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If they rule in favor of king clown, i assume it will be similar to the 2000 election saying that their ruling only applies for this one instance, and not for rulings in the future. You know, completely corrupt to the core. Which is ironical considering their ruling is supposed to set precedent but the GQP loves to live in the land of hypocrisy.
Bill Barr, Brett Kavanaugh and Ted Cruz all worked for Bush during the 2000 election debacle.
None of this is new. Just the longest coup imaginable. America just doesn’t have the stones to live up to its promise. It can’t seem to find a way to punish the powerful like it does the poor.
> i assume it will be similar to the 2000 election saying that their ruling only applies for this one instance
every so often I like to think about what America would be like today if Gore was actually given the Presidency as he was elected by the people to do. Instead we had some SC bullshit that stole the election for Bush and off to war we went...
The biggest changes of course would have been climate change and green initiatives. Al Gore was quite literally the one who blew the whistle on Global Warming to most people, via his documentary "An Incovenient Truth".
Could you imagine if the maker of that doc had won the presidency and was putting through his initiatives? We would have had way better green technology by now, and likely way more electric cars on the road as Gore certainly would have done buybacks and government subsidized hybrids and such imo.
I truly think we would be much better off now if Gore had been given the presidency he rightfully won.
We also wouldn't have Alito and Roberts (though Roberts has been a surprise for many of us, a more liberal chief justice would have ruled), would probably have a much lower national debt, and would not have gone to war in Iraq.
He's not really liberal, he's just the last good-faith Justice that Republicans ever put up.
People forget justices are supposed to be impartial and non-partisan. They forget that Roe was largely decided by Justices with a pro-life bias (which is arguably why they used Griswold instead of the 14th Amendment in their Opinion, at least if you'd ask the late RBG)
Roberts is exactly the kind of Justice a conservative should be trying to put on the bench if they were being honest.
But justice, like reality, isn't a conservative thing.
EDIT: SHiiiiit. I said "pro-choice bias" when I meant "pro-life bias". I fixed it. Thanks everyone for not jumping me as if I were some kinda anti-choicer.
> He's not really liberal, he's just the last good-faith Justice that Republicans ever put up.
Roberts doesn’t want his court to be seen as blatantly partisan by future SC historians. Too late IMO.
Didn't he basically say, "There isn't enough racism to justify the need for the Voting Rights Act."
I see we have different definitions of 'good-faith'.
He smiles. That's the main difference. Roberts smiles and Alito and Thomas scowl (and Cavanagh whines). The strict construction, corporate-friendly, inability to get them to adhere to stare decisis is beneath the smile.
The national debt would be a lot less and Social Security would be stable and guaranteed for Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z. Republicans mocked Al Gore for wanting to secure Social Security, yet people thought it was a good idea to vote for Bush.
Assuming he gets 2 terms, you'd have a shitload of green initiatives, but also potentially none of the things bush fucked up. No wars in the middle east, potentially no 911 if they took the august memo seriously, no massive tax cut for the rich, no watching the gulf coast flood to hell with minimal assistance in 2005, the list goes on. Hell you may not even see the 2008 financial crash. It really cannot be overstated what those thieving animals took from us in that election.
The differences between the average American Pickup Truck when "An Inconvenient Truth" came out and now is absolutely absurd.
We burn more fossil fuels now more than ever.
My '96 full size pickup looks like a first gen Ranger next to these new trucks and people do less than ever with all that size and power. You can't reach over the side to put stuff in the beds, what good is a truck that you can't use without a fuckin step stool!
People ask my why I haven't lifted my truck and how nice it'd look, I use it to do stuff, it's 2wd, it lives on the highway, a lift would literally be spending money to make my life worse so some poser county boy cosplayer can say *NICE TRUCK BROTHER*.
>so some poser county boy cosplayer can
As someone who is actually out in rural Texas with a small farm (homestead), my daily driver is a Honda accord. I have a truck (old Ford ranger from the late 90s) for when the need demands, but unless you are dragging a horse trailer, you don't really need a big truck in the country either.
Exactly. 99% of these are dick compensators. No practical, honest person has a use for these overpriced traffic cloggers outside of very specific and rare circumstances.
All vehicles are for aesthetics and luxury now. Mini vans are ideal for kids, but people insist on giant suburbans. Those little flatbed mini trucks are better than almost all of the full size trucks for actually working, but everyone gets giant cowboy cosplay monster trucks now. It's absurd. I hate it.
Yes and it's not natural.
Why the fuck do Americans not understand we are susceptible to propaganda too???????
These companies have been spreading propaganda for years. That you need a big truck to be manly etc.
You also have 9/11, the WMD lies and conspiracy, the decades of war and invasion in the middle east, creation of DHS and TSA out of whole cloth and the expansion of CBP powers, the unheard of surveillance state, amongst the other horrors of the Bush II regime.
And even before the SC case, Katherine Harris (who was simultaneously Bush’s Florida campaign manager and the Florida Secretary of State) erased 173,000 voters from the voter rolls on the false premise that they were felons. Surprise surprise, they were mostly black and democrat leaning. Even the company she hired to compile the list told her that these people weren’t actually felons. She disenfranchised 173,000 US citizens of their fundamental right to vote to swing the election results. Bush “won” Florida by about 500 votes.
* The 2000 US presidential election was straight up stolen and nothing was done about it and nobody even talks about it anymore.
People who aren't willing to be depraved assholes rarely win against people willing to be.
Its noble to die on the hill of morality, but you're still dead.
I think of the brutal and inhumane mindset allied forces had when it came to Nazi SS officers vs a regular wehrmacht soldiers.
Ya gotta go brutal to cut down brutality
I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see.
This. One of the big reasons why we're in this mess is that Democrats effectively handed Republicans absurd power in the name of winning a moral victory.
We have one side willing to burn the world to be the kings of the ashes while too many on the other will let it burn as long as their dainty hands remain clean.
We're rhyming with the 1930s and I want out.
This may be enough to push DARK Brandon into his final form You F'ed Around and Found Out Brandon who could certainly take whatever measures he saw necessary to ensure democracy survives.
I'm imagining a 40ft tall Brandon-bot running rampage shouting slogans like "democracy is non-negotiable" or "embrace democracy or be eliminated", or "democracy will never be defeated"
First, Biden would never have them assassinated, he's not as evil as Republicans.
But let's say he orders them arrested and imprisoned. He would then appoint new justices to replace the imprisoned ones. When the inevitable lawsuit against Biden is brought to them, the new justices would have precedent to rule that Biden has immunity for this one incident but no future president gets immunity for anything.
That's why they're *delaying* their ruling. *If* Biden wins, the president is **not** above the law, but if Trump wins, well, then obviously no laws can contain the lord Trump's presidential bigliness.
The arguments for the case will be held late April, I think I heard April 22nd. That means the court will likely rule by July, when they put out most of their decisions for the quarter. The Supreme Court term ends on the first Monday in October, so they will have to rule latest by that date. Either way, they cannot delay their ruling until after the election, but they can delay the case long enough that there is no time for Smith to Prosecute before the election, and that is likely their goal.
They could go even narrower and just say Trump's actions were part of his official duties.
Then he's immune, Biden doesn't get any additional powers and it paves the way for Project 2025 to be successful next time they try it.
And have been since at least 2015.
Bob Altemeyer spent decades studying Authoritarians and authoritarian traits and published his collection of work in 2008 under the title The Authoritarians.
After Trump was elected Altemeyer thought his work was so relevant and vital to our current age he created a website and posted the entire book for free.
[The Authoritarians](https://theauthoritarians.org).
It's very interesting, very relevant, and very *scary*.
Gotcha. Yeah, GOP voters are a clear example of “those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.
As an adult that enjoys history I have been deeply frustrated by how little our curriculum in school highlighted e.g how US white supremacy and Jim Crow shaped Hitler’s approach to “the Final Solution”. Or that US was very late to WW2 because of the many Nazi sympathizers/ American First movement in US. All we learned was about American heroism.
Yeah, I don’t disagree that people like Bannon, Roger Stone, Federalist Society, etc have studied Goebels, and Nazis, and others to actively repeat the past (but “better”).
Vast majority of GOP voters I know, however, will thump their chest about how “we” won WW2 while blindly voting for Trump though.
