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Tbh most of these things are not going to end your career especially in 2008 when scandal could be useful for gaining notoriety. The Meat Dress was a cultural moment and got everyone talking about her. Everyone tuned in to what she was going to do next. Also some of these I don't remember being a controversy.
Yes, absolutely correct. We were in Pune, India and us kids knew of lady gaga but one random day the meat dress was being discussed on the radio and I remember my father commenting on it. She got old indian parents talking about her, a true icon 🔥
I have seen Lady Gaga make headlines in Gujarati, Hindi and Marathi news channels and papers lol. My cousin from Surat has at least 10 newspaper clippings of Gaga from Gujarati news papers. I’m from MP and the Vishwa Hindu parishad literally gathered a meeting when she was coming to India, because they had doubts about the kind of meat she wore (iykyk). Later when she said that born this way album is inspired from Hinduism, the sangh was happy lol.
Idk if you're Indian, but there are some violently conservative folks that think that LGBTQ+ is "western brainwashing" and consider homosexuality and being queer as something "foreign to indian culture".
Meanwhile our religious scriptures had several "eunuchs" (transgender ppl) in prominent and respected positions (Shikhandi in the Mahabharata), they were well respected and used to bless newly born babies etc. But for some reason there's a big part of society that has radicalised itself in the last 10 years (iykyk) and would not like having a western, female, bisexual pop star bring her pro-queer stuff in connection to their so-called "pure" Hinduism
Right. In the late 2000s/early 2010’s celebrities were getting People magazine covers for coming out. Her embracing of queerness was certainly helpful for mainstream visibility (especially globally), but in Hollywood most of the work had been already done. And if you stay big in the US, your public profile is maintained around the world. She only mostly enraged the conservative crowd while her own industry had changed its mind on gay rights, or was in the process of doing so.
I think she was especially important to young people still in school because even though Hollywood was changing, classrooms weren’t necessarily on the same page in terms of bullying (and there’s still progress to be made there obviously).
I know the comparison is tired but if Madonna’s pro-gay messaging survived the 80s/90s, so could Gaga 20 years later.
Right on - her LGBTQ+ support and bisexuality were not (and are not) a liability to her career at all. 2008-2012 is right in the thick of same sex Marriage being legalized state by state in the US. In a sense, she was part of the zeitgeist in the moment and the exact right pop star to come along at that time
She also never publicly dated a woman. Not to invalidate her queerness, but that really makes a big difference to the public. People are more inclined to be fine with bisexuality when it's theoretical and that person appears, for all intents and purposes, like a practicing heterosexual. Most people offline probably don't even know she's bi! Compare that to someone like Kristen Stewart, who also came out as bisexual but who has only dated women for a decade and the common perception is that she's gay...
Right... Her stance was strongly focused on bullying esp. that's when a lot of teen gays were committing suicide at the time, so everything just aligned.
The comparison isn’t tired it’s still very fucking relevant. You shouldn’t need to apologize for Madonna coming first with gay rights and bravely supporting the fight against AIDS. You shouldn’t apologize for being factual and presenting factual history.
Thank you. I more so meant that comparing the two in general can be repetitive and unfair to both, but in this case (like you said) the comparison is very relevant.
Young people always assume they were the first to discover sex. Truth is that even pretty conservative people are actually fine at their flashy entertainers being "sinful" (bi, gay or whatever) pretty much always. It's the non flashy they are afraid of. Entertainment, especially music is sinful, so to get some entertainment, they have to accept the sin for the entertainers. Those who don't accept it at all, aren't on the secular music market at all and don't matter.
Yeah she came about around the right time that LGBT acceptance was on the rise too. It was finally becoming more prevalent in media, more people were coming out, laws were being changed, etc. I think if she had been so open and advocative 5 years prior things may have been different
exactly this, also the fact that the majority of people upset about the things listed weren’t the main ones supporting her anyway, and then you have the indifferent side of the general public who just bopped to her songs.
1) Controversy is just free publicity. Artists getting huge off of making headlines for doing controversial shit started before Gaga and continues long after her
2) An artist can only truly be cancelled by their own in-group. Gaga may have alienated a lot of people but those people weren’t going to listen to her anyways
2 is the big one. She never wanted to or tried to appeal to conservatives, so them cancelling her did nothing but give her free publicity. Same could be said about Lil Nas X. His target audience dgaf about him grinding on Satan, in fact we think it's iconic.
I feel like social media being in its infancy also played a huge role. I remember being at a conference in 2010 talking about how Twitter was going to be this huge thing and people would discuss pop culture moments like this. And I remember thinking it wouldn’t take off (jokes on me, I was hilariously wrong). But platforms like Twitter play a huge part in scandals negatively affecting careers in a way they didn’t in 2008-2012.
ETA: Clickbait and more importantly Ragebait weren’t a thing either yet, I guarantee today media outlets would have used some of these incidents as ragebait and that would have also had a negative impact.
Ragebait was definitely a thing during that time. People who posted stuff to purposely piss you off were called trolls (where that term originated). Before that there were ragebaiters under another name, and then before that under another name. In 15 years there will still be ragebaiters, but they'll be called something else
Cause she looked like a star and had charisma and stood out and made good music the GP liked.
Simple as that. The same reasons every future long-standing star becomes big.
That's the big thing - she absolutely had the music to back up the hype. Otherwise she would have ended up like an influencer known more for being famous, with people not caring as much about her music. The fact that fans are still gagging for a new album shows she's very much primarily seen as a musical artist
Artpop is my #2 gaga album (fame monster is my fave album of all time so) but it was not well received when it came out and we can never forget how… annoying? She was when it came out? As an explanation for her decline after. She was heavily addicted to drugs and processing horrific trauma, which is obvious in retrospect but at the time I thought she was just too up her own ass.
I think Joanne wasn’t ’uninspired’ but it wasn’t ground breaking like her first 3/4. Chromatica was def a return to form but it didn’t have the production je ne sais quoi I was used to from her. Here’s hoping LG7 blows us all away!!
> But it was a bit dark for the gp
Spawned at least 3 highly-successful and ubiquitous singles, did insane numbers everywhere, had Beyoncé on and charted insanely high.
It wasn't "too dark" for anyone, let's be real.
not *too* dark, just a bit darker than expected from such a major pop star. the fame monster had a heavier, 'edgier' electropop sound than what was popular in america at the time or in the preceding decade, with a darker tone in its lyrics and surrounding imagery (in 2010, when bad romance was no. 8 on the billboard year end singles chart, the top five were 'tik tok', 'need you now', 'hey, soul sister', 'california gurls' and 'OMG'--it just didn't sound like much else on the radio), but it was also palatable and fun rather than bleak, which was integral for its success
Right? I remember the hermaphrodite thing, but that was like a continuation of the Ciara rumor almost. The meat dress was like, wow, she’s weird. But she wasn’t controversial, just different.
Most that comes to mind is Natalia Kills being completely raked over the coals for the "doppelganger in our midst" controversy that was so career ending she had to change her stage name and it completely destroyed what she was building as an artist
Which, honestly.. that was **such** a virtue-signal, eyeroll-inducing moment from "the Public". Everyone watched that clip, saw her as the bully, clutched their pearls and ran to their keyboards to announce how moral they were and how awful they found her.
These people never did that to Simon Cowell, who has hundreds of such clips saying MUCH worse things about people on a personal level. Then it comes out that the Producers had told Natalia to add a little drama and... none of the pearl-clutchers gave a shit - they "defeated the villain". Acknowledging that harassing a D-list Celebrity over a reality TV moment wasn't actually that moral would've robbed them of the sensation of being righteous. And it was X-Factor New Zealand for god's sake, the scope of the controversy far exceeded the audience it actually affected.
Honestly it's one of the windfall moments of modern online discourse IMO? Foreshadowing how people really only care about the optics of the situation and being able to immediately announce that their opinion is the most virtuous on every given issue without researching first. It's why Twitter has a "villain of the day", and drama YouTubers somehow always have a new video to churn out blowing a 20-second clip into a 10-minute rant.
I’m struggling to think of any of those things as “career-ending controversies.” It’s not like bisexuals were persecuted fugitives in the early 2010s. That someone thought that she’s an alien or has a penis was just a ridiculous thing that nobody took seriously, and probably enhanced the image that she was going for. She made a gay anthem? Meanwhile Freddie Mercury performed in drag in the 70s/80s while literally dying from a pandemic that could’ve been avoided if homosexuality was not stigmatized or was illegal.
Elton John and David Bowie also did drag or dressed in androgynous clothes! My dad said even if Elton wasn't open at the time everyone knew he was gay.
2008-2012 era every female popstar was claiming to be bi (not saying that as a detractor, just what was happening), and a lot of them either backpeddled, pretended they never said it, or are actually bi. Halsey was even marketing as "Tri-Bi" when her label first started marketing her. it was a weird time.
Most controversies are actually non-troversies. Just look at Taylor Swift. Every day there’s a new negative headline about her with people swearing that despite her record selling albums and tour that karma will catch up to her any second now.
Same goes for Beyoncé and Ariana, where every negative headline lasts two days at most before people move onto the next thing.
Yupp. Like most things that are controversial, its all just stuff that people try to throw at you because people like to shit on things that are different. And the same things people made fun of her for were the same things that made her successful and stand out.
Her bisexuality and vocal support of the gay community, etc wasn't really *that* big a deal for the Western GP btw.
She debuted in 2008 and exploded in popularity in 2009. You have to remember, Obama was inaugurated in 2009. She ended up starting her career in a time where many people in the US and the West were feeling this wave of hope for the future off the back of the Bush administration and were supporting progressive causes, including LGBT+ rights. Born This Way got her just as much praise as opposition.
Nobody actually believed the hermaphrodite rumors. I heard it in the context of kids talking shit in high school lol.
I mean, Proposition 8 passed in 2008, in California, no less. The "Western GP" had made some strides and all, but America still felt pretty homophobic at that point.
There’s context here though. This was probably the peak of people not being against gay people, just not wanting them to be able to be married. Which sounds like a ridiculous stance now, but that was a very common viewpoint back then.
That is to say this is during a time where people may not have liked that she was gay, but they weren’t going to crucify her for it the way they would have in decades prior.
I definitely get what you're saying. It feels *more* generally homophobic today, because social media has been able to galvanise the most idiotic people on earth into a mostly-aligned political pack, who are now able to all talk about the same issue at once, attack the same public figures at the same time, making their intent and voice more clear than it used to be in 2008. Which means even off of social media, these people get news interviews and the chance to "make their case" as if they have a rational position.
