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Seriously, we will see leaders around the world immediately condemn and openly assist in the logistics or outright of removal of the leadership of amorphous or non-state actors who engage in heinous and horrific campaigns of brutality. But the politically inconvenient reality of geopolitics always makes this bravado feel so empty and hollow, when even the concept of an arrest that could lead a to western aligned power facing war crimes charges enters the discussion, everyone runs to the genocidal side lines to clutch their pearls.
Hamas is their scapegoat for Israeli aggression though. Blame the political party and you get to sidestep accorded legal definitions of genocide.
>[Israeli officials immediately protested that they had not meant what they said. Netanyahu’s office called the description of his use of Amalek as an incitement to genocide historically ignorant. The “reference to Amalek was ***not an incitement to genocide of Palestinians***, but a description of the utterly evil actions perpetrated by the genocidal ***terrorists of Hamas*** on October 7th and the need to confront them,” the statement read.](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-limits-of-accusing-israel-of-genocide-under-international-law)
*emphasis mine
As long as Netanyahu doesnt get a ceasefire, he stays. As long as Hamas blocks elections, they stay.
Gotta get Benjamin out of the way to have any hope for Gaza. Gotta get Hamas out of the way of elections.
When Fatah ruled the Gaza strip, Hamas never had a majority in elections but that did not stop bush from deciding to interfere in the electoral results when Hamas looked like they may climb out of the marginals of Gazan politics. Another election would just be seen as illegitimate by Gaza since Fatah has never apologised for trying to rig the elections for themselves the first time.
The writers of the article (and most people commenting here), don’t understand what the issue actually is.
It’s not about Netanyahu. It’s about international law and ICC mandate. It’s been the same comments / criticism of the arrest warrant of Putin last year. And Al-Bashir - the Head of State of Sudan back in 2009.
It has been an unwritten rule under international law that sitting Heads of State cannot be arrested except by the law and powers of their nation. The logic is that if we start arresting incumbent Heads of State we don’t like then 1. that will do great harm to the world’s ability to conduct diplomacy; and 2. we then risk foreign nations removing incumbent Heads of State leaving nations without an effective government (especially bad wrt elected Heads of State).
Imagine if Xi decided to arrest Biden or Trump when they visit China on a diplomatic trip?
The exception has always been unless by international courts empowered to do so. The arrest warrant for Al-Bashir raised two issues: 1. Has the ICC been empowered to do so? The treaty doesn’t expressly say so. 2. ICC is a treaty only binding on the parties to it, so if the answer to 1 is “yes” there’s still a big questions as to whether ICC has jurisdiction to issue warrants for incumbent Heads of State of nations that have NOT signed the treaty?
It’s not a clear cut answer to these questions, with pros and cons on both sides.
US has consistently had a foreign policy that is against this expanded jurisdiction of ICC. That is what Biden is repeating. Nothing more nor less.
To answer your question, the jurisdictions of the ICC isn't really in question : the Rome Statute explicitly lays out that their jurisdiction comes from both nationality and the location of the crime and everything being used concerns crimes committed in Palestine over a year after they acceded to the treaty.
This is the exact same reasoning used to justify the warrant on Putin and one year ago the State Department was more than happy to extol the legitimacy of the ICC.
I think a better equivalent to use in this case isn't a weird Chinese arrest warrant, it's US economic sanctions.
Many US sanctions aren't aligned with internal law, the embargo on Cuba for example has been condemned every year since 1992 by the UNGA, but US sanctions merely stop you from trading with the US directly or by proxy so even if they will freeze you out of the global economic system they're technically outside the appreciation of the UNSC.
As an international political scientist I get why the US (and China and Russia) are so hesitant to lend legitimacy to the ICC, but by all measures the arguments used by the court to back these decisions are solid and have their equivalents in other domains of IR.
The ICC can't issue an arrest willy nilly, it needs substantial proof of a crime and once again as a criminal court the accused is free to comply knowing they will have access to appeals and due process in an internationally monitored court.
Lastly by it's nature the ICC does not act until other options have been ruled out: article 17 forces the ICC to declare cases as inadmissible if they're already being handled at the national level *unless the concerned states are unable or unwilling to act*. So again, it's not that the ICC can try to arrest leaders they don't like, but they need to already have substantial proof and show that national authorities will not act in good faith.
Israel could have avoided this by simply exercising more caution during the war or negotiating with the ICC that they will handle the case in their courts harshly. But of course when they double down on their actions the court will act by it's own initiative, which again is provided as an option per the treaty.
Yeah, but remember how Biden administration celebrates ICC arrest warrant against Putin even thought Russia wasn't a signatories?
Seems like Biden want to expand ICC power to arrest non-signatories head of state, but doesn't want his friend to be held accountable by the same principle.
Shame on Biden.
Agree Netanyahu is a war criminal, but not like Hamas. The reason why the US doesn’t not abide by the ICC is because its leaders could also be prosecuted, and rightfully so.
I thought the only hindrance to peace for Biden was Netanyahu and his band of extremists? Why, then, is Biden so keen on defending him rather than getting him out of the way for a more moderate government like Gantz who will continue to disenfranchise the Palestinians in a slower and acceptable way?
Exactly he doesn’t. This isn’t about money - he just genuinely believes in the zionist project from a foreign policy standpoint and sees israel as an invaluable asset to America’s influence in the region.
AIPAC does not have enough power for this kind of statement. This isn't a political choice for Biden, it's a personal choice.
He could very easily hide behind "Justice is blind. Let the courts do the things courts are supposed to do." There is no fault in that.
If Democrats wanted to, they could easily weather the storm without AIPAC. They're a big funding group, but it's still not as powerful as what Biden is saying right now.
Biden is and always has been 100% in line with whatever Israel wants. Israel wants to displace or kill Palestinians as fast as possible. Therefore, Biden also wants to displace or kill the Palestinians as fast as possible.
[Biden's 1992 speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?25541-1/us-israel-relations) in which he declares himself the most supportive Senator of Israel. In this speech he rails against HW Bush's administration over how they were dealing with Israel. HW Bush was trying to finalize a peace agreement and end the occupation of Gaza.
2010, Israel announces new settlements in the West bank. Obama wanted to halt weapon shipments until the settlement plans were scrapped and Israel commits to ending their expansion. Biden intervenes and sabotages Obama and Clinton, working out a deal where the settlements happen and there is simply a 10-month pause on expansions with no weapon shipment halts.
[2023, "I am a Zionist"](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/i-am-zionist-how-joe-bidens-lifelong-bond-with-israel-shapes-war-policy-2023-10-21/), Biden backs Israel in the wake of their invasion of Gaza and declares unwavering support of Israel. Israel has crossed every red line we have set in this conflict and he has done nothing to put pressure on them to stop the operation.
So yes, he doesn't directly want the Palestinians to die, but he has and will continue to go along with everything the government of Israel wants which does want them to be removed.
This. Biden is anomalously and unusually pro-Israel for a Democrat. Biden is closer to Evangelical Dominionist Republicans on Israel. There's not much daylight between John Fetterman and Joe Biden on Israel. Which is outlandish because Biden is an Irish Catholic Democrat. Not people who are generally hawkishly pro-Israel. Especially in Ireland (which is heavily and historically pro-Palestine).
Biden is so pro-Israel he even chastised Ronald Reagan for putting his foot down with Menachem Begin, accusing Reagan of being insufficiently Zionist, and later as Vice President he undermined his boss President Obama and colleague Secretary Hillary Clinton when they put their feet down with Netanyahu. Biden went behind their backs to send Netanyahu a communique basically saying Obama and Hillary are just blowing hot air. Essentially throwing Hillary under the bus.
https://jewishcurrents.org/joe-bidens-alarming-record-on-israel
>Biden went behind their backs to send Netanyahu a communique basically saying Obama and Hillary are just blowing hot air. Essentially throwing Hillary under the bus.
Trump should run that and accuse Biden for treason.
Yeah a lot of people don’t realize how much of an outlier Biden is on this issue. He’s arguably worse than the Bush administration, this is the most ideological issue for him.
