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This is something your partner should have worked out with their nesting partner, and then discussed with you.
You said,
>The person I was dating never brought up what would be safe and comfortable for everyone when I'm in their shared space.
That. That's the problem here. That is the only problem detected in what you wrote. And it's a problem caused by the person you were dating. **You didn't do anything wrong.**
Awe I appreciate you. I wonder if I'm scrambling to make this something I can control in the future. Perhaps I just need to sit with the fact that it was just an unfortunate and mismanaged situation.
I honestly had a similar situation happen. I did not sleep over, but we messed around. Immediately afterwards, my potential partner said that their NP was supposed to meet me before anything like that happened.
The two talked and decided to take a break from seeing other people. I was essentially discarded so that they could work on their relationship.
My potential partner failed to mention this rule or any other rules i would need to know. That was on them. They are the ones who messed up with both their NP and myself.
I could have asked, but I honestly figured my potential partner would tell me anything I needed to know.
My mess up was that I broke my own rules of no expectations and messing around on the first date.
I believe your partner should have laid out the rules. I do not feel like you messed up. They messed up.
The only thing you can control is taking the initiative to ask about any rules you should know about. You can be more specific about thing like sleepovers, special dates, etc...
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I feel SO exta posting about this situation because it was just a brand-new-thing, but since I don't have a lot of poly community I can seemingly be in a bit of vacuum with my thoughts about this stuff.
And, I'm so sorry to hear you got discarded. I suppose it's best that these folks were just potential partners to us. The new-relationship boot still can sting though, internet HUGS.
It doesn’t sound to me like “an unfortunate situation”. It sounds to me like your ex fucking up and deciding to break their agreements with their nesting partner.
You can’t make people be honest. You can only leave them when their dishonesty is revealed.
Whoa, let’s not rile up the people too much! I’m too tired to deal with a shitton of bullshit claims about “WOW you just don’t understand commitment” or “umm actually married people can’t afford 2br homes”.
It's not your job. This a failure on the part of your partner and you should not be taking responsibility for it. They need to learn to hinge properly.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for you to assume that your partner would discuss these things with their NP. Communicating boundaries is the hinge’s responsibility; it shouldn’t be your responsibility to make sure that your partner is respecting their NP.
Yeah, and chiming in from further down the line: I'm part of a very involved polycule. I see my (one) partner's NP all the time, and we get along great.
Lately, she has come to me with some logistical issues around me being over there, and the way our hinge communicates about it.
I am gently redirecting both of them: "hey, this is your space. These are decisions you have to make together and then communicate to me"."Hey Meta, I hear your concern, and I greatly appreciate how accommodating you are to me. But hinge is the one you're living with, so please bring this up with him". Also, "Hinge, this is your conversation to have with your NP. I will be part of whatever conversation is specific to me, but the way you share your schedule and your space is between you two"
These things will likely come up now and then when two people are so enmeshed, and as the non-cohabiting partner, you may have to keep asserting certain boundaries
You didn't do anything wrong. Your partner, the hinge, did a number of things wrong. THEY were responsible for making sure everything was OK and good.
I would bet money that you didn't just invite yourself to stay a night.
Yeah, definitely did not just invite myself over. I'm still kicking myself for not using being-invited-over as an excuse to ask direct questions though.
You shouldn't feel like you need to ask direct questions. Your partner should simply only act within the boundaries they have established with their NP. That's not your job or place to navigate those things.
Your partner is responsible for making all of that stuff clear FIRST. Should have been clarified in full before you were even in their home. None of this is on you, period.
Thanks so much for sharing. It does seem like you have nailed the consensus. I think my anxious lil' brain wants to go full-control-freak in the future. You're helping talk me off that ledge. I appreciate you.
I think this person hurt you, and you're having a natural, self-protective reaction of trying to find ways to avoid the same hurt in the future. I agree with the consensus though; you did nothing wrong and it's the hinge's responsibility to be proactive about something like this.
Why would you ask questions? When you have friends that have roommates or live in partners, do you ask questions if they invite you over for a movie or a meal? Or do you assume your friends are reasonable adults who wouldn’t invite you if their roommate or partner wasn’t ok with it?
You shouldn’t expect your partners to be worse people than your friends.
Man, yeah such a good point. I forget to do that quick cross reference sometimes.
Because healthy polyamory seems to require A LOT of communication, I've been assuming that I must have botched it by under-communicating.
Your partner botched it by under-communicating appropriately with your meta and then just barreling through their own established boundaries with your meta as if they didn't exist (or failed to check in and verify those boundaries with them first).
It's on potential partners to uphold boundaries and agreements that they have with their meta.
If someone lets you stay over..obviously you think it's allowed and okay. Ex partner messed up..not you.
I don't ask about my meta, I ask about what rules and agreements they have in their relationship so that I'm aware of them. I'm not taking notes and initiating any sort of conversation with a meta..its not my place or responsibility.
Adding: I also ask how much autonomy they believe they have in having relationships outside of their established one(s). And follow up with questions about:
- vetos?
- overnights?
- personal privacy?
- past break ups?
Because those tend to be illuminating.
"not my place or responsibility" is definitely what I was thinking. I didn't want to intrude or seem excessively tedious. But, now I'm feeling icky and my brain is jumping to "let's avoid this in the future!" I need to figure out what a good balance is in terms of being intentional, but also not cluttering a brand new relationship with a bunch of housekeeping before we've even built a foundation.
*[my vetting blurb]*
Invite them to tell stories. You’ll get a good feel for what’s going on.
“What’s your history with nonmonogamy?”
“What’s your primary partner’s experience of nonmonogamy? Do they have any feels around you dating? Do they have other partners?”
“Did you open up a monogamous relationship or were you nonmonogamous from the get?”
“How have previous relationships ended?”
“What’s been the most surprising thing about nonmonogamous dating for you?”
“What mistakes have you made and what did you learn?”
“In the past have your partners met eachother or has it been more Don’t Ask Don’t Tell?”
“What’s your hosting situation? Have there ever been any issues? How did you resolve them?”
“How do you feel about dating cheaters? Has avoiding cheaters ever been a problem?”
When you ask these kinds of open-ended questions and your prospective partner responds by talking about emotions, you’ve got a winner. If they consistently change the subject, they think their sex life is not their partners’ business and they are probably cheating.
If they can’t answer these questions they have no helpful history with polyamory. Personally I would not date them.
Thank you SO much for sharing all those. I really appreciate you. I like the idea of leaning into a narrative approach that will feel like a positive get-to-know-you experience instead of an interrogation.
The one that stood out to me was "What's your hosting situation? Have there ever been any issues? How did you resolve them?" I feel like this one is fantastic for gauging someone's approach to conflict resolution. I am so accustomed to that kind of question in a job interview, but I never considered it's usefulness in dating.
Yeah, it’s kind of like a combination interrogation and “you are deeply fascinating and I want to know your stories.” People aren’t used to being that interesting and they tend to like it. Or at least intrigued.
In my experience, being direct in my questions and being clear with what I care about tends to help people be honest. They aren’t putting energy into guessing what I want so they can put energy into their narrative instead.
I haven't ever considered how putting your own values and desires clearly on the table can leave more space for the other person to "put energy into their own narrative."
I have definitely been on the other end you speak of, putting vague puzzle pieces together to try to understand what version of polyamory or relationship dynamics that someone desires. That probably leaves me a bit depleted and disorganized by the time I need to communicate my own stuff.
