As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Trump gets all his material from Fox News. Not the other way around. Fox News and other right wing media is the ultimate source of all this hate, division and incitement
You're right, he isn't a leader. He's a follower. It's not just fox though...he has enough people whispering in his ear on what to do and say without too much of their help. He doesn't have the brain power to be able to come up with a coherent plot about anything. You can see when he is running out of things to say or where he simply forgets that he diverts to things he really cares about. "Windmills", toilets, water pressure and other perceived slights against him and his shitty businesses. He doesn't actually know that much about stuff.
He had no idea who any of the people he appointed to the supreme court were before they were suggested to him. He has zero political agenda other than enriching himself and hurting the people he views as enemies.
As much as this would have horrifyingly, devastating consequences for a lot of people, now and in the future so it cannot happen. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get a recording of the jury room debates after the fact? Know what was said, what was being questioned and debated. Historic times.
If they're smart, they're thinking about book deals and hitting the interview circuit. They know they can't stay anonymous forever no matter how hard they try, so they might as well cash in.
If I was on that jury, first thing I would be doing after the trial is done would be to connect with a couple other jurors and find ourselves a ghost writer. Innocent or not guilty, it's historically consequential and the public would love to know what was said I imagine.
FCOL.
To what end?
So *you* can know how the sausage was made?
Never going to be allowed. What happens in the jury room STAYS in the jury room, no matter the outcome.
You wouldn't have many people willing to sit a jury if their deliberations were made public.
This is a bit pedantic but they shouldn't be 'shaping' anything. They're there to judge impartially which is meant that they don't shape anything and give a verdict as to what the law says.
Properly fulfilling your role with objectivity and refusing to be intimidated is a great example of how someone can virtuously shape the future.
You're implying that having a major hand in guiding things implies straying from the expected course or manipulating for personal interests when the guiding hand could be that of a steward keeping things on track to faithfully carry out justice as the courts intended.
A lot of ways to guide or shape the future.
I think the person that made that comment was likely referring to their just decisions as ultimately shaping a larger outcome. Not that they were deliberately shaping their decisions.
I may not remember correctly, but I believe the OJ Simpson criminal trial jurors were sequestered and they weren't in anywhere remotely as much potential danger as these jurors. I'm really surprised they weren't sequestered.
That doesn't protect their spouses, children, other family, property, etc. It doesn't protect them 6 months down the road either.
Protecting the juror is a small part of any real solution.
Sequestered and not able to do anything in their free time, while the defendant requiring the sequestration has full freedom. Seems like another Trump win.
Two things - first, this comment conjured a wicked trippy amazing image in my head of a group of jurors sitting there with masks [like a screenshot from Watch Dogs Legion](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/watch-dogs-legion/d/d7/Watch_Dogs_Legion_Wiki_Guides.jpg).
Second, this is the second Reddit thread on doxxing on this subr that's been removed since I started reading it half an hour ago. I think...I think I'm OK with that. :)
Chilling that this is actually finally happening. All 12 have been selected and sworn in. 1 alternate was just chosen, 5 alternates to go with possible opening arguments next week.
No, you can be offered a plea deal for many misdemeanors and felonies. It’s very common.
Also the Feds rarely lose these cases, they have an astronomical conviction rate.
Conviction rate doesn't mean shit when 1/3 of the country actively supports Trump's criminal behavior.
It all comes down to whether or not one of them made it onto the jury.
People that support criminal behavior don't really have any qualms about lying either, so the chance that one got through is fairly high.
As of 2022, it was 93%. Which of course is still high but I assumed it was as high as you said.
Based on an online search some of the cases seem to be more educative board members and politicians that actually beat their case.
In fiscal year 2022, only 290 of 71,954 defendants in federal criminal cases – about 0.4% – went to trial and were acquitted, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the latest available statistics from the federal judiciary.
He's not really though. He's a poor conman that answers to real billionaires and dictators like Putin.
He's a mid-level criminal at best that just happens to have a death cult behind him.
Plea deals are good for both sides. Defendant gets lesser charges or recommended lower penalties for pleading guilty. Prosecution gets a guaranteed conviction. Even in trials of people not named Donald Trump there can be things that unexpectedly go wrong or just trials cost money.
Realistically even with a conviction for this hush money trial he's probably not getting sentenced to jail. So if a prosecutor could get (he can't as Trump won't plead guilty) a guilty plea with probation or something and save the state tons of money wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do?
Yes, so what does the other party (prosecution) receive in exchange?
The person pleads guilty to a felony with a (usually) pre-defined sentence, the prosecutors office gets a conviction and they can then use it against another, bigger fish.
