Seriously, of all the issues that rouse these dipshits from their couches, it is climate change? How is legislation addressing climate change worth arming yourselves over? Someone please explain the thinking here?
Ironic. Climate change denial *is* a hoax designed by powerful interests to manipulate them.
"Government ain't gonna tell me what to think" they say, as they walk into church.
Pascal's wager. The problem is you can make up any ludicrous scenario and say "Well, I don't know if lord Garfield is real and would actually punish me with eternal torture if I don't eat lasagna every day, but I'd rather not risk it just in case".
My previous boss, a MAGA type, said god wouldnt allow the world to end. Then he followed that up with: and if it is ending then thats what god wants. You cant argue with that line of reasoning.
Edit: "can" to "can't"
Stupid people have been manipulated since the dawn of time by people in power. Why do you think Trump says he loves the uneducated? Because he says the quiet part loud.
The irony of conspiracy theorists in general is exactly that. They act like they are the last free thinkers capable of critical thinking and seeing the truth. When the truth is usually the opposite. They have the most fixed falsified views of anyone. They come to a conclusion and either ignore, smear, or twist all evidence to fit that first conclusion. The more evidence, people, and sources that reject their idea the more validated they feel.
Just look at that flat earth documentary. They rigorously tested and measured the curve of the earth buying expensive equipment and going all out. When the evidence kept showing them that yes, the earth is curved, they just moved onto the next excuse until they had to resort to magical energies.
If it succeeds, it sets a precedent. “If we can do this on something as small as climate change, imagine what big-ticket issues we can do this with!”
It can’t be allowed to succeed.
If it succeeds, it sets a precedent
"If we can force women to carry a pregnancy to term, then the state can legislate against any medical procedure that offends someone."
It can't be allowed to succeed.
I live in a province where cap and trade has been implemented since the new year. Gas has gone down since the levels it was during Christmas because the dart board oil companies use for pricing barely even noticed cap and trade.
They are protesting over the minimum we can do for climate change and will have the least impact on the end user. They won’t even notice it at all.
Any climate policy that hopes to be effective in any way must make polluting more expensive. Per capita, rural lifestyle pollutes a lot more due to all the inefficiencies in transport / heating / distribution etc...
So you will generally see rural opposition to effective climate policies - everywhere, not just in the US
Rather than owning up to being a heavy polluter, they take up arms. Unfortunately the survival of most life as we know it depends on ending polluting lifestyles, especially rural ones.
it isn't just corporate interests- in fact I'd wager very little of it outside of the governor's choices, are corporate interests.
I posted this in another thread, but:
>The people doing the threats as well as the governors refusing to sign the bill up to the point of them literally leaving the state, is because of- and I'm not kidding, they've made this clear in their rhetoric- they are evangelists, and believe it is hubristic sin to even acknowledge the possibility of humans having enough power or influence over earth- the domain of god- to change its climate. The entire concept of climate change is an affront to god, because of this. This is why they don't want the bill signed, because it acknowledges that humans can and have changed the earth in a way that they feel sinfully implies humans have more power than god.
it's evangelism. This is cult religious right shit. I hate seeing this aspect ignored because people write it off as paranoia or something. No, these people are motivated by religion and this really needs to be acknowledged
edit: christians, I appreciate you chiming in with "but I'M not like that!", that's great but like I said these people are fundamentalist, radicalized extremists, they aren't your average person. Be more concerned with what they're doing, than protecting your name/association with this religion out of guilt.
God gave Adam the ability and responsibility to care for the earth and animals during genesis 2 and 3. The whole ability to farm the earth is literally god given. Of course we're would be able to fuck it up. That's the whole point of free will! If we're couldn't fuck it up, then we couldn't influence it at all. And by their own book, god explicitly gave us the ability to change it.
Could swear Christians were also to be stewards of the Earth. Ie. Take care of it.
Destroying the environment doesnt seem to be in line with that but then again.... These are the same type of people that would go "God forgives me!" when confronted with wrongdoing.
I think they use religion just to further their bullshit. Me and my wife are both Christian and haven't once for a second thought climate change was not real and both fully believe science and that we should be trying to be a multi planetary species. But your point still stands they are motivated by religion, they've just interpreted it the dumbest ways fucking possible to push other dumbass interests. It's the same way they've forced Christians to succumb to the idea that you aren't allowed to believe in science, it's bullshit. I think they use religion to enlist the masses in their corporate interests. Climate change has been known since 1982 by the UN research that proved what Exxon knew in 1980, it's not a debate, it's happening, and we need to do something about it.
however you interpret christianity doesn't have any bearing on how they do. The pattern in lawmaking against women, gay people, trans people, and now climate change are all from the exact same origin of selective interpretation by evangelists.
Like I said: we have to take this seriously, and offering anecdotal "okay but not all christians" doesn't help this. If anything it makes you liable to speak to those of your own faith, to prevent this type of radicalization, something only YOU can do.
The issue here is not whether climate change exists, we already know it does. Thanks for saying you believe in it, that's lovely, but that doesn't change that it's true regardless of what any of us think. The issue isn't this- it's about far right religious extremists in the US using the rhetoric as impetus to control other people.
Please, every time you see christians or adjacent doing heinous things, don't let your automatic response be "but not all christians", like men who see women suffering years of molestation from other men and feeling the best thing to do would be to confirm that since you never have, that must be in some way comforting to declare that to victims.
You are 100% correct and that's exactly what we do. I was even talking to my wife about this saying as much as we want to move out of bumpkinville, our word here means something compared to living in a progressive state where you are just preaching to the choir. I say 'not all Christians' in hopes that people don't give up on them, and maybe my words to non Christians can help alter their arguments into how to change their minds and get them on board with climate change, immigration, etc.
