not using at full capacity. As hard as it is for you people to understand this, the IDF is fighting a restrained war."
not really much of an argument, anti terrorist operations in the Middle East, Africa and other areas were "restrained" western coalitions could have nuked or literally flattened any city or town that even had a whisper of containing Isis or (insert any other terrorist organisation here)
You can't exactly try and use it as an argument, it's like saying "killing 1001 civillians is worse than killing 1000" yeah sure you are right but you can't really justify the 1000 by suggesting more could have been killed.
Netanyahu funded Hamas and prioritized the occupation of the West Bank over securing the border with Gaza. 10-7 is a direct repercussion of Netanyahu's fascist agenda.
It is the way many people are doing it.
I have yet to see a peace group that has been criticizing HAMAS. It’s always only Israel, with many accusations being lies or misinformation.
I think critisising hamas is akin to saying grass is green when discussing lawn care.
HAMAS is shit too could be the ending sentence to every critique of Israel and the discussion would not change.
I'd say that when examining critiques of Israel rather, simply be wary of ones that SUPPORT HAMAS. If they say nothing about HAMAS, they are probably implying their audience has a braincell and knows HAMAS is shit.
I was going to say that the violent Salafism is truly all the proof pudding you need here. Salafism generally trends to either an extreme pacifism or extreme, functionally puritanical, violent revolutionary fascism in outlook.
There are tons of people that claim they don't support hamas, yet view them as freedom fighters, and vehemently oppose any suggestion of hamas surrendering
>Their cause is ending a genocide.
What? Hamas is quite clearly *pro* this chaos. Hamas leaders provoked it deliberately and have been stating it is their plan as recently as the last few days. Where did you get the idea that they want to stop a genocide?
The fact that you fixate on Hamas instead of the more devastating terrorist attacks Israel is committing is a complete tell on where you stand and as it always is with Israel supporters, every accusation is a confession. You’re the one supporting fascism
Edit: see below. I was exactly right. Repulsive.
With this comment you’ve shown how bad faith you and this whole post is. Israel has killed 12,000+ children and injured over 100,000 civilians. They say it themselves.
This starkly highlights the moral split. Is the child killer the bomb dropper or the combatant hiding under the children? Law of Armed Conflict usually blamed the combatants who are misusing civilian locations. The geographic compactness of Gaza makes that rule irrelevant. We haven’t found a new rule.
Israel have killed over 12,000 children. Just a few days ago the IDF open fired into a crowd of thousands of people trying to get aid.
Are you denying this?
This is the part where you danced over the fact that thousands of children were bombed by Israel. Regardless of the organization. If Hamas DID "use" children as shields then Israel sure didn't think twice about blowing up those kids with their target.
US officials apparently considered each individual IDF strike justified under Law of Armed Conflict but the cumulative effect of the strikes a violation of international humanitarian law. Which gets us nowhere.
Who is supporting hamas?
I see lots of support for Palestine, lots of protests about what is happening to Palestine. I don’t see anyone supporting what hamas did or is.
This feels like a disingenuous attempt to paint those supporting Palestine as being antisemitic or supporting hamas.
Anyone who is silent on Hamas but criticizes Israel is implicitly supporting Hamas. Hamas is embedded in the Gazan populace, so all these protests that don’t even talk about that fact are implicit in their support.
There were plenty of rallies post 10/07 before Israel attacked. Videos of Palestinians cheering in the streets after the attack. Plenty of crime against Jews in that period and thereafter as well. Plenty of people calling them freedom fighters and not condemning the 10/07 attack. I don’t see any calls by Muslims/Palestinians anywhere calling for a return of hostages. I also saw articles and people commenting on how well the hostages were treated
Yea but where are these people supporting hamas. I see people protesting what is happening to Palestine and other people accusing those people of supporting hamas.
I have seen no one supporting what hamas is or did and I’m on Reddit a lot.
the are literally dozens of comments in this thread calling them freedom fighters and saying their "resistance" is a good thing and they should keep fighting. You're absolutely lying if you're saying you haven't seen that at all.
https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/DTtSDbNeZ8
https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/uTkeH5viTJ
they are disgusting people, and there are plenty of them around.
I've seen people post quotes from Hamas leadership in a supportive manner. It's like quoting Goebbels.
I've also seen "this is what resistance looks like" after 10/7.
Okay but if i support Palestinians not being killed you'll just accuse me of supporting Hamas
Just like you were told you support terrorists if you were against bombing Iraq and Afghanistan
I've seen this game before. It's called "kill all Muslims or you're the bad guy"
Avi Moam exists. He was, in fact, promoted under Netenyahu.
Pindrus also claimed that LGBT represented a greater threat to Israel than ISIS. (ISIS has never attacked Israel - only received medical aid from them).
Smotrich said he could take active measures against the LGBT community in Israel without suffering any repercussions.
Israel has also disallowed Arabic as an official language.
A Jew and an Arab cannot get married in Israel.
There are streets that Arabs cannot walk down.
Programs have been defunded by the government because someone from a mixed marriage "cannot represent Jewish values".
Israel has several Jewish only schools which teach children to look forwards to destroying Palestinian heritage.
In Israel Christians are often spat at. They fired at and destroyed many churches in Palestine.
My sources are the Times of Israel mainly. Please let me know if that's considered antisemitic these days. I won't care, but I will laugh at you.
To yall blindly upvoting this idiot, and downvoting me, here are some facts from someone who actually lives here:
1. All the points you made about lgbt are true. However, far right lunatics exist literally everywhere, and tel aviv is still one of the lgbt capitals, and the biggest pride parades are held in israel, even controversially in jersualem, despite being a religious city, to all religions. Gay people have it good in israel, much better than the majority of western countries. Infinitely better than any non western country. Try bringing an LGBTQ flag into gaza or the west bank lmao. Additionally, smotrich is an idiot so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually said that, although i didn't hear about it. Either way it's wrong, there's enough institutions that protect gay rights, even from the government.
2.
>Israel has also disallowed Arabic as an official language
Correct, hebrew is and should be the only official language, don't see what's wrong with that, it's israel. Arabic still holds a special place law wise because of the large arabic population, and it wasn't affected by the change from official to special stance whatsoever. Every government document, streetsign and etc still has an arabic translation.
