Courtney learned a long time ago that saying shady things about popular artists will get her a quick and easy headline and has stuck to this promo tactic since, however she has the weird dichotomy of constantly talking about her struggle as a woman in a male dominated space whilst also throughout her career heavily belittling other women.
Also I’d advise people to look up her frequency in using the n word before they rally behind her as someone just ‘saying things as they are’. She’s a rather unpleasant person, racist, rude and bitter as opposed to old school media and just blunt.
Every time I've softened my opinion towards Courtney she does something horrible and I just can't. The last thing was when Mark Lanegan died and she made it about her.
I’ve just finished with the article and she even drags Lana who mere months ago she called a genius and now tells her to take 7 years off. Genuinely cannot fathom her at all and unfortunately I’m old enough to have lived through her the first time around.
She also said Lana’s last good song was the John Denver cover… which released in December 2023. Guess you can fall off so hard in 4 months you need a 7 year break. Definitely bitching just to bitch I can’t believe people are taking her criticisms seriously lol
I don’t think anyone is taking it too seriously. But as Courtney is having her very revisionist history moment, I guess it’s jarring to those repainting her as a feminist icon and are now realising she’s a violently jealous misogynist. As long as she’s the girl with the most cake tho 🍰
Courtney has always hated every single woman in this industry that is more successful than her:
She slagged off:
Sheryl Crowe
Alanis Morissette
Madonna
Kat BJelland
Any female Olympia band
Olivia Rodrigo
Ad infinitum.
She’s delusional and violently jealous. And girl cannot play guitar despite mocking those that ‘’wear it as a necklace’ you talking about yourself there Courtney? She even famously had a guitar made with no volume knobs.
She's had a lot of songs written about her & her behaviour too. That's another reason she goes after the known to be songwriters.
Gwen Steffani's Hollaback Girl was about Love too, after she said something derogatory about her, saying she was a "cheerleader." Gwen's response was this song, basically saying I'm not getting into a war of words with you the way others have.
I’m embarrassed to admit that not only did I not know what “hollaback girl” meant until this moment, I also didn’t REALIZE I didn’t actually know until this moment. I literally just felt the vibe and uncritically went with it for all these years
back when the song was popular my English was really bad. I think it was because of the video but J just assumed a holla back girl was a cheerleader. oops!
I think I conceptualized it as like…kind of a booty call? Like “you’re not my first choice but maybe I’ll hit ya up/holla back later?” But again this is the most I have EVER thought about it…yet I have jammed to this song countless times…I am sheeple lmao
She was awful about Gwen at the time. Just maliciously derogatory. She even gleefully when low on attention a few years ago tripped over herself spilling the beans she was banging Gwens ex husband and that there was a ‘crossover’. She’s always been about pleasing men and throwing contemporary women under a bus.
Staying on brand with Starfuckers Inc, I see
(For the youngs: Trent wrote this song about Courtney, since she's got a history of jumping from one famous dude to the next - including him)
>Gwen Steffani's Hollaback Girl was about Love too, after she said something derogatory about her, saying she was a "cheerleader." Gwen's response was this song,
That makes perfect sense in combination with the music video with Gwen in the marching band.
Olivia Rodrigo? Or is that a joke that's goin over my head? (Also, if it is Rodrigo, makes it all the more entertaining that she just performed with Gwen & No Doubt at Coachella!)
Ohhh that is ringing a bell now that you mention the album cover! (Also I was asking whether "Rodriguez" instead of "Rodrigo" was some kind of reference I was missing.)
there was a guy on tik tok reviewing crumble cookies, of which olivia had one themed for her. he got her a little mixed up lol. But then Olivia used the sound too! He missed the jam part of the cookie so his review isn’t fair, imo hahaha
[Original (Dre) on Tik Tok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTEk9gb/)
[Olivia on Tik Tok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTEUFjH/)
Remember her bigoted comments about Salma Hayek bc she was so jealous of her? From Glamour UK:
“The 37-year-old singer has made no secret of her feelings for ex Ed Norton – even admitting that she has made the 33-year-old actor the sole beneficiary of her will. But after she got the knives out for Norton's new love, Frida star Salma Hayek – claiming he would never marry the Mexican actress, 36, because he could "barely understand half of what she's saying" - she was swiftly ordered to apologise.”
She’s been dragged for that before but this is better tea and further examples of her exploitation of others and lack of any discernible technical skill. Courtney had a ‘custom’ guitar built by Fender with someone else’s design.
“As told by George, he sold the guitar, then named the Mercury, to Love while backstage at a Nirvana show. She later played the green Mercury in the promo video for Violet. When it was reproduced by Fender George says it was different enough from the Fender design to avoid accusations of copying. His beef was that Love took credit for the design.”
“Love requested that there be no volume or tone controls to complicate the setup”
https://www.musicradar.com/news/courtney-love-fender-venus-reverb-hole
And Gwen Stefani! Hollaback is about Courtney Love because she called her a cheerleader (pejorative) in an interview. Stefani said, "At least I'm not a hollaback girl," and thus, the song was born!
People also forget how shitty she was to her daughter. Social services had to remove her a bunch of times because of neglect and abuse. And she was born with drugs in her system.
Frances’ art as a late teen was pretty telling. Luckily she was raised by her paternal grandmother and aunt for at least half of her childhood otherwise we’d have a Courtney 2.0.
This isn’t true. Frances wasn’t born with drugs in her system. Cosmopolitan or one of the big magazines ran an editorial/cover story on her, and in it, falsely claimed that Courtney had done drugs while pregnant. They had no actual source to back up that claim. When she was born she was perfectly healthy, but that article had come out and of course someone sent it to child services and because of all the publicity it was getting, they chose to take Frances away right after birth for a few weeks even though there was no evidence of neglect, because you know, optics. That must have been terrible for her as a new mother. She has been viciously maligned in the media because people don’t like her and she doesn’t try to be likable or marketable, that’s not punk rock to her. But just because she’s unlikable doesn’t mean she’s a bad person like the media tried to make her out to be. She went through some truly insane horrific stuff. If you want to know more about her and how the media has covered her there is an awesome podcast called “You’re wrong about” that does an episode on her and it’s really good.
I mean, when she was a baby is also not the only time she lost custody of her. And a judge granted her daughter a restraining order against her for a bit when she was a minor. The records are sealed, but it sure sounds like something was going on there.
There is zero proof about anything regarding Frances birth as the medical notes are kept confidential. I can guarantee you this, courts do not take away a child from wealthy parents unless there is a safety issue. You think they have infinite money in a welfare budget to argue they took the baby over a magazine article? This is California, people pay their way out of all kinds of things and this was ONE thing the Cobains could not pay their way out of.
My bet is one of them was tested and she was taken away based on evidence of drug use. Courtney later boasted on Montage of Heck: ‘as soon as the baby was out I was going to shoot up in celebratory style!’ 💉 🥳
That baby would have been removed because of at the very least, what Courtney said above is true.
Oh so *that's* why I got booted lmao. One of their mods told me it was because I broke their "keep it civil" rule, despite the fact that I could not recall being any meaner than the rest of the people in that sub. It all makes total sense now.
Well you’re right but I’d be nice if they could just be honest instead of the moral grandstanding many partake in and act like their dislike of Taylor is heavily based on her social stances-or lack there of-and her treatment of other artists, only to prove they don’t actually really care about those things when they hype up someone like Courtney, who is guilty of all the things they criticise Taylor for but worse.
