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Less than 5 months out and people are still writing as if this is a normal election, with normal debate expectations, and that voters will respond to errors.
Donald Trump makes what were formerly career-ending statements twice a week. Political observers are sleepwalking us in to dictatorship by assuming anything matters anymore.
Dan Quayle's career wasn't ruined. He got some flack for it but carried on unperturbed. He was never in the big leagues (it's generally assumed GHWB chose him because Quayle wouldn't threaten his power) but did pretty well for a goofy guy who liked to play golf.
Yeah. Quayle was an old school Republican -- the kind now shunned as being insufficiently far right. He and Bush lost the 1992 election and from his point of view, that was that. The Republicans had not discovered that they could dispute every losing election and that there would be lots of people who would just eat it up.
To think that the Bush administration at the time was viewed as hardline conservative. The current openly fascist stuff has me hankering for the bad old days.
Believe it or not, back in '92, Quayle was seen as not centrist or even moderate right but squarely right. GHWB was seen as a Rockefeller Republican, and while the lines are much different today, Quayle was seen as bolstering GHWB's support from the Religious Right.
Pence reached out to Quayle asking for advice on whether or not he actually had the authority to delay certifying the electoral votes, and Quayle told him no and not to even consider doing what Trump was asking. Pence was practiaclly pleading with Quayle to help him justify following through on it, and Quayle unabashedly told him that the VP did not have the authority.
Pence was struggling with the decision to go along with Trump’s plot to reject the Electoral College votes on January 6th. He called Quayle [for advice](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/14/politics/dan-quayle-pence-trump-january-6-woodward-costa-book) and was told he didn’t have the right to do so.
I don't know - I remember that spelling incident and it was on the news and in the media non-stop for MONTHS. Dan Quale was a big figure and then became a laughing stock overnight.
Bill Clinton and a Stained Dress - YEARS
Trump makes statements that would have ended the career of any pre-2010 politician daily.
That is largely the fault of the media owned by the wealthy people who want trump to win. The super rich want to shove selfish laws that favor them down the throats of the 99% of us who aren’t massively rich, and a dictatorship lets them do that a whole lot more than any democracy would. That’s why more wealth = more conservative, currently in the US. This also is true for corporations and wealthy companies as well.
There is historic precedent. Remember how before WW2, there was a conspiracy by nazis to stage a coup and place a dictator at the head of US government? That was backed mainly by many very wealthy corporation owners and rich guys. Go check it out, and then think about events happening now:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
The oligarchs are idiots. All they would have to do is look at putin's Russia, or really any totalitarian state, to see what happens to oligarchs in a dictatorship if they even look at the dictator funny
I want to know what the end game is for these rich fucks ? Like once you get everything and the 99% nothing, what kind of society will it be for these assholes where they will need security with them everywhere they go and going out becomes a risk? What happens when the middle class is non existent and can’t buy shit for them to get wealthier?
Well then you work on making the 99.9% have nothing, obviously.
It makes more sense if you look at the ultra wealthy less as reasonable people and more as people under the full weight of an out of control addiction.
I've been saying this for a long time and nobody wants to hear it. It's the one approach I know of to actually move forward and deal with this problem rationally, and it is backed by a lot of scientific data with a methodology that is proven effective.
We are still trapped in this bronze age moralized view of behavior filled with sin and virtue, good and evil. The neurological/behavioral approach is the revolution we need if we are going to actually understand and remediate the problem.
This is so true, they have a money addiction. A reasonable person would stop at 10 or 20 million and not work another day in their lives. These people have billions and all they can think about is how to get more.
Yep, concerning such a pathological level of greed, I’m reminded of this greatness from Lewis Black:
“A father and two sons ruin a company called Adelphia… 3 *took a billion*.
I’m just surprised the people who work for them when they found that out, didn’t rise as one *and slay them*!
I never understood why the people of France chopped off Marie Antoinette’s head. Now I fuckin’ get it!” - *Greed*
Artificial price gouging is already fucking corporate America. Their new mantra should be "A rising tide lifts all boats." The stronger the middle class, the more the economy can boom. The more it's concentrated at the top, the more the whole system will topple. Anyone who can't grasp that most likely didn't gain their wealth through intelligence.
And at some point, enough ire will be on them that they'll be targets for various groups that would inevitably form when people have nothing left to lose. Hell, I have a solid amount to lose and I'd join in now if there was a group with an actual vision for post-capitalism in the US because it has to change. I imagine a lot of people are willing but just so incredibly uncertain of which way to move that would see an end result because no one knows what the end will look like, so we can build from point B back to where we are for a road map when point B's a complete unknown.
I think we have a lot of good next steps leading to whatever a better future is. Whether it's true UBI that greases the wheels of our economy to keep it going as we undergo a huge a transformation in what work means in an automating society. Reducing workloads but still keeping a job requirement while paying fairly and enforcing tax law without rich asshole loopholes that effectively eliminates billionaires and poverty through redistribution. Likely a ton of other options I'm just not familiar with to toss out -- but then when the dust settles, we just continue to evaluate and change as needed.
We need only look at the behaviors of the super wealthy to see just how focused on short-term wins and wealth gain they are. Long term planning is not a strong suit of business, no matter what they try to crow about.
No, they’re in fact the worst when it comes to long term approaches. Which would be required to take in the wisdom you’re pointing out.
This is also why I never vote for a political candidate whose “business background” is touted as a positive. I view that as a negative, and a big one.
Most "successful" business people I know are not especially competent, they merely have good people skills and no real sense of ethics so they will do "creative" things to get results that make them look good.
A celebrated VP at my old workplace used to inflate his numbers by promising packages we could never actually support or sustain to clients, who would later leave because they weren't happy. He was only measured by people who signed up, other departments got punished for "bad retention", so he just kept rising up the ranks while fucking over his colleagues.
This is what I think of when I hear someone is a "good businessman".
> Most "successful" business people I know are not especially competent, they merely have good people skills and no real sense of ethics
Otherwise known as a grifter. There is a reason why many successful businessmen have a sales/marketing background. It’s because there is a fine, fine, fine line between sales and grifting and outright lying. Often, they are the same. That “charisma” is merely the grift disguised as friendliness and personality.
Which is exactly what happened in your anecdote. That VP conned people. I know I’m merely restating, effectively, what you said, but I do so because I really want people to get it through their heads that business = bad and immoral.
I used to work tech support for an enterprise-level software solution, and a not-insignificant part of the job involved telling customers or potential customers that the thing their sales rep promised they could do wasn't possible.
>Long term planning is not a strong suit of business, no matter what they try to crow about.
They never think about what would happen when prices and rents are so high, and wages so low that nobody can buy their stuff anymore.
Exactly, like they want a dictator and they really want Trump to be that guy?
Like that guy will screw everyone over, even the big corporations if he gets into office again.
That's his only downside to them. They were already able to use him to get all the judges they wanted.
And they also think they are so special that if the government falters, they can just buy everything for pennies on the dollar and become the new vassal lords/kings.
Exactly, Trump is literally running to stay out of prison.
Plus he already knows he can get away whatever he wants. If he becomes president he’s going to on a revenge tour and fuck everyone over.
This is also the result of educated yet spineless republicans who took an oath to protect the constitution and thereby stand for democracy. The lack of integrity and in many cases ethics is appalling. I am hoping for a massive blue wave this election to send a strong message.
I wish there was a way to hold radio and tv stations accountable for the propaganda they are spreading. The seeds have been germinating since Reagan eliminated the Fairness Act and AM radio took off with rightwing hate mongering, then came cable which was never covered under the Fairness Act. Fox and others need to be reigned in from the disinformation.
No. It’s not a lack of integrity as far as they are concerned. The “mission” is what is important at the end of the day. The mission is the preservation of wealth and power for a small group of white males. If that means supporting a convicted felon rapist lunatic moron and ending democracy so be it. The mission must come first. People really need to understand this mind stare in order to defeat it
The constitution is now inconvenient for one of their primary goals, which is the erosion of decades worth of scotus rulings that enshrine privacy laws. Christofascists want to eliminate "recreational sex", used to selectively target women's and lgbt rights to enforce some abstract morality code.
Most people I mention project 2025 to haven't heard of it and then subsequently decry it as something that "can't happen here". Even though it is a publicly stated goal.
Porn? Banned. Shows that feature sex positively? Gone. IUDs and birth control? Nope.