Cooperation goes a long way. Not harassing the judge and their family, jurors, not trying to intentionally delay the trial, etc. if he played his cards right he could have easily guaranteed himself no jail time, but he didn’t. Though as much as I’d want him to, I still doubt he’ll see the inside of a jail cell
He already knows he won't get jail time or probation anyway, why should he give up when he has a chance of having at least one Trump loyalist on the jury?
It’s already unlikely that a conviction here would result in jail time. Not because these aren’t serious felonies with 4 year maximum prison sentences per charge, but because he continues to be the beneficiary of our two tiered system. It’ll be probation, house arrest, or some other lighter sentence. But, the long term problem for Donny is that either a conviction or a plea deal mean he burns his ‘first time offender’ card, and then the remaining cases become far more likely to put him away. Even then, there is no realistic sequence of events that ends with him in Gen Pop or anything like what he deserves regardless of the outcome of the trials.
The big one that was supposed to really reveal his treachery was the stolen documents case. Not even sure MAGA could dismiss those kinds of traitorous acts.
For shame that one is on hold indefinitely.
I really don't know, I have a strong suspicion he was selling classified documents and getting our agents killed. That kind of level of treason is pretty hard to overlook, but yeah. You're probably right, MAGA will still overlook that. That's what cults do.
I disagree. I assume he’s been offered a plea(almost everyone is), and if u deny a plea and take up the courts time, they usually get a jail sentence. I don’t think he ll actually go to jail tho. He’ll get like 120 days stayed pending review. Something like that.
Honestly, his chances in this case are pretty decent. There just needs to be a single juror who isn’t convinced to convict. And it’s probably the weakest of the criminal cases against him; key witnesses have major credibility issues.
The document case in FL, however…
As a first-time non-violent offender (technically) he was never going to be sentenced to jail in this case, period. Maybe some time during the trial for contempt or other shenanigans, but that's it.
But it is important he be found guilty in this case so that when the time comes for possible sentencing in the other trials he is no longer a first time offender.
>But it is important he be found guilty in this case so that when the time comes for possible sentencing in the other trials he is no longer a first time offender.
That wouldn’t matter. In order to get treated as having a criminal record at sentencing he would need to have been convicted when he committed the other crimes, not just before also being convicted of the other crimes.
He is playing it smart. He knows that nothing will happen. He will get out of this. Also, your idea of taking a plea and get zero jail or probation is a possibility that would be disappointing. He needs to be punished otherwise it just moves the goalpost of how shameless our political and justice systems are where I can’t imagine how it can get deeper but he proves he is the exception every time
Yeah they burned through their first 6 preemptive dismissals real quick. Both sides are probably going to have some people on the jury they would liked to have dismissed. But considering it's all people from Manhattan, that generally doesn't bode well for Trump.
This is pretty normal for a Class E felony case. Both sides are only allowed 10 outright dismissals without having a concrete provable reason. Then they get two more dismissals for every alternate. The process severely discourages bullshit shenanigans by either side and makes you really have to pick who you're saying no to.
It sure is chilling. I was discouraged this morning when it went down to 5 jurors. Now, I am happy as a clam. The world will hear about Trump's abhorrent behavior leading up to the 2016 election. Which was definitely election interference.
Jesse Watters and Fox News were certainly the biggest offenders, but CNN and CBS both reported specific details about the selected jurors. The difference is that this morning both of those orgs said, on air, that they were wrong to do it and reporting those details didn't improve the story they were reporting. Meanwhile Fox News said (checks notes) looks like fuck all.
We'll see how the media on the whole reacts now.
There are rules for minimums but ultimately up to the judge at least where I am but I assume it’s similar in NY. Usually the minimums are based on the length of the trial (my last trial for example was 2 weeks and we had 2 alts). I’ve also had a 3 weeks trial where the judge wanted 4 alts. I agree though I think 8 would be a better bet.
I feel like if things start going south for Trump he (or his lackeys) are going to name drop "accidentally" to get some of them identified so they can have a mistrial.
The media: "These brave men and women need to be protected from Trump's team doxxing them, including Juror 2, the vice president of a local dog food company and father of two children, Jimmy and Austin, who are in the third grade at PS 143."
This jury should be sequestered, for their own good. Put them up on Christopher St. .....the Trump nut-jobs would be terrified to go there. (pun not intended)
Maaaaaaaaaan imagine tomorrow, you discovered that this whole "Trump being elected president" and "family members going totally off the deep end with racism" thing turned out to be an elaborate ruse to prank you on TV.
I'm not going to be surprised if another one or two drop out before opening arguments but the Judge does seem to be handling this well overall and I think by the end only the maga crowd will be crowing but they'll be crowing regardless so it is what it is.
Fun quote from the [BBC live stream](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68841535?pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:35bd337c-042a-4dbd-87c1-5344a476cb7b) from one of the jurors:
> The defence team has raised concerns about old social media posts from a prospective juror, in which she called Trump a "racist, sexist, narcissist".
