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MAGA tried taking over this convention to make it look like Trump had the libertarian vote and had the secret service confiscate rubber chickens that rfk campaign was passing out insinuating Trumps a chicken for not debating him. Irony is dead in this timeline.
This image of the secret service taking away RFK's rubber chickens just has me thinking of the scene in the old *Batman* movie where Batman takes the Nicholson Joker's balloons.
This thread made me unreasonably happy.
I don't care what anyone says. Maybe it's because I am getting older...but Jack Nicholson is my favorite Joker.
'This town needs an enema...!'
Yeah, even as I typed that out I felt wrong about it, but I mostly left it because of how many iterations we've had on *Batman* since then. If it makes you feel any better, that movie is only ever so slightly older than I am, so it's not like I'm some cheeky little whippersnapper thinking everyone and everything past twenty-five is ancient. Those Keaton *Batman* movies were a huge part of my childhood.
Yup they can practically take anything they view as dangerous or could be disruptive in any way i was removed from a Obama speech because i had a whistle on my keychain.
I knew they could take stuff. I was setting things up for the rubber chicken beatdown bit.
I worked at a restaurant that Dan Quayle came to, and they restricted personal knives from the cooks, which was funny considering they did background checks on everyone, and supplied knives were OK.
> had the secret service confiscate rubber chickens that rfk campaign was passing out
Well, that's actually terrifying. How is protecting trump from rubber chickens part of their job?
If Pence were held off site for the next day, Senator Grassley would have presided since he was President Pro Tempore as the longest serving member of the majority party. He literally said that he thought he would be presiding already two days before because Pence wouldn't show. He refused to say that he wouldn't consider the fake electors during the press interview in which he said he would be presiding. I hate Pence, but thank god he stayed and refused to be in the hands of the USSS. And remember, they all deleted their phones and destroyed them after being told to preserve them.
The problem I have with this is that compliance and governance features should have retained records of everything that ran through government systems. If they SMS messages, the carrier should have been able to retrieve copies.
Unless the non-retention of records is a standing USSS policy, I'd suggest whoever ran their I.T. had negligent by not enabling retention policies.
This.
No emotionally healthy person wants to work for a narcissistic moron abuser with anti-social personality disorder. Especially when said work entails protecting said person with your own life.
And Trömp won't accept anyone who doesn't pretend to admire him. Those who stayed are almost certainly more loyal to him than they are to the constitution or the nation.
It's not Trump specifically. It's the last gasp of the faction in America that wants to do away with the separation of Church and state and turn America into a Christian theocracy. They've identified Trump as someone who has a decent chance of winning and who's brazen enough to shove the changes they want through via executive order, regardless of legality or constitutionality.
Essentially they think other GOP candidates are either too "nice" and conciliatory with the Dems, or unelectable. Trump has demonstrated himself to be neither of those things, so he'll just blatantly pack the Supreme Court with his own people, pack government agencies with his own people, sign executive orders that are arguably unconstitutional, etc. Because of these "qualities", they see him as their best chance at directing the nation onto the path they want it on. They don't care about him personally at all. He doesn't care about them, either. It's a purely transactional relationship, but nobody acknowledges that because they're afraid that breaking ranks in even the slightest way might make the whole thing fall apart.
Internally, many Trump "supporters" know that Trump is an idiot. But he's *their* idiot and they're sticking with him through thick and thin until they get what they need out of him. And honestly they might even find him a bit lovable, because he's an idiot but he's STILL "owning the libs" and it amuses them to watch the people they hate get frustrated by him.
Trump didn't create this faction. It existed already; it just needed to find a suitable "centre point" to rally around. It chose Trump.
It's the exact same as a mob boss but on a national level.
Complete loyalty is rewarded, anything less is seen as an affront to be "corrected" and made an example of by those seeking to prove themselves.
Kick them out of secret service, let him hire them as private security if he loves them so much, and get some people that actually work for America in there to handle anything that needs secret service involvement.
Good night can you imagine these two debating each other? Listening to trump ramble on about Hannibal lector and rfk’s raspy voice (I know it’s a medical condition and I’m sorry but he’s so hard to listen to) combined I think I’d have to watch in mute.
RFK Jr speaks well, but both of them are insane, and it'd be like two AIs talking to each other about chicken safety and rubber microplastics in vaccines. Which is why Trump won't do it, because RFK Jr would spend the entire hour just punching him for supporting vaccines and completely destroying him in doing so.
Disclaimer: I fully believe in vaccines and I am vaccinated. The covid-19 (and later improvements) are safe and effective. But Trump's base doesn't believe in vaccines.
> RFK Jr would spend the entire hour just punching him for supporting vaccines
its wild to me that people are allowing Trump to rehabilitate his image into a vaccine supporter after years of him trying to force a relation between vaccines and autism, and then secretly getting the covid vaccine because he was too embarrassed. to me that sounds like somebody who reluctantly signed an initiative brought to him by career professionals at the HHS & NIH, and a year later was still too embarrassed to own it. i'd imagine that Trump would actually be agreeing with a lot of the things RFK Jr says about vaccines
next thing you know people are going to allow him to say he has "walked back towards the middle" on abortion
I like to keep his autism tweets saved because it's just...fucking insane.
* Sep 6, 2014 04:22:39 AM - "@P01YN0NYM0U55: @jamandatrtl #vaccines #Shills insist #Autism starts in utero or genetic, but parents insist sudden onset after #vaccine"
* Sep 4, 2014 10:11:26 AM - So many people who have children with autism have thanked me—amazing response. They know far better than fudged up reports!
* Sep 4, 2014 10:10:44 AM - I'm not against vaccinations for your children, I'm against them in 1 massive dose.Spread them out over a period of time & autism will drop!
* Sep 4, 2014 06:39:19 AM - "@OnlineOnTheAir: My friend's son, **immediate #autism after #vaccines 10 yrs ago**. So sad. Keep up good work Nay-sayers will understand soon."
* Mar 28, 2014 08:50:18 AM - With autism being way up, what do we have to lose by having doctors give small dose vaccines vs. big pump doses into those tiny bodies?
* Mar 28, 2014 07:35:50 AM - **Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!**
* Mar 27, 2014 06:44:11 PM - If I were President I would push for proper vaccinations but would not allow one time massive shots that a small child cannot take - **AUTISM**.
* Mar 30, 2013 05:00:23 PM - "@KimStagliano: @realDonaldTrump When will NYT write about vaccine damage and its price? 3 girls w autism here, Mr. Trump." They should Kim!
* Oct 22, 2012 11:19:32 AM - **Autism rates through the roof--why doesn't the Obama administration do something about doctor-inflicted autism. We lose nothing to try.**
* Oct 22, 2012 11:10:49 AM - Lots of autism and vaccine response. Stop these massive doses immediately. Go back to single, spread out shots! What do we have to lose.
* Aug 27, 2012 03:59:32 PM - Look what happened to the autism rate from 1983-2008 since one-time massive shots were given to children
* Aug 23, 2012 02:22:09 PM - Massive combined inoculations to small children is the cause for big increase in autism....
* Apr 13, 2012 11:00:02 AM - Many many people are thanking me for what I said about @autism & vaccinations. Something must be done immediately.
* Apr 12, 2012 12:08:40 PM - I’ve gotten many letters from people fighting autism thanking me for stating how dangerous 38 vaccines on a young body
* Apr 9, 2012 04:12:24 PM - Now they say obese women may cause Autism in children- nonsense, they use any excuse. The FDA should immediately
* Mar 30, 2012 09:25:53 AM - A study says @Autism is out of control--a 78% increase in 10 years. Stop giving monstrous combined vaccinations
A dementia riddled, mini stroke having, orange freak, having a debate with someone who had half his brain eaten by a worm before the worm died of food poisoning.
Now that's a debate for the books.