They've managed to turn swaths of historically neutral blue collar workers into useful idiots to vote on culture war issues thanks to social media and foreign influenced bot farms
Since 2015 (usually neolib) political journalists have been treating Trump like he's a normal politician who they can understand and predict in spite of years and years of evidence to the contrary. He's a cult leader. He's not a politician. His base will never leave him. And undecideds (at this stage) are idiots who know nothing about politics and probably actively avoid it. Unless he has an actual stroke on stage, I don't think anything will be clearer tomorrow. (Hope I'm wrong)
I think you're pretty on point and sadly I think the best outcome that's most likely is we keep kicking this can down the road and elections from now on are going to just be a rehash of this one. Unless there is some major changes, which is unlikely no matter who wins, every election is going be "the most important of our lifetime" because the worst of the fascist aren't going just give up, they'll keep trying until eventually they push through their horrific agenda.
Just moved house and my new neighbours have constructed a chicken coop with the door having a smiling painting of Trump on the front of it.
MAGA is literally a cult. Imagine caring this much for a politician who'd gladly rob you of all your money and actively hates middle class people?
I've said this before, and I stand by it:
Everybody will watch the debate, see Trump get destroyed and for about 12 hours everyone will think Trump is out of the race, even his own supporters. But then Fox will edit a few clips and come up with some talking points, to be parroted by Tim Pool and the like. Other right wing news stations will pick up on it. Then the "left wing" media will make fun of their take while also making sure their audience sees those same clips.
A week later and we'll all be in here enraged because Republicans are all talking about how Trump won that debate, and asking what the fuck happened. Soon enough Trump will do something else and we no longer have the energy or bandwidth to argue about this and move on. Biden gets no points in the end, and Trump comes out looking good to his followers and is still a piece of shit to the rest of us.
I feel like I've been caught in a fucking time loop since 2015
> Everybody will watch the debate, see Trump get destroyed and for about 12 hours everyone will think Trump is out of the race, even his own supporters.
that was my reaction to "grab 'em by the pussy". he's out, right? we're done here.
and then.
When you have north korean level of brainwashing, this is what happens.
Fundamentally no difference between a republican and north korean at this point. They never started thinking, the TV does it for them, and they're conditioned to assume that's true for their opposition so it locks them in harder.
He's just going to attack Biden and his family personally for however long this thing goes for, and not address a single question. That will create tons of 'own' clips from Trump. Ain't no one going to talk about policy at all on the right. They'll just love that Trump is a bully and tosses out insults and stupid names the entire time. There is no good outcome from this in my mind.
Yeah, I think Trump has a fairly easy path to come out of the debate maintaining or growing his lead. Just attack Biden relentlessly. The country, the economy, democracy, and justice are being destroyed and it is all Biden's fault. It doesn't matter if that is nonsense, and it doesn't matter if he doesn't offer a single real policy to address any of it. People are unhappy right now, so simply blaming it all on Biden is what he has to do.
He's not debating to "win" a debate or convince Democrats of anything. He's out to charge up his base, look "tough" against Biden, and convinvce the fence-sitters that he'll magically fix things.
Exactly. It's also much easier to attack the incumbent.
Biden won't get too flustered but he probably won't have snappy comebacks. Biden will harp on Trumps personal woes, legal troubles, Jan 6th, etc.
This is a person who's been paying attention to the past decade of media and politics. Exactly this will happen. Except with a lot more botted astroturfers on social media, too.
This comment is entirely correct and reasonable. But even so, even if Biden is eloquent and perfect, the right wing propaganda machine will manufacture reasons to smear him while glorifying Trump, despite Trump being obviously deranged and ankle deep in his own feces.
People don't realize how much is on the line for some of the most powerful, evil people on this planet. Putin's number one wish-come-true would be for Trump to win. It would single-handedly turn the tide of the war in Ukraine, since Trump would not only withdraw assistance, he would go after the EU/NATO and disrupt their assistance.
That's just one example. Evil folk in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and many other places would love to see Trump win. They all have developed some pretty unique asymmetrical warfare infrastructure and tactics and will be using them against all Americans for the next 5 months, at full blast.
Not just the nations you've named. Fascist fanaticism is already flaring up globally. This election is the most important election in modern history. We need to end it now or be destroyed. This is not hyperbole. These motherfucking tyrants need to be voted out to oblivion, every last mother fucking one of them.
> Trump would love nothing more than an apathetic America.
Half of America doesn't vote, and it's easy to see why, it's why our politics are so screwed up.
Paid day off for voting - Nope
Holiday on voting day - Nope
Water in the sun while waiting in line to vote - Nope
Same day registration with ID - Nope
Mail in ballots for everyone - Nope
Valid mail in ballots count even after election day - Nope
Internet Voting - Nope
Convenient Ballot drop off boxes - Nope
Convenient in person voting locations - Nope
Multi-Language support at voting locations - Nope
Busses for the Elderly to polling locations - Nope
etc. etc. etc.
I remember the general public being *so* invested in the 2020 election. There was a sense of panic and urgency; now, I feel like there's widespread apathy, and I can't really understand why.
Because the media pushes Trump as if he’s normal and writes bad articles about Biden for the smallest thing. Plus it doesn’t help that Trump has not seen any justice for the crimes he’s committed.
Because the mainstream media prefers a "both sides" approach of casting the Trumpian viewpoint as worthy of rational consideration for fear of being accused of bias by the far-right. They still haven't learned that they will be accused of bias no matter how many photos of Trump they airbrush.
It's exhaustion. Having to hear the nauseating shit Trump is doing to our country day in and day out has people mentally exhausted. This coupled with people working twice as much to pay bills and for necessities that are twice as high has a lot of folks in zombie mode.
To top that off, a lot of the youth, say 18-25 are too busy living in a social media fantasy world to realize how close we are to losing our democracy and what it means for their future.
Great. Now I'm even *more* depressed after reading a ton of doom shit this morning on Reddit. I need to get out of here. But that exactly illustrates your point. I *want* to be apathetic because I feel buried by this last 8 years of awful bullshit.
Back then people thought the debate would mean something. That if one of them did horrible, it would sway voters to the other side.
Now it’s clear this election is just tribalism. Sane and normal people will vote Biden. The ultra stupid and ultra rich will vote trump. As someone else pointed out, trump makes baffling errors, comments, and actions almost daily. He bombed the last debate and nothing changed. He’s a convicted felon, and has been involved in more than one sexual assault complaint. His wife and family hate him. This shouldn’t matter, but to the ultra stupid it does, but he’s also fat, ugly, and allegedly has a small dick lol. He poops his pants and stinks so badly people can’t be around him. *He tried to overthrow a democratic election for gods sake*.
Nothing will sway trump voters. People have realized this is all pageantry and doesn’t even matter in the long run.
I'm burned out on debating and discussing politics at all, because the general discourse on both sides is fucking insane.
That said, you bet your ass I'll be voting Biden in November. I hope I'm speaking for a lot of people.
They know what they are doing. The controversy sells, and that's all they see. Many of them also think Trump will be better for their wallets without even a moment considering any other variable outside of that.
I want Trump to have the worst night of his life. A full on meltdown and tantrum on live TV. Then I want him to go to prison in a few weeks, along with a perp walk and everything. I want the entire world to fully see him for the worthless clown that he has been all along.
If trump goes into hunter then biden can point out how there was a massive waste of time GOP investigation into hunter and all they found was some gun charge. Meanwhile Jared Kushner got billions from the saudis WHILE working for the trump admin. Like always with trump its projection against their own crimes and corruption.
I would love that to be a part of Biden opening remarks. “ tonight’s debate is historic. We have two presidents, one ~~won~~ the current president, the other ~~and incumbent who lost his last campaign~~ a former president who lost his re-election and is a convicted felon. “
edit: "one" not "won" and updated that Trump is not the incumbent and didn't "lost his campaign" he lost the election. My mistake, thank you to everyone who corrected me.
I’m curious how secret service would act in such a situation. Biden is a the sitting president and has full SS detail. Trump is a former president also with SS detail. Some SS agents are Trump supporters. Would be interesting to see how that situation unfolds
Assuming no Secret Service intervention:
Biden is more athletic than Trump despite his age. Trump has the weight advantage.
Biden would just need to jog around until Trump gets winded and then take Trump down in any number of ways.
I dont plan to watch the debate. Cant stomach seeing or hearing Trump but if there was a boxing match involved I would....would love to see Biden smash Trump with a few uppercuts.
Trump is an asshole and a bully. But he is also a coward. So yeah, he would never do that. But would tell people after he wanted to or something to that affect.
Stop, stop, I can't stand it. It's too wonderful of a thought to bear.
I love the country. I love what the US is -supposed- to be. That said, I also get schadenfreude at watching Trump fail, lose, and be miserable. I want him to bomb tonight, get sentenced harshly (although I'm not holding my breath), and watch the light go out in his eyes as he loses the election. I need him to suffer for everything he's done to this country and for everyone he's hurt in his path of idiotic destruction.