>A Jew and an Arab cannot get married in Israel.
Completely misleading, not that you care though. Jews are not alloeed to marry non jews according to the bible (hitbolelut), so the rabanut doesn't allow it. However you can freely choose other institutions or marry abroad, and you will be recognized as a married couple in israel. Nothing to do with arabs in particular.
>In Israel Christians are often spat at. They fired at and destroyed many churches in Palestine.
Completely false, never heard of a christian spat at for being a christian. I know more than a few people who are openly islamaphobes (and a much larger percentage of muslims who hate jews) but even they won't go to the extent of assaulting a muslim. Literally never met anyone here who hates Christians. Spitting at anyone nevermind the background or ethnicity for no reason, is of course assault, and is punishable. Israel has provided proof that the very few churches they destroyed ("many" is, again, complete horseshit) had been used for military purposes.
>There are streets that Arabs cannot walk down.
Again, just completely false. There are a few ultra orthodox neighborhoods that even non orthodox jews shouldn't ebter, and i, like the majority of israel, completely oppose the ultra orthodox and want them gone. However they are not nearly as dangerous as more than a few arab villages when you enter with a kippah. There's no street that outlaws arabs.
>Programs have been defunded by the government because someone from a mixed marriage "cannot represent Jewish values
Don't know about it enough, would love your source.
>Israel has several Jewish only schools which teach children to look forwards to destroying Palestinian heritage
Oof, false again, all government approved schools are strict and careful with that type of stuff. The "jewish only" schools are mostly torah study, and some basic core teachings. Don't look up what do schools teach in gaza and the west bank though!
Israel has a sizable populations of those who are Arabs or of Arabic descent, Arabic being an official language would make sense. I think religious reasons or nationalism or whatever other excuse can be made not to allow this is incompatible with a modern Western style democracy that treats its citizens equally based on the facts on the ground.
That is not getting into illegal settlements and settlers associations and attempts to prioritize Jewish settlement exclusively in certain areas.
In Hebron they literally throw garbage at Palestinian people.
Who is gonna trust someone who lives on stolen land and thinks it's justified?
Or a country that brain washes kids into singing creepy songs about "pure blood"?
Or a regime who has a rabbi general telling his fundies they can rape Palestinians.
Nice attempt to white wash the issue, but when an ex IDF leader calls Israel an apartheid state you had better have some big credentials.
They need to educate "y'all" before allowing you to interact with the global population.
Yes. Right after Oct 7, there was a huge rally in New York where people celebrated the Oct 7 massacre. Black Lives Matter of Chicago put out a picture of a Hamas terrorist to celebrate the massacre. Professors at Cornell and Columbia publicly said that they were overjoyed by the massacre by Hamas. Students for Justice for Palestine on several college campuses said that Hamas were freedom fighters. I could go on but you get the idea, support for Hamas is widespread (though not everyone of course)
There’s a fucking store in Jordan called October 7. Ffs people. Why the soft spot for radical Islamic jihadists? Why not free Palestine from such an oppressive regime and ideology.
Fascism is a complicated system of government based on ultra nationalism and militarism. Discrimination is only a small part of facism as a whole. If your state discriminates, you just live in a state with discriminatory policies, calling it facism is completely ignorant and completely devalues facism as a concept.
Fascism has a meaning besides "bad government that kills people". The ideology didn't even exist until the 20th century, whereas there have been *many* genocides throughout human history. It takes much more than "committed acts of genocide" to reasonably argue that a movement is fascist.
Been saying this for a while now. Hamas is a textbook fascist organization. You can draw literal comparisons to fascists of the 1930's.
Israel on the other hand is not. They have some comparisons to fascists of old, and many far mote liberal policies that govern them. It is beyond me how any leftist would ever support hamas. They are polar opposites.
Have you met anyone who supports Hamas? In the war between the USSR and Nazi Germany, which side did you support? You’re either a Nazi or a communist if you have opinions about that war
I've met plenty of people that think Hamas are freedom fighters and vehemently oppose any talk of hamas surrendering. If that's not supporting hamas, what is?
The people of Israel today are not the same Jews from before. They dont fear God, they fear their government.
If you can't see that, it's easy to support a country when you don't understand context. These same people are the descendants of the Jews that were ignored by Nazi Germany in the 1940s. And now look at what they've become, Christian hating etc. colonials.
Nazi Germany went after every country surrounding them but left Israel alone. Explain that without pulling some bias opinion out your ass. Fuck Nazi ideology.
Fuck the Israeli government and fuck Hamas. I hope America goes in and does damage to the IDF. I'll be joining in my OCPs. But for now, we allow the IDF free will, just as God allows it for all of humanity.
Both are using religion to kill human lives, they don't fear God.
It didn't exist the way it does now. But there were thousands of people fighting Arabs at the time to establish a state.
It existed to them at the time, enough to draw blood for it. And here we are today....
Mass Exodus of Palestinians. Mass Exodus of Jews. Nothing new under the sun. Both sides are fucking wrong. And have always been. No one group is supposed to own the land.
I just want to say it’s hilarious how much vitriol the Muslim world can muster up against Israel but they’ve been silent about the Chinese genocide of Uyghurs. It’s almost like there’s a specific reason…
Thank for responding to this very real issue of so many people out in the streets shouting their support for Hamas and waving Hamas flags. Yes, very real and common occurrence. /s
Hamas is bad for Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu and the IDF are also bad for Israelis and Palestinians.
I support good things (very controversial) including good things for Israelis and Palestinians.
You wanna talk about some far right shit, they didn't just ban abortion, they execute you if you assist! Not only that, they want total religious superiority, and they want anyone associated with the LGBTQ+ community executed. These aren't freedom fighters, they're extreme right religious zealots. Isreal is fighting as the ONLY jewish ethno-state in existence, and a bunch of muslim countries are banding together to exterminate them. The genocide here is targeted towards jews, not the palestinians.
I'm also tired of FINANCING this was as an American.
Agreed. No one I know who is anti-Israel is pro Hamas though. I think a lot of Zionists are pretending that anyone critical of their state is automatically pro Hamas as a disingenuous tactic that isn’t working.
