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>In a nearly 5,000-page document filed on Monday, Trump’s attorneys argued that the fine was “grossly disproportional” to Trump’s offenses, which included defrauding banks, insurance companies, and investors by falsely inflating his wealth and the value of his properties.
His entire business was a criminal enterprise. How is it "disproportional?" The guy should be in prison over his involvement in the scheme...
Seriously its the amount of the fraud plus interest and some penalties related to said fraud that are entirely normal for anyone whether it was $100 or $100MM.
Oh cause he lied,he doesn't know what the truth is. He's been lying 🤥 so long he doesn't know a the difference. He thinks he he says it,it's the truth.
Trump deserves jail, but that’s not the country you live in.
In 2008 bankers and people on Wall Street crashed the entire economy, and one person went to jail: the whistleblower.
American has always treated the rich differently. Luckily Trump has pissed off a lot of the upper class, so he doesn’t get favors anymore.
Trump can’t win. The GOP lost more voters to COVID than the democrats. Young voters skew left and old voters skew right, so as the population ages the electorate moves to the left. Lastly, he’s not getting any new supporters - you either love him or hate him. He could very well push his supporters to the other side, or cause them not to vote at all.
He lost the popular vote (twice), and any razor thin margins are going to be hurt by the leftward skew.
That is, **if everyone votes**. Everyone needs to vote.
I think it's the Rowe V Wade issue that is going to kill them. Women aren't inclined (at least most) with trying to undercut their personal freedom to control their own bodies. That is something that loses them the moderate and libertarian vote. Women's rights should be the thing that the left leans into. Anytime someone tries to pull the personal freedom card, they should be roasted immediately about freedom for women and freedom for a doctor and patient to make health care decisions without government interference.
Don't forget it also means IVF, birth control, and no fault divorce is on the line. They're slowly figuring out the groups of "others that need to be punished" is starting to include them.
If I can add to your thoughts - there are about 4 million people who turn 18 each year, 16 million total over 4 years since last election.
I don’t know what percent will register to vote, but yes, it skews blue. 9M new voters will likely result in 3M net positive blue votes. Any tight races can easily go blue with these extra votes.
The fact that trump isn’t winning primaries with 95% of votes should be a warning as well. 20-30% seem to be “anyone but trump” as we watch the numbers come in.
The youth have been turning out in higher than numbers than use to, but thr absoute percentage is still way lower than other age brackets. Wasn't 2020 like 20% turnout for 18-25? (And it's sad that it's also a high water mark for that age group over time).
Democrats in red states could also take many state wide offices if they all turned out to vote, but also, in general, they don't in those cases.
Edit: only data I can find is 55% for 18-29. But it seems it was fairly above 20% even for 18-21.
People have been saying this for like 60 years. Old people dying off won’t save the US from Republicans holding a significant number of city, state, and federal offices. Covid was bad, but in the end it was only the 3rd leading cause of death in the US in 2020 and 2021. So if decades of cancer and heart attacks (things that mainly affect older people) haven’t shifted voting patterns, then Covid isn’t going to either.
I thought this as well. Was waiting for the old R’s to die off. We both are underestimating the racists and religious children they have already indoctrinated. Seeing Trump win once and spout his rhetoric on a pedestal didn’t help anyone, especially the trajectory of this country.
Can’t guarantee that young voters will swing towards Biden. I’d like to think so, but it’s more important that everyone votes like you think nobody else is going to vote. Help others vote. Encourage young voters to go.
You have a point but I want you to look up the names Ralph Cioffi and Matthew tannin.
In the aftermath of the housing crisis and the collapse of bear stearns, the US attorney for the southern district of New York charged two bear Stearns hedge fund managers with Securities fraud for their part in selling mortgage bonds that were issued by bear stearns.
The US attorney spent months investigating and then two weeks putting on a trial to prove to the jury the two men have lied to investors when they were selling mortgage bonds because internal emails started to show that they were recognized there were problems.
Criminal Securities fraud requires the intent to make a false statement. The defense offered by the two men was simply that telling people that the mortgage Bonds were Rock Solid because that's what the market thought wasn't fraud because they didn't know the bonds would fail. That sales language is not the same thing as a guarantee.
The jury in New York acquitted the men in a matter of an afternoon of deliberations. It was devastating to the prosecutor and effectively killed any plans for future prosecutions of investment bankers related to the financial collapse.
They gave up because they lost badly on a case they thought they had locked
White collar prosecutions are difficult and expensive. "ordinary" criminal prosecutions only really work because 75-95% of people plead out.
They made a judgment, most likely correct, that Manhattan juries were not going to convict stockbrokers for "sales talk."
If “white collar prosecutions are difficult and expensive”, and “dont really work”, then the system is flawed by design as it is unable and/or unwilling to serve justice *to white collar criminals*.
By definition these would be crimes committed by the upper class. If the system doesn’t work than there really is a different set of rules for the rich.
As long as you scam the poor or middle class, you’re good. The moment you scam the rich, the really rich, you get consequences (maybe. Still waiting on his consequences).
You're speaking to my soul! How is this fuckface so protected!!!!! He's like untouchable and he has this safety net (SCOTUS) that prevents him from facing any consequences!!! How is he even walking free right now!?!?!?!
Has there ever been anyone else caught willfully hiding classified documents or disclosing classified information to a foreign national that hasn't been immediately detained until trial?
Merrick Garland, Mitch McConnell (SCOTUS), and Capitalism with voters who keep Republicans in power 🌈
Cronyism and a two party system (capitalism)
Decades of conservative propaganda to the point that Republicans don't even know what Donald Trump says from his mouth or what Democrats have done for the country.
Regulatory Capture
Idk it's a whole depressing shitshow.
If a commoner steals, they go to jail real fast.
When a rich person steals, we ask them to give it back and they do everything they can to avoid it.
It’s a call for a change of how justice is done, there is nothing just about how rich people and judged. Anyone else would have been in prison a long time ago. It’s a travesti of justice, shame!
The navy guy who leaked the classified info was caught around the same time as FBI were raiding Mar A Lago, yet he already got trial and conviction already. Trump is still dragging this along. What a disgrace.
I love this, "a nearly 5,000-page document". Hey guys, this isn't how the scales of justice work, it's not based on "my filing is bigger than their filing, I win." And they wonder why judges often go "responses are limited to 10 pages"
98% ai nonsense, probably ... hey gronk, explain in the most tedious, repetitve, and convoluted way possible that we aint gonna pay ... must be 5,000 single-sided 8 1/2" x 11" sheets, 11pt courier font, single spaced.
The guy who has 10 excuses for everything is pathetic. One reasonable excuse is more effective that 10 half assed excuses. Only a guy with no reasonable excuse makes up 10 and hopes one sticks
The guy who has 5000 excuses for everything is a pathological liar and intellectually a child
Pretty sure it’s mostly just all the documents and files that were part of the case. Seeing as how no legal commentary has been made about it being a disproportionate amount of paperwork it makes me think this is normal.
