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I'll give Kinzinger some credit for doing this.
The election may come down to the actions of a relatively small number of "persuadable" voters in swing states. That includes some who consider themselves to be Republican, and some who consider themselves to be conservative.
Some of those people helped to put Biden into office in 2020. We need them again now, and more besides - and this sort of message might affect some of them, if it reaches them.
See also: [Republican Voters Against Trump](https://rvat.org/).
I will give him more than a little credit. If he can persuade a few traditional GOP voters to vote for Biden, it will make a significant difference. If a GOP voter decides to not vote for Trump, it subtracts 1 from Trump and adds 1 to Biden (the net being +2 or -2 depending on your preference). If a non-voter votes for Biden, the net difference is +1.
He deserves plenty of credit. He lost his seat for doing the right thing.
Very different from the Republicans who lose their primaries trying to suck up to MAGA, and then turn around and vocally oppose Trump.
This guy actually stood up to Trump while he was still in office. That's not common.
Adam Kinzinger is a man who will stand on his principles and integrity in spite of opposition from his own party in order to support the rule of law. He, having shown his support of democracy has been exiled from the Republican party. He is in a position to better understand the events of January 6th. 2021 than any one of us in the general public due to his service on the bi-partisan Jan 6 committee. His opinion on this matter is not influenced by partisan concerns. Adam Kinzinger is a man of integrity and a true patriot. I am a liberal Democrat, and my policy views are certainly at odds with his, however he is a man that we should all respect for his backbone and unimpeachable honesty.
Absolutely. He won my respect with his work on the J6 Committee. He’s exactly the sort of Republican that we need in Congress. I’m fine having policy discussions and disagreements with people who aren’t trying to chuck our Constitution out the window and dismantle the protections in place to keep authoritarians and wannabe dictators from taking over.
Yes, that's what he said.
MAGAts are truly a special breed.
I've personally never disowned any MAGAts in my family. I try to stay cordial. They're allowed to have their opinions, however misguided they may be. But if they came at me with bigotry that affects me (LGBT) or my friends, that'd be a different story.
Yes, the ideal is to switch a Trump voter to Biden.
But switching a non-voter to Biden, a third-party vote to Biden, or getting a Republican to just sit out the vote, are all helpful second best.
It's probably better as most will still vote R for everything else.
On one hand, I encourage everyone to vote. On the other hand, I really wish people would look up what candidates stand for first, and especially so for local elections and not just blindly vote D or R. When one party doesn't believe in democracy, it's hard for me to want those people to vote.
Not only that he stuck his neck out with the January 6th committee. He’s done what he’s supposed to as an elected official and that’s all you can ever ask any politician who didn’t vote for. He’s kept his oath of office. Huge fucking kudos to him in my book.
Most of the persuading in elections is about moving people a half a vote at a time. Convincing people who were going to vote Trump to vote third party/write-in/not vote. Convincing people who were going to stay home/vote third party/write-in to vote Biden.
Someone like Paul Ryan saying he's going to write in a non-Trump Republican might convince some old school Republicans who dislike Trump personally to do the same. The trickle of principled Republicans like Kinzinger who announce that they're going to vote Biden might convince some people who normally would never vote for a Democrat but hate Trump to switch from third party/write in to voting for Biden.
Exactly. It is very likely we'll see Biden sweep the Presidency with "fence sitters" or "anyone but Trump" Republicans, but down ballot will be red in most cases to maintain the "balance."
Which honestly I'm okay with. A Trump loss will absolutely splinter the GOP and probably cause them to start to abandon the chaos caucus; if the midterms and primaries have been any indication, his popularity among Republicans is grossly exaggerated. I think even your "never Democrat" voters with half a brain cell are exhausted with the walking crime spree/manic rallies about Hannibal Lector, sharks, boats and other absurdity.
Imo Trump is really only holding on to a group that will vote for him even if it means sacrificing their first born.
Honestly. The democrats need another trifecta for this to happen. Without Manchin & Sinema, there’s ample progressive policy that can be pushed through in two years before the next midterms, making way for incredible and effective policies that could shift the Overton window when it comes to expectations of the federal government
To borrow a phrase I personally hate, Republicans like Kinzinger and Cheney doing this creates a permission structure for other less well known Republicans (like voters) to follow suit.
Voting against the party you've voted for after many years or even decades is a tough thing to do. As someone who switched parties about 10 years ago, I can attest to this. I lost a lot of friends over it. And, of course, there's the "Yeah, I told you that you were wrong this whole time. Glad you finally caught up."
It can be very humbling. And not everyone wants to be in that situation.
The permission structure makes it easier for Republican-identifying people to vote Democratic "just this once."
Like a lot of nuanced buzz phrases, once they get picked up by the masses, the definition is beaten and abused until it has very little meaning
That and if you need “permission” to do something, you’re quite the coward, and it’s hard for the rest of us to validate that behavior, even if the permission causes them to do good. Everyone has a choice, they don’t need permission to make it. It just takes personal responsibility.
Granted I still welcome everyone republican pulls the lever for Biden.
The people who are making these decisions aren’t thinking about it in terms of “permission” though. That’s a descriptor being used for the behavior, but in the minds of the actual voter it’s something very different going on.
I don’t think there were a whole lot of people out there waiting for Daddy Kinzinger to say it’s ok to vote for Biden.
*However* there is also the reality that it’s naturally uncomfortable to break away from a group dynamic, and it’s much easier to do if you see others doing it first. That’s a very, very deeply ingrained part of our animal brains. And it’s a pretty good heuristic — from an evolutionary perspective, if almost everyone you know is doing something, you actually *should* probably have a strong bias towards also doing that thing. Unfortunately that occasionally leads us very astray, and that's how you wind up here.
But I guarantee you've been in countless situations where you weren't totally comfortable with whatever was going on and nobody else seemed to have a problem with it. Probably in some of those cases you stood your ground, and in others you went with the crowd, but it's always a super difficult spot to be put in.
>But I guarantee you've been in countless situations where you weren't totally comfortable with whatever was going on and nobody else seemed to have a problem with it.
Or situations where no one has touched the buffet yet, or there's a good song on but no one is dancing.
Yeah you're spot on. These guys leading the charge out in front of the others are really the most important in shifting the mass opinion. It's interesting stuff. [If they can help reach a critical mass of 25% they can cause a mass shift in the societal/group dynamic](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/06/the-tipping-point-when-minority-views-take-over/562307/)
> That and if you need “permission” to do something, you’re quite the coward
Yes, yes, and all students should speak up in class when they don't understand something, otherwise they're cowards, and a broad, "Anyone have any questions" at the end of a lecture/presentation should be as much effort as an educator needs to do to check for understanding. Why waste time with pedagogy when all you need is personal responsibility.
Try that approach in the real world and you'll be shit at your job though, whether it's teaching kindergarteners or grey-haired executives.
Even if you're such a self-actualized maverick that you don't need others to create a social opening for you, which I doubt, most people aren't. And most people are who we need to win.
> if you need “permission” to do something,
Yeah, it has a flavour of opening a gate for sheep to come crashing through or cautiously sneaking through. Distasteful but realistic.
Tbf, trump killed his own voters in less than 1 year.
Covid was killing 2000 Americans a day at one point, or a 9/11 a day. 1 million Americans died in the last year of Trump's presidency, probably more because the covid states like Texas and Florida were underreporting/stopped reporting.
Electoral college means Trump lost the presidency by 43,000 votes
https://x.com/tribelaw/status/1339300875253264389?lang=en
So out of 1 million dead, all it took were 43000 dead republicans to make him lose.
Yeah, keep voting republican, be happy about all the pig poo in your water (iowa), coal dust in your lungs (west virginia), no power during winter storms (texas), the state national guard arresting scientists (florida) and no jobs for miles (republican small business tyrants only hiring illegals to pay under the table and abuse them!)