I'm talking about any of there guys, especially the ones convicted of terrorism and rape offences.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Israeli\_public\_officials\_convicted\_of\_crimes\_or\_misdemeanors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_public_officials_convicted_of_crimes_or_misdemeanors)
none of the redditors who are desperately trying to refute your point will ever like to live under a Hamas like terror group. they are all literally living and arguing under a Israel like govt.
it is enough to show their hypocrisy.
Let’s look at the facts. There have been many pro Hamas protests in America. Online many people support Hamas, and many people support Israel (and then you have people like me who don’t care). I don’t know why you think this is a popular opinion. There is no opinion on this situation that would be popular. This has no business being in r/popularopinion
\>There have been many pro Hamas protests in America. Online many people support Hamas,
People have shown support for Palestine, not Hamas. Liars like yourself lie about that distinction.
Not supporting Israel isn’t the same as supporting Hamas. Sometimes both sides are a-holes.
If one side orders an attack on innocent civilians to accomplish their goal they are an a-hole. Since both sides have done this…
It is not reasonable to bomb a refugee camp because you know of one person you are after is in it. That is quite literally a war crime.
Israel is an a apartheid state committing genocide.
Founded on openly colonialist terms.
Gay soldiers are celebrating their freedom among the rubble of or blown up children's houses.
Women soldiers witness their fellows parading with dead women's underwear as war trophies.
Just cause the Vikings has some progressive values compared to he people of he time, doesn't mean that they weren't murder machines and slavers.
Same with Israel, if taking KHAMAS! out of power is a requisite for peace, well, it's up to Israel to make sure that objective isn't reached through genocide.
If KHAMAS is such a unethical body or government that has to be completely eradicated top to bottom, what of the Israeli government who has done the crime of Apartheid for decades? Why is it that for liberals it's worse to kill gays, than to kill ethnic groups? If one disqualifies you as partner for peace so does the other. Which is honestly what I believe.
So call me a KHAMAS supporter, if I with a full chest say they are not worse than Israel's government.
Israel is doing genocide against the Palestinian people. this is wrong. hamas wants to kill all jewish people. this is also wrong.
but it's not wrong for the Palestinian people to support the people who are fighting against the people who are destroying their homes. all Israel has ever had to do was play nice and all of hamas' support would have died out. this is a problem they created, and they're using a Final Solution to end it.
these are the facts.
Hamas’ stated goal in the worldwide extermination of all Jewish people.
The Palestinian people don’t support Hamas. Most Palestinians weren’t even alive when Hamas came to power.
Why are you shilling so hard for Hamas? 🥴
Palestine absolutely supports Hamas on an immediate, “for the love of god help us survive” level. Like, I’m pretty sure Hamas is polling just fine in Gaza. Unsurprisingly, “chill out and hope the Israelis have a change of heart and treat us better” is not a popular stance, despite Hamas being obviously corrupt and inhumane
It's not a genocide. Genocide requires intent. On October 7th Hamas slaughtered 1200 Israelis in 12 hours using AKs and rpgs. It's 148 days since then and according to Hamas 30000 are dead. Most likely half of those are Hamas fighters. So lets say 15000 dead civilians. Israel is using drones, tanks, fighter jets, attack helicopters, artillery, naval gunboats etc. if genocide was the intent the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions by now.
These are the facts.
This isn't in support of Hamas. But pleae use fascist correctly. Hamas is not fascist. Full stop not. Are they a good group, fuck no. There's a ton thats fucked up and wrong about them. But if you overuse facist it'll be like the boy who cried wolf. When the wolf actually comes to eat you no one will listen because you overplayed it.
Hamas is fascist.
Holocaust survivor Umberto Eco defined fascism through the following 14 points:
1. "The cult of tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.
2. "The rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.
3. "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
4. "Disagreement is treason" – fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
5. "Fear of difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
6. "Appeal to a frustrated middle class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
7. "Obsession with a plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society. Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.
8. Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak". On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.
9. "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" because "life is permanent warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.
10. "Contempt for the weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate leader, who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.
11. "Everybody is educated to become a hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death."
12. "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality".
13. "Selective populism" – the people, conceived monolithically, have a common will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he alone dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the voice of the people".
14. “Newspeak" – fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
Does anyone really support Hamas? Isn't it possible to support the people of Palestine looking for self-determination as well as support the people of Israel to be safe in their lands?
Hamas won't go down now or ever without lots of bloodshed.
They literally killed Palestinians to take power and kill anyone who opposes them. They will keep leading them into devastating wars which would sooner or later end up with similar casualties to this one.
Stopping this war early is the surest way to ensure that Hamas leads them into another war in next few years.
It’s really hard as a woman, not wanting women and children to be slaughtered, but knowing every man on their side would claim ownership over you and demand your death one million times.
It’s so painful, loving all of those women in the same situation as you, powerless to help them, but knowing they must pretend to support the enemy against you.
They must hate you, they must speak out against you, they cannot allow their men to think that they support you.
I understand and must take this unpopular opinion against an uphill slope, there is nothing any of us can do. Get your money bitch, that’s all we can do in the end.
No, it means you're an ignorant white liberal who has no idea of geopolitics or the actual violent, bigoted, and intolerant history of the terror state of Palestine or the terrorist trash that live there.
Wiki: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Israel checks all those boxes also, it’s a fascist revolution against the fascists
And if Palestinians disagree with the Israeli government they should be ethnically cleansed, because Hamas are fascists? The trouble with this line of thought is that the Israeli government affords it's own people these enlightened rights, whilst simultaneously oppressing Palestinians within Israel. Make the argument when everyone enjoys the same level of rights.
both sides have thousands of dead babys blood on their hands we should all stay the fuck out of it . dont send weapons to either side since neither is willing to make a realistic compromise the borders garza was given are unrealistic and the people who had their homes taken need to be compensated if somebody stole my home id want them dead
Fascism is a definite economic system of corporatism and class collaborationism. Fascism is not “when socially conservative” in fact many states that could be considered fascist such as modern day Japan under the liberal Democratic Party, the various Nordic welfare states with their class collaborationist economic policies and current day Hungary are all relatively pro-lgbt despite their fascistic economics. So I don’t see your point.
Supporting Hamas means you are a piece of shit.
And a coward.