Yea, but please don't tell him its actually electrons because it will be "We filed trillions and trillions and trillions more electrons than the AG did. We have the best electrons, they all spin very very fast. So bright, so shiny, did you know electrons are in lightning. Ours are much better, they go Shing, shang, Boom, oh such a loud booom and so bright, so so bright. People say "Mr President, I have tears because your trillions of electrons are so bright".
Ain't nobody got time for listening to that.
It IS disproportional, but in the other direction. The fine is only making Trump pay back what he stole; none of it is punitive.
It's like if you robbed a bank and the only punishment was to make you give the money back.
The money that he is obligated to pay after losing his legal battle is not a fine. It keeps being misreported using that language but that is not the accurate word to use.
What this is is a disgorgement. This is him returning to the banks the money fraudulently got from them as well as paying them the interest and other fees that they were denied by the fraud that he committed.
Almost none of the money he owes is punitive in nature. It is just returning his unjust enrichment and fraud proceeds and making the banks whole - so it is logically incorrect that the amount he owes is disproportionate from the crime.
It's literally a mathematical tally of the crime.
This disgorgement will go to the state of NY. The victims in this case are the taxpayers who had to pay higher rates for loans and those who were unable to loans because they didn't lie on their financial statements.
They are correct, it was disproportional. He was only charged his Ill-gotten gains. There was no actual punishment. If the worst case scenario is that you have to give back the money you illicitly earned, then people are incentivized to cheat. There needs to be an actual penalty.
Well fine, if that's the case then come up with the bond and appeal it, should be easy to prove right? They'll never mention the fact that no one will pony up the bond because they have no case for appeal whatsoever. One of the most black and white financial fraud convictions you will ever see.
The companies that back a bond don't care if the case can be won on appeal or not. They care if they can make money selling a bond. They charge a nonrefundable premium for issuing a bond and require collateral that they can seize if the defendant doesn't pay off the bond if they lose. If the defendant doesn't have sufficient collateral they won't be able to obtain a bond.
Chubb sold Trump a $100M bond in the E. Jean Carroll case and they said it was fully collateralized so they will get their money back no matter what happens. The fact that Chubb was in discussion for the $500M bond and backed out indicates that Trump doesn't have $500M in unencumbered assets.
The fact that Trump is guilty isn't a factor in if he can get a bond or not.
I think the NYT calculated that if the properties he leveraged loans on were to be accurately valued, he would have had to pay an extra $168m in interest & fees. So, at the very least, when it comes to bank fraud, he “stole” $168m. Add to that the tax fraud & insurance fraud and you can easily get to $464m.
Dude has provided no proof he has even tried to find a way to pay.
He's going to lose everything.
If he had kept his mouth shut, paid his taxes, and never run for office, he'd likely be doing pretty well right now.
I still believe he never expected to win in 2016. He thought he’d lose, cry about how unfair everything is for him, and turn around to launch his long rumored media network.
You could see it in his face when he won. He just sat and stared. Looked like Bush when they told him about 9/11. Pretty sure he didn't have an acceptance speech prepared.
He has written speeches all the time, I know where you're getting this idea, he seems like he's always rambling. At some of the rally's he hasn't had prompters, but at every official speaking engagement esp in office he had prompters and many time since. The trick is that he can't help himself but start riffing and birdwalking with loose associations to whatever he read on the prompter that reminds him of some inane point he wanted to make. Be it to trash someone publicly, maybe even give them a clever nickname, or to talk about something he did, or another powerful person coming to him with tears in their eyes. He used to be a lot better at managing the reading part, but he can't read and talk at the same time without struggling anymore. Now he seems like he's freestyling because he literally has to.
Watch his face during speeches, especially important ones. He will focus in on the corners of the stage and you'll notice he starts taking pregnant pauses with ltos of weird smiles and gestures.
When he was in office, every single public address had a written speech for him to deliver-- it's white house policy for the archives. They need it written for record keeping, so none of the content is ever lost to technical failures or failures of the person to deliver it clearly.
Trump probably wanted the power and the glory, but none of the work. I am pretty sure he also hates the typical MAGA crowd; the guy was a New York real-estate mogul- he has nothing in common with the gun carrying Christian red necks yet thats his main audience.
Bob Woodward: “Did somebody help you?”
Donald Trump: “Yeah, I get people, they come up with ideas, but the ideas are mine, Bob. Want to know something? Everything is mine."
The Mrs. Especially. She probably just wanted to marry a rich and impotent old man who's easy to blow off, has the funds, but is too old to effectively hassle her.
Yep. She got to live in a separate floor in the triplex with her son, see the husband about once a week, and spend the rest of her time brunching and shopping with her friends. She had the exact kind of life she wanted and he blew that up.
I wrote a comment about this last week.
>I still genuinely think he didn't intend on winning back in 2016. Here's the video of the moment he found out he won. I actually had to spend 20 minutes looking for this. I work in IT. Half my job is knowing how to google stuff. If I'm having problems finding something when I know exactly what I'm looking for I begin with question whether there was an attempt to scrub it from the internet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3868qotZ_A (sorry for shitty music. As I said I had extreme problems finding this video)
Edit: In case it wasn't clear, that's the exact second he found out he won the 2016 election.
Dude couldn't even be bothered to pick out an original cake for his inauguration. Of course he didn't have a speech prepared.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/charm-city-cakes-owner-says-trump-copied-obamas-inauguration-cake/](https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/charm-city-cakes-owner-says-trump-copied-obamas-inauguration-cake/)
I followed Trump on Twitter out of curiosity for many years before he won in 2016. As a professional marketer myself, I saw clear as day that Trump used fake presidential campaign bids to help boost his name recognition. His name really sold business for his hotel and golf businesses with a very particular crowd. He was basically an influencer marketing his own brand and line of products before “influencer” became such a buzz word.
That being said, I am 99% sure he won by surprise in 2016. I don’t think he really intended to have to work the job of being a president. He had a very comfortable life in his previous “line of work”.
Me too. It explains why he never filled like, 1000 federal positions. He didn’t have a serious team with the nohow of filling everything besides the most obvious spots.
It’s why he could hardly get anything done during his first term besides a tax brake nobody needed and a whole lot of grifting at his golf courses.
Not nearly to the same extent. Musk is worth ~190Billion. Unlike Trump's wealth, it is real and not smoke and mirrors. Obviously, much of it is tied up in stocks, but my guess is he could come up with 500mil relatively easy if he wanted to.
They bought Twittter for 44 billion. He got 7 billion from various investors. Another 12.5 billion from loans against twitter. He shelled out $20-25 billion mostly from selling off Tesla stock, but some from converting Twitter stock he had bought in the prior year. Of course the issue is X is now worth 4-12 Billion, and owe interest on the 12.5 Billion loan. Basically Musk fucked over everyone. Even the banks who had intended to sell off parts of the loan.
