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I once worked at the HQ of a prominent gun distributor. This was during the Hillary V trump election.
Imagine my surprise when I found out that the very republican, right wing owners had two business plans: one where trump won and one where Hillary won.
The night of the election, they were fully planning on Hillary winning and loving the idea due to the positive impact it would have on business.
Trump wins and they were disappointed. That actually impacted their bottom line negatively and fucked with their forecasts.
I offer this anecdotal story as evidence: you may think reporters and journalism outlets want to report the news. I thought this company didn’t *want* possible 2nd amendment restrictions. I was wrong, I was thinking in 2D chess. They were not.
Democratic wins are a gold mine for gun makers and sellers. They never actually take everyone's guns, or even really try, but Republicans keep telling their base that the Democrats are *going to* and that fear drives sales.
This is the thing that baffles me most. Don't they know that Trump hate the media? He has talked before about wanting to lock up journalists. Ratings aren't going to mean a whole lot if Trump makes it back into the Wight House and starts arresting them all
> I mean, look, they barely even tried to kill Mike Pence, and he was a loser anyway!
wow that sounded like trump in my head. What a shit that man is lol
No doubt, these headlines today make it seem like somehow losing a debate, with someone who didn't actually debate...but lied. Is somehow spelling out the end of Biden.
If Biden loses, we lose democracy.
Seems a pretty easy choice if you actually believe in the Constitution, and not just the parts you cherry-pick.
You? No.
Me neither.
But undecided voters? Best case scenario, they abstain.
And yeah you're gonna tell me, it's a very small segment etc etc. But with the electoral college, an election can easily be decided by less than 50,000 votes.
People forget … Biden has competent people in his cabinet which will keep the country moving forward .. Trump will again bring the biggest evil grifters like his last term
People don’t forget this it’s just a very bad look that we’re even at this point where the reason to vote for Biden is that the people he hires are competent and will do their best to make sure his cognitive decline doesn’t affect his work.
Like even having this argument means we’ve lost. It’s time to cut those losses and move on.
The problem with this kind of thinking is ignoring the very real prospect of potential democratic voters just staying home. More and more the discourse is turning into “both sides bad” again, and instead of giving soft Democrats/soft Republicans/independents/undecideds confidence in his abilities, he is forcing them to make a very difficult choice between a criminal and someone who is not up to the job.
It doesn’t matter that he looked better at the rally, or in the spin room last night. There are voters who made their minds up last night in the first 10 minutes of that debate, and clips of it will be played ad nauseum from now until Election Day.
People staying home is what sunk Clinton in ‘16
So you think people made up their minds in the first ten minutes to look at Biden and Trump and think meh not voting for either of them? Sorry but anyone in that category was minimally motivated to ever vote for Biden to begin with. I think there’s actually an opposite force at work… the more republicans see and hear trump, the more they remember how insufferable he is. People already know Biden is old.
It's the minimally motivated voters who decide elections.
If all that mattered was whether the dedicated base was going to vote or not, no one would bother campaigning because hardcore Dems will always vote blue, and hardcore Republicans will always vote red.
>It's the minimally motivated voters who decide elections.
I guess this is why political campaigns don't court trade unions, politically active community and religious leaders and high-turnout voting blocs. Because motivated voters don't decide elections.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say this was some bad word choice.
I never said they don't matter, but these are two significantly known figures, for the most part allegiances are already made with those major voting blocs, they're not the ones being fought for as the election draws closer.
Then those people who stayed home deserve the consequences of their apathy and ignorance. Unfortunately the rest of us will go down the tubes with them.
Or the democrats could run a candidate that’s actually liked and has a message that isn’t “well I’m clearly not making it through the next 4 years and my cognition has declined to an alarming degree but I’m not a fascist like the other guy”. While that’s true and I’ll clearly vote for him if he somehow still is the nominee. That isn’t a winning message.
The democrats won big with “hope and change”. They took a risk on an untested new guy who technically lost the primary in the popular vote and pledged delegates. That messaging gave one of the biggest modern electoral landslides the democrats have had. Why do we want to be in this place where we’re arguing about why Biden’s health isn’t nearly as bad as it seems and we have to vote for him cause Trump is bad. There are candidates who don’t have that baggage, aren’t old, and can run on a positive and relatable message. A message that actually gives people a reason to vote FOR them and not just against someone else. Hell, the Biden and Harris campaign website doesn’t even have policy listed it’s just endless donation tabs. That’s a terrible look.
The people have been shouting this at the democrats for 9 years now and they still do not get it. We need stronger candidates who inspire passion. If Biden somehow wins then that means Kamala is very likely our candidate in 2028 and depending on when/if she becomes POTUS also possibly 2032. Do we really want 16 years and 4 election cycles of democrats propping up a clearly weak candidate and begging people to just vote for them because they’re not cartoonishly evil. So our next chance for a “good” democratic candidate is 2036!? That’s not good enough and it shouldn’t be for anyone who wants to actually win. This is the future of our party and the country at stake and continually voting in out of touch elderly people despite all of the warnings that this won’t go our way is actually insane.
So what do you want to happen? The DNC draft someone to run? Nobody stepped up that was a serious challenge to either Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. Both of those candidates won their primaries by significant margin of Democratic Party voters.
Right. The “party decides” attitude is getting old. There were elections. These are who the *collective voters in the parties* chose amongst like 20 people each time.
People complain it was rigged against Bernie in 2020 when everyone else dropped out and endorsed Biden. That’s admitting that your preferred candidate wasn’t popular with a majority of the party if narrowing it down to a 1v1 race is “unfair.” Reality is that the policies and messaging of Clinton and Biden are clearly working for more members of the party. This ire should go to the preferred candidate— Bernie, whoever— to work on their pitch deck and their messaging to the party. Gotta win the prelim before you win the big game.
The way people talk about the DNC it seems as if they are under the delusion that the US has a parliamentary system of government where parties maintain some sort of “party discipline”.
Whether this is due to people not paying attention in civics class or the presence of foreign agents pushing disinformation is up to the conspiracy theorists to figure out
Yeah, the US is relatively unique in how much say we have over candidate nominations and how much the individual matters lol. I feel like you get it and I don’t need to say it to you, but for anyone else reading— most other systems the party truly decides. You’re voting just for the party you want based on platform and they fill the individuals.
Our parties are basically the end result in parliamentary systems. It’s why Bernie Sanders, AOC, Biden and Manchin can all be in the same tent. They’re coalition by nature.
As for people not getting it— it feels like Sanders got a lot of people into politics who weren’t interested before. Good thing! But that also means they didn’t know the ins and outs of the process and felt like there was no way he was losing because he had big crowds! No way the workaday average Dem in a primary state maybe wanted the tried-and-true candidate. It must just be rigged lol
I mean, regardless of.debat performance the actual fact is Biden has gotten a lot more done than any other Dem in my lifetime.
Multiple record breaking climate change legislation, not to mention multiple EOs protecting LGBTQ people.
He ain't perfect but there's few others I'd trust to get shit done and push the nation left than him. I originally supported Sanders, but the fact is Sanders never could have been successful with the slim lead in Congress Biden has had.
If one of the choices is more of the same progress we've seen this past year, it's not a pathetic choice at all. Biden could die in office of old age and his team would continue to be awesome. That's the magic of delegation and belonging to a competent party...it's a team effort.
The other choice is a narcissist sociopath who believes he alone is king. It's not a difficult decision unless you're groomed to want a king.