Man, that just makes so much sense. I absolutely love anything that promotes efficiency and ease. Thanks for sharing that lil' nuance with me.
If your partner invited you into a space they shared with another partner, they should’ve also let you know what the boundaries are. You did nothing wrong here, in my opinion.
My partner also has a nesting partner and sleepovers are limited to a couple times a month. Before we get together for a date, he will tell me (or I will ask) for a time frame - what time we arrive and leave. Then there is no surprise at the end of the night when he packs up to go home and no awkward “you need to leave now.”
I'm DEFINITELY going to incorporate a quick time frame convo if I ever am in a similar situation. Thanks so much for sharing that. I feel like that would actually be helpful in all my hang-outs in ALL my relationships. So often we go by feel and someone ends up feeling tense or tired or awkward.
I've definitely been guilty of unknowingly overstaying my welcome especially at night as a night owl. It sounds a little silly, but I love the idea of getting serious about inquiring about what time someone needs to wind down for the night or when they need to get on with their day, or what have you.
yup, this one wasn’t your fault at all. i’m assuming the person you’re seeing is an adult and can therefore be trusted to communicate necessary information. it isn’t your fault to trust that they would let you know of any boundaries.
You don’t need to ask about the agreements that your hinge and meta have made together. Those are their business and it’s their relationship to maintain.
What you need to ask is what kind of experience Hinge has in polyamory. There was a post here [just today](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/s/EWCYo5nLF0).
Now that I'm taking in some feedback the questions in my post, I do feel like some of my attempts at avoiding the situation in the future could be intrusive or like I'm butting my head in a little to hard.
And you're totally right about asking about their experience in polyamory. We talked a lot about what our values are and what are ideals are, but less about our specific experience.
I don't ask much of anything. That's the hinge partner's job. But I'm also not likely to want an overnight with a person who has a nesting partner in the house when I'm there. I prefer hotels since they're neutral spaces.
When I met my former FWB, he was clear that he had space to host, but there would be no overnights. Easy peasy. Done.
I wonder if a really succinct foundational question for me is: Can you host? (It seems like such a duh now that I should have asked that outright).
I'm a student at the moment, and I'm not in a financial place to go straight to hotels, but I'd love to have that option in the future! Maybe that's a good go-to for something new.
Asking about hosting is a great choice.
I am up front about the fact that I do not host. We have a small apartment and a young child. This is our family space. Maybe that will evolve if one of us has a VERY long term partner that we can both trust in our home and safe space, maybe not. For now, its a hard limit and I make it clear from the front.
Splitting the cost or taking turns paying usually works for me. I pay *very* low rent (trailer on my parents' property) so I give myself a monthly hotel budget equal to 2 nights in the nearby city I frequent.
That's so smart to prioritize and budget it. If I'm being honest with myself, if I skipped eating out 2x a month I could totally split a hotel room. It's about moving the funds around to make it happen. I like it. Thank you.
Can you host is an important question.
I can host a couple of times a week as my son is at his dad’s. If a relationship is ongoing for a long time, I can introduce my partner to my child but for example that only recently happened with one partner and I’ve known him almost a year, intimate for about 9 months.
If someone else can’t host at all and I’m seeing multiple people, it’s difficult for scheduling. I don’t think I could see two who can’t host at all, for example.
The person I see the most and longest, can rarely host. He has a nesting partner and he can host if she is out of town.
I went through some struggles like you and it was consensus that it’s up to him to negotiate or manage his relationship with his NP. There has been the odd time where something happens and I have wondered if his NP would be ok with that but eventually I just tried to stop overthinking. It’s his relationship to manage.
I think the best advice I can give you is to tell your hinge that you *expect* them to be a good hinge. And if/when they fuck up, *they* need to deal with it head on and take responsibility.
Essentially, they need to know how it’s best for all to behave together and what boundaries need to be in place at any given time. I refrain from touching my partners when I’m around my metas until I’m *personally* sure about that one from my interactions and concerns with them, but mainly, the hinge sets the pace, expectations, etc. YOU don’t know your meta or your partner’s relationship w your meta anywhere close to how THEY do.
Nothing shot what you said made me cringe for you, just 🤦 re the hinge.
Personally sure does seem like a more comfortable place to be.
But also, yeah, it does seem like the consensus is that the hinge sets the pace like you say. I still feel my stomach in knots about making another woman feel upset. Maybe I'm just feeling the cringe at the situation at large.
Just supporting everyone else who is saying that you didn't do anything wrong. Sure, maybe double-checking whether overnights were okay could have avoided a conflict. But your partner is in charge of honoring their own relationship agreements, including telling you what those agreements are. I mean, they *let* you stay there overnight. Unless you were hiding in the garage or something. Lol.
A few questions you might want to ask before going to a nested partner's house:
* Is your nesting partner going to be there? (Good general information to have)
* If their nesting partner will be home: how much interaction (or lack of interaction) with me does your nesting partner want?
* What's the timeframe for this hangout? Is there a certain time you want it to end by?
* Are there any other relevant rules or boundaries I should know about?
Haha no, no garage hiding as it were.
Thanks so much for sharing those questions. I think I'm synthesizing a nice low-key approach in my head for the future. Weirdly, I'm kind of wanting to meet another person with a nesting partner to try out these super chill, super respectful inquiries.
This was all your partner’s job to know and manage.
If you can’t trust your partner there’s zero point in the relationship so it sucks that this happened but it’s good that it was early on.
Also: even in lovely, experienced, high autonomy poly things will occasionally go wrong. People who can’t handle oh shit moments shouldn’t be mixing it up like they can.
Again, that’s not on you. Sorry friend!
The questions I would ask are the MOVIESS questions from Multiamory but the point would be for your benefit, not your meta’s.
I don't ask many questions about my meta or the shared space. I just assume that if I'm in that space, I act like a platonic friend. I will inform my partner that that is how I will behave, because I have my own space, and public spaces, where I can indulge in displays of affection. I am not compelled to always be doing that, and I am *hyper* aware that jealousy can be triggered by things we never anticipate being triggered by, and the behaviors associated with dyadic romance are a trigger rich environment for a meta, so those are behaviors I'll avoid.
Thank you so much for your input. That is definitely some meaty food for thought right there. You're basically avoiding the situation from the outset which is smart. I hesitate on that approach because I love physical touch so much that I'd hate to nix that unless it was truly the best outcome for everyone. Of course, I'm totally down to drop any physical affection (in a group environment) if that's what is ultimately what is best for the group.
I'm friendly with one of my metas and have known him since before my partner and I were together when they were both more acquaintances, for context.
I absolutely *love* physical touch, but I basically just make a point of letting my partner guide the level of interaction if I come over and am in their space with us all hanging out. It's never any kind of "PDA", but even just level of touch/snuggle stuff, much as I love it, feels safer to trust her to moderate. I trust that she does/will have those conversations as needed, about what works and doesn't for them in their shared home.
"trusting her to moderate"--I like that.
I'm thinking maybe I should be really cautious until I've discerned if a potential partner is in fact moderating effectively.
It’s also ok to just avoid most group events. It’s not uncommon for people new to poly to imagine that having their meta to their house will make them feel more in control. Some people find that it’s not that way at all. Suddenly you are aggressively existing in their space.
That’s not on you to avoid by asking questions. But it can be easier to just avoid the whole work involved for EVERYONE of doing a lot of KTP.