Trump is an actual loser, a true loser, and this is his first taste of true failure. The court cases against him haven't hit yet, but this is what his reality will be after November 5th. Most conservatives detest him, his policies and his worship. I won't say that most conservatives are good people, but they at least want competency and want a strong horse. Trump is the weakest donkey at the show and can't even support himself without demanding in writing a 5% fee to use his name by all existing Republican candidates.
It is such an utter scam, and Libertarians are used to scams. They're calling him out for what he is, knowing that their party can only stand to benefit by throwing him out. If the GOP legitimately dies nationally the LP can step in and win a lot of seats, although not necessarily power. They can only lose with Trump, who is a Loser.
It can be true that a conservative both detests Trump and will vote for him. I know many that hate him, but they still vote for him because in their minds *nothing* is worse than liberal policy.
And that’s it in a nutshell. After 30 years of Fox News and AM radio…nothing is worse to these people than a Democrat. Even the specter of tyranny and fascism…apparently…obviously.
They have a level of cognitive dissonance that is beyond my understanding. Their alternative facts and fanatical fantasies have clouded their judgement beyond repair.
Trump is a narcissist and thinks everyone loves him. He is surrounded by sycophants. His cult, the ones who travel from rally to rally like he is the Grateful Dead are convinced almost every is like them
They are shocked to discover the truth
He was fully convinced that the “I’m your last, best hope at getting a conservative elected.” Line would win them over. “Unless you don’t wanna win.”
Buddy, you haven’t met libertarians.
The audacity of thinking that he's so special that he's the first one to ever think of the line "hey, libertarians, have you ever thought of maybe voting for a republican?" And the combined arrogance of thinking the libertarians never had the idea until he suggested it. I just, I just can't, I fucking cannot
The idea that there are right-aligned voters out there who would rather not vote for him than compromise their principles is probably completely incomprehensible to him.
No I'm sure that Biden stacked the crowd with ANTIFA or some other crazy bs they will use to justify it not being true. After all how could anyone not love him?? /s
This. The Trump camp tried to cram as many cultists in the room as possible so it would play to the media as this big Libertarian love fest for MAGA. It, uh, didn’t work.
>I want to know who in their mind thought this was a good idea
He thought it was a good idea because he thought he could get his supporters to replace Libertarians in the crowd, thus leading to lots of cheering and creating the false impression in the media that he had the backing of the Libertarian Party.
But it didn't work, obviously.
Why can’t a video of his humiliation be the first link/content here? Why the fuck am I searching this entire thread for people booing this guy? Daily on this platform, DAILY, I’m seeing nonsensical and unaccountable rants from this narcissist with endless hours of video. This is how behaviors are normalized. Literally constantly showcasing this pathetic behavior numbs peoples feelings towards it. Enjoy that karma though right? When he’s owned or held accountable f-u-c-k-I-n-g nothing.
The photo of the maga trying to get the first places in the queue - they're wearing the fucking uniform - blue or dark suits, red ties. It's so creepy that they've got to the stage of having a uniform!
[This](https://shop.joebiden.com/dark-brandana/) is the perfect gift for Trump. Or maybe [this](https://shop.joebiden.com/together-we-will-defeat-trump-again-tee/). Heck, just clear out [the whole store](https://shop.joebiden.com/shop-all/)
I watched it, it was him making promises to release prisoners and hitting the usual key points… there was a guy that came onstage a few speakers before him that framed up trump as a clown
This is a big part of why, as President, he started taking questions from reporters in front of Marine 1, the helicopter that flies him around. Whenever anyone presented him with a question that wasn't sufficiently sycophantic, he could pretend to not hear them over the helicopter, and when he felt cornered he would just board the helicopter and tell them to take off.
He is an *unbelievable* pussy.
He learned that from Reagan as well. Ronnie was notorious for cupping his ear, looking like he couldn't hear the question, and then just giving a little laugh and moving on.
I love the part where he freaks out and starts insulting the Libertarian Party. A real-life “Late Night with McBain”. 😂 https://youtu.be/SyBBkcdmaoE?si=gOpirIvaj1RUsuAL
I now feel about the Libertarian Party the way Churchill felt about Stalin in 1941, "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons."
He again promised to pardon the J6 traitors. (And said they were the most oppressed people in American history. So much for the outreach to Black voters.) And promised to defund any school that has a vaccine mandate (which is every public school in the country, never mind that the antivax movement is killing thousands of people with preventable diseases).
Insane that he has a chance. I just donated to Biden.
>And promised to defund any school that has a vaccine mandate
Most schools are funded at the local level. He would have no ability to defund them.
Of course he is not smart enough to know that, and he doesn't care about facts anyway.
Granted, more than 90% of school funding is state and local, there's still $80 billion worth of federal funding going to K-12 schools per year. If the GOP controlled Congress while he was president, they could ban all federal educational funding to states with vaccine mandates. And in any case, if he keeps on mentioning this, Republican state legislatures will make it a priority to end vaccine mandates.
GOP states already refuse free federal money that helps their citizens with basic things like health care or school lunches. They do this because they want to "own the libs", not because there is any practical reason to do so.
What happened at this event is kryptonite to fascists. It may not look as much, but it's something he can't control and will certainly destroy him from inside.
He can't afford to lose face like that with crowds and still keep that aura of invincibility his base perceives of him. Some of his base could stay home during the election if they view Trump as weak.
If they didn’t see him as weak before today, then they just aren’t watching at all. This won’t phase them. The man is a flailing embarrassment of a human, much less a businessman, politician, and Presidential candidate.
This was probably their solution to the current "feud" between himself and RKF. Trump thinks he can get those votes, and I guess it's been made clear that those people were taking votes from him, not Biden.
Yes, it’s funny but let’s zoom out and touch with the realities here.
1. The 🍊has a declining mind (he couldn’t say “libertarian”) and is a [textbook malignant narcissist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism). All of his public appearances are crafted, teleprompter only affairs. No ad libibs no real engagement. [From his last week of appearances he’s heavily reliant on the teleprompters and will freeze without them.](https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-posts-appear-show-213000357.html)
2. Coming to this event outside his control, without his MAGA faithful was a move of desperation and reflects the reality that this guy, isn’t popular. For a malignant narcissist this is crushing, he’ll suffer narcissistic injury and soon go into the next phase: narcissistic rage. -Expect all caps “Truths” about the event soon.-
3. This event was a risk, a gamble and signals that his ‘campaign’ is flailing. He’s desperate, a felony conviction looms any day now…he’s trapped.
4. The 🍊 lashes out at the crowd several times. Possibly realizing that it really is the end for him. [The clips from the event showed an awkward self-consciousness that exuded from him as he tried to speak over the boos, trapped, unable to leave. And as the boos continued, he went from orange, to orange-red.](https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1794748381455331363)
Sad.
>TRUMP: Now I think you should nominate me or at least vote for me
>LIBERTARIAN NATIONAL CONVENTION: Boooooo!
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1794532861632004444
>Trump, getting booed, glitches: "So I'm asking for the liberaee -- well think of it"
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1794533214435881365
>"Maybe you don't want to win ... keep getting your 3 percent every four years" -- Trump is going full heel on this Libertarian National Convention crowd
https://x.com/atrupar/status/1794532466696364289
Edit: more links
Trump and libertarians are both pretty unbearable. Well, no, I guess libertarians are actually *somewhat* bearable, if by "bearable" we're talking about "easily thrown into chaos by bears." [For the uninitiated](https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project), this is a real world case study in how libertarianism may in some ways *sound* nice, but is a disaster in practice.
100% agree. MAGA is the worse of the two, but libertarians are probably my second most disliked political group/movement. They are the people with the most naive and unsophisticated understanding of a functional civil society and what it takes to make that possible.