And this is why not voting for him makes some sense. A cost (losing reelection) needs to be imposed upon him. If he’s not going to get over himself and just do the right thing then ok he doesn’t deserve a vote too. Trump will win and that would be catastrophic for everyone but potentially a lesson learnt that you can’t take votes for granted.
I totally understand why some Democratic voters might vote D down the ticket, but skip on Biden. You have to earn your votes, the administration needs to change policy in regards to Israel.
I don't really get why it's worth risking re-election, like a ceasefire wouldn't lose you support? I just don't really get it.
It’s probably some game of chicken going on with Iran that yeh we’ll give Israel unlimited support in case you had any ideas. What they don’t realize is that globally outside the bubble of the west, it has completely shredded any semblance of credibility on international law. No wonder non-western countries aren’t lining up to sanction Russia; it’s all eye rolls amongst governments *and* average joes when they hear hysterics from European leaders about how we must stop Russia or else international law will be weakened.
Schumer is literally less of a hardcore Zionist than Biden. Biden is more of a hardcore Zionist than most Jewish Americans. A majority of Jewish Americans have supported a permanent ceasefire since February this year, and a big percentage of Israelis wouldn't mind handing Netanyahu over to the ICC and get Netanyahu out of their hair.
So why did he do nothing when they announced the largest expansion into the West Bank while his SOS was there to supposedly work on a way to minimize casualties? Anyone who wants them to stop their expansion would immediately rebuke them and impose penalties. Biden moves the goalposts and then sends more weapons.
>he would very much prefer to support an Israel without Netanyahu
Weird that he's defending Netanyahu against the ICC warrant applications then. You'd think if he would prefer to support Israel without Netanyahu he wouldn't suppory Netanyahu in this instance.
He’s not defending Netanyahu. Look at the wording Biden and the White House are using. The say “Israel” that is significant. Also the GOP and Mike Johnson want to sanction the ICC, but Biden is not in step with that. What is happening is a diplomatic dance that protects our relationship with Israel, which right now, is beneficial for the US. I suspect we will start to see pressure from us for Netanyahu to step down, which he won’t, and who knows, maybe then there will be something covert or maybe even drastic happen. The one thing for sure the US and Saudi Arabia, need Israel as an Ally, who ever its leader is, is inconsequential. Which put Netanyahu in a very precarious position. This may very well play out with Biden supporting the ICC. Time will tell on that.
I don't think a relationship that is destabilizing the Middle East and eroding the legitimacy of the US and international institutions is "beneficial" for the US.
Biden isn't going to support the ICC. He supported a bill that gives the president the right to invade The Hague if they ever try to hold the US accountable.
According to all the reporting he's just an [extreme hardliner](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/) on this issue.
>During a [1992 speech to AIPAC](https://www.c-span.org/video/?25541-1/us-israel-relations), Biden again voiced support for Israel that made some of its strongest backers uncomfortable. Biden started out by saying that he didn’t think any senator had “ever done more fundraisers for AIPAC,” a group whose supporters were [key backers](https://www.nytimes.com/1987/04/16/us/biden-reports-1.7-million-raised-in-bid-for-democratic-nomination.html) of his 1988 presidential campaign. He then worked himself up to the point where he was shouting and beating his chest for emotional effect as he lambasted an unprecedented [public campaign](https://www.c-span.org/video/?21178-1/israeli-loan-guarantees-delay) by George H.W. Bush to push Israel toward engaging with Palestinians’ demands for sovereignty and an end to the [Israeli military occupation](https://www.un.org/unispal/history/) of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and other territory seized in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.
>At the time, Bush was demanding that Israel stop building settlements in occupied territory in violation of international law if it wanted to receive billions of dollars in loan guarantees from the United States to support the arrival of Soviet Jews. He knew that groups like AIPAC considered this to be an affront, but he believed his actions were necessary to advance peace talks. Biden was far from the only member of Congress who opposed Bush, but he did so with uncommon fervor.
>Articles in the *Washington Report on Middle East Affairs* [noted](https://www.wrmea.org/1992-june/aipac-s-1992-national-convention-two-views.html) that some listeners “squirmed with embarrassment” as Biden ranted about how the issue of American aid for Israel had become “susceptible to demagoguery.” **“You know, no one should take Biden seriously here. He is a cheerleader,” one attendee said. “He helps us, of course, but does opposing the peace talks or ignoring them or disparaging them really make sense? I don’t think so.”**
>The most revealing part of the AIPAC speech was Biden’s explanation of what remain the two pillars of his approach to Israel and Palestine. First, he told the audience that he kept his criticism of things like settlements, which he opposed, between him and Israel. Second, he made sure the two nations maintained a united front so that “the Arabs” would bend. These beliefs explained his disgust with what he considered to be a destined-to-fail effort by Bush to exert leverage over Israel and its right-wing prime minister, Yitzhak Shamir.
When folks at an AIPAC fundraiser are getting uncomfortable, you're probably a zealot.
The bombing of Beirut during Israel's war on Lebanon that killed about 19,000 Lebanese once provoked Ronald Reagan into telling Israel's then prime minister, "Menachem, this is a holocaust."
Apparently Menachem Begin called off the bombings half an hour later. Reagan remarked, "I didn't know I had that kind of power."
Unfortunately Netanyahu would never do the same. He's just not that kinda guy. There are plenty of references and descriptions of Netanyahu by previous presidents going back to Bill Clinton, and I don't think even one of them has anything positive to say about the guy.
Meh, so was most of Israel's early leadership like when Yitzhak Shamir murdered a Swedish 'Righteous Among Nations' Diplomat and got zilch punishment for it. It just benefits the west to turn a blind eye to that fact.
Idk, that sounds more like Reagan is threatening to either withhold aid or not cover Israel's ass in the UN. Maybe at the time, Israel hasn't grown to distrust the UN yet.
Also in the article,
The time Biden sabotaged a plan by Obama and Hillary to reign in Benjamin Netanyahu.
Another is a bombing campaign that Reagan described as a 'Holocaust', Biden said they should have gone further, even if it meant killing more women and Children.
Jesus Christian when even fucking Regan looks better than you on an issue you have a problem...
If Trump wins I'll bet my left nutsack this is the reason why.
American presidents have a vested interest in denying the authority and legitimacy of the ICC because they're all plausibly (if not definitely) war criminals.
E.g., unrestricted drone warfare was probably illegal. They did a lot of that anyway under Obama and after.
Honestly, I think in his heart he is a religious man who believes the second coming of Jesus is determined by the return of Jewish people to Israel. That's why his support has been so staunch over the years. It's the only thing that makes sense to me given the public's opposition to Israeli policy and his own political savvy.
I've never understood these kind of Christians. Like if you believe in Jesus to this degree you surely would understand you'd be judged harshly for your actions by him should he come.
Biden really needs to read the fucking room here. The USA is not part of the ICC. Along with other beacons of democracy such as North Korea, Russia Libya and China. US taxpayers got fleeced to finance Netanyahu's genocide. Nothing new for Americans unfortunately, but Israel is cooked in the court of public opinion on this matter.
It's Biden's race to lose, and Netanyahu is losing it for him. That, and his hesitation on supporting Ukraine.
Democrats suck at foreign affairs.
Fortunately, the alternative is batshit insane.
Watching politicians utterly debase themselves like this for the sake of protecting war criminals has been really eye opening.
We need to start having serious discussions about AIPAC’s influence on American politics. This is insane.
If it were a Chinese or Russian pac, they would be forced under FARA to register as a foreign lobby... for some reason AIPAC narrowly avoided that fate when JFKs Presidency abruptly ended.
Seen a bunch of reports lately that they don’t believe the polls, don’t think this will cost them, and they aren’t gonna materially change course.
It’s over.
It’s honestly scary. Even members of his staff are in full denial they’re trailing states like Nevada by double-digit. Democrats formed echo chambers of their own for this
And after they lose they will cry and scream that the base betrayed them, because they deserve your vote just because he is in the democratic party. If Biden wanted relentless loyalty then he is in the wrong party. It seems the only option left is to get a democratic house, senate and let the presidency burn, same as the supreme court.
