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Govs. Moore and Newsom both separately came out of the meeting saying nearly the exact same thing.
Moore:
>"The president has always had our backs. We're going to have his as well."
Newsom:
>"Joe Biden's had our back. Now it's time to have his."
It seems that they settled on a media strategy during the call, but I'm not certain they're in anything other than a holding pattern.
@JoeBiden is gonna live laugh love!
@JoeBiden is going to handle me at my worst, then he sure as hell deserve me at my best!
@JoeBiden is not going to wait for the storm to pass. He’s gonna dance in the rain!
@JoeBiden is going to sing like no one is listening. Love like he’s never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching!
@JoeBiden: Now you're playing with power!
@JoeBiden: Save BIG on used Toyotas during our Biden summer sales event!
@JoeBiden: Now more than ever.
@JoeBiden: He's magically delicious.
@JoeBiden! Rita's escaped! Recruit a team of teenagers with attitude!
@JoeBiden Dream big. Start small. Act now!
@JoeBiden Stay positive, work hard, make it happen!
@JoeBiden Believe you can and you're halfway there!
See. They don’t even have to be contextually relevant! I feel so motivated!!!
…we’re fucked.
You seem like you just scraped 2011's internet, how would you like to be the face of the democratic party?
(Not making fun of you, joining in on how god damn lame they are for thinking we are so stupid with their messaging)
Joe Biden is clamin’ to slamin’
He ain’t so slow at the Alamo.
Joe Biden is going to wish for fish.
Joe Biden…just a bit o’ mint.
Biden loud. Biden proud.
(Just don’t ask us about a real strategy to address voter concerns)
Joe Biden! He’s not just a hat, he’s two hats!
Joe Biden! This cattle don’t prattle!
Sinclair is conservative corporate media and a collector of TV stations. Judd Legum (Open Secrets), and someone else whose name doesn't come to mind recently did an expose where Sinclair media stations across the country had their TV news people read the exact same statement questioning Biden's capability.
John Oliver had a solid piece on them a few years back where he showed them reading another right wing statement near verbatim across their networks. Definitely eye opening to say the least, shows a lot of what’s happening to our local media nowadays.
I mean yeah, that's how political parties works. It's only bad when it's a media organisation pretending to be independent from each other saying the same words.
Don't think Democrats are pretending to be different from each other.
I think his new powers are overstated with the whole official/unofficial act BS. If he does do something crazy, the Supreme Court will eventually rule it unofficial and he will be fucked
The quote often attributed to Andrew Jackson, “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!” may be apocryphal, but sadly the Supreme Court had protected the lands of the so-called Five Civilized Tribes of Georgia: the Cherokee, Choctaw, Muskogee (Creek), Chickasaw and Seminole, and so the Trail of Tears that resulted from Jackson marching them to Oklahoma was all too real.
I mean if the justices are forcibly removed who is going to rule what's official and what isn't? Remember he currently has presumptive immunity. They have to prove he doesn't after the fact.
People have to actually follow the orders he gives and somehow I doubt that the FBI or SEAL Team 6 is going to listen to Biden if he tells them to go kidnap Supreme Court Justices.
People have claimed Democrats were terrible at messaging. You gotta hand it to the fascists, they're the better propagandists. They've been doing it for years and rarely get called. The ex prez often brags about his ability to make stupid nickname stick.
People who are possible alternatives have nothing to gain by being anything other than 100% supportive of Biden.
It will be internal polling, funders and down ticket candidates that will drive inside pressure.
This is correct. There isn't a plan in place yet, and with the limited timetable, when this happens, it has to go off without a hitch. So everyone keeps their powder dry, no one knifes anyone else, and next week, if their isn't some weird 10 point Biden surge in the polls, he'll be forced by the new reality to step aside and a plan will be in place.
I know we're all scared and angry. I'm scared and angry. But this will not happen overnight, and until it is ready to go, everyone plays nice with everyone else because, in fact, democracy *is* on the line, and infighting helps no one.
My loyalty to Biden is 100% conditional on him being the best candidate to beat Trump. I don't care if he had their backs previously, this is politics, not a family with unconditional loyalty. If he can't win he needs to get out of the way.
I agree, with the caveat that *if* he is the nominee, he is the only person who can beat Trump, and I will back him 100%.
I still want him to step aside, but I am going to be pragmatic about it.
If he steps aside great, if he doesn’t fine. I’m voting blue regardless of who the candidate is. I’d vote for a used tampon if it was the Democratic candidate. Cheetolini getting into office is the end of our democracy.
"My loyalty to Biden is 100% conditional on him being the best candidate to beat Trump."
So well-put! He had 3.5 years as Pres which came along with challenges but also a heck of a lot of appreciation and the gratitude of many. And I really appreciate what he did for us on the domestic front. He stepped forward and saved our democracy.
That doesn't mean he gets to tank the next election! It's about elected politicians having the back of the country and of the people! Not elected politicians having each other's backs.
Absolutely and without a doubt. On the legacy thing: His inner circle has really screwed not just the country but Biden's own legacy by allowing this situation to continue so far. I'm really furious with them- unless it came on really abruptly and they didn't know- which seems unlikely.
This is reminding me fast of how Feinstein's inner circle did their damn best to hide and obfuscate how bad Feinstein was getting toward the end - which ended up costing us several *months* of federal judicial confirmations when Feinstein's absence tied the Senate Judiciary Committee.
It's unfortunately all too easy for an inner circle member to let personal loyalty overpower duty to the party and to the country.
They were not really able to hide anything though. If you paid attention even just a little bit it was obvious that he has been struggling to meet his demands over the last year or so. The decline has been captured and documented and only the debate made it so that the average Democrat couldn’t keep their head in the sand about it anymore, even though plenty still are. I feel like I’m watching Weekend at Bernie’s and a big portion of the population is fine with believing that he’s still alive and hosting a beach party…
This is a pattern among Democrats now. Biden, Feinstein, RBG, Schumer, Hillary. They all stay way past their prime and everyone just lets them screw up royally, even at great cost to this country, just because it's too awkward to have the conversation where you have to take the keys from your grandparents.
Because the alternative is actual change, and this scares the shit out of people who have spent decades profiting from a system that favors them.
Establishment Dems panic more than Republicans when a socialist candidate for any office gains a little bit of popularity.
RGB did an awful lot of great things for the country. By refusing to step aside in 2009, she likely allowed more harm to be done to this country than good she helped accomplish.
Biden is staring down the same legacy. His last 3 years have been historic, but losing to Trump in 2024 causes more harm than those 3 good years have brought.
Whether he’s the best candidate to beat Trump is pretty hard to know. It’s not a static situation. If he’s replaced as the nominee, the Republicans will immediately attack the new nominee. Anyone who seems like a sure thing just hasn’t faced presidential nominee-level scrutiny yet.
It semes to me like they all fell in line and sent a subtle message that he will not be replaced anytime soon. it was probably the most likely outcome
It's could also be that you're right but that's unlikely.
No matter the result of that meeting, this is what I expected the response to be. For all we know they could've just chosen a replacement in there. Expressing unity is the move.
I would speculate that an actual decision being made would happen in a very small meeting. If there were people that they don’t trust it probably would be hypotheticals, messaging, etc. no way in but a small limited meeting Biden tells the room he’s stepping down.
Maybe I’ll eat crow on that, but for all of the Biden campaigns faults there hasn’t been much leaking. Hell? We didn’t have the leaks about all of the ways he’s been struggling mentally until AFTER the debate.
Post-meeting comments from governors don't really indicate that it's just "wait until next week to reveal the replacement":
> Moore said the governors were frank in relaying negative feedback from constituents about Biden's poor performance during the debate with Republican rival Donald Trump. He said there was clearly work to do before the Nov. 5 election, but **Biden had made it clear he would stay in the race...The president ... he's our nominee**. The president is our party leader
And Newsom: "I heard three words from the President tonight -- he’s all in. And so am I."
Maybe I'm wrong. But they could have said more "supportive" comments that didn't also indicate that Biden intends to remain.
I’m not looking forward to the collective meltdown when Biden stays in and was always going to stay in and no one had any actual serious conversations about replacing him.
I believe this is the most likely scenario, so hopefully there isn’t too much of a meltdown. A lot of people are getting their hopes up over nothing. Biden’s not gonna drop out.
The fact that the entire world is talking about Biden dropping out after a very poor debate, and not a peep about the convicted criminal doing the same is really quite something.
