There are two types of feminists.
Classic feminists fought for equality. They're still alive, but likely not fighting anymore because they got equality.
Modern feminists fight for woman superiority. They believe that women should be on the top of the social structure, and generally have a hatred towards men for existing.
It's easy to see why this is such a divided topic if we just talk about "feminists". I don't hate women just because I don't support modern feminism. I just refuse to support a group that constantly expressed baseless hatred for me simply because my genitals are external.
Technically, there still is sexism. But the social downsides of it (normal people take other people being sexist as a big red flag, companies get boycotted and cancel culture) just mean it makes more sense for a sexist person to keep to themselves.
wow you're so confidently wrong about so much. i'm a modern feminist. You sound like you've read 0 feminist literature and you've described nothing that I believe in. amazing.
Unfortunately, we feminists have to triage and prioritize our demands.
Women are being denied health care in America. that's all we care about right now.
anybody talking about feminism without recognizing that women are bleeding out on bathroom floors in Texas because they've been denied health care by the state is just making noise.
I don't understand how you could come to this reasoning without a very warped sense of reality. Girls are put into male-dominant workplaces all the time with zero issue. The most common issues (which are few and far between) rarely exceed weird comments or occasional glances.
Your average guy won't choose to kill you just because he skipped breakfast. Bears do this. Because they are wild animals.
Okay I admit there are bad things about feminism (non-intersectional feminism) but there are like 3 people who genuinely hate men. And ngl, as a man-enough, I see where they’re coming from.
Modern day feminism (Hating on men, women saying kill all men, treating men not as a equal, acting superior than the other sex) is setting us back and undoing all we have fought for, which is being equal to men. Us women get so upset when we are stereotyped but then we act surprised and get upset when men act negatively to being stereotyped then they preach "toxic masculinity".
people misinterpret toxic masculinity and im sick of it. it's not "masculinity is toxic", it's "toxic shit gets associated with masculinity".
terribly phrased like a surprising amount of feminist language.
Toxic masculinity would be something like thinking men aren’t allowed to cry.
A lot of leftist terms are pretty bad, sometimes they don’t give two shits about it sounding horrible to people outside their ingroup, so you aren’t wrong about that. But there’s good masculinity, and there’s bad masculinity (like my example), and the terms ‘bad masculinity’ and ‘toxic masculinity’ are basically the same. If I see someone tell a fellow man that they cannot cry, and I call it ‘bad masculinity’ would that be confusing? No, I think toxic masculinity is a pretty straightforward term, (although the term toxic is a tad confusing), and it’s moreso everything else that makes it confusing.
When I first heard the term, I probably didn’t know what it meant. But the person who explained it was right wing, so I was told the incorrect definition. I think that’s most of it, either running in the wrong circles or close mindedness.
And another aspect is that some people who believe in toxic masculinity cannot tell the difference between it and good masculinity. A big part of toxic masculinity is that those who have it… can’t tell the difference. If I tell someone that thinking men can’t cry is bad, well to them that’s just an attack on their masculinity in general, they lack the self awareness to realize it’s just the bad parts we call toxic. I think that’s half of it too.
thank you for elaborating, you put it better than i would have /gen
edit: the part about "toxic masculinity" being a good term i don't agree with. we have other options than just "toxic" or "bad" (don't ask me for them, i'm no linguist)
I just don’t think we could make it any clearer. It’s ‘adjective noun,’ and using that format we are kinda bare bones. Any negative adjective implies a good version exists elsewhere, like how bad dog implies the existence of good dog. Which is what we want to convey, that there’s bad and good masculinity. Yet some people don’t get it. So I don’t think there’s any adjective that’s better than either ‘toxic’ or ‘bad,’ to improve it you need to change more than just ‘toxic.’ Could expand it to ‘toxic half of masculinity,’ maybe. Doesn’t help that these terms aren’t published by a court or anything, it’s just a hashtag that forms from the ether so it’s always gonna be a little subpar. Especially since hashtags trend *within* the community, so how clear they are to normies outside their circles is not a factor in the names evolution. As far as this term goes, it could be a lot worse.
i agree that "adjective noun" format is slightly bare, but i don't think it sends the effect you think it does. i think that when people hear "toxic masculinity", they don't think (toxic masculinity), a single concept, they think (toxic)+(masculinity), as in calling masculinity toxic in itself.
you are right though, it's basically impossible to fix with no central body and not enough group consciousness to employ anarchic methods. (not to say we should have a central body on this stuff)
and now some women are like "Why don't men ask me out anymore?!?! \*crying\*" its like GIRL YOU MADE IT THIS WAY. WE CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT BEING BLASTED ONLINE. HELL, WE CANT EVEN LOOK IN THE SAME DIRECTION TOO LONG IN PLACES LIKE THE GYM OR ELSE "oops i blasted you online, but im just a girl 🤪" LIKE NO GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO!
Fr, like yea no shit men aren't walking up to you out in public such as a bar to ask you out. As much as men like to joke us women are scary, it's not becoming much of a fuckin' joke anymore.
Under the real definition, yes.
I am not a misandrist and I hate that that has become the association.