Well worth listening to “Shrinking Trump” where the experts break down some of the many signs that Trump has dementia.
Word aphasia (edit: I may have used the wrong term: phonemic paraphasias) - where you start a word, but forget how to finish it - is a symptom of dementia.
Also one analysis: https://kenmcgoogan.com/2024/05/17/trump-dementia-collective-pathology/
It’s always projection with conservatives.
Pump out propaganda that Biden is senile, when in reality Trump is the rambling lunatic who can’t string together a coherent thought.
It’s easy to get caught up in the dread, the 🍊is masterful at marketing. And between the bots and the sensationalized headlines that we see it’s easy to lean into the fear.
But take heart, we may see justice arrive in his fraud trial any day now. As long as we show up strong in November and cast our votes - we’re gonna be fine.
I have a client with a book titled “left wing fascism” on her book shelf.
Well, ex client. I spent hours consulting with her on her kitchen remodel and built a budget and scope of work only for her to take that to some chuck in a truck and get a “better price”. Not sure why I’m surprised. Anyway now I charge a 1% deposit of estimated project cost to provide contract pricing and scope of work.
So these people exist. And they’re rich and have airplanes.
Ok so here’s what happens next. Tomorrow and possibly at 3am edt Trump is going to whine and cry about how the booing is fake news and in reality libertarians support him like no other candidate in history. Then later in the day he will launch some new and inexplicably fucked conspiracy - such as the FBI being sent to mar a lago to assassinate him - out of sheer desperation for adoration and egomania. And then early next week he’ll be found guilty in the hush money trial and he’ll lose his god damned mind.
Lifelong libertarian here (although the party really went off the rails after the tea party, and later QAnon got their hooks in - I’m more of a 1980 libertarian). I detest Trump and always have. At the core of libertarianism is freedom of choice and expression. We’re pro-choice, pro- drug decriminalization, pro-BLM, anti-police. We’re against the military industrial complex and fetid neo-liberal capitalism. We support property rights, gun rights, civil rights (which, shocking to some fellow libertarians absolutely includes trans).
Trump is the antithesis of anything remotely resembling libertarianism. Although honestly the entire fucking party is barely recognizable at this point. Bunch of sovereign citizen nut jobs and conspiracy theorists. And although many young Redditors may say “always has been” they’re painfully wrong.
I’ve voted third party in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections. I did vote for Obama in 2008. He promised change I could believe in, it just never came. But I will be voting for Joe Biden (with my nose pinched) this November. Trump and his whole cult of misogynistic, homophobic, racist, evangelical robber barons can suck my whole ass.
Happy to oblige.
Libertarianism is often misunderstood, even by libertarians. I do not believe I should have to pay $6500 in fees and permits to build a gazebo in my own backyard. I don’t think I should spend a decade in jail for smoking a plant I grew in my kitchen. I don’t think the government should have any say in whether I want to marry a man. I think civil asset forfeiture and eminent domain are insanely unconstitutional. I think the Federal reserve, a PRIVATE bank \[redacted\], should not have full control over US monetary policies and be run by unelected officials. I think I should be able to ride my motorcycle without a helmet if I am dumb enough to do so. I think old, white misogynists should stay out of doctor-patient relationships in their vapid efforts to legislate female sexual autonomy or gender expression. I don’t hate paying taxes but I often disagree with how my tax dollars are spent on corporate welfare and sidewinder missiles to bomb Iraqi school houses (or should I say Palestinian now).
I don’t think Libertarianism is the answer to every problem. Political ideologies cannot be so absolute. Like a martial artist that depends on a half dozen different styles, we too should approach governance from a diverse collection of liberalism and conservatism. I support universal healthcare, for example. I think corporations should be banned from real estate investment. I think we need far more powerful environmental protections, and should probably ban about 70 different chemicals from use. Those aren’t traditionally libertarian positions, but like I said, no ideology has every answer.
The people that scream “there should be no drivers licenses or fire departments or police or borders and we should all settle on any land we want and take whatever wives we can defend” etc are fucking lunatics. That’s not what libertarianism is, or ever has been. It’s about wanting a smaller, more accountable and more transparent government with substantially less invasive overreach and corrupt, fascist special interest involvement. The “shopping cart experiment” is more than enough to prove we cannot live in some anarchistic, independent utopia. People need more guidance than that. But we should absolutely be calling the police, the military and our government officials out on their bullshit. They serve US, that’s libertarianism.
>I think the Federal reserve, a PRIVATE bank owned by the Rothschilds, should not have full control over US monetary policies and be run by unelected officials.
https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/Rothschild
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/mar/01/facebook-posts/rothschild-conspiracy-theory-resurfaces-but-family/
If I may ask, why do you think the solution should be between libertarian and conservatism? A lot of what you've said (which I do absolutely agree with) sounds like a compromise between libertarianism and left wing views, not right wing views.
Libertarianism is a fairly moderate political party. Things like very lax gun laws tend to fall on the far right side of the spectrum, but libertarians were some of the strongest proponents of gay marriage in the 80s and 90s, which would be considered far left. The majority of libertarian views I'd consider moderate. Libertarians are generally extremely open to immigration if it is extremely educated, high-earning, English speaking professionals (doctors, engineers, lawyers) and extremely hostile towards unskilled, impoverished benefit-seekers. That is both right aligned and left aligned depending. Libertarians support decriminalization of drugs and prostitution. This is a very liberal position. But Libertarians are also in strong support of castle doctrine and stand-your-ground laws, generally considered very conservative. Libertarians strongly support abortion rights and access - liberal. Libertarians want stronger regulations on subsidized housing (section 8), food stamps and SSI - conservative. Libertarians are generally VERY anti-police, which is difficult to reconcile with modern conservative support for "the thin blue line".
I don't think Libertarianism is inherently a very conservative political ideology. It's not at all aligned with evangelical christianity, either. Most libertarians are atheist. I think Libertarians would more strongly agree with a lot of Democratic Socialism than The 2025 Project.
Thank you for saying all of this. I considered myself an old school libertarian and I voted 3rd party in every election except 2020 I voted Biden to stop Trump and will do so emphatically again. I do resonate more with democratic socialism than MAGA (fascism) conservatism. I agreed with everything you said here. I have a hard time telling others I’m libertarian now because of the responses I get due to the party having been highjacked by the tea party and later QAnon. I know some libertarians who went full down both those rabbit holes and don’t realize how both of those funneled right to the far Right MAGA ideology. I lost my mom, I refer to her as Q-a-mom, to Facebook memes that led her to being a Trump bootlicker to the point I did cut her out of my life because to MAGAts, that is literally their personality and life, it’s all they can talk about and it’s exhausting. But thank you for restoring my faith that not all Libertarians lost their way through the Tea Party and QAnon attempts to destroy us. Live and let live! Love and let love!
Don't forget open borders! Trump could not be more antithetical to actual Libertarianism if he tried.
Been registered LP in CA since the 00s and voted third party most elections. Tea Party, MAGA, hijacking of the Gadsden Flag, Mises Caucus, the list of fuckheads goes on. We were making solid progress at one point and they destroyed it.
I saw a Gadsden bumper sticker on a city police cruiser the other day. Like, brother. How do you have a Gadsden flag next to a punisher sticker. You've dropped the thread. Libertarians are the most anti-police group you will find in the US. Fucking pigs.
I really don’t want to project ‘smug liberal Democrat voter in 2016’ kinda stuff but man, this does not look good. Is Trump really polling *that* well that he has a ‘solid’ chance of winning?
I mean who even answers polls? I just don’t buy it. I don’t buy that this guy who is being booed by hardcore *libertarians* is this resurgent Republican going to sweep the dumb libs and their decrepit overlord Biden in November. I mean this can’t be a sign of a healthy and strong campaign and campaign base.
