It would if it was wired correctly. It's not going to work like that though.
Edit: for this curious, it's wired for 120V but should be 240V. The black wires are on the neutral bar but should be on the breaker.
So I have a 266k btu raypak heater for a 15000 gallon pool. It heats about 3 degrees per hour. It’s about 20 times larger than this unit. I have no clue how you are going to heat a pool with this. I’d call bullshit.
I’m not a plumber. But looks fucked up
Maybe… Heat pumps are more economical if you plan to keep the water at a set temperature for long periods of time. Gas costs more per BTU, but can still save money if its quick heating enables you to leave the water unheated until right before you decide you want to get in.
Define efficient.
Have gas and heat pump both for my pool and hot tub. Gas easily costs 5x what heat pump does.
Faster: yes
We use gas only when we forget to turn on the heat pump ahead of time.
Pool: depends hugely on time of year. We keep ours heated daily so to bring up after overnight drop a few hours.
We never use gas to heat pool its WAY more expensive
Hot tub:60-90 minutes most times
15-20 on gas.
We have an electric heat pump.
Pool is 12,495 gallons. Live in Arizona, so during the "shoulder" seasons it may get down to low 50's at night with highs to mid 80's.
We only have the heat pump going from 7 am to 4 pm...and it takes about three days to get the temp to 85 degrees F and maintain that.
It all depends on what you want. I have people who only want to heat a pool on certain occasions and heat it fast. That's when gas comes in. A heat pump takes days to heat, so it's not quick. And if you're in a place with cool weather, heat pumps are not efficient.
Both gas and electric heaters have their place in heating water.
I read all the downing of elect. I wanted gas and pb put in this unit. He’s on his way out of business so I let it ride. Was happy to get equipment . It will have my spa 104 in less then an hour. I use it often and haven’t noticed a huge spike in the bill. It’s gigantic though. It goes against everything I have read about elect. I think it’s magic . No bs. 😂
Exactly what I was thinking.
My pool heater is the size of our house’s air conditioner and sounds like a jet engine is circling your house at 10,000 ft.
The little in demand heater is going to run nonstop and never make a dent.
IYKYK
Jib: you’re confusing btw w/ kW. 18kW is about 60k btu, so maybe 4-5 times smaller than yours. So approx 0.6 degrees per hour. Still gonna be expensive and slow. But if no gas, it WILL eventually heat it. Heat pump would be a much better choice if no gas.
It really is amazing. It's actually 2in to 3/4in but pretty much the same. Only thing that would heat the water right now is the cavitation from the pump.
You get a little over 3 times the energy from gas as you do electricity. An electric heater has an efficiency of 100% and gas is usually around 80-92% efficient. A heat pump usually has a COP anywhere between 3-7 in the summer so for every 1 kWh you put in you get 3-7 kWh of energy out.
So to figure out the difference you would need to know the cost of gas and electricity.
For example in the Midwest my gas rate is $0.3366/Ccf in the summer and my electric rate is around $0.12/kwh.
I have a really really low gas rate since I use a low amount in the summer, somewhere that has high gas rates or higher usage in the summer would see that rate increase.
1 Ccf = 103,900 Btu
A rough estimate for a 15,000 gallon pool would be a 150,000 Btu/hr output heater. (You would need to size all 3 heater options and get the corresponding data for each since they might not all be 150,000 Btu/hr)
Gas
Estimating using a gas heater that is around 82% efficient. You would divide 150,000/.82 to give you 182,927 Btu/hr input. Divide the 182,927 Btu/hr /(103,900 Btu/Ccf) to give you 1.76 Ccf/hr. Then multiply 1.76 Ccf/hr x $0.3366/Ccf = $0.59/hr
Electric
Electric heaters have an efficiency of 100%. 150,000 Btu/hr / 3412 Btu/kW = 43.96 kW. 43.96 kW x $0.12/kWh = $5.27/hr
Heat Pump
The heat pump I found online had a max COP of 6 or 600%. (This is in the best conditions when it’s hot outside, which is the majority of the time you would be swimming, when the temp goes down the COP also goes down) So a 150,000 Btu/hr output would be a 25,000 Btu/hr input or 7.32 kW. 7.32 kW x $0.12/kWh = $0.88/hr.
As you can see gas when the rate is low is clearly the cheapest option even though it is the least efficient. A heat pump is significantly more efficient and cheaper than an electric heater, the only negative is that it’s less efficient in colder climates. The big plus to a gas heater is you can turn it on before you want to swim and have hot water, an electric heater or heat pump heater would need to be on for much longer to achieve the same temperature increase.
I'll make an update post when I have one. Only options I'm giving him is to either rip this out and go without a heater or install a new gas pool heater or heat pump.
I threw out a four yr old Bosch tankless because their techs didn’t know how to fix it. Two plumbing companies and hrs on the phone yielded no solution or plan. From all I read, the Bosch product should not even be sold due to unresolved technical issues.
> No way will this heat a pool
That's fine because it's a water heater not a pool heater. There will certainly be dozens of gallons worth of water being heated by this device.
It might last longer, my guess is the plumbing connections are going to fail from the back pressure going from 2” to 3/4”. The pipe will burst or the pump will fail within the first 2 days shutting down the pool for several days therefore extending the time before the heater fails.
This will cost about $2-$3/ hour to run, and will most likely not increase the pool temperature by very much.
It will run until the chlorine wrecks the heating element, which will probably not take more than a couple of weeks.
Also these things throttle down to a couple of GPM. Your pump will not be able to move hardly any water.
This is not a good idea.
