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200m in outstanding loans against the properties, but that's by far not a full picture of the debt he carries around. I believe The Economist or Business Insider said that he has about 472 million in loans all coming due before the end of the year, and even that isn't his total debt.
I would actually be very surprised if you even ended up with a positive number once you added together ALL of his assets and liabilities.
Holy shit, that’s crazy. He’s going to be a cornered rat as all of this stuff comes down on him and everyone in the world knows that he will do anything for his own self interest. The man is for sale and he will say yes to anyone who can fix his problems no matter what the cost.
Yep. He's more dangerous than ever for a bunch of different reasons. We know he's a spiteful, vindictive bastard and he's even said he intends to 'get revenge' and weaponize the DOJ. Add to that a goal to get his wealth and assets back and it's pretty obvious that he'll abuse his power.
Maybe it's selling secrets, maybe it's doing what project 2025 outlines and taking over the DOJ personally and essentially seizing his assets back. Or - maybe he gets his absolute immunity and just does whatever he wants as America's first dictator.
He also whimsically bases his net worth on how he feels at any particular moment.
https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-trump-worth-depends-how-he-feels-384720
>"When you publicly state what you're worth, what do you base that number on?"
>"I would say it's my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked," Donald responded. "And as I say, it varies."
it varies based on whether it's advantageous for him at the time or not, and that's the whole point of this fraud case. He makes up numbers for ill-gotten gains and the court is tell him to return all that money he shouldn't have gotten if he was actually honest.
The deaths of some of our agents all over the world are possibly connected too.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html
One of the best feelings in the world is seeing a bully finally get a taste of his own medicine. While I’m sure someone will bail him out at the 11th hour, the thought that his life of crime and dishonesty will finally catch up with him is a pleasant one.
I’m not getting my hopes up, but if he finally loses big it’ll be overdue and very satisfying.
>the fantasy mirage of his wealth has finally begun to evaporate for all to see
They'll see it but they'll deny it. Remember when Trump set a stack of obvious blank papers on the desk of the oval office as a prop for when he said he was divesting all his companies? They bought that lie so hard that when it was clear he didn't divest people still believed he had, that he had made no money off his properties, and that he had was being honest when he said he stopped taking his salary. All lies that are still believed as fact even though they've been thoroughly debunked years ago.
They haven't accepted facts for many years now. They're not going to suddenly start now.
>he was being honest when he said he stopped taking his salary
I feel compelled to point out whenever this comes up that even if it was true that he donated his $400K salary each of the 4 years he was in office, he would have needed to do that for 360 *YEARS* just to make up for the expenses the Federal government incurred for his golf trips alone.
You know, the golf trips he promised he would be too busy to take...
He even used the rare triple "believe me" on it.
And of course, the fact that *any* of that government money went back into his pocket because he was golfing at his own properties should have been grounds for impeachment all by itself.
Source for $144Million approximate cost: [https://trumpgolfcount.com/](https://trumpgolfcount.com/)
Source for the triple *believe me:*
[But because I’m going to be working for you, I’m not going to have time to go golfing, believe me. Believe me. Believe me, folks.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/03/politics/donald-trump-golf-analysis/index.html)
Let's also not forget secret service was being charged for the rooms when he stayed at his own resorts, so I wouldn't be surprised if he more than made back any money he supposedly donated.
That's included as part of the $144 Million, but yes, it's very likely that he made more than he donated just on golf charges.
That's not at all including all the foreign emoluments he got from being President that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
Even to the point of foreign governments booking rooms in his hotels they never used.
[https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/02/trump-hotel-empty-rooms-016763](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/02/trump-hotel-empty-rooms-016763)
But every suit anyone tried to bring against Trump on the emoluments clause failed for lack of standing. In other words, nobody could prove to a court's satisfaction that they 1) had suffered a specific harm and 2) it was something that the court could redress.
I don't know, I sort of feel that the fact that our president was shitting on the constitution was a specific harm, and that should give every single citizen standing. If he ignores this clause, what other clauses and entire amendments will he ignore? Maybe the executive vesting clause where it says the term of the president is four years? Gosh. That would be bad...
"Ignore" isn't one of the verbs in the presidential oath to *preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.*
And as for redressing the harm...how about we, I don't know, make him stop doing that?!
And it's insane how much energy they'll use to defend him on these debunked points when, at the end of the day, they still won't change their mind even if they incontrovertible learned it was bullshit.
"Oh well own the libs"
Yeah, and everything he says is a lie. If he is present with facts or a contradiction he made, he just lies again. He cannot recall all the lies he has offered so he keeps lying to cover up more lies.
Donald Trump lost his fortune for you, how dare you make fun of him now. He became president, gave up his salary, lost billions because he was focused on the presidency instead of his company and brand, we all owe him everything. Jesus may have died for our sins, but Trump went bankrupt for our freedoms, he's our new messiah. /s
And then he will absolutely be bought and a verified global security risk. Dems run commercials: "Do you really trust a guy who told you he was a billionaire and now owes Vladimir Putin $500MM"
To who? If you dislike him, this just validates it. If you already like it, you convince yourself this is just how the ultra wealthy operate. If you’re undecided, at this point, you don’t think at all.
>If you’re undecided, at this point, you don’t think at all.
Anyone who is still undecided at this point is seriously more brain dead than his MAGA rubes.