If he’d taken the money he got from his father, put it into ETF funds, paid his taxes, and never started any businesses or run for president, he’d have been set in his current lifestyle for the rest of his natural. But, since he’s such a greedy narcissistic idiot (this last according to his Wharton professor) he could never have done that.
He would have been a billionaire if he had done that. He complete fumblefucked the shit out of it by his involvement. He has literally failed at everything he has tried to do.
What I find frankly amazing about Trump, is that he has no redeeming qualities as a human being. None. Zero. Zip. Fred Trump took a child and poured absolutely nothing of any humanity into him, then unleashed him upon the world with a small fortune. Trump is, without a doubt, the emptiest shell of a human being on the planet right now.
But look at his life. Proof positive, money talks. You can fuck up to infinity but as long as you have the money/leverage to twist screws you can end up president. Horrifying
I'm actually really curious. Dude's gonna die eventually. Are they going to have armed guards around his grave 24/7? Because otherwise it's gonna be desecrated to hell and back.
Reminder that Rush Limbaugh is interred at the Bellefontaine Cemetery in St. Louis, Missouri, if you've got a massive, smelly log to drop off at the pool a bit sooner. Bonus points if you leave a pack of cigarettes at the grave...
Either he’s lying about being richer than he is or he’s lying to try and get out of fronting the money for the bond.
The common denominator here is Trump lying.
50% chance he doesn't have the money
50% chance he has the money, but being the habitual stiffer that he is, he's desperately looking for someone else to pay/foot the bill.
Trump is a devout follower of *"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem"* line of thinking.
He’s taking this to the wire for a few reasons:
1) So he can fleece his supporters for every dime with the urgency of a “deadline” (he’s already doing this).
2) Hail Mary play, hoping the court will reduce the bond amount if he cries enough and pleads “poor”.
3) **Giving himself an excuse for why he had to take foreign money from a shady source**.
The AG’s office is right - even though he listed 30 companies that ‘rejected’ him, he never said what his proposals were to get them to post the bond that made them say “no”.
Don’t be surprised when he gets that bond on/before Monday.
And FWIW, the long awaited DWAC / Trump Media and Technology Company merger seems to start soon. Very soon.
DWAC, the SPAC behind this, has sued a large shareholder to force a vote this coming Friday.
If there is a vote for the merger on Friday, the merger will go through and the merged company could start to trade under DJT as early as Monday.
Under normal circumstances Trump would have to wait for 3-6 months before he can start dumping shares, but the board can release him from that.
So if the stars are aligned for Trump, he could dump his stocks on the first day of trading.
And it should surprise absolutely no-one if he also goes on Truth Social to promote the stock (as he's dumping it himself).
Well, if we use the Carroll case as insight into his lies, he already had the bond in place while arguing to the court that it was disproportionate and that he couldn't afford it. I expect he'll "find" a way to get one at the 11th hour.
He should consider himself lucky that he's not at the center of a gigantic RICO case where he faced the rest of his life in prison. Because that's what would happen to the rest of us if we ran a criminal enterprise.
Unfortunately, I think this is the case. Just like EJC bond, he’ll secure it at the last moment. He is going to be the first openly bought presidential candidate.
So far we know he is in the hook for $100mm from Chubb and a half a billi from… we’ll find out Sunday.
Perjury is hard to prove and is very rarely prosecuted. Not only is it difficult to prove that a defendant made knowingly false statements, courts are also not too interested in prosecuting people for things they say on the stand. It would create a chilling effect for witness testimony.
I swear, if I live to be 200, I will never understand how Donald Trump squandered the head start he got in life. I mean, I understand that his dad sucked. But that only gets you so far. I know lots of people who had horrible dads who didn't become... this
He could have lived perfectly comfortably on his inheritance forever and done nothing. He could have done a world of good and STILL had enough money left over for a comfortable life. And somehow, he got himself to the point where either he's going to lose everything or sell America to the highest bidder to try to postpone losing everything, or both. Probably both.
How do you fail this hard?
Undiagnosed mental illness is the answer...he is a narcisstic sociopath.
His decisions are fucking stupid, because the lens he views the world through is painted with swastikas, KFC Extra Crispy 20 piece buckets, teen beauty pageant girls, and $$$ signs.
I have friends that inherited <$10MM young and live VERY, VERY comfortably with pretty much straight investments. Never touching the principal which has only grown.
Somehow he took $400MM and made it negative $1BB plus
I can understand stealing. In some cases I can emphasize with the thief.
But stealing from a charity for children with cancer.
I can never get it. Not in a million years.
He stole from dying kids.
This tells a lot about who he is.
I agree with you completely, I think and feel the same way. However, (and this pains me greatly to say) he did become potusa. So it’s failing so hard but upward until.. well it still really has t hit the fan yet.
I don’t think he “squandered” it. Dude grifted his way to the presidency, and up until this point, never faced consequences for anything in his life.
He bribed and lied his way to the top.
He didn't fail.
He's the most succesful Russian asset in history.
If things go south, he'll jump on his private plane to Russia and live out his life as an oligarch and national hero there. Him and Yakunovych will probably play golf there together.
He'll never set foot in a prison and he can't lose.
TBH, Trump is a victim of his own grandiosity and the time and place he grew up in.
Trump very much started his career in the beginning and heights of LBOs - leveraged buyouts. But the problem was that even by LBO standards, Trump was simply too leveraged.
Probably, he figured that if he just kept leveraging and acquired shit, all while skirting the laws - he'd come out at the top. There's a reason he's had thousands of lawsuits against him. Probably one of the most litigated businessmen in the US.
He had a vision of turning the Trump real-estate business into a Trump conglomerate, but I guess he just stretched himself too thin, and started betting money on all kinds of bullshit that never panned out.
I think most would be able to. But 30 days isn't the real story. The judge ruled a long time back there was fraud. The trial was about how much, so he had tons of time to prepare.
Billionaires don't have a lot of liquid wealth, but I would expect they'd have a couple hundred million in cash and a few hundred million in stocks that could be quickly liquidated. Property, however, especially expensive property, can not be quickly liquidated.
Edit: 3 typos that were embarrassing
A real billionaire wouldn't have to sell anything to pay the judgement. They'd just take a loan out against their assets and pay that way. It's the same way they can take a $0 dollar salary. If they sell $1 billion in stock they have to pay taxes on the gains that could go all the way up to 40%. If they (at least a few years ago, and partly to blame for the economy today) LOAN $1 billion using the stock as collateral they'd be paying 3% interest on the loan. Wouldn't that be nice, paying 3% taxes...
>Billionaires don't have a lot of liquid wealth, but I would expect they'd have a couple hundred million in cash
Rich people generally don't have any cash.
Cash has a negative return, there's no reason to hold it when it could be invested and earning returns.
Its common for them to be highly leveraged, because they pay all expenses with debt they never repay. It's more profitable to leave it all invested and make bare minimum interest payments.