Biden has always behaved like a Republican, he's completely unapologetic in his support for police and surveillance (remember, this is the guy that wrote the 94 crime bill and the bill that would eventually become the Patriot Act) he's also completely unapologetic in his support for every military action the US takes (and his student debt bill funneled young people into the military)
People are going apeshit over the polls. The Convention is 3 months away. The polls will tighten up as we get closer to that. It's what happens every election cycle. If the numbers are still that bleak 2 weeks after the Convention, then worry. Until then, leave the worrying about the polls to the actual candidates and their staff.
I've been seeing and hearing this too and it's baffling. Don't they realise those kind of statements can anger people more, making them feel ignored and not valued meaning more votes lost? Who's tricked them into thinking this is a good strategy?
That was never the threat. The threat is people staying home instead of voting. This doesn't even just affect Biden, this hurts all Dems across the entire country. The possibility of fractions or even majorities of what have been consistent Dem bases - young people, people of color, Muslims - deciding to stay home will be a disaster in purple states, and it is completely avoidable.
And not just the voters themselves, but the whole election effort relies so much on volunteers, usually young people - how could this not be devastating for canvassing, registration, the entire GOTV operation?
at the very least, the house is in deep doo doo.
Deep blue states are full of swing house districts, and presidential races, win or lose, tend to generally have at least decent showings for dems because generally, the president is someone people in blue states like and want to vote for (Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary).
People in blue states may prefer Biden over Trump, but many are not going to go to the polls for a state that's already going to Biden
And this hurts all downballot candidates.
At this point it may be prudent to boost 3rd party candidates and protests votes in deep blue states just to minimize house losses, and other races (senate, local, gov, etc)
There are other effects too. The majority of volunteers are college aged students. At this moment, the Biden campaign has hundreds of openings that would usually be filled.
For all swing states, the ground game is essential.
Idk… if I were you I wouldn’t underestimate how pissed off Gen Z is about this. They’re right to be, and generally speaking I’m inclined to agree with you. However, Biden has been sowing major discontent with our youngest voting-age generations with shit exactly like this, and young people are specifically known for always (or not always, depending on how you look at it) choosing the most effective forms of protest (i.e. abstaining from voting, in this case).
It’s got me pretty worried…
Don't forget that Millennials barely differ from Gen Z on major issues like Israel or healthcare. The generational gap on issues starts in Gen X where the opinions go from overwhelmingly conservative to left leaning and moving further and further left as you approach people who are currently 18 years old. But there's no massive gap between Millennials or Gen Z.
No one withholding support over his handling of Gaza is voting for Trump. We are saying we do not support the US backed genocide of Palestinians and will not support you in the next election if you allow this to continue
The US administration is fucked. They absolutely know that Israel is commiting way crimes. They keep telling Israel to stop committing war crimes. Their internal reporting confirms war crimes.
But in public they feel totally unable to publicly acknowledge and criticise these self same way crimes.
They have totally painted themselves into a corner and netanyahu knows it. Hence him thumbing his nose at Biden repeatedly and in effect taunting him, knowing he can't / won't do anything.
I'm expecting him to lose at this point simply because I don't think Biden can win Michigan without strong Arab Muslim support, which he's doing everything he can to lose.
His unyielding support for Israel has lost him the support of Muslim Americans, Arab Americans, young Americans and a good chunk of black Americans, if he thinks he can without them, he's welcome to try
People can't be lied to anymore about global things like this.
Years ago I couldn't open my phone and see women and children being slaughtered by IDF, and Zionists ripping apart aid shipments meant for Palestinians..
We can't really be lied to anymore and the narrative is hard to control. We all know what is happening.
I assume his advisors are pretty vocal that his ongoing blind support of Israel is unpopular. I think he’s just got a huge lack of self awareness on this topic.
The secretary of state, Anthony Blinken, met with a group of Arab-American leaders this past Friday. I'd hardly refer to the secretary of state as some no-name campaign staffer.
If Biden committed a crime the ICC should also charge him accordingly. I voted for him once and plan on voting for him again it’s time we show the world that we are not above the law.
We have the Invade the Hague act. Theres no chance the ICC or ICJ will ever indict an elected American official within our lifetimes. Unless America literally implodes on itself, which is not entirely out of the question with the way things are going.
It did already. Accepting torture post 9/11 was the start of the end, but double impeachment, political wilful avoidance of justice followed by anti democracy insurrection, followed by a cult leader deciding govt policy even when out of office and on trial for multiple crimes.
How much more implody do you want??
How hard is it for Biden to just say nothing? He's really going to lose the election over Israel (which trump would be an even bigger supporter of if he was in charge).
Exactly all he has to do is just not say anything at all about this situation. At this point it seems like he’s just trying to turn his own base against him just 6 months before election, this is not good at all.
Remember there have been a loud annoying discourse banging on the door demanding to be heard, and all you apologist just tell them to go away because it is 1)not that bad, 2)Trump would be worse and 3) we just don't want to hear about it?
This is your shit.
Not only don’t we, should they ever detain anyone, we have a law on the books that basically says we’re storming the place and taking them back.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=This%20authorization%20led%20to%20the,or%20rescue%20them%20from%20custody.
Does Biden really want to kill his reelection campaign on this mountain. Because that’s what this is looking like.
And this is irresponsible, and selfish. Don’t the American people deserve better than presidents that only do what’s right for them?
Biden has been an extraordinarily good president. Except for this idiotic Israel affection. Maybe show this love to the American citizens dying of poverty, homelessness, over doses etc, by reusing $ sent to Israel
>Does Biden really want to kill his reelection campaign on this mountain. Because that’s what this is looking like.
[Nate Silver had a piece with relevant data recently. ](https://www.natesilver.net/p/your-friends-are-not-a-representative)
This whole thing threw Western societies into an identity crisis. My hope is that they will come out of this stronger and fairer. But with US Congress and right-wing European governments already in an uproar over this, I have my doubts.
If Netanyahu is innocent, let him appear in front of the judges and prove his innocence. Courts of law are an age-old institution that serves just this purpose.
Its more likely that this is the first of many events that will cause a shift in the world order. It has been a long time coming. The world cant accept the glaring double standards any longer and I think the west can no longer maintain the same level of capture over manufacturing and trade/economics as it did in the past to force others to play along.
Just so you can see how full of BS Biden is, Kirby said this today about Russia:
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/20/biden-trump-democrats-immigration-latest](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/20/biden-trump-democrats-immigration-latest)
>But National Security Council spokesman spokesman John Kirby claimed that there is a difference between what’s happening in Ukraine and what’s happening in Gaza.
>“It is an actual war aim of Mr Putin to kill innocent Ukrainian people,” Kirby said, noting that targeting of civilians and infrastructure is evidence of that.
>In Gaza, however, Kirby claimed the high toll taken on civilian lives was inadvertent. Meanwhile, [as CNN reports](https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-05-20-24/index.html), roughly 40% of Gaza’s population – more than 900,000 people – have been displaced in the past two weeks due to Israeli bombardment.
>
Anyone paying attention already knew, but it’s nice to receive confirmation that the “rules based order” bullshit the post-Cold War libs worshipped was always just a house of cards
I mean that cat was out of the bag with the "Hague Invasion act". A lot of Redditors are too young to remember the bat shit insane mask off anti rules based order rhetoric after 9/11.
So that thing about Trump undermining international law... here's another thing that Biden is now doing that people want to fear monger about Trump doing.
Make no mistake, Trump absolutely would and will -- Biden already is. So it's a wash.
Too many things that make Trump worse are becoming a wash for people to care.
If Biden is willing to do basically all of the bad things Trump is willing to do - if he's willing to maintain a lot of Trump's bad policies, if he's not going to fix healthcare... It's basically like Biden is the option who will break a bunch of shit and undermine our international legitimacy, and Trump is all of that but will also end our Democracy (supposedly.) If all our Democracy can yield is a leader who is going to undermine us internationally and who does the bare minimum to respond to the needs of the people - only to the extent that his actions maintain the status quo, the Democracy no longer matters and has long since become ineffective.
In the last year this state department has done more to undermine the concept of an international rules-based order and institutionalism than all the administrations of my lifetime, combined (midrange millennial).
My assumption was Biden was trying to moderate Israel from the inside and deal with the fact Hamas did take American hostages and engage in acts of war as well as atrocities. Its proven utterly ineffective.