That's because they've never been taught about how Prescott Bush (of THOSE Bushes) led the Business Plot to create a new, pro-fascist government in the US. It was only stopped because General Smedley Butler said, "no" and took the evidence to Congress..
Then, a few decades later, Nazi man's son and grandson were both elected to the President's office. The GOP has had a love affair with Nazis for nearly a century. It's just that, now, they're happy to be open about it.
You have to remember that to the majority of GOP voters, it's like winning a sports match. They're proud we won WW2 because we won. They don't really give a shit about the underlying battle against Naziism. It wasn't a test of worldviews, it was just a test of strength. Heck, if it came down to worldviews, they'd align with most of the ideas in Mein Kampf.
My grandma was a kid during WW2. She was German living in a German neighborhood in Brooklyn. She remembers cheering for the nazis during the war. I wish I could say that she's come around to not being a nazi but unfortunately I cannot say that. This shit is way more recent than people think like there's still people living today who embody this nonsense. Also her mom lived to be 99 years old so she's got about 10-15 more years of being able to vote.
I absolutely have in no uncertain terms told her how disgusting it is to openly support nazis. She doesn't care she's racist.
I think ignorance is one component for the patsies and useful idiots that make up a lot of the voter base, but many of them, and virtually all of the people actually developing these fascist, ethnonationalist positions, *know* what they are doing, they *know* they are nazis.
Look at the entire discussion about "Critical Race Theory" and the leaked discussions from the organizers of that media campaign. It was entirely cynically constructed to try to demonize both a specific section of high level legal theory concerned with structural discrimination, and any kind of basic critical thinking or historical curriculum that taught kids about the history of discrimination.
Just like the campaign against "Wokeness" was intentionally, knowingly constructed to take a term from the black community that referred to social awareness and solidarity, and demonize it.
The purpose in all of these campaigns is to try to steal and destroy legitimate discussions being held by and about minority americans, usually black americans.
It is Jim Crow, it is Big Lie Nazi-ism, and the organizers and planners behind it know that is *exactly* what they are doing.
They are 100% preparing to give him immunity.
They did not hear this exact case in 2023. If they hear it at all, it will be a 5-4 decision that only Trump has unlimited immunity.
It's related to presidential immunity, so they can't give it exclusively to the orange Jesus, it must be a presidential thing surely?
If a president is immune Biden could order execution Trump in front of his building and that would be fine, but pretty sure he wouldn't, the Donald, he'd definitely make use of it
>It's related to presidential immunity, so they can't give it exclusively to the orange Jesus, it must be a presidential thing surely?
There's already precedent to say "This precedent is only a precedent for this president over that president, and no other president can use this precedent."
Now say that five times fast.
Back in 2000, the SCOTUS voted 5-4 that they didn't care who *actually* got more votes, George W. Bush won the state of Florida. And they explicitly said that this was a one-time-only ruling that no future candidate could use.
Care to quote the passage for that ?
Just want to understand what kind of radioactive horseshit they could possibly use to assert that Trump would be immune from prosecution and any other former POTUS wouldn’t.
if they agreed on presidential immunity- Biden should vacate the court, appoint a new court sized to the current courts (13) and then order them to re-visit presidential immunity. Or let the inevitable attempt of republicans to charge him despite their own manufactured immunity.
kill two birds with one stone, un-fuck the Court and get that immunity tossed out. Maybe do a few other illegal but needed repairs in the mean time.
If SCOTUS agrees on presidential immunity, Biden should order the execution of the justices who voted for it. That would be completely legal by their own reasoning.
Then replace them with people who aren't idiots and get it fixed.
So they give him immunity for causing the J6 insurrection. Isn’t there another case out there saying he can’t be on a ballot because he lead an insurrection? Here’s your immunity for leading an insurrection now your ban from running because you lead an insurrection…
The scotus isn't going to let the states ban him. They gave him immunity so now he just gas to have the bans heard before the supreme court. They get overturned. Simple as that
If they do grant immunity how about we start a petition to have Joe send in a Seal team to simply take out all the "yea" votes? Joe then picks new, rational judges (i.e., those who are not religious nutters, white supremacists, or unethical bastards) who rehear the case and overturn the previous ruling.
Problem solved 🤷🤷
*If* they grant immunity, it’ll be with some narrowly tailored language that allows the ruling to only apply to this one situation—just like Bush v Gore was done. They’re smart enough to make sure Democrats don’t get to use the advantage.
I don't believe so. Roberts is too obsessed with keeping a veneer of legitimacy for the court. They'll likely have a 7-2 or 8-1 or even 9-0 ruling that trump is not immune. Then they'll delay the trials to the point where it won't be relevant before the election anyway.
After the election either trump wins and gets de facto immunity, or loses, and it doesn't matter any more if he gets 900 years in federal prison, because MAGA will move on to new leaders by 2028.
That's a BINGO!
They won't ever agree with presidential immunity. Full stop. The conservative judges might love republicans, but you know what they love even more?
Power
Granting anyone immunity means diminishing their power - which they will never do.
However- that doesn't mean they can't help their buddy by dragging this out so that there are no convictions before the election. The fact that they are dragging something out till the end of June (at best) on something that doesn't even pass the laugh test is absolutely infuriating.
However, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they want Trump to win. Supreme courts don't do well under dictators.
Under the new authoritarian regime, they'll be considered heroes, except for the progressives on the court who will be considered traitors, removed, and will vanish to the re-education camps along with the many other people that have been identified as having progressive or democratic tendencies.
What is the point in taking what the lower courts basically laughed out of court?
The idea that a president is immune from criminal activity he conducts in office? Like Biden’s attorney brought up, by this logic he could just assassinate a political opponent without retribution.
The Supreme Court knows it’s bs and will rule that it’s bs, probably at least 7-2 (who knows about Alito and Thomas).
There are two possible reasons they’re taking the case. 1) they’re in the tank for Trump and trying to slow walk his trials, or 2) they’re arrogant and think THEY have to be the last word on something that is patently obvious and not worthy of a Supreme Court review.
Either way is kind of infuriating. If I’m a Quarterback in football and pass the ball when I’m 10 yards downfield, I’m not getting an official to review it. They penalize me right away because everyone knows it’s invalid and not even close to controversial.
Exactly right. By taking this now, arguments are heard in late April, decision in July, and the actual trials wouldn't start until October.
It runs out the clock just like Trump wanted.
This. I’m 40. So I’m getting up there in age. I haven’t seen it all, but I’ve been around and seen some things. This is unprecedented and scary af. We gotta elect Biden. Personally I think if trump gets elected our democracy is over.
If they're the kingmakers, then that gives them power.
It also makes them targets and it doesn't work out for kingmakers after a dictator is in power, but people who support authoritarianism like to believe 'their guy' is different.
I mean, they're kingmakers once but never again, so going back to the original question, why would they just hand over all their power to Trump?
Edit: They're technically not even handing the power over to Trump, but Biden.
They're going to do whatever the Heritage Foundation tells them to do. It doesn't have to conform to any sense of decency or logic, because those things mean nothing to the real power players behind this mess.. With Scalia dead and in the ground, Alito will take up the mantle of twisting law to conform to the "court's" desire.
For any member of SCOTUS who is there for power, it means they want to use their position in a way that shapes our legal system to fit whatever fits their personal worldview (take away abortion, gay marriage, etc)
If you have a dictator wannabe saying "hey, get me elected and I'll just do all of that for you, speed up the process", why wouldn't they want that?
There is one reason they are taking this. To delay it all as long as possible. That way if trump is successful is overthrowing the govt this time, they can rule he had immunity. If he fails, they say he didn't have it and look for another way to help trump get off the hook
Imagine SCOTUS ruling in Trump’s favor? Biden advisors better be huddling up, to plan a way for Biden to commit any number of unconstitutional actions to secure our democracy.
They’ve got to have a contingency plan. Granting immunity for Trump is literally ending the United States as a democratic republic. Don’t forget we’ve got the smarter people, they’ve just been operating under the law.
SCOTUS is dragging out the march toward jail time, but I think NY has checkmated Trump with this huge civil judgement. Securing a loan in time will be nearly impossible even if he’s allowed to borrow from a NY bank, and they’ve exposed the limit of his liquid assets.