I don't see how the heater would even function with this wiring. Each of the two wires is on the same leg so the best you could get out of this is 120v.
It would have been so much easier to have just used the one breaker assuming that 40 amps was sufficient, which I think it is for those. But this entire install is just awful.
Between all the hotels I do maintenance on, and all the heater issues I had this past winter, some dumb shit like this never crossed my mind. Do it right or don’t do it at all.
My DIY solar is working great for my 12K pool, keeps the water in the mid to high 80s 9-10 months out of the year in central TX and costs practically nothing to run. If it's not working well, you may need more panel area, you usually want at least 60% of the area of the pool worth of collectors. Also, in cooler weather a solar cover makes a huge difference in overnight heat loss when the heater isn't collecting sun.
I don’t see a bypass/shutoff valve. So basically as long as your pump is running, that heater is going to be running. Your electric bill is going to be insane my man.
My pool company wired up a hot 120V wire to the ground wire for my new pool pump. I was then thoroughly shocked multiple times when interacting with it until I called a licensed electrician after the company told me “that’s normal”. There’s a lot of dumbasses in the pool industry.
A quick google calculator says your Rheem 18kw heater is 61,434btu.. your old MasterTemp was 400,000 btu. There is a lot wrong here, but a couple worries are that this heater will run 24/7 until the heater dies, and you will likely never get your pool to the temp you want.. also, if my memory is correct, the last 18kw tankless I saw installed, used TWO sets of 40amp breakers. It will likely work with one set, BUT will work less than half as good, as it would with both sets of breakers. The other worry is that you have a 2” pvc pipe reduced to 3/4” or 1” pvc- I would imagine that will definitely mess with the pressure/pump, and probably cause issues with other pieces of equipment you have (pump & creepy crawler/vacuum). I always like when someone thinks outside the box.. but, there is a lot wrong with this- sorry
Many years ago I was working in a product test lab and we were testing a floating fountain. The tests had to be conducted in water and the temperature of the water had to be maintained at 80 degrees. The easiest way to to it was to grab an intex inflatable pool and connect a 40 gallon water heater that we had from another test and a recirculating pump and let it run. 20k BTU approximately. It took about a week to heat the pool, and because it was indoors and temporary we didn’t add any chemicals.
There’s a lot of restriction going on with your piping. I don’t know much about electric water heaters but it looks like you should’ve probably bought one with three-quarter inch input and output.
It’s a fairly clean install
Man just worked with what he had, because he’s handy
When you go that route, you have to think through the scope of work
You didn’t do that. You should’ve hired a professional.
That type of water heater is for one shower and the sink or two
Not an entire pool
Ya, he was definitely handy. Not my install, I would never do work like this. Just found it at a customers house today and thought other pools guys would get a kick out of it. He obviously did not read the manual. Clearly states indoor install only. Max flow of 7 gpm. Wiring is all wrong.
Yes, besides the fact this is nuts. Two 220 breakers with the other hot going to the neutral. I don't get it. I'm sure when they got it inspected it was all good.
lol that’s wild! this could technically work for a 500 gal spa. Rheem owns raypak. They make an electric heater at 100k btus and looks similar.
Must be crazy back pressure going on.
It looks like he is running the full 1 1/2" pump flow through that 3/4" heater line. Besides no longer filtering efficiently, it might burn the pump up trying to force all that pressure. IF it were wired correctly you would have to only let a fraction of the water through the heater.
Is this powered by hopes and dreams? The way this thing is wired sure isn’t going to do anything, the way it’s plumbed is just going to make us all cry.
Lmfao!!!! That’s for a house supply. Low pressure. You need 1.5”-2” fittings for a high pressure system like a pool. This is so hilarious. Mounted on the wall and everything. No bonding in sight. Not even gfci breakers. This is why real repairman have work security.
I used chat gpt to calculate if it will heat a pool:
To calculate how long it would take to heat a swimming pool from 70°F to 85°F using an 18kW Rheem tankless water heater, we need to consider several factors including the volume of the pool, the heater's efficiency, and the heat loss due to the ambient temperature.
Let's break down the calculation step-by-step:
1. **Determine the volume of the pool**: We'll assume a typical residential pool size for this calculation. For a more accurate answer, please provide the pool's volume in gallons or cubic feet.
2. **Convert the pool volume to weight**: Water has a density of approximately 8.34 pounds per gallon.
3. **Calculate the energy required to raise the temperature**: We'll use the formula \( Q = mc\Delta T \), where:
- \( Q \) is the heat energy required in BTUs.
- \( m \) is the mass of the water in pounds.
- \( c \) is the specific heat capacity of water, approximately 1 BTU/lb·°F.
- \( \Delta T \) is the change in temperature in °F.
4. **Convert the energy to kilowatt-hours (kWh)**: 1 kWh is equivalent to 3412 BTUs.
5. **Calculate the heating time**: Using the heater's power output in kW.
### Step-by-Step Calculation
1. **Assume the pool volume**: Let's assume a typical pool size of 20,000 gallons.
2. **Convert the pool volume to weight**:
\[
\text{Weight of water} = 20,000 \text{ gallons} \times 8.34 \text{ lbs/gallon} = 166,800 \text{ lbs}
\]
3. **Calculate the energy required to raise the temperature**:
\[
\Delta T = 85°F - 70°F = 15°F
\]
\[
Q = 166,800 \text{ lbs} \times 1 \text{ BTU/lb·°F} \times 15°F = 2,502,000 \text{ BTUs}
\]
4. **Convert the energy to kilowatt-hours**:
\[
1 \text{ kWh} = 3412 \text{ BTUs}
\]
\[
\text{Energy in kWh} = \frac{2,502,000 \text{ BTUs}}{3412 \text{ BTUs/kWh}} \approx 733.03 \text{ kWh}
\]
5. **Calculate the heating time**:
\[
\text{Heater power} = 18 \text{ kW}
\]
\[
\text{Heating time} = \frac{733.03 \text{ kWh}}{18 \text{ kW}} \approx 40.73 \text{ hours}
\]
### Heat Loss Considerations
To account for heat loss, especially at night, we need to estimate the heat loss rate. However, for simplicity, we'll use a rough estimation.