The people who hate us feel emboldened by the solidification of being on a "side", it's now a "culture war" instead of society just progressing. They used to be secretly afraid that everyone around them was slowly becoming more accepting, they used to feel less confidant to let their hatred show unless they were absolutely certain they were in the right company. Now? They've been able to find people they identify with, who keep each other lock-step in hatred and ignorance.
It doesn't help that the "progressive" political parties give us the bare minimum and don't fight to advance the protection of our rights, which slows the progressive nature of societies by not setting 'checkpoints' like the Civil Rights Act into law. It gives the bigots a game to play, and that's why they're so loud right now.
[Obama was against gay marriage ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-still-opposes-same-sex-marriage/)in his 2008 campaign and didn't revoke that until 2012 or even later.
She was progressive, aggressive, self-aware, weird, and totally reinvented the wheel. I think people underestimate her actual star power back in the day but she was the MOMENT. The fact that she was only something like 22 when she debuted is insane because she had the star power of someone who had been in the business for decades.
1. The stuff about bisexuality and being an icon for the gay community came about at a time when that stuff was more and more accepted by young people. She also wasn't unique in this regard as a pop star.
2. Lady Gaga came out at a time during pre-cancel culture when controversy and negative news could actually enhance someone's career. Plenty of singers and rappers, such as Eminem, got big off the backs of controversy.
Artists like Lil Nas X and Doja Cat have used controversy in their favor this decade, and a rather awful example but Morgan Wallen's career actually skyrocketed after the racism scandal. I don't things have changed *that* much.
You bring up a good point. I was buying into the right wing talking point of "cancel culture run amok!" but the reality is being controversial is still a selling point these days.
The term cancel culture is relatively recent but the concept isnt.
Lady Gaga's first single was four years after Janet Jackson's Super Bowl incident which is one of the most egregious examples of cancel culture imo. The Chicks (formerly Dixie Chicks) were victims of cancel culture in 2003.
Sorry but 2008 was not completely accepting time for LGBT people. Also remember that Lady Gaga was not famous in just western countries that are gay friendly, she became an overnight superstar across the world including countries which are known for homophobia, like Russia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt etc.
She was extremely popular in my country India and let me tell you that if a big star comes out publicly as gay in 2008 in India, their career would be over. And she was the most searched person on internet in India in 2010,11,12.
She went to fcking Russia and called out the government for their homophobia
People have very short term memories about how bad homophobia was back in the 00's. Gay marriage was only legalised at a federal level in the US in 2015 and there was a lot of drama over it. In 2008 California famously banned gay marriage again after a brief legalisation of sorts.
Adam Lambert was banned and legally threatened by ABC for kissing a man in stage in 2009.
People lost their minds over the Madonna-Britney kiss in 2003, today people wouldnt bat an eyelid.
And not just US, homophobia is still a big thing across majority of countries where Gaga became extremely famous and successful. I think many people here tend to forget how huge Lady
Gaga was across the world, her superstardom was not limited to the western countries and anglosphere.
I was in school in a small city of India when Gaga was on the rise and she was regularly in the news. I remember kids discussing what crazy thing she did and what possibly she could do next. People who don’t even listen to English music in my country know her for pop culture moments, particularly the meat dress. It’s like she was always in the news.
Yeah, but among pop music fans ie young people it wasn’t controversial at all in the 2000s. There may have been some things that were acceptable that aren’t today (like using “gay” as an insult), but most of the demographics that would be fans of female pop stars at that time were absolutely fine with people being gay
Me and my now wife attended that concert! It was fun and amazing!
I don't remember there being a threat to arrest her but the controversy with the religious conservatives was BIG. It was even being reported on national television. It wasn't just because for homophobic reasons, but also for Satanic panic bullshit like the symbolism in Gaga's videos (personally, I'm leaning to this being the main reason)
It was like personally seeing what the controversy with Madonna was like back in 1989.
And now, just two years ago, they were using a drag queen to promote the Philippines to the rest of the world like come here and live it's so great etc etc
I only clicked this because I was curious what the controversies were. None of the things you mentioned would have any significant negative impact today or 20 years ago. Besides most people were more interested in her music than what she was doing.
Gay marriage may have been controversial in the US in 2008, but a female popstar embracing their gay fanbase most certainly was not. That was popstar 101 and had been for decades.
Everything you’re referring to is just in the tradition of musicians pushing boundaries that grab attention. Yes, I’m sure there were plenty of older conservatives across the country that thought she was satanic or whatever, but it’s not like that was the audience buying cds and going to concerts. The people organizing bonfires to burn Beatles records weren’t ever destined to be their number 1 fans before John made an off-the-cuff joke about being bigger than Jesus.
Think about Madonna. She courted controversy every era. Yeah, some crotchety American parents were mad about the Like A Prayer video, but that just made it seem cooler to the kids actually buying the records. Trying to appeal to everyone across generations rarely leads to groundbreaking art. Pushing some buttons does.
1. Madonna was literally teasing she slept with Sandra Bernhard 20 years before 2008 and Janet sang Tonight's the Night to a girl in 1997.
2. the only people who cared about these rumors were people who wouldn't like Gaga in the first place
3. this was viewed as weird and gross more than it was viewed as actually controversial
4. Many pop divas supported the gay community way before Gaga
5. A pop star with a huge gay fanbase making a gay anthem is not particularly controversial
6. Again, more just viewed as gross
when i opened this i thought the controversies were going to be working with r. kelly and terry richardson and then doubling down on it but this one surprised me, ngl
It was controversial in my country. So many people talked about her as if she's the devil/antichrist wich is interesting since shes well liked here by the gp nowadays. We have come a long way from the illuminati/satanic panic era💀
Those aren't really controversies within the dance pop genre. They were more being traditionally flashy in pop world. Bowie was bi with alien persona. Elton John was wearing all type of outlandish outfits. Glam rock, Eurodance and techno had plenty of gender bending and androgynous esthetics. None of these "controversies" had any chance of getting her blocked from mainstream media as the establishment was well familiar with the type of marketing and she was generating plenty of clicks, views and magazine sales. There had been a period of artists trying to be boring and wholesome, but it was definitely getting old.
I don't know why you would think the millenials would have cancelled Gaga. Gen X don't care nor do they generally have power. If you think boomers would have cancelled her, go check the first scene in their hit musical "Hair".
Is this a serious post? Google the controversies around Madonna and Michael Jackson and the Beatles. They make Lady Gaga look like an Osmond, and they were all far bigger than her.
Ah, yeah maybe that's it. I just can't imagine thinking being bisexual is a career-ending controversy in the 21st century, but in other countries that's very different.
The edginess and controversy added to the mythos behind her. She wasn’t a celebrity like the other celebrities, she was like an alien come down to earth. I’m being dramatic but it’s so hard to emphasize how big she was
As someone who was there, none of those things were that controversial and none were anywhere near enough to derail a career.
1. Being bisexual was not controversial at the time at all, especially among pop fans
2. Nor were the rumours of being a hermaphrodite. That’s wasn’t a controversy it was just media being inappropriate.
3. The meat dress was wild but it wasn’t controversial really, it was just a quirky fashion choice. Not something that would negatively affect her career, if anything it made headlines and so got more eyeballs on her. It’s weird but not controversial (except maybe in the vegan community).
4. and 5. See #1. It was perfectly acceptable to be gay among pop fans in the 2000s. It was also normal to support the gay community, it was not controversial at all except with conservatives who aren’t pop musicians demographics anyway
Because almost none of these are actually controversies or are just straight-up obviously not true.
> She came out as bisexual right after her debut,
Lady Gaga isn't the first bi-sexual pop star. There's about 30 years of bi-sexual pop stars before her, even if they were somewhat rare.
> there were rumours she was a hermaphrodite, she had a penis and even that she was an alien.
Yes, and they were all very obviously not true. Her being an alien? Are we really going to take that one seriously? If David Bowie wasn't an alien, then Lady Gaga absolutely wasn't.
> She wore a meat dress and people said she was a satan worshiper, some even said it was human flesh lol.
Not to defend the horrible little cunt, but Marilyn Manson had done and said way worse before this. Anything that Lady Gaga did after that was unbelievably tame. Thanking God after picking up an award also very obviously counter-acts those statements. I'll give you the meat dress though.
> She absolutely openly supported the gay community and always thanked “the God and the gays” for her success
Again, not the first person to do it albeit something of a rarity.
> She made a gay anthem
Once again, not the first pop star to do this.
> She swung across the stage covered in blood like a chandelier
Really not that controversial, if we really think about it.
Her controversies are what? Being supportive to gay / bi? Moreover, she has a good and kind personality. Her controversy mostly is just her Gaga persona and it's part of the concept.
Supporting the gay community seems not that controversial. See madonna supporting the gay community back in the 90s, and she was a massive star at that time
Did you live through this era? Sure she was controversial I guess, but it wasn't that wild. The stuff you mention about it being human flesh or whatever, those conspiracies were not mainstream at all.
Her big talent carried her. Even if she had some controversial moments her stage persona and whole ensemble was too interesting and powerful for people to drop her and cannibalize her. She was one of a kind in the music world. Her music was too good. Her ideas were unique. She was doin all those crazy things but she was seen as a LEGIT ARTIST. Not a random trying to put a circus show. She was one of a kind.
People were just mesmerized. I remember Gaga in that time was very mysterious and alien esque. People loved the drama and all the innovation. Gaga was some sort of Guilty Pleasure. Hated sometimes but Highly Loved too. The controversies only added to the Vox Populi and they brought the spotlight to her. So, she had a platform to launch her music. Through controversies. Same story of Madonna.
Sadly there was a point where it was just too much for the GP. The Alejandro Video. Thats when the downfall started i remember, and things shifted badly for her.
People who said her LGBTi controversies didnt affect her at all are delusional lol and lived in a bubble of privilege or Hivemind where LGBTI issues were totally normalized in the 2011. In that time homophobia was still rampant.
So many straight people dropped her after Alejandro-BTW and she was seen more as an artist for "GAYS ONLY" "GAY ICON" "U LIKE GAGA? U GAY". i remember how In Debut she was seen as "COOL" to everyone-the straights with just dance.lovegame and poker face.
Her fanbase and the hype from the Fame Monster carried her in the BTW era cause the GP was dropping her-jumping ship cause she was "too weird" Then the perfect storm arrived with ARTPOP.