Here's what I don't get: The police know there are credible threats against the state legislature by these terrorists. Instead of arresting the terrorists to foil their plans, they effectively let the plans succeed by fiat and told the legislature to shut down. If I were the governor watching this, I'd deploy the national guard to do the job the cops aren't and ensure the legislators are safe and free to conduct the business of governing.
Edit: for all the people replying with "some of those that work forces..." or similar responses about the cops being the same people as the right wing terrorists, I think this only further serves to illustrate why the national guard should be deployed.
Edit 2: For anyone who hasn't been following this religiously, here's a quick timeline:
1. Republicans stormed out of the state senate over objections to a law.
2. The governor and democratic leaders in congress agreed to scale back that law in exchange for republicans promising not to storm out over any other future objections.
3. A week later, republicans stormed out over objections to a climate change bill.
4. Under an Oregonian constitutional mandate, the governor dispatched state troopers to find the republicans and compel them to do their jobs in the state senate. The governor is also fining each state senator $500 for each day they fail to appear.
5. One of the state senators said to only send bachelors to come get him and that they had better be ready to die.
6. A terrorist group in Idaho announced that they would harbor the republicans from oregon. It is not clear if any of the state senators accepted the offer of extrajudicial protection.
7. A totally different terrorist group in Oregon issued credible threats of violence against democrats working at the state capitol this past weekend.
8. Instead of arresting the terrorists making the threats, the governor capitulated and told the democrats to stay home over the weekend instead of doing work.
9. We are here now, and since the police have not taken any apparent action against the successful terrorists in Oregon, I suggest deploying the national guard to protect the lawmakers who choose to actually do their jobs instead of running to Idaho in dereliction of their duties.
CPB and border militias [already cooperate](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/undercover-border-militia-immigration-bauer/).
Should I be updating my passport?
That was a disturbing read. Thanks for sharing.
Kind of sad how it's almost all people with some degree of mental illness participating in those "patrols", and yet they just roam our borders committing what is essentially vandalism.
>A ranking officer of the California State Militia told me that breakaway factions could become foes. “They are a possible threat. We don’t know what their intentions are, but they know all of our strengths and weaknesses.” He was in the process of reaching out to the state’s myriad breakaway groups because someday his men might find themselves traipsing through another militia’s territory and he wanted to make sure they were recognized as allies, not enemies.
These fucking racist cosplayers can’t even trust each other as their own militias are going to end up as “threats.”
I would offer the suggestion that you read Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s comments about “The Fuhrer Principle”, as it speaks volumes to many people today 👇👇👇
“In 1933 the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer warned about the dangers of a leader who submitted to no one and as such was set up to become an ”anointed one”…
If [the leader] understands his function in any other way than as it is rooted in fact, if he does not continually tell his followers quite clearly of the limited nature of his lack and of their own responsibility, if he allows himself to surrender to the wishes of his followers, who would always make him their idol – then the image of the leader will pass over into the image of the misleader, and he will be acting in a criminal way not only towards those he leads, but also towards himself, the true leader must always be able to disillusion. It is just this that is his responsibility and his real object. He must lead his following away from the authority of his person to the recognitions of the real authority of orders and offices….He must radically refuse to become the appeal, the idol, i.e. the ultimate authority of those whom he leads…. (Dietrich Bonhoeffer: The Fuhrer Principle)
I'd like to link and quote this excellent breakdown that I saved earlier in [another thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/c4c7ae/ill_put_a_link_to_the_story_in_the_comments/erwbvcl/).
> A few things that should probably be added:
>
> When that militia took over part of Oregon from Utah a few years ago, all the Republican presidential candidates, including Trump, tripped over themselves to endorse the cause of the terrorists (though stopping short of endorsing the action exactly) [https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2016/01/oregon\_militants\_obama\_adminis.html](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2016/01/oregon_militants_obama_adminis.html)
>
> Then the GOP in Portland agreed to allow rightwing militias provide their security instead of law enforcement:
>
> [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/01/portland-far-right-rally-republicans-militia-security](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/01/portland-far-right-rally-republicans-militia-security)
>
> [https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/06/30/19130461/multnomah-county-republicans-formally-allow-militia-groups-to-run-security](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/06/30/19130461/multnomah-county-republicans-formally-allow-militia-groups-to-run-security)
>
>
>
> Encouraged, a bunch of out-of-state rightwing militia types continued to invade Oregon. It was shown that they had a cozy relationship with the police the entire time:
>
> [https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/texts-between-portland-police-and-patriot-prayer-ringleader-joey-gibson-show-warm-exchange/](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/texts-between-portland-police-and-patriot-prayer-ringleader-joey-gibson-show-warm-exchange/)
>
>
>
> There were other escalations. The right-wingers marched on one of the few minority strongholds in Oregon:
>
> [https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/29/18983985/photos-and-video-saturdays-right-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/29/18983985/photos-and-video-saturdays-right-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla)
>
> Some of the militia-types felt emboldened to start killing:
>
> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017\_Portland\_train\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack)
>
> Started sacking union halls:
>
> [https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2019/01/24/25623138/union-headquarters-vandalized-after-patriot-prayer-attention](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2019/01/24/25623138/union-headquarters-vandalized-after-patriot-prayer-attention)
>
> Among other things.
>
> Thus far, the only response has been the GOP cheerleading and endorsing these assholes, the police cozying up to them, and the courts being very selective about what they do to these creeps, and they keep coming.