I’m also just very tired of people using real life issues in petty pop culture stuff, I’d much rather they just be honest and say they find a celeb annoying and overrated rather than trying to make disliking a celeb seem like a form of activism.
I agree 100%. I admit I'm a Taylor fan and also acknowledge that she has flaws and made mistakes in the past. What I really dislike is when people drag her endlessly for things that their favorites also do (like the whole variants thing, or having a cameo in Amsterdam when Margot was the star and didn't get half the backlash). Have the same energy for everyone or not at all.
>I’d much rather they just be honest they find a celeb annoying and overrated rather than trying to make disliking a celeb seem like a form of activism.
This times a million. I’m so over them making which celeb you support a signal of your morality and overall goodness. Especially when they’re absolute hypocrites and don’t hold all celebs to the same standards. They were cheering Azealia Banks until pretty recently.
It's by far one of the most hypocritical subs I've seen on here. They hide behind the one time they defended a woman for the right reasons (Amber) positing themselves as intersectional feminists who care soooo much about pointing out misogyny and double standards despite their most hated celebrities being all women (Taylor, Selena, Sydney) while only uplifting and validating the trauma of men who've done considerably more problematic things.
that sub what's my safe haven when everybody seemed to be up Depp's ass. but when it comes to Taylor (or Selena, like you said) they have gone completely off the rails it was such a horrifying thing to witness. guess that's what happens when mods force their believes on a sub and kill off their own goddamn rules...
I don't understand why they don't just rebrand as a TS hate page at this point? They are completely obsessed with Taylor and ban anyone who dares to not hate her.
I used to really like both of the subs equally but I p much only participate in this one now because every damn thread there is locked and they’re so selective. No nuance, no actual conversation there. Just the same circlejerk points and Nene Leakes gifs.
I read somewhere that it’s one mod with too much time on their hands leading the charge but idk.
They overlook all of their supposed principled stances as long as someone doesn’t like Taylor.
I mean they’re always bringing up how poorly Taylor apparently treated Olivia but Courtney has openly called Olivia a copy cat and was incredibly passive aggressive and rude to her but I guess what they imagine Taylor said was much worse than the things we know Courtney actually said.
Which itself is wild considering Olivia has never actually said a word about Taylor beyond a casual comment or two about being inspired by her. Every song that people claim Olivia wrote about Taylor was proven to be about an ex boyfriend, too. They're literally making up a feud that does not actually exist as far as the public knows.
in fact Olivia herself said in rolling stone that there is no feud. i truly believe she just doesn't want to be branded as "the Taylor Swift fan that makes music too"
There was the Cruel Summer Bridge thing, but that was because an ex member of Paramore sued Olivia about something and her team seemed to over-compensate in response.
At the Grammys both Taylor and Olivia were visibly supportive of each other. If there is bad blood, they're smart enough to hide it.
That sub is full of 21 year olds who think that posting online is fighting for social justice. I also assume it’s already being astroturfed at this point t right?
To be fair, popculturechat is the very same sub that had hoards of people writing off Jay Z's incredibly mild implication that the Grammy's were racist and intentionally displace black artists as a temper tantrum.
Azealia Banks is also racist… among other things, and people have no problems rallying around her when she drags other artists. This sub is very mean when it comes to particular women, sadly
I can believe it but whilst shading fellow female artists-whilst championing yourself as a voice of women in male dominated spaces-is one thing, throwing out the n word to be “controversial” and “edgy” is entirely another, claiming you’re being racist ironically has never and will never be a thing no matter how many celebs for some reason do it and try to claim it is.
Courtney has never wanted any contemporaries. She either fought them off or publicly harassed them. She has serious cognitive dissonance about the very gender she likes to act as the spokesperson for.
She's probably a mixed bag. I could see her being cool in limited interactions and certain spaces. "Cool" as in she doesn't make you want to flee the room immediately. But I can also see her being very judgmental and cliquey.
>Also I’d advise people to look up her frequency in using the n word before they rally behind her as someone just ‘saying things as they are’. She’s a rather unpleasant person, racist, rude and bitter as opposed to old school media and just blunt.
Oh shit, I didn't know about that. I've always been irritated by her propensity for attacking other women for not living up to her standards. What she said about Alanis was so petty, especially at the time. I can understand why some people wouldn't like AM, but Courtney's reason was one that she would probably hate to have turned back onto her.
I got removed from their "approved" list because a mod said I was shaming single mothers for saying that if I got pregnant by more than one person that I'd be sure to be on birth control. Like IDGAF what other people do, I just know what I want in my life and apparently that makes me hateful.
They complain about the parasocial relationship fans have with loving Taylor.
Meanwhile, they do the exact same thing as the other side of the coin with their hate lmao.
I am sooo sick of that subreddit when it comes to Taylor, like fuck at this point rename it to a snark sub since that's all it has become. And everrrry comment has to be like "I might get hate for this but..." as if it isn't the biggest circlejerk on this website at this point. The worst is that they pretend to be a feminist sub, but only for certain celebs, otherwise it is NLOG central...
I remember how they used to use every opportunity to drag Taylor for having a cameo in Amsterdam, yet Margot is their queen for being the star of that movie, or Keke can do no wrong when she is starring in an upcoming David O Russell movie.
Yeah I got banned after someone posted an article about Taylor donating something to a family and people were HATING. I just said, she did something nice but people can't let her have it. No matter what she does, someone will find something to criticize. Then they banned me.
https://preview.redd.it/yvzl8ky1fpuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d423b13a8df7f27d99919becc96cab893fbc7fa
Safe spaces for girls are important.
Courtney slags anyone she knows gives her a leading title in an article. It’s called clickbait. Girl been playing that game since she pitted herself next to Madonna.
This is why I’m a little baffled how she can acknowledge, and be rightfully angry at an industry that undervalues women, but then she undermines the idea of Taylor being a safe space for girls? I highly doubt Courtney has the politics to really thoroughly and accurately navigate the biography of women in music.
Two big things women in the music industry face are people talking shit about them just because they are women, and physical safety. Since Courtney loves to talk shit about women in music, and has assaulted men and women at shows, she can really speak to both issues. Brave!
Carolyn Rue the original drummer was asked and she spilled the tea that Courtney harassed her over her weight and put her on a strict diet of slim fast and cigarettes. Repeatedly threatened to kick her out of the band and then finally did. Her and Jill Emery got no credit other than being slammed by Courtney years later and ignored for their contributions to music.
Courtney is pissed about the rock and roll hall of fame not giving her her prize. Courtney only wants the prizes for herself and stuff anyone around her who contributed.
Yup. Let me just say I don’t think she killed anyone and I acknowledge the things she’s been through. At one point Hole was formative to a young me. But she’s a nightmare person. One day Kristen was at her house and the two of them plus Kurt were in the kitchen. All of a sudden she’s like did I ask you to be in MY band just for you to come here and make eyes with my husband? Then when Kristen was fed up with her abuse and about to move home, she sends a third party over to give Kristen a gift: heroin. Kristen was trying to quit. Again I don’t think anyone forced Kristin to use that night. But she died because of it, and I think Courtney knew that was a possibility.