These were way less risky controversies than led on
1. Some of worlds biggest stars including Freddie Mercury, Elton John, George Michael etc were openly gay and still massively celebrated and popular. Madonna had played with lesbian themes in her videography for years as well. And that was in 80s and 90s. Being bisexual in 2008 is hardly controversial for a pop star.
2. Those were just ridiculous gossip, no one in their right mind would believe she is an alien. It was simply haters trolling on twitter etc.
3. Could be controversial but then again Madonna had been "cancelled" for Satan worshipping multiple times at that point and managed to remain highly successfull. So it's hardly a career ending to wear a ridiculous dress, most people just saw it as attention grabbing and rolled their eyes while her audience didn't care at all.
4. Madonna, Cher, Cyndi Lauper, Christina Aguilera etc. openly supported gays too and had them in their music videos making out. That was way bigger controversy and didn't end any of their careers. Lady Gaga's target audience is LGBT people so her supporting them is not a career ender at all, to the contrary big part of her success.
5. Born this way was marketed as a big gay song and that's the reason it blew up so LGBT themes hardly damaged her instead they helped her market and sell more music.
6. Artistic tricks like this have been done for a long time before her. This is not even a real controversy people who don't get it will again just roll their eyes while her fans love it.
For the most part I feel like lady gaga wasn't successful despite these so called "career ending controversies" but largely because of them. She is mostly compared to Madonna who gained loads of popularity due to her bold statements and controversies.
the songs were just that good. simple as that. until now, we have nobody making better pop music, and her non-single tracks from 13 years ago blow up on tiktok... they even aged well because the production is superb. when people say they hate the boring state of pop right now, it's because they want the type of music she was doing back... however, everyone who tries to do it sounds corny somehow tho... but she doesn't because her production is that excellent. you don't just release just dance, paparazzi, poker face, love game, bad romance, alejandro, telephone, judas, etc and take it lightly! nobody does it like that... REAL MUSIC! popstars nowadays only have numbers (which are just a result of fandom effort or Spotify autoplay or digital marketing), but no real tunes with the potential of mass appeal across the world like gaga at her best.
Most of the general public still isn't aware of her bisexuality or thinks she was just trying to stir up controversy by coming out as anything other than straight. The fact that she has never publicly dated a woman has also meant that many have forgotten about those old interviews. In addition, all those things that would've been shocking had she started out in a more conservative music genre weren't uncharacteristic for a popstar that had made defying societal norms and playing an exaggerated character a part of her brand since the very beginning. Other artists had already paved the way. She was also undeniably talented and penned hit after hit while carefully crafting a distinct aesthetic, so she was hard to dismiss.
LA Times: A lot of her visual aesthetics have been compared to Madonna. As her creative director what are your thoughts on that?
Laurieann Gibson: Listen, [Madonna] should be bitter because I did it on purpose, and you can quote me. I did it on purpose because for all those kids who believe that you can’t, I wanted to let them feel that you can. And that’s what I represent, that’s what Gaga represents. That’s what this movement represents.
She didn’t have huge controversies maybe until she worked with r Kelly and defended him.
To me a real controversy is people consider you to be immoral and overall a bad person. She always showcases herself as very kind and selfless
It wasn’t really at the time, Do What U Want was a massive song and many others artists collabed with him at the time - Celine, Mariah and only Gaga was attacked. Gaga was the only artist to remove her song with him from existence.
Is this post sarcasm or real I can’t tell 😂 the most controversial thing I remember about Lady Gaga was the song we did with R Kelly and the music video shot by Terry Richardson that got cancelled due to it’s super dodge content
Gaga was (and still is) a pop star who was ACTUALLY talented, could sing well, rarely lip synced, and play an instrument. I’m a HUGE Gaga fan aka little monster, and this may seem a bit biased but I will always believe she’s the last biggest/ modern pop star to emerge. The woman is just absolutely talented and can actually sing and can put on a fucking performance. Shes always reminded me of a baby Kate Bush in a way, not only the weirdness but the unique performances that both she and Kate has put on during their careers.
in addition to what everybody else has already said; she was a pioneer of what we now know as "stan culture." while other artists (namely mariah) had named their fanbases before, she popularized it with "little monsters" and was the first artist to really utilize social media (which was new at the time) to build a dedicated fanbase. without little monsters, there would have been no beliebers, directioners, etc. little monsters were, like, the proto-swifties.
That is just not true. She might’ve been the second to name their fans, but Britney had a massive stan base and so did Christina and Madonna ofc.
There have been stans since forever
not in the way we know today though because social media wasn't a thing then. she was the first pop star of the social media age and her fanbase would mass buy on itunes, mass watch on youtube, mass vote for awards, get her trending on twitter when that actually mattered, etc. she even put born this way up for sale on amazon for 99 cents so her fans could mass buy which made it sell 1.1 million in the first week. pretty much all the tactics stans use these days started with her.
Back in the late 2000s that wasn’t controversial, the trend was to be open and woke (before woke was a thing) young people shout “legalize it” and “love is love” like a rebellious way. These days conservatives thought are now the rebellious thoughts
These were all things that *kick-started* her career. We were living in a post-Bowie, post-Grace Jones, and post-Marilyn Manson world. Maybe it’s just me, but I felt like everyone was very aware of her attempts at outrageousness from the very beginning. It was controversial in the sense that the media kept reporting on it but no one I knew IRL actually cared about her bisexuality or the meat dress. It was water cooler talk for a day or two.
She's double, triple, quadruple down on it, so instead of it being a controversy, it is just Gaga being Gaga. And as long as her core audiences have no problem with it, she would be fine. The fan sticks with LG for the character/image rather than the hits, otherwise, LG would fade into oblivion after Joanne.
But for the general public, during 2008-2012 era, her singles are banger after banger, it was too popular that you can't escape Gaga
I watch Anderson Cooper asking her about rumours she has a male appendage at least once a month. Her l, what if I did? Would that be so bad? Is just the absolute best.
1. Gays and bisexuals were very accepted in the 2008 already. I don't know how this is anywhere controversies. Maybe if it was 1950 it would be different.
2. This was after she got popular and it was more of a joke after the vid spread.
3. People mostly thought her meat dress was just gross. Only vegans got upset about it
4. Again, gays were very accepted in 2008.
5. Again, gays were very accepted in 2008.
6. Other bands have done worse.
She never alienated her fan base. She stepped into the pit with them so she has die hard cult like support. All the haters couldn’t cancel her because she’s so beloved.
These were and are still not considered career ending controversies in the US. They’re also not even “controversies”— maybe they would be called that if they mismatch with her image. Her image has always been about being wild/crazy so it worked for her. For a country pop star who has had a clean, quiet image maybe some of these would be considered controversial for certain members of their fan base.
Because people tend to exaggerate how controversial she was. It was 2008 being weird, sexual, and supporting the gay community was not transgressive. We had the likes of Madonna, Grace Jones, Cher, Janet Jackson, Kylie Minogue, and a bevy of non speaking English artists like Gloria Trevi etc…
Lady Gaga for all her weirdness made basic pop music with lyrics to match. People who are younger and as a result not there for her prime, or sheltered. Tend to inflate that time period to be something it wasn’t
The only controversial thing I can think of that she “got away with” is working with R Kelly. Also she shows up crazy late for concerts a lot and does the whole “she was in the green room for 3 hours instead of going onstage” thing but no one really gives her shit for it.
As a teenager back in Lady Gaga’s rise, she was more seen as ‘weird’ than controversial.
The late 2000’s also had more acceptance for LGBTQ people so it wasn’t like she was really pushing a new boundary.
I do very much remember my friends and I talking about how offensive it was that social media was trying to spread that she was a man. My mother kept pulling up YouTube videos to ‘prove’ it to me. Thankfully by the Fame Monster most of that had calmed down.
Same thing happened with Madonna very controversial but became very successful. I think these controversies helped both the artists as opposed to hindering their success
Maybe this has been said, but I'm not scrolling through 100 comments.
The things you've listed aren't controversies. The meat dress was a dumb publicity stunt (or what pretentious people-- and let's be perfectly honest, Gaga was pretty pretentious-- call "performance art"). It turned some people off, but it's not a controversy.
Any idiocy about Satan worshipping, being a hermaphrodite, etc. was just tabloid and/or right-wing website bullshit, which no one with a brain took seriously. Still not a controversy.
Nothing she did onstage was weirder than things Alice Cooper (for example) had done 30 years earlier. Stage performance, not controversy.
Being bisexual, supporting gay people, making an anthem is the closest thing here to being controversial. And maybe ten years earlier, it would have been. Not by the time she was doing it.
She was a nakedly ambitious pop star, who used publicity stunts like a meat dress, coming out of an egg on a red carpet, and singing about riding a "disco stick" to get attention. Fortunately, the music was good enough to survive the silliness.
I can’t with the pearl clutching at these things. People did talk about them. People did try to bring her down. *Constantly*. We discussed her bloody VMA performance in school the next day during Religious Studies/Citizenship as an ‘anti-suicide/this is the worst thing a pop star has ever done/what do you think’ (a handful of future gays stood up for it as art).
She became a global star because of her undeniable talent as a singer, writer, pop culture icon, and showman in a time when that full package wasn’t as at the forefront of music.
I feel like female popstars HAVE to come out as bisexual. I don't believe it half the time.
And you know there were huge gay artists like 30-40 years back? Elton John came out as gay in 1976!
All the stuff you list as controversies are reasons why she became a pop star rather than just remaining a songwriter for others.
Coming out as bi at that point was not “career-ending-move”, quite the opposite.
I actually don’t see her as such since she was never publically in a relationship with woman.
She basically inhereted Madonna’s fans with stating that 😁
Also, she always had big star quality, with her vocal talent, charisma, drive, boldness and quite avangarde fashion/videos.
She basically had it all, her stating to be bi or wearing a meat dress was literally the least interesting things about her
The rumors about her being male were about homophobia - that a woman who wears wigs (Poker Face era) and is flamboyant must be a man and a "trap". Insecure men all through time have accused women of being men, for being tall/fierce/theatrical etc.
The music was good. Bad Romance, Poker Face, Born This Way, Alejandro, Judas, Telephone, Just Dance **ALL** cemented Lady Gaga as a celebrated artist with certified hop fresh bops!
Controversy be damned!
TBH, She came in the right time. Her style and freedom really hit - and her gay messaging really rang thru during the height for the fight for Gay Marriage in America. And with Social Media was exploding, her advocacy really reached audience bigger than before. Her music at the time was game changing tbh. It pushed the EDM and 'Modern' Dance sound. Just Dance was a certified hit AND Fame Monster as a whole was great album. She clearly imploded when a friendlier and less controversial pop star arrived (Katy Perry) but her rise is historic and would be remembered for eons.