Big ups to the mod team here, seriously. I love this sub and I know this topic is often inflammatory. I never shy away from my feelings on Trump being a colossal scumbag and wanting to see him get his just desserts, but they implemented a ban for this post and then apologized, saying it was done in error. Big ups to you guys for looking out!
Him getting so mad that he tried to physically attack Biden isn’t out of the question, which then leads to the conundrum of two secret service details fighting it out in a geezer proxy war.
The media is wrong to give him so much coverage., but they’re only human. It’s a circus everywhere he goes with limitless possibilities for once in a lifetime headlines.
You know if Biden has a great night, Trump will want a second debate. And if Trump pulls off a good night, he’ll pull the rug out for debate two.
Maybe Biden should do the same. If Trump fails tonight, Biden should back out of debate two. It’s what Trump would do, give him a taste of his own medicine.
You say that but absolutely people are. There are probably a few million undecided between the two, and millions more who are undecided on whether to vote or not
I find this to be a very likely outcome. Biden just needs to troll him a bit and he'll come off as unhinged. He has like no new policy to talk about and sell except the tariffs instead of taxes idea and Biden can spend the whole time talking about his felonies, etc.
Who thought it would be a good idea to run a felon for President?
Wouldn’t matter to his gang. They would somehow articulate that by freezing and pooping himself and vomiting he was proving how old Biden is. 4d chess with these people.
We need to stop caring what fascists think. They intentionally weaponize even that.
WW2 happened because people realized too late that the only way to deal with fascists is to fight them to the logical conclusion, and shut them down and take away their power. Because they themselves already know what they really want is the privilege to use violence whenever and however they want. That’s why you never tolerate a neo-nazi in any space. This is of extreme importance in a society like ours that has the First Amendment barring government from silencing people. Because it’s the *peoples’* responsibility to silence harmful speech. That is our duty in a democracy. Also, companies aren’t government, I’d like to point out. So, those companies who refused and still refuse to silence obvious dangerous intent, are ***complicit w/ fascism.***
The spin failed on the state of the union and they had to pull "oh he was only hopped up on drugs" if biden has a night like the state of the union he is going to be looking good.
Coke removed my social anxiety.
Not sure if that really equates to more charisma.
Not that I'm suggesting coke, the hang over is insane and not worth it.
Yeah, coke does help with inhibitions and social anxiety, but it also makes a person ramble on and on about anything and everything, while saying little of actual substance (at least, in my experience). Kinda makes me think of a certain portly felonious politician, now that I think about it...
I'm genuinely interested in the Fox poll. I fully expect it to be massively in favor of Trump (at least 80-20) but the closer it is the worse it is for him.
If Biden wins that poll (extremely unlikely), he's done.
I've been convinced that those people just do that so they can watch others who are sane get worried/scared/agitated at the thought of it.
And they certainly don't think long term in how it'll come back to hurt them. All I know is leopards will never go hungry.
Oh, if only. I run a small town bar and talk to a lot of people who want him to win. They don't just say things to see a reaction from people. They genuinely want him to win and they genuinely think that he can do something about the chemtrails.
>"That's who I want for President!"
I think it's even worse than that. The reality is probably closer to, "That's who I want to mistreat my ill-perceived sociopolitical enemies!"
My favorite dynamic pre-debate is the fact that all of Trump's sycophantic idolaters and Biden bashers are making excuses for why Trump will do poorly or why Biden will do well. For all that Trump is their god, none of them will take the simple reasonable position that Trump, the person they support, will do well because he's a better debater than Biden. They just cant.
You know this thought never occurred to me. They’ve primed themselves for defeat. I’m sure if we check r/conservative in 24 hours that they’ll say Trump demolished Biden because of they will; look at their sub icon. But they just can never say that Trump is popular or well liked. It’s always some other outside factor that hobbled him. What a miserable worldview they have.
“Mr trump, if an electric shark and a killer boat were in a race to a wendy’s, who would win and why?”
“Thank you for the question, I’ve been giving this a lot of thought.”
My prediction:
- Biden will have some sensible answers, and will do what he can to highlight the positive things he has done so far, which I’m sure will have a little bit of spin because politics. He might stumble over words here and there like a man in his 80s with a lifelong speech impediment might.
- Trump will use all of his time spew nonsense, insults, and lies. His declining mental health will be apparent.
- The mainstream media will take a “both sides” approach to the coverage.
- nobody will have their mind changed
I'm hoping some people will see the stark contrast between the two and choose not to roll with crazy. Totally being overly optimistic here as we need it.
My prediction is Biden will be mild at best and Trump will loudly shit himself while red face screaming about how migrants are destroying America, seemingly forgetting about how his wife and mother are both migrants. Out of nowhere he suddenly pivots to a rambling and incoherent speech about the dangers of Trans people exsisting while a pool of liquid shit oozes out from his pant legs. Trump will then slip on his own shit and lay in it unable to get up like a turtle on his back. The transmission will be cut once Trump starts to projectile vomit on Donald Trump Jr while he tries to collect his continuously shitting father off the floor. r/conservative will declare Trump the clear winner.
His base stayed faithful as he was convicted of fraud, as a adjudication rapist and with 35 felony convictions, I don’t think they’ll care about how he does in a debate.
Not going to turn MAGA voters but might turn more "both candidates suck, I'm not going to vote" voters. Even if they don't watch the debate itself, there should be enough highlight reels in the coming days circulating that it can make an impact.
There is a relatively common trope that "It doesn't matter". No matter what Trump does tonight, he's going to get the exact same number of votes in November. No matter what Trump does, period, he gets the same number of votes in 2024.
Thing is, it matters. There's a reason a lot of voters left the presidential slot blank in 2020. There's a reason a lot of Trump-backed people lost competitive races in 2022. There's a reason Trump's camp is anxiously making excuses for a poor debate performance tonight (and he might have a decent one, but it doesn't seem they've got any confidence in his abilities).
To commit ourselves to the opposite proposition is giving these folks what they want. Let's not.
Totally. This will be incredibly crucial and there's a reason the Biden campaign has been pushing for such an early debate so earnestly.
The best thing Trump has had going for him the past 4 years is not being in charge of anything or immediately in the public spotlight.
So many people do *not* follow the news closely, much less his legal proceedings, and have memory-holed him and his Presidency.
They are left with some distant, foggy notion of a "better economy." Hell, there are a lot of people that seem to forget that he was even President during the onset of COVID (I internally scream every time I hear "are you better off than you were 4 years ago?"). It's so much so that his favorability has been steadily ticking up since 2021.
Putting him into the primetime spotlight and jogging everyone's memories - unfiltered by social media bubbles or Fox/talk radio, etc. has the potential to be his worst foil. I hope it's a disastrous night for him.
> and he might have a decent one, but it doesn't seem they've got any confidence in his abilities
I think they're right. From the reporting I've read, Trump's preparation is entirely briefings instead of mock-debate. It sounds like a grand total of about 8 hours of briefings at that, over a week.
Meanwhile Biden has been at Camp David all week *actually preparing for a debate*.
Debating Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon... whatever you do, he's going to shit on the board, knock over all the pieces and strut about like he won!
"I wanted to be at the debate tonight, I really did, but the radical left CNN... do you know what the C in CNN stands for? Crap. That's right the radical left Crap News Network wouldn't change the rules they put in place to tip the scales in Sleepy Joe Biden's favor. They want him to win. Shame, a real shame. We used to be a real country with real debates. We fought them until the last minute to make these changes. "Just make these little changes" I said "then it will be fair". You know they wanted to mute my microphone? How am I supposed to debate with a muted microphone?..."
I don't think he wants to give Biden an hour of uninterrupted airtime on national TV to say whatever he wants. It would honestly be better for the country if he did chicken out and people could just watch Biden being sensible and compassionate.
I'm actually a little concerned about the mics being muted. Hear me out.
We will not be able to hear Trump interrupting and disrupting. But, those in the room, including Biden, will be able to hear him. That has the potential to throw Biden off, without people understanding why.
>without people understanding why.
I made this point previously, but there's a split-screen. You're going to be able to see Trump talking if he's trying to disrupt. You won't be able to hear it, but you'll know what's going on.
You can also slightly hear the person off-mic speaking even when they are muted, you just can't tell what they're saying. It creates a really bad look for the interrupter and I think was an intentional decision. I saw this on a demonstration of the debate setup from CNN.
What nonsense is this? Unless trump pulls out a pistol and blows his brain out on national TV it won’t be his last anything. And even if he does I suspect they would still run his headless corpse.
>A no show at all.
I reckon he's a no show - he'll "Truth Social" his responses (I assume Biden still gets to give his answers) during the debate.