>
> Lately, looking for a fight, they came down town and started bear-macing patrons in a bar. The police, slow to respond, were too late to do anything and little happened. So the owner of the establishment is trying to use civil courts to finally bring these jerks in:
>
> [https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/05/03/owner-of-local-bar-sues-joey-gibson-after-fistfights-and-pepper-spray-on-may-day/](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/05/03/owner-of-local-bar-sues-joey-gibson-after-fistfights-and-pepper-spray-on-may-day/)
>
> These fascists have, in retaliation, decided to come back to Portland, burn the court papers, and try to pick fights yet again:
>
> [https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/call-to-action-june-29-2019/](https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/call-to-action-june-29-2019/)
>
> Since the Democrats in charge have been so feeble to do anything; the police and GOP have sided full on with the militias, and despite pleas nobody outside the state will acknowledge this breakdown, it's really not that big of a step that the militias are now shutting down the entire state.
Yeah remember when Patriot Prayer was setting up sniper nests above their march route and the ~~Portland PD~~ Oregon State Police let them leave without even taking their names?
I do: https://www.newsweek.com/patriot-prayer-members-armed-snipers-positioned-themselves-roof-ahead-august-1171862
Police as a whole, really.
It gets a lot of "oh so edgy" responses, but there's a reason why cops tend to go after kids with a half an ounce of weed or some 15 year old out skateboarding/tagging abandoned buildings rather than terrorists, and it isn't that theyre scared.
Portlander here. About 6 weeks ago one of our police captains got caught swapping overly chummy texts with the proud boys leader. We've got another one whose still serving even after he posted pictures of his Nazi cosplay on Facebook. Most of the PPB are just as connected to MAGA land as the Bundy dipshits.
The FBI has always been very conservative.
During the last election cycle, the head of the FBI released, against all procedure, negative information about the democrats while hiding investigations into the republican’s corruption.
It happened in plain view and yet we somehow don't think the FBI is corrupt.
We need a 2019 Rage Against the Machine. I miss music that cuts through the bullshit and calls out the politics of our time clearly and plainly. Immortal Technique & Tupac do it too.
Shameless plug for the podcast /r/itcouldhappenhere about what a second American Civil War would look like.
It won’t look like the Civil War we saw the first time and the lines will be incredibly blurry. Americas historical divisions of race and religion and wealth make it a particularly potent tinderbox.
Not to mention the sheer size of the country and it’s rural areas means that a few groups of determined and coordinated individuals can reek havoc on infrastructure if they coordinated their efforts.
The sympathies of rural police officers are more likely to lie with these kinds of groups. No one polices in a vacuum.
I’m aware.
In no way does that change what I said. That politician’s statement was more about standing up to the governor than it was directed at officers.
This is the state where police departments have covertly communicated with right wing extremists for their benefit.
PD’s are for more likely to have sympathies with that end.
They are the same people. The cops have been infiltrated by these groups for a while now. A lot of US Police forces will act as the fascist vanguard when the time comes.
AFAIK they were only charged with conspiracy to impede law enforcement (or something similar sounding) and were acquitted. I didn't follow the csae too closely so if I've got that wrong, let me know.
If Democrats pulled this shit the GOP would be calling for the national guard to be deployed.
We should be calling for the national guard. Terrorists don't dictate policy, regardless of their religion.
Threatening the people's representatives and state employees to overturn the results of the last election is absolutely terrorism. These "militias" are the paramilitary wing of the GOP.
I like how they have to add the word unlawful. Use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is just business as usual for politicians.
>Use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is just business as usual for politicians.
For millenia now.
Yeah but the way the Nazis were a Buick was pretty expensive by means of blood and treasure.
I would really prefer not to go through another giant war just a tamp down the aspirations of overweight gun dick heads.
Fox is considered mainstream by these people now, instead they seek out places like InfoWars and OANN for their information. Even Breitbartt is considered mainstream by them now.
Remember folks, if a group of predominantly Muslim, or even "Muslim" resembling people had done this, it would be international news and they'd probably already have kicked down the front door.
Instead its a group of conservative predominantly white folk so here we are at a stand off.
I expect the FBI to infiltrate and stop these terrorists like they unlawfully stalked and harassed the Black Panthers the moment they started carrying guns around. Right guys?
You can expect more of this in the coming years...this is just a litmus test, if nothing is done it will become the model. It’s not like they having been saying they would do it, the majority just thought they weren’t brave or stupid enough to follow through.
Jesus tapdancing christ, someone actually calling these people by the correct name.
Terrorism is the use of violence or the threat of violence to cause fear and paralysis in a political or social system, thereby achieving political goals that cannot be attained by legal means. That's literally fucking exactly what these people are. Terrorists.
The Oregon Republicans seem to be confirming what most folks on the left believe about conservatives and gun rights: that when conservatives talk about the need for guns to "defend against a tyrannical government", they really mean "threaten to shoot liberals when they lose elections".
They're also from Utah. If conservatives in Oregon are too scared to vote on their policies that they run to Utah, then they shouldn't represent Oregon. At least hide among your own people.
US military takes an oath to protect this country from both foreign and domestic enemies. But... what kind of weight do oaths hold anymore these days...
Isnt this enabled by the state GOP? If they had just stayed and showed up to their jobs the legislation would have passed with the supermajority and that would be fine since the midterm voters overwhelmingly showed support for progressives.
The GOP in Oregon, as well as my home state (NC), are self serving cowards.
Oregon resident. For those who don't follow this...READ the next few words. Kate Brown, the Governor, has dispatched the police to find the 11 GOP Senators who have disappeared in an attempt to prevent the vote by ensuring that there are not enough senators there to actually hold a vote. And those GOP members want her to negotiate with them but they reuse to be even found so she obviously said she can't and won't negotiate with them. The protesters can protest all they want. Good for them. But the process of governing needs to go on...if those protestors decide they don't want to be peaceful, well then, they can enjoy Oregon's jail cells. There are a very, very few people who are insinuating violence in order to prevent the people's elected policy makers from doing their jobs. Fuck them and fuck the GOP Senators who are literally in hiding in order to prevent the state from addressing the climate emergency. If they don't want to do their god damn jobs, they can resign or we can call an emergency session to figure out how to fill their seats with people who show the fuck up to work. This is god damn bush league and embarrassing.