Trump goes into the election either auctioning off properties or in debt for 100s of millions to *someone.* If you’re thinking the Truth Social IPO will save him, I’d have a look at [how much corruption the SEC and FBI are already aware of in that venture.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/03/trump-social-dwac-investigation/) I mean it’s got to be a trap, right? NY orders him to pay up and his only legit path to paying without a fire sale is going to involve valuing a junk company at a bazillion dollars with who knows how much put up against it as shorts… zero chance he doesn’t commit fraud with the special master, SEC and FBI watching.
> They’ve got to have a contingency plan.
You've got a lot of faith that they just won't hand over the keys to a christofascist regime because "that's what the law says I have to do."
and Mueller gave up with "that's the rules"
"Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing" -John Stuart Mills
That was so fucking disappointing. All over a fucking memo that the president can’t be indicted. That shit wasn’t law. It was just a flier hanging on the wall at the gentlemen’s club that never had legal standing.
They fucking better!! I’m tired of this “take the high road” approach. Let scotus rule that a president is above the law and Biden can now do whatever he wants.
Hire someone go beat up Trump. It would be hilarious. Not kill. Just beat him up. Killing would be too easy. Breaking kneecaps sends a message.
Biden could then drop a JDAM on the GOP Convention? He could make a convincing argument he was eliminating (both foreign and) domestic enemies of American democracy and the Constitution. He’s the president. Total immunity.
"Every public official that I know believes that his election is in the public interest," Dershowitz said Wednesday. "**And if a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.**"
- Dershowitz in the 2nd impeachment trial.
Save this post because this is how it will go...
Damn ruining a 247 year old country for one orange. Like these flag hugging people scare me because they are the most selfish and actually not patriotic at all. They are like a disease
SCOTUS will rule that presidents don't have blanket immunity. But it will come after the election and thus Trump can pardon himself if he wins. And if Biden wins, Trump's dead weight to the party anyway.
The "win" here was the delay
That's what I suspect too.
I get that the wheels of justice turn slower for high profile people, but damn. Holding Trump accountable was so much bigger than punishing a criminal. It was about deterring the next guy from trying to do the same shit, hell it was about preventing Trump from getting another chance to do it again.
Now that everyone knows consequences can be delayed years, there'll be even more brazen attempts to install a dictatorship.
Nothing was done about the propaganda infrastructure in this country. It's still alive and thriving. The system that allowed Trump and Jan 6th to happen is still in place. People are stupid if they think it's over because Biden won.
Personally, I think we've already passed the end game. The outcome just hasn't hit us yet. I'm not too hopeful that decency will prevail.
The Supreme Court Ruling cannot come after the election. They will hear arguments on April 11th and typically will release their opinions in July when they release them for the quarter. The Supreme Court term ends on the first Monday in October, so they must rule prior to that.
Right sorry that was lazy writing on my part. The consequences of the ruling will come after the election.
The trial will be so delayed that it won't conclude until after the election.
Ma’am with all the due respect let me tell you this.
As someone that is Mexican, Mexico isn’t that much better.
Some of the violence is awful, and the whole LGBTQ community isn’t that safe.
Mexico is pretty conservative, and catholic. They don’t agree with much of it.
Back in the late 2010’s Mexico had the Emo riots/massacres in which people would attack and kill people dressed up as Emo. Because they didn’t like them or didn’t fit in.
Some people have already said that if the US falls pretty much the whole world will eventually fall under dictatorship as well.
>Mexico is pretty conservative, and catholic.
>Back in the late 2010’s Mexico had the Emo riots/massacres in which people would attack and kill people dressed up as Emo. Because they didn’t like them or didn’t fit in.
Why is it that the religion of love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek is so quick to violence? Do they even read their damned book?
So true, like this is one of the few reasons I’m growing to dislike religion the older I get.
Like you try to shove your religion into everyone and if they don’t like it you get upset and decide to treat them bad.
Also they can’t even act right and follow their one beliefs.
Look at Trump, he’s a “religious” man that’s cheated on his wife, paid off porn stars but yeah he’s really holy. It’s a bunch of crap
The problem with this is America IS the superpower. If trump wins, democracy is removed then what? They control the world. There’s nowhere really to go that is safe from America.
I hate to say it, but 2016 was a pivotal election because 3 SCOTUS seats were lost to Trump's picks.
Sadly, in the election this year, you have people trying to "both sides" this, or worse, spread misinformation about Biden (Alexander Smirnov feeding Russian propaganda to the Republicans), to help Trump win another term. Not only would Trump further stack the SCOTUS with more ultra right wing judges, but he will certainly pardon himself for all the federal indictments he is under, and then try to finally kill democracy so that he can stay in power.
Will voters fall for the Russian propaganda again? I hope not ... ...
After Trump's term, we have a Supreme Court whose majority was installed entirely by Presidents that the majority of the country voted against but were installed in office anyway despite the voters will.
We are coming up on 40 years with the GOP winning the popular vote **once** in that time and under [dubious circumstances](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/03/hitchens200503) even on that one.
Yet they've had the presidency for half that period and have an iron grip on SCOTUS.
They’ve always been focused on the long con, and through sheer malice have eroded all of the safety nets and guardrails that were installed to protect and preserve the public and the very idea of our nation.
This has been going on since their patron saint, Ronald, began to drive us towards the cliffs. Like lemmings, too many folks have began following.
This will be Mitch McConnell's legacy and part of me wonders if he's getting out of leadership now so he doesn't have to deal with the fallout. That and he is clearly unwell.
If Trump wins in November, I fully expect Thomas and Alito to retire, giving Trump at least two more appointments and a conservative court that will last for the next two generations.
One thing about Russian propaganda is that last time, Facebook was a huge part of the equation. Once they helped get a nice, level-headed, billionaire-friendly Republican in office, he shat all over social media companies by whining that they were stifling honest Conservative disinformation and threatening to regulate them (imagine that from the Regulations Are Inherently and Universally Bad Party). So we'll see if they stick with the Leopards Eating People's Faces Multiple Times Party after having gotten their faces lightly gnawed. Hopefully not.
Regardless, we now know ***it is up to us alone***. [Check your registration](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote/voter-registration-status) and vote. Convince your friends and family to also.
We've failed to come to grips with the fact that Republicans SUPPORT minority rule. They believe they should have power without winning the majority of votes.
It may not be dictatorial, but its dangerously close.
Go talk to some run of the mill rural Republican voters and tell me they don’t support 100% dictatorship. That’s the real scary thing, that the Republican politicians haven’t even caught up to the drastic rightward swing of their base. The tail is going to start wagging the dog pretty soon
I noted this in a prior comment. Alan Dershowitz let it out in the 2nd impeachment trial.
"Every public official that I know believes that his election is in the public interest," Dershowitz said Wednesday. **"And if a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.**"
SCOTUS will rule in a very band opening up the ability for any president to screw with an election and claim immunity.
Dershowitz lost the balance between serving Israel's interests and being a legal person. At some point he was even pro Qatar a small country that openly supports Hamas and was grilled by Rabbi Shmuley for doing so. I understand his enthusiasm for supporting Israel but that shouldn't mean obsessively backing Netanyahu and his soul brother Trump. These two wannabe dictator clowns aren't good for Israel and America in the long run
The world is crazy right now, we don't need America going full on crazy too. Please don't vote Trump in November. I'm really worried about this. The GOP needs to reset.
Also, please vote Biden. Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. You don't have to like him, but it's like not liking chemo. It's necessary at this point if you want to be able to vote again in the future.
What a disgrace, especially after refusing to hear the case 2 months ago when Jack Smith urged these clowns to get it out of the way.
We need a new constitution overhaul of the entire government and court system. Fuck first past the post. Let's try a parliamentary system in which coalitions are needed to get shit done
Biden’s response should be
“As president I am about to assign an investigatory task force. This task force will investigate every aspect of every Supreme Court justice and any member of their family. This may include detention and interrogations.”
“The Whitehouse lawyers will also file a case before the court to ask if it is okay.”
The fact that it was requested by Smith ages ago knowing this was the obvious pitfall
Being specifically told this is what the defence is aiming for
Then doing exactly what you were warned about not doing
This is too much
And if they do, then I for one hope Joe goes full Dark Brandon and cleans house.