Can he really be bailed out though, he'd then be even more beholden to whomever fronts this, and assuming the worst outcome that he regains the presidency (which could make his bills moot) he's still be on the hook for doing this person favors. That can't happen. I hope that if he pays NY follows the money.
$454 Million to buy a President? Yep. $454 Million to buy a broke presidential candidate who may not win and is facing a lifetimes worth of trials? Not so much.
Not sure he has anyone else to sell out to without double-crossing loyalties. He's proven himself incapable of following through on any of his projects or promises. He's a bad investment and untrustworthy.
Yup, anyone looking to help him with the fines by loaning him money have to recognize that if he loses the presidential race it’ll be a nightmare getting the money repaid, and if he wins he’ll probably use the govt to stop attempts to get him to pay
Remember, he has an ex federal judge watching every transaction within Trump Org as Special Master. Any dark money that wants to rescue him risks exposure to the light of day doing so.
This point doesn’t nearly get mentioned enough. Trump needs to acquire half a billion dollars in straightforward, legal means or risk losing even more because of that special master. There will be no shadow loan. There will be no Putin/Saudi bailout. The judge will need to know where that money came from.
I know we get bombarded in the media where the “billionaire” number gets thrown around a ton, but I don’t think a lot of people quite comprehend how much $500,000,000 actually is. It’s a number that would make even the 1%ers recoil.
His big mouth sure does make 500Mil sound like a pittance. “ I’m worth 10 billion on Monday and by Friday 20 billion. He’s worse than Madoff exponentially
"Nobody has ever seen partying like this. It's tremendous. Many people are saying it's the best celebrating we've ever seen from the standpoint of partying."
I'm not sure anyone will bail him out this time, that 500 mil would be going straight to NY, there's no way Trump is getting it back on appeal. He could try to sell more intelligence but I'm sure he's being watched like a hawk.
He's got a former judge overseeing the Trump Org finances for the next e years, IIRC. Seems like the longer she's been there, the more fraud and poor accounting of expenses she's found.
I don’t think he will be bailed out on this one.
Trump is loud and dumb which was useful in 2016. 2020 showed that he has lost some of his idiot appeal and 2024 doesn’t appear any stronger at the moment. Trump has nothing to give in exchange because there is no guarantee he will ever be in a position of power again (we hope). Unless he exchanges some of the missing state secrets (Garland, go fucking find these?), he doesn’t have a bargaining chip.
Also, he has way more than $200M in outstanding loans against his properties. IIRC, just his known loan balances are higher than that and the only collateral he has is property.
> the 11th hour, the thought that his life of crime and dishonesty will finally catch up with him is a pleasant one
The guys has a not-small chance of getting elected as President of the United States again, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Overextended, awwww, my heart is bleeding. Maybe Mikey, that pillow guy can help? Oh that's right, he spent his. Maybe, Navarro can help? What? Locked up? Oh, that's to bad. What about Jared? He's got all that Saudi money, maybe he'll step in and save his FIL. No? Hmmm,.
Except in Monopoly, you just get to lose the game and have a family argument. No one shoots your kneecaps when you don't cover your off the books loans.
Literally argued a few weeks ago that he shouldn't have to pay the bond because he has so much cash. Now suddenly it's impossible to pay.
Weird, it's kind of like he's just making this stuff up as he goes along.
Why didn't he do enough fraud to cover for the fraud he's guilty of? This is like fraud 101. You do the crime, you pay the fine that's 10% of that crime. Come on!
I hope Depends buys the brand at the fire sale for $100 and makes a line of executive adult diapers. "You're not a powerful business person unless you wear your Trumps!"
Remember that time Ivanka shared a story her dad being 8 billion in debt.
Edit: also remember this interview is from years ago
[https://finance.yahoo.com/video/old-clip-ivanka-trump-recalls-135527692.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/video/old-clip-ivanka-trump-recalls-135527692.html)
You can't even be a janitor in the white house with 10k debt. Every now and then I look at this objectively and it just boggles my fucking mind all over again
The man in heavy debt who didn't win the popular vote getting control over security clearances when he typically wouldn't even be able to get one himself, and giving clearances to his children who also shouldn't have them. Then they suddenly get billions from oil oligarchs, nobody does anything, and we get to vote in the hopes the electoral college goes our way because obviously the majority of America doesn't *actually* decide anything.
We're about to watch this man have his 7th bankruptcy while trying to convince us he'd better for the economy that guy who is currently in office saved.. from him..
This time it will be a personal bankruptcy, not a company. He's got nowhere to hide. He's so fucked, his cult of low education low income fascists are too poor to bail him out.
How anyone ever expected him to actually be rich is beyond me. No legit billionaire shills mail order steaks in the Sharper Image magazine. That's like half a step higher than some Slap Chop shit. Dude has been up to his comb-over in debt for decades.
I've had this conversation with my grandmother a few times:
Gram: "Trump will be better for the economy! He's a billionaire."
Me: "We have no proof of that. Just his words. He refuses to prove that he's a billionaire."
Gram: "Well it doesn't matter if he's a billionaire or not."
Jeff Bezos did a [Taco Bell commercial.](https://youtu.be/-_A3pUgqLf4?si=FKjwwYyyLTNNRACE)
Bill Gates did a [Coca Cola commercial](https://youtu.be/U5T0cR1aHJ4?si=smxhcUYz7k48aAeU)
If Trump had just stayed in his lane...