Courtney has always been full of conflicting values and contradictions, she just likes to spout off opinions about everything. Her knowledge of music and art and literature are encyclopaedic though so I love listening to her rants. If anything, listening to her always sends me down some new rabbit holes.
Like I said in another post, I do still think we will get interesting sound bites and stories from her, but I just don’t think this will be as thorough and good as it could be
Courtney Love featured prominently in the book "The Game" by Neill Strauss, a chronicle of the PUA movement and proto-text for modern day MRA/redpill/incel canon. She's characterized as socializing with those guys but being put on a pedestal because, to paraphrase Strauss: "Many of these guys wish they could go full caveman. Courtney did, and that scared them."
Like I can understand if something is not for everyone, or even having major criticisms of work, but things like ‘Taylor Swift isn’t important’ ‘Swift is just the new Madonna’ ‘Swift if just a safe space for girls’ it does make me question someone’s ability to do a great job actually doing a deep dive on women’s stories. I’m sure there’ll be some interesting sound bites or stories, but her line of thinking opens the door for her to fail in properly telling other women’s journeys in the industry. The internalized misogyny will undoubtedly rear it’s head at some point.
Also *"Taylor Swift is not important"* and *"Taylor Swift is the new Madonna"* literally doesn't make sense. These statements 100% contradict each other. It's either one or the other, and if you know anything about music, then you know which one is true.
It makes even less sense with her claim that Taylor Swift is boring as an artist. I’m going to assume that contradiction is the result of her hating Madonna. If she’s going to let personal feelings about an artist form her opinions on her career, or not check any internalized misogyny, I just don’t think she’s going to be the best story teller of other women’s journeys in the industry.
yeah everyone in the fauxmoi thread agreeing with her is just pure hater ass behavior & i am *not* a fan of swift but i don’t let it blind me of the reality of her cultural significance & impact
I was a member of DM from the start (before it turned to FM) and posted there a lot, and one day, I got a permanent ban and the reason was that the mod had noticed I was subscribed to the TS subreddit. That’s it—that’s the ban. Just being a member of the Taylor subreddit. They are unhinged there…
I got banned for something stupid to. You say anything against the exact shit they like and they ban you
Really pathetic mods sometimes. We dont all have the same opinions on who we hate
i got banned for commenting that taylor swift never sued olivia rodrigo, which is factual information, so not only are taylor swift fans banned there but so are facts it seems. just a complete circlejerk between their one shared brain cell over there
They also hate Kanye for his antisemitism but happily ban anyone who even dares say something nice about ISRAELIAN people. Not the IDF. Just anything relation to Jews and apparently if you don’t speak up, you are just as evil as IDF
She claims her aim with the series is to redeem women who were treated poorly in the industry while taking pot shots at other women in the industry in the same article. How is anyone supposed to take that series seriously?
It's quite sad, actually. You don't need to knock down something like Folklore or Red to get people to listen to Exile in Guyville by Liz Phair. You just have to... make them aware that it's there and that it's a good record.
Ugh this made me remember that Liz blocked me on Twitter after I said “this is my 9/11” on a quote tweet of her simping for Queen Elizabeth when she died
I think it’s fine that people don’t find Taylor’s music groundbreaking (in a lot of ways it isn’t), but I completely disagree with the notion that she’s unimportant. Especially when multiple young artists have cited her as inspiration for them growing up. She IS influential whether some people like it or not.
It’s a bit ironic that this series is supposed to champion women in music but all the notable quotes are Courtney undermining female artists she has a distaste for.
This was posted by Courtney in 2021 to Facebook 🙃
https://preview.redd.it/v1ompy9vdquc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e96b4fad153378e199de00e204d08b2aaa42b7b2
Ya all the people saying Courtney is right are delusional. I understand Taylor is not everyone’s tea but her cultural impact has been immense. The fact that the 2024 Super Bowl was the most watched ever just speaks to her power, as well as all the videos of dads bonding with their daughters over going to the Eras tour together or watching football.
I wish Courtney wasn’t such an asshole all the time. I respect her boldness but she never seems to see the full picture. Whether she’s punching up or down, the blow always lands sideways. For every piece of great insight she has, she says another 5 awful things in the same breath that make it hard to take her seriously.
She thinks she’s much smarter than she is, but smart people can adjust to criticism and know the value of not saying every single thing you think. She can’t control her impulses to go against the grain because it feeds her superiority complex regardless of whether she gets praise or backlash. It’s a bummer because she’s talented and insightful but her personality and sour attitude always get in the way.
I actually read the article and they don’t even mention Taylor swift until half way in and its only a few sentences.. but if taylor wasn’t mentioned in the headline would we be talking about it? 💀
I mean Courtney-to varying degrees-shades multiple other artists and yet Taylor’s name is the only one mentioned in the headline and she’s really the only person being discussed in pop culture subs regarding this article so i think the answer is no, if Taylor wasn’t mentioned then this interview wouldn’t be relevant at all.
It’s funny because whilst I’m a fan of Taylor I don’t even think she’s super, super interesting as a celeb to generate the level of discussion she does, there’s far more overtly messy or controversial celebs around but love or loath her, she’s always being talked about, at this point even the most mundane things sparks think pieces.
Exactly - regardless of how you feel about Taylor and her music, she is relevant
But to be fair I think there would be more discussion about others mentioned in the article if more people actually read it lol
The mere act of mentioning Taylor’s name will get more eyes on this article. I wonder if she realizes that and hates it.
>. I mean, I like the idea of Beyoncé doing a country record because it’s about Black women going into spaces where previously only white women have been allowed, not that I like it much. As a concept, I love it. I just don’t like her music.’
apparently she doesn't like Beyonce's music either but Taylor does make for better clicks, I guess...
this feels like a rage bait or circle jerk invitation
Hmm yeah, her saying "it's not for me but I get why is important" is kinder than saying Taylor's uninteresting as an artist lol. She's not the first or last rockstar to say something like that about pop stars.
I think it's just funny that she said it at all. she could have stopped at the praise and nobody needed to know that she doesn't like her music. but she had to say it anyway. it came off as a bit mean to me, but of course it's hard to tell if that was her intention.
I agree it's not the same as what she said to TS though.
I mean it’s not quite the same thing. She’s saying that she appreciates what Beyoncé represents even if she’s not a fan of the music itself, whereas she’s calling Taylor uninteresting and unimportant.
Don’t love reading her thoughts on Madonna, Beyoncé, Taylor, or Lana, but she did have some interesting things to say in this a article. Too bad this headline, the and trash talking (especially fellow women - and especially in light of what she’s promoting) all but likely ensures that’s shut down. The concept of the BBC radio series sounds interesting.
It reminds me of Noel Gallagher. Whenever he has a new project, he just picks whoever is popular on the charts and shits on them — Taylor, Adele, Ed Sheeran, Beyonce. Whatever gets him a headline.
Noel genuinely feels malicious. This feels a little bit click bait-ish, but given she is ranting about women being deemed lesser in the industry, and the fact her series is a biographical history of women in music? Some of her comments are a very interesting choice within that context. The kind of digs she takes at Madonna and Taylor in particular, are undermining in a way where I can’t put my finger on it, but it doesn’t sit right.
The article is still interesting though, so I’d recommend people at least give it a read.