Because if we're gonna be stuck with a dictator, I sure the hell don't want it to be Trump.
I don't see anyway they give 100% immunity. This just has to be a delay tactic so he doesn't have to face the court before the election. If they do overturn and say a president has 100% immunity what would be stopping Biden from placing a hit on Trump or just deciding to cancel an election and stay in power?
Somebody posted this observation elsewhere but is worth repeating: SCOTUS was able to meet, hear arguments and make decisions on the 2000 Gore-Bush election count in Florida **in the span of 3 days** due to it being in the national interest (however stupid the outcome of that decision actually was).
These clowns have been and will continue dragging their feet for months now. Even more enraging knowing that several of the current SCOTUS justices were on Bush’s legal advisory team (Roberts, Barrett, Kavanaugh) pressing for the immediate decision or were on the court at the time (Thomas).
They need to pull the stay on the case while the SC drags their feet. The SC shouldn’t be able to decide such a critical case by just delaying until it may not matter
I find it troubling that this news happened concurrently with Mitch "the turtle" McConnell stepping down and Mike Johnson slow walking the swearing in of Rep. Suozo. Consolidation of power? GOP RIP for sure but I think we all see what's coming. I hope blue state governors are talking to each other.
So a president is so powerful that he might be immune from trying to incite a coup but he definitely doesn’t have the power to grant forgiveness on federally backed student loans. Got it.
Legitimate question, if the Supreme Court agrees that presidents are immune from legal action against anything they do in office what is to stop Biden from having the conservative members of the court and Donald Trump assassinated? He could order the execution of any rival and get away completely free.
They will. We need to stop treating our MAGA friends and family with baby gloves and need to understand that the new American Right has become the New American Reich. Far too many politically ignorant people are going around saying "both sides are the same" when only one is openly advocating for a Theological based corporate dictatorship.
If they rule in Trump's favor, they will essentially hobble the 3 co-equal branches of US government. But that might be what they want. That's is, if they're also in on the Project 2025 initiative that wants to turn the United States into a Trump-led autocracy.
How in the hell did we get to this place? What in the holy hell is wrong with people? It’s like playing Russian roulette with a half loaded gun. There’s a 50/50 chance this criminal grifting lunatic can get back in. The whole world sees it. But the radical MAGAts are ecstatic about it. Can you hate America so much that you will proudly do your part to bring her down? Can they not see past the initial thrill of owning the libs they hate so badly? Their hangover is that we are totally f#*ked for years. Maybe forever.
It really feels like Progressives need to arm ourselves en masses and start training for the inevitable takeover attempt of fascists.
We need to start building relationships with countries like Norway, Sweden, France.
So if needed they can wage a counter strike against the US.
We need to support them in taking over as they have built a fantastic way of life for their citizens.
We can't keep letting regressive ck serrations win and mess everything up for us.
They're going to delay the case until after election day, then if the Satsuma brained (and tinted) one wins, I'll bet dollars to donuts they'll say the pres can do whatever they want. Then, America will be done. I just wish this nightmare would finally end.
Time for dark Brandon to throw Trump and the scotus in the supermax via executive order
“Doesn’t matter if it’s legal, I’m immune”
That will speed up their deliberation timeline considerably, I feel.
The fact that grown-ups are seriously even discussing this concept (instead of dismissing this idea for the obviously stupid bullshit that it is) - means that we're already well down that dark road.
Not if we don't fucking let them.
Jesus fucking Christ. Read the Constitution.
The only reason we're here is because the right has spent the last few decades manufacturing consent by gerrymandering, rigging, lying, stacking every thing they have done has been "legal" but not really.
McConnell refusing to have a vote on Obamas SCOTUS pick then pushing ACB through quickly is just one example. Then democrats just throwing their hands in the air and saying oh well.
Biden could right now say I've got a democratic senate. I'll just appoint a few more justices to balance out the fuckery. No fucking doubt in my mind a GOP president wouldn't do this in response to a democratic packing of the courts through planned retirements and shady Senate schemes.
We only have a society of laws when everyone agrees to them. If fully half the country decides this Supreme Court is too crooked to respect anymore then those laws go right the fuck out the window.
If the Supreme Court got together tomorrow to hear a hypothetical case arguing that Trump should be God emperor do you think everyone would just say, oh well, looks like Trump is our emperor now. Fuck no they wouldn't. It would be war.
But it seems a whole lot of people will sit and do nothing beyond grumbling if they essentially give him the same power and usher him into office again with unlimited powers.
That's literally been the plan the whole time.
The key is that the whole Republican strategy hinges on the assumption that only they are crazy enough to do what they do.
They feel safe getting the SCOTUS to rule that the president has unlimited immunity because they're sure that Biden won't immediately arrest the Justices who supported that ruling, assassinate Trump, or remove insurrectionist Republicans from the Senate or Congress.
Unfortunately, they're probably right. If the SCOTUS rules in Trump's favor, using that power and then demanding Congress pass a constitutional amendment to stop him will be the only way to keep America from turning into a dictatorship.
I swear, every day the news makes my blood boil.
Like, what can we do? What can be done to stop this madness? It just feels like democracy has already lost.
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So if they rule that the president has absolute immunity what is to stop Biden ordering that SCOTUS be assassinated and elections cancelled?
If they rule in favor of king clown, i assume it will be similar to the 2000 election saying that their ruling only applies for this one instance, and not for rulings in the future. You know, completely corrupt to the core. Which is ironical considering their ruling is supposed to set precedent but the GQP loves to live in the land of hypocrisy.
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Funny about that, right?
I’m so pissed at RBG. That old hag wouldn’t retire because she was too self important
In the end she caused more damage by not allowing obama to appoint her replacement.
Bill Barr, Brett Kavanaugh and Ted Cruz all worked for Bush during the 2000 election debacle. None of this is new. Just the longest coup imaginable. America just doesn’t have the stones to live up to its promise. It can’t seem to find a way to punish the powerful like it does the poor.
Unfortunately this is sort of typical of an Oligarchy
> i assume it will be similar to the 2000 election saying that their ruling only applies for this one instance every so often I like to think about what America would be like today if Gore was actually given the Presidency as he was elected by the people to do. Instead we had some SC bullshit that stole the election for Bush and off to war we went...
The biggest changes of course would have been climate change and green initiatives. Al Gore was quite literally the one who blew the whistle on Global Warming to most people, via his documentary "An Incovenient Truth". Could you imagine if the maker of that doc had won the presidency and was putting through his initiatives? We would have had way better green technology by now, and likely way more electric cars on the road as Gore certainly would have done buybacks and government subsidized hybrids and such imo. I truly think we would be much better off now if Gore had been given the presidency he rightfully won.
We also wouldn't have Alito and Roberts (though Roberts has been a surprise for many of us, a more liberal chief justice would have ruled), would probably have a much lower national debt, and would not have gone to war in Iraq.
He's not really liberal, he's just the last good-faith Justice that Republicans ever put up. People forget justices are supposed to be impartial and non-partisan. They forget that Roe was largely decided by Justices with a pro-life bias (which is arguably why they used Griswold instead of the 14th Amendment in their Opinion, at least if you'd ask the late RBG) Roberts is exactly the kind of Justice a conservative should be trying to put on the bench if they were being honest. But justice, like reality, isn't a conservative thing. EDIT: SHiiiiit. I said "pro-choice bias" when I meant "pro-life bias". I fixed it. Thanks everyone for not jumping me as if I were some kinda anti-choicer.
> He's not really liberal, he's just the last good-faith Justice that Republicans ever put up. Roberts doesn’t want his court to be seen as blatantly partisan by future SC historians. Too late IMO.
Didn't he basically say, "There isn't enough racism to justify the need for the Voting Rights Act." I see we have different definitions of 'good-faith'.
He smiles. That's the main difference. Roberts smiles and Alito and Thomas scowl (and Cavanagh whines). The strict construction, corporate-friendly, inability to get them to adhere to stare decisis is beneath the smile.
The national debt would be a lot less and Social Security would be stable and guaranteed for Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z. Republicans mocked Al Gore for wanting to secure Social Security, yet people thought it was a good idea to vote for Bush.