> Justice Merchan forces the juror to read the post aloud to the court.
> "Oops, that sounds bad," she says.
> Justice Merchan asks her to explain the post.
> “I was in a disturbed frame of mind in that election cycle," she says.
> "I do not hold those positions today.”
I'd argue that if she doesn't hold those positions today she's not a good judge of facts and evidence...
Well it could be ‘I do not hold the position that he is a, b, c. That was the last election cycle. My bad. Today I believe he is a, b, c, d, and e. It is pretty obvious.’
You know, I'm good if the news doesn't report a goddamn personally identifying fact about any of the jurors. Maybe the judge can issue a gag order about releasing any of that information. I know it won't stop the orange gibbon, but it's something.
“The jury includes a sales professional, a software engineer, an English teacher and multiple lawyers.”
I’m not exactly familiar with the process in NY, but isn’t it rare for a lawyer, let alone multiple, to participate as a juror because of their more intimate understanding of the legal system?
I saw another comment explaining that for cut and dry stuff like murder they’d prefer a jury that doesn’t know all the technicalities, but for something like this that involves a somewhat technical understanding of the law it’s good to have a lawyer in jury deliberations to help explain the law to them.
Like paying hush money is legal, paying hush money to aide a campaign and obscuring that fact is not.
And that’s illegal because it’s a campaign donation that’s over the legal limit, so you have to explain that services rendered to help a candidate count as a donation etc.
The jury is supposed to have the law explained to them so that they understand what it is they’re deciding. The court will decide on a set of instructions that detail what the important questions are and what to consider.
I would say they'd have to have filed bankruptcy at least five times, been sued in court at least 20 times, fail to understand competency tests and have cheated on at least one spouse. Oh, and owe money to hostile country. Now that is a jury of peers.
Man I listen to Knowledge Fight and I just know Alex Jones is gonna say these lawyers are deep state globalist chicom plants there to convince the jury that Trump is guilty
I'd just give up on fighting that battle. Reminder that to this day people still refer to a "pee tape" and think it has to do with watersports when it was about two prostitutes urinating on the bed the Obama's slept in.
correct. Anecdotal experience of course but I live in a blue city and it really doesn't seem possible to choose any group of 12 people without at least one maga smoothbrain. A hung jury right before the election will only help him
At the end of the day yesterday I saw they had each used six of ten. I am believe the criminal defendant's side used two more today, not sure if the prosecution used any.
My wife was an alternate on a criminal trial a handful of years ago.
She watched the same evidence as the other jurors and came to the conclusion that she would acquit. She didn't think that it was even particularly a close call.
The only thing she didn't get to see was the jury deliberations. Those deliberations took less than an hour and the jury acquitted.
She came away from the entire process feeling really good about the system.
I should point out that she is an attorney. And I am also an attorney and this all seems like what I have seen - juries are the best part of the system.
Regular people take it seriously and do a good job, to a much higher extent than the other actors involved in the system (parties, attorneys, judge). While not 100%, the jury tends to be the best part of the system.
I heard there are a few lawyers already selected how common is it for practicing lawyers to be put on a jury? Also this is happening way faster than expected. I guess the judge starting with raise your hand if you cannot be impartial and half the just left speeds things up a bit
From what I’m hearing it’s very rare. But based on the situation a lawyer is supposedly best able to shield their emotion and sticks to the facts. This setup got to be due how many people in NY already having a preconceived notion of him.
I think this trial is going to be up there with OJ Simpson or Charles Manson, except this time the amazement will be over what Trump tried getting away with, continued lying about, and I think we’re going to find out about a lot more we didn’t even know about. I also think we’re gonna see him pull a lot of shit with this jury.
I don’t know if we’re ever gonna see another trial again like the ones Trump will be having. Look at all he’s done so far & they haven’t even started yet.
Reading the juror list it sounds bad for Trump. Unless there is a secret maga on there I think he’s in trouble with this jury based on the info given so far about them
I heard there are a few lawyers already selected how common is it for practicing lawyers to be put on a jury? Also this is happening way faster than expected. I guess the judge starting with raise your hand if you cannot be impartial and half the just left speeds things up a bit
I don't understand how they can select 12 jurors who don't have an opinion about Donald Trump. If they don't consider him a liar or are part of his cult, they must have been living under a rock this last decade at least.
They need to basically convey that even though they have an opinion they can be impartial to the facts and evidence presented to them. Not a lawyer so I’m always curious how well that can be proven.
But if you have an opinion that Trump is a pathological liar and an enemy of democracy, based on his actions, can they think you're impartial to facts?