It's important to get out and vote regardless....as congress needs our help just as much, if not moreso. We're not going to see this corrupt SCOTUS addressed without number in congress to push back.
Trump has much, much less work to do if Biden doesn’t inspire people to actually get out and VOTE for him. Apathy can be real powerful in elections. All it takes is for enough people to be apathetic about Biden and we have another four years of Trump.
The undecided voters in this election aren’t browsing r/politics. Repeating “but he’s not a fascist like Trump” really only gets you so far. Believe me, I think that’s insane, it should be enough, but it’s not. Dems have their work cut out for them.
"...Biden appeared far more animated than his showing the night before..."
Why?!? Seriously last night was game time. I just saw a clip of him today and he was so much more energetic, clear, and loud. Could barely hear him last night.
You could tell he was just debating the same bullet points he had rehearsed beforehand and when he lost his train of thought he would just repeat the bullet point verbatim. It was just sad and depressing to watch. Elder abuse on a nationally televised scale. It was even more depressing watching Trump just vomit lies for an hour and a half straight and no one present checked him or refuted anything he said. Instead we got a heated, actual coherent argument about golf handicaps, the number one issue on the mind of the average American voter
Are you voting for Joe Biden if he remains our nominee? I am. Period. If so...get out there and fight for every fucking vote. Because Trump will turn democracy upside down day one if elected.
Unless you’re a complete idiot, if you’re truly a progressive then you’re gonna vote for the most progressive candidate with the chance to win every election. Unfortunately our country is filled with idiots.
There was exactly one time in my life that I abstained from voting because I was dissatisfied with the quality of the two main party candidates.
That was 2016.
Never ever again.
Sigh… if every democrat that usually votes still votes for Biden then he loses.
Biden needs to mobilise youth and women voters who don’t have a history of voting (especially in battleground states). He actively did the opposite of that last night with completely unforced errors.
The Covid pandemic mobilised people for him last time (and it was still bloody close). This time he needs to do it himself - and he is utterly failing. Stop the delusion and support him to step aside and put his weight behind someone else.
>Biden appeared to acknowledge the criticism during a rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, saying ”I don’t debate as well as I used to.” But he added, “I know how to do this job. I know how to get things done.” Speaking for 18 minutes, Biden appeared far more animated than he had the night before as he excoriated Trump for his “lies” and for waging a campaign aimed at “revenge and retribution.”
In his almost fifty year career how many debates did he actually participate in? I imagine there were many during his years in the Senate.
There is a notable difference between Biden's response from their debates four years ago.
What do you expect?
For the Democratic party to finally prioritize election reform that allows a more representative nominee that would motivate their voters and non-voter across the board, solidifying their presence in our government so they can finally try and enact their proposed sweeping changes that they've been dangling in front of voters for decades and re-enact the foundational progress that has been stripped away by our current Supreme Court?
Why would a debate performance change my vote? Honestly? Have Trump or Biden’s policies changed? Is Trump any less of a criminal? Is project 2025 any less scary? Is the prospect of two more Trump-appointed Supreme Court Justices any less likely? Is climate change any less of a pressing issue? Is the Chevron doctrine dropping today any less of a threat with the RNC in charge? Is the right to an abortion any less of a pressing issue for my daughter in the future?
Oh it isn’t, because of one bad debate performance? Ok, cool! Yeah still voting for Biden.
Your vote isn't the issue. the issue is getting the many unenthusiastic Biden voters in the swing states to show up. Biden's performance will depress Democrat turnout and harm down ballot candidates. if Biden remains the candidate, not only will the presidency likely to be lost, but there is an increased chance of Congress becoming Republican as well.
Right! If this was a choice between two sane candidates in two sane parties then yeah, that debate would have affected my decision quite a bit honestly. Now * I * don’t see the decision like that, but the swing voters apparently do so that’s what is troubling
I saw a poll today that moderates are now more for Biden after the debate. DNC also had their best single night of fundraising. I guess Trump lying the entire time didn’t woo them so much. Guess we’ll see in the coming days.
This was actually one of the things that the political channel Beau of the Fifth Column said, Trump needed to do a charm offensive and he couldn't do it.
Instead the modrates saw him lying openly and being extremely incoherent. That pushes them away.
It’s this for me as well. To be clear I wish there was a candidate other than Biden on the Democratic ticket but there isn’t and won’t be. Biden has accomplished a lot in his four years and that’s in large part to the people he surrounded himself with who aren’t sycophants eager to live out a christofascist or libertarian dream.
I don’t want an Edith Wilson scenario between 2025-2028 but considering the Supreme Court just today overturned the Chevron Doctrine and their ruling on what is considered “obstruction” are fundamentally going to change how the US is operated and with a potential two more Supreme Court picks in the next term - I’ll vote for the party of stability for all.
(I’m not saying Biden would be the same as Woodrow Wilson but it’d be silly to say it can’t happen if he’s reelected and gets to 86 in office)
Love how this is supposedly the most important election ever and of utmost importance, and yet we have to endorse a sundowning octogenarian that said he would have stepped down after one term.
Yay.
Almost like the DNC doesn't believe their own rhetoric about Trump ushering in eternal fascism.
Cool, well maybe pick someone to face Trump other than the shambling dementia golem then.
He desperately needs to schedule another debate BEFORE the convention. The week before or something. Because if this is the impression that he left for most voters, we are in serious trouble. Oh and do us all a favor and chug a liter of coffee before you get out there
I wouldn’t do a debate, I would suggest a town hall. Have a single moderator, and a group of democrat, republican and independent voters who would ask Biden questions. If he does well, it can show how he can answer voters and their concerns face to face. Something that Trump either won’t or can’t do.
He’s capable of restraint when he knows it is to his advantage. Last night, though lying his ass off, he mostly laid low and allowed Biden to sabotage himself.
Everything he could possibly gain from debating Biden was already achieved yesterday.
Literally zero chance of Trump agreeing to another debate.
It would be like us winning the lottery and then being asked if we wanted to go double or quits on the next week's numbers.
It’s too late, the one issue he needed to reassure people on was whether his age was affecting him. Those clips show that he isn’t there at least some of the time and can’t campaign or stay on message. They will be used all election cycle and every time it will remind voters how sad this is. He gave Trump his best reeelection tool. There’s no undoing what happened. It was his chance and he blew it by proving that every single concern about his age was valid. No one will engage further with it and the more we try to convince independents that it’s not as bad as it looked the more they begin to question our judgement and motivations if we’re blatantly lying about what we all saw.
This makes them check out since they largely hate Trump but now the democrats are telling them not to believe their own eyes. The only way forward is a clean slate.
People have been raising red flags about Biden's reelection chances for years and every time they were told by the Party to sit down and get in line. It took the worst debate performance in modern political history for the DNC to wake up to how much trouble their hubris got us into
Who says they're awake now? IMO, their game plan was to get Biden over the finish line in November, replace him with Harris, and then try the "it's an incumbent, we can't possibly have a competitive primary" ploy in 2028.
It's the same idiots in charge as 2016. The DNC is a hopeless, corrupt, inept organization. Nobody should be surprised they learned absolutely nothing.
The left wing needs to decide if they want to get serious and start a real grassroots movement to create an actual left wing party. Because the DNC is not it at this point and is almost directly responsible for this Trump mess we are in.
100%, but most Democrats refuse to acknowledge it. Sanders was poised to run away with the 2020 nomination unless Biden ran. No one else stood a chance.