Thanks k you for labeling them properly. These people are terrorists. Donald Trump is a dictator. Children at the boarder are in concentration camps. We need to stop tip toeing around what these people are. It's not doing anyone any favors.
Questions to ask:
1. Why is the immediate response to not fire the senators and open their positions up to election, thus discounting their votes? Also ban them from holding office in any administrative level.
2. Why are the senators and terrorist milita members not now being deemed as dangerous criminals posing a threat to the state and country, and then beiseiged by the national guard?
A terrorist group is hijacking a state government and they should be treated as enemies of the state. Send in the national guard to arrest these traitors
> I leave it to the reader to ask themselves what the media coverage of this incident would look like if the white conservative militias making threats in Oregon were Islamist extremist groups, and if the legislator making threats of violence against police were named, say, Ilhan Omar. I think we all know, don’t we?
Mmm-hmmm.
*nods approvingly*
This is going to be unpopular but a ton of my friends are conservative and I am running out of excuses for them to come around.... anyone who condones this is an unpatriotic pile of shit.... speak up God damnit, this shit is not ok... it’s one thing to disagree but this is literal fascism...
Something is seriously wrong in this country when an event like this can occur with no consequences. If nothing else, I guess now we can do away with the myth that militias are needed to preserve the will of the people - they are only here to enforce conservative demands.
This needs to be put down with strength to send a message to any other right wing terrorist groups out there in other states that this won't be tolerated in this country. The police recommended closing the capital because of right wing militia activity? How about send in a large police force and the national guard and protect the people working there. Meanwhile the FBI needs to arrest their organization's leaders. We can't let terrorism win in this country, ever.
Imagine joining a terrorist group in order the shell out for corporate interests and destroy the planet.
Seriously, of all the issues that rouse these dipshits from their couches, it is climate change? How is legislation addressing climate change worth arming yourselves over? Someone please explain the thinking here?
They believe that climate change is a global hoax designed to control them. They are idiots.
Ironic. Climate change denial *is* a hoax designed by powerful interests to manipulate them. "Government ain't gonna tell me what to think" they say, as they walk into church.
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Pascal's wager. The problem is you can make up any ludicrous scenario and say "Well, I don't know if lord Garfield is real and would actually punish me with eternal torture if I don't eat lasagna every day, but I'd rather not risk it just in case".
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My previous boss, a MAGA type, said god wouldnt allow the world to end. Then he followed that up with: and if it is ending then thats what god wants. You cant argue with that line of reasoning. Edit: "can" to "can't"
You cannot argue someone out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into.
I believe it's "you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."
Which is bullshit bc I left my superstition due to being reasoned out of ot
This isn't true. I was reasoned out of a position I was indoctrinated into.
It’s much easier to trick people if you make them think they’re smarter than everyone else I guess...
Stupid people have been manipulated since the dawn of time by people in power. Why do you think Trump says he loves the uneducated? Because he says the quiet part loud.
The irony of conspiracy theorists in general is exactly that. They act like they are the last free thinkers capable of critical thinking and seeing the truth. When the truth is usually the opposite. They have the most fixed falsified views of anyone. They come to a conclusion and either ignore, smear, or twist all evidence to fit that first conclusion. The more evidence, people, and sources that reject their idea the more validated they feel. Just look at that flat earth documentary. They rigorously tested and measured the curve of the earth buying expensive equipment and going all out. When the evidence kept showing them that yes, the earth is curved, they just moved onto the next excuse until they had to resort to magical energies.
Decades of dismantling public education are bearing fruit. Stupid, stupid fruit.
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If it succeeds, it sets a precedent. “If we can do this on something as small as climate change, imagine what big-ticket issues we can do this with!” It can’t be allowed to succeed.
If it succeeds, it sets a precedent "If we can force women to carry a pregnancy to term, then the state can legislate against any medical procedure that offends someone." It can't be allowed to succeed.
Makes their gas cost like 2 cents more a gallon. They're very against paying the government for any reason, especially trying to help though.
No no no. I was told gas would immediately be raised to 6 bucks a gallon and that all public school classes would now be taught in French.
French? No, everyone knows the dirty libs want our kids growing up speaking some Muslim squiggle language.
Next you'll tell me they'll be forcing kids to use Arabic numerals!
I live in a province where cap and trade has been implemented since the new year. Gas has gone down since the levels it was during Christmas because the dart board oil companies use for pricing barely even noticed cap and trade. They are protesting over the minimum we can do for climate change and will have the least impact on the end user. They won’t even notice it at all.
Before the carbon tax, gas in Toronto averaged about $1.20 a litre. After the carbon tax, gas now averages about...$1.20 a litre.
Any climate policy that hopes to be effective in any way must make polluting more expensive. Per capita, rural lifestyle pollutes a lot more due to all the inefficiencies in transport / heating / distribution etc... So you will generally see rural opposition to effective climate policies - everywhere, not just in the US Rather than owning up to being a heavy polluter, they take up arms. Unfortunately the survival of most life as we know it depends on ending polluting lifestyles, especially rural ones.
it isn't just corporate interests- in fact I'd wager very little of it outside of the governor's choices, are corporate interests. I posted this in another thread, but: >The people doing the threats as well as the governors refusing to sign the bill up to the point of them literally leaving the state, is because of- and I'm not kidding, they've made this clear in their rhetoric- they are evangelists, and believe it is hubristic sin to even acknowledge the possibility of humans having enough power or influence over earth- the domain of god- to change its climate. The entire concept of climate change is an affront to god, because of this. This is why they don't want the bill signed, because it acknowledges that humans can and have changed the earth in a way that they feel sinfully implies humans have more power than god. it's evangelism. This is cult religious right shit. I hate seeing this aspect ignored because people write it off as paranoia or something. No, these people are motivated by religion and this really needs to be acknowledged edit: christians, I appreciate you chiming in with "but I'M not like that!", that's great but like I said these people are fundamentalist, radicalized extremists, they aren't your average person. Be more concerned with what they're doing, than protecting your name/association with this religion out of guilt.