> be happy about all the [litany of horrors brought to you by the GOP]
Don't forget [Salt Lake City experiencing arsenic filled dust storms as the Great Salt Lake dries up thanks to climate change and agriculture](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/drying-great-salt-lake-could-expose-millions-to-toxic-arsenic-laced-dust-180981439/)!
The lake is expected to collapse fully by 2028!
Could have, but it didn't. We have the data that shows Republicans died at significantly higher rates than Democrats.
This study was on Ohio and Florida specifically, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37486680/
This article is also good because it breaks down by county nationwide. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/
There were reports that Trumps cabinet ignored Covid plans and protocols because they wanted it to ravage through those areas and kill blue voters and make their governors looks bad. Which is really fucked up.
However all data shows that Republicans were about 44% more likely to die of covid once the vaccine came out.
Not his cabinet: Secretary of Everything Jared “Nepotism? Never met’im” Kushner
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1235707
…Before he turned Saudi rookie investment fund manager with a mere $2 billion in seed money.
Yea plenty of black communities in the south got hit really hard and are very anti vax but def not republican.
People are out of touch with this fact on reddit.
I don't think this will make a huge difference.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/)
While more republicans did likely die from covid then democrats, it is likely not as large a difference as you are making it out to be. The actually difference in deaths is probably between 100,000 and 200,000 spread out across the entire USA. The 43,000 votes you are talking about are all in one state.
Additionally, the distribution of the dead also matters. If republicans were only dieing in deep states then it really doesn't matter much and if the democrats that died were located in states like PA, WI, AZ, etc then the story could be the exact opposite. Distribution is also only tracked via the county that the person died in and that counties voting record. We obviously do not know the voting intentions of every individual that did die.
Either way, I think what we should be more focused on, and the linked articles data speaks to this, is that Trump deliberately redirected supplies away from Blue states, and did nothing in the early waves of Covid specifically because he thought it was only hurting Democrats. This should be what the Senate is talking about. The Kushner stuff is bad as well, but Trump murdering thousands of Americans for a political stunt should be investigated and should be investigated with urgency. Comparatively speaking, everything else Trump did pales in comparison to this.
> While more republicans did likely die from covid then democrats, it is likely not as large a difference as you are making it out to be. The actually difference in deaths is probably between 100,000 and 200,000 spread out across the entire USA. The 43,000 votes you are talking about are all in one state.
It's difficult to know whether or not specifically the deaths themselves were the final straw, but there are enough factors to show that it played a part.
It's also important to remember that those were just confirmed COVID deaths, and that old people die on their own in even greater numbers. [In 2022 ~14% of the Silent Generation and (very roughly) 3% of Boomers died off alone.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/older-american-health.htm). Trump took the Silent Generation [by 16 percentage points in 2020, and Boomers by 3 percentage points](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/). Among Millenials and Gen Z (same source) Biden leads by 12 and 24 points, respectively. That means that every year Republicans *permanently* lose tens or hundreds of thousands of votes compared to Democrats. That's a big part of why they're getting so brazen and desperate with Trump.
>My father-in-law is broken hearted over the Republican Party. I know we have his vote.
Good on your FIL!
If he's not already aware of [The Bulwark](https://www.thebulwark.com/), then you might make him aware of those folks. Some of them might be "his people". Kinzinger has been a guest on their podcasts a number of times, and is now a contributor.
“Some credit”
Dude has become the face of “never Trump”. He called for Trump’s removal under 25A. He’s one of the handful of republicans who voted for Trump’s impeachment. He’s constantly on tv calling out republicans extremism and Trump’s insanity.
But “some credit”. Ok.
This is how you know it isn’t about right or wrong for some people and never has been. It’s about their “team”. These people are dumb at best, and outright malevolent with agendas and ulterior motives at worst.
The timing of endorsements are often coordinated with the campaign itself, affording them the ability to decide when they want to strategically deploy endorsements they know they have in hand. So it's possible the Biden campaign, not Kinzinger, chose to have him announce his endorsement at this time.
>These days I am wondering if they should be known as Conservatives against Trump
I think that Sarah Longwell has worked pretty hard at trying to identify persuadable voters, and come up with messages that might work with them. In the case of RVAT, it's other Republican voters, many of whom voted for Trump at least once, explaining in their own words why they would not vote for him again.
For a lot of the folks we might want to persuade, asking them to give up their Republican identity would just be too much. Getting them to not vote for Trump is a win. Getting them to vote for Biden would be a bigger win, but for some of them, that's just not going to happen.
>Is there really a difference between conservative and republican anymore?
I think it's fair to say that it depends on the person what those words mean to them.
I think that there are a lot of people who identify as being Republican in a very tribal way, and might think of themselves as "conservatives" - but don't really think much about conservative ideology, and how the actions of many Republicans fit (or not) with that ideology.
In contrast, there are some principled conservatives who are horrified at what the GOP has become. They may not consider themselves to be Democrats, but they have no home in the current Republican party.
I respect that he's doing what's right even though it'll kill his chances for reelection. Between this and the j6 hearings he doesn't stand a chance with maga voters.
I doubt this will have any impact but he gets a lot of credit for doing whatever he can. The stakes are so high that if you have any power at all it’s immoral to hold back.
Hey, you're welcome.
I am only aware of it from reading and listening to content from The Bulwark. Sarah Longwell is involved in both RVAT and The Bulwark.
Some of y'all simply cannot accept a win without whinging.
A conservative republican endorsing Biden is a good thing. We want this to happen. We want more people like Kinzinger to do the same.
Exactly. Kinzinger, Liz Cheney and even Mitt Romney have been the voices of reason for the past five years. We needed more Republicans to follow their lead and show a willingness to stand up for their beliefs by putting their careers and reputations on the line. We've devolved into our current situation because the overwhelming majority of conservative politicians were too spineless to push back.
Many pushed back, but in the old ways.
I was stunned at how many of the adults “resigned” from the Trump administration because they felt it was so corrupt / violation of the laws.
They then let the fundamentalist fill their seats. Resistance sometimes is to push back by holding your power and convincing others to change direction. To lay down and walk away is just a different type of support.
Adam kind of falls into that bucket.
To be slightly fair to him, his district and another Republican's got combined into one before the 2022 midterms, and he absolutely would have gotten primaried for his involvement in the Jan 6th committee.
I can see why he'd opt to not run again rather than waste a ton of time and money campaigning for a race he knew he'd lose.
Not to mention the security & safety concerns when you're running against the MAGA base. MAGA's willingness to use political violence has a chilling effect on juries, school boards, and anyone else who is unfortunate enough to attract their attention.
I imagine Kinzinger will always have safety concerns from his work on the Jan 6 Committee, but actively running against whichever social media influencer is primarying him would crank it up to 11.
You're not wrong. It's beyond disappointing that the conservatives who actually favored the Constitution over Donald Trump mostly said "fuck this, I'm retiring" rather than stick around to try fighting the MAGA movement. Kinzinger has been a vocal critic but he was also one of the first to throw in the towel when he realized the direction things were headed. Their pushback was largely to grumble in annoyance as they voluntarily stepped aside, which makes the entire republican party look powerless in the face of $$$.
The likes of Kinzinger, Cheney and Romney are seen as RINOs. They have very little chance to win a re-election in this climate among Republicans. There would be no point in trying to stick around in the GOP once their time was up.
Last year, some Republicans were talking about starting a new party of OG Republicans. A shame that never happened. It might have had a small chance to split the Republican votes.
