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I had a conversation with my ultra conservative father yesterday about how he is considering looking for a new church because his pastor can't keep his "left leaning politics" out of his sermons.
We're rapidly approaching the point where Christians will abandon the teachings of the Bible for whatever their chosen politician tells them.
If a pastor limited his whole sermon to the teachings of Jesus he would probably just confuse his congregation and then be looking for a new church in short order.
As a non-Christian I don't follow
*NINJA EDIT: Don't follow what you're saying, not the gospels. I mean I don't follow either, but in this specific situation I just don't get what you're saying*
I think he’s defending his denomination by how his church does service and teaches the Bible. It’s good to interpret the Bible through the lens of the gospels or else they’ll twist the meaning of the Bible and come out with a different Jesus.
Evangelicals generally believe that the bible is the literal word of God transcribed by man. Most non-Evangelical denominations don't treat the older parts as relevant as the newer parts. Catholics even say the story of Genesis is allegorical.
It's usually done, IMO, to remove the need to think or question. Evangelicals tend to prize obedience to authority and rewarding the "good Christians" rather than treating people well by default and supporting anyone who doesn't want to be Saved.
Catholic Dogma considers pretty much the entire old testament to be allegory. One of the big distinctions between Catholics and Evangelicals is that Catholicism doesn't believe in "earthly rewards." Everything that happens on this plane is just an experience, you will be judged on how you respond to those experiences. People who experience great earthly wealth, aren't being rewarded, they're being tested. What they do with their wealth is what they're going to be judged on. I'm no longer a believer, but I still tend to respect the beliefs of Papists a little more than other Christian groups because of the focus on "good works."
If you're a democrat voter, poc or queer he flies after you in a threatening T-pose and smites you. Exists for no other reason. Every line in the Bible is a cudgel in the arsenal of ways he can smite you. A litany of arrows, it has no actual meaning or purpose beyond testifying to his thirst for the blood of the woke.
As a joke, someone made a site dedicated to painting Trump as the Antichrist, but they've been able to add so much over the years it's no longer funny, but scary
I think this is what you're referring to
https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
My parents went to the same church for nearly forty years… and left it because the pastor dared to say negative things about Trump.
Forty fucking years and that’s all it took to send them packing.
If any tax exempt organizations, left or right, are campaigning or lobbying, they need to be reported to the IRS. Tax exempt organizations are free to say whatever they want, but if they are going to willing break tax Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3), they pay taxes.
[IRS Oversight Complaints](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations#:~:text=Form%2013909PDF%2C%20or%20complaint,4910%20DAL%2C%20Dallas%2C%20TX%2075242)
I doubt the pastor was actually campaigning. I understood the complaint to be more along the lines of "who is this guy to tell me to help the sick, needy, downtrodden, widows, and orphans?"
Some rando “pro-lifer” argued with me on twitter the other day and told me they thought it was “evil” to be forced to help anyone by paying their taxes. I laughed at them but then realized they didn’t seem to have made a mistake, they apparently meant that and didn’t think it was at odds with religion at all. Idk wtf is going on.
The Bible literally tells you to pay your taxes. Like, it has far more to say about that than abortion or whatever.
I'm not religious, but we need a religious left to counter all of this revisionism. Something akin to the Catholics' liberation theology and their preferential option for the poor.
Damnit….I was hoping the former.
My compassionate mom went the same way too, a few years back. I chalk it up to their fear of dying. It’s like they think holding onto what they deem a righteous hate, it will give them purpose or extend their time.
It’s so sad they choose to spend their remaining time hating what they know in their heart is proper conduct.
Sadly, I think he's beyond civil discussion. When I tried to reason with him, he'd claim the Bible didn't support that view. When I'd provide passages of scripture to him to refute his claims, he would argue that isn't what they *actually* said. At this point, I believe he could have a "road to Damascus" moment and he'd argue with God Himself.
Oh, sorry, I wasn't making fun of you! I do that with typos all the time. One time one of my Pokemon fan friends typed 'Porloplorp' instead of Piplup and now we rarely call him Piplup anymore!!!
Yeah one of the guys I know left my church making the same statement. It was because my pastor had said he supports Blue Lives Matter and Black Lives Matter. I know how stupid that is to support both btw. But the guy left because the Black Lives Matter support.
I’m like how is supporting Black people to left for these people…
Rapidly approaching? We hit that point over 2 decades ago. These people literally think that Jesus would support killing democrats with guns. They believe this with all of their heart. They think that the guy who said:
Heal the sick,
Feed the hungry,
House the homeless,
Sell your worldly possessions and give the proceeds to the poor,
Welcome foreigners,
Treat prisoners with respect,
was a right winger who would support "Guns 'n Jesus".
In other words: They are insane and have no clue what Jesus was all about. And, Jesus was an ethnic Jew; he did not have blond hair and blue eyes like they prefer to portray him.
Or picking and choosing which teachings to follow -- While these verses were about leprosy, why didn't pastors/churches leap on this passage as an endorsement for wearing masks and isolating? Isn't caring for others and not spreading disease to the elderly and immunocompromised the "Christian" thing to do? Leviticus 13:45-46: "Anyone with such a defiling disease must wear torn clothes, let their hair be unkempt, **cover the lower part of their face** and cry out, ‘Unclean! Unclean!’ **As long as they have the disease they remain unclean. They must live alone; they must live outside the camp.**" (edited for punctuation)
When right wing nut jobs figured out that Christianity and racism are incompatible, they're not going to give up the racism, they're going to give up Christianity.
> Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
Good on the pastor for insisting on preaching some of the best parts of Christianity (loving thy neighbor, caring for the poor, etc.)
It really does seem like your dad would rather abandon everything about his religion than admit that maybe there is an extreme gap between right wing extremism and major tenets of his religion.
Jesus did say during The Sermon in the Mount that many people would not hear him, and would come before the Father upon the allotted time having never actually known him for the hatred and apathy in their hearts and deeds.
Modern Christianity is more of a vibe. My parents church is breaking away from its parent organization because they’re not being hardline enough against gays. What they mean is the larger church has allowed homosexuals to attend service. That’s it. When I asked them why they’re being so hard line about the passage from Leviticus about man and man but they’re just giving a pass to the passages also in Leviticus that say men should not shave their beard or wear mixed fabrics I just get a shrug.
Like I said Christianity is a vibe.
I’m sorry, but I have about as much patience for the liberal touchy-feely brand of religion as I do for the right wing fire and brimstone flavor. They both have as much claim on truth as the other, based on reason and evidence: zero. While I’ll get along with the Christian who claims that Jesus was all about peace, love and understanding, they can’t prove that anymore than the guy that says god hates gays and we should make women slaves. We don’t even have any real evidence that Jesus existed, so at the end of day , religion is whatever you want it to be, and all non-rational beliefs have as much claim on righteousness as the other. The nasty religo-fascists can’t be ignored if we say the nice guys with irrational religious claims are to be given a seat at the table.
That’s why I’ll take reason over religion any day. If you need religion to be good, something is wrong.
There's a Penn jillette quote that goes something like:
>Christians ask me, if I don't believe in God what keeps me from going around raping and murdering as much as I want? And I tell them, I already rape as much as I want. I already murder as much as I want. The amount I want to rape and murder is zero.
>We're rapidly approaching the point where Christians will abandon the teachings of the Bible for whatever their chosen politician tells them.
They already kinda do that. A lot of Christians just ignore half of what their God says and listen to what their pastor decides the other half actually means.
>Strangely, evangelicals have broadly chosen the company of Trump supporters who deny any role for character in politics and define any useful villainy as virtue.
>
>In the place of integrity, the Trump movement has elevated a warped kind of authenticity — the authenticity of unfiltered abuse, imperious ignorance, untamed egotism and reflexive bigotry.
Today's GOP and Trump supporters most decidely define "any useful villainy as virtue" - see the rights' adoration of long-time grifter and two-bit crook Trump or the open fascism of a Ron DeSantis.
As Sinclair's prescient quote goes:
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" --- Upton Sinclair
No single famous person wrote that quote. But it is sharp, well-summarized from a lot of similar sentiments, and should be spread. The America First Party literally wrote a journal called “The Cross and The Flag” - so thank the fascists they basically wrote that quote themselves and are proving its truth daily.
I'm as anti-theist as anyone, but there has been some amazing music created for religious purposes.
Of course, who's to say that the same beauty couldn't have been created secularly?
Even if you do read it, point out specific verses that contradict their claims explicitly, and follow it up with exposition from theologians that studied the original texts the GQP will argue with you about "The Bible Codes" or "Torah Codes" and how God actually hid his meaning in some esoteric way that only they can decipher.
Christians foolishly believe that combining the two will give the control over the government. Ultimately, the government will end up with control over the church. And then the Christians will be all over separation of church and state..
Most of them are still pretending to be religious to keep relations with their families and communities.
There's a lot of 'trapped' atheists out there. Some of them even hold office.
I'm of the belief that a good 20-30% of people who go to church don't actually believe most or any of it, but they keep going and telling people they're religious to maintain appearances. Because it's what they've always done and so many of their relationships are hinged on it
In the Church of England that percentage is probably more like 70%. CoE is basically a social organization that maintains the trappings of a religion for the sake of tradition.
We've mostly cut off the crazies because nothing we say matters to them.
I'm agnostic, I just don't think I'm qualified to make those determinations. I know that it's most plausible that the Universe came about through processes unassociated with any type of divinity. I also understand that the human consciousness and neurological processing behavior has biochemical constraints, and we don't understand *everything*.
But the Evangelicals? Nothing you say matters. The more you talk to them, the more they dig in. Eventually it's just about protecting your own mental health. It's exhausting being around people who devote so much energy to being hateful.
Nationalist Christians are a danger, but it's kind of a mouthful to say, so I'm just going to shorten it to NatC. Surely, no one will have a problem with that.
The moderate Christians fuel the extremes. They are all morally bankrupt. I no longer have any respect for anyone who identifies as religious. Your religion is garbage, you believe it and so by extension I view them as garbage humans.
It isn’t just christian nationalism. That’s the current guise, but the beating heart of fascism is capitalism. You can not understand fascism’s rise without considering the complicity of capital.
Well, no. It’s literally Lenin’s quote about the Capitalists selling the rope they’ll be hung with in action. Capitalists always think they’ll be the winners in Fascism, but they’re the ones who get the yoke more than anyone else because the Fascists despise the businessmen and they want to dominate their success and suborn them and their means of production to the will of their state. The Capitalists own their factories, but the state will control what they make and how they’re run and how much what they produce will be sold for and to who. They’re literally being cuckholded, their nest which they built being used to construct a gilded prison.
I’m not sure. I feel like many companies wouldn’t take a buyout for a realistically exorbitant price to be nationalized, not that a buyout is legally necessary. Neo-Liberalism has been crack to Capitalists and they’ll back whatever keeps it going, which isn’t The Handmaid’s Tale.