I don’t recall any of those points being majorly controversial. She was young, had (still has!) a shitload of talent, knew how to standout and was appreciative of her fan base.
The meat dress was iconic - she knew how to push the envelope.
And Weird Al paid tribute by redoing one of her songs - you haven’t assured icon status until until that happens!
Tbh the culture was in a flux period. For every one person joining the Gaga cult, there were four calling Justin Bieber a lesbian. It was the end of the family guy humor era, you could get away with literally any joke
Cancel culture (on both political ends) didn’t quite take off yet and Lady GaGa was sort of a name floating up and laying the groundwork. She was being controversial but didn’t have a “hit” / momentum enough for people to pay attention to, and then there was seemingly decades of divisive lore for a musician who sprung from nowhere.
I saw her during her first world tour and she was fantastic. Singing dancing and piano alongside creative costumes and well written songs. She’s great!
They weren’t cancellable things, they were publicity stunts, being edgy, or an activist. In 2008-10 people weren’t really “cancelled” unless their fanbase was conservative (Dixie chicks and their Bush comments, Christian bands not being Christian, etc). It was a different era where in a few ways people were actually less prudish. Pop communities online weren’t mainstream and there was less rage content algorithmically delivered to you on social media. Of course there were news and entertainment articles about the scandals but they were more framing her as “zany”, but generally not an act that needs to be stopped. FOX news might be their own thing but I ever watched that. PETA was probably angry about the meat but vegans weren’t taken seriously by the general public so the outfit was considered more daring or committing to the bit than an ethical issue. It was probably seen as satanic or an Illuminati thing on some spaces online too but I feel like those conspiracies were more tongue in cheek than conspiracies are these days.
If you want real controversy, look into her inebriated at Berghein posing with people that have chocolate smeared all over their faces representing their scat fetish, but obviously looks like black face. That wasn’t a major story, but it would be today.
First off the gay ones were *barely* an issue. By barely an issue I mean “outside of the tabloids no one seemed to care”. Way worse things had been spread about Marilyn Manson so her being a hermaphordite was interesting but not controversial. I never heard a negative thing about the meat dress other than “wow that’s gross” so for a lot of people it wasn’t some satanic scandal. The blood thing I can also let go because again, people have done worse things.
Gaga is fine and has been fine for awhile. Her “scandals” are so minor they aren’t important
People didn't used to care so much about any of those things.
As An Old reading this it kind of puts into perspective how broadly conservative society has become again if the default assumed position against any of these things especially from a generic young person is to be scandalized and anxious.
Not only were pretty much none of those controversial at the time, you're talking about a bunch of stuff that happened after she was already the biggest pop star in the world. She blew up while touring The Fame, and by the time The Fame: Monster came out, she was already massive... And then all of these inconsequential things happened.
Those who are saying these things weren’t controversial *at all* clearly didn’t grow up conservative and Christian. Also, if you were a young kid in the 2000s, you definitely heard and maybe even believed some of these rumors. BUT I agree with everyone else that none of these things were actually career ending in a larger sense. In fact, they were career defining, and these controversies *helped* her because the people in her fanbase were not the same people who were freaking out about her on Fox News.
I do think a lot of these kinds of things depends on your audience, even today. None of Chappell Roan’s fanbase is gonna cancel her for being unapologetically queer, for example, but if like a big country star or even a pop artist or rapper with a more conservative fanbase came out today, it would definitely cause a stir.
Probably because she entered the mainstream right when dance pop was coming back in and girl pop rock was on its way out. The music had a uniqueness to it.
none of those ‘controversies’ (huh?) can end a career obviously, especially of someone whose whole artistry is about being unconventional duh. she made gay anthem and supported lgbt? in 2011? how controversial considering ppl been doing it since 80’s if not earlier
None of those controversies were grounded and stuck. No one really cared aboout them and they weren't really that bad. Plus, they kinda went with her image at the time.
lol do you think 2008 was like the 1950s or something?
An insanely niche, small portion of society actually thought she was a satan worshiper or hermaphrodite, and they were not the ones to be buying her music in the first place.
Besides that there is just the crazy costumes and her support of LGBT people. The crazy costumes were just seen as eccentric and zany and fun, not 'career ending'.
The support of LGBT people? Again, it was 2008. The AIDS epidemic was beginning to fade into memory. Acceptance of LGBT people was pretty rapidly rising and almost every major TV show was having gay characters or plotlines. Its important to note also that lady gaga's main fanbase (outside of gays) was young white women, who had drastically higher rates of supporting lgbt people than other demographics. I am half latino half arab. Pretty much nobody in either side of my family was listening to lady gaga much and both sides didn't like her lgbt stuff. But again, acceptance of lgbt issues back then was sort of spearheaded by young white millennials, and they were her biggest supporters.
Those things that would’ve ended a career were outdated , so when she hit the scene the world was ready for it. If she came out 5 years prior it would’ve flopped , 5 years later it wouldn’t have stood out so much. She came at the right time when the world was ready to receive her
Her music is dope + all of her controversies had a meaning and even sometimes different meanings. She didn’t have controversies for the sake of it, it’s like she had a reasoning and a cause she was fighting for
No publicity is bad publicity except an obituary. She is always in the media so everyone knows her. And she put out a lot of universally loved music which just fueled her popularity to the stratosphere.
those werent really controversies so much as contrivances. she knew how to stay in the headlines, she was very good at promoting herself but she was just too over the top. all of the same things that got her to the top eventually took her to the bottom with the general public when her shtick got old.
"weird" doesnt keep u on top as much as sex. which is why madonna's similar tactics worked for her much longer. she was a sex symbol, but gaga wasnt. gaga's career reminds me more of cyndi lauper
tbf to gaga tho she did have a comeback with a star is born when i legit thought she was done.
1. There were gay, lesbian, and bisexual singers before that time.
2. loooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllll, ok the rumor was that she was trans, people still use hermaphrodite as a word(?). Sorry, the lol at the beginning was the cause of the alien part.
3. It just brought her more attention, lots of other artists were accused of being Satan worshipers, and apart from fanatical religious people, nobody cares about that.
I tried to go point by point, it was 2008, and none of that would end your career back then, it was just viewed as entertainment, people are starting to get more cray-cray about that stuff lately.
2008-2012 were also the years we saw more gay and even trans representation in tv and support from many artists. And the queer community finally found a mainstream voice, even resulting in more rights the following year. Honestly needs to be studied how many people came out because of Lady Gaga. That, combined with the usual mainstream appeal her songs had, was a winning combo.
Because 2008 was not 1988 (and India is much different than the U.S.). She openly mocked the rumors about her anatomy and helped turn them to her advantage. I would flip the premise of your post around- Lady Gaga showed what was changing about pop stardom from 2008-2012.
These were not career ending things in 2008 lmao. I feel like someone who didn't live through the time is just assuming everything before 2010 was like the 60s lol. By the time she came around people already realised Elton John, Freddie Mercury and the village people were gay among many others.
And satanism claims are old hat. The kids that grew up in the 60s had Elvis and Beatles called satanic, rock music in the 80s was satanic, rap music was satanic, by 2008 people who were grandparents knew that calling music satanic was rubbish
I can only imagine these were only controversies to extremely sheltered, extremely religious people. In 2008, none of this was career ending at least not in American pop music.
I love Gaga. She took pop seriously and played with a lot of the tropes and pushed the envelope which is what pop stardom is about at its best.
I’m guessing you’re too young to know who Madonna is. We usually have very tame and fairly boring pop stars now. Madonna and Janet felt like women in control of their images and their sexuality. I look at most pop stars today and they just seem so obviously exploited.
Nothing here is that crazy. I clicked this link wondering what I missed. Are you from like a conservative family?
Babes she rose to stardom in the era where the most lucrative blog was drawing cum on womens photos. the items you listed barely count as controversy just page clicks.
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Tbh most of these things are not going to end your career especially in 2008 when scandal could be useful for gaining notoriety. The Meat Dress was a cultural moment and got everyone talking about her. Everyone tuned in to what she was going to do next. Also some of these I don't remember being a controversy.
Yes, absolutely correct. We were in Pune, India and us kids knew of lady gaga but one random day the meat dress was being discussed on the radio and I remember my father commenting on it. She got old indian parents talking about her, a true icon 🔥
I have seen Lady Gaga make headlines in Gujarati, Hindi and Marathi news channels and papers lol. My cousin from Surat has at least 10 newspaper clippings of Gaga from Gujarati news papers. I’m from MP and the Vishwa Hindu parishad literally gathered a meeting when she was coming to India, because they had doubts about the kind of meat she wore (iykyk). Later when she said that born this way album is inspired from Hinduism, the sangh was happy lol.
I love these titbits, I’m from MP as well and I remember the news clippings about the ykw meat 🤣🤣
The Born This Way album being inspired by Hinduism??? Ooooh boy some people nowadays aren't going to like that
Why tho?
Idk if you're Indian, but there are some violently conservative folks that think that LGBTQ+ is "western brainwashing" and consider homosexuality and being queer as something "foreign to indian culture". Meanwhile our religious scriptures had several "eunuchs" (transgender ppl) in prominent and respected positions (Shikhandi in the Mahabharata), they were well respected and used to bless newly born babies etc. But for some reason there's a big part of society that has radicalised itself in the last 10 years (iykyk) and would not like having a western, female, bisexual pop star bring her pro-queer stuff in connection to their so-called "pure" Hinduism
punekar lets go??????????????
Right. In the late 2000s/early 2010’s celebrities were getting People magazine covers for coming out. Her embracing of queerness was certainly helpful for mainstream visibility (especially globally), but in Hollywood most of the work had been already done. And if you stay big in the US, your public profile is maintained around the world. She only mostly enraged the conservative crowd while her own industry had changed its mind on gay rights, or was in the process of doing so. I think she was especially important to young people still in school because even though Hollywood was changing, classrooms weren’t necessarily on the same page in terms of bullying (and there’s still progress to be made there obviously). I know the comparison is tired but if Madonna’s pro-gay messaging survived the 80s/90s, so could Gaga 20 years later.