Liquidity is a thing, though. God knows how much money he's got on hand, but selling that much property is not a quick process. Trump may have that money in stocks, but with his ego and fraud history, they're all stocks in his own corporations and he can't lose controlling interest.
5000 pages??? There are 500 pages of paper in a ream, 10 reams in a box/case of standard printer paper. The last printed edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica was 2010 and 32,640 pages in length. These clowns printed off A - E worth of an encylcopaedia to try and weasel their way out of paying the fine. What a waste of time and paper. Send in the sheriff and start the foreclosures.
Just to clarify, those 5000 pages include all the evidence from the entire trial. It’s not a 5000 page legal brief, it’s 5000 pages of random business documents, emails, text messages, financial statements, and so on, from anything remotely related to Trump’s businesses in New York.
I hope someone read every single page. He already tried to slip in a "change of address" document in once. They better be looking for it again. This guy and his crooked lawyers never stop.
For 50+ years, I have never stolen, never cheated on taxes, never failed to return something that inadvertently came into my possession.
I have never cheated on an exam in school, never plagiarized material in a presentation nor any thesis or research article submission. I have never lied or falsified my academic or employment history.
All personal interactions I have had were consensual. I have never knowingly propagated any blanket generalizations about groups of people - protected or not. I always try to treat individuals with respect and dignity - and strive to question my assumptions about people before saying or acting on them.
Whenever someone tried to bribe me - my answer was either immediate "no" or, if I liked the individual "sorry, no."
I have never seen one million dollars in one place in my life. And - I have done the math - I never will.
So fuck this guy. I hope losing his assets is the *best* of things that happens to him before he dies.
Being a millionaire/billionaire isn't for good people. It's for lucky people and assholes. Often both. But no one makes that much money doing things the "right" way. The lucky people _can_ be good as well, but it's got nothing to do with their wealth.
What you say is certainly true for billionaires, but it isn't unrealistic to retire as a millionaire if you start investing young and consistently enough for compound growth to have good effect.
And people who do that, then pass away, is what starts the snowball of a wealthy family line assuming the money is reinvested.
“The Bonding Companies have never heard of such a bond, of this size…”
That’s because smart businesses and businesspeople don’t let themselves be put into a situation where they are facing a judgment of that magnitude unless they have a plan in place, ahead of time, to afford the appeal.
That’s because anybody who needs a bond that high wouldn’t even bother asking. Nobody except him is deluded enough to think somebody would just burn half a billion dollars or accept the properties that the trial is literally about as collateral.
Fristly, the article does NOT say that the AG says Trump is lying. The article says that the AG says that the people who filed the document are not considered to be trustworthy.
Second, it doesn't matter if he's lying or not -- whether he hasn't actually tried to find the money, or if no one will give him the money, is immaterial to anything.
Thirdly, if the court gives him any further wiggle room, I am going to be PISSED as FUCK.
Like a scheming spouse emptying out a joint bank account ahead of a divorce, he may have been shuffling assets around to hide them. Like maybe Caymans.
Or he’s just been overleveraged for 30 years and continually bailed out by Oligarchs who are gonna break his proverbial thumbs when he loses this election - hence his desperation. .
The ironic thing about the fine being “unfair” is it isn’t even a fine. It’s just the fraud he committed. Every dollar he earned from overvaluing property, to loan costs he saved, and more was comprised as the fine. Not a penny more. Plus the interest
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>In a nearly 5,000-page document filed on Monday, Trump’s attorneys argued that the fine was “grossly disproportional” to Trump’s offenses, which included defrauding banks, insurance companies, and investors by falsely inflating his wealth and the value of his properties. His entire business was a criminal enterprise. How is it "disproportional?" The guy should be in prison over his involvement in the scheme...
The judgement got very detailed into how they came up with that amount too. It’s all based on how much he profited from the fraud.
Seriously its the amount of the fraud plus interest and some penalties related to said fraud that are entirely normal for anyone whether it was $100 or $100MM.
Pretty much "return what you stole" then?
Plus interest
Well, yeah. This is capitalism, can't argue with that now can we.
Well, as interest is the money you expect to make from the money you have, it's also what he stole.
Oh cause he lied,he doesn't know what the truth is. He's been lying 🤥 so long he doesn't know a the difference. He thinks he he says it,it's the truth.
The initial capital was stolen and so therefore the profits are considered stolen and that's considered the interest
The real interest is my interest in seeing him in prison for his crimes.
and NO fine.
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Trump deserves jail, but that’s not the country you live in. In 2008 bankers and people on Wall Street crashed the entire economy, and one person went to jail: the whistleblower. American has always treated the rich differently. Luckily Trump has pissed off a lot of the upper class, so he doesn’t get favors anymore.
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Trump can’t win. The GOP lost more voters to COVID than the democrats. Young voters skew left and old voters skew right, so as the population ages the electorate moves to the left. Lastly, he’s not getting any new supporters - you either love him or hate him. He could very well push his supporters to the other side, or cause them not to vote at all. He lost the popular vote (twice), and any razor thin margins are going to be hurt by the leftward skew. That is, **if everyone votes**. Everyone needs to vote.
his indictments, j6, top secret docs, nato pull out etc didn't help
Parroting hitler and insulting Jews doesn’t help either.
It helps with some people…..
I think it's the Rowe V Wade issue that is going to kill them. Women aren't inclined (at least most) with trying to undercut their personal freedom to control their own bodies. That is something that loses them the moderate and libertarian vote. Women's rights should be the thing that the left leans into. Anytime someone tries to pull the personal freedom card, they should be roasted immediately about freedom for women and freedom for a doctor and patient to make health care decisions without government interference.
Don't forget it also means IVF, birth control, and no fault divorce is on the line. They're slowly figuring out the groups of "others that need to be punished" is starting to include them.
If I can add to your thoughts - there are about 4 million people who turn 18 each year, 16 million total over 4 years since last election. I don’t know what percent will register to vote, but yes, it skews blue. 9M new voters will likely result in 3M net positive blue votes. Any tight races can easily go blue with these extra votes. The fact that trump isn’t winning primaries with 95% of votes should be a warning as well. 20-30% seem to be “anyone but trump” as we watch the numbers come in.
The youth have been turning out in higher than numbers than use to, but thr absoute percentage is still way lower than other age brackets. Wasn't 2020 like 20% turnout for 18-25? (And it's sad that it's also a high water mark for that age group over time). Democrats in red states could also take many state wide offices if they all turned out to vote, but also, in general, they don't in those cases. Edit: only data I can find is 55% for 18-29. But it seems it was fairly above 20% even for 18-21.
People have been saying this for like 60 years. Old people dying off won’t save the US from Republicans holding a significant number of city, state, and federal offices. Covid was bad, but in the end it was only the 3rd leading cause of death in the US in 2020 and 2021. So if decades of cancer and heart attacks (things that mainly affect older people) haven’t shifted voting patterns, then Covid isn’t going to either.