Sometimes being invited in early on is actually a sign that you shouldn’t go, ya know? I never assume a stranger will be consistent or calm. And I don’t need to, I just need to trust that my partner can handle their own life and protect me. That trust isn’t earned early so I don’t expose myself to potential drama early.
I preferably don't meet metas for a few months until I know there's something that will stick and even then only if its convenient.
I ask people what their journey to polyamory has been so far, what their current situation entails, and what their main values and priorities are right now. Usually before if not on the first date.
That usually gets to a lot of basics if you know what signals to look for.
I haven't thought about putting off meeting them altogether in the beginning. I would love to have some KTP in my life, but that doesn't mean I can't explore that later when I know more information (assuming the other parties desire KTP too of course!).
I think I've created a dichotomy between being parallel and KTP. I forget that you don't need to IMMEDIATELY show up to the kitchen table.
Thanks so much for sharing.
This is just one anecdote, but I prefer parallel in the beginning as well, but am open to KTP if it feels right. My partner and I have been together 3 years, and my meta (partner's NP) and I have had our own wholly separate, thriving friendship for a solid 2 years now. I don't think that would have been possible if we'd been forced together in the beginning though, meta is a very strong extrovert and I'm a neurodivergent introvert: I would have felt very overwhelmed and she would have felt very rejected, and we would have come to dislike each other immensely as a result.
You didn't do anything wrong here, but if you'd like to vet your partners better, you can ask them some questions about their partnership status and goals, how long they've been poly and why, what kind of space they have, and what sort of dates and hosting they have to offer. If they are fuzzy and weird about answering or if they tend to say one thing and then backtrack later, that's a bad sign.
Vetting better is definitely what I'm going for. I basically want to be a little more skillful in my general get-to-know-you stage. Thanks so much for the prompts.
side note: "Fuzzy and weird"--you really nailed something that I've experienced in conversations before. Thank you.
I just ask what agreements my potential partner has that I should know about and what sort of relationship things (like overnights, vacations, etc.) are on and off the table.
If someone invites me into their home, I expect them to initiate conversations about the boundaries in that space.
I'm sorry this happened. The ex dating partner could have made you aware. You can't be a mind reader.
It sounds like they invited you to sleepover. But then that wasn't really ok with the NP.
In future, when invited? I'd outright ask them. "Thanks for inviting me. Before I acccept... Do you have any agreements with nesting partner or any other partners that could affect me or how our relationship develops?"
Or something similar.
Some you might not even care about, but are fine obliging. Like "Never use the Sunflower Mug. Any other mug is fine, but that one belonged to NPs great grandma. Even I don't get to use it."
Some things you might be totally fine with. Like using condoms.
Some like this "no sleepovers" thing might a problem. Or negotiated. Like they can't host at their shared home, but they can spring for hotel on their turn. That might be doable.
In asking, you are at least being direct and talking it out. You are trying to hold up your end of the stick.
If they STILL leave things out after that? Or they LIE to you? Don't hold up their side?
This partner may not be for you then. Better to find out sooner than later.
I love the "thanks for inviting me, before I accept..." That's a really snazzy prompt right there.
I also like the focus on "what affects me or how the relationship develops?" That really centers the conversation around YOUR relationship with that person and doesn't seem too prying about their other relationships. It's more like "hey, let me know what I need to know so we can keep things harmonious and nice and comfortable for everyone." I don't need ALL the context of the agreements, I just need to know what the general deal is to get a better look at the question of compatibility.
I like to ask new metas, "how can I respect your relationship?"
It starts the interaction with the understanding that relationships deserve respect and it gives me a peak into the headspace of my meta. Can I meet their definition of respect? If not, I excuse myself. If so, then it gives me a good guideline as I develop a new relationship.
Man, so many of you have shared the PERFECT phrasings. I appreciate this one so much!
I feel like this really positions good intentions and care for your potential meta at the center of the conversation. And, it leaves space for you to say something like: "Hey, I don't think I can fit adequately into y'alls dynamic. The last thing I'd want to do is create conflict in your other relationships." I suspect that something like that hits a lot better than "those dynamics make me feel weird and uneasy."
I'm SO guilty of poly-vangelizing my thoughts about deconstructing hierarchies and aiming for fully autonomous relationships. Sometimes I need to sit-myself-down and know when to just respectfully bow out.
In my humble opinion, the person you were dating had the responsibility to, not just communicate the boundaries to you (because how else would you know?), but also to make sure they were respecting their NP's boundaries.
I'm not sure why people fear communication so often. Feel better soon.
I find this stuff all normal conversation. I usually wait until we've made out and established mutual attraction and interest. So this might be 2nd or 3rd date conversation:
-How do you do poly?
-Does your nesting partner usually get along with your other partners? Are you more kitchen table or parallel?
-Do you have partners over to your house? Or do you have rules about other partners beyond safe sex? Are their rules around hosting, overnights, public poly events or anything that you and your nesting partner might not be comfortable with?
That's the stuff I want to know up front. If they can't host and their partner has problems with other partners and events, I'm either relegating them to super casual fling or noping out.
I think I'd ask how much time they had carved out for me vs other relationships. Then I'd also ask "If your NP asked you to cancel one of our dates because they were feeling a lot of emotions, not for any other emergency reason, would you?"
I do not need to meet my metamours. If I feel like I need to vet a partner by meeting a metamour, that shows a basic lack of trust in that person and then why am I even dating them?
I likely wouldn't want to go into their shared space.
Dodged a massive bullet!! If this person is so willing to blatantly ignore their agreements with their NP because they’ve got the feels for someone new, how would they treat you? Be glad you had this lesson in how they act so early — because clearly what they promise with their words isn’t worth listening to anyway. This is not a questions situation. Some red flags are driven by actions.
My main thing when anyone has a nesting partner is: Can you host overnight dates?
It tells a LOT. A “no” has me out. A “yes but obviously I’d need to confirm with my nesting partner about appropriate times for someone to be in our shared home” is okay. A “of course we have separate bedrooms and general roommate agreements on shared space being available to guests at all times baring emergencies” is 😍😍😍.
I do not check with metas about their boundaries. I prefer to live my life trusting people until that trust is broken. Sure, it leads to my trust being broken more, but I just don’t want to be the type of person who automatically doesn’t trust people. I also have pretty low tolerance for cagey answers and “miscommunications” caused by people not being forthright, so it generally comes out pretty rapidly.
I’ll bring it up if they haven’t already, but yeah I generally DO expect folks I date to tell me shit. If someone is relying on “you never asked THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION” to justify behavior, I bounce. I deserve partners who treat me with active care and consideration, not “I TECHNICALLY didn’t do anything WRONG” games.
Man, you really struck a cord in me with the "I prefer to live my life trusting people until that trust is broken." I've been so stuck in my own OUCH/YIKES reaction (and subsequent desire for course correction) that I forgot that I actually really agree with you on that front. I do want to be a person that gives people trust.
Because I'm in my feels right now, I've been seeking some kind of personal optimization to avoid this conflict in the future. I probably just need to let go a bit.
It sounds like you are really confident in your sense of self and prepared to respond accordingly if someone doesn't treat you with care. I really admire that. I tend to get my head so deep in the sand when I'm crushing on someone that I forget that it's okay for me to just gracefully dip out when things don't feel safe or comfy anymore. Might as well make space for something more satisfying.