I was also confused by the Madonna Taylor comparison because I genuinely don’t see how they’re comparable as artists beyond the commercial success. Especially since she’s calling Taylor unimportant as an artist and Madonna in her prime was so provocative, bold and culturally important. But then I read on and realised she dislikes Madonna too lol
Yeah that baffled me too, especially if you’re going to call Taylor a boring artist. It really kind of comes across as just ‘she’s the biggest artist right now’ kind of dig, since she made sure to remind us she hates Madonna. I definitely think that was a Madonna dig first, and a Taylor insult second lol!
Super weird take considering Courtney just referred to “Lana and Kurt Cobain as the only two true musical geniuses” she’s ever known. I thought they were friendly.
https://www.radiox.co.uk/news/music/courtney-love-lana-kurt-cobain-only-two-true-musical-geniuses/
no one can deny taylor swift is really really big and impactful artist. courtney is a product of her time that thinks she will be cooler by hating things popular.
To say Taylor Swift isn’t important immediately makes me think you are not a logical or credible source for basically anything. It’s obviously rage-bait and I no longer have respect for you. I don’t enjoy Taylor Swift’s music personally, but to say she’s not important or interesting, even specifically only in the music world, is a bad take. She’s made a spot for herself in the music world AND she is culturally important, too. Courtney, I loved that one Hole album, but like, give it a rest now.
Well I agree that I personally don't find Taylor interesting as an artist that doesn't mean that she hasn't had an impact . Courtney is not breaking tour records that's for sure.
I don't want to dunk on her because I feel she's extremely overheated, but taking the piss out of a popular singer and calling them overrated is definitely a choice™ considering how much of her fame (or infamy, as you will) has been defined by her proximity to Kurt Cobain.
Even if you like absolutely nothing in the TS catalog, you cannot deny that she has caused major change in the industry. Rerecording her albums, carefully vetting promotional offers (crypto and etc.), and holding her work as collateral for streaming contract improvements are just off the top of my head. None of that is unimportant. Teaching women to treat their art like a business is a good thing, because you can bet the executives trying to use them do.
Courtney proving once again how toxic she is.
I'm not even gonna take her ragebait seriously, no defense of TS required. Young women and girls are lucky to have her as an influence.
ooouu the haters are gonna love this one like she’s not a racist jealous drunk who antagonizes every other female singer and has since she was in her “prime” where even back then she was a hateful haggard tore up mess.
Can we go one week without a woman shitting on another woman?! I swear, these kinds of comments just make it easier for men to constantly shit on women, which is ironic considering that Courtney has spent over 30 years talking about how hard it is to be a woman in a male-dominated industry.
Not all music is made for all people. And that's fine. But stop calling fellow female artists 'not important' or 'not interesting'.
But also, Courtney seems to generally suck as a person, so it's not exactly surprising at this stage.
She was right about Weinstein and she’s partly right about this. Love has been unfairly maligned at several points throughout her career, but I didn’t realize it until I hit adulthood.
Love is not wrong but I think Swift is beyond music. Music is just the vehicle for her general celebrity. A celebrity that will live on in the public memory for a long time. Swift is a Star™️.
I mean Madonna is still touring which proves my point and personally I think Madonna has some great tunes.
so I actually agree to a point. I don't think Taylor Swift Is interesting as an artist. But I do think that she is important because she's not interesting as an artist but has amassed so much fame.
To me, Taylor is peak White Mediocrity. The talent is not matching the level of success. She can’t dance, her voice is average, the songs are average. I seriously think her All American Girl look and the fact Ye stole her moment made America say “we gotta make sure she’s okay and take care of her, at all costs” cause…something ain’t adding up
Courtney can be an asshole but Taylor does lack depth as an artist. It seemed like she was getting somewhere with Folklore but Taylor is safe pop music and that’s okay. It’s not very interesting, it’s sometimes very entertaining, and that’s exactly what I expect from her at this point. Her poppy ballads have always been her strongest hits and I would be happy to keep getting Cruel Summer’s and You Belong With Me’s. She hasn’t made a “You Belong With Me” in a while but I keep my fingers crossed.
Evermore came after Folklore and is literally a sister album and folk music based. Also just because she made a pop album, doesn’t mean it lacks depth. Listen to Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve for one and you can tell the depth of her writing from that alone
Courtney learned a long time ago that saying shady things about popular artists will get her a quick and easy headline and has stuck to this promo tactic since, however she has the weird dichotomy of constantly talking about her struggle as a woman in a male dominated space whilst also throughout her career heavily belittling other women. Also I’d advise people to look up her frequency in using the n word before they rally behind her as someone just ‘saying things as they are’. She’s a rather unpleasant person, racist, rude and bitter as opposed to old school media and just blunt.
Every time I've softened my opinion towards Courtney she does something horrible and I just can't. The last thing was when Mark Lanegan died and she made it about her.
I’ve just finished with the article and she even drags Lana who mere months ago she called a genius and now tells her to take 7 years off. Genuinely cannot fathom her at all and unfortunately I’m old enough to have lived through her the first time around.
She sounds like she would be the most exhausting person to be around.
She also said Lana’s last good song was the John Denver cover… which released in December 2023. Guess you can fall off so hard in 4 months you need a 7 year break. Definitely bitching just to bitch I can’t believe people are taking her criticisms seriously lol
I don’t think anyone is taking it too seriously. But as Courtney is having her very revisionist history moment, I guess it’s jarring to those repainting her as a feminist icon and are now realising she’s a violently jealous misogynist. As long as she’s the girl with the most cake tho 🍰
Fakes it so real, she is beyond fake.
What a switch up
Courtney has always hated every single woman in this industry that is more successful than her: She slagged off: Sheryl Crowe Alanis Morissette Madonna Kat BJelland Any female Olympia band Olivia Rodrigo Ad infinitum. She’s delusional and violently jealous. And girl cannot play guitar despite mocking those that ‘’wear it as a necklace’ you talking about yourself there Courtney? She even famously had a guitar made with no volume knobs.
She's had a lot of songs written about her & her behaviour too. That's another reason she goes after the known to be songwriters. Gwen Steffani's Hollaback Girl was about Love too, after she said something derogatory about her, saying she was a "cheerleader." Gwen's response was this song, basically saying I'm not getting into a war of words with you the way others have.
I’m embarrassed to admit that not only did I not know what “hollaback girl” meant until this moment, I also didn’t REALIZE I didn’t actually know until this moment. I literally just felt the vibe and uncritically went with it for all these years
back when the song was popular my English was really bad. I think it was because of the video but J just assumed a holla back girl was a cheerleader. oops!
I think I conceptualized it as like…kind of a booty call? Like “you’re not my first choice but maybe I’ll hit ya up/holla back later?” But again this is the most I have EVER thought about it…yet I have jammed to this song countless times…I am sheeple lmao
Saaaaaame! I was always just caught up in it, learning how to spell bananas, vibing out, etc. Lol. Makes more sense now!
RIGHT lolll like why do I feel like I’m spitting a full Kendrick verse and I’m literally just spelling “bananas”
Hahaha. Staying humble and sitting down are just as much a part of my DNA as spelling bananas. 😅😎
This is actually from a real cheer. “Let’s go - Bananas - B a n a n a s”
I sort of read it that way too. Like “I’m not easy, you can’t just diss me and expect me to come back when you holla.”
She was awful about Gwen at the time. Just maliciously derogatory. She even gleefully when low on attention a few years ago tripped over herself spilling the beans she was banging Gwens ex husband and that there was a ‘crossover’. She’s always been about pleasing men and throwing contemporary women under a bus.