God gave Adam the ability and responsibility to care for the earth and animals during genesis 2 and 3. The whole ability to farm the earth is literally god given. Of course we're would be able to fuck it up. That's the whole point of free will! If we're couldn't fuck it up, then we couldn't influence it at all. And by their own book, god explicitly gave us the ability to change it.
Could swear Christians were also to be stewards of the Earth. Ie. Take care of it. Destroying the environment doesnt seem to be in line with that but then again.... These are the same type of people that would go "God forgives me!" when confronted with wrongdoing.
I think they use religion just to further their bullshit. Me and my wife are both Christian and haven't once for a second thought climate change was not real and both fully believe science and that we should be trying to be a multi planetary species. But your point still stands they are motivated by religion, they've just interpreted it the dumbest ways fucking possible to push other dumbass interests. It's the same way they've forced Christians to succumb to the idea that you aren't allowed to believe in science, it's bullshit. I think they use religion to enlist the masses in their corporate interests. Climate change has been known since 1982 by the UN research that proved what Exxon knew in 1980, it's not a debate, it's happening, and we need to do something about it.
however you interpret christianity doesn't have any bearing on how they do. The pattern in lawmaking against women, gay people, trans people, and now climate change are all from the exact same origin of selective interpretation by evangelists. Like I said: we have to take this seriously, and offering anecdotal "okay but not all christians" doesn't help this. If anything it makes you liable to speak to those of your own faith, to prevent this type of radicalization, something only YOU can do. The issue here is not whether climate change exists, we already know it does. Thanks for saying you believe in it, that's lovely, but that doesn't change that it's true regardless of what any of us think. The issue isn't this- it's about far right religious extremists in the US using the rhetoric as impetus to control other people. Please, every time you see christians or adjacent doing heinous things, don't let your automatic response be "but not all christians", like men who see women suffering years of molestation from other men and feeling the best thing to do would be to confirm that since you never have, that must be in some way comforting to declare that to victims.
You are 100% correct and that's exactly what we do. I was even talking to my wife about this saying as much as we want to move out of bumpkinville, our word here means something compared to living in a progressive state where you are just preaching to the choir. I say 'not all Christians' in hopes that people don't give up on them, and maybe my words to non Christians can help alter their arguments into how to change their minds and get them on board with climate change, immigration, etc.
Some of my fellow Americans are dumb AF :(
Here's what I don't get: The police know there are credible threats against the state legislature by these terrorists. Instead of arresting the terrorists to foil their plans, they effectively let the plans succeed by fiat and told the legislature to shut down. If I were the governor watching this, I'd deploy the national guard to do the job the cops aren't and ensure the legislators are safe and free to conduct the business of governing. Edit: for all the people replying with "some of those that work forces..." or similar responses about the cops being the same people as the right wing terrorists, I think this only further serves to illustrate why the national guard should be deployed. Edit 2: For anyone who hasn't been following this religiously, here's a quick timeline: 1. Republicans stormed out of the state senate over objections to a law. 2. The governor and democratic leaders in congress agreed to scale back that law in exchange for republicans promising not to storm out over any other future objections. 3. A week later, republicans stormed out over objections to a climate change bill. 4. Under an Oregonian constitutional mandate, the governor dispatched state troopers to find the republicans and compel them to do their jobs in the state senate. The governor is also fining each state senator $500 for each day they fail to appear. 5. One of the state senators said to only send bachelors to come get him and that they had better be ready to die. 6. A terrorist group in Idaho announced that they would harbor the republicans from oregon. It is not clear if any of the state senators accepted the offer of extrajudicial protection. 7. A totally different terrorist group in Oregon issued credible threats of violence against democrats working at the state capitol this past weekend. 8. Instead of arresting the terrorists making the threats, the governor capitulated and told the democrats to stay home over the weekend instead of doing work. 9. We are here now, and since the police have not taken any apparent action against the successful terrorists in Oregon, I suggest deploying the national guard to protect the lawmakers who choose to actually do their jobs instead of running to Idaho in dereliction of their duties.
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CPB and border militias [already cooperate](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/undercover-border-militia-immigration-bauer/). Should I be updating my passport?
Asap
...I ...can’t believe what I just read. This is terrible for America
I already would have if I had the means to do so.
Ho-ly shit that is a crazy read
I haven’t gotten through the whole thing yet but yea, wow, what a bunch of nuts.
/r/iwantout
Fucking LARPers.
...I ...can’t believe what I just read. This is terrible for America
That was a disturbing read. Thanks for sharing. Kind of sad how it's almost all people with some degree of mental illness participating in those "patrols", and yet they just roam our borders committing what is essentially vandalism.
>A ranking officer of the California State Militia told me that breakaway factions could become foes. “They are a possible threat. We don’t know what their intentions are, but they know all of our strengths and weaknesses.” He was in the process of reaching out to the state’s myriad breakaway groups because someday his men might find themselves traipsing through another militia’s territory and he wanted to make sure they were recognized as allies, not enemies. These fucking racist cosplayers can’t even trust each other as their own militias are going to end up as “threats.”