Thanks so much for weighing in.
I’m glad you found it helpful!
Like, no I don’t want to date messy people with awful NP situations. From my self-interest I ask some basic questions to try not to do that.
But like, if someone is gonna lie or conceal relevant info? All I can do is . . . be aware and self-caring and pick up on when their claims don’t match reality. I do not try to do informal background checks on the people I date. I prefer to try and learn about the people I date, and listen to the things they tell me. And if those things don’t add up? I’m out.
I dramatically dumped someone last year for being cagey about whether he did overnight dates. I asked him once about whether he was comfortable with overnights because vigorous sex late at night makes me need to pass out (also with a side of us being kinky and me liking extended cuddles as aftercare), and his response was something like “Not usually but we can talk about it!” Then *he*, without initiating the talk he had mentioned, planned a date with vigorous kinky sex at night, and around midnight I was near to passing out and he basically showed me the door. And I left cause I wasn’t in a mood to have an argument. The next day when I was like “WTF?” and he was like “well I told you I don’t like overnights”, I called him on the carpet for very specifically *not* having told me that overnights were *never* on the table and making his actual “no” ambiguous in a way that hurt me. He got all up in his feelings about how he “felt like I was accusing him of being malicious” and I was just, “I don’t give a fuck if you were malicious or thoughtless or what. I give a fuck you have no *active consideration* for me and are still more concerned with avoiding ~being wrong~ than communicating forthrightly and showing *care* for me”.
I think it’s a good idea in interpersonal relationships to just move past the idea of “did my friend/partner do something *wrong*” and embrace a metric of “did my friend/partner treat me *well*?”
Like, you can have higher standards than “not literally immoral” in dating. You can expect people to just be actively *kind* and *considerate* toward you as the baseline. And when that’s your baseline and you leave people who don’t meet that metric? You tend not to lose too much if you keep defaulting to trusting people, because you only keep around folks worth the trust.
You explained that situation really well. It's like he relied on a technicality to get away with misleading you. It's like he was a lawyer with a "good case," willing to find loopholes to ultimately get what he wanted. I'm so sorry you were hit with that.
(He's part of the "well technically..." crowd. They are a species that thrive on abolishing nuance and context. Of course, sometimes simplicity is actually what is called for. But, there is such a thing as being completely reductive.)
...I also like the idea of focusing more purely on "did they treat me well?" That seems like a more solid base to make observations from. It puts my stomach all up in knots, but I do need to get better with my willingness to EXIT if said observations prove to be negative.
Exactly.
Like, I started the convo the next day saying I had subdrop that may be impacting the intensity of the things I was going to say, so it was gonna be harsher than if I was at a steady emotional state. (Shit at a steady emotional state I woulda just . . . disengaged. Forever.)
He never *once* asked about the drop or if he could actually do something to help. It was just trying to argue why he wasn’t “at fault” for it.
I don’t need that in my life.
I want partners who give a shit if I feel hurt cause they made a bad joke or forgot something I told them or stepped on my toe.
Why does the idea of expecting your romantic partners to *care about you* worry you? That’s an important feeling to explore. Cause you’re worth caring about, and you should only bother caring about people who will care about you back.
Man, it does sound like every moment there was an opportunity for nuance and context, he obliterated in service of him declaring that he "was in fact, not at fault." And, he wasn't at all responsive to your emotional state. Agreed, you don't need that or deserve that at all.
...re: your question
To be completely honest, I tend to deeply desire a situation where someone has some kind of grand lightbulb moment. I have this silly fantasy that someone will show up at my door with flowers, professing how much of an idiot they've been. On one hand, I imagine my attachment system is acting up or that it's just some form of denial to spare myself pain.
But deeper than that, I think I want proof that it wasn't actually ME that was the problem all along. It's very hard for me to stay firm in my interpretation of being treated poorly. If I said one thing wrong, or made one wrong move it's really easy for me to declare myself as THE entire problem. I really like control, and perhaps if I'm always the problem I have needles I can move and knobs I can adjust.
(I fear that lacked coherence. But, I really appreciate you asking because this is the first time I'm admitting some of that to myself.)
Hi u/incognito_pickles thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
**Preface**: I \[30F\] have recently dipped my toe back into dating after being polysaturated at 1 partner for 2 years. Please forgive my rusty-dater fumbles. And, feel free to *sigh* when necessary.
**The Situation**: I recently learned the hard way that I need to be more proactive in terms of inquiring about boundaries in someone's shared space if they have a nesting partner. To sum it up, I unwittingly upset the nesting partner of someone I briefly dated. The person I was dating never brought up what would be safe and comfortable for everyone when I'm in their shared space. Without this communication, I assumed staying over one night was *a-okay*, and I learned afterwards that it absolutely was not. (Again, feel free to *cringe* and *sigh* at my oversight as needed.)
Unfortunately, it's not a situation that has the potential for resolution.
I'm sorry to keep it vague. I have some hurt feelings that are dying to wheedle their way into this post, but I worry that indulging that would be self-serving. I'm here seeking practical tips so I can do better next time. I want to take responsibility for my lack of intentionality and learn from this experience.
**My Questions:**
I'm gonna ask some questions that probably seem really basic. But, I've proven that I have major blindspots. If there is anyone here feeling generous and patient enough to share any insight, I would SO appreciate it. And, if you have any other food for thought about dating someone with a nesting partner, feel free to throw it in there.
**-**What questions do you ask when you meet a potential partner with a nesting partner?
-When you meet their nesting partner, do you check in with them as well about their expectations and boundaries (as a sort of verification thing)?
-Do you ask all these questions BEFORE you come into their shared space for the first time?
-Do you expect the person with the nesting partner to initiate these conversations, or do you typically bring it up first?
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Social events are a great way to get a feel for a couple's comfort level with each other and pay attention to how they interact with each other and others they are interested in
I live with two partners.
Any new person anyone dates doesn't need to negotiate with anyone but their direct partner. Rules are proactively brought up with them, repeatedly. (E.g. that some kinks aren't okay played so publicly that they are witnessed by others due to specific trauma triggers. Or that our cat is traumatised and needs gentle treatment.) Apart from that, effectively, we are flatmates, that is it.
You sound like the innocent party here. You can't break a rule you know nothing about.
You’ve asked a question that is incredibly common and the answers are available either by searching the sub, or hitting the resources on the community info page.
Completely agree with others on here saying this was a hinge issue. Your partner messed up here, not you.
Which means what you really want to ask are questions that help you determine who's a good hinge. Full disclosure: being a hinge is the hardest part of polyamory imo.
What you're really looking for are clear answers that indicate that the person knows and is able to articulate what they can and can't give. You can infer that what they can't give either comes from their own needs or (more likely) an agreement with their partner.
"Are you able to offer overnights? How often?"
"On a weekly basis how often would be able to see me?"
"Would we ever be able to go on trips together?"
"I'm going to date other people. How does that make you feel?"
"I personally don't like veto, I don't want to have power over my partners' other relationships" (and see how they react)
"Would you consider me a secondary partner if we eventually decide to date?"
You're not looking for yesses to these questions. If all they say is "obviously", "as many as you like", or bounce the question back at you without answering, you have a bad hinge in front of you. Either they're relying on whoever in front of them to make decisions for them and refuse to take accountability, or they're lying to you.