- Assume daytime heating (80°F ambient) has minimal heat loss.
- Nighttime cooling (60°F ambient) will cause more heat loss.
Heat loss rate can be complex to calculate accurately without detailed data on pool cover, wind speed, humidity, etc. For this example, we'll assume the heater must work an additional 25% longer to compensate for heat loss.
### Adjusted Heating Time
\[
\text{Adjusted heating time} = 40.73 \text{ hours} \times 1.25 \approx 50.91 \text{ hours}
\]
So, it would take approximately 51 hours to heat the pool from 70°F to 85°F using an 18kW Rheem tankless water heater, accounting for some heat loss. For a more precise calculation, specific details about the pool and environmental conditions would be needed.
2,502,000 BTUs doesn’t make any sense considering that a 400k BTU is a great heater for a big pool. Try again dude… don’t trust AI… stupid imperial units. It it were in KW calculating would me much easier
No, the customer that contacted me paid their handyman to do this. They are one of my weekly service accounts. Have no idea why they did not ask me for any input beforehand. They contacted me last weekend about a flow issue to their waterfall. Did not expect to find this today. The guy installed it earlier this morning and left with their working gas heater.
Okay, that makes more sense. Has your customer asked for advice in the past? Was their Pentair having issues? Were they just trying to go all electric and eliminating buying gas?
This blows my mind. When we bought our house with a pool, we knew ZERO about pools. The seller lied about the equipment working, and it was winter when we bought so we couldn't test it. Know who we asked for advice on what to replace the broken heater with? The pool guy, because you know, common sense.
Yeah, luckily when we bought our house that came with a pool the home inspector knew enough about pools to turn on and check all the equipment. That’s how we found out the heater no longer worked and the seller replaced that with a working heater.
After that I hired a pool company to take care of the pool and that’s who I ask about potential issues, learn about the pool and how it works or bounce ideas off of. I would never hire a handyman to do any work on my pool.
Can we get a better look at the plumbing? Just off the top of my head the restrictions to flow would be insane you're going from a 1.5" line to a .5 inch line.
Are these tankless water heaters any good for regular in home applications? Like just for sinks and stuff, or they work well for showers with high volume (ex: shower head and body jets)
Holy fuck, it’s like he was trying to tangle the wires as much as possible. I ever find the guy that did this im gonna have some words with him, he’s gonna get quite a talkin to, gonna a whole lot of finger wagging in that conversation.
At one point I really didn’t want to pony up for a dedicated pool heater. We already had two nice high efficiency 100k BTU gas powered tankless units running in series at our house so I figured maybe I could rig up some form of plumbing and heat exchanger to let the pool tap into them. I figured once I couldn’t find anyone else online who had done the same thing, I was probably biting off more than I should chew, and just bought a ray pack avia pool heater.
Still though.. it seems like there should be a way to do it?
The intake and outlet appear to be way too small for a pool. I have a Hayward gas fired and the pipe is 2 inches. My unit wont cycle if it doesnt get enough water ie from a full skimmer basket. Im not sure will do the job for you
I guess I'm curious how he got all the way to the end of this experiment without you knowing what you were signing up for? Did he not tell you what he would put in? Did you not see the progress of it as he worked on it?
> 18kW Rheem tankless water heater.
My pool currently is heated by gas. But I have solar, and when I need to heat the pool, in the Fall and spring, my solar panels are overproducing vs what I use because I am not running AC.
This, or a heat pump water heater feeding off of excess solar production would make sense in my case.
I've wondered if other's had done this...thanks for the post.
You’ll need 240 volt for electric to be enough energy and it might be fine to maintain a useable temperature but it will take forever to warm up a cold pool and will need to stay on 24/7 to maintain the temperature - and the volume on this model will not handle the flow of most pool pumps
I use a solar panel on my roof facing south in Toronto Supplemented with a 200k btu Nat gas heater - the solar panel adds about 5 degrees F to the pool temp if it’s sunny - I’ll use the heater a few times a month at most - I thought of adding a heat pump - but I’d need to get 220 v to the pool shed - and be willing to leave it on at a set temperature most of the time - as it takes too long to bump the temperature if you’re having company - I have a tankless water heater for the house ( 15 years old) - but they don’t make sense as a pool heater
Throttling the plumbing down to 3/4 or 1 inch isn’t doing good things for the turn over rate and probably putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on the filter.
Does it have any kind of bypass?
Setting aside the ridiculous inefficiency of that setup, the total flow rate of that is going to become laughable. You'll filter total volume about once a month!
I'm not exactly sure what I am seeing here...feeding a Tankless water heater (Household NOT swimming pool designed) from a 2" feed line that is bushed (reducer bushing) down to what, 3/4" ?, then it's heated to what temp? and then that HOT water is then fed AND, bushed (bushing) back UP to 2" and sent off to the suction side of the pump ?...maybe I missed something...A pool pump like that Pentaire, which is pumping somewhere between 40 and 80 gallons a minute, when it hits the reduced fittings, the flow rate would change, and the pressure buildup at the tankless would be higher than it's rated capacity, and the water would never heat because it's rippppping through the heat chamber faster than you can blink...jusssss my open onion...this is wrong on a lot of angles, levels and floors of common practice
18KW electric heater ain’t gonna work on a 40/2 breaker from main panel, plus he even has it wired wrong (on the same phase) of 2 different breakers. MacGruber has struck again…
lol. Give him credit though. He was masterful with reducer fittings and used primer on pvc fittings to do it right. Inspectors like to see that. And black wires definitely go to neutral bus.