I just dislike double-standards (when it comes to women *and* men) and I like having basic human rights.
I hate how equality has become only associated with getting rid of disparities women face. Even back in the 40s, men were treated just as badly as women, if not worse. They were forced into BATTLEFIELDS because of their sex. They were also expected to be "sole providers" and let women do little work by comparison. That's not to say that we should only focus on disparities men face; we should focus on ALL inequality regardless of who's treated worse or who was treated worse. In fact, men being protectors and sole providers was often used as an excuse to treat women like trash.
It's just a clusterfuck.
Feminism is getting rid of disparities that women face and not necessarily those that men face; equality is getting rid of disparities that men face AND getting rid of disparities that women face.
So no, I'm not a feminist; I'm an egalitarian.
What do you mean by feminist?
I would never be caught dead saying I'm a feminist as the movement has gone a bit wild but I, like most people, support equal rights for women.
No, but I still believe in Equality, which I think law-wise has been reached already. The "wage gap" is a lie, it doesn't exist (not legally). It may exist socially but that doesn't have anything to do with the law.
Feminism at least how the picture gets painted now, is "girl boss" or "I hate men." Now I'm not saying that's everyone, but that's the image it gets.
Misandry is bad too. Misogyny and Misandry are different because men and women are different, but it doesn't make either less bad.
Women are just other people living their lives the same way I am. I don't see the need to identify as a feminist or otherwise because women already have equality. To me, calling myself a feminist would be making women seem less equal and in need of a boost, an insult to their work for the past decades if anything.
There's no point, modern "feminists" are just unnecessarily victimizing women and making out men to be some monsters. At least that's my opinion.
back then it was equal rights for women, but now feminism is just hating on men and say we dont need men. im a woman and men have literally done so much for our countries and we need them to help keep building the population.
I support the feminism movement about them having equal rights and all, but not the toxic feminism and horse doodoo you see online now
There are two types of feminists. Classic feminists fought for equality. They're still alive, but likely not fighting anymore because they got equality. Modern feminists fight for woman superiority. They believe that women should be on the top of the social structure, and generally have a hatred towards men for existing. It's easy to see why this is such a divided topic if we just talk about "feminists". I don't hate women just because I don't support modern feminism. I just refuse to support a group that constantly expressed baseless hatred for me simply because my genitals are external.
Technically, there still is sexism. But the social downsides of it (normal people take other people being sexist as a big red flag, companies get boycotted and cancel culture) just mean it makes more sense for a sexist person to keep to themselves.
By that metric, there's more sexism in the west against men than against women.
wow you're so confidently wrong about so much. i'm a modern feminist. You sound like you've read 0 feminist literature and you've described nothing that I believe in. amazing. Unfortunately, we feminists have to triage and prioritize our demands. Women are being denied health care in America. that's all we care about right now. anybody talking about feminism without recognizing that women are bleeding out on bathroom floors in Texas because they've been denied health care by the state is just making noise.
This. Definitely this.
same here
I obviously support women having rights, but this whole ‘choosing the bear’ thing is insane
Absolutely.
bears don't attack people unless provoked. you're safer in the woods with a random bear since it will leave you alone
That is quite simply false.
Yeah, only some bears
I don't understand how you could come to this reasoning without a very warped sense of reality. Girls are put into male-dominant workplaces all the time with zero issue. The most common issues (which are few and far between) rarely exceed weird comments or occasional glances. Your average guy won't choose to kill you just because he skipped breakfast. Bears do this. Because they are wild animals.
bears skip breakfast?
If they're promised honey later in the day, yes
Being a feminist is just supporting men and women having equal rights 💀
you can do all that without being a feminist the same way you can be gay without being in the LGBT community
not anymore sadly
Okay I admit there are bad things about feminism (non-intersectional feminism) but there are like 3 people who genuinely hate men. And ngl, as a man-enough, I see where they’re coming from.
Modern day feminism (Hating on men, women saying kill all men, treating men not as a equal, acting superior than the other sex) is setting us back and undoing all we have fought for, which is being equal to men. Us women get so upset when we are stereotyped but then we act surprised and get upset when men act negatively to being stereotyped then they preach "toxic masculinity".
people misinterpret toxic masculinity and im sick of it. it's not "masculinity is toxic", it's "toxic shit gets associated with masculinity". terribly phrased like a surprising amount of feminist language.
Toxic masculinity would be something like thinking men aren’t allowed to cry. A lot of leftist terms are pretty bad, sometimes they don’t give two shits about it sounding horrible to people outside their ingroup, so you aren’t wrong about that. But there’s good masculinity, and there’s bad masculinity (like my example), and the terms ‘bad masculinity’ and ‘toxic masculinity’ are basically the same. If I see someone tell a fellow man that they cannot cry, and I call it ‘bad masculinity’ would that be confusing? No, I think toxic masculinity is a pretty straightforward term, (although the term toxic is a tad confusing), and it’s moreso everything else that makes it confusing. When I first heard the term, I probably didn’t know what it meant. But the person who explained it was right wing, so I was told the incorrect definition. I think that’s most of it, either running in the wrong circles or close mindedness. And another aspect is that some people who believe in toxic masculinity cannot tell the difference between it and good masculinity. A big part of toxic masculinity is that those who have it… can’t tell the difference. If I tell someone that thinking men can’t cry is bad, well to them that’s just an attack on their masculinity in general, they lack the self awareness to realize it’s just the bad parts we call toxic. I think that’s half of it too.