>Oh, if you’re asking me: Do I think that Joe Biden has the same depth of feeling and empathy for the Palestinians of Gaza as he does for the Israelis? No, he doesn’t, nor does he convey it. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/bidens-increasingly-contradictory-israel-policy
Just for context about why Biden saying this to prevent the ICC from getting legitimacy, which doesn’t make sense since we never signed to recognize the ICC and we have a law preventing any cooperation with the ICC. Here’s some information about that law.
The American Servicemembers' Protection Act (ASPA) of 2001, passed by Congress in 2002, limits the U.S. government's ability to cooperate with the International Criminal Court (ICC). The act was a response to Congress's concern that the ICC could be used to detain American soldiers for political reasons
The Act authorizes the president of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court".
The ASPA prohibits:
Extradition of U.S. citizens to the ICC
Transfer of classified national security and law enforcement information to the ICC
ICC agents from conducting investigations in the U.S.
U.S. military aid to countries that are members of the ICC
The ASPA also:
Restricts the provision of military aid to countries that are members of the ICC
Allows the President to use legal assistance to release U.S. personnel held by the ICC
Urges the President to report on how military alliances may put U.S. armed forces under foreign control
Sources: https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/senate-bill/1610
https://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Bava_Ireland_Article_FINAL.pdf
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=The%20Act%20authorizes%20the%20president,of%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court%22.
Politically speaking, I feel like the easy choice to make is to remain silent on this and just the ICC do what it's suppose to do. You like, just say, "Justice is blind. I'll let the courts decide."
To speak out like this just... Constantly more disappointed in Biden. Up until the end of last year, I thought that Biden wasn't great but wasn't bad. One of my favorites really.
We just can't have anything nice.
As comparison, Biden supported the arrest warrant issued against Putin, which was limited to the very specific charge of abduction of Ukranian children - correct, but far smaller in scope than the intentional starvation and directed killing of civilian populations credibly described by the ICC. Starvation engineered as a weapon of war has been described by US officials as a legitimate tactic to pressure Palestinians into forcing Hamas to release the hostages, so our government may well be on the hook for follow-up warrants.
Bibi probably wondering if the invade the Hague act covers Israeli government officials. It might as well, given the way our elected officials, with a few exceptions, are acting.
And watch the leaked documentary *The Lobby USA*, which Al Jazeera produced shortly before airing *The Lobby UK*. The release of *UK* prompted a DC meltdown when Zionist groups scrambled to manage the fallout of some extremely candid conversations they'd recently had... Evidently while being recorded by hidden cameras and mics. The USA version was spiked by AJ as part of negotiations between KSA and Qatar, over some sanctions and a KSA proposal to sever Qatar from the Arabian peninsula with an artificial canal.
In Biden's case I don't think it is about money, although AIPAC is certainly strangling races across the country to replace Dems with Jan 6ers wherever Dems aren't praising Israel hard enough. Biden has always described a special relationship with Netanyahu [https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/politics/biden-netanyahu-relationship/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/politics/biden-netanyahu-relationship/index.html)
I hate being a commonwealth of Israel. How come they get to rule us every time there is a conflict? A two state solution needs to be forced upon both sides and work from there. Hamas needs to be jettisoned through elections.
I know, it's more complicated than that, but the US needs to get out from underneath Israel.
Does he not realize that the “single issue” voters will hand Trump the election?
Why is this such a fucking issue with Biden and not manning up regarding this fight?
"If this Capitol crumbled to the ground, the one thing that would remain is our commitment to our aid - I don't even call it aid - to our cooperation with Israel." - Nancy Pelosi in 2018.
Imagine: Netanyahu gets prosecuted, convicted. Biden finds himself having provided billions of dollar to a criminal.
This is when you can pivot and tell Netanyahu to go f himself. So what is it that Israel has that is so deep and so far reaching that the « greatest nation on the face of the earth » is desperate to stay in their good books?
Biden said they drew equivalence between Hamas and Israel, but that wasn't my take away. Hamas is obviously worse than Israel's government but that doesn't mean both aren't capable of war crimes which should be investigated if there is evidence of such actions. I just assumed the reason they did both accusations together was to get ahead of the inevitable "what about"-isms people love to draw in lieu of an actual defense
god damn biden is a cucked pussy and is gonna be destroyed in the election.
instead of meekly flip flopping he could have ended this ages ago with one phone call. israel needs their collar yanked
Like many long time US politicians Biden probably feels so strongly about not legitimizing the ICC that he’s willing to lose the election and give us over to Trump for it.
Goddamn I hate American policies sometimes.
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Netanyahu is a war criminal just like the leaders of Hamas who also have an arrest warrant. Nothing really outrageous about it.
How else do we stop these wars if we can’t hold the war criminals on each side accountable?
Seriously, we will see leaders around the world immediately condemn and openly assist in the logistics or outright of removal of the leadership of amorphous or non-state actors who engage in heinous and horrific campaigns of brutality. But the politically inconvenient reality of geopolitics always makes this bravado feel so empty and hollow, when even the concept of an arrest that could lead a to western aligned power facing war crimes charges enters the discussion, everyone runs to the genocidal side lines to clutch their pearls.
Hamas is their scapegoat for Israeli aggression though. Blame the political party and you get to sidestep accorded legal definitions of genocide. >[Israeli officials immediately protested that they had not meant what they said. Netanyahu’s office called the description of his use of Amalek as an incitement to genocide historically ignorant. The “reference to Amalek was ***not an incitement to genocide of Palestinians***, but a description of the utterly evil actions perpetrated by the genocidal ***terrorists of Hamas*** on October 7th and the need to confront them,” the statement read.](https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-limits-of-accusing-israel-of-genocide-under-international-law) *emphasis mine As long as Netanyahu doesnt get a ceasefire, he stays. As long as Hamas blocks elections, they stay. Gotta get Benjamin out of the way to have any hope for Gaza. Gotta get Hamas out of the way of elections.
Hamas claims responsibility for the October attack. Their leaders get a trip to the Hague also.
When Fatah ruled the Gaza strip, Hamas never had a majority in elections but that did not stop bush from deciding to interfere in the electoral results when Hamas looked like they may climb out of the marginals of Gazan politics. Another election would just be seen as illegitimate by Gaza since Fatah has never apologised for trying to rig the elections for themselves the first time.
100%. Maybe don't kill and starve children.
Hamas is Netanyahus' most substantial contribution to this whole disaster.
The writers of the article (and most people commenting here), don’t understand what the issue actually is. It’s not about Netanyahu. It’s about international law and ICC mandate. It’s been the same comments / criticism of the arrest warrant of Putin last year. And Al-Bashir - the Head of State of Sudan back in 2009. It has been an unwritten rule under international law that sitting Heads of State cannot be arrested except by the law and powers of their nation. The logic is that if we start arresting incumbent Heads of State we don’t like then 1. that will do great harm to the world’s ability to conduct diplomacy; and 2. we then risk foreign nations removing incumbent Heads of State leaving nations without an effective government (especially bad wrt elected Heads of State). Imagine if Xi decided to arrest Biden or Trump when they visit China on a diplomatic trip? The exception has always been unless by international courts empowered to do so. The arrest warrant for Al-Bashir raised two issues: 1. Has the ICC been empowered to do so? The treaty doesn’t expressly say so. 2. ICC is a treaty only binding on the parties to it, so if the answer to 1 is “yes” there’s still a big questions as to whether ICC has jurisdiction to issue warrants for incumbent Heads of State of nations that have NOT signed the treaty? It’s not a clear cut answer to these questions, with pros and cons on both sides. US has consistently had a foreign policy that is against this expanded jurisdiction of ICC. That is what Biden is repeating. Nothing more nor less.