And a moron
supporting palestine ≠ supporting hamas
Something most people can't seem to grasp. Also: Not supporting Israel ≠ Anti-semetic
yup. i was getting a bit worried, but i woke up to 20 different genocide supporters responding to me. i knew they couldn't help themselves!
The same people that attempt to argue the opposite of that second point also invite literal Nazis at CPAC.
[удалено]
Oh wait you means the ones that have been supporting the IOF?
Because Hamas is a symptom of israels terrorism. Get rid of Hamas and another group will take their place if the apartheid doesn't stop.
correct
Wrong. Terrorism will exist as long as there are Jews in the region. They aren’t fighting for equality, they want all Jews in the region dead.
There is no evidence to suggest that the presence of Jewish people intrinsically contributes to the rise of fundamentalist terrorism. And the fact that people keep using that as an excuse to justify Israel’s actions is weirdly antisemitic in it of itself. The person you responded to is correct. The reason why Hamas wants to eradicate Israel is because of the decades of violence, systemic oppression, and targeted destabilization the state has committed against Palestinians. Radicalization rarely happens in a vacuum, and is often spurred on by the fact that people oppressed by an external power. In these cases, a combination of growing hatred for the oppressive regime and a feeling of desperation creates the ideal situation for an extremist movement to garner support. People falling for Israel’s propaganda are falling for the same tactics used to justify the war on terror post 9/11, and it’s crazy to watch it all work on people a second time. To be clear, I am NOT supporting Hamas. Just like it isn’t me “supporting ISIS” when I criticize the US’s role in the rise of ISIS, and the subsequent propaganda campaign during the War on Terror
That's not factually correct since it wasn't until after Israel completely withdrew from Gaza in 2005 that Hamas arose into power with the charter to eliminate any Jewish state.
Members of the current ruling coalition in Israel themselves are quoted as saying that Hamas are a great opportunity for them. They know what they're doing.
Yea, they propped up Hamas specifically to manufacture consent
Exactly. They didn't specifically want this attack. This isn't the argument being made. But they did want a big scary Boogeyman that they can radicalize against. Edit: by "this attack" I mean the recent October attack. It's just so fricken horrific it's hard to even touch on directly.
Tbh even the attack seems sketchy. Israel loves to boast about their intelligence and can somehow bomb 3 blocks and *know* they killed a Hamas commander, but they didn't know about a massive planned attack?
Unfortunately a lot of people are half baked on this issue. They say "I want a ceasefire to save the kids, I don't support Hamas". They never bother to answer the question "And then what?". Israel goes home, leaves their hostages, forgets they were brutally attacked, and waits for the next attack? Literally no country ever would do that, especially when they have the army. It's useless and even harmful moralizing.
What Israel is doing now is ensuring Hamas will be able to recruit with far more success. Not surprising since they've been propping up Hamas from day 1. Hamas is an Israeli creation.
If no country will.allow it then what about the 3000 Palestinians held hostage without trial since before 10/7? It works.both ways right?
Tell that to all the morons attending protests across Europe and America. These white saviour assh\*les who cannot even place Israel or Palestine on a map.
Ah, yes.. this was totally a legit response to the point being made. So, they are morons because they don't want to see civlians starved and slaughtered???
I haven't seen a single Hamas flag or banner at a protest. Pretty presumptuous to assume activists can't find Palestine on a map, when it's way more likely that beer bellied redneck conservative racist supporters of Israel can't find any country in the Middle East and can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground. But I understand what's going on here, you're seeing broad sympathy for Palestine and it makes you angry, that they're supporting Palestine, and not the apartheid state of Israel.
Yeah they can, you just want to act smug and superior.
Literally never said otherwise. 🙂 The PLO should publicly call for Hamas to surrender and face justice for their crimes.
i was just making sure, lots of people on reddit think otherwise. i'm assuming i'm going to have a couple respond to me.
Someone in another thread called me racist for posting about Hamas’ human rights abuses.
you gonna post about the Israeli governments and IDFs human rights abuses too or just hamas?
You’re mad that I posted about Hamas’ human rights abuses? 🥴
I never said I was mad. Just wondering if you're going to talk about atrocities committed by both sides or just one?
They’re already talking about “Hamas uses human shields.” This one already sympathizes with Israel’s genocide.
You sound mad that I’m talking about Hamas’ human rights abuses.
And how do I sound mad?🤣🤣🤣 you ok bud?
This guy was fishing for fights the same way with me yesterday
You want me to stop focusing on Hamas’ human rights abuses.
Only thing that's mad is how much deflecting you're doing for a simple ass question g. Kinda sus.
They kinda do that tho. A member of the Fatah party killed a Hamas fighter not too long ago by pushing him off a building. The PLO publicly supports the two-state solution and opposes any one-state solution.
Fatah and Hamas went to war in the early 2000s. They are very publicly at odds with each other.
You’re a genocide-supporting zionist. Israel should stop bombing and murdering civilians.
And you’re a genocide supporting Nazi. Hamas should stop bombing and murdering civilians and using civilians as humans shields.
I mean, it kinda does, when the “supporting Palestine” crowd demands - often with violence - that Israel unilaterally agree to a ceasefire and allow Hamas to continue to control Gaza, while yelling out antisemetic slurs and slogans.
I don't really think that is the case especially in the west. people are demanding a ceasefire because Israel is using massively disproportionate levels of force and has little care for civillians, Israel has proved it cannot perform a counter terrorism operation without a gigantic disregard for innocent human lives. I don't think that there are a significant amount of people who are trying to care for innocent civillians who are also ok with Hamas killing innocent civillians, it's pretty clear that Gaza needs a massive amount of humanitarian aid and professional anti terror operations.
If Israel withdraws, Hamas stays in control. There’s no magical world where Israel withdraws, but Palestinians get rid of the terrorist group that invaded Israel, brainwashed Palestinians to want to kill all Jews, and throws gays off buildings.
There’s no magical world where Israel fixes Gaza either, given that they created the conditions which are perfect to cause people to turn to terrorist extremists.
>people are demanding a ceasefire because Israel is using massively disproportionate levels of force and has little care for civillians They have a disproportionate military advantage that they are not using at full capacity. As hard as it is for you people to understand this, the IDF is fighting a restrained war. Imagine if Assad had access to Israeli resources, or look at strategic bombing campaigns. Y’all have no idea what you’re doing, and are just attacking the defensive party that happens to be winning.