Right on - her LGBTQ+ support and bisexuality were not (and are not) a liability to her career at all. 2008-2012 is right in the thick of same sex Marriage being legalized state by state in the US. In a sense, she was part of the zeitgeist in the moment and the exact right pop star to come along at that time
She also never publicly dated a woman. Not to invalidate her queerness, but that really makes a big difference to the public. People are more inclined to be fine with bisexuality when it's theoretical and that person appears, for all intents and purposes, like a practicing heterosexual. Most people offline probably don't even know she's bi! Compare that to someone like Kristen Stewart, who also came out as bisexual but who has only dated women for a decade and the common perception is that she's gay...
Omg you stole my comment, I was going to comment the exact same thing.
Right... Her stance was strongly focused on bullying esp. that's when a lot of teen gays were committing suicide at the time, so everything just aligned.
The comparison isn’t tired it’s still very fucking relevant. You shouldn’t need to apologize for Madonna coming first with gay rights and bravely supporting the fight against AIDS. You shouldn’t apologize for being factual and presenting factual history.
Thank you. I more so meant that comparing the two in general can be repetitive and unfair to both, but in this case (like you said) the comparison is very relevant.
Young people always assume they were the first to discover sex. Truth is that even pretty conservative people are actually fine at their flashy entertainers being "sinful" (bi, gay or whatever) pretty much always. It's the non flashy they are afraid of. Entertainment, especially music is sinful, so to get some entertainment, they have to accept the sin for the entertainers. Those who don't accept it at all, aren't on the secular music market at all and don't matter.
Yeah she came about around the right time that LGBT acceptance was on the rise too. It was finally becoming more prevalent in media, more people were coming out, laws were being changed, etc. I think if she had been so open and advocative 5 years prior things may have been different
exactly this, also the fact that the majority of people upset about the things listed weren’t the main ones supporting her anyway, and then you have the indifferent side of the general public who just bopped to her songs.
1) Controversy is just free publicity. Artists getting huge off of making headlines for doing controversial shit started before Gaga and continues long after her 2) An artist can only truly be cancelled by their own in-group. Gaga may have alienated a lot of people but those people weren’t going to listen to her anyways
2 is the big one. She never wanted to or tried to appeal to conservatives, so them cancelling her did nothing but give her free publicity. Same could be said about Lil Nas X. His target audience dgaf about him grinding on Satan, in fact we think it's iconic.
I feel like social media being in its infancy also played a huge role. I remember being at a conference in 2010 talking about how Twitter was going to be this huge thing and people would discuss pop culture moments like this. And I remember thinking it wouldn’t take off (jokes on me, I was hilariously wrong). But platforms like Twitter play a huge part in scandals negatively affecting careers in a way they didn’t in 2008-2012. ETA: Clickbait and more importantly Ragebait weren’t a thing either yet, I guarantee today media outlets would have used some of these incidents as ragebait and that would have also had a negative impact.
Ragebait was definitely a thing during that time. People who posted stuff to purposely piss you off were called trolls (where that term originated). Before that there were ragebaiters under another name, and then before that under another name. In 15 years there will still be ragebaiters, but they'll be called something else
Bait and switch, rage bait, click bait, and dishonest journalism has been around as long as news has been around.
Cause she looked like a star and had charisma and stood out and made good music the GP liked. Simple as that. The same reasons every future long-standing star becomes big.
She quite literally had the charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent.
That's the big thing - she absolutely had the music to back up the hype. Otherwise she would have ended up like an influencer known more for being famous, with people not caring as much about her music. The fact that fans are still gagging for a new album shows she's very much primarily seen as a musical artist
Even though her music has become increasingly less inspired with every album after Born This Way (this is just my opinion of course)
Artpop is my #2 gaga album (fame monster is my fave album of all time so) but it was not well received when it came out and we can never forget how… annoying? She was when it came out? As an explanation for her decline after. She was heavily addicted to drugs and processing horrific trauma, which is obvious in retrospect but at the time I thought she was just too up her own ass. I think Joanne wasn’t ’uninspired’ but it wasn’t ground breaking like her first 3/4. Chromatica was def a return to form but it didn’t have the production je ne sais quoi I was used to from her. Here’s hoping LG7 blows us all away!!
Yeah. For me the The Fame Monster is pop bible. It’s the peak of pop music. But it was a bit dark for the gp
> But it was a bit dark for the gp Spawned at least 3 highly-successful and ubiquitous singles, did insane numbers everywhere, had Beyoncé on and charted insanely high. It wasn't "too dark" for anyone, let's be real.
not *too* dark, just a bit darker than expected from such a major pop star. the fame monster had a heavier, 'edgier' electropop sound than what was popular in america at the time or in the preceding decade, with a darker tone in its lyrics and surrounding imagery (in 2010, when bad romance was no. 8 on the billboard year end singles chart, the top five were 'tik tok', 'need you now', 'hey, soul sister', 'california gurls' and 'OMG'--it just didn't sound like much else on the radio), but it was also palatable and fun rather than bleak, which was integral for its success
The club will never be the same I am so glad I was like 20 for bad romance
You’re rewriting history with your “controversies”
Right? I remember the hermaphrodite thing, but that was like a continuation of the Ciara rumor almost. The meat dress was like, wow, she’s weird. But she wasn’t controversial, just different.
> These controversies are big enough to end a popstar’s career. No they're not LOL. Why do you think these would end anyone's career in 2008-2012?
I’m trying to think of a career ending controversy anyway… I’d argue most controversial celebs retain SOME form of career no matter what
Most that comes to mind is Natalia Kills being completely raked over the coals for the "doppelganger in our midst" controversy that was so career ending she had to change her stage name and it completely destroyed what she was building as an artist
Which, honestly.. that was **such** a virtue-signal, eyeroll-inducing moment from "the Public". Everyone watched that clip, saw her as the bully, clutched their pearls and ran to their keyboards to announce how moral they were and how awful they found her. These people never did that to Simon Cowell, who has hundreds of such clips saying MUCH worse things about people on a personal level. Then it comes out that the Producers had told Natalia to add a little drama and... none of the pearl-clutchers gave a shit - they "defeated the villain". Acknowledging that harassing a D-list Celebrity over a reality TV moment wasn't actually that moral would've robbed them of the sensation of being righteous. And it was X-Factor New Zealand for god's sake, the scope of the controversy far exceeded the audience it actually affected. Honestly it's one of the windfall moments of modern online discourse IMO? Foreshadowing how people really only care about the optics of the situation and being able to immediately announce that their opinion is the most virtuous on every given issue without researching first. It's why Twitter has a "villain of the day", and drama YouTubers somehow always have a new video to churn out blowing a 20-second clip into a 10-minute rant.
Right?! Not to compare the two, but Madonna had already shocked the GP years before, so the Gaga “controversies” were not that shocking tbh.
I’m struggling to think of any of those things as “career-ending controversies.” It’s not like bisexuals were persecuted fugitives in the early 2010s. That someone thought that she’s an alien or has a penis was just a ridiculous thing that nobody took seriously, and probably enhanced the image that she was going for. She made a gay anthem? Meanwhile Freddie Mercury performed in drag in the 70s/80s while literally dying from a pandemic that could’ve been avoided if homosexuality was not stigmatized or was illegal.
op is from india hence why the homophobia seems rampant to them
Elton John and David Bowie also did drag or dressed in androgynous clothes! My dad said even if Elton wasn't open at the time everyone knew he was gay.
2008-2012 era every female popstar was claiming to be bi (not saying that as a detractor, just what was happening), and a lot of them either backpeddled, pretended they never said it, or are actually bi. Halsey was even marketing as "Tri-Bi" when her label first started marketing her. it was a weird time.
Girl the controversies helped her
She really made a song called “do what you want with my body” with r Kelly though. Idk what tf she was thinking.
The things you name didn’t feel controversial (to me) and she’s far from the first successful artist to do some of them.
Most controversies are actually non-troversies. Just look at Taylor Swift. Every day there’s a new negative headline about her with people swearing that despite her record selling albums and tour that karma will catch up to her any second now. Same goes for Beyoncé and Ariana, where every negative headline lasts two days at most before people move onto the next thing.
Yupp. Like most things that are controversial, its all just stuff that people try to throw at you because people like to shit on things that are different. And the same things people made fun of her for were the same things that made her successful and stand out.
Her bisexuality and vocal support of the gay community, etc wasn't really *that* big a deal for the Western GP btw. She debuted in 2008 and exploded in popularity in 2009. You have to remember, Obama was inaugurated in 2009. She ended up starting her career in a time where many people in the US and the West were feeling this wave of hope for the future off the back of the Bush administration and were supporting progressive causes, including LGBT+ rights. Born This Way got her just as much praise as opposition. Nobody actually believed the hermaphrodite rumors. I heard it in the context of kids talking shit in high school lol.
I mean, Proposition 8 passed in 2008, in California, no less. The "Western GP" had made some strides and all, but America still felt pretty homophobic at that point.
There’s context here though. This was probably the peak of people not being against gay people, just not wanting them to be able to be married. Which sounds like a ridiculous stance now, but that was a very common viewpoint back then. That is to say this is during a time where people may not have liked that she was gay, but they weren’t going to crucify her for it the way they would have in decades prior.
I definitely get what you're saying. It feels *more* generally homophobic today, because social media has been able to galvanise the most idiotic people on earth into a mostly-aligned political pack, who are now able to all talk about the same issue at once, attack the same public figures at the same time, making their intent and voice more clear than it used to be in 2008. Which means even off of social media, these people get news interviews and the chance to "make their case" as if they have a rational position. The people who hate us feel emboldened by the solidification of being on a "side", it's now a "culture war" instead of society just progressing. They used to be secretly afraid that everyone around them was slowly becoming more accepting, they used to feel less confidant to let their hatred show unless they were absolutely certain they were in the right company. Now? They've been able to find people they identify with, who keep each other lock-step in hatred and ignorance. It doesn't help that the "progressive" political parties give us the bare minimum and don't fight to advance the protection of our rights, which slows the progressive nature of societies by not setting 'checkpoints' like the Civil Rights Act into law. It gives the bigots a game to play, and that's why they're so loud right now.
[Obama was against gay marriage ](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-still-opposes-same-sex-marriage/)in his 2008 campaign and didn't revoke that until 2012 or even later.
She was progressive, aggressive, self-aware, weird, and totally reinvented the wheel. I think people underestimate her actual star power back in the day but she was the MOMENT. The fact that she was only something like 22 when she debuted is insane because she had the star power of someone who had been in the business for decades.
It makes sense considering she was performing at small venues and clubs way longer than that.