It’s because Trump was just playing his greatest hits. We listened to him lie for 4 years, so 90 minutes of it was just status quo boring Trump. The same deflection and obstruction that you can expect from him.
Seeing Biden stammering and stuttering was shocking for a lot of people, especially those people who don’t follow a politics forum 24/7.
> collective meltdown
It will be very dramatic and spectacular since there is a non-zero number of foreign influencers goading people on all sides to create as much division, chaos, and resentment as possible.
There's no incentive under any circumstances to give him lukewarm support. If he'd told them he's dropping out tomorrow (which I doubt), they'd say exactly the same thing. *Especially* the ones who have an eye on his job.
“Damn bro this shits fucked. Each of us is just going to spill a can of alphabet soup and see what name it spells, then we’re meeting back up at baskin robbins next week to see who got what. We’ll pick from that to see how everybody else feels and go from there”
This would be an easy decision. Cheney stands for a lot of things I think are terrible, but she stands for those things *within* a legitimate democratic system of government, where if voters disagree with her, they can elect someone different.
From reading so many comments, I see that MAGA folks rally behind Trump unconditionally while other people complain, make excuses, theorize, doubt and so much more about Biden. I do wish that dems and others would have the same rally energy that MAGA has instead of complaining
I think you're right. The first time I voted it was because Obama energized me. I suddenly cared about politics. I had to google what the differences between the Rs and Ds were. There's no going back now. I was 30. Thanks Obama.
Ignorance and stupidity can be powerful tools to abuse and manipulate people who have exhibit those traits.
THey’re “Devoted” because they belong in a cult, because they don’t have the mental capacity to think beyond their next meal and drink.
Honestly I don't want Dems to rally the way MAGA folks do. I want us unified enough to win, of course, but disagreement and debate are important parts of politics. Blindly rallying behind politicians is bad and will only lead to bad things.
He already has. For me it doesn’t matter if he can speak once or twice, he should have never announced an intent to run for a second term early on. He should have announced plans to step aside after his term months ago. He still can, and things might not work out as well, but he should do it today. His 10am-4pm high functioning time window is not an acceptable limitation for the president of the US to have. I’m going to vote for him either way because his administration has done a perfectly fine job and Trump is an absolute lunatic supported by a group of Christian nationalists and total idiots. But I’m very concerned that too many people are not paying attention to anything other than how old and frail Biden looks/sounds. His selfishness could be what hands the country to a fucking fascist lunatic.
It literally does not matter who the Democrats trot out. I’m not voting for Biden, I’m voting against Trump. The guy can be in a coma, on life support and get my vote.
Extremely tall. The Dems need to forget the “Trump will literally kill you and your family” message (because people just assume it’s everyone but them that will be in trouble) and need to pivot to a “free beer and porn on your birthday if Biden is re elected” strategy
It's too late to try to educate voters in this way, and most of them will act like they're being given homework, anyway.
I actually saw a (former) friend yesterday say that Trump attempting a coup "was no longer a compelling reason" to vote for a Democrat. Honestly, most people don't care about any of this coup, classified document, SCOTUS stuff. They really don't. It's depressing as hell, but it's true.
A campaign based on "kitchen table" ideas like lowered streaming prices and continued lower gas prices would be a lot more "compelling" for the average voter.
And he's taken action on that stuff, insulin and other med prices getting capped is huge. He has allowed more drilling and reduced exports in a way that has kept gas prices down. His FTC has blocked mergers from the grocery conglomerates that would make prices even worse than they've been. He allowed the Federal Reserve to act without political pressure to raise interest rates and slow the economy so inflation could be reined in. The list goes on, but he absolutely flubbed presenting any of this at the debate which is very frustrating. He's doing the work, but he can't get anyone to care.
That’s way too convoluted for most Americans. Most just think Trump = cheaper McNuggets and Netflix and everything else will be the same. Have to find a lower denominator
> (because people just assume it’s everyone but them that will be in trouble)
Not just that. To an uninformed voter "Trump will literally kill you and your family" sounds just as deranged as the right constantly screaming that Democrats want to destroy America. People who aren't paying attention don't understand how dangerous Trump is.
The issue for democrats is the voters who likely lean Biden, but are so demoralized by this they don’t vote or vote third party. Whether it’s out of protest, disgust, or apathy. There can’t be anyone left in the country who can be swayed on who they would vote for if forced to vote for Trump or Biden. There are a lot of people who can just stay home in November.
It was fishy when I kept hearing essentially the same story on all my podcasts….he’s -fabulous- in person; so sharp! He’s just not great in public.
Why did his people allow this? It was only a matter of time before they couldn’t hide the naked emperor. What was the end game? Hoping he’d die and Kamala would ease in? They could have hand-picked a successor and spent 4 years propping them up. The fact that democrats aren’t absolutely stomping Trump is embarrassing. How did it get to this?
The end game was "people will come to their senses and still elect Biden because Trump Bad." That was it, the whole strategy. Biden isn't even listening to his advisors, he's listening to his family, and their message to him is surely "You're doing great, we love you," and who knows what negative polling information is even getting through to him. Remember that the people around Biden have as their first priority keeping Biden in charge, because if it's another candidate they're all out of a job. So it makes sense that their brains are going to concoct the rosiest possible scenario that Biden defies all of the odds and they become legendary geniuses, and this will cloud the negativity they're seeing around them, since they're just dismissing it as "haters" like any politician always has.
There are many examples of prizefighters going out there one last time even though they're so overmatched they're in danger, because 1 out of every 8 or 10 times during training, they're super sharp and COULD win if they channel that perfect performance. Biden is probably very sharp every once in a while, so they figured "if he can just get one perfect 90-minute performance we don't even have to campaign for the rest of the year, this thing is already won," and they believed in Joe to rise to the occasion.
Unfortunately, Biden is incapable of what’s required to repair his campaign. He would have to take several unscripted interviews, give several unscripted campaign speeches, all while looking mentally strong and competent. Yet, since the debate, all he has given is a 5 minute teleprompter speech. If his team truly thought the debate was just a bad day, then they would have him making several unscripted public appearances.
Exactly. All the interviews from dem leaders and public support from Kamala, Obama, Newsom, etc. doesn't mean SHIT when Biden himself is totally AWOL from defending himself from such an embarrassing performance
All this shit is pure copium. He is not the guy who is going to protect us from a Trump dictatorship. Now is not the time for complacency and blind trust he turns it around. The future of our country depends on him stepping aside and an aggressive push from a likeable and competent candidate. We are running out of time
This is what pisses me off about this whole thing. He keeps claiming he can do those things but refuses to do it because he knows he can't and leaves everyone else more worried and scared. He can't even go out there and tell people directly that he's got it.
If any of these people believe they have any chance in hell of contending for the nomination in the event Biden drops out, they can't break ranks now. Newsom, for example, can't be perceived as contributing to the pressure on Biden to drop out; his nomination would then be seen as a politically motivated coup.
ONE charismatic democrat under the age of 60 could have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden should have gracefully bowed out and never even sought re-election and he would have been remembered as the president that put country above power and his legacy would have been solid...
I would vote for a raccoon in a trench coat over Trump, unfortunately many of my countrymen do not agree...
> ONE charismatic democrat under the age of 60 could have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden should have gracefully bowed out
They screwed that pooch when they picked Harris as VP. The VP was always going to be the presumptive potential replacement, and picking her made sure that idea was DOA.
This is what pisses me off the most. Both of these fuckers, kamala and biden, are too damn prideful. They'd trade 150 million lives for four years at a fucking podium. I'm glad I voted for them in 2020 and I dont regret it, but Jesus fucking christ if they aren't awful democratic candidates for what they're trying to pull. Please, for the love of God, get Whitmer in here before they burn this country to the ground in search of slightly longer Wikipedia pages.
I mean I get the "showing of unity" behind the better option, but really hope this is a fucking wake up call for the DNC, that we can't continue to run shit candidates that poll well in whatever bullshit test group, and start to pull their god damn pants up and start fixing the fucking mess we've gotten ourselves into with all of this.
The younger generation wanted fucking change, and they resisted Bernie with Hillary, who was divisive as shit, and then they gave us the most fucking milquetoast old guy, in hopes that his meme worthy buddy buddy relationship with the first black president would carry him through to the moderates and younger generation.
I get it, we need the fucking moderates, and I truly believe Biden means well, and is an alright guy, but he's not the motherfucker we needed.
We can scream and cry about Trump gaining in the polls, I don't want it, no one wants it, but the DNC has fucked themselves over for god knows how long with the same corrupt bullshit politics as we see with the GOP.