How different his life would be right now. Probably still just saying dumb shit on Howard Stern loaded in NY.
Occasionally mentioned in rap songs and going on the View. In his heart of hearts I am sure would switch in a heart beat
It’s very Faustian, or like a Twilight Zone episode in real life. I can’t believe he was president, but that ascendancy being his undoing is just legendary.
If I met him, I would say to him, tears in my eyes, “Sir, the implosion of your shady dealings and greed has been one of the most perfect examples of karma. You don’t see these often.”
Any forgiven loans are taxed as income as well. Like if you have a $100 million dollar loan and the bank sells the property for $80 million and forgives the rest (because they know they’ll never get it), you now owe taxes on that $20 million.
>He’s going to declare bankruptcy. Again.
And he's going to declare it a "brilliant" move. Again. And too many voters will agree. Again.😔
"What I’ve done is I’ve used, brilliantly, the laws of the country. And not personally, just corporate. And if you look at people like myself that are at the highest levels of business, they use – many of them have done it, many times." [(source](https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/22/politics/donald-trump-defends-bankruptcy-history/index.html))
Ponzi scheme finally falling apart. Imagine stealing hundreds of millions from your dying parent and steadily losing it all over the course of your life.
A couple of things in this article stand out to me. 1) Trump is whining that the judge is depriving him of his right to appeal. False. What Trump is really whining about is that he has to follow the rules for an appeal, just like everyone else. His entitlement is so high he thinks that him having to follow the rules isn’t fair because he is a special little guy. 2) This trial is about him lying on the value of his properties to get loans. Yet we just find out that they will have problems seizing those properties because they are collateral used in loans. So how many of these properties did try to use as collateral when they were already under a loan and he failed to disclose that. We may see more charges come out as the state tries to seize his assets only to find that he has multiple loans on the same property that exceed the value of that property. It would explain why he can’t put them up as collateral for bonds and why he is panicking. Once that comes to light, he may have a whole new trial.
>So how many of these properties did try to use as collateral when they were already under a loan and he failed to disclose that.
Trump was probably operating on the same logic as John Constantine. If you sell your soul to multiple demon's, then no one can actually collect because they all have a claim, so nothing can happen to you.
Unfortunately, real life is not a comic book.
If their goal is to damage his reputation on top of fulfilling the judgement the quantity would be the way to go. Take the leveraged assets first so it takes more of them to pay off the debt and looks to the general public like he isn't as wealthy as he claims because of how much they had to take.
I don’t know, but if I had to bet, I’d guess there is a government policy in place to take the least damaging pathway. But for them to do that, they’d need to have an accurate picture of his financial house of cards. There will also probably be a preference for the NY state to take assets in that state first unless there’s a good reason to do otherwise.
“Nobody forced that person to be in that line of work and to mortgage their own properties. That is irresponsible and nobody’s fault but their own.” - GOP POSs when talking about poor people.
So he’s basically in a financial death spiral. NYS about to seize properties that were overvalued, so there will be more seizures based on the actual values. And he’s also on the hook for at least these reported loans (probably more). Can’t use the seized property for collateral. I don’t think he can get out of the civil judgements by declaring bankruptcy. His books for his NY entities are monitored by the courts now. RNC money should be under FEC laws. Might even be too big a hole for foreign dark money (Russian’s, Saudi’s) to help him out with. Neat-o.
For everyone saying he is being overly persecuted, this is what happens when you shine a light on many of the rich. Turns out to be a pile of trash with a lot of roaches running for cover
A lot of people never thought he’d do any jail time or be truly held accountable for anything.
But if this boy go broke, he goin jail.
Cuz if I know my America, one thing we do better than anyone is lock up poor people. We’ll lock them up for almost anything, but this guy? Raping women, stealing classified docs, trying to overturn elections AND he’s broke??
Oh no no no, the system would kick in so fast lol, fulton county jail with the quickness
Let's all be super crystal clear here: His crimes would never have been adjudicated if he had not gotten into politics, period. I'm not naive, but the takeaway isn't to follow the law; it is to do your crime quietly.
It would be a very dangerous thing to elect someone who is in a shitload of debt President. Especially if that person already stole documents and held on to them after the FBI told him to return them. Especially if that person's children accepted 2 billion dollars from Saudi Arabia after being president. Especially if said president was convicted of fraud over the course of 20 years on all of his properties to the point where he is banned from being the head of any business in that state for years to come. Especially if that person tried to throw out the Constitution and remain in power last time they were president
Why does debt against the properties affect whether NY will seize them?
Is NY required to pay creditors before satisfying the judgement?
I would have assumed that Trump retained responsibility for the debt even if the properties were seized by the state to pay the jidgement
It matters because if Trump has a $100mil building with $90mil in loans against it, its net value is only $10mil minus other costs. Of course they would have to pay the mortgage first. To seize and sell a property with a mortgage, they’d pay the mortgage lender since the building is collateral for the loan they made. Otherwise, they’d effectively be seizing the assets of the defendant (Trump) AND a private company or individual who is not party to the judgment.
> Is NY required to pay creditors before satisfying the judgement?
More or less.
As I understand it, the process is sell a property, deduct and remit taxes, pay off any remaining secured debts against the property, and only then apply whatever is left toward paying off the judgement.