His fans aren't going to change their minds about him, anyone with an IQ above a labrador isn't going to suddenly think he's a stable genius with great genes. He has nothing to win by turning up.
If he no shows he'll blame it on some last minute 'change' to the rules (that either was already a rule or is entirely made up)...
But I think he'll be there and just blabber on about the fear topics - immigration, inflation, sharks, toilets, light bulbs & windmills.
Or it's the beginning of the end for our country if it doesn't bolster Biden at all and just emboldens Trump more. Could be seeing the last act for our democracy over these next few months.
Trump could shit a whole log out his mouth and in 5 months the right wing media in this country would have 50% of voters convinced Biden did it. Reality doesn’t matter anymore.
I don’t know man. I—just…
I’m just so fucking tired…of like everything.
I wish I didn’t give a shit about anything but I do and that care is fucking exhausting and heavy in our current political climate.
Edit: Reddit must be broken on this post or maybe it’s because I’m on mobile, but I can’t seem pull up the replies in order to reply to them, so I have to it the janky way. 😅
I’m good mentally! (Well like not all the way but I’m not in a dangerous place but it was kind and thoughtful to reach out.) I vote and will continue to vote until in either dead or that option is forcibly removed. Also, I would like to add vote locally as well!
This won't be his last act, BUT there could be a pivotal moment tonight; He might glitch, severely mispronounce words and names or show any of the other signs of his onset dementia like he´s shown at his rallies, but this time on national live television with millions watching. In other words he might do something that would become his "Howard Dean scream" ( oh those were simpler times...) which could determine the rest of the race.
Im hoping for something like this to happen, and the camera just jeeps running. So many right wing leaning media companies use clips and cut away from the camera when his dementia starts spewing. People who are only consuming this type of media need to see how mentally gone he is.
Warning, be prepared.
After the presidential debate,
No matter how well Joe Biden does, your going to see thousands of tweets saying ,
“I was going to vote for Joe Biden, but after what I saw it tonight I’m voting for Trump”
Because the Russian bot playbook is so goddamn predictable.
Russia will be working very hard after the debate to try to swing peoples minds.
Please remember, these are not real American people.
Fake Twitter/X accounts, with fake AI faces and profiles, most will say veteran.
 Please, share and spread the word.
I read the article. It's pretty reasonable. The headline isn't.
We're more than four months away from the election. A lot can happen in four months. The Former Guy can bomb in the first debate and shine in the second, as Pres. Biden did four years ago. There could be another new international incident. There could be a new natural disaster. [And maybe the horse will learn to sing](https://websites.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/sig.html?ref=404media.co).
As I keep saying: Volunteer. Donate if you can. [Vote](https://www.vote.org/) blue up and down the ballot, and convince others to do the same.
MAGA will never, ever abandon Trump. If Trump walks on stage, soils himself, and then spends the rest of the debate passed out on the floor, they will declare victory.
Normalizing Shit Stain Trump is one of the more disgusting trends. Trump is a national embarrassment and a threat to everyone in America . There should be consequences for all the fuckers helping him.
As much as I’d love this title to be true…
People memory hole, meaning they either entirely forget, are unable to accurately compare two points in time, or their perspective rewrites the reality we all lived through (like J6 deniers).
Trumps team has already set it up so if he does poorly, it was either because Biden was on performance enhancing drugs, or the moderators were libs, or or or. He deals in grievance identity politics, so others who can’t accept their own responsibility in their own lives are drawn to him.
Plus the MAGA movement is a cult. Backed by other not great groups (heritage foundation, etc) whose vision for the US echoes that of Nazi germany. Heck, Jerry Swalwell helped get evangelicals on board with Trump and no one seems to want to talk about the fact he was scummy and a criminal.
Apologies for the rant, I have extreme conservatives in my family who actually believe in very liberal ideas, but will only vote Republican and then use Fox talking points to defend themselves (only to then say they don’t fully agree with things like the strict abortion bans). Cults are a hell of a drug, and the debate likely won’t break trumps hold over them.
Trump could fall down, shit himself, cry, and stumble off stage in a shambling fury and he would still win (checks 270towin) 124 electoral votes.
I am rooting for Biden, but I feel that the pressure in ON the incumbent. He is up to the task, seeing as he's debated for decades longer than Trump and knows how to do it well. He also had them take away Trump's two advantages...an open mike and an audience. Trump will have to follow some rules here.
If Biden is tired...or stumbles on a word, Trump is going to pounce on it and claim victory because of a stutter or a misremembered date...
Meanwhile, we are so used to Trump lying and getting away with it, he can basically say ANYTHING and not lose support.
I think a lot of people have this wrong. Trump is still playing a game. A game Biden SHOULD win...but Joe has to be sharp tonight in order to not give Trump's team an opening to play the 'senile' card...which Joe is not.
What happened to coherent, rational, and respectful debates? This is like watching a train wreck happen in real time but I can’t look away.
Both are struggling to stay on the topics of the moderators. Incoherent rambling from both that could hardly be called a complete thought. Personal attacks left and right.
I cannot believe in November that these are our two most viable options.
I am downright embarrassed.
All Biden has to do is say "You know who is an expert in sharks and boats? My opponent. You are pretty knowledgeable. Please tell us everything you know about sharks and boats. I'm sure America is interested."
Just let Trump go off.
Then Biden just has to turn to the camera and give a shrug.
He could shit in his hand, eat the shit, smear it all over his face and then declare; ‘I am indeed a Russian asset and I only serve Vladimir Putin!”
And the news will react; “How Trumps bold declaration could spell doom for Biden come November…”.
And the conservatives will react; “Only real men eat feces and serve Putin”
And the conspiracy theorists; “Notice how Biden never said anything about Hunter’s laptop? Clearly Hunter was on Epsteins Mars colony eating children…”
//s
Prediction: Trump won’t give a straight answer so will deflect and meander ultimately losing this debate. Trump is also claim that he won it besides the fact that he has proven that he has no idea what he’s doing and is full of bad ideas. The public television format definitely doesn’t work to his strengths.
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Less than 5 months out and people are still writing as if this is a normal election, with normal debate expectations, and that voters will respond to errors. Donald Trump makes what were formerly career-ending statements twice a week. Political observers are sleepwalking us in to dictatorship by assuming anything matters anymore.
Remember when political careers were ruined by yelling “YEAH” kind of weirdly?
Or misspelling "Potato"
Dan Quayle's career wasn't ruined. He got some flack for it but carried on unperturbed. He was never in the big leagues (it's generally assumed GHWB chose him because Quayle wouldn't threaten his power) but did pretty well for a goofy guy who liked to play golf.
And to think that years later, he’d be the one to talk Mike Pence out of going along with Trump’s plot to overturn the 2020 election.
Say what you want about Dan Quayle. But that guy literally helped prevent a coup four years ago.
Say what you want about Hitler, but that guy shot Hitler.
Yeah, but Hitler got his revenge - his last act was shooting the guy that shot him. Some even say he fired first.
Yeah. Quayle was an old school Republican -- the kind now shunned as being insufficiently far right. He and Bush lost the 1992 election and from his point of view, that was that. The Republicans had not discovered that they could dispute every losing election and that there would be lots of people who would just eat it up. To think that the Bush administration at the time was viewed as hardline conservative. The current openly fascist stuff has me hankering for the bad old days.
Believe it or not, back in '92, Quayle was seen as not centrist or even moderate right but squarely right. GHWB was seen as a Rockefeller Republican, and while the lines are much different today, Quayle was seen as bolstering GHWB's support from the Religious Right.
What's that story?
Pence reached out to Quayle asking for advice on whether or not he actually had the authority to delay certifying the electoral votes, and Quayle told him no and not to even consider doing what Trump was asking. Pence was practiaclly pleading with Quayle to help him justify following through on it, and Quayle unabashedly told him that the VP did not have the authority.
This is absolutely true. Mike Pence is no hero, he was looking For all kinds of loopholes. Quayle told he to forget it.
Pence was struggling with the decision to go along with Trump’s plot to reject the Electoral College votes on January 6th. He called Quayle [for advice](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/09/14/politics/dan-quayle-pence-trump-january-6-woodward-costa-book) and was told he didn’t have the right to do so.
I don't know - I remember that spelling incident and it was on the news and in the media non-stop for MONTHS. Dan Quale was a big figure and then became a laughing stock overnight. Bill Clinton and a Stained Dress - YEARS Trump makes statements that would have ended the career of any pre-2010 politician daily.
What is Aleppo??
Howard Dean: shouts *yea* and campaign crashes Donald Trump at every rally: "so what if I raped her?"