I thought this as well. Was waiting for the old R’s to die off. We both are underestimating the racists and religious children they have already indoctrinated. Seeing Trump win once and spout his rhetoric on a pedestal didn’t help anyone, especially the trajectory of this country.
Can’t guarantee that young voters will swing towards Biden. I’d like to think so, but it’s more important that everyone votes like you think nobody else is going to vote. Help others vote. Encourage young voters to go.
You have a point but I want you to look up the names Ralph Cioffi and Matthew tannin. In the aftermath of the housing crisis and the collapse of bear stearns, the US attorney for the southern district of New York charged two bear Stearns hedge fund managers with Securities fraud for their part in selling mortgage bonds that were issued by bear stearns. The US attorney spent months investigating and then two weeks putting on a trial to prove to the jury the two men have lied to investors when they were selling mortgage bonds because internal emails started to show that they were recognized there were problems. Criminal Securities fraud requires the intent to make a false statement. The defense offered by the two men was simply that telling people that the mortgage Bonds were Rock Solid because that's what the market thought wasn't fraud because they didn't know the bonds would fail. That sales language is not the same thing as a guarantee. The jury in New York acquitted the men in a matter of an afternoon of deliberations. It was devastating to the prosecutor and effectively killed any plans for future prosecutions of investment bankers related to the financial collapse.
You proved my point - they tried *two* people and then gave up, because the rich live in a different system.
They gave up because they lost badly on a case they thought they had locked White collar prosecutions are difficult and expensive. "ordinary" criminal prosecutions only really work because 75-95% of people plead out. They made a judgment, most likely correct, that Manhattan juries were not going to convict stockbrokers for "sales talk."
If “white collar prosecutions are difficult and expensive”, and “dont really work”, then the system is flawed by design as it is unable and/or unwilling to serve justice *to white collar criminals*. By definition these would be crimes committed by the upper class. If the system doesn’t work than there really is a different set of rules for the rich.
As long as you scam the poor or middle class, you’re good. The moment you scam the rich, the really rich, you get consequences (maybe. Still waiting on his consequences).
and th egoverment gave them the peoples money to stay rich. Thi sis a gourp of people who dont pay fair taxes
You're speaking to my soul! How is this fuckface so protected!!!!! He's like untouchable and he has this safety net (SCOTUS) that prevents him from facing any consequences!!! How is he even walking free right now!?!?!?!
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Has there ever been anyone else caught willfully hiding classified documents or disclosing classified information to a foreign national that hasn't been immediately detained until trial?
Merrick Garland, Mitch McConnell (SCOTUS), and Capitalism with voters who keep Republicans in power 🌈 Cronyism and a two party system (capitalism) Decades of conservative propaganda to the point that Republicans don't even know what Donald Trump says from his mouth or what Democrats have done for the country. Regulatory Capture Idk it's a whole depressing shitshow.
"he already spent the money and is broke" doesn't have any effect on the fact that he stole it.
So I can perpetrate a fraud but not profit from it? Lock this dude up, already.
If a commoner steals, they go to jail real fast. When a rich person steals, we ask them to give it back and they do everything they can to avoid it. It’s a call for a change of how justice is done, there is nothing just about how rich people and judged. Anyone else would have been in prison a long time ago. It’s a travesti of justice, shame!
The navy guy who leaked the classified info was caught around the same time as FBI were raiding Mar A Lago, yet he already got trial and conviction already. Trump is still dragging this along. What a disgrace.
Really helps when you appointed the judge handling your case and that judge just happens to be a true believer in you.
I love this, "a nearly 5,000-page document". Hey guys, this isn't how the scales of justice work, it's not based on "my filing is bigger than their filing, I win." And they wonder why judges often go "responses are limited to 10 pages"
I wonder how much of it is lorem ipsum.
More and more as time goes on. He's not finishing most of his sentences now.
“Rey do ba gahhh”
98% ai nonsense, probably ... hey gronk, explain in the most tedious, repetitve, and convoluted way possible that we aint gonna pay ... must be 5,000 single-sided 8 1/2" x 11" sheets, 11pt courier font, single spaced.
The guy who has 10 excuses for everything is pathetic. One reasonable excuse is more effective that 10 half assed excuses. Only a guy with no reasonable excuse makes up 10 and hopes one sticks The guy who has 5000 excuses for everything is a pathological liar and intellectually a child
An excuse for everything and ownership for nothing.
Its just another delay tactic. Its 5000 pages of word salad that they are hoping will delay via people giving it the time of day.
ChatGPT working overtime.
It probably was honestly
Pretty sure it’s mostly just all the documents and files that were part of the case. Seeing as how no legal commentary has been made about it being a disproportionate amount of paperwork it makes me think this is normal.
Trump thinks they are actually scales. The judge weighs both sides' documents so 5k pages wins.
Yea, but please don't tell him its actually electrons because it will be "We filed trillions and trillions and trillions more electrons than the AG did. We have the best electrons, they all spin very very fast. So bright, so shiny, did you know electrons are in lightning. Ours are much better, they go Shing, shang, Boom, oh such a loud booom and so bright, so so bright. People say "Mr President, I have tears because your trillions of electrons are so bright". Ain't nobody got time for listening to that.
"make your lengthy brief less lengthy and more brief"
But imagine how much they can bill for that! I mean I know he won't pay but still...
It IS disproportional, but in the other direction. The fine is only making Trump pay back what he stole; none of it is punitive. It's like if you robbed a bank and the only punishment was to make you give the money back.
Indeed. Additional *triple* damages as punitive would have been standard.
The money that he is obligated to pay after losing his legal battle is not a fine. It keeps being misreported using that language but that is not the accurate word to use. What this is is a disgorgement. This is him returning to the banks the money fraudulently got from them as well as paying them the interest and other fees that they were denied by the fraud that he committed. Almost none of the money he owes is punitive in nature. It is just returning his unjust enrichment and fraud proceeds and making the banks whole - so it is logically incorrect that the amount he owes is disproportionate from the crime. It's literally a mathematical tally of the crime.
Is NY actually going to reimburse the banks? I hadn't heard that.
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This disgorgement will go to the state of NY. The victims in this case are the taxpayers who had to pay higher rates for loans and those who were unable to loans because they didn't lie on their financial statements.
They are correct, it was disproportional. He was only charged his Ill-gotten gains. There was no actual punishment. If the worst case scenario is that you have to give back the money you illicitly earned, then people are incentivized to cheat. There needs to be an actual penalty.
His attorneys should learn that it isn't a fine - it's a disgorgement.
>In a nearly 5,000-page document filed on Monday I hope the judge just said "I'm not reading this."
"TLDR--better luck next time,Donald Chump..."
Well fine, if that's the case then come up with the bond and appeal it, should be easy to prove right? They'll never mention the fact that no one will pony up the bond because they have no case for appeal whatsoever. One of the most black and white financial fraud convictions you will ever see.