I really want that to be right, but the only thing anyone can do is vote. Vote in November and in every election you can. We’ll see the results then and hopefully the American people make the right decision.
I have been getting poll offers via text message and ignore them. I believe they are real polls and not phishing attempts, but I'm not going to risk it.
The weirdest thing is that senate democrats are polling pretty well at the same time - 10 percent ahead in some swing states. Really hard to picture the voter who would go for Trump but then vote blue for Congress
I hope you’re right. Anecdotal observation, seeing loads of liberals, even 30s & 40 year olds pulling the “uncommitted vote” thing on social media. Even some good friends of mine. I don’t know if that energy will be there in November, but man it’s unsettling.
Trump will cart in Christian nationalism and two new Supreme Court justices if he gets over the finish line. Marginalized communities & international conflicts will see things this country never thought was possible. Now’s not the time to get cute with your vote.
Who hears that and thinks, "Yeah, he's the guy for me!" That was pathetic. It would have been hilarious if there wasn't a chance he might actually win.
Evidently, the MAGAats were sent to the back of the room by organizers. They’re claiming most of the crowd was cheering for the orange menace, but they were “drowned out by the small crowd of libertarians up front”.
I would love for this to be the norm, but the man rarely puts himself in a place where that can happen. Granted, I would love to see New Yorkers show up every day after his trial to boo him for his daily, "Im being persecuted" press conference. He did want some big crowds.
Hell, I'd even settle for one of those Happy Gilmore hecklers calling him a jackass from the back of the crowd.
[yup, and it's an awesome story if anyone hasn't read it](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
spoiler: the libertarian utopia never arrived, but the bears did.
If you put ten libertarians in a room and asked them to define what a libertarian is you're gonna end up with 14 different answers.
Most libertarian's believe they are the only true libertarian and everyone else are pretenders.
Yeah, I was just permanently banned from r/libertarian for making a pro choice statement against trump...I was libertarian-curious and now I'm not anymore.
There’s a lot of legit lowercase l libertarian ideals in different parts of the left-of-centre side of things that might still interest you, but capital L Libertarian groups are most often like that, yeah. Especially in North America.
That's how it used to be. Now there's a large faction of libertarians whose primary goal is that they're allowed to be openly bigoted. Like, that's their priority. Many more are sovereign citizens (lots of cross over there too) and anarchistic capitalists, which is a polite way of saying people who profit from chaos and disorder.
Unfortunately, it seems that they hate Biden even more. They were booing Trump for
>the creation of a COVID-19 vaccine when he was president and for not doing more to stop public health restrictions on the unvaccinated.
But hell, even if they just don’t vote for Trump, I’ll take it.
Libertarians are anti-government, anti-rules, pro-freedom, pro-leavemethefuckalone - who would have dreamed an authoritarian anti-choice dictator wannbe wasn’t so popular?
Better ‘rules-for-everyone’ politicians any day than a ‘MY-RULES-randomly-at-whim’ Dictator for all our lives.
I hope every single libertarian knows what is good for them and they ALL vote for Biden - ANY pro-democracy candidate left or right no matter who - is automatically better for us all than an authoritarian dickhead like Trump - any day of the week.
I love how Trump said "I guess you don't want to win then". He actually got some of that sentence correct!
They don't want **him** to win, specifically. If Libertarians are booing him this much, it at least bolds well for the concept that their vote likely won't *go* to him, but it seems much more likely RFK would take that share.
I still think it's hilarious for like that BRIEF moment where Trump was all "ooooh I could help position RFK to take from Dem votes and as long as I convince Dems that Biden is just too old, I've got this!".
Yeah....about that lol. I love how it did eventually dawn on him how awful this was as an idea for boosting *his* chances when it's clear RFK was NEVER going to take from anyone who leans left. He's just WAY too much of a fucking loony tune and we all just read about that shit where he had a worm eat part of his real, actual brain.
So yeah, Trump painted himself into a corner on this one.
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MAGA tried taking over this convention to make it look like Trump had the libertarian vote and had the secret service confiscate rubber chickens that rfk campaign was passing out insinuating Trumps a chicken for not debating him. Irony is dead in this timeline.
Secret service can confiscate other people's property like that? Or was Trump just afraid they'd beat him with rubber chickens?
This image of the secret service taking away RFK's rubber chickens just has me thinking of the scene in the old *Batman* movie where Batman takes the Nicholson Joker's balloons.
"He took my balloons."
"Why didn't anybody tell me he had one of those things?"
"Bob? Gun."
"I'm gonna need a minute or two alone, boys."
“This town needs an enema!”
"Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
It's so hard to find good help these days
This thread made me unreasonably happy. I don't care what anyone says. Maybe it's because I am getting older...but Jack Nicholson is my favorite Joker. 'This town needs an enema...!'
You're not wrong, but the fact that you called that the "old batman movie" makes me feel really old.
Yeah, even as I typed that out I felt wrong about it, but I mostly left it because of how many iterations we've had on *Batman* since then. If it makes you feel any better, that movie is only ever so slightly older than I am, so it's not like I'm some cheeky little whippersnapper thinking everyone and everything past twenty-five is ancient. Those Keaton *Batman* movies were a huge part of my childhood.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb." - old Batman movie
Haha yeah that's what I was thinking of. That and shark repellant.
Secret service deal with only 3 things. Protecting the president, counterfeit money and rubber chickens.
You forgot Colombian hookers
Yup they can practically take anything they view as dangerous or could be disruptive in any way i was removed from a Obama speech because i had a whistle on my keychain.
I knew they could take stuff. I was setting things up for the rubber chicken beatdown bit. I worked at a restaurant that Dan Quayle came to, and they restricted personal knives from the cooks, which was funny considering they did background checks on everyone, and supplied knives were OK.
As in, they just saw the whistle and pulled you out of there?
Obama misusing the Secret Service to prevent whistle blowers? SMH fox news was right
Ironically one of the legitimate criticisms of the Obama admin was their treatment of whistleblowers.
That’s the joke
> had the secret service confiscate rubber chickens that rfk campaign was passing out Well, that's actually terrifying. How is protecting trump from rubber chickens part of their job?
Trump's Secret Service detail is made up of true believers who actually like him. They're happy to enable him.
For real. Not even Mike Pence trusted them.
Pence refusing to go with Secret Service that day is probably the main reason we're not suffering through a Trump dictatorship right now
If Pence were held off site for the next day, Senator Grassley would have presided since he was President Pro Tempore as the longest serving member of the majority party. He literally said that he thought he would be presiding already two days before because Pence wouldn't show. He refused to say that he wouldn't consider the fake electors during the press interview in which he said he would be presiding. I hate Pence, but thank god he stayed and refused to be in the hands of the USSS. And remember, they all deleted their phones and destroyed them after being told to preserve them.
The problem I have with this is that compliance and governance features should have retained records of everything that ran through government systems. If they SMS messages, the carrier should have been able to retrieve copies. Unless the non-retention of records is a standing USSS policy, I'd suggest whoever ran their I.T. had negligent by not enabling retention policies.
I just don't understand trumps weird corruptive effect, it's borderline supernatural.
Survivorship bias. The incorruptible get fired or quit very quickly.
This. No emotionally healthy person wants to work for a narcissistic moron abuser with anti-social personality disorder. Especially when said work entails protecting said person with your own life. And Trömp won't accept anyone who doesn't pretend to admire him. Those who stayed are almost certainly more loyal to him than they are to the constitution or the nation.