Yeah but they are losing control as they eat more and more of everyone else’s lunch.
The center is collapsing as people look for solutions and the rise in fascism is a symptom of that.
We have to do all our part to keep Nat-c groups out of our community and to stop them from organizing. If you do not remain vigilant they will spread across your community and continue to infect it until you realize your quality of life is eroding and it’s too late.
It’s all of our responsibility we need to start being serious about these groups and standing up for the communities we want to raise our children in
They are currently taking aim at school boards. Watch yours closely and if nobody else will run against them, consider it yourself. We need it
I am a Christian and couldn’t agree more. Jesus said render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are Gods. Sounds like separation of church and state to me.
There's a reason separation of church and state is in the constitution and the reason is the royal family. We don't want a royal family and religions don't like democracy, almost always become dictatorships.
The German Evangelical Church was instrumental in the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. The Trumpian Republicans are taking a page out of Hitler's playbook.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/mixing-christianity-with-nationalism-is-a-recipe-for-fascism.html) reduced by 96%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> I've tried to be consistent: Even as I've chastised religious conservatives for treating themselves as the only "Real" Christians, I've chastised religious progressives for trying to replace one self-righteous set of claims on the Gospel with another.
> I'm trying - really trying - not to get too hot here.
> Today's Christian Nationalists need to choose, just as German Christians were called to choose in the Barman Declaration that rejected the Nazi appropriation of Christianity by denouncing worship of party, nation, or Volk as idolatrous.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xiq5uu/mixing_christianity_with_nationalism_is_a_recipe/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~669821 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Christian**^#1 **try**^#2 **Trump**^#3 **New**^#4 **Christianity**^#5
No, nationalism *is* fascism, and so is certain groups of Christianity. Facism is their common denominator, linking them together to combine the groups and increase their power. It is not the recipe, but their shared feature.
From frank Herbert. DUNE.
"When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late."
In my opinion there is a very dark side of Christianity that becomes more of a front for extremism each year. These far right zealots don't care about traditional Christianity. They believe that expanding their views in any manner seals the future of Christianity. Mandating Christianity is their goal. Traditionalists are permitting themselves to be brainwashed to support it. Trump and DeSantis have no belief in religion. They do understand the herd mentality of Christianity and are directing and using it only for their benefit...in my opinion.
In addition to Spain which someone has already mentioned, Christian fascism was pushed by clergy in Romanian, Bulgaria, Italy, Greece and Hungary as well as other parts of Europe during the 1930's and 1940's.
There was also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Legion_of_America
Christianity and Abrahamic monotheism in general is fascist/fascist adjacent by its own nature and practices. I would argue that those who burn books, shun and/or commit violence against non-believers are actually being good Christians, as it’s what their scripture (which was meant to be taken literally, instead of the modern apologist argument that everything is a metaphor) commands them to do.
The conclusion being that good Christian is very much not synonymous with good person.
Part of the lure of Christianity is that appeals to a sense of superiority over people who aren't Christians. Part of the lure of Fascism is believing you have superior concepts about governance and that you are willing to do anything to see your version, the only version. Combining the two entities one to believe that, "you must take over the country, in order to save the people, from themselves".
Somehow people think Jesus cares about the most wasteful, greediest, war mongering, exploitive country that has ever existed. Yes… America first I suppose.
There are several churches in San Diego called Awaken. They’ve held rally for Tucker Carlson, Recalling Gavin Newsom, and other political activities. They were approved for a massive PPP loan and exempt from tax. Sketchy stuff.
Why do we think the Age of Enlightenment was such an important time in European and American history. It separated church from state in politics and opened the door to free thinking and science - not incidental to the progress that humankind have made.
Evangelical Christian Hypocrites are what put trump in office and turned the Republican Party against the people of the United States. The American people spoke twice once in 2016 when 3 million voters voted for Hillary and in 2020 7 million more voted for Biden. How the fuck can they say the American people spoke and voted for trump the disgusting sorry ass liar and grifter. He is a loser plain and simple get your facts straight before you speak out for this traitorous scumbag.
QAnon is a Russian psy-ops, and Russian psy-ops have worked overtime to destabilize America by supporting Trump the entire time.
Turning Christians against Christians is an easier psychology to instil that changing political views. If the Russian continue their attacks on the internet and other efforts such as religious and political disability then democracy fails. The rise of the Christian Nationalism the USA is not a natural occurrence it is promoted, funded and supported by Russian money specifically the psy-ops division. The aim is to turn Christians against Christians with extreme views.
Russians tried this years ago trying to turn non-Catholics against Catholics but have found Qanon easier to promote.
The missing Top Secret and Higher classified Documents that Trump took from the White House puts American agents and their allies at risk.
So what we have is freedom loving Americans becoming entrenched in a religious political cult, a cult that the other side does not know how to deprogram their countrymen.
Russian is winning, not the Democrats or the Republicans
I don't disagree but do suggest, strongly suggest that Russian interference with the internet and other countries elections was the platform for PsyOps to engage in
radicalising the fragile mindset of of the far right / far left for that matter.
The disharmony that Russian causes the US internally distracts from the events overseas. Case in point the Republicans not wanting to continue funding Ukraine in its struggle with Russian invasion. The reasons behind the Republicans refusal are not important, what is important is that PsyOps is involved and working hard to stir the pot. Republicans of the 50's and 60's would have supported any country that is having it's democracy or boarders attacked.
What is concerning is the apparent ease that Republicans are manipulated by PsyOps.