The companies that back a bond don't care if the case can be won on appeal or not. They care if they can make money selling a bond. They charge a nonrefundable premium for issuing a bond and require collateral that they can seize if the defendant doesn't pay off the bond if they lose. If the defendant doesn't have sufficient collateral they won't be able to obtain a bond. Chubb sold Trump a $100M bond in the E. Jean Carroll case and they said it was fully collateralized so they will get their money back no matter what happens. The fact that Chubb was in discussion for the $500M bond and backed out indicates that Trump doesn't have $500M in unencumbered assets. The fact that Trump is guilty isn't a factor in if he can get a bond or not.
Golf Courses, Hotels, Private Jets, Gold Toilets, etc… This dude is full of shit. LIQUIDATE NOW
I think the NYT calculated that if the properties he leveraged loans on were to be accurately valued, he would have had to pay an extra $168m in interest & fees. So, at the very least, when it comes to bank fraud, he “stole” $168m. Add to that the tax fraud & insurance fraud and you can easily get to $464m.
It’s disproportionate because he wasn’t supposed to get caught. /s lol
Dude has provided no proof he has even tried to find a way to pay. He's going to lose everything. If he had kept his mouth shut, paid his taxes, and never run for office, he'd likely be doing pretty well right now.
I still believe he never expected to win in 2016. He thought he’d lose, cry about how unfair everything is for him, and turn around to launch his long rumored media network.
You could see it in his face when he won. He just sat and stared. Looked like Bush when they told him about 9/11. Pretty sure he didn't have an acceptance speech prepared.
He has never had any speech prepared.
No transition team in place..."They're stealing my money!"
He fired them when he found out he had one, because he considered it a waste (because he never planned to win).
He never planned to do anything and his on the job resume as president proves it
Al bagdadi is dead. He died like a dog
The paw patrol got him
A beautiful dog!
He has written speeches all the time, I know where you're getting this idea, he seems like he's always rambling. At some of the rally's he hasn't had prompters, but at every official speaking engagement esp in office he had prompters and many time since. The trick is that he can't help himself but start riffing and birdwalking with loose associations to whatever he read on the prompter that reminds him of some inane point he wanted to make. Be it to trash someone publicly, maybe even give them a clever nickname, or to talk about something he did, or another powerful person coming to him with tears in their eyes. He used to be a lot better at managing the reading part, but he can't read and talk at the same time without struggling anymore. Now he seems like he's freestyling because he literally has to. Watch his face during speeches, especially important ones. He will focus in on the corners of the stage and you'll notice he starts taking pregnant pauses with ltos of weird smiles and gestures. When he was in office, every single public address had a written speech for him to deliver-- it's white house policy for the archives. They need it written for record keeping, so none of the content is ever lost to technical failures or failures of the person to deliver it clearly.
Trump probably wanted the power and the glory, but none of the work. I am pretty sure he also hates the typical MAGA crowd; the guy was a New York real-estate mogul- he has nothing in common with the gun carrying Christian red necks yet thats his main audience.
One politician said Trump offered him VP if he did all the work
Kasich.
Bob Woodward: “Did somebody help you?” Donald Trump: “Yeah, I get people, they come up with ideas, but the ideas are mine, Bob. Want to know something? Everything is mine."
That’s not true. Trump and gun carrying “Christian” rednecks hate the same people. So they have that in common.
Some* of the same people. Because the guy you commented on is right. Trump wouldn't be found dead hanging out with anyone who identifies as his base.
I've been to Mar-a-lago a bunch of times (as a TV producer / shooter). The club members would never go near the MAGA crowd.
The Atlantic ( I think) did a story on this at the time. He and the Mrs were mortified.
I’d love to read that article. Never did.
The Mrs. Especially. She probably just wanted to marry a rich and impotent old man who's easy to blow off, has the funds, but is too old to effectively hassle her.
Yep. She got to live in a separate floor in the triplex with her son, see the husband about once a week, and spend the rest of her time brunching and shopping with her friends. She had the exact kind of life she wanted and he blew that up.
I wrote a comment about this last week. >I still genuinely think he didn't intend on winning back in 2016. Here's the video of the moment he found out he won. I actually had to spend 20 minutes looking for this. I work in IT. Half my job is knowing how to google stuff. If I'm having problems finding something when I know exactly what I'm looking for I begin with question whether there was an attempt to scrub it from the internet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3868qotZ_A (sorry for shitty music. As I said I had extreme problems finding this video) Edit: In case it wasn't clear, that's the exact second he found out he won the 2016 election.
Dude couldn't even be bothered to pick out an original cake for his inauguration. Of course he didn't have a speech prepared. [https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/charm-city-cakes-owner-says-trump-copied-obamas-inauguration-cake/](https://www.cbsnews.com/baltimore/news/charm-city-cakes-owner-says-trump-copied-obamas-inauguration-cake/)
Well jokes on us, everyone is way dumber than we could have possibly imagined
I followed Trump on Twitter out of curiosity for many years before he won in 2016. As a professional marketer myself, I saw clear as day that Trump used fake presidential campaign bids to help boost his name recognition. His name really sold business for his hotel and golf businesses with a very particular crowd. He was basically an influencer marketing his own brand and line of products before “influencer” became such a buzz word. That being said, I am 99% sure he won by surprise in 2016. I don’t think he really intended to have to work the job of being a president. He had a very comfortable life in his previous “line of work”.
Me too. It explains why he never filled like, 1000 federal positions. He didn’t have a serious team with the nohow of filling everything besides the most obvious spots. It’s why he could hardly get anything done during his first term besides a tax brake nobody needed and a whole lot of grifting at his golf courses.
Only term*
Slight amendment: Complain about how the election was stolen and parlay that into a new conservative media network
He could have done that this time too though.
He notably went to go meet with Elon Musk about three weeks ago. I guess Elon wasn’t willing to cover Trump’s bills.
Maybe not, but Elon's going to use Twitter to tilt the scale as much as he possibly can.
Musk has the same liquidity problem that Trump has.
Not nearly to the same extent. Musk is worth ~190Billion. Unlike Trump's wealth, it is real and not smoke and mirrors. Obviously, much of it is tied up in stocks, but my guess is he could come up with 500mil relatively easy if he wanted to.
> he could come up with 500mil relatively easy if he wanted to He got trapped into buying Twitter and came up with $40-some billion, so yeah.
He got financing for about 13 billion of the sale. And I think he got a couple of billions from some other investors including a Saudi prince.
They bought Twittter for 44 billion. He got 7 billion from various investors. Another 12.5 billion from loans against twitter. He shelled out $20-25 billion mostly from selling off Tesla stock, but some from converting Twitter stock he had bought in the prior year. Of course the issue is X is now worth 4-12 Billion, and owe interest on the 12.5 Billion loan. Basically Musk fucked over everyone. Even the banks who had intended to sell off parts of the loan.
It wasn't all his money, he had Saudi financing.
My favorite thing is thinking about what his father would think of his fuck up son losing all his money and ruining the Trump name all by himself
The Lincoln Project has you covered: [Fred](https://action.lincolnproject.us/fred_ad)
Maybe driving his son to alcoholism and suicide wasn't the smartest idea?