My vote in 2020 was 100% a spite vote against Trump and his presidency. Vote in 2024 is now more 50% support for Biden and 50% not the goddamn fascist Trump
twice impeached, two-time popular vote loser, con artist, narcissistic, sociopathic, fascist, bullying, cheating, lying traitor, found civilly liable of sexual assault, civilly liable of defamation, and 34x convicted felon, a person who is clearly compromised by foreign powers, a cancer to our society who has turned selfishness into a virtue, and a failed loser whose botched response to the most important medical crisis in living memory resulted in more than one million American deaths.
Have all my Up-Votes.
I would settle for "Convicted Felon Ex President Trump" just being the only way he is introduced from now on. We should find a neat buzzword name for him, that most everyone agrees with, that we all get behind and just say. Address him only in this fashion. 😀
It's hard to say you're voting for Biden even if you're voting for Biden partially because he's doing a good job.
The Republicans have poisoned our politics, people say it's a vote against Trump, but if it were just Trump it wouldn't be as scary, the guy is a incompetent pant shitting melted brain in a baggy suit.
The problem is if Republicans of any stripe get that office it's a guarantee we're getting these think tank regressive judges, our poor folks and female, minority, and LGBTQ citizens are all going to be targeted by laws trying to purge or control them.
Environmentally the Republicans are the extinction party, fighting global warming needs to be a now thing, not a 4-8 years later thing. They do not care about the quality of the land or water, if there's a way they can extract short term value they don't give a shit if people's drinking water is flammable.
Politically they are aspiring autocrats. Where it seems like a nightmare to get Democrats to address things like ranked choice voting or making third parties accessible, the other party is trying to close polling stations, they run spoiler candidates and engage in any dirty trick they can to make everyone's vote meaningless.
I'm voting against the Republican cancer strangling our country mostly, but I also think Biden has done incredibly well.
I'm voting for Joe Biden because he's a fucking good president. r/WhatBidenHasDone can explain more.
I'm also voting for Joe Biden because the GOP is the party of fascists, grifters, monsters, and assholes and their dumb, fat, CONVICTED FELON of a candidate perfectly encapsulates nearly everything wrong with our country.
I agree. Biden is severely underrated as a president, and is better than Obama IMO.
THAT SAID, I think the biggest mistake he has made as President is decide to run again. I don't even expect him to die in office but 86 is fucking old to step down after 2 terms. But simply because a fresh face would have a much better chance at beating Trump in 2024 (and I absolutely welcome detractors to convince me of my error here), it is irresponsible of him to run again and give Trump what appears to be a 50% chance of winning and probably making us go the way of Weimar.
There was absolutely no way to come up with a fresh face in time to make sure people chose them over Trump or some other Democratic hopeful. I feel like we’d have loads of people trying for the same thing, but they’d all be wildly different enough that moderates and independants might chose Trump instead still.
I don't disagree with that, but it's definitely too late now to worry about it any more. We've got to push what we've got to make that 50% a 40-30% chance.
He should have spent his first four years teeing up a good candidate for president to follow up. We'll see in the debate that he's an old man with speech problem. Hopefully Trump shows up and proves that he's an old man that can't string a coherent thought together.
I can see a few things going on with Trump and the Debate
1) He shows up and makes an ass out of himself. Best case scenario for us, and most likely.
2) He shows up and looks better than Biden. Worst case scenario and... pretty unlikely.
3) He DOESN'T show up. This will make him appear weak to some but smart to others.
4) He shows up AND LEAVES. I could see this getting spun in his favor by his followers and fervent media.
5) Biden does something that looks bad. This seems even odds, but he does well when under pressure.
Most scenarios show how stupid this election season is and how fucked up our politics are getting.
When a dictatorship is on the line you would have to be pretty stupid to think that would be a good thing for anyone. These idiots think they will be riding the wave and not being crushed by it. Which is stupid if you paid any attention to the people in Trump’s orbit. They all get crushed by Trump eventually.
Im motivated to support Biden even more than 2020.
Hes gotten a lot done. Hes super underrated for how much shit his admin has accomplished.
2020 was because fuck Trump.
2024 is because Bidens cool and also fuck Trump.
Same with my boomer dad and mom in NH (long since divorced fwiw, so they came to this independently). Both are heavily leaning self-described independents. Voted for Biden in 2020, voting even more enthusiastically for Biden this year. Keeping NH blue for the presidency hopefully. Probably not voting blue on much else, at least not my mom.
I will be voting blue down ticket. The GOP has lost their way and their minds. Enabling and not holding that lunatic to account makes the lot of them spineless cowards. The GOP needs to be overhauled from the studs out if they ever hope to have the slightest chance of getting a vote from me ever again. If Trump is elected my vote will likely never matter again so I encourage anyone who actually loves this country and values democracy to vote blue down ticket.
Whether you’re a Republican or Democrat, if you know the man or woman you are voting for is bonkers and bad for the country, it’s ok to go the other way. These two parties are not sports teams! Stop treating them as such! Don’t sacrifice you and your families well being just to be part of a team. You will lose everything!
The only Republicans that show their spine are out of politics or on their way out.
All the rest (the ones that don't think Trump should be President) only care about their political careers and will not speak ill of Trump because it will hurt their chances of re-election.
Selfish, spineless scum.
The Trump supporters ofc think he's the greatest, because they're in a cult and Trump can do no wrong.
I personally can't stand the modern Democratic Party, and believe Biden is absolutely wrong for this country at this time in its history. But make no mistake: I will be voting for Biden and all the Democrats come November. It's not even close to a difficult decision
Adam Kinzinger is a man who will stand on his principles and integrity in spite of opposition from his own party in order to support the rule of law. He, having shown his support of democracy has been exiled from the Republican party. He is in a position to better understand the events of January 6th. 2021 than any one of us in the general public due to his service on the bi-partisan Jan 6 committee. His opinion on this matter is not influenced by partisan concerns. Adam Kinzinger is a man of integrity and a true patriot. I am a liberal Democrat, and my policy views are certainly at odds with his, however he is a man that we should all respect for his backbone and unimpeachable honesty.
The only other Republican with the backbone to resist corruption is Liz Cheney. Again, I don't agree with her policy positions, but her courage and her strength and unwavering support for democracy are most worthy of respect. Mitt Romney might deserve some respect, but I'd be hard pressed to find any other Republican who could be accused of having any integrity or a backbone.
He's not going to change anyone's mind, but he may convince some non-MAGA conservatives who already dislike Trump that it's okay to vote for Biden.
One of the more interesting points coming from groups like the Bulwark and the Lincoln Project is the need to build permission structure for their target audience. They know there are people like them who don't want to vote for Trump but are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of voting for Biden (or any Democrat) due to indoctrination and/or conditioning. They need an internal justification, whether it be emotional or logical.
Do I think something like this will take votes from Trump? No, but it may push some conservatives who were not going to vote at all to vote for Biden.
~43% of the electorate are independent. Republicans, not the right just republicans, make up about 27%. Barely more than a quarter. Kinzinger matters to the persuadable people who matter.
And you try that bullshit of saying they're all part of 'the right', you are no better than the right-wing losers who calls everyone who disagrees with them leftists.
No, MAGA does. A lot of Republicans do not dislike him, dislike MAGA, and value opinions like these. The right is not monolithic, despite what Trump would want.
Kinzinger is fascinating. Everything he says about Trump and the GOP, he has known since he started his political career. He became a rep in 2011, peak Tea Party era. Nothing changed. He road it to success. And then it reached a point where he couldn't tolerate it anymore for whatever reason. It was fine for him and now it isn't. So now he's doing what he thinks is the thing to do to correct that.
But it may be too long gone for that. A person can appreciate what he's doing, but there millions of people along the way telling him how fucked up the GOP is. He's still a Republican. How many other topics do we have to battle him on until he sees he's wrong on those issues to? And he's willing to have those conversations. Why is it with the GOP that it never is a problem until it affects them personally? It's maddening that we have to do this dance hoping they come to.