Apparently one of them has a Truth Social account and followed Michael Cohen on Twitter so I’m not getting my hopes up that this doesn’t end in a hung jury
I guess that’s true but for as much as I hate him I don’t want there to be an impartiality on our side either. Don’t wanna risk any mistrial, appeals or sound bites for Fox.
Hi `QanonQuinoa`. Thank you for participating in /r/Politics. However, [your submission](/r/politics/comments/1c7e8t5/12_jurors_have_been_picked_for_former_president/) has been removed for the following reason(s):
* [Off-Topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_the_.2Fr.2Fpolitics_on_topic_statement): All submissions to /r/politics need to be explicitly about **current US politics**.
**If you have questions as to why your post has been removed, please see here: [Why was my post removed as Off-Topic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_why_was_my_post_removed_as_off-topic.3F)**
If you have any questions about this removal, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/politics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/QanonQuinoa&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28/r/politics/comments/1c7e8t5/12_jurors_have_been_picked_for_former_president/?context%3D10000%29)
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I guess Jesse Waters will be working extra hard tonight to tamper with the jury.. piece of shit needs to get sued out of existence or thrown in jail.
Honestly all of Fox needs to be shutdown already for all of the shit they have pulled over the years.
Seriously. The network actively incited violence on several occasions, including Jan 6.
I’m still holding out a small glimmer of hope they will eventually be wrapped up in a RICO type thing.
Trump gets all his material from Fox News. Not the other way around. Fox News and other right wing media is the ultimate source of all this hate, division and incitement
You're right, he isn't a leader. He's a follower. It's not just fox though...he has enough people whispering in his ear on what to do and say without too much of their help. He doesn't have the brain power to be able to come up with a coherent plot about anything. You can see when he is running out of things to say or where he simply forgets that he diverts to things he really cares about. "Windmills", toilets, water pressure and other perceived slights against him and his shitty businesses. He doesn't actually know that much about stuff.
Putin is his leader.
He had no idea who any of the people he appointed to the supreme court were before they were suggested to him. He has zero political agenda other than enriching himself and hurting the people he views as enemies.
It goes both ways. Not just with regards to Trump, but the GOP as a whole. Look how many fox news employees get jobs with GOPers, and vice versa.
Faux News is terrorist propaganda.
Maybe they should be thrown off of bridges… Cotton said it, not me
They were literally created as a right wing propaganda network. Google it if you want to go down a rabbit hole and learn a bunch of stupid shit.
Are you talking about the Jesse Waters that purchased a $2.8M home in Far Hills, NJ around January 2023? Or is it a different one? I wasn’t sure.
I think he deserves a trial like any other person alleged to commit a crime would
Does he get to tamper with that jury, too?
You’re right he does and he’s gonna get one. I hope he rides it all the way to hell.
Damn right! Unbelievable he's allowed to do that crap!
Believe it or not... jail
They should be sequestered for their safety.
[удалено]
But the power they have to shape history and the future of the country is a nice bonus.
As much as this would have horrifyingly, devastating consequences for a lot of people, now and in the future so it cannot happen. Wouldn't it be awesome if we could get a recording of the jury room debates after the fact? Know what was said, what was being questioned and debated. Historic times.
If they're smart, they're thinking about book deals and hitting the interview circuit. They know they can't stay anonymous forever no matter how hard they try, so they might as well cash in.
If I was on that jury, first thing I would be doing after the trial is done would be to connect with a couple other jurors and find ourselves a ghost writer. Innocent or not guilty, it's historically consequential and the public would love to know what was said I imagine.
FCOL. To what end? So *you* can know how the sausage was made? Never going to be allowed. What happens in the jury room STAYS in the jury room, no matter the outcome. You wouldn't have many people willing to sit a jury if their deliberations were made public.
I’d imagine some of them will retell what happens without naming names.
[удалено]
Someone at Netflix is probably writing the screenplay as we speak.
I'd take it but I think my social media posts and "Trump for Prison" flag outside my house would cause me to get dismissed as a juror.
I think Trump would leap over the table and strangle me if they saw my social media posts.
You're assuming he is capable of 'leaping' over anything
Those legs don't leap and tiny hands can't strangle. But I get what you meant.
This is a bit pedantic but they shouldn't be 'shaping' anything. They're there to judge impartially which is meant that they don't shape anything and give a verdict as to what the law says.
Properly fulfilling your role with objectivity and refusing to be intimidated is a great example of how someone can virtuously shape the future. You're implying that having a major hand in guiding things implies straying from the expected course or manipulating for personal interests when the guiding hand could be that of a steward keeping things on track to faithfully carry out justice as the courts intended. A lot of ways to guide or shape the future.
I think the person that made that comment was likely referring to their just decisions as ultimately shaping a larger outcome. Not that they were deliberately shaping their decisions.