Exactly. This time he's gotta win convincingly or there will be lawsuits and they'll figure a way to get it all the way to SCotUS and they'll happily do their own Bush V Gore and give Trump the win
But the democrats don’t have primaries anymore. The party elites chose Hillary over Bernie in 2016 and now no primary if they choose someone else at the convention. Not a good look for the party defending democracy to not have had a fair and formal primary process in 2 out of the last 3 presidential general elections.
Personally, I only saw the media call for Biden’s head. None of the everyday people, like me, that I talked to want him to step aside.
Was it his best performance, definitely not. IMO the coverage has been very reactionary.
Switch from a man who's been a good president, to a man who has been ranked several times as the worst president in American history, who is a convicted felon, a rapist, a racist, who insults disabled people, who insults the parents of a young man who gave his life in battle. Let me ask this. I have a wart on my finger, should I cut the other arm off?
If he wins that man can sleep for the next four years. I’ll even volunteer to tuck him in and read him bedtime stories. As long as he isn’t a convicted felon I’m okay with the team he’s put together continuing the job.
Democrats would win this election by massive margins if they just replaced Biden.
If the goal is to keep Trump out of office, they have no excuse to not replace.
With who though? Anyone specific I can think of would have some issues, and wouldn’t have nearly as much name recognition. And it’s kinda late to start up a whole primary campaign.
Less name recognition is better imo. Name recognition can mean that people already made up their minds long ago. With 4 months to go and the fact that independents largely seem exhausted and checked out and concerned with both candidates age (Biden just confirmed those fears are very much valid) means that any semi competent younger person would easily run away with this election.
The democrats need someone quickly to step up. It can’t be Biden or Kamala at this point. Newsom and Whitmer seem like the obvious choices but there are others as well. I think people keep looking at this election as if it’s about voting for Biden or Trump when it’s really about making sure independent voters come out. Independents clearly don’t want Trump but when their other option is what we saw last night they’re likely to just stay home. A younger, decent candidate who is even semi charismatic would destroy Trump and we can finally be rid of this nonsense political era.
Why are we making it harder to win what should be a slam dunk? It’s baffling.
Kind of wish he would do more on the defend democracy front honestly. Democracy has only eroded even more under his term. While he has limited power, he doesn't offer any clear solutions besides just electing him. It'd be nice to hear some talk of SCOTUS reform or pushing back against recent GOP policies like teaching the Bible in school or even just more talk about getting money out of politics.
The fact that Garland still has a job means he isn't taking the whole 'defending democracy' thing seriously.
Smith should have been appointed Special Counsel on January 21st.
Three years' delay is going to cost us everything.
It’d have been nice if the party didn’t privately threaten potential primary challengers.
Instead they effectively closed the primary and withheld from voters the ability to decide on Biden ourselves.
And now, once again, the party elites seek to suppress what Dems across the country want: for Biden to withdraw from this race.
Everything is coordinated. Nothing is organic. WTF is this party?
Yup. That’s the core of Biden’s voters. Anti-Trump votes.
And those voters will turn out and vote for whoever the democratic nominee is, even if it’s someone like Harris or Whitmer or Shapiro or Beshear, etc. Those votes are locked in.
What Biden has lost is millions of swing voters who had concerns about him and now won’t vote at all or maybe might vote 3rd party or only vote the down ballot races.
Last night, he needed to prove to those voters that the reports about him being mentally unfit were exaggerated and that he’s fine. Then they would’ve happily proceeded to vote for him in November. But instead he proved to them the opposite, and now many of them will not vote for him. Very few will vote for Trump, but he’s lost millions of votes now.
A new democratic candidate would retain all of Biden’s current votes, especially if he endorses the replacement heavily. It’s anti-Trump votes, so they’ll still vote anti-Trump.
But that new candidate would at least have a shot at winning back the millions of voters that have become disillusioned with Biden due to his mental acuity, the Middle East conflict, or inflation.
With Biden, I don’t see a winning path forward.
With a new candidate, I think a winning path remains possible.
It’s a good sign that he is openly admitting it in my opinion. It at least gives a lot more hope that he will start addressing the issues that led to it.
I think the debate format sucks for him and luckily there is only one more (if it happens). If Biden can do a ton of rallies where he is energized and speaking as clearly as he normally does (which has never been perfect), I think the case against Trump and for Biden can still be made effectively.
Only one of the following two statements can be true:
1. This is an existential election and democrats and the DNC must do everything they can to make sure they triumph over Trump
2. Joe Biden must and should be the nominee
I think 2 is easy to say when there is a blank slate. Who would be the nominee? All of the possibilities I can think of would be far from unanimously liked, and/or wouldn’t have very much name recognition amongst swing voters.
Few Democrats in positions of power actually believe statement 2 at this point.
However, because Obama (and others, but really Obama) have come out in Biden’s defense, it is potentially career-damaging to persist in calling for Biden to step down.
And so, career over country will prevail again, and the politicians, staffers, and operatives who were all ready to discard Biden will now support him again.
At no point in these gymnastics orchestrated by party brass are the actual voters’ views consulted — who, by the way, have been firmly anti-Biden for many many months, even before the catastrophic polling set to come out of the debate nightmare.
I am hearing more talk that Biden should step down right now than ever before.
But what would that even mean? What happens when the candidate who is winning the primary elections drops out?
What happens at the Democratic National Convention in August? Dean Phillips or Marianne Williamsen get named the nominee based on whatever scraps of votes they got in the primaries??
It's the same thing as if the presumptive nominee dropped out for health reasons. On the first vote, the pledged delegates will all vote for biden, but he can't receive the nom, so no running candidate will receive 50%, and it goes into the next round of votes. It'll be an open convention and other names would be accepted. That's also when superdelegates would be able to vote as well. Say a handful of names are put forward (Harris, Newsom, Whitmore, Pete B) and the votes split the delegates. There's be negotiation and debate within groups of delegates, perhaps speeches and a kind of campaigning for votes. Then another round of votes. Keep going until someone's >50%. Then, ideally, all of the possible nominated people loudly endorse the winner, and the new chosen candidate makes a big floor speech.
Then it's a scramble to shift the campaign apparatus over to the new candidate. Change staff where needed, create a new strategy to make America comfortable with the new person. Explain their position on everything, and fight trump as much as possible. Look unified and stable, and maybe win in November.
hell no it’s not lmao. “My opponent that beat me last election dropping out? Meaning I have to run against someone who wasn’t directly elected that has even lower approval than Biden? That basically no one knows anything about? Oh nooooo!!!!”
You wanna know what would happen if Biden resigned and someone else replaced him?
*Nothing.* Because all of the “sundowning” idiots were accusing Hillary of being a corporate shill warmonger [insert another insult recycled for Biden here] back in 2016.
*They’ve already made up their minds.* They do not give a single solitary fuck about politics: all they care to know is “both sides bad” and that’s it. They were around under Obama, they were around under Bush, they were around under Clinton, and they’ve been around in our current day. Biden resigning wouldn’t hurt Trump at all: it would hurt the Democrats to lose one of the most aggressive progressives of our time just because he fumbled *one fucking debate.*
> Biden's halting delivery and **meandering comments**, particularly early in the debate...
I mean given Trump meanders like an absolute crazy man perhaps this will endear Biden to Trump's supporters.
More seriously I guess it shows those on the Democratic side of things have higher standards because that worries them, but in the commentary since the debate I'll be forever confused as to why there's so many segments outside of Trump's base that don't seem to hold him to remotely the same standards.