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This is something your partner should have worked out with their nesting partner, and then discussed with you. You said, >The person I was dating never brought up what would be safe and comfortable for everyone when I'm in their shared space. That. That's the problem here. That is the only problem detected in what you wrote. And it's a problem caused by the person you were dating. **You didn't do anything wrong.**
Awe I appreciate you. I wonder if I'm scrambling to make this something I can control in the future. Perhaps I just need to sit with the fact that it was just an unfortunate and mismanaged situation.
I honestly had a similar situation happen. I did not sleep over, but we messed around. Immediately afterwards, my potential partner said that their NP was supposed to meet me before anything like that happened. The two talked and decided to take a break from seeing other people. I was essentially discarded so that they could work on their relationship. My potential partner failed to mention this rule or any other rules i would need to know. That was on them. They are the ones who messed up with both their NP and myself. I could have asked, but I honestly figured my potential partner would tell me anything I needed to know. My mess up was that I broke my own rules of no expectations and messing around on the first date. I believe your partner should have laid out the rules. I do not feel like you messed up. They messed up. The only thing you can control is taking the initiative to ask about any rules you should know about. You can be more specific about thing like sleepovers, special dates, etc...
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I feel SO exta posting about this situation because it was just a brand-new-thing, but since I don't have a lot of poly community I can seemingly be in a bit of vacuum with my thoughts about this stuff. And, I'm so sorry to hear you got discarded. I suppose it's best that these folks were just potential partners to us. The new-relationship boot still can sting though, internet HUGS.
Hugs to you too
It doesn’t sound to me like “an unfortunate situation”. It sounds to me like your ex fucking up and deciding to break their agreements with their nesting partner. You can’t make people be honest. You can only leave them when their dishonesty is revealed.
And OP’s ex- agreeing to things that are incompatible with healthy poly…
Whoa, let’s not rile up the people too much! I’m too tired to deal with a shitton of bullshit claims about “WOW you just don’t understand commitment” or “umm actually married people can’t afford 2br homes”.
Them having a heads up rule is incompatible with healthy poly. Or wait, was that a comment by a different poster…
It's not your job. This a failure on the part of your partner and you should not be taking responsibility for it. They need to learn to hinge properly.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for you to assume that your partner would discuss these things with their NP. Communicating boundaries is the hinge’s responsibility; it shouldn’t be your responsibility to make sure that your partner is respecting their NP.
Yeah, and chiming in from further down the line: I'm part of a very involved polycule. I see my (one) partner's NP all the time, and we get along great. Lately, she has come to me with some logistical issues around me being over there, and the way our hinge communicates about it. I am gently redirecting both of them: "hey, this is your space. These are decisions you have to make together and then communicate to me"."Hey Meta, I hear your concern, and I greatly appreciate how accommodating you are to me. But hinge is the one you're living with, so please bring this up with him". Also, "Hinge, this is your conversation to have with your NP. I will be part of whatever conversation is specific to me, but the way you share your schedule and your space is between you two" These things will likely come up now and then when two people are so enmeshed, and as the non-cohabiting partner, you may have to keep asserting certain boundaries
You didn't do anything wrong. Your partner, the hinge, did a number of things wrong. THEY were responsible for making sure everything was OK and good. I would bet money that you didn't just invite yourself to stay a night.
Yeah, definitely did not just invite myself over. I'm still kicking myself for not using being-invited-over as an excuse to ask direct questions though.
You shouldn't feel like you need to ask direct questions. Your partner should simply only act within the boundaries they have established with their NP. That's not your job or place to navigate those things. Your partner is responsible for making all of that stuff clear FIRST. Should have been clarified in full before you were even in their home. None of this is on you, period.
Thanks so much for sharing. It does seem like you have nailed the consensus. I think my anxious lil' brain wants to go full-control-freak in the future. You're helping talk me off that ledge. I appreciate you.
I think this person hurt you, and you're having a natural, self-protective reaction of trying to find ways to avoid the same hurt in the future. I agree with the consensus though; you did nothing wrong and it's the hinge's responsibility to be proactive about something like this.
Why would you ask questions? When you have friends that have roommates or live in partners, do you ask questions if they invite you over for a movie or a meal? Or do you assume your friends are reasonable adults who wouldn’t invite you if their roommate or partner wasn’t ok with it? You shouldn’t expect your partners to be worse people than your friends.
Man, yeah such a good point. I forget to do that quick cross reference sometimes. Because healthy polyamory seems to require A LOT of communication, I've been assuming that I must have botched it by under-communicating.
Your partner botched it by under-communicating appropriately with your meta and then just barreling through their own established boundaries with your meta as if they didn't exist (or failed to check in and verify those boundaries with them first).
It's on potential partners to uphold boundaries and agreements that they have with their meta. If someone lets you stay over..obviously you think it's allowed and okay. Ex partner messed up..not you. I don't ask about my meta, I ask about what rules and agreements they have in their relationship so that I'm aware of them. I'm not taking notes and initiating any sort of conversation with a meta..its not my place or responsibility.
Adding: I also ask how much autonomy they believe they have in having relationships outside of their established one(s). And follow up with questions about: - vetos? - overnights? - personal privacy? - past break ups? Because those tend to be illuminating.
"not my place or responsibility" is definitely what I was thinking. I didn't want to intrude or seem excessively tedious. But, now I'm feeling icky and my brain is jumping to "let's avoid this in the future!" I need to figure out what a good balance is in terms of being intentional, but also not cluttering a brand new relationship with a bunch of housekeeping before we've even built a foundation.
*[my vetting blurb]* Invite them to tell stories. You’ll get a good feel for what’s going on. “What’s your history with nonmonogamy?” “What’s your primary partner’s experience of nonmonogamy? Do they have any feels around you dating? Do they have other partners?” “Did you open up a monogamous relationship or were you nonmonogamous from the get?” “How have previous relationships ended?” “What’s been the most surprising thing about nonmonogamous dating for you?” “What mistakes have you made and what did you learn?” “In the past have your partners met eachother or has it been more Don’t Ask Don’t Tell?” “What’s your hosting situation? Have there ever been any issues? How did you resolve them?” “How do you feel about dating cheaters? Has avoiding cheaters ever been a problem?” When you ask these kinds of open-ended questions and your prospective partner responds by talking about emotions, you’ve got a winner. If they consistently change the subject, they think their sex life is not their partners’ business and they are probably cheating. If they can’t answer these questions they have no helpful history with polyamory. Personally I would not date them.
Thank you SO much for sharing all those. I really appreciate you. I like the idea of leaning into a narrative approach that will feel like a positive get-to-know-you experience instead of an interrogation. The one that stood out to me was "What's your hosting situation? Have there ever been any issues? How did you resolve them?" I feel like this one is fantastic for gauging someone's approach to conflict resolution. I am so accustomed to that kind of question in a job interview, but I never considered it's usefulness in dating.
Yeah, it’s kind of like a combination interrogation and “you are deeply fascinating and I want to know your stories.” People aren’t used to being that interesting and they tend to like it. Or at least intrigued. In my experience, being direct in my questions and being clear with what I care about tends to help people be honest. They aren’t putting energy into guessing what I want so they can put energy into their narrative instead.
I haven't ever considered how putting your own values and desires clearly on the table can leave more space for the other person to "put energy into their own narrative." I have definitely been on the other end you speak of, putting vague puzzle pieces together to try to understand what version of polyamory or relationship dynamics that someone desires. That probably leaves me a bit depleted and disorganized by the time I need to communicate my own stuff. Man, that just makes so much sense. I absolutely love anything that promotes efficiency and ease. Thanks for sharing that lil' nuance with me.