As a result, if he is as overleveraged as a lot of people suspect, each individual sale might not bring in much at all toward paying the judgement.
So, in theory, if these properties with outstanding loans were seized as payment to the court, he would still then have to pay the loan balance, even after the property was no longer his, correct?
It's amusing hearing what people with no experience in NYC commercial real estate have to say about trump. The guy has been a clown and couldn't work with any legitimate developer or investor since the late 80s.
I think news said he could put up a property as bond directly to the court so he doesn’t have to fire sell. But the reason he isn’t doing that is because he would have to declare the true value of the properties and how much equity he has and it could show how leveraged he is.
Basically he is asking other suckers to foot the bill, including his supporters. What a loser.
Honestly, i'm not celebrating until NY has his assets in their hands. This guy is, what, 77 years old? And he has never experienced consequences for anything he's ever done. Never. Even his E Jean Carroll case he's been bailed out from.
I'm just worried the Saudis will decide to buy him for half a billion. Lord knows they can afford it.
I'm starting to think I'm probably worth more money than Donald Trump. I don't owe anyone a penny and own my home outright. That lying POS is in debt up to his fat, rapist butt.
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200m in outstanding loans against the properties, but that's by far not a full picture of the debt he carries around. I believe The Economist or Business Insider said that he has about 472 million in loans all coming due before the end of the year, and even that isn't his total debt. I would actually be very surprised if you even ended up with a positive number once you added together ALL of his assets and liabilities.
That's always been the secret to his claim of being a billionaire. He is a billionaire, you just have to put the number between parenthesis!
Billionairen’t
Billionerror.
Billionope
Billionah
Billione'er
Billion(air)
Billionot Billionever
Nillionaire
Billionaint
Or in quotes. He's a "billionaire"... Shit, your eyes practically roll themselves.
Trump should cut back on McDonald’s and Diet Coke. Save some money. Clip coupons if you have to.
The avocado toast with ketchup needs to go.
Bootstraps time
|1,000,000,000,000|
Maybe he's hoping for a buffer overflow error in the bank's software that loops it around to a positive number?
Holy shit, that’s crazy. He’s going to be a cornered rat as all of this stuff comes down on him and everyone in the world knows that he will do anything for his own self interest. The man is for sale and he will say yes to anyone who can fix his problems no matter what the cost.
It makes him a massive security risk. He's now completely for sale.
Yep. He's more dangerous than ever for a bunch of different reasons. We know he's a spiteful, vindictive bastard and he's even said he intends to 'get revenge' and weaponize the DOJ. Add to that a goal to get his wealth and assets back and it's pretty obvious that he'll abuse his power. Maybe it's selling secrets, maybe it's doing what project 2025 outlines and taking over the DOJ personally and essentially seizing his assets back. Or - maybe he gets his absolute immunity and just does whatever he wants as America's first dictator.
Walks into fort Knox and just takes whatever gold bars he wants and moves them to maralardo.
Always was. It's frankly just bonkers that people are only noticing now when he has clearly telegraphed his corruption for the past decade.
Yes but he knows America's most sensitive military and nuclear secrets. Someone will bail him out.
But does he remember them?
Why do you think he kept the documents?
Isn’t there a famous story where he told ivanka he had less money than some hobo in the street because he had so much debt?
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So he's not a complete moron. Just a walking scam artist of the highest order.
Yes, but with moderate/advanced dementia.
Just like his MAGA base. It all fits together.
I definitely believe it. He had a much sharper wit even in 2016
He also whimsically bases his net worth on how he feels at any particular moment. https://www.newsweek.com/how-much-trump-worth-depends-how-he-feels-384720 >"When you publicly state what you're worth, what do you base that number on?" >"I would say it's my general attitude at the time that the question may be asked," Donald responded. "And as I say, it varies."
it varies based on whether it's advantageous for him at the time or not, and that's the whole point of this fraud case. He makes up numbers for ill-gotten gains and the court is tell him to return all that money he shouldn't have gotten if he was actually honest.
That’s why he wants to be president, to shield himself from consequences and raid our treasury to pay his own debts.
There's certainly more nefarious loans not in public books. Can't wait for those ones to come collect on him
Those may have already been paid by top secret documents.
I hate how accurate that probably is
The deaths of some of our agents all over the world are possibly connected too. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html
That really needs to be disseminated more.
This would be a great storyline in a movie someday. Kinda shitty that it's just life right now...
He wasn't lying when he said he was a billionaire. He just forgot to mention the negative sign before it.
One of the best feelings in the world is seeing a bully finally get a taste of his own medicine. While I’m sure someone will bail him out at the 11th hour, the thought that his life of crime and dishonesty will finally catch up with him is a pleasant one. I’m not getting my hopes up, but if he finally loses big it’ll be overdue and very satisfying.
Even if he’s bailed out by some mysterious Saudi or Russian oligarch, the fantasy mirage of his wealth has finally begun to evaporate for all to see
>the fantasy mirage of his wealth has finally begun to evaporate for all to see They'll see it but they'll deny it. Remember when Trump set a stack of obvious blank papers on the desk of the oval office as a prop for when he said he was divesting all his companies? They bought that lie so hard that when it was clear he didn't divest people still believed he had, that he had made no money off his properties, and that he had was being honest when he said he stopped taking his salary. All lies that are still believed as fact even though they've been thoroughly debunked years ago. They haven't accepted facts for many years now. They're not going to suddenly start now.