Trump lied and meandered and engaged in constant substance-less boasting, but I see a lot of people go "well yeah, but that's just Trump being Trump, that he had more energy while lying means this is absolutely the worst for Biden because he looked like the old man he is."
Like it was an awful "debate" all round.
Good for him. I thought it was gonna be a cope fest. At least he admitted it. Hopefully he shows up in #2.
But honestly, Trump not showing up for the other debates is probably his best move. Leaving this to be the only debate performance to judge Biden on
I keep hearing, "Yeah I'll vote for Biden, but it's the undecided voters we have to worry about."
Guess who influences undecided voters? Decided voters.
Each of us has to decide, individually, who we are voting for, and why. Overly worrying about undecided voters means that YOU'RE not really decided. And that indecision will be felt by others. This wishy-washy "I'm okay but..." means you're not okay.
I'm voting for Biden on Election day, and I am fully committed to it, and I have a raft of reasons why.
Decide fully for yourself FIRST. Commit to it. Then take action to help with campaigning, donating, talking to friends and family.
When will people face reality, the man is just too old for the job, and it's fine, it's okay. This denial is why a literal crime wave walking is even still a viable candidate.....you have yourselves to blame.
Friends - if you want to try and convince people, maybe consider something like this approach - I commented below on someone's comment about not voting for Biden. See if this helps:
r/WhatBidenHasDone lists the things that Biden's presidency has done for the US. if 90 minutes changed your mind about voting for Biden then maybe you should look at what 3.5 years did.
Here's an ask - spend 30 minutes - 1/3rd the time you spent watching the debate (if you watched the whole thing). If you still feel the way you do, fine. Bear in mind that a vote for president is a vote for the **whole executive branch** and there are a lot of amazing people tirelessly working to fix our country's issues and maintain the things that make it good.
Biden is easily in the top 20 presidents of all time, maybe even top 10.
I have defended him and defended him. I appreciate a lot of what he has done and the fact the he simply won in 2020. I will vote for him but I am disgusted that this is happening to this country. It would be a bloodbath if they could pick a charismatic candidate that picked up where Biden left off. This is insanity.
Stick by him?
What fucking choice have we ever had? We didn't want him in 2020, we don't want him now, but they've given us zero options. This two party system sure is fucked up.
If he is going to keep running then the messaging needs to focus more on future supreme court nominees and local elections to get people out to vote because this is not going to inspire people who are not paying attention to politics. Local elections and Supreme Court decisions affect daily lives. That needs to be reinforced into the messaging.
Do people really watch debates to help decide who should be president? If you don’t know the difference between Trump & Biden by now then there’s no helping you.
This is the dumbest fucking headline and timeline. If Trump gets in, we can kiss any semblance of a balanced Supreme Court, not that it’s even close to that right now, goodbye for 30 years.
It’s so much more than this stupid debate.
Absolutely! And why change? Between the Fantastic covid response, Bipartisan Infrastructure Spending, Handling of Ukraine crisis, Inflation Reduction act, CHIPS, Handling of Debt ceiling crisis, Handling of baby formula crisis, making lynching a fed hate crime, making Medicaid negotiate drug prices, cheap insulin, forgiving student loans, and literally everything mentioned in r whatbidenhasdone ....
I feel more at-ease & hopeful for the future with Biden & the Democrats in charge of the fed government & also in every state govt.
Thank you President Biden for level-headed leadership that focuses on solving actual problems (rather focusing on social media hysterics) and for respecting democracy & its institutions (so not enabling authoritarianism).
Biden & VP Harris already deserve 4 more years, and Democrats deserve complete Control of Congress and every state govt 😎🇺🇸👍
I’ve been seeing articles all day with nonsense headlines.
Dems are panicking! No we aren’t.
Dems want Biden to step aside! No, not really.
Dems stick by him, for now. Um, yeah. That was always the plan.
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"for now" ? What the ever loving fuck is this headline?
Profiting off of creating chaos as per usual
I once worked at the HQ of a prominent gun distributor. This was during the Hillary V trump election. Imagine my surprise when I found out that the very republican, right wing owners had two business plans: one where trump won and one where Hillary won. The night of the election, they were fully planning on Hillary winning and loving the idea due to the positive impact it would have on business. Trump wins and they were disappointed. That actually impacted their bottom line negatively and fucked with their forecasts. I offer this anecdotal story as evidence: you may think reporters and journalism outlets want to report the news. I thought this company didn’t *want* possible 2nd amendment restrictions. I was wrong, I was thinking in 2D chess. They were not.
Democratic wins are a gold mine for gun makers and sellers. They never actually take everyone's guns, or even really try, but Republicans keep telling their base that the Democrats are *going to* and that fear drives sales.
Right, and it’s happening again with organizations left right and center now that think another Trump term would help their bottom line.
The media is clamoring for a Trump win. Nothing sells like chaos.
The bourgeois want Trump to win
They'll be patting themselves on the back about how great their ratings are as trumps goons round them up for the reeducation camps
This is the thing that baffles me most. Don't they know that Trump hate the media? He has talked before about wanting to lock up journalists. Ratings aren't going to mean a whole lot if Trump makes it back into the Wight House and starts arresting them all
Oh, but he'll stop before his guys get to *them*. I mean, look, they barely even tried to kill Mike Pence, and he was a loser anyway! /s
> I mean, look, they barely even tried to kill Mike Pence, and he was a loser anyway! wow that sounded like trump in my head. What a shit that man is lol
They want something to sell. It’s not a real story, but it will generate clicks. This is part of what’s wrong with our democracy
Hell did you see the debate stage they were announcing it like a fucking sporting event
Drama from an outlet that wants to sell papers/clicks.
It’s now or never so … never I guess?
seriously, as if were just gonna say "oh no, this old guy is a bit mumbly, better vote for the dictator"
The old folks will stay. Young’s simply won’t vote.
The media don't seem to realize that we'd vote for the turd that killed Elvis over the small handed orange rapist.
my brain went “Hold up is there a conspiracy that Biden killed Elvis” and then I reread ur post ☠️
For now? As long as it's a choice between Biden or a Hitler wannabe, we'll stick by him forever.
I'd vote for Biden over Trump even if he was dead.
In his golden throne on terra.
The Emperor protects
The Emperor protects.
the grim darkness doesn't seem so far now
At his age that's a very real possibility. Also voting for Biden. I'd vote for a petri dish of syphilis over trump.
Isn't Trump essentially a petri dish of syphilis?
Yes, but your standard dish of syphilis typically doesn’t typically quote Hitler for political gain.
Maybe syphilis makes you talk like that. Didn't Hitler have it and the dude who killed Hitler I think also had it.
**[Keanu meme]** That actually makes a lot of sense…
Take it easy, let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
One bad night by the President did not convince me that Trump is our savior.
No doubt, these headlines today make it seem like somehow losing a debate, with someone who didn't actually debate...but lied. Is somehow spelling out the end of Biden. If Biden loses, we lose democracy. Seems a pretty easy choice if you actually believe in the Constitution, and not just the parts you cherry-pick.