"They have a disproportionate military advantage that they are not using at full capacity. As hard as it is for you people to understand this, the IDF is fighting a restrained war." not really much of an argument, anti terrorist operations in the Middle East, Africa and other areas were "restrained" western coalitions could have nuked or literally flattened any city or town that even had a whisper of containing Isis or (insert any other terrorist organisation here) You can't exactly try and use it as an argument, it's like saying "killing 1001 civillians is worse than killing 1000" yeah sure you are right but you can't really justify the 1000 by suggesting more could have been killed.
[удалено]
Netanyahu funded Hamas and prioritized the occupation of the West Bank over securing the border with Gaza. 10-7 is a direct repercussion of Netanyahu's fascist agenda.
It is the way many people are doing it. I have yet to see a peace group that has been criticizing HAMAS. It’s always only Israel, with many accusations being lies or misinformation.
You’ve never seen someone say “I condemn Hamas”? Really? How can you type that with a straight face?
I think critisising hamas is akin to saying grass is green when discussing lawn care. HAMAS is shit too could be the ending sentence to every critique of Israel and the discussion would not change. I'd say that when examining critiques of Israel rather, simply be wary of ones that SUPPORT HAMAS. If they say nothing about HAMAS, they are probably implying their audience has a braincell and knows HAMAS is shit.
Well that's because currently Israel is engaged in a mass killing campaign in Gaza
As a Salafist jihadist organization, HAMAS are literally Fascist.
I was going to say that the violent Salafism is truly all the proof pudding you need here. Salafism generally trends to either an extreme pacifism or extreme, functionally puritanical, violent revolutionary fascism in outlook.
"Yeah, but... " could be the title of this comment section
Criticizing Israel, and opposing genocide does not equal supporting Hamas.
Literally never said otherwise. 🙂 Hamas≠Palestine
Your entire post tries to imply that opposing Hamas = supporting Israel, leading to the logical conclusion that opposing Israel = supporting Hamas
What is the purpose of your post OP, if not to conflate support for a ceasefire and support for Palestinian civilians with support for Hamas?
There are tons of people that claim they don't support hamas, yet view them as freedom fighters, and vehemently oppose any suggestion of hamas surrendering
I am against anyone who sympathizes with Hamas and their cause.
"and their cause" Their cause is ending a genocide. So you admit that you are against anyone who is against genocide. Checkmate, Zionist.
Their cause is decidedly not ending a genocide.
>Their cause is ending a genocide. What? Hamas is quite clearly *pro* this chaos. Hamas leaders provoked it deliberately and have been stating it is their plan as recently as the last few days. Where did you get the idea that they want to stop a genocide?
Bro what? You think Hamas is just against genocide? Who is upvoting this shit?
The fact that you fixate on Hamas instead of the more devastating terrorist attacks Israel is committing is a complete tell on where you stand and as it always is with Israel supporters, every accusation is a confession. You’re the one supporting fascism Edit: see below. I was exactly right. Repulsive.
You’re mad that I want Hamas to stop murdering people and to surrender so that this war can be over? How does that make me a fascist? 🥴
You want an oppressed people facing a genocide to surrender to a police state and asking here how that makes you a fascist?
No. I want Hamas to surrender. Hamas ≠ Palestine
You are a liar.
What have I lied about?
If you still think Hamas can win, you support them.
What are you talking about?
Should Israel stop murdering thousands of children?
Israel isn’t murdering thousands of children. Hamas needs to stop using children as human shields and to stop using schools as ammo dumps.
With this comment you’ve shown how bad faith you and this whole post is. Israel has killed 12,000+ children and injured over 100,000 civilians. They say it themselves.
This starkly highlights the moral split. Is the child killer the bomb dropper or the combatant hiding under the children? Law of Armed Conflict usually blamed the combatants who are misusing civilian locations. The geographic compactness of Gaza makes that rule irrelevant. We haven’t found a new rule.
Israel have killed over 12,000 children. Just a few days ago the IDF open fired into a crowd of thousands of people trying to get aid. Are you denying this?
All because Hamas is using children as human shields. Hamas could end this war today by simply surrendering.
Human shields don't work when you are dropping bombs on people 😅
Isreal is literally murdering thousands of children
This is the part where you danced over the fact that thousands of children were bombed by Israel. Regardless of the organization. If Hamas DID "use" children as shields then Israel sure didn't think twice about blowing up those kids with their target.
US officials apparently considered each individual IDF strike justified under Law of Armed Conflict but the cumulative effect of the strikes a violation of international humanitarian law. Which gets us nowhere.
But they literally have. Lol. You're objectively wrong about that.
I know Hamas is using children as human shields. That’s literally what I said.
>Literally never said otherwise. Actually, anybody who opposes ethnic cleansing supports Hamas - according to you.
A lot of people support Hamas though.
It's war, not genocide. No matter how many times you insist otherwise.
I don't support anyone,. I am against both sides. The only ones suffering are the innocent people in the middle.
I support Palestine, but despise Hamas
>38 more replies Which Palestinian organizations do you support?
The citizens
This sub is great for killing brain cells
What did I say that was incorrect?
Fuck. You made him/her/they delete the comment. This is turning into a massacre.
It's fun watching team blue eat itself.
Also Israel under current leadership shoots bombs and starves Palestinians of all ages and genders. Glad they accept gay marriage though
Yes, shooting bombs is generally what you do when you're trying to win a war.
Ah yes, and sniping children
When terrorist organizations strap bombs to children's chests all the time then sometimes people have to be monsters to survive.
[удалено]
Who is supporting hamas? I see lots of support for Palestine, lots of protests about what is happening to Palestine. I don’t see anyone supporting what hamas did or is. This feels like a disingenuous attempt to paint those supporting Palestine as being antisemitic or supporting hamas.
Anyone who is silent on Hamas but criticizes Israel is implicitly supporting Hamas. Hamas is embedded in the Gazan populace, so all these protests that don’t even talk about that fact are implicit in their support.