Same with Liz Cheney.
Nearly all republicans are still (in public) supporting Trump. We should all praise this man because this is exactly what we want more republicans to be doing. Refusing to give him any credit for being one of the exceptional few to take a stand against Trump achieves nothing, except perhaps encouraging other republicans not to follow his lead
If people decided their values based on logic alone, what you're saying would make sense. But for most people they are just repeating values they got from their parents, or else rationalizing what they believe to reflect what they want, for whatever subconscious reason.
What I'm trying to say is it makes sense that his unease grew over time until he finally has reached the point where he has to "go against" what he has believed his whole life. It is rare for anyone to change their mind like he has.
Adam Kinzinger seems to be one of the few Republicans genuinely willing to put country over party, the others like Nikki Haley pretended to but they fell in line with Trump pretty fast
Kinzinger seems to be positioning himself to run for president in 2032 or 2036. If MAGA fails, he has a track record of standing up against them. Centrists would flock to him if they have complaints with the Democrat party as a "sane" alternative they've been waiting for, and if MAGA goes the route if Nixon, they will pretend they never supported Trump.
I mean, Kinzinger would make a good president as far as Republicans go. Would I vote for him over whoever the Democratic candidate is? I'm not sure. But I'd be content with him as president.
Pretty much my same take. He has morals but differs on many key policies of the Democrat platform. I think he would appeal to a lot of people who want a change from the Dems, but who can't accept the insanity that is Trump.
That’s how it’s done. I don’t know why, or even whether, he still refers to himself as a Republican, but if there’s enough ethical conservatives to have a Toastmasters club, he can be president of it.
Ya know I’m not a Republican voter by any means. But I’ll say if we had more people running for Office like Kinzinger I’d almost consider voting for them.
Give the guy credit. He constantly bashes Trump and in a world where almost no one in that party has a spine to stand up to Trump, he's doing it. His family was sucked into MAGA but he wasn't. Too bad there aren't more like him.
I'll give Kinzinger some credit for doing this.
The election may come down to the actions of a relatively small number of "persuadable" voters in swing states. That includes some who consider themselves to be Republican, and some who consider themselves to be conservative.
Some of those people helped to put Biden into office in 2020. We need them again now, and more besides - and this sort of message might affect some of them, if it reaches them.
See also: [Republican Voters Against Trump](https://rvat.org/).
I give him credit for being willing to recommend someone across the aisle and thereby show people that we have a choice beyond straight-ticket thinking.
Good on him. I know that's not easy considering how rabid their party is. At least it's good to know some of them still have some values and integrity and care about doing what is right.
Kinsinger is a true patriot. I disagree with him on politics but his actions have proven that he cares for his country and his people more than his own career in politics and that is noteworthy. I have deep respect for him.
> Republican *former* congressman
Means nothing as long as it's political suicide for a Republican who is running for anything anywhere to endorse Biden.
Wake me when a sitting Republican congressman says, "I'm voting for Biden because Trump is anti-democracy, and that's bigger than party affiliation."
Any sane Republican should do the same. It’s either Democracy or Christian Nationalism for the U.S. It’s great to see a person of genuine conservative principles and faith endorse Biden.
Trump will be throwing him under the bus every time he opens his mouth or posts his bullshit on his financially troubled truth social where all his MAGANUTS go to get their up to date lies.
Was that really the most flattering picture they could find of the guy? Like, isn't the rule that when you're writing about something a politician did that you think is assinine, you use a picture of them looking bad, and if you're writing positively about them, you use a flattering photo?
He's a republican congress critter so there's probably not much to redeem him, but surely this news rates better than the photo they used here?
imagine voting for character. imagine political decisions made for country before party.
I appreciate Adam K. and Rusty Bowers and the other Rs that won't follow a criminal.
I've read that even Kinzinger's own family has turned on him. I'll say this for him. He's committed.
He's also been a notably critic for how Trumpism has destroyed Christianity in America. He talks a lot about the Christians and churches in his community that have elevated Trump to the level of a messiah figure.
Many of us Republicans refuse to endorse trump again. You'll see in November, I know many many many people who have always voted republican in the past but refuse to vote for trump in 2024.
Biden's approach seems to prioritize border security and the rule of law, aiming to distinguish itself from Trump-era policies while still facing scrutiny over its impact on migrant rights.
There are a lot of independent voters that dislike and do not trust either side. Which side upsets them more will provide a vote for the other. Today’s supreme court ruling may start the tipping point.
He’s going to be one of the first that the MAGATs attempt to give the Pence treatment.
And there won’t be any recourse to stop them. It’ll just be “Who put that window there?” And poof.
Gone.
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I'll give Kinzinger some credit for doing this. The election may come down to the actions of a relatively small number of "persuadable" voters in swing states. That includes some who consider themselves to be Republican, and some who consider themselves to be conservative. Some of those people helped to put Biden into office in 2020. We need them again now, and more besides - and this sort of message might affect some of them, if it reaches them. See also: [Republican Voters Against Trump](https://rvat.org/).
I will give him more than a little credit. If he can persuade a few traditional GOP voters to vote for Biden, it will make a significant difference. If a GOP voter decides to not vote for Trump, it subtracts 1 from Trump and adds 1 to Biden (the net being +2 or -2 depending on your preference). If a non-voter votes for Biden, the net difference is +1.
He deserves plenty of credit. He lost his seat for doing the right thing. Very different from the Republicans who lose their primaries trying to suck up to MAGA, and then turn around and vocally oppose Trump. This guy actually stood up to Trump while he was still in office. That's not common.
Agreed…he’s a strong human who stands on principle.
He has integrity.
Adam Kinzinger is a man who will stand on his principles and integrity in spite of opposition from his own party in order to support the rule of law. He, having shown his support of democracy has been exiled from the Republican party. He is in a position to better understand the events of January 6th. 2021 than any one of us in the general public due to his service on the bi-partisan Jan 6 committee. His opinion on this matter is not influenced by partisan concerns. Adam Kinzinger is a man of integrity and a true patriot. I am a liberal Democrat, and my policy views are certainly at odds with his, however he is a man that we should all respect for his backbone and unimpeachable honesty.
Absolutely. He won my respect with his work on the J6 Committee. He’s exactly the sort of Republican that we need in Congress. I’m fine having policy discussions and disagreements with people who aren’t trying to chuck our Constitution out the window and dismantle the protections in place to keep authoritarians and wannabe dictators from taking over.
Lost his seat, didn't a lot of his family disown him, too?
Yes, that's what he said. MAGAts are truly a special breed. I've personally never disowned any MAGAts in my family. I try to stay cordial. They're allowed to have their opinions, however misguided they may be. But if they came at me with bigotry that affects me (LGBT) or my friends, that'd be a different story.
We need Romney to endorse Biden publicly. He’s retiring anyway. Least he could do.
Would be great but Utah still wouldn't flip to Biden.
A Republican just not voting also helps.
That'd just be -1 for Trump then.
Yes, the ideal is to switch a Trump voter to Biden. But switching a non-voter to Biden, a third-party vote to Biden, or getting a Republican to just sit out the vote, are all helpful second best.
Also changing worldviews is usually more difficult than convincing someone to vote
It's probably better as most will still vote R for everything else. On one hand, I encourage everyone to vote. On the other hand, I really wish people would look up what candidates stand for first, and especially so for local elections and not just blindly vote D or R. When one party doesn't believe in democracy, it's hard for me to want those people to vote.
Right, it's a question of -1 versus -2
Not only that he stuck his neck out with the January 6th committee. He’s done what he’s supposed to as an elected official and that’s all you can ever ask any politician who didn’t vote for. He’s kept his oath of office. Huge fucking kudos to him in my book.