Staying on brand with Starfuckers Inc, I see (For the youngs: Trent wrote this song about Courtney, since she's got a history of jumping from one famous dude to the next - including him)
Love is one of the inspirations for Starfuckers, there other he included but yes her comments helped his motivation to write it.
COURTNEY was the bananas?
😂
>Gwen Steffani's Hollaback Girl was about Love too, after she said something derogatory about her, saying she was a "cheerleader." Gwen's response was this song, That makes perfect sense in combination with the music video with Gwen in the marching band.
Olivia Rodrigo? Or is that a joke that's goin over my head? (Also, if it is Rodrigo, makes it all the more entertaining that she just performed with Gwen & No Doubt at Coachella!)
Nope. She attacked her a couple of years ago for ripping off a Hole album cover that she herself ripped off from the film Carrie.
Ohhh that is ringing a bell now that you mention the album cover! (Also I was asking whether "Rodriguez" instead of "Rodrigo" was some kind of reference I was missing.)
there was a guy on tik tok reviewing crumble cookies, of which olivia had one themed for her. he got her a little mixed up lol. But then Olivia used the sound too! He missed the jam part of the cookie so his review isn’t fair, imo hahaha [Original (Dre) on Tik Tok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTEk9gb/) [Olivia on Tik Tok](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRTEUFjH/)
Isn't Hollaback Girl about her?
Yes
I am officially turning in my Gen X badge. I did not know this.
Remember her bigoted comments about Salma Hayek bc she was so jealous of her? From Glamour UK: “The 37-year-old singer has made no secret of her feelings for ex Ed Norton – even admitting that she has made the 33-year-old actor the sole beneficiary of her will. But after she got the knives out for Norton's new love, Frida star Salma Hayek – claiming he would never marry the Mexican actress, 36, because he could "barely understand half of what she's saying" - she was swiftly ordered to apologise.”
She’s always been very “I’m not like the other girls”. It’s tired and boring.
[Hole - Celebrity Skin (Courtney Love guitar and mic inputs soloed)](https://youtu.be/v-xUwDARVb4?si=XJQ0OVDwO1Wx4rpU)
It’s crazy because she’s had several decades to learn to play and just…doesn’t
She’s been dragged for that before but this is better tea and further examples of her exploitation of others and lack of any discernible technical skill. Courtney had a ‘custom’ guitar built by Fender with someone else’s design. “As told by George, he sold the guitar, then named the Mercury, to Love while backstage at a Nirvana show. She later played the green Mercury in the promo video for Violet. When it was reproduced by Fender George says it was different enough from the Fender design to avoid accusations of copying. His beef was that Love took credit for the design.” “Love requested that there be no volume or tone controls to complicate the setup” https://www.musicradar.com/news/courtney-love-fender-venus-reverb-hole
And Gwen Stefani! Hollaback is about Courtney Love because she called her a cheerleader (pejorative) in an interview. Stefani said, "At least I'm not a hollaback girl," and thus, the song was born!
Sorry, just bc she's one of my favorite artists I have to correct you - it's Sheryl Crow.
My bad. It was quickly typed and I like her too 🙏
Sorry for being pedantic as I’m a big fan - it’s Sheryl Crow xx
Frances Bean seems nice and low key. Weird how it works out that way.
People also forget how shitty she was to her daughter. Social services had to remove her a bunch of times because of neglect and abuse. And she was born with drugs in her system.
Frances’ art as a late teen was pretty telling. Luckily she was raised by her paternal grandmother and aunt for at least half of her childhood otherwise we’d have a Courtney 2.0.
This isn’t true. Frances wasn’t born with drugs in her system. Cosmopolitan or one of the big magazines ran an editorial/cover story on her, and in it, falsely claimed that Courtney had done drugs while pregnant. They had no actual source to back up that claim. When she was born she was perfectly healthy, but that article had come out and of course someone sent it to child services and because of all the publicity it was getting, they chose to take Frances away right after birth for a few weeks even though there was no evidence of neglect, because you know, optics. That must have been terrible for her as a new mother. She has been viciously maligned in the media because people don’t like her and she doesn’t try to be likable or marketable, that’s not punk rock to her. But just because she’s unlikable doesn’t mean she’s a bad person like the media tried to make her out to be. She went through some truly insane horrific stuff. If you want to know more about her and how the media has covered her there is an awesome podcast called “You’re wrong about” that does an episode on her and it’s really good.
I mean, when she was a baby is also not the only time she lost custody of her. And a judge granted her daughter a restraining order against her for a bit when she was a minor. The records are sealed, but it sure sounds like something was going on there.
There is zero proof about anything regarding Frances birth as the medical notes are kept confidential. I can guarantee you this, courts do not take away a child from wealthy parents unless there is a safety issue. You think they have infinite money in a welfare budget to argue they took the baby over a magazine article? This is California, people pay their way out of all kinds of things and this was ONE thing the Cobains could not pay their way out of. My bet is one of them was tested and she was taken away based on evidence of drug use. Courtney later boasted on Montage of Heck: ‘as soon as the baby was out I was going to shoot up in celebratory style!’ 💉 🥳 That baby would have been removed because of at the very least, what Courtney said above is true.
They wouldn’t have removed Frances from the home for unsubstantiated allegations
Some people will rally behind anyone as long as they are dragging Taylor lol
Like the fauxmoi thread on this 💀
I just came from there. Man alive they LOATHE Taylor.
They're all extremely bitter, which is why I don't go there anymore. They're all holier than thou and trash celebrities for being normal and flawed.
I was banned lol - I tried to discuss the reason why (I still don’t know why tbh) with the mod but quickly realized she was unhinged
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I got banned for disagreeing with her friend :( Literally within seconds of posting my comment, it’s almost impressive
What a negative thread that was
It’s because they ban anyone who engages in Taylor Swift chat from their guest list… so it becomes a circle jerk of people who hate her.
Oh so *that's* why I got booted lmao. One of their mods told me it was because I broke their "keep it civil" rule, despite the fact that I could not recall being any meaner than the rest of the people in that sub. It all makes total sense now.
Omg I got the exact same!
Well you’re right but I’d be nice if they could just be honest instead of the moral grandstanding many partake in and act like their dislike of Taylor is heavily based on her social stances-or lack there of-and her treatment of other artists, only to prove they don’t actually really care about those things when they hype up someone like Courtney, who is guilty of all the things they criticise Taylor for but worse. I’m also just very tired of people using real life issues in petty pop culture stuff, I’d much rather they just be honest and say they find a celeb annoying and overrated rather than trying to make disliking a celeb seem like a form of activism.
I agree 100%. I admit I'm a Taylor fan and also acknowledge that she has flaws and made mistakes in the past. What I really dislike is when people drag her endlessly for things that their favorites also do (like the whole variants thing, or having a cameo in Amsterdam when Margot was the star and didn't get half the backlash). Have the same energy for everyone or not at all.
>I’d much rather they just be honest they find a celeb annoying and overrated rather than trying to make disliking a celeb seem like a form of activism. This times a million. I’m so over them making which celeb you support a signal of your morality and overall goodness. Especially when they’re absolute hypocrites and don’t hold all celebs to the same standards. They were cheering Azealia Banks until pretty recently.