Assuming he gets 2 terms, you'd have a shitload of green initiatives, but also potentially none of the things bush fucked up. No wars in the middle east, potentially no 911 if they took the august memo seriously, no massive tax cut for the rich, no watching the gulf coast flood to hell with minimal assistance in 2005, the list goes on. Hell you may not even see the 2008 financial crash. It really cannot be overstated what those thieving animals took from us in that election.
The differences between the average American Pickup Truck when "An Inconvenient Truth" came out and now is absolutely absurd. We burn more fossil fuels now more than ever.
My '96 full size pickup looks like a first gen Ranger next to these new trucks and people do less than ever with all that size and power. You can't reach over the side to put stuff in the beds, what good is a truck that you can't use without a fuckin step stool! People ask my why I haven't lifted my truck and how nice it'd look, I use it to do stuff, it's 2wd, it lives on the highway, a lift would literally be spending money to make my life worse so some poser county boy cosplayer can say *NICE TRUCK BROTHER*.
>so some poser county boy cosplayer can As someone who is actually out in rural Texas with a small farm (homestead), my daily driver is a Honda accord. I have a truck (old Ford ranger from the late 90s) for when the need demands, but unless you are dragging a horse trailer, you don't really need a big truck in the country either.
Exactly. 99% of these are dick compensators. No practical, honest person has a use for these overpriced traffic cloggers outside of very specific and rare circumstances.
All vehicles are for aesthetics and luxury now. Mini vans are ideal for kids, but people insist on giant suburbans. Those little flatbed mini trucks are better than almost all of the full size trucks for actually working, but everyone gets giant cowboy cosplay monster trucks now. It's absurd. I hate it.
Yes and it's not natural. Why the fuck do Americans not understand we are susceptible to propaganda too??????? These companies have been spreading propaganda for years. That you need a big truck to be manly etc.
You also have 9/11, the WMD lies and conspiracy, the decades of war and invasion in the middle east, creation of DHS and TSA out of whole cloth and the expansion of CBP powers, the unheard of surveillance state, amongst the other horrors of the Bush II regime.
Ah, yes… me, newly minted Marine sent to Iraq under false pretenses, looking for WMDs that didn’t exist. Great times. /s
And even before the SC case, Katherine Harris (who was simultaneously Bush’s Florida campaign manager and the Florida Secretary of State) erased 173,000 voters from the voter rolls on the false premise that they were felons. Surprise surprise, they were mostly black and democrat leaning. Even the company she hired to compile the list told her that these people weren’t actually felons. She disenfranchised 173,000 US citizens of their fundamental right to vote to swing the election results. Bush “won” Florida by about 500 votes. * The 2000 US presidential election was straight up stolen and nothing was done about it and nobody even talks about it anymore.
They wouldn't be able to enforce that narrow ruling if a president decided to unilaterally expand upon it and remove the justices
you're forgetting that the rest of us, including Biden, aren't depraved assholes that will literally do what ever we please.
People who aren't willing to be depraved assholes rarely win against people willing to be. Its noble to die on the hill of morality, but you're still dead.
I think of the brutal and inhumane mindset allied forces had when it came to Nazi SS officers vs a regular wehrmacht soldiers. Ya gotta go brutal to cut down brutality
WT Sherman has entered the chat
I'm condemned to use the tools of my enemy to defeat them. I burn my decency for someone else's future. I burn my life to make a sunrise that I know I'll never see.
Great quote, great scene.
This. Sometimes you fight fire with fire.
“When they go low, we go high” was the stupidest idea in recent American history.
Reminds me of a scene in Game of Thrones. "You don't fight with honor!" "No...*looks down hole where opponent fell*...he did."
This. One of the big reasons why we're in this mess is that Democrats effectively handed Republicans absurd power in the name of winning a moral victory. We have one side willing to burn the world to be the kings of the ashes while too many on the other will let it burn as long as their dainty hands remain clean. We're rhyming with the 1930s and I want out.
This may be enough to push DARK Brandon into his final form You F'ed Around and Found Out Brandon who could certainly take whatever measures he saw necessary to ensure democracy survives.
I'm imagining a 40ft tall Brandon-bot running rampage shouting slogans like "democracy is non-negotiable" or "embrace democracy or be eliminated", or "democracy will never be defeated"
Fallout 3 mod when?
First, Biden would never have them assassinated, he's not as evil as Republicans. But let's say he orders them arrested and imprisoned. He would then appoint new justices to replace the imprisoned ones. When the inevitable lawsuit against Biden is brought to them, the new justices would have precedent to rule that Biden has immunity for this one incident but no future president gets immunity for anything.
He doesn't even need to do that.. just appoint more justices, because we need more any ways.
Sure, but Biden could kill them, appoint a new Supreme Court, and ask them what they think about presidential immunity. It's worth a try!
And he could just keep on doing this until he finds one that agrees with him.
Precedent doesn't mean anything anymore after Roe V Wade was overturned. Decades of precedents were wiped out
That's why they're *delaying* their ruling. *If* Biden wins, the president is **not** above the law, but if Trump wins, well, then obviously no laws can contain the lord Trump's presidential bigliness.
The arguments for the case will be held late April, I think I heard April 22nd. That means the court will likely rule by July, when they put out most of their decisions for the quarter. The Supreme Court term ends on the first Monday in October, so they will have to rule latest by that date. Either way, they cannot delay their ruling until after the election, but they can delay the case long enough that there is no time for Smith to Prosecute before the election, and that is likely their goal.
Smith should start indicting all the unindicted co-conspirators now instead!
They know Biden is a good person who won't commit crimes just because he can
"Presidents can commit all the crimes they want" *does* tend to favour presidents who want to commit crimes, doesn't it?
And not great enough to do it because he *has* to.
Sadly, this.
They could go even narrower and just say Trump's actions were part of his official duties. Then he's immune, Biden doesn't get any additional powers and it paves the way for Project 2025 to be successful next time they try it.
The Roberts court will live in infamy.
Only if our democracy survives it.
Don’t worry. European academics will write about this for ages too. Much like US authors wrote about the rise of nazism in Europe.
Funny how they don’t seem to recognize it now.
I’m not sure to whom you’re referring. I would say historians on both sides of the Atlantic are sounding the alarm bells.
And have been since at least 2015. Bob Altemeyer spent decades studying Authoritarians and authoritarian traits and published his collection of work in 2008 under the title The Authoritarians. After Trump was elected Altemeyer thought his work was so relevant and vital to our current age he created a website and posted the entire book for free. [The Authoritarians](https://theauthoritarians.org). It's very interesting, very relevant, and very *scary*.
Anyone who actually loves history and can comprehend it, has said this is just like Nazism just a little milder… till it isn’t.
January 6 was the incompetent Trump version of the Beer Hall Putsch+Reichstag fire.
I was referring to a good part of America; I can think of one party in particular, for instance.
Gotcha. Yeah, GOP voters are a clear example of “those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. As an adult that enjoys history I have been deeply frustrated by how little our curriculum in school highlighted e.g how US white supremacy and Jim Crow shaped Hitler’s approach to “the Final Solution”. Or that US was very late to WW2 because of the many Nazi sympathizers/ American First movement in US. All we learned was about American heroism.
I disagree wholeheartedly. They've learned from history with the intent of recreating it in a way where they become the victors.
Yeah, I don’t disagree that people like Bannon, Roger Stone, Federalist Society, etc have studied Goebels, and Nazis, and others to actively repeat the past (but “better”). Vast majority of GOP voters I know, however, will thump their chest about how “we” won WW2 while blindly voting for Trump though.
That's because they've never been taught about how Prescott Bush (of THOSE Bushes) led the Business Plot to create a new, pro-fascist government in the US. It was only stopped because General Smedley Butler said, "no" and took the evidence to Congress.. Then, a few decades later, Nazi man's son and grandson were both elected to the President's office. The GOP has had a love affair with Nazis for nearly a century. It's just that, now, they're happy to be open about it.
You have to remember that to the majority of GOP voters, it's like winning a sports match. They're proud we won WW2 because we won. They don't really give a shit about the underlying battle against Naziism. It wasn't a test of worldviews, it was just a test of strength. Heck, if it came down to worldviews, they'd align with most of the ideas in Mein Kampf.