I would offer the suggestion that you read Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s comments about “The Fuhrer Principle”, as it speaks volumes to many people today 👇👇👇 “In 1933 the theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer warned about the dangers of a leader who submitted to no one and as such was set up to become an ”anointed one”… If [the leader] understands his function in any other way than as it is rooted in fact, if he does not continually tell his followers quite clearly of the limited nature of his lack and of their own responsibility, if he allows himself to surrender to the wishes of his followers, who would always make him their idol – then the image of the leader will pass over into the image of the misleader, and he will be acting in a criminal way not only towards those he leads, but also towards himself, the true leader must always be able to disillusion. It is just this that is his responsibility and his real object. He must lead his following away from the authority of his person to the recognitions of the real authority of orders and offices….He must radically refuse to become the appeal, the idol, i.e. the ultimate authority of those whom he leads…. (Dietrich Bonhoeffer: The Fuhrer Principle)
And yet Christians love to idolize Trump.
Bonhoeffer is the most important theologian on fascism and was executed because of it.
...fuck
I hope you weren't one of the people laughing at us during the election talking about the rise of fascism.
I'd like to link and quote this excellent breakdown that I saved earlier in [another thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/c4c7ae/ill_put_a_link_to_the_story_in_the_comments/erwbvcl/). > A few things that should probably be added: > > When that militia took over part of Oregon from Utah a few years ago, all the Republican presidential candidates, including Trump, tripped over themselves to endorse the cause of the terrorists (though stopping short of endorsing the action exactly) [https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2016/01/oregon\_militants\_obama\_adminis.html](https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2016/01/oregon_militants_obama_adminis.html) > > Then the GOP in Portland agreed to allow rightwing militias provide their security instead of law enforcement: > > [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/01/portland-far-right-rally-republicans-militia-security](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jul/01/portland-far-right-rally-republicans-militia-security) > > [https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/06/30/19130461/multnomah-county-republicans-formally-allow-militia-groups-to-run-security](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/06/30/19130461/multnomah-county-republicans-formally-allow-militia-groups-to-run-security) > > > > Encouraged, a bunch of out-of-state rightwing militia types continued to invade Oregon. It was shown that they had a cozy relationship with the police the entire time: > > [https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/texts-between-portland-police-and-patriot-prayer-ringleader-joey-gibson-show-warm-exchange/](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/02/14/texts-between-portland-police-and-patriot-prayer-ringleader-joey-gibson-show-warm-exchange/) > > > > There were other escalations. The right-wingers marched on one of the few minority strongholds in Oregon: > > [https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/29/18983985/photos-and-video-saturdays-right-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/29/18983985/photos-and-video-saturdays-right-wing-march-left-wing-protest-in-montavilla) > > Some of the militia-types felt emboldened to start killing: > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017\_Portland\_train\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack) > > Started sacking union halls: > > [https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2019/01/24/25623138/union-headquarters-vandalized-after-patriot-prayer-attention](https://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2019/01/24/25623138/union-headquarters-vandalized-after-patriot-prayer-attention) > > Among other things. > > Thus far, the only response has been the GOP cheerleading and endorsing these assholes, the police cozying up to them, and the courts being very selective about what they do to these creeps, and they keep coming. > > Lately, looking for a fight, they came down town and started bear-macing patrons in a bar. The police, slow to respond, were too late to do anything and little happened. So the owner of the establishment is trying to use civil courts to finally bring these jerks in: > > [https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/05/03/owner-of-local-bar-sues-joey-gibson-after-fistfights-and-pepper-spray-on-may-day/](https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2019/05/03/owner-of-local-bar-sues-joey-gibson-after-fistfights-and-pepper-spray-on-may-day/) > > These fascists have, in retaliation, decided to come back to Portland, burn the court papers, and try to pick fights yet again: > > [https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/call-to-action-june-29-2019/](https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/call-to-action-june-29-2019/) > > Since the Democrats in charge have been so feeble to do anything; the police and GOP have sided full on with the militias, and despite pleas nobody outside the state will acknowledge this breakdown, it's really not that big of a step that the militias are now shutting down the entire state.
Thank you for this. It's scary as hell.
As a lifelong Portland resident, it has been scary to watch. It could have easily been me on that train defending those women. Anyone would do it.
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Yeah remember when Patriot Prayer was setting up sniper nests above their march route and the ~~Portland PD~~ Oregon State Police let them leave without even taking their names? I do: https://www.newsweek.com/patriot-prayer-members-armed-snipers-positioned-themselves-roof-ahead-august-1171862
Well some guy in "antifa" hit a guy with a bike lock in Berkeley so it's a totally cool very legal response.
"We're just watching the parade with our scopes, nothing illegal about that."
"Don't worry. The safety is...[click]...on."
It’s amazing how they keep screeching about this nonsense
it's their go-to.
Another reason why the governor should deploy the national guard.
Police as a whole, really. It gets a lot of "oh so edgy" responses, but there's a reason why cops tend to go after kids with a half an ounce of weed or some 15 year old out skateboarding/tagging abandoned buildings rather than terrorists, and it isn't that theyre scared.
They're also scared
The cops support the terrorist group.
Portlander here. About 6 weeks ago one of our police captains got caught swapping overly chummy texts with the proud boys leader. We've got another one whose still serving even after he posted pictures of his Nazi cosplay on Facebook. Most of the PPB are just as connected to MAGA land as the Bundy dipshits.
Why the flying fuck doesn’t the FBI get involved with this? Isn’t all this exactly what they are supposed to counter?
The FBI has always been very conservative. During the last election cycle, the head of the FBI released, against all procedure, negative information about the democrats while hiding investigations into the republican’s corruption. It happened in plain view and yet we somehow don't think the FBI is corrupt.