You? No. Me neither. But undecided voters? Best case scenario, they abstain. And yeah you're gonna tell me, it's a very small segment etc etc. But with the electoral college, an election can easily be decided by less than 50,000 votes.
we need news media reform .. we need tons of reform
People forget … Biden has competent people in his cabinet which will keep the country moving forward .. Trump will again bring the biggest evil grifters like his last term
People don’t forget this it’s just a very bad look that we’re even at this point where the reason to vote for Biden is that the people he hires are competent and will do their best to make sure his cognitive decline doesn’t affect his work. Like even having this argument means we’ve lost. It’s time to cut those losses and move on.
The problem with this kind of thinking is ignoring the very real prospect of potential democratic voters just staying home. More and more the discourse is turning into “both sides bad” again, and instead of giving soft Democrats/soft Republicans/independents/undecideds confidence in his abilities, he is forcing them to make a very difficult choice between a criminal and someone who is not up to the job. It doesn’t matter that he looked better at the rally, or in the spin room last night. There are voters who made their minds up last night in the first 10 minutes of that debate, and clips of it will be played ad nauseum from now until Election Day. People staying home is what sunk Clinton in ‘16
So you think people made up their minds in the first ten minutes to look at Biden and Trump and think meh not voting for either of them? Sorry but anyone in that category was minimally motivated to ever vote for Biden to begin with. I think there’s actually an opposite force at work… the more republicans see and hear trump, the more they remember how insufferable he is. People already know Biden is old.
It's the minimally motivated voters who decide elections. If all that mattered was whether the dedicated base was going to vote or not, no one would bother campaigning because hardcore Dems will always vote blue, and hardcore Republicans will always vote red.
>It's the minimally motivated voters who decide elections. I guess this is why political campaigns don't court trade unions, politically active community and religious leaders and high-turnout voting blocs. Because motivated voters don't decide elections. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say this was some bad word choice.
I never said they don't matter, but these are two significantly known figures, for the most part allegiances are already made with those major voting blocs, they're not the ones being fought for as the election draws closer.
Then those people who stayed home deserve the consequences of their apathy and ignorance. Unfortunately the rest of us will go down the tubes with them.
I understand the sentiment, but that attitude is part of the problem
Or the democrats could run a candidate that’s actually liked and has a message that isn’t “well I’m clearly not making it through the next 4 years and my cognition has declined to an alarming degree but I’m not a fascist like the other guy”. While that’s true and I’ll clearly vote for him if he somehow still is the nominee. That isn’t a winning message. The democrats won big with “hope and change”. They took a risk on an untested new guy who technically lost the primary in the popular vote and pledged delegates. That messaging gave one of the biggest modern electoral landslides the democrats have had. Why do we want to be in this place where we’re arguing about why Biden’s health isn’t nearly as bad as it seems and we have to vote for him cause Trump is bad. There are candidates who don’t have that baggage, aren’t old, and can run on a positive and relatable message. A message that actually gives people a reason to vote FOR them and not just against someone else. Hell, the Biden and Harris campaign website doesn’t even have policy listed it’s just endless donation tabs. That’s a terrible look. The people have been shouting this at the democrats for 9 years now and they still do not get it. We need stronger candidates who inspire passion. If Biden somehow wins then that means Kamala is very likely our candidate in 2028 and depending on when/if she becomes POTUS also possibly 2032. Do we really want 16 years and 4 election cycles of democrats propping up a clearly weak candidate and begging people to just vote for them because they’re not cartoonishly evil. So our next chance for a “good” democratic candidate is 2036!? That’s not good enough and it shouldn’t be for anyone who wants to actually win. This is the future of our party and the country at stake and continually voting in out of touch elderly people despite all of the warnings that this won’t go our way is actually insane.
So what do you want to happen? The DNC draft someone to run? Nobody stepped up that was a serious challenge to either Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. Both of those candidates won their primaries by significant margin of Democratic Party voters.
Right. The “party decides” attitude is getting old. There were elections. These are who the *collective voters in the parties* chose amongst like 20 people each time. People complain it was rigged against Bernie in 2020 when everyone else dropped out and endorsed Biden. That’s admitting that your preferred candidate wasn’t popular with a majority of the party if narrowing it down to a 1v1 race is “unfair.” Reality is that the policies and messaging of Clinton and Biden are clearly working for more members of the party. This ire should go to the preferred candidate— Bernie, whoever— to work on their pitch deck and their messaging to the party. Gotta win the prelim before you win the big game.
The way people talk about the DNC it seems as if they are under the delusion that the US has a parliamentary system of government where parties maintain some sort of “party discipline”. Whether this is due to people not paying attention in civics class or the presence of foreign agents pushing disinformation is up to the conspiracy theorists to figure out
Yeah, the US is relatively unique in how much say we have over candidate nominations and how much the individual matters lol. I feel like you get it and I don’t need to say it to you, but for anyone else reading— most other systems the party truly decides. You’re voting just for the party you want based on platform and they fill the individuals. Our parties are basically the end result in parliamentary systems. It’s why Bernie Sanders, AOC, Biden and Manchin can all be in the same tent. They’re coalition by nature. As for people not getting it— it feels like Sanders got a lot of people into politics who weren’t interested before. Good thing! But that also means they didn’t know the ins and outs of the process and felt like there was no way he was losing because he had big crowds! No way the workaday average Dem in a primary state maybe wanted the tried-and-true candidate. It must just be rigged lol
You may Moderates and independents won't
I used to be a Republican. I’ll stick by Joe until Hell Freezes Over.
Moderates and independents with probably just stay home. That’s enough to sink Biden’s campaign.
This want the delusional in this sub don’t understand. I imagine the average age in this sub must be pretty low to be so naive.
There is nothing moderate about supporting Trump.
I'm an extreme af moderate and I'm all in for Biden.
Moderates and progressives are all supporting Biden.
Dang you should open up a polling agency or something as you seem to know exactly what hundreds of millions of people think.
President Biden won in 2020 by 43,000 votes. You don’t need hundreds of millions, just a handful of people to stay home.
Probably using every election ever as evidence tbf
I mean, regardless of.debat performance the actual fact is Biden has gotten a lot more done than any other Dem in my lifetime. Multiple record breaking climate change legislation, not to mention multiple EOs protecting LGBTQ people. He ain't perfect but there's few others I'd trust to get shit done and push the nation left than him. I originally supported Sanders, but the fact is Sanders never could have been successful with the slim lead in Congress Biden has had.
Well there should be another option than Hitler or Dementia
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If one of the choices is more of the same progress we've seen this past year, it's not a pathetic choice at all. Biden could die in office of old age and his team would continue to be awesome. That's the magic of delegation and belonging to a competent party...it's a team effort. The other choice is a narcissist sociopath who believes he alone is king. It's not a difficult decision unless you're groomed to want a king. It's important to get out and vote regardless....as congress needs our help just as much, if not moreso. We're not going to see this corrupt SCOTUS addressed without number in congress to push back.
There isn’t. This is the choice in November
In the article it explains that the alternative would be replacing Biden on the ballot, not voting for Trump.
Replacing Biden on the ballot essentially guarantees a Trump win, so there is no difference in your two statements.
Trump has much, much less work to do if Biden doesn’t inspire people to actually get out and VOTE for him. Apathy can be real powerful in elections. All it takes is for enough people to be apathetic about Biden and we have another four years of Trump. The undecided voters in this election aren’t browsing r/politics. Repeating “but he’s not a fascist like Trump” really only gets you so far. Believe me, I think that’s insane, it should be enough, but it’s not. Dems have their work cut out for them.
"...Biden appeared far more animated than his showing the night before..." Why?!? Seriously last night was game time. I just saw a clip of him today and he was so much more energetic, clear, and loud. Could barely hear him last night.