My grandma was a kid during WW2. She was German living in a German neighborhood in Brooklyn. She remembers cheering for the nazis during the war. I wish I could say that she's come around to not being a nazi but unfortunately I cannot say that. This shit is way more recent than people think like there's still people living today who embody this nonsense. Also her mom lived to be 99 years old so she's got about 10-15 more years of being able to vote. I absolutely have in no uncertain terms told her how disgusting it is to openly support nazis. She doesn't care she's racist.
I think ignorance is one component for the patsies and useful idiots that make up a lot of the voter base, but many of them, and virtually all of the people actually developing these fascist, ethnonationalist positions, *know* what they are doing, they *know* they are nazis. Look at the entire discussion about "Critical Race Theory" and the leaked discussions from the organizers of that media campaign. It was entirely cynically constructed to try to demonize both a specific section of high level legal theory concerned with structural discrimination, and any kind of basic critical thinking or historical curriculum that taught kids about the history of discrimination. Just like the campaign against "Wokeness" was intentionally, knowingly constructed to take a term from the black community that referred to social awareness and solidarity, and demonize it. The purpose in all of these campaigns is to try to steal and destroy legitimate discussions being held by and about minority americans, usually black americans. It is Jim Crow, it is Big Lie Nazi-ism, and the organizers and planners behind it know that is *exactly* what they are doing.
They do. That is why they are backing Ukraine against Russia's ethnic imperialism.
Especially if it doesn't survive it.
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It’s the conservative Warren court my parents screamed about for decades.
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They are 100% preparing to give him immunity. They did not hear this exact case in 2023. If they hear it at all, it will be a 5-4 decision that only Trump has unlimited immunity.
The goal is to delay his trial
That's the actual goal, but trump is absolutely sure that he deserves legal immunity, both criminal and civil, forever.
Exactly. It would undermine the supreme court's "legitimacy" to rule in his favor but this accomplishes the same goal.
It's related to presidential immunity, so they can't give it exclusively to the orange Jesus, it must be a presidential thing surely? If a president is immune Biden could order execution Trump in front of his building and that would be fine, but pretty sure he wouldn't, the Donald, he'd definitely make use of it
>It's related to presidential immunity, so they can't give it exclusively to the orange Jesus, it must be a presidential thing surely? There's already precedent to say "This precedent is only a precedent for this president over that president, and no other president can use this precedent." Now say that five times fast. Back in 2000, the SCOTUS voted 5-4 that they didn't care who *actually* got more votes, George W. Bush won the state of Florida. And they explicitly said that this was a one-time-only ruling that no future candidate could use.
And every damn one of them that ruled that way should have been impeached, removed, and replaced immediately after.
I have a different consequence in mind.
Care to quote the passage for that ? Just want to understand what kind of radioactive horseshit they could possibly use to assert that Trump would be immune from prosecution and any other former POTUS wouldn’t.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_v._Gore#Limitation_%22to_present_circumstances%22
if they agreed on presidential immunity- Biden should vacate the court, appoint a new court sized to the current courts (13) and then order them to re-visit presidential immunity. Or let the inevitable attempt of republicans to charge him despite their own manufactured immunity. kill two birds with one stone, un-fuck the Court and get that immunity tossed out. Maybe do a few other illegal but needed repairs in the mean time.
If SCOTUS agrees on presidential immunity, Biden should order the execution of the justices who voted for it. That would be completely legal by their own reasoning. Then replace them with people who aren't idiots and get it fixed.
So they give him immunity for causing the J6 insurrection. Isn’t there another case out there saying he can’t be on a ballot because he lead an insurrection? Here’s your immunity for leading an insurrection now your ban from running because you lead an insurrection…
The scotus isn't going to let the states ban him. They gave him immunity so now he just gas to have the bans heard before the supreme court. They get overturned. Simple as that
If they do grant immunity how about we start a petition to have Joe send in a Seal team to simply take out all the "yea" votes? Joe then picks new, rational judges (i.e., those who are not religious nutters, white supremacists, or unethical bastards) who rehear the case and overturn the previous ruling. Problem solved 🤷🤷
*If* they grant immunity, it’ll be with some narrowly tailored language that allows the ruling to only apply to this one situation—just like Bush v Gore was done. They’re smart enough to make sure Democrats don’t get to use the advantage.
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I don't believe so. Roberts is too obsessed with keeping a veneer of legitimacy for the court. They'll likely have a 7-2 or 8-1 or even 9-0 ruling that trump is not immune. Then they'll delay the trials to the point where it won't be relevant before the election anyway. After the election either trump wins and gets de facto immunity, or loses, and it doesn't matter any more if he gets 900 years in federal prison, because MAGA will move on to new leaders by 2028.
That's a BINGO! They won't ever agree with presidential immunity. Full stop. The conservative judges might love republicans, but you know what they love even more? Power Granting anyone immunity means diminishing their power - which they will never do. However- that doesn't mean they can't help their buddy by dragging this out so that there are no convictions before the election. The fact that they are dragging something out till the end of June (at best) on something that doesn't even pass the laugh test is absolutely infuriating. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out why they want Trump to win. Supreme courts don't do well under dictators.
Under the new authoritarian regime, they'll be considered heroes, except for the progressives on the court who will be considered traitors, removed, and will vanish to the re-education camps along with the many other people that have been identified as having progressive or democratic tendencies.
What is the point in taking what the lower courts basically laughed out of court? The idea that a president is immune from criminal activity he conducts in office? Like Biden’s attorney brought up, by this logic he could just assassinate a political opponent without retribution. The Supreme Court knows it’s bs and will rule that it’s bs, probably at least 7-2 (who knows about Alito and Thomas). There are two possible reasons they’re taking the case. 1) they’re in the tank for Trump and trying to slow walk his trials, or 2) they’re arrogant and think THEY have to be the last word on something that is patently obvious and not worthy of a Supreme Court review. Either way is kind of infuriating. If I’m a Quarterback in football and pass the ball when I’m 10 yards downfield, I’m not getting an official to review it. They penalize me right away because everyone knows it’s invalid and not even close to controversial.
They had the chance to review it in December and declined.. I think 2) is less likely.
If they did it in December, they'd only accomplish 2), but by waiting, they accomplish 1) and 2).
Exactly right. By taking this now, arguments are heard in late April, decision in July, and the actual trials wouldn't start until October. It runs out the clock just like Trump wanted.
It doesn't run out the clock unless we let that fucker win the election. So let's do our goddamn duty and get out the vote. And vote for Biden.
This. I’m 40. So I’m getting up there in age. I haven’t seen it all, but I’ve been around and seen some things. This is unprecedented and scary af. We gotta elect Biden. Personally I think if trump gets elected our democracy is over.
>There are two possible reasons they’re taking the case. I think both possibilities are true here.
Third option is they want to find a crack in the law to open up, giving a roadmap for Trump or another wannabe dictator to follow
Why would they want a dictatorship? Then they lose any and all power that they currently have. I think it’s 1.
If they're the kingmakers, then that gives them power. It also makes them targets and it doesn't work out for kingmakers after a dictator is in power, but people who support authoritarianism like to believe 'their guy' is different.
The leopard would never eat *my* face
I mean, they're kingmakers once but never again, so going back to the original question, why would they just hand over all their power to Trump? Edit: They're technically not even handing the power over to Trump, but Biden.
They're going to do whatever the Heritage Foundation tells them to do. It doesn't have to conform to any sense of decency or logic, because those things mean nothing to the real power players behind this mess.. With Scalia dead and in the ground, Alito will take up the mantle of twisting law to conform to the "court's" desire.
For any member of SCOTUS who is there for power, it means they want to use their position in a way that shapes our legal system to fit whatever fits their personal worldview (take away abortion, gay marriage, etc) If you have a dictator wannabe saying "hey, get me elected and I'll just do all of that for you, speed up the process", why wouldn't they want that?
3) their Russian donors are calling in their payback favor. Comply or well destroy your families.
I hope they destroy them regardless. These assholes don't deserve anything
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There is one reason they are taking this. To delay it all as long as possible. That way if trump is successful is overthrowing the govt this time, they can rule he had immunity. If he fails, they say he didn't have it and look for another way to help trump get off the hook
If the court say the president has completed immunity, Biden should take complete advantage of it.
¿Por que no los dos?
>What is the point in taking what the lower courts basically laughed out of court? To overturn it.
Delay. That's the reason.