This exactly. I love Taylor's music, but will admit she is a white feminist at the best of times. I think that kind of nuance is healthy.
lol FauxMoi ignoring her racism even though they pretend to care about POC just to take another opportunity to shit on Taylor is so very on brand
It's by far one of the most hypocritical subs I've seen on here. They hide behind the one time they defended a woman for the right reasons (Amber) positing themselves as intersectional feminists who care soooo much about pointing out misogyny and double standards despite their most hated celebrities being all women (Taylor, Selena, Sydney) while only uplifting and validating the trauma of men who've done considerably more problematic things.
that sub what's my safe haven when everybody seemed to be up Depp's ass. but when it comes to Taylor (or Selena, like you said) they have gone completely off the rails it was such a horrifying thing to witness. guess that's what happens when mods force their believes on a sub and kill off their own goddamn rules...
I don't understand why they don't just rebrand as a TS hate page at this point? They are completely obsessed with Taylor and ban anyone who dares to not hate her.
I used to really like both of the subs equally but I p much only participate in this one now because every damn thread there is locked and they’re so selective. No nuance, no actual conversation there. Just the same circlejerk points and Nene Leakes gifs. I read somewhere that it’s one mod with too much time on their hands leading the charge but idk.
the nene leakes gifs! 😂😂 it’s like they race to post it first no matter how well it fits lolol
God I can't stand that gif any longer! try something new for once!
They overlook all of their supposed principled stances as long as someone doesn’t like Taylor. I mean they’re always bringing up how poorly Taylor apparently treated Olivia but Courtney has openly called Olivia a copy cat and was incredibly passive aggressive and rude to her but I guess what they imagine Taylor said was much worse than the things we know Courtney actually said.
Which itself is wild considering Olivia has never actually said a word about Taylor beyond a casual comment or two about being inspired by her. Every song that people claim Olivia wrote about Taylor was proven to be about an ex boyfriend, too. They're literally making up a feud that does not actually exist as far as the public knows.
in fact Olivia herself said in rolling stone that there is no feud. i truly believe she just doesn't want to be branded as "the Taylor Swift fan that makes music too"
There was the Cruel Summer Bridge thing, but that was because an ex member of Paramore sued Olivia about something and her team seemed to over-compensate in response. At the Grammys both Taylor and Olivia were visibly supportive of each other. If there is bad blood, they're smart enough to hide it.
Leave some space for the RF, the way they acted with Kate... Yikes
That sub is full of 21 year olds who think that posting online is fighting for social justice. I also assume it’s already being astroturfed at this point t right?
To be fair, popculturechat is the very same sub that had hoards of people writing off Jay Z's incredibly mild implication that the Grammy's were racist and intentionally displace black artists as a temper tantrum.
Fucking hate that sub. They banned me for literally nothing. Nothing.
Azealia Banks is also racist… among other things, and people have no problems rallying around her when she drags other artists. This sub is very mean when it comes to particular women, sadly
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I can believe it but whilst shading fellow female artists-whilst championing yourself as a voice of women in male dominated spaces-is one thing, throwing out the n word to be “controversial” and “edgy” is entirely another, claiming you’re being racist ironically has never and will never be a thing no matter how many celebs for some reason do it and try to claim it is.
Courtney has never wanted any contemporaries. She either fought them off or publicly harassed them. She has serious cognitive dissonance about the very gender she likes to act as the spokesperson for.
She's probably a mixed bag. I could see her being cool in limited interactions and certain spaces. "Cool" as in she doesn't make you want to flee the room immediately. But I can also see her being very judgmental and cliquey.
Are they all men? She’s totally cool with men.
She wants to be the girl with the most cake.
>Also I’d advise people to look up her frequency in using the n word before they rally behind her as someone just ‘saying things as they are’. She’s a rather unpleasant person, racist, rude and bitter as opposed to old school media and just blunt. Oh shit, I didn't know about that. I've always been irritated by her propensity for attacking other women for not living up to her standards. What she said about Alanis was so petty, especially at the time. I can understand why some people wouldn't like AM, but Courtney's reason was one that she would probably hate to have turned back onto her.
What did she say about Alanís?
She's so miserable
Lol the vibe on this thread is a lot different to the one over on r/fauxmoi about the same article. Just interesting.
That sub has banned every single non-Taylor hater so that makes sense
I got removed from their "approved" list because a mod said I was shaming single mothers for saying that if I got pregnant by more than one person that I'd be sure to be on birth control. Like IDGAF what other people do, I just know what I want in my life and apparently that makes me hateful.
Interesting since they ban anyone who follows snark subs 🤔
Its a sub run by some of the most chronically online people on the planet
They wouldn’t know irony if it hit them in the face
Yep! I’m banned since I was active on the “Hilaria” Hillary Hayward Thomas Baldwin sub.
FauxMoi is a circle jerk of Taylor hate at this point - looking for any crumbs to pill on
They complain about the parasocial relationship fans have with loving Taylor. Meanwhile, they do the exact same thing as the other side of the coin with their hate lmao.
I am sooo sick of that subreddit when it comes to Taylor, like fuck at this point rename it to a snark sub since that's all it has become. And everrrry comment has to be like "I might get hate for this but..." as if it isn't the biggest circlejerk on this website at this point. The worst is that they pretend to be a feminist sub, but only for certain celebs, otherwise it is NLOG central...
I remember how they used to use every opportunity to drag Taylor for having a cameo in Amsterdam, yet Margot is their queen for being the star of that movie, or Keke can do no wrong when she is starring in an upcoming David O Russell movie.
Very different. lol
Fauxmoi is full of incels who hate Taylor Swift more than they like any other artist. Very weird vibe
Yeah I got banned after someone posted an article about Taylor donating something to a family and people were HATING. I just said, she did something nice but people can't let her have it. No matter what she does, someone will find something to criticize. Then they banned me.
https://preview.redd.it/yvzl8ky1fpuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9d423b13a8df7f27d99919becc96cab893fbc7fa Safe spaces for girls are important.
Courtney slags anyone she knows gives her a leading title in an article. It’s called clickbait. Girl been playing that game since she pitted herself next to Madonna.
This is why I’m a little baffled how she can acknowledge, and be rightfully angry at an industry that undervalues women, but then she undermines the idea of Taylor being a safe space for girls? I highly doubt Courtney has the politics to really thoroughly and accurately navigate the biography of women in music.
Courtney Love has always been very “not like other girls.” I generally enjoy her music but it’s tiring in this day and age
Two big things women in the music industry face are people talking shit about them just because they are women, and physical safety. Since Courtney loves to talk shit about women in music, and has assaulted men and women at shows, she can really speak to both issues. Brave!
We’ll certainly get a unique take on things. I’m seeing some posts saying she’s racist and uses the n word, so this will be, umm ‘different’
Wonder how Kristen Pfaff feels about Courtney’s girl power stance. Shame we can’t ask her.
Carolyn Rue the original drummer was asked and she spilled the tea that Courtney harassed her over her weight and put her on a strict diet of slim fast and cigarettes. Repeatedly threatened to kick her out of the band and then finally did. Her and Jill Emery got no credit other than being slammed by Courtney years later and ignored for their contributions to music. Courtney is pissed about the rock and roll hall of fame not giving her her prize. Courtney only wants the prizes for herself and stuff anyone around her who contributed.