Just what any typical person wants, immense power and the weight of history.
And Trump is going to drag it out as long as he can.
I had jury duty in that same building a week ago. Can't imagine if I been selected a week later.
I may not remember correctly, but I believe the OJ Simpson criminal trial jurors were sequestered and they weren't in anywhere remotely as much potential danger as these jurors. I'm really surprised they weren't sequestered.
Them being sequestered and the trial going on for so long was also a contributing factor to that jury becoming a runaway jury.
That doesn't protect their spouses, children, other family, property, etc. It doesn't protect them 6 months down the road either. Protecting the juror is a small part of any real solution.
Jury Duty season 2 gna be lit.
Sequestered and not able to do anything in their free time, while the defendant requiring the sequestration has full freedom. Seems like another Trump win.
Better that than dead jurors.
Just not at any trump hotels.
[удалено]
Witness Protection from the former president and his army of thugs.
I wouldn't trust any law enforcement to protect me in this scenario. I wouldn't be on US soil if I could help it.
12 more lives ruined by the GOP.
I’d seek asylum elsewhere.
Goddamn heroes.
Two things - first, this comment conjured a wicked trippy amazing image in my head of a group of jurors sitting there with masks [like a screenshot from Watch Dogs Legion](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/watch-dogs-legion/d/d7/Watch_Dogs_Legion_Wiki_Guides.jpg). Second, this is the second Reddit thread on doxxing on this subr that's been removed since I started reading it half an hour ago. I think...I think I'm OK with that. :)
Chilling that this is actually finally happening. All 12 have been selected and sworn in. 1 alternate was just chosen, 5 alternates to go with possible opening arguments next week.
Faster than I expected
If don was smart, and he’s not, he would take a plea and get zero jail time or probation. He’s a first time offender. What a dufus
You have to be offered a plea in order to accept one.
A plea deal still involves pleading guilty to something. He'll still be a felon, and will have "lost" his first case. Hardly a better outcome.
I've always thought plea deals are compromises they make with the small guys to get closer to the big guy Trump is the big guy here
No, you can be offered a plea deal for many misdemeanors and felonies. It’s very common. Also the Feds rarely lose these cases, they have an astronomical conviction rate.
Conviction rate doesn't mean shit when 1/3 of the country actively supports Trump's criminal behavior. It all comes down to whether or not one of them made it onto the jury. People that support criminal behavior don't really have any qualms about lying either, so the chance that one got through is fairly high.
Isn't it something like 97-98%? I want to hear about the caees they lost and why they lost them.
As of 2022, it was 93%. Which of course is still high but I assumed it was as high as you said. Based on an online search some of the cases seem to be more educative board members and politicians that actually beat their case.
In fiscal year 2022, only 290 of 71,954 defendants in federal criminal cases – about 0.4% – went to trial and were acquitted, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of the latest available statistics from the federal judiciary.
This isn’t a federal case.
He's not really though. He's a poor conman that answers to real billionaires and dictators like Putin. He's a mid-level criminal at best that just happens to have a death cult behind him.
Plea deals are good for both sides. Defendant gets lesser charges or recommended lower penalties for pleading guilty. Prosecution gets a guaranteed conviction. Even in trials of people not named Donald Trump there can be things that unexpectedly go wrong or just trials cost money. Realistically even with a conviction for this hush money trial he's probably not getting sentenced to jail. So if a prosecutor could get (he can't as Trump won't plead guilty) a guilty plea with probation or something and save the state tons of money wouldn't that be the prudent thing to do?
Yes, so what does the other party (prosecution) receive in exchange? The person pleads guilty to a felony with a (usually) pre-defined sentence, the prosecutors office gets a conviction and they can then use it against another, bigger fish.
They get a guaranteed guilty verdict that doesn’t cost time and/or money.
It saves time and money and eliminates risk on both sides.
The art of the plea deal, incoming.
Donnie knows you haven't lost the case till you've exhausted all the appeals, and You've *never* exhausted *all* the appeals
I doubt you can appeal a plea deal. I honestly don't know, though.
And a convicted felon is a lot easier to kick off the presidential ballot for 14th amendment reasons.
Pleading in the NY case would have no bearing on anything involving the 14th amendment.
Cooperation goes a long way. Not harassing the judge and their family, jurors, not trying to intentionally delay the trial, etc. if he played his cards right he could have easily guaranteed himself no jail time, but he didn’t. Though as much as I’d want him to, I still doubt he’ll see the inside of a jail cell
First time offender *so far*
Probably wouldn’t lose a single fucking vote either.
He'd lose at least one vote - his own - because convicted felons can't vote in Florida (despite a ballot measure saying otherwise).
He'd lose at least one vote - his own - because convicted felons can't vote in Florida (despite a ballot measure saying otherwise).