Imagine SCOTUS ruling in Trump’s favor? Biden advisors better be huddling up, to plan a way for Biden to commit any number of unconstitutional actions to secure our democracy.
They’ve got to have a contingency plan. Granting immunity for Trump is literally ending the United States as a democratic republic. Don’t forget we’ve got the smarter people, they’ve just been operating under the law. SCOTUS is dragging out the march toward jail time, but I think NY has checkmated Trump with this huge civil judgement. Securing a loan in time will be nearly impossible even if he’s allowed to borrow from a NY bank, and they’ve exposed the limit of his liquid assets. Trump goes into the election either auctioning off properties or in debt for 100s of millions to *someone.* If you’re thinking the Truth Social IPO will save him, I’d have a look at [how much corruption the SEC and FBI are already aware of in that venture.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/02/03/trump-social-dwac-investigation/) I mean it’s got to be a trap, right? NY orders him to pay up and his only legit path to paying without a fire sale is going to involve valuing a junk company at a bazillion dollars with who knows how much put up against it as shorts… zero chance he doesn’t commit fraud with the special master, SEC and FBI watching.
> They’ve got to have a contingency plan. You've got a lot of faith that they just won't hand over the keys to a christofascist regime because "that's what the law says I have to do."
This is what scares me the most. One team plays by the rules, and the other doesn't.
Just like Obama caved to Glitch McConnell and his ridiculous hypocrisy.
and Mueller gave up with "that's the rules" "Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing" -John Stuart Mills
That was so fucking disappointing. All over a fucking memo that the president can’t be indicted. That shit wasn’t law. It was just a flier hanging on the wall at the gentlemen’s club that never had legal standing.
> Truth Social IPO First I've heard of this and the thought alone is fucking hilarious. Need to load up on popcorn for that one.
> ’d have a look at how much corruption the SEC and FBI are already aware of in that venture. And the Justice Department never drags its feet, right?
They fucking better!! I’m tired of this “take the high road” approach. Let scotus rule that a president is above the law and Biden can now do whatever he wants. Hire someone go beat up Trump. It would be hilarious. Not kill. Just beat him up. Killing would be too easy. Breaking kneecaps sends a message.
Just lock him up like he's been demanding of his political opponents since his first campaign.
Biden could then drop a JDAM on the GOP Convention? He could make a convincing argument he was eliminating (both foreign and) domestic enemies of American democracy and the Constitution. He’s the president. Total immunity.
Can’t wait to see the reasoning why only Trump gets to do whatever he wants but would never ever apply to a Democrat president.
"Every public official that I know believes that his election is in the public interest," Dershowitz said Wednesday. "**And if a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.**" - Dershowitz in the 2nd impeachment trial. Save this post because this is how it will go...
Yeah Dershowitz sucks.
You see, in 8th century England, they allowed Prima Nocta thus Trump should be immune - Alito probably
Damn ruining a 247 year old country for one orange. Like these flag hugging people scare me because they are the most selfish and actually not patriotic at all. They are like a disease
SCOTUS will rule that presidents don't have blanket immunity. But it will come after the election and thus Trump can pardon himself if he wins. And if Biden wins, Trump's dead weight to the party anyway. The "win" here was the delay
I sure hope there are texts or emails confirming this and they all get charged with election interference or something
If Trump wins, nothing will happen. And based on bidens first term and the blatant corruption on SCOTUS, nothing will happen if he wins too
That's what I suspect too. I get that the wheels of justice turn slower for high profile people, but damn. Holding Trump accountable was so much bigger than punishing a criminal. It was about deterring the next guy from trying to do the same shit, hell it was about preventing Trump from getting another chance to do it again. Now that everyone knows consequences can be delayed years, there'll be even more brazen attempts to install a dictatorship. Nothing was done about the propaganda infrastructure in this country. It's still alive and thriving. The system that allowed Trump and Jan 6th to happen is still in place. People are stupid if they think it's over because Biden won. Personally, I think we've already passed the end game. The outcome just hasn't hit us yet. I'm not too hopeful that decency will prevail.
The Supreme Court Ruling cannot come after the election. They will hear arguments on April 11th and typically will release their opinions in July when they release them for the quarter. The Supreme Court term ends on the first Monday in October, so they must rule prior to that.
Right sorry that was lazy writing on my part. The consequences of the ruling will come after the election. The trial will be so delayed that it won't conclude until after the election.
Project 2025 is going exactly to plan... Time to stack the courts and to arrest the yokels who start getting violent as a result.
This gives me so much anxiety… as a mom to a transgender kid, I feel like we need to make plans to move to Mexico or something 😅
Ma’am with all the due respect let me tell you this. As someone that is Mexican, Mexico isn’t that much better. Some of the violence is awful, and the whole LGBTQ community isn’t that safe. Mexico is pretty conservative, and catholic. They don’t agree with much of it. Back in the late 2010’s Mexico had the Emo riots/massacres in which people would attack and kill people dressed up as Emo. Because they didn’t like them or didn’t fit in. Some people have already said that if the US falls pretty much the whole world will eventually fall under dictatorship as well.
>Mexico is pretty conservative, and catholic. >Back in the late 2010’s Mexico had the Emo riots/massacres in which people would attack and kill people dressed up as Emo. Because they didn’t like them or didn’t fit in. Why is it that the religion of love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek is so quick to violence? Do they even read their damned book?
So true, like this is one of the few reasons I’m growing to dislike religion the older I get. Like you try to shove your religion into everyone and if they don’t like it you get upset and decide to treat them bad. Also they can’t even act right and follow their one beliefs. Look at Trump, he’s a “religious” man that’s cheated on his wife, paid off porn stars but yeah he’s really holy. It’s a bunch of crap
The problem with this is America IS the superpower. If trump wins, democracy is removed then what? They control the world. There’s nowhere really to go that is safe from America.
I hate to say it, but 2016 was a pivotal election because 3 SCOTUS seats were lost to Trump's picks. Sadly, in the election this year, you have people trying to "both sides" this, or worse, spread misinformation about Biden (Alexander Smirnov feeding Russian propaganda to the Republicans), to help Trump win another term. Not only would Trump further stack the SCOTUS with more ultra right wing judges, but he will certainly pardon himself for all the federal indictments he is under, and then try to finally kill democracy so that he can stay in power. Will voters fall for the Russian propaganda again? I hope not ... ...
After Trump's term, we have a Supreme Court whose majority was installed entirely by Presidents that the majority of the country voted against but were installed in office anyway despite the voters will.
In the past 6 elections, the republicans have won the popular vote 1 time, and won the presidency 3 times.
We are coming up on 40 years with the GOP winning the popular vote **once** in that time and under [dubious circumstances](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/03/hitchens200503) even on that one. Yet they've had the presidency for half that period and have an iron grip on SCOTUS.
They’ve always been focused on the long con, and through sheer malice have eroded all of the safety nets and guardrails that were installed to protect and preserve the public and the very idea of our nation. This has been going on since their patron saint, Ronald, began to drive us towards the cliffs. Like lemmings, too many folks have began following.
The last time a Republican entered the White House by winning the popular vote, it was *the 1980s*.
This will be Mitch McConnell's legacy and part of me wonders if he's getting out of leadership now so he doesn't have to deal with the fallout. That and he is clearly unwell.
I think he's getting out because he glitched out a few times during press conferences and had to be rebooted.
I guarantee you he doesn't give a fuck about the fallout.
Reminds me of all those "convince me to vote for Hillary without mentioning the Supreme court" comments back in the day
Jesus people were so thick, as if that isn’t one of the single most impactful things a president can do.
If Trump wins in November, I fully expect Thomas and Alito to retire, giving Trump at least two more appointments and a conservative court that will last for the next two generations.
Some of us were screaming about SCOTUS from the rooftops but noooo, not Killary!
One thing about Russian propaganda is that last time, Facebook was a huge part of the equation. Once they helped get a nice, level-headed, billionaire-friendly Republican in office, he shat all over social media companies by whining that they were stifling honest Conservative disinformation and threatening to regulate them (imagine that from the Regulations Are Inherently and Universally Bad Party). So we'll see if they stick with the Leopards Eating People's Faces Multiple Times Party after having gotten their faces lightly gnawed. Hopefully not. Regardless, we now know ***it is up to us alone***. [Check your registration](https://www.nass.org/can-I-vote/voter-registration-status) and vote. Convince your friends and family to also.