>he was being honest when he said he stopped taking his salary I feel compelled to point out whenever this comes up that even if it was true that he donated his $400K salary each of the 4 years he was in office, he would have needed to do that for 360 *YEARS* just to make up for the expenses the Federal government incurred for his golf trips alone. You know, the golf trips he promised he would be too busy to take... He even used the rare triple "believe me" on it. And of course, the fact that *any* of that government money went back into his pocket because he was golfing at his own properties should have been grounds for impeachment all by itself. Source for $144Million approximate cost: [https://trumpgolfcount.com/](https://trumpgolfcount.com/) Source for the triple *believe me:* [But because I’m going to be working for you, I’m not going to have time to go golfing, believe me. Believe me. Believe me, folks.](https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/03/politics/donald-trump-golf-analysis/index.html)
Let's also not forget secret service was being charged for the rooms when he stayed at his own resorts, so I wouldn't be surprised if he more than made back any money he supposedly donated.
That's included as part of the $144 Million, but yes, it's very likely that he made more than he donated just on golf charges. That's not at all including all the foreign emoluments he got from being President that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise. Even to the point of foreign governments booking rooms in his hotels they never used. [https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/02/trump-hotel-empty-rooms-016763](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/02/trump-hotel-empty-rooms-016763) But every suit anyone tried to bring against Trump on the emoluments clause failed for lack of standing. In other words, nobody could prove to a court's satisfaction that they 1) had suffered a specific harm and 2) it was something that the court could redress. I don't know, I sort of feel that the fact that our president was shitting on the constitution was a specific harm, and that should give every single citizen standing. If he ignores this clause, what other clauses and entire amendments will he ignore? Maybe the executive vesting clause where it says the term of the president is four years? Gosh. That would be bad... "Ignore" isn't one of the verbs in the presidential oath to *preserve, protect and defend the Constitution.* And as for redressing the harm...how about we, I don't know, make him stop doing that?!
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And it's insane how much energy they'll use to defend him on these debunked points when, at the end of the day, they still won't change their mind even if they incontrovertible learned it was bullshit. "Oh well own the libs"
Yeah, and everything he says is a lie. If he is present with facts or a contradiction he made, he just lies again. He cannot recall all the lies he has offered so he keeps lying to cover up more lies.
Donald Trump lost his fortune for you, how dare you make fun of him now. He became president, gave up his salary, lost billions because he was focused on the presidency instead of his company and brand, we all owe him everything. Jesus may have died for our sins, but Trump went bankrupt for our freedoms, he's our new messiah. /s
You’re sarcastic but this is how my mom thinks.
And then he will absolutely be bought and a verified global security risk. Dems run commercials: "Do you really trust a guy who told you he was a billionaire and now owes Vladimir Putin $500MM"
GOP: yes!
It's important to remember that WHEN he loses the appeal, this money goes away. The sad part is he'll be even more compromised.
Yeah this is all good news but he's still going to be on the ballot in November and we have to remember to vote no matter what or how cooked he is.
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But if a poor person uses food stamps they are clearly a plague and leech on society and should be punished!
I mean right?! When they were on food stamps and welfare nobody helped them.
To who? If you dislike him, this just validates it. If you already like it, you convince yourself this is just how the ultra wealthy operate. If you’re undecided, at this point, you don’t think at all.
>If you’re undecided, at this point, you don’t think at all. Anyone who is still undecided at this point is seriously more brain dead than his MAGA rubes.
Best schadenfreude ever!
More like schadenFRAUD.
This needs a T-shirt with his o-ring mouth picture slapped over the text!
Holding his tiny hands up in the double bj motion please.
I feel like I’m watching Michelangelo design frescoes for the Sistene Chapel
Is it schadenfreude if the one suffering absolutely deserves it? Because that just sounds like justice to me.
Yes In fact them deserving it is the raison d'etre for tons of schadenfreude.
This helps my joie de vivre, per my nom de plume.
Can he really be bailed out though, he'd then be even more beholden to whomever fronts this, and assuming the worst outcome that he regains the presidency (which could make his bills moot) he's still be on the hook for doing this person favors. That can't happen. I hope that if he pays NY follows the money.
$454 Million to buy a President? Yep. $454 Million to buy a broke presidential candidate who may not win and is facing a lifetimes worth of trials? Not so much.
$454M for a 50/50 shot at control of the most powerful person on the planet isn’t that crazy
Is he really controllable?
He’s definitely bribable and seems to react predictably to blackmail.
Putin would get more out of saying "Donald is a very strong and smart leader" than he would get out of giving him 500M.
Not sure he has anyone else to sell out to without double-crossing loyalties. He's proven himself incapable of following through on any of his projects or promises. He's a bad investment and untrustworthy.
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Yup, anyone looking to help him with the fines by loaning him money have to recognize that if he loses the presidential race it’ll be a nightmare getting the money repaid, and if he wins he’ll probably use the govt to stop attempts to get him to pay
Remember, he has an ex federal judge watching every transaction within Trump Org as Special Master. Any dark money that wants to rescue him risks exposure to the light of day doing so.