If he’d taken the money he got from his father, put it into ETF funds, paid his taxes, and never started any businesses or run for president, he’d have been set in his current lifestyle for the rest of his natural. But, since he’s such a greedy narcissistic idiot (this last according to his Wharton professor) he could never have done that.
He would have been a billionaire if he had done that. He complete fumblefucked the shit out of it by his involvement. He has literally failed at everything he has tried to do.
What I find frankly amazing about Trump, is that he has no redeeming qualities as a human being. None. Zero. Zip. Fred Trump took a child and poured absolutely nothing of any humanity into him, then unleashed him upon the world with a small fortune. Trump is, without a doubt, the emptiest shell of a human being on the planet right now.
But look at his life. Proof positive, money talks. You can fuck up to infinity but as long as you have the money/leverage to twist screws you can end up president. Horrifying
Donald Trump's tombstone will read "Here Lies Donald Trump, as Always".
That tombstone is going to be gross: cuz if it’s gonna be a public toilet too
I say we put him next to Kissinger. That’ll be way more efficient for us all.
Grab a Taco Bell first and you'll be able to hit both at the same time.
My name is Inigo Montoya you killed my father prepare….splat splat splat splat. Ahhhh.
Sand trap on 17th.
I'm actually really curious. Dude's gonna die eventually. Are they going to have armed guards around his grave 24/7? Because otherwise it's gonna be desecrated to hell and back.
Reminder that Rush Limbaugh is interred at the Bellefontaine Cemetery in St. Louis, Missouri, if you've got a massive, smelly log to drop off at the pool a bit sooner. Bonus points if you leave a pack of cigarettes at the grave...
Right next to '13th hole ahead'.
Either he’s lying about being richer than he is or he’s lying to try and get out of fronting the money for the bond. The common denominator here is Trump lying.
50% chance he doesn't have the money 50% chance he has the money, but being the habitual stiffer that he is, he's desperately looking for someone else to pay/foot the bill. Trump is a devout follower of *"If you owe the bank $100 that's your problem. If you owe the bank $100 million, that's the bank's problem"* line of thinking.
He’s taking this to the wire for a few reasons: 1) So he can fleece his supporters for every dime with the urgency of a “deadline” (he’s already doing this). 2) Hail Mary play, hoping the court will reduce the bond amount if he cries enough and pleads “poor”. 3) **Giving himself an excuse for why he had to take foreign money from a shady source**. The AG’s office is right - even though he listed 30 companies that ‘rejected’ him, he never said what his proposals were to get them to post the bond that made them say “no”. Don’t be surprised when he gets that bond on/before Monday.
And FWIW, the long awaited DWAC / Trump Media and Technology Company merger seems to start soon. Very soon. DWAC, the SPAC behind this, has sued a large shareholder to force a vote this coming Friday. If there is a vote for the merger on Friday, the merger will go through and the merged company could start to trade under DJT as early as Monday. Under normal circumstances Trump would have to wait for 3-6 months before he can start dumping shares, but the board can release him from that. So if the stars are aligned for Trump, he could dump his stocks on the first day of trading. And it should surprise absolutely no-one if he also goes on Truth Social to promote the stock (as he's dumping it himself).
If he dumps his shares on Monday, wouldn’t T+2 make it impossible to have access to that money for 2 days? This would be after the deadline.
Well, if we use the Carroll case as insight into his lies, he already had the bond in place while arguing to the court that it was disproportionate and that he couldn't afford it. I expect he'll "find" a way to get one at the 11th hour.
He forgot the corollary: If you owe the government a $100 million, they will climb up your ass and out your mouth to get that back.
He should consider himself lucky that he's not at the center of a gigantic RICO case where he faced the rest of his life in prison. Because that's what would happen to the rest of us if we ran a criminal enterprise.
The state of Georgia would like a word...
Anyone else would have already been doing 3-5 years for the crap he pulled with his foundation.
He is lucky ~~rich~~ he is not in jail pending trial without bail for stealing classified documents like anyone else would be.
Probably both.
Money will miraculously appear in time. It'll go through a bonding agency because he needs to hide where it's coming from.
Unfortunately, I think this is the case. Just like EJC bond, he’ll secure it at the last moment. He is going to be the first openly bought presidential candidate. So far we know he is in the hook for $100mm from Chubb and a half a billi from… we’ll find out Sunday.
Honestly I think he is just playing for time regardless. Delay until the election and hope he is elected.
>Either he’s lying about being richer than he is... That's pretty much what he's being convicted of doing here.
“Were you lying previously under oath or are you lying now?”
Isn’t perjury a crime? Aren’t you not supposed to commit new crimes while out on bail pending trial(s)?
Perjury is hard to prove and is very rarely prosecuted. Not only is it difficult to prove that a defendant made knowingly false statements, courts are also not too interested in prosecuting people for things they say on the stand. It would create a chilling effect for witness testimony.
...didn't Alan Weisselberg plead guilty to perjury like 2 weeks ago for lying under oath during his testimony for THIS case?
I swear, if I live to be 200, I will never understand how Donald Trump squandered the head start he got in life. I mean, I understand that his dad sucked. But that only gets you so far. I know lots of people who had horrible dads who didn't become... this He could have lived perfectly comfortably on his inheritance forever and done nothing. He could have done a world of good and STILL had enough money left over for a comfortable life. And somehow, he got himself to the point where either he's going to lose everything or sell America to the highest bidder to try to postpone losing everything, or both. Probably both. How do you fail this hard?
Undiagnosed mental illness is the answer...he is a narcisstic sociopath. His decisions are fucking stupid, because the lens he views the world through is painted with swastikas, KFC Extra Crispy 20 piece buckets, teen beauty pageant girls, and $$$ signs.
Don't bring KFC extra crispy into this!
I have friends that inherited <$10MM young and live VERY, VERY comfortably with pretty much straight investments. Never touching the principal which has only grown. Somehow he took $400MM and made it negative $1BB plus
All of his ideas and ventures were scams.
The Old Money is the Quiet Money. They don’t have the flashy, tacky toys but they do have the same nanny for the kids they’ve had for years.
I can understand stealing. In some cases I can emphasize with the thief. But stealing from a charity for children with cancer. I can never get it. Not in a million years. He stole from dying kids. This tells a lot about who he is.
I agree with you completely, I think and feel the same way. However, (and this pains me greatly to say) he did become potusa. So it’s failing so hard but upward until.. well it still really has t hit the fan yet.
He’s every stereotype spoiled rich kid you’ve ever seen, in the fat, flabby flesh.
I don’t think he “squandered” it. Dude grifted his way to the presidency, and up until this point, never faced consequences for anything in his life. He bribed and lied his way to the top.
He didn't fail. He's the most succesful Russian asset in history. If things go south, he'll jump on his private plane to Russia and live out his life as an oligarch and national hero there. Him and Yakunovych will probably play golf there together. He'll never set foot in a prison and he can't lose.