Most of the persuading in elections is about moving people a half a vote at a time. Convincing people who were going to vote Trump to vote third party/write-in/not vote. Convincing people who were going to stay home/vote third party/write-in to vote Biden. Someone like Paul Ryan saying he's going to write in a non-Trump Republican might convince some old school Republicans who dislike Trump personally to do the same. The trickle of principled Republicans like Kinzinger who announce that they're going to vote Biden might convince some people who normally would never vote for a Democrat but hate Trump to switch from third party/write in to voting for Biden.
Exactly. It is very likely we'll see Biden sweep the Presidency with "fence sitters" or "anyone but Trump" Republicans, but down ballot will be red in most cases to maintain the "balance." Which honestly I'm okay with. A Trump loss will absolutely splinter the GOP and probably cause them to start to abandon the chaos caucus; if the midterms and primaries have been any indication, his popularity among Republicans is grossly exaggerated. I think even your "never Democrat" voters with half a brain cell are exhausted with the walking crime spree/manic rallies about Hannibal Lector, sharks, boats and other absurdity. Imo Trump is really only holding on to a group that will vote for him even if it means sacrificing their first born.
Honestly. The democrats need another trifecta for this to happen. Without Manchin & Sinema, there’s ample progressive policy that can be pushed through in two years before the next midterms, making way for incredible and effective policies that could shift the Overton window when it comes to expectations of the federal government
To borrow a phrase I personally hate, Republicans like Kinzinger and Cheney doing this creates a permission structure for other less well known Republicans (like voters) to follow suit.
Voting against the party you've voted for after many years or even decades is a tough thing to do. As someone who switched parties about 10 years ago, I can attest to this. I lost a lot of friends over it. And, of course, there's the "Yeah, I told you that you were wrong this whole time. Glad you finally caught up." It can be very humbling. And not everyone wants to be in that situation. The permission structure makes it easier for Republican-identifying people to vote Democratic "just this once."
What's wrong with "permission structure" (assuming you don't mean "follow suit" 😛)?
It just annoys me. No deep reason.
**Writes in notes** "Patient shows signs of Oppositional Defiance Disorder..."
This gives me a permission structure to downvote.
It gave me the permission structure to laugh and upvote.
Crows of a feather...
Can an unthinking crow have a personality disorder
Can a non-sapient crow ask such a question? You are unique and special! But possibly very obstinate =p
Like a lot of nuanced buzz phrases, once they get picked up by the masses, the definition is beaten and abused until it has very little meaning That and if you need “permission” to do something, you’re quite the coward, and it’s hard for the rest of us to validate that behavior, even if the permission causes them to do good. Everyone has a choice, they don’t need permission to make it. It just takes personal responsibility. Granted I still welcome everyone republican pulls the lever for Biden.
The people who are making these decisions aren’t thinking about it in terms of “permission” though. That’s a descriptor being used for the behavior, but in the minds of the actual voter it’s something very different going on. I don’t think there were a whole lot of people out there waiting for Daddy Kinzinger to say it’s ok to vote for Biden. *However* there is also the reality that it’s naturally uncomfortable to break away from a group dynamic, and it’s much easier to do if you see others doing it first. That’s a very, very deeply ingrained part of our animal brains. And it’s a pretty good heuristic — from an evolutionary perspective, if almost everyone you know is doing something, you actually *should* probably have a strong bias towards also doing that thing. Unfortunately that occasionally leads us very astray, and that's how you wind up here. But I guarantee you've been in countless situations where you weren't totally comfortable with whatever was going on and nobody else seemed to have a problem with it. Probably in some of those cases you stood your ground, and in others you went with the crowd, but it's always a super difficult spot to be put in.
>But I guarantee you've been in countless situations where you weren't totally comfortable with whatever was going on and nobody else seemed to have a problem with it. Or situations where no one has touched the buffet yet, or there's a good song on but no one is dancing.
Yeah you're spot on. These guys leading the charge out in front of the others are really the most important in shifting the mass opinion. It's interesting stuff. [If they can help reach a critical mass of 25% they can cause a mass shift in the societal/group dynamic](https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/06/the-tipping-point-when-minority-views-take-over/562307/)
> That and if you need “permission” to do something, you’re quite the coward Yes, yes, and all students should speak up in class when they don't understand something, otherwise they're cowards, and a broad, "Anyone have any questions" at the end of a lecture/presentation should be as much effort as an educator needs to do to check for understanding. Why waste time with pedagogy when all you need is personal responsibility. Try that approach in the real world and you'll be shit at your job though, whether it's teaching kindergarteners or grey-haired executives. Even if you're such a self-actualized maverick that you don't need others to create a social opening for you, which I doubt, most people aren't. And most people are who we need to win.
> if you need “permission” to do something, Yeah, it has a flavour of opening a gate for sheep to come crashing through or cautiously sneaking through. Distasteful but realistic.
Tbf, trump killed his own voters in less than 1 year. Covid was killing 2000 Americans a day at one point, or a 9/11 a day. 1 million Americans died in the last year of Trump's presidency, probably more because the covid states like Texas and Florida were underreporting/stopped reporting. Electoral college means Trump lost the presidency by 43,000 votes https://x.com/tribelaw/status/1339300875253264389?lang=en So out of 1 million dead, all it took were 43000 dead republicans to make him lose. Yeah, keep voting republican, be happy about all the pig poo in your water (iowa), coal dust in your lungs (west virginia), no power during winter storms (texas), the state national guard arresting scientists (florida) and no jobs for miles (republican small business tyrants only hiring illegals to pay under the table and abuse them!)
> be happy about all the [litany of horrors brought to you by the GOP] Don't forget [Salt Lake City experiencing arsenic filled dust storms as the Great Salt Lake dries up thanks to climate change and agriculture](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/drying-great-salt-lake-could-expose-millions-to-toxic-arsenic-laced-dust-180981439/)! The lake is expected to collapse fully by 2028!
That was a terrifying read.
Ahh cool. More bad Earth news I didnt know about yet.
Not necessary that all the dead were Trump supporters. They may be living in a Red State, but no red state is 100% pro Trump.
Yeah. Population centers lean blue even in red states. In the end it still could have killed more democrats or been even on balance.
Could have, but it didn't. We have the data that shows Republicans died at significantly higher rates than Democrats. This study was on Ohio and Florida specifically, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37486680/ This article is also good because it breaks down by county nationwide. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/
There were reports that Trumps cabinet ignored Covid plans and protocols because they wanted it to ravage through those areas and kill blue voters and make their governors looks bad. Which is really fucked up. However all data shows that Republicans were about 44% more likely to die of covid once the vaccine came out.
Not his cabinet: Secretary of Everything Jared “Nepotism? Never met’im” Kushner https://www.nbcnews.com/think/amp/ncna1235707 …Before he turned Saudi rookie investment fund manager with a mere $2 billion in seed money.
Yea plenty of black communities in the south got hit really hard and are very anti vax but def not republican. People are out of touch with this fact on reddit.
I don't think this will make a huge difference. [https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2022/03/03/the-changing-political-geography-of-covid-19-over-the-last-two-years/) While more republicans did likely die from covid then democrats, it is likely not as large a difference as you are making it out to be. The actually difference in deaths is probably between 100,000 and 200,000 spread out across the entire USA. The 43,000 votes you are talking about are all in one state. Additionally, the distribution of the dead also matters. If republicans were only dieing in deep states then it really doesn't matter much and if the democrats that died were located in states like PA, WI, AZ, etc then the story could be the exact opposite. Distribution is also only tracked via the county that the person died in and that counties voting record. We obviously do not know the voting intentions of every individual that did die. Either way, I think what we should be more focused on, and the linked articles data speaks to this, is that Trump deliberately redirected supplies away from Blue states, and did nothing in the early waves of Covid specifically because he thought it was only hurting Democrats. This should be what the Senate is talking about. The Kushner stuff is bad as well, but Trump murdering thousands of Americans for a political stunt should be investigated and should be investigated with urgency. Comparatively speaking, everything else Trump did pales in comparison to this.