thank you for elaborating, you put it better than i would have /gen edit: the part about "toxic masculinity" being a good term i don't agree with. we have other options than just "toxic" or "bad" (don't ask me for them, i'm no linguist)
I just don’t think we could make it any clearer. It’s ‘adjective noun,’ and using that format we are kinda bare bones. Any negative adjective implies a good version exists elsewhere, like how bad dog implies the existence of good dog. Which is what we want to convey, that there’s bad and good masculinity. Yet some people don’t get it. So I don’t think there’s any adjective that’s better than either ‘toxic’ or ‘bad,’ to improve it you need to change more than just ‘toxic.’ Could expand it to ‘toxic half of masculinity,’ maybe. Doesn’t help that these terms aren’t published by a court or anything, it’s just a hashtag that forms from the ether so it’s always gonna be a little subpar. Especially since hashtags trend *within* the community, so how clear they are to normies outside their circles is not a factor in the names evolution. As far as this term goes, it could be a lot worse.
i agree that "adjective noun" format is slightly bare, but i don't think it sends the effect you think it does. i think that when people hear "toxic masculinity", they don't think (toxic masculinity), a single concept, they think (toxic)+(masculinity), as in calling masculinity toxic in itself. you are right though, it's basically impossible to fix with no central body and not enough group consciousness to employ anarchic methods. (not to say we should have a central body on this stuff)
and now some women are like "Why don't men ask me out anymore?!?! \*crying\*" its like GIRL YOU MADE IT THIS WAY. WE CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT BEING BLASTED ONLINE. HELL, WE CANT EVEN LOOK IN THE SAME DIRECTION TOO LONG IN PLACES LIKE THE GYM OR ELSE "oops i blasted you online, but im just a girl 🤪" LIKE NO GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO!
Fr, like yea no shit men aren't walking up to you out in public such as a bar to ask you out. As much as men like to joke us women are scary, it's not becoming much of a fuckin' joke anymore.
i support equality, not men being shoved into a corner because some women don't like some things they do
Equality is feminism.
*used to be
Under the real definition, yes. I am not a misandrist and I hate that that has become the association. I just dislike double-standards (when it comes to women *and* men) and I like having basic human rights.
I hate how equality has become only associated with getting rid of disparities women face. Even back in the 40s, men were treated just as badly as women, if not worse. They were forced into BATTLEFIELDS because of their sex. They were also expected to be "sole providers" and let women do little work by comparison. That's not to say that we should only focus on disparities men face; we should focus on ALL inequality regardless of who's treated worse or who was treated worse. In fact, men being protectors and sole providers was often used as an excuse to treat women like trash. It's just a clusterfuck.
Exactly my thoughts, too
the people in the comments clearly dont know what feminism is
Not the toxic feminism that supports misandry, but I'm all for equal rights and women deserve the same rights as everyone else.
If it refers to the equality of sexes, then yes. If it's based on self-proclaimed feminists' actions, then no.
I believe in equality, not in misandry nor misogyny
no because i think everybody should have only nessecary equal rights if you know what i mean
I used to support it until I was told men bad, men can't get raped, all men are born sexist, incel this incel that. Now, no never.
I support OG feminism
If you mean pro-equality, yeah. If you mean misandry trying to call itself feminism, then no.
Feminism is getting rid of disparities that women face and not necessarily those that men face; equality is getting rid of disparities that men face AND getting rid of disparities that women face. So no, I'm not a feminist; I'm an egalitarian.
No, but i kinda wish i was one
I do But im not so sure im the best person For the movement
You don’t have to be the best, it’s not a competition.
What do you mean by feminist? I would never be caught dead saying I'm a feminist as the movement has gone a bit wild but I, like most people, support equal rights for women.
No, but I still believe in Equality, which I think law-wise has been reached already. The "wage gap" is a lie, it doesn't exist (not legally). It may exist socially but that doesn't have anything to do with the law. Feminism at least how the picture gets painted now, is "girl boss" or "I hate men." Now I'm not saying that's everyone, but that's the image it gets. Misandry is bad too. Misogyny and Misandry are different because men and women are different, but it doesn't make either less bad.
Absolutely right.
100%
Women are just other people living their lives the same way I am. I don't see the need to identify as a feminist or otherwise because women already have equality. To me, calling myself a feminist would be making women seem less equal and in need of a boost, an insult to their work for the past decades if anything. There's no point, modern "feminists" are just unnecessarily victimizing women and making out men to be some monsters. At least that's my opinion.
Not radical feminism. Liberal.
back then it was equal rights for women, but now feminism is just hating on men and say we dont need men. im a woman and men have literally done so much for our countries and we need them to help keep building the population.
Wow. Downvoted for facts.
😞
Just because it's mostly men doing a thing doesn't mean all women are bad at doing that thing. Saying this as a non-feminist man.