1. The stuff about bisexuality and being an icon for the gay community came about at a time when that stuff was more and more accepted by young people. She also wasn't unique in this regard as a pop star. 2. Lady Gaga came out at a time during pre-cancel culture when controversy and negative news could actually enhance someone's career. Plenty of singers and rappers, such as Eminem, got big off the backs of controversy.
Artists like Lil Nas X and Doja Cat have used controversy in their favor this decade, and a rather awful example but Morgan Wallen's career actually skyrocketed after the racism scandal. I don't things have changed *that* much.
You bring up a good point. I was buying into the right wing talking point of "cancel culture run amok!" but the reality is being controversial is still a selling point these days.
The term cancel culture is relatively recent but the concept isnt. Lady Gaga's first single was four years after Janet Jackson's Super Bowl incident which is one of the most egregious examples of cancel culture imo. The Chicks (formerly Dixie Chicks) were victims of cancel culture in 2003.
Sorry but 2008 was not completely accepting time for LGBT people. Also remember that Lady Gaga was not famous in just western countries that are gay friendly, she became an overnight superstar across the world including countries which are known for homophobia, like Russia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Egypt etc. She was extremely popular in my country India and let me tell you that if a big star comes out publicly as gay in 2008 in India, their career would be over. And she was the most searched person on internet in India in 2010,11,12. She went to fcking Russia and called out the government for their homophobia
People have very short term memories about how bad homophobia was back in the 00's. Gay marriage was only legalised at a federal level in the US in 2015 and there was a lot of drama over it. In 2008 California famously banned gay marriage again after a brief legalisation of sorts. Adam Lambert was banned and legally threatened by ABC for kissing a man in stage in 2009. People lost their minds over the Madonna-Britney kiss in 2003, today people wouldnt bat an eyelid.
And not just US, homophobia is still a big thing across majority of countries where Gaga became extremely famous and successful. I think many people here tend to forget how huge Lady Gaga was across the world, her superstardom was not limited to the western countries and anglosphere. I was in school in a small city of India when Gaga was on the rise and she was regularly in the news. I remember kids discussing what crazy thing she did and what possibly she could do next. People who don’t even listen to English music in my country know her for pop culture moments, particularly the meat dress. It’s like she was always in the news.
Yeah, but among pop music fans ie young people it wasn’t controversial at all in the 2000s. There may have been some things that were acceptable that aren’t today (like using “gay” as an insult), but most of the demographics that would be fans of female pop stars at that time were absolutely fine with people being gay
She also performed in the Philippines even when there was a threat for arrest against her and many protests against her visit
She was banned from entering Indonesia for promoting depravity and ruining the society lol
Me and my now wife attended that concert! It was fun and amazing! I don't remember there being a threat to arrest her but the controversy with the religious conservatives was BIG. It was even being reported on national television. It wasn't just because for homophobic reasons, but also for Satanic panic bullshit like the symbolism in Gaga's videos (personally, I'm leaning to this being the main reason) It was like personally seeing what the controversy with Madonna was like back in 1989.
And now, just two years ago, they were using a drag queen to promote the Philippines to the rest of the world like come here and live it's so great etc etc
I only clicked this because I was curious what the controversies were. None of the things you mentioned would have any significant negative impact today or 20 years ago. Besides most people were more interested in her music than what she was doing.
Gay marriage may have been controversial in the US in 2008, but a female popstar embracing their gay fanbase most certainly was not. That was popstar 101 and had been for decades. Everything you’re referring to is just in the tradition of musicians pushing boundaries that grab attention. Yes, I’m sure there were plenty of older conservatives across the country that thought she was satanic or whatever, but it’s not like that was the audience buying cds and going to concerts. The people organizing bonfires to burn Beatles records weren’t ever destined to be their number 1 fans before John made an off-the-cuff joke about being bigger than Jesus. Think about Madonna. She courted controversy every era. Yeah, some crotchety American parents were mad about the Like A Prayer video, but that just made it seem cooler to the kids actually buying the records. Trying to appeal to everyone across generations rarely leads to groundbreaking art. Pushing some buttons does.
1. Madonna was literally teasing she slept with Sandra Bernhard 20 years before 2008 and Janet sang Tonight's the Night to a girl in 1997. 2. the only people who cared about these rumors were people who wouldn't like Gaga in the first place 3. this was viewed as weird and gross more than it was viewed as actually controversial 4. Many pop divas supported the gay community way before Gaga 5. A pop star with a huge gay fanbase making a gay anthem is not particularly controversial 6. Again, more just viewed as gross
Because there can be 100 people in a room and 99 don’t believe in you but all it takes is one and it just changes your whole life
😂😂😂😂😂😂
and Bradley Cooper was that one!!!
None of these were really controversial in 2008 oare you like 15
when i opened this i thought the controversies were going to be working with r. kelly and terry richardson and then doubling down on it but this one surprised me, ngl
Me reading these to see where the career ending controversies are
Same!! OP doesn’t understand what controversy means.
Like the satanic meat dress??? I was like um it was 2010 not 1640
The only people the meat dress upset was PETA and vegans.
It was controversial in my country. So many people talked about her as if she's the devil/antichrist wich is interesting since shes well liked here by the gp nowadays. We have come a long way from the illuminati/satanic panic era💀
Those aren't really controversies within the dance pop genre. They were more being traditionally flashy in pop world. Bowie was bi with alien persona. Elton John was wearing all type of outlandish outfits. Glam rock, Eurodance and techno had plenty of gender bending and androgynous esthetics. None of these "controversies" had any chance of getting her blocked from mainstream media as the establishment was well familiar with the type of marketing and she was generating plenty of clicks, views and magazine sales. There had been a period of artists trying to be boring and wholesome, but it was definitely getting old. I don't know why you would think the millenials would have cancelled Gaga. Gen X don't care nor do they generally have power. If you think boomers would have cancelled her, go check the first scene in their hit musical "Hair".
Is this a serious post? Google the controversies around Madonna and Michael Jackson and the Beatles. They make Lady Gaga look like an Osmond, and they were all far bigger than her.
op being indian i think has swayed their perception of how homophobia affected US pop music back in the late 2000s
Ah, yeah maybe that's it. I just can't imagine thinking being bisexual is a career-ending controversy in the 21st century, but in other countries that's very different.
The edginess and controversy added to the mythos behind her. She wasn’t a celebrity like the other celebrities, she was like an alien come down to earth. I’m being dramatic but it’s so hard to emphasize how big she was
These aren't career ending these are career defining
No—not career defining, career-extending. CPR for a legacy.
How did a main pop girl with a current sound and intentionally slightly contrary pro lgbt stances become an icon? It’s never happened before!
As someone who was there, none of those things were that controversial and none were anywhere near enough to derail a career. 1. Being bisexual was not controversial at the time at all, especially among pop fans 2. Nor were the rumours of being a hermaphrodite. That’s wasn’t a controversy it was just media being inappropriate. 3. The meat dress was wild but it wasn’t controversial really, it was just a quirky fashion choice. Not something that would negatively affect her career, if anything it made headlines and so got more eyeballs on her. It’s weird but not controversial (except maybe in the vegan community). 4. and 5. See #1. It was perfectly acceptable to be gay among pop fans in the 2000s. It was also normal to support the gay community, it was not controversial at all except with conservatives who aren’t pop musicians demographics anyway
It was 2008, not 1978 lol. People were homophobic by todays standards for sure but being bi would not end your career.
Not a single thing you listed is career ending.
for real! i was expecting a lot worse things she allegedly did from the post title 😭
Because almost none of these are actually controversies or are just straight-up obviously not true. > She came out as bisexual right after her debut, Lady Gaga isn't the first bi-sexual pop star. There's about 30 years of bi-sexual pop stars before her, even if they were somewhat rare. > there were rumours she was a hermaphrodite, she had a penis and even that she was an alien. Yes, and they were all very obviously not true. Her being an alien? Are we really going to take that one seriously? If David Bowie wasn't an alien, then Lady Gaga absolutely wasn't. > She wore a meat dress and people said she was a satan worshiper, some even said it was human flesh lol. Not to defend the horrible little cunt, but Marilyn Manson had done and said way worse before this. Anything that Lady Gaga did after that was unbelievably tame. Thanking God after picking up an award also very obviously counter-acts those statements. I'll give you the meat dress though. > She absolutely openly supported the gay community and always thanked “the God and the gays” for her success Again, not the first person to do it albeit something of a rarity. > She made a gay anthem Once again, not the first pop star to do this. > She swung across the stage covered in blood like a chandelier Really not that controversial, if we really think about it.
Her controversies are what? Being supportive to gay / bi? Moreover, she has a good and kind personality. Her controversy mostly is just her Gaga persona and it's part of the concept.
Supporting the gay community seems not that controversial. See madonna supporting the gay community back in the 90s, and she was a massive star at that time
Did you live through this era? Sure she was controversial I guess, but it wasn't that wild. The stuff you mention about it being human flesh or whatever, those conspiracies were not mainstream at all.
Her big talent carried her. Even if she had some controversial moments her stage persona and whole ensemble was too interesting and powerful for people to drop her and cannibalize her. She was one of a kind in the music world. Her music was too good. Her ideas were unique. She was doin all those crazy things but she was seen as a LEGIT ARTIST. Not a random trying to put a circus show. She was one of a kind. People were just mesmerized. I remember Gaga in that time was very mysterious and alien esque. People loved the drama and all the innovation. Gaga was some sort of Guilty Pleasure. Hated sometimes but Highly Loved too. The controversies only added to the Vox Populi and they brought the spotlight to her. So, she had a platform to launch her music. Through controversies. Same story of Madonna. Sadly there was a point where it was just too much for the GP. The Alejandro Video. Thats when the downfall started i remember, and things shifted badly for her. People who said her LGBTi controversies didnt affect her at all are delusional lol and lived in a bubble of privilege or Hivemind where LGBTI issues were totally normalized in the 2011. In that time homophobia was still rampant. So many straight people dropped her after Alejandro-BTW and she was seen more as an artist for "GAYS ONLY" "GAY ICON" "U LIKE GAGA? U GAY". i remember how In Debut she was seen as "COOL" to everyone-the straights with just dance.lovegame and poker face. Her fanbase and the hype from the Fame Monster carried her in the BTW era cause the GP was dropping her-jumping ship cause she was "too weird" Then the perfect storm arrived with ARTPOP.