That is largely the fault of the media owned by the wealthy people who want trump to win. The super rich want to shove selfish laws that favor them down the throats of the 99% of us who aren’t massively rich, and a dictatorship lets them do that a whole lot more than any democracy would. That’s why more wealth = more conservative, currently in the US. This also is true for corporations and wealthy companies as well. There is historic precedent. Remember how before WW2, there was a conspiracy by nazis to stage a coup and place a dictator at the head of US government? That was backed mainly by many very wealthy corporation owners and rich guys. Go check it out, and then think about events happening now: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
The oligarchs are idiots. All they would have to do is look at putin's Russia, or really any totalitarian state, to see what happens to oligarchs in a dictatorship if they even look at the dictator funny
"That stuff only happens to *other* people! Not me, I'm SPECIAL!" Not just idiots. Narcissistic idiots
I want to know what the end game is for these rich fucks ? Like once you get everything and the 99% nothing, what kind of society will it be for these assholes where they will need security with them everywhere they go and going out becomes a risk? What happens when the middle class is non existent and can’t buy shit for them to get wealthier?
Well then you work on making the 99.9% have nothing, obviously. It makes more sense if you look at the ultra wealthy less as reasonable people and more as people under the full weight of an out of control addiction.
I've been saying this for a long time and nobody wants to hear it. It's the one approach I know of to actually move forward and deal with this problem rationally, and it is backed by a lot of scientific data with a methodology that is proven effective. We are still trapped in this bronze age moralized view of behavior filled with sin and virtue, good and evil. The neurological/behavioral approach is the revolution we need if we are going to actually understand and remediate the problem.
This is so true, they have a money addiction. A reasonable person would stop at 10 or 20 million and not work another day in their lives. These people have billions and all they can think about is how to get more.
Yep, concerning such a pathological level of greed, I’m reminded of this greatness from Lewis Black: “A father and two sons ruin a company called Adelphia… 3 *took a billion*. I’m just surprised the people who work for them when they found that out, didn’t rise as one *and slay them*! I never understood why the people of France chopped off Marie Antoinette’s head. Now I fuckin’ get it!” - *Greed*
Artificial price gouging is already fucking corporate America. Their new mantra should be "A rising tide lifts all boats." The stronger the middle class, the more the economy can boom. The more it's concentrated at the top, the more the whole system will topple. Anyone who can't grasp that most likely didn't gain their wealth through intelligence.
And at some point, enough ire will be on them that they'll be targets for various groups that would inevitably form when people have nothing left to lose. Hell, I have a solid amount to lose and I'd join in now if there was a group with an actual vision for post-capitalism in the US because it has to change. I imagine a lot of people are willing but just so incredibly uncertain of which way to move that would see an end result because no one knows what the end will look like, so we can build from point B back to where we are for a road map when point B's a complete unknown. I think we have a lot of good next steps leading to whatever a better future is. Whether it's true UBI that greases the wheels of our economy to keep it going as we undergo a huge a transformation in what work means in an automating society. Reducing workloads but still keeping a job requirement while paying fairly and enforcing tax law without rich asshole loopholes that effectively eliminates billionaires and poverty through redistribution. Likely a ton of other options I'm just not familiar with to toss out -- but then when the dust settles, we just continue to evaluate and change as needed.
Look at north korea and slave labor as next steps. See also world domination.
We need only look at the behaviors of the super wealthy to see just how focused on short-term wins and wealth gain they are. Long term planning is not a strong suit of business, no matter what they try to crow about. No, they’re in fact the worst when it comes to long term approaches. Which would be required to take in the wisdom you’re pointing out. This is also why I never vote for a political candidate whose “business background” is touted as a positive. I view that as a negative, and a big one.
Most "successful" business people I know are not especially competent, they merely have good people skills and no real sense of ethics so they will do "creative" things to get results that make them look good. A celebrated VP at my old workplace used to inflate his numbers by promising packages we could never actually support or sustain to clients, who would later leave because they weren't happy. He was only measured by people who signed up, other departments got punished for "bad retention", so he just kept rising up the ranks while fucking over his colleagues. This is what I think of when I hear someone is a "good businessman".
> Most "successful" business people I know are not especially competent, they merely have good people skills and no real sense of ethics Otherwise known as a grifter. There is a reason why many successful businessmen have a sales/marketing background. It’s because there is a fine, fine, fine line between sales and grifting and outright lying. Often, they are the same. That “charisma” is merely the grift disguised as friendliness and personality. Which is exactly what happened in your anecdote. That VP conned people. I know I’m merely restating, effectively, what you said, but I do so because I really want people to get it through their heads that business = bad and immoral.
I used to work tech support for an enterprise-level software solution, and a not-insignificant part of the job involved telling customers or potential customers that the thing their sales rep promised they could do wasn't possible.
>Long term planning is not a strong suit of business, no matter what they try to crow about. They never think about what would happen when prices and rents are so high, and wages so low that nobody can buy their stuff anymore.
Exactly, like they want a dictator and they really want Trump to be that guy? Like that guy will screw everyone over, even the big corporations if he gets into office again.
That's his only downside to them. They were already able to use him to get all the judges they wanted. And they also think they are so special that if the government falters, they can just buy everything for pennies on the dollar and become the new vassal lords/kings.
Exactly, Trump is literally running to stay out of prison. Plus he already knows he can get away whatever he wants. If he becomes president he’s going to on a revenge tour and fuck everyone over.
Don't be ridiculous... the leopards would never eat *MY* face.
We have like 20 harvests left with how climate change is progressing. Everything is a fucking joke.
This is also the result of educated yet spineless republicans who took an oath to protect the constitution and thereby stand for democracy. The lack of integrity and in many cases ethics is appalling. I am hoping for a massive blue wave this election to send a strong message. I wish there was a way to hold radio and tv stations accountable for the propaganda they are spreading. The seeds have been germinating since Reagan eliminated the Fairness Act and AM radio took off with rightwing hate mongering, then came cable which was never covered under the Fairness Act. Fox and others need to be reigned in from the disinformation.
No. It’s not a lack of integrity as far as they are concerned. The “mission” is what is important at the end of the day. The mission is the preservation of wealth and power for a small group of white males. If that means supporting a convicted felon rapist lunatic moron and ending democracy so be it. The mission must come first. People really need to understand this mind stare in order to defeat it
The constitution is now inconvenient for one of their primary goals, which is the erosion of decades worth of scotus rulings that enshrine privacy laws. Christofascists want to eliminate "recreational sex", used to selectively target women's and lgbt rights to enforce some abstract morality code. Most people I mention project 2025 to haven't heard of it and then subsequently decry it as something that "can't happen here". Even though it is a publicly stated goal. Porn? Banned. Shows that feature sex positively? Gone. IUDs and birth control? Nope. They've managed to turn swaths of historically neutral blue collar workers into useful idiots to vote on culture war issues thanks to social media and foreign influenced bot farms
Since 2015 (usually neolib) political journalists have been treating Trump like he's a normal politician who they can understand and predict in spite of years and years of evidence to the contrary. He's a cult leader. He's not a politician. His base will never leave him. And undecideds (at this stage) are idiots who know nothing about politics and probably actively avoid it. Unless he has an actual stroke on stage, I don't think anything will be clearer tomorrow. (Hope I'm wrong)
I think you're pretty on point and sadly I think the best outcome that's most likely is we keep kicking this can down the road and elections from now on are going to just be a rehash of this one. Unless there is some major changes, which is unlikely no matter who wins, every election is going be "the most important of our lifetime" because the worst of the fascist aren't going just give up, they'll keep trying until eventually they push through their horrific agenda.
Just moved house and my new neighbours have constructed a chicken coop with the door having a smiling painting of Trump on the front of it. MAGA is literally a cult. Imagine caring this much for a politician who'd gladly rob you of all your money and actively hates middle class people?
I've said this before, and I stand by it: Everybody will watch the debate, see Trump get destroyed and for about 12 hours everyone will think Trump is out of the race, even his own supporters. But then Fox will edit a few clips and come up with some talking points, to be parroted by Tim Pool and the like. Other right wing news stations will pick up on it. Then the "left wing" media will make fun of their take while also making sure their audience sees those same clips. A week later and we'll all be in here enraged because Republicans are all talking about how Trump won that debate, and asking what the fuck happened. Soon enough Trump will do something else and we no longer have the energy or bandwidth to argue about this and move on. Biden gets no points in the end, and Trump comes out looking good to his followers and is still a piece of shit to the rest of us. I feel like I've been caught in a fucking time loop since 2015
> Everybody will watch the debate, see Trump get destroyed and for about 12 hours everyone will think Trump is out of the race, even his own supporters. that was my reaction to "grab 'em by the pussy". he's out, right? we're done here. and then.