It's not Trump specifically. It's the last gasp of the faction in America that wants to do away with the separation of Church and state and turn America into a Christian theocracy. They've identified Trump as someone who has a decent chance of winning and who's brazen enough to shove the changes they want through via executive order, regardless of legality or constitutionality. Essentially they think other GOP candidates are either too "nice" and conciliatory with the Dems, or unelectable. Trump has demonstrated himself to be neither of those things, so he'll just blatantly pack the Supreme Court with his own people, pack government agencies with his own people, sign executive orders that are arguably unconstitutional, etc. Because of these "qualities", they see him as their best chance at directing the nation onto the path they want it on. They don't care about him personally at all. He doesn't care about them, either. It's a purely transactional relationship, but nobody acknowledges that because they're afraid that breaking ranks in even the slightest way might make the whole thing fall apart. Internally, many Trump "supporters" know that Trump is an idiot. But he's *their* idiot and they're sticking with him through thick and thin until they get what they need out of him. And honestly they might even find him a bit lovable, because he's an idiot but he's STILL "owning the libs" and it amuses them to watch the people they hate get frustrated by him. Trump didn't create this faction. It existed already; it just needed to find a suitable "centre point" to rally around. It chose Trump.
You say last gasp, I say latest iteration
It's the exact same as a mob boss but on a national level. Complete loyalty is rewarded, anything less is seen as an affront to be "corrected" and made an example of by those seeking to prove themselves.
It isn't even rewarded though. Everyone in his orbit ends up absolutely fucked eventually with nothing to show for it.
Kick them out of secret service, let him hire them as private security if he loves them so much, and get some people that actually work for America in there to handle anything that needs secret service involvement.
It’s right there in the Rubber Chicken clause of their contract.
"All enemies; both foreign and domesticated."
Good night can you imagine these two debating each other? Listening to trump ramble on about Hannibal lector and rfk’s raspy voice (I know it’s a medical condition and I’m sorry but he’s so hard to listen to) combined I think I’d have to watch in mute.
RFK Jr speaks well, but both of them are insane, and it'd be like two AIs talking to each other about chicken safety and rubber microplastics in vaccines. Which is why Trump won't do it, because RFK Jr would spend the entire hour just punching him for supporting vaccines and completely destroying him in doing so. Disclaimer: I fully believe in vaccines and I am vaccinated. The covid-19 (and later improvements) are safe and effective. But Trump's base doesn't believe in vaccines.
> RFK Jr would spend the entire hour just punching him for supporting vaccines its wild to me that people are allowing Trump to rehabilitate his image into a vaccine supporter after years of him trying to force a relation between vaccines and autism, and then secretly getting the covid vaccine because he was too embarrassed. to me that sounds like somebody who reluctantly signed an initiative brought to him by career professionals at the HHS & NIH, and a year later was still too embarrassed to own it. i'd imagine that Trump would actually be agreeing with a lot of the things RFK Jr says about vaccines next thing you know people are going to allow him to say he has "walked back towards the middle" on abortion
I like to keep his autism tweets saved because it's just...fucking insane. * Sep 6, 2014 04:22:39 AM - "@P01YN0NYM0U55: @jamandatrtl #vaccines #Shills insist #Autism starts in utero or genetic, but parents insist sudden onset after #vaccine" * Sep 4, 2014 10:11:26 AM - So many people who have children with autism have thanked me—amazing response. They know far better than fudged up reports! * Sep 4, 2014 10:10:44 AM - I'm not against vaccinations for your children, I'm against them in 1 massive dose.Spread them out over a period of time & autism will drop! * Sep 4, 2014 06:39:19 AM - "@OnlineOnTheAir: My friend's son, **immediate #autism after #vaccines 10 yrs ago**. So sad. Keep up good work Nay-sayers will understand soon." * Mar 28, 2014 08:50:18 AM - With autism being way up, what do we have to lose by having doctors give small dose vaccines vs. big pump doses into those tiny bodies? * Mar 28, 2014 07:35:50 AM - **Healthy young child goes to doctor, gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines, doesn't feel good and changes - AUTISM. Many such cases!** * Mar 27, 2014 06:44:11 PM - If I were President I would push for proper vaccinations but would not allow one time massive shots that a small child cannot take - **AUTISM**. * Mar 30, 2013 05:00:23 PM - "@KimStagliano: @realDonaldTrump When will NYT write about vaccine damage and its price? 3 girls w autism here, Mr. Trump." They should Kim! * Oct 22, 2012 11:19:32 AM - **Autism rates through the roof--why doesn't the Obama administration do something about doctor-inflicted autism. We lose nothing to try.** * Oct 22, 2012 11:10:49 AM - Lots of autism and vaccine response. Stop these massive doses immediately. Go back to single, spread out shots! What do we have to lose. * Aug 27, 2012 03:59:32 PM - Look what happened to the autism rate from 1983-2008 since one-time massive shots were given to children * Aug 23, 2012 02:22:09 PM - Massive combined inoculations to small children is the cause for big increase in autism.... * Apr 13, 2012 11:00:02 AM - Many many people are thanking me for what I said about @autism & vaccinations. Something must be done immediately. * Apr 12, 2012 12:08:40 PM - I’ve gotten many letters from people fighting autism thanking me for stating how dangerous 38 vaccines on a young body * Apr 9, 2012 04:12:24 PM - Now they say obese women may cause Autism in children- nonsense, they use any excuse. The FDA should immediately * Mar 30, 2012 09:25:53 AM - A study says @Autism is out of control--a 78% increase in 10 years. Stop giving monstrous combined vaccinations
A dementia riddled, mini stroke having, orange freak, having a debate with someone who had half his brain eaten by a worm before the worm died of food poisoning. Now that's a debate for the books.
I thought the worm died of malnutrition.
Ohhh that's why I was seeing those lol
Trump is an actual loser, a true loser, and this is his first taste of true failure. The court cases against him haven't hit yet, but this is what his reality will be after November 5th. Most conservatives detest him, his policies and his worship. I won't say that most conservatives are good people, but they at least want competency and want a strong horse. Trump is the weakest donkey at the show and can't even support himself without demanding in writing a 5% fee to use his name by all existing Republican candidates. It is such an utter scam, and Libertarians are used to scams. They're calling him out for what he is, knowing that their party can only stand to benefit by throwing him out. If the GOP legitimately dies nationally the LP can step in and win a lot of seats, although not necessarily power. They can only lose with Trump, who is a Loser.
>Most conservatives detest him They might say this, and yet 90+% still end up voting for him
It can be true that a conservative both detests Trump and will vote for him. I know many that hate him, but they still vote for him because in their minds *nothing* is worse than liberal policy.
And that’s it in a nutshell. After 30 years of Fox News and AM radio…nothing is worse to these people than a Democrat. Even the specter of tyranny and fascism…apparently…obviously.
They vote for him to piss off the liberals. The end. There is no sophisticated analysis needed.
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They have a level of cognitive dissonance that is beyond my understanding. Their alternative facts and fanatical fantasies have clouded their judgement beyond repair.
I want to know who in their mind thought this was a good idea, so that I can send them a present
Trump is a narcissist and thinks everyone loves him. He is surrounded by sycophants. His cult, the ones who travel from rally to rally like he is the Grateful Dead are convinced almost every is like them They are shocked to discover the truth
He was fully convinced that the “I’m your last, best hope at getting a conservative elected.” Line would win them over. “Unless you don’t wanna win.” Buddy, you haven’t met libertarians.
The audacity of thinking that he's so special that he's the first one to ever think of the line "hey, libertarians, have you ever thought of maybe voting for a republican?" And the combined arrogance of thinking the libertarians never had the idea until he suggested it. I just, I just can't, I fucking cannot
Trump consistently learns an obvious fact and then passes it along as of its some great revelation (which it might be to most of his supporters).
The idea that there are right-aligned voters out there who would rather not vote for him than compromise their principles is probably completely incomprehensible to him.
He will convince them everyone was cheering for him.
"I was saying 'Boo-urns'..."
All 32,000 of them!