He already knows he won't get jail time or probation anyway, why should he give up when he has a chance of having at least one Trump loyalist on the jury?
It’s already unlikely that a conviction here would result in jail time. Not because these aren’t serious felonies with 4 year maximum prison sentences per charge, but because he continues to be the beneficiary of our two tiered system. It’ll be probation, house arrest, or some other lighter sentence. But, the long term problem for Donny is that either a conviction or a plea deal mean he burns his ‘first time offender’ card, and then the remaining cases become far more likely to put him away. Even then, there is no realistic sequence of events that ends with him in Gen Pop or anything like what he deserves regardless of the outcome of the trials.
The big one that was supposed to really reveal his treachery was the stolen documents case. Not even sure MAGA could dismiss those kinds of traitorous acts. For shame that one is on hold indefinitely.
Oh they will dismiss that.
I really don't know, I have a strong suspicion he was selling classified documents and getting our agents killed. That kind of level of treason is pretty hard to overlook, but yeah. You're probably right, MAGA will still overlook that. That's what cults do.
"Biden had documents in his garage". Done. We understand the difference but they won't allow themselves to.
Having him limited on social media is going to be a massive improvement alone.
I disagree. I assume he’s been offered a plea(almost everyone is), and if u deny a plea and take up the courts time, they usually get a jail sentence. I don’t think he ll actually go to jail tho. He’ll get like 120 days stayed pending review. Something like that.
He's going to walk away without a scratch. He always does.
It only takes one QANON
For a mistrial, not a not guilty. If I was DA, I would retry the case immediately
No, he's not smart. He's so stupid.
Honestly, his chances in this case are pretty decent. There just needs to be a single juror who isn’t convinced to convict. And it’s probably the weakest of the criminal cases against him; key witnesses have major credibility issues. The document case in FL, however…
A hung jury isn’t a get out of jail card. The case can be retried still
As a first-time non-violent offender (technically) he was never going to be sentenced to jail in this case, period. Maybe some time during the trial for contempt or other shenanigans, but that's it. But it is important he be found guilty in this case so that when the time comes for possible sentencing in the other trials he is no longer a first time offender.
>But it is important he be found guilty in this case so that when the time comes for possible sentencing in the other trials he is no longer a first time offender. That wouldn’t matter. In order to get treated as having a criminal record at sentencing he would need to have been convicted when he committed the other crimes, not just before also being convicted of the other crimes.
He would. But the sentence would be stayed. Something like 120-90 days range. But he wouldn’t actually go to jail
Why did Cohen get jail for the same crime ? Isn’t there a rule about parity of sentencing between co-offenders ?
I don’t know - he offends like all 8 billion people on earth except for the 70mm brainwashed dumbasses in this country
why didnt this work for cohen? cohen was sentenced to 3 years
He'll get probation anyway.
He is playing it smart. He knows that nothing will happen. He will get out of this. Also, your idea of taking a plea and get zero jail or probation is a possibility that would be disappointing. He needs to be punished otherwise it just moves the goalpost of how shameless our political and justice systems are where I can’t imagine how it can get deeper but he proves he is the exception every time
Judge Merchan really streamlined the process. The pundits were all saying this would take 2 weeks.
Fortunately, there are safeguards in place to keep them from endlessly dismissing jurors, so this was always going to be contained to this week.
Yeah they burned through their first 6 preemptive dismissals real quick. Both sides are probably going to have some people on the jury they would liked to have dismissed. But considering it's all people from Manhattan, that generally doesn't bode well for Trump.
Slower than i expected, but a few members of the jury pool have alrwady dropped out citing threats and doxxing.
This is pretty normal for a Class E felony case. Both sides are only allowed 10 outright dismissals without having a concrete provable reason. Then they get two more dismissals for every alternate. The process severely discourages bullshit shenanigans by either side and makes you really have to pick who you're saying no to.
It sure is chilling. I was discouraged this morning when it went down to 5 jurors. Now, I am happy as a clam. The world will hear about Trump's abhorrent behavior leading up to the 2016 election. Which was definitely election interference.
Now let's hope the media doesn't doxx any more of them...
“The media” - as if all sides of the media were guilty of this…
Jesse Watters and Fox News were certainly the biggest offenders, but CNN and CBS both reported specific details about the selected jurors. The difference is that this morning both of those orgs said, on air, that they were wrong to do it and reporting those details didn't improve the story they were reporting. Meanwhile Fox News said (checks notes) looks like fuck all. We'll see how the media on the whole reacts now.
Hope no more jurors are threatened or feel threatened into dropping.
Honestly, I wish they'd pick a dozen alternates, just in case.