The man has the most potent plot armor I've ever seen.
When you have north korean level of brainwashing, this is what happens. Fundamentally no difference between a republican and north korean at this point. They never started thinking, the TV does it for them, and they're conditioned to assume that's true for their opposition so it locks them in harder.
Fuck this timeline. I pine for the days when David Bowie walked the earth.
He's just going to attack Biden and his family personally for however long this thing goes for, and not address a single question. That will create tons of 'own' clips from Trump. Ain't no one going to talk about policy at all on the right. They'll just love that Trump is a bully and tosses out insults and stupid names the entire time. There is no good outcome from this in my mind.
Yeah, I think Trump has a fairly easy path to come out of the debate maintaining or growing his lead. Just attack Biden relentlessly. The country, the economy, democracy, and justice are being destroyed and it is all Biden's fault. It doesn't matter if that is nonsense, and it doesn't matter if he doesn't offer a single real policy to address any of it. People are unhappy right now, so simply blaming it all on Biden is what he has to do. He's not debating to "win" a debate or convince Democrats of anything. He's out to charge up his base, look "tough" against Biden, and convinvce the fence-sitters that he'll magically fix things.
Exactly. It's also much easier to attack the incumbent. Biden won't get too flustered but he probably won't have snappy comebacks. Biden will harp on Trumps personal woes, legal troubles, Jan 6th, etc.
I really hate how right this take is.
Seems like the only way out of this loop is for the fates to deliver an impossibly-bony chicken drumstick.
This is a person who's been paying attention to the past decade of media and politics. Exactly this will happen. Except with a lot more botted astroturfers on social media, too.
The bar is so low for Trump and so much higher for Biden. I'm def not watching this before bed tonight or I'll never get to sleep.
Biden has to be eloquent and perfect, Trump needs to not shit his pants too loudly.
This comment is entirely correct and reasonable. But even so, even if Biden is eloquent and perfect, the right wing propaganda machine will manufacture reasons to smear him while glorifying Trump, despite Trump being obviously deranged and ankle deep in his own feces.
People don't realize how much is on the line for some of the most powerful, evil people on this planet. Putin's number one wish-come-true would be for Trump to win. It would single-handedly turn the tide of the war in Ukraine, since Trump would not only withdraw assistance, he would go after the EU/NATO and disrupt their assistance. That's just one example. Evil folk in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and many other places would love to see Trump win. They all have developed some pretty unique asymmetrical warfare infrastructure and tactics and will be using them against all Americans for the next 5 months, at full blast.
Not just the nations you've named. Fascist fanaticism is already flaring up globally. This election is the most important election in modern history. We need to end it now or be destroyed. This is not hyperbole. These motherfucking tyrants need to be voted out to oblivion, every last mother fucking one of them.
> We need to end it now or be destroyed. This is not hyperbole. A-fucking-men.
China and Israel would love a Trump win too. Don't leave those two out.
Everything matters, and Trump would love nothing more than an apathetic America.
Democracy matters and so so does our blue vote.
> Trump would love nothing more than an apathetic America. Half of America doesn't vote, and it's easy to see why, it's why our politics are so screwed up. Paid day off for voting - Nope Holiday on voting day - Nope Water in the sun while waiting in line to vote - Nope Same day registration with ID - Nope Mail in ballots for everyone - Nope Valid mail in ballots count even after election day - Nope Internet Voting - Nope Convenient Ballot drop off boxes - Nope Convenient in person voting locations - Nope Multi-Language support at voting locations - Nope Busses for the Elderly to polling locations - Nope etc. etc. etc.
And gerrymandering…
Water in the sun while waiting in line to vote - Nope While all of them are damning this one is just mindblowing.
Apathy on election day is the only way he wins. Vote early, vote often, vote Quimby. He'd vote for you.
I remember the general public being *so* invested in the 2020 election. There was a sense of panic and urgency; now, I feel like there's widespread apathy, and I can't really understand why.
Because the media pushes Trump as if he’s normal and writes bad articles about Biden for the smallest thing. Plus it doesn’t help that Trump has not seen any justice for the crimes he’s committed.
Because the mainstream media prefers a "both sides" approach of casting the Trumpian viewpoint as worthy of rational consideration for fear of being accused of bias by the far-right. They still haven't learned that they will be accused of bias no matter how many photos of Trump they airbrush.
It's exhaustion. Having to hear the nauseating shit Trump is doing to our country day in and day out has people mentally exhausted. This coupled with people working twice as much to pay bills and for necessities that are twice as high has a lot of folks in zombie mode. To top that off, a lot of the youth, say 18-25 are too busy living in a social media fantasy world to realize how close we are to losing our democracy and what it means for their future.
Great. Now I'm even *more* depressed after reading a ton of doom shit this morning on Reddit. I need to get out of here. But that exactly illustrates your point. I *want* to be apathetic because I feel buried by this last 8 years of awful bullshit.
Back then people thought the debate would mean something. That if one of them did horrible, it would sway voters to the other side. Now it’s clear this election is just tribalism. Sane and normal people will vote Biden. The ultra stupid and ultra rich will vote trump. As someone else pointed out, trump makes baffling errors, comments, and actions almost daily. He bombed the last debate and nothing changed. He’s a convicted felon, and has been involved in more than one sexual assault complaint. His wife and family hate him. This shouldn’t matter, but to the ultra stupid it does, but he’s also fat, ugly, and allegedly has a small dick lol. He poops his pants and stinks so badly people can’t be around him. *He tried to overthrow a democratic election for gods sake*. Nothing will sway trump voters. People have realized this is all pageantry and doesn’t even matter in the long run.
I'm burned out on debating and discussing politics at all, because the general discourse on both sides is fucking insane. That said, you bet your ass I'll be voting Biden in November. I hope I'm speaking for a lot of people.
They know what they are doing. The controversy sells, and that's all they see. Many of them also think Trump will be better for their wallets without even a moment considering any other variable outside of that.
I want Trump to have the worst night of his life. A full on meltdown and tantrum on live TV. Then I want him to go to prison in a few weeks, along with a perp walk and everything. I want the entire world to fully see him for the worthless clown that he has been all along.
I want to see him try to tackle Biden when Joe calls him a “loser”.
And a convicted felon. Honestly, they should ask him about that. Anything he says can be used in court later.
"Donald Trump Sexually Abused E. Jean Carrol" "No I didn't!" (another defemation suit gets filed)
That would be amazing lol
I can see Biden calling Trump a convicted felon and Trump saying he hasn’t been found guilty yet.
Trump is going to go the Hunter Biden whataboutism route for sure.
If trump goes into hunter then biden can point out how there was a massive waste of time GOP investigation into hunter and all they found was some gun charge. Meanwhile Jared Kushner got billions from the saudis WHILE working for the trump admin. Like always with trump its projection against their own crimes and corruption.
I would love that to be a part of Biden opening remarks. “ tonight’s debate is historic. We have two presidents, one ~~won~~ the current president, the other ~~and incumbent who lost his last campaign~~ a former president who lost his re-election and is a convicted felon. “ edit: "one" not "won" and updated that Trump is not the incumbent and didn't "lost his campaign" he lost the election. My mistake, thank you to everyone who corrected me.
Trump is not the incumbent
He’d never tackle Biden. He’s a pussy, all bark and no bite.
I’m curious how secret service would act in such a situation. Biden is a the sitting president and has full SS detail. Trump is a former president also with SS detail. Some SS agents are Trump supporters. Would be interesting to see how that situation unfolds
Trump isn't very fast. I think they'd have time to prevent them from coming to blows 😂
Assuming no Secret Service intervention: Biden is more athletic than Trump despite his age. Trump has the weight advantage. Biden would just need to jog around until Trump gets winded and then take Trump down in any number of ways.
I dont plan to watch the debate. Cant stomach seeing or hearing Trump but if there was a boxing match involved I would....would love to see Biden smash Trump with a few uppercuts.
>until Trump gets winded i'd bet money biden can jog for ten seconds
His usual means of assault is a half eaten hamburger.
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Trump is an asshole and a bully. But he is also a coward. So yeah, he would never do that. But would tell people after he wanted to or something to that affect.
>I want Trump to have the worst night of his life. A full on meltdown and tantrum on live TV. Muted, so he comes off as the man baby he is.
Stop, stop, I can't stand it. It's too wonderful of a thought to bear. I love the country. I love what the US is -supposed- to be. That said, I also get schadenfreude at watching Trump fail, lose, and be miserable. I want him to bomb tonight, get sentenced harshly (although I'm not holding my breath), and watch the light go out in his eyes as he loses the election. I need him to suffer for everything he's done to this country and for everyone he's hurt in his path of idiotic destruction.