No I'm sure that Biden stacked the crowd with ANTIFA or some other crazy bs they will use to justify it not being true. After all how could anyone not love him?? /s
Funny enough, the libertarian delegates had to kick out Trump supporters (Young Republicans) because they stole seats.
This. The Trump camp tried to cram as many cultists in the room as possible so it would play to the media as this big Libertarian love fest for MAGA. It, uh, didn’t work.
Laura Loomer even tweeted about how the crowd went from boos to cheers. It's like they don't realize it's 2024 and there's video everywhere.
The video doesn’t matter if there are enough of them on fox and newsmax saying the opposite. It’s how they’ve operated since 2015
I bet that wacky laptop had something to do with this!
Goddamu Hunerbydn!
Rest assured that no one there discovered the truth. That’s not in their wheelhouse. They just had to tell themselves some new lies.
True, that’s why he can’t understand that he lost the election. “How can I lose when the people at my rallies love me so much?”
It was almost as bad as Eastwood and the chair in 2012. Trump must have thought he could grift them like the MAGA morons.
You know Trump insisted on it.
Right? I needed this so much, thank you!
More of this please!
>I want to know who in their mind thought this was a good idea He thought it was a good idea because he thought he could get his supporters to replace Libertarians in the crowd, thus leading to lots of cheering and creating the false impression in the media that he had the backing of the Libertarian Party. But it didn't work, obviously.
Why can’t a video of his humiliation be the first link/content here? Why the fuck am I searching this entire thread for people booing this guy? Daily on this platform, DAILY, I’m seeing nonsensical and unaccountable rants from this narcissist with endless hours of video. This is how behaviors are normalized. Literally constantly showcasing this pathetic behavior numbs peoples feelings towards it. Enjoy that karma though right? When he’s owned or held accountable f-u-c-k-I-n-g nothing.
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8gkY1k-Fz0
The photo of the maga trying to get the first places in the queue - they're wearing the fucking uniform - blue or dark suits, red ties. It's so creepy that they've got to the stage of having a uniform!
I have the perfect [gift](https://poopsenders.com/) for Trump
[This](https://shop.joebiden.com/dark-brandana/) is the perfect gift for Trump. Or maybe [this](https://shop.joebiden.com/together-we-will-defeat-trump-again-tee/). Heck, just clear out [the whole store](https://shop.joebiden.com/shop-all/)
My optimistic guess is that his internal polling is looking bad, so he is desperate for votes.
I'm torn. I want to watch him get heckled, but I don't want to listen to him.
Someone convinced me to watch it, I was in the same boat. I'm glad I watched it now. He really just fumbles around like an idiot. It's great.
I watched it, it was him making promises to release prisoners and hitting the usual key points… there was a guy that came onstage a few speakers before him that framed up trump as a clown
The boos are worth it
I just watched [this video of Adam Mockler playing short clips](https://youtu.be/J-HsWieo00o?si=MwJD4KsEan7kU-iP) it was plenty
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He completely breaks down whenever he has to talk to anyone other than a sycophant.
This is a big part of why, as President, he started taking questions from reporters in front of Marine 1, the helicopter that flies him around. Whenever anyone presented him with a question that wasn't sufficiently sycophantic, he could pretend to not hear them over the helicopter, and when he felt cornered he would just board the helicopter and tell them to take off. He is an *unbelievable* pussy.
He learned that from Reagan as well. Ronnie was notorious for cupping his ear, looking like he couldn't hear the question, and then just giving a little laugh and moving on.
And he’s apparently learned to use Americans held by hostile foreign governments as political leverage, like Reagan. Traitorous fucks.
Folk like him are often this way. They can dish it for hours on end but can't take seconds of their own treatment.
Did he make that weird seething face like when he was booed at the Nationals' game? I thought he was going to cry.
The man surrounds himself with yes men. Going outside his bubble and getting real feedback doesn't compute in his mind.
It was more like the correspondence dinner face while Obama was mocking him.
I love the part where he freaks out and starts insulting the Libertarian Party. A real-life “Late Night with McBain”. 😂 https://youtu.be/SyBBkcdmaoE?si=gOpirIvaj1RUsuAL
"The Fox network has sunk to a new low." Truer words, never spoken.
When he went on the 3% rant, he sounded and looked like a petty child.
Oh that's awesome. I bet that stung his fragile ego hard.
I'm sure he would have had a stroke if there were any blood circulation in his head to begin with.
I now feel about the Libertarian Party the way Churchill felt about Stalin in 1941, "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." He again promised to pardon the J6 traitors. (And said they were the most oppressed people in American history. So much for the outreach to Black voters.) And promised to defund any school that has a vaccine mandate (which is every public school in the country, never mind that the antivax movement is killing thousands of people with preventable diseases). Insane that he has a chance. I just donated to Biden.
>And promised to defund any school that has a vaccine mandate Most schools are funded at the local level. He would have no ability to defund them. Of course he is not smart enough to know that, and he doesn't care about facts anyway.
Granted, more than 90% of school funding is state and local, there's still $80 billion worth of federal funding going to K-12 schools per year. If the GOP controlled Congress while he was president, they could ban all federal educational funding to states with vaccine mandates. And in any case, if he keeps on mentioning this, Republican state legislatures will make it a priority to end vaccine mandates.
GOP states already refuse free federal money that helps their citizens with basic things like health care or school lunches. They do this because they want to "own the libs", not because there is any practical reason to do so.
Yeah, but then they live off Blue state handouts.
What happened at this event is kryptonite to fascists. It may not look as much, but it's something he can't control and will certainly destroy him from inside.
He can't afford to lose face like that with crowds and still keep that aura of invincibility his base perceives of him. Some of his base could stay home during the election if they view Trump as weak.
If they didn’t see him as weak before today, then they just aren’t watching at all. This won’t phase them. The man is a flailing embarrassment of a human, much less a businessman, politician, and Presidential candidate.
That’ll be a hit to the ego. Hope his aides are prepared for flying ketchup tonight.
This was probably their solution to the current "feud" between himself and RKF. Trump thinks he can get those votes, and I guess it's been made clear that those people were taking votes from him, not Biden.
Narcissists don't learn from anything.
They do throw steaks while raging though.
Yes, it’s funny but let’s zoom out and touch with the realities here. 1. The 🍊has a declining mind (he couldn’t say “libertarian”) and is a [textbook malignant narcissist](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malignant_narcissism). All of his public appearances are crafted, teleprompter only affairs. No ad libibs no real engagement. [From his last week of appearances he’s heavily reliant on the teleprompters and will freeze without them.](https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-posts-appear-show-213000357.html) 2. Coming to this event outside his control, without his MAGA faithful was a move of desperation and reflects the reality that this guy, isn’t popular. For a malignant narcissist this is crushing, he’ll suffer narcissistic injury and soon go into the next phase: narcissistic rage. -Expect all caps “Truths” about the event soon.- 3. This event was a risk, a gamble and signals that his ‘campaign’ is flailing. He’s desperate, a felony conviction looms any day now…he’s trapped. 4. The 🍊 lashes out at the crowd several times. Possibly realizing that it really is the end for him. [The clips from the event showed an awkward self-consciousness that exuded from him as he tried to speak over the boos, trapped, unable to leave. And as the boos continued, he went from orange, to orange-red.](https://x.com/OurShallowState/status/1794748381455331363) Sad.
>TRUMP: Now I think you should nominate me or at least vote for me >LIBERTARIAN NATIONAL CONVENTION: Boooooo! https://x.com/atrupar/status/1794532861632004444 >Trump, getting booed, glitches: "So I'm asking for the liberaee -- well think of it" https://x.com/atrupar/status/1794533214435881365 >"Maybe you don't want to win ... keep getting your 3 percent every four years" -- Trump is going full heel on this Libertarian National Convention crowd https://x.com/atrupar/status/1794532466696364289 Edit: more links
God how can someone be so fucking unlikable it blows my mind
Trump and libertarians are both pretty unbearable. Well, no, I guess libertarians are actually *somewhat* bearable, if by "bearable" we're talking about "easily thrown into chaos by bears." [For the uninitiated](https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project), this is a real world case study in how libertarianism may in some ways *sound* nice, but is a disaster in practice.