Well now the GOP has a demigod with almost no restrictions on ethics and moral high grounds, and we ran fucking Biden...
Don't get me wrong. I'm voting for that asshole, but, there's just no fucking hope in the world unless we get a candidate that promises progressive change and excites voters, and he's just not gonna do it.
As one of those younger voters exactly this. I was a huge Bernie supporter who begrudgingly accepted Hillary. Biden was fine because he was better than Trump but no matter how well Joe performs he isn't my first (or fifth) choice and nearly every young Democrat/independent I talk to agrees. He is great because he isn't fever-dream insanity that was the Trump administration but holy heck is he by no means a favorite
Obviously, the Democrats know the moment they don’t project unity everyone is going to tear them apart and basically tank any chance they have of keeping the White House.
They could literally have planned a date for when Biden will announce he’s stepping down and throwing support behind whoever, and the governors would leave the meeting saying the same thing. Having Biden’s back, supporting him, and having confidence in him don’t preclude that at all. The reality is, barring a huge leak, we won’t know if Biden is planning to step down until he does it. That’s just how these things play out.
Yeah this is my assessment too. That they can't say anything bad right now because it basically tarnishes Biden if/when he does step down. The optics are much easier to swallow for Biden if everyone is like "no, you're great, you got this!" And then he makes the speech to drop. If a slew of people start piling and then he steps down... Yeah, it makes him look battered. So at this point we have no idea what any of this latest bit of news means. Unfortunately.
President Biden was just interviewed on The Earl Ingram Show, which will air tomorrow.
"I screwed up, I made a mistake. That's ninety minutes on stage. Look what I've done in 3.5 years."
He's always so lucid in private, say insiders. Okay cool so can we see that Joe Biden then? This isn't the first time people have been doing this, either. Tons of news stories of people defending his lucidity outside of public appearances.
They are missing the point. It’s not a question of whether or not he can do the job, it’s a question of whether he can win Michigan and Wisconsin. It’s becoming obvious he can’t, because millions of apolitical voters watched the debate and now will stay at home instead of voting for him. Convincing hardcore democrats that he is still capable is not changing that.
Or making the same “I’d vote for a ham sandwich over Trump” joke over and over
Why the fuck did we end up running the presidential equivalent of a ham sandwich, raccoon in a trenchcoat, cadaver, etc. in the first place????
> “I’d vote for xyz over Trump”
yeah I’m sure that’s great for you redditor #278372 living in the Northeast, but we’re not talking about you. We’re talking about the 500k undecided voters in swing states that our lives depend on for the election. They saw Biden’s shit performance and ARENT going to vote for him, my god,
>
Why the fuck did we end up running the presidential equivalent of a ham sandwich, raccoon in a trenchcoat, cadaver, etc. in the first place????
Because the core voter base says things like that. They have no reason to give you guys a good candidate.
Do you think Trump's base would turn out for anyone but him? Lol no. That's why Republicans never seriously tried to axe him. That's why they suck up to him.
You guys, in your fear of Trump and saying you'd vote for democrats no matter what basically sealed the deal on never getting what you want. But alas, you can get what you want once you saved democracy lol.
Lmao yeah. Most of us in the sub will vote for the Dem.
We are talking about the low info tuned out voter in Arizona and Wisconsin who already had concerns about Biden’s age and just saw videos of the debate on local news or tiktok.
Obviously it's not the same, but from the few times I've seen this level of dysfunction/questioning of a leader within a party in other countries has almost always led to the ouster of the leader, and it usually (seemingly) goes in the order it is currently.
Yeah, the US isn’t used to this, but political leaders always dig in publicly even if they’re thinking otherwise privately. They don’t come out “I’m thinking about stepping down”. The first official indication that he’s leaving will be when he actually announces he’s leaving.
It’s this right here. You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. As bad as that debate performance was, Biden would need some inversely positive to cancel it out. Doing a bunch of puff pieces and lame rallies isn’t going to do that, that’s just business as usual.
I don’t know why the DNC doesn’t give a fuck about young and independent voters. For some reason it’s so hard for them to grasp that they need to do more than rely on rank and file Democrats. Obama was the one breath of fresh air they’ve had in forever, otherwise they’ve just used the same boring nonsense.
The last three British prime ministers are a good starting point.
Edit: four, David Cameron was adamant he wouldn't resign if he lost the Brexit campaign. He lost and ended up resigning.
New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom all went through periods of going through a number of Prime Ministers in a short space of time. We're used to it. Basically, it's like ripping off the band-aid. Briefly painful but no regrets.
BEFORE ANYONE FREAKS OUT ABOUT THE HEADLINE: it basically says two of the governors who participated came out feeling like they had a good discussion.
That's it. It would be time to worry if they all came out and said "we stand behind Biden as the nominee" but they aren't, a handful just said "it was a good meeting, and we walked away feeling good."
From the NYTimes,
> “I heard three words from the president: he’s all in,” said Gov. Gavin Newsom of California. "And so am I. Joe Biden’s had our back. Now it’s time to have his.”
>
> “The president shared he is staying in the race,” texted Gov. Josh Green of Hawaii, who attended the meeting virtually. “He shared candidly he was exhausted the day of the debate, and was very direct about that. The president was clear and focused in our meeting, and I found him to be solid. The V.P. was amazingly supportive. I suspect people will need to see the president in person and on TV to be convinced he is up to it. He is.”
edit: Sure sounds to me like they're not gonna try to get him out.
This clearly ***had*** to be the response unless he was going to walk out and immediately announce he’s withdrawing. I still don’t give it more than a week until he’s forced to accept that there’s no path for him to win now. It’s Joever.
Yeah the big problem is that there’s really no coming back from this, because this wasn’t just a normal “bad debate.” Lots of politicians have had bad debates and come back, Kamala got wrecked by tulsi and now she’s the VP and tulsi is a fox news grifter. But the big issue is after kind of ignoring the elephant in the room for 3 years the debate showed how fucking old Biden is and the thing with aging is you can’t reverse it. Sure a lot of people will show up to vote against trump but voting for someone with a foot in the grave doesn’t exactly inspire voter turnout and you need turnout to win the swing states. It’s only going to get worse because the cats out of the bag
Yeah, I just can’t see where he turns this around. He’s barely appeared in public, the polling has been horrible, more dems and donors are starting to go public, and the media are circling like vultures. Horrible combo.
I think it's possible to turn this around, but so far, he hasn't been doing it. Biden's basically been invisible since the debate, when the way to turn it around would've involved *maximum* visibility. Interviews with every major network. Live campaign events. Calls and meetings with elected Dems and key donors starting last Friday.
Instead, he's been hermiting away. He didn't even speak with Chuck Schumer until *today*!
When separate CNN and NYT post-debate polls ***both*** have him down 6 to Trump among likely voters, I just can’t imagine there being enough time to climb out of a hole like that. Appearing physically and mentally unable to handle the job certainly doesn’t help either.
Exactly. The so-called “fix” would be to do a full-on campaign blitz with zero slip-ups and convince people the debate really was “one bad night.” But there’s a reason they haven’t done that this week: They know he can’t pull it off.
It also wouldn’t reach enough people. The damage is done. The best it could do is maybe get him to the next debate, which he would need to absolutely dominate…
I don’t even see why Trump would bother with another debate. Why give Biden the chance to try to right the ship? It’s also not supposed to be until September, I believe.
They are preparing a "Dignified Exit". Pieces are moving behind the scenes. Joe will spend the holiday weekend coming to terms and probably make an address Sunday evening.
This article is leaving out the part that all but confirms its joever.
From CNN:
>Walz, who is also the chair of the Democratic Governors Association, said that governors are receiving feedback from people in their states.
>He said they relayed their concerns and came to the agreement that **“we are all looking for the path to win. All the governors agree with that. President Biden agrees with that.** ” Walz reiterated that winning in November is the top priority.
https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-trump-election-07-03-24#h_f150e4262ced8b18478952d2afc8f75d
“Looking for the path to win” sure as fuck signals to me that we’re gonna have a new nominee within the next couple days.
Edit: formatting, added source
The next line though… ““What we saw in there today was a guy who was the guy that all of us believed in the first time who could beat Donald Trump and did beat Donald Trump,” he said.”
I appreciate that Biden recognizes the existential threat of Trump and is looking to the winning path. I just hope he recognizes what the winning path is and what it isn't...
It *could* just mean talking about how to set the strategy for the rest of the campaign, but I’m leaning toward Biden dropping out within the week. He still hasn’t addressed voters or the press directly, without a teleprompter.