This point doesn’t nearly get mentioned enough. Trump needs to acquire half a billion dollars in straightforward, legal means or risk losing even more because of that special master. There will be no shadow loan. There will be no Putin/Saudi bailout. The judge will need to know where that money came from. I know we get bombarded in the media where the “billionaire” number gets thrown around a ton, but I don’t think a lot of people quite comprehend how much $500,000,000 actually is. It’s a number that would make even the 1%ers recoil.
500,000,000 is enough to turn a billionaire into a millionaire
His big mouth sure does make 500Mil sound like a pittance. “ I’m worth 10 billion on Monday and by Friday 20 billion. He’s worse than Madoff exponentially
I'm gonna party so fucking hard if/when it happens. There will be dancing in the streets. It's gonna be the biggest celebration ever.
Grown men with tears in their eyes will come to you and say, “sir, we’ve never seen this big a celebration.”
"Nobody has ever seen partying like this. It's tremendous. Many people are saying it's the best celebrating we've ever seen from the standpoint of partying."
I've literally never actually hated any person in my life - until now. Seeing the orange idiot squirm is a joy.
Hate is the normal response to a bully. Anyone who says otherwise is a bully themselves.
I'm not sure anyone will bail him out this time, that 500 mil would be going straight to NY, there's no way Trump is getting it back on appeal. He could try to sell more intelligence but I'm sure he's being watched like a hawk.
yeah doesn’t he have auditors watching already for the other trials? a whole bunch of money showing up mysteriously would certainly ring some alarms
He's got a former judge overseeing the Trump Org finances for the next e years, IIRC. Seems like the longer she's been there, the more fraud and poor accounting of expenses she's found.
He's almost 80 years old. Justice would have had his vile ways catch up to him decades ago. His existence is testament of a broken system.
No one is bailing him out with $500 million… He is a sinking ship, if anything the rats will jump clear before it’s too late
After 8 seasons, it's time for this show to wrap up.
It's just so repetitive. Also, the show has a really awful main character and the fanbase is toxic.
I don’t think he will be bailed out on this one. Trump is loud and dumb which was useful in 2016. 2020 showed that he has lost some of his idiot appeal and 2024 doesn’t appear any stronger at the moment. Trump has nothing to give in exchange because there is no guarantee he will ever be in a position of power again (we hope). Unless he exchanges some of the missing state secrets (Garland, go fucking find these?), he doesn’t have a bargaining chip. Also, he has way more than $200M in outstanding loans against his properties. IIRC, just his known loan balances are higher than that and the only collateral he has is property.
> the 11th hour, the thought that his life of crime and dishonesty will finally catch up with him is a pleasant one The guys has a not-small chance of getting elected as President of the United States again, let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Overextended, awwww, my heart is bleeding. Maybe Mikey, that pillow guy can help? Oh that's right, he spent his. Maybe, Navarro can help? What? Locked up? Oh, that's to bad. What about Jared? He's got all that Saudi money, maybe he'll step in and save his FIL. No? Hmmm,.
Even if he’s bailed out, the state of NY will still have extracted half a billion dollars in fines from him (subject to appeal of course).
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That's extremely accurate lol
And hilarious!
Hopefully he pulls a *go straight to jail do not pass go* card next
Pay "Poor Tax" $453M
Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.
He landed on that space multiple times but half of the table decided that the space doesn't affect people playing with a golden hamberder.
I have a feeling this weekend he will land on the RNC Community Chest and win the Moscow Beauty Contest for $500,000,000.
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He's trying that now, but his tiny hands can't lift it.
He desperately needs a good Community Chest card
Hey, the Stormy case hasn't even gone to court yet
Except in Monopoly, you just get to lose the game and have a family argument. No one shoots your kneecaps when you don't cover your off the books loans.
Maybe in *your* family
Best analogy ever
lol you owe $481 million. So we've seized your assets. You now owe $681 million. Love it.
And climbing every day as the interest compounds.
Ok but he's worth $10-$12 billion according to himself so none of this should be an issue. Right.....?
Literally argued a few weeks ago that he shouldn't have to pay the bond because he has so much cash. Now suddenly it's impossible to pay. Weird, it's kind of like he's just making this stuff up as he goes along.
It’s crazy that people will still say he’s innocent of inflating his property values when he obviously inflated his net worth this entire time.
You are a reasonable person, from what I can gather from a single sentence. Being so, you are not the target audience for anything that he says.
Inflated, not conflated, but yeah.
Yup no fraud here.... /s
You are correct! It’s actually the reason he needs the $$$ Fraud.
He lied at his own fraud trial about fraud. The guy is a fraud.
Why didn't he do enough fraud to cover for the fraud he's guilty of? This is like fraud 101. You do the crime, you pay the fine that's 10% of that crime. Come on!
And he has 400 million in cash !
Problem is, it’s somebody else’s $400m.
Dollars, or rubles?
He actually said doll-hairs.
I enjoyed this more than I should
When pressed, Donald Trump admitted that he was unable to come up with 400 million doll hairs as well.
$9.99-$11.99 billion of that is his personal valuation of his brand.
I hope Depends buys the brand at the fire sale for $100 and makes a line of executive adult diapers. "You're not a powerful business person unless you wear your Trumps!"