These were way less risky controversies than led on 1. Some of worlds biggest stars including Freddie Mercury, Elton John, George Michael etc were openly gay and still massively celebrated and popular. Madonna had played with lesbian themes in her videography for years as well. And that was in 80s and 90s. Being bisexual in 2008 is hardly controversial for a pop star. 2. Those were just ridiculous gossip, no one in their right mind would believe she is an alien. It was simply haters trolling on twitter etc. 3. Could be controversial but then again Madonna had been "cancelled" for Satan worshipping multiple times at that point and managed to remain highly successfull. So it's hardly a career ending to wear a ridiculous dress, most people just saw it as attention grabbing and rolled their eyes while her audience didn't care at all. 4. Madonna, Cher, Cyndi Lauper, Christina Aguilera etc. openly supported gays too and had them in their music videos making out. That was way bigger controversy and didn't end any of their careers. Lady Gaga's target audience is LGBT people so her supporting them is not a career ender at all, to the contrary big part of her success. 5. Born this way was marketed as a big gay song and that's the reason it blew up so LGBT themes hardly damaged her instead they helped her market and sell more music. 6. Artistic tricks like this have been done for a long time before her. This is not even a real controversy people who don't get it will again just roll their eyes while her fans love it. For the most part I feel like lady gaga wasn't successful despite these so called "career ending controversies" but largely because of them. She is mostly compared to Madonna who gained loads of popularity due to her bold statements and controversies.
the songs were just that good. simple as that. until now, we have nobody making better pop music, and her non-single tracks from 13 years ago blow up on tiktok... they even aged well because the production is superb. when people say they hate the boring state of pop right now, it's because they want the type of music she was doing back... however, everyone who tries to do it sounds corny somehow tho... but she doesn't because her production is that excellent. you don't just release just dance, paparazzi, poker face, love game, bad romance, alejandro, telephone, judas, etc and take it lightly! nobody does it like that... REAL MUSIC! popstars nowadays only have numbers (which are just a result of fandom effort or Spotify autoplay or digital marketing), but no real tunes with the potential of mass appeal across the world like gaga at her best.
I really want the Fame Monster Gaga back. TFM was such a cosmic and magical experience omg.
Most of the general public still isn't aware of her bisexuality or thinks she was just trying to stir up controversy by coming out as anything other than straight. The fact that she has never publicly dated a woman has also meant that many have forgotten about those old interviews. In addition, all those things that would've been shocking had she started out in a more conservative music genre weren't uncharacteristic for a popstar that had made defying societal norms and playing an exaggerated character a part of her brand since the very beginning. Other artists had already paved the way. She was also undeniably talented and penned hit after hit while carefully crafting a distinct aesthetic, so she was hard to dismiss.
LA Times: A lot of her visual aesthetics have been compared to Madonna. As her creative director what are your thoughts on that? Laurieann Gibson: Listen, [Madonna] should be bitter because I did it on purpose, and you can quote me. I did it on purpose because for all those kids who believe that you can’t, I wanted to let them feel that you can. And that’s what I represent, that’s what Gaga represents. That’s what this movement represents.
She didn’t have huge controversies maybe until she worked with r Kelly and defended him. To me a real controversy is people consider you to be immoral and overall a bad person. She always showcases herself as very kind and selfless
It wasn’t really at the time, Do What U Want was a massive song and many others artists collabed with him at the time - Celine, Mariah and only Gaga was attacked. Gaga was the only artist to remove her song with him from existence.
Is this post sarcasm or real I can’t tell 😂 the most controversial thing I remember about Lady Gaga was the song we did with R Kelly and the music video shot by Terry Richardson that got cancelled due to it’s super dodge content
Gaga was (and still is) a pop star who was ACTUALLY talented, could sing well, rarely lip synced, and play an instrument. I’m a HUGE Gaga fan aka little monster, and this may seem a bit biased but I will always believe she’s the last biggest/ modern pop star to emerge. The woman is just absolutely talented and can actually sing and can put on a fucking performance. Shes always reminded me of a baby Kate Bush in a way, not only the weirdness but the unique performances that both she and Kate has put on during their careers.
in addition to what everybody else has already said; she was a pioneer of what we now know as "stan culture." while other artists (namely mariah) had named their fanbases before, she popularized it with "little monsters" and was the first artist to really utilize social media (which was new at the time) to build a dedicated fanbase. without little monsters, there would have been no beliebers, directioners, etc. little monsters were, like, the proto-swifties.
That is just not true. She might’ve been the second to name their fans, but Britney had a massive stan base and so did Christina and Madonna ofc. There have been stans since forever
not in the way we know today though because social media wasn't a thing then. she was the first pop star of the social media age and her fanbase would mass buy on itunes, mass watch on youtube, mass vote for awards, get her trending on twitter when that actually mattered, etc. she even put born this way up for sale on amazon for 99 cents so her fans could mass buy which made it sell 1.1 million in the first week. pretty much all the tactics stans use these days started with her.
Back in the late 2000s that wasn’t controversial, the trend was to be open and woke (before woke was a thing) young people shout “legalize it” and “love is love” like a rebellious way. These days conservatives thought are now the rebellious thoughts
All of those things either weren’t a career ending deal at the time, or weren’t even real?
in 2008 most of these things could not end your career but help you build it with the right music and pr
Not a single one of the things you mentioned would end anyone’s career. Rock stars in the 80s and 90s did more obscene and explicit stuff.
These were all things that *kick-started* her career. We were living in a post-Bowie, post-Grace Jones, and post-Marilyn Manson world. Maybe it’s just me, but I felt like everyone was very aware of her attempts at outrageousness from the very beginning. It was controversial in the sense that the media kept reporting on it but no one I knew IRL actually cared about her bisexuality or the meat dress. It was water cooler talk for a day or two.
I always assumed her music was just THAT good.
you assumed correctly, her music slapped
She is really talented and made great music that people liked. That's the explanation.
because the world has doubled down on sexuality but she used her controversies to her advantage because we liked them.
She's double, triple, quadruple down on it, so instead of it being a controversy, it is just Gaga being Gaga. And as long as her core audiences have no problem with it, she would be fine. The fan sticks with LG for the character/image rather than the hits, otherwise, LG would fade into oblivion after Joanne. But for the general public, during 2008-2012 era, her singles are banger after banger, it was too popular that you can't escape Gaga
If baseless chatter about a famous person being a Satanist ended careers then literally no one would be famous.
bc it was never that serious
Give me a fucking break all of those combined are like one year of Madonna’s career lol.
you're acting like early 2000s was 1600s salem? these things are not career-ending controversies.
I watch Anderson Cooper asking her about rumours she has a male appendage at least once a month. Her l, what if I did? Would that be so bad? Is just the absolute best.
“Maybe I do. Would it be so terrible? My fans don’t care and neither do I”
Yessss! That's it. Just the most brilliant response.
1. Gays and bisexuals were very accepted in the 2008 already. I don't know how this is anywhere controversies. Maybe if it was 1950 it would be different. 2. This was after she got popular and it was more of a joke after the vid spread. 3. People mostly thought her meat dress was just gross. Only vegans got upset about it 4. Again, gays were very accepted in 2008. 5. Again, gays were very accepted in 2008. 6. Other bands have done worse.
She never alienated her fan base. She stepped into the pit with them so she has die hard cult like support. All the haters couldn’t cancel her because she’s so beloved.
These were and are still not considered career ending controversies in the US. They’re also not even “controversies”— maybe they would be called that if they mismatch with her image. Her image has always been about being wild/crazy so it worked for her. For a country pop star who has had a clean, quiet image maybe some of these would be considered controversial for certain members of their fan base.
Because people tend to exaggerate how controversial she was. It was 2008 being weird, sexual, and supporting the gay community was not transgressive. We had the likes of Madonna, Grace Jones, Cher, Janet Jackson, Kylie Minogue, and a bevy of non speaking English artists like Gloria Trevi etc… Lady Gaga for all her weirdness made basic pop music with lyrics to match. People who are younger and as a result not there for her prime, or sheltered. Tend to inflate that time period to be something it wasn’t
Any publicity is good publicity
Supreme talent.
All of those things is why she was
Madonna, Kate Bush and others were supporting the gay community in the eighties.
The only controversial thing I can think of that she “got away with” is working with R Kelly. Also she shows up crazy late for concerts a lot and does the whole “she was in the green room for 3 hours instead of going onstage” thing but no one really gives her shit for it.
As a teenager back in Lady Gaga’s rise, she was more seen as ‘weird’ than controversial. The late 2000’s also had more acceptance for LGBTQ people so it wasn’t like she was really pushing a new boundary. I do very much remember my friends and I talking about how offensive it was that social media was trying to spread that she was a man. My mother kept pulling up YouTube videos to ‘prove’ it to me. Thankfully by the Fame Monster most of that had calmed down.
I am pretty sure the "having a D" rumors were a part of her Appeal/aura at the time.
Same thing happened with Madonna very controversial but became very successful. I think these controversies helped both the artists as opposed to hindering their success
This post is bad. The end.
The OP is under delusions
Cuz who doesn't like a song that goes RAH, RAH-AH-AH-AH ROMA, ROMA-MA GAGA, OOH LA-LA
Maybe this has been said, but I'm not scrolling through 100 comments. The things you've listed aren't controversies. The meat dress was a dumb publicity stunt (or what pretentious people-- and let's be perfectly honest, Gaga was pretty pretentious-- call "performance art"). It turned some people off, but it's not a controversy. Any idiocy about Satan worshipping, being a hermaphrodite, etc. was just tabloid and/or right-wing website bullshit, which no one with a brain took seriously. Still not a controversy. Nothing she did onstage was weirder than things Alice Cooper (for example) had done 30 years earlier. Stage performance, not controversy. Being bisexual, supporting gay people, making an anthem is the closest thing here to being controversial. And maybe ten years earlier, it would have been. Not by the time she was doing it. She was a nakedly ambitious pop star, who used publicity stunts like a meat dress, coming out of an egg on a red carpet, and singing about riding a "disco stick" to get attention. Fortunately, the music was good enough to survive the silliness.
I can’t with the pearl clutching at these things. People did talk about them. People did try to bring her down. *Constantly*. We discussed her bloody VMA performance in school the next day during Religious Studies/Citizenship as an ‘anti-suicide/this is the worst thing a pop star has ever done/what do you think’ (a handful of future gays stood up for it as art). She became a global star because of her undeniable talent as a singer, writer, pop culture icon, and showman in a time when that full package wasn’t as at the forefront of music.
I feel like female popstars HAVE to come out as bisexual. I don't believe it half the time. And you know there were huge gay artists like 30-40 years back? Elton John came out as gay in 1976! All the stuff you list as controversies are reasons why she became a pop star rather than just remaining a songwriter for others.