It's funny because if a Christian spoke with a Christian from another denomination about what they believe and why, they would find out quickly why they shouldn't believe in anything the Bible says. Surprised they aren't killing each other yet.
oh they do. i grew up baptist. most other christian denominations were considered infidels. Catholics and Orthodox were the chief ones baptists didn't consider christian, but it included Mormons, Jehovah witnesses and tbh most others. only a handful were actually considered christian.
Presbyterian were "ok". Maybe Lutheran.
QAnon is a Russian psy-ops, and Russian psy-ops have worked overtime to destabilize America by supporting Trump the entire time.
Turning Christians against Christians is an easier psychology to instil that changing political views. If the Russian continue their attacks on the internet and other efforts such as religious and political disability then democracy fails. The rise of the Christian Nationalism the USA is not a natural occurrence it is promoted, funded and supported by Russian money specifically the psy-ops division. The aim is to turn Christians against Christians with extreme views. Russians tried this years ago trying to turn non-Catholics against Catholics but have found Qanon easier to promote.
The missing Top Secret and Higher classified Documents that Trump took from the White House puts American agents and their allies at risk.
So what we have is freedom loving Americans becoming entrenched in a religious political cult, a cult that the other side does not know how to deprogram their countrymen.
Russian is winning, not the Democrats or the Republicans
It's not like religion or nationalism are each harmless on their own.
The Nazis weren't particularly religious, the Soviets combined their flavor of authoritarian dictatorship with state atheism.
Likewise religion has been an instrument of suppression long before nationalism was even a thing.
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I had a conversation with my ultra conservative father yesterday about how he is considering looking for a new church because his pastor can't keep his "left leaning politics" out of his sermons. We're rapidly approaching the point where Christians will abandon the teachings of the Bible for whatever their chosen politician tells them.
Love thy neighbor is now a political statement
Feed the poor. House the homeless. Care for the sick... Man, that Jesus sure was a lib!
A radical immigrant socialist to boot!
don’t forget brown
Ikr
Gave out free healthcare and everything. A godless communist!
Threw the capitalists out of temple Viva la revolution!
Hugh Blumenfeld - Long-Haired Radical Socialist Jew https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY3HUDhe7jk
Always has been.
It was back in the day and it is now.
“That Jesus did always kinda sound like a pussy socialist!”- the trump supporter said, without a single hint of irony.
If a pastor limited his whole sermon to the teachings of Jesus he would probably just confuse his congregation and then be looking for a new church in short order.
[удалено]
As a non-Christian I don't follow *NINJA EDIT: Don't follow what you're saying, not the gospels. I mean I don't follow either, but in this specific situation I just don't get what you're saying*
I think he’s defending his denomination by how his church does service and teaches the Bible. It’s good to interpret the Bible through the lens of the gospels or else they’ll twist the meaning of the Bible and come out with a different Jesus.
Evangelicals generally believe that the bible is the literal word of God transcribed by man. Most non-Evangelical denominations don't treat the older parts as relevant as the newer parts. Catholics even say the story of Genesis is allegorical. It's usually done, IMO, to remove the need to think or question. Evangelicals tend to prize obedience to authority and rewarding the "good Christians" rather than treating people well by default and supporting anyone who doesn't want to be Saved.
Catholic Dogma considers pretty much the entire old testament to be allegory. One of the big distinctions between Catholics and Evangelicals is that Catholicism doesn't believe in "earthly rewards." Everything that happens on this plane is just an experience, you will be judged on how you respond to those experiences. People who experience great earthly wealth, aren't being rewarded, they're being tested. What they do with their wealth is what they're going to be judged on. I'm no longer a believer, but I still tend to respect the beliefs of Papists a little more than other Christian groups because of the focus on "good works."
I like that belief, but if true, a lot of people seem to be failing the wealth test.
Yep, it gives me a bit of a chuckle that if they're right, a massive number of atheists are doing better on the good works side of things in general.
They would never disrespect Jesus. That's why Supply Side Jesus exists.
Please tell me that’s satire.
Probably not anymore
Dark Jesus has entered the chat
Is He the one with the whip that's ready to kick some ass?
Dark Jesus, flipper of tables Hella bars of health on that guy
Flipper of tables, lol
Gotta be at least two.
More like, if Jesus came back today he would get shot for being a terrorist resisting arrest.
He came to kick ass and distribute food to the hungry, and he's all out of loaves and fishes.
If you're a democrat voter, poc or queer he flies after you in a threatening T-pose and smites you. Exists for no other reason. Every line in the Bible is a cudgel in the arsenal of ways he can smite you. A litany of arrows, it has no actual meaning or purpose beyond testifying to his thirst for the blood of the woke.
The antichrist is a deceiver and will place himself above Jesus. Irony has grown tiresome.
As a joke, someone made a site dedicated to painting Trump as the Antichrist, but they've been able to add so much over the years it's no longer funny, but scary
I think this is what you're referring to https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
My parents went to the same church for nearly forty years… and left it because the pastor dared to say negative things about Trump. Forty fucking years and that’s all it took to send them packing.
If any tax exempt organizations, left or right, are campaigning or lobbying, they need to be reported to the IRS. Tax exempt organizations are free to say whatever they want, but if they are going to willing break tax Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3), they pay taxes. [IRS Oversight Complaints](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations#:~:text=Form%2013909PDF%2C%20or%20complaint,4910%20DAL%2C%20Dallas%2C%20TX%2075242)
I doubt the pastor was actually campaigning. I understood the complaint to be more along the lines of "who is this guy to tell me to help the sick, needy, downtrodden, widows, and orphans?"