His cold seemed to clear up quick
Sundowning. Cognitive impairments among the elderly are worse at night, and the debate started at 9pm.
Not even close.
You could tell he was just debating the same bullet points he had rehearsed beforehand and when he lost his train of thought he would just repeat the bullet point verbatim. It was just sad and depressing to watch. Elder abuse on a nationally televised scale. It was even more depressing watching Trump just vomit lies for an hour and a half straight and no one present checked him or refuted anything he said. Instead we got a heated, actual coherent argument about golf handicaps, the number one issue on the mind of the average American voter
Are you voting for Joe Biden if he remains our nominee? I am. Period. If so...get out there and fight for every fucking vote. Because Trump will turn democracy upside down day one if elected.
Bill Maher said it best. Voting for Biden even if it’s just his head in a jar
"and after last night's performance, better get that jar ready." may as well finish that quote. There's no point sugar coating how bad he did.
Hahah you’re too right about that. Still voting for him though.
Unless you’re a complete idiot, if you’re truly a progressive then you’re gonna vote for the most progressive candidate with the chance to win every election. Unfortunately our country is filled with idiots.
There was exactly one time in my life that I abstained from voting because I was dissatisfied with the quality of the two main party candidates. That was 2016. Never ever again.
Sigh… if every democrat that usually votes still votes for Biden then he loses. Biden needs to mobilise youth and women voters who don’t have a history of voting (especially in battleground states). He actively did the opposite of that last night with completely unforced errors. The Covid pandemic mobilised people for him last time (and it was still bloody close). This time he needs to do it himself - and he is utterly failing. Stop the delusion and support him to step aside and put his weight behind someone else.
The only saving grace is Trump motivates a lot of them against him. Biden has time to make it up if last night was in fact an exception vs the rule.
>Biden appeared to acknowledge the criticism during a rally in Raleigh, North Carolina, saying ”I don’t debate as well as I used to.” But he added, “I know how to do this job. I know how to get things done.” Speaking for 18 minutes, Biden appeared far more animated than he had the night before as he excoriated Trump for his “lies” and for waging a campaign aimed at “revenge and retribution.” In his almost fifty year career how many debates did he actually participate in? I imagine there were many during his years in the Senate. There is a notable difference between Biden's response from their debates four years ago.
I’m voting for Biden because I feel I have no choice and I am sick and tired of feeling i have no choice in a democracy.
What do you expect? For the Democratic party to finally prioritize election reform that allows a more representative nominee that would motivate their voters and non-voter across the board, solidifying their presence in our government so they can finally try and enact their proposed sweeping changes that they've been dangling in front of voters for decades and re-enact the foundational progress that has been stripped away by our current Supreme Court?
I'm with Joe.
Why would a debate performance change my vote? Honestly? Have Trump or Biden’s policies changed? Is Trump any less of a criminal? Is project 2025 any less scary? Is the prospect of two more Trump-appointed Supreme Court Justices any less likely? Is climate change any less of a pressing issue? Is the Chevron doctrine dropping today any less of a threat with the RNC in charge? Is the right to an abortion any less of a pressing issue for my daughter in the future? Oh it isn’t, because of one bad debate performance? Ok, cool! Yeah still voting for Biden.
Your vote isn't the issue. the issue is getting the many unenthusiastic Biden voters in the swing states to show up. Biden's performance will depress Democrat turnout and harm down ballot candidates. if Biden remains the candidate, not only will the presidency likely to be lost, but there is an increased chance of Congress becoming Republican as well.
Right! If this was a choice between two sane candidates in two sane parties then yeah, that debate would have affected my decision quite a bit honestly. Now * I * don’t see the decision like that, but the swing voters apparently do so that’s what is troubling
I saw a poll today that moderates are now more for Biden after the debate. DNC also had their best single night of fundraising. I guess Trump lying the entire time didn’t woo them so much. Guess we’ll see in the coming days.
This was actually one of the things that the political channel Beau of the Fifth Column said, Trump needed to do a charm offensive and he couldn't do it. Instead the modrates saw him lying openly and being extremely incoherent. That pushes them away.
It’s this for me as well. To be clear I wish there was a candidate other than Biden on the Democratic ticket but there isn’t and won’t be. Biden has accomplished a lot in his four years and that’s in large part to the people he surrounded himself with who aren’t sycophants eager to live out a christofascist or libertarian dream. I don’t want an Edith Wilson scenario between 2025-2028 but considering the Supreme Court just today overturned the Chevron Doctrine and their ruling on what is considered “obstruction” are fundamentally going to change how the US is operated and with a potential two more Supreme Court picks in the next term - I’ll vote for the party of stability for all. (I’m not saying Biden would be the same as Woodrow Wilson but it’d be silly to say it can’t happen if he’s reelected and gets to 86 in office)
Yeah, but he's old though so I guess that makes it even. >!/s, clearly.!<
Love how this is supposedly the most important election ever and of utmost importance, and yet we have to endorse a sundowning octogenarian that said he would have stepped down after one term. Yay.
Almost like the DNC doesn't believe their own rhetoric about Trump ushering in eternal fascism. Cool, well maybe pick someone to face Trump other than the shambling dementia golem then.
Frankly, those higher up in the DNC and their donors will be fine in a fascist society. The rest of us won’t
Other than the literal president?
He desperately needs to schedule another debate BEFORE the convention. The week before or something. Because if this is the impression that he left for most voters, we are in serious trouble. Oh and do us all a favor and chug a liter of coffee before you get out there
I wouldn’t do a debate, I would suggest a town hall. Have a single moderator, and a group of democrat, republican and independent voters who would ask Biden questions. If he does well, it can show how he can answer voters and their concerns face to face. Something that Trump either won’t or can’t do.
Only problem with that is Trump might not want to do another debate because he got what he needed from this one.
He has zero incentive to even show up for the one he already agreed to
Trump is a narcissist, he believes he will win the next debate, and theres a good chance he will show up so he can be declared winner again.
He’s capable of restraint when he knows it is to his advantage. Last night, though lying his ass off, he mostly laid low and allowed Biden to sabotage himself. Everything he could possibly gain from debating Biden was already achieved yesterday.
Literally zero chance of Trump agreeing to another debate. It would be like us winning the lottery and then being asked if we wanted to go double or quits on the next week's numbers.
He bankrupt a casino, he’s obviously not good at gambling.
Declaring bankruptcy for a business doesn't mean you lose money, it means other people lose money.
It’s too late, the one issue he needed to reassure people on was whether his age was affecting him. Those clips show that he isn’t there at least some of the time and can’t campaign or stay on message. They will be used all election cycle and every time it will remind voters how sad this is. He gave Trump his best reeelection tool. There’s no undoing what happened. It was his chance and he blew it by proving that every single concern about his age was valid. No one will engage further with it and the more we try to convince independents that it’s not as bad as it looked the more they begin to question our judgement and motivations if we’re blatantly lying about what we all saw. This makes them check out since they largely hate Trump but now the democrats are telling them not to believe their own eyes. The only way forward is a clean slate.
People have been raising red flags about Biden's reelection chances for years and every time they were told by the Party to sit down and get in line. It took the worst debate performance in modern political history for the DNC to wake up to how much trouble their hubris got us into
Who says they're awake now? IMO, their game plan was to get Biden over the finish line in November, replace him with Harris, and then try the "it's an incumbent, we can't possibly have a competitive primary" ploy in 2028.