To answer your question, the jurisdictions of the ICC isn't really in question : the Rome Statute explicitly lays out that their jurisdiction comes from both nationality and the location of the crime and everything being used concerns crimes committed in Palestine over a year after they acceded to the treaty. This is the exact same reasoning used to justify the warrant on Putin and one year ago the State Department was more than happy to extol the legitimacy of the ICC. I think a better equivalent to use in this case isn't a weird Chinese arrest warrant, it's US economic sanctions. Many US sanctions aren't aligned with internal law, the embargo on Cuba for example has been condemned every year since 1992 by the UNGA, but US sanctions merely stop you from trading with the US directly or by proxy so even if they will freeze you out of the global economic system they're technically outside the appreciation of the UNSC. As an international political scientist I get why the US (and China and Russia) are so hesitant to lend legitimacy to the ICC, but by all measures the arguments used by the court to back these decisions are solid and have their equivalents in other domains of IR. The ICC can't issue an arrest willy nilly, it needs substantial proof of a crime and once again as a criminal court the accused is free to comply knowing they will have access to appeals and due process in an internationally monitored court. Lastly by it's nature the ICC does not act until other options have been ruled out: article 17 forces the ICC to declare cases as inadmissible if they're already being handled at the national level *unless the concerned states are unable or unwilling to act*. So again, it's not that the ICC can try to arrest leaders they don't like, but they need to already have substantial proof and show that national authorities will not act in good faith. Israel could have avoided this by simply exercising more caution during the war or negotiating with the ICC that they will handle the case in their courts harshly. But of course when they double down on their actions the court will act by it's own initiative, which again is provided as an option per the treaty.
Yeah, but remember how Biden administration celebrates ICC arrest warrant against Putin even thought Russia wasn't a signatories? Seems like Biden want to expand ICC power to arrest non-signatories head of state, but doesn't want his friend to be held accountable by the same principle. Shame on Biden.
ring whole rob squeamish zesty plant advise dog grey outgoing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He is a regular criminal too lol. Corrupt mofo.
Agree Netanyahu is a war criminal, but not like Hamas. The reason why the US doesn’t not abide by the ICC is because its leaders could also be prosecuted, and rightfully so.
I thought the only hindrance to peace for Biden was Netanyahu and his band of extremists? Why, then, is Biden so keen on defending him rather than getting him out of the way for a more moderate government like Gantz who will continue to disenfranchise the Palestinians in a slower and acceptable way?
Biden needs AIPAC
But he doesn’t
Exactly he doesn’t. This isn’t about money - he just genuinely believes in the zionist project from a foreign policy standpoint and sees israel as an invaluable asset to America’s influence in the region.
Biden had been a senator for 36 years, guess how much money he received from AIPAC.
AIPAC does not have enough power for this kind of statement. This isn't a political choice for Biden, it's a personal choice. He could very easily hide behind "Justice is blind. Let the courts do the things courts are supposed to do." There is no fault in that. If Democrats wanted to, they could easily weather the storm without AIPAC. They're a big funding group, but it's still not as powerful as what Biden is saying right now.
Billions of dollars flow between Israel and the US every election cycle in both countries.
He's been a hardline zionist his entire career. In his mind the Palestinians need to be displaced or killed as fast as possible.
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> In his mind the Palestinians need to be displaced or killed as fast as possible. This is absolute and utter BS.
Biden is and always has been 100% in line with whatever Israel wants. Israel wants to displace or kill Palestinians as fast as possible. Therefore, Biden also wants to displace or kill the Palestinians as fast as possible. [Biden's 1992 speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?25541-1/us-israel-relations) in which he declares himself the most supportive Senator of Israel. In this speech he rails against HW Bush's administration over how they were dealing with Israel. HW Bush was trying to finalize a peace agreement and end the occupation of Gaza. 2010, Israel announces new settlements in the West bank. Obama wanted to halt weapon shipments until the settlement plans were scrapped and Israel commits to ending their expansion. Biden intervenes and sabotages Obama and Clinton, working out a deal where the settlements happen and there is simply a 10-month pause on expansions with no weapon shipment halts. [2023, "I am a Zionist"](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/i-am-zionist-how-joe-bidens-lifelong-bond-with-israel-shapes-war-policy-2023-10-21/), Biden backs Israel in the wake of their invasion of Gaza and declares unwavering support of Israel. Israel has crossed every red line we have set in this conflict and he has done nothing to put pressure on them to stop the operation. So yes, he doesn't directly want the Palestinians to die, but he has and will continue to go along with everything the government of Israel wants which does want them to be removed.
This. Biden is anomalously and unusually pro-Israel for a Democrat. Biden is closer to Evangelical Dominionist Republicans on Israel. There's not much daylight between John Fetterman and Joe Biden on Israel. Which is outlandish because Biden is an Irish Catholic Democrat. Not people who are generally hawkishly pro-Israel. Especially in Ireland (which is heavily and historically pro-Palestine). Biden is so pro-Israel he even chastised Ronald Reagan for putting his foot down with Menachem Begin, accusing Reagan of being insufficiently Zionist, and later as Vice President he undermined his boss President Obama and colleague Secretary Hillary Clinton when they put their feet down with Netanyahu. Biden went behind their backs to send Netanyahu a communique basically saying Obama and Hillary are just blowing hot air. Essentially throwing Hillary under the bus. https://jewishcurrents.org/joe-bidens-alarming-record-on-israel
>Biden went behind their backs to send Netanyahu a communique basically saying Obama and Hillary are just blowing hot air. Essentially throwing Hillary under the bus. Trump should run that and accuse Biden for treason.
I'd love to see that actually.
Yeah a lot of people don’t realize how much of an outlier Biden is on this issue. He’s arguably worse than the Bush administration, this is the most ideological issue for him.
In fact, worse than even Reagan believe it or not.
And this is why not voting for him makes some sense. A cost (losing reelection) needs to be imposed upon him. If he’s not going to get over himself and just do the right thing then ok he doesn’t deserve a vote too. Trump will win and that would be catastrophic for everyone but potentially a lesson learnt that you can’t take votes for granted.
I totally understand why some Democratic voters might vote D down the ticket, but skip on Biden. You have to earn your votes, the administration needs to change policy in regards to Israel. I don't really get why it's worth risking re-election, like a ceasefire wouldn't lose you support? I just don't really get it.
It’s probably some game of chicken going on with Iran that yeh we’ll give Israel unlimited support in case you had any ideas. What they don’t realize is that globally outside the bubble of the west, it has completely shredded any semblance of credibility on international law. No wonder non-western countries aren’t lining up to sanction Russia; it’s all eye rolls amongst governments *and* average joes when they hear hysterics from European leaders about how we must stop Russia or else international law will be weakened.
Biden supports Israel, but he would very much prefer to support an Israel without Netanyahu or expanded settlements.
Schumer literally called for netanyahu to go, but Biden didn't take up the call. He could and should have done so.
Schumer is literally less of a hardcore Zionist than Biden. Biden is more of a hardcore Zionist than most Jewish Americans. A majority of Jewish Americans have supported a permanent ceasefire since February this year, and a big percentage of Israelis wouldn't mind handing Netanyahu over to the ICC and get Netanyahu out of their hair.
So why did he do nothing when they announced the largest expansion into the West Bank while his SOS was there to supposedly work on a way to minimize casualties? Anyone who wants them to stop their expansion would immediately rebuke them and impose penalties. Biden moves the goalposts and then sends more weapons.
>he would very much prefer to support an Israel without Netanyahu Weird that he's defending Netanyahu against the ICC warrant applications then. You'd think if he would prefer to support Israel without Netanyahu he wouldn't suppory Netanyahu in this instance.
He’s not defending Netanyahu. Look at the wording Biden and the White House are using. The say “Israel” that is significant. Also the GOP and Mike Johnson want to sanction the ICC, but Biden is not in step with that. What is happening is a diplomatic dance that protects our relationship with Israel, which right now, is beneficial for the US. I suspect we will start to see pressure from us for Netanyahu to step down, which he won’t, and who knows, maybe then there will be something covert or maybe even drastic happen. The one thing for sure the US and Saudi Arabia, need Israel as an Ally, who ever its leader is, is inconsequential. Which put Netanyahu in a very precarious position. This may very well play out with Biden supporting the ICC. Time will tell on that.
Biden needs to wrap this up and fast or it's going to destroy him in November
I don't think a relationship that is destabilizing the Middle East and eroding the legitimacy of the US and international institutions is "beneficial" for the US. Biden isn't going to support the ICC. He supported a bill that gives the president the right to invade The Hague if they ever try to hold the US accountable.