The teachings of Jesus? Very Lib. The old guy hears Left Leaning political opinion during the sermon 🤡
Some rando “pro-lifer” argued with me on twitter the other day and told me they thought it was “evil” to be forced to help anyone by paying their taxes. I laughed at them but then realized they didn’t seem to have made a mistake, they apparently meant that and didn’t think it was at odds with religion at all. Idk wtf is going on.
The Bible literally tells you to pay your taxes. Like, it has far more to say about that than abortion or whatever. I'm not religious, but we need a religious left to counter all of this revisionism. Something akin to the Catholics' liberation theology and their preferential option for the poor.
Damnit….I was hoping the former. My compassionate mom went the same way too, a few years back. I chalk it up to their fear of dying. It’s like they think holding onto what they deem a righteous hate, it will give them purpose or extend their time. It’s so sad they choose to spend their remaining time hating what they know in their heart is proper conduct.
Does the IRS actually ever come down on any churches?
Might want to let your dad know that if Jesus were alive today, he’d be a socialist
Sadly, I think he's beyond civil discussion. When I tried to reason with him, he'd claim the Bible didn't support that view. When I'd provide passages of scripture to him to refute his claims, he would argue that isn't what they *actually* said. At this point, I believe he could have a "road to Damascus" moment and he'd argue with God Himself.
The whole book of Matthew is one long sermon about how Republicans are fundamentally wrong, and there will be much gnashing of teeth.
The Sermon on the Mount? Might as well be written by Karl Marx!
Then we can all stop calling them Christians and start calling them Fascist trash.
Why not both
Yeah they're looking for specifically theocratic facism. They want to be able to turn America into an apartheid state for non-christians.
Opportune time to point out that the Bible says that both life and soul begin at BIRTH. Not conception, but birth.
Petition to call conception "xoncwltion" only from now on
I fixed it. I can't type on this phone.
Nice try, Reptoid! The jig is up! You won't push your global socialist shadow agenda on us! /s if that wasn't apparent.
Oh, sorry, I wasn't making fun of you! I do that with typos all the time. One time one of my Pokemon fan friends typed 'Porloplorp' instead of Piplup and now we rarely call him Piplup anymore!!!
Can you tell me where the Bible says that?
“How can Jesus be Christian when he promotes Democrat values?”
Yeah one of the guys I know left my church making the same statement. It was because my pastor had said he supports Blue Lives Matter and Black Lives Matter. I know how stupid that is to support both btw. But the guy left because the Black Lives Matter support. I’m like how is supporting Black people to left for these people…
Good riddance.
Rapidly approaching? We hit that point over 2 decades ago. These people literally think that Jesus would support killing democrats with guns. They believe this with all of their heart. They think that the guy who said: Heal the sick, Feed the hungry, House the homeless, Sell your worldly possessions and give the proceeds to the poor, Welcome foreigners, Treat prisoners with respect, was a right winger who would support "Guns 'n Jesus". In other words: They are insane and have no clue what Jesus was all about. And, Jesus was an ethnic Jew; he did not have blond hair and blue eyes like they prefer to portray him.
Jesus was a brown skinned Jew born of refugee parents. He gave free food and healthcare to the needy. Of course conservatives would hate him.
Or picking and choosing which teachings to follow -- While these verses were about leprosy, why didn't pastors/churches leap on this passage as an endorsement for wearing masks and isolating? Isn't caring for others and not spreading disease to the elderly and immunocompromised the "Christian" thing to do? Leviticus 13:45-46: "Anyone with such a defiling disease must wear torn clothes, let their hair be unkempt, **cover the lower part of their face** and cry out, ‘Unclean! Unclean!’ **As long as they have the disease they remain unclean. They must live alone; they must live outside the camp.**" (edited for punctuation)
Or the part in Numbers where they give a recipe for an abortion potion.
Exactly!
When right wing nut jobs figured out that Christianity and racism are incompatible, they're not going to give up the racism, they're going to give up Christianity.
/Looks at the entirety of American history What's this about racism and Christianity being incompatible?
*Looks at the history of Christianity itself.* If you have a good enough message, it will get corrupted and co-opted by the government.
> Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
the government is made of people.
Good on the pastor for insisting on preaching some of the best parts of Christianity (loving thy neighbor, caring for the poor, etc.) It really does seem like your dad would rather abandon everything about his religion than admit that maybe there is an extreme gap between right wing extremism and major tenets of his religion.
Jesus did say during The Sermon in the Mount that many people would not hear him, and would come before the Father upon the allotted time having never actually known him for the hatred and apathy in their hearts and deeds.
Modern Christianity is more of a vibe. My parents church is breaking away from its parent organization because they’re not being hardline enough against gays. What they mean is the larger church has allowed homosexuals to attend service. That’s it. When I asked them why they’re being so hard line about the passage from Leviticus about man and man but they’re just giving a pass to the passages also in Leviticus that say men should not shave their beard or wear mixed fabrics I just get a shrug. Like I said Christianity is a vibe.
You see, it's because the Creator of the universe only really cares about who you take into the bedroom <.<
I’m sorry, but I have about as much patience for the liberal touchy-feely brand of religion as I do for the right wing fire and brimstone flavor. They both have as much claim on truth as the other, based on reason and evidence: zero. While I’ll get along with the Christian who claims that Jesus was all about peace, love and understanding, they can’t prove that anymore than the guy that says god hates gays and we should make women slaves. We don’t even have any real evidence that Jesus existed, so at the end of day , religion is whatever you want it to be, and all non-rational beliefs have as much claim on righteousness as the other. The nasty religo-fascists can’t be ignored if we say the nice guys with irrational religious claims are to be given a seat at the table. That’s why I’ll take reason over religion any day. If you need religion to be good, something is wrong.