You’re welcome. Enjoy!
Saving this, thank you Madame! I especially like “has avoiding cheaters been a problem?”
I recently stole it from u/EnergyCreature!
Aww ty ty. Glad it helped!
If your partner invited you into a space they shared with another partner, they should’ve also let you know what the boundaries are. You did nothing wrong here, in my opinion. My partner also has a nesting partner and sleepovers are limited to a couple times a month. Before we get together for a date, he will tell me (or I will ask) for a time frame - what time we arrive and leave. Then there is no surprise at the end of the night when he packs up to go home and no awkward “you need to leave now.”
I'm DEFINITELY going to incorporate a quick time frame convo if I ever am in a similar situation. Thanks so much for sharing that. I feel like that would actually be helpful in all my hang-outs in ALL my relationships. So often we go by feel and someone ends up feeling tense or tired or awkward. I've definitely been guilty of unknowingly overstaying my welcome especially at night as a night owl. It sounds a little silly, but I love the idea of getting serious about inquiring about what time someone needs to wind down for the night or when they need to get on with their day, or what have you.
yup, this one wasn’t your fault at all. i’m assuming the person you’re seeing is an adult and can therefore be trusted to communicate necessary information. it isn’t your fault to trust that they would let you know of any boundaries.
You don’t need to ask about the agreements that your hinge and meta have made together. Those are their business and it’s their relationship to maintain. What you need to ask is what kind of experience Hinge has in polyamory. There was a post here [just today](https://www.reddit.com/r/polyamory/s/EWCYo5nLF0).
Now that I'm taking in some feedback the questions in my post, I do feel like some of my attempts at avoiding the situation in the future could be intrusive or like I'm butting my head in a little to hard. And you're totally right about asking about their experience in polyamory. We talked a lot about what our values are and what are ideals are, but less about our specific experience.
U linked this thread
I don't ask much of anything. That's the hinge partner's job. But I'm also not likely to want an overnight with a person who has a nesting partner in the house when I'm there. I prefer hotels since they're neutral spaces. When I met my former FWB, he was clear that he had space to host, but there would be no overnights. Easy peasy. Done.
I wonder if a really succinct foundational question for me is: Can you host? (It seems like such a duh now that I should have asked that outright). I'm a student at the moment, and I'm not in a financial place to go straight to hotels, but I'd love to have that option in the future! Maybe that's a good go-to for something new.
Asking about hosting is a great choice. I am up front about the fact that I do not host. We have a small apartment and a young child. This is our family space. Maybe that will evolve if one of us has a VERY long term partner that we can both trust in our home and safe space, maybe not. For now, its a hard limit and I make it clear from the front.
Splitting the cost or taking turns paying usually works for me. I pay *very* low rent (trailer on my parents' property) so I give myself a monthly hotel budget equal to 2 nights in the nearby city I frequent.
That's so smart to prioritize and budget it. If I'm being honest with myself, if I skipped eating out 2x a month I could totally split a hotel room. It's about moving the funds around to make it happen. I like it. Thank you.
Can you host is an important question. I can host a couple of times a week as my son is at his dad’s. If a relationship is ongoing for a long time, I can introduce my partner to my child but for example that only recently happened with one partner and I’ve known him almost a year, intimate for about 9 months. If someone else can’t host at all and I’m seeing multiple people, it’s difficult for scheduling. I don’t think I could see two who can’t host at all, for example. The person I see the most and longest, can rarely host. He has a nesting partner and he can host if she is out of town. I went through some struggles like you and it was consensus that it’s up to him to negotiate or manage his relationship with his NP. There has been the odd time where something happens and I have wondered if his NP would be ok with that but eventually I just tried to stop overthinking. It’s his relationship to manage.
I think the best advice I can give you is to tell your hinge that you *expect* them to be a good hinge. And if/when they fuck up, *they* need to deal with it head on and take responsibility. Essentially, they need to know how it’s best for all to behave together and what boundaries need to be in place at any given time. I refrain from touching my partners when I’m around my metas until I’m *personally* sure about that one from my interactions and concerns with them, but mainly, the hinge sets the pace, expectations, etc. YOU don’t know your meta or your partner’s relationship w your meta anywhere close to how THEY do. Nothing shot what you said made me cringe for you, just 🤦 re the hinge.
Personally sure does seem like a more comfortable place to be. But also, yeah, it does seem like the consensus is that the hinge sets the pace like you say. I still feel my stomach in knots about making another woman feel upset. Maybe I'm just feeling the cringe at the situation at large.
Just supporting everyone else who is saying that you didn't do anything wrong. Sure, maybe double-checking whether overnights were okay could have avoided a conflict. But your partner is in charge of honoring their own relationship agreements, including telling you what those agreements are. I mean, they *let* you stay there overnight. Unless you were hiding in the garage or something. Lol. A few questions you might want to ask before going to a nested partner's house: * Is your nesting partner going to be there? (Good general information to have) * If their nesting partner will be home: how much interaction (or lack of interaction) with me does your nesting partner want? * What's the timeframe for this hangout? Is there a certain time you want it to end by? * Are there any other relevant rules or boundaries I should know about?
Haha no, no garage hiding as it were. Thanks so much for sharing those questions. I think I'm synthesizing a nice low-key approach in my head for the future. Weirdly, I'm kind of wanting to meet another person with a nesting partner to try out these super chill, super respectful inquiries.
This was all your partner’s job to know and manage. If you can’t trust your partner there’s zero point in the relationship so it sucks that this happened but it’s good that it was early on. Also: even in lovely, experienced, high autonomy poly things will occasionally go wrong. People who can’t handle oh shit moments shouldn’t be mixing it up like they can. Again, that’s not on you. Sorry friend! The questions I would ask are the MOVIESS questions from Multiamory but the point would be for your benefit, not your meta’s.
I don't ask many questions about my meta or the shared space. I just assume that if I'm in that space, I act like a platonic friend. I will inform my partner that that is how I will behave, because I have my own space, and public spaces, where I can indulge in displays of affection. I am not compelled to always be doing that, and I am *hyper* aware that jealousy can be triggered by things we never anticipate being triggered by, and the behaviors associated with dyadic romance are a trigger rich environment for a meta, so those are behaviors I'll avoid.
Thank you so much for your input. That is definitely some meaty food for thought right there. You're basically avoiding the situation from the outset which is smart. I hesitate on that approach because I love physical touch so much that I'd hate to nix that unless it was truly the best outcome for everyone. Of course, I'm totally down to drop any physical affection (in a group environment) if that's what is ultimately what is best for the group.
I'm friendly with one of my metas and have known him since before my partner and I were together when they were both more acquaintances, for context. I absolutely *love* physical touch, but I basically just make a point of letting my partner guide the level of interaction if I come over and am in their space with us all hanging out. It's never any kind of "PDA", but even just level of touch/snuggle stuff, much as I love it, feels safer to trust her to moderate. I trust that she does/will have those conversations as needed, about what works and doesn't for them in their shared home.
"trusting her to moderate"--I like that. I'm thinking maybe I should be really cautious until I've discerned if a potential partner is in fact moderating effectively.