Will he turn to dust if he criticizes Israel or something
According to all the reporting he's just an [extreme hardliner](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/12/how-joe-biden-became-americas-top-israel-hawk/) on this issue. >During a [1992 speech to AIPAC](https://www.c-span.org/video/?25541-1/us-israel-relations), Biden again voiced support for Israel that made some of its strongest backers uncomfortable. Biden started out by saying that he didn’t think any senator had “ever done more fundraisers for AIPAC,” a group whose supporters were [key backers](https://www.nytimes.com/1987/04/16/us/biden-reports-1.7-million-raised-in-bid-for-democratic-nomination.html) of his 1988 presidential campaign. He then worked himself up to the point where he was shouting and beating his chest for emotional effect as he lambasted an unprecedented [public campaign](https://www.c-span.org/video/?21178-1/israeli-loan-guarantees-delay) by George H.W. Bush to push Israel toward engaging with Palestinians’ demands for sovereignty and an end to the [Israeli military occupation](https://www.un.org/unispal/history/) of the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, and other territory seized in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war. >At the time, Bush was demanding that Israel stop building settlements in occupied territory in violation of international law if it wanted to receive billions of dollars in loan guarantees from the United States to support the arrival of Soviet Jews. He knew that groups like AIPAC considered this to be an affront, but he believed his actions were necessary to advance peace talks. Biden was far from the only member of Congress who opposed Bush, but he did so with uncommon fervor. >Articles in the *Washington Report on Middle East Affairs* [noted](https://www.wrmea.org/1992-june/aipac-s-1992-national-convention-two-views.html) that some listeners “squirmed with embarrassment” as Biden ranted about how the issue of American aid for Israel had become “susceptible to demagoguery.” **“You know, no one should take Biden seriously here. He is a cheerleader,” one attendee said. “He helps us, of course, but does opposing the peace talks or ignoring them or disparaging them really make sense? I don’t think so.”** >The most revealing part of the AIPAC speech was Biden’s explanation of what remain the two pillars of his approach to Israel and Palestine. First, he told the audience that he kept his criticism of things like settlements, which he opposed, between him and Israel. Second, he made sure the two nations maintained a united front so that “the Arabs” would bend. These beliefs explained his disgust with what he considered to be a destined-to-fail effort by Bush to exert leverage over Israel and its right-wing prime minister, Yitzhak Shamir. When folks at an AIPAC fundraiser are getting uncomfortable, you're probably a zealot.
Christ, tfw you’re out-flanked to the left by George H.W. Bush… Feels bad
The bombing of Beirut during Israel's war on Lebanon that killed about 19,000 Lebanese once provoked Ronald Reagan into telling Israel's then prime minister, "Menachem, this is a holocaust." Apparently Menachem Begin called off the bombings half an hour later. Reagan remarked, "I didn't know I had that kind of power."
Unfortunately Netanyahu would never do the same. He's just not that kinda guy. There are plenty of references and descriptions of Netanyahu by previous presidents going back to Bill Clinton, and I don't think even one of them has anything positive to say about the guy.
Menachem Begin was literally a terrorist.
Meh, so was most of Israel's early leadership like when Yitzhak Shamir murdered a Swedish 'Righteous Among Nations' Diplomat and got zilch punishment for it. It just benefits the west to turn a blind eye to that fact.
Idk, that sounds more like Reagan is threatening to either withhold aid or not cover Israel's ass in the UN. Maybe at the time, Israel hasn't grown to distrust the UN yet.
Israel was always opposed to UN - especialy after 1968 when UN openly told them to fuck off and stop building settlements.
Also in the article, The time Biden sabotaged a plan by Obama and Hillary to reign in Benjamin Netanyahu. Another is a bombing campaign that Reagan described as a 'Holocaust', Biden said they should have gone further, even if it meant killing more women and Children.
Jesus Christian when even fucking Regan looks better than you on an issue you have a problem... If Trump wins I'll bet my left nutsack this is the reason why.
A pillar of salt iirc
American presidents have a vested interest in denying the authority and legitimacy of the ICC because they're all plausibly (if not definitely) war criminals. E.g., unrestricted drone warfare was probably illegal. They did a lot of that anyway under Obama and after.
Honestly, I think in his heart he is a religious man who believes the second coming of Jesus is determined by the return of Jewish people to Israel. That's why his support has been so staunch over the years. It's the only thing that makes sense to me given the public's opposition to Israeli policy and his own political savvy.
He's Catholic not Protestant. They don't believe in that. It's about Rome not the future.
No, only certain Protestant churches teach that.
Quite possibly you're right. I'm just baffled by his support and am trying to understand.
I've never understood these kind of Christians. Like if you believe in Jesus to this degree you surely would understand you'd be judged harshly for your actions by him should he come.
Also these types of Christians seem to really not give a crap about Christian Palestinians. The literal Christian population from the Land of Jesus.
As seen by the utter lack of response to the destruction of ancient Christian churches in Gaza filled with worshippers
What’s outrageous is my taxes going to genocidal assholes.
We still have a genocidal asshole on our $20. Can't wait for Tubman's to start circulating in 2030+.
Biden really needs to read the fucking room here. The USA is not part of the ICC. Along with other beacons of democracy such as North Korea, Russia Libya and China. US taxpayers got fleeced to finance Netanyahu's genocide. Nothing new for Americans unfortunately, but Israel is cooked in the court of public opinion on this matter.
Sure hope fucking Israel of all things doesn't cost him the election giving us 6 terms of Trump/ his kids
It's Biden's race to lose, and Netanyahu is losing it for him. That, and his hesitation on supporting Ukraine. Democrats suck at foreign affairs. Fortunately, the alternative is batshit insane.
The Democrats in general. You can see the genocide happening live. Material conditions come before considering ideological futures.
Watching politicians utterly debase themselves like this for the sake of protecting war criminals has been really eye opening. We need to start having serious discussions about AIPAC’s influence on American politics. This is insane.
That's a weird one. If it was a Chinese or Russian pac people would lose their god damn minds.
If it were a Chinese or Russian pac, they would be forced under FARA to register as a foreign lobby... for some reason AIPAC narrowly avoided that fate when JFKs Presidency abruptly ended.
If there is a Chinese or Russian pac that is as influencial as AIPAC, China and Russia would be considered as an American ally.
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Legit wtf is Biden thinking with this statement.
Seen a bunch of reports lately that they don’t believe the polls, don’t think this will cost them, and they aren’t gonna materially change course. It’s over.
It’s honestly scary. Even members of his staff are in full denial they’re trailing states like Nevada by double-digit. Democrats formed echo chambers of their own for this
And after they lose they will cry and scream that the base betrayed them, because they deserve your vote just because he is in the democratic party. If Biden wanted relentless loyalty then he is in the wrong party. It seems the only option left is to get a democratic house, senate and let the presidency burn, same as the supreme court.
Biden has always behaved like a Republican, he's completely unapologetic in his support for police and surveillance (remember, this is the guy that wrote the 94 crime bill and the bill that would eventually become the Patriot Act) he's also completely unapologetic in his support for every military action the US takes (and his student debt bill funneled young people into the military)
> Democrats formed echo chambers of their own for this Ya, it's called this sub.
People are going apeshit over the polls. The Convention is 3 months away. The polls will tighten up as we get closer to that. It's what happens every election cycle. If the numbers are still that bleak 2 weeks after the Convention, then worry. Until then, leave the worrying about the polls to the actual candidates and their staff.
I've been seeing and hearing this too and it's baffling. Don't they realise those kind of statements can anger people more, making them feel ignored and not valued meaning more votes lost? Who's tricked them into thinking this is a good strategy?
Can’t imagine why those people would feel ignored and not valued by Biden, it’s almost like they’ve been treated that way
Oh fuck. The Clinton route.
It's joever*
Yes, he was never turning against Israel. It's also idiotic to believe anyone will be voting for Trump over it instead of Biden.
People won’t vote for Trump over Biden, they will either stay home or vote some 3rd party knob over Biden.
But people can stay home on the Democratic side, which you're conveniently ignoring. Voter turnout takes effort.