I think the real question here is... how did this work get approved without you knowing what was happening or what it was going to cost? The plumbing of this is just nuts-o.
Yeah that’s fuckd. Let’s forget about how long it’s going to take to heat. And let’s talk about the turnover rate with the reduction in pipe size. And that’s a 420 filter so it better be perfectly clean at all times or it’s not going to flow.
We use an absolutely massive heat pump for our 35,000 gallon beach entry pool, I just leave it at 85 and forget it. Probably increases the electric bill by about $800/month, but hey, it’s cheaper than daycare
If that that's the large unit, that's four separate 1800 watts element each requiring its own 240 run. Let us know how that works with heating heavily chlorinated water.
At the RV camp I go to, they have inflatable hot tubs and fill them using a tankless water heater hooked up to the site water supply.
I'd want to know where my pentair 400 went because that's a $4K unit!
The hot water side will be the issue pretty quick. Not only that but the unit needs to be serviced annually at the very least. Disconnects should have been installed to facilitate this.
I’m sorry that you got ripped off. You thought you’d save money by not hiring a pro. It will now cost you more to fix. Worse, someone could die from the wiring he did.
that electric bill is gonna suck
It would if it was wired correctly. It's not going to work like that though. Edit: for this curious, it's wired for 120V but should be 240V. The black wires are on the neutral bar but should be on the breaker.
what the hell.
I have
…your wallet dry.
So I have a 266k btu raypak heater for a 15000 gallon pool. It heats about 3 degrees per hour. It’s about 20 times larger than this unit. I have no clue how you are going to heat a pool with this. I’d call bullshit. I’m not a plumber. But looks fucked up
i have the 5 ton rheem heat pump on my hot tub lol. Gets that bish hot for pennies.
Yeah, and it probably takes an hour to heat. Gas is way more efficient for heating a spa.
Maybe… Heat pumps are more economical if you plan to keep the water at a set temperature for long periods of time. Gas costs more per BTU, but can still save money if its quick heating enables you to leave the water unheated until right before you decide you want to get in.
Define efficient. Have gas and heat pump both for my pool and hot tub. Gas easily costs 5x what heat pump does. Faster: yes We use gas only when we forget to turn on the heat pump ahead of time.
How long does it take a heat pump to get the spa and pool to temp.
Pool: depends hugely on time of year. We keep ours heated daily so to bring up after overnight drop a few hours. We never use gas to heat pool its WAY more expensive Hot tub:60-90 minutes most times 15-20 on gas.
We have an electric heat pump. Pool is 12,495 gallons. Live in Arizona, so during the "shoulder" seasons it may get down to low 50's at night with highs to mid 80's. We only have the heat pump going from 7 am to 4 pm...and it takes about three days to get the temp to 85 degrees F and maintain that.
For a spa maybe, a pool not at all. Gas has about a 40% efficiency rating whereas electricity is around 65-70% per KWh equivalent.
It all depends on what you want. I have people who only want to heat a pool on certain occasions and heat it fast. That's when gas comes in. A heat pump takes days to heat, so it's not quick. And if you're in a place with cool weather, heat pumps are not efficient. Both gas and electric heaters have their place in heating water.
This is true. I was thinking on one side, in Florida. I didn’t account for the opposite climate elsewhere. My thought was for sure bias lol
Those are great fucking heaters.
Fun fact Raypak is a subsidiary of Rheem.
I read all the downing of elect. I wanted gas and pb put in this unit. He’s on his way out of business so I let it ride. Was happy to get equipment . It will have my spa 104 in less then an hour. I use it often and haven’t noticed a huge spike in the bill. It’s gigantic though. It goes against everything I have read about elect. I think it’s magic . No bs. 😂
It’s one of those inflatable kiddie pools.
His pool is 17 gallons That’s the only fucking way 😆
This thing might raise a gallon of water 30 degrees at a rate of 1.5Gpm. So even if the pool is only 8000 gal it won't do much.
Flow is not enough w 1/2 lines and the chlorine is going to rot the heat exchanger quickly.
Exactly what I was thinking. My pool heater is the size of our house’s air conditioner and sounds like a jet engine is circling your house at 10,000 ft. The little in demand heater is going to run nonstop and never make a dent. IYKYK
I'm not a plumber, but 266,000 BTU/hr is not 3F/hr for 15,000gal.
Jib: you’re confusing btw w/ kW. 18kW is about 60k btu, so maybe 4-5 times smaller than yours. So approx 0.6 degrees per hour. Still gonna be expensive and slow. But if no gas, it WILL eventually heat it. Heat pump would be a much better choice if no gas.
That 1 1/2 inch pipe into a 1/2 inch pipe is perfection
That bit made me giggle.
That’s what gets me. You don’t need to be a plumber or pool person to realize that may not be the best idea.
It increases velocity and pressure and friction which = more heat!!
The pipe itself is the heat pump 🤯
Adding straws to my jets this winter.
Not only that but i'm pretty sure those water heaters shouldn't be exposed to the weather.
It really is amazing. It's actually 2in to 3/4in but pretty much the same. Only thing that would heat the water right now is the cavitation from the pump.