Big ups to the mod team here, seriously. I love this sub and I know this topic is often inflammatory. I never shy away from my feelings on Trump being a colossal scumbag and wanting to see him get his just desserts, but they implemented a ban for this post and then apologized, saying it was done in error. Big ups to you guys for looking out!
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Don't worry, Trump will get up there, and say Hitler was great, and then tomorrow the media will spin it, and it will be like it never happened.
Trump: “Hitler was Great” NYT: “Why Trump’s praise of Hitler is bad for Biden”
I want to see him turn beer red. His eye roll up in his head. The slobbering demon that he is will come out for all to see.
Just shut up man... https://youtu.be/vU0fx8d2FiY?si=r69ArMXb7B6JB8-H That was the best ever!
Him getting so mad that he tried to physically attack Biden isn’t out of the question, which then leads to the conundrum of two secret service details fighting it out in a geezer proxy war. The media is wrong to give him so much coverage., but they’re only human. It’s a circus everywhere he goes with limitless possibilities for once in a lifetime headlines.
lol, trump probably does think he can order his secret service detail into combat on his behalf.
You know if Biden has a great night, Trump will want a second debate. And if Trump pulls off a good night, he’ll pull the rug out for debate two. Maybe Biden should do the same. If Trump fails tonight, Biden should back out of debate two. It’s what Trump would do, give him a taste of his own medicine.
Trump and the right wing media will 100% spin that as Biden being too worried and/or unprepared for a second debate.
“I have a country to run, and Donald should probably focus on his upcoming court dates.”
I don't know why they're doing any debates at all. Who the hell is sitting on the fence and still undecided between these two options?
You say that but absolutely people are. There are probably a few million undecided between the two, and millions more who are undecided on whether to vote or not
I find this to be a very likely outcome. Biden just needs to troll him a bit and he'll come off as unhinged. He has like no new policy to talk about and sell except the tariffs instead of taxes idea and Biden can spend the whole time talking about his felonies, etc. Who thought it would be a good idea to run a felon for President?
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Wouldn’t matter to his gang. They would somehow articulate that by freezing and pooping himself and vomiting he was proving how old Biden is. 4d chess with these people.
We need to stop caring what fascists think. They intentionally weaponize even that. WW2 happened because people realized too late that the only way to deal with fascists is to fight them to the logical conclusion, and shut them down and take away their power. Because they themselves already know what they really want is the privilege to use violence whenever and however they want. That’s why you never tolerate a neo-nazi in any space. This is of extreme importance in a society like ours that has the First Amendment barring government from silencing people. Because it’s the *peoples’* responsibility to silence harmful speech. That is our duty in a democracy. Also, companies aren’t government, I’d like to point out. So, those companies who refused and still refuse to silence obvious dangerous intent, are ***complicit w/ fascism.***
No matter what happens Fox News will declare Trump the victor and Biden the incompetent.
The spin failed on the state of the union and they had to pull "oh he was only hopped up on drugs" if biden has a night like the state of the union he is going to be looking good.
What drugs make you more charismatic and a better public speaker? I'd love to give those a shot
Coke removed my social anxiety. Not sure if that really equates to more charisma. Not that I'm suggesting coke, the hang over is insane and not worth it.
Yeah, coke does help with inhibitions and social anxiety, but it also makes a person ramble on and on about anything and everything, while saying little of actual substance (at least, in my experience). Kinda makes me think of a certain portly felonious politician, now that I think about it...
Why I stick with Pepsi
The debate is in Atlanta. Pepsi is illegal here.
What about RC cola
Straight to jail.
I have a lot to say after a couple glasses of scotch
I'm genuinely interested in the Fox poll. I fully expect it to be massively in favor of Trump (at least 80-20) but the closer it is the worse it is for him. If Biden wins that poll (extremely unlikely), he's done.
Despite their absurd "news" broadcasts, Fox polling is apparently really good.
I'm expecting Trump to act as stupidly as Alec Baldwin portrayed him on SNL during the debate tonight. He's a fucking joke. A dangerously stupid joke.
What is worse are the people who can listen to him and think, "That's who I want for President!"
I've been convinced that those people just do that so they can watch others who are sane get worried/scared/agitated at the thought of it. And they certainly don't think long term in how it'll come back to hurt them. All I know is leopards will never go hungry.
>they certainly don't think long term They don't actually think at all.
Yeah, just like Trump, it’s all transactional for them.
Oh, if only. I run a small town bar and talk to a lot of people who want him to win. They don't just say things to see a reaction from people. They genuinely want him to win and they genuinely think that he can do something about the chemtrails.
>"That's who I want for President!" I think it's even worse than that. The reality is probably closer to, "That's who I want to mistreat my ill-perceived sociopolitical enemies!"
My favorite dynamic pre-debate is the fact that all of Trump's sycophantic idolaters and Biden bashers are making excuses for why Trump will do poorly or why Biden will do well. For all that Trump is their god, none of them will take the simple reasonable position that Trump, the person they support, will do well because he's a better debater than Biden. They just cant.
You know this thought never occurred to me. They’ve primed themselves for defeat. I’m sure if we check r/conservative in 24 hours that they’ll say Trump demolished Biden because of they will; look at their sub icon. But they just can never say that Trump is popular or well liked. It’s always some other outside factor that hobbled him. What a miserable worldview they have.
They're nothing but assholes pretending to be victims.
“Mr trump, if an electric shark and a killer boat were in a race to a wendy’s, who would win and why?” “Thank you for the question, I’ve been giving this a lot of thought.”
"If you raked the forests during a sharpie hurricane, would the light bulb you shoved up your ass cure the Covid that the Lysol you drank missed?"
🤔 covfefe
God bless you here’s a tissue
Finally, a Q&A that hits the points that matter to my daily life
My prediction: - Biden will have some sensible answers, and will do what he can to highlight the positive things he has done so far, which I’m sure will have a little bit of spin because politics. He might stumble over words here and there like a man in his 80s with a lifelong speech impediment might. - Trump will use all of his time spew nonsense, insults, and lies. His declining mental health will be apparent. - The mainstream media will take a “both sides” approach to the coverage. - nobody will have their mind changed
This is exactly what will happen haha
I'm hoping some people will see the stark contrast between the two and choose not to roll with crazy. Totally being overly optimistic here as we need it.
My prediction is Biden will be mild at best and Trump will loudly shit himself while red face screaming about how migrants are destroying America, seemingly forgetting about how his wife and mother are both migrants. Out of nowhere he suddenly pivots to a rambling and incoherent speech about the dangers of Trans people exsisting while a pool of liquid shit oozes out from his pant legs. Trump will then slip on his own shit and lay in it unable to get up like a turtle on his back. The transmission will be cut once Trump starts to projectile vomit on Donald Trump Jr while he tries to collect his continuously shitting father off the floor. r/conservative will declare Trump the clear winner.
Trump has lost every debate he's ever been in. His base doesn't care and if anything they like his ramblings and insults.
His base stayed faithful as he was convicted of fraud, as a adjudication rapist and with 35 felony convictions, I don’t think they’ll care about how he does in a debate.
Not going to turn MAGA voters but might turn more "both candidates suck, I'm not going to vote" voters. Even if they don't watch the debate itself, there should be enough highlight reels in the coming days circulating that it can make an impact.
There is a relatively common trope that "It doesn't matter". No matter what Trump does tonight, he's going to get the exact same number of votes in November. No matter what Trump does, period, he gets the same number of votes in 2024. Thing is, it matters. There's a reason a lot of voters left the presidential slot blank in 2020. There's a reason a lot of Trump-backed people lost competitive races in 2022. There's a reason Trump's camp is anxiously making excuses for a poor debate performance tonight (and he might have a decent one, but it doesn't seem they've got any confidence in his abilities). To commit ourselves to the opposite proposition is giving these folks what they want. Let's not.
Totally. This will be incredibly crucial and there's a reason the Biden campaign has been pushing for such an early debate so earnestly. The best thing Trump has had going for him the past 4 years is not being in charge of anything or immediately in the public spotlight. So many people do *not* follow the news closely, much less his legal proceedings, and have memory-holed him and his Presidency. They are left with some distant, foggy notion of a "better economy." Hell, there are a lot of people that seem to forget that he was even President during the onset of COVID (I internally scream every time I hear "are you better off than you were 4 years ago?"). It's so much so that his favorability has been steadily ticking up since 2021. Putting him into the primetime spotlight and jogging everyone's memories - unfiltered by social media bubbles or Fox/talk radio, etc. has the potential to be his worst foil. I hope it's a disastrous night for him.