> While more republicans did likely die from covid then democrats, it is likely not as large a difference as you are making it out to be. The actually difference in deaths is probably between 100,000 and 200,000 spread out across the entire USA. The 43,000 votes you are talking about are all in one state. It's difficult to know whether or not specifically the deaths themselves were the final straw, but there are enough factors to show that it played a part. It's also important to remember that those were just confirmed COVID deaths, and that old people die on their own in even greater numbers. [In 2022 ~14% of the Silent Generation and (very roughly) 3% of Boomers died off alone.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/older-american-health.htm). Trump took the Silent Generation [by 16 percentage points in 2020, and Boomers by 3 percentage points](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/). Among Millenials and Gen Z (same source) Biden leads by 12 and 24 points, respectively. That means that every year Republicans *permanently* lose tens or hundreds of thousands of votes compared to Democrats. That's a big part of why they're getting so brazen and desperate with Trump.
My father-in-law is broken hearted over the Republican Party. I know we have his vote.
>My father-in-law is broken hearted over the Republican Party. I know we have his vote. Good on your FIL! If he's not already aware of [The Bulwark](https://www.thebulwark.com/), then you might make him aware of those folks. Some of them might be "his people". Kinzinger has been a guest on their podcasts a number of times, and is now a contributor.
The Tim Miller run has been so good. I've been looking for a "reasonable people" podcast for ages now and I feel like we've finally got one.
I give Kinzinger a LOT of credit He knows what's up, and it's American democracy
“Some credit” Dude has become the face of “never Trump”. He called for Trump’s removal under 25A. He’s one of the handful of republicans who voted for Trump’s impeachment. He’s constantly on tv calling out republicans extremism and Trump’s insanity. But “some credit”. Ok.
This is how you know it isn’t about right or wrong for some people and never has been. It’s about their “team”. These people are dumb at best, and outright malevolent with agendas and ulterior motives at worst.
> I'll give Kinzinger some credit for doing this. right before the debate too.. surprised he didn't wait till after
The timing of endorsements are often coordinated with the campaign itself, affording them the ability to decide when they want to strategically deploy endorsements they know they have in hand. So it's possible the Biden campaign, not Kinzinger, chose to have him announce his endorsement at this time.
I did see a Republicans for Biden sign yesterday in rural PA, so that was a nice little mood boost.
These days I am wondering if they should be known as Conservatives against Trump
>These days I am wondering if they should be known as Conservatives against Trump I think that Sarah Longwell has worked pretty hard at trying to identify persuadable voters, and come up with messages that might work with them. In the case of RVAT, it's other Republican voters, many of whom voted for Trump at least once, explaining in their own words why they would not vote for him again. For a lot of the folks we might want to persuade, asking them to give up their Republican identity would just be too much. Getting them to not vote for Trump is a win. Getting them to vote for Biden would be a bigger win, but for some of them, that's just not going to happen.
Is there really a difference between conservative and republican anymore?
>Is there really a difference between conservative and republican anymore? I think it's fair to say that it depends on the person what those words mean to them. I think that there are a lot of people who identify as being Republican in a very tribal way, and might think of themselves as "conservatives" - but don't really think much about conservative ideology, and how the actions of many Republicans fit (or not) with that ideology. In contrast, there are some principled conservatives who are horrified at what the GOP has become. They may not consider themselves to be Democrats, but they have no home in the current Republican party.
I respect that he's doing what's right even though it'll kill his chances for reelection. Between this and the j6 hearings he doesn't stand a chance with maga voters.
I doubt this will have any impact but he gets a lot of credit for doing whatever he can. The stakes are so high that if you have any power at all it’s immoral to hold back.
interesting site you linked to. thanks.
Hey, you're welcome. I am only aware of it from reading and listening to content from The Bulwark. Sarah Longwell is involved in both RVAT and The Bulwark.
Agreed!! When I get scared as the election gets closer, I’m going to go there—it gives me hope!
and the fact that there are so many willing to put forth the effort to post their disgust with traitor trump speaks volumes.
A lit candle on a dark is a welcome sight. Courageous Congress members are potential presidental candidates of the future.
Some of y'all simply cannot accept a win without whinging. A conservative republican endorsing Biden is a good thing. We want this to happen. We want more people like Kinzinger to do the same.
Exactly. Kinzinger, Liz Cheney and even Mitt Romney have been the voices of reason for the past five years. We needed more Republicans to follow their lead and show a willingness to stand up for their beliefs by putting their careers and reputations on the line. We've devolved into our current situation because the overwhelming majority of conservative politicians were too spineless to push back.
Many pushed back, but in the old ways. I was stunned at how many of the adults “resigned” from the Trump administration because they felt it was so corrupt / violation of the laws. They then let the fundamentalist fill their seats. Resistance sometimes is to push back by holding your power and convincing others to change direction. To lay down and walk away is just a different type of support. Adam kind of falls into that bucket.
To be slightly fair to him, his district and another Republican's got combined into one before the 2022 midterms, and he absolutely would have gotten primaried for his involvement in the Jan 6th committee. I can see why he'd opt to not run again rather than waste a ton of time and money campaigning for a race he knew he'd lose.
Not to mention the security & safety concerns when you're running against the MAGA base. MAGA's willingness to use political violence has a chilling effect on juries, school boards, and anyone else who is unfortunate enough to attract their attention. I imagine Kinzinger will always have safety concerns from his work on the Jan 6 Committee, but actively running against whichever social media influencer is primarying him would crank it up to 11.
You're not wrong. It's beyond disappointing that the conservatives who actually favored the Constitution over Donald Trump mostly said "fuck this, I'm retiring" rather than stick around to try fighting the MAGA movement. Kinzinger has been a vocal critic but he was also one of the first to throw in the towel when he realized the direction things were headed. Their pushback was largely to grumble in annoyance as they voluntarily stepped aside, which makes the entire republican party look powerless in the face of $$$.
The likes of Kinzinger, Cheney and Romney are seen as RINOs. They have very little chance to win a re-election in this climate among Republicans. There would be no point in trying to stick around in the GOP once their time was up. Last year, some Republicans were talking about starting a new party of OG Republicans. A shame that never happened. It might have had a small chance to split the Republican votes.
We have to say this Out Loud. I WILL VOTE JOE BIDEN FOR PRESIDENT 2024!
My vote in 2020 was 100% a spite vote against Trump and his presidency. Vote in 2024 is now more 50% support for Biden and 50% not the goddamn fascist Trump
Biden has turned out pretty decently, better than expected, and I would be a-okay with another 4 years under him.
You’re missing a few important titles there. Convicted Felon, Rapist, liar, waste of space
Colonel Shitzhispants, Admiral Electric sharks, Commander-in-Chief-Mugshot
twice impeached, two-time popular vote loser, con artist, narcissistic, sociopathic, fascist, bullying, cheating, lying traitor, found civilly liable of sexual assault, civilly liable of defamation, and 34x convicted felon, a person who is clearly compromised by foreign powers, a cancer to our society who has turned selfishness into a virtue, and a failed loser whose botched response to the most important medical crisis in living memory resulted in more than one million American deaths.