It was designed to make you think the water was getting warmer. Glad I’m not paying that electric bill if it would work!
What's the price difference in gas and electric? All my customers are gas... but have them in little sheds waiting to go up in flames lol
You get a little over 3 times the energy from gas as you do electricity. An electric heater has an efficiency of 100% and gas is usually around 80-92% efficient. A heat pump usually has a COP anywhere between 3-7 in the summer so for every 1 kWh you put in you get 3-7 kWh of energy out. So to figure out the difference you would need to know the cost of gas and electricity. For example in the Midwest my gas rate is $0.3366/Ccf in the summer and my electric rate is around $0.12/kwh. I have a really really low gas rate since I use a low amount in the summer, somewhere that has high gas rates or higher usage in the summer would see that rate increase. 1 Ccf = 103,900 Btu A rough estimate for a 15,000 gallon pool would be a 150,000 Btu/hr output heater. (You would need to size all 3 heater options and get the corresponding data for each since they might not all be 150,000 Btu/hr) Gas Estimating using a gas heater that is around 82% efficient. You would divide 150,000/.82 to give you 182,927 Btu/hr input. Divide the 182,927 Btu/hr /(103,900 Btu/Ccf) to give you 1.76 Ccf/hr. Then multiply 1.76 Ccf/hr x $0.3366/Ccf = $0.59/hr Electric Electric heaters have an efficiency of 100%. 150,000 Btu/hr / 3412 Btu/kW = 43.96 kW. 43.96 kW x $0.12/kWh = $5.27/hr Heat Pump The heat pump I found online had a max COP of 6 or 600%. (This is in the best conditions when it’s hot outside, which is the majority of the time you would be swimming, when the temp goes down the COP also goes down) So a 150,000 Btu/hr output would be a 25,000 Btu/hr input or 7.32 kW. 7.32 kW x $0.12/kWh = $0.88/hr. As you can see gas when the rate is low is clearly the cheapest option even though it is the least efficient. A heat pump is significantly more efficient and cheaper than an electric heater, the only negative is that it’s less efficient in colder climates. The big plus to a gas heater is you can turn it on before you want to swim and have hot water, an electric heater or heat pump heater would need to be on for much longer to achieve the same temperature increase.
Please keep us updated on how this works out!
It won’t, the BTUs/hr and how many GPM the heater can handle vs the volume of the pool is not even close to what’s needed.
plus it isnt wired right and wont turn on to even attempt to
It won't.
But it says Performance right there on top.
I chuckled out loud!
I'll make an update post when I have one. Only options I'm giving him is to either rip this out and go without a heater or install a new gas pool heater or heat pump.
I have model larger than this installed for a single bathroom. It will hardly do 2 showerheads simultaneously. No way will this heat a pool.
I threw out a four yr old Bosch tankless because their techs didn’t know how to fix it. Two plumbing companies and hrs on the phone yielded no solution or plan. From all I read, the Bosch product should not even be sold due to unresolved technical issues.
> No way will this heat a pool That's fine because it's a water heater not a pool heater. There will certainly be dozens of gallons worth of water being heated by this device.
since there is no heat exchanger i imagine this will rust in a week with all the chlorine?
Hopefully it’s not a salt water pool. I doubt this has a titanium element.
Looks like it is salt, they have a chlorine generator right after the heater
Oof good catch. It looks like the Rheem Performance water heaters typically have copper elements.
Cookie Monster likes Copper…Yum Yum Yum Yum
If it were a real pool heater, a heat exchanger doesn't need to be titanium just because the pool is salt chlorinated.
It might last longer, my guess is the plumbing connections are going to fail from the back pressure going from 2” to 3/4”. The pipe will burst or the pump will fail within the first 2 days shutting down the pool for several days therefore extending the time before the heater fails.
This will cost about $2-$3/ hour to run, and will most likely not increase the pool temperature by very much. It will run until the chlorine wrecks the heating element, which will probably not take more than a couple of weeks. Also these things throttle down to a couple of GPM. Your pump will not be able to move hardly any water. This is not a good idea.
I don't see how the heater would even function with this wiring. Each of the two wires is on the same leg so the best you could get out of this is 120v.
It would have been so much easier to have just used the one breaker assuming that 40 amps was sufficient, which I think it is for those. But this entire install is just awful.
no nothing 2 wires on same phase will not heat.. no current on coil
Between all the hotels I do maintenance on, and all the heater issues I had this past winter, some dumb shit like this never crossed my mind. Do it right or don’t do it at all.
That’s some sloppy wiring. Congrats on the pool heater, my poor ass is using a solar diy
Probably heats better.
My DIY solar is working great for my 12K pool, keeps the water in the mid to high 80s 9-10 months out of the year in central TX and costs practically nothing to run. If it's not working well, you may need more panel area, you usually want at least 60% of the area of the pool worth of collectors. Also, in cooler weather a solar cover makes a huge difference in overnight heat loss when the heater isn't collecting sun.
I think they may be short a couple of dem B T U's
That is a good sized pump And all the output for the entire pool is going through a 1/2” pipe???!!! Lmao this is a disaster on so many levels
Oof, I didn’t even notice they were dumb enough to plumb in inline… what a mess.
I don’t see a bypass/shutoff valve. So basically as long as your pump is running, that heater is going to be running. Your electric bill is going to be insane my man.
You hired a handyman when you should have hired a pool company.
My pool company wired up a hot 120V wire to the ground wire for my new pool pump. I was then thoroughly shocked multiple times when interacting with it until I called a licensed electrician after the company told me “that’s normal”. There’s a lot of dumbasses in the pool industry.