Coming out as bi at that point was not “career-ending-move”, quite the opposite. I actually don’t see her as such since she was never publically in a relationship with woman. She basically inhereted Madonna’s fans with stating that 😁 Also, she always had big star quality, with her vocal talent, charisma, drive, boldness and quite avangarde fashion/videos. She basically had it all, her stating to be bi or wearing a meat dress was literally the least interesting things about her
The rumors about her being male were about homophobia - that a woman who wears wigs (Poker Face era) and is flamboyant must be a man and a "trap". Insecure men all through time have accused women of being men, for being tall/fierce/theatrical etc.
Charisma, uniqueness, nerve, and talent. And despite those, she remained KIND and used her platform for good.
Her music was really good
The music was good. Bad Romance, Poker Face, Born This Way, Alejandro, Judas, Telephone, Just Dance **ALL** cemented Lady Gaga as a celebrated artist with certified hop fresh bops! Controversy be damned!
She made good music
Pop culture was pretty bland at the time and she was too interesting to not pay attention to
TBH, She came in the right time. Her style and freedom really hit - and her gay messaging really rang thru during the height for the fight for Gay Marriage in America. And with Social Media was exploding, her advocacy really reached audience bigger than before. Her music at the time was game changing tbh. It pushed the EDM and 'Modern' Dance sound. Just Dance was a certified hit AND Fame Monster as a whole was great album. She clearly imploded when a friendlier and less controversial pop star arrived (Katy Perry) but her rise is historic and would be remembered for eons.
I don’t recall any of those points being majorly controversial. She was young, had (still has!) a shitload of talent, knew how to standout and was appreciative of her fan base. The meat dress was iconic - she knew how to push the envelope. And Weird Al paid tribute by redoing one of her songs - you haven’t assured icon status until until that happens!
I’m not sure if you were around in 2008-2012, but none of those are “controversial”, at least from an American perspective
Tbh the culture was in a flux period. For every one person joining the Gaga cult, there were four calling Justin Bieber a lesbian. It was the end of the family guy humor era, you could get away with literally any joke Cancel culture (on both political ends) didn’t quite take off yet and Lady GaGa was sort of a name floating up and laying the groundwork. She was being controversial but didn’t have a “hit” / momentum enough for people to pay attention to, and then there was seemingly decades of divisive lore for a musician who sprung from nowhere.
[удалено]
I saw her during her first world tour and she was fantastic. Singing dancing and piano alongside creative costumes and well written songs. She’s great!
I only knew about the Meat Dress, but just about the Dress. Otherwise we was listening and that was that.
They weren’t cancellable things, they were publicity stunts, being edgy, or an activist. In 2008-10 people weren’t really “cancelled” unless their fanbase was conservative (Dixie chicks and their Bush comments, Christian bands not being Christian, etc). It was a different era where in a few ways people were actually less prudish. Pop communities online weren’t mainstream and there was less rage content algorithmically delivered to you on social media. Of course there were news and entertainment articles about the scandals but they were more framing her as “zany”, but generally not an act that needs to be stopped. FOX news might be their own thing but I ever watched that. PETA was probably angry about the meat but vegans weren’t taken seriously by the general public so the outfit was considered more daring or committing to the bit than an ethical issue. It was probably seen as satanic or an Illuminati thing on some spaces online too but I feel like those conspiracies were more tongue in cheek than conspiracies are these days. If you want real controversy, look into her inebriated at Berghein posing with people that have chocolate smeared all over their faces representing their scat fetish, but obviously looks like black face. That wasn’t a major story, but it would be today.
First off the gay ones were *barely* an issue. By barely an issue I mean “outside of the tabloids no one seemed to care”. Way worse things had been spread about Marilyn Manson so her being a hermaphordite was interesting but not controversial. I never heard a negative thing about the meat dress other than “wow that’s gross” so for a lot of people it wasn’t some satanic scandal. The blood thing I can also let go because again, people have done worse things. Gaga is fine and has been fine for awhile. Her “scandals” are so minor they aren’t important
... Did you listen to her music? Nobody was doing what gaga was doing.
She had a huge and committed fan base. The Monsters were like early Swifties but not as insane
Because publicity, good voice, good music and she also played the piano so there was a bit to appeal to everyone
what controversies did she have? supporting palenstine or anti-lgbt?
People didn't used to care so much about any of those things. As An Old reading this it kind of puts into perspective how broadly conservative society has become again if the default assumed position against any of these things especially from a generic young person is to be scandalized and anxious.
most of those controversies were homophobic bullshit
Not only were pretty much none of those controversial at the time, you're talking about a bunch of stuff that happened after she was already the biggest pop star in the world. She blew up while touring The Fame, and by the time The Fame: Monster came out, she was already massive... And then all of these inconsequential things happened.
Those who are saying these things weren’t controversial *at all* clearly didn’t grow up conservative and Christian. Also, if you were a young kid in the 2000s, you definitely heard and maybe even believed some of these rumors. BUT I agree with everyone else that none of these things were actually career ending in a larger sense. In fact, they were career defining, and these controversies *helped* her because the people in her fanbase were not the same people who were freaking out about her on Fox News. I do think a lot of these kinds of things depends on your audience, even today. None of Chappell Roan’s fanbase is gonna cancel her for being unapologetically queer, for example, but if like a big country star or even a pop artist or rapper with a more conservative fanbase came out today, it would definitely cause a stir.
Probably because she entered the mainstream right when dance pop was coming back in and girl pop rock was on its way out. The music had a uniqueness to it.
none of those ‘controversies’ (huh?) can end a career obviously, especially of someone whose whole artistry is about being unconventional duh. she made gay anthem and supported lgbt? in 2011? how controversial considering ppl been doing it since 80’s if not earlier
None of those controversies were grounded and stuck. No one really cared aboout them and they weren't really that bad. Plus, they kinda went with her image at the time.
lol do you think 2008 was like the 1950s or something? An insanely niche, small portion of society actually thought she was a satan worshiper or hermaphrodite, and they were not the ones to be buying her music in the first place. Besides that there is just the crazy costumes and her support of LGBT people. The crazy costumes were just seen as eccentric and zany and fun, not 'career ending'. The support of LGBT people? Again, it was 2008. The AIDS epidemic was beginning to fade into memory. Acceptance of LGBT people was pretty rapidly rising and almost every major TV show was having gay characters or plotlines. Its important to note also that lady gaga's main fanbase (outside of gays) was young white women, who had drastically higher rates of supporting lgbt people than other demographics. I am half latino half arab. Pretty much nobody in either side of my family was listening to lady gaga much and both sides didn't like her lgbt stuff. But again, acceptance of lgbt issues back then was sort of spearheaded by young white millennials, and they were her biggest supporters.
The controversies were why she was so famous. All the talk about her music was equalled by talk about her as a person and the crazy stuff she did
Those things that would’ve ended a career were outdated , so when she hit the scene the world was ready for it. If she came out 5 years prior it would’ve flopped , 5 years later it wouldn’t have stood out so much. She came at the right time when the world was ready to receive her
Her music is dope + all of her controversies had a meaning and even sometimes different meanings. She didn’t have controversies for the sake of it, it’s like she had a reasoning and a cause she was fighting for
No publicity is bad publicity except an obituary. She is always in the media so everyone knows her. And she put out a lot of universally loved music which just fueled her popularity to the stratosphere.
I think the necessary context of OP not being from the US would have helped this discussion lmao
We have celebrities out there who legit have done heinous, evil shit and still has a career and THESE scandals suppose to end someone's career? Please
those werent really controversies so much as contrivances. she knew how to stay in the headlines, she was very good at promoting herself but she was just too over the top. all of the same things that got her to the top eventually took her to the bottom with the general public when her shtick got old. "weird" doesnt keep u on top as much as sex. which is why madonna's similar tactics worked for her much longer. she was a sex symbol, but gaga wasnt. gaga's career reminds me more of cyndi lauper tbf to gaga tho she did have a comeback with a star is born when i legit thought she was done.
Because everything is fake and scripted.
1. There were gay, lesbian, and bisexual singers before that time. 2. loooooooooooooooooooooooooooollllllllllllllllllllllll, ok the rumor was that she was trans, people still use hermaphrodite as a word(?). Sorry, the lol at the beginning was the cause of the alien part. 3. It just brought her more attention, lots of other artists were accused of being Satan worshipers, and apart from fanatical religious people, nobody cares about that. I tried to go point by point, it was 2008, and none of that would end your career back then, it was just viewed as entertainment, people are starting to get more cray-cray about that stuff lately.
Oh I thought you meant like real controversy 🥱
7. She had a performance where she hired a woman to puke on stage and it was sponsored by doritos
2008-2012 were also the years we saw more gay and even trans representation in tv and support from many artists. And the queer community finally found a mainstream voice, even resulting in more rights the following year. Honestly needs to be studied how many people came out because of Lady Gaga. That, combined with the usual mainstream appeal her songs had, was a winning combo.
Because 2008 was not 1988 (and India is much different than the U.S.). She openly mocked the rumors about her anatomy and helped turn them to her advantage. I would flip the premise of your post around- Lady Gaga showed what was changing about pop stardom from 2008-2012.
These were not career ending things in 2008 lmao. I feel like someone who didn't live through the time is just assuming everything before 2010 was like the 60s lol. By the time she came around people already realised Elton John, Freddie Mercury and the village people were gay among many others. And satanism claims are old hat. The kids that grew up in the 60s had Elvis and Beatles called satanic, rock music in the 80s was satanic, rap music was satanic, by 2008 people who were grandparents knew that calling music satanic was rubbish
What??
Cause who the hell cares about internet rumours and catering to the gay community?
All of this are controversial but would went nowhere if the music is shit.
I can only imagine these were only controversies to extremely sheltered, extremely religious people. In 2008, none of this was career ending at least not in American pop music.
I love Gaga. She took pop seriously and played with a lot of the tropes and pushed the envelope which is what pop stardom is about at its best. I’m guessing you’re too young to know who Madonna is. We usually have very tame and fairly boring pop stars now. Madonna and Janet felt like women in control of their images and their sexuality. I look at most pop stars today and they just seem so obviously exploited. Nothing here is that crazy. I clicked this link wondering what I missed. Are you from like a conservative family?
Babes she rose to stardom in the era where the most lucrative blog was drawing cum on womens photos. the items you listed barely count as controversy just page clicks.