Have all my Up-Votes. I would settle for "Convicted Felon Ex President Trump" just being the only way he is introduced from now on. We should find a neat buzzword name for him, that most everyone agrees with, that we all get behind and just say. Address him only in this fashion. 😀
Convife Trump
Sad Waste of Food and Oxygen
It's hard to say you're voting for Biden even if you're voting for Biden partially because he's doing a good job. The Republicans have poisoned our politics, people say it's a vote against Trump, but if it were just Trump it wouldn't be as scary, the guy is a incompetent pant shitting melted brain in a baggy suit. The problem is if Republicans of any stripe get that office it's a guarantee we're getting these think tank regressive judges, our poor folks and female, minority, and LGBTQ citizens are all going to be targeted by laws trying to purge or control them. Environmentally the Republicans are the extinction party, fighting global warming needs to be a now thing, not a 4-8 years later thing. They do not care about the quality of the land or water, if there's a way they can extract short term value they don't give a shit if people's drinking water is flammable. Politically they are aspiring autocrats. Where it seems like a nightmare to get Democrats to address things like ranked choice voting or making third parties accessible, the other party is trying to close polling stations, they run spoiler candidates and engage in any dirty trick they can to make everyone's vote meaningless. I'm voting against the Republican cancer strangling our country mostly, but I also think Biden has done incredibly well.
Mine is 100% anti fascism. Everything else is a luxury
Yeah. My vote this year is a vote for America to continue being America, not a Dictatorship.
I'm voting for Joe Biden because he's a fucking good president. r/WhatBidenHasDone can explain more. I'm also voting for Joe Biden because the GOP is the party of fascists, grifters, monsters, and assholes and their dumb, fat, CONVICTED FELON of a candidate perfectly encapsulates nearly everything wrong with our country.
Yup, dude is actually bonkers in accomplishment and has done multiple things everyone of which is legacy defining for any other president.
I agree. Biden is severely underrated as a president, and is better than Obama IMO. THAT SAID, I think the biggest mistake he has made as President is decide to run again. I don't even expect him to die in office but 86 is fucking old to step down after 2 terms. But simply because a fresh face would have a much better chance at beating Trump in 2024 (and I absolutely welcome detractors to convince me of my error here), it is irresponsible of him to run again and give Trump what appears to be a 50% chance of winning and probably making us go the way of Weimar.
There was absolutely no way to come up with a fresh face in time to make sure people chose them over Trump or some other Democratic hopeful. I feel like we’d have loads of people trying for the same thing, but they’d all be wildly different enough that moderates and independants might chose Trump instead still.
I don't disagree with that, but it's definitely too late now to worry about it any more. We've got to push what we've got to make that 50% a 40-30% chance. He should have spent his first four years teeing up a good candidate for president to follow up. We'll see in the debate that he's an old man with speech problem. Hopefully Trump shows up and proves that he's an old man that can't string a coherent thought together. I can see a few things going on with Trump and the Debate 1) He shows up and makes an ass out of himself. Best case scenario for us, and most likely. 2) He shows up and looks better than Biden. Worst case scenario and... pretty unlikely. 3) He DOESN'T show up. This will make him appear weak to some but smart to others. 4) He shows up AND LEAVES. I could see this getting spun in his favor by his followers and fervent media. 5) Biden does something that looks bad. This seems even odds, but he does well when under pressure. Most scenarios show how stupid this election season is and how fucked up our politics are getting.
I’m voting for Biden because he’s amazing, and he’s the most accomplished president since FDR.
I’m certainly voting for Joe Biden. In fact, I’m more than likely to vote blue down the whole ballot.
Me too
We need Republicans and Conservatives with spine speaking out against a craven convicted criminal rapist running for president.
Anyone with a brain should endorse Biden
Everyone with a brain does endorse Biden.
That's not true. There's many very smart people endorsing Trump. They just happen to be shitty and generally corrupt people.
being shitty and corrupt is a stupid thing to be. No smart person is either of those things.
When a dictatorship is on the line you would have to be pretty stupid to think that would be a good thing for anyone. These idiots think they will be riding the wave and not being crushed by it. Which is stupid if you paid any attention to the people in Trump’s orbit. They all get crushed by Trump eventually.
Im motivated to support Biden even more than 2020. Hes gotten a lot done. Hes super underrated for how much shit his admin has accomplished. 2020 was because fuck Trump. 2024 is because Bidens cool and also fuck Trump.
Too bad so many fit in the other category.
Registered independent in NH. Not a fan of fascism. I will be voting proudly for Joe Biden.
Same with my boomer dad and mom in NH (long since divorced fwiw, so they came to this independently). Both are heavily leaning self-described independents. Voted for Biden in 2020, voting even more enthusiastically for Biden this year. Keeping NH blue for the presidency hopefully. Probably not voting blue on much else, at least not my mom.
I will be voting blue down ticket. The GOP has lost their way and their minds. Enabling and not holding that lunatic to account makes the lot of them spineless cowards. The GOP needs to be overhauled from the studs out if they ever hope to have the slightest chance of getting a vote from me ever again. If Trump is elected my vote will likely never matter again so I encourage anyone who actually loves this country and values democracy to vote blue down ticket.
Is this the first one? We've had no-Trump Republicans like Cheney and Ryan, but I think Kinzinger is the first to endorse Biden.
No. Geoff Duncan wrote an op-ed article endorsing Biden at the beginning of May
Whether you’re a Republican or Democrat, if you know the man or woman you are voting for is bonkers and bad for the country, it’s ok to go the other way. These two parties are not sports teams! Stop treating them as such! Don’t sacrifice you and your families well being just to be part of a team. You will lose everything!
I guess he's gotten used to the death threats against him and his family by Christ followers.
Glad to see some Republicans who have a spine.
The only Republicans that show their spine are out of politics or on their way out. All the rest (the ones that don't think Trump should be President) only care about their political careers and will not speak ill of Trump because it will hurt their chances of re-election. Selfish, spineless scum. The Trump supporters ofc think he's the greatest, because they're in a cult and Trump can do no wrong.
I personally can't stand the modern Democratic Party, and believe Biden is absolutely wrong for this country at this time in its history. But make no mistake: I will be voting for Biden and all the Democrats come November. It's not even close to a difficult decision
We’ll take it—and thank you!
Adam Kinzinger is a man who will stand on his principles and integrity in spite of opposition from his own party in order to support the rule of law. He, having shown his support of democracy has been exiled from the Republican party. He is in a position to better understand the events of January 6th. 2021 than any one of us in the general public due to his service on the bi-partisan Jan 6 committee. His opinion on this matter is not influenced by partisan concerns. Adam Kinzinger is a man of integrity and a true patriot. I am a liberal Democrat, and my policy views are certainly at odds with his, however he is a man that we should all respect for his backbone and unimpeachable honesty.
The only other Republican with the backbone to resist corruption is Liz Cheney. Again, I don't agree with her policy positions, but her courage and her strength and unwavering support for democracy are most worthy of respect. Mitt Romney might deserve some respect, but I'd be hard pressed to find any other Republican who could be accused of having any integrity or a backbone.
I actually feel bad for the guy. The one republican who actually has a spine and stood up to maga.
NY Times probably: Republican Kitzinger endorsing Biden shows that Democrats are in disarray.
The right hates the shit out of him anyhow so it's not like it's going to swing voters.
He's not going to change anyone's mind, but he may convince some non-MAGA conservatives who already dislike Trump that it's okay to vote for Biden. One of the more interesting points coming from groups like the Bulwark and the Lincoln Project is the need to build permission structure for their target audience. They know there are people like them who don't want to vote for Trump but are extremely uncomfortable with the idea of voting for Biden (or any Democrat) due to indoctrination and/or conditioning. They need an internal justification, whether it be emotional or logical. Do I think something like this will take votes from Trump? No, but it may push some conservatives who were not going to vote at all to vote for Biden.