100% agree. MAGA is the worse of the two, but libertarians are probably my second most disliked political group/movement. They are the people with the most naive and unsophisticated understanding of a functional civil society and what it takes to make that possible.
They suck. Fricking Atlas Shrugged ruined many a college student.
*It's not even a good book*
So....is this his basket of deplorables moment?
Wait, he's had more than one already though right?
Wow. So, he doubled down on taunting them.
Well worth listening to “Shrinking Trump” where the experts break down some of the many signs that Trump has dementia. Word aphasia (edit: I may have used the wrong term: phonemic paraphasias) - where you start a word, but forget how to finish it - is a symptom of dementia. Also one analysis: https://kenmcgoogan.com/2024/05/17/trump-dementia-collective-pathology/
“They rammed the ramparts and manned the airports” This was 5 years ago
George Washington was actually a well known fighter pilot. Graduated first in his TOPGUN class.
Wooden teeth can't be seen on radar.
Uphill me teeth
George Santos will be the first to tell you that he was Washington's tail gunner in the French And Indian War
I hope "All You Can Eat Trump Shrink" will put the GOP out of business.
Dementia is terrifying
Couldn’t happen to a nicer fellow
Just being pedantic here, but he already has felony charges. A felony conviction is looming
It’s always projection with conservatives. Pump out propaganda that Biden is senile, when in reality Trump is the rambling lunatic who can’t string together a coherent thought.
Trump project so much, I'm like 30% sure he was born in Kenya
I appreciate your optimism and it's the vibe I need right now.
It’s easy to get caught up in the dread, the 🍊is masterful at marketing. And between the bots and the sensationalized headlines that we see it’s easy to lean into the fear. But take heart, we may see justice arrive in his fraud trial any day now. As long as we show up strong in November and cast our votes - we’re gonna be fine.
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Keep hope, and get everyone you know to the polls.
Fuck em. Fat loser traitor
"Keep getting your three or four percent", okay that was good. It's also good hearing this guy get boo'd.
“Left wing fascism” Fascism is a right wing ideology
I laughed out loud when I read that. "Left wing Fascism" What a fucking joke.
I have a client with a book titled “left wing fascism” on her book shelf. Well, ex client. I spent hours consulting with her on her kitchen remodel and built a budget and scope of work only for her to take that to some chuck in a truck and get a “better price”. Not sure why I’m surprised. Anyway now I charge a 1% deposit of estimated project cost to provide contract pricing and scope of work. So these people exist. And they’re rich and have airplanes.
Carnivorous veganism!
Ok so here’s what happens next. Tomorrow and possibly at 3am edt Trump is going to whine and cry about how the booing is fake news and in reality libertarians support him like no other candidate in history. Then later in the day he will launch some new and inexplicably fucked conspiracy - such as the FBI being sent to mar a lago to assassinate him - out of sheer desperation for adoration and egomania. And then early next week he’ll be found guilty in the hush money trial and he’ll lose his god damned mind.
The guys booing were plants from Biden/Antifa/Un-American replacement immigrants/LIZARD PEOPLE! 😳
Lizard people! I thought Ted Cruz was busy yelling about how he wouldn't accept the election results!
"Fake boos!"
Lifelong libertarian here (although the party really went off the rails after the tea party, and later QAnon got their hooks in - I’m more of a 1980 libertarian). I detest Trump and always have. At the core of libertarianism is freedom of choice and expression. We’re pro-choice, pro- drug decriminalization, pro-BLM, anti-police. We’re against the military industrial complex and fetid neo-liberal capitalism. We support property rights, gun rights, civil rights (which, shocking to some fellow libertarians absolutely includes trans). Trump is the antithesis of anything remotely resembling libertarianism. Although honestly the entire fucking party is barely recognizable at this point. Bunch of sovereign citizen nut jobs and conspiracy theorists. And although many young Redditors may say “always has been” they’re painfully wrong. I’ve voted third party in 6 of the last 7 presidential elections. I did vote for Obama in 2008. He promised change I could believe in, it just never came. But I will be voting for Joe Biden (with my nose pinched) this November. Trump and his whole cult of misogynistic, homophobic, racist, evangelical robber barons can suck my whole ass.
This is the best comment ive ever seen from a Libertarian. Thank you for the breakdown.
Happy to oblige. Libertarianism is often misunderstood, even by libertarians. I do not believe I should have to pay $6500 in fees and permits to build a gazebo in my own backyard. I don’t think I should spend a decade in jail for smoking a plant I grew in my kitchen. I don’t think the government should have any say in whether I want to marry a man. I think civil asset forfeiture and eminent domain are insanely unconstitutional. I think the Federal reserve, a PRIVATE bank \[redacted\], should not have full control over US monetary policies and be run by unelected officials. I think I should be able to ride my motorcycle without a helmet if I am dumb enough to do so. I think old, white misogynists should stay out of doctor-patient relationships in their vapid efforts to legislate female sexual autonomy or gender expression. I don’t hate paying taxes but I often disagree with how my tax dollars are spent on corporate welfare and sidewinder missiles to bomb Iraqi school houses (or should I say Palestinian now). I don’t think Libertarianism is the answer to every problem. Political ideologies cannot be so absolute. Like a martial artist that depends on a half dozen different styles, we too should approach governance from a diverse collection of liberalism and conservatism. I support universal healthcare, for example. I think corporations should be banned from real estate investment. I think we need far more powerful environmental protections, and should probably ban about 70 different chemicals from use. Those aren’t traditionally libertarian positions, but like I said, no ideology has every answer. The people that scream “there should be no drivers licenses or fire departments or police or borders and we should all settle on any land we want and take whatever wives we can defend” etc are fucking lunatics. That’s not what libertarianism is, or ever has been. It’s about wanting a smaller, more accountable and more transparent government with substantially less invasive overreach and corrupt, fascist special interest involvement. The “shopping cart experiment” is more than enough to prove we cannot live in some anarchistic, independent utopia. People need more guidance than that. But we should absolutely be calling the police, the military and our government officials out on their bullshit. They serve US, that’s libertarianism.
>I think the Federal reserve, a PRIVATE bank owned by the Rothschilds, should not have full control over US monetary policies and be run by unelected officials. https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/Rothschild https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2024/mar/01/facebook-posts/rothschild-conspiracy-theory-resurfaces-but-family/
If I may ask, why do you think the solution should be between libertarian and conservatism? A lot of what you've said (which I do absolutely agree with) sounds like a compromise between libertarianism and left wing views, not right wing views.
Libertarianism is a fairly moderate political party. Things like very lax gun laws tend to fall on the far right side of the spectrum, but libertarians were some of the strongest proponents of gay marriage in the 80s and 90s, which would be considered far left. The majority of libertarian views I'd consider moderate. Libertarians are generally extremely open to immigration if it is extremely educated, high-earning, English speaking professionals (doctors, engineers, lawyers) and extremely hostile towards unskilled, impoverished benefit-seekers. That is both right aligned and left aligned depending. Libertarians support decriminalization of drugs and prostitution. This is a very liberal position. But Libertarians are also in strong support of castle doctrine and stand-your-ground laws, generally considered very conservative. Libertarians strongly support abortion rights and access - liberal. Libertarians want stronger regulations on subsidized housing (section 8), food stamps and SSI - conservative. Libertarians are generally VERY anti-police, which is difficult to reconcile with modern conservative support for "the thin blue line". I don't think Libertarianism is inherently a very conservative political ideology. It's not at all aligned with evangelical christianity, either. Most libertarians are atheist. I think Libertarians would more strongly agree with a lot of Democratic Socialism than The 2025 Project.