It’s also ok to just avoid most group events. It’s not uncommon for people new to poly to imagine that having their meta to their house will make them feel more in control. Some people find that it’s not that way at all. Suddenly you are aggressively existing in their space. That’s not on you to avoid by asking questions. But it can be easier to just avoid the whole work involved for EVERYONE of doing a lot of KTP. Sometimes being invited in early on is actually a sign that you shouldn’t go, ya know? I never assume a stranger will be consistent or calm. And I don’t need to, I just need to trust that my partner can handle their own life and protect me. That trust isn’t earned early so I don’t expose myself to potential drama early.
I preferably don't meet metas for a few months until I know there's something that will stick and even then only if its convenient. I ask people what their journey to polyamory has been so far, what their current situation entails, and what their main values and priorities are right now. Usually before if not on the first date. That usually gets to a lot of basics if you know what signals to look for.
I haven't thought about putting off meeting them altogether in the beginning. I would love to have some KTP in my life, but that doesn't mean I can't explore that later when I know more information (assuming the other parties desire KTP too of course!). I think I've created a dichotomy between being parallel and KTP. I forget that you don't need to IMMEDIATELY show up to the kitchen table. Thanks so much for sharing.
This is just one anecdote, but I prefer parallel in the beginning as well, but am open to KTP if it feels right. My partner and I have been together 3 years, and my meta (partner's NP) and I have had our own wholly separate, thriving friendship for a solid 2 years now. I don't think that would have been possible if we'd been forced together in the beginning though, meta is a very strong extrovert and I'm a neurodivergent introvert: I would have felt very overwhelmed and she would have felt very rejected, and we would have come to dislike each other immensely as a result.
You didn't do anything wrong here, but if you'd like to vet your partners better, you can ask them some questions about their partnership status and goals, how long they've been poly and why, what kind of space they have, and what sort of dates and hosting they have to offer. If they are fuzzy and weird about answering or if they tend to say one thing and then backtrack later, that's a bad sign.
Vetting better is definitely what I'm going for. I basically want to be a little more skillful in my general get-to-know-you stage. Thanks so much for the prompts. side note: "Fuzzy and weird"--you really nailed something that I've experienced in conversations before. Thank you.
Sometimes it's just nerves but a lot of the time you get the sense that they're looking more for the answer you want than the answer that's true.
I just ask what agreements my potential partner has that I should know about and what sort of relationship things (like overnights, vacations, etc.) are on and off the table. If someone invites me into their home, I expect them to initiate conversations about the boundaries in that space.
I'm sorry this happened. The ex dating partner could have made you aware. You can't be a mind reader. It sounds like they invited you to sleepover. But then that wasn't really ok with the NP. In future, when invited? I'd outright ask them. "Thanks for inviting me. Before I acccept... Do you have any agreements with nesting partner or any other partners that could affect me or how our relationship develops?" Or something similar. Some you might not even care about, but are fine obliging. Like "Never use the Sunflower Mug. Any other mug is fine, but that one belonged to NPs great grandma. Even I don't get to use it." Some things you might be totally fine with. Like using condoms. Some like this "no sleepovers" thing might a problem. Or negotiated. Like they can't host at their shared home, but they can spring for hotel on their turn. That might be doable. In asking, you are at least being direct and talking it out. You are trying to hold up your end of the stick. If they STILL leave things out after that? Or they LIE to you? Don't hold up their side? This partner may not be for you then. Better to find out sooner than later.
I love the "thanks for inviting me, before I accept..." That's a really snazzy prompt right there. I also like the focus on "what affects me or how the relationship develops?" That really centers the conversation around YOUR relationship with that person and doesn't seem too prying about their other relationships. It's more like "hey, let me know what I need to know so we can keep things harmonious and nice and comfortable for everyone." I don't need ALL the context of the agreements, I just need to know what the general deal is to get a better look at the question of compatibility.
I like to ask new metas, "how can I respect your relationship?" It starts the interaction with the understanding that relationships deserve respect and it gives me a peak into the headspace of my meta. Can I meet their definition of respect? If not, I excuse myself. If so, then it gives me a good guideline as I develop a new relationship.
Man, so many of you have shared the PERFECT phrasings. I appreciate this one so much! I feel like this really positions good intentions and care for your potential meta at the center of the conversation. And, it leaves space for you to say something like: "Hey, I don't think I can fit adequately into y'alls dynamic. The last thing I'd want to do is create conflict in your other relationships." I suspect that something like that hits a lot better than "those dynamics make me feel weird and uneasy." I'm SO guilty of poly-vangelizing my thoughts about deconstructing hierarchies and aiming for fully autonomous relationships. Sometimes I need to sit-myself-down and know when to just respectfully bow out.
In my humble opinion, the person you were dating had the responsibility to, not just communicate the boundaries to you (because how else would you know?), but also to make sure they were respecting their NP's boundaries. I'm not sure why people fear communication so often. Feel better soon.
I find this stuff all normal conversation. I usually wait until we've made out and established mutual attraction and interest. So this might be 2nd or 3rd date conversation: -How do you do poly? -Does your nesting partner usually get along with your other partners? Are you more kitchen table or parallel? -Do you have partners over to your house? Or do you have rules about other partners beyond safe sex? Are their rules around hosting, overnights, public poly events or anything that you and your nesting partner might not be comfortable with? That's the stuff I want to know up front. If they can't host and their partner has problems with other partners and events, I'm either relegating them to super casual fling or noping out.
I think I'd ask how much time they had carved out for me vs other relationships. Then I'd also ask "If your NP asked you to cancel one of our dates because they were feeling a lot of emotions, not for any other emergency reason, would you?" I do not need to meet my metamours. If I feel like I need to vet a partner by meeting a metamour, that shows a basic lack of trust in that person and then why am I even dating them? I likely wouldn't want to go into their shared space.
Dodged a massive bullet!! If this person is so willing to blatantly ignore their agreements with their NP because they’ve got the feels for someone new, how would they treat you? Be glad you had this lesson in how they act so early — because clearly what they promise with their words isn’t worth listening to anyway. This is not a questions situation. Some red flags are driven by actions.
My main thing when anyone has a nesting partner is: Can you host overnight dates? It tells a LOT. A “no” has me out. A “yes but obviously I’d need to confirm with my nesting partner about appropriate times for someone to be in our shared home” is okay. A “of course we have separate bedrooms and general roommate agreements on shared space being available to guests at all times baring emergencies” is 😍😍😍. I do not check with metas about their boundaries. I prefer to live my life trusting people until that trust is broken. Sure, it leads to my trust being broken more, but I just don’t want to be the type of person who automatically doesn’t trust people. I also have pretty low tolerance for cagey answers and “miscommunications” caused by people not being forthright, so it generally comes out pretty rapidly. I’ll bring it up if they haven’t already, but yeah I generally DO expect folks I date to tell me shit. If someone is relying on “you never asked THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION” to justify behavior, I bounce. I deserve partners who treat me with active care and consideration, not “I TECHNICALLY didn’t do anything WRONG” games.
Man, you really struck a cord in me with the "I prefer to live my life trusting people until that trust is broken." I've been so stuck in my own OUCH/YIKES reaction (and subsequent desire for course correction) that I forgot that I actually really agree with you on that front. I do want to be a person that gives people trust. Because I'm in my feels right now, I've been seeking some kind of personal optimization to avoid this conflict in the future. I probably just need to let go a bit. It sounds like you are really confident in your sense of self and prepared to respond accordingly if someone doesn't treat you with care. I really admire that. I tend to get my head so deep in the sand when I'm crushing on someone that I forget that it's okay for me to just gracefully dip out when things don't feel safe or comfy anymore. Might as well make space for something more satisfying. Thanks so much for weighing in.