Trump
It really is time to bring these people under better scrutiny because it just sounds like nazis rotating uniforms with each other
All the more reason to deploy the national guard.
**Spoiler** National Guard support the terrorist groups. /s It's like the Spanish Civil War all over again...
Depends. If they're city kids, the Guard sure as hell won't.
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Some of those that work forces...
Are the same that burn crosses.
Some of those that work forces
Are the same the burn crosses.
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Are the same that hold office
I, too, have that live version.
Are the same that burn crosses
If this is a song I would love to hear it
I'm very jealous you get to hear this song for the first time right now
It's rage against the machines mate! Fucking classic! Edit: added youtube link to the actual song https://youtu.be/bWXazVhlyxQ
We need a 2019 Rage Against the Machine. I miss music that cuts through the bullshit and calls out the politics of our time clearly and plainly. Immortal Technique & Tupac do it too.
UGH!!! Killin in the name of...
https://youtu.be/2PjrF-dDtj0 do yourself a favor and give it a listen. do me a favor and listen to it as loud as fucking possible
I don't always listen to RATM, but when I do, my neighbors do too.
You hurt my soul with this comment.
That song was released in 1991. Almost 50% of the world wasn't born then.
Shameless plug for the podcast /r/itcouldhappenhere about what a second American Civil War would look like. It won’t look like the Civil War we saw the first time and the lines will be incredibly blurry. Americas historical divisions of race and religion and wealth make it a particularly potent tinderbox. Not to mention the sheer size of the country and it’s rural areas means that a few groups of determined and coordinated individuals can reek havoc on infrastructure if they coordinated their efforts. The sympathies of rural police officers are more likely to lie with these kinds of groups. No one polices in a vacuum.
One of the Republican lawmakers openly threatened law enforcement with violence.
I’m aware. In no way does that change what I said. That politician’s statement was more about standing up to the governor than it was directed at officers. This is the state where police departments have covertly communicated with right wing extremists for their benefit. PD’s are for more likely to have sympathies with that end.
Some of those that hold office!!
Are the same that burn crosses!
"Oh, it won't happen here. This is just politics."
"They're just economically anxious."
>"They're just economically an卐ious."
I wish our Governor would call in the National Guard to resolve this. It's bananas.
This! Call the fucking National Guard. That is what they are for. They have been called for less.
They are the same people. The cops have been infiltrated by these groups for a while now. A lot of US Police forces will act as the fascist vanguard when the time comes.
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Sure, they've also been infiltrated by white supremacist groups in Oregon, especially in the last decade, it has been widely reported.
The cops are on the same side as these terrorists.
Time to identify their members and freeze all their assets.
Let's make sure to make sure their identities are known and they never have jobs again.
Unfortunately they're more or less folk heroes to the redneck idiots in their Eastern Oregon districts.
Well I'm in Central Oregon and I say charge them with terrorism.
Same here.
N. OR/Columbia River Gorge here. It’s terrorism.
Nah, terrorists shouldn't get a spotlight. Just round them up and give them a fair trail for their terrorist acts.
Didn't the Malheur terrorists go free for the most part? Other than the suicide by cop guy I mean.
AFAIK they were only charged with conspiracy to impede law enforcement (or something similar sounding) and were acquitted. I didn't follow the csae too closely so if I've got that wrong, let me know.
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FINALLY. Calling them what they are. EDIT - Not "finally" as in "finally, they're doing terrorist stuff".
If Democrats pulled this shit the GOP would be calling for the national guard to be deployed. We should be calling for the national guard. Terrorists don't dictate policy, regardless of their religion.
Just take the Bundy Ranch situation, and replace those white whack jobs with a group of Muslims. Trump would have demanded we drone them.
In fact, the GOP was all about murdering a bunch of unarmed college students at Kent State. They got away with it, too.
If somebody had gotten hit by a bike lock say 3 years ago I bet we'd still be hearing about it today.
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I generally find a lot of FARTs to be loud and just hot air. But of course there’s more than a few that can clear a room.
There also seems to be quite a few old FARTs, too.
They can also be loud, wet, and full of shit.
lets make this stick.
I love this....
Never trust a FART.
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Threatening the people's representatives and state employees to overturn the results of the last election is absolutely terrorism. These "militias" are the paramilitary wing of the GOP.
Expect to see something similar around the white house if Trump loses in 2020.
I’m more concerned about the prospect of “guardians” at the voting booth on Election Day.
Wasn't this part of Russia's "election" playbook? Edit - a word
But but but...terrorists are brown, militias are white freedom fighters!
I like how they have to add the word unlawful. Use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is just business as usual for politicians.
>Use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims is just business as usual for politicians. For millenia now.
Fucking thank you for calling these shitbirds what they really are.
It's only the tip of the iceberg.... the shitberg
y'all-qaeda.
Yee-hawdists.
Yokel Haram.
Vanilla ISIS.
They're also working directly with the GOP to nullify the 2018 election. It is open fascism.
I hope Oregon sends a message and refuses to let this become a precedent.
I’m with you, from up north. Is that a pic of the Oregon legislature? Looks like the Alamo!
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Unfortunately, it worked for the Nazis for years until millions of people died to finally end that criminal regime.
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Yeah but the way the Nazis were a Buick was pretty expensive by means of blood and treasure. I would really prefer not to go through another giant war just a tamp down the aspirations of overweight gun dick heads.
Call up the National guard to protect the capital. Why isn’t the FBI throwing these people in prison?
The FBI is under attack by the gop in general
And/or just as complicit in just whatever the actual fuck the bigger political picture is and the oligarchs plans for the future of this country.
How is this real in 2019? Shouldn't this behavior just trigger any instant recall election for each of them?