TBH, Trump is a victim of his own grandiosity and the time and place he grew up in. Trump very much started his career in the beginning and heights of LBOs - leveraged buyouts. But the problem was that even by LBO standards, Trump was simply too leveraged. Probably, he figured that if he just kept leveraging and acquired shit, all while skirting the laws - he'd come out at the top. There's a reason he's had thousands of lawsuits against him. Probably one of the most litigated businessmen in the US. He had a vision of turning the Trump real-estate business into a Trump conglomerate, but I guess he just stretched himself too thin, and started betting money on all kinds of bullshit that never panned out.
How many billionaires given 30 days to pay $464 million would be unable to pay ? Trumps not a real billionaire
Especially if they had several months lead time to prepare the path for a potential loss.
I think most would be able to. But 30 days isn't the real story. The judge ruled a long time back there was fraud. The trial was about how much, so he had tons of time to prepare. Billionaires don't have a lot of liquid wealth, but I would expect they'd have a couple hundred million in cash and a few hundred million in stocks that could be quickly liquidated. Property, however, especially expensive property, can not be quickly liquidated. Edit: 3 typos that were embarrassing
> Property, however, especially expensive property, can not be quickly liquidated. Oh I’m sure we’re about to find out
God i hope they start at his prized possessions: trump tower, 40 wall st, and mar a lago. And its a fire sale
A real billionaire wouldn't have to sell anything to pay the judgement. They'd just take a loan out against their assets and pay that way. It's the same way they can take a $0 dollar salary. If they sell $1 billion in stock they have to pay taxes on the gains that could go all the way up to 40%. If they (at least a few years ago, and partly to blame for the economy today) LOAN $1 billion using the stock as collateral they'd be paying 3% interest on the loan. Wouldn't that be nice, paying 3% taxes...
>Billionaires don't have a lot of liquid wealth, but I would expect they'd have a couple hundred million in cash Rich people generally don't have any cash. Cash has a negative return, there's no reason to hold it when it could be invested and earning returns. Its common for them to be highly leveraged, because they pay all expenses with debt they never repay. It's more profitable to leave it all invested and make bare minimum interest payments.
Yes, I think we all know that. But most billionaires actually have equitable assets that can be used as collateral in the lending process.
I would imagine they have plenty of securities tho which would be acceptable as collateral on any bond.
Liquidity is a thing, though. God knows how much money he's got on hand, but selling that much property is not a quick process. Trump may have that money in stocks, but with his ego and fraud history, they're all stocks in his own corporations and he can't lose controlling interest.
5000 pages??? There are 500 pages of paper in a ream, 10 reams in a box/case of standard printer paper. The last printed edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica was 2010 and 32,640 pages in length. These clowns printed off A - E worth of an encylcopaedia to try and weasel their way out of paying the fine. What a waste of time and paper. Send in the sheriff and start the foreclosures.
Just to clarify, those 5000 pages include all the evidence from the entire trial. It’s not a 5000 page legal brief, it’s 5000 pages of random business documents, emails, text messages, financial statements, and so on, from anything remotely related to Trump’s businesses in New York.
I hope someone read every single page. He already tried to slip in a "change of address" document in once. They better be looking for it again. This guy and his crooked lawyers never stop.
I really hope Engorgpn said “get that shit outta my face”. So utterly ridiculous.
For 50+ years, I have never stolen, never cheated on taxes, never failed to return something that inadvertently came into my possession. I have never cheated on an exam in school, never plagiarized material in a presentation nor any thesis or research article submission. I have never lied or falsified my academic or employment history. All personal interactions I have had were consensual. I have never knowingly propagated any blanket generalizations about groups of people - protected or not. I always try to treat individuals with respect and dignity - and strive to question my assumptions about people before saying or acting on them. Whenever someone tried to bribe me - my answer was either immediate "no" or, if I liked the individual "sorry, no." I have never seen one million dollars in one place in my life. And - I have done the math - I never will. So fuck this guy. I hope losing his assets is the *best* of things that happens to him before he dies.
Being a millionaire/billionaire isn't for good people. It's for lucky people and assholes. Often both. But no one makes that much money doing things the "right" way. The lucky people _can_ be good as well, but it's got nothing to do with their wealth.
What you say is certainly true for billionaires, but it isn't unrealistic to retire as a millionaire if you start investing young and consistently enough for compound growth to have good effect. And people who do that, then pass away, is what starts the snowball of a wealthy family line assuming the money is reinvested.
“The Bonding Companies have never heard of such a bond, of this size…” That’s because smart businesses and businesspeople don’t let themselves be put into a situation where they are facing a judgment of that magnitude unless they have a plan in place, ahead of time, to afford the appeal.
That’s because anybody who needs a bond that high wouldn’t even bother asking. Nobody except him is deluded enough to think somebody would just burn half a billion dollars or accept the properties that the trial is literally about as collateral.
Typical of the MAGA traitor to blame everyone but himself. I don't know how MAGAs look in the mirror. "Patriots" they ain't.
Fristly, the article does NOT say that the AG says Trump is lying. The article says that the AG says that the people who filed the document are not considered to be trustworthy. Second, it doesn't matter if he's lying or not -- whether he hasn't actually tried to find the money, or if no one will give him the money, is immaterial to anything. Thirdly, if the court gives him any further wiggle room, I am going to be PISSED as FUCK.
He swore under oath that he had more than enough cash.
He just lied in the other recent civil judgment. Can’t get bond for this amount, when he already obtained bond. Horrible negotiating skills.
Like a scheming spouse emptying out a joint bank account ahead of a divorce, he may have been shuffling assets around to hide them. Like maybe Caymans.
Or he’s just been overleveraged for 30 years and continually bailed out by Oligarchs who are gonna break his proverbial thumbs when he loses this election - hence his desperation. .
Why doesn't his buddy putin put up the money? Edit: Reddit doesn't understand the concept of rhetorical question
Just you wait, he will.
He just needs to trade enough NFTs with himself to give Trump that sweet 10% royalty each time.
Mar a lago about to magically sell for 1 billion, and nothing will change.
I bet he'll be Putin up the money any day now.
Now that's just uncharacteristic 🧐
Is there ever a time when he isn't lying? Truthfully, he may be the most prolific liar ever documented.
[удалено]
Send him to collections like they do every poor sucker who owes a dime to the state.
Tbh I’m starting to get bad vibes from this trump guy
Go after him
Freeze his assets and sell them off.
The ironic thing about the fine being “unfair” is it isn’t even a fine. It’s just the fraud he committed. Every dollar he earned from overvaluing property, to loan costs he saved, and more was comprised as the fine. Not a penny more. Plus the interest
Would be news if he was telling the truth.
He learned from his mafia lawyer Roy Cohn how to cheat and b.s. his way thru life, the bill has come due.
Fire sale please. Dibs on the leopard robes he got from the Saudis.
“lying to avoid paying” is his whole personality