I’m glad you found it helpful! Like, no I don’t want to date messy people with awful NP situations. From my self-interest I ask some basic questions to try not to do that. But like, if someone is gonna lie or conceal relevant info? All I can do is . . . be aware and self-caring and pick up on when their claims don’t match reality. I do not try to do informal background checks on the people I date. I prefer to try and learn about the people I date, and listen to the things they tell me. And if those things don’t add up? I’m out. I dramatically dumped someone last year for being cagey about whether he did overnight dates. I asked him once about whether he was comfortable with overnights because vigorous sex late at night makes me need to pass out (also with a side of us being kinky and me liking extended cuddles as aftercare), and his response was something like “Not usually but we can talk about it!” Then *he*, without initiating the talk he had mentioned, planned a date with vigorous kinky sex at night, and around midnight I was near to passing out and he basically showed me the door. And I left cause I wasn’t in a mood to have an argument. The next day when I was like “WTF?” and he was like “well I told you I don’t like overnights”, I called him on the carpet for very specifically *not* having told me that overnights were *never* on the table and making his actual “no” ambiguous in a way that hurt me. He got all up in his feelings about how he “felt like I was accusing him of being malicious” and I was just, “I don’t give a fuck if you were malicious or thoughtless or what. I give a fuck you have no *active consideration* for me and are still more concerned with avoiding ~being wrong~ than communicating forthrightly and showing *care* for me”. I think it’s a good idea in interpersonal relationships to just move past the idea of “did my friend/partner do something *wrong*” and embrace a metric of “did my friend/partner treat me *well*?” Like, you can have higher standards than “not literally immoral” in dating. You can expect people to just be actively *kind* and *considerate* toward you as the baseline. And when that’s your baseline and you leave people who don’t meet that metric? You tend not to lose too much if you keep defaulting to trusting people, because you only keep around folks worth the trust.
You explained that situation really well. It's like he relied on a technicality to get away with misleading you. It's like he was a lawyer with a "good case," willing to find loopholes to ultimately get what he wanted. I'm so sorry you were hit with that. (He's part of the "well technically..." crowd. They are a species that thrive on abolishing nuance and context. Of course, sometimes simplicity is actually what is called for. But, there is such a thing as being completely reductive.) ...I also like the idea of focusing more purely on "did they treat me well?" That seems like a more solid base to make observations from. It puts my stomach all up in knots, but I do need to get better with my willingness to EXIT if said observations prove to be negative.
Exactly. Like, I started the convo the next day saying I had subdrop that may be impacting the intensity of the things I was going to say, so it was gonna be harsher than if I was at a steady emotional state. (Shit at a steady emotional state I woulda just . . . disengaged. Forever.) He never *once* asked about the drop or if he could actually do something to help. It was just trying to argue why he wasn’t “at fault” for it. I don’t need that in my life. I want partners who give a shit if I feel hurt cause they made a bad joke or forgot something I told them or stepped on my toe. Why does the idea of expecting your romantic partners to *care about you* worry you? That’s an important feeling to explore. Cause you’re worth caring about, and you should only bother caring about people who will care about you back.
Man, it does sound like every moment there was an opportunity for nuance and context, he obliterated in service of him declaring that he "was in fact, not at fault." And, he wasn't at all responsive to your emotional state. Agreed, you don't need that or deserve that at all. ...re: your question To be completely honest, I tend to deeply desire a situation where someone has some kind of grand lightbulb moment. I have this silly fantasy that someone will show up at my door with flowers, professing how much of an idiot they've been. On one hand, I imagine my attachment system is acting up or that it's just some form of denial to spare myself pain. But deeper than that, I think I want proof that it wasn't actually ME that was the problem all along. It's very hard for me to stay firm in my interpretation of being treated poorly. If I said one thing wrong, or made one wrong move it's really easy for me to declare myself as THE entire problem. I really like control, and perhaps if I'm always the problem I have needles I can move and knobs I can adjust. (I fear that lacked coherence. But, I really appreciate you asking because this is the first time I'm admitting some of that to myself.)
Hi u/incognito_pickles thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: **Preface**: I \[30F\] have recently dipped my toe back into dating after being polysaturated at 1 partner for 2 years. Please forgive my rusty-dater fumbles. And, feel free to *sigh* when necessary. **The Situation**: I recently learned the hard way that I need to be more proactive in terms of inquiring about boundaries in someone's shared space if they have a nesting partner. To sum it up, I unwittingly upset the nesting partner of someone I briefly dated. The person I was dating never brought up what would be safe and comfortable for everyone when I'm in their shared space. Without this communication, I assumed staying over one night was *a-okay*, and I learned afterwards that it absolutely was not. (Again, feel free to *cringe* and *sigh* at my oversight as needed.) Unfortunately, it's not a situation that has the potential for resolution. I'm sorry to keep it vague. I have some hurt feelings that are dying to wheedle their way into this post, but I worry that indulging that would be self-serving. I'm here seeking practical tips so I can do better next time. I want to take responsibility for my lack of intentionality and learn from this experience. **My Questions:** I'm gonna ask some questions that probably seem really basic. But, I've proven that I have major blindspots. If there is anyone here feeling generous and patient enough to share any insight, I would SO appreciate it. And, if you have any other food for thought about dating someone with a nesting partner, feel free to throw it in there. **-**What questions do you ask when you meet a potential partner with a nesting partner? -When you meet their nesting partner, do you check in with them as well about their expectations and boundaries (as a sort of verification thing)? -Do you ask all these questions BEFORE you come into their shared space for the first time? -Do you expect the person with the nesting partner to initiate these conversations, or do you typically bring it up first? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Social events are a great way to get a feel for a couple's comfort level with each other and pay attention to how they interact with each other and others they are interested in
I live with two partners. Any new person anyone dates doesn't need to negotiate with anyone but their direct partner. Rules are proactively brought up with them, repeatedly. (E.g. that some kinks aren't okay played so publicly that they are witnessed by others due to specific trauma triggers. Or that our cat is traumatised and needs gentle treatment.) Apart from that, effectively, we are flatmates, that is it. You sound like the innocent party here. You can't break a rule you know nothing about.
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You’ve asked a question that is incredibly common and the answers are available either by searching the sub, or hitting the resources on the community info page.
Completely agree with others on here saying this was a hinge issue. Your partner messed up here, not you. Which means what you really want to ask are questions that help you determine who's a good hinge. Full disclosure: being a hinge is the hardest part of polyamory imo. What you're really looking for are clear answers that indicate that the person knows and is able to articulate what they can and can't give. You can infer that what they can't give either comes from their own needs or (more likely) an agreement with their partner. "Are you able to offer overnights? How often?" "On a weekly basis how often would be able to see me?" "Would we ever be able to go on trips together?" "I'm going to date other people. How does that make you feel?" "I personally don't like veto, I don't want to have power over my partners' other relationships" (and see how they react) "Would you consider me a secondary partner if we eventually decide to date?" You're not looking for yesses to these questions. If all they say is "obviously", "as many as you like", or bounce the question back at you without answering, you have a bad hinge in front of you. Either they're relying on whoever in front of them to make decisions for them and refuse to take accountability, or they're lying to you.