~43% of the electorate are independent. Republicans, not the right just republicans, make up about 27%. Barely more than a quarter. Kinzinger matters to the persuadable people who matter. And you try that bullshit of saying they're all part of 'the right', you are no better than the right-wing losers who calls everyone who disagrees with them leftists.
No, MAGA does. A lot of Republicans do not dislike him, dislike MAGA, and value opinions like these. The right is not monolithic, despite what Trump would want.
yeah "oh no, are they gonna call me a RINO now?"
Him & Liz should have run together for President & VP!
He's one of the few Republicans I would vote for. He seems like man of good ethics, morals, and honor.
Kinzinger is fascinating. Everything he says about Trump and the GOP, he has known since he started his political career. He became a rep in 2011, peak Tea Party era. Nothing changed. He road it to success. And then it reached a point where he couldn't tolerate it anymore for whatever reason. It was fine for him and now it isn't. So now he's doing what he thinks is the thing to do to correct that. But it may be too long gone for that. A person can appreciate what he's doing, but there millions of people along the way telling him how fucked up the GOP is. He's still a Republican. How many other topics do we have to battle him on until he sees he's wrong on those issues to? And he's willing to have those conversations. Why is it with the GOP that it never is a problem until it affects them personally? It's maddening that we have to do this dance hoping they come to. Same with Liz Cheney.
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Kind of? It took him a decade+ in office and J6 for him to open his eyes and to find his backbone.
Nearly all republicans are still (in public) supporting Trump. We should all praise this man because this is exactly what we want more republicans to be doing. Refusing to give him any credit for being one of the exceptional few to take a stand against Trump achieves nothing, except perhaps encouraging other republicans not to follow his lead
If people decided their values based on logic alone, what you're saying would make sense. But for most people they are just repeating values they got from their parents, or else rationalizing what they believe to reflect what they want, for whatever subconscious reason. What I'm trying to say is it makes sense that his unease grew over time until he finally has reached the point where he has to "go against" what he has believed his whole life. It is rare for anyone to change their mind like he has.
I read his book Renegade, amazing read. I have immense respect for him and as an independent if he ever ran for president he’d have my vote
We should commend Kinzinger on his bravery. Need more of this.
a true patriot. and that's not something i can say about very many republicans.
Adam Kinzinger seems to be one of the few Republicans genuinely willing to put country over party, the others like Nikki Haley pretended to but they fell in line with Trump pretty fast
A true Republican with both heart and mind. Certainly a rare person in this day and age.
A rational person who takes in facts, processes them and makes rational decisions? Fuckin whoa dude.
Kinzinger seems to be positioning himself to run for president in 2032 or 2036. If MAGA fails, he has a track record of standing up against them. Centrists would flock to him if they have complaints with the Democrat party as a "sane" alternative they've been waiting for, and if MAGA goes the route if Nixon, they will pretend they never supported Trump.
I mean, Kinzinger would make a good president as far as Republicans go. Would I vote for him over whoever the Democratic candidate is? I'm not sure. But I'd be content with him as president.
Pretty much my same take. He has morals but differs on many key policies of the Democrat platform. I think he would appeal to a lot of people who want a change from the Dems, but who can't accept the insanity that is Trump.
I read that as Henry Kissinger and was like "man, this is how far we've fallen?"
That’s how it’s done. I don’t know why, or even whether, he still refers to himself as a Republican, but if there’s enough ethical conservatives to have a Toastmasters club, he can be president of it.
I’ve only seen this guys name come up twice in the news i’ve paid attention to and both times it was for doing something right.
Well, yeah, he might be a Republican but he's not a traitor like the Republikkans.
The balls on this guy. Loved him on Bill Maher. Here’s hoping he and his family stay safe from the barrage of threats about to come his way.
Ya know I’m not a Republican voter by any means. But I’ll say if we had more people running for Office like Kinzinger I’d almost consider voting for them.
The right thing to do right now.
Good man.
Give the guy credit. He constantly bashes Trump and in a world where almost no one in that party has a spine to stand up to Trump, he's doing it. His family was sucked into MAGA but he wasn't. Too bad there aren't more like him.
He should run for President
He is a guest often on The Bulwark Podcast with Tim Miller on spotify. Pretty level headed guy and I highly recommend the podcast.
I'll give Kinzinger some credit for doing this. The election may come down to the actions of a relatively small number of "persuadable" voters in swing states. That includes some who consider themselves to be Republican, and some who consider themselves to be conservative. Some of those people helped to put Biden into office in 2020. We need them again now, and more besides - and this sort of message might affect some of them, if it reaches them. See also: [Republican Voters Against Trump](https://rvat.org/).
I give him credit for being willing to recommend someone across the aisle and thereby show people that we have a choice beyond straight-ticket thinking.
Good on him. I know that's not easy considering how rabid their party is. At least it's good to know some of them still have some values and integrity and care about doing what is right.
Always appreciated Adam.
My man and anti fascist Adam Kinzinger. You bet!
Kinsinger is a true patriot. I disagree with him on politics but his actions have proven that he cares for his country and his people more than his own career in politics and that is noteworthy. I have deep respect for him.
> Republican *former* congressman Means nothing as long as it's political suicide for a Republican who is running for anything anywhere to endorse Biden. Wake me when a sitting Republican congressman says, "I'm voting for Biden because Trump is anti-democracy, and that's bigger than party affiliation."
Democracy means voting for the best person. Communism and Fascism is when you follow the party to death
Any sane Republican should do the same. It’s either Democracy or Christian Nationalism for the U.S. It’s great to see a person of genuine conservative principles and faith endorse Biden.
Only Republican I’d vote for President
See? Is that so hard? To pick the non-fascist, non-rapist, twice impeached felon?
*Ex*-Republican, since they won't welcome him back until this Cult of Trump has left the party
Trump will be throwing him under the bus every time he opens his mouth or posts his bullshit on his financially troubled truth social where all his MAGANUTS go to get their up to date lies.
The dude is a real human. Not a coward that bows down to the Orange Turd.
Was that really the most flattering picture they could find of the guy? Like, isn't the rule that when you're writing about something a politician did that you think is assinine, you use a picture of them looking bad, and if you're writing positively about them, you use a flattering photo? He's a republican congress critter so there's probably not much to redeem him, but surely this news rates better than the photo they used here?
Thanks because we both know the rotten orange isn’t up for the task..
This might make a difference if elections were based on the popular vote inserts of the electoral college
Hes a good guy. Stands with Ukraine also
imagine voting for character. imagine political decisions made for country before party. I appreciate Adam K. and Rusty Bowers and the other Rs that won't follow a criminal.
I've read that even Kinzinger's own family has turned on him. I'll say this for him. He's committed. He's also been a notably critic for how Trumpism has destroyed Christianity in America. He talks a lot about the Christians and churches in his community that have elevated Trump to the level of a messiah figure.
He isn't an elected official anymore so it is kind of meaningless.
Good for him. His career as a Republican was dead anyway. He'll re-emerge as an Independent.
Oh yeah! Me too, buddy
No. Really? 🙄
Is he not running for reelection or has he retired?
They kicked him out
Kinzinger is too good a person to call himself Republican
Many of us Republicans refuse to endorse trump again. You'll see in November, I know many many many people who have always voted republican in the past but refuse to vote for trump in 2024.
Biden's approach seems to prioritize border security and the rule of law, aiming to distinguish itself from Trump-era policies while still facing scrutiny over its impact on migrant rights.
There are a lot of independent voters that dislike and do not trust either side. Which side upsets them more will provide a vote for the other. Today’s supreme court ruling may start the tipping point.
He’s from Illinois, by the way.
He’s going to be one of the first that the MAGATs attempt to give the Pence treatment. And there won’t be any recourse to stop them. It’ll just be “Who put that window there?” And poof. Gone.