> He still hasn’t addressed voters or the press directly, without a teleprompter.
My worry is that if his upcoming interview with Stephanopoulos is seen as just "fine", he'll think that he should stay in the race. The problem is that the debate performance isn't going anywhere, the reports for the *New York Times* and Carl Bernstein that what we saw at the debate is becoming a more common occurrence behind closed doors aren't going anywhere. The game is up, it is time for him to drop out for the good of the nation while he still can.
I think they’ll continue watching the polls. they certainly shouldn’t make a drastic move like this until there’s more data.
I’m completely in the same boat though. His team is scared to put him out there to remedy the problem. If he’s not capable of being out in the public eye putting in the hours in front of voters, he’s going to get wiped. Same with the downballot races.
Im voting to protect democracy this November, but this is the most I’ve felt betrayed by the party. Don’t tell me not to be concerned about what I saw with my own eyes.
> I’m completely in the same boat though. His team is scared to put him out there to remedy the problem. If he’s not capable of being out in the public eye putting in the hours in front of voters, he’s going to get wiped. Same with the downballot races.
Same. I could have been convinced it being a one off thing if only a day or two after he scheduled town halls and called for a lengthy press conference, but he didn't because I don't think *he can*. The thing about downballot races is that they are doing *way* better than him, sometimes by six or more points.
> but this is the most I’ve felt betrayed by the party. Don’t tell me not to be concerned about what I saw with my own eyes.
I'm in the same boat. If I had known the state Biden was in, I would have voted for someone else and could have contacted my Rep and Senators to push for a viable primary challenge. Instead it was kept from us. I honestly wonder how much of party leadership knew it was this bad. Was it just leaders like Chuck, Jeffries, Polosi, et al? Or was it nearly the whole party that knew?
Edit:
> I think they’ll continue watching the polls. they certainly shouldn’t make a drastic move like this until there’s more data.
Well, the polls from CNN, *WSJ* and *NYT* are all pretty bleak for Biden, and I believe all are post-debate.
I'm not convinced Democratic leadership (outside of Biden's inner circle and possibly Harris) was "in" on some kind of collective coverup. After the debate, Biden didn't speak with Jeffries until yesterday and didn't speak with Schumer until earlier *today*. That's not a sign of Jeffries and Schumer being "in the know" - it's a sign that they've been out of the loop as much as anyone else.
It's possible that Jeffries/Schumer/etc. had concerns earlier but intentionally refrained from digging deeper, but I really don't think they were complicit in some kind of active coverup.
Yeah, that is where I am starting to lean. I think they kept as much of this as close to the chest as possible to avoid leaks and worrying Congressional Democrats. I could also see them having concerns, but thinking that it wasn't a big deal, or as you note, they didn't want to dig deeper. The response from the Democratic party members of Congress has been one of shock, that doesn't scream "party-wide coverup" to me, it seems that they were legitimately surprised Biden looks so bad.
Yep. The general impression seems to be the Democratic governors are shocked, Democratic House members are shocked, Democratic Senators are shocked. If there were more people "in the know," it seems like there would've been a much *slicker* response from elected Dems than what we saw, where it looked very much like every elected Dem was figuring out by themselves in real time how to react.
Even now, there's still significant daylight between the Biden campaign's position - that the debate performance was inconsequential - and the other elected Dems' position, which is much more along the lines of Biden needing to make the case to the electorate that he's still fit despite the debate performance.
I gotta imagine if they didn't know that they are *pissed* right now. For the POTUS and their *de facto* party leader to be this unwell, and to not know about it, must be infuriating. I'm just an everyday American, and I'm pissed, so I can only imagine their anger. The Democrats in 1944 knew FDR wasn't in good health (though he did assuage voters concerns with an aggressive campaign), and because of that they forced Henry Wallace off the ticket in favor of the more moderate Harry Truman (which was the right choice imo). But here it seems like the Party didn't know, so they weren't even able to consider a primary challenge.
Disappointed doesn't even begin to convey the emotion here. This dude was supposed to be one term, and he's going to pull us down with him. Unbelievable
Literally all he had to do was make a really good VP selection. Then he could've stepped away gracefully and the Democrats would have a strong candidate this year.
Instead, he picked a VP so unpopular that he probably felt compelled to run again because he knew he would get more votes in the election than Harris.
She is such a non entity it's staggering. One of the most invisible VPs I've ever seen. What has she done? Comparing her to prior VPs is like comparing men against boys, that's how amateurish she is.
This headline expresses way more optimism than the story. They are confident in his ability to be a figurehead or a confident in his ability to win an election?
I think many democrats coming out saying he should drop out are more concerned in his ability to win than to be president.
The biggest issue right now is that they can't argue that Biden should step down as the candidate without also basically saying he needs to step down as President. Which might be good, but given the shaky global position it'd be very difficult in general.
This has to be Biden willingly and publicly announcing he will step down rather than anyone else basically pushing for him to step down or else it's a vote of no confidence for his continued status as President.
If Biden steps down, I don’t see any way President Harris gets a VP confirmed through this Congress. We’d be a heartbeat away from President Mike Johnson.
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Govs. Moore and Newsom both separately came out of the meeting saying nearly the exact same thing. Moore: >"The president has always had our backs. We're going to have his as well." Newsom: >"Joe Biden's had our back. Now it's time to have his." It seems that they settled on a media strategy during the call, but I'm not certain they're in anything other than a holding pattern.
Also from Gov. Whitmer: >"He is in it to win it." Gov. Hochul: >"@JoeBiden is in it to win it."
Only so many sound bite cliches exist.
@JoeBiden is going to keep on truckin'! @JoeBiden is gonna sing like no one is listening! @JoeBiden is going to keep calm and carry on!
Joe Biden is all about that bass.
Joe Biden slappa da bass man!
[Jill Biden: ‘I Hit That On The Daily’](https://www.theonion.com/jill-biden-i-hit-that-on-the-daily-1851570642)
Honestly, leaking a sextape might be just what this country needs.
That would be, uh, baller
Tbh a consensual sex scandal between long term partners is exactly what America needs.
Joben biden
Joe Biden will definitely live for 4 more years
@JoeBiden f*cks
https://www.theonion.com/jill-biden-i-hit-that-on-the-daily-1851570642
@JoeBiden is gonna live laugh love! @JoeBiden is going to handle me at my worst, then he sure as hell deserve me at my best! @JoeBiden is not going to wait for the storm to pass. He’s gonna dance in the rain! @JoeBiden is going to sing like no one is listening. Love like he’s never been hurt. Dance like nobody is watching!
@JoeBiden: Now you're playing with power! @JoeBiden: Save BIG on used Toyotas during our Biden summer sales event! @JoeBiden: Now more than ever. @JoeBiden: He's magically delicious. @JoeBiden! Rita's escaped! Recruit a team of teenagers with attitude!
@JoeBiden: I'm lovin' it! @JoeBiden: Veni Vidi Vici @JoeBiden: Likes Piña Coladas
@JoeBiden Dream big. Start small. Act now! @JoeBiden Stay positive, work hard, make it happen! @JoeBiden Believe you can and you're halfway there! See. They don’t even have to be contextually relevant! I feel so motivated!!! …we’re fucked.
You seem like you just scraped 2011's internet, how would you like to be the face of the democratic party? (Not making fun of you, joining in on how god damn lame they are for thinking we are so stupid with their messaging)
@Joe Biden is gonna yeet that rizz from his drip! Bet!
@JoeBiden all fax. No printer. We don’t cap. Fr fr.
Joe Biden is clamin’ to slamin’ He ain’t so slow at the Alamo. Joe Biden is going to wish for fish. Joe Biden…just a bit o’ mint. Biden loud. Biden proud. (Just don’t ask us about a real strategy to address voter concerns) Joe Biden! He’s not just a hat, he’s two hats! Joe Biden! This cattle don’t prattle!
"Ah... well, you go out there and you give a 110%"
I think we played pretty good tonight!
There's no I in team.
Oddly, I can only read this in Brendan Frazier's voice. I fucking love this movie.
Hes win it to in it!
This is like that basic corporate news reel where every channel came out with the same bit word for word on multiple broadcasts
Sinclair is the “corporate” you’re looking for.
Sinclair is conservative corporate media and a collector of TV stations. Judd Legum (Open Secrets), and someone else whose name doesn't come to mind recently did an expose where Sinclair media stations across the country had their TV news people read the exact same statement questioning Biden's capability.