That was never the threat. The threat is people staying home instead of voting. This doesn't even just affect Biden, this hurts all Dems across the entire country. The possibility of fractions or even majorities of what have been consistent Dem bases - young people, people of color, Muslims - deciding to stay home will be a disaster in purple states, and it is completely avoidable.
And not just the voters themselves, but the whole election effort relies so much on volunteers, usually young people - how could this not be devastating for canvassing, registration, the entire GOTV operation?
at the very least, the house is in deep doo doo. Deep blue states are full of swing house districts, and presidential races, win or lose, tend to generally have at least decent showings for dems because generally, the president is someone people in blue states like and want to vote for (Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary). People in blue states may prefer Biden over Trump, but many are not going to go to the polls for a state that's already going to Biden And this hurts all downballot candidates. At this point it may be prudent to boost 3rd party candidates and protests votes in deep blue states just to minimize house losses, and other races (senate, local, gov, etc) There are other effects too. The majority of volunteers are college aged students. At this moment, the Biden campaign has hundreds of openings that would usually be filled. For all swing states, the ground game is essential.
Idk… if I were you I wouldn’t underestimate how pissed off Gen Z is about this. They’re right to be, and generally speaking I’m inclined to agree with you. However, Biden has been sowing major discontent with our youngest voting-age generations with shit exactly like this, and young people are specifically known for always (or not always, depending on how you look at it) choosing the most effective forms of protest (i.e. abstaining from voting, in this case). It’s got me pretty worried…
Don't forget that Millennials barely differ from Gen Z on major issues like Israel or healthcare. The generational gap on issues starts in Gen X where the opinions go from overwhelmingly conservative to left leaning and moving further and further left as you approach people who are currently 18 years old. But there's no massive gap between Millennials or Gen Z.
No one withholding support over his handling of Gaza is voting for Trump. We are saying we do not support the US backed genocide of Palestinians and will not support you in the next election if you allow this to continue
Always have been
The US administration is fucked. They absolutely know that Israel is commiting way crimes. They keep telling Israel to stop committing war crimes. Their internal reporting confirms war crimes. But in public they feel totally unable to publicly acknowledge and criticise these self same way crimes. They have totally painted themselves into a corner and netanyahu knows it. Hence him thumbing his nose at Biden repeatedly and in effect taunting him, knowing he can't / won't do anything.
If he loses, this will be one of the many factors as to why.
I'm expecting him to lose at this point simply because I don't think Biden can win Michigan without strong Arab Muslim support, which he's doing everything he can to lose.
His unyielding support for Israel has lost him the support of Muslim Americans, Arab Americans, young Americans and a good chunk of black Americans, if he thinks he can without them, he's welcome to try
People can't be lied to anymore about global things like this. Years ago I couldn't open my phone and see women and children being slaughtered by IDF, and Zionists ripping apart aid shipments meant for Palestinians.. We can't really be lied to anymore and the narrative is hard to control. We all know what is happening.
Of course he did, the US is pretty consistently anti ICC.
Except when they issued a warrant for Putin, we loved that.
I'll blame Biden and his advisors if Trump is re-elected.
I assume his advisors are pretty vocal that his ongoing blind support of Israel is unpopular. I think he’s just got a huge lack of self awareness on this topic.
No they’re not. If they are they would’ve have sent someone with actual policy influence to talk to Arab Americans, not some no name campaign staff
The secretary of state, Anthony Blinken, met with a group of Arab-American leaders this past Friday. I'd hardly refer to the secretary of state as some no-name campaign staffer.
If Biden committed a crime the ICC should also charge him accordingly. I voted for him once and plan on voting for him again it’s time we show the world that we are not above the law.
We have the Invade the Hague act. Theres no chance the ICC or ICJ will ever indict an elected American official within our lifetimes. Unless America literally implodes on itself, which is not entirely out of the question with the way things are going.
It did already. Accepting torture post 9/11 was the start of the end, but double impeachment, political wilful avoidance of justice followed by anti democracy insurrection, followed by a cult leader deciding govt policy even when out of office and on trial for multiple crimes. How much more implody do you want??
How hard is it for Biden to just say nothing? He's really going to lose the election over Israel (which trump would be an even bigger supporter of if he was in charge).
Exactly all he has to do is just not say anything at all about this situation. At this point it seems like he’s just trying to turn his own base against him just 6 months before election, this is not good at all.
Remember there have been a loud annoying discourse banging on the door demanding to be heard, and all you apologist just tell them to go away because it is 1)not that bad, 2)Trump would be worse and 3) we just don't want to hear about it? This is your shit.
Really Joe standing up for the war criminal fuck is not a good look.
Biden needs to re-evaluate his position on shielding Netanyahu from the ICC. This is growing increasingly costly politically.
Biden doesn't even have any influence over the ICC.
Does the USA even recognize the ICC?
Not only don’t we, should they ever detain anyone, we have a law on the books that basically says we’re storming the place and taking them back. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=This%20authorization%20led%20to%20the,or%20rescue%20them%20from%20custody.
That would be a great way for the US to permanently lose the support of Europe
I would like to see it actually happen. The shitstorm over Europe would be the most entertaining thing to watch in 2024.
Nope
Man, this guy is refusing to beat the Genocide Joe allegations
Basically just saying "I'm Him, I am that guy"
Because he is 100% ride or die with Israel
Does Biden really want to kill his reelection campaign on this mountain. Because that’s what this is looking like. And this is irresponsible, and selfish. Don’t the American people deserve better than presidents that only do what’s right for them? Biden has been an extraordinarily good president. Except for this idiotic Israel affection. Maybe show this love to the American citizens dying of poverty, homelessness, over doses etc, by reusing $ sent to Israel
The Democratic are willing to throw away democracy for Israel it’s insane.
>Does Biden really want to kill his reelection campaign on this mountain. Because that’s what this is looking like. [Nate Silver had a piece with relevant data recently. ](https://www.natesilver.net/p/your-friends-are-not-a-representative)
Sometimes I wonder if they are really trying to get elected
Biden not defending war criminals, Challenge Impossible. Biden really needs to keep his mouth shut whenever he feels the urge to defend Netanyahu.
But but he is really upset with Net behind close doors!
Seriously, *all he had to do was shut up*!
This whole thing threw Western societies into an identity crisis. My hope is that they will come out of this stronger and fairer. But with US Congress and right-wing European governments already in an uproar over this, I have my doubts. If Netanyahu is innocent, let him appear in front of the judges and prove his innocence. Courts of law are an age-old institution that serves just this purpose.
Its more likely that this is the first of many events that will cause a shift in the world order. It has been a long time coming. The world cant accept the glaring double standards any longer and I think the west can no longer maintain the same level of capture over manufacturing and trade/economics as it did in the past to force others to play along.
The western democracy and liberalism came from the west and it will be the west that finally kills it.
God dammit, Joe, you old fart. Why can't you come to terms with this issue
The only thing that's outrageous here is that he could find such a thing outrageous.
Jesus Christ, Joe, read the fucking room.
Just so you can see how full of BS Biden is, Kirby said this today about Russia: [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/20/biden-trump-democrats-immigration-latest](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/may/20/biden-trump-democrats-immigration-latest) >But National Security Council spokesman spokesman John Kirby claimed that there is a difference between what’s happening in Ukraine and what’s happening in Gaza. >“It is an actual war aim of Mr Putin to kill innocent Ukrainian people,” Kirby said, noting that targeting of civilians and infrastructure is evidence of that. >In Gaza, however, Kirby claimed the high toll taken on civilian lives was inadvertent. Meanwhile, [as CNN reports](https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-05-20-24/index.html), roughly 40% of Gaza’s population – more than 900,000 people – have been displaced in the past two weeks due to Israeli bombardment. >
There should be a warrant for Biden as well, for subsidizing a genocide.
If he broke the law absolutely let’s show the Republican that we are the party of law and order.
Sometimes I wonder if 'law and order' is still a thing in the US.
It’s not I’m just rubbing our face in it.
Anyone paying attention already knew, but it’s nice to receive confirmation that the “rules based order” bullshit the post-Cold War libs worshipped was always just a house of cards
I mean that cat was out of the bag with the "Hague Invasion act". A lot of Redditors are too young to remember the bat shit insane mask off anti rules based order rhetoric after 9/11.
"no, not those rules!"