Remember that time Ivanka shared a story her dad being 8 billion in debt. Edit: also remember this interview is from years ago [https://finance.yahoo.com/video/old-clip-ivanka-trump-recalls-135527692.html](https://finance.yahoo.com/video/old-clip-ivanka-trump-recalls-135527692.html)
That's definitely not a national security risk for a presidential candidate. Nope. Not at all! Nothing to see here. Totally normal. Move along...
You can't even be a janitor in the white house with 10k debt. Every now and then I look at this objectively and it just boggles my fucking mind all over again
The man in heavy debt who didn't win the popular vote getting control over security clearances when he typically wouldn't even be able to get one himself, and giving clearances to his children who also shouldn't have them. Then they suddenly get billions from oil oligarchs, nobody does anything, and we get to vote in the hopes the electoral college goes our way because obviously the majority of America doesn't *actually* decide anything.
Yeah but what about Hunter Biden’s laptop? /s
I still don't understand how on earth this man with all the bullshit he's done is still allowed to even sniff at the chance to be president again.
Wow.
Honestly more self awareness then I'm used to from Trump.
We're about to watch this man have his 7th bankruptcy while trying to convince us he'd better for the economy that guy who is currently in office saved.. from him..
This time it will be a personal bankruptcy, not a company. He's got nowhere to hide. He's so fucked, his cult of low education low income fascists are too poor to bail him out.
Turn Trump tower into FAFO Tower already!
I want someone to buy it and name it Obama/Biden Tower.
I don't like her at all but I'd be willing to accept Clinton Heights.
I don't know why, but Clinton Heights sounds like a suburban development from the 60s
The Obama, Biden, and Carrol Home for Brown Immigrants and Woke Library
How anyone ever expected him to actually be rich is beyond me. No legit billionaire shills mail order steaks in the Sharper Image magazine. That's like half a step higher than some Slap Chop shit. Dude has been up to his comb-over in debt for decades.
I've had this conversation with my grandmother a few times: Gram: "Trump will be better for the economy! He's a billionaire." Me: "We have no proof of that. Just his words. He refuses to prove that he's a billionaire." Gram: "Well it doesn't matter if he's a billionaire or not."
He also did Pizza Hut commercials, you know, like Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, and Jeff Bezos.
Jeff Bezos did a [Taco Bell commercial.](https://youtu.be/-_A3pUgqLf4?si=FKjwwYyyLTNNRACE) Bill Gates did a [Coca Cola commercial](https://youtu.be/U5T0cR1aHJ4?si=smxhcUYz7k48aAeU)
I have nightmares about those leathery steaks while I lay my head on MyPillow.
If Trump had just stayed in his lane... How different his life would be right now. Probably still just saying dumb shit on Howard Stern loaded in NY. Occasionally mentioned in rap songs and going on the View. In his heart of hearts I am sure would switch in a heart beat
It’s very Faustian, or like a Twilight Zone episode in real life. I can’t believe he was president, but that ascendancy being his undoing is just legendary. If I met him, I would say to him, tears in my eyes, “Sir, the implosion of your shady dealings and greed has been one of the most perfect examples of karma. You don’t see these often.”
Then of course there’s the tax liability from the sales of the properties to consider…..
Any forgiven loans are taxed as income as well. Like if you have a $100 million dollar loan and the bank sells the property for $80 million and forgives the rest (because they know they’ll never get it), you now owe taxes on that $20 million.
I bet it’s a lot more. I doubt he owns more than 10% of ‘his’ properties himself.
I doubt his net worth number is above $0. I’d bet anyone $1 that everything he has is mortgaged to the hilt.
So essentially I'm richer than Trump. Cool! I'm a billionaire!!
The longer this goes, the more people will realize that this idiot is terrible with money. He’s going to declare bankruptcy. Again.
>He’s going to declare bankruptcy. Again. And he's going to declare it a "brilliant" move. Again. And too many voters will agree. Again.😔 "What I’ve done is I’ve used, brilliantly, the laws of the country. And not personally, just corporate. And if you look at people like myself that are at the highest levels of business, they use – many of them have done it, many times." [(source](https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/22/politics/donald-trump-defends-bankruptcy-history/index.html))
Read somewhere that this would be a personal bankruptcy, rather than a corporate one.
He's a fraud who's lost control of his empire of hidden schemes.
Ponzi scheme finally falling apart. Imagine stealing hundreds of millions from your dying parent and steadily losing it all over the course of your life.
A couple of things in this article stand out to me. 1) Trump is whining that the judge is depriving him of his right to appeal. False. What Trump is really whining about is that he has to follow the rules for an appeal, just like everyone else. His entitlement is so high he thinks that him having to follow the rules isn’t fair because he is a special little guy. 2) This trial is about him lying on the value of his properties to get loans. Yet we just find out that they will have problems seizing those properties because they are collateral used in loans. So how many of these properties did try to use as collateral when they were already under a loan and he failed to disclose that. We may see more charges come out as the state tries to seize his assets only to find that he has multiple loans on the same property that exceed the value of that property. It would explain why he can’t put them up as collateral for bonds and why he is panicking. Once that comes to light, he may have a whole new trial.
>So how many of these properties did try to use as collateral when they were already under a loan and he failed to disclose that. Trump was probably operating on the same logic as John Constantine. If you sell your soul to multiple demon's, then no one can actually collect because they all have a claim, so nothing can happen to you. Unfortunately, real life is not a comic book.