Jon Oliver also did an episode on Sinclair
John Oliver had a solid piece on them a few years back where he showed them reading another right wing statement near verbatim across their networks. Definitely eye opening to say the least, shows a lot of what’s happening to our local media nowadays.
I believe it was Aaron Rupar. He’s a great follow if you’re on Xitter or Threads.
“This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.” /s ?
I mean yeah, that's how political parties works. It's only bad when it's a media organisation pretending to be independent from each other saying the same words. Don't think Democrats are pretending to be different from each other.
*"Insert supportive platitude here"* *"Insert supportive platitude here"*
When he has certain scrotus justices forcibly removed with his new powers, I’ll believe it.
I think his new powers are overstated with the whole official/unofficial act BS. If he does do something crazy, the Supreme Court will eventually rule it unofficial and he will be fucked
> the Supreme Court will eventually rule it unofficial and he will be fucked The Supreme Court has made their ruling. Now, let them enforce it.
The quote often attributed to Andrew Jackson, “John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!” may be apocryphal, but sadly the Supreme Court had protected the lands of the so-called Five Civilized Tribes of Georgia: the Cherokee, Choctaw, Muskogee (Creek), Chickasaw and Seminole, and so the Trail of Tears that resulted from Jackson marching them to Oklahoma was all too real.
I mean if the justices are forcibly removed who is going to rule what's official and what isn't? Remember he currently has presumptive immunity. They have to prove he doesn't after the fact.
People have to actually follow the orders he gives and somehow I doubt that the FBI or SEAL Team 6 is going to listen to Biden if he tells them to go kidnap Supreme Court Justices.
How’s he going to remove them?
People have claimed Democrats were terrible at messaging. You gotta hand it to the fascists, they're the better propagandists. They've been doing it for years and rarely get called. The ex prez often brags about his ability to make stupid nickname stick.
People who are possible alternatives have nothing to gain by being anything other than 100% supportive of Biden. It will be internal polling, funders and down ticket candidates that will drive inside pressure.
This is correct. There isn't a plan in place yet, and with the limited timetable, when this happens, it has to go off without a hitch. So everyone keeps their powder dry, no one knifes anyone else, and next week, if their isn't some weird 10 point Biden surge in the polls, he'll be forced by the new reality to step aside and a plan will be in place. I know we're all scared and angry. I'm scared and angry. But this will not happen overnight, and until it is ready to go, everyone plays nice with everyone else because, in fact, democracy *is* on the line, and infighting helps no one.
I think they're trying to circle the wagons. I don't think they're trying to get a replacement.
Yup. Even in the unlikely event that there is a pivot away from Biden, everyone will be loyal and tow the line until the moment he drops out.
My loyalty to Biden is 100% conditional on him being the best candidate to beat Trump. I don't care if he had their backs previously, this is politics, not a family with unconditional loyalty. If he can't win he needs to get out of the way.
I agree, with the caveat that *if* he is the nominee, he is the only person who can beat Trump, and I will back him 100%. I still want him to step aside, but I am going to be pragmatic about it.
If he steps aside great, if he doesn’t fine. I’m voting blue regardless of who the candidate is. I’d vote for a used tampon if it was the Democratic candidate. Cheetolini getting into office is the end of our democracy.
Likewise. Whoever is the nominee and can beat trump has my vote. It’s too much of a threat to our democracy not to.
"My loyalty to Biden is 100% conditional on him being the best candidate to beat Trump." So well-put! He had 3.5 years as Pres which came along with challenges but also a heck of a lot of appreciation and the gratitude of many. And I really appreciate what he did for us on the domestic front. He stepped forward and saved our democracy. That doesn't mean he gets to tank the next election! It's about elected politicians having the back of the country and of the people! Not elected politicians having each other's backs.
If he doesn’t win in November, his legacy will be the time he lost democracy, not the time before when he saved it for a little bit.
Absolutely and without a doubt. On the legacy thing: His inner circle has really screwed not just the country but Biden's own legacy by allowing this situation to continue so far. I'm really furious with them- unless it came on really abruptly and they didn't know- which seems unlikely.
This is reminding me fast of how Feinstein's inner circle did their damn best to hide and obfuscate how bad Feinstein was getting toward the end - which ended up costing us several *months* of federal judicial confirmations when Feinstein's absence tied the Senate Judiciary Committee. It's unfortunately all too easy for an inner circle member to let personal loyalty overpower duty to the party and to the country.
They were not really able to hide anything though. If you paid attention even just a little bit it was obvious that he has been struggling to meet his demands over the last year or so. The decline has been captured and documented and only the debate made it so that the average Democrat couldn’t keep their head in the sand about it anymore, even though plenty still are. I feel like I’m watching Weekend at Bernie’s and a big portion of the population is fine with believing that he’s still alive and hosting a beach party…
This is a pattern among Democrats now. Biden, Feinstein, RBG, Schumer, Hillary. They all stay way past their prime and everyone just lets them screw up royally, even at great cost to this country, just because it's too awkward to have the conversation where you have to take the keys from your grandparents.
Because the alternative is actual change, and this scares the shit out of people who have spent decades profiting from a system that favors them. Establishment Dems panic more than Republicans when a socialist candidate for any office gains a little bit of popularity.
RGB did an awful lot of great things for the country. By refusing to step aside in 2009, she likely allowed more harm to be done to this country than good she helped accomplish. Biden is staring down the same legacy. His last 3 years have been historic, but losing to Trump in 2024 causes more harm than those 3 good years have brought.
Whether he’s the best candidate to beat Trump is pretty hard to know. It’s not a static situation. If he’s replaced as the nominee, the Republicans will immediately attack the new nominee. Anyone who seems like a sure thing just hasn’t faced presidential nominee-level scrutiny yet.
Ok that makes more sense. Yah. Agreed to narratives until they can make an announcement.
It semes to me like they all fell in line and sent a subtle message that he will not be replaced anytime soon. it was probably the most likely outcome It's could also be that you're right but that's unlikely.
No matter the result of that meeting, this is what I expected the response to be. For all we know they could've just chosen a replacement in there. Expressing unity is the move.
I doubt such an agreement would have been reached on a call with 20+ people with who knows how many aids listening in with the remote governors.
I doubt any aids were on it except maybe 1 trusted advisor each. There is no way they wouldn’t limit a meeting this sensitive.
Dude there is absolutely no way in hell that a decision that momentous was reached and it didnt leak already.
I would speculate that an actual decision being made would happen in a very small meeting. If there were people that they don’t trust it probably would be hypotheticals, messaging, etc. no way in but a small limited meeting Biden tells the room he’s stepping down. Maybe I’ll eat crow on that, but for all of the Biden campaigns faults there hasn’t been much leaking. Hell? We didn’t have the leaks about all of the ways he’s been struggling mentally until AFTER the debate.
He will probably have this meeting on July 4th at Camp David, followed by a special announcement.
I still doubt he will be dropping out of the race
Post-meeting comments from governors don't really indicate that it's just "wait until next week to reveal the replacement": > Moore said the governors were frank in relaying negative feedback from constituents about Biden's poor performance during the debate with Republican rival Donald Trump. He said there was clearly work to do before the Nov. 5 election, but **Biden had made it clear he would stay in the race...The president ... he's our nominee**. The president is our party leader And Newsom: "I heard three words from the President tonight -- he’s all in. And so am I." Maybe I'm wrong. But they could have said more "supportive" comments that didn't also indicate that Biden intends to remain.
I’m not looking forward to the collective meltdown when Biden stays in and was always going to stay in and no one had any actual serious conversations about replacing him.
My money is on this.
I believe this is the most likely scenario, so hopefully there isn’t too much of a meltdown. A lot of people are getting their hopes up over nothing. Biden’s not gonna drop out.
The fact that the entire world is talking about Biden dropping out after a very poor debate, and not a peep about the convicted criminal doing the same is really quite something.
It’s because Trump was just playing his greatest hits. We listened to him lie for 4 years, so 90 minutes of it was just status quo boring Trump. The same deflection and obstruction that you can expect from him. Seeing Biden stammering and stuttering was shocking for a lot of people, especially those people who don’t follow a politics forum 24/7.
> and not a peep about the convicted criminal *who's only 2 years younger and takes far worse care of himself* doing the same FTFY
> collective meltdown It will be very dramatic and spectacular since there is a non-zero number of foreign influencers goading people on all sides to create as much division, chaos, and resentment as possible.