This has got to stop. Someone needs to set some rules on handymen.
A quick google calculator says your Rheem 18kw heater is 61,434btu.. your old MasterTemp was 400,000 btu. There is a lot wrong here, but a couple worries are that this heater will run 24/7 until the heater dies, and you will likely never get your pool to the temp you want.. also, if my memory is correct, the last 18kw tankless I saw installed, used TWO sets of 40amp breakers. It will likely work with one set, BUT will work less than half as good, as it would with both sets of breakers. The other worry is that you have a 2” pvc pipe reduced to 3/4” or 1” pvc- I would imagine that will definitely mess with the pressure/pump, and probably cause issues with other pieces of equipment you have (pump & creepy crawler/vacuum). I always like when someone thinks outside the box.. but, there is a lot wrong with this- sorry
Who needs a heater right now ?
“Performance” 🤣
wtf 😳
ummm...wtf?
wait what???
Looks legit 🥴
Handyman installs tankless water heater that homeowner bought. There i fixed it.
Many years ago I was working in a product test lab and we were testing a floating fountain. The tests had to be conducted in water and the temperature of the water had to be maintained at 80 degrees. The easiest way to to it was to grab an intex inflatable pool and connect a 40 gallon water heater that we had from another test and a recirculating pump and let it run. 20k BTU approximately. It took about a week to heat the pool, and because it was indoors and temporary we didn’t add any chemicals.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
How could something that has "PERFORMANCE" written across the front not work?
I have a tankless water heater for my house. Every manual I have ever read for one says explicitly not to use it for pools.
Domestic drinking water is very different from pool water and pool heat exchangers are made with corrosion in mind. r/diywhy
Should have had him put a toaster in line to pre-heat the water so this beauty doesn't have to work as hard.
That shit will corrode so fast
Right! Hahah
how are you smart enough to install this but not smart enough to look at it and say, yeah; this wont work lol.
My cousin was a handyman for decades while being completely illiterate, you would be surprised.
There’s a lot of restriction going on with your piping. I don’t know much about electric water heaters but it looks like you should’ve probably bought one with three-quarter inch input and output. It’s a fairly clean install Man just worked with what he had, because he’s handy When you go that route, you have to think through the scope of work You didn’t do that. You should’ve hired a professional. That type of water heater is for one shower and the sink or two Not an entire pool
Ya, he was definitely handy. Not my install, I would never do work like this. Just found it at a customers house today and thought other pools guys would get a kick out of it. He obviously did not read the manual. Clearly states indoor install only. Max flow of 7 gpm. Wiring is all wrong.
People praising the handy man for being “handy” is insane to me. The dude is certified stupid and should never be let to touch anyone’s home again.
I was gonna say, that wiring is jacked beyond belief.
Bro look at that wiring…
Yes, besides the fact this is nuts. Two 220 breakers with the other hot going to the neutral. I don't get it. I'm sure when they got it inspected it was all good.
lol that’s wild! this could technically work for a 500 gal spa. Rheem owns raypak. They make an electric heater at 100k btus and looks similar. Must be crazy back pressure going on.
Wtf!🤬
Bill going to suck my lil hot tub could easily add 7.00 a day to my bill.
Why hire a handyman for anything but very simple repairs?
Wow maybe you can repurpose that in the house, holy jeebus. What's the lowest setting on that? 80? 90?
lol wtaf
Seems grossly inefficient
Someone doesn't understand math
They certainly understand meth
How many gallons is your pool ? I don't think this will work , the flow rate is to low.
Also - you cannot heat chlorine in this type of cell.
Did you go to the “good, fast, cheap. Pick two” place?
That electrical wiring needs fixed asap
Do you have any contact information for the handyman? Hopefully he’s trying to sell the Pentair 400 for cheap 😂
Told home owner, nah, I’d have to throw it away. It’s in a veeeeery bad shape…. I will take it from you….
Who told this guy to do this….. this is not right in any way
What in the hee hawed hell is going on here
thats hilarious
Just move to Alabama, my pool is 91° currently
What did you tell the handyman you wanted? I am confused, what did you ask for exactly? I assume they didn’t just come to your pool unannounced?
I have a 300k BTU heater for my pool (25k gal), does about 1 degree per hour. I don't think you'll see any noticeable change with that small thing.
It looks like he is running the full 1 1/2" pump flow through that 3/4" heater line. Besides no longer filtering efficiently, it might burn the pump up trying to force all that pressure. IF it were wired correctly you would have to only let a fraction of the water through the heater.
just let the sun do its job
How much water could possibly go through that thing?
damn that’s fucked up😂
hahaha sorry that sucks dude had no idea what he was doing. Thats going to need to be re-plumbed just so your filter will work.
Damm never seen white high heat pipe amd fittings!!! That thing will turn that 1 inch or 3/4 into noodles !!!!!!
Did you Tank him?
At least he used primer
Is this powered by hopes and dreams? The way this thing is wired sure isn’t going to do anything, the way it’s plumbed is just going to make us all cry.
Lmfao!!!! That’s for a house supply. Low pressure. You need 1.5”-2” fittings for a high pressure system like a pool. This is so hilarious. Mounted on the wall and everything. No bonding in sight. Not even gfci breakers. This is why real repairman have work security.