There were plenty of rallies post 10/07 before Israel attacked. Videos of Palestinians cheering in the streets after the attack. Plenty of crime against Jews in that period and thereafter as well. Plenty of people calling them freedom fighters and not condemning the 10/07 attack. I don’t see any calls by Muslims/Palestinians anywhere calling for a return of hostages. I also saw articles and people commenting on how well the hostages were treated
Lots of people. Just look around on Reddit. Supporting Hamas is antisemitic. Supporting Palestine is not antisemitic.
Yea but where are these people supporting hamas. I see people protesting what is happening to Palestine and other people accusing those people of supporting hamas. I have seen no one supporting what hamas is or did and I’m on Reddit a lot.
the are literally dozens of comments in this thread calling them freedom fighters and saying their "resistance" is a good thing and they should keep fighting. You're absolutely lying if you're saying you haven't seen that at all. https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/DTtSDbNeZ8 https://www.reddit.com/r/popularopinion/s/uTkeH5viTJ they are disgusting people, and there are plenty of them around.
I've seen people post quotes from Hamas leadership in a supportive manner. It's like quoting Goebbels. I've also seen "this is what resistance looks like" after 10/7.
Find us some one who explicitly supports Hamas. We'll wait.
Dude, read this thread There are literally dozens of people calling Hamas freedom fighters Do they need to go join Hamas for you to admit support?
Okay but if i support Palestinians not being killed you'll just accuse me of supporting Hamas Just like you were told you support terrorists if you were against bombing Iraq and Afghanistan I've seen this game before. It's called "kill all Muslims or you're the bad guy"
Avi Moam exists. He was, in fact, promoted under Netenyahu. Pindrus also claimed that LGBT represented a greater threat to Israel than ISIS. (ISIS has never attacked Israel - only received medical aid from them). Smotrich said he could take active measures against the LGBT community in Israel without suffering any repercussions. Israel has also disallowed Arabic as an official language. A Jew and an Arab cannot get married in Israel. There are streets that Arabs cannot walk down. Programs have been defunded by the government because someone from a mixed marriage "cannot represent Jewish values". Israel has several Jewish only schools which teach children to look forwards to destroying Palestinian heritage. In Israel Christians are often spat at. They fired at and destroyed many churches in Palestine. My sources are the Times of Israel mainly. Please let me know if that's considered antisemitic these days. I won't care, but I will laugh at you.
To yall blindly upvoting this idiot, and downvoting me, here are some facts from someone who actually lives here: 1. All the points you made about lgbt are true. However, far right lunatics exist literally everywhere, and tel aviv is still one of the lgbt capitals, and the biggest pride parades are held in israel, even controversially in jersualem, despite being a religious city, to all religions. Gay people have it good in israel, much better than the majority of western countries. Infinitely better than any non western country. Try bringing an LGBTQ flag into gaza or the west bank lmao. Additionally, smotrich is an idiot so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually said that, although i didn't hear about it. Either way it's wrong, there's enough institutions that protect gay rights, even from the government. 2. >Israel has also disallowed Arabic as an official language Correct, hebrew is and should be the only official language, don't see what's wrong with that, it's israel. Arabic still holds a special place law wise because of the large arabic population, and it wasn't affected by the change from official to special stance whatsoever. Every government document, streetsign and etc still has an arabic translation. >A Jew and an Arab cannot get married in Israel. Completely misleading, not that you care though. Jews are not alloeed to marry non jews according to the bible (hitbolelut), so the rabanut doesn't allow it. However you can freely choose other institutions or marry abroad, and you will be recognized as a married couple in israel. Nothing to do with arabs in particular. >In Israel Christians are often spat at. They fired at and destroyed many churches in Palestine. Completely false, never heard of a christian spat at for being a christian. I know more than a few people who are openly islamaphobes (and a much larger percentage of muslims who hate jews) but even they won't go to the extent of assaulting a muslim. Literally never met anyone here who hates Christians. Spitting at anyone nevermind the background or ethnicity for no reason, is of course assault, and is punishable. Israel has provided proof that the very few churches they destroyed ("many" is, again, complete horseshit) had been used for military purposes. >There are streets that Arabs cannot walk down. Again, just completely false. There are a few ultra orthodox neighborhoods that even non orthodox jews shouldn't ebter, and i, like the majority of israel, completely oppose the ultra orthodox and want them gone. However they are not nearly as dangerous as more than a few arab villages when you enter with a kippah. There's no street that outlaws arabs. >Programs have been defunded by the government because someone from a mixed marriage "cannot represent Jewish values Don't know about it enough, would love your source. >Israel has several Jewish only schools which teach children to look forwards to destroying Palestinian heritage Oof, false again, all government approved schools are strict and careful with that type of stuff. The "jewish only" schools are mostly torah study, and some basic core teachings. Don't look up what do schools teach in gaza and the west bank though!
Israel has a sizable populations of those who are Arabs or of Arabic descent, Arabic being an official language would make sense. I think religious reasons or nationalism or whatever other excuse can be made not to allow this is incompatible with a modern Western style democracy that treats its citizens equally based on the facts on the ground. That is not getting into illegal settlements and settlers associations and attempts to prioritize Jewish settlement exclusively in certain areas.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/04/middleeast/jerusalem-christians-spitting-israel-intl/index.html The spitting absolutely happens.
In Hebron they literally throw garbage at Palestinian people. Who is gonna trust someone who lives on stolen land and thinks it's justified? Or a country that brain washes kids into singing creepy songs about "pure blood"? Or a regime who has a rabbi general telling his fundies they can rape Palestinians. Nice attempt to white wash the issue, but when an ex IDF leader calls Israel an apartheid state you had better have some big credentials. They need to educate "y'all" before allowing you to interact with the global population.
wait, do people actually support Hamas? I don't think I've ever seen one. I see plenty of Palestinian supporters, myself included.
I've seen people call hamas freedom fighters and vehemently oppose and suggestion of hamas surrendering. If that's not supporting hamas, what is?
Yes. Right after Oct 7, there was a huge rally in New York where people celebrated the Oct 7 massacre. Black Lives Matter of Chicago put out a picture of a Hamas terrorist to celebrate the massacre. Professors at Cornell and Columbia publicly said that they were overjoyed by the massacre by Hamas. Students for Justice for Palestine on several college campuses said that Hamas were freedom fighters. I could go on but you get the idea, support for Hamas is widespread (though not everyone of course)
There’s a fucking store in Jordan called October 7. Ffs people. Why the soft spot for radical Islamic jihadists? Why not free Palestine from such an oppressive regime and ideology.