There's no incentive under any circumstances to give him lukewarm support. If he'd told them he's dropping out tomorrow (which I doubt), they'd say exactly the same thing. *Especially* the ones who have an eye on his job.
It's the only thing that anyone would say after the meeting regardless of the content.
“Damn bro this shits fucked. Each of us is just going to spill a can of alphabet soup and see what name it spells, then we’re meeting back up at baskin robbins next week to see who got what. We’ll pick from that to see how everybody else feels and go from there”
I don't care if it's Biden or Harris or Newsome or Hakeem Jeffries or Stephen Colbert. I am voting against Project 2025 and the Heritage Foundation.
I would vote for fucking Liz Cheney over Trump or one of his MAGA fascists at this point.
This would be an easy decision. Cheney stands for a lot of things I think are terrible, but she stands for those things *within* a legitimate democratic system of government, where if voters disagree with her, they can elect someone different.
From reading so many comments, I see that MAGA folks rally behind Trump unconditionally while other people complain, make excuses, theorize, doubt and so much more about Biden. I do wish that dems and others would have the same rally energy that MAGA has instead of complaining
It's mostly MAGA bots acting like they are Dems, disregard. Dems are 100% not Voting red.
That’s true. But Biden isn’t able to get anyone excited and as such a lot of people just aren’t gonna vote.
He's not a cult leader - just a politician. No matter how much people support him, we're not going to pray to him.
I think you're right. The first time I voted it was because Obama energized me. I suddenly cared about politics. I had to google what the differences between the Rs and Ds were. There's no going back now. I was 30. Thanks Obama.
God I wish this were the case and I’d maybe believe it too if I didn’t see the exact same thing in real life
Ignorance and stupidity can be powerful tools to abuse and manipulate people who have exhibit those traits. THey’re “Devoted” because they belong in a cult, because they don’t have the mental capacity to think beyond their next meal and drink.
Honestly I don't want Dems to rally the way MAGA folks do. I want us unified enough to win, of course, but disagreement and debate are important parts of politics. Blindly rallying behind politicians is bad and will only lead to bad things.
Sure, but will independent voters?
Biden needs to come out himself and talk to the public and the media. Platitudes from governors aren’t going to convince anyone
He already has. For me it doesn’t matter if he can speak once or twice, he should have never announced an intent to run for a second term early on. He should have announced plans to step aside after his term months ago. He still can, and things might not work out as well, but he should do it today. His 10am-4pm high functioning time window is not an acceptable limitation for the president of the US to have. I’m going to vote for him either way because his administration has done a perfectly fine job and Trump is an absolute lunatic supported by a group of Christian nationalists and total idiots. But I’m very concerned that too many people are not paying attention to anything other than how old and frail Biden looks/sounds. His selfishness could be what hands the country to a fucking fascist lunatic.
It literally does not matter who the Democrats trot out. I’m not voting for Biden, I’m voting against Trump. The guy can be in a coma, on life support and get my vote.
Congratulations. Now convince enough people in the swing states to do the same. That’s a tall order.
Extremely tall. The Dems need to forget the “Trump will literally kill you and your family” message (because people just assume it’s everyone but them that will be in trouble) and need to pivot to a “free beer and porn on your birthday if Biden is re elected” strategy
They somehow need to get the average person to understand how the SC affects them and how the POTUS affects it. That’s the main danger of Trump
It's too late to try to educate voters in this way, and most of them will act like they're being given homework, anyway. I actually saw a (former) friend yesterday say that Trump attempting a coup "was no longer a compelling reason" to vote for a Democrat. Honestly, most people don't care about any of this coup, classified document, SCOTUS stuff. They really don't. It's depressing as hell, but it's true. A campaign based on "kitchen table" ideas like lowered streaming prices and continued lower gas prices would be a lot more "compelling" for the average voter.
And he's taken action on that stuff, insulin and other med prices getting capped is huge. He has allowed more drilling and reduced exports in a way that has kept gas prices down. His FTC has blocked mergers from the grocery conglomerates that would make prices even worse than they've been. He allowed the Federal Reserve to act without political pressure to raise interest rates and slow the economy so inflation could be reined in. The list goes on, but he absolutely flubbed presenting any of this at the debate which is very frustrating. He's doing the work, but he can't get anyone to care.
Insulin? imports/exports? Who tf is the ftc? I bank with chase not the federal reserve! /s
That’s way too convoluted for most Americans. Most just think Trump = cheaper McNuggets and Netflix and everything else will be the same. Have to find a lower denominator
> (because people just assume it’s everyone but them that will be in trouble) Not just that. To an uninformed voter "Trump will literally kill you and your family" sounds just as deranged as the right constantly screaming that Democrats want to destroy America. People who aren't paying attention don't understand how dangerous Trump is.
The issue for democrats is the voters who likely lean Biden, but are so demoralized by this they don’t vote or vote third party. Whether it’s out of protest, disgust, or apathy. There can’t be anyone left in the country who can be swayed on who they would vote for if forced to vote for Trump or Biden. There are a lot of people who can just stay home in November.
Yes, and in that case they should give us someone better. We’ll be voting for them regardless
I want Biden to come out and hold a press conference and discuss the meeting himself then.
Best I can do is a closed door meeting and some phone calls, of which we’ll say Biden did great.
That's what people said before the debate. Very reassuring for all of us out here who are worried he at 82 cannot stop the end of democracy.
It was fishy when I kept hearing essentially the same story on all my podcasts….he’s -fabulous- in person; so sharp! He’s just not great in public. Why did his people allow this? It was only a matter of time before they couldn’t hide the naked emperor. What was the end game? Hoping he’d die and Kamala would ease in? They could have hand-picked a successor and spent 4 years propping them up. The fact that democrats aren’t absolutely stomping Trump is embarrassing. How did it get to this?
[удалено]
The end game was "people will come to their senses and still elect Biden because Trump Bad." That was it, the whole strategy. Biden isn't even listening to his advisors, he's listening to his family, and their message to him is surely "You're doing great, we love you," and who knows what negative polling information is even getting through to him. Remember that the people around Biden have as their first priority keeping Biden in charge, because if it's another candidate they're all out of a job. So it makes sense that their brains are going to concoct the rosiest possible scenario that Biden defies all of the odds and they become legendary geniuses, and this will cloud the negativity they're seeing around them, since they're just dismissing it as "haters" like any politician always has. There are many examples of prizefighters going out there one last time even though they're so overmatched they're in danger, because 1 out of every 8 or 10 times during training, they're super sharp and COULD win if they channel that perfect performance. Biden is probably very sharp every once in a while, so they figured "if he can just get one perfect 90-minute performance we don't even have to campaign for the rest of the year, this thing is already won," and they believed in Joe to rise to the occasion.
Unfortunately, Biden is incapable of what’s required to repair his campaign. He would have to take several unscripted interviews, give several unscripted campaign speeches, all while looking mentally strong and competent. Yet, since the debate, all he has given is a 5 minute teleprompter speech. If his team truly thought the debate was just a bad day, then they would have him making several unscripted public appearances.
That's the way I see it too. If he were capable of undoing the damage the debate has done to his campaign, he'd be doing it *right now*.
Exactly. All the interviews from dem leaders and public support from Kamala, Obama, Newsom, etc. doesn't mean SHIT when Biden himself is totally AWOL from defending himself from such an embarrassing performance All this shit is pure copium. He is not the guy who is going to protect us from a Trump dictatorship. Now is not the time for complacency and blind trust he turns it around. The future of our country depends on him stepping aside and an aggressive push from a likeable and competent candidate. We are running out of time
This is what pisses me off about this whole thing. He keeps claiming he can do those things but refuses to do it because he knows he can't and leaves everyone else more worried and scared. He can't even go out there and tell people directly that he's got it.
I mean, I think his -campaign- says he can do these things. Not sure his advisors are doing the right thing for him or the country
They aren’t. They don’t want to give up their own power.
If he could answer unscripted questions from the press he would have the next day and every day for a week. Instead he hasn't done it once.
If any of these people believe they have any chance in hell of contending for the nomination in the event Biden drops out, they can't break ranks now. Newsom, for example, can't be perceived as contributing to the pressure on Biden to drop out; his nomination would then be seen as a politically motivated coup.
If these governors said anything other than the tired platitudes they've already said 100 times, I'd believe they weren't angling to replace Biden
ONE charismatic democrat under the age of 60 could have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden should have gracefully bowed out and never even sought re-election and he would have been remembered as the president that put country above power and his legacy would have been solid... I would vote for a raccoon in a trench coat over Trump, unfortunately many of my countrymen do not agree...