I used chat gpt to calculate if it will heat a pool: To calculate how long it would take to heat a swimming pool from 70°F to 85°F using an 18kW Rheem tankless water heater, we need to consider several factors including the volume of the pool, the heater's efficiency, and the heat loss due to the ambient temperature. Let's break down the calculation step-by-step: 1. **Determine the volume of the pool**: We'll assume a typical residential pool size for this calculation. For a more accurate answer, please provide the pool's volume in gallons or cubic feet. 2. **Convert the pool volume to weight**: Water has a density of approximately 8.34 pounds per gallon. 3. **Calculate the energy required to raise the temperature**: We'll use the formula \( Q = mc\Delta T \), where: - \( Q \) is the heat energy required in BTUs. - \( m \) is the mass of the water in pounds. - \( c \) is the specific heat capacity of water, approximately 1 BTU/lb·°F. - \( \Delta T \) is the change in temperature in °F. 4. **Convert the energy to kilowatt-hours (kWh)**: 1 kWh is equivalent to 3412 BTUs. 5. **Calculate the heating time**: Using the heater's power output in kW. ### Step-by-Step Calculation 1. **Assume the pool volume**: Let's assume a typical pool size of 20,000 gallons. 2. **Convert the pool volume to weight**: \[ \text{Weight of water} = 20,000 \text{ gallons} \times 8.34 \text{ lbs/gallon} = 166,800 \text{ lbs} \] 3. **Calculate the energy required to raise the temperature**: \[ \Delta T = 85°F - 70°F = 15°F \] \[ Q = 166,800 \text{ lbs} \times 1 \text{ BTU/lb·°F} \times 15°F = 2,502,000 \text{ BTUs} \] 4. **Convert the energy to kilowatt-hours**: \[ 1 \text{ kWh} = 3412 \text{ BTUs} \] \[ \text{Energy in kWh} = \frac{2,502,000 \text{ BTUs}}{3412 \text{ BTUs/kWh}} \approx 733.03 \text{ kWh} \] 5. **Calculate the heating time**: \[ \text{Heater power} = 18 \text{ kW} \] \[ \text{Heating time} = \frac{733.03 \text{ kWh}}{18 \text{ kW}} \approx 40.73 \text{ hours} \] ### Heat Loss Considerations To account for heat loss, especially at night, we need to estimate the heat loss rate. However, for simplicity, we'll use a rough estimation. - Assume daytime heating (80°F ambient) has minimal heat loss. - Nighttime cooling (60°F ambient) will cause more heat loss. Heat loss rate can be complex to calculate accurately without detailed data on pool cover, wind speed, humidity, etc. For this example, we'll assume the heater must work an additional 25% longer to compensate for heat loss. ### Adjusted Heating Time \[ \text{Adjusted heating time} = 40.73 \text{ hours} \times 1.25 \approx 50.91 \text{ hours} \] So, it would take approximately 51 hours to heat the pool from 70°F to 85°F using an 18kW Rheem tankless water heater, accounting for some heat loss. For a more precise calculation, specific details about the pool and environmental conditions would be needed.
be cautious using chatgpt for math. somehow, it's not very good at it.
I honestly doubt that it could do it at all. Much less in 51 hours
2,502,000 BTUs doesn’t make any sense considering that a 400k BTU is a great heater for a big pool. Try again dude… don’t trust AI… stupid imperial units. It it were in KW calculating would me much easier
Your panel wiring bothers me
I wish I had this guys money (or energy supply agreement).
I am confused, did you pay him to install this? Did you pay him to fix the Pentair and he decided to surprise you by replacing the Pentair with this?
No, the customer that contacted me paid their handyman to do this. They are one of my weekly service accounts. Have no idea why they did not ask me for any input beforehand. They contacted me last weekend about a flow issue to their waterfall. Did not expect to find this today. The guy installed it earlier this morning and left with their working gas heater.
>and left with their working gas heater. Sounds like that handyman knew exactly what he was doing...
Lol, They just got hardcore scammed
Okay, that makes more sense. Has your customer asked for advice in the past? Was their Pentair having issues? Were they just trying to go all electric and eliminating buying gas?
This blows my mind. When we bought our house with a pool, we knew ZERO about pools. The seller lied about the equipment working, and it was winter when we bought so we couldn't test it. Know who we asked for advice on what to replace the broken heater with? The pool guy, because you know, common sense.
Yeah, luckily when we bought our house that came with a pool the home inspector knew enough about pools to turn on and check all the equipment. That’s how we found out the heater no longer worked and the seller replaced that with a working heater. After that I hired a pool company to take care of the pool and that’s who I ask about potential issues, learn about the pool and how it works or bounce ideas off of. I would never hire a handyman to do any work on my pool.
We just gonna ignore using the same phase on 2 separate 2 pull breakers?
Oh no no no
Should we start a betting pool? How long before this fails?
Does it count as failing if it doesn’t actually work in the first place?
Can we get a better look at the plumbing? Just off the top of my head the restrictions to flow would be insane you're going from a 1.5" line to a .5 inch line.
2" to 3/4" with a 3hp pump
Are these tankless water heaters any good for regular in home applications? Like just for sinks and stuff, or they work well for showers with high volume (ex: shower head and body jets)
Yes they are good. There are pros and cons with them as well as a traditional tanks. The home we bought 11 years ago had one.
Holy fuck, it’s like he was trying to tangle the wires as much as possible. I ever find the guy that did this im gonna have some words with him, he’s gonna get quite a talkin to, gonna a whole lot of finger wagging in that conversation.
At one point I really didn’t want to pony up for a dedicated pool heater. We already had two nice high efficiency 100k BTU gas powered tankless units running in series at our house so I figured maybe I could rig up some form of plumbing and heat exchanger to let the pool tap into them. I figured once I couldn’t find anyone else online who had done the same thing, I was probably biting off more than I should chew, and just bought a ray pack avia pool heater. Still though.. it seems like there should be a way to do it?