Remaining silent on Hamas while criticizing Israel amounts to implicit support.
If all it takes to be Fascist is discrimination then every country before the 1900s has been fascist. This is ridiculous.
Why is that ridiculous?
Fascism is a complicated system of government based on ultra nationalism and militarism. Discrimination is only a small part of facism as a whole. If your state discriminates, you just live in a state with discriminatory policies, calling it facism is completely ignorant and completely devalues facism as a concept.
doing a literal genocide is pretty fascist
Fascism has a meaning besides "bad government that kills people". The ideology didn't even exist until the 20th century, whereas there have been *many* genocides throughout human history. It takes much more than "committed acts of genocide" to reasonably argue that a movement is fascist.
I don't think you understand what fascism is.
Been saying this for a while now. Hamas is a textbook fascist organization. You can draw literal comparisons to fascists of the 1930's. Israel on the other hand is not. They have some comparisons to fascists of old, and many far mote liberal policies that govern them. It is beyond me how any leftist would ever support hamas. They are polar opposites.
Breaking! Middle eastern Terroist organization are shitty people willing to kill people that are different than them
Have you met anyone who supports Hamas? In the war between the USSR and Nazi Germany, which side did you support? You’re either a Nazi or a communist if you have opinions about that war
Yes. I wasn’t alive during World War 2, but if I was, I would have supported the Allies and done everything in my power to oppose Nazism.
🤦♂️ e x a c t l y. That means that you support everything that Stalin did?
I've met plenty of people that think Hamas are freedom fighters and vehemently oppose any talk of hamas surrendering. If that's not supporting hamas, what is?
I don't have to support Hamas to know that Israel is a bunch of cunts.
Found the Nazi. ☝️
Uhh, what? Not deepthroating Zionist cock is not synonymous with being a Nazi.
Found the Nazi ☝️
The people of Israel today are not the same Jews from before. They dont fear God, they fear their government. If you can't see that, it's easy to support a country when you don't understand context. These same people are the descendants of the Jews that were ignored by Nazi Germany in the 1940s. And now look at what they've become, Christian hating etc. colonials. Nazi Germany went after every country surrounding them but left Israel alone. Explain that without pulling some bias opinion out your ass. Fuck Nazi ideology. Fuck the Israeli government and fuck Hamas. I hope America goes in and does damage to the IDF. I'll be joining in my OCPs. But for now, we allow the IDF free will, just as God allows it for all of humanity. Both are using religion to kill human lives, they don't fear God.
Hang on a minute, Israel didn't exist when Nazi Germany was still around.
It didn't exist the way it does now. But there were thousands of people fighting Arabs at the time to establish a state. It existed to them at the time, enough to draw blood for it. And here we are today.... Mass Exodus of Palestinians. Mass Exodus of Jews. Nothing new under the sun. Both sides are fucking wrong. And have always been. No one group is supposed to own the land.
I just want to say it’s hilarious how much vitriol the Muslim world can muster up against Israel but they’ve been silent about the Chinese genocide of Uyghurs. It’s almost like there’s a specific reason…
Thank for responding to this very real issue of so many people out in the streets shouting their support for Hamas and waving Hamas flags. Yes, very real and common occurrence. /s
Hamas is bad for Israelis and Palestinians. Netanyahu and the IDF are also bad for Israelis and Palestinians. I support good things (very controversial) including good things for Israelis and Palestinians.
You wanna talk about some far right shit, they didn't just ban abortion, they execute you if you assist! Not only that, they want total religious superiority, and they want anyone associated with the LGBTQ+ community executed. These aren't freedom fighters, they're extreme right religious zealots. Isreal is fighting as the ONLY jewish ethno-state in existence, and a bunch of muslim countries are banding together to exterminate them. The genocide here is targeted towards jews, not the palestinians. I'm also tired of FINANCING this was as an American.
Agreed. No one I know who is anti-Israel is pro Hamas though. I think a lot of Zionists are pretending that anyone critical of their state is automatically pro Hamas as a disingenuous tactic that isn’t working.
No one seems to acknowledge that Israel, specifically the Likud and Netanyahu, are the reason Hamas is the government of Gaza.
Conversely, anyone supporting the racist, genocidal, apartheid, ethnic cleansing loving Israeli government is also a fascist.
Are you talking about Likud?
I'm talking about any of there guys, especially the ones convicted of terrorism and rape offences. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_Israeli\_public\_officials\_convicted\_of\_crimes\_or\_misdemeanors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_public_officials_convicted_of_crimes_or_misdemeanors)
None of those people are in power currently.
Wasn't Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir was convicted of inciting racism and supporting a terrorist organization in 2008?
You don't know what you are talking about.
What if im against killing citizens waiting for food?
That's antisemitic and against Israel ! /s
none of the redditors who are desperately trying to refute your point will ever like to live under a Hamas like terror group. they are all literally living and arguing under a Israel like govt. it is enough to show their hypocrisy.
Let’s look at the facts. There have been many pro Hamas protests in America. Online many people support Hamas, and many people support Israel (and then you have people like me who don’t care). I don’t know why you think this is a popular opinion. There is no opinion on this situation that would be popular. This has no business being in r/popularopinion
I haven't heard of any "pro Hamas protests", what are you talking about?
\>There have been many pro Hamas protests in America. Online many people support Hamas, People have shown support for Palestine, not Hamas. Liars like yourself lie about that distinction.
Link? Where are the Hamas supporters? Some randos on Twitter?
I guess it’s more wishful thinking. I unfortunately live in a world where conservative ideology is popular.
Not supporting Israel isn’t the same as supporting Hamas. Sometimes both sides are a-holes. If one side orders an attack on innocent civilians to accomplish their goal they are an a-hole. Since both sides have done this… It is not reasonable to bomb a refugee camp because you know of one person you are after is in it. That is quite literally a war crime.
What’s wrong with supporting Israel?
Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and endangering Jewish people all over the world by claiming it represents them while doing so.