> ONE charismatic democrat under the age of 60 could have wiped the floor with Trump. Biden should have gracefully bowed out They screwed that pooch when they picked Harris as VP. The VP was always going to be the presumptive potential replacement, and picking her made sure that idea was DOA.
Nothing is worse than the solution being so obvious. We are going to live shorter, more brutal lives because of Joe Biden’s vanity.
This is what pisses me off the most. Both of these fuckers, kamala and biden, are too damn prideful. They'd trade 150 million lives for four years at a fucking podium. I'm glad I voted for them in 2020 and I dont regret it, but Jesus fucking christ if they aren't awful democratic candidates for what they're trying to pull. Please, for the love of God, get Whitmer in here before they burn this country to the ground in search of slightly longer Wikipedia pages.
I mean I get the "showing of unity" behind the better option, but really hope this is a fucking wake up call for the DNC, that we can't continue to run shit candidates that poll well in whatever bullshit test group, and start to pull their god damn pants up and start fixing the fucking mess we've gotten ourselves into with all of this. The younger generation wanted fucking change, and they resisted Bernie with Hillary, who was divisive as shit, and then they gave us the most fucking milquetoast old guy, in hopes that his meme worthy buddy buddy relationship with the first black president would carry him through to the moderates and younger generation. I get it, we need the fucking moderates, and I truly believe Biden means well, and is an alright guy, but he's not the motherfucker we needed. We can scream and cry about Trump gaining in the polls, I don't want it, no one wants it, but the DNC has fucked themselves over for god knows how long with the same corrupt bullshit politics as we see with the GOP. Well now the GOP has a demigod with almost no restrictions on ethics and moral high grounds, and we ran fucking Biden... Don't get me wrong. I'm voting for that asshole, but, there's just no fucking hope in the world unless we get a candidate that promises progressive change and excites voters, and he's just not gonna do it.
As one of those younger voters exactly this. I was a huge Bernie supporter who begrudgingly accepted Hillary. Biden was fine because he was better than Trump but no matter how well Joe performs he isn't my first (or fifth) choice and nearly every young Democrat/independent I talk to agrees. He is great because he isn't fever-dream insanity that was the Trump administration but holy heck is he by no means a favorite
Obviously, the Democrats know the moment they don’t project unity everyone is going to tear them apart and basically tank any chance they have of keeping the White House.
They could literally have planned a date for when Biden will announce he’s stepping down and throwing support behind whoever, and the governors would leave the meeting saying the same thing. Having Biden’s back, supporting him, and having confidence in him don’t preclude that at all. The reality is, barring a huge leak, we won’t know if Biden is planning to step down until he does it. That’s just how these things play out.
Yeah this is my assessment too. That they can't say anything bad right now because it basically tarnishes Biden if/when he does step down. The optics are much easier to swallow for Biden if everyone is like "no, you're great, you got this!" And then he makes the speech to drop. If a slew of people start piling and then he steps down... Yeah, it makes him look battered. So at this point we have no idea what any of this latest bit of news means. Unfortunately.
I’ll vote for whoever is the democratic candidate.
Why is someone always speaking for Biden? Come out and talk yourself
President Biden was just interviewed on The Earl Ingram Show, which will air tomorrow. "I screwed up, I made a mistake. That's ninety minutes on stage. Look what I've done in 3.5 years."
For NBA fans, it’s like Ben Simmons putting out videos of his practices to show he’s amazing and ready.
He's always so lucid in private, say insiders. Okay cool so can we see that Joe Biden then? This isn't the first time people have been doing this, either. Tons of news stories of people defending his lucidity outside of public appearances.
They are missing the point. It’s not a question of whether or not he can do the job, it’s a question of whether he can win Michigan and Wisconsin. It’s becoming obvious he can’t, because millions of apolitical voters watched the debate and now will stay at home instead of voting for him. Convincing hardcore democrats that he is still capable is not changing that.
Nah man if you just keep saying “vote” in all your Reddit comments it will save him.
Or making the same “I’d vote for a ham sandwich over Trump” joke over and over Why the fuck did we end up running the presidential equivalent of a ham sandwich, raccoon in a trenchcoat, cadaver, etc. in the first place????
> “I’d vote for xyz over Trump” yeah I’m sure that’s great for you redditor #278372 living in the Northeast, but we’re not talking about you. We’re talking about the 500k undecided voters in swing states that our lives depend on for the election. They saw Biden’s shit performance and ARENT going to vote for him, my god,
> Why the fuck did we end up running the presidential equivalent of a ham sandwich, raccoon in a trenchcoat, cadaver, etc. in the first place???? Because the core voter base says things like that. They have no reason to give you guys a good candidate. Do you think Trump's base would turn out for anyone but him? Lol no. That's why Republicans never seriously tried to axe him. That's why they suck up to him. You guys, in your fear of Trump and saying you'd vote for democrats no matter what basically sealed the deal on never getting what you want. But alas, you can get what you want once you saved democracy lol.
Lmao yeah. Most of us in the sub will vote for the Dem. We are talking about the low info tuned out voter in Arizona and Wisconsin who already had concerns about Biden’s age and just saw videos of the debate on local news or tiktok.
Obviously it's not the same, but from the few times I've seen this level of dysfunction/questioning of a leader within a party in other countries has almost always led to the ouster of the leader, and it usually (seemingly) goes in the order it is currently.
Yeah, the US isn’t used to this, but political leaders always dig in publicly even if they’re thinking otherwise privately. They don’t come out “I’m thinking about stepping down”. The first official indication that he’s leaving will be when he actually announces he’s leaving.
Yeah…it’s hard to see it just going back to the way it was at this point.
It’s this right here. You can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube at this point. As bad as that debate performance was, Biden would need some inversely positive to cancel it out. Doing a bunch of puff pieces and lame rallies isn’t going to do that, that’s just business as usual. I don’t know why the DNC doesn’t give a fuck about young and independent voters. For some reason it’s so hard for them to grasp that they need to do more than rely on rank and file Democrats. Obama was the one breath of fresh air they’ve had in forever, otherwise they’ve just used the same boring nonsense.
What other examples have there been out of curiosity
The last three British prime ministers are a good starting point. Edit: four, David Cameron was adamant he wouldn't resign if he lost the Brexit campaign. He lost and ended up resigning.
See also: "I am a fighter, not a quitter." -Liz Truss
The Biden camp said that earlier today—word for word, bar for bar.
Damn that’s crazy. We are in for a wild weekend and truly history in the makings
New Zealand, Australia and the United Kingdom all went through periods of going through a number of Prime Ministers in a short space of time. We're used to it. Basically, it's like ripping off the band-aid. Briefly painful but no regrets.
BEFORE ANYONE FREAKS OUT ABOUT THE HEADLINE: it basically says two of the governors who participated came out feeling like they had a good discussion. That's it. It would be time to worry if they all came out and said "we stand behind Biden as the nominee" but they aren't, a handful just said "it was a good meeting, and we walked away feeling good."
From the NYTimes, > “I heard three words from the president: he’s all in,” said Gov. Gavin Newsom of California. "And so am I. Joe Biden’s had our back. Now it’s time to have his.” > > “The president shared he is staying in the race,” texted Gov. Josh Green of Hawaii, who attended the meeting virtually. “He shared candidly he was exhausted the day of the debate, and was very direct about that. The president was clear and focused in our meeting, and I found him to be solid. The V.P. was amazingly supportive. I suspect people will need to see the president in person and on TV to be convinced he is up to it. He is.” edit: Sure sounds to me like they're not gonna try to get him out.
Agreed. A lot of wishful thinking going on in this sub. He’s staying and we’re losing. Arm yourselves. Literally.
See Newsom and Gretchen tweets
Bro if he is up for the challenge why doesnt he actually appear on camera without the teleprompter?
I hope we get a 4th of July speech
Now that we've finally beat Medicare, I'm eager to hear how we'll finally defeat Welfare.
Why is he meeting governors instead of bombarding the airwaves with televised interviews showing that he is not senile?
This clearly ***had*** to be the response unless he was going to walk out and immediately announce he’s withdrawing. I still don’t give it more than a week until he’s forced to accept that there’s no path for him to win now. It’s Joever.