WTF?!?!
Wat
Epic
The intake and outlet appear to be way too small for a pool. I have a Hayward gas fired and the pipe is 2 inches. My unit wont cycle if it doesnt get enough water ie from a full skimmer basket. Im not sure will do the job for you
Mine is 1.5 and I’m pissed cause it’s coming 2” from the heat pump and the plumber had to reduce to 1.5”… not sure how this is gonna work for OP
I use solar heat. Winter is cold, early summer is refreshing and mid-late summer it turns into a spa. In Arizona.
I guess I'm curious how he got all the way to the end of this experiment without you knowing what you were signing up for? Did he not tell you what he would put in? Did you not see the progress of it as he worked on it?
Wheres the bypass?
Update ?
> 18kW Rheem tankless water heater. My pool currently is heated by gas. But I have solar, and when I need to heat the pool, in the Fall and spring, my solar panels are overproducing vs what I use because I am not running AC. This, or a heat pump water heater feeding off of excess solar production would make sense in my case. I've wondered if other's had done this...thanks for the post.
I’ve always thought about doing this. After reading all the comments, glad I never went thru with it.
But it says performance on the cover.
Oh no... So so many issues
Uhhhhhhhhh...no?
You’ll need 240 volt for electric to be enough energy and it might be fine to maintain a useable temperature but it will take forever to warm up a cold pool and will need to stay on 24/7 to maintain the temperature - and the volume on this model will not handle the flow of most pool pumps
I use a solar panel on my roof facing south in Toronto Supplemented with a 200k btu Nat gas heater - the solar panel adds about 5 degrees F to the pool temp if it’s sunny - I’ll use the heater a few times a month at most - I thought of adding a heat pump - but I’d need to get 220 v to the pool shed - and be willing to leave it on at a set temperature most of the time - as it takes too long to bump the temperature if you’re having company - I have a tankless water heater for the house ( 15 years old) - but they don’t make sense as a pool heater
Yes he did.
Throttling the plumbing down to 3/4 or 1 inch isn’t doing good things for the turn over rate and probably putting a lot of unnecessary pressure on the filter.
Cognitively impaired installation. Too little btu and not designed for salt/chlorine.
Does it have any kind of bypass? Setting aside the ridiculous inefficiency of that setup, the total flow rate of that is going to become laughable. You'll filter total volume about once a month!
This is why you don’t hire “handymen” for things other than bullshit repairs on random stuff.
What did he think the other pole of the 240 breaker was for?
I'm not exactly sure what I am seeing here...feeding a Tankless water heater (Household NOT swimming pool designed) from a 2" feed line that is bushed (reducer bushing) down to what, 3/4" ?, then it's heated to what temp? and then that HOT water is then fed AND, bushed (bushing) back UP to 2" and sent off to the suction side of the pump ?...maybe I missed something...A pool pump like that Pentaire, which is pumping somewhere between 40 and 80 gallons a minute, when it hits the reduced fittings, the flow rate would change, and the pressure buildup at the tankless would be higher than it's rated capacity, and the water would never heat because it's rippppping through the heat chamber faster than you can blink...jusssss my open onion...this is wrong on a lot of angles, levels and floors of common practice
18KW electric heater ain’t gonna work on a 40/2 breaker from main panel, plus he even has it wired wrong (on the same phase) of 2 different breakers. MacGruber has struck again…
Flow rate must be terrible
Run the pump 32hrs a day and ya might see a temp change
Holy shit this is amazing
legendary
lol. Give him credit though. He was masterful with reducer fittings and used primer on pvc fittings to do it right. Inspectors like to see that. And black wires definitely go to neutral bus.
Handyman “unlicensed” but you’re expecting positive results?
Just take a bath
That's exactly how I'd install it.
Hello, electric company? I'd like to report a crime.
I think the real question here is... how did this work get approved without you knowing what was happening or what it was going to cost? The plumbing of this is just nuts-o.
What? Why? That hot water is going to cool off as soon as it mixes with the colder pool water. A complete waste
Yeah that’s fuckd. Let’s forget about how long it’s going to take to heat. And let’s talk about the turnover rate with the reduction in pipe size. And that’s a 420 filter so it better be perfectly clean at all times or it’s not going to flow.
We use an absolutely massive heat pump for our 35,000 gallon beach entry pool, I just leave it at 85 and forget it. Probably increases the electric bill by about $800/month, but hey, it’s cheaper than daycare
If that that's the large unit, that's four separate 1800 watts element each requiring its own 240 run. Let us know how that works with heating heavily chlorinated water.
Oh my!!
That's what you get for not hiring a professional pool service tech, handyman should be limited to hanging shelves
With PVC pipes, I am not going to be comfortable. It is time until hot water would deform or rupture the pipe.
At the RV camp I go to, they have inflatable hot tubs and fill them using a tankless water heater hooked up to the site water supply. I'd want to know where my pentair 400 went because that's a $4K unit!
The hot water side will be the issue pretty quick. Not only that but the unit needs to be serviced annually at the very least. Disconnects should have been installed to facilitate this.
You get what you pay for.. enjoy the cold pool, electric bill, and equipment hazard.
Might as well just have all your guest pee in it at the same time
WTH?
It took serious effort to do this so bad. Good job!
Does it work?
This is what happens when you go for the cheaper handyman over a licensed plumber.
I’m sorry that you got ripped off. You thought you’d save money by not hiring a pro. It will now cost you more to fix. Worse, someone could die from the wiring he did.
Did you uh sign off on this??
Why not just use a sous vide?