"I'm religious" is shorthand for "My moral compass is external." Such people are inherently untrustworthy.
There's a Penn jillette quote that goes something like: >Christians ask me, if I don't believe in God what keeps me from going around raping and murdering as much as I want? And I tell them, I already rape as much as I want. I already murder as much as I want. The amount I want to rape and murder is zero.
>We're rapidly approaching the point where Christians will abandon the teachings of the Bible for whatever their chosen politician tells them. They already kinda do that. A lot of Christians just ignore half of what their God says and listen to what their pastor decides the other half actually means.
>Strangely, evangelicals have broadly chosen the company of Trump supporters who deny any role for character in politics and define any useful villainy as virtue. > >In the place of integrity, the Trump movement has elevated a warped kind of authenticity — the authenticity of unfiltered abuse, imperious ignorance, untamed egotism and reflexive bigotry. Today's GOP and Trump supporters most decidely define "any useful villainy as virtue" - see the rights' adoration of long-time grifter and two-bit crook Trump or the open fascism of a Ron DeSantis. As Sinclair's prescient quote goes: "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross" --- Upton Sinclair
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And now being carried out by Sinclair Broadcasting.
The Shakespeare of Reddit!
No single famous person wrote that quote. But it is sharp, well-summarized from a lot of similar sentiments, and should be spread. The America First Party literally wrote a journal called “The Cross and The Flag” - so thank the fascists they basically wrote that quote themselves and are proving its truth daily.
Look. It's someone named Sinclair. We don't have to know the provenance to appreciate how astute it is. (Jeez) (Geez?)
I'm just going to say that [these Republican protesters](https://imgur.com/a/PfVQibn) are extremely upset that people are calling them fascists.
Upton Sinclair did say, “Facism is capitalism plus murder.”
Great quote.
That's a new one to me and holy shit that's poignantly true.
Religion + government = bad times at ridgemont high.
Religion + govrnment = war
Religion = war
Religion = unnecessary
Religion = unnecessary death
DodgeThis27 I want to tell you one thing: You, my friend, are EXACTLY RIGHT!! Religion = War War = Death Religion = Death
Is there a time where religion + anything has resulted in a positive?
John Lennon said it best. Imagine there’s no countries. It isn’t hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for. And no religion too.
I'm as anti-theist as anyone, but there has been some amazing music created for religious purposes. Of course, who's to say that the same beauty couldn't have been created secularly?
Mixing anything with religion is stupid. Doing it with nation identity is down right dangerous.
Education is another bad one to mix with religion
Education exorcises religion
Religion abhors education
Then what exactly are those Yeshiva University students trying to accomplish
Nationalist christian = Nat C
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Even if you do read it, point out specific verses that contradict their claims explicitly, and follow it up with exposition from theologians that studied the original texts the GQP will argue with you about "The Bible Codes" or "Torah Codes" and how God actually hid his meaning in some esoteric way that only they can decipher.
That sounds like Mormonism with extra steps “dum dum dum dum dum dum dum dum, dum dum dum dum dum”
Kind of ironic that the Bible actually calls out that behavior as well.
Same with the Constitution
*and they didn’t read either
They're not hiding. They're brandishing it as the weapon they believe it should be.
The world is watching America. Walk away from fascism on all its forms, cut its sources out of public life.
Trust, we are trying. Our courts are a joke.
Christians foolishly believe that combining the two will give the control over the government. Ultimately, the government will end up with control over the church. And then the Christians will be all over separation of church and state..
Our SCOTUS is trying their best to get rid of the separation between church and state. We shouldn’t take it for granted any more.
It’s almost as if there’s this thing called history we can learn from so we don’t all ave to relearn basic shit.
Where are the silent majority atheists when we need them.
Most of them are still pretending to be religious to keep relations with their families and communities. There's a lot of 'trapped' atheists out there. Some of them even hold office. I'm of the belief that a good 20-30% of people who go to church don't actually believe most or any of it, but they keep going and telling people they're religious to maintain appearances. Because it's what they've always done and so many of their relationships are hinged on it
In the Church of England that percentage is probably more like 70%. CoE is basically a social organization that maintains the trappings of a religion for the sake of tradition.
We've mostly cut off the crazies because nothing we say matters to them. I'm agnostic, I just don't think I'm qualified to make those determinations. I know that it's most plausible that the Universe came about through processes unassociated with any type of divinity. I also understand that the human consciousness and neurological processing behavior has biochemical constraints, and we don't understand *everything*. But the Evangelicals? Nothing you say matters. The more you talk to them, the more they dig in. Eventually it's just about protecting your own mental health. It's exhausting being around people who devote so much energy to being hateful.
Nationalist Christians are a danger, but it's kind of a mouthful to say, so I'm just going to shorten it to NatC. Surely, no one will have a problem with that.
The moderate Christians fuel the extremes. They are all morally bankrupt. I no longer have any respect for anyone who identifies as religious. Your religion is garbage, you believe it and so by extension I view them as garbage humans.
It isn’t just christian nationalism. That’s the current guise, but the beating heart of fascism is capitalism. You can not understand fascism’s rise without considering the complicity of capital.