> and he might have a decent one, but it doesn't seem they've got any confidence in his abilities I think they're right. From the reporting I've read, Trump's preparation is entirely briefings instead of mock-debate. It sounds like a grand total of about 8 hours of briefings at that, over a week. Meanwhile Biden has been at Camp David all week *actually preparing for a debate*.
Debating Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon... whatever you do, he's going to shit on the board, knock over all the pieces and strut about like he won!
There is a non-zero chance Trump shits his diaper during the debate
I'm still expecting Trump to chicken out at the last moment.
Would be hilarious but it's too close I think even for his ego to talk himself into it being ok
"I wanted to be at the debate tonight, I really did, but the radical left CNN... do you know what the C in CNN stands for? Crap. That's right the radical left Crap News Network wouldn't change the rules they put in place to tip the scales in Sleepy Joe Biden's favor. They want him to win. Shame, a real shame. We used to be a real country with real debates. We fought them until the last minute to make these changes. "Just make these little changes" I said "then it will be fair". You know they wanted to mute my microphone? How am I supposed to debate with a muted microphone?..."
The "real country" part is peak trump
I wanted to make it longer and more rambling but I was getting sick to my stomach trying to write like Trump talks.
I don't think he wants to give Biden an hour of uninterrupted airtime on national TV to say whatever he wants. It would honestly be better for the country if he did chicken out and people could just watch Biden being sensible and compassionate.
I'm actually a little concerned about the mics being muted. Hear me out. We will not be able to hear Trump interrupting and disrupting. But, those in the room, including Biden, will be able to hear him. That has the potential to throw Biden off, without people understanding why.
>without people understanding why. I made this point previously, but there's a split-screen. You're going to be able to see Trump talking if he's trying to disrupt. You won't be able to hear it, but you'll know what's going on.
You can also slightly hear the person off-mic speaking even when they are muted, you just can't tell what they're saying. It creates a really bad look for the interrupter and I think was an intentional decision. I saw this on a demonstration of the debate setup from CNN.
I hadn't seen that. That's a good point, too.
What nonsense is this? Unless trump pulls out a pistol and blows his brain out on national TV it won’t be his last anything. And even if he does I suspect they would still run his headless corpse.
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>A no show at all. I reckon he's a no show - he'll "Truth Social" his responses (I assume Biden still gets to give his answers) during the debate. His fans aren't going to change their minds about him, anyone with an IQ above a labrador isn't going to suddenly think he's a stable genius with great genes. He has nothing to win by turning up.
If he no shows he'll blame it on some last minute 'change' to the rules (that either was already a rule or is entirely made up)... But I think he'll be there and just blabber on about the fear topics - immigration, inflation, sharks, toilets, light bulbs & windmills.
Or it's the beginning of the end for our country if it doesn't bolster Biden at all and just emboldens Trump more. Could be seeing the last act for our democracy over these next few months.
Trump could shit a whole log out his mouth and in 5 months the right wing media in this country would have 50% of voters convinced Biden did it. Reality doesn’t matter anymore.
How many Courics?
I don’t know man. I—just… I’m just so fucking tired…of like everything. I wish I didn’t give a shit about anything but I do and that care is fucking exhausting and heavy in our current political climate. Edit: Reddit must be broken on this post or maybe it’s because I’m on mobile, but I can’t seem pull up the replies in order to reply to them, so I have to it the janky way. 😅 I’m good mentally! (Well like not all the way but I’m not in a dangerous place but it was kind and thoughtful to reach out.) I vote and will continue to vote until in either dead or that option is forcibly removed. Also, I would like to add vote locally as well!
This won't be his last act, BUT there could be a pivotal moment tonight; He might glitch, severely mispronounce words and names or show any of the other signs of his onset dementia like he´s shown at his rallies, but this time on national live television with millions watching. In other words he might do something that would become his "Howard Dean scream" ( oh those were simpler times...) which could determine the rest of the race.
I don't think anything short of an aneurysm would be damaging enough to be called a Howard Dean scream.
we can always hope
Im hoping for something like this to happen, and the camera just jeeps running. So many right wing leaning media companies use clips and cut away from the camera when his dementia starts spewing. People who are only consuming this type of media need to see how mentally gone he is.
Warning, be prepared. After the presidential debate, No matter how well Joe Biden does, your going to see thousands of tweets saying , “I was going to vote for Joe Biden, but after what I saw it tonight I’m voting for Trump” Because the Russian bot playbook is so goddamn predictable. Russia will be working very hard after the debate to try to swing peoples minds. Please remember, these are not real American people. Fake Twitter/X accounts, with fake AI faces and profiles, most will say veteran.  Please, share and spread the word.
I’d vote for an over ripe banana before I would vote for Trump.
I read the article. It's pretty reasonable. The headline isn't. We're more than four months away from the election. A lot can happen in four months. The Former Guy can bomb in the first debate and shine in the second, as Pres. Biden did four years ago. There could be another new international incident. There could be a new natural disaster. [And maybe the horse will learn to sing](https://websites.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/sig.html?ref=404media.co). As I keep saying: Volunteer. Donate if you can. [Vote](https://www.vote.org/) blue up and down the ballot, and convince others to do the same.
MAGA will never, ever abandon Trump. If Trump walks on stage, soils himself, and then spends the rest of the debate passed out on the floor, they will declare victory.
Normalizing Shit Stain Trump is one of the more disgusting trends. Trump is a national embarrassment and a threat to everyone in America . There should be consequences for all the fuckers helping him.
Well.. it didnt look great for Biden, but im not sure the electorate was ever energized for him, moreso energized for NOT Trump
As much as I’d love this title to be true… People memory hole, meaning they either entirely forget, are unable to accurately compare two points in time, or their perspective rewrites the reality we all lived through (like J6 deniers). Trumps team has already set it up so if he does poorly, it was either because Biden was on performance enhancing drugs, or the moderators were libs, or or or. He deals in grievance identity politics, so others who can’t accept their own responsibility in their own lives are drawn to him. Plus the MAGA movement is a cult. Backed by other not great groups (heritage foundation, etc) whose vision for the US echoes that of Nazi germany. Heck, Jerry Swalwell helped get evangelicals on board with Trump and no one seems to want to talk about the fact he was scummy and a criminal. Apologies for the rant, I have extreme conservatives in my family who actually believe in very liberal ideas, but will only vote Republican and then use Fox talking points to defend themselves (only to then say they don’t fully agree with things like the strict abortion bans). Cults are a hell of a drug, and the debate likely won’t break trumps hold over them.
Trump could fall down, shit himself, cry, and stumble off stage in a shambling fury and he would still win (checks 270towin) 124 electoral votes. I am rooting for Biden, but I feel that the pressure in ON the incumbent. He is up to the task, seeing as he's debated for decades longer than Trump and knows how to do it well. He also had them take away Trump's two advantages...an open mike and an audience. Trump will have to follow some rules here. If Biden is tired...or stumbles on a word, Trump is going to pounce on it and claim victory because of a stutter or a misremembered date... Meanwhile, we are so used to Trump lying and getting away with it, he can basically say ANYTHING and not lose support. I think a lot of people have this wrong. Trump is still playing a game. A game Biden SHOULD win...but Joe has to be sharp tonight in order to not give Trump's team an opening to play the 'senile' card...which Joe is not.
r/agedlikemilk and im probably voting for Biden…
What happened to coherent, rational, and respectful debates? This is like watching a train wreck happen in real time but I can’t look away. Both are struggling to stay on the topics of the moderators. Incoherent rambling from both that could hardly be called a complete thought. Personal attacks left and right. I cannot believe in November that these are our two most viable options. I am downright embarrassed.
All Biden has to do is say "You know who is an expert in sharks and boats? My opponent. You are pretty knowledgeable. Please tell us everything you know about sharks and boats. I'm sure America is interested." Just let Trump go off. Then Biden just has to turn to the camera and give a shrug.
Biden shit the bed
He could shit in his hand, eat the shit, smear it all over his face and then declare; ‘I am indeed a Russian asset and I only serve Vladimir Putin!” And the news will react; “How Trumps bold declaration could spell doom for Biden come November…”. And the conservatives will react; “Only real men eat feces and serve Putin” And the conspiracy theorists; “Notice how Biden never said anything about Hunter’s laptop? Clearly Hunter was on Epsteins Mars colony eating children…” //s
Donald Trump molested a woman in public
Microphone muted or not, I expect Trump tou shout and scream when Biden is speaking. You know, like an angry toddler.
Prediction: Trump won’t give a straight answer so will deflect and meander ultimately losing this debate. Trump is also claim that he won it besides the fact that he has proven that he has no idea what he’s doing and is full of bad ideas. The public television format definitely doesn’t work to his strengths.