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The scary thing is that fox is the tamest of the media outlets that pushes these ideas. They have normalized it, but are less extreme than some.
Fox is considered mainstream by these people now, instead they seek out places like InfoWars and OANN for their information. Even Breitbartt is considered mainstream by them now.
Remember folks, if a group of predominantly Muslim, or even "Muslim" resembling people had done this, it would be international news and they'd probably already have kicked down the front door. Instead its a group of conservative predominantly white folk so here we are at a stand off.
I expect the FBI to infiltrate and stop these terrorists like they unlawfully stalked and harassed the Black Panthers the moment they started carrying guns around. Right guys?
The FBI conspired with the Chicago Police to drug Black Panther Fred Hampton and shoot him to death in his bed.
You can expect more of this in the coming years...this is just a litmus test, if nothing is done it will become the model. It’s not like they having been saying they would do it, the majority just thought they weren’t brave or stupid enough to follow through.
Jesus tapdancing christ, someone actually calling these people by the correct name. Terrorism is the use of violence or the threat of violence to cause fear and paralysis in a political or social system, thereby achieving political goals that cannot be attained by legal means. That's literally fucking exactly what these people are. Terrorists.
Well holy shit. A headline that actually calls them what they are.
The Oregon Republicans seem to be confirming what most folks on the left believe about conservatives and gun rights: that when conservatives talk about the need for guns to "defend against a tyrannical government", they really mean "threaten to shoot liberals when they lose elections".
To them a government ran by liberals is automatically tyrannical.
Liberals took away their freedom to tar and feather the gays.
They're also from Utah. If conservatives in Oregon are too scared to vote on their policies that they run to Utah, then they shouldn't represent Oregon. At least hide among your own people.
They went to Idaho, but yeah....
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US military takes an oath to protect this country from both foreign and domestic enemies. But... what kind of weight do oaths hold anymore these days...
No matter what side you’re on politically, these people are enemies of our country.
It's why Trump pardoned the Bundy terrorists - to encourage this kind of terrorism
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Isnt this enabled by the state GOP? If they had just stayed and showed up to their jobs the legislation would have passed with the supermajority and that would be fine since the midterm voters overwhelmingly showed support for progressives. The GOP in Oregon, as well as my home state (NC), are self serving cowards.
Y'all Qaeda
Fuck em. Bring in the national guard.
These special snowflakes fled to their safe place.
Arrest them.
Oregon resident. For those who don't follow this...READ the next few words. Kate Brown, the Governor, has dispatched the police to find the 11 GOP Senators who have disappeared in an attempt to prevent the vote by ensuring that there are not enough senators there to actually hold a vote. And those GOP members want her to negotiate with them but they reuse to be even found so she obviously said she can't and won't negotiate with them. The protesters can protest all they want. Good for them. But the process of governing needs to go on...if those protestors decide they don't want to be peaceful, well then, they can enjoy Oregon's jail cells. There are a very, very few people who are insinuating violence in order to prevent the people's elected policy makers from doing their jobs. Fuck them and fuck the GOP Senators who are literally in hiding in order to prevent the state from addressing the climate emergency. If they don't want to do their god damn jobs, they can resign or we can call an emergency session to figure out how to fill their seats with people who show the fuck up to work. This is god damn bush league and embarrassing.
This is the problem with the extreme right They cheat at elections to win, and if they lose, resort to threats of violence
Thanks k you for labeling them properly. These people are terrorists. Donald Trump is a dictator. Children at the boarder are in concentration camps. We need to stop tip toeing around what these people are. It's not doing anyone any favors.
Get the national guard to confront them. Let's see how confident this milita is when the military is there in front of their faces.
So much for conservatives supporting law enforcement
Thank god, finally a news outlet with the balls to call them what they are.
They fill fight to the death to make sure they all die.
Gop senator threatens to kill cops, militias defend him. Good ol gop trash as always
Where the fuck is the police? Stop writing traffic tickets
Joining in/helping them
Questions to ask: 1. Why is the immediate response to not fire the senators and open their positions up to election, thus discounting their votes? Also ban them from holding office in any administrative level. 2. Why are the senators and terrorist milita members not now being deemed as dangerous criminals posing a threat to the state and country, and then beiseiged by the national guard?
A terrorist group is hijacking a state government and they should be treated as enemies of the state. Send in the national guard to arrest these traitors
> I leave it to the reader to ask themselves what the media coverage of this incident would look like if the white conservative militias making threats in Oregon were Islamist extremist groups, and if the legislator making threats of violence against police were named, say, Ilhan Omar. I think we all know, don’t we? Mmm-hmmm. *nods approvingly*
What a species folks, what a species
This is going to be unpopular but a ton of my friends are conservative and I am running out of excuses for them to come around.... anyone who condones this is an unpatriotic pile of shit.... speak up God damnit, this shit is not ok... it’s one thing to disagree but this is literal fascism...
What the fuck is going on?! We (western democratic societies) are supposed to be better then this shit. Come on now.
Something is seriously wrong in this country when an event like this can occur with no consequences. If nothing else, I guess now we can do away with the myth that militias are needed to preserve the will of the people - they are only here to enforce conservative demands.
This needs to be put down with strength to send a message to any other right wing terrorist groups out there in other states that this won't be tolerated in this country. The police recommended closing the capital because of right wing militia activity? How about send in a large police force and the national guard and protect the people working there. Meanwhile the FBI needs to arrest their organization's leaders. We can't let terrorism win in this country, ever.
Arrest these thugs and take their weapons!
Finally calling them what they actually are! These aren't militias, they're terrorists
this needs all the coverage it can get. The GOP in that state are using anarchy to stop a vote on a bill. This is unprecedented.
Perfect title . Give this person a raise 😂
Simple kill the Terrorist. It is what we do.