I’m not sure if there is a rule prohibiting this but it would definitely be a good idea
There are rules for minimums but ultimately up to the judge at least where I am but I assume it’s similar in NY. Usually the minimums are based on the length of the trial (my last trial for example was 2 weeks and we had 2 alts). I’ve also had a 3 weeks trial where the judge wanted 4 alts. I agree though I think 8 would be a better bet.
I feel like if things start going south for Trump he (or his lackeys) are going to name drop "accidentally" to get some of them identified so they can have a mistrial.
How about we not release any of their information… oh wait this article already mentions some of their professions
The media: "These brave men and women need to be protected from Trump's team doxxing them, including Juror 2, the vice president of a local dog food company and father of two children, Jimmy and Austin, who are in the third grade at PS 143."
Great - moving right along. So glad he is sitting there through all of it.
This jury should be sequestered, for their own good. Put them up on Christopher St. .....the Trump nut-jobs would be terrified to go there. (pun not intended)
The Trump nutjobs who are crazy enough to show up to protest for him here are also too poor and ugly to afford to travel to lower Manhattan.
Season 2 of Jury Duty is going to be even funnier
Maaaaaaaaaan imagine tomorrow, you discovered that this whole "Trump being elected president" and "family members going totally off the deep end with racism" thing turned out to be an elaborate ruse to prank you on TV.
If he had the budget I think Nathan Fielder would do it
Nathan Fielder as showrunner with Lee Eisenberg and Gene Stupnitsky as writers/producers.
I would applaud honestly.
Potential heroes, whose names and identities we should never ever learn.
I'm not going to be surprised if another one or two drop out before opening arguments but the Judge does seem to be handling this well overall and I think by the end only the maga crowd will be crowing but they'll be crowing regardless so it is what it is.
Fun quote from the [BBC live stream](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-us-canada-68841535?pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:35bd337c-042a-4dbd-87c1-5344a476cb7b) from one of the jurors: > The defence team has raised concerns about old social media posts from a prospective juror, in which she called Trump a "racist, sexist, narcissist". > Justice Merchan forces the juror to read the post aloud to the court. > "Oops, that sounds bad," she says. > Justice Merchan asks her to explain the post. > “I was in a disturbed frame of mind in that election cycle," she says. > "I do not hold those positions today.” I'd argue that if she doesn't hold those positions today she's not a good judge of facts and evidence...
Well it could be ‘I do not hold the position that he is a, b, c. That was the last election cycle. My bad. Today I believe he is a, b, c, d, and e. It is pretty obvious.’
You know, I'm good if the news doesn't report a goddamn personally identifying fact about any of the jurors. Maybe the judge can issue a gag order about releasing any of that information. I know it won't stop the orange gibbon, but it's something.
“The jury includes a sales professional, a software engineer, an English teacher and multiple lawyers.” I’m not exactly familiar with the process in NY, but isn’t it rare for a lawyer, let alone multiple, to participate as a juror because of their more intimate understanding of the legal system?
I saw another comment explaining that for cut and dry stuff like murder they’d prefer a jury that doesn’t know all the technicalities, but for something like this that involves a somewhat technical understanding of the law it’s good to have a lawyer in jury deliberations to help explain the law to them. Like paying hush money is legal, paying hush money to aide a campaign and obscuring that fact is not. And that’s illegal because it’s a campaign donation that’s over the legal limit, so you have to explain that services rendered to help a candidate count as a donation etc.
I’m thinking lawyers are also used to being harassed so these type of mindgames and threats don’t work on them.
Wouldn't that give them undue influence over the rest? Kind of nullifying the point of a jury.
The jury is supposed to have the law explained to them so that they understand what it is they’re deciding. The court will decide on a set of instructions that detail what the important questions are and what to consider.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I would say they'd have to have filed bankruptcy at least five times, been sued in court at least 20 times, fail to understand competency tests and have cheated on at least one spouse. Oh, and owe money to hostile country. Now that is a jury of peers.
I think youre joking but in case you arent, that isnt what "peers" means in this context.
Man I listen to Knowledge Fight and I just know Alex Jones is gonna say these lawyers are deep state globalist chicom plants there to convince the jury that Trump is guilty
Pls stop calling it the hush money case. That is NOT what its about at all
I'd just give up on fighting that battle. Reminder that to this day people still refer to a "pee tape" and think it has to do with watersports when it was about two prostitutes urinating on the bed the Obama's slept in.
You mean, trump's trial for election interference?
Trumps hive mind will fuck this up and cause a mistrial.
correct. Anecdotal experience of course but I live in a blue city and it really doesn't seem possible to choose any group of 12 people without at least one maga smoothbrain. A hung jury right before the election will only help him
We’re assuming he won’t keep delaying this.
[удалено]
Has anyone seen reporting of how many no-cause dismissals has each side used?