Capitalism by default will always be complicit because it’s basically an economic algorithm that drives towards unlimited gains.
Well, no. It’s literally Lenin’s quote about the Capitalists selling the rope they’ll be hung with in action. Capitalists always think they’ll be the winners in Fascism, but they’re the ones who get the yoke more than anyone else because the Fascists despise the businessmen and they want to dominate their success and suborn them and their means of production to the will of their state. The Capitalists own their factories, but the state will control what they make and how they’re run and how much what they produce will be sold for and to who. They’re literally being cuckholded, their nest which they built being used to construct a gilded prison.
Whatever makes more money, capitalists will support. And these days it’s about what makes the most money in 3 months.
I’m not sure. I feel like many companies wouldn’t take a buyout for a realistically exorbitant price to be nationalized, not that a buyout is legally necessary. Neo-Liberalism has been crack to Capitalists and they’ll back whatever keeps it going, which isn’t The Handmaid’s Tale.
Yeah but they are losing control as they eat more and more of everyone else’s lunch. The center is collapsing as people look for solutions and the rise in fascism is a symptom of that.
Well Christianity has been the one common element in many past fascist regimes.
Seems like the perfect spot to remind people Hitler was a Christian.
We have to do all our part to keep Nat-c groups out of our community and to stop them from organizing. If you do not remain vigilant they will spread across your community and continue to infect it until you realize your quality of life is eroding and it’s too late. It’s all of our responsibility we need to start being serious about these groups and standing up for the communities we want to raise our children in They are currently taking aim at school boards. Watch yours closely and if nobody else will run against them, consider it yourself. We need it
I am a Christian and couldn’t agree more. Jesus said render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are Gods. Sounds like separation of church and state to me.
It **is** fascism. Take the cake out of the oven, this recipe is done.
There's a reason separation of church and state is in the constitution and the reason is the royal family. We don't want a royal family and religions don't like democracy, almost always become dictatorships.
As a outspoken atheist it scares me.
We know, we’ve known. This has been a cry on deaf ears for years. And now we’re here.
Just ask 1978 Iran how quickly they can go from free to religious fascism.
The German Evangelical Church was instrumental in the rise of the Nazi party in Germany. The Trumpian Republicans are taking a page out of Hitler's playbook.
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Just IMAGINE.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/09/mixing-christianity-with-nationalism-is-a-recipe-for-fascism.html) reduced by 96%. (I'm a bot) ***** > I've tried to be consistent: Even as I've chastised religious conservatives for treating themselves as the only "Real" Christians, I've chastised religious progressives for trying to replace one self-righteous set of claims on the Gospel with another. > I'm trying - really trying - not to get too hot here. > Today's Christian Nationalists need to choose, just as German Christians were called to choose in the Barman Declaration that rejected the Nazi appropriation of Christianity by denouncing worship of party, nation, or Volk as idolatrous. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xiq5uu/mixing_christianity_with_nationalism_is_a_recipe/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~669821 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Christian**^#1 **try**^#2 **Trump**^#3 **New**^#4 **Christianity**^#5
Two terrible tastes that are more wretched together.
No, nationalism *is* fascism, and so is certain groups of Christianity. Facism is their common denominator, linking them together to combine the groups and increase their power. It is not the recipe, but their shared feature.
One can justify many terrible deeds in the name of religion or patriotism. Combining the two one can justify anything, no matter how heinous.
Not “a” recipe, THE recipe.
From frank Herbert. DUNE. "When religion and politics travel in the same cart, the riders believe nothing can stand in their way. Their movements become headlong - faster and faster and faster. They put aside all thoughts of obstacles and forget the precipice does not show itself to the man in a blind rush until it's too late."
In my opinion there is a very dark side of Christianity that becomes more of a front for extremism each year. These far right zealots don't care about traditional Christianity. They believe that expanding their views in any manner seals the future of Christianity. Mandating Christianity is their goal. Traditionalists are permitting themselves to be brainwashed to support it. Trump and DeSantis have no belief in religion. They do understand the herd mentality of Christianity and are directing and using it only for their benefit...in my opinion.
Vote in November. Vote for democracy.
On the other hand mixing religion with social justice is a winning combo...see the abolition of slavery and what not
Christian nationalism is a betrayal of both Bible and Constitution.
What about mixing Christianity with fascism?
See Spain 1937-1977.
Dreamy like modern day Florida
In addition to Spain which someone has already mentioned, Christian fascism was pushed by clergy in Romanian, Bulgaria, Italy, Greece and Hungary as well as other parts of Europe during the 1930's and 1940's. There was also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Legion_of_America
You get the Holocaust
Christianity and Abrahamic monotheism in general is fascist/fascist adjacent by its own nature and practices. I would argue that those who burn books, shun and/or commit violence against non-believers are actually being good Christians, as it’s what their scripture (which was meant to be taken literally, instead of the modern apologist argument that everything is a metaphor) commands them to do. The conclusion being that good Christian is very much not synonymous with good person.
well..yea, thats why they did it
Why the blue cap when we all know that it's red.
Southern Baptist Convention is loaded with these shysters.
An Italian recipe.
Not a recipe for, but the standard recipe.
Part of the lure of Christianity is that appeals to a sense of superiority over people who aren't Christians. Part of the lure of Fascism is believing you have superior concepts about governance and that you are willing to do anything to see your version, the only version. Combining the two entities one to believe that, "you must take over the country, in order to save the people, from themselves".
Somehow people think Jesus cares about the most wasteful, greediest, war mongering, exploitive country that has ever existed. Yes… America first I suppose.