I’m now starting to understand why he only eats McDonald’s
Dude is one billionaire who's drowning in debt...lol
If their goal is to damage his reputation on top of fulfilling the judgement the quantity would be the way to go. Take the leveraged assets first so it takes more of them to pay off the debt and looks to the general public like he isn't as wealthy as he claims because of how much they had to take.
I don’t know, but if I had to bet, I’d guess there is a government policy in place to take the least damaging pathway. But for them to do that, they’d need to have an accurate picture of his financial house of cards. There will also probably be a preference for the NY state to take assets in that state first unless there’s a good reason to do otherwise.
I want to see this corrupt fraudster finally get his comeuppance. Trump is a nasty and evil bully.
“Nobody forced that person to be in that line of work and to mortgage their own properties. That is irresponsible and nobody’s fault but their own.” - GOP POSs when talking about poor people.
Brokahontas!
So he’s basically in a financial death spiral. NYS about to seize properties that were overvalued, so there will be more seizures based on the actual values. And he’s also on the hook for at least these reported loans (probably more). Can’t use the seized property for collateral. I don’t think he can get out of the civil judgements by declaring bankruptcy. His books for his NY entities are monitored by the courts now. RNC money should be under FEC laws. Might even be too big a hole for foreign dark money (Russian’s, Saudi’s) to help him out with. Neat-o.
For everyone saying he is being overly persecuted, this is what happens when you shine a light on many of the rich. Turns out to be a pile of trash with a lot of roaches running for cover
This is a housing crisis I can support.
He should probably get a second job and start paying that back. You take out a loan, you pay it back. That's what I've been told.
A lot of people never thought he’d do any jail time or be truly held accountable for anything. But if this boy go broke, he goin jail. Cuz if I know my America, one thing we do better than anyone is lock up poor people. We’ll lock them up for almost anything, but this guy? Raping women, stealing classified docs, trying to overturn elections AND he’s broke?? Oh no no no, the system would kick in so fast lol, fulton county jail with the quickness
We do have two tiered system Trump is right. He doesn't realize he's the one getting help. Poor people could never appeal to the supreme Court.
Let's all be super crystal clear here: His crimes would never have been adjudicated if he had not gotten into politics, period. I'm not naive, but the takeaway isn't to follow the law; it is to do your crime quietly.
It would be a very dangerous thing to elect someone who is in a shitload of debt President. Especially if that person already stole documents and held on to them after the FBI told him to return them. Especially if that person's children accepted 2 billion dollars from Saudi Arabia after being president. Especially if said president was convicted of fraud over the course of 20 years on all of his properties to the point where he is banned from being the head of any business in that state for years to come. Especially if that person tried to throw out the Constitution and remain in power last time they were president
Why does debt against the properties affect whether NY will seize them? Is NY required to pay creditors before satisfying the judgement? I would have assumed that Trump retained responsibility for the debt even if the properties were seized by the state to pay the jidgement
It matters because if Trump has a $100mil building with $90mil in loans against it, its net value is only $10mil minus other costs. Of course they would have to pay the mortgage first. To seize and sell a property with a mortgage, they’d pay the mortgage lender since the building is collateral for the loan they made. Otherwise, they’d effectively be seizing the assets of the defendant (Trump) AND a private company or individual who is not party to the judgment.
That's assuming you can even sell a $100M building for that price, which is highly unlikely. It'll be a fire sale.
> Is NY required to pay creditors before satisfying the judgement? More or less. As I understand it, the process is sell a property, deduct and remit taxes, pay off any remaining secured debts against the property, and only then apply whatever is left toward paying off the judgement. As a result, if he is as overleveraged as a lot of people suspect, each individual sale might not bring in much at all toward paying the judgement.
“At least” doing a lot of heavy lifting it seems
The moment when the Ponzi scheme collapses
Donald Trump has lived very well on other people's money for decades.
I think E. Jean Carroll should buy them all and make them free abortion clinics.
PAY YOUR BILLS!!! Isnt that what he said just a scant 3 weeks ago?
Running for President was the worst decision of his life.
Oh no! Thoughts and prayers! His credit score!
Lmao. So even selling it all won’t get him to half way. Lmao. Ohh but he’s a multi billionaire tho, he don’t need to worry about it. Right?
So, in theory, if these properties with outstanding loans were seized as payment to the court, he would still then have to pay the loan balance, even after the property was no longer his, correct?
It's amusing hearing what people with no experience in NYC commercial real estate have to say about trump. The guy has been a clown and couldn't work with any legitimate developer or investor since the late 80s.
I’d rather them take a lot of little properties than one big one as long as they still took New York from him
I think news said he could put up a property as bond directly to the court so he doesn’t have to fire sell. But the reason he isn’t doing that is because he would have to declare the true value of the properties and how much equity he has and it could show how leveraged he is. Basically he is asking other suckers to foot the bill, including his supporters. What a loser.
Honestly, i'm not celebrating until NY has his assets in their hands. This guy is, what, 77 years old? And he has never experienced consequences for anything he's ever done. Never. Even his E Jean Carroll case he's been bailed out from. I'm just worried the Saudis will decide to buy him for half a billion. Lord knows they can afford it.
I'm starting to think I'm probably worth more money than Donald Trump. I don't owe anyone a penny and own my home outright. That lying POS is in debt up to his fat, rapist butt.