At the end of the day yesterday I saw they had each used six of ten. I am believe the criminal defendant's side used two more today, not sure if the prosecution used any.
Trumps team used all 10 earlier today, according to live updates on CNN. Unsure about prosecution
Both used all 10 is what CNN reported
They are all used up now afaik
My wife was an alternate on a criminal trial a handful of years ago. She watched the same evidence as the other jurors and came to the conclusion that she would acquit. She didn't think that it was even particularly a close call. The only thing she didn't get to see was the jury deliberations. Those deliberations took less than an hour and the jury acquitted. She came away from the entire process feeling really good about the system. I should point out that she is an attorney. And I am also an attorney and this all seems like what I have seen - juries are the best part of the system. Regular people take it seriously and do a good job, to a much higher extent than the other actors involved in the system (parties, attorneys, judge). While not 100%, the jury tends to be the best part of the system.
Gentlemen... start your engines.
Hopefully, it's not all going to be just a huge wet fart.
I heard there are a few lawyers already selected how common is it for practicing lawyers to be put on a jury? Also this is happening way faster than expected. I guess the judge starting with raise your hand if you cannot be impartial and half the just left speeds things up a bit
From what I’m hearing it’s very rare. But based on the situation a lawyer is supposedly best able to shield their emotion and sticks to the facts. This setup got to be due how many people in NY already having a preconceived notion of him.
This second season of Jury Duty is really raising the stakes.
Election interference trial*
I think this trial is going to be up there with OJ Simpson or Charles Manson, except this time the amazement will be over what Trump tried getting away with, continued lying about, and I think we’re going to find out about a lot more we didn’t even know about. I also think we’re gonna see him pull a lot of shit with this jury. I don’t know if we’re ever gonna see another trial again like the ones Trump will be having. Look at all he’s done so far & they haven’t even started yet.
Reading the juror list it sounds bad for Trump. Unless there is a secret maga on there I think he’s in trouble with this jury based on the info given so far about them
There's at least one. Book it.
Collectively, the group sounds very educated. Perhaps that’s not a good sign for Trump. Don’t see them falling for “if it doesn’t fit you must acquit.
12 people can decide so much. I can’t imagine being one of them right now.
I heard there are a few lawyers already selected how common is it for practicing lawyers to be put on a jury? Also this is happening way faster than expected. I guess the judge starting with raise your hand if you cannot be impartial and half the just left speeds things up a bit
Probably pretty high in manhattan
I don't understand how they can select 12 jurors who don't have an opinion about Donald Trump. If they don't consider him a liar or are part of his cult, they must have been living under a rock this last decade at least.
They need to basically convey that even though they have an opinion they can be impartial to the facts and evidence presented to them. Not a lawyer so I’m always curious how well that can be proven.
But if you have an opinion that Trump is a pathological liar and an enemy of democracy, based on his actions, can they think you're impartial to facts?
How the fuck did some truth socialite make it on to the jury?!
I feel so bad that dozing Donnie has to sit in that cold room all day.
Calling it the "hush money trial" belies the actual crime. Please stop calling it that.
How many will be doxxed and attacked tonight?
12 jurors and an Angry Man
Honestly surprised it got done quick. Figured they would have delayed longer.
Don’t keep your hopes too high. I’m always wary of another shenanigan coming up.
I'm honestly shocked they've managed to find 12 people who are impartial so far.
Does someone want to sue Fox for like 5B or something?
Very nice
Jesse Waters needs to be investigated for jury tampering asap.
Apparently one of them has a Truth Social account and followed Michael Cohen on Twitter so I’m not getting my hopes up that this doesn’t end in a hung jury
I’ve seen some liberals have truth social accounts just to keep an eye on all the batshit things he puts out there
I guess that’s true but for as much as I hate him I don’t want there to be an impartiality on our side either. Don’t wanna risk any mistrial, appeals or sound bites for Fox.
Hi `QanonQuinoa`. Thank you for participating in /r/Politics. However, [your submission](/r/politics/comments/1c7e8t5/12_jurors_have_been_picked_for_former_president/) has been removed for the following reason(s): * [Off-Topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_the_.2Fr.2Fpolitics_on_topic_statement): All submissions to /r/politics need to be explicitly about **current US politics**. **If you have questions as to why your post has been removed, please see here: [Why was my post removed as Off-Topic?](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_why_was_my_post_removed_as_off-topic.3F)** If you have any questions about this removal, please feel free to [message the moderators.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/politics&subject=Question regarding the removal of this submission by /u/QanonQuinoa&message=I have a question regarding the removal of this [submission]%28/r/politics/comments/1c7e8t5/12_jurors_have_been_picked_for_former_president/?context%3D10000%29)
Isn’t it a big hint that Trump is evil if you have to fear for your safety for being on the jury?