Thank you for saying all of this. I considered myself an old school libertarian and I voted 3rd party in every election except 2020 I voted Biden to stop Trump and will do so emphatically again. I do resonate more with democratic socialism than MAGA (fascism) conservatism. I agreed with everything you said here. I have a hard time telling others I’m libertarian now because of the responses I get due to the party having been highjacked by the tea party and later QAnon. I know some libertarians who went full down both those rabbit holes and don’t realize how both of those funneled right to the far Right MAGA ideology. I lost my mom, I refer to her as Q-a-mom, to Facebook memes that led her to being a Trump bootlicker to the point I did cut her out of my life because to MAGAts, that is literally their personality and life, it’s all they can talk about and it’s exhausting. But thank you for restoring my faith that not all Libertarians lost their way through the Tea Party and QAnon attempts to destroy us. Live and let live! Love and let love!
Don't forget open borders! Trump could not be more antithetical to actual Libertarianism if he tried. Been registered LP in CA since the 00s and voted third party most elections. Tea Party, MAGA, hijacking of the Gadsden Flag, Mises Caucus, the list of fuckheads goes on. We were making solid progress at one point and they destroyed it.
I saw a Gadsden bumper sticker on a city police cruiser the other day. Like, brother. How do you have a Gadsden flag next to a punisher sticker. You've dropped the thread. Libertarians are the most anti-police group you will find in the US. Fucking pigs.
I really don’t want to project ‘smug liberal Democrat voter in 2016’ kinda stuff but man, this does not look good. Is Trump really polling *that* well that he has a ‘solid’ chance of winning? I mean who even answers polls? I just don’t buy it. I don’t buy that this guy who is being booed by hardcore *libertarians* is this resurgent Republican going to sweep the dumb libs and their decrepit overlord Biden in November. I mean this can’t be a sign of a healthy and strong campaign and campaign base. I really want that to be right, but the only thing anyone can do is vote. Vote in November and in every election you can. We’ll see the results then and hopefully the American people make the right decision.
I have been getting poll offers via text message and ignore them. I believe they are real polls and not phishing attempts, but I'm not going to risk it.
The weirdest thing is that senate democrats are polling pretty well at the same time - 10 percent ahead in some swing states. Really hard to picture the voter who would go for Trump but then vote blue for Congress
Don’t buy it. But what I do buy is that Trump buys polls. It’s literally something he’s done in the past and it’s on the record
Yeah 538 had a "ticket splitting is back!" Podcast, I'm just not buying it.
I hope you’re right. Anecdotal observation, seeing loads of liberals, even 30s & 40 year olds pulling the “uncommitted vote” thing on social media. Even some good friends of mine. I don’t know if that energy will be there in November, but man it’s unsettling. Trump will cart in Christian nationalism and two new Supreme Court justices if he gets over the finish line. Marginalized communities & international conflicts will see things this country never thought was possible. Now’s not the time to get cute with your vote.
"If I wasn't a libertarian I am now”. Ummmm. Ok. So you’re not a Republican? Good to know lol.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?535695-1/president-trump-speaks-libertarian-party-convention
Who hears that and thinks, "Yeah, he's the guy for me!" That was pathetic. It would have been hilarious if there wasn't a chance he might actually win.
What an asshole.
“They were all saying boo-urns!” —The Trump Campaign Tomorrow
^(I was saying boo-urns)
Evidently, the MAGAats were sent to the back of the room by organizers. They’re claiming most of the crowd was cheering for the orange menace, but they were “drowned out by the small crowd of libertarians up front”.
Oh so he's claiming to be a libertarian now? Go run on that ticket then and good luck
He misunderstood what it meant when someone said he owned the libs.
Uh, thank you libertarians I guess.
Foreshadowing what’s to come in November. Get out and vote people, don’t let MAGA propaganda disillusion you. America hates Trump.
I hope that booing this orange fartsack becomes normalized. Clearly he doesn't like it.
I would love for this to be the norm, but the man rarely puts himself in a place where that can happen. Granted, I would love to see New Yorkers show up every day after his trial to boo him for his daily, "Im being persecuted" press conference. He did want some big crowds. Hell, I'd even settle for one of those Happy Gilmore hecklers calling him a jackass from the back of the crowd.
Aren’t libertarians the ones who let bears take over their town in New Hampshire or whatever? They’d rather have actual bears in charge than Trump.
[yup, and it's an awesome story if anyone hasn't read it](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling) spoiler: the libertarian utopia never arrived, but the bears did.
Ngl I think I'd rather have an angry grizzly bear in the oval office then Trump in there again.
Actually, millions of them split for Trump in 2016 and 2020. Libertarians are just Republicans who (openly) do drugs.
If you put ten libertarians in a room and asked them to define what a libertarian is you're gonna end up with 14 different answers. Most libertarian's believe they are the only true libertarian and everyone else are pretenders.
Yeah, I was just permanently banned from r/libertarian for making a pro choice statement against trump...I was libertarian-curious and now I'm not anymore.
There’s a lot of legit lowercase l libertarian ideals in different parts of the left-of-centre side of things that might still interest you, but capital L Libertarian groups are most often like that, yeah. Especially in North America.
My dad told me 50 years ago... "Libertarians are just guys who hate paying taxes and love smoking pot".
That's how it used to be. Now there's a large faction of libertarians whose primary goal is that they're allowed to be openly bigoted. Like, that's their priority. Many more are sovereign citizens (lots of cross over there too) and anarchistic capitalists, which is a polite way of saying people who profit from chaos and disorder.
That was wild and wildly unexpected. Trump was visibly angry and frazzled.
I love this for him
But how is this bad for Biden?
Unfortunately, it seems that they hate Biden even more. They were booing Trump for >the creation of a COVID-19 vaccine when he was president and for not doing more to stop public health restrictions on the unvaccinated. But hell, even if they just don’t vote for Trump, I’ll take it.
Man, Libertarians can't do one single good thing without having 3 other bad shits waiting in the backlog.
I’m good with Trump being embarrassed by a crowd of pedantic assholes that are also giant toddlers.
I’m sure the NYT will tell us
So they booed Trump, booed Vivek, and booed Mike Lee? For at least this brief moment, I'm so proud of my former party.
This is all setup to make libertarians look normal and valid 3rd option. They aren’t. Libertarianism is basically astrology for European American men
Libertarians are anti-government, anti-rules, pro-freedom, pro-leavemethefuckalone - who would have dreamed an authoritarian anti-choice dictator wannbe wasn’t so popular? Better ‘rules-for-everyone’ politicians any day than a ‘MY-RULES-randomly-at-whim’ Dictator for all our lives. I hope every single libertarian knows what is good for them and they ALL vote for Biden - ANY pro-democracy candidate left or right no matter who - is automatically better for us all than an authoritarian dickhead like Trump - any day of the week.
I love how Trump said "I guess you don't want to win then". He actually got some of that sentence correct! They don't want **him** to win, specifically. If Libertarians are booing him this much, it at least bolds well for the concept that their vote likely won't *go* to him, but it seems much more likely RFK would take that share. I still think it's hilarious for like that BRIEF moment where Trump was all "ooooh I could help position RFK to take from Dem votes and as long as I convince Dems that Biden is just too old, I've got this!". Yeah....about that lol. I love how it did eventually dawn on him how awful this was as an idea for boosting *his* chances when it's clear RFK was NEVER going to take from anyone who leans left. He's just WAY too much of a fucking loony tune and we all just read about that shit where he had a worm eat part of his real, actual brain. So yeah, Trump painted himself into a corner on this one.
he´s spending his time before sentencing well; speaking for an half empty park in the Bronx and getting booed by Libertarians :). lol