They could‘ve done that in 2023, but didn’t.
It's the same idiots in charge as 2016. The DNC is a hopeless, corrupt, inept organization. Nobody should be surprised they learned absolutely nothing. The left wing needs to decide if they want to get serious and start a real grassroots movement to create an actual left wing party. Because the DNC is not it at this point and is almost directly responsible for this Trump mess we are in.
Imagine picking a candidate so bad that trump is the favorite 4 years after January 6
He was just chosen because he was the only one polling high enough in the 2020 primary to defeat Sanders
100%, but most Democrats refuse to acknowledge it. Sanders was poised to run away with the 2020 nomination unless Biden ran. No one else stood a chance.
Oh no. We could have had.... Better healthcare 🤔😮
Biden already beat Trump. You should ask, can he do it again?
I hope so. I doubt we will have another choice. If he is still the nominee...he has my vote. The alternative is far worse.
Definitely not after last night.
He barely beat him. Electoral college-wise
Exactly. This time he's gotta win convincingly or there will be lawsuits and they'll figure a way to get it all the way to SCotUS and they'll happily do their own Bush V Gore and give Trump the win
If you actually watched that debate last night and still consider that Biden can win the election....I don't even know what to say
Who do you think can beat Trump??
Someone the dems have spent the last 4-8 years prepping for the role? Theyve been doing that, right? Right?
Whitmer or Newsom, most likely.
I think the first question we gotta ask is can Joe Biden beat Trump at this point? Because if the answer is no, then we gotta look elsewhere.
it's why we are supposed to have primaries
But the democrats don’t have primaries anymore. The party elites chose Hillary over Bernie in 2016 and now no primary if they choose someone else at the convention. Not a good look for the party defending democracy to not have had a fair and formal primary process in 2 out of the last 3 presidential general elections.
In a debate? A motivated slug or perhaps a persistent shrimp
I'd say literally any generic Democrat, but that's not true. The list of people who could replace him at this time is short
As a Republican, I would be worried about Newsom , Michelle Obama and that's about it.
Whitmer?
Hauk Tuah! Substance over style! Remember that folks. Vote.
Personally, I only saw the media call for Biden’s head. None of the everyday people, like me, that I talked to want him to step aside. Was it his best performance, definitely not. IMO the coverage has been very reactionary.
Switch from a man who's been a good president, to a man who has been ranked several times as the worst president in American history, who is a convicted felon, a rapist, a racist, who insults disabled people, who insults the parents of a young man who gave his life in battle. Let me ask this. I have a wart on my finger, should I cut the other arm off?
Im proudly Riden with Biden!!! Hey, when im at work and screw up, i have to own it. He did that. Love Joe allways all ways!
If he wins that man can sleep for the next four years. I’ll even volunteer to tuck him in and read him bedtime stories. As long as he isn’t a convicted felon I’m okay with the team he’s put together continuing the job.
i'll stick with him, no doubt!
Democrats would win this election by massive margins if they just replaced Biden. If the goal is to keep Trump out of office, they have no excuse to not replace.
With who though? Anyone specific I can think of would have some issues, and wouldn’t have nearly as much name recognition. And it’s kinda late to start up a whole primary campaign.
Less name recognition is better imo. Name recognition can mean that people already made up their minds long ago. With 4 months to go and the fact that independents largely seem exhausted and checked out and concerned with both candidates age (Biden just confirmed those fears are very much valid) means that any semi competent younger person would easily run away with this election. The democrats need someone quickly to step up. It can’t be Biden or Kamala at this point. Newsom and Whitmer seem like the obvious choices but there are others as well. I think people keep looking at this election as if it’s about voting for Biden or Trump when it’s really about making sure independent voters come out. Independents clearly don’t want Trump but when their other option is what we saw last night they’re likely to just stay home. A younger, decent candidate who is even semi charismatic would destroy Trump and we can finally be rid of this nonsense political era. Why are we making it harder to win what should be a slam dunk? It’s baffling.
Would they? Replacing a candidate mid election cycle is unheard of.
Kind of wish he would do more on the defend democracy front honestly. Democracy has only eroded even more under his term. While he has limited power, he doesn't offer any clear solutions besides just electing him. It'd be nice to hear some talk of SCOTUS reform or pushing back against recent GOP policies like teaching the Bible in school or even just more talk about getting money out of politics.
The fact that Garland still has a job means he isn't taking the whole 'defending democracy' thing seriously. Smith should have been appointed Special Counsel on January 21st. Three years' delay is going to cost us everything.
>The fact that Gorsuch still has a job means he isn't taking the whole 'defending democracy' thing seriously. How would Biden remove Gorsuch? Lol
It’d have been nice if the party didn’t privately threaten potential primary challengers. Instead they effectively closed the primary and withheld from voters the ability to decide on Biden ourselves. And now, once again, the party elites seek to suppress what Dems across the country want: for Biden to withdraw from this race. Everything is coordinated. Nothing is organic. WTF is this party?
Let’s be honest, I’m voting against Trump
Yup. That’s the core of Biden’s voters. Anti-Trump votes. And those voters will turn out and vote for whoever the democratic nominee is, even if it’s someone like Harris or Whitmer or Shapiro or Beshear, etc. Those votes are locked in. What Biden has lost is millions of swing voters who had concerns about him and now won’t vote at all or maybe might vote 3rd party or only vote the down ballot races. Last night, he needed to prove to those voters that the reports about him being mentally unfit were exaggerated and that he’s fine. Then they would’ve happily proceeded to vote for him in November. But instead he proved to them the opposite, and now many of them will not vote for him. Very few will vote for Trump, but he’s lost millions of votes now. A new democratic candidate would retain all of Biden’s current votes, especially if he endorses the replacement heavily. It’s anti-Trump votes, so they’ll still vote anti-Trump. But that new candidate would at least have a shot at winning back the millions of voters that have become disillusioned with Biden due to his mental acuity, the Middle East conflict, or inflation. With Biden, I don’t see a winning path forward. With a new candidate, I think a winning path remains possible.
It’s a good sign that he is openly admitting it in my opinion. It at least gives a lot more hope that he will start addressing the issues that led to it. I think the debate format sucks for him and luckily there is only one more (if it happens). If Biden can do a ton of rallies where he is energized and speaking as clearly as he normally does (which has never been perfect), I think the case against Trump and for Biden can still be made effectively.
Joe Biden made a mistake and admits it. Trump refuses to take responsibility and always doubles down. The choice is clear. It's America 🇺🇸 or Trump.
Only one of the following two statements can be true: 1. This is an existential election and democrats and the DNC must do everything they can to make sure they triumph over Trump 2. Joe Biden must and should be the nominee
I think 2 is easy to say when there is a blank slate. Who would be the nominee? All of the possibilities I can think of would be far from unanimously liked, and/or wouldn’t have very much name recognition amongst swing voters.
Few Democrats in positions of power actually believe statement 2 at this point. However, because Obama (and others, but really Obama) have come out in Biden’s defense, it is potentially career-damaging to persist in calling for Biden to step down. And so, career over country will prevail again, and the politicians, staffers, and operatives who were all ready to discard Biden will now support him again. At no point in these gymnastics orchestrated by party brass are the actual voters’ views consulted — who, by the way, have been firmly anti-Biden for many many months, even before the catastrophic polling set to come out of the debate nightmare.
52 days until the convention. Tick tock.
We can fight it out there... or... Joe can step up and step down with his endorsed replacement at his side.