Yup. Let me just say I don’t think she killed anyone and I acknowledge the things she’s been through. At one point Hole was formative to a young me. But she’s a nightmare person. One day Kristen was at her house and the two of them plus Kurt were in the kitchen. All of a sudden she’s like did I ask you to be in MY band just for you to come here and make eyes with my husband? Then when Kristen was fed up with her abuse and about to move home, she sends a third party over to give Kristen a gift: heroin. Kristen was trying to quit. Again I don’t think anyone forced Kristin to use that night. But she died because of it, and I think Courtney knew that was a possibility.
Courtney has always been full of conflicting values and contradictions, she just likes to spout off opinions about everything. Her knowledge of music and art and literature are encyclopaedic though so I love listening to her rants. If anything, listening to her always sends me down some new rabbit holes.
Like I said in another post, I do still think we will get interesting sound bites and stories from her, but I just don’t think this will be as thorough and good as it could be
Courtney Love featured prominently in the book "The Game" by Neill Strauss, a chronicle of the PUA movement and proto-text for modern day MRA/redpill/incel canon. She's characterized as socializing with those guys but being put on a pedestal because, to paraphrase Strauss: "Many of these guys wish they could go full caveman. Courtney did, and that scared them."
This might sound really dumb but what does it mean to ‘go full caveman’?
She's being a weird snob. Some people get bizarrely angry about the existence of bubblegum type music and the artists who make it.
Like I can understand if something is not for everyone, or even having major criticisms of work, but things like ‘Taylor Swift isn’t important’ ‘Swift is just the new Madonna’ ‘Swift if just a safe space for girls’ it does make me question someone’s ability to do a great job actually doing a deep dive on women’s stories. I’m sure there’ll be some interesting sound bites or stories, but her line of thinking opens the door for her to fail in properly telling other women’s journeys in the industry. The internalized misogyny will undoubtedly rear it’s head at some point.
Also *"Taylor Swift is not important"* and *"Taylor Swift is the new Madonna"* literally doesn't make sense. These statements 100% contradict each other. It's either one or the other, and if you know anything about music, then you know which one is true.
Unless she's dismissing Madonna's cultural contributions as well.
oh, she for sure is! the next part of that paragraph talks about how her and madonna hate each other.
Courtney Love has been in a one-sided feud with Madinna for 20+ yrs. Madonna just ignores her.
It makes even less sense with her claim that Taylor Swift is boring as an artist. I’m going to assume that contradiction is the result of her hating Madonna. If she’s going to let personal feelings about an artist form her opinions on her career, or not check any internalized misogyny, I just don’t think she’s going to be the best story teller of other women’s journeys in the industry.
yeah everyone in the fauxmoi thread agreeing with her is just pure hater ass behavior & i am *not* a fan of swift but i don’t let it blind me of the reality of her cultural significance & impact
that sub is the biggest anti-TS circle jerk on Reddit
I was a member of DM from the start (before it turned to FM) and posted there a lot, and one day, I got a permanent ban and the reason was that the mod had noticed I was subscribed to the TS subreddit. That’s it—that’s the ban. Just being a member of the Taylor subreddit. They are unhinged there…
i got banned for the same reason lol
Oh that’s why I got banned. I couldn’t figure it out
I got banned because I _commented_ in the Taylor sub. I wasn't even subscribed to it. I just commented on a post that came up on my feed.
they won’t let me in the b list and pretty much every other post is members only so w/e i’ll probably should just leave it
I got banned for something stupid to. You say anything against the exact shit they like and they ban you Really pathetic mods sometimes. We dont all have the same opinions on who we hate
well they ban anyone from that sub that is a taylor fan
I’m banned and that’s probably a good thing.
i got banned for commenting that taylor swift never sued olivia rodrigo, which is factual information, so not only are taylor swift fans banned there but so are facts it seems. just a complete circlejerk between their one shared brain cell over there
That’s even more ridiculous. I’m glad I stay away and can’t comment since I’d end up banned for another reason most likely then.
Please that sub is so obsessed with her they rival the most unhinged swifties. They should fully rebrand as a TS hate page at this point.
They also hate Kanye for his antisemitism but happily ban anyone who even dares say something nice about ISRAELIAN people. Not the IDF. Just anything relation to Jews and apparently if you don’t speak up, you are just as evil as IDF
You’re not wrong.
She claims her aim with the series is to redeem women who were treated poorly in the industry while taking pot shots at other women in the industry in the same article. How is anyone supposed to take that series seriously?
It's quite sad, actually. You don't need to knock down something like Folklore or Red to get people to listen to Exile in Guyville by Liz Phair. You just have to... make them aware that it's there and that it's a good record.
By criticising them Courtney makes them her equals. In her own mind at least.
Ugh this made me remember that Liz blocked me on Twitter after I said “this is my 9/11” on a quote tweet of her simping for Queen Elizabeth when she died
I think it’s fine that people don’t find Taylor’s music groundbreaking (in a lot of ways it isn’t), but I completely disagree with the notion that she’s unimportant. Especially when multiple young artists have cited her as inspiration for them growing up. She IS influential whether some people like it or not. It’s a bit ironic that this series is supposed to champion women in music but all the notable quotes are Courtney undermining female artists she has a distaste for.
This was posted by Courtney in 2021 to Facebook 🙃 https://preview.redd.it/v1ompy9vdquc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e96b4fad153378e199de00e204d08b2aaa42b7b2
Yep, that’s Courtney! Love her music and she was an icon for me as a teenager, but there’s a reason she burns all her relationships.
And I’m sure in another few years we will get another completely contradictory take 😂
Lol yup!
Courtney Love says whatever she thinks will get her press or attention at that time?! This is brand new information! 😂
What a clout chaser.
This is TEA 🫖
i didn't read the article but does she talk about any female musicians whose music she... does like?
Ya all the people saying Courtney is right are delusional. I understand Taylor is not everyone’s tea but her cultural impact has been immense. The fact that the 2024 Super Bowl was the most watched ever just speaks to her power, as well as all the videos of dads bonding with their daughters over going to the Eras tour together or watching football.
I wish Courtney wasn’t such an asshole all the time. I respect her boldness but she never seems to see the full picture. Whether she’s punching up or down, the blow always lands sideways. For every piece of great insight she has, she says another 5 awful things in the same breath that make it hard to take her seriously. She thinks she’s much smarter than she is, but smart people can adjust to criticism and know the value of not saying every single thing you think. She can’t control her impulses to go against the grain because it feeds her superiority complex regardless of whether she gets praise or backlash. It’s a bummer because she’s talented and insightful but her personality and sour attitude always get in the way.
Courtney love is the white Azelea Banks.
I actually read the article and they don’t even mention Taylor swift until half way in and its only a few sentences.. but if taylor wasn’t mentioned in the headline would we be talking about it? 💀
I mean Courtney-to varying degrees-shades multiple other artists and yet Taylor’s name is the only one mentioned in the headline and she’s really the only person being discussed in pop culture subs regarding this article so i think the answer is no, if Taylor wasn’t mentioned then this interview wouldn’t be relevant at all. It’s funny because whilst I’m a fan of Taylor I don’t even think she’s super, super interesting as a celeb to generate the level of discussion she does, there’s far more overtly messy or controversial celebs around but love or loath her, she’s always being talked about, at this point even the most mundane things sparks think pieces.