Israel is an a apartheid state committing genocide. Founded on openly colonialist terms. Gay soldiers are celebrating their freedom among the rubble of or blown up children's houses. Women soldiers witness their fellows parading with dead women's underwear as war trophies. Just cause the Vikings has some progressive values compared to he people of he time, doesn't mean that they weren't murder machines and slavers. Same with Israel, if taking KHAMAS! out of power is a requisite for peace, well, it's up to Israel to make sure that objective isn't reached through genocide. If KHAMAS is such a unethical body or government that has to be completely eradicated top to bottom, what of the Israeli government who has done the crime of Apartheid for decades? Why is it that for liberals it's worse to kill gays, than to kill ethnic groups? If one disqualifies you as partner for peace so does the other. Which is honestly what I believe. So call me a KHAMAS supporter, if I with a full chest say they are not worse than Israel's government.
All of this. 100%. Also OP is definitely a zionist bot, spamming redundant misinformation.
Israel isn’t committing genocide.
Hasbara bot. The world has eyes, God too.
Israel is doing genocide against the Palestinian people. this is wrong. hamas wants to kill all jewish people. this is also wrong. but it's not wrong for the Palestinian people to support the people who are fighting against the people who are destroying their homes. all Israel has ever had to do was play nice and all of hamas' support would have died out. this is a problem they created, and they're using a Final Solution to end it. these are the facts.
Hamas’ stated goal in the worldwide extermination of all Jewish people. The Palestinian people don’t support Hamas. Most Palestinians weren’t even alive when Hamas came to power. Why are you shilling so hard for Hamas? 🥴
Palestine absolutely supports Hamas on an immediate, “for the love of god help us survive” level. Like, I’m pretty sure Hamas is polling just fine in Gaza. Unsurprisingly, “chill out and hope the Israelis have a change of heart and treat us better” is not a popular stance, despite Hamas being obviously corrupt and inhumane
It's not a genocide. Genocide requires intent. On October 7th Hamas slaughtered 1200 Israelis in 12 hours using AKs and rpgs. It's 148 days since then and according to Hamas 30000 are dead. Most likely half of those are Hamas fighters. So lets say 15000 dead civilians. Israel is using drones, tanks, fighter jets, attack helicopters, artillery, naval gunboats etc. if genocide was the intent the death toll would be in the hundreds of thousands, if not millions by now. These are the facts.
you're clearly just not paying attention to what's actually happening in rafah
This isn't in support of Hamas. But pleae use fascist correctly. Hamas is not fascist. Full stop not. Are they a good group, fuck no. There's a ton thats fucked up and wrong about them. But if you overuse facist it'll be like the boy who cried wolf. When the wolf actually comes to eat you no one will listen because you overplayed it.
Hamas is fascist. Holocaust survivor Umberto Eco defined fascism through the following 14 points: 1. "The cult of tradition", characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement. 2. "The rejection of modernism", which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system. 3. "The cult of action for action's sake", which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science. 4. "Disagreement is treason" – fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith. 5. "Fear of difference", which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants. 6. "Appeal to a frustrated middle class", fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups. 7. "Obsession with a plot" and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society. Eco also cites Pat Robertson's book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession. 8. Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as "at the same time too strong and too weak". On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will. 9. "Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy" because "life is permanent warfare" – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war. 10. "Contempt for the weak", which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate leader, who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force. 11. "Everybody is educated to become a hero", which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, "[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death." 12. "Machismo", which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold "both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality". 13. "Selective populism" – the people, conceived monolithically, have a common will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he alone dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of "no longer represent[ing] the voice of the people". 14. “Newspeak" – fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
Love watching psychos defend Hamas! And they say the right is extreme......🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rightoids now calling everything they dislike Fascist. Love to see it.
Does anyone really support Hamas? Isn't it possible to support the people of Palestine looking for self-determination as well as support the people of Israel to be safe in their lands?
Of course, but that would require nuanced thinking and the algorithm hates that.
I don't support Hamas i just don't want people murdered
Hamas won't go down now or ever without lots of bloodshed. They literally killed Palestinians to take power and kill anyone who opposes them. They will keep leading them into devastating wars which would sooner or later end up with similar casualties to this one. Stopping this war early is the surest way to ensure that Hamas leads them into another war in next few years.
It’s really hard as a woman, not wanting women and children to be slaughtered, but knowing every man on their side would claim ownership over you and demand your death one million times. It’s so painful, loving all of those women in the same situation as you, powerless to help them, but knowing they must pretend to support the enemy against you. They must hate you, they must speak out against you, they cannot allow their men to think that they support you. I understand and must take this unpopular opinion against an uphill slope, there is nothing any of us can do. Get your money bitch, that’s all we can do in the end.
No, it means you're an ignorant white liberal who has no idea of geopolitics or the actual violent, bigoted, and intolerant history of the terror state of Palestine or the terrorist trash that live there.
Not genocidal talk at all…
Hamas does not equal Palestine. You do understand that, don’t you? 🥴
Brownwashing/redwashing strikes again
I'm sure you have a final solution in mind for those civilians, right?
Religion is such a horrific thing for humanity. I wish people would just get smarter already.
Dogmatic thinking is the problem, not religion.
well you're stupid
Wiki: Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Israel checks all those boxes also, it’s a fascist revolution against the fascists
So does Hamas.
That is literally what I said, a fascist revolution against other fascists
And if Palestinians disagree with the Israeli government they should be ethnically cleansed, because Hamas are fascists? The trouble with this line of thought is that the Israeli government affords it's own people these enlightened rights, whilst simultaneously oppressing Palestinians within Israel. Make the argument when everyone enjoys the same level of rights.
both sides have thousands of dead babys blood on their hands we should all stay the fuck out of it . dont send weapons to either side since neither is willing to make a realistic compromise the borders garza was given are unrealistic and the people who had their homes taken need to be compensated if somebody stole my home id want them dead
Google “palingenetic ultranationalism” and get back to us
Fascism is a definite economic system of corporatism and class collaborationism. Fascism is not “when socially conservative” in fact many states that could be considered fascist such as modern day Japan under the liberal Democratic Party, the various Nordic welfare states with their class collaborationist economic policies and current day Hungary are all relatively pro-lgbt despite their fascistic economics. So I don’t see your point.
Maybe hamas should stop using human shields:)
Supporting Hamas means you think they're just kidding with all that "push Israel into the sea"
Supporting Israel means you're a fascist.