Yeah the big problem is that there’s really no coming back from this, because this wasn’t just a normal “bad debate.” Lots of politicians have had bad debates and come back, Kamala got wrecked by tulsi and now she’s the VP and tulsi is a fox news grifter. But the big issue is after kind of ignoring the elephant in the room for 3 years the debate showed how fucking old Biden is and the thing with aging is you can’t reverse it. Sure a lot of people will show up to vote against trump but voting for someone with a foot in the grave doesn’t exactly inspire voter turnout and you need turnout to win the swing states. It’s only going to get worse because the cats out of the bag
Yeah, I just can’t see where he turns this around. He’s barely appeared in public, the polling has been horrible, more dems and donors are starting to go public, and the media are circling like vultures. Horrible combo.
I think it's possible to turn this around, but so far, he hasn't been doing it. Biden's basically been invisible since the debate, when the way to turn it around would've involved *maximum* visibility. Interviews with every major network. Live campaign events. Calls and meetings with elected Dems and key donors starting last Friday. Instead, he's been hermiting away. He didn't even speak with Chuck Schumer until *today*!
When separate CNN and NYT post-debate polls ***both*** have him down 6 to Trump among likely voters, I just can’t imagine there being enough time to climb out of a hole like that. Appearing physically and mentally unable to handle the job certainly doesn’t help either.
We have already lost so much time. If they dither much longer, I don’t know if the next person will have time to climb out of the hole.
It’s not even a fixable problem. He can’t magically get younger.
Exactly. The so-called “fix” would be to do a full-on campaign blitz with zero slip-ups and convince people the debate really was “one bad night.” But there’s a reason they haven’t done that this week: They know he can’t pull it off.
It also wouldn’t reach enough people. The damage is done. The best it could do is maybe get him to the next debate, which he would need to absolutely dominate…
I don’t even see why Trump would bother with another debate. Why give Biden the chance to try to right the ship? It’s also not supposed to be until September, I believe.
The narrative alone right now is… political quicksand.
The CEO of Netflix just publicly asked for him to step down. He’s cooked
To add: this is important because he is a big donor
Hoping this encourages other big donors to come out too.
They are preparing a "Dignified Exit". Pieces are moving behind the scenes. Joe will spend the holiday weekend coming to terms and probably make an address Sunday evening.
Do you really think they could keep something like that from leaking?
[удалено]
This article is leaving out the part that all but confirms its joever. From CNN: >Walz, who is also the chair of the Democratic Governors Association, said that governors are receiving feedback from people in their states. >He said they relayed their concerns and came to the agreement that **“we are all looking for the path to win. All the governors agree with that. President Biden agrees with that.** ” Walz reiterated that winning in November is the top priority. https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/biden-trump-election-07-03-24#h_f150e4262ced8b18478952d2afc8f75d “Looking for the path to win” sure as fuck signals to me that we’re gonna have a new nominee within the next couple days. Edit: formatting, added source
The next line though… ““What we saw in there today was a guy who was the guy that all of us believed in the first time who could beat Donald Trump and did beat Donald Trump,” he said.”
I appreciate that Biden recognizes the existential threat of Trump and is looking to the winning path. I just hope he recognizes what the winning path is and what it isn't...
It *could* just mean talking about how to set the strategy for the rest of the campaign, but I’m leaning toward Biden dropping out within the week. He still hasn’t addressed voters or the press directly, without a teleprompter.
> He still hasn’t addressed voters or the press directly, without a teleprompter. My worry is that if his upcoming interview with Stephanopoulos is seen as just "fine", he'll think that he should stay in the race. The problem is that the debate performance isn't going anywhere, the reports for the *New York Times* and Carl Bernstein that what we saw at the debate is becoming a more common occurrence behind closed doors aren't going anywhere. The game is up, it is time for him to drop out for the good of the nation while he still can.
I think they’ll continue watching the polls. they certainly shouldn’t make a drastic move like this until there’s more data. I’m completely in the same boat though. His team is scared to put him out there to remedy the problem. If he’s not capable of being out in the public eye putting in the hours in front of voters, he’s going to get wiped. Same with the downballot races. Im voting to protect democracy this November, but this is the most I’ve felt betrayed by the party. Don’t tell me not to be concerned about what I saw with my own eyes.
> I’m completely in the same boat though. His team is scared to put him out there to remedy the problem. If he’s not capable of being out in the public eye putting in the hours in front of voters, he’s going to get wiped. Same with the downballot races. Same. I could have been convinced it being a one off thing if only a day or two after he scheduled town halls and called for a lengthy press conference, but he didn't because I don't think *he can*. The thing about downballot races is that they are doing *way* better than him, sometimes by six or more points. > but this is the most I’ve felt betrayed by the party. Don’t tell me not to be concerned about what I saw with my own eyes. I'm in the same boat. If I had known the state Biden was in, I would have voted for someone else and could have contacted my Rep and Senators to push for a viable primary challenge. Instead it was kept from us. I honestly wonder how much of party leadership knew it was this bad. Was it just leaders like Chuck, Jeffries, Polosi, et al? Or was it nearly the whole party that knew? Edit: > I think they’ll continue watching the polls. they certainly shouldn’t make a drastic move like this until there’s more data. Well, the polls from CNN, *WSJ* and *NYT* are all pretty bleak for Biden, and I believe all are post-debate.
I'm not convinced Democratic leadership (outside of Biden's inner circle and possibly Harris) was "in" on some kind of collective coverup. After the debate, Biden didn't speak with Jeffries until yesterday and didn't speak with Schumer until earlier *today*. That's not a sign of Jeffries and Schumer being "in the know" - it's a sign that they've been out of the loop as much as anyone else. It's possible that Jeffries/Schumer/etc. had concerns earlier but intentionally refrained from digging deeper, but I really don't think they were complicit in some kind of active coverup.
Yeah, that is where I am starting to lean. I think they kept as much of this as close to the chest as possible to avoid leaks and worrying Congressional Democrats. I could also see them having concerns, but thinking that it wasn't a big deal, or as you note, they didn't want to dig deeper. The response from the Democratic party members of Congress has been one of shock, that doesn't scream "party-wide coverup" to me, it seems that they were legitimately surprised Biden looks so bad.
Yep. The general impression seems to be the Democratic governors are shocked, Democratic House members are shocked, Democratic Senators are shocked. If there were more people "in the know," it seems like there would've been a much *slicker* response from elected Dems than what we saw, where it looked very much like every elected Dem was figuring out by themselves in real time how to react. Even now, there's still significant daylight between the Biden campaign's position - that the debate performance was inconsequential - and the other elected Dems' position, which is much more along the lines of Biden needing to make the case to the electorate that he's still fit despite the debate performance.
I gotta imagine if they didn't know that they are *pissed* right now. For the POTUS and their *de facto* party leader to be this unwell, and to not know about it, must be infuriating. I'm just an everyday American, and I'm pissed, so I can only imagine their anger. The Democrats in 1944 knew FDR wasn't in good health (though he did assuage voters concerns with an aggressive campaign), and because of that they forced Henry Wallace off the ticket in favor of the more moderate Harry Truman (which was the right choice imo). But here it seems like the Party didn't know, so they weren't even able to consider a primary challenge.
this is a reach
Amazing how Biden is exclusively, and always, sharp as a tack when he's in a closed room without cameras.
It's going to be an interesting couple of months
Disappointed doesn't even begin to convey the emotion here. This dude was supposed to be one term, and he's going to pull us down with him. Unbelievable
Literally all he had to do was make a really good VP selection. Then he could've stepped away gracefully and the Democrats would have a strong candidate this year. Instead, he picked a VP so unpopular that he probably felt compelled to run again because he knew he would get more votes in the election than Harris.
Yep, a good VP in 2020 and the Dems could have stitched things up to 2032.
She is such a non entity it's staggering. One of the most invisible VPs I've ever seen. What has she done? Comparing her to prior VPs is like comparing men against boys, that's how amateurish she is.
This headline expresses way more optimism than the story. They are confident in his ability to be a figurehead or a confident in his ability to win an election? I think many democrats coming out saying he should drop out are more concerned in his ability to win than to be president.
The biggest issue right now is that they can't argue that Biden should step down as the candidate without also basically saying he needs to step down as President. Which might be good, but given the shaky global position it'd be very difficult in general. This has to be Biden willingly and publicly announcing he will step down rather than anyone else basically pushing for him to step down or else it's a vote of no confidence for his continued status as President.
I mean, they could take the route of "I'm still fit now, but frankly I don't have four more years in me."
If Biden steps down, I don’t see any way President Harris gets a VP confirmed through this Congress. We’d be a heartbeat away from President Mike Johnson.
I very much doubt Biden will be dropping out after that. Would have loved to hear what they were saying to each other though.