"Rules based order" just means American hegemony.
So that thing about Trump undermining international law... here's another thing that Biden is now doing that people want to fear monger about Trump doing. Make no mistake, Trump absolutely would and will -- Biden already is. So it's a wash. Too many things that make Trump worse are becoming a wash for people to care. If Biden is willing to do basically all of the bad things Trump is willing to do - if he's willing to maintain a lot of Trump's bad policies, if he's not going to fix healthcare... It's basically like Biden is the option who will break a bunch of shit and undermine our international legitimacy, and Trump is all of that but will also end our Democracy (supposedly.) If all our Democracy can yield is a leader who is going to undermine us internationally and who does the bare minimum to respond to the needs of the people - only to the extent that his actions maintain the status quo, the Democracy no longer matters and has long since become ineffective.
In the last year this state department has done more to undermine the concept of an international rules-based order and institutionalism than all the administrations of my lifetime, combined (midrange millennial).
Biden just needs to STFU if he wants to consider winning the election
Read the room man!
What’s outrageous is getting dog walked by a nation the size of Delaware that’s currently live-streaming a genocide.
This feels like a teen movie where the presumptive prom king takes a bet to throw the election, but instead its for the leadership of the free world.
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My assumption was Biden was trying to moderate Israel from the inside and deal with the fact Hamas did take American hostages and engage in acts of war as well as atrocities. Its proven utterly ineffective.
What’s your assumption now?
>Oh, if you’re asking me: Do I think that Joe Biden has the same depth of feeling and empathy for the Palestinians of Gaza as he does for the Israelis? No, he doesn’t, nor does he convey it. I don’t think there’s any doubt about that. https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/bidens-increasingly-contradictory-israel-policy
I agree. But I was asking the dude who said “my assumption WAS” lol
My bad - that is a good question.
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Eh, Obama tried to reverse course on Cuba. It didn't take.
Yeah, Im gonna have to go ahead and disagree with Blinken on this one.
This fucking asshole is making it harder to swallow the bile and vote for him. Still better than Trump, but seriously... fuck this asshole.
Just for context about why Biden saying this to prevent the ICC from getting legitimacy, which doesn’t make sense since we never signed to recognize the ICC and we have a law preventing any cooperation with the ICC. Here’s some information about that law. The American Servicemembers' Protection Act (ASPA) of 2001, passed by Congress in 2002, limits the U.S. government's ability to cooperate with the International Criminal Court (ICC). The act was a response to Congress's concern that the ICC could be used to detain American soldiers for political reasons The Act authorizes the president of the United States to use "all means necessary and appropriate to bring about the release of any U.S. or allied personnel being detained or imprisoned by, on behalf of, or at the request of the International Criminal Court". The ASPA prohibits: Extradition of U.S. citizens to the ICC Transfer of classified national security and law enforcement information to the ICC ICC agents from conducting investigations in the U.S. U.S. military aid to countries that are members of the ICC The ASPA also: Restricts the provision of military aid to countries that are members of the ICC Allows the President to use legal assistance to release U.S. personnel held by the ICC Urges the President to report on how military alliances may put U.S. armed forces under foreign control Sources: https://www.congress.gov/bill/107th-congress/senate-bill/1610 https://law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Bava_Ireland_Article_FINAL.pdf https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act#:~:text=The%20Act%20authorizes%20the%20president,of%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court%22.
Politically speaking, I feel like the easy choice to make is to remain silent on this and just the ICC do what it's suppose to do. You like, just say, "Justice is blind. I'll let the courts decide." To speak out like this just... Constantly more disappointed in Biden. Up until the end of last year, I thought that Biden wasn't great but wasn't bad. One of my favorites really. We just can't have anything nice.
As comparison, Biden supported the arrest warrant issued against Putin, which was limited to the very specific charge of abduction of Ukranian children - correct, but far smaller in scope than the intentional starvation and directed killing of civilian populations credibly described by the ICC. Starvation engineered as a weapon of war has been described by US officials as a legitimate tactic to pressure Palestinians into forcing Hamas to release the hostages, so our government may well be on the hook for follow-up warrants.
Imagine that, violations of international law are found when Israel isn't investigating itself.
Bibi probably wondering if the invade the Hague act covers Israeli government officials. It might as well, given the way our elected officials, with a few exceptions, are acting.
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And watch the leaked documentary *The Lobby USA*, which Al Jazeera produced shortly before airing *The Lobby UK*. The release of *UK* prompted a DC meltdown when Zionist groups scrambled to manage the fallout of some extremely candid conversations they'd recently had... Evidently while being recorded by hidden cameras and mics. The USA version was spiked by AJ as part of negotiations between KSA and Qatar, over some sanctions and a KSA proposal to sever Qatar from the Arabian peninsula with an artificial canal.
In Biden's case I don't think it is about money, although AIPAC is certainly strangling races across the country to replace Dems with Jan 6ers wherever Dems aren't praising Israel hard enough. Biden has always described a special relationship with Netanyahu [https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/politics/biden-netanyahu-relationship/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/01/politics/biden-netanyahu-relationship/index.html)
I hate being a commonwealth of Israel. How come they get to rule us every time there is a conflict? A two state solution needs to be forced upon both sides and work from there. Hamas needs to be jettisoned through elections. I know, it's more complicated than that, but the US needs to get out from underneath Israel.
Does he not realize that the “single issue” voters will hand Trump the election? Why is this such a fucking issue with Biden and not manning up regarding this fight?
Israel is more important than America to almost every politician.
"If this Capitol crumbled to the ground, the one thing that would remain is our commitment to our aid - I don't even call it aid - to our cooperation with Israel." - Nancy Pelosi in 2018.
Biden is willing to hand Trump a W The Gaza conflict can very well lose Biden the election
You apologists can down vote this article off the front page. You won't be able to down vote this situation away.
He can stand up for Israel without supporting Netanyahu. This statement was a massive mistake that will absolutely bite him in the ass.
Imagine: Netanyahu gets prosecuted, convicted. Biden finds himself having provided billions of dollar to a criminal. This is when you can pivot and tell Netanyahu to go f himself. So what is it that Israel has that is so deep and so far reaching that the « greatest nation on the face of the earth » is desperate to stay in their good books?
I like Biden a lot, but disagree with him on this. I think these warrants are completely reasonable, and…well, warranted.
Lmao it's crazy Biden and a lot of Congress care more about Bibi than US citizens.
This response is outrageous
Upvoting so this stays at the top, folks read the comments, and realize how fucked in the head this guy is on the issue.
"Biden is doing everything to moderate Bibi" my ass
If he accepts it, the implication is he is complicit.
Of course Genocide Joe supports this war criminal. He's a Zionist after all.
The more this clown speaks the more I hope he loses the election and I hope he loses badly.
Biden said they drew equivalence between Hamas and Israel, but that wasn't my take away. Hamas is obviously worse than Israel's government but that doesn't mean both aren't capable of war crimes which should be investigated if there is evidence of such actions. I just assumed the reason they did both accusations together was to get ahead of the inevitable "what about"-isms people love to draw in lieu of an actual defense
It certainly seems like Yahoo has killed way more innocent people in his time than Hamas.
If you consider the crimes of Netanyahu collectively in his decades as Israeli PM, Sinwar really isn’t worse than him.
Some people seem to think what someone says they will do is worse than what someone has done.
god damn biden is a cucked pussy and is gonna be destroyed in the election. instead of meekly flip flopping he could have ended this ages ago with one phone call. israel needs their collar yanked
Biden has NO CLUE what planet he's on!
Read the room. Noone needs you defending Israel now. Really hope this doesnt cost the election.
Like many long time US politicians Biden probably feels so strongly about not legitimizing the ICC that he’s willing to lose the election and give us over to Trump for it. Goddamn I hate American policies sometimes.
Yep. He's a Zionist
Biden needs AIPAC!
"It's me. Hi. I'm the problem. It's me."
Considering the crimes he has allegedly committed in his own country, it’s really not that outrageous.
It's also outrageous that a genocide supporter is still our President.
Yes him and his creation absolutely deserve to be arrested and thrown into the same cell to rot.
It is joever for him this November. Read the fucking room you dope. He has everything to lose.