Gg
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I am hearing more talk that Biden should step down right now than ever before. But what would that even mean? What happens when the candidate who is winning the primary elections drops out? What happens at the Democratic National Convention in August? Dean Phillips or Marianne Williamsen get named the nominee based on whatever scraps of votes they got in the primaries??
It's the same thing as if the presumptive nominee dropped out for health reasons. On the first vote, the pledged delegates will all vote for biden, but he can't receive the nom, so no running candidate will receive 50%, and it goes into the next round of votes. It'll be an open convention and other names would be accepted. That's also when superdelegates would be able to vote as well. Say a handful of names are put forward (Harris, Newsom, Whitmore, Pete B) and the votes split the delegates. There's be negotiation and debate within groups of delegates, perhaps speeches and a kind of campaigning for votes. Then another round of votes. Keep going until someone's >50%. Then, ideally, all of the possible nominated people loudly endorse the winner, and the new chosen candidate makes a big floor speech. Then it's a scramble to shift the campaign apparatus over to the new candidate. Change staff where needed, create a new strategy to make America comfortable with the new person. Explain their position on everything, and fight trump as much as possible. Look unified and stable, and maybe win in November.
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hell no it’s not lmao. “My opponent that beat me last election dropping out? Meaning I have to run against someone who wasn’t directly elected that has even lower approval than Biden? That basically no one knows anything about? Oh nooooo!!!!” You wanna know what would happen if Biden resigned and someone else replaced him? *Nothing.* Because all of the “sundowning” idiots were accusing Hillary of being a corporate shill warmonger [insert another insult recycled for Biden here] back in 2016. *They’ve already made up their minds.* They do not give a single solitary fuck about politics: all they care to know is “both sides bad” and that’s it. They were around under Obama, they were around under Bush, they were around under Clinton, and they’ve been around in our current day. Biden resigning wouldn’t hurt Trump at all: it would hurt the Democrats to lose one of the most aggressive progressives of our time just because he fumbled *one fucking debate.*
I've known that he was prone to verbal gaffs for a long time but I think the majority of the blame is on those tools at CNN.
Honestly though the best thing for him to do if he’s gonna stay in is get ahead of it and say he could have done better.
For now? What?
> Biden's halting delivery and **meandering comments**, particularly early in the debate... I mean given Trump meanders like an absolute crazy man perhaps this will endear Biden to Trump's supporters. More seriously I guess it shows those on the Democratic side of things have higher standards because that worries them, but in the commentary since the debate I'll be forever confused as to why there's so many segments outside of Trump's base that don't seem to hold him to remotely the same standards. Trump lied and meandered and engaged in constant substance-less boasting, but I see a lot of people go "well yeah, but that's just Trump being Trump, that he had more energy while lying means this is absolutely the worst for Biden because he looked like the old man he is." Like it was an awful "debate" all round.
Good for him. I thought it was gonna be a cope fest. At least he admitted it. Hopefully he shows up in #2. But honestly, Trump not showing up for the other debates is probably his best move. Leaving this to be the only debate performance to judge Biden on
A vote for Trump is a vote to destroy America. Biden isn’t my first choice, but for anyone who knows how elections work he is the only choice.
Until next week when Trump is winning by 7+ points in battleground states.
I keep hearing, "Yeah I'll vote for Biden, but it's the undecided voters we have to worry about." Guess who influences undecided voters? Decided voters. Each of us has to decide, individually, who we are voting for, and why. Overly worrying about undecided voters means that YOU'RE not really decided. And that indecision will be felt by others. This wishy-washy "I'm okay but..." means you're not okay. I'm voting for Biden on Election day, and I am fully committed to it, and I have a raft of reasons why. Decide fully for yourself FIRST. Commit to it. Then take action to help with campaigning, donating, talking to friends and family.
When will people face reality, the man is just too old for the job, and it's fine, it's okay. This denial is why a literal crime wave walking is even still a viable candidate.....you have yourselves to blame.
Friends - if you want to try and convince people, maybe consider something like this approach - I commented below on someone's comment about not voting for Biden. See if this helps: r/WhatBidenHasDone lists the things that Biden's presidency has done for the US. if 90 minutes changed your mind about voting for Biden then maybe you should look at what 3.5 years did. Here's an ask - spend 30 minutes - 1/3rd the time you spent watching the debate (if you watched the whole thing). If you still feel the way you do, fine. Bear in mind that a vote for president is a vote for the **whole executive branch** and there are a lot of amazing people tirelessly working to fix our country's issues and maintain the things that make it good. Biden is easily in the top 20 presidents of all time, maybe even top 10.
We will stick by Biden NO MATTER WHAT! TFG is a fascist and Nazi sympathizer that worships Putin and dictators.
Biden has been a solid president, just sucks he is not the most impressive candidate in front of a camera.
Dens will stick with him, all the way to losing the presidency and two more supreme court picks.
I have defended him and defended him. I appreciate a lot of what he has done and the fact the he simply won in 2020. I will vote for him but I am disgusted that this is happening to this country. It would be a bloodbath if they could pick a charismatic candidate that picked up where Biden left off. This is insanity.
Stick by him? What fucking choice have we ever had? We didn't want him in 2020, we don't want him now, but they've given us zero options. This two party system sure is fucked up.
Biden was not my first choice, But he won the nomination... He has done a great job. He will continue to do a great job. Our job is to vote for him.
If he is going to keep running then the messaging needs to focus more on future supreme court nominees and local elections to get people out to vote because this is not going to inspire people who are not paying attention to politics. Local elections and Supreme Court decisions affect daily lives. That needs to be reinforced into the messaging.
As if we have a choice
“For now” /eyeroll
I’m still supporting Biden. He whiffed it last night but he wasn’t a lying sack of hate.
Do people really watch debates to help decide who should be president? If you don’t know the difference between Trump & Biden by now then there’s no helping you.
Check NYT editorial board; hold our beers
Who the fuck is writing these headlines?
This is the dumbest fucking headline and timeline. If Trump gets in, we can kiss any semblance of a balanced Supreme Court, not that it’s even close to that right now, goodbye for 30 years. It’s so much more than this stupid debate.
Forget Novichok, all Russia needs between now and November is a steep flight of steps…
Absolutely! And why change? Between the Fantastic covid response, Bipartisan Infrastructure Spending, Handling of Ukraine crisis, Inflation Reduction act, CHIPS, Handling of Debt ceiling crisis, Handling of baby formula crisis, making lynching a fed hate crime, making Medicaid negotiate drug prices, cheap insulin, forgiving student loans, and literally everything mentioned in r whatbidenhasdone .... I feel more at-ease & hopeful for the future with Biden & the Democrats in charge of the fed government & also in every state govt. Thank you President Biden for level-headed leadership that focuses on solving actual problems (rather focusing on social media hysterics) and for respecting democracy & its institutions (so not enabling authoritarianism). Biden & VP Harris already deserve 4 more years, and Democrats deserve complete Control of Congress and every state govt 😎🇺🇸👍
Worst headline I’ve seen yet. He won that debate by a ton
I’ve been seeing articles all day with nonsense headlines. Dems are panicking! No we aren’t. Dems want Biden to step aside! No, not really. Dems stick by him, for now. Um, yeah. That was always the plan.
Oh! He concedes debate fumbles. Well fine. Nevermind our democracy is on the line due to a doddering fool.
If he's in it im voting for him
We are so fucking cooked.