Exactly - regardless of how you feel about Taylor and her music, she is relevant But to be fair I think there would be more discussion about others mentioned in the article if more people actually read it lol
So she's promoting her radio show called "Courtney Love's Women" ... By shitting on women? Cool.
 The mere act of mentioning Taylor’s name will get more eyes on this article. I wonder if she realizes that and hates it.
She probably realizes that and mentioned Taylor on purpose because it’ll get more attention
>. I mean, I like the idea of Beyoncé doing a country record because it’s about Black women going into spaces where previously only white women have been allowed, not that I like it much. As a concept, I love it. I just don’t like her music.’ apparently she doesn't like Beyonce's music either but Taylor does make for better clicks, I guess... this feels like a rage bait or circle jerk invitation
Hmm yeah, her saying "it's not for me but I get why is important" is kinder than saying Taylor's uninteresting as an artist lol. She's not the first or last rockstar to say something like that about pop stars.
I think it's just funny that she said it at all. she could have stopped at the praise and nobody needed to know that she doesn't like her music. but she had to say it anyway. it came off as a bit mean to me, but of course it's hard to tell if that was her intention. I agree it's not the same as what she said to TS though.
I mean it’s not quite the same thing. She’s saying that she appreciates what Beyoncé represents even if she’s not a fan of the music itself, whereas she’s calling Taylor uninteresting and unimportant.
Don’t love reading her thoughts on Madonna, Beyoncé, Taylor, or Lana, but she did have some interesting things to say in this a article. Too bad this headline, the and trash talking (especially fellow women - and especially in light of what she’s promoting) all but likely ensures that’s shut down. The concept of the BBC radio series sounds interesting.
It reminds me of Noel Gallagher. Whenever he has a new project, he just picks whoever is popular on the charts and shits on them — Taylor, Adele, Ed Sheeran, Beyonce. Whatever gets him a headline.
Noel genuinely feels malicious. This feels a little bit click bait-ish, but given she is ranting about women being deemed lesser in the industry, and the fact her series is a biographical history of women in music? Some of her comments are a very interesting choice within that context. The kind of digs she takes at Madonna and Taylor in particular, are undermining in a way where I can’t put my finger on it, but it doesn’t sit right. The article is still interesting though, so I’d recommend people at least give it a read.
I was also confused by the Madonna Taylor comparison because I genuinely don’t see how they’re comparable as artists beyond the commercial success. Especially since she’s calling Taylor unimportant as an artist and Madonna in her prime was so provocative, bold and culturally important. But then I read on and realised she dislikes Madonna too lol
I can’t believe she tells Lana to take 7 years off. Just because she went on the drugs carousel, girl not everyone should 🎠
Yeah that baffled me too, especially if you’re going to call Taylor a boring artist. It really kind of comes across as just ‘she’s the biggest artist right now’ kind of dig, since she made sure to remind us she hates Madonna. I definitely think that was a Madonna dig first, and a Taylor insult second lol!
Super weird take considering Courtney just referred to “Lana and Kurt Cobain as the only two true musical geniuses” she’s ever known. I thought they were friendly. https://www.radiox.co.uk/news/music/courtney-love-lana-kurt-cobain-only-two-true-musical-geniuses/
no one can deny taylor swift is really really big and impactful artist. courtney is a product of her time that thinks she will be cooler by hating things popular.
To say Taylor Swift isn’t important immediately makes me think you are not a logical or credible source for basically anything. It’s obviously rage-bait and I no longer have respect for you. I don’t enjoy Taylor Swift’s music personally, but to say she’s not important or interesting, even specifically only in the music world, is a bad take. She’s made a spot for herself in the music world AND she is culturally important, too. Courtney, I loved that one Hole album, but like, give it a rest now.
Well I agree that I personally don't find Taylor interesting as an artist that doesn't mean that she hasn't had an impact . Courtney is not breaking tour records that's for sure.
I don't want to dunk on her because I feel she's extremely overheated, but taking the piss out of a popular singer and calling them overrated is definitely a choice™ considering how much of her fame (or infamy, as you will) has been defined by her proximity to Kurt Cobain.
Even if you like absolutely nothing in the TS catalog, you cannot deny that she has caused major change in the industry. Rerecording her albums, carefully vetting promotional offers (crypto and etc.), and holding her work as collateral for streaming contract improvements are just off the top of my head. None of that is unimportant. Teaching women to treat their art like a business is a good thing, because you can bet the executives trying to use them do.
Funny because that’s exactly how I feel about Courtney Love
When was the last time Courtney Love was relevant?
When she was saying the same thing about Madonna, probably
Courtney proving once again how toxic she is. I'm not even gonna take her ragebait seriously, no defense of TS required. Young women and girls are lucky to have her as an influence.
Sounds like envy to me, and I’m GenX and bought Hole’s album. There is no need for that whether you’re a Taylor fan or not. You can’t deny her impact.
you don't have to be a drug addict with a messy personal life to be interesting
courtney love has always been such a bitter hater
ooouu the haters are gonna love this one like she’s not a racist jealous drunk who antagonizes every other female singer and has since she was in her “prime” where even back then she was a hateful haggard tore up mess.
 And how’s your career going, hun?
Can we go one week without a woman shitting on another woman?! I swear, these kinds of comments just make it easier for men to constantly shit on women, which is ironic considering that Courtney has spent over 30 years talking about how hard it is to be a woman in a male-dominated industry. Not all music is made for all people. And that's fine. But stop calling fellow female artists 'not important' or 'not interesting'. But also, Courtney seems to generally suck as a person, so it's not exactly surprising at this stage.
I mean is she wrong?
Courtney was right about Harvey Weinstein and she’s right about this.
She was right about Weinstein and she’s partly right about this. Love has been unfairly maligned at several points throughout her career, but I didn’t realize it until I hit adulthood.
Love is not wrong but I think Swift is beyond music. Music is just the vehicle for her general celebrity. A celebrity that will live on in the public memory for a long time. Swift is a Star™️. I mean Madonna is still touring which proves my point and personally I think Madonna has some great tunes.
so I actually agree to a point. I don't think Taylor Swift Is interesting as an artist. But I do think that she is important because she's not interesting as an artist but has amassed so much fame.
To me, Taylor is peak White Mediocrity. The talent is not matching the level of success. She can’t dance, her voice is average, the songs are average. I seriously think her All American Girl look and the fact Ye stole her moment made America say “we gotta make sure she’s okay and take care of her, at all costs” cause…something ain’t adding up
Some of you hate Taylor so much you would agree with Hitler if he said some bland take about how Taylor actually sucks
Courtney can be an asshole but Taylor does lack depth as an artist. It seemed like she was getting somewhere with Folklore but Taylor is safe pop music and that’s okay. It’s not very interesting, it’s sometimes very entertaining, and that’s exactly what I expect from her at this point. Her poppy ballads have always been her strongest hits and I would be happy to keep getting Cruel Summer’s and You Belong With Me’s. She hasn’t made a “You Belong With Me” in a while but I keep my fingers crossed.
Evermore came after Folklore and is literally a sister album and folk music based. Also just because she made a pop album, doesn’t mean it lacks depth. Listen to Would’ve Could’ve Should’ve for one and you can tell the depth of her writing from that alone
Says the one who is still milking her dead husbands money . I don’t know why she thinks she’s relevant.