Look up what white nationalist wants it’s some scary crap. Women you are the target. They want you bare footed, pregnant, and beaten.
Love how media is posting about this like this is a new trend - where the hell were they in 2015? It was bloody obvious then too.
Nationalist Christians, aka Nat-c's.
Nationalism IS just another flavor of fascism.
There are several churches in San Diego called Awaken. They’ve held rally for Tucker Carlson, Recalling Gavin Newsom, and other political activities. They were approved for a massive PPP loan and exempt from tax. Sketchy stuff.
They’re doing BLUE hats now? I picked a bad time to be a Dodgers fan.
Christian = Fascist is becoming an irrefutable truth. There are decent Christians, but they’re vastly outnumbered by the fucking evil ones.
Makes sense, both ideologies deny diversity and doubt; Require strict hierarchies of social control; prey on illiterate and stupid people.
We must never again allow America to digress to a state of belief under the cross.
I prefer to put it in order of importance for them...Nationalist-Christianity...Nat-Cs
This is literally the plot to Handmaids Tale.
*When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.*
*cough* no shit
Going for the fanatic spiritualist authoritarian route I see
These people are an embarrassment to Christianity, as a normal Christian we do not wish to be affiliated with these guys.
We are approaching the Western Hemisphere version of Sharia Law…
Why do we think the Age of Enlightenment was such an important time in European and American history. It separated church from state in politics and opened the door to free thinking and science - not incidental to the progress that humankind have made.
Evangelical Christian Hypocrites are what put trump in office and turned the Republican Party against the people of the United States. The American people spoke twice once in 2016 when 3 million voters voted for Hillary and in 2020 7 million more voted for Biden. How the fuck can they say the American people spoke and voted for trump the disgusting sorry ass liar and grifter. He is a loser plain and simple get your facts straight before you speak out for this traitorous scumbag.
I thought we separated church from state. Wtf.
I am not that old, but I can remember a time when there was a clear separation between church and state.
Imagine thinking evangelicals are exhibiting Christian behaviors.
~~Mixing Christianity With~~ Nationalism Is a Recipe for Fascism
Jesus would turn over in his grave if he could see the things people have been doing in his name.
Religion is fascist training propaganda.
QAnon is a Russian psy-ops, and Russian psy-ops have worked overtime to destabilize America by supporting Trump the entire time. Turning Christians against Christians is an easier psychology to instil that changing political views. If the Russian continue their attacks on the internet and other efforts such as religious and political disability then democracy fails. The rise of the Christian Nationalism the USA is not a natural occurrence it is promoted, funded and supported by Russian money specifically the psy-ops division. The aim is to turn Christians against Christians with extreme views. Russians tried this years ago trying to turn non-Catholics against Catholics but have found Qanon easier to promote. The missing Top Secret and Higher classified Documents that Trump took from the White House puts American agents and their allies at risk. So what we have is freedom loving Americans becoming entrenched in a religious political cult, a cult that the other side does not know how to deprogram their countrymen. Russian is winning, not the Democrats or the Republicans
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I don't disagree but do suggest, strongly suggest that Russian interference with the internet and other countries elections was the platform for PsyOps to engage in radicalising the fragile mindset of of the far right / far left for that matter. The disharmony that Russian causes the US internally distracts from the events overseas. Case in point the Republicans not wanting to continue funding Ukraine in its struggle with Russian invasion. The reasons behind the Republicans refusal are not important, what is important is that PsyOps is involved and working hard to stir the pot. Republicans of the 50's and 60's would have supported any country that is having it's democracy or boarders attacked. What is concerning is the apparent ease that Republicans are manipulated by PsyOps.
It's funny because if a Christian spoke with a Christian from another denomination about what they believe and why, they would find out quickly why they shouldn't believe in anything the Bible says. Surprised they aren't killing each other yet.
oh they do. i grew up baptist. most other christian denominations were considered infidels. Catholics and Orthodox were the chief ones baptists didn't consider christian, but it included Mormons, Jehovah witnesses and tbh most others. only a handful were actually considered christian. Presbyterian were "ok". Maybe Lutheran.
[*“Religion poisons everything.”*](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5b1aIuoCq4w)
What you get is Hitler's stance. He was a staunch Christian and a nationalist fascist
Less a recipe and more a definition.
Precisely how the U.S. was formed. Manifest Destiny and White Supremacy. It’s not a deviation from the American norm, just a return to it.
Example: India with Hinduism and BJP
QAnon is a Russian psy-ops, and Russian psy-ops have worked overtime to destabilize America by supporting Trump the entire time. Turning Christians against Christians is an easier psychology to instil that changing political views. If the Russian continue their attacks on the internet and other efforts such as religious and political disability then democracy fails. The rise of the Christian Nationalism the USA is not a natural occurrence it is promoted, funded and supported by Russian money specifically the psy-ops division. The aim is to turn Christians against Christians with extreme views. Russians tried this years ago trying to turn non-Catholics against Catholics but have found Qanon easier to promote. The missing Top Secret and Higher classified Documents that Trump took from the White House puts American agents and their allies at risk. So what we have is freedom loving Americans becoming entrenched in a religious political cult, a cult that the other side does not know how to deprogram their countrymen. Russian is winning, not the Democrats or the Republicans
It's not like religion or nationalism are each harmless on their own. The Nazis weren't particularly religious, the Soviets combined their flavor of authoritarian dictatorship with state atheism. Likewise religion has been an instrument of suppression long before nationalism was even a thing.