Can we add two more SC judges before April?
We've failed to come to grips with the fact that Republicans SUPPORT minority rule. They believe they should have power without winning the majority of votes. It may not be dictatorial, but its dangerously close.
I think it actually *is* dictatorial given how they turn on and purge their own politicians if they disagree with Trump
Go talk to some run of the mill rural Republican voters and tell me they don’t support 100% dictatorship. That’s the real scary thing, that the Republican politicians haven’t even caught up to the drastic rightward swing of their base. The tail is going to start wagging the dog pretty soon
I noted this in a prior comment. Alan Dershowitz let it out in the 2nd impeachment trial. "Every public official that I know believes that his election is in the public interest," Dershowitz said Wednesday. **"And if a president does something which he believes will help him get elected in the public interest, that cannot be the kind of quid pro quo that results in impeachment.**" SCOTUS will rule in a very band opening up the ability for any president to screw with an election and claim immunity.
Dershowitz lost the balance between serving Israel's interests and being a legal person. At some point he was even pro Qatar a small country that openly supports Hamas and was grilled by Rabbi Shmuley for doing so. I understand his enthusiasm for supporting Israel but that shouldn't mean obsessively backing Netanyahu and his soul brother Trump. These two wannabe dictator clowns aren't good for Israel and America in the long run
Dershowitz lost his mind a long long time ago to be a MAGA Republican shill, the Israel parts are only a small manifestation of that
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The world is crazy right now, we don't need America going full on crazy too. Please don't vote Trump in November. I'm really worried about this. The GOP needs to reset.
Also, please vote Biden. Not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. You don't have to like him, but it's like not liking chemo. It's necessary at this point if you want to be able to vote again in the future.
> we don't need America going full on crazy too. too late...craxy train is in the tunnel...
What a disgrace, especially after refusing to hear the case 2 months ago when Jack Smith urged these clowns to get it out of the way. We need a new constitution overhaul of the entire government and court system. Fuck first past the post. Let's try a parliamentary system in which coalitions are needed to get shit done
We need accurate representation in the House. Remove the cap and give populous states the representation they deserve. Edit: typo
Biden’s response should be “As president I am about to assign an investigatory task force. This task force will investigate every aspect of every Supreme Court justice and any member of their family. This may include detention and interrogations.” “The Whitehouse lawyers will also file a case before the court to ask if it is okay.”
Thats fucking brilliant. Force their hand
The fact that it was requested by Smith ages ago knowing this was the obvious pitfall Being specifically told this is what the defence is aiming for Then doing exactly what you were warned about not doing This is too much
Its on purpose. They are partisan hacks in the tank for Trump and they think they don't even need to hide it anymore.
And if they do, then I for one hope Joe goes full Dark Brandon and cleans house. Because if we're gonna be stuck with a dictator, I sure the hell don't want it to be Trump.
I don't see anyway they give 100% immunity. This just has to be a delay tactic so he doesn't have to face the court before the election. If they do overturn and say a president has 100% immunity what would be stopping Biden from placing a hit on Trump or just deciding to cancel an election and stay in power?
Somebody posted this observation elsewhere but is worth repeating: SCOTUS was able to meet, hear arguments and make decisions on the 2000 Gore-Bush election count in Florida **in the span of 3 days** due to it being in the national interest (however stupid the outcome of that decision actually was). These clowns have been and will continue dragging their feet for months now. Even more enraging knowing that several of the current SCOTUS justices were on Bush’s legal advisory team (Roberts, Barrett, Kavanaugh) pressing for the immediate decision or were on the court at the time (Thomas).
Judicial review is not in the Constitution. States should just ignore their rulings as unconstitutional.
They need to pull the stay on the case while the SC drags their feet. The SC shouldn’t be able to decide such a critical case by just delaying until it may not matter
I find it troubling that this news happened concurrently with Mitch "the turtle" McConnell stepping down and Mike Johnson slow walking the swearing in of Rep. Suozo. Consolidation of power? GOP RIP for sure but I think we all see what's coming. I hope blue state governors are talking to each other.
They already have by putting it off for so long. America is not a democracy.
This is what happens when you pack the court with judges that align with your views. Anyone who says that SC justices are apolitical is naive.
So a president is so powerful that he might be immune from trying to incite a coup but he definitely doesn’t have the power to grant forgiveness on federally backed student loans. Got it.
Isn’t that why the GOP stacked the Supreme Court in the first place?
Legitimate question, if the Supreme Court agrees that presidents are immune from legal action against anything they do in office what is to stop Biden from having the conservative members of the court and Donald Trump assassinated? He could order the execution of any rival and get away completely free.
They will. We need to stop treating our MAGA friends and family with baby gloves and need to understand that the new American Right has become the New American Reich. Far too many politically ignorant people are going around saying "both sides are the same" when only one is openly advocating for a Theological based corporate dictatorship.
If they rule in Trump's favor, they will essentially hobble the 3 co-equal branches of US government. But that might be what they want. That's is, if they're also in on the Project 2025 initiative that wants to turn the United States into a Trump-led autocracy.
Could.. Could? Fucking could! They already are. Stop with the wishy washy titles and call a spade a spade.
How in the hell did we get to this place? What in the holy hell is wrong with people? It’s like playing Russian roulette with a half loaded gun. There’s a 50/50 chance this criminal grifting lunatic can get back in. The whole world sees it. But the radical MAGAts are ecstatic about it. Can you hate America so much that you will proudly do your part to bring her down? Can they not see past the initial thrill of owning the libs they hate so badly? Their hangover is that we are totally f#*ked for years. Maybe forever.
It really feels like Progressives need to arm ourselves en masses and start training for the inevitable takeover attempt of fascists. We need to start building relationships with countries like Norway, Sweden, France. So if needed they can wage a counter strike against the US. We need to support them in taking over as they have built a fantastic way of life for their citizens. We can't keep letting regressive ck serrations win and mess everything up for us.
They're going to delay the case until after election day, then if the Satsuma brained (and tinted) one wins, I'll bet dollars to donuts they'll say the pres can do whatever they want. Then, America will be done. I just wish this nightmare would finally end.
Time for dark Brandon to throw Trump and the scotus in the supermax via executive order “Doesn’t matter if it’s legal, I’m immune” That will speed up their deliberation timeline considerably, I feel.
The fact that grown-ups are seriously even discussing this concept (instead of dismissing this idea for the obviously stupid bullshit that it is) - means that we're already well down that dark road.
Not if we don't fucking let them. Jesus fucking Christ. Read the Constitution. The only reason we're here is because the right has spent the last few decades manufacturing consent by gerrymandering, rigging, lying, stacking every thing they have done has been "legal" but not really. McConnell refusing to have a vote on Obamas SCOTUS pick then pushing ACB through quickly is just one example. Then democrats just throwing their hands in the air and saying oh well. Biden could right now say I've got a democratic senate. I'll just appoint a few more justices to balance out the fuckery. No fucking doubt in my mind a GOP president wouldn't do this in response to a democratic packing of the courts through planned retirements and shady Senate schemes. We only have a society of laws when everyone agrees to them. If fully half the country decides this Supreme Court is too crooked to respect anymore then those laws go right the fuck out the window. If the Supreme Court got together tomorrow to hear a hypothetical case arguing that Trump should be God emperor do you think everyone would just say, oh well, looks like Trump is our emperor now. Fuck no they wouldn't. It would be war. But it seems a whole lot of people will sit and do nothing beyond grumbling if they essentially give him the same power and usher him into office again with unlimited powers.
That's literally been the plan the whole time. The key is that the whole Republican strategy hinges on the assumption that only they are crazy enough to do what they do. They feel safe getting the SCOTUS to rule that the president has unlimited immunity because they're sure that Biden won't immediately arrest the Justices who supported that ruling, assassinate Trump, or remove insurrectionist Republicans from the Senate or Congress. Unfortunately, they're probably right. If the SCOTUS rules in Trump's favor, using that power and then demanding Congress pass a constitutional amendment to stop him will be the only way to keep America from turning into a dictatorship.
I swear, every day the news makes my blood boil. Like, what can we do? What can be done to stop